MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Wreckers

2025-07-07T03:54:01Z

TFEarthConquest:

"(neither the team, nor any of its members ever appeared in the US stories)" - Sandstorm and Broadside did appear for about one panel each in #36 and #41 respectively, and Sandstorm even got to talk to Blaster. It's true that they probably *shouldn't* have been there... --[[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 09:22, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

* Come to that, Springer, Inferno and Broadside all turned up in ''Generation 2''. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 03:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Where is Highbrow seen with the Wreckers on Varas Centralus? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 13:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

: Ok, took another look at the panel (bottom of their first page) and it's probably just Whirl. Granted it looks A LOT more like Highbrow's copter-design than it does Whirl's but I forgot to take into account Don's redesign, and since we don't see HB at any point later I think it's pretty clear Don just Highbrowed-up Whirl. I'll fix.
::Yeah, that's Whirl. The colorist Josh umm... Josh something, aka God Fire Convoy, already confirmed that in an Allspark post. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

== Inferno as a Wrecker? ==

Should Inferno not be counted as a Wrecker? After all, he wandered around with Sandstorm and Broadside in Firebug and CC&J, and was there for their last battle.
: By the time Inferno showed up with the remaining Wreckers, they called themselves the Survivors. He's not a Wrecker. It's a common mistake, though. The cover of Wreckers #1 actually included Inferno at the top until it was pointed out and he was replaced by Broadside. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Strange, cause he joined up with them for the attack on Galvatron, though, which was before they became the Survivors. Much more 'screen' time with them than Whirl got. Oh well. --[[User:Cradok|Cradok]] 16:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Per the intro text to "Survivors (Part 3)", he's a Wrecker. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 01:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::::And his bio in the 1990 Annual says in so many words that he is (or was) a Wrecker. I think it's a 'yes'. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 12:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
::::: Inferno states in Firebug that Xaaron wants no repeat of the Galvatron fiasco "from the last time YOU Wreckers came to earth". He is still part of the surveillance unit at the start of Time Wars with no indication this gives him Wrecker status. After Time Wars he becomes a survivor. The text in Survivors part 3 is ambiguous and could be taken different ways and a bio in the 1991 annual, considering it has no back up in fiction, could be considered a micro-continuity. Considering this section covers the UK Comics I don't see how Inferno can be included on the list.[[User:Mister Jazzz|Mister Jazz]] 12:23, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
:::::: I guess we should remove Scoop from the IDW line-up then, as he's never explicitly called a Wrecker either. He's just there with them. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] 12:28, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
::::::: I would agree with that! If we list everyone who works with them or fights with them we could include Xaaron and Ultra Magnus on the G1 list and that would be clearly wrong! [[User:Mister Jazzz|Mister Jazz]] 12:42, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
:::::::: I don't necessarily agree, but I'm just pointing out that this becomes a slippery slope. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] 12:53, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
:::: I know but then it would clear up some of the questions regarding Scoop... I suppose the difference is there is nothing in the fiction itself to say Scoop isn't a wrecker so it could be assumed he is whereas Inferno's lines in Firebug make it obvious that he is not. [[User:Mister Jazzz|Mister Jazz]] 13:00, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
::::: If Scoop were just hanging around with the Wreckers on [[Varas Centralus]] only so he can help them dig stuff for that specific mission, and isn't part of the group proper, I wouldn't think that when Optimus called them out of action there so they could defend Cybertron, Scoop would still come with them. At that point, if he's not a Wrecker, he's disobeying orders. Bluestreak didn't come with the rest of his Infiltration team to Cybertron, for example, so Scoop can't be one of his. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:12, 26 July 2012 (EDT)
:::::: I agree it is sensible to assume Scoop is a Wrecker and sometimes we have to rely on reasonalbe assumptions. I just think that we have it from Inferno's shiny metal lips that he is not a Wrecker and he should know! [[User:Mister Jazzz|Mister Jazz]] 13:24, 26 July 2012 (EDT)

==Plural?==
Shouldn't this be moved to "Wrecker"? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Naw, the plural is part of the team name. You wouldn't put "X-Men" at "X-Man," or "Avengers" at "Avenger," wouldja? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::I don't see how that's any different than [[Autobot]] and [[Decepticon]]. (Though, now that you mention it, we ''do'' use the plural for [[Avengers]], apparently.) Skimming [[:Category:Subgroups|this]] and its subcategories, I can only find [[Survivors|three]] [[Battlestars|other]] [[Special Teams|groups]] that are given a plural. I don't understand what sets those apart. Well, I suppose I could count [[Thirteen|Thirteen original Transformers]] in there too, but that actually DOES make sense, since singularizing it would require ridiculous grammatical backflips. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 21:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm finding it difficult to verbalize the difference, but the best real-world comparison I can come up with is that "Autobot" and "Decepticon" is like "Human," (which you wouldn't put at "humans") while "Wreckers" is liiiike.... hnn... uh... erm... "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals." You wouldn't put that at "Person for the Ethical Treatment of Animals." Does... does that make sense? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 22:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Honestly, no. I like the example, though! I think PETA is similar to "Thirteen original Transformers" - the singularization is just too awkward and unconnected to actual usage. But this wiki's policy is, as far as I can tell, to default to the singular except in extreme circumstances. "Wrecker" is grammatically identical to "Autobot" or "Aerialbot" or a million other faction/subgroup labels. Collectively, it's a plural, but a single member is a "Wrecker." And if you think we should keep the plural because the article is about the whole, not any single one, well, look at ANY of the other group-articles, and virtually ''none'' of them start out saying, "An '''Aerialbot''' is..." or "A '''Constructicon''' is..." They're ALL about collectives, but we label them as singulars because... well, that's apparently just how we do things. It threw me off when I first started editing, but it's the rule nonetheless. I actually wouldn't mind revisiting it, honestly, but I suspect it's too entrenched to ever undo. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:25, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

== Deceased ==

We have a listing for the Wreckers killed in the IDW continuity, but not the others. Do we want to add "(deceased)" to the other continuities or remove the IDW ones to make a more consistant look? --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 10:54, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

== Separate articles ==

It seems like a better way of presenting the information would be splitting out the different continuity families, like how we're not trying to shoehorn all of the Constructicon groups into one article. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:45, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
:I suppose what I'm trying to say is: Why aren't we splitting this up like we do to every other subgroup? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:47, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
::We don't split up every other subgroup. Check out [[Elite Guard]], [[Autobot Mini-Cassette]], [[Decepticon Mini-Cassette]], [[Spychanger]].... It doesn't help this page to split it up, and, frankly, I think I'd rather see the Constructicon articles (for example) consolidated. So many of them are, well, tiny and identical. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:04, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
:::That's mostly an artifact from the earliest days of the wiki - we didn't really know what we were doing and so we made a billion different Constructicon articles. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 19:22, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
::::I think having to prune the intro down to a one-size-fits-all paragraph would be detrimental and the resulting article would be too big and unfocused. It's like trying to combine the Optimus Primes under one article, with just "heroic Autobot leader, etc." as the intro. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:23, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

==Prime Wreckers==
Is it necessary to give them there own articles?
:Yes. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 11:24, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

== Leaders ==

So apparently there are two former leaders of the Wreckers other than Impactor. But both the Wreckers and Impactor articles state that Impactor was the first leader, and Springer was the leader after Impactor was imprisoned. So, uh. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:06, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
:I rewrote it a bit to try and make it clearer --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 05:15, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
::This is just speculation of course, but perhaps Impactor WAS the founder and original member, but Crest and Hyperion were brought in by outside sources (like Prowl) to "course-correct" them. Impactor let them take the lead, knowing they'd wash out fast and he'd be in charge again. Well, it's an easy retcon-in-waiting, in whatever case! --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] 10:01, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
:::It seems more that people on the wiki just got a little sloppy and didn't account for the fact that in IDW there have been a ''lot'' more ill-fated Wreckers lineups than most continuities. We didn't really know about Hyperion and Crest until the bonus material for Last Stand of the Wreckers started coming out.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 10:06, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
::::Yeah I dug out LStoW #2 and there's no mention of him being the ''first'' leader at all. Most likely he signed up, served under Hyperion as seen here and went on to become leader afterwards. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 10:12, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
:::::Heh, y'know what, you're right. For some reason I could have sworn that Impactor was mentioned as the "founding member" of the Wreckers in either Bullets, Out of Bullets, or Zero Point, but I can't seem to find it. So I was probably thinking of the articles. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] 12:09, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

== Hammer? ==

Does anyone else notice that the nose and forehead of the wrecker insignia take the shape of a hammer?
: Also, did anyone notice that the insignia is blue? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:14, 14 September 2012 (EDT)

== Should Smashdown get a mention? ==

We don't know much about them, but one of the few definite facts we do have is that they're a Wrecker in at least one continuity. --[[User:Wheelbug|Wheelbug]] ([[User talk:Wheelbug|talk]]) 10:50, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

== Wreck 'n Doom Collection ==

I know the Wreck 'n Rule collection was included because it focused primarily on the team, but could a mini section for the Wreck 'n Doom Collection also be included? It's basically a sequel to the Wreck 'n Rule Collection. --[[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 20:53, 6 July 2025 (PST)

Talk:Maccadam

2025-03-02T19:32:19Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime */

Given that the Ask Vector Prime and Another Light all but state that Maccadam = mustachioed bartender = Alchemist, does anyone think it'd be worth merging the bartender onto Maccadam's page? I don't believe it's ever been established that the bartender ''isn't'' Maccadam, just that it wasn't stated until now that he was. (No merging Alchemist and Maccadam, though, since it seems likely that in some continuities - IDW (and probably Aligned), for example - they'd be separate.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:45, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:I was honestly never ''really'' into the idea of Maccadam even having his own article, given he only exists as a notes section. I've always kinda felt like Maccadam, the bartenders, and the Old Oil House, could just be one article. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:55, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::His only existing as a notes section is mostly because nobody wants to write up things from Retribution, which clearly establishes him as A Dude That Exists. I could see the benefit in merging Maccadam and the bartenders, but I think the Old Oil House's article is a little too long for that to work. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::I think mustache dude should be merged here and the article retained, since now Maccadam actually now has "appearances"; the other bartenders get thrown to the bar's article. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 14:03, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:::Or that, I guess. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)

== Thirteen ==

Since Maccadam appears in "[[Out of the One, Many]]" as one of the Thirteen, don't you think we should merge [[Alchemist Prime]] with Maccadam? At this point, it's kinda clear that he's one of the Thirteen, Alchemist or not. [[User:Transfan 1992|Transfan 1992]] ([[User talk:Transfan 1992|talk]]) 20:57, 13 April 2016 (EDT)
:...No? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:20, 13 April 2016 (EDT)

Since in CyberVerse Maccadam is Alchemist Prime in CyberVerse should we merge the pages together? [[User:LordGalvatronYT|LordGalvatronYT]] ([[User talk:LordGalvatronYT|talk]]) 15:02, 4 February 2024 (EST)
:Again, no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:52, 4 February 2024 (EST)

==Main Image==

I propose we use Maccadam’s Cyberverse appearance for his main image since up until this point, his appearance has been a mystery. [[User: SeanTF1967|SeanTF1967]] ([[User talk:SeanTF1967|talk]])
: I'd rather not, since the majority of his appearances are based off mustache guy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]])
:: I think there's a case to be made if Mac ends up being a much bigger player in Cyberverse than he has so far, but for now, let's stick with mustache guy since he's currently the primary version. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:03, 6 November 2018 (EST)
::: And of course if Cyberverse Maccadam winds up confirmed as Alchemist Prime, the can of worms just gets bigger... - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 01:07, 7 November 2018 (EST)
:::: If Cyberverse Maccadam winds up being revealed as Alchemist, it seems like the sanest thing to do would to "Onyx Prime" the section, by porting over his Cyberverse appearances onto Alchemist's page while leaving a brief note explaining how Alchemist is explicitly Maccadam in this continuity... but this is all getting rather hypothetical. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 07:11, 7 November 2018 (EST)

== Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime ==

Should we add the Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime figure to the page? Despite not explicitly called Maccadam, its appearance is taken from various Maccadam designs (mainly the Mustache Guy). [[User:TFearthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 11:30, 2 March 2025 (PST)

Talk:Maccadam

2025-03-02T19:32:04Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime */

Given that the Ask Vector Prime and Another Light all but state that Maccadam = mustachioed bartender = Alchemist, does anyone think it'd be worth merging the bartender onto Maccadam's page? I don't believe it's ever been established that the bartender ''isn't'' Maccadam, just that it wasn't stated until now that he was. (No merging Alchemist and Maccadam, though, since it seems likely that in some continuities - IDW (and probably Aligned), for example - they'd be separate.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:45, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:I was honestly never ''really'' into the idea of Maccadam even having his own article, given he only exists as a notes section. I've always kinda felt like Maccadam, the bartenders, and the Old Oil House, could just be one article. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:55, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::His only existing as a notes section is mostly because nobody wants to write up things from Retribution, which clearly establishes him as A Dude That Exists. I could see the benefit in merging Maccadam and the bartenders, but I think the Old Oil House's article is a little too long for that to work. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::I think mustache dude should be merged here and the article retained, since now Maccadam actually now has "appearances"; the other bartenders get thrown to the bar's article. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 14:03, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:::Or that, I guess. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)

== Thirteen ==

Since Maccadam appears in "[[Out of the One, Many]]" as one of the Thirteen, don't you think we should merge [[Alchemist Prime]] with Maccadam? At this point, it's kinda clear that he's one of the Thirteen, Alchemist or not. [[User:Transfan 1992|Transfan 1992]] ([[User talk:Transfan 1992|talk]]) 20:57, 13 April 2016 (EDT)
:...No? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:20, 13 April 2016 (EDT)

Since in CyberVerse Maccadam is Alchemist Prime in CyberVerse should we merge the pages together? [[User:LordGalvatronYT|LordGalvatronYT]] ([[User talk:LordGalvatronYT|talk]]) 15:02, 4 February 2024 (EST)
:Again, no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:52, 4 February 2024 (EST)

==Main Image==

I propose we use Maccadam’s Cyberverse appearance for his main image since up until this point, his appearance has been a mystery. [[User: SeanTF1967|SeanTF1967]] ([[User talk:SeanTF1967|talk]])
: I'd rather not, since the majority of his appearances are based off mustache guy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]])
:: I think there's a case to be made if Mac ends up being a much bigger player in Cyberverse than he has so far, but for now, let's stick with mustache guy since he's currently the primary version. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:03, 6 November 2018 (EST)
::: And of course if Cyberverse Maccadam winds up confirmed as Alchemist Prime, the can of worms just gets bigger... - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 01:07, 7 November 2018 (EST)
:::: If Cyberverse Maccadam winds up being revealed as Alchemist, it seems like the sanest thing to do would to "Onyx Prime" the section, by porting over his Cyberverse appearances onto Alchemist's page while leaving a brief note explaining how Alchemist is explicitly Maccadam in this continuity... but this is all getting rather hypothetical. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 07:11, 7 November 2018 (EST)

== Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime ==

Should we add the Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime figure to the page? Despite not explicitly called Maccadam, its appearance is taken from various Maccadam designs (namely the Mustache Guy). [[User:TFearthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 11:30, 2 March 2025 (PST)

Talk:Maccadam

2025-03-02T19:30:50Z

TFEarthConquest:

Given that the Ask Vector Prime and Another Light all but state that Maccadam = mustachioed bartender = Alchemist, does anyone think it'd be worth merging the bartender onto Maccadam's page? I don't believe it's ever been established that the bartender ''isn't'' Maccadam, just that it wasn't stated until now that he was. (No merging Alchemist and Maccadam, though, since it seems likely that in some continuities - IDW (and probably Aligned), for example - they'd be separate.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:45, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:I was honestly never ''really'' into the idea of Maccadam even having his own article, given he only exists as a notes section. I've always kinda felt like Maccadam, the bartenders, and the Old Oil House, could just be one article. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:55, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::His only existing as a notes section is mostly because nobody wants to write up things from Retribution, which clearly establishes him as A Dude That Exists. I could see the benefit in merging Maccadam and the bartenders, but I think the Old Oil House's article is a little too long for that to work. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)
::I think mustache dude should be merged here and the article retained, since now Maccadam actually now has "appearances"; the other bartenders get thrown to the bar's article. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 14:03, 4 March 2016 (EST)
:::Or that, I guess. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:04, 4 March 2016 (EST)

== Thirteen ==

Since Maccadam appears in "[[Out of the One, Many]]" as one of the Thirteen, don't you think we should merge [[Alchemist Prime]] with Maccadam? At this point, it's kinda clear that he's one of the Thirteen, Alchemist or not. [[User:Transfan 1992|Transfan 1992]] ([[User talk:Transfan 1992|talk]]) 20:57, 13 April 2016 (EDT)
:...No? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:20, 13 April 2016 (EDT)

Since in CyberVerse Maccadam is Alchemist Prime in CyberVerse should we merge the pages together? [[User:LordGalvatronYT|LordGalvatronYT]] ([[User talk:LordGalvatronYT|talk]]) 15:02, 4 February 2024 (EST)
:Again, no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:52, 4 February 2024 (EST)

==Main Image==

I propose we use Maccadam’s Cyberverse appearance for his main image since up until this point, his appearance has been a mystery. [[User: SeanTF1967|SeanTF1967]] ([[User talk:SeanTF1967|talk]])
: I'd rather not, since the majority of his appearances are based off mustache guy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]])
:: I think there's a case to be made if Mac ends up being a much bigger player in Cyberverse than he has so far, but for now, let's stick with mustache guy since he's currently the primary version. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:03, 6 November 2018 (EST)
::: And of course if Cyberverse Maccadam winds up confirmed as Alchemist Prime, the can of worms just gets bigger... - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 01:07, 7 November 2018 (EST)
:::: If Cyberverse Maccadam winds up being revealed as Alchemist, it seems like the sanest thing to do would to "Onyx Prime" the section, by porting over his Cyberverse appearances onto Alchemist's page while leaving a brief note explaining how Alchemist is explicitly Maccadam in this continuity... but this is all getting rather hypothetical. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 07:11, 7 November 2018 (EST)

== Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime ==

Should we add the Age of the Primes Alchemist Prime figure to the page? Despite not explicitly called Maccadam, its appearance is taken from various Maccadam designs (namely the Marvel Comics one). [[User:TFearthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 11:30, 2 March 2025 (PST)

Spinister (G1)

2025-01-14T15:59:35Z

TFEarthConquest: Spinister is based on his Marvel appearance. https://tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/profiles/Decepticon/spinister.jpg

{{factions||decepticon|mayhem}}
{{disambig3|Spinister}}
:''Spinister is a [[Decepticon]] [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Spinister-boxart.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm terribly mysterious and I have 300 pounds of canned meat strapped to my right arm.]]
'''Spinister''' is mysterious... ''terribly'' mysterious. A closed book to the Decepticons, Spinister is a dark menace to his Autobot enemies. Often, the first warning of his approach is the gentle note of a detonating [[fusion bomb]] or the delightful hiss of metal boiling away under an assault of charged particles from his [[Particle beam cannon|beam cannon]]. How he is so terribly sneaky is unclear, but rumor has it that he has developed a cloaking device that he has kept a secret from his fellow 'Cons. Quiet and mysterious, that's how he likes to be, and that's how he intends to stay. One must wonder how much even his binary-bonded [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] companions [[Singe]] and [[Hairsplitter]] know about him.

This grim air warrior seems far more independent of mind than the common Decepticon, though he doesn't go in for the outright mutiny for which [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] is noted. When he spots unrecognized potential in the Decepticon ranks, however, he may well bring the would-be warrior under his tutelage without the knowledge or permission of his superior officers. Actually speaking his mind would prevent the whole mysterious, shadow-warrior thing from working, after all.<ref>''[[The Transformers Universe]]'' profile for Spinister, Singe, and Hairsplitter profile in [[Dark Creation|''The Transformers'' #65]]</ref>

Then again, the guy might just be a paranoid dumbass who'd shoot a torch just because it "looked at him funny." He's actually a bit of a savant when it comes to re-wiring things, though.

Also, his name is cooler than [[Slayride]] and [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] combined.

==Fiction==
===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Marvel ''The Transformers'' comics====
{{noteukonly}}
[[File:HuntingParty-Mayhem Attack Squad small.JPG|upright=1.4|thumb|Dammit, why does someone always have to ruin a perfectly good group shot with a wussy thought bubble??]]
''Spinister was recruited into the new [[Mayhem Attack Squad]] by [[Snarler]], and placed in charge of training and grading other new recruits to the squad. During a training exercise, a fresh-new warrior named [[Needlenose (G1)|Needlenose]] went AWOL in the middle of a battle. Spinister went after him, knowing the desertion was punishable by death in the Decepticon Army. He saw promise in the young soldier, though, and so instead faked having difficulty against an Autobot drone he was fighting. Spinister hoped that seeing him in danger would force Needlenose to act, and he was right. Needlenose came back and fought off the drone to "save" Spinister. Because of this, Spinister ignored his temporary loss of courage in the official report, and nominated Needlenose for full membership in the Mayhems, and their mission to hunt down the traitors [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] and [[Catilla (G1)|Catilla]].'' {{storylink|The Hunting Party (Marvel)|The Hunting Party}}

''Arriving on Earth, the Mayhems confronted Carnivac separately from his new Autobot comrades in the [[Survivors]], and ran him to ground.'' {{storylink|Way of the Warrior}} ''Carnivac managed to escape them when the National Guard arrived to interfere. The head of the human military unit ordered his soldiers to "blow away" the Decepticons, an order that Spinister told him would be his last. The humans were slaughtered in short order, and Spinister's group managed to track down Carnivac again with little fuss.''{{storylink|Survival Run}} ''Seeing Carnivac's newfound care for fleshlings, Spinister opened fire into a crowd, committing Carnivac to taking the fire himself in order to protect the humans. Stunned by the gunfire, Carnivac lay wounded as Spinister transformed and was about to pass sentence on him. His fellow traitor Catilla leapt out from nowhere, however, spoiling Spinister's aim. Bludgeon managed to impale the new arrival with his [[sword]], but the Mayhems were then driven off by the Survivors before they could finish Carnivac off as well.'' {{storylink|A Savage Place!}}

[[File:Deadly Obsession Needlenose Spinister.jpg|left|upright=0.5|thumb]]
Spinister joined Needlenose, [[Ruckus (G1)|Ruckus]], and [[Windsweeper]] in serving their commander, [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]]. They investigated why Autobots were patrolling a sector of space, taking a group of Autobots as prisoner on the planet [[Pz-Zazz]]. {{storylink|Bird of Prey!}} The hostages revealed the search for the [[Matrix of Leadership|Creation Matrix]], inflaming Thunderwing's obsession to obtain the artifact. The Mayhem Attack Squad were soon taken to [[Cheyne]], where Spinister and Ruckus took down [[Dogfight (G1)|Dogfight]] for Thunderwing. As the Autobot proved to be of little use, the Decepticons left. {{Storylink|Kings of the Wild Frontier.}} They next went to [[Pequod]], and Thunderwing sent Spinister, who was beginning to have doubts about the sanity of his leader, and Needlenose to deal with the Autobot [[Pretender]]s at the planet while their leader mentally connected with the [[Klud]] to discern the Matrix's location. Once he did, he recalled his troops and left. {{Storylink|Deadly Obsession}} The Matrix was located on the moon [[VsQs]], where Thunderwing led his forces in battle against the Autobots. He abandoned Windsweeper to his fate when the [[Matrixspawn]] creature attacked, being more focused on his prize than a fellow Decepticon. When their leader ran off chasing the creature, Spinister held back his fellow Mayhems, telling them it was their duty to look after the injured Windsweeper, and let Thunderwing deal with his own business. {{Storylink|Dark Creation}}

[[File:AllFallDown-Spinister.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|Few people get along with their bosses.]]
After Thunderwing captured the Matrix and arranged for his team to infiltrate the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] aboard a stolen shuttle, he quickly found the Matrix's own corrupted persona waxing control over his own mind. Spinister tried to warn him of the madness taking over, only to have Thunderwing fire on his own troop. The shock of having shot one of his loyal soldiers drove home the point for Thunderwing, but it was too late, and the Matrix completely overtook his thoughts. After the Autobots managed to drive Thunderwing out of the ship and into the vacuum of space, Spinister and the Mayhems gave up without a fight, wanting no more violence that day. {{storylink|All Fall Down}}

=====Trigger-Happy!=====
Spinister, [[Needlenose (G1)|Needlenose]], and [[Windsweeper]] accompanied [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] and [[Ruckus (G1)|Ruckus]] in delivering battle plans to [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]], the former three acting as the group's rear guard. The Autobots learned of the delivery and planned to ambush them, but their mission was botched by [[Backstreet (G1)|Backstreet]], who gave away his faction's presence prematurely. Spinister and the other Decepticons were provoked into starting a firefight that endangered the inhabitants of nearby [[Rivers' Town]]. Panicked over his mistake, Backstreet wound up going on the run from his fellow Autobots. Learning of the situation, Megatron had his troops track down the fugitive in the hopes of recruiting him to their faction. Spinister found the runaway squatting in an abandoned amusement park, and reported so to his leader. But though Megatron ordered him not to engage Backstreet, Spinister found the temptation of roughing up the isolated Autobot too strong to resist. He and [[Scoop (G1)#Trigger-Happy!|Scoop]], the first Decepticon to converge on his position, attacked Backstreet together. On his arrival, Megatron was enraged by his soldiers' "show of initiative," and violently saw them off before they could do any lasting damage. Ultimately, Megatron's plan failed, and Backstreet returned to the Autobots. {{storylink|Trigger-Happy!}}

=====Earthforce=====
{{earthforcefiction}}
[[File:Where wolf death small.JPG|left|thumb|Entered the No-Spinister Zone.]]
While Carnivac was still seeking revenge for Catilla's murder, Spinister and the others set up an island base on Earth while preparing for their next strike. The cowardly Needlenose got on everyone's nerves, though, when the waiting weighed on his circuits enough to compel him to stage a mock emergency drill and test the Mayhems' response time, just in case Carnivac came looking for him. Spinister gave Needlenose a stern rebuke after that, warning him that the next incident would cost him his life. As it turned out, Carnivac HAD infiltrated the base during the commotion, and Needlenose's next round of genuine emergency calls were left unheeded. {{storylink|Cry Wolf!}} The wolf's next strike on Bludgeon did not go as quietly, and he drew the attention of the rest of the base. Instead of risking himself in close-quarters combat, Carnivac's forte, Spinister wisely chose to blast the traitor from a distance, apparently destroying him. {{storylink|Wolf in the Fold!}} The Mayhems were then forced to defend themselves against the combined might of the Survivors and [[Earthforce]], who had come to rescue Carnivac from his insane mission of vengeance. While Bludgeon and the others charged head first into battle, Spinister saw no gain in a warrior's suicide, and attempted to slip away. Unfortunately for him, only Carnivac's shell had been destroyed earlier, and the robot within had survived to take his vengeance on the Mayhems, shooting Spinister, crushing Snarler and then assisting the Earthforce in capturing the remaining Decepticons. {{storylink|Where Wolf?}}

====''Transformers Comic-Magazin''====
Spinister was present when Megatron made peaceful gestures to Humanity in [[New York City]] and the Decepticons gave a "statue" of [[Snaptrap (G1)|Snaptrap]] as a gift to the city. Unsurprisingly, once humanity was off-guard the Decepticons struck, and the Autobots barely stopped them. {{storylink|Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 4#Transformers in Action: The Troy Principle|The Troy Principle}} Those events were recorded on a videotape that was later found and watched by Autobots on Cybertron after a [[City of Fear!|nuclear disaster]] in [[Kalis]]. {{storylink|Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 21|In Memory of Earth}}

Spinister and a group of Decepticons broke into a [[Nevada Alpha|nuclear arms cache]] in order to acquire the armaments within. During the siege, the inhabitants were able to send a distress signal to the Autobots, alerting them to their presence. They sent a large squad of assorted of Autobots to station, forcing the Decepticons into a retreat. Fortunately for them, they were able to make off with three [[Nuclear weapon|nuclear missiles]] in the chaos. {{storylink|Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 8|Save Nevada Alpha}}

The characteristics of Spinister and the other "Small Targetmaster Decepticons" were reviewed by [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] in a simulation watched by [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]].{{storylink|Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 15|Memories of Bumblebee}}

====''Classics''====
{{noteclassics}}
[[File:Invasion-Spinister.jpg|thumb|upright=0.95|I'm very important in this story!]]
Spinister fell in with [[Overlord (G1)|Gigatron]]'s Decepticon forces on Earth. This was a very fortunate decision, as evil Autobots from [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|another dimension]] invaded, and as a result everything not on Earth in Spinister's universe ceased to exist. {{storylink|Invasion (issue)|Invasion}}

Spinister survived the destruction of his universe and was last seen in the negative polarity universe with a small band of evil Decepticon survivors, back under [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]]'s command. {{storylink|The Future Buried...}}

====''Regeneration One''====
{{NoteRG1}}
[[File:Neo-decepticons counterpoint.jpg|thumb|left|I AM SPINISTER! BEWARE, I LIVE!]]
Spinister was present when [[Soundwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Soundwave]] was recruiting for the "Neo-Decepticon" insurgency at [[Fort Scyk]]. He later participated in the attack on the [[Kalis]] [[Baird Beaming Transmitter]] that led to the destruction of the [[Last Autobot]]. {{storylink|Counterpoint}}

Soundwave was off-planet when the resurrected [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] returned to Cybertron with a [[Gene Key]] capable of turning Autobots into Decepticons. The former Headmaster arrived at Fort Scyk and commanded the assembled troops to follow him, executing [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]] as an example of the price of questioning his orders. Spinister filed out with the rest, but not before he had got a message out to Soundwave. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part Three}} He was next seen with Needlenose alongside Scorponok at the [[Sonic Canyons]], preparing to make his Gene Key's effects permanent, when [[Grimlock (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Grimlock]] and the Dinobots attacked. When Grimlock's mole [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]] neutralised the Gene Key's effects on the Autobots, turning the odds against Scorponok, Spinister and Needlenose chose the better part of valour, transformed to their aerial modes and fled. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part Five}}

Later, Spinister and Needlenose convinced a few agitated Cybertronians to lob a grenade at [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Hot Rod]] as he was giving a speech at the [[Eugenesis Plaza]]. {{storylink|Destiny, Part One}} Spinister then monitored as [[Fang]] instigated a riot between more agitated Cybertronians and the [[Wreckers]] on [[Auto-artery RG1|Auto-artery RG1 (North)]] as part of Soundwave's plan to sow disquiet and blind Cybertron to [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]]'s impending attack. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Two}}

===Ladybird Books continuity===
{{voiceactor|[[Peter Marinker]] (English)}}
After the Decepticons kidnapped [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]], they demanded [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] turn himself over in exchange. Spinister acted as aerial spotter for the Decepticons, tracking Prime's route to the exchange point. Unfortunately for the Decepticons, a covered pass allowed Optimus to sneak [[Fizzle]] and [[Hosehead (G1)|Hosehead]] into the area inside his trailer as back-up. {{storylink|Autobot Hostage}}

===Dreamwave ''Armada'' comic===
[[File:WorldsCollide3 Spinister1.jpg|thumb|WE'RE GONNA GET SENT TO THE BAD PLACE!]]
In [[Primax 703.09 Gamma|one of many alternate realities]], Spinister was one of the few survivors of [[Unicron]]'s attack on that universe's [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], and had become little more than a gibbering half-insane emotional wreck as a result. When [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] was accidentally transported into this reality, Spinister told him about Unicron and what he did. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 1 of 4}} Optimus tried to get some answers out of him over how they could potentially defeat Unicron, but Spinister would only babble on that all those who crossed Unicron's path were already doomed. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 2 of 4}} When Unicron returned soon after Prime's arrival, Spinister welcomed his oblivion with open arms. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 3 of 4}} Unicron possessed his frame, and used it to converse with Optimus, demanding an explanation for the dimensional interloper's presence. Once this exchange came to an end, Spinister was drawn into the Chaos Bringer's open maw and consumed. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 4 of 4}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Stormbringer issue 4|''Stormbringer'' #4]]}}
[[File:SpotlightBlaster Spinister.jpg|thumb|left|How exactly am I flying?]]
Spinister was [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|constructed cold]]. {{storylink|Remain in Light 4 of 5: Arm the Lonely|Arm the Lonely}} Back before the war, Spinister appeared in the crowd cheering [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron's]] first pit fight. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 2|Megatron Origin #2}} It is unknown whether he joined the Decepticons at their inception or became part of the movement later on after the conquest of [[Kaon (polity)|Kaon]]. Much later, Spinister was working under [[Razorclaw (G1)|Razorclaw]] on Cybertron, shortly after the Battle of [[Thunderhead Pass]]. He was part of the last major push for territory on the planet before it became uninhabitable. {{storylink|Spotlight: Blaster}} Centuries later, Spinister still served with the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacon]] leader as part of the crew aboard the starship ''[[Thanatos]]''. He followed [[Divebomb (G1)|Divebomb]] and the other flying Decepticons into battle with Thunderwing on Cybertron. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 4|Stormbringer #4}}

At some point, Spinister joined up with [[Scavengers (G1)|a squad of loose Decepticons]] led by [[Krok (G1)|Krok]] and annoyed them with his paranoid, triggerhappy nature {{storylink|Rules of Disengagement (issue)|Rules of Disengagement}} though an erroneous report placed Spinister among the Decepticons imprisoned on Cybertron after the war with [[D-Void]]. {{storylink|The Autonomy Lesson (issue)|The Autonomy Lesson}}

[[File:MTMTE8 MisfireSpinister.jpg|thumb|One... two... hang on, guys, I've got this one... ''thuh-ree...'']]
Not long after they all received [[Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime|a call from Cybertron to return]], the Scavengers were on [[Clemency]], scavenging. During this time, they ran into a supposedly dead K-Class Decepticon called [[Fulcrum]] and Spinister removed his explosive charge in fear of the Decepticon blowing himself up while they were scavenging him. {{storylink|Scavengers (Part 2): Who's Afraid of the DJD?|Who's Afraid of the DJD?}} Misfire described him to Fulcrum, after the bot revealed himself to be actually alive, as the dumbest being in the universe. Later, he wanted to shoot a fire for giving him weird looks (in fairness they were using a still-living Autobot as a fireplace) and then shot a torch because it was glowing at him, much to Fulcrum's dismay. They were later contacted by the [[Decepticon Justice Division]], who were looking to torture and kill one of them for crimes against the Decepticons. Confused since there were only six of them and the Division mentioned seven bots present, they looked around and discovered a stasis-locked [[Grimlock (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Grimlock]]. {{storylink|Rules of Disengagement (issue)|Rules of Disengagement}}

The Scavengers decided to stay and fight the D.J.D. by unleashing Grimlock from his pod when the D.J.D. got close. As the D.J.D. were arriving, they revealed their real target had been Fulcrum, but it was already too late. Krok released Grimlock and the fight began. During the battle, Spinister assisted Crankcase in fighting [[Helex (G1)|Helex]]. After a while, Fulcrum attempted to blow all of the D.J.D. members up with his bomb mode by jumping off the Worldsweeper. As Spinister (probably) expected, the Decepticon harmlessly crashed into the ground and made a soft explosion. The D.J.D. left in any case for [[Overlord (G1)|another target]] and the leader, [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]], announced the Scavengers and Grimlock were all now on [[The List]]. Spinister and the others recovered Fulcrum and a damaged Krok. Fulcrum then revealed to them that the D.J.D. had been after him for a crime he had committed during the war for fleeing from a fight. They set off afterwards for Cybertron with a plan to use Grimlock, who was revealed to be almost brain-dead, as a bargaining chip if they ever arrived on the planet. Before they left, they scavenged parts from [[Flywheels]], who had been killed during the fight. {{storylink|Scavengers (Part 2): Who's Afraid of the DJD?|Who's Afraid of the DJD?}}

When Misfire managed to get himself incarcerated in the [[Galactic Council]]'s death row on the planet [[Constancy]], the rest of the Scavengers hatched a plan to rescue him, but Spinister, Krok and Crankcase were incapacitated by [[Solomus|Tyrest]]'s [[universal killswitch]] at a crucial moment. {{storylink|Remain in Light 4 of 5: Arm the Lonely|Arm the Lonely}} After [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] and [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] used half the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] to neutralise the killswitch, Spinister was seen to recover. {{storylink|Remain in Light 5 of 5: This Calamitous Life|This Calamitous Life}}

[[File:Scavengers IRL.jpg|thumb|upright=1.7|left|YOU! ARE! A! TOY!]]
Spinister and the Scavengers would have many more misadventures, including—amongst other things—conjugating verbs, using [[holomatter]] avatars to blend in with the natives on [[Magisteria VI]] and somehow getting turned into [[toy]]s. To let off steam, they amused themselves by vandalising [[Autopedia]] and playing "[[Cybertronian games#Shoot Shoot Bang Bang|Shoot Shoot Bang Bang]]". It was shortly after one such game that Spinister alerted the others that the giant TV was talking again and it said its name was [[Demus]], an associate of Krok's through a [[Militant Monoform Movement|Triple-M]] subgroup on [[The Big Conversation]], who offered them the opportunity to make some easy [[Shanix]] at his scrapyard on [[Tebris VII]]. After arriving on the planet and meeting with him, Spinister was [[mode lock]]ed in [[robot mode]], as Demus had a heightened phobia of [[transformation]].

Demus revealed that he wanted to offer the Scavengers half a billion Shanix ''each'' in exchange for Grimlock. When Misfire objected, it was put to the vote in a rare display of Decepticon democracy and Spinister elected to sell him along with Krok and Crankcase, carrying it by three votes to two. However, they wouldn't get the chance to make the deal as Demus was then summarily executed by the Duly Appointed Enforcer of the [[Tyrest Accord]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]]. {{storylink|Some Of My Best Friends Are Autobots}}

[[File:Spinister animals.jpg|thumb]]
Max put them all under arrest for trafficking with a known offender but the Scavengers were able to distract him and hide in Demus's warehouse full of "[[Roboid]]" toys. After learning the true scope of Demus's crimes and that the Roboids were actually lobotomised [[Transformer]]s, stuck in [[beast mode]], to be sold to the organics of the galaxy as "torture dolls", they were able to throw him off their trail by alerting him to the presence of Grimlock on the ''Weak Anthropic Principle'', but then found that they couldn't leave their comrade behind and rode to his rescue on six unboxed [[Equinoid]]s. During the subsequent confrontation with Fortress Maximus, Spinister successfully mastered using a triple negative in a sentence, leading the other Scavengers to all pitch in, using their own unique talents to outwit the Duly Appointed Enforcer and escape with Grimlock by convincing him that the Roboids' lives were in danger—in reality, Spinister had discovered a way to reverse their "[[domestication]]" and left behind a note explaining how to do it. From then on, the Scavengers vowed to adopt Krok's new plan: to find and help all the other Decepticons out there who had been damaged by the war... after one more game of "Shoot Shoot Bang Bang". {{storylink|Animals}}

Some time later aboard the ''Weak Anthropic Principle'', the Scavengers watched a video that was being broadcast to the galaxy at large of ''[[Lost Light]]'' crewmembers apparently counting down the time to their deaths, which even they found a bit dark. {{storylink|The Dying of the Light: (1) How Bright Their Frail Deeds|How Bright Their Frail Deeds}}

[[File:NothingWillEverBeTheSameAgain-maskedcrusaders.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7]]
The Scavengers later visited [[Earth]] so that Crankcase could meet his online friend "[[CONS4EVA]]." Misfire and Spinister found themselves chasing Grimlock across [[New Mexico]]. Disguising themselves as [[M.A.S.K.]] agents, the two undercover Decepticons pursued their quarry to [[Amarillo]], [[Texas]], where they joined forces with [[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]] desk jockey [[MP3]]. The trio followed Grimlock to [[Arlington]] before MP3's "[[Action Van]]" broke down; when Misfire and Spinister revealed the faces of their [[holomatter]] avatars, Misfire's poorly-constructed holomatter face caused MP3 to pass out. Believing that they'd killed him, they buried MP3 and continued their chase. But after watching an EMT resuscitate an injured woman, they realized that they ''hadn't'' killed MP3, so Spinister hurried back to dig up their human friend while Misfire followed Grimlock. An apologetic Spinister brought MP3 back to their ship, where they discovered that Crankcase's Decepticon friend was really a religiously inclined [[Dire Wraith]] in disguise. Having gathered three different species, the Wraith enacted the mystical ritual known as the "[[Crossover]]," which opened a tiny interdimensional portal. MP3, hoping to go on more space adventures with the Scavengers, tendered his resignation through the portal... only to discover that the Scavengers had left without him. {{storylink|Nothing Will Ever Be the Same Again!}}

The Scavengers next traveled to [[Frayus]], searching for some [[ununtrium]] they could sell. Disappointed at finding none of the rare element (and therefore no fiendish death traps to avoid), Spinister and the others prepared to leave only to find themselves in the middle of a struggle between the [[Galactic Council]], the [[Black Block Consortia]], and the Decepticons of [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]. Seeking an exit, they found their tele-portal back up to the W.A.P. in orbit was missing. Fortunately, another exit provided itself. {{storylink|The Plotters' Club (Part 3): Journey's End|Journey's End}}

[[File:TheTiesThatBind SpinisterCheckUp.jpg|upright=1.9|thumb|Spin doctor.]]
This exit brought them to [[Troja Major]], where the Curator [[Agonizer]] offered to pay the Scavengers a large sum of money for the retrieval of the [[Epistemus|Magnificence]], which had fallen into the hands of the former Autobot [[Flame (Marvel)|Flame]]. After agreeing to take the job, Spinister and the others were transported to the planet [[Confluence]], where they located Flame's Worldsweeper just before being attacked by a horde of [[Treecon|wooden robots]]. While Grimlock swiftly dealt with them, the Scavengers were then accosted by [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]], who summarily disabled Grimlock and apprehended the Scavengers.
After being tossed into a cell on the Worldsweeper, Krok had Spinister open up Grimlock to discover a cavity within the Dinobot made to hold the Magnificence. After Scorponok filled them in on the details surrounding Grimlock and the Magnificence, he reawakened the Dinobot and sicced him on the Scavengers, with Spinister getting his arm ripped off in the process. {{storylink|The Ties That Bind (issue)|The Ties That Bind}}

[[File:KillAllCons ScavengersSurvive.jpg|upright=1.65|thumb|left]]
While Scorponok left them to their fates, the Scavengers were able to pacify Grimlock after getting him to transform into his dinosaur form. Krok then had Spinister and Nickel disassemble the other Scavengers to make it look like Grimlock had murdered them; once the Dinobot had been taken away, the Scavengers put themselves back together and stormed the bridge to confront Scorponok. After revealing the [[Firstborn]] and his plan to raise an army of Decepticons through organic reproduction, Scorponok attempted to extract the Scavengers' sparks only to be stopped by Nickel using a prerecorded message from Tarn. Spinister and the others then made their escape to a transmat and set in coordinates for [[Garrus-9]] provided to them by the Magnificence. However, Grimlock elected to stay behind to protect the Firstborn and pushed the Scavengers into the portal before they could debate over it. Upon ending up in what appeared to be Garrus-9, Spinister and his pals found themselves locked in Grimlock's old cell. With the Magnificence non-respondent and no way to call for help, the Scavengers were well and truly helpless. {{storylink|Kill All 'Cons}}

Or so it seemed until [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]], while exploring a temple in what she believed to be the [[Transformer afterlife|Afterspark]], stumbled upon the Scavengers. {{storylink|The Everlasting Voices (2): The God War|The God War}} After a confrontation over misunderstandings, the Scavengers and Nautica soon figured out that "Garrus-9" and "the Afterspark" were both illusions generated by the euthanasia clinic [[Mederi]]. After recovering the body of [[Axe (G1)|Axe]] from one of the wards, the group met up with the rest of Nautica's crew and pieced together the mystery of Mederi – as well as the fact that Mederi was in fact the "[[Cyberutopia]]" that Nautica and her crewmates had been searching for. Before they could revel in their escape from Mederi's patient-killing program, the Scavengers and the Crusadercons were attacked by a horde of [[Sparkeater (creature)|sparkeaters]] created from the rest of the ''[[Lost Light]]''{{'}}s crew. {{storylink|The Everlasting Voices (3): You Are Here|You Are Here}}

[[File:Lustrare-SpinisterWipeout.jpg|thumb|200px]]
As the sparkeaters attacked, Spinister and the others were saved by the timely arrival of Grimlock, who was accompanied by [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]], [[Riptide (G1)|Riptide]], [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]], and [[Wipe-Out]]. When the ''Lost Light'' showed up, Crankcase and Grimlock went with [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]]' team to board the captured ship while Spinister and the other Scavengers barricaded themselves in Ward Zero with Mederi's telepaths. {{storylink|Crucible (Part 1): A Dance Before Dying|A Dance Before Dying}} While Spinister worked with "[[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|the angry doctor]]", Nickel was able to stop the sparkeaters by using Ward Zero's generator to cure them. Shortly after, the telepaths began to give an ominous countdown, culminating with a rift opening up in space. {{storylink|Crucible (Part 2): Lūstrāre|Lūstrāre}} The Scavengers and Crusadercons all hopped onto the recaptured ''Lost Light'' and went through the rift, ending up in a system comprising five replica Cybertrons. After landing on one of the Cybertrons, the crew were confronted by the forces of the [[Adaptus|Grand Architect]], who decided to let them aboard onto his Worldsweeper. As [[Froid]] and [[Sunder (G1)|Sunder]] filled them in on the Grand Architect's plan to use a "[[God Gun]]" to repel an oncoming threat, Spinister and the others noticed said God Gun open up another rift through space, bringing forth a fleet of ships led by [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]! {{storylink|Crucible (Part 3): Farsickness|Farsickness}}

[[File:TheReturnOfTheKing MegatronGreetsScavengers.jpg|upright=1.6|thumb|left]]
Only Megatron wasn't leading the fleet of ships but rather fleeing from them; the fleet itself turned out to belong to the [[Functionist Council]] of an [[Functionist Universe|alternate timeline]]... and among these forces was a planet-sized robot cast in the image of [[Primus]], made from said timeline's Cybertron. As "Primus" laid waste to the God Gun, Megatron's ship fired on the Grand Architect's Worldsweeper to free Spinister and the others, bringing them aboard the [[Last Light (ship)|''Last Light'']]. Spinister and his fellow Scavengers were all astonished when Megatron greeted them warmly and mentioned them by their names (and nicknames). {{storylink|Crucible (Part 4): The Return of the King|The Return of the King}} After meeting up with the rest of Rodimus' group on the ''Lost Light'', the assembled crew devised a plan to defeat the Functionist Council through the use of twelve [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrixes]] created by the real Primus, [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] (though from Spinister's perspective, it was just everyone taking turns to say things). {{storylink|Crucible (Part 5): The Unremembering|The Unremembering}} Once the Functionist Cybertron had been forced back into robot mode thanks to the timely arrival of [[Moonbase One|Luna 1]], the crew set their plan into motion. Heading down to the [[hot spot (phenomenon)|hot spot]] [[Automica]], Spinister provided cover fire for the Matrix-carrying Thunderclash as they were faced with Functionist forces. Although they were briefly overwhelmed, the pair was able to open their Matrix after an uplifting speech from Rodimus, sending its energies through the hot spot and into [[Vector Sigma]], where it vaporized the members of the Functionist Council. {{storylink|Crucible (Part 6): A Spark Among Embers|A Spark Among Embers}}

In the aftermath, the Scavengers attended a gathering at [[Swerve's]], where they made amends with Fortress Maximus. After the party had concluded and the ''Lost Light'' was disassembled, Spinister and his fellow Scavengers departed for Troja Major to meet up with CONS4EVA. In another universe, the Scavengers were [[quantum generator|quantum duplicated]] along with the entire crew of the ''Lost Light'', and prepared for some further adventures in their new setting. {{storylink|How To Say Goodbye And Mean It: Part 2}}
{{--}}

===''Kre-O'' cartoon===
[[Image:Kreon Spinister wallpaper.jpg|thumb|200px|He's angry because he doesn't know which of his guns to shoot first.]]
Spinister, Galvatron, and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] were sent by [[Megatron (Kre-O)|Megatron]] to rob the [[Autobot City Bank]]. In heavy disguise, they went in and got the drop on the bank tellers, only for [[Optimus Prime (Kre-O)|Optimus Prime]], [[Bumblebee (Kre-O)|Bumblebee]], and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] to turn up. Spinister whistled for [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], who ripped the roof off the bank and disposed of the three Autobots. Once they'd broken open the safe, Spinister flew the [[energon]] back to Megatron. {{storylink|Quest for Energon, Part 1}}

He operated the completed weapon and successfully used it to make a giant grilled cheese sandwich for Megatron. When Wheeljack and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] invaded the work site, Spinister and the other Kreons surrounded the pair. Unfortunately the interlopers were a diversion, and the Decepticons were splattered by exploded grilled cheese sandwich then tied up in a net by the other Autobots. {{storylink|Quest for Energon, Part 2}}

===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===
Spinister and the rest of the Mayhem Attack Squad were drawn to a cavern on Earth by a Decepticon signal, finding upon their arrival that the extra-dimensional [[Ramjet (Universe)|Ramjet]] was the one broadcasting it. Bludgeon spoke with their new acquaintance, who momentarily showed that he had power that rivaled the Squad's. Spinister was left staring in awe as Ramjet sent eldritch energies flowing into Ruckus and effortlessly tossed him aside. The Squad agreed to join forces with Ramjet, and together they began to plot the destruction of the universe. {{storylink|History}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' continuity===
====''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' marketing material====
Spinister was a [[Cybertronian military insignia|Air Force Infantry Raider]], whose function was aerial assault. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Siege|''Siege'' webpage}}<ref name=Siege>[https://transformers.hasbro.com/en-us/brands/siege ''Siege'' website]</ref> During the war for Cybertron, Spinister was stationed at [[Nova Cronum]] and requested reinforcements. Though the site was undergoing a high volume of Decepticon air strikes, the combat resources there were inefficient. {{storylink|Source:Teletraan-1 Data Files|''Siege'' Teletraan-1 Data Files}}

====''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Gray Haddock]] (English)|[[Mathieu Buscatto]] (French), [[Paul Matzke]] (German), [[Fred Mascarenhas]] (Portuguese), [[Julián Rodríguez]] (Castilian Spanish), [[Alejandro Orozco]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Riccardo Petrozzi]] (Italian)}}
[[File:Siege-Ep3-Spinister-avoids-death.jpg|thumb|left|Tis but a flesh wound!]]
Spinister was part of a group of Decepticons springing a trap on the arriving [[Autobot]]s at [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. After the Autobots took the bait, the Decepticons attacked, which resulted in the Autobots making a stand against their attackers, leading to [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] being buried and left for dead, the carnage giving the Autobots the chance to escape. Following the battle, Spinister accompanied [[Barricade (IDW)|Barricade]] and [[Flywheels|Skytread]] when they reported their failure to [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], who was rather frustrated at the loss of both Impactor and the highly valuable Energon. However, [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] confirmed that while they did not have the Energon, neither did their Autobot enemies. {{storylink|Siege episode 2}}

Spinister was joking with Skytread when a new Decepticon reported a lead on the Autobots, prompting the cons to joke about their Autobot victims, horrifying the newcomer. As they laughed wickedly, Spinister noticed a glitch in the newcomer's paintwork, which continued until the new con accidentally revealed he was Mirage in disguise. His cover blown, Mirage's friends came in to back him up. Spinister wound up tangling with Optimus Prime, who threw him onto a spike. {{storylink|Siege episode 3}} Spinister later returned alive and well during the final push against the Autobots. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}}

Spinister remained behind on Cybertron under Shockwave's command after Megatron and most of his forces left aboard the completed ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]''. Using cloaking technology developed by Shockwave, Spinister participated in ambushing the Autobot resistance, taking several into custody. However, they failed to account for the presumed dead [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]], who took Spinister out with a sniper shot to the head. The facility was destroyed by bombs planted and detonated by [[Elita One (G1)|Elita-1]] shortly afterwards, Spinister dying either from the headshot or the blast. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 6}}

===''Generations Selects Special Comic''===
In [[2050]], Spinister and the Decepticons lent their support to the Earth-born [[Selector]]s, robots eager to rebel against their human makers who enslaved them. {{storylink|Volcanicus comic 2}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Storm Horizon Part 1|''Galaxies'' #10]]}}

[[File:StormHorizonPart1-Spinister.jpg|thumb|300px]]
Banished from [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] by [[Nominus Prime]] at some point after the end of the [[War of the Threefold Spark]], {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} Spinister fell into the employ of [[Soundblaster (G1)|Soundblaster]], who recruited him to run an expansive "splice-thieving" operation to source raw materials for [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]'s experiments. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 3}} Spinister and his employees lured innocent Cybertronians from across the colonial sectors to the planet [[Kworia]] with promises of fake treasure, then harvested their organs and shipped them back to Cybertron. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} At some point, [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] visited the planet while searching for ancient Cybertronian artifacts around the massive [[Black Sphere]] that dominated the [[Decimus Sector]]. As the splice thieves had charted several worlds in the system, Soundblaster cut a deal with the old sage and left Spinister in charge of the business while he went off with Trion. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}}

While searching for Alpha Trion, [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] and the other crew members of the starship ''[[Fist of Iacon]]'' visited Kworia. With Magnus on the ground, Spinister led his team aboard the ship and took the crew prisoner. When Magnus stumbled across the hub of their operations, Spinister revealed that he'd trussed up his entire crew and offered a deal: find Trion and his mythical artifacts, or else his entire crew would become fodder for the splice-thieves. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} Spinister's bargain was a ruse, however—in reality, he only wanted to use Magnus as a convenient mercenary to find and retrieve [[Octane]], who had absconded Spinister's employ with a significant haul of raw materials. Magnus agreed to these terms and set out with a skeleton crew to the Black Sphere, and when he stumbled across [[Kr'mzik|Octane's ship]] on the planet [[Obsidar]], Spinister and his mercenaries arrived to take Octane in and kill Magnus. Magnus was not without backup, however, and when [[Victory Leo]] arrived to carpet-bomb the villains Spinister cut his losses and ran... only for Magnus to catch up with him and demand the truth. Spinister explained that Alpha Trion had left with Soundblaster, and while Magnus went off to rescue his mentor from the Black Sphere's event horizon Spinister and Octane wound up in the ''Fist''{{'}}s brig. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 3}}

===''My Little Pony/Transformers''===
{{charstubfiction}}

==Commercial appearances==
Spinister used his Targetmasters [[Hairsplitter]] and [[Singe]] to chase down a group of Autobot-allied Nebulans. The Nebulans' Autobot allies then showed up, and used their own partners' gun modes to retaliate! Spinister and [[Needlenose (G1)|Needlenose]] transformed to robot mode to continue the fight on foot. {{storylink|Commercial/Generation 1#Double Targetmasters|Double Targetmasters commercial}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
Following the restoration of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], Spinister and [[Acid Storm (G1)|Acid Storm]] attempted to ambush a group of Autobots who were exploring the changes to their world. The pair were promptly captured and sent to a detention facility. {{storylink|The Autonomy Lesson (Legends)|The Autonomy Lesson}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:BattleTacticsSpinister.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|You've got to SPEEN!]]
Spinister participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was an Epic character who was available in the June Daily Campaign and could be recruited after collecting 20 Alpha cores, 20 Beta cores, 20 Omega cores, and 10 cores of this character. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Bumblebee Overdrive''===
[[File:BBOSpinister.jpg|thumb|100px]]
Spinister is in charge of the thirteenth Decepticon base attacked by the Autobots. He uses his helicopter mode to gain an aerial advantage, but is swiftly defeated. He appears once the player manages to gain 11,800,000 points. {{storylink|Transformers: Bumblebee Overdrive}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:Spinister-Earth Wars.jpg|thumb|upright=1.75]]
Spinister is a member of the Decepticon Justice Division. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Enter the DJD}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1Spinister toy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Inyuk-chuk!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (Targetmaster, [[1988]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': "Hairsplitter" and "Singe" Targetmaster partners/guns
{{toydesigner|[[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)}}

: Released in the fifth year of the [[The Transformers (toyline)|original ''Transformers'' toyline]], in the second year of the Targetmaster assortment, Spinister transforms into a rather busily-coloured [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes|AH-64 Apache attack helicopter]]. The rotors spin, but the main rotor tends to fold back into its storage mode when turned. Spinister's only robot mode articulation is at the neck and (oddly difficult to rotate) shoulders.

: His Targetmaster partners [[Singe#Toys|Singe]] and [[Hairsplitter#Toys|Hairsplitter]] can be attached to his vehicle mode via peg holes on the undersides of his stabilizing wings.

: Spinister, like all the [[Targetmaster (technology)|Double Targetmasters]], was never released in Japan.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Decepticon/Spinister/spinister.htm More information on Spinister at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/instructions/decepticon/1988/instr_spinister.jpg Instructions for Spinister at Botchthecrab.com]''
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:TL-toy SpinisterBC12.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|My name's not "Spinster," people.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''BotCon Souvenir Set 3 Spinister and Octopunch''' (Multi-pack, [[2012]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Left & right missile launchers, 2 missiles

: [[BotCon 2012]]'s ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' version of Spinister is a [[redeco]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)#HFTD|the 2010 ''Hunt for the Decepticons'']] Deluxe Class [[Tomahawk (TF 2010)#Toys|Tomahawk]] toy, with the alternate-tooling head used for ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|Dark of the Moon]]'' [[Vortex (Movie)#Dark of the Moon|Vortex]]. He transforms into a slightly futuristic strike helicopter with a rotating camera array under its cockpit, sporting an amalgamation of features from both the {{w|Eurocopter Tiger}} and the ADH-02 Hellhound attack helicopter from ''{{w|Patlabor}}''. He comes with two spring-loaded missile launchers that mount under his wings via [[5 mm post]]s, or can be attached to 3mm bars via their [[c joint]] clips. In [[robot mode]], he is armed with "snapping pincers" on his right forearm, while his missile launchers end up over his shoulders.

: Spinister was only available in an at-convention souvenir two-pack with [[Octopunch (SG)#Toys|''Shattered Glass'' Octopunch]], and limited to 1500 total sets.

: Non-attending members could purchase the figure in the Transformers Collector's Club Online Store.

: The original version of this mold was [[retool]]ed to make ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' [[Springer (G1)/toys#Generations|Springer]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2012/Decepticon/BCSpinister/spinister.htm More information on ''BotCon 2012'' Spinister at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy SpinisterKreon.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|His weapon doubles as his bed.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (Micro-Changer, 2012)}}</ul>
:*''Kit number'': '''A1007'''
:*''Bag number'': '''21451 7'''
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of a six-figure "preview" wave of [[Micro-Changer]] [[Kreon]]s, Spinister is a [[Blindpacking|blindpacked]] bagged mini-figure. He comes with extra parts which turn him into a kinda-sorta-helicoptery thing, or can be used to form a ridiculously huge double-gatling-style "beam cannon" for robot mode use.

:He uses [[Mirage (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Mirage]]'s helmet and [[Vortex (G1)#Kre-O|Vortex]]'s torso-armor/rotor-blade combo. He also carries a clear-purple version of [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Soundwave]]'s pistol.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2012/Decepticon/Kre-OSpinister/spinister.htm More information on Spinister at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/gallery/kre-o/spinister/2831/1/ Image gallery of Spinister at Seibertron.com]''
{{--}}

===''Generations''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Thrilling-30-Spinister.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|From Targetmaster to Targetmaster'd]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Nemesis Prime & Spinister''' (Legends Class, [[2014]])}}</ul>
:*''Series / Number'': '''2 / 018'''
:*''Accessories'': Rotor

:''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Legends Class Spinister is a redeco of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#Thrilling 30|Thrilling 30]]'' [[Blaze Master#Generations|Blazemaster]], transforming into a helicopter of made-up model, a robot with [[C joint|3mm-compatible]] hands, and a blaster-weapon with a [[5 mm post|5mm handle]].

: He was only available packaged with [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Generations|Nemesis Prime]], who can wield him in weapon mode.

: This mold was also used to make the [[campaign item]] [[Jolt (Armada)#Transformers|Micron Jolt]] and ''Generations'' [[Shūta Gō#Generations|Shūta Gō]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Decepticon/GenSpinister/spinister.htm More information on ''Generations'' Spinister at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
[[File:CombinerWarstoy-SpinisterTFSS.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|One look at you and I can't disguise I've got separate eyes]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (Deluxe, [[2016]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Laser rifle, "Shrute" and "Singe" Targetmaster partners, four-pronged taser/Combiner extremity
{{toydesigner|[[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

: Part of the [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service#Series 4.0 (2016)|Figure Subscription Service 4.0]], ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Spinister is a [[redeco]] of Deluxe Class [[Alpha Bravo#Generations|Alpha Bravo]], transforming into a helicopter that resembles an {{w|Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin|Aérospatiale SA 365 Dauphin 2}}. He can also form either an arm or a leg for any standard-issue ''Combiner Wars''-style gestalt (or into one of [[Godbomber#Legends|''Legends'' Godbomber]]'s legs), though he is nominally intended to combine with [[Bludgeon (G1)#Generations|Bludgeon]] to form [[Thunder Mayhem#Toys|Thunder Mayhem]].

: He includes his Targetmaster partners "[[Hairsplitter#Generations|Shrute]]" and [[Singe#Generations|Singe]], redecoes of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#Thrilling 30|Thrilling 30]]'' [[Holepunch (G1)#Generations|Holepunch]] and [[Tracer (Targetmaster)#Generations|Caliburst]], respectively.

: On August 20, 2015, the [[Transformers Collectors' Club|Collectors' Club]] took to Twitter to let fans decide if Spinister's head should feature a [[:File:TFSS_Spinister_head_options.JPG|black or teal paint application in the area around his eyes]]. Black won the poll but the final toy had the teal application.

{{CWAlphaBravoMold}}
{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron: Siege''===
[[File:WFC-Siege-Deluxe-Spinister.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Nobody tell him he didn't actually win that [[Fan polls#2018 .281.29|vote]].]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (Deluxe Class, [[2020]])}}</ul>
:*''Hasbro ID number'': '''WFC-S48'''
:*''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''SG-42'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[January 25]], [[2020]]
:*''Hidden message code'': '''RSPINISTE'''
:*''Accessories'': "NFM Dual-[[Fusion cannon|Fusion Cannon]]," "Spin-Blast [[Particle beam cannon|Particle Beam Cannon]]"
{{toydesigner|[[Ken Christiansen]] (concept artist)|[[AJ Piejko-Brown]] (packaging)}}

: Despite not winning the [[Fan polls#War for Cybertron Trilogy|2018 ''War for Cybertron: Siege'' fan poll]], Spinister was still produced and released in the fifth and final wave of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' Deluxes, converting from robot to Cybertronian helicopter (with [[Popular Cybertronian vehicle alternate modes#Apache-esque helicopter|some elements of]] an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes|AH-64 Apache attack helicopter]]) and back. He comes with two weapons: the "NFM Dual-Fusion Cannon", and a "Spin-Blast Particle Beam Cannon", based off of his Targetmaster partners' weapon modes. In an undocumented but extremely obvious feature, his guns can be combined to form a single four-barreled gun the way the the original toy's Targetmasters could.

: In an effort to reconcile the fact his original toy's box art has the appearance of a complete cockpit for each shin, only one of Spinister's legs forms his alt mode's cockpit and nose, while the other is stored away, leaving him with another, identical cockpit section in his undercarriage. This cockpit will not tab in correctly if the instructions are followed: his left hip needs to be rotated through 180 degrees (and the leg rotated back down) before folding the cockpit in.

: Additionally, the ''Siege'' line also featured [[Battle Master]]s intended to represent Spinister's original Targetmaster partners, which are compatible with ''Siege'' Spinister: [[Singe#War for Cybertron: Siege|Singe]] was available by himself in wave 4, whereas Hairsplitter (now named "[[Hairsplitter#War for Cybertron: Siege|Shrute]]") was available as part of the [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] exclusive "Decepticon Phantomstrike Squadron" set with [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Skywarp]].

: The original stock renders included additional paint applications not present on the final toy, those being silver details on his mouthplate and shoulders, purple details on his chest, and a painted yellow plug on his abdomen. Also, stock renders for his helicopter mode showed both of his weapons being the same shade of blue as his lower body and legs, while the robot mode renders and the physical toy had his Dual-Fusion Cannon being in the same pink-ish purple color as his arms.

: Strangely, Spinister’s instruction booklet uses the Autobot insignia and colour scheme.

: Though designated for a first quarter 2020 release, Spinister's wave reached U.S. store shelves in December 2019.

:This mold was later used to make [[Rotorstorm (G1)#Generations|Rotorstorm]].
{{--}}

===''Age of the Primes''===
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Spinister vs. Topspin''' (Multi-pack, [[2025]])}}</ul>
:*Accessories: 2 double-barreled blasters

:''[[Transformers: Age of the Primes|Age of the Primes]]'' Spinister is a repaint of the above figure from ''War for Cybertron: Siege'', now colored to resemble his appearance in the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comics]]. As with the original figure, he transforms into a Cybertronian helicopter with design elements evoking an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes|AH-64 Apache attack helicopter]]. He includes his two combining two double-barreled blasters, but he is also now accompanied by his Targetmasters, [[Hairsplitter#Age of the Primes|Hairsplitter]] and [[Singe#Age of the Primes|Singe]], repainted from fellow [[Targetmaster (technology)#doubletargetmasters|Double Targetmaster]] [[Needlenose (G1)#Legacy|Needlenose]]’s partners.

:Spinister was released in a two-pack with [[Topspin (G1)#Age of the Primes|Topspin]] and [[Freezeout (TR)#Age of the Primes|Headmaster Freezeout]] as part of the “Wreck ‘n Doom Collection,” which was exclusive to [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] in the US and available in limited quantities on [[Hasbro Pulse]]. The set was revealed on [[January 13]], [[2025]] and went up for preorder the following day.
{{comingsoontoy}}

==Merchandise==
===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W4RaiderSpinister.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Raider Spinister, Infantry-Aerial Assault''' (2019)
**'''Wave 4: War for Cybertron: Siege II'''
**''Rarity: '''''UT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T40/T52'''
**''Stars: ''11

:Raider Spinister, Infantry-Aerial Assault is one of 52 character cards released in Wave 4 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], War for Cybertron: Siege II.

:The card's artwork is based on the ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' Spinister toy, with the Bot Mode art being reused from the toy's packaging art, and with original Alt Mode artwork (lines by [[Andrew Griffith]]).
{{--}}

==Notes==
*Spinister's BotCon ''Timelines'' bio card art depicts him wielding Vortex's [[MechTech]] weapon. The toy doesn't come with it, and there's no real evidence it was ever intended to.
*''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' [[Highbrow (G1)#Titans Return|Highbrow]] shares many details evoking sculpted and sticker details from Generation 1 [[#Toys|Spinister]]—note the robot mode shoulder squares with slanted lines, the asymmetric "belt buckle" on the robot mode waist, the main rotor blades being gray and double-bladed instead of triple-bladed, and the tail rotor in vehicle mode. One might surmise that Hasbro planned Spinister as the "pretooled" alternate head for Highbrow, but no such toy came to fruition.
*Spinister was one of the unsuccessful options in the 2018 [[Fan polls#2018 (1)|Fan poll]], paired with [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]. He was described as a saboteur, against Wheeljack's scientist, taking inspiration from his G1 toy bio.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Spinister''' (スピニスター ''Supinisutā'')
*''Hungarian:'' '''Vészmadár''' ("Waybird")

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:TFSS-Spinister-profile art.jpg|TFSS ''Of Masters and Mayhem'' profile art
File:Siege-Spinister-art.jpg|''War for Cybertron: Siege'' package art
File:Siege fan poll artwork.jpg|''War for Cybertron: Siege'' fan poll art
</gallery>

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Age of the Primes Decepticons]]
[[Category:Armada Decepticons]]
[[Category:BotCon exclusives]]
[[Category:Classics Decepticons]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Decepticons]]
[[Category:Decepticon Justice Division]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kre-O Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Marvel Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Mayhem Attack Squad]]
[[Category:Regeneration One Decepticons]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:Targetmasters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]

Hairsplitter

2025-01-13T21:10:27Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Toys */ Started adding the AotP section to Hairsplitter's page. Not fully complete. Don't have access to data (which comes out tomorrow) or images.

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Hairsplitter is a [[Decepticon]]-allied [[Nebulan]] [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Hairsplitter dt.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.]]
Nobody likes '''Hairsplitter''' (aka '''Shrute'''). He's a pencil-pushing bureaucrat who gets his kicks by writing memos that point out the inefficiencies of others. Even though he's moved from the [[Nebulos]] Department of the Environment to the Decepticons, and changed job titles—from ecological efficiency expert to [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]]—he's the same nit-picking dink he always was. He remains precise in everything he does, from snitching on layabouts to searing his name on a [[microchip]] in [[laser rifle]] mode. Presumably, his partners [[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]] and [[Singe]] hate him as much as his co-workers did.<ref>''[[The Transformers Universe (Marvel)|The Transformers Universe]]'' [[profile]] for Spinister, Singe, and Hairsplitter profile in [[Dark Creation|''The Transformers'' #65]]</ref>

==Fiction==
===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' marketing material===
[[File:Siege-Decepticon-Phantomstrike-Squadron-box-art.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|''R'' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why it's pronounced ''murder'' and not ''mukduk''.]]
Shrute was an [[Cybertronian military insignia|Air Force Espionage Raider]] and a member of the Decepticon [[Phantomstrike Squadron]]. After countless attacks had been made on several of the [[Autobot]] resistance's positions by Shrute and the rest of the Phantomstrike Squadron, the [[Firestormer|Autobot Alphastrike Counterforce]] was called into action. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Siege#Exclusives|Final Strike Figure Series marketing material}}<ref name=Amazon>[https://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Generations-Cybertron-Decepticon-Phantomstrike/dp/B07NZ86GJP Decepticon Phantomstrike Squadron on Amazon]</ref> Dispatched to the outer edge of the [[Rust Sea|Sea of Rust]], inside an [[Underground Safe Zone|underground base]], {{storylink|Source:Teletraan-1 Data Files|''Siege'' Teletraan-1 Data Files}} Alphastrike analyzed the Phantomstrike Squadron's attack patterns, anticipating their next strike. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Siege#Exclusives|Final Strike Figure Series marketing material}}<ref name=Amazon/>

While the Phantomstrike Squadron was stationed in [[Darkmount (Cybertron)|Darkmount]], south-east of Alphastrike's position,<ref>[[:File:WFC-Siege-CybertronMap.jpeg|Map of Cybertron released as part of the online ''Siege'' bonus content.]]</ref> [[Greenlight]]—who had been tracking them from her drop point in a nearby deserted Decepticon zone—attempted to transmit the all-clear for the attack to commence, but the Phantomstrike Squadron discovered her transmission and corrupted its signal. [[Teletraan I|Teletraan-1]] attempted to retrieve the full transmission from the Decepticons to gather the location data needed to assess the threat. Following this, a battle ensued between both strike teams. {{storylink|Source:Teletraan-1 Data Files|''Siege'' Teletraan-1 Data Files}}

===''Generations Selects Special Comic''===
In [[2050]], Spinister wielded Shrute and Singe as the Autobots and Decepticons charged into battle against the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]. {{storylink|Volcanicus comic 2}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
Shrute was introduced to Earth Wars by [[Hook (G1)#Transformers: Earth Wars|Hook]]. He immediately began berating the rest of his team ([[Blot (G1)#Transformers: Earth Wars|Blot]] in particular) for their poor living standards. Hook brushed off the excessive pedantry as being "officious". As a M.E.D.I.C. bot, Shrute can be equipped to another bot to boost shielding.
{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}

==Commercial appearances==
[[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]] wielded both Hairsplitter and [[Singe]] in a battle against the three Autobot Double [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmasters]], firing them both wildly in their gun modes while chasing down his targets. {{storylink|Commercial/Generation 1#Double Targetmasters|Double Targetmasters commercial}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1Spinister toy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"What kind of bear is best?" "That's a ridiculous question." "False. Black bear."]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (Targetmaster, [[1988]])}}</ul>
{{toydesigner|[[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)}}
:Part of the fifth year of ''[[The Transformers (toyline)|The Transformers]]'' product, Hairsplitter transforms into a "twin lock-target laser rifle" in basically one and a half steps. As a Targetmaster, his handle is a [[5 mm post]], making him compatible with a '''''lot''''' of toys throughout the entire franchise. His base also features a 5mm post-hole, nominally used to combine him with his pack-in partner [[Singe#Toys|Singe]] to form a super-rifle.

:Singe and Hairsplitter were only available with the Decepticon Targetmaster [[Spinister (G1)#Toys|Spinister]] in 1988. No version of this character or mold was released in Japan.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Decepticon/Hairsplitter/hairsplitter.htm More information on Hairsplitter at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
{{anchor|Generations}}
[[File:TFSS_Spinister_Shrute.JPG|thumb|upright=1.66|"Identity theft is not a joke, Singe! Millions of families suffer every orbital cycle!"]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Spinister''' (TFSS 4.0, [[2016]])}}</ul>
:''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' "'''Shrute'''" (likely due to [[trademark]] reasons) is a redeco of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#Thrilling 30|Thrilling 30]]'' [[Holepunch (G1)#Generations|Holepunch]], transforming into a double-barreled gun. He can also combine with his pack-in partner [[Singe#Generations|Singe]] (or any other iteration of the [[Tracer (Targetmaster)#Generations|Caliburst]] mold) to form a super-rifle, with either one forming the "front" part.

:He was only available as an accessory with [[Spinister (G1)#Combiner Wars|Spinister]], the third figure released in the [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service#Series 4.0 (2016)|Figure Subscription Service 4.0]].

:This mold was also used to make ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' [[Cline#Toys|Cline]], and ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' [[Zigzag#Generations|Zputty]].
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron: Siege''===
[[File:TF-Generations-WFC-S-Decepticon-Phantomstrike-Squadron-Shrute.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb |"I'm the Assistant Squadron leader." "Assistant ''to'' the Squadron Leader." "Same thing." "No, it's lower, so..." "It's close."]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Decepticon Phantomstrike Squadron''' (Multi-pack, [[2019]])}}</ul>
:*''Hasbro ID number:'' '''WFC-S27'''
:*''TakaraTomy ID Number:'' '''SG-EX'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date:'' '''[[January 20]], [[2021]]'''
:*''Hidden message code'': '''TELEPORT'''
:*''Accessories:'' 2 "[[Fire Blast effect]]s"
:Part of the [[Amazon]]-[[exclusive]] "Decepticon Phantomstrike Squadron", "Shrute" is a redeco of [[Aimless#War for Cybertron: Siege|Aimless]], transforming into a "Manifold Ion Particle Blaster" and back. He includes two "fire blast" effect pieces that can be used to simulate his blaster mode firing, and can slot onto the various hardpoints found on other figures and weaponry from the same line to simulate blaster fire or explosions. The actual gun barrel piece can detach from his back, revealing a 3 mm peg, and connect to his arm for robot-mode use.

:This set also includes [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Skywarp]], [[Fracas#War for Cybertron: Siege|Fracas]], and [[Terror-Daxtyl#Toys|Terror-Daxtyl]]. It was made available at general retail in Taiwan without prior announcement from Hasbro, and was an [[Amazon]] exclusive for North America (which also labels the set as "Final Strike Figure Series: Part 2") and a [[TakaraTomy Mall]] exclusive in Japan.

:Hairsplitter's original partners, [[Spinister (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Spinister]] and [[Singe#War for Cybertron: Siege|Singe]], were also each remade and released separately as part of ''Siege''.
{{WFCSiegeBlowpipeMold}}
{{WFCSiegeAimlessFireBlastMold}}
{{--}}

===''Age of the Primes''===
:Part of the [[Amazon]]-[[exclusive]] "Wreck 'n Doom Collection", Hairsplitter is a redeco of [[Sunbeam (G1)#Legacy|Decepticon Sunbeam]].
:Hairsplitter comes packaged with Spinister, Singe, Topspin, and Headmaster Freezeout.

==Notes==
*Singe and Hairsplitter's images were swapped in ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]''.
*Hairsplitter is the only Double Targetmaster to have a 'generic' recolor—a [[Mini-Con]] based on his [[character model]] appeared in ''[[Transformers: Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]''.{{fact}}
*Hairsplitter's trademark-friendly name, "Shrute", is derived from [[Rainn Wilson]]'s character, the fellow pencil-pushing petty bureaucrat {{w|Dwight Schrute}} from ''{{w|The Office (American TV series)|The Office}}.
*As no Double Targetmasters were released in Japan, Shrute's 2020 appearance in ''Generations Selects Special Comic'' was his, Singe, and Spinister's debut in Japanese G1 continuity. In this case, Shrute is probably a [[Cyberdroid]] from [[Master (planet)|Master]] rather than an organic Nebulan.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Shrute''' (シュルート ''Shurūto'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Battle Masters]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Decepticons]]
[[Category:Nebulans]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:TakaraTomy Mall exclusives]]
[[Category:Targetmasters]]
[[Category:Variable species characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]

Alpha Trion (One)

2024-12-26T22:23:49Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Notes */

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3|Alpha Trion}}
:''Alpha Trion is a [[Transformer]] from [[Transformers One (franchise)|One]].''

[[File:Onealphatrion.jpg|thumb|300px|"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."]]

A member of the [[Thirteen|Primes]], '''Alpha Trion''' is one of the ancient rulers of Cybertron.

{{bigquote|What defines a [[Transformer]] is not the [[Transformation cog|cog]] in his chest, but the [[spark]] that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your [[Cybertron (planet)|world]] better. My fellow [[Thirteen|Primes]] had that spark, and I see their strength in you.|Alpha Trion's speech of inspiration|''[[Transformers One (film)|Transformers One]]''}}

==Fiction==
===''One'' film===
{{voiceactor|[[Laurence Fishburne]] (English), [[Tesshō Genda]] (Japanese)|[[Gerardo Reyero]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Humberto Solórzano]] (Latin-American Spanish, first trailer), [[Tony Aguilar]] (Spain Spanish), [[Juan Carlos Gustems]] (Spain Spanish, first trailer), [[Massimo Corvo]] (Italian), [[Thierry Desroses]] (European French), [[Tristan Harvey]] (Canadian French), [[Tom Vogt]] (German), [[Markus Bäckman]] (Finnish), [[Oleg Stalchuk]] (Ukrainian)}}
[[File:One-Alpha-Trion.jpg|thumb|left|270px|There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.]]
Alpha Trion was one of the [[Thirteen|Primes]], the first Transformers created by [[Primus]]. He participated in the war against the [[Quintesson]]s, recording an urgent SOS message including his location into a beacon during the ill-fated last stand of the Primes. Unfortunately, the beacon containing Alpha Trion's message ended up lost in waste disposal, but a local disposal worker [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]] salvaged it and used it as a component to make an imaginary friend named "[[Steve (One)|Steve]]." There the message remained for the next 50 cycles, until [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] and [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] were thrown into the disposal area B-127 worked in. Orion inadvertently discovered the beacon and activated the message, leading the three to believe it led to the location of the lost [[Matrix of Leadership]] and embark on a quest to discover it.

When the three bots (now joined by [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]]) discovered the cave where the slain Primes lay, Orion found Alpha Trion buried under an immense amount of rock and unearthed him. Unlike the other Primes, Alpha Trion had in fact survived, but had gone into [[stasis lock]] for the cycles that followed. Orion placed a piece of energon provided by B-127 into Alpha Trion's mouth, reviving the old sage. Alpha Trion reacted violently at first, momentarily believing he was still in the midst of battle, but Orion was able to calm him down and bring him up to speed on the current state of affairs. However, when Orion mentioned [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]], Alpha Trion was quick to point out that Sentinel was ''not'' a true Prime. Educating the quartet about Sentinel's treachery, he took them to an overgrown cliff where they watched Sentinel kneel before a [[Quintesson High Commander]]. Though the four younger bots were dismayed and dejected to learn the truth about Sentinel, Alpha Trion rallied them to action with some wise words, reminding them that they must inform the public of the truth and bequeathing them with the [[transformation cog]]s of four of the Primes.

Unfortunately, that was when Sentinel's enforcers discovered them and descended on the cave. Alpha Trion told the quartet to flee as he prepared to hold the line, informing Orion that this battle would have to be his so that Orion's time may come later. Though the [[Death Tracker]]s mocked him and called him old, the ancient Prime was quick to remind them he still had some fight left in him by transforming into his beast mode and swiftly tearing them apart. However, a surprise attack from above by [[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] caught him unawares, and a captured Alpha Trion was brought before Sentinel. Defiant even in captivity, Alpha Trion engaged in a battle of words against Sentinel, but Sentinel did not take kindly to the old sage exposing the truth with his speeches and killed Alpha Trion with his blade.

In death, Alpha Trion reunited with his brethren in the AllSpark. A vision of Alpha Trion among his fellow Primes later appeared to a heavily damaged Orion Pax as he fell into Cybertron's core, announcing that he had been chosen by Primus to carry the Matrix and lead Cybertron. As the power of the Matrix reformatted his body, Alpha Trion bestowed upon him the name Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Transformers One (film)|One}}

==Toys==
===''One''===
{{anchor|PrimeChanger}}
[[File:Prime_Changers_Alpha_Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Genderbent [[Twilight Sparkle]].]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Prime Changers, [[2024]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy name:'' '''Deluxe Class Alpha Trion''' (デラックスクラスアルファトライオン)
:*''TakaraTomy ID number:'' '''OD-02'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[2024]] [[July 13]]
:*''Accessories:'' Energon tail whip, Energon dagger/horn
:Released as part of the [[Transformers One (toyline)|''Transformers One'']] Prime Changers line, Alpha Trion is roughly Deluxe Class-sized and is cast almost entirely in pearlescent plastic, and almost all of his paint applications (except on his weapons) use metallic or glittery paint. He transforms from a robot to a horned lion in 15 steps with his tail and horn being wielded as weapons in robot mode. They can be stored inside the "cape" formed from the halves of his beast-mode head. There is a 3 mm flight stand port on the back of his pelvis, though it is blocked off in beast mode by his tail.

{{-}}{{anchor|RobotBattlers}}
[[File:Robot_Battlers_Alpha_Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Neither giant nor a [[Giant Purple Griffin|griffin]], but it'll have to do.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Robot Battlers, 2024)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Energon tail whip, Energon dagger/horn, base
: Released as part of the Robot Battlers line, Alpha Trion transforms from a robot into a robotic horned lion. Instead of an Energon sword like other Robot Battlers, Alpha Trion's weapons are his detachable tail and horn. The figure can be placed on a base to perform action moves by sliding the finger slots to knock an opponent's figure off of their base.

<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''Cybertron Rush Battle: Hero-tachi no Tatakai''' (サイバトロンラッシュバトルヒーローたちの戦い, 2024)}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number:'' '''OCR-02'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date:'' [[2024]] [[October 12]]
:*''Accessories:'' Energon tail whip, Energon dagger/horn
:The Robot Battlers Alpha Trion was released in Japan as part of the Cybertron Rush "Battle of Heroes" 3-pack with [[Bumblebee (One)#RobotBattlers|Bumblebee]] and [[Sentinel Prime (One)#RobotBattlers|Sentinel Prime]], but does not come with his base.
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Alpha Trion's alternate mode being a leonine beast with a unicorn-esque horn is a direct homage to the ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Titans Return|Voyager Class toy]], itself inspired by the cancelled [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Toys|BotCon Deluxe Class toy]].

* Alpha Trion is the only member of the Primes to not have gold accents.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Alpha Trion''' (アルファトライオン ''Arufa Toraion'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Tài Shīfù''' (钛师傅, "Titanium Master")

[[Category:One Transformers]]

Nova Prime

2024-12-18T16:22:46Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Prima.png|cSize=40px|cLink=Prima|cPretty=Prima}}|autobot|decepticon|unicron}}
{{disambigm|Nova Prime (disambiguation)|Nemesis Prime (disambiguation)}}
:''Nova Prime is a [[Transformer]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:Novaprime.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[[Furmanism|Ahead, hovering, like some vast, predatory bird...]]]]
'''Nova Prime''' was the predecessor to [[Nominus Prime]]. Once the elite soldier '''Nova Major''', he led the unification of a divided [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], ascending to leadership of his people. An expansionist and a supremacist, Nova Prime believed that [[Transformer]]s were the greatest among all life forms and that they should bring their glory to the myriad of lesser races throughout the universe.

After being sucked into the [[Dead Universe]], Nova was chosen to be the host for [[Darkness (G1)|the Darkness]], an otherworldly counterpart of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] which worked by transforming the inhabitants of the Dead Universe into [[Zombie|undead wielders of anti-life]]. Upon merging, Nova was reborn as the sinister and extremely powerful '''Nemesis Prime'''. He now sees it as his mission to fulfil the Darkness' imperative by expanding the Dead Universe's hold into the living realm.

Nemesis may seem to hold sway over both his troops and the Darkness, but nothing could be further from the truth. The powerful [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] sees the Darkness as his rightful inheritance. And then, there is the fear. The fear that the Darkness has more in common with the Matrix than Nemesis is comfortable with. He feels he has earned this power, and isn't willing to see it follow its natural path. It is for this reason he must eliminate Optimus Prime. And it is for this reason he fears to face his successor.

{{bigquote|Nova was forever seeking, forever testing the limits of science and faith. He had a certain moral...ambiguity about the Cybertronian ideal.|[[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]|"[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]"}}

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]]}}

{{quote|'''I AM THE LEGACY OF PRIMUS!'''|Nova Prime|"[[Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things]]"}}

[[File:TheCrucible NovaMajorEucryphia.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.4]]
Long ago in [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron's]] past, there was a [[First Cybertronian Civil War|great war]] (no, not [[Great War (G1)|that one]]) and Nova Major fought for his tribe's leader [[Prima]]. Ten million years ago, Prima flew the coop and Nova was left as the last soldier standing at the Siege of the [[Citadel of Light]] until [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] arrived out of the wilderness. The two fought against the beast hordes and drove them back, turning the siege into a by-word for courage. [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the last Prime on the planet, was the one who brought them together in the hope that they could end the war.

Realizing the Primes were gone, Nova went out and united the tribes (starting with [[Rhinox (BW)|the beasts]]) to create a unified Cybertronian society, one for all Cybertronians and where everyone would be "[[functionism|in their place]]." Trion later claimed that this did not sound sinister at the time.

[[File:PrimusAllGoodThings-introdump.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|"I, '''Nova Prime''', stand ready to use my '''homage''' powers to enforce a pleasing '''metafictionality!'''"]]

With Trion's blessing, Nova took the mantle of Prime. {{storylink|The Crucible}} With the war over, he and his closest friends and advisors Galvatron, [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]], and [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] went on a quest in Cybertron's underground, hoping to rediscover the lost principles of their gods, the [[Guiding Hand]]. Nova found the Hand's old home: [[Crystal City]], with its guardian [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]. Omega joined Nova's crew and they worked to bring about the legendary [[Golden Age]]. {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}}

Soon, Nova's ambition grew and he secretly began planning the [[Expansion]], the Cybertronian conquest of the universe. Obsessed with the Hand's prophecy that "[['Til all are one|all shall be one]]", he intended to enslave all other lifeforms in order to "free" them from their individual wills and make them part of something greater—Nova's empire. He formed the [[Primal Vanguard]] for off-world peacekeeping and began work on the first ''[[Ark (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|Ark]]'', claiming it was meant for trade and exploration when it was in truth the first step of the Expansion. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 2: Hangers On|Hangers On}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} However, his plans hit a snag when [[Vector Sigma]]'s flow of new [[spark]]s began to cease. Fearing that his Expansion would be impossible with a limited population of Cybertronians at his disposal, Nova had a team of scientists led by [[Solomus|Tyrest]] tap into the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and use its power to create new life, a process that was covered up as a "population augmentation program" that made use of [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|"spark splicing"]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}} {{storylink|Remain in Light 3 of 5: The Divided Self|The Divided Self}} Nova Prime also wished to evolve Cybertronians in preparation for their destiny as rulers of the universe, and against Omega's wishes, he had Jhiaxus re-engineer [[Pretender Monster|six Transformers]] to be able to [[Combiner|combine]] into a being of higher intellect and strength, in hopes of uncovering the secret of [[Nexus Prime]]'s [[Enigma of Combination]]. However they were driven mad by the merging, and they devolved into [[Monstructor (G1)|a monster]] that tore through Crystal City before they were stopped. Nova didn't care about the destruction though, feeling the city had outlived its usefulness. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:DarkCybertron1 NovaOrdersEntryIntoDU.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.7|Their "Prime Directive" is the literal opposite of [[Star Trek]]'s.]]
Nova Prime and his closest comrades boarded the ''Ark'' to enact the Expansion, making their way to the [[Benzuli Expanse]] where they discovered a portal to the [[Dead Universe]]. Seeing it as just ''another'' universe to conquer, Nova ordered the ship to pass through, not worried at all by the fact that the portal itself was pulling them in. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} The ship never reappeared and the crew was presumed dead, but Nova's aggressive intentions never came to light, and the Transformers honored his memory with a statue. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}} The Matrix he once carried remained on Cybertron, hidden in the [[Underworld|Undergrid]] {{storylink|Transformation (issue)|Transformation}}, with a fake one (that everyone believed was real) left behind for his successor, [[Nominus Prime]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 1: Post Hoc|Post Hoc}} Meanwhile, his population expansion had left Cybertron with energon shortages and caused an outburst of racism, complete with a period of apartheid, against the constructed Transformers created by his spark splicing program. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}}

[[File:Escalation6 OptimusNemesisInfraspace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|[[Lightbright (G1)|Lite-Brite]], Lite-Brite, make a face to glow at night!]]
The Prime was thought dead but countless years later, when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] downloaded himself into [[infraspace]] to survive an attack from [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], he sensed the presence of Nova Prime... and was filled with an incredible sense of dread. {{storylink|Escalation issue 6|Escalation #6}} These feelings led Optimus Prime to seek information from Omega Supreme, and shared with him his belief that Nova might still be alive, and his feelings of dread. In turn, Omega told Optimus of Nova's story, and later learned of Monstructor. Optimus was left with the knowledge that the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] lineage had been corrupt from the start, and it gave the Autobot leader something to ponder about. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}}

It was later learned that Optimus Prime's assessment was right: Nova Prime was still functioning, though in a strange half-dead state in the [[Dead Universe]], and was now the fearsome figure known as Nemesis Prime, powered by the almighty mind-altering anti-Matrix, the [[Darkness (G1)|Darkness]], which ruled the Dead Universe. His grand plan, the Expansion, was now intended to merge the Dead Universe with the real one, allowing him to both return home at long last ''and'' direct the merged universe into a new, more ''ordered'' era.

[[File:Jhiaxusnemesisprimedevastation.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.3|Not even a toy yet and he's already got a [[black repaint]].]]
He already had an outpost and minions on [[Gorlam Prime]], ready to direct his coming Expansion. He had [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] captured by [[Sports Car Patrol|some of his minions]] and programmed {{storylink|Spotlight: Nightbeat}} to assassinate Optimus Prime at a set time, {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}} as he subconsciously knew the Darkness would behave like the Matrix and jump from him to Optimus if given the chance. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

With that secured, Nemesis Prime decided that the Expansion was ready to begin. He dispatched [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a mission to secure [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], kill the Autobots guarding him, and bring the [[Pretender]] to the Dead Universe. Galvatron secured Thunderwing, but spared the Autobots, viewing it as a small rebellion against Nova. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}} After observing the [[Reaper]]s about to destroy [[Earth]], he ordered Galvatron there to stop them, since the Earth was part of their expansion plan. {{storylink|Devastation issue 3|Devastation #3}} Galvatron performed his task well, but Prime remarked to Jhiaxus that he was aware that Galvatron had his own agendas and secrets. {{storylink|Devastation issue 6|Devastation #6}}

After [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] secured the [[Nega-Core]] and activated its guardian, Nemesis Prime initiated the Expansion with the rest of the [[Dead Universe]] crew. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}}

Nemesis Prime was found by Jhiaxus on the remains of the ''Ark'', thinking back on old times and planning for the future. Upon receiving the latest intelligence on both Cyclonus and Nightbeat, he dismissed the former and requested Jhiaxus take care of the Nightbeat situation personally. When Jhiaxus reported Nightbeat's death, Nemesis was unmoved, deciding he would take over Nightbeat's mission and deal with Optimus Prime himself. {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}}

[[File:DarknessNemesis.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|He's an 8.5 on the Kirby Dot Scale!]]
Nemesis Prime attacked the prison facility on [[Garrus-9]] while Optimus Prime was inspecting it. The Autobot defense forces were helpless against him: Nemesis was immune to all their firepower and used his deadly decaying touch to instantly snuff out their lives. Seeing that conflict was futile, Optimus Prime ordered all the defenders to retreat, then faced Nemesis Prime directly. Nemesis gloated about the upcoming Expansion, then revealed to Optimus Prime the nature of the Darkness and channeled it as a weapon against Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Spotlight: Doubledealer}}

Unfortunately for Nemesis, the Darkness ''did'' want to leap to Optimus as he had feared, and it would do so if he either used it or touched Optimus. Enraged, Nemesis backed off and resorted to firing a torrent of normal energy. Optimus was able to withstand the blast however, but their fight ended abruptly when Nemesis, distracted by the battle, was shot in the back and killed by Galvatron, as part of his plan to claim the Darkness for himself. Though Optimus Prime soon destroyed the Darkness-infused Galvatron (or so he thought), Optimus remarked that he could not mourn his predecessor, noting that Nova Prime was long dead. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

[[File:HoD3 NemesisPrimeRevealed.jpg|thumb|right|Now filled with Black Moon clan essence.]]
Nemesis's body was taken back to Cybertron, where [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] took custody of it and began studying it in his lab in hopes of finding out more about the Dead Universe. He eventually came to speculate that Nemesis had not actually perished, but rather, that his life-essence had returned to the Dead Universe. What Brainstorm was ''not'' aware of, however, was the bolt of energy that had leapt from Nemesis's corpse to his own body, leaving him in a living-dead state of his own. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

Brainstorm's supposition was proven correct when Nemesis Prime reappeared on the planet [[Dykayra]], emerging from a portal to the Dead Universe to confront Galvatron. His wounds pulsating with dark energy, he now served the greater being of which the Darkness had always been but a small part: the [[D-Void]]. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 3|Heart of Darkness #3}} Apparently seeking to retake the Darkness from Galvatron, Nemesis briefly battled him and his army, brushing off their firepower and destroyed several of Galvatron's minions by devouring their energy. He then mutated into a gigantic, horrible monster, seemingly falling under the D-Void's direct control in the process, and continued the fight against Galvatron. In the end, Galvatron was able to summon his army and force the malformed Nemesis Prime back through the portal, which he then destroyed. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}}

[[File:FinestHour NovaGalvatronExitMegatron.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|"Hey, what's the big idea? Move it, chowdah-head!"{{-}}"''Whoob whoob whoob''!"]]
As it transpired, however, Nemesis had not sought to reclaim the Darkness, but had rather only been used a pawn by D-Void in its attempts to motivate Galvatron into using the Darkness to destroy Cybertron. Following the D-Void's destruction and Galvatron's own consignment to the Dead Universe, Nemesis was at last free of its influence, and reverted to being "Nova Prime" in name and appearance once more. Working with Galvatron, he made contact with Jhiaxus and his old pupil [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] in the living universe, and began an apparent plot to conquer Cybertron and return it to Nova's leadership. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Initially hoping to use the [[space bridge]] of Shockwave's [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]] as transport out of the Dead Universe, {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} Nova and Galvatron were forced to use Megatron's personal space bridge when that plan faltered. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}} However, as Nova was about to emerge in the living universe, the united forces of [[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]]'s Autobots and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons attacked Shockwave's lair, and in the chaos, Nova was punched by [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] back into the Dead Universe.

[[File:NoExit NovaAndOrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.6]]
Trapped yet again, Nova Prime directed his rage upon a group of intruders who had entered the Dead Universe while he had been occupied: Orion Pax and his band. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}} Amused with Orion's choice to no longer call himself a Prime, Nova proceeded to mock Cyclonus, claiming that his former crewmate had been nothing but a hanger-on. After [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] broke out of the containment field Nova had sealed the group in, Nova destroyed his protective forcefield generator, allowing the Autobot to be consumed and disintegrated by the Dead Universe. {{storylink|No Exit: Dark Cybertron Chapter 6|No Exit}} Demonstrating his growing ability to manipulate the energies of the Dead Universe, Nova took the remainder of the group to his citadel, where he kept [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], whom he had been attempting to convert into a living spacebridge. In the energy of his captives' [[spark]]s, Nova Prime finally saw a chance to escape the universe. {{Storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead Are Not Enough}}

[[File:RID26 my name is optimus prime.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7|Blue blazes!]]
However, the prisoners were able to liberate Nightbeat, still under Nova's control after all these years, and he then helped them escape their cage. Confronting them, Nova Prime took the opportunity to challenge his successor to battle once more. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} Nova employed some psychological warfare on Pax, using his control of the Dead Universe to make himself shape-shift into each member of the Prime lineage to mock Orion with its tainted legacy. After Nova became a mirror image of him, Pax sank into temporary despair as Nova began gaining the upper hand. However, [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] delivered a pep talk that got Pax back on his feet, just before being blasted by Nova. Re-accepting his role as Prime and his duty to brighten that dark lineage, Optimus promptly tore Nova's arm off and finally slew his evil predecessor with a punch clear through the villain's chest. Upon expiring, Nova Prime's crumbling body reverted to its natural appearance. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}}

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to Orion, this was exactly what Shockwave had wanted all along; with Nova dead, the Dead Universe's energies were now Shockwave's to control as part of his ''true'' plan to end all life in the universe. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}} Nova's corpse had one final use to serve, though: when Optimus's team heard singing emanating from it, they realized that it contained a link back to the living universe, and used the technology of his citadel to convert his body into a space bridge home. They emerged through a portal in Brainstorm's own chest, thanks to his own living-dead link to the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

[[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]] later cited Nova Prime—along with [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel]] and [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta]]—as examples of the corrupt lineage of the Primes, to discredit Optimus and sway the opinion of the [[Council of Worlds]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 3: The Medium and the Message|The Medium and the Message}} After being removed from power and receiving a life sentence, Starscream defended his reign of Cybertron to Bumblebee by bringing up Nova Prime trying to destroy the universe multiple times. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}}

====The Functionist Universe====
In an [[Functionist Universe|alternate timeline]] where the [[Functionist Council]] overthrew Nominus Prime and ruled Cybertron, they discovered the truth behind Nova Prime's spark splicing program and declared it heresy. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
At some point during Cybertron's history, Nova Prime held the Matrix. When he inherited the talisman, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Orion Pax]] glimpsed Nova's spirit along with his other predecessors during a trip through the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]]. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:Legendscardgame-NovaPrime.jpg|right|thumb|300px|]]
The peace of Nova Prime's rule over Cybertron was shattered by the arrival of a future version of himself named [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis Prime]]. Though Nova Prime rallied [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] in an attempt to quell this future shade, Nemesis Prime triumphed over the Autobots. {{storylink|Prime Evil}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Devastation''===
[[File:Devastation-Nova-Madness.jpg|right|thumb|Insane in the Mainframe]]

Nova Prime was known as the conqueror of the [[Benzuli Expanse]], greatest Autobot to bear the Matrix, and all around great guy. He inspired [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Bad Bots]] to be good and [[Kranix (G1)|Good Bots]] to be better. It was he who led the Mission of Cybertronian Expansion, hoping to create [[Cybertronian colonies|colonies]] on cyberformed planets for future Cybertronians to inhabit, thereby preserving their culture forever.

The mission started out as a tremendous success. The crew would find uninhabited planets and using the [[Ferrotaxis]], a [[Plasma Core]], and the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon Swarm]] aboard Nova Prime's ship, the ''[[Proudstar]]'', a planet could be quickly cyberformed and ready for colonization. After [[Lithone (planet)|Lithone]] had been cyberformed, resources began to wane and the ''Proudstar'' made a supply run on a [[Unicron/Generation 1|mysterious planet]]. [[File:Devastation-Nova-Awakens.jpg|left|thumb|Nova Prime is awake, and he's mad you broke all his stuff.]] As the crew resupplied, a darkness fell over them and their ship, causing them to become corrupt and mad. Before the crew left the planet, Nova Prime pointed it in the direction of Cybertron. As the ''Proudstar'' sailed through the galaxy, the darkness began to grow in Nova Prime, with righteous pride, as opposed to once peaceful intentions, beginning to guide his mission. Nova Prime eventually began targeting inhabited planets for cyberforming, wiping out several civilizations. One of these planets was [[Earth]] where, thanks to some sabotage courtesy of a guilt-ridden [[Kranix (G1)|Kranix]], the ''Proudstar'' crashed into the surface and trapped its crew and resources in stasis. Unaware of what had transpired on his fateful mission, the populace of Cybertron declared Nova Prime as missing in action while heralding him as one of the greatest heroes their race had ever produced.

In the late 20th century, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] discovered the ''Proudstar'' and tried to use it to cyberform Earth only for his plot to be foiled by Nova's eventual successor Optimus Prime. Though Optimus had believed the ''Proudstar'' to be offline once again, some unseen power supply still thrummed deep within its bowels and, within a broken [[stasis pod]], reawakened Nova Prime! {{storylink|Transformers: Devastation|Devastation}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:Battle-Tactics-Nova-Prime.jpg|thumb|400px|I ''am'' the most powerful Prime!]]
Nova Prime participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a an Epic character who was available in the (last) February Daily Campaign, and could be recruited by collecting 20 Alpha cores, 20 Beta Cores, 20 Omega cores, and 10 cores of this character. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Frontiers''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Frontiers}}}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Nova Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
Nova Prime was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Mayhem: Enemy of my Enemy}}

An aggressive seeker of advancement of the Cybertronian race, Nova Prime observed many realities, frustrated that in none of them did Cybertronians unite to take their rightful place as leaders of the universe. To change destiny, Nova Prime instigated a [[Time Vortex]] in one universe to trap the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] and [[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]] in [[1984]], which would gradually unravel the entire fabric of reality, allowing him to conduct his own [[Great Resetting]].

Upon arriving in normal spacetime, Nova Prime retrieved the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] from a slow-time bubble and recruited them to his cause, leaving behind [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] others who refused to follow anyone but [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Bringing his new acolytes to [[inner space]], Nova Prime maintained the other Terrorcons in stasis, instead assigning [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] alone to retrieve Sinnertwin's own Megatron, preferably intact. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Nova Prime arrival}} The opposition concluded that to stop a Prime's gambit, they would need a Prime's tool, the [[Forge of Solus Prime]]. {{storylink|History Repeating}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Thrilling-30-Nemesis-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|]]
:''See: [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Toys]]''

:The ''Legends'' game event "[[Prime Evil]]", [[repurposing|repurposes]] the character model of [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|G1 Nemesis Prime]] as the future version of Nova Prime, because the [[:File:TFLegends-NemesisPrime.jpg|Nemesis Prime cards]] available in that event use the same bio as the one we previously got in "[[Nemesis Rising]]", where he was an evil clone of Optimus Prime created by [[Doctor Arkeville]]. We'll just link you to that dude's toy page, rather than reproduce it all here.
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-NovaPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|That's weird, this doesn't look anything like Glenn Close.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Nova Prime''' (Deluxe Class, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': "[[Fusion cannon|Quantum Fusion cannon]]", "[[G-Metal]] Battle Axe"

: The first of two [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusives for 2015, Nova Prime is a [[redeco]] of that same year's member incentive figure, [[Lio Convoy#Timelines 2|Lio Convoy]]. Both were retooled from ''Thrilling 30'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Deluxe|Orion Pax]] and feature a new head. Nova still comes with the blaster and axe, which can store via a 5mm peg on either side of the vehicle mode. Although not depicted on the instructions, the Quantum Fusion cannon can also peg into the hole on the larger blade of the Energon Axe.

: The foam insert in Nova Prime's box features an extra slot to store either the aforementioned incentive figure Lio Convoy, or the [[BotCon 2015]] customization class exclusive [[Galva Convoy#Timelines|Galva Convoy]], both of whom are featured in the exterior [[package art]].

: This figure officially [[Repurposing|doubles]] as ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Optimus Prime (SG)#NovaPrime|Nova Prime]]. This mold was also used to make Galva Convoy.
{{--}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:LegacyNovaPrime.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Estuans interius! Ira vehementi! '''SEPHIROTH!''']]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''Nova Prime''' (Leader Class, [[2023]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Armor pieces, 2 missile launchers, laser cannon/truck cannon barrel, 2 front wheels/armguards
:*''Known designers'': [[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBqMyy6HYxE San Diego Comic-Con 2023 Generations panel recording] at the "Memo's collection" YouTube channel</ref>

:Part of the [[Amazon_(website) | Amazon]]-exclusive ''Pre-Cybertronian War Collection'' imprint, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy: Evolution]]'' Nova Prime is a [[retool]] and [[redeco]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#S40|Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime]], itself an extensive retool of ''Siege'' [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Ultra Magnus]], based on Nova's appearance in ''[[Transformers: Devastation]]''. He transforms into a heavily-armed, futuristic truck.

:Compared to Optimus, Nova has new wings, new shoulders, a new headsculpt, and a new chest, all in "super" mode. He includes all of Optimus's accessories, redecoed into Nova's regular color scheme. Being a retool of the ''Siege'' Magnus/Optimus mold, Nova is compatible with either of the two's armor sets, and Optimus and Magnus likewise are more or less compatible with Nova's armor pieces. The stock images (seen on the right) released after his reveal show a broken sample, where the figure's right ear tip is shown to be broken.

:Like Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime, Nova Prime also features flip-out support struts on the leg armor to compensate for the back's weight. While they're hardly needed since the armor's bulk is heavy enough to support the weight, the pieces also prevent the leg armor from standing flat when folded in.

:In vehicle mode, the trailer does not actually attach to the truck in a way that keeps its wheels lined up and consequently part of the trailer/armor section risks scraping if pushed across a surface.

:Nova Prime was revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con#2023|San Diego Comic-Con]] on [[July 20]], 2023, and went up for pre-order on Amazon the following day, with [[Hasbro Pulse]] also receiving a limited supply of the figure.
{{WFCSiegeUltraMagnusMold}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:NovaPrime variousmodes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I would have waited an eternity for this… it’s Nova Prime!]]
*Nova Prime's design began life as an Optimus Prime toy concept that artist [[Don Figueroa]] had drawn for [[Hasbro]], but ultimately went unused. In fact, part of the combined "[[Super Mode]]" concept art was first seen on the [[BotCon 2005]]-exclusive cover for [[Infiltration issue 0|''Infiltration'' #0]] (and the full art was seen in ''[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]''). Figueroa credits [[Simon Furman]] for the creation of Nova Prime as a character and reused the unused Optimus Prime design for Nova as he was not aware a new character needed to be designed before receiving the script for ''Spotlight: Optimus Prime'';<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|quote=Nova was solely a @SimonFurman3 creation, I just simply repurposed a rejected Optimus design I did much earlier because I wasn’t told a new character needed to be created/designed for this issue prior to me receiving the script|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639697794750619651|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> given enough time, Figueroa would have made Nova's vehicle mode more Cybertronian.<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639753581233606656|quote=If I had advanced notice, I would have given him a more Cybertronian looking vehicle mode, preferably one without Earth looking tires. But I just straight up pulled him out of my portfolio as is (except for the head)|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> The head design, which had appeared prior as a vision in [[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]], is by [[E. J. Su]].<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639754070713057280|site=Twitter|name=Don Figueroa|quote=The head, btw is based on the one designed by @ejsu28 which appeared as a hologram in an earlier issue|year=2023|month=03|day=25}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Nova Prime''' (ノバ・プライム ''Noba Puraimu'', ノヴァ・プライム ''Nova Puraimu''), '''Nemesis Prime''' (ネメシス・プライム ''Nemeshisu Puraimu'')
*''Korean:'' '''Nova Prime''' (노바 프라임 ''Noba Peulaim'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Yào Tiān Wēi''' (耀天威, "Sky-deterrence Shine" ), '''Xīnghuáng''' (''Earth Wars'', 星皇 "Star Emperor")
*''Russian:'' '''Nova Prime''' (Нова Прайм ''Nova Praym'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{IDWPrimes nav}}
{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Dead Universe]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
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[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
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[[Category:Legacy characters]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Primes]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Nova Prime

2024-12-18T16:21:40Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Prima.png|cSize=40px|cLink=Prima|cPretty=Prima}}|autobot|decepticon|unicron}}
{{disambigm|Nova Prime (disambiguation)|Nemesis Prime (disambiguation)}}
:''Nova Prime is a [[Transformer]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:Novaprime.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[[Furmanism|Ahead, hovering, like some vast, predatory bird...]]]]
'''Nova Prime''' was the predecessor to [[Nominus Prime]]. Once the elite soldier '''Nova Major''', he led the unification of a divided [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], ascending to leadership of his people. An expansionist and a supremacist, Nova Prime believed that [[Transformer]]s were the greatest among all life forms and that they should bring their glory to the myriad of lesser races throughout the universe.

After being sucked into the [[Dead Universe]], Nova was chosen to be the host for [[Darkness (G1)|the Darkness]], an otherworldly counterpart of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] which worked by transforming the inhabitants of the Dead Universe into [[Zombie|undead wielders of anti-life]]. Upon merging, Nova was reborn as the sinister and extremely powerful '''Nemesis Prime'''. He now sees it as his mission to fulfil the Darkness' imperative by expanding the Dead Universe's hold into the living realm.

Nemesis may seem to hold sway over both his troops and the Darkness, but nothing could be further from the truth. The powerful [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] sees the Darkness as his rightful inheritance. And then, there is the fear. The fear that the Darkness has more in common with the Matrix than Nemesis is comfortable with. He feels he has earned this power, and isn't willing to see it follow its natural path. It is for this reason he must eliminate Optimus Prime. And it is for this reason he fears to face his successor.

{{bigquote|Nova was forever seeking, forever testing the limits of science and faith. He had a certain moral...ambiguity about the Cybertronian ideal.|[[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]|"[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]"}}

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]]}}

{{quote|'''I AM THE LEGACY OF PRIMUS!'''|Nova Prime|"[[Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things]]"}}

[[File:TheCrucible NovaMajorEucryphia.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.4]]
Long ago in [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron's]] past, there was a [[First Cybertronian Civil War|great war]] (no, not [[Great War (G1)|that one]]) and Nova Major fought for his tribe's leader [[Prima]]. Ten million years ago, Prima flew the coop and Nova was left as the last soldier standing at the Siege of the [[Citadel of Light]] until [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] arrived out of the wilderness. The two fought against the beast hordes and drove them back, turning the siege into a by-word for courage. [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the last Prime on the planet, was the one who brought them together in the hope that they could end the war.

Realizing the Primes were gone, Nova went out and united the tribes (starting with [[Rhinox (BW)|the beasts]]) to create a unified Cybertronian society, one for all Cybertronians and where everyone would be "[[functionism|in their place]]." Trion later claimed that this did not sound sinister at the time.

[[File:PrimusAllGoodThings-introdump.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|"I, '''Nova Prime''', stand ready to use my '''homage''' powers to enforce a pleasing '''metafictionality!'''"]]

With Trion's blessing, Nova took the mantle of Prime. {{storylink|The Crucible}} With the war over, he and his closest friends and advisors Galvatron, [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]], and [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] went on a quest in Cybertron's underground, hoping to rediscover the lost principles of their gods, the [[Guiding Hand]]. Nova found the Hand's old home: [[Crystal City]], with its guardian [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]. Omega joined Nova's crew and they worked to bring about the legendary [[Golden Age]]. {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}}

Soon, Nova's ambition grew and he secretly began planning the [[Expansion]], the Cybertronian conquest of the universe. Obsessed with the Hand's prophecy that "[['Til all are one|all shall be one]]", he intended to enslave all other lifeforms in order to "free" them from their individual wills and make them part of something greater—Nova's empire. He formed the [[Primal Vanguard]] for off-world peacekeeping and began work on the first ''[[Ark (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|Ark]]'', claiming it was meant for trade and exploration when it was in truth the first step of the Expansion. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 2: Hangers On|Hangers On}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} However, his plans hit a snag when [[Vector Sigma]]'s flow of new [[spark]]s began to cease. Fearing that his Expansion would be impossible with a limited population of Cybertronians at his disposal, Nova had a team of scientists led by [[Solomus|Tyrest]] tap into the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and use its power to create new life, a process that was covered up as a "population augmentation program" that made use of [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|"spark splicing"]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}} {{storylink|Remain in Light 3 of 5: The Divided Self|The Divided Self}} Nova Prime also wished to evolve Cybertronians in preparation for their destiny as rulers of the universe, and against Omega's wishes, he had Jhiaxus re-engineer [[Pretender Monster|six Transformers]] to be able to [[Combiner|combine]] into a being of higher intellect and strength, in hopes of uncovering the secret of [[Nexus Prime]]'s [[Enigma of Combination]]. However they were driven mad by the merging, and they devolved into [[Monstructor (G1)|a monster]] that tore through Crystal City before they were stopped. Nova didn't care about the destruction though, feeling the city had outlived its usefulness. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:DarkCybertron1 NovaOrdersEntryIntoDU.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.7|Their "Prime Directive" is the literal opposite of [[Star Trek]]'s.]]
Nova Prime and his closest comrades boarded the ''Ark'' to enact the Expansion, making their way to the [[Benzuli Expanse]] where they discovered a portal to the [[Dead Universe]]. Seeing it as just ''another'' universe to conquer, Nova ordered the ship to pass through, not worried at all by the fact that the portal itself was pulling them in. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} The ship never reappeared and the crew was presumed dead, but Nova's aggressive intentions never came to light, and the Transformers honored his memory with a statue. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}} The Matrix he once carried remained on Cybertron, hidden in the [[Underworld|Undergrid]] {{storylink|Transformation (issue)|Transformation}}, with a fake one (that everyone believed was real) left behind for his successor, [[Nominus Prime]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 1: Post Hoc|Post Hoc}} Meanwhile, his population expansion had left Cybertron with energon shortages and caused an outburst of racism, complete with a period of apartheid, against the constructed Transformers created by his spark splicing program. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}}

[[File:Escalation6 OptimusNemesisInfraspace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|[[Lightbright (G1)|Lite-Brite]], Lite-Brite, make a face to glow at night!]]
The Prime was thought dead but countless years later, when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] downloaded himself into [[infraspace]] to survive an attack from [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], he sensed the presence of Nova Prime... and was filled with an incredible sense of dread. {{storylink|Escalation issue 6|Escalation #6}} These feelings led Optimus Prime to seek information from Omega Supreme, and shared with him his belief that Nova might still be alive, and his feelings of dread. In turn, Omega told Optimus of Nova's story, and later learned of Monstructor. Optimus was left with the knowledge that the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] lineage had been corrupt from the start, and it gave the Autobot leader something to ponder about. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}}

It was later learned that Optimus Prime's assessment was right: Nova Prime was still functioning, though in a strange half-dead state in the [[Dead Universe]], and was now the fearsome figure known as Nemesis Prime, powered by the almighty mind-altering anti-Matrix, the [[Darkness (G1)|Darkness]], which ruled the Dead Universe. His grand plan, the Expansion, was now intended to merge the Dead Universe with the real one, allowing him to both return home at long last ''and'' direct the merged universe into a new, more ''ordered'' era.

[[File:Jhiaxusnemesisprimedevastation.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.3|Not even a toy yet and he's already got a [[black repaint]].]]
He already had an outpost and minions on [[Gorlam Prime]], ready to direct his coming Expansion. He had [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] captured by [[Sports Car Patrol|some of his minions]] and programmed {{storylink|Spotlight: Nightbeat}} to assassinate Optimus Prime at a set time, {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}} as he subconsciously knew the Darkness would behave like the Matrix and jump from him to Optimus if given the chance. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

With that secured, Nemesis Prime decided that the Expansion was ready to begin. He dispatched [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a mission to secure [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], kill the Autobots guarding him, and bring the [[Pretender]] to the Dead Universe. Galvatron secured Thunderwing, but spared the Autobots, viewing it as a small rebellion against Nova. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}} After observing the [[Reaper]]s about to destroy [[Earth]], he ordered Galvatron there to stop them, since the Earth was part of their expansion plan. {{storylink|Devastation issue 3|Devastation #3}} Galvatron performed his task well, but Prime remarked to Jhiaxus that he was aware that Galvatron had his own agendas and secrets. {{storylink|Devastation issue 6|Devastation #6}}

After [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] secured the [[Nega-Core]] and activated its guardian, Nemesis Prime initiated the Expansion with the rest of the [[Dead Universe]] crew. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}}

Nemesis Prime was found by Jhiaxus on the remains of the ''Ark'', thinking back on old times and planning for the future. Upon receiving the latest intelligence on both Cyclonus and Nightbeat, he dismissed the former and requested Jhiaxus take care of the Nightbeat situation personally. When Jhiaxus reported Nightbeat's death, Nemesis was unmoved, deciding he would take over Nightbeat's mission and deal with Optimus Prime himself. {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}}

[[File:DarknessNemesis.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|He's an 8.5 on the Kirby Dot Scale!]]
Nemesis Prime attacked the prison facility on [[Garrus-9]] while Optimus Prime was inspecting it. The Autobot defense forces were helpless against him: Nemesis was immune to all their firepower and used his deadly decaying touch to instantly snuff out their lives. Seeing that conflict was futile, Optimus Prime ordered all the defenders to retreat, then faced Nemesis Prime directly. Nemesis gloated about the upcoming Expansion, then revealed to Optimus Prime the nature of the Darkness and channeled it as a weapon against Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Spotlight: Doubledealer}}

Unfortunately for Nemesis, the Darkness ''did'' want to leap to Optimus as he had feared, and it would do so if he either used it or touched Optimus. Enraged, Nemesis backed off and resorted to firing a torrent of normal energy. Optimus was able to withstand the blast however, but their fight ended abruptly when Nemesis, distracted by the battle, was shot in the back and killed by Galvatron, as part of his plan to claim the Darkness for himself. Though Optimus Prime soon destroyed the Darkness-infused Galvatron (or so he thought), Optimus remarked that he could not mourn his predecessor, noting that Nova Prime was long dead. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

[[File:HoD3 NemesisPrimeRevealed.jpg|thumb|right|Now filled with Black Moon clan essence.]]
Nemesis's body was taken back to Cybertron, where [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] took custody of it and began studying it in his lab in hopes of finding out more about the Dead Universe. He eventually came to speculate that Nemesis had not actually perished, but rather, that his life-essence had returned to the Dead Universe. What Brainstorm was ''not'' aware of, however, was the bolt of energy that had leapt from Nemesis's corpse to his own body, leaving him in a living-dead state of his own. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

Brainstorm's supposition was proven correct when Nemesis Prime reappeared on the planet [[Dykayra]], emerging from a portal to the Dead Universe to confront Galvatron. His wounds pulsating with dark energy, he now served the greater being of which the Darkness had always been but a small part: the [[D-Void]]. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 3|Heart of Darkness #3}} Apparently seeking to retake the Darkness from Galvatron, Nemesis briefly battled him and his army, brushing off their firepower and destroyed several of Galvatron's minions by devouring their energy. He then mutated into a gigantic, horrible monster, seemingly falling under the D-Void's direct control in the process, and continued the fight against Galvatron. In the end, Galvatron was able to summon his army and force the malformed Nemesis Prime back through the portal, which he then destroyed. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}}

[[File:FinestHour NovaGalvatronExitMegatron.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|"Hey, what's the big idea? Move it, chowdah-head!"{{-}}"''Whoob whoob whoob''!"]]
As it transpired, however, Nemesis had not sought to reclaim the Darkness, but had rather only been used a pawn by D-Void in its attempts to motivate Galvatron into using the Darkness to destroy Cybertron. Following the D-Void's destruction and Galvatron's own consignment to the Dead Universe, Nemesis was at last free of its influence, and reverted to being "Nova Prime" in name and appearance once more. Working with Galvatron, he made contact with Jhiaxus and his old pupil [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] in the living universe, and began an apparent plot to conquer Cybertron and return it to Nova's leadership. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Initially hoping to use the [[space bridge]] of Shockwave's [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]] as transport out of the Dead Universe, {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} Nova and Galvatron were forced to use Megatron's personal space bridge when that plan faltered. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}} However, as Nova was about to emerge in the living universe, the united forces of [[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]]'s Autobots and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons attacked Shockwave's lair, and in the chaos, Nova was punched by [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] back into the Dead Universe.

[[File:NoExit NovaAndOrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.6]]
Trapped yet again, Nova Prime directed his rage upon a group of intruders who had entered the Dead Universe while he had been occupied: Orion Pax and his band. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}} Amused with Orion's choice to no longer call himself a Prime, Nova proceeded to mock Cyclonus, claiming that his former crewmate had been nothing but a hanger-on. After [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] broke out of the containment field Nova had sealed the group in, Nova destroyed his protective forcefield generator, allowing the Autobot to be consumed and disintegrated by the Dead Universe. {{storylink|No Exit: Dark Cybertron Chapter 6|No Exit}} Demonstrating his growing ability to manipulate the energies of the Dead Universe, Nova took the remainder of the group to his citadel, where he kept [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], whom he had been attempting to convert into a living spacebridge. In the energy of his captives' [[spark]]s, Nova Prime finally saw a chance to escape the universe. {{Storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead Are Not Enough}}

[[File:RID26 my name is optimus prime.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7|Blue blazes!]]
However, the prisoners were able to liberate Nightbeat, still under Nova's control after all these years, and he then helped them escape their cage. Confronting them, Nova Prime took the opportunity to challenge his successor to battle once more. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} Nova employed some psychological warfare on Pax, using his control of the Dead Universe to make himself shape-shift into each member of the Prime lineage to mock Orion with its tainted legacy. After Nova became a mirror image of him, Pax sank into temporary despair as Nova began gaining the upper hand. However, [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] delivered a pep talk that got Pax back on his feet, just before being blasted by Nova. Re-accepting his role as Prime and his duty to brighten that dark lineage, Optimus promptly tore Nova's arm off and finally slew his evil predecessor with a punch clear through the villain's chest. Upon expiring, Nova Prime's crumbling body reverted to its natural appearance. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}}

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to Orion, this was exactly what Shockwave had wanted all along; with Nova dead, the Dead Universe's energies were now Shockwave's to control as part of his ''true'' plan to end all life in the universe. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}} Nova's corpse had one final use to serve, though: when Optimus's team heard singing emanating from it, they realized that it contained a link back to the living universe, and used the technology of his citadel to convert his body into a space bridge home. They emerged through a portal in Brainstorm's own chest, thanks to his own living-dead link to the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

[[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]] later cited Nova Prime—along with [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel]] and [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta]]—as examples of the corrupt lineage of the Primes, to discredit Optimus and sway the opinion of the [[Council of Worlds]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 3: The Medium and the Message|The Medium and the Message}} After being removed from power and receiving a life sentence, Starscream defended his reign of Cybertron to Bumblebee by bringing up Nova Prime trying to destroy the universe multiple times. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}}

====The Functionist Universe====
In an [[Functionist Universe|alternate timeline]] where the [[Functionist Council]] overthrew Nominus Prime and ruled Cybertron, they discovered the truth behind Nova Prime's spark splicing program and declared it heresy. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
At some point during Cybertron's history, Nova Prime held the Matrix. When he inherited the talisman, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Orion Pax]] glimpsed Nova's spirit along with his other predecessors during a trip through the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]]. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:Legendscardgame-NovaPrime.jpg|right|thumb|300px|]]
The peace of Nova Prime's rule over Cybertron was shattered by the arrival of a future version of himself named [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis Prime]]. Though Nova Prime rallied [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] in an attempt to quell this future shade, Nemesis Prime triumphed over the Autobots. {{storylink|Prime Evil}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Devastation''===
[[File:Devastation-Nova-Madness.jpg|right|thumb|Insane in the Mainframe]]

Nova Prime was known as the conqueror of the [[Benzuli Expanse]], greatest Autobot to bear the Matrix, and all around great guy. He inspired [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Bad Bots]] to be good and [[Kranix (G1)|Good Bots]] to be better. It was he who led the Mission of Cybertronian Expansion, hoping to create [[Cybertronian colonies|colonies]] on cyberformed planets for future Cybertronians to inhabit, thereby preserving their culture forever.

The mission started out as a tremendous success. The crew would find uninhabited planets and using the [[Ferrotaxis]], a [[Plasma Core]], and the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon Swarm]] aboard Nova Prime's ship, the ''[[Proudstar]]'', a planet could be quickly cyberformed and ready for colonization. After [[Lithone (planet)|Lithone]] had been cyberformed, resources began to wane and the ''Proudstar'' made a supply run on a [[Unicron/Generation 1|mysterious planet]]. [[File:Devastation-Nova-Awakens.jpg|left|thumb|Nova Prime is awake, and he's mad you broke all his stuff.]] As the crew resupplied, a darkness fell over them and their ship, causing them to become corrupt and mad. Before the crew left the planet, Nova Prime pointed it in the direction of Cybertron. As the ''Proudstar'' sailed through the galaxy, the darkness began to grow in Nova Prime, with righteous pride, as opposed to once peaceful intentions, beginning to guide his mission. Nova Prime eventually began targeting inhabited planets for cyberforming, wiping out several civilizations. One of these planets was [[Earth]] where, thanks to some sabotage courtesy of a guilt-ridden [[Kranix (G1)|Kranix]], the ''Proudstar'' crashed into the surface and trapped its crew and resources in stasis. Unaware of what had transpired on his fateful mission, the populace of Cybertron declared Nova Prime as missing in action while heralding him as one of the greatest heroes their race had ever produced.

In the late 20th century, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] discovered the ''Proudstar'' and tried to use it to cyberform Earth only for his plot to be foiled by Nova's eventual successor Optimus Prime. Though Optimus had believed the ''Proudstar'' to be offline once again, some unseen power supply still thrummed deep within its bowels and, within a broken [[stasis pod]], reawakened Nova Prime! {{storylink|Transformers: Devastation|Devastation}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:Battle-Tactics-Nova-Prime.jpg|thumb|400px|I ''am'' the most powerful Prime!]]
Nova Prime participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a an Epic character who was available in the (last) February Daily Campaign, and could be recruited by collecting 20 Alpha cores, 20 Beta Cores, 20 Omega cores, and 10 cores of this character. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Frontiers''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Frontiers}}}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Nova Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
Nova Prime was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Vector Prime arrival}}

An aggressive seeker of advancement of the Cybertronian race, Nova Prime observed many realities, frustrated that in none of them did Cybertronians unite to take their rightful place as leaders of the universe. To change destiny, Nova Prime instigated a [[Time Vortex]] in one universe to trap the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] and [[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]] in [[1984]], which would gradually unravel the entire fabric of reality, allowing him to conduct his own [[Great Resetting]].

Upon arriving in normal spacetime, Nova Prime retrieved the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] from a slow-time bubble and recruited them to his cause, leaving behind [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] others who refused to follow anyone but [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Bringing his new acolytes to [[inner space]], Nova Prime maintained the other Terrorcons in stasis, instead assigning [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] alone to retrieve Sinnertwin's own Megatron, preferably intact. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Nova Prime arrival}} The opposition concluded that to stop a Prime's gambit, they would need a Prime's tool, the [[Forge of Solus Prime]]. {{storylink|History Repeating}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Thrilling-30-Nemesis-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|]]
:''See: [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Toys]]''

:The ''Legends'' game event "[[Prime Evil]]", [[repurposing|repurposes]] the character model of [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|G1 Nemesis Prime]] as the future version of Nova Prime, because the [[:File:TFLegends-NemesisPrime.jpg|Nemesis Prime cards]] available in that event use the same bio as the one we previously got in "[[Nemesis Rising]]", where he was an evil clone of Optimus Prime created by [[Doctor Arkeville]]. We'll just link you to that dude's toy page, rather than reproduce it all here.
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-NovaPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|That's weird, this doesn't look anything like Glenn Close.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Nova Prime''' (Deluxe Class, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': "[[Fusion cannon|Quantum Fusion cannon]]", "[[G-Metal]] Battle Axe"

: The first of two [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusives for 2015, Nova Prime is a [[redeco]] of that same year's member incentive figure, [[Lio Convoy#Timelines 2|Lio Convoy]]. Both were retooled from ''Thrilling 30'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Deluxe|Orion Pax]] and feature a new head. Nova still comes with the blaster and axe, which can store via a 5mm peg on either side of the vehicle mode. Although not depicted on the instructions, the Quantum Fusion cannon can also peg into the hole on the larger blade of the Energon Axe.

: The foam insert in Nova Prime's box features an extra slot to store either the aforementioned incentive figure Lio Convoy, or the [[BotCon 2015]] customization class exclusive [[Galva Convoy#Timelines|Galva Convoy]], both of whom are featured in the exterior [[package art]].

: This figure officially [[Repurposing|doubles]] as ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Optimus Prime (SG)#NovaPrime|Nova Prime]]. This mold was also used to make Galva Convoy.
{{--}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:LegacyNovaPrime.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Estuans interius! Ira vehementi! '''SEPHIROTH!''']]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''Nova Prime''' (Leader Class, [[2023]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Armor pieces, 2 missile launchers, laser cannon/truck cannon barrel, 2 front wheels/armguards
:*''Known designers'': [[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBqMyy6HYxE San Diego Comic-Con 2023 Generations panel recording] at the "Memo's collection" YouTube channel</ref>

:Part of the [[Amazon_(website) | Amazon]]-exclusive ''Pre-Cybertronian War Collection'' imprint, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy: Evolution]]'' Nova Prime is a [[retool]] and [[redeco]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#S40|Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime]], itself an extensive retool of ''Siege'' [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Ultra Magnus]], based on Nova's appearance in ''[[Transformers: Devastation]]''. He transforms into a heavily-armed, futuristic truck.

:Compared to Optimus, Nova has new wings, new shoulders, a new headsculpt, and a new chest, all in "super" mode. He includes all of Optimus's accessories, redecoed into Nova's regular color scheme. Being a retool of the ''Siege'' Magnus/Optimus mold, Nova is compatible with either of the two's armor sets, and Optimus and Magnus likewise are more or less compatible with Nova's armor pieces. The stock images (seen on the right) released after his reveal show a broken sample, where the figure's right ear tip is shown to be broken.

:Like Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime, Nova Prime also features flip-out support struts on the leg armor to compensate for the back's weight. While they're hardly needed since the armor's bulk is heavy enough to support the weight, the pieces also prevent the leg armor from standing flat when folded in.

:In vehicle mode, the trailer does not actually attach to the truck in a way that keeps its wheels lined up and consequently part of the trailer/armor section risks scraping if pushed across a surface.

:Nova Prime was revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con#2023|San Diego Comic-Con]] on [[July 20]], 2023, and went up for pre-order on Amazon the following day, with [[Hasbro Pulse]] also receiving a limited supply of the figure.
{{WFCSiegeUltraMagnusMold}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:NovaPrime variousmodes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I would have waited an eternity for this… it’s Nova Prime!]]
*Nova Prime's design began life as an Optimus Prime toy concept that artist [[Don Figueroa]] had drawn for [[Hasbro]], but ultimately went unused. In fact, part of the combined "[[Super Mode]]" concept art was first seen on the [[BotCon 2005]]-exclusive cover for [[Infiltration issue 0|''Infiltration'' #0]] (and the full art was seen in ''[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]''). Figueroa credits [[Simon Furman]] for the creation of Nova Prime as a character and reused the unused Optimus Prime design for Nova as he was not aware a new character needed to be designed before receiving the script for ''Spotlight: Optimus Prime'';<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|quote=Nova was solely a @SimonFurman3 creation, I just simply repurposed a rejected Optimus design I did much earlier because I wasn’t told a new character needed to be created/designed for this issue prior to me receiving the script|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639697794750619651|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> given enough time, Figueroa would have made Nova's vehicle mode more Cybertronian.<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639753581233606656|quote=If I had advanced notice, I would have given him a more Cybertronian looking vehicle mode, preferably one without Earth looking tires. But I just straight up pulled him out of my portfolio as is (except for the head)|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> The head design, which had appeared prior as a vision in [[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]], is by [[E. J. Su]].<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639754070713057280|site=Twitter|name=Don Figueroa|quote=The head, btw is based on the one designed by @ejsu28 which appeared as a hologram in an earlier issue|year=2023|month=03|day=25}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Nova Prime''' (ノバ・プライム ''Noba Puraimu'', ノヴァ・プライム ''Nova Puraimu''), '''Nemesis Prime''' (ネメシス・プライム ''Nemeshisu Puraimu'')
*''Korean:'' '''Nova Prime''' (노바 프라임 ''Noba Peulaim'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Yào Tiān Wēi''' (耀天威, "Sky-deterrence Shine" ), '''Xīnghuáng''' (''Earth Wars'', 星皇 "Star Emperor")
*''Russian:'' '''Nova Prime''' (Нова Прайм ''Nova Praym'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{IDWPrimes nav}}
{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Dead Universe]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Legacy characters]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Primes]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Alpha Trion/Generation 1

2024-12-18T16:20:41Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */ Entering the Power of the Primes event

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-AlphaTrion.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Alpha Trion (G1)|cPretty=Alpha Trion}}|autobot|autobotg2|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Alpha Trion}}
:''Alpha Trion is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-Legendsartclean.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm sure I'm just a wise old sage and nothing any more complicated or cosmic than that!]]

'''Alpha Trion''' (aka '''A-3''') is one of the oldest living Transformers, and with that age comes a nuanced understanding of his race and their place within the universe. In his youth, he was instrumental in establishing [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] as an independent galactic power, and in his older years, he has found a comfortable role in serving as advisor to other Transformers.

Though Alpha Trion rarely takes part in the battles of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], he is firmly on the side of the Autobots and serves as a mentor and guide, especially to [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He is an enigmatic old robot, and in many realities he is the guardian of [[Vector Sigma]] and the custodian of its [[Key to Vector Sigma|circuit key]]. His sage-like manner paints him in almost a mystic tone, and possible connections between Alpha Trion, [[Primus]], and the history of Cybertron itself have boosted him into legendary status.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[John Stephenson]] (English), [[Corey Burton]] (English, "War Dawn"), [[Tony Pope]] (English, "Forever Is a Long Time Coming"), [[Osamu Saka]] (Japanese), [[Toshiro Ishii]] (Japanese, "War Dawn"), [[Hiroshi Naka]] (Japanese, "The Rebirth")|[[Chen Chun]] (Chinese), [[Wolfgang Mascher]] (German, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2" and "The Rebirth, Part 2"), [[Ramón Rocabayera]] (Spain-Spanish), [[Alejandro Abdalah]] (Latin American Spanish), [[François Leccia]] (European French, "The Search for Alpha Trion"), Unknown (European French, "The Key to Vector Sigma" episodes & "War Dawn"), [[Albert Augier]] (European French, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French, "The Rebirth" episodes), [[Magalhães Graça]] (Portuguese), [[Jomeri Pozzoli]] (Portuguese, "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2")}}

[[File:YoungA3.jpg|left|thumb|Silverbolt never misses a chance to check out A-3's rugged mustache.]]
11 million years ago, a mechanoid named A-3 was part of the [[Autobot Rebellion|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s on a [[Cybertron (planet)|factory world]], creating a device called the [[Coder Remote]] that would stop their [[Dark Guardian]]s. Due to a timerift created by Quintessons from the future, he was briefly pulled from his position in the [[Empty Lands]] into the year 2006. Fortunately, his partner [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] managed to start the rebellion as scheduled, and A-3 was soon returned by future [[Autobot]]s to fulfill his role in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

[[File:Alphatrionagesbackwards.jpg|thumb|He grew a beard, picked up the Matrix, shaved his beard, and then built Optimus, apparently.]]
Years later, he would be given the [[Matrix of Leadership]] by the dying [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], but Alpha Trion himself did not become Autobot leader. It would sit in his possession, unused, until the coming of the next Autobot leader. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} In the meantime, Alpha Trion developed plans to rebuild Autobots to better combat the escalating [[Decepticon]] menace.

The next Autobot leader would actually come to ''him'' when a [[Aerialbot (G1)|group of time-travelers]] lugged a dying youth named Orion Pax to his repair center. Reluctant at first, Alpha Trion sensed a strong spirit in Orion Pax, and decided to rebuild him entirely... into [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]. When Prime asked if Alpha Trion could rebuild his fallen girlfriend Ariel as well, Alpha Trion agreed, and mused that [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] would be a good name for a female warrior. {{storylink|War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn}}

[[File:AlphaTrion.jpg|left|thumb|Alpha Trion has secret liquor stashes in the strangest of places.]]

Over the intervening millennia, Alpha Trion's two greatest creations, whether by design or coincidence, forgot their relationship to the ancient Autobot. Five million years after his creation, Optimus Prime was lost when his spacecraft crash-landed on prehistoric Earth, but Alpha Trion kept in contact with Elita One, acting as a sagely advisor to her team of [[Female Autobots]] as they spent the following four million years stealing [[energon]] from [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. Eventually, in the Earth year 1985, Shockwave caught the Female Autobots in the act and tracked them back to their headquarters, prompting Elita One to consult with Alpha Trion on a course of action. Trion suggested they move their headquarters, telling Elita to scout for a new location alone, but in the event that she encountered the Decepticons, warned her not to use her life-draining time-freezing power. Alas, Elita was captured, and used by the Decepticons to lure Optimus Prime into a trap. To save her beloved's life, Elita used her fatal power, and the Autobot leader was forced to track Alpha Trion to [[Alpha Trion's base‎|his secret base]] in hopes that he could save her. Alpha Trion repaired her to the best of his ability, but revealed to Optimus Prime that only Prime could save Elita by interfacing to her with his power filter. An astonished Optimus Prime stated that only his creator could know that! {{storylink|The Search for Alpha Trion}}

[[File:Ktvs prime and trion.jpg|thumb|"Hey"]]

A short time later, while he was looking for a [[10.2 ultra-drill|misplaced tool]], Alpha Trion was attacked in his workshop by [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] and his Decepticons, who demanded that he hand over the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]. Trion pled ignorance, but Megatron knew better, and the elderly Autobot was soon overpowered while the Decepticons made off with the key. Alpha Trion was rescued from the chunk of metal the Decepticons left him stuck in by Optimus Prime and the Autobots, and after his injuries were repaired by [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], he journeyed with them into Cybertron's depths, leading the way to Vector Sigma's chamber. Their way, however, was barred by [[Centurion droid]]s that Megatron used the Key to command, and Alpha Trion helped reactivate some discarded worker robots to fight the droids off. The droids had done their job, however, and prevented the Autobots from reaching Megatron before he used Vector Sigma to bring his newest Decepticons, the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] to life. To combat these new land-based Decepticons, Optimus Prime hit on the idea of creating some new aerial Autobots, and Alpha Trion set to work reconstructing some Cybertronian aircraft. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} When the work was done, Alpha Trion professed that he had another key to Vector Sigma "on him," and he would use it to reactivate the computer so that it could bring the jets to life. His "key," however, was his own life force: as a first generation product of Vector Sigma, his [[computation matrix]] could interface with the computer and bring it back online, at the cost of his own continued existence. Optimus Prime tried to stop him, but Alpha Trion refused to listen, reminding Prime that he was his creator and insisting that the jets were more important than he was. Prime relented, and Alpha Trion merged with Vector Sigma, which activated and brought the new [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] to life. Before Prime and the Autobots departed for Earth, Alpha Trion spoke to them through Vector Sigma, warning them of a fact merging with the computer had revealed to him: on Earth, the Key to Vector Sigma had even greater power. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

Many years later, when the [[Hate Plague]] was raging throughout the universe in the year 2006, Optimus Prime entered the Matrix to consult the ancient Autobots within on a possible cure. Alpha Trion was the first Prime spoke to, but he had no information to give, save a warning that Prime should take care on his journey into the Matrix, lest he be unable to return. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

The following year, after the Decepticons stole the [[Key to the Plasma Energy Chamber]], Optimus Prime used the Matrix to reactivate Vector Sigma so that he could converse with Alpha Trion, hoping that the old sage knew something more about what was going on. Alpha Trion revealed to Prime that Vector Sigma had ''allowed'' [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] to become aware of the key's existence, as the chamber was key to the dawning of a new [[Golden Age]] for Cybertron... as was the merging of an [[Cerebros (G1)|Autobot]]'s life with that of a [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|human]]'s. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}} Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus one final time, urging him to preserve the key at all costs, as it would be vital in fulfilling Vector Sigma's prophecy. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 3}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in the Japanese timeline as described above, except that the events of 2006 take place instead in 2010, and "The Rebirth" does not occur. Japanese continuity inserts many additional stories into the timeline.}}

=====''Generations Selects Special Comic''=====
The consciousness of [[Primus]] observed Beta and A3 drive the Quintessons off of their planet. {{storylink|Generations Selects Special Comic Finale|Finale}}

=====''The Headmasters'' cartoon=====
{{voiceactor|[[Masaharu Satō]] (Japanese)}}

[[File:AlphaTrionGhost.jpg|thumb|Alpha Trion's Spooooooky Ghost]]
In the year 2011, one year after Optimus Prime released the energy of the Matrix to cure the Hate Plague, Vector Sigma began to destabilize as a result. Optimus Prime voyaged into the planet's depths to try and bring the computer back under control, but the mission seemed doomed to failure, as he did not have the Matrix to help him. While the other Autobots searched Earth for the Matrix, which had been hidden away to recharge, the spectral form of Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus Prime to help lead him through the many dangers blocking the path to Vector Sigma's chamber. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}} When they finally reached their goal, however, it turned out the Decepticons had beaten them there. [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] was not far behind, with the recovered Matrix in his grasp, and when the young Autobot arrived, Alpha Trion instructed him to hold the talisman aloft. Trion's ethereal form flowed into the Matrix, completing its recharging process and transforming [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] back into Rodimus Prime, who joined Optimus in thrashing the Decepticons. {{storylink|Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime}}

=====Train Wars=====
The incorporeal Alpha Trion sensed a threat to [[Vector Sigma]] from inside the Matrix, and rematerialized on the physical plane to address the problem. He discovered [[The Fallen]] attempting to steal and assume the power of Vector Sigma for himself. Downplaying his own importance, Alpha Trion attempted to advise [[Shouki]] and the other Autobot defenders present. {{storylink|Train Wars}}

Upon recovering Vector Sigma from the Fallen, Alpha Trion once again sacrificed his physical form to merge with Vector Sigma, giving it the drive necessary to reformat Shouki into a "train bazooka" mode, powerful enough to defeat the Fallen. {{storylink|Train Wars 2}}

=====''G-2'' story pages=====
[[File:G2StoryPageReconfigurationMatrix1.jpg|thumb|left]]
When Optimus Prime was fatally injured in battle with Megatron, the spirits of Alpha Trion and former leaders residing within the Matrix activated its [[Reconfiguration Matrix]] mechanism, reviving Prime as Battle Convoy. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 5}}

=====''Legends'' comic=====
Alpha Trion and the Matrix—possibly the Reconfiguration Matrix again—had a hand in Rodimus Prime's transformation into a [[Micromaster]]. {{storylink|Transformers 2015 Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter|Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter}}

To counter the rise of [[Galvatron II]], Battle Convoy contacted the spirit of Alpha Trion within the Matrix and requested his help in reviving [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. Locating Magnus among the spirits of former leaders residing in the Matrix, Trion convinced him he was needed in the world of the living and entered his chest, using his unique connection with the Matrix to act as a substitute Matrix and bring both himself and Magnus back to life. Trion was restored in a tiny body that popped out of Magnus's chest. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#Resurrection Chapter|Resurrection Chapter}} Granted the ability to predict the future by his merging with Vector Sigma, Alpha Trion then foresaw that Megatron would return to his evil ways in the [[Legends World]] he had settled in. Seeking to stop this, the sage himself traveled to this other universe, using his diminutive body to disguise himself as a janitor at the [[Axalon Trading Company]] while waiting for Megatron to make his move. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

When the employees of Axalon Co. got curious about Metroplex—who'd ended up as their new office building after getting summoned into the Legends Universe—Alpha Trion taught them about the city-bot's past. He accidentally blew his cover by explaining he knew this much because he was from "the other world", though fortunately(?) the employees wrongly assumed he meant the world of the dead. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter|The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter}} Alpha Trion was present when Megatron made his move, teaming up with [[Megatron (Armada)|Armada Megatron]] to conquer the Legends World. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter|The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter}} In response, he cast his disguise aside and used an [[10.2 ultra-drill|ultra-drill]] to summon Ultra Magnus from their home universe. At first Magnus told Trion to get back in his chest, but the sage assured him he no longer needed Trion's Matrix power but had to rely on his own strength. After the Megatrons were defeated by Magnus, Alpha Trion confirmed to a curious [[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] that he could indeed predict the future, and had had a vision of the imminent arrival of [[Nightbird (G1)|Nightbird Shadow]], [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]], and [[Slipstream (Animated)|Slipstream]] as well. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

Alpha Trion later confirmed to a curious Rattrap that his new body was a [[Mini-Con]]-type one, though he got defensive when asked to display the third weapon mode Mini-Cons are supposed to have. Transforming into his hovercar mode, he claimed it was ''clearly'' a shield and displayed its usefulness by shielding Ultra Magnus from a barrage of lasers. Unfortunately his size meant he only took a fraction of the blasts, and Magnus was gunned down. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Alpha Trion Chapter|Alpha Trion Chapter}} Armada Megatron later bought an Ultra Magnus toy in order to examine it for the Autobot's weaknesses, defending his purchase of a non-Mini-Con toy to [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] by pointing out the Alpha Trion accessory. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Armada Megatron Chapter|Armada Megatron Chapter}}

Thanks to Alpha Trion's premonitions, the Autobots were prepared for Slipstream's arrival in the Legends World and easily defeated her. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 16|Bonus Edition Vol. 16}} While doing janitor work at [[Tera-Kura Co.]], he overheard Megatron talk about his plan to steal energy from people, and summoned [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] into the Legends World as reinforcement. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 17|Bonus Edition Vol. 17}} When [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] attempted to sacrifice himself to prevent [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] from destroying the Legends World, Alpha Trion opened a portal to Starscream's home universe and brought forth [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]] to stop him. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 18|Bonus Edition Vol. 18}}

Alpha Trion was later contacted by the [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] of his home universe, who requested to be brought to the Legends World. {{storylink|LG19 Sprung Prologue}} Following Springer's arrival, Trion had his ultra-drill stolen by a jealous [[Tigatron]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 19|Bonus Edition Vol. 19}} He was later caught up in Megatron's attack on the city when the Decepticon briefly returned to being Galvatron. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 23|Bonus Edition Vol. 23}} Aware that Alpha Trion contained the power of the Matrix, [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] had [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] capture the sage as part of a bid to take over Tera-Kura, but he was freed when the Matrix energies overloaded and exploded Scourge's [[transtector]]. He went on to teach Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]] how to be proper janitors. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 26|Bonus Edition Vol. 26}} When Tera-Kura purchased Metroplex from Axalon, Alpha Trion joined the Decepticon company so that he could stay with Metroplex. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 31|Bonus Edition Vol. 31}}

Alpha Trion was pretty careless with his ultra-drill; after Tigatron, it was also stolen by [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 33|Bonus Edition Vol. 33}} and [[Weirdwolf (G1)|Weirdwolf]] to serve their own needs. {{storylink|LG-43 Trypticon Project Chapter}} He was present when [[Ginrai (human)|God Ginrai]] tried to force his way into Tera-Kura Co., {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 42|Bonus Edition Vol. 42}} and later had his drill nabbed again by [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Magna Convoy)|Bonus Edition Vol. EX}} When Weirdwolf's Decepticon faction attacked Tera-Kura to nab Metroplex's [[transformation cog]], Alpha Trion did his best to fight off [[Apeface]]. {{storylink|LG43 Trypticon Mobilization Chapter: Decepticon Civil War|Decepticon Civil War}} Weirdwolf used the cog to rebuild [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]], so Trion responded by summoning [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]], who had previously bested the monster. Following Trypticon's defeat, he also called for the [[Disaster Relief Team]] to rebuild [[Akihabara]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 43|Bonus Edition Vol. 43}} Alpha Trion was later kidnapped by [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]], [[Triggerhappy (G1)|Triggerhappy]] and [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]], who forced him to summon the six [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] partners lost in the G1 World. He did as instructed only to find that the Targetmasters were emitting lethal amounts of [[plasma energy]], so he instead put the drill in reverse and scattered the six across the Legends World for everyone's safety. {{storylink|Mutant Targetmaster Birth Chapter}}

During a battle between Ultra Magnus and [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]], Alpha Trion entered Magnus's chest to lend him his power. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 50|Bonus Edition Vol. 50}} He contacted the [[Wreckers]] for help when the city came under attack from a [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]]-controlled Windblade. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} During the battle with [[Majin Zarak]], whom fate decreed could not be destroyed, Alpha Trion hooked his ultra-drill up to [[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]'s Drill Base in order to generate a giant portal that Zarak could be pushed through. Megatron then had him open portals all over the Legends World so the doomed world's citizens could be evacuated to the G1 World. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two}}

====''Wings Universe''====
{{Wingsnote}}

[[File:BattleLines6-stasishibernationpods.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67]]

After the ''[[Van De Graaff]]'' was shot down on [[Beta-Nine]], the proemial Alpha Unit of the [[Elite Guard]] managed to retrieve its cargo. The [[Matrix of Leadership|mysterious item]] was then delivered by [[Magnum]] to its custodian, Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Wings of Honor}}

Over the next ten years, the Decepticon insurrection became more fierce. Councilor Magnum continued to champion his Elite Guard, a series of strike teams dedicated to hunting down the [[Decepticon Warlord]]s to cut the many heads off the serpent. Councilor Alpha Trion, however, favored his own Prime Initiative, a general of sorts who would oversee the entire Autobot army as a unified force against the Decepticons. {{Storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 2}}

Despite their political differences, Alpha Trion and Magnum worked together as the situation called for it. When a group of civilian scientists and historians needed demolitions assistance at a dig site in [[Median]], Alpha Trion requested the help of Magnum's Elite Guard for the job. Of course, he neglected to mention some of the finer points of the mission, but such is politics. {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

After [[Dion (G1)|Dion]] and [[Magnum]] were injured in a Decepticon attack, they were taken to Alpha Trion. He was only able to save one of them, rebuilding the survivor into [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. As the war drained Cybertron's energy to dangerously low levels, Optimus left the planet on a mission to find more energy. Alpha Trion prepared stasis pods within which most of the remaining Autobot population would hibernate. As they placed the other Autobots in the pods, he warned [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] that remaining online during periods of low energy as he intended to do would greatly accelerate the aging process. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 6}}

When Optimus Prime and the other Autobots aboard the Ark were considered lost, Alpha Trion set about uniting the divided Cybertronian through other means. Using the remains of a Decepticon deep-space shuttle, he built [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] and brought him to life with the power of Vector Sigma, instructing the super-computer to imbue him with a need to unite Cybertron under one banner. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 44|''Wings Universe'' Jhiaxus profile}}

Centuries later, after the [[Great Transformation]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] dedicated himself to interfacing with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] in search of guidance from [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]]. After many failed attempts, Cheetor finally succeeded, instead meeting with Alpha Trion. Trion told Cheetor of his true destiny: to lead Cybertron into a new age of peace. Cheetor accepted his destiny and thus merged with Alpha Trion, becoming Alpha Trizer. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag|Alpha Trizer's profile}} In [[2984]] C.E. as Alpha Trizer engaged in combat against the [[Star Seeker]]s, the faces of Optimus Primal and Alpha Trion flashed through his mind. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag}}

====''Deviations''====
In an alternate timeline where [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] killed [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] in the [[Battle of Autobot City]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] ended up sacrificing himself to defeat [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megascream]] and [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]]. In the following [[Autobot]] celebration, Optimus Prime saw a vision of Alpha Trion and Rodimus Prime as equals within the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] and swore to never question its ways. {{Storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Letters page continuity====
[[Dreadwind (G1)|Dreadwind]] said that the events of "War Dawn" sounded like it happened, though he'd "never heard of this Alpha Trion character but then who am I?" {{storylink|Flashback!|268's Dread Tidings}}

===3H comics===
[[File:DepartureBetrayal-AlphaTrion.jpg|left|upright=1.66|thumb|Alpha Trion was various lions for all of two seconds, in one person's mind.]]
In the distant past, during the Cybertronians' rebellion against their Quintesson oppressors, A-3's mettle was tested in an encounter with a [[Dark Guardian]]. {{storylink|Disclosure}}

During [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]]'s rule of Cybertron, Alpha Trion was seemingly resurrected and/or reformatted as a lion by the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] to guide [[Primal Prime]] and his [[Wreckers|Wrecker]] in much the same way as he aided many previous Autobot leaders. {{storylink|Departure}} It is unclear whether this new form ever existed physically; its only appearance was as a vision in Primal Prime's head. {{storylink|Betrayal}} The ancient Autobot reached out and made contact with Primal Prime's spark, but his messages came through garbled and incomplete. Of the small amount of information he was able to transmit to Primal Prime was the fact that the Wreckers should believe in Primus's vision, and that their creator sometimes worked in mysterious ways... {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}}

[[File:Alphatrionuniverse.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|He said he was reformatted into a [[beast mode]], but he was lyin'.]]
Alpha Trion did not make a physical appearance after this enigmatic reintroduction until [[Unicron]] posed a new threat to the balance of the multiverse. Alpha Trion, though technically still merged with [[Primus]]/[[Vector Sigma]]/Whatever, was again in his original body (but now with a cape!). He/they pulled Cybertron's greatest hero, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]], back from the dead in order to rescue recently abducted Cybertronians from the center of the Chaos Bringer. {{storylink|Abduction}}

Though Primal was at first taken aback by the enormity of the task he had been assigned, Alpha Trion's pontification goaded him on in accepting the mission. When Primal succeeded at this monumental task, {{storylink|Escape (Universe)|Escape}} he confronted the [[Maximal High Council]] with one of his overblown speeches and was thrown in jail. Alpha Trion sent [[Snarl (BM)|Snarl]] to stage a small rescue of his own, and Primal was returned to the center of Cybertron. Here, Alpha Trion presented Primal with a window into the past, present, and future of the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]], from which he could pluck any warrior, whether they be living or dead. Primal chose [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depthcharge]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]], the former of whom rejected Primal's calling. Alpha Trion quieted Primal's disappointment, letting Depthcharge go, expecting him to return of his own accord. To take his place, Alpha Trion pulled [[Omega Prime]] from [[Viron 903.0 Beta|a Viron universe]]. {{storylink|Homecoming (Universe)|Homecoming}}
{{--}}

===Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity===
[[File:Alphatriondw.jpg|left|thumb|Most people kill their prizes before hanging them on their wall. Shockwave is not most people.]]
Eons ago, Alpha Trion kept watch over the Transformers when Primus entered his eternal sleep to hide Cybertron from Unicron. However, a nomadic alien race eventually conquered Cybertron, and Alpha Trion was forced into hiding. Thousands of Transformers were slaughtered, and Alpha Trion was unable to act. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide}} Alpha Trion performed actions that would make him known as the savior of his race. {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}}

Alpha Trion was attached to the supercomputer Vector Sigma, and was its caretaker from the [[Golden Age]] to the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. He was considered the only Transformer capable of accessing all of the computer's functions. In his position, he disagreed with the [[Council of Ancients]]' esoteric mysticism, wishing to make the Transformers' place in the cosmos more known. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #8}} Despite this, he was a secret guiding force behind the Council and its selection of Primes. He was fond of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], both with whom he had a special bond. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

After the [[Great Shutdown]], [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] was awakened. Soon after, he met [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]], who somehow led the [[Decepticon]] to Alpha Trion. Alpha Trion was incapacitated and hung on a wall in Shockwave's laboratory for analysis, to assist Shockwave in his attempt to control Vector Sigma. The ancient Cybertronian constantly foiled his attempts to analyze him; nevertheless, Shockwave swore that the savior of their race would become its "greatest destroyer". {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}} As Shockwave's plans reached fruition, the last remaining "ancient program" for him to decode was Alpha Trion. However, Shockwave's machinations were foiled by his apparent and untimely demise. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}}

Alpha Trion's last days were recorded to be deep within Cybertron, preparing the Transformers and Cybertron for their darkest hour. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[File:Historyofcybertron.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|Trukk... and munky?]]
When [[Serpentor|Serpent O.R.]] downloaded some of [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s memories, he saw Alpha Trion and his role in the [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 1|The Art of War #1}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Megatron Origin issue 3|''Megatron Origin'' #3]]}}

[[File:OriginMyths-ThePrimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]

In the years that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], Alpha Trion emerged as one of the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s, leading one of the [[Thirteen Tribes]] some twelve million years ago. He was well known as a chronicler and record-keeper of Cybertronian history; {{storylink|The Crucible}} though he did not have the same heroic reputation as the other Primes, he was a well-versed historian, librarian, and orator. {{storylink|White Light}} In his youth, he studied some of the mythical [[Artifacts of the Primes|artifacts]] that would come to be wielded by the Primes, such as the ancient [[Enigma of Combination]], {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} and learned as much as he could about the primitive tribes that inhabited prehistoric Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}}

Alpha Trion would join forces with four other Primes: [[Alchemist Prime|Alchemist]], [[Vector Prime|Vector]], [[Solus Prime|Solus]], and [[Nexus Prime]], and together they established a village they called the [[Crystal City]]. As a storyteller and keeper of legends, Trion encouraged the tribes to work together by regaling them with tales of [[Primus]] and the [[Guiding Hand]], believing that the kernels of truth passed down through his tales could inspire others to perform great deeds.

[[File:OriginMyths-AlchemistPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|"Go home Alchemist, you're drunk."]]

Their early efforts were threatened by the advancing armies of the [[Darklands]]; shortly after the Darklanders slaughtered [[Septimus Prime]] and sacked [[Protihex|Protohex]], another Prime, going by the name of "[[Onyx Prime|Onyx]]", arrived to propose an alliance, bringing with him his comrade [[Liege Maximo]] and an army of [[Beast mode|bestial]] warriors. "Onyx" professed scorn for Trion's belief in the Guiding Hand, but Trion spoke to him privately and made him see the inspirational power that his stories possessed. Onyx pressed him to convince the other Primes into allying with him; once united, their forces took to the field against the Darklanders. As the battle raged, events took an unexpected turn when three [[Titan (group)|Titans]] emerged from the depths of the planet. In the impromptu ceasefire, Onyx was able to reach the enemy leader [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] and convince him to lay down arms and agree to a proper truce. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

The other Primes never learned the truth about Onyx Prime: the bestial Prime was an identity of convenience assumed by a time-travelling [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]; using Megatronus as a catspaw, he had deliberately engineered the war between the Darklanders and the Crystal City in order to bring the Primes together under a single banner, one of many historical paradoxes he would engineer using his foreknowledge of Cybertron's long history. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

In the ensuing celebration, Trion soon became wary of his new ally: "Onyx" had begun telling "stories" of his own, thus seeding history with more paradoxes, including the "[[Dark Cybertron (prophecy)|Dark Cybertron]]" prophecy that his younger self would one day study and attempt to bring about. Trion's concerns were echoed by the Darklander warrior [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]], who believed that the Primes would eventually grow drunk on their own superiority and become tyrants. Trion solemnly told Arcee that it would be the job of their followers to keep the Primes in check. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

[[File:OmegasConundrum-Metroplex.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Because he's the wise sage Cybertron deserves, but not the one it needs right now.]]

Determined to see as much of his planet as he could before it all changed, Trion befriended the Titan [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], and the pair set off to explore and chart Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} Over the next two million years, the initial coalition of Primes were joined by five more, and thus united the Primes became the alliance known as the [[Thirteen]], led by [[Prima]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} In the ensuing era of peace, Trion became known as "The Trion" and developed his famed reputation for storytelling. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Other Primes had grown arrogant, however and began spreading rumors that only a Prime could kill another Prime, to ensure their reign would last forever. {{storylink|The Crucible}} None of the twelve Primes ever suspected that "Onyx Prime" had continued to manipulate them, and, as he had once brought them together, planned to tear them apart once more. Indeed, "Onyx" soon realized that he could permanently keep Trion's suspicions at bay simply by spinning one convincing story after another. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-AntillanWar.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.85|"What have we done, Onyx?" "Why, we've simply brought civilization to the very brink of extinction. Gum?"]]
"Onyx" set his plans in motion by encouraging Prima to commission an interstellar mission of goodwill, designed to share the "enlightened" civilization of Cybertron with their neighbors. Alpha Trion joined the voyage as its official record-keeper, and joined by [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] and his [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinels]], the Cybertronian expedition set off for the organic world of [[Antilla]], its resources making it ripe for colonization. When the detachment arrived however, the [[Antillan]]s fought back against the invaders. Over the course of this brief war, "Onyx"—despite Trion's misgivings—announced that this world now belonged to Alpha Trion, the first of Cybertron's thirteen "colonies". When recording these events however, Trion would write that the Antillan mission had been one of peace and that the natives had been the ones who fired first. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Our Finest}}

On returning to Cybertron, "Onyx" continued to secretly sow discord, and manipulated events so that a furious Megatronus would slay [[Solus Prime]] in an attempted coup against Prima. Alpha Trion agreed that Liege Maximo, who had seemingly masterminded the coup that had led to her death, had forfeited his right to live on Cybertron and watched as his fellow Primes imprisoned Liege Maximo aboard [[Vigilem]].

Determined to bring Solus Prime's killer to justice, Alpha Trion joined "Onyx" and Prima aboard Prima's Titan, [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]]. The three Primes tracked Megatronus to the barren world of [[Tsiehshi]], but Trion stayed behind while the other two Primes went to confront Megatronus in a final duel. Only "Onyx Prime" returned, informing the record-keeper that Prima had sacrificed himself to end Megatronus's life. The reality was more complicated, however: "Onyx" had simply let Megatronus kill Prima, then, his usefulness at an end, killed Megatronus. Trion was once more swayed by "Onyx Prime's" well-told tale, and so this account became the "official" version of events that would find its way into the chronicles of Cybertron... and thus, the inspiration for the lie that the time-traveling Shockwave used to cover up the truth. Returning to Cybertron, Trion and the five remaining Primes watched as Emissary interred Prima's remains within his body and left Cybertron, unaware that his systems had been sabotaged by "Onyx". {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheMindBomb-TrionAndGalvatron.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|left]]
With the Primes reduced in number and divided from within, they and their followers soon fell to war with one another in the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]], {{storylink|Heavy}} the outcome Shockwave had been aiming for all along. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Trion was not an active participant in the war, instead hoping to find a way to end the conflict as bloodlessly as possible. When the warrior [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] slaughtered [[Nexus Prime]] and dispelled the rumors that the Primes were immortal, fear for their own safety prompted the last of the Primes to flee Cybertron, one by one, until only Alpha Trion remained. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:TheCrucible AlphaTrionRevealed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]
Determined to bring the war to an end, Alpha Trion approached Galvatron during the [[Battle of Aegiax]] to request his help in bringing peace to Cybertron—promising the bloodthirsty barbarian whatever he wanted in exchange. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}} Trion led Galvatron to the [[Citadel of Light]], former home of [[Prima]] and his tribe, and watched Galvatron and Prima's last follower [[Nova Prime|Nova Major]] defeat the remnants of Onyx Prime's forces. When the battle was won, Alpha Trion introduced himself to Nova, who was not quick to believe Trion's claim to Primehood until Trion pummeled him into submission. Together, the trio made for "Onyx Prime's" castle in [[Kalis]] to verify Trion's belief that the other Primes had disappeared. Their way into the castle was barred by the sole remaining warrior, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox of the Mournsong]], but he was quickly intimidated into letting them pass. Discovering that "Onyx" had indeed vanished, Nova announced his plan to take control of Cybertron and unify its tribes, and Alpha Trion, feeling this was the best course of action for Cybertron's people, gladly stood aside and let Nova assume the title of Prime.

After taking control of Cybertron, Nova directed his attention to decoding the secrets of the Thirteen, beginning with Nexus Prime's Enigma of Combination. Galvatron was the only one of them who ''didn't'' want to uncover the Enigma, and continually insisted that the Enigma was gone, just like its creator. Trion became curious by Galvatron's claims and pointed out that everyone ''except'' Galvatron talked of the Enigma as if it were merely a concept, but Galvatron spoke of it as a physical object. One look in Galvatron's eyes provided Alpha with all the explanation he needed to arrive at the answer. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

Over the next few million years, Alpha Trion was content to let himself fade into the background of Cybertronian life, allowing himself to be "forgotten" after the disastrous fall of the Primes. {{storylink|The Crucible}} When Nova Prime and his crew—which included Galvatron—departed Cybertron six million years ago, Alpha Trion blessed their starship, the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]''. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Following the disappearance of the ''Ark'', memorial lectures were held in honor of Nova, during which Alpha Trion gave a speech about [[Primus]]. {{storylink|Primus: You, Me, and Other Revelations}} Alpha Trion's various compendiums regarding the early histories of Cybertron were of interest to the younger Senator [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], and thus would go on to form the basis for many of "Onyx Prime's" manipulations to the timeline. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:MO3 EOOPAT funeral.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5]]
Nova Prime, thought dead, would eventually be supplanted by [[Nominus Prime]], and, later, [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]. Unaware that Sentinel Prime was a false identity constructed by the ancient [[Titan Master]] [[Infinitus]], Alpha Trion was known to have stood up against "Sentinel Prime's" increasingly fascistic ideals. {{storylink|White Light}} At the request of a [[blacksmith]], Trion bore witness to the birth of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]], agreeing that there was something special about the newborn. {{storylink|Post}} Four million years ago, as [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Decepticon]] uprising took shape, Alpha Trion attended the funerals of [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]] and [[Fastback (G1)|Fastback]]. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}}

Because of Alpha Trion's intimate knowledge of Cybertron's surface, he accompanied Orion Pax and [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] on a mission into the treacherous [[Rust Sea|Rust Spot]] to swap Decepticon prisoners for the captured [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]]. This was merely a ruse to draw out Alpha Trion, who the Decepticons wanted in order to help locate Metroplex. Due to Orion Pax's valiant actions, Alpha Trion and the other Autobots escaped with their lives. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} The Autobots did get something out of Alpha Trion though; confirmation that the Titans were indeed real. {{storylink|The Hunting Party (IDW)|The Hunting Party}}

Once Orion Pax had become Optimus Prime, he broadcast a message to all Cybertronians, asking them to join him in the fight against the Decepticons and beginning the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. Alpha Trion watched this broadcast with interest from the archives of [[Kutanzuule]]. {{storylink|Broadcast}} He soon came in contact with the young Prime to offer him advice and guidance in his early days as Autobot leader. {{storylink|Derelicts}} When Optimus blamed himself for being unable to stop the [[Exodus (event)|Exodus]], Alpha Trion assured him that sometimes a leader's role was to let their followers go and make their own decisions. {{storylink|The Illusion of Control}} Alpha Trion was surprised when Optimus rediscovered the long lost [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], and advised him to accept that the ancient guardian would not easily reintegrate into society. {{storylink|Primacy issue 2|Primacy #2}}

[[File:HelloCruelWorld-AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.7]]
500,000 years ago, Alpha Trion chose to leave Cybertron together with Metroplex, partly to keep the Titan and his technology out of Decepticon hands, but also to investigate [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]'s [[Regenesis]] plan. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} After exploring space for millennia, Alpha Trion came to realize that Shockwave had not seeded his miraculous ores randomly—each had been sent to a planet that Shockwave believed one of the Thirteen had gone after they had fled Cybertron, and the thirteenth planet was the resting place of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:Ironing Out the Details Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|Metal beards are ridiculous! But ''cloth'' beards are super okay.]]
The pair briefly returned to Cybertron in [[1997]]; by this point, the planet had been rendered virtually uninhabitable by war, and so Trion began trying to restore it. Operating out of Metroplex, Trion spent the next decade processing the corrosive elements out of Cybertron's atmosphere, slowly making it habitable again. After 2008, the problem was compounded by a monstrous [[Insecticon swarm]] that had overrun the planet. Requiring the toughest of the tough to obliterate the swarm, Alpha Trion selected [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] to do the job. That Ironhide was across the galaxy on Earth mattered little: Ironhide would eventually die some day, Trion rationalized, and so he built a duplicate body on Cybertron into which he could implant Ironhide's spark and memories once he passed on and returned to the "[[Transformer afterlife|core]]". With Vector Sigma having been essentially erased in the event that devastated Cybertron, this took Alpha Trion years and pushed his skills to their limit, but once Ironhide died on Earth in 2010, the ancient Autobot's grand work was complete, and Ironhide returned to life on Cybertron in the new body constructed for him. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

Ironhide awoke in confusion, his memories incomplete due to damage he had suffered millions of years beforehand that had disrupted his link to the core, and wandered Cybertron's wastes until Alpha Trion dispatched his [[Scamper|page]] to bring the befuddled warrior to Metroplex's city mode. Alpha Trion took umbrage at the fact Ironhide had never heard of his ancient greatness, and revealed his incredible powers over his own electromagnetic aura by using it to control Ironhide's actions when the ornery Autobot started to get a little rough. Ironhide further tested Trion's patience when he ignored his cautions and ventured out to track down the near-dead [[Sunstreaker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sunstreaker]] (even if Sunstreaker ''had'' heard of him). Finally, Trion relented to Ironhide's constant questioning and explained the reason he had brought him back online: to exterminate the swarm. {{storylink|Ironing Out the Details}}

[[File:AnyOldIron IronhidePunchesTrion.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.6|"Oh sorry, I thought you were [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] for a second."]]
While Ironhide took out of most of the swarm in a brutal battle, Trion busied himself repairing Sunstreaker. After Ironhide returned, Trion announced that he and Metroplex were leaving Cybertron for parts unknown while Ironhide mopped up the remaining Insecticons. Infuriated by the old 'bots condescending attitude, Ironhide slugged him one, but Alpha Trion let it slide, putting Ironhide in his place by telling him he was just a small playing piece in a very large game. Before departing, however, Alpha Trion softened, congratulating Ironhide on saving the entire planet. After all, the only other Autobot would could make that claim... was he. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

In 2012, Alpha Trion finally deduced that the Enigma of Combination had landed on [[Earth]]. Hoping to recover it before Shockwave could harness its power for his own ends, {{storylink|The Crucible}} Trion left Metroplex to fend off the next stage of Shockwave's ultimate plan by himself. Trion set course for Earth to retrieve what he called the "holy grail", and was thus unable to turn back and help when his Titan companion was infected with an [[alchemical virus]]. After crossing paths with the ''[[Vis Vitalis]]'', he convinced [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]'s [[Caminus (planet)|Camien]] associates, [[Cityspeaker]] [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and her compatriots [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] and [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]], to use their [[Cityspeaker|cityspeaking]] skills to aid the Titan in his place. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} {{storylink|A 'Bot and Her City}} Alpha Trion also tasked the three with delivering a simple message for Optimus Prime: "Earth." {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} Shockwave saw Alpha Trion in a vision of things that would come to pass during the Dark Cybertron prophecy. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}}

[[File:Full Fathom Five Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|left]]
Alpha Trion made it to Earth shortly before Shockwave enacted the final stage of his plan; unfortunately for him, however, his ship was shot down by the [[Earth Defense Command]], {{storylink|The Crucible}} and both he and his vessel were interred at the EDC's primary headquarters in the [[Marshall Islands|Bikini Atoll]] for study. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} After finally meeting Optimus in person, Windblade passed Trion's message along and Optimus and a group of Autobots travelled to Earth to find him. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}}

A month later, [[Jazz (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jazz]] infiltrated the EDC base and stumbled on him while investigating the EDC's use of Cybertronian tech. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} Knowing he was hooked up to an alarm and that the EDC's "[[mindbomb]]" couldn't have been created from just ''his'' brain, [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] stopped Jazz from rescuing Alpha Trion immediately in order to investigate further. After deactivating the alarms they took Alpha Trion and fled on [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], where a merry Trion's reunion with Optimus Prime was cut short by a coughing fit, prompting [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]] to take him away and have a look at his injuries. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 5: I Dream of Wires|I Dream of Wires}}

[[File:TheCrucible MoonMeeting.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.5]]
Alpha Trion had Optimus Prime take him to the [[Moon (moon)|moon]], away from prying ears, to share with him why Earth was so important. He told the story about how he brought Galvatron and Nova Prime together, shocking and angering Optimus with the fact that he was one of the Thirteen Primes and let Nova Prime's reign happen, before revealing the presence of the Enigma of Combination on Earth. {{storylink|The Crucible}} They subsequently returned to the ''[[Ark-7]]'', where Jetfire found their trip had worsened Alpha Trion's condition and admonished Prime. When Prime then returned to Cybertron for what he claimed were political reasons, Trion poked fun at him until he admitted he also had a personal reason, namely the anniversary of him becoming Prime. {{storylink|Onyx Interface Part One: Signals, Calls, and Marches|Signals, Calls, and Marches}}

[[File:TheNothingMan-alphatrionwithenigmacode.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|left]]
When the ''Ark-7'' came under attack and the Autobots lost control of the ship, Alpha Trion recognized why—its computers had been infected with the source code of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} Joining [[Sideswipe (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sideswipe]] and [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] as they fought their way through the ship's defenses towards its [[Space bridge|spacebridge]], Trion described the Enigma as one of the "metaphors made real" devised by the ancient Primes and that normal Transformers couldn't fight against it. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 1: Aphelion|Aphelion}} They reached their goal only to be greeted by a group of Decepticons who'd arrived through the spacebridge to capture the ship, {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} prompting Sideswipe to hide the still injured Alpha Trion away from harm in a storage compartment. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 4: Perihelion|Perihelion}}

After the Decepticons had crashed the ship onto Earth, Trion and the others were recovered by Optimus Prime's forces. Once they'd relocated, he was shocked to hear that Optimus had started a war with Earth in an attempt to annex it, and wondered what his plan was now. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 1: Once Upon a Time on Earth|Once Upon a Time on Earth}} He was present when Optimus returned after an ill-fated confrontation between [[Aileron]] and the [[President of the United States]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 2: Edge of the Earth|Edge of the Earth}} When the Autobots joined forces with [[Soundwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons against Galvatron, Alpha Trion's status as another Prime distressed Soundwave. He remained at their [[Monument Valley]] base caring for [[Buster (IDW)|Buster]] during the actual attack, but an attack on ''them'' by the humans caused the dog to run off with [[D.0.C.]] {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 4: It's Beginning To And Back Again|It's Beginning To And Back Again}} As the battle raged on, Alpha Trion encouraged Optimus Prime to search within himself for the reason he had chosen this particular valley as their base, which led to Optimus realizing [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]] was hidden beneath the surface and awakening him. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 5: As Above...So Below|As Above...So Below}}

[[File:WhiteLight-trionandinfinitus.jpg|thumb|right]]
Alpha Trion watched Metrotitan transform into [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], the Cybertronian embassy on Earth. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 6: No Fair Fights|No Fair Fights}} After this he sought another Prime-to-Prime talk with Optimus, but Optimus postponed it in favor of having him coordinate the aftermath of the battle with Galvatron's soldiers. {{storylink|The Last Autobot}}

While resting at Autobot City, Alpha Trion was confronted by a diminutive Cybertronian who introduced himself as "[[Infinitus]]", decrying Trion as the weakest of the original [[Thirteen]]. Alpha Trion was confused by Infinitus, but as the interloper pontificated about his plan to wipe Cybertron clean of "vermin" and return it to its [[Golden Age]], Alpha Trion realized that his visitor was none other than the 'bot he had once known as [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]! Sentinel Prime deployed a set of blades from his forearms and pounced on Trion, decapitating him. While Optimus and Soundwave were waylaid, Infinitus used his [[Titan Master]] powers to puppeteer Trion's body, escaping in its spaceship configuration. {{storylink|White Light}} After using it to fetch [[Sovereign]], herald of Onyx Prime and fellow Titan Master, Infinitus passed control of the body on to him. When Infinitus and Sovereign confronted Optimus Prime and Soundwave, Soundwave used Alpha Trion's sword to remove Sovereign, and Trion's head and body were recovered. They were returned to Cybertron and reunited by [[Fixit (G1)|Fixit]], who explained that the old Autobot would survive. {{storylink|White Heat}}

Alpha Trion then got an apartment and spruced it up with all manner of literary texts. Prior to Earth officially joining the Cybertronian [[Council of Worlds]], he was visited by Optimus, Pyra and Starscream and recounted the tale of the unification of the Thirteen and the "first face". Once he was finished, he defended himself to a skeptical Starscream, saying he simply told the story. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

When [[Thundercracker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Thundercracker]] ran into story difficulties in making [[Starscream: The Movie (film)|his film about Starscream]], he sought out Alpha Trion for his views regarding Starscream being labelled as the "Chosen One". Alpha Trion felt that Metrotitan had been spouting random nonsense in his damaged state with Starscream just having been in the right place to take advantage of it. Nonetheless, he gave Thundercracker advice that instead of using his film to spread lies about Starscream, he should instead use the power of stories to present truths that would inspire his audience. {{storylink|Starscream: The Movie (comic)|Starscream: The Movie}}

[[File:AnotherMine OnyxAlphaReunited.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.3|"But enough about me, let's kill ''you!''"]]
After [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] became ruler of Cybertron, Trion met with the [[Mistress of Flame]] who recounted to him an encounter she had with Onyx Prime on Antilla. Alpha Trion had also invited [[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]] to the discussion in the hopes that the highly religious Mistress and the recently atheist Constructicon could each teach the other something. Onyx Prime himself returned to Cybertron that very day with the captive Liege Maximo, much to everyone's apprehension. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Trion joined the subsequent meeting at the [[Spire]], but as tensions mounted between the trio of Primes, the religious colonists, and Soundwave—who refused to let the Primes reassert themselves as leaders—Trion was struck by a devastating epiphany: the 'bot he believed to be "Onyx Prime" was, in fact, Shockwave, who had manipulated him all these years. Before he could warn his allies of "Onyx Prime"'s true intentions, a powerful blast ripped through the Spire and mortally wounded him. Soundwave rushed to his side, but was unable to do anything more than pronounce him dead. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 2: Another Mine|Another Mine}}

When Soundwave sacrificed his life to help defeat [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]], he saw a vision of the many deceased- Alpha Trion included, welcoming him into the [[Transformer afterlife|Afterspark]]. {{storylink|Ceremony}} As Optimus Prime himself died, he remembered all the major moments of his life and pondered if Trion being present at his forging was proof that he'd been [[The Arisen]]. {{storylink|Post}}

====Vision of the future====
In a vision of the future seen by Ironhide and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] during the reformatting of Cybertron, Alpha Trion lived on a prosperous [[Gorlam Prime]] fifteen million years from now, telling young Transformers the history of their race and their struggles. His closest friend at this time was an aged Ironhide, who Alpha frequently comforted as Ironhide struggled to find his place in the new civilization. {{storylink|Pax Cybertronia (issue)|Pax Cybertronia}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
[[Preditron]] remembered Alpha Trion as an inspirational figure, one who exemplified the best qualities of the Autobots. {{storylink|The Predacon Manifesto}}

[[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] knew the books of Alpha Trion to hold that countless Cybertrons existed in the multiverse. {{storylink|Alone Together: Prologue}}

While interacting with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]], [[Overshoot]] witnessed flashes of Cybertron's long history, including Alpha Trion wielding his [[Quill]]. {{storylink|Cultural Appropriation}}

===''Transformers vs. G.I. Joe''===
[[File:Everybody Hates Metroplex - Vision of Alpha Trion passing the Matrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
As he lay dying, Alpha Trion passed the Matrix of Leadership down to Optimus Prime, an event that would later be plucked from Prime's memories and scrutinized during his [[Quintesson]] trial. {{storylink|Everybody Hates Metroplex}} His spirit passed into the Matrix, where it would later haunt [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] after he'd stolen the artifact. {{storylink|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe issue 12|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe #12}} The spirits of Alpha Trion and other past Matrix holders manifested again when Optimus Prime took back the Matrix. {{storylink|The War Never Ends}}

{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
When questioned if Alpha Trion was [[Solomus]], [[Vector Prime]] just said that his brethren went by many faces and names. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/01}}

===''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material===
[[File:PowerOfTheTitanMasters-alphatrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was partnered with the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], who granted him the power of Primus himself. {{storylink|#Generations|''Titans Return'' Sovereign/Alpha Trion toy bio}} On the planet [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Eukaris]], Alpha Trion and [[Grimlock (G1)|Clobber]] discovered an ancient artifact linked to the [[Titan (group)|Titan]]s and Titan Masters. They were attacked by a contingent of Decepticons intent on ambushing the two Autobots and stealing the artifact for themselves, but [[Apeface]] managed to blow their cover and give the Autobots time to fight back. {{storylink|Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters}}

Alpha Trion's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Trion's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|#Power of the Primes|''Power of the Primes'' Landmine / Alpha Trion online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Alpha Trion's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}
{{--}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
[[File:StormHorizonPart2-Soundblaster.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]

A stained-glass mural of Alpha Trion existed next to other members in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|The Cracks Beneath Your Feet Part Five}} Alpha Trion was active in the days before the [[War of the Threefold Spark]], and attempted to teach his mentee [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] about sympathy and compassion. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}} Trion bore witness to the war that followed, his spark weeping for those that were extinguished.

When the [[Tether]] had fallen, Alpha Trion had left Cybertron, hunting down ancient Cybertronian artefacts across the galaxy. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} Trion's search led him to the [[Decimus Sector]]. Knowing that [[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]]'s crew had mapped the [[Black Sphere]] region, he bargained for usage of a [[Kworian]] starship, eventually finding himself in [[Soundblaster (G1)|Soundblaster]]'s company. Though Trion had left a series of signal markers, their proximity to the [[black hole]] gave an exaggerated account of how long he'd been gone, sending Ultra Magnus on a search for him. Via [[hologram]], Trion projected himself to his mentee on the planet [[Obsidar]] just as Soundblaster's vessel came under attack from a fleet of starships. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}}

Obsessed with his profits, Soundblaster refused to let Alpha Trion go free, forcing Ultra Magnus to board the ship and rescue his mentor. With Trion noting that the Kworians were unlikely to stand down, the two left the ship to be destroyed by the black hole and retreated to the ''[[Fist of Iacon]]''. Setting course for home, the crew discovered that Megatron had overthrown the [[Senate]] but Alpha Trion reassured everyone that with faith in their cause and courage, they would see through this crisis and emerge stronger. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 3}}

{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Ben Jurand]] (English), [[Banjō Ginga]] (Japanese)|[[Dario de Castro]] (Portuguese), [[Mathieu Buscatto]] (French), [[Samuel Zekarias]] (German), [[Jesús Carrasco]] (Castilian Spanish), [[José Luis Orozco]] (Latin-American Spanish)}}
[[File:WFC-Earthrise-Ep5-Alpha-Trion-threatens-Sky-Lynx.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]

In Cybertron's past, Alpha Trion led the planet into a rebellion against its [[Quintesson|oppressors]], and mentored [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] {{storylink|Siege episode 1}} as his students to bring change and good to Cybertron. Alpha Trion also protected the [[Matrix of Leadership]], waiting for one worthy enough to be chosen. The arrogant [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] time and time again tried to claim the talisman until Alpha Trion used the [[Forge of Solus Prime|Staff of Solus]] to banish the draconian to the [[Dead Universe]]. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} At some point, Alpha Trion studied the mystical [[AllSpark]], proving its existence, {{storylink|Siege episode 2}} and knew where it was located. {{storylink|Siege episode 4}}

As the Autobots and Decepticons diverged and Megatron started his own revolution, the former student murdered Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}} The Matrix of Leadership chose Optimus Prime as its next bearer and Magnus inherited the sum total of Alpha Trion's knowledge in the form of the [[Alpha Trion Protocols]]. Trion, greatly missed by many, was awarded a memorial in the mass-grave at [[Tarn-Hauser Gate]]. When Megatron murdered Ultra Magnus, the Alpha Trion Protocols chose the scavenger [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. He spoke to a simulacrum of Alpha Trion that persisted within the Protocols, {{storylink|Siege episode 4}} but it was destroyed when [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] engineered a virus against it. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}}

While in the Dead Universe, both Optimus and Megatron looked back to when Alpha Trion had mentored them and Ultra Magnus, but the Decepticon leader only let it fuel his hatred. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} When the Autobots and [[Maximal]]s searched for the AllSpark on Earth, the artifact produced an illusion of Alpha Trion to Optimus Prime, part of its defense mechanism to lead would-be threats astray. Optimus followed the projection until it led him to a mortally wounded [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and the Matrix of Leadership. {{storylink|Kingdom episode 3}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Go! Go!''===
{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Go! Go! issue 42}}}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:AlphaTrionG1-MegatronOriginLegends.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest Transformers alive. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

Sentinel Prime sent Alpha Trion out to investigate an uprising of working-class robots. Alpha Trion uncovered that Senator Ratbat has shut down a mine, which catapulted into motion the Decepticon movement. He reported his findings to Sentinel Prime, and Ratbat was forced to flee for his life. {{storylink|Megatron Origins}}

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-GoldenAgeLegends.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Alpha Trion, alongside Nightbeat and Orion Pax, was to escort the Decepticons Rack'n'Ruin in a prisoner exchange with the Decepticons. Though they encountered [[Slicer (group)|Slicers]] en route, the group eventually met up with Bludgeon. But instead of the agreed upon exchange, Bludgeon and the Decepticons ambushed the Autobots, leading to Alpha Trion's capture. He was rescued and returned to Zeta Prime's protective custody thanks to Nightbeat and Orion Pax's efforts. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

When Orion Pax and Ariel were seriously injured by the Decepticons, the Aerialbots took the pair to Trion, who rebuilt them into [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He also aided the Aerialbots in returning to their own time through the [[Chronogon]] portal. {{storylink|Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age}}
{{--}}

===''Angry Birds Transformers''===
{{main|Mighty Eagle#As Alpha Trion}}
Alpha Trion appears as a character unlockable in Challenge Events. He is portrayed by Mighty Eagle. {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}

===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest living Cybertronians. While not technically an Autobot, he happily provided them with advice and lore from Cybertron's prehistoric past. {{storylink|Transformers Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook|Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|right|150px|]]
Alpha Trion was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Power of the Primes}}

Alpha Trion has said he had not borne arms for many centuries. {{Storylink|The Nemesis (Earth Wars)|The Nemesis}}

[[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]] had found evidence of recent time travel and told the other Autobots. Prowl suspected it was Alpha Trion and the other [[Council of Autobot Elders|Autobot Elders]] who had traveled to the past. Perceptor agreed, knowing that since Alpha Trion was a High Councillor, he would have direct access to Vector Sigma. Windblade feared this could lead to more Time Wars. {{Storylink|Lost In Time}}

{{Charstubgames|{{Storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}

==Toys==
===''Expanded Universe''===
[[File:Alphalion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|"im not ownable! im not ownable!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a lion]]
:A redeco of ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' Deluxe Class [[Snarl (BM)#Toys|Snarl]] was planned as Alpha Trion for the [[BotCon|OTFCC]] ''[[Transformers: The Wreckers|Wreckers]]'' storyline, but this concept never made it past the paint mock-up stage.

:A redecoed [[Lio Convoy#Beast Wars|Lio Convoy]] was also considered by [[3H Productions|3H]] for Alpha Trion around the same time, and it was sort of this version that briefly appeared in the comic book ([[#3H comics|see above]]). Though the toy [[Prototype|mock-up]] used Snarl, 3H hoped they could finagle the use of the Lio Convoy mold. The wireframe appearance of "Alpha Lion" in [[Departure|''The Wreckers'' #1]] used Lio Convoy's body, but Snarl's head, hopefully allowing 3H to fudge either way, should they come to a decision. They didn't!

::*''[http://www.transformertoys.co.uk/resources/review/universe/alpha+trion/3368 Image gallery of the Alpha Trion Snarl redeco purchased from the Hartmans]''

{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-AlphaTrion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm not evil! Honest!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Alpha Trion / Weirdwolf''' (Souvenir two-pack, 2007)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, missile, Cyber Key

: The first actual toy of Alpha Trion (well, sorta, we'll get to that in a moment) is a [[retool]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' Voyager Class [[Vector Prime#Cybertron|Vector Prime]], [[redeco]]ed in purple, white, and red, plus a new head designed by [[Dan Khanna]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Here's some Transformers Legends Alpha Trion card art I pencilled for the game. ( colors by Volta studios ) They based this off the Botcon 2007 toy. ( where I designed a new head for the Vector Prime mold.) https://t.co/hfDwLjQHlc|link=https://twitter.com/DantheArtguy/status/1326732569140977669|name=DantheArtguy|site=Twitter|year=2020|month=11|day=12|(defunct=)}}</ref> He transforms into a large Cybertronian space cruiser with "solar panel" wings. His nosecone has a spring-loaded missile launcher at the tip. Inserting his [[Cyber Key]] (painted gold to resemble the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]) does not activate any sounds, unlike Vector Prime's toy. Alpha Trion has the more flexible translucent plastic parts ([[for safety reasons]]) of the [[Hasbro]] version of the mold. His starship mode also has a socket to snugly fit his pack-in partner [[Beta Maxx (RID)#Toys|Beta Maxx]].

: Released under the ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' banner, he was only available in a bagged "souvenir set" with Beta Maxx and [[Weirdwolf (G1)#Timelines|Weirdwolf]] at [[BotCon 2007]], limited to 1400 pieces.

: While this figure's design obviously derives from depictions of Generation 1 Alpha Trion, the accompanying profile card ''very vaguely'' describes the [[Alpha Trion (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' incarnation of Alpha Trion]]. And roughly a year after its release, the ''Timelines'' fiction made the big reveal that yes, this was the villainous incarnation. For many years there was dispute as to whose page this toy should go on according to the wiki's classification system, but in 2013, this toy appeared in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Legends]]'' mobile game event "[[Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age]]", and thus this toy resumed having an entry on this page.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/BCAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Generations'' (Japan)===
[[File:TFGenerations2014 Rejected AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|Denied.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{bp-a1|'''Alpha Trin''' (Deluxe, <strike>[[2015]]</strike>)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Presumably 2 handguns

: A mock-up of a Japanese "Alpha Trin" toy in the form of a ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Deluxe Class [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Generations|Scourge]] redeco was shown in ''[[Transformers Generations 2014 Volume 1]]'' as one of ten potential exclusives for Vol. 2. In the [[Fan polls#Generations Magazine Exclusive Character Popularity Vote|fan poll]] held to determine which of the ten would be produced, Alpha Trion claimed 28.9% of the votes but ultimately came second place under [[Goshooter#Generations (Japan)|Goshooter]].<ref>[http://millionhero.sblo.jp/article/101898683.html Poll results at Hero-X]</ref> The accompanying text notes that he would have come with a Vector Sigma accessory, presumably to be a golden redeco of [[Eggbot (BW)|''Beast Wars'' Eggbot]] as seen in the volume's manga story, "[[Train Wars]]".
{{GenerationsScourgeMold}}
{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionKreon.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2014)}}</ul>
:*''Collection'': '''4'''
:*''Bag number'': '''***** 33'''
:*''Accessories'': Stand brick, buildable sword/spear-thing
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of the fourth Collection of [[blindpacking|blind-bagged]] [[Kreon]] [[Micro-Changer]]s, ''[[Kre-O]]'' Alpha Trion can be rebuilt from a humanoid to a starship seemingly based on the [[BotCon 2007]] Alpha Trion toy (above). His vehicle-mode bits are rebuilt into a massive spear/sword/thing weapon for robot mode. His jet mode is the only Micro-Changer to fully remove the Kreon's arms in alternate mode.

:He uses the [[Jazz (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Jazz]] helmet... which covers his eyes when pushed all the way down on the noggin.

: This Collection was passed by most larger brick-and-mortar stores, appearing at [[Walgreens]] drug stores first and largely being relegated to similar outlets. Later releases of this wave lost the individual bag codes, meaning you either felt parts through the bag or buy blind.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Autobot/Kre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on ''Kre-O'' Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionClass85.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|There's always that one old guy who hangs out at school long after he graduated...]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Kreon Class of 1985''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)}}</ul>
:*''Set number'': '''B5152'''
:*''Voted'': 800th Year Senior
:*''Accessories'': Longsword

: This version of Kreon Alpha Trion has more intricate, cartoon-accurate detailing, and uses the ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (franchise)|Age of Extinction]]'' [[Megatron (Movie)/toys#Kre-O|Galvatron]] helmet. He also comes with the longsword accessory from the ''Kre-O Dungeons & Dragons'' series for... some reason.

: He also uses the updated 2015-style Kreon body, making almost all of his parts incompatible with previous years' Kreons.

: He was only available in the "[[Kreon Class of '85]]" 30-Kreon box set, a [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2015 [[exclusive]], also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] following the convention.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Autobot/SDCCKre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Class of '85 Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Legends''===
[[File:Legendstoy-LG14-Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|So I'm basically Optimus Prime's brother ''and'' father figure?]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Ultra Magnus''' (Leader, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number'': '''LG-14'''
:*''Release date'': [[September 9]], 2015

: The ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' release of ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Leader Class [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#Generations|Ultra Magnus]] includes a small Alpha Trion figure, which is a redeco of the [[Minimus Ambus#Generations|Minimus Ambus]] figure (as Minimus does not appear in any Japanese-original fiction). He transforms into a [[Popular Cybertronian vehicle alternate modes#Hovercar|Cybertronian hovercar]], which can tab onto three grooves on the lower level of Magnus's trailer. In robot mode, Alpha Trion can sit inside Ultra Magnus's robot mode torso, "wearing" the Magnus head like a helmet.
{{-}}

===''Titans Return''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Titans-Return-Voyager-Alpha-Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Destined to be repurposed as [[Cheetor (BW)#Wings Universe|Alpha Trizer]].]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Autobot Sovereign & Alpha Trion''' (Voyager Class, 2016)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, [[Sovereign#Generations|Sovereign]] Titan Master, Gun
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)|[[Emiliano Santalucia]] (concept artist), [[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

:''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' Alpha Trion transforms from a robot to lion (in homage to his cancelled [[BotCon 2001]] toy) to spaceship. His head transforms into the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], although his neck socket is compatible with any other Titan Master figure. Both his alternate modes are references to Alpha Trion's previous BotCon toys. He comes with a gun that Sovereign can ride in spaceship mode. As with other ''Titans Return'' Voyager figures, pressing in his chest crystal makes his head adornments spring up to "bulk up" his head. In Canada and Australia, Alpha Trion along with his wavemate [[Astrotrain (G1)/toys#Titans Return|Astrotrain]] were prominent shelfwarmers, while finding Alpha Trion anywhere in the US was a great deal more difficult.

: The Hasbro Asia exclusive giveaway sticker sheet can be used to enhance the figure's details.<ref>https://news.tfw2005.com/2016/09/23/hasbro-asia-titans-return-stickers-wave-2-325179</ref>

: This toy was [[Repurposing|repurposed]] as a body for ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Alpha Trion (SG)|Alpha Trion]]. This mold was retooled into ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' [[Lio Convoy#Legends|Leo Prime]] and ''extensively'' retooled into ''Titans Return'' [[Broadside (G1)#Titans Return|Broadside]] and [[Tidal Wave (G1)#Titans Return|Tidal Wave]]. The sword was redecoed into ''Legends'' [[Magna Convoy]]'s [[Matrix Sword]] and ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Nemesis Prime]]'s Ancient Sword.
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Prime-Master-Alpha-Trion-with-Landmine.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|''Legends'', ''Titans Return'', ''Power of the Primes''. The trilogy is complete!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Prime Master, [[2018]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number:'' '''PP-32'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[October 27]], 2018
:*''Accessories:'' Landmine decoy armor, cannon
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Alpha Trion is a [[Prime Master]] with [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] decoy armor, visually based on the original [[Pretender]]'s shell. Alpha Trion/Landmine is a [[retool]] of [[Vector Prime#Power of the Primes|Vector Prime]]/[[Metalhawk (G1)#Power of the Primes|Metalhawk]], with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil and decoy armor front.

:This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The decoy armor has a weapon piece which can fold out to create a weapon mode, or detach and be held in the armor's 3 mm-compatible hand. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside the decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug onto any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the [[Scepter of Sparks]]. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

:Quality control on the Landmine armor varies: many units' arm holes are slightly too small, warping the connector joints in-package and making the arms pop off when posing. Copies with normal-sized holes can be identified by viewing the package sideways to see whether the joints are warped. There have also been some reports of copies with just one flawed arm.
{{-}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:Legacy-A-Hero-Is-Born-Alpha-Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"Please, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#HasbroPulse|my son]], he is very sick..."]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''A Hero is Born''' (2-pack, 2022) }}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Rifle, [[Vector Sigma#Legacy|Vector Sigma]], [[Key to Vector Sigma#Legacy|Key to Vector Sigma]], stand
{{toydesigner|[[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takio Ejima]] and [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Lenny Panzica]] (initial concept)}}<ref>[https://youtu.be/vuZHDR3ZBd8 Transformers Panel] at [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022]] Day 1 on the [[Hasbro Pulse]] YouTube channel.</ref>

: Revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2022, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy]]'' Alpha Trion is a hefty [[retool]] of ''[[Studio Series]]'' [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Studio Series|Scourge]], transforming into a Cybertronian hovercraft in 21 steps. This release uses new "wing" pieces in robot mode to resemble his cape from the original animation model; unfortunately, due to clearance issues with his new chest, those pieces do not fold up neatly into the vehicle mode undercarriage, so they just kind of sit there awkwardly and make him tilt forward when placed on a flat surface. Alpha Trion also utilizes the [[5 mm post]]-compatible open-palm hands from ''both'' Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)#Studio Series|Sweep]] redeco/retool, rather than having either of those molds' asymmetrical open/closed hand arrangements.

: Alpha Trion was only available in the "A Hero Is Born" two-pack with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Legacy|Orion Pax]], as well as a Vector Sigma accessory and the Key to Vector Sigma. The set went up for pre-order during [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022|Pulse Con 2022]], and began appearing at stores in Hong Kong shortly afterward.

: [[Taiwan]]ese fans who supported the [[Hasbro Pulse|HasLab]] [[Star Saber (G1)#Legacy|Victory Saber]] project ended up getting the "A Hero Is Born" set instead (along with a full refund) after their Victory Sabers were severely water damaged during shipment and could not be delivered. No, this set is nowhere near as cool. Sorry?<ref>{{citesocial|quote=People in Taiwan that preordered Haslab Victory Saber through Hasbro TW is getting their preorders cancelled because their batch had too much water damage during transport to be rendered acceptable. They're getting a full refund and a free Alpha Trion set to compensate. (2022) https://t.co/h2A26ZDcS0|link=https://twitter.com/TF_Moments/status/1570857553503948800/photo/1|name=Crazy ass moments in Transformers History|site=Twitter|year=2022|month=09|day=16|(defunct=)}}</ref>
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|You better believe people were excited for this in 2002.]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2002)
**''Act'': '''8'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

: The first "toy" of Alpha Trion ever made, this three-inch-tall [[plastic|PVC]] figurine was available in "Act 8" of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' line. Like all the figures in the wave, it was available as both a standard full-color figure and a metallic-silver "pewter" version, one of each of which was available in a standard case of twelve [[blindpacking|blindpacked]] figures.

: The pewter version of the figure has a potential problem with connector peg breakage, due to said pegs often getting a layer of pewter paint before being forced into a socket, leading to sticking and tearing. Care should be used when moving or removing the arms; shaving down the socket interior with a thin hobby knife is usually sufficient to fix the issue.

: Additionally, the pewter version of Alpha Trion came packaged with the left leg of the [[Scorponok (G1)#Super Collection Figure|Scorponok]] collectible "build-a-figure".

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/AlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on ''Super Collection Figure'' Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/PewterAlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on pewter Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''EX Gōkin''===
[[File:EX Gokin Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|You'd be scolding young 'bots too if you had a pole in your aft...]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2014)
**''Accessories:'' Two fists, two open hands, two gripping hands, right pointing hand, A-3 head, two A-3 shoulders, display stand

:Produced by [[Art Storm]] as part of their ''[[EX Gōkin]]'' line, this Alpha Trion is a 6-inch tall posable figure based on his cartoon [[character model]]. He comes with a plethora of extra hands and has an articulated cape that splits in two pieces for easier posing. Alpha Trion can (sort of) be turned into his younger self, A-3, by use of an alternate head based on his appearance in "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and two smaller, spike-less shoulderpads.

::*''[http://artstorm.co.jp/exgokin_transformersseries_alphatrion.html More information on ''EX Gōkin'' Alpha Trin at Art Storm's official site]''
{{--}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W3AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage''' (2019)
**'''Wave 3: War for Cybertron: Siege I'''
**''Rarity: '''''RT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T01/T48'''
**''Stars: ''11

: Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage is one of forty-eight double-sided character cards available in Wave 3 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], War for Cybertron: Siege I.
{{--}}

===''ReAction''===
*'''Alpha Trion''' (2020)

: Released in the second wave of [[Super7]]'s line of multi-property 3.75-inch "retro" action figures, ''[[ReAction]]'' Alpha Trion is a non-converting 3 3/4-inch action figure based on his appearance in the original cartoon, with 5 points of articulation (swivel neck, shoulders, hips) and holes in his feet for use with some variety of stand. Unlike most releases in this line, he lacks an accessory (but both of his hands are open to enable him to hold one), but he does have a thin vinyl cape which is not removable (at least, not without breaking it).

: As with all releases in the ''ReAction'' toyline, Alpha Trion comes packaged on a small cardback that emulates the nostalgic packaging style of [[Kenner]]'s ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' action figures from the late 1970s to early '80s.

{{-}}

===''Transformers Character Card''===
[[File:Transformers Character Card Matrix and Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1|thumb]]
*'''Alpha Trin & Convoy Set''' ([[April 22]], [[2023]])
**''ID number:'' '''49 & 50'''

:Released as part of the seventh wave of the [[e-HOBBY]] exclusive ''[[Transformers Character Card]]'' series, this pair of holographic trading cards depict super-deformed art of "Alpha Trin" and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] touting the [[Matrix of Leadership]] along with [[bio|character profiles]] and [[Tech Spec|tech specs]].
::*''[[Source:Transformers Character Card#49|Translation of Alpha Trion's Transformers Character Card]]''
{{-}}

===Jada Toys===
*'''Transformers Series 3 18-pack''' (4 cm Die Cast Figure Multipack, 2023)
:Released by [[Jada Toys]], ''Nano Metalfigs'' Alpha Trion is an incredibly small die-cast figurine molded doing an action pose. He has a little base attached to his feet for balancing reasons.

:He comes in an impressive multipack with [[Jada Toys#Nano Metalfigs|seventeen other figurines]].

{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:Alpha_Trion_through_the_epochs.jpg|thumb|Once you go white, you'll never, er... be right?]]
* Alpha Trion is one of the very few Cybertronians to show signs of aging and [[Facial hair|hair growth]].
* According to a timeline in the January 1987 issue of ''[[Comic Bom Bom]]'', A-3 was the first successful robot by Vector Sigma, [[A-1 (G1)|A-1]] and [[A-2]] being failures. However, the presence of Cybertronians within the Matrix of Leadership older than Alpha Trion (as seen in "[[The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2|The Return of Optimus Prime]]") makes the actual [[canon]]icity of this questionable.
* Alpha Trion may be named after the {{w|Triple-Alpha Process}}, the method through which carbon is created, which in turn is the reason (human) life came to be. Given that Alpha Trion essentially "created" Optimus Prime, who in turn formed the Autobots, this is actually quite fitting.
* Alpha Trion had a hover-craft [[alternate mode]] designed for his appearance in ''[[The Transformers: Ironhide]]'', but ultimately didn't end up transforming in that mini-series. The vehicle mode was first revealed in the trade paperback's extras, and would eventually be used in-continuity as part of a flashback sequence in "[[Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb]]" and in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]]'' episode "[[Megatron Origins]]".

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Alpha Trin''' (アルファートリン ''Arufā Torin''), '''Alpha Trion''' (アルファトライオン ''Arufa Toraion'')
*''Hebrew:'' '''Alpha Trion''' (אלפא טריון, "Alpha Trion")
*''Hungarian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Indonesian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Alpha Tellion''' (Taiwan, 阿法特利昂 ''Āfǎ Tèlìáng''), '''Tài Shīfù''' (China, 钛师傅, "Master Titanium")

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:ImAlphaTrionsHovercraftMode.jpg|IDW ''Ironhide'' unused alternate mode concept art
File:TR-Alpha Trion-packaging art.jpg|Hasbro ''Titans Return'' packaging art
File:EW-skin-Alpha Trion-Ghost.jpg|''Earth Wars'' ghost skin
</gallery>

==References==
{{Reflist}}

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Beast Machines Autobots]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Autobots]]
[[Category:Ghosts]]
[[Category:Go! Go! Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Kre-O Autobots]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Legacy Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Mini-Cons]]
[[Category:Prime Masters]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Titans Return Autobots]]
[[Category:Transformers Character Card]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game Autobots]]
[[Category:Triple Changers]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege characters]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Autobots]]

Vector Prime

2024-12-18T16:18:17Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */ Linking the event related to the Prime cores.

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-VectorPrime.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Vector Prime}}|autobot|autobotg2|guardian}}
{{featured}}
[[File:VectorPrime dvd.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|He gives a new meaning to the term "grandfather clock".]]
'''Vector Prime''' is [[Primus]]'s appointed guardian of time and space. Though recorded history pegs him as 25 million years old,<ref>[[Revelations Part 4]]</ref> he has identified himself as 9 billion years old,<ref name="AVP">[[Ask Vector Prime]]</ref> making the clockwork-covered Transformer one of the [[Thirteen]]. He's so old that in many timelines, the locals have called him "the First Autobot".<ref>[[Ask Vector Prime]], 11 September 2015: "Come to think of it, in many timelines, I was not called "Vector Prime" but "The First Autobot." Indeed, this was from time-to-time shortened to simply "Autobot," though usually as an invective hurled at me."</ref> Despite his age, Vector Prime is very powerful, and can warp both space and time, though excessive use of this power can severely weaken him. His powers allow him to traverse the [[multiverse]] at will, allowing Vector Prime to track and record events across a countless number of realities.

Vector Prime was once a holder of the [[Matrix of Leadership]]<ref name="AVP">[[Ask Vector Prime]]</ref> before he left [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to guard space and time, a lonely job which isolated him from Cybertronian culture for tens of millions of years. Though he has rejoined the timestream on occasion to protect it from large-scale dangers,<ref>[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]</ref> his extraordinary exile has left him emotionally, culturally, and politically disconnected from his race. He speaks in archaic terminology steeped in chivalry from an age long past, which has led [[Transcendent Technomorph|some]] to believe him to be little more than a doddering relic (a front he admittedly finds useful at times). Despite this disconnect, Vector Prime never forgets that these strange modern creatures are the reason he guards space and time so fiercely. It is the miracle of time that allows these precious lives to continue and flourish across the multiverse.

Vector Prime has a "Guardian [[Mini-Con]]" called [[Safeguard (Cybertron)|Safeguard]], and is also responsible for the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]].

{{bigquote|I finally understand the true value of time, for it is the bonds between us that give time its meaning.|Vector Prime's last words|"[[Guardian (episode)|Guardian]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Unicron Trilogy continuity family===
====Fun Publications comics====
[[File:Vectorprimeut.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Hey, I can see THE DAWN OF TIME from here! Hi, Phil!]]
Vector Prime was created by Primus at the very beginning of its struggle with Unicron, 'drawn from the sublime material of a multiverse at the far end of entropy'. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 5|Vector Prime's profile in Club magazine #5}} During the long dormancy of [[Primus]] and [[Unicron]] at the beginning of time, Vector Prime retreated from the march of history to prepare for when his skills would once again be called upon. From this isolation he watched the greatest victories and defeats of the Transformers across various timelines, intervening only when his hand was needed to preserve the balance of time. (For example, Vector Prime helped mend [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and repair the [[The Agenda (Part III)|timestorm]] that [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]] [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] had unleashed in the [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]].) However, the awakening of Primus and Unicron returned Vector Prime to active service, following the wake of Unicron across the multiverse to prevent or restore what damage the Dark God had inflicted with its contaminating presence.

After the [[Transformers: Energon (cartoon)|Powerlinx Battles]], Primus attempted to lock Unicron's essence away in the center of a newborn sun, but this plan backfired and the sun collapsed into a black hole, also known as the [[Unicron Singularity]]. This threatened the multiverse itself, so Vector Prime was called back to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to assist the Autobots in locating artifacts which would destroy the black hole. {{storylink|Vector Prime: In the Beginning}}

[[File:Vectorprimeutramjet.jpg|thumb|Hey, we got swords. Let's parry.]]
During the Autobots' search, Vector Prime would routinely confer with [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|Alpha Trion]] on their progress. During one such visit, Unicron's heralds [[Ramjet (Universe)|Ramjet]] and [[Nemesis Prime (Universe)|Nemesis Prime]] attacked Cybertron, prompting Alpha Trion to recruit some extra-dimensional help in the form of [[Sentinel Maximus]]. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} No sooner had Maximus arrived than Ramjet and Nemesis came blasting into Alpha Trion's chamber; Vector duelled with Ramjet, but was unable to prevent him from heavily damaging Alpha Trion and destroying [[Vector Sigma]]. {{storylink|Balancing Act}} After placing Alpha Trion in a repair chamber, Vector Prime explained to Sentinel Maximus the extent of the peril they faced; it was Ramjet's plan that Nemesis Prime would unleash his [[Dead Matrix]] to destroy their Creator. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 2}} Deducting that their opponents would likely next strike at the [[Kalis Primary Energon Reserves Control]], Vector Prime and his allies preemptively traveled there to defend it. Sure enough, another one of Unicron's pawns, [[Scorponok (Energon)|Dark Scorponok]], soon turned up and attacked the facility. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 3}} Dark Scorponok was felled, but Vector Prime came to realize that the shambling creature had acted as a distraction while Ramjet and Nemesis Prime had made their way towards their true target: the chamber housing Primus's essence, deep within Cybertron. Vector Prime opened a warp gate and traveled with Sentinel Maximus to head off their enemies before the wicked machinations came to fruition. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 4}} Vector Prime and Ramjet's fight left the chamber and took them high above Cybertron. Ramjet offered Vector Prime another option to his plan: it was within Vector Prime's power to restore Unicron from the Singularity, dooming this Cybertron but saving all others. Vector Prime refused, claiming that they could restore balance to the multiverse without saving Unicron. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Pt 5}} Though Vector Prime was able to defeat Ramjet and seal him away in another dimension, {{storylink|Revelations Part 1}} this act weakened him considerably. The guardian of space and time returned to the Autobots on [[Earth]] and left Cybertron in the care of [[Over-Run (Armada)|Over-Run]], a Mini-Con who had taken the reins of what remained of Vector Sigma. {{storylink|Revelations Part 2}}

While on Cybertron of [[Primax 509.28 Epsilon]], [[Nexus Prime]] decided to tell his companion [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] about the ancient artifact he was trying to find, the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]]. As he explained to Aquarius that the artifact was originally intended to serve good Transformers, the face of Vector Prime flashed through his mind. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}} Eventually, Nexus succeeded in finding all the pieces of the shattered sword, and united the rebuilt blade with the [[Terminus Blade]] with the intention of strengthening the multiverse and making the walls between dimensions less permeable. Vector Prime and the rest of the Thirteen were drawn to this momentous event from across space and time, but as a consequence of Nexus's actions, Vector and his brothers and sisters ceased to exist as multiversal singularities. They were splintered into infinite variations of themselves and scattered throughout the multiverse, sentient reoccurring themes each appearing in their own way, if at all, in all the worlds of the multiverse. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

====''Cybertron'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Richard Newman]] (English), [[Show Hayami]] (Japanese)|[[Joscha Fischer-Antze]] (German), [[Sepuh Apikian]] (Armenian), [[Ossi Valo]] (Finnish), [[Fredrik Beckmann]] (Swedish), [[Michel Dodane]] (French), [[Davide Marzi]] (Italian), [[Salvador Serrano]] (Castilian Spanish), [[José Mendez]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Mariusz Leszczyński]] (Polish), [[Phil Cruz]] (Tagalog, HERO TV dub)}}

[[File:Cyb ep47 outside of time.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Twelfth Doctor, Transformerfied]]

Vector Prime spent much of his existence outside the linear flow of time, observing reality from afar. When he sensed the effect of the [[Unicron Singularity]] upon the timestream, he attempted to voyage further into the future to see what the outcome would be, only to strike a barrier which he found he could not pass beyond. Peering through the barrier and seeing only endless nothingness, Vector Prime realized that the black hole would go on to consume all space and time if he did not finally leave the safety of his extra-dimensional realm and re-enter the linear flow of time to help seal it. {{storylink|Guardian (episode)|Guardian}} Appearing in the skies over Cybertron, Vector Prime immediately made contact with Optimus Prime and his Autobot team, making them aware of the Cyber Planet Keys and how they could stop the black hole. As Vector Prime then synchronized his map of the keys’ locations to the current arrangement of the cosmos, he was approached by the evil [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]], who exploited Vector Prime's diminished memory of the Autobot/Decepticon conflict and convinced him to hand over the map. Alas, Vector Prime realized his mistake just as the other Autobots arrived to attack Megatron. The villain made good his escape, but not before his lieutenant [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] caused Autobot warrior [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] to be caught in the black hole's gravitational pull, forcing Vector Prime to open a portal to save him, transporting him to [[Earth]].

[[File:Cyb ep1 loris shirt.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|"This is Clara, my carer. She cares so I don't have to."]]

Vector Prime joined with [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]'s Autobots in relocating to Earth. En route, Vector Prime explained to Optimus that the black hole threatened not only Cybertron, but would go on to swallow all of creation if not dealt with. He then doubled back, explaining he had to retrieve the cosmic map Megatron had stolen. Optimus Prime insisted on having [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]], [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]], and [[Overhaul (Cybertron)|Overhaul]] accompany him, deeming the task too dangerous for Vector Prime to handle on his own. Vector Prime's team came upon Megatron and Starscream inside an asteroid belt. While Jetfire and Vector Prime dealt with Starscream, Overhaul and Hot Shot tackled Megatron. Unfortunately, the Decepticons proved to be simply too powerful, and the Autobots were unable to prevent them from escaping once more. Vector Prime then rendezvoused with Optimus back on Earth, where the Autobots had already befriended three human children. Upon meeting these humans, Vector Prime recognized a symbol decorating the T-shirt of the female, [[Lori Jiménez|Lori]], as the pattern of the Omega Lock, the device that focused the power of the Cyber Planet Keys, and deduced that it lay in hiding somewhere on Earth. {{storylink|Fallen (episode)|Fallen}} {{storylink|Inferno (episode)|Inferno}}

Vector Prime then aided his Autobot allies in building their base of operations on Earth. During the blasting that preceded construction, he discovered that the children were able to hear the [[Omega Frequency]], the trans-sonic signal given off by the Omega Lock that was inaudible to the Autobots. This would make them invaluable in the search for the artifact. As the base neared completion, Megatron and Starscream were detected heading towards Earth once again. The base's stealth coating had yet to be fully applied, and so Vector Prime joined Optimus, Jetfire, and Hot Shot in keeping the villains out of sensor range while the rest of the team finished this task. Vector Prime used the power of a Cyber Planet Key to send the Decepticon leader and his lackey fleeing, awing his comrades. Having deemed them worthy, Vector Prime then granted Optimus, Hot Shot, and Jetfire the ability to also summon their own Cyber Planet Keys. {{storylink|Haven}}

Walking in on the Autobots receiving word that the latest attempt at collapsing the black hole had failed, Vector Prime reiterated that they needed to track down the keys to the Omega Lock. The Autobots were doubtful at first, but Red Alert spoke up on Vector Prime's behalf, convincing his comrades that the keys should be their priority. Thundercracker was then detected by the airforce, forcing Vector Prime to help take him down before he caused too much trouble. He saved two human pilots from the Decepticon by opening a temporal portal for them to escape through. Megatron and Starscream then joined the battle, and explained that they had already found the first of the Cyber Planet Keys before they were forced away. {{storylink|Hidden}}

Further studies on the Omega Lock's pattern around the world led the Autobots to a museum in Mexico. While Vector Prime studied the artifacts within it, the rest of the team held off Thundercracker and Starscream, who had been tracking them. This Omega Lock turned out to be merely an imitation, but Vector Prime's scans yielded the co-ordinates of [[Velocitron]], the Speed Planet, resting place of the first Cyber Planet Key. Using his sword in conjunction with Optimus Prime's Matrix, Vector Prime opened a portal to this other world, through which Hot Shot and Red Alert were sent as an advance party. {{storylink|Landmine (episode)|Landmine}} The search for the Omega Lock next took the Autobots to the [[United Kingdom|British Isles]]. They excavated an ancient druid site, only to be met with another dead end. Once more, they were pestered by Starscream and Thundercracker, who managed to isolate Vector Prime and Optimus from their ground-based reinforcements. Though Starscream was fighting more strategically however, the Primes managed to lure their opponents close enough to the ground to overpower them and force them into another retreat. {{storylink|Space (episode)|Space}} Vector Prime teamed up with Landmine to continue searching for the Omega Lock, but returned from their excursion with nothing to show for it. That evening, Lori alerted the Autobots to a strange beacon emanating from a nearby forest, depicting the Lock's "Atlantis Pattern". Vector Prime and the team sped off to what seemed like a lucky break at last, only to find that the signal had been created by the Decepticons to lure them into a trap. As Optimus took on the enemy, Jolt reported that humans were inbound to their location. As neither side wanted to be discovered by more of the locals, the battle was brought to an abrupt halt, and all combatants withdrew. {{storylink|Speed}}

[[File:Cyb ep9 time slip.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.67|But where's Cringer, his fearless friend?]]

Jetfire and Vector Prime were contacted by Scattorshot and Optimus to alert them of an emergency in [[Rockville]]: the nearby [[Mount McDermott]] was about to collapse into an underwater reservoir, which would lead to a catastrophic flooding of the entire town. Thankfully, Coby came up with a plan to drain the reservoir, and the Autobots created a controlled collapse of the mountain to prevent further harm from coming to Rockville. After this plan was successfully implemented, Vector Prime congratulated his comrades on a job well done. {{storylink|Collapse}}

Returning to the search for the Omega Lock, Vector Prime next headed for a tropical island, allowing the children to tag along for a mini-vacation of sorts. This turned out to be another false lead. Before heading off to their next destination, Vector Prime took the time to discuss his temporal powers with the children, informing them that though they might seem impressive, they had become limited in his old age. The group next headed for the [[Sahara]], where they were joined by Optimus and Jetfire. There, they found what appeared to be the Omega Lock on open display within some ancient ruins. But the Decepticons had been following them, and the battle for the artifact had catastrophic consequences: Megatron's managed to kill the Mini-Cons! Distraught over their untimely demise, Vector Prime drew on a greater portion of his powers for the first time in ages. He rewound time to save the Mini-Cons, though the resulting drain on his systems left him too weak to continue fighting. The lock in question was proven to be a fake. {{storylink|Time (episode)|Time}}

[[File:Cyb ep11 control room.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]

After rescuing an Autobot civilian from Thundercracker, the Autobots were led to another iteration of the Atlantis pattern. The inscription detailed the coordinates to the next planet where a Cyber Planet Key was hidden: the [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Jungle Planet]]. Vector Prime opened a dimension gate to transport Overhaul and Landmine to this new world, but was struck by the returning Thundercracker before Landmine could traverse the portal. Due to his injuries, Vector Prime couldn't open up another dimension gate, leaving Overhaul stranded on an alien world alone. {{storylink|Search (episode)|Search}} Shortly afterwards, another Autobot civilian alerted Optimus Prime's team to another sighting of the Atlantis seal, this time on the ocean bottom in the [[Bermuda Triangle]]. Making their way underwater, the Autobots explored the area. Vector Prime, the Mini-Cons and the children found an entrance leading to a control room, and the elder Cybertronian concluded that Atlantis was in fact an ancient Cybertronian ship that had crashed in Earth's prehistory. In order to keep it out of the Decepticons' reach, Vector Prime activated the craft and teleported it away with only himself, the kids and Mini-Cons aboard. {{storylink|Deep}} Using the children's sensitivity to the Omega Frequency, Vector Prime tracked down the Omega Lock in the bowels of the ''Atlantis''. Though Megatron appeared to claim the relic for himself, activating the ship's self-destruct mechanism in the process, Optimus caught up to his old foe and dueled him for the Omega Lock. Meanwhile, Vector Prime took the children to safety. Optimus emerged victorious. When Vector Prime laid hands on the Omega Lock afterwards, it created a new spacebridge network, linking all of the planets hosting Cyber Planet Keys. Vector Prime accompanied Optimus and Landmine to the Speed Planet in response to a distress call from Red Alert. {{storylink|Ship}}

There, he observed [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] try to win the world's Cyber Planet Key in a racing tournament. {{storylink|Hero (episode)|Hero}} He did not actually participate-mainly because his vehicle mode lacked wheels-but he offered encouragement and advice when he could. {{storylink|Race}} The races were intense enough to get even him worked up, although he did his best to restrain his enthusiasm to Optimus Prime's mild amusement. {{storylink|Detour (episode)|Detour}}

[[File:Cyb ep16 feed me seymour.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|But whatever they offer you, don't feed the plants!]]

While Hot Shot trained for a particularly grueling track, the Autobots received a transmission urging them to come to the [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Jungle Planet]] to help [[Overhaul (Cybertron)|Overhaul]], sent there in advance to seek out the second Cyber Planet Key. [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] offered to go, but Vector Prime and Optimus decided to make the trip, as they could open the dimension gate necessary to go there anyway. When they arrived, they were attacked by a massive plant monster, but Overhaul-now in the form of Leobreaker-saved them with his claws. Vector Prime joined Optimus in explaining the black hole's threat to Leobreaker's new friends, [[Snarl (Cybertron)|Snarl]] and [[Backstop (Cybertron)|Backstop]], but was confused to learn that they had not, in fact, sent a distress signal at all. He then joined the others in confronting world leader [[Scourge (Cybertron)|Scourge]], battling [[Sideways (Armada)|Sideways]] (who had sent the distress signal simply to watch the factions battle) and witnessing Optimus and Leobreaker's first combination into Savage Claw Mode. {{storylink|Savage}}

[[File:Cyb ep9 meteor attack.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Hitting you where the sun definitely shines.]]

Soon after, Vector Prime and the other Autobots met Scourge and Megatron's forces in another battle, lured into a canyon thanks to Sideways's trickery. He was also among the 'bots who watched Leobreaker's attempted interrogation of the two-faced trickster when the battle ended, {{storylink|Sand}} and returned to Velocitron in time to stop Megatron from stealing the Planet Cup after Hot Shot defeated Override in the final race. {{storylink|Champion}}

While most of the Autobots went back to Earth to investigate a disturbance created by the Omega Lock, Vector Prime returned to the Jungle Planet with Optimus Prime and Leobreaker, intending to secure the second Cyber Planet Key. {{storylink|Ice}} Their attempt to reason with Scourge failed miserably, leading to Leobreaker separating from Optimus mid-speech and futilely attacking the dragon-bot himself. With the lion storming off in a huff, Vector Prime accompanied Optimus back to Backstop's cave, where he learned of Scourge's beginnings as a student of Backstop's. Vector Prime was also present at the volcano Leobreaker had chosen to seclude himself in, and witnessed his reconciliation with Optimus Prime, the latter at last deciding to face Scourge in battle. {{storylink|Honor}} The Autobots ran into a Decepticon ambush en route to Scourge's temple, and Vector Prime had to use his sword to free the beast 'bots and Hot Shot from a net. He later stood back and watched Optimus and Leobreaker finally defeat Scourge in battle, winning the right to take the Cyber Planet Key. {{storylink|Primal (Cybertron)|Primal}}

[[File:Cyb ep22 autobots together.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]

Unfortunately, Megatron led his Decepticons on an immediate counterattack, desperate to obtain the Planet Key. While most of the Autobots fended off Starscream and Thundercracker, Vector Prime came up with a plan to splinter the Decepticons. He distributed boxes amongst the Autobots, with the key's location unknown to even them, and bade them scatter to force the Decepticons to spread out. Vector Prime himself came face-to-visor with Sideways, intent on acquiring the "key". The enigmatic jet managed to steal the box, warping around Vector Prime and bypassing Safeguard with his faction-switching abilities, but learned it was a fake when he found naught but a rock inside. He later joined the rest of the Autobots in fending off Megatron and Starscream's attempted theft of the true key. {{storylink|Trust (Cybertron)|Trust}}

[[File:Cyb ep22 shell game.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1]]

The insertion of the Jungle Planet Key into the Omega Lock transported the Autobots into a strange dimension that Vector Prime identified as the consciousness of Primus. The god himself briefly spoke to them through the Mini-Cons before fading away, and a signal again alerted them to something in the North Pole. {{storylink|Trap}} Unfortunately, what came out of the North was Starscream, Sideways, and ''legions'' of [[Ancient Decepticon]]s, hell-bent on finding the Cyber Planet Key hidden on Earth. Vector Prime soon joined the fray, using his sword to warp in the main Autobot forces to back Snarl up. The Autobots were eventually forced to fall back, but made two new allies in the form of [[Crosswise (Cybertron)|Crosswise]] and [[Evac (Cybertron)|Evac]]. {{storylink|Invasion (episode)|Invasion}}

Knowing that Starscream would come looking for the Omega Lock and the other two Keys, the Autobots established a communications blackout, using a direct link to the human telephone network to keep the refugee Autobots calm. Vector Prime soon brought up another worry, however-the children and Mini-Cons were missing! The kids soon returned, bringing the eccentric scientist [[Lucy Suzuki]] with them, but [[Jolt (Cybertron)|Jolt]]'s advance transmission about the government's knowledge of the Autobots allowed Sideways to find the Autobot's base. With no other option, Optimus Prime led a full retreat to Velocitron while Evac retrieved the Cyber Planet Key of Earth, but Starscream followed them up the space bridge and launched a one-bot assault to claim the artifacts for himself. Vector Prime was the last to stand in the Decepticon's way, vowing to give up his spark before he relinquished the Lock. Despite being blackened and battered from previous attacks, Starscream still managed to take down the ancient guardian of time, stealing the Lock and all three Planet Keys. {{storylink|Retreat}}

Vector Prime was present at the Autobot's base when it received a strange signal after Starscream inserted the third Cyber Planet Key. Enlisting the aid of [[Red Alert (Armada)|Red Alert]] to decrypt it, he reported that it came from Cybertron itself, instructing them to return the Lock and Keys to the planet itself. Unfortunately, the part about ''what'' happens when the Lock is returned was lost due to interference from the black hole-and worse yet, Megatron's Decepticons were on their way to Earth to settle their own grudge with Starscream. Vector Prime generated a warp to speed his allies' trip to [[Niagara Falls]], and found himself battling the traitorous Autobot [[Mudflap (Cybertron)|Mudflap]]. He was shocked to discover that Landmine had practically raised the disgruntled warrior back on Cybertron...and even more dismayed to see Megatron cut down Hot Shot, Red Alert, and Scattorshot with a single volley from his newly unlocked Cyber Key machine gun. {{storylink|Revelation (episode)|Revelation}}

[[File:Cyb ep27 giant vector.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtkGtXtDlQA Lets go on a journey / a journey through all time / a TIME that's changing all the TIME / it's TIME to go to TIME!]]]

While others kept Megatron busy, Vector Prime evacuated the fallen warriors, assuring the pessimistic Scattorshot that they'd be fine. Upon returning to the battlefield, however, he grimly informed Optimus Prime that the situation of the trio was dire at best. Thankfully, Hot Shot, Scattorshot, and Red Alert recovered and reformatted, returning as the powerful [[Cybertron Defense Team (Cybertron)|Cybertron Defense Team]]. They kept the Decepticons occupied while Vector Prime warped Optimus, Override, and Evac to Starscream's newly discovered island base. {{storylink|Critical}}

Megatron's forces soon made a break for the island, causing Vector Prime to warp the rest of his team into the fray as well. He and Optimus pursued Megatron into a volcano, and Vector Prime saved Optimus' life by blocking Megatron's shots with his own body. They would have both met their ends nonetheless, had [[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Saber]] not chosen that moment to join the party as well. In response to Coby's warning that the black hole was distorting the space around Cybertron, Vector Prime would suggest sending an advance team to clear a path for the return of the Omega Lock. {{storylink|Assault}}

[[File:Cyb ep28 vector takes the hit.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]

The two Primes continued their descent into the volcano, soon joined by Leobreaker. Vector Prime used a small warp to redirect one of Sideways's traps, hitting Scourge instead of them. When they finally met Sideways in battle, Vector Prime had the novel idea of attaching Safeguard to the warping enigma's back, allowing him to detect where Sideways would appear. When Starscream manifested himself as a giant, courtesy of Primus' stolen power, Vector Prime was trapped in the volcano, unable to move and with his sword out of reach. Wing Saber came to his rescue, and the pair escaped with the Omega Lock after fending off [[Thunderblast (Decepticon)|Thunderblast]]. {{storylink|Starscream (episode)|Starscream}} After seeing the Lock off with Leobreaker, Evac, and Override, he continued fighting against Starscream, and witnessed Optimus' combination with Wing Saber into Sonic Wing Mode to defeat the behemoth. {{storylink|United (episode)|United}}

With Starscream defeated, Vector Prime joined the rest of the Autobots in crossing the space bridge to Cybertron. They engaged Megatron, who managed to escape with the Omega Lock, but Optimus Prime battled him for possession of the Lock and keys within [[Fire dimension|Megatron's personal fiery dimension]]. At Optimus' order, Vector Prime used his portal-generating abilities to collapse the dimension in upon itself, forcing Megatron to use all his power just to keep it open. Combining his own power with that of the Lock, Vector Prime fired a beam straight into the occupied Decepticon, apparently destroying Megatron. Vector Prime later encouraged Optimus to place the Lock within Cybertron-and the planet started coming apart beneath their feet. After evacuating the team to a nearby moon, Vector Prime realized that the planet wasn't separating; it was transforming into Primus himself! {{storylink|Cybertron (episode)|Cybertron}}

After Primus revealed that the fourth Cyber Planet Key rested on [[Gigantion]], homeworld of the Recon Mini-Con Team, Vector Prime recounted how he met the diminutive Transformers when they were lost playing hide-and-seek. He joined his friends in confronting the Decepticons (tenuously led by Scourge), and then joined everyone in gaping at Starscream's brazen attack on Primus himself. Vector Prime doubted Starscream's sanity for daring to attack their creator, but Primus' disposal of the treacherous jet allowed Vector Prime to finally regain the Planet Map. {{storylink|Balance}}

Sadly, a series of problems presented themselves after this small victory; Megatron returned in a mysterious ghost-like form, and the Mini-Cons seemingly disappeared along with the children. Vector Prime left to investigate the latter development, and reviewed the security camera footage at their headquarters. Discovering that Sideways had stolen the Mini-Cons and that the children had pursued him, Vector Prime requested Scattorshot and Red Alert's aid in locating them. {{storylink|Darkness (episode)|Darkness}} Continuing to work as the battle raged outside {{storylink|Memory (Cybertron)|Memory}}, they finally received a signal from the kids, reporting that they were trapped on the ''Atlantis'' in the shadow of Earth's moon. Vector Prime led Scattorshot and Red Alert through a warp gate to the ship and caught an escape pod carrying Coby, Lori, and [[Six-Speed (Cybertron)|Six-Speed]]. Unfortunately, the other pod (carrying Bud, Jolt, and [[Reverb (Cybertron)|Reverb]]) was caught in the warp field of the ''Atlantis'' before the Autobots could retrieve it and was teleported away to parts unknown. {{storylink|Escape (episode)|Escape}}

[[File:Cyb ep36 autobots revealed.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Predicting that the ''Atlantis'' would be heading for Gigantion, Vector Prime reassured Coby and Lori that their friends would be fine in the warp gate to the planet, thanks to their flexible minds. Transformers, however, are not so flexible, and so Red Alert began working on a stabilizing program, partially based on Vector Prime's sword. Vector Prime would join Optimus Prime in convincing the kids' doubting parents to allow Coby and Lori to join them on the trip to Gigantion. He also denied their fathers' wish to go as well, citing the requirement of an open mind (which the adults had just proven they lacked), but joined Optimus in promising to protect the children with his life. {{storylink|Family}}

With the children's assistance cemented, Vector Prime began rigorously studying the Planet Map for the location of the dimensional rift that led to Gigantion. He discovered the gate just after Primus defeated a superpowered Starscream, {{storylink|Titans}} informing the others that the gate was open for only a few days every year. After again reminding Coby and Lori about their immunity to the warp's effects, he helped load supplies onto the newly arrived ''[[Ogygia (Cybertron)|Ogygia]]'' starship. After receiving his copy of the stabilizing program via injection (and observing Primus shooting down Jetfire's attempt to avoid getting one), Vector Prime boarded the ''Ogygia'' as it entered the warp, warning everyone that even the slightest moment of doubt or fear could destabilize the tunnel. After an unpleasant encounter with the Starscream-controlled ''Atlantis'', he joined his comrades in blasting a hole through a massive asteroid in the ''Ogygia''{{'}}s path before finally arriving in the dimension of Gigantion. {{storylink|Warp}}

After landing on the Giant Planet, Vector Prime joined the search for the Cyber Planet Key, and came up empty-handed. When the Autobots met planet leader [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|Metroplex]] and his lieutenant [[Quickmix (Cybertron)|Quickmix]], neither of whom allowed them access to the lower levels of the planet, Vector Prime attempted to create a warp, but found he could not due to security measures around the planet. After a confrontation with Megatron's goons, now including rebellious Gigantion native [[Menasor (Cybertron)|Menasor]] and enigmatic impersonator [[Soundwave (Cybertron)|Soundwave]], Metroplex and Quickmix were more willing to cooperate, {{storylink|Giant}} but admitted that they deleted all data on the lower levels from their memories to escape their past.

[[File:Cyb ep45 save the universe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Undeterred, the team set up equipment to help Vector Prime determine the general location of the Cyber Planet Key. Using the Omega Lock, Vector Prime found the Key, but also realized that someone else had drawn power from it. Fearing the worst, the Autobots split into teams, with Vector Prime accompanying Optimus and Metroplex. Unfortunately, this allowed them to be picked off by Megatron, who had used the Cyber Planet Key to upgrade himself. By the time Optimus's team caught up with the Decepticon leader, he had dealt with every other Autobot, completed his transformation, and renamed himself Galvatron! In this state, he struck down Vector Prime with a single blow, and only the combined strength of Optimus Prime and Metroplex was enough to force his retreat. {{storylink|Fury (Cybertron)|Fury}}

When Scattorshot determined that there were four potential routes to the Cyber Planet Key, the Autobots again split up to cover all of the paths. Vector Prime teamed up with Optimus, Metroplex, Bud, and the Mini-Cons to travel down one of the trails. He joined Optimus in pursuit of Ransack and Crumplezone when the bumbling lackeys snatched Jolt, unable to fire for fear of hurting his friend, and gave Coby an approving thumbs-up when he dramatically transformed [[Cobybot|his personal mech]] to save Jolt. {{storylink|City}} After that, the journey was mostly uneventful, save for watching the Velocitronian partners in grime get beaten up and sent off (repeatedly), {{storylink|Ambush (episode)|Ambush}} and meeting up with Lori and Override. {{storylink|Challenge}}

When Bud and the Mini-Cons accidentally fell down a secret passage, Vector Prime remained with the group, as Optimus claimed they would be more effective as a team searching for their lost comrades. When they found their small friends, Bud had given Scourge an eye-opening talk, and the Jungle Planet leader immediately challenged them all to a duel (for reasons only they seemed to understand). Vector Prime was the second opponent, and easily defeated the dragon, who nonetheless challenged the next comer with enthusiasm. {{storylink|Scourge (episode)|Scourge}}

[[File:Cyb ep45 matrix glow.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|"Two hearts beat as one..."]]

At last, the Autobots reached the central, organic layer of Gigantion, where the Cyber Planet Key rested in the ancient starship ''[[Lemuria (Cybertron)|Lemuria]]''. Unfortunately, both Galvatron and Starscream chose that moment to make their appearances, and the former's taunts were enough to force Optimus into a breakdown of self-doubt. Finding his best logic to the contrary useless, Vector Prime was forced to drastic measures: ''punching'' Optimus in the face. Berating his peer for his arrogance, Vector Prime explained that Optimus' men trust him with their lives, but ''he'' has to trust ''them'' to do their jobs. His words snapped Prime out of his momentary funk, and the duo continued on in time to see a super-sized Landmine defeat Starscream and engage Galvatron. The combined strength of the Autobots was enough to send the Decepticon leader into retreat, leaving Optimus to claim the Cyber Planet Key and thank Vector Prime for his support (and comment on his mean right hook). {{storylink|Optimus (episode)|Optimus}}

Vector Prime personally inserted the final key into the Omega Lock, opening a path to their home universe (via opening the planet layers and creating a space bridge). Barring their path, however, was Galvatron, intent on taking the now-completed Lock and achieving his dark plans. Vector Prime moved to stop him, but was aghast to learn that Galvatron could warp-as well as summon a massive blast that sent all the Autobots sprawling. With the Lock in Decepticon hands, Vector Prime made a final attempt to take it back, but Galvatron simply electrocuted the ancient Transformer through his own sword and knocked him back. Perhaps due to this beating, Vector Prime was only able to watch Galvatron's apocalyptic confrontation with Starscream and subsequent escape through the space bridge. He theorized that Starscream (and the two Planet X survivors also caught in the final clash of superpowered Decepticons) had been blasted into ''another'' dimension rather than destroyed, but bigger concerns arose when the gate between universes closed, leaving the Autobots stranded on Gigantion. {{storylink|Showdown (Cybertron)|Showdown}}

[[File:Cyb ep47 vector prime dies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|I'll see you in another life, brother!]]

In the wake of this shock, Vector Prime was the only Autobot with any ideas on what to do, but Jolt, seemingly aware of what was coming, insisted against it. Instead, an attempt to create a space bridge generator was made, but Vector Prime was forced to destroy it after it released hordes of [[Laserbeak (Cybertron)|bird-like drone robots]]. Optimus assured Vector Prime that he had done the right thing, but it was realized by all that the only way back was through the warp, which would not open again for a year. With no other options, Vector Prime revealed the only way to get back to Cybertron was for him to reverse time to the point where the warp to Gigantion was open. Jolt cut in to point out that the effort would be enough to destroy him-in the conventional sense, anyways. Despite this, Vector Prime was adamant, knowing that the black hole would destroy all of time itself if left unchecked. In preparation for this final act, he released Safeguard, telling his old partner to live on Cybertron with the other Mini-Cons, gave his Planet Map to Bud, and told Optimus Prime that it was an honor to work with him. As the three Autobot starships took off, Vector Prime gave it his all to get his allies back to Cybertron, finally returning them to their own dimension before his energy gave out and his body dissolved into green particles of light. {{storylink|Guardian (episode)|Guardian}} Primus was aware of Vector Prime's sacrifice and assured Optimus Prime that Vector Prime would live on and that he would be honoured by the closing of the black hole. {{storylink|Homecoming (episode)|Homecoming}}

[[File:Cyb ep49 vector ghost.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Remember, the force will be with you. Always...]]

However, as Vector Prime had already explained to the Autobots, since he had existed for most of his life outside of time, he would ''always'' exist there, able to observe the passage of time, even though he could now no longer enter the linear universe. He swore to always watch over Optimus Prime and the Autobots, and would be there for them in spirit when their need was greatest. The first such moment came during Optimus Prime's pivotal moment within the black hole, as he appeared alongside the Autobot leader as he reached for the Omega Lock. {{storylink|End}}

[[File:Vector Primevs.Megatron.JPG|upright=1.4|thumb|Battling... IN THE NEXT DIMENSION!]]
Subsequently, the black hole was sealed, but Galvatron was not yet through, and challenged Prime to a final one-on-one duel. During the battle, as Galvatron stood poised to deliver the final blow, Vector Prime's Planet Map flew from the pocket of the watching Bud and moved between the two combatants, blocking Galvatron's blow. Vector Prime spoke to Optimus once more, promising to always be there for him, and bestowing upon him the greatest of gifts—his own sword, [[Rhisling]], with which Optimus Prime defeated and destroyed Galvatron once and for all. {{storylink|Unfinished}} Not long afterwards, as the Autobots departed on a mission across the universe to create a new [[space bridge]], Vector Prime appeared to Optimus once more, smiling at his old friend. {{storylink|Beginning}}

Vector Prime was last seen dueling Galvatron in an existence after death. {{storylink|Beginning}}
{{-}}

====''Cybertron'' toy bios====
Inspired by {{w|The Time Machine (1960 film)|an old movie he once saw on Earth}}, Vector Prime once picked up a hobby whereby he would phase in and out of time to visit a small-town store in the Midwest, looking in the window every day. In 1896, he "befriended" a gentleman in a fine suit who was always standing still in the window. For the next 110 years, Vector Prime visited the store to see the gentleman's different outfits. Eventually, after changing owners, the store closed down, but Vector Prime regarded this temporary diversion fondly.<ref>Galaxy Force Vector Prime's [[Cyber Key Codes|Cyber Key Code]] [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/codes/index.html secret bio content]</ref>

====''Galaxy Force'' manga====
When the [[Unicron Singularity|Grand Black Hole]] began to devour Cybertron, Vector Prime opened a warp and sent [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] to Earth. When the humans Coby, Bud, and Lori failed to repair Landmine, Vector Prime arrived through a warp and thanked the kids for their efforts before repairing Landmine himself. Vector Prime revealed he was unable to save Optimus Prime, but his despair was distracted by the human children bombarding him with questions about Transformers (sound familiar?). Then Megatron showed up and used his hypnotic powers to mesmerize Vector into handing over the Map to the [[Cyber Planet Key|Ancient Power]]. Luckily, Coby was able to yell loud enough to snap Vector out of it. And then Optimus Prime showed up, alive and well, and forced Megatron into retreat. {{storylink|Touchdown! Optimus Prime}}

{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|The Devil's Dogfight! Coby's Courage}} {{storylink|Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime}} {{storylink|Galaxy Force Mission.8}} {{storylink|Galaxy Force Mission.9}}}}

====''Beast Wars Reborn''====
[[File:Bwreborn text.jpg|thumb|"Do you have any idea at all why you and I are currently divided into first and second ranks? It’s because there’s a complete wall between us that you’ll never get past."]]

When his brother [[Logos Prime]] plucked the [[spark]]s of [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] out of their home dimension following [[Great Transformation|their deaths]] and brought them into the "Unicron Trilogy" dimension with the intention of choosing one of them to be his successor and the recipient of his power, Vector Prime was forced to intervene. {{storylink|Master of the Game}} Remembering his sibling as a noble being, Vector was horrified to learn that he planned to pass his power to the evil Megatron, and the two did battle on the astral plane. {{storylink|Planetfall (BWR)|Planetfall}}

====''Kiss Players''====
[[File:KPVectorPrime.jpg|left|thumb|"Scary-Faced Gear Man", she calls him.]]
When the human [[Kiss Players (singing group)|Kiss Players]] became scattered across the dimensions after their vessel [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Brave Maximus]] collided into the "wall of time" while pursuing a mysterious golden hand through the timestream, [[Shaoshao Li]] found herself in another universe, around [[Aurex 105.08 Alpha|the time of the search]] for the Cyber Planet Keys. Finding herself on the deserted Cybertron, she was set upon by a horde of [[Scrapmetal (race)|Scrapmetal]], but was then saved by Safeguard. He explained what had befallen her, then Vector Prime showed up and used his sword to slash a hole in spacetime itself, from which the golden hand—actually that of Primus himself—emerged to pull Shaoshao through. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 50|Kiss Players #50}} {{storylink|Sparkbots Volume 3}}
{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
====As a multiversal singularity====

[[File:Ask Vector Prime Facebook.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Vector Prime: causing wiki headaches since 2015.]]

At some undetermined point in Vector Prime's life, he took the time to answer a series of questions about himself, other Transformers, and the ''Transformers: Cybertron'' toyline in a recurring feature on Hasbro's official ''Transformers'' website, to be reprised in ''[[Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II]]'', ''[[Transformers Animated: The Complete AllSpark Almanac|The Complete AllSpark Almanac]]'', and a [[Fun Publications]]-provided Facebook account, called [[Ask Vector Prime]]. Because of his mastery of time and space, it is impossible to determine when exactly he communicated with our universe, but it may have been during the course of events in the ''Cybertron'' animated series, as he answered questions regarding those events and other characters who he had not met before the series began.

Vector revealed much about himself in these pages, including much new information about his early life. He fondly remembered all his brothers, even knowing how three of them turned into dread monsters, and listened with rapt attention to the [[Liege Maximo]]'s tales of the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]] and [[Primon]], stories he was not even sure were real or just legends. He and his brothers and sisters spent an extended period of time on Earth in ancient Greece, where the [[holomatter]] avatar he used formed the basis for human legends of {{w|Hermes}}, while Rhisling was likewise interpreted as the {{w|Caduceus}}.

[[File:WatchRoboCard.jpg|188px|thumb|right|Available in the finest vending machines across the country.]]

Following the final falling out between the Primes, after the shattering of the Star Saber, Vector helped hide away the five components that [[Nexus Prime]] had split himself into, then went into hiding in the universe [[Aurex 404.11 Kappa]] and locked away all memories of his trauma. Out of necessity, he took a much simpler form, one that turned into a device similar to a wristwatch. There, he became the Autobot leader and wielded the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. He had a bodyguard, [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]], during his Matrix-bearer days, and the two became [[Transformer romance|close]] despite the difference in rank (and his initial reluctance to act on his feelings for a subordinate). After leading the Autobots to victory in the [[second Cybertronian war (Armada)|second Cybertronian war]] against such foes as [[Devron (Armada)|Devron]], [[Megazarak (Armada)|Megazarak]], and the [[Destructon]]s, he was called on by the [[Chronarchitect]] to help fix damage to Time itself! Reluctantly, he passed the Matrix to [[Guardian Major]].

With a group of fellows, the [[Time Warrior (AVP)|Time Warriors]]—Scorpia, medical officer [[Kaltor]], intelligence officer [[Autoceptor]], and quantum scientist [[Deceptor]]—Vector Prime faced foe and threat innumerable, with some timelines only knowing him as "First Autobot" or, when shortened, "Autobot" as a slur, meaning his watch self has often been mistaken for a person ''called'' Autobot. Eventually the Warriors discovered their true enemy, [[Mogahn the Mass]], an indescribable entity that absorbed entire star systems into itself. In the final battle, Vector found his mind entering the [[Realm of the Primes]] and learning his true identity once more; [[Amalgamous Prime|Adaptus]] gifted him the power to create the mighty sword Rhisling, and he smote Mogahn so hard that his remains went back in time and detonated in [[the Big Bang]]. Now once more aware of his true role in the multiverse, Vector Prime had to say a tearful goodbye to Scorpia. He tries not to remember her and does not like talking about it. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/10 and 2015/07/12}}

In another adventure, the GoBot '''Vec-Tor''' was forced to intervene after the always-mischievous [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] recruited [[Renegade#Gong|Gong]] to destabilize two universes, using the [[Omega Lock]]s far beneath [[Gobotron]]. After warping to a [[Primax]] universe, Vector Prime managed to undo the damage before Unicron could devour Cybertron, allowing history to progress along its proper course. {{storylink|Echoes and Fragments}}

Notable other revelations:

*His favorite human authors were [[Peter David]] and [[Alan Dean Foster]], though he seldom had time to read.
*He was a fan of the [[Dinobot (disambiguation)|Dinobot]]s.
*His favorite planet was Cybertron, and his favorite city there was [[Apophenia]].
*He was over nine billion years old, almost as old as the galaxy itself.
*He did not need to shave.
*He used to "boogie down" with [[Disco ball]] when he was younger, but not so much any more. He still enjoyed the symphonies created by the [[Eurythma]] natives. On the other hand, he was not a fan of the [[Knights of Unicron (band)|Knights of Unicron]], since he found their name tasteless.
*He found the [[Viron]] universal cluster to be underrated.
*He was unable to visit the [[Quadwal]] universal cluster.
*He knows which universes have manifested as fiction in Quadwal.
*Despite having traveled far and wide, he could not see why kids loved [[Cinnamon Toast Crunch]].
*He feared the [[Elder God]]s.
*He missed Safeguard, as well as Lori, Bud, and Coby.
*If he had to choose an Earth mode, he would choose a dirigible, though he didn't because he was "not here to blend."
*If he had to choose a beast mode, it would be a large sea mammal.
*He was not a fan of dragons.
*He was definitely not [[Santa Claus]].
*He held several misconceptions about humans, such as how long we could survive decapitation, and whether or not they enjoyed molten boron.
*Though he vehemently dismissed the Decepticon ideology, he did find his species too quick to jump to philosophical extremes, and wished they were more apt to find a middle ground.
*He could view events from elsewhere in the [[Omniverse]], and was impressed by the adventures of [[Ben 10]].
*He cherished his relationship with each of his fellow Thirteen original Primes, though he acknowledged that some of them had gone bad.
*He enjoyed [[Energon Z]] and Stanixian energon wine, but did not care for [[Red Energon]].
*The large glowing hole in his chest was a [[Critias Gate]]way.
*He answered to many names, including [[GoBots|Vec-Tor]], [[Convoy (disambiguation)|Vector Convoy]], Vector Maximus, Vector Maximo, and [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Vector Prima-Vectorum]].
*He was in the process of absorbing the memories and experiences of his [[Vector Prime#Aligned continuity family|Uniend counterpart]], which would eventually alter his physical appearance.
*Since there were constant threats across the multiverse, he had no intentions of retiring anytime soon. If Vector Prime ever got the opportunity to settle down without jeopardizing space or time, however, he would like to become a factory and help build useful things.
*He eventually grew tired of having people ask him about the identities of nameless Transformers, and politely suggested that his audience could ask him more cosmically significant questions.
*In his downtime, he enjoys the art galleries of [[Axiom Nexus]].
*Everyone he ever cares about will grow old and die in what, to him, is just the pulse of a spark. Sometimes, he feels alone even when he's in a crowd.
*He had bravely faced down many threats during his life, but he dreaded the prospect of going up against [[Kinetic Solutions Incorporated|KSI]]'s legal department.
*He found biological functions confusing, and thus he had no wish to become a [[synthoid]].
*His favorite anime was ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]''. (don't think about this one too hard)
*His favorite character from [[Babylon 5]] was the ambassador {{w|Kosh Naranek|Kosh}}.
*In some universes, Vector is female. She would purchase ''[[Venus (magazine)|Venus]]'' as a guilty pleasure more often than when she is male. She sounds like [[Star Trek|Kate Mulgrew]].
*Though he doesn't have a birthday, per se, he suggests that a celebration could be held on [[September 19]], the day he first arrived on Earth (and, not coincidentally, the day [[Fallen (episode)|the first episode]] of Cybertron aired in the U.S.)
*He doesn't like talking about the various conflicts and tribulations that his species regularly undergo. He'd rather discuss music, art, and the beautiful things that he's seen across the multiverse; he rarely has the opportunity to talk about the nature of his work to someone on an equal level.
*His favourite human movie was ''[[Back to the Future]]'', due to the performance of lead actor {{w|Eric Stoltz}}.
*Among his favorite human television shows are ''[[Doctor Who]]'', ''[[Mystery Science Theater 3000]]'', ''[[Sliders]]'', and ''[[Quantum Leap]]''.
*He revealed himself as a [[Point One Percenter]] (after the Shroud).

The answers Vector Prime gave on Facebook were delivered at a time when he was living in [[Axiom Nexus]], and was employed to write an advice column position with [[Axiom Nexus News]] in [[Nexus 208.0 Epsilon]]. {{storylink|Axiom Nexus News Editor|Axiom Nexus News Editor, 2015/05/13}} He was viewed by the TransTech public as a respected if a bit eccentric elder 'bot, but ANN journalist [[Rook (TransTech)|Rook]] (correctly) suspected that Vector Prime was merely putting on an act. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/06/05}}

At one point during his tenure at ANN, he was kidnapped and tortured by [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]]. While Vector Prime was indisposed, Sideways took over his inventory of unanswered questions, and offered decidedly unhelpful answers. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Ask Sideways|Ask Sideways, 2015/06/27}} He was able to escape the clutches of Sideways when a [[David Willis|particularly infuriating question]] caused the head of the Herald of Unicron to suddenly explode. However, [[Rook (Armada)|Rook]] was part of the [[Axiom Nexus Security Administration|OZSA]] team sent to rescue Vector Prime, and the Mini-Con initiated a [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] sequence with Sideways, allowing the Herald of Unicron to escape capture via a [[Dimensional Interfacer]]. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/07/08}}

After a few decades of recovery in other universes, Vector Prime resumed his advice columnist position in Axiom Nexus but, after [[Nexus Prime]] summoned him {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/09/30}}, the column fell into the hands of [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|a Grimlock]]. After being falsely told that Vector Prime lied about Dinobots and said they looked like jerks, Grimlock snarled "him look like jerks!" and, in a burst of wit, said Vector was ''old''. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Grim Grams|Grim Grams, 2015/10/03}} When [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] took over the column, he was dismayed to note that he was filling in for a "filthy Guardian do-gooding dunce" and refused to answer any questions about Vec-Tor. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Renegade Rhetoric|Renegade Rhetoric (1), 2015/10/18}}

====As a TransTech====
{{voiceactor|[[Richard Newman]] ("Special Guest")}}

Vector Prime returned to Axiom Nexus soon after "the [[Shroud]]" had cut it off from every other universe. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|ANN live coverage, 2015/10/29}} Little did anyone in the city know, this "Shroud" was the product of Nexus Prime's unification of the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] and [[Terminus Blade]], and the Vector who returned was not truly the same being as the one who had left: per the results of Nexus Prime's actions, the Vector who resumed his duties as host of the column was no longer a multiversal singularity, but a single incarnation of the many that now existed throughout the multiverse. This was a TransTech Vector Prime, native to Axiom Nexus, a "mere" 25 million years old, with a unique history of his own as a professor at the [[Academy of Science and Technology]] who had been the teacher of [[Rhinox (TransTech)|the local Rhinox]], and who had come up with the theoretical foundation of the [[universal stream]] classification system. Accordingly, he was left with only unclear memories of exactly had happened, much like a dream, and was no longer aware of his original nature: he believed his exploits as one of the Thirteen had happened to the (possibly newly created) other Vector Primes.

[[Image:AVP Vector and Scorpia do Nebulos.jpg|thumb|300px|right|That's Vector's holomatter disguise in the centre, but we get the feeling he'll change it a few times.]]

Briefly leaving his column in the hands of [[Spacewarp]] while he responded to a summons from the city's Ministry of Higher Dimensional Sciences, Vector Prime's experience with multiversal travel led to him taking part in an Axiom Nexus scheme to try to establish contact with one of the nine fundamental realities: specifically, [[Primax 984.0 Gamma]], requiring him to be stationed on [[Nebulos]] as a factory manufacturing [[hoverboard]]s, binary bonded to a local codenamed [[Safeguard (TransTech)|Safeguard]] and with a bodyguard known as [[Scorpia (TransTech)|Scorpia]]. He hoped he'd got on well with them!

In the interim, he endeavoured to answer questions and among his answers:

*He has 'dreams' of the exploits of other Vector Primes and believes this is down to an unusual physiology of his. While he has a vague sense of having been greater once, these memories "are but oneiric wisps, gossamer threads that vanish when I touch them."

*He's ''dramatically'' less interested in questions about who came from what universal stream. Stop wasting his time, nerds!

*He has visited a few other realities as a scholar. It was Rhinox that challenged him into getting out into the field.

*The students he remembers the most fondly after Rhinox are [[Perceptor (TransTech)|Perceptor]], [[Apelinq (TransTech)|Apelinq]], [[Proxima (TransTech)|Proxima]], and [[Brainstorm (TransTech)|Brainstorm]], who all did great things in their respective fields. [[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]], on the other hand, often challenged him to excel but they did not go on, each believing the other had deep problems. [[Deluge (TransTech)|Deluge]] and [[Herr Fiend]] were frustrating as neither seemed likely to do nice things with their skills.

Not long into his voyage on [[Galaxy Shuttle]], he started to develop tentative feelings for Scorpia. Unfortunately, his trip was interrupted by an abduction. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/11/19}} [[Spacewarp]] came to his aid on behalf of the wounded Galaxy Shuttle. {{storylink|Transformers: Spacewarp's Log|Spacewarp's Log (2), 2015/11/21 and 2015/11/22}} During the long, meandering journey, he fell in love with Scorpia and they became [[Conjunx Endura]]. He eventually arrived safely at Nebulos. He looked forward to exploring its wonders with his new guide and binary bonded Target/Powermaster, Safeguard. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2016/02/14 and 2016/02/15}}

===''Animated'' cartoon continuity===
When the battle between [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] and [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] caused the [[AllSpark]] to discharge an energy flare, this massive surge of cosmic power caught Vector Prime's attention. Peering through the dimensions, he observed the growing conflict between these Autobots and Decepticons and recorded his thoughts in a journal. {{storylink|Dispatches}} {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac|The AllSpark Almanac}} When he manifests in this dimension, Vector is known by the grandiose name of "Vector Prima-Vectorum".<ref>Originally an idea of [[Derrick J. Wyatt]]'s that never made it into any official media; later referenced in [[Ask Vector Prime]] (2015/06/24)</ref>

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
After the Fallen was caught trying to harvest a [[Sun|star]] from a system with life, he turned on the other Primes and made war on them. In order to prevent the Fallen from harvesting the star, the remaining Primes (including Vector Prime) hid the [[Matrix of Leadership|key to the harvester]] inside a tomb made of their own bodies and sealed it with their own life essence. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{storylink|Ask Vector Prime}}

[[File:ROTF-sixprimes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I was the handsome one.]]

{{note|Vector Prime was among the [[Dynasty of Primes]], though it was unclear which exact Prime he was. However, since he simply claims that he was the "handsome one", this may have all been a joke. If not, Vector Prime's involvement in the preceding events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the novel "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]."}}

===Generation 1 continuity family===
====''Alternity''====
Vector Prime was contacted by his fellow defenders of space and time, the hyper-evolved Autobots known as the [[Alternity (species)|Alternity]], when they were facing their final hours. At the Alternity's behest, Vector Prime communicated with a race of two-dimensional beings called [[Planicron]]s who were under threat from [[Megatron (G1)#Alternity|Megatron]], and discovered that they were attempting to evolve beyond their two-dimensional existence. To do so, they had to pass through a doorway that took the form of a diagram somewhere on the Earth of [[universal stream]] [[Story of Binaltech|Primax 903.0 Beta]]. A team consisting of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], [[Arcee (Energon)|Elita Seven]], and [[Nemesis Prime (Universe)|Nemesis Prime]] successfully located the diagram, and Vector Prime proceeded to lead the Planicrons through it, successfully evolving them into higher-dimensional lifeforms that took the Alternity's place as defenders of reality. {{storylink|Alternation}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
[[File:OriginMyths-VectorPrime.jpg|thumb|left|100px]]
:*''First Appearance:'' [[Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|''Transformers vol. 2'' #47]] (mentioned); [[Heavy|''Transformers: Till All Are One'' #9]] (obscured image); [[Origin Myths|''Optimus Prime'' #10]] (full appearance)

Vector Prime was one of the Thirteen Primes, who led the [[Thirteen Tribes]] of Cybertron that formed after the [[Knights of Cybertron]] left the planet. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}}

He joined his tribe with those of [[Solus Prime]], [[Alchemist Prime]], [[Nexus Prime]], and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the quintet commissioning the construction of [[Crystal City]], on the site where [[Primus]] had supposedly delivered his [[Prime Pastoral]], as a way of honoring their creator. After [[Septimus Prime]] perished, Vector ran to his fellow Primes to inform them of the development that the [[The Fallen|killer]] had conquered Septimus's lands and was on the warpath. There was a mixed reception to this news. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

In the era that followed, Vector would come to command the loyalty of the [[Titan (group)|Titan]] [[Tempo]]. {{storylink|Ceremony}}

The death of [[Nexus Prime]] at the hands of [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] prompted all the remaining Primes, except [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], to flee Cybertron. Eons later, [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] would send one of his [[Regenesis]] ores, [[Ore-1]], to [[LV-117]], a planet associated with Vector. {{storylink|The Crucible}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Ceremony}}

In the modern day, Vector Prime's name was remembered in the [[Way of Flame]], the religion of [[Solus Prime]]'s colony [[Caminus (planet)|Caminus]]. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}}

====''Beast Wars: Uprising''====
In the 34th century CE, '''Vector Convoy''' was one of the [[Convoy Council]]. He usually abstained from voting the same as his peers. When the stolen ship ''[[Terrastar (BWU)|Terrastar]]'' left the Milky Way Galaxy, in violation of the Council's decree, Vector took part in the vote to send [[Astral Knight (BWU)|Astral Knight]] and his crew after them. Surprisingly, he agreed, though Astral noted it was with "infinite sadness". {{storylink|The Inexorable March}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material====
Vector Prime's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Vector Prime's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|#Generations|''Power of the Primes'' Metalhawk / Vector Prime online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Vector Prime's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
Vector Prime was one of the Thirteen. {{storylink|Lord of Misrule: Sea of Rust I|Sea of Rust I}}

===Aligned continuity family===
====''The Covenant of Primus''====
[[File:VectorPrime-CovenantOfPrimus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|"The only mystery worth solving here is how this thing passed its MOT."]]
Stern, serious, Vector Prime considered himself a force of order and balance in the universe, a mere extension of his creator [[Primus]]. His powers over time and space allowed him to create and prevent temporal paradoxes to suit his needs, and even distort reality as he saw fit. His personal artifact of power was the [[Blades of Time]], which he could use to travel through other dimensions. He also had [[Badge of Vector Prime|a badge]], seemingly for decoration.

The second of the Thirteen Primes to be created, Vector was a warrior Prime, joining Prima, Onyx, Amalgamous and Megatronus in the groupings among the Thirteen. After [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus]] had caused [[Unicron/Aligned|Unicron]] to fall into stasis, Vector Prime created a time loop around the inert form of the Chaos Bringer ensuring he would never awaken. Like the others however, Vector Prime was tainted by a touch of Unicron's darkness, which would mark the downfall of the Thirteen.

In the aftermath, Vector joined with Prima and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] to create rules and order for a new community and the upcoming birth of the Cybertronian species, though their rules were found restrictive by the other Primes. Along with Trion and Prima, Vector was greatly confused by the romance between Solus and Megatronus. Despite this however, Vector commissioned a new mandala from Solus.

The end of the Thirteen came after [[Prima]] discovered that Megatronus, [[Quintus Prime]], and [[Liege Maximo]] had worked on a secret "farm" of robotic creatures, which Alchemist found troubling. Suspecting a sinister motive, Prima forced the rest of the Thirteen into a vote on the matter, and Vector voted against letting the project continue. Furious with the results of the debate, Megatronus inadvertently killed Solus in a dispute that [[Liege Maximo]] had orchestrated. Drawn by the commotion, the rest of the Thirteen arrived in time to see Solus's body return to the [[Core]], its passage creating the [[Well of All Sparks]].

Even after Megatronus offered his side of the story, accusations began to fly. The investigation degenerated into a free-for-all brawl between the remaining twelve siblings, which ended with Maximo getting killed by the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]] through uncertain means.

The survivors buried Liege Maximo's remains in a chasm and held a memorial to Solus Prime in deep space. Hoping to put their ugly past behind them, the Primes then turned their attention to Cybertron and their plans for the future. They decided to use [[Onyx Prime]]'s [[Triptych Mask]] to create a new race of robotic beings, as Primus had created them, with Onyx, Micronus, and Optimus travelling into the Well resulting in the creation of a new wave of Cybertronian creatures which the surviving Primes oversaw. Vector Prime's faith in his siblings however had long since been shattered and he quietly retreated to [[Realm of the Primes|another dimension]] when no one was looking.

One way or another his badge wound up in [[Vector Sigma]]'s possession. Millenia later, Alpha Trion would gift it to Sentinel Prime. Millenia after that, Optimus reassembled the Blades of Time.
{{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}
{{-}}

====Aligned novels====
In the past, the once idealistic Vector Prime held the Thirteen together with his idealism, but despaired as his fellow Primes fell to fighting and backstabbing. He could understand a moment of anger that caused [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] to lash out and kill [[Solus Prime]], but when he discovered [[Liege Maximo]] actively scheming against his brothers, he could tolerate no more, and created a miniature pocket dimension for himself. This could only be accessed through the [[Blades of Time]], which were scattered across the [[Cybertronian colonies]] and guarded by [[Nexus Prime]]'s fractured selves. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

When he defeated [[Sentinel Zeta Prime|Sentinel Prime]] in combat, [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] noticed he wore the sigil of the noble myth of Vector Prime. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

After discovering and assembling the Blades of Time, Optimus stepped through into Vector Prime's pocket dimension. Vector Prime had been expecting him, and called Optimus "Prime". He agreed to aid the [[Autobot]]s, and seemed surprised that Alpha Trion was still alive. He wondered how many of the Thirteen were still around. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[File:OneShallRise1-VectorPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1]]

According to legend, at the beginning of time, [[Unicron]] and [[Primus]] battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Till, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}}

At some point, statues of Vector Prime and his brothers were made. They were placed in the chamber of the High Council. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

====Ask Vector Prime====
The [[Uniend]] incarnation of Vector Prime was initially not part of the "multiversal singularity" Vector, as the Uniend Cluster was separated from the rest of the multiverse by a quantum membrane. When this membrane was punctured by the [[Dark Spark]], Uniend Vector began to be absorbed into the wavestructure of the living quantum event that was the singularity incarnation. As this process carried itself out, the singularity Vector began to experience and absorb the memories of the Uniend Vector, recalling how he had convinced [[Ironfletch]] to join the Autobot cause, and briefly worked alongside [[Rampart Punch]] and [[Avatar Brave]]. In particular, he expressed a fondness for his Uniend equivalent's [[Facial hair|beard]], and wondered if he would adopt it into his own facial structure. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime}}

====2015 ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Troy Baker]] (English), [[Yasuhiro Kikuchi]] (Japanese)|[[Xavier Percy]] (French), [[Glauco Marques]] (Brazilian Portuguese)}}
[[File:BattlegroundsPt1 vector prime.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.5|He knows about Setsuna Meiou being demoted to a dwarf planet.]]
When the evil of [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] threatened to return, endangering both Earth and Cybertron, [[Micronus Prime]] brought [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] before Vector and the other four Primes who dwelled within the [[Realm of the Primes]]. Speaking for the group, Vector announced that they could sense Optimus had not yet completed the necessary preparations that would allow him to safely receive a portion of power from each of the assembled Primes so that he could effectively combat Megatronus, but an impassioned speech from Optimus convinced them to go through with the power transfer. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}}

{{-}}

===''Kre-O'' online comic===
[[File:KreO vectorprime.jpg|right|thumb|upright=.75]]
In [[Fornax 813.0 Gamma|a universe]] built out of blocks, Vector Prime witnessed a Decepticon attack on [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]. {{storylink|Two Giant Bases! Everybody Getting Along, Come On, Fight!}}
{{-}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Vector Prime was one of the [[Thirteen]]. {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} {{storylink|Silent Strike}} {{storylink|The Other One}}

===''One'' film===
[[File:One-Vector-Prime.jpg|thumb|Hey 2000s kids! It's me! I'm back.....just to be killed off in a brief flashback for shock value...]]
Vector Prime and the other twelve Primes were created by [[Primus]] at the dawn of Cybertron, and they ruled Cybertron benevolently through its Golden Age. When a war with the Quintessons meant their world was in danger, throwing the planet into a protracted, violent conflict, the Primes' secretary, [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]], herded the [[Thirteen|thirteen]] into a Quintesson ambush within a remote cave. Vector would be killed during the battle, with his brothers' and sisters' bodies resting in a hidden cave for fifty cycles before being rediscovered by miners [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]], [[Megatron (One)|D-16]], [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita]], and [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]].

A vision of Vector Prime and the other Primes later appeared as Alpha Trion declared a damaged Orion Pax to be the next wielder of the Matrix of Leadership, Optimus Prime.{{storylink|Transformers One (film)|Transformers One}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===Transformers Power Up: The Game===
{{Note|Vector Prime is one of four Transformers that can be built over the course of the game.}}
{{storylink|Transformers Power Up: The Game}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Vector Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
Vector Prime was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Power of the Primes}}

When [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] and [[C.L. (G1)|C.L.]] were surrounded by Decepticons, Vector Prime temporarily stopped time and stepped in to have a talk with the two Autobots. Introducing himself, Vector explained the slow-time bubble was necessary for him to enter regular spacetime to act against [[Nova Prime]], who wanted to destroy all timelines in the multiverse to reset the slate. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Vector gave a hint: "Unite or perish." before departing. {{storylink|History Repeating}}

Vector Prime also appeared to the time-lost Optimus Prime in [[1984]], explaining that Optimus was needed to stop Nova Prime. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Vector Prime arrival}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generation 2''===
[[File:G2AutobotGenerations.jpg|100px|thumb|Sadly not featured in a hilarious rap-filled commercial.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a2|'''Autobot''' (Watch, 1993)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Watchband
{{toydesigner|[[Takashi Matsuda]] (TakaraTomy)}}
{{note|This toy was [[Repurposing|repurposed]] into an older form of Vector Prime via an entry of [[Ask Vector Prime]].}}

: [[Autobot (G2)|Autobot]] originated in the [[1983]] ''[[Microman]]'' ''[[Micro Change]]'' line as MC-06 Watch Robo, where he was available in four different colors. In [[1993]], he was released directly by [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] in North America as part of ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'', alongside [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]] and the wristwatches of [[Superion (G1)|Superion]], [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]].

: He transforms from a boxy silver chrome robot to a boxy functional digital watch that attaches to a plastic wristband.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1993/Autobot/Autobot/autobot.htm More information on Autobot at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Cybertron''===
[[File:Cybertrontoy hasbro and takara vector primes.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|The [[Last Autobot]]'s beiger cousin. (Hasbro Vector Prime at left, Takara release on the right, and their respective Cyber Keys from top to bottom at center.)]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Voyager, 2004/2005)}}</ul>
:*''Takara ID number'': '''GC-03'''
:*''Takara release date'': [[December 28]], 2004
:*''Accessories'': [[Rhisling|Sword]], missile, [[Zeonomicon|Cyber Key]]
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''v38g'''
{{toydesigner|[[Aaron Archer]] and [[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Hirofumi Ichikawa]] (detailing)}}

: Part of the first wave of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]/[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)#Takara Galaxy Force toyline|Galaxy Force]]'' toys, Vector Prime transforms into a large Cybertronic space cruiser with "solar panel" wings and a ''ton'' of clockwork/filigree detailing. His nosecone has a spring-loaded missile launcher at the tip, and an indented area over his cockpit for his pack-in Mini-Con partner [[Safeguard (Cybertron)#Toys|Safeguard]] to attach in jet/cannon mode. The nosecone ''also'' holds his [[Rhisling|sword]], the guard sticking out of the side to form a small stabilizer fin (with an immobile matching fin on the other side). In robot mode, raising his right arm triggers electronic laser sounds; inserting his unique [[Cyber Key]] into his <s>fly</s> abdomen in either mode activates a vague electronic charging sound, and replaces his arm-activated laser sounds with those of a clashing sword.

: First made available in Japan by [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] several months ahead of [[Hasbro]]'s release, ''Galaxy Force'' Vector Prime has some significant differences between these two separate releases. Where Hasbro's release features a high-contrast color scheme of stark white and rich chocolate-brown plastics, Takara's uses a softer metallic-tinged grey and burgundy. [[For safety reasons]], Hasbro uses a softer, bendable translucent plastic for Vector Prime's wings and sword, where Takara was able to cast these parts in firmer materials. Finally, there are numerous [[paint operation]] differences between the two: Takara's version features a burgundy trim that runs all around the figure's wings, extra red circles on his shoulders, silver paint on the thigh vents, and several additional gold details on his forearm guards, helmet crest, and the sides of his legs, while Hasbro's does away with these and adds instead a larger gold application around his midriff and Cyber Key slot, and an Autobot [[insignia]] on his vehicle-mode cockpit. Hasbro's Cyber Key is entirely unpainted translucent blue with a [[Cyber Key Codes|Cyber Key Code]] printed on the back, Takara's features a generous metallic silver paint coating and no code.

: Unhelpfully, [[:File:VectorPrime toy.jpg|stock photos of Vector Prime]] depicted a conglomerated version of the figure with Hasbro's white plastic, Takara's burgundy, and all the different paint applications from both versions.

: The Korean [[Mocom Toy]] version of Takara Vector Prime replaces the silver paint of his Cyber Planet Key with a light gray.

: This mold was also used to create [[BotCon 2007]] [[Alpha Trion (SG)#Toys|Alpha Trion]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/VectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on Vector Prime at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|VsStarscream}}
[[File:Cybertrontoy vprime vs sscream.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Starscream vs. Vector Prime''' (Multi-pack, 2005)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': [[Rhisling|Sword]], missile, [[Zeonomicon|Cyber Key]]
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''v38g'''

: The Vector Prime in this [[Toys"R"Us]] [[exclusive]] set is identical to the regular-retail version. He comes with a unique version of [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#VsVector|Starscream]], a Voyager-class mold that was otherwise not available at normal US retail, and in an entirely new deco to boot.

{{-}}{{anchor|LOC}}
[[File:Cyb-toy VectorPrime LOC.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|And I'm his poorer cousin who can't afford paint.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Legends of Cybertron, 2006)}}</ul>

: As part of the ''[[Legends Class (2005)|Legends of Cybertron]]'' line, Vector Prime is a miniature, heavily-simplified version of the Voyager-class toy, yet retaining much of the sculpted detailing. He was part of the third wave of product, the first wave to be sold outside of "[[market six]]" stores and in "big box" chains like Toys 'R' Us and Kmart.

: Some stock photos of this figure, including the ones on the back of its packaging,<ref name="locvprime">[http://www.shmax.com/product_details/271/vector_prime Legends of Cybertron Vector Prime's packaging] at Shmax.com</ref> depict Vector Prime with functional elbows. Evidently, a [[design change]] was implemented at some point; on the final release, the arms are cast as one piece, with ''fake elbow joints'' as moulded detail. OK then.

: This mold was [[redeco]]ed into ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|Universe]]'' [[Scattershot (G1)#Universe (2008)|Scattershot]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/LOCVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Legends of Cybertron'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|CGFVectorPrime}}
[[File:Cyb GFVectorPrime toy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Safeguard pimps his ride. Fo sho.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Galaxy Force Vector Prime''' (Voyager, 2006)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Sword, missile, Cyber Key
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''vz74'''
{{toydesigner|[[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro)}}

: Not to be confused with the ''Galaxy Force'' release of Vector Prime, Hasbro's "Galaxy Force Vector Prime" is a matte gold & clear-orange [[redeco]] of Vector Prime released in the eighth and final wave of ''Cybertron'' Voyagers, the only new toy in that assortment. The packaging photography shows the [[prototype]] as considerably more blinged out than the rather yellowish matte gold plastic actually used for the production run. He retains all of his normal gimmickry from the original release.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/GFVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on Galaxy Force Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Universe2008 VectorPrime.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Last Autobot [[homage]]: Denied!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime with Mini-Con Safeguard!''' (Voyager, 2009)}}</ul>
:*''Series'': Cybertron Series
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, missile, Cyber Key
{{toydesigner|[[Andrew Scribner]] (deco artist)}}

: Vector Prime was re-released in the fourth wave of the [[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|2008 ''Universe'' series]] Voyagers, redecoed in black, brown, and blue. Notably, this is the first Hasbro iteration of the figure to have painted wings like the Takara Galaxy Force version, as well as being the only version with a painted sword blade. Like [[BotCon]] exclusive [[Alpha Trion (SG)#Toys|Alpha Trion]], sadly, he has been gutted of his electronic features, rendering the Cyber Key pointless; though the battery compartment can be opened.

:This toy was shipped in extremely low quantities, and as a result was a very rare sight at U.S. retail stores.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Autobot/TFUVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Universe'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Vector-Prime-Prime-Master.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Prime Master, [[2017]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''PP-03'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[May 25]], [[2018]]
:*''Accessories'': [[Metalhawk (G1)#Power of the Primes|Metalhawk]] decoy armor, cannon
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Vector Prime is a [[Prime Master]] with [[Metalhawk (G1)#Toys|Metalhawk]] "decoy armor", visually based on the original [[Pretender]]'s inner robot and shell.

: This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The decoy armor has a weapon piece that can fold out to create a weapon mode, or detach and be held in the armor's 3 mm-compatible hand. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside the decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug into any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the [[Scepter of Sparks]]. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

: Unlike every other Titan Master/Prime Master, Vector Prime and his fellow first-wave Prime Masters feature backpacks/symbols secured by pins instead of screws.

: Though designated for a first-quarter 2018 release, Vector Prime/Metalhawk's wave reached U.S. store shelves in November 2017.

:Vector Prime/Metalhawk was retooled with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil and decoy armor front as [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Power of the Primes|Alpha Trion]]/[[Landmine (G1)#Power of the Primes|Landmine]], and again replacing the entire gray sprue with new parts for [[Quintus Prime#Power of the Primes|Quintus Prime]]/[[Bludgeon (G1)#Power of the Primes|Bludgeon]]. Vector Prime alone was given a different replacement sprue for the [[Thirteenth Prime#Power of the Primes|Thirteenth Prime]].
{{-}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:TF-Legacy-United-Voyager-Vector-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Retooled with direction ''and'' magnitude.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Cybertron Universe Vector Prime''' (Voyager, [[2024]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy Release Date:'' [[December 28]], [[2024]]
:*''TakaraTomy ID Number:'' '''TL-80'''
:*''Accessories'': "[[Rhisling#Legacy|Rhisling]]" sword, [[Zeonomicon#Legacy|Cyber Key]]
{{toydesigner|[[Mark Maher]] (Hasbro), [[Yūya Ōnishi]] (TakaraTomy)}}<ref>[[April 25]], [[2024]]'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s06YE02e844 Hasbro Pulse Transformers Fanstream | April 2024] on YouTube, with [[Ben MacCrae]], [[Mark Maher]] and [[Evan Brooks]].</ref>

: Part of the third wave of ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy United]]'' Voyagers, Vector Prime is a partial [[retool]]ing of [[Jhiaxus (G2)#Legacy|G2 Universe Jhiaxus]], retaining the legs, arms and part of the chest. While teased at Hasbro's [[WonderCon 2024 fan media event|WonderCon]] panel with his ''[[Binder of Revelation]]'' appearance, the toy itself is based on his ''Cybertron'' design. He transforms into a chunkier take on his original spaceship alt-mode.

:As it reuses Jhaixus' legs, the hinges that connects his small wings remain empty in this release.

: He comes with his [[Rhisling#Legacy|Rhisling sword]] and his personal [[Zeonomicon#Legacy|clockwork-style Cyber Key]]. Like most ''Cybertron''-derived ''Legacy'' figures with Keys, it is only there as a callback to its functionality on the original toy, not activating any gimmicks. The key is inserted in a different location than before, as it doesn't plug into his waist like his original toy, instead attaching to his chest or backpack (presumably to not block his new waist articulation). His wing panels can also be taken off their pegs fairly easily if one wants to make use of the [[Powerlinx]] posts on them to equip him with shields.

: Like with most characters partnered with Mini-Cons, [[Safeguard (Cybertron)#Toys|Safeguard]] is omitted from this release, though Vector Prime’s jet mode has a port for the original to plug into and rest.

: Vector Prime was revealed on the [[April 25]] fanstream, with pre-orders going up later that same day.

::*''[https://www.instagram.com/p/C6TodbUuVLy/ Designer commentary on ''Legacy'' Vector Prime from Mark Maher on Instagram'']''
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===''Attacktix''===
[[File:Attacktix VectorPrime.jpg||thumb|upright=1.1|Go ahead. Ask me again about how well I blend.]]
*'''Vector Prime''' (Booster, 2006)
{{attacktix
|ID=TF11
|faction=Autobot
|class=Leader
|special=Vengeance—2525 (77%) success ratio
|cost=40
|speed=4
|attacktype=Shooter (Energy Blast)
}}
:Part of the first assortment of ''[[Attacktix]]'' Transformers-series Booster packs, Vector Prime is one of the less stable shooters of his size. He has three points of articulation (shoulders and waist) which you can use to put him in a more stable stance than his default, though it doesn't look very comfortable.

:Vector Prime appears to have been created as the counterpart to the powerful Decepticon [[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]] figure. His Special Power is the antithesis of Scorponok's, allowing you to instantly remove up to two of your opponent's in-play [[Insecticon (Energon)|Insecticons]]. Who knew Vector Prime hated Terrorcons so much?

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/AttacktixVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Attacktix'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===Jollibee===
{{anchor|Jollibee}}
[[File:JollibeeCybVector.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|The Guardian of Shakes and Fries]]
*'''Vector Prime''' (Jollibee Kids Meal, 2007)
**''Accessories'': Cup topper stand

:Released under the "Robot Blasters" promotion from [[Jollibee]], Vector Prime is a simplified rendition of the [[Vector Prime#LOC|Legends of Cybertron]] figure, missing several joints and shaving off a few transformation steps in the process. Like all four pieces in this set, Vector includes a stand with his name and faction symbol sculpted on one side and the ''Cybertron'' logo on the other. This stand can also be used to cover up a regular-sized cup from a fast food joint.

{{--}}

==Notes==
===General===
[[File:VectorPrimeGoldCG.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Vector Prime goes Super Saiyan.]]
* Like other members of the Thirteen, Vector Prime was once established as a [[multiversal singularity]], existing as one being across all of time and space, but that is [[Shroud|no longer the case]].
* The original concept for Vector Prime was for him to be a character who could cut through spacetime to summon different characters from across the multiverse.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Multiverse travel was really what he was created for, he was initially created as a character that could cut through the Multiverse with his sword and potentially bring characters from different versions of the franchise together. Now that changed a little bit in the execution of ''Cybertron'' and how that finished up, but initially he would have been a character that would have helped the Autobots, or guided somehow them getting to the different places, and meeting up with different versions of different characters that maybe they would have brought forward.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQLQ4VzuCGA&t=281s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=Toy Armada Friday night LIVE: Creating characters and lore|year=2023|month=05|day=26}}</ref> In keeping with the idea of him being a much older Transformer than had ever been seen before, his design drew heavily from Egyptian imagery and {{w|Swiss made}} watches.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=One of my favorite character designs. He was created for Cybertron animation and incorporated into the TF aligned continuity project. Heavily based on Egyptian influences as well as swiss watches, we wanted his age to show in his design that he came from an much older time than #Optimus and the gang. I altered his head colors to create a more uniform look.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CEuFhNtA5bn/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2020|month=09|day=04}}</ref> He was originally going to have two swords (as seen in the image to the right), representing the hands of a {{w|clock face}}.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So his initial concept was that he was somehow going to be the controller of [...] time and space. That is why he was designed with clocklike gears and mechanism, 'cause he's a time machine, and the two swords that he was supposed to have represent like, a clock arm—the two clock arms—and that he would cut through, you know, the reality of time and space around him, to enter into other Transformer realities. So that was the original, like, ''need'' for the character. As we thought about that, that seemed pretty epic, that seemed like a skill set that no other Transformer seems to have—so are we going too far, right? You gotta be fair. And that's when it was like, "well what if this guy is even bigger than Autobot/Decepticon? What if he's one of the Thirteen? Then we can get away with a god power.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=938s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref>
** During pre-production of the ''Cybertron'' franchise, [[Don Figueroa]] iterated on early concept art for Vector Prime. [http://www.unicron.us/tf2007/figueroa/DonceptVector-b.jpg Figueroa's design] depicted the character as much older and with a noticeable hunch, and ultimately went unused in favor of his final design.
** The vaguely pharaonic head of one of the earliest known sketches of Vector Prime had a resemblance to {{w|Giant Robo (OVA)|Giant Robo}}, but [[Aaron Archer]] had no idea what Giant Robo was when questioned about it—although, to be fair, the sketch was not one Archer had done himself.<ref>http://tfu.info/issue12/aaronsdesk.htm Stuff From Aaron's Desk, Day 22</ref>
** His final head design was largely based on the [[Autobot]] insignia.<ref>[[Hasbro]] panel at [[BotCon 2006]]</ref> During development, a few possibilities were explored to give him a much more slavish version of the insignia for a face, such as a flip-down<ref>[http://www.flickr.com/photos/naladahc/256973979/in/set-72157594305640507/ BotCon - Friday - Vector Prime's original head]</ref> or opening<ref>{{citesocial|quote=His head has a bit of an Egyptian vibe to it. It was the Autobot logo at one point, and that was just a little too on-the-nose for Hasbro, you know, we didn't want to define that [...] logo on a character forever. [...] And then the face was going to open up, like it was a shield kind of thing.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1081s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> battle mask.
* Vector Prime's spaceship mode was based directly on the [[Sith Infiltrator]],<ref>{{citesocial|quote=The Sith Infiltrator was obviously part of the visual of the alt-mode.
|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1138s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> and needed to undergo revisions by [[Eric Siebenaler]] to reduce the resemblance for the final product.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I know I did an image board with Swiss watches and this that and the other, Chris took that to a level, Don was working on the heads a little bit more, Eric was working on the spaceship after we got the first version back—we needed some refinement to get it away from the Sith Infiltrator vibe, and so that's when Eric did some overlays on the vehicle—so this is toy design, and this is classic character design when you have a big corporation: a lot of people are going to touch them.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1953s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> Aaron Archer feels that Vector Prime's vehicle mode was a little undercooked, in comparison to the robot mode.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wish we worked on the vehicle mode as much as we did the bot....|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CEuFhNtA5bn/c/17860106990087566/r/17913964018469268/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2020|month=09|day=04}}</ref>
* The "Galaxy Force Vector Prime" color scheme appears to have been inspired by a [[GONZO]] CGI color mock-up done before Vector Prime's final coloration was decided. A Hasbro design chart showing this and other concepts was first seen at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2005, and was present at [[BotCon 2005]] later that same year. The image also made an appearance during a slideshow at one of Hasbro's [[BotCon 2006]] presentations, and in Galaxy Force Vector Prime's unlockable online Cyber Key content.
** Aaron Archer's personal [[Authorial intent|headcanon]] regarding Vector Prime's color scheme was that he originally had a [[Vacuum metallizing|shiny]] gold finish—as seen in this concept art and in ''[[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus]]''—but that the chrome flaked away over the years.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=In my headcanon, he was shimmery shiny gold at some point—like you see in the ''Covenant'' book, he is gold in that book—and his VM has worn off over the millenniums, you know? tAnd that's why he's white and brown now, because the the chrome has flaked off of him! [*Laughs*]|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=2301s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref>
* "Vector Prime" was the originally proposed name for [[Sentinel Maximus]], going so far as to be printed on Sentinel Maximus's shipping cases.
* The released version of the Vector Prime ''Attacktix'' figure featured the Takara coloration of the ''Cybertron'' toy, gray with a metallic burgundy. [[:File:WhiteVectorPrimeAttacktix.jpg|A more Hasbro-release-like white-and-brown redeco]] was seen through various avenues, such as Toy Fair 2006 and Hasbro publicity photos, but ultimately never came out at retail.
* Vector Prime is [[Aaron Archer]]'s favorite character he's created.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=mine too|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bubcs5Kn9dr/c/17978356441205690/r/17907536086292250/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2019|month=05|day=03}}</ref>

===''Generation 2'' "Autobot" watch toy===
[[File:RobotTimeMachineSixModes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|Robot Time Machine in watch, "battle station", "galactic shuttle", "cosmic tank", "solar creature", and robot forms. No, this time we're not joking.]]
* After being released in ''Micro Change'', Autobot was sold by Takara in a line called ''Watch Q'' in 1984. The watches who would become [[Kaltor]] and [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]] were also sold in ''Watch Q'', as were a bunch of other transforming watches who were never sold as Transformers. Autobot was also sold as part of Takara's North American ''[[Kronoform]]'' line, where he was called "Robot Time Machine" and had the unique honor of appearing in a television commercial that advertised him as being, at the least, a [[Six Changer]] (albeit a highly unconvincing one).
* He has the distinction of being THE prototypical transforming watch toy of the 1980s, with scores of knock-offs produced during that era. Surprisingly, one of these was advertised ''within'' an issue of Marvel's ''Transformers'' series! "[[The Next Best Thing to Being There!]]" featured [[:File:BonkersRobotWatch.jpg|an ad from the Nabisco company]] for a "Robot-Watch" (plainly Autobot, with "Quartz" replacing "Takara" on his chest) at the cost of $3.95 and 3 "Bonkers" candy labels.
* Two versions of Autobot's packaging are depicted in ''[[Transformers Generations (guidebook)|Transformers Generations]]'', one using his ''Micro Change'' art with an Autobot symbol slapped on and the other with original art. According to the text, the former was a packaging mock-up; the one shown on this page is how he was released.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Vector Prime''' (ベクタープライム ''Bekutā Puraimu'')
*''Hungarian:'' '''Vector Fővezér'''
*''Korean:'' '''Vector Prime''' (벡터 프라임 ''Bekteo Peuraim'')
*''Indonesian:'' '''Dexter Prime'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Vector''' (Taiwan, 貝克達 ''Bèikèdá''), '''Yǐn Tiān Xíng''' (China, 引天行), '''Xiàngliàng Zhìzūn''' (''Earth Wars'', 向量至尊 "Vector Supreme")
*''Ukrainian:'' '''Vektor Naykrashchyy''' (Вектор Найкращий, "Vector the Best")

==External links==
*[http://www.insecticons.com/vector-qa-00.html Ask Vector Prime archive at ''In Space, No One Can Hear Starscream'']
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNlb0h6qig8 Kronoform Robot Time Machine commercial on youtube]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Attacktix]]
[[Category:Alternity Autobots]]
[[Category:Animated Autobots]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Autobots]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising Transformers]]
[[Category:Council members]]
[[Category:Cybertron Autobots]]
[[Category:Cyberverse Transformers]]
[[Category:Dimension hoppers]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category:Female Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Autobots]]
[[Category:Guardians]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Legacy Autobots]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
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[[Category:Repurposed toys]]
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[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:Watches]]

Nova Prime

2024-12-18T16:14:31Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */ Confirmed as 13 Member. Important note for this version of NP.

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Prima.png|cSize=40px|cLink=Prima|cPretty=Prima}}|autobot|decepticon|unicron}}
{{disambigm|Nova Prime (disambiguation)|Nemesis Prime (disambiguation)}}
:''Nova Prime is a [[Transformer]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:Novaprime.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[[Furmanism|Ahead, hovering, like some vast, predatory bird...]]]]
'''Nova Prime''' was the predecessor to [[Nominus Prime]]. Once the elite soldier '''Nova Major''', he led the unification of a divided [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], ascending to leadership of his people. An expansionist and a supremacist, Nova Prime believed that [[Transformer]]s were the greatest among all life forms and that they should bring their glory to the myriad of lesser races throughout the universe.

After being sucked into the [[Dead Universe]], Nova was chosen to be the host for [[Darkness (G1)|the Darkness]], an otherworldly counterpart of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] which worked by transforming the inhabitants of the Dead Universe into [[Zombie|undead wielders of anti-life]]. Upon merging, Nova was reborn as the sinister and extremely powerful '''Nemesis Prime'''. He now sees it as his mission to fulfil the Darkness' imperative by expanding the Dead Universe's hold into the living realm.

Nemesis may seem to hold sway over both his troops and the Darkness, but nothing could be further from the truth. The powerful [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] sees the Darkness as his rightful inheritance. And then, there is the fear. The fear that the Darkness has more in common with the Matrix than Nemesis is comfortable with. He feels he has earned this power, and isn't willing to see it follow its natural path. It is for this reason he must eliminate Optimus Prime. And it is for this reason he fears to face his successor.

{{bigquote|Nova was forever seeking, forever testing the limits of science and faith. He had a certain moral...ambiguity about the Cybertronian ideal.|[[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]|"[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]"}}

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]]}}

{{quote|'''I AM THE LEGACY OF PRIMUS!'''|Nova Prime|"[[Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things]]"}}

[[File:TheCrucible NovaMajorEucryphia.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.4]]
Long ago in [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron's]] past, there was a [[First Cybertronian Civil War|great war]] (no, not [[Great War (G1)|that one]]) and Nova Major fought for his tribe's leader [[Prima]]. Ten million years ago, Prima flew the coop and Nova was left as the last soldier standing at the Siege of the [[Citadel of Light]] until [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] arrived out of the wilderness. The two fought against the beast hordes and drove them back, turning the siege into a by-word for courage. [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the last Prime on the planet, was the one who brought them together in the hope that they could end the war.

Realizing the Primes were gone, Nova went out and united the tribes (starting with [[Rhinox (BW)|the beasts]]) to create a unified Cybertronian society, one for all Cybertronians and where everyone would be "[[functionism|in their place]]." Trion later claimed that this did not sound sinister at the time.

[[File:PrimusAllGoodThings-introdump.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|"I, '''Nova Prime''', stand ready to use my '''homage''' powers to enforce a pleasing '''metafictionality!'''"]]

With Trion's blessing, Nova took the mantle of Prime. {{storylink|The Crucible}} With the war over, he and his closest friends and advisors Galvatron, [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]], and [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] went on a quest in Cybertron's underground, hoping to rediscover the lost principles of their gods, the [[Guiding Hand]]. Nova found the Hand's old home: [[Crystal City]], with its guardian [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]. Omega joined Nova's crew and they worked to bring about the legendary [[Golden Age]]. {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}}

Soon, Nova's ambition grew and he secretly began planning the [[Expansion]], the Cybertronian conquest of the universe. Obsessed with the Hand's prophecy that "[['Til all are one|all shall be one]]", he intended to enslave all other lifeforms in order to "free" them from their individual wills and make them part of something greater—Nova's empire. He formed the [[Primal Vanguard]] for off-world peacekeeping and began work on the first ''[[Ark (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|Ark]]'', claiming it was meant for trade and exploration when it was in truth the first step of the Expansion. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 2: Hangers On|Hangers On}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} However, his plans hit a snag when [[Vector Sigma]]'s flow of new [[spark]]s began to cease. Fearing that his Expansion would be impossible with a limited population of Cybertronians at his disposal, Nova had a team of scientists led by [[Solomus|Tyrest]] tap into the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and use its power to create new life, a process that was covered up as a "population augmentation program" that made use of [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|"spark splicing"]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}} {{storylink|Remain in Light 3 of 5: The Divided Self|The Divided Self}} Nova Prime also wished to evolve Cybertronians in preparation for their destiny as rulers of the universe, and against Omega's wishes, he had Jhiaxus re-engineer [[Pretender Monster|six Transformers]] to be able to [[Combiner|combine]] into a being of higher intellect and strength, in hopes of uncovering the secret of [[Nexus Prime]]'s [[Enigma of Combination]]. However they were driven mad by the merging, and they devolved into [[Monstructor (G1)|a monster]] that tore through Crystal City before they were stopped. Nova didn't care about the destruction though, feeling the city had outlived its usefulness. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:DarkCybertron1 NovaOrdersEntryIntoDU.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.7|Their "Prime Directive" is the literal opposite of [[Star Trek]]'s.]]
Nova Prime and his closest comrades boarded the ''Ark'' to enact the Expansion, making their way to the [[Benzuli Expanse]] where they discovered a portal to the [[Dead Universe]]. Seeing it as just ''another'' universe to conquer, Nova ordered the ship to pass through, not worried at all by the fact that the portal itself was pulling them in. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} The ship never reappeared and the crew was presumed dead, but Nova's aggressive intentions never came to light, and the Transformers honored his memory with a statue. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}} The Matrix he once carried remained on Cybertron, hidden in the [[Underworld|Undergrid]] {{storylink|Transformation (issue)|Transformation}}, with a fake one (that everyone believed was real) left behind for his successor, [[Nominus Prime]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 1: Post Hoc|Post Hoc}} Meanwhile, his population expansion had left Cybertron with energon shortages and caused an outburst of racism, complete with a period of apartheid, against the constructed Transformers created by his spark splicing program. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}}

[[File:Escalation6 OptimusNemesisInfraspace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|[[Lightbright (G1)|Lite-Brite]], Lite-Brite, make a face to glow at night!]]
The Prime was thought dead but countless years later, when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] downloaded himself into [[infraspace]] to survive an attack from [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], he sensed the presence of Nova Prime... and was filled with an incredible sense of dread. {{storylink|Escalation issue 6|Escalation #6}} These feelings led Optimus Prime to seek information from Omega Supreme, and shared with him his belief that Nova might still be alive, and his feelings of dread. In turn, Omega told Optimus of Nova's story, and later learned of Monstructor. Optimus was left with the knowledge that the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] lineage had been corrupt from the start, and it gave the Autobot leader something to ponder about. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}}

It was later learned that Optimus Prime's assessment was right: Nova Prime was still functioning, though in a strange half-dead state in the [[Dead Universe]], and was now the fearsome figure known as Nemesis Prime, powered by the almighty mind-altering anti-Matrix, the [[Darkness (G1)|Darkness]], which ruled the Dead Universe. His grand plan, the Expansion, was now intended to merge the Dead Universe with the real one, allowing him to both return home at long last ''and'' direct the merged universe into a new, more ''ordered'' era.

[[File:Jhiaxusnemesisprimedevastation.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.3|Not even a toy yet and he's already got a [[black repaint]].]]
He already had an outpost and minions on [[Gorlam Prime]], ready to direct his coming Expansion. He had [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] captured by [[Sports Car Patrol|some of his minions]] and programmed {{storylink|Spotlight: Nightbeat}} to assassinate Optimus Prime at a set time, {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}} as he subconsciously knew the Darkness would behave like the Matrix and jump from him to Optimus if given the chance. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

With that secured, Nemesis Prime decided that the Expansion was ready to begin. He dispatched [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a mission to secure [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], kill the Autobots guarding him, and bring the [[Pretender]] to the Dead Universe. Galvatron secured Thunderwing, but spared the Autobots, viewing it as a small rebellion against Nova. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}} After observing the [[Reaper]]s about to destroy [[Earth]], he ordered Galvatron there to stop them, since the Earth was part of their expansion plan. {{storylink|Devastation issue 3|Devastation #3}} Galvatron performed his task well, but Prime remarked to Jhiaxus that he was aware that Galvatron had his own agendas and secrets. {{storylink|Devastation issue 6|Devastation #6}}

After [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] secured the [[Nega-Core]] and activated its guardian, Nemesis Prime initiated the Expansion with the rest of the [[Dead Universe]] crew. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}}

Nemesis Prime was found by Jhiaxus on the remains of the ''Ark'', thinking back on old times and planning for the future. Upon receiving the latest intelligence on both Cyclonus and Nightbeat, he dismissed the former and requested Jhiaxus take care of the Nightbeat situation personally. When Jhiaxus reported Nightbeat's death, Nemesis was unmoved, deciding he would take over Nightbeat's mission and deal with Optimus Prime himself. {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}}

[[File:DarknessNemesis.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|He's an 8.5 on the Kirby Dot Scale!]]
Nemesis Prime attacked the prison facility on [[Garrus-9]] while Optimus Prime was inspecting it. The Autobot defense forces were helpless against him: Nemesis was immune to all their firepower and used his deadly decaying touch to instantly snuff out their lives. Seeing that conflict was futile, Optimus Prime ordered all the defenders to retreat, then faced Nemesis Prime directly. Nemesis gloated about the upcoming Expansion, then revealed to Optimus Prime the nature of the Darkness and channeled it as a weapon against Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Spotlight: Doubledealer}}

Unfortunately for Nemesis, the Darkness ''did'' want to leap to Optimus as he had feared, and it would do so if he either used it or touched Optimus. Enraged, Nemesis backed off and resorted to firing a torrent of normal energy. Optimus was able to withstand the blast however, but their fight ended abruptly when Nemesis, distracted by the battle, was shot in the back and killed by Galvatron, as part of his plan to claim the Darkness for himself. Though Optimus Prime soon destroyed the Darkness-infused Galvatron (or so he thought), Optimus remarked that he could not mourn his predecessor, noting that Nova Prime was long dead. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

[[File:HoD3 NemesisPrimeRevealed.jpg|thumb|right|Now filled with Black Moon clan essence.]]
Nemesis's body was taken back to Cybertron, where [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] took custody of it and began studying it in his lab in hopes of finding out more about the Dead Universe. He eventually came to speculate that Nemesis had not actually perished, but rather, that his life-essence had returned to the Dead Universe. What Brainstorm was ''not'' aware of, however, was the bolt of energy that had leapt from Nemesis's corpse to his own body, leaving him in a living-dead state of his own. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

Brainstorm's supposition was proven correct when Nemesis Prime reappeared on the planet [[Dykayra]], emerging from a portal to the Dead Universe to confront Galvatron. His wounds pulsating with dark energy, he now served the greater being of which the Darkness had always been but a small part: the [[D-Void]]. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 3|Heart of Darkness #3}} Apparently seeking to retake the Darkness from Galvatron, Nemesis briefly battled him and his army, brushing off their firepower and destroyed several of Galvatron's minions by devouring their energy. He then mutated into a gigantic, horrible monster, seemingly falling under the D-Void's direct control in the process, and continued the fight against Galvatron. In the end, Galvatron was able to summon his army and force the malformed Nemesis Prime back through the portal, which he then destroyed. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}}

[[File:FinestHour NovaGalvatronExitMegatron.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|"Hey, what's the big idea? Move it, chowdah-head!"{{-}}"''Whoob whoob whoob''!"]]
As it transpired, however, Nemesis had not sought to reclaim the Darkness, but had rather only been used a pawn by D-Void in its attempts to motivate Galvatron into using the Darkness to destroy Cybertron. Following the D-Void's destruction and Galvatron's own consignment to the Dead Universe, Nemesis was at last free of its influence, and reverted to being "Nova Prime" in name and appearance once more. Working with Galvatron, he made contact with Jhiaxus and his old pupil [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] in the living universe, and began an apparent plot to conquer Cybertron and return it to Nova's leadership. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Initially hoping to use the [[space bridge]] of Shockwave's [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]] as transport out of the Dead Universe, {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} Nova and Galvatron were forced to use Megatron's personal space bridge when that plan faltered. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}} However, as Nova was about to emerge in the living universe, the united forces of [[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]]'s Autobots and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons attacked Shockwave's lair, and in the chaos, Nova was punched by [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] back into the Dead Universe.

[[File:NoExit NovaAndOrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.6]]
Trapped yet again, Nova Prime directed his rage upon a group of intruders who had entered the Dead Universe while he had been occupied: Orion Pax and his band. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}} Amused with Orion's choice to no longer call himself a Prime, Nova proceeded to mock Cyclonus, claiming that his former crewmate had been nothing but a hanger-on. After [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] broke out of the containment field Nova had sealed the group in, Nova destroyed his protective forcefield generator, allowing the Autobot to be consumed and disintegrated by the Dead Universe. {{storylink|No Exit: Dark Cybertron Chapter 6|No Exit}} Demonstrating his growing ability to manipulate the energies of the Dead Universe, Nova took the remainder of the group to his citadel, where he kept [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], whom he had been attempting to convert into a living spacebridge. In the energy of his captives' [[spark]]s, Nova Prime finally saw a chance to escape the universe. {{Storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead Are Not Enough}}

[[File:RID26 my name is optimus prime.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7|Blue blazes!]]
However, the prisoners were able to liberate Nightbeat, still under Nova's control after all these years, and he then helped them escape their cage. Confronting them, Nova Prime took the opportunity to challenge his successor to battle once more. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} Nova employed some psychological warfare on Pax, using his control of the Dead Universe to make himself shape-shift into each member of the Prime lineage to mock Orion with its tainted legacy. After Nova became a mirror image of him, Pax sank into temporary despair as Nova began gaining the upper hand. However, [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] delivered a pep talk that got Pax back on his feet, just before being blasted by Nova. Re-accepting his role as Prime and his duty to brighten that dark lineage, Optimus promptly tore Nova's arm off and finally slew his evil predecessor with a punch clear through the villain's chest. Upon expiring, Nova Prime's crumbling body reverted to its natural appearance. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}}

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to Orion, this was exactly what Shockwave had wanted all along; with Nova dead, the Dead Universe's energies were now Shockwave's to control as part of his ''true'' plan to end all life in the universe. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}} Nova's corpse had one final use to serve, though: when Optimus's team heard singing emanating from it, they realized that it contained a link back to the living universe, and used the technology of his citadel to convert his body into a space bridge home. They emerged through a portal in Brainstorm's own chest, thanks to his own living-dead link to the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

[[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]] later cited Nova Prime—along with [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel]] and [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta]]—as examples of the corrupt lineage of the Primes, to discredit Optimus and sway the opinion of the [[Council of Worlds]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 3: The Medium and the Message|The Medium and the Message}} After being removed from power and receiving a life sentence, Starscream defended his reign of Cybertron to Bumblebee by bringing up Nova Prime trying to destroy the universe multiple times. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}}

====The Functionist Universe====
In an [[Functionist Universe|alternate timeline]] where the [[Functionist Council]] overthrew Nominus Prime and ruled Cybertron, they discovered the truth behind Nova Prime's spark splicing program and declared it heresy. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
At some point during Cybertron's history, Nova Prime held the Matrix. When he inherited the talisman, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Orion Pax]] glimpsed Nova's spirit along with his other predecessors during a trip through the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]]. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:Legendscardgame-NovaPrime.jpg|right|thumb|300px|]]
The peace of Nova Prime's rule over Cybertron was shattered by the arrival of a future version of himself named [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis Prime]]. Though Nova Prime rallied [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] in an attempt to quell this future shade, Nemesis Prime triumphed over the Autobots. {{storylink|Prime Evil}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Devastation''===
[[File:Devastation-Nova-Madness.jpg|right|thumb|Insane in the Mainframe]]

Nova Prime was known as the conqueror of the [[Benzuli Expanse]], greatest Autobot to bear the Matrix, and all around great guy. He inspired [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Bad Bots]] to be good and [[Kranix (G1)|Good Bots]] to be better. It was he who led the Mission of Cybertronian Expansion, hoping to create [[Cybertronian colonies|colonies]] on cyberformed planets for future Cybertronians to inhabit, thereby preserving their culture forever.

The mission started out as a tremendous success. The crew would find uninhabited planets and using the [[Ferrotaxis]], a [[Plasma Core]], and the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon Swarm]] aboard Nova Prime's ship, the ''[[Proudstar]]'', a planet could be quickly cyberformed and ready for colonization. After [[Lithone (planet)|Lithone]] had been cyberformed, resources began to wane and the ''Proudstar'' made a supply run on a [[Unicron/Generation 1|mysterious planet]]. [[File:Devastation-Nova-Awakens.jpg|left|thumb|Nova Prime is awake, and he's mad you broke all his stuff.]] As the crew resupplied, a darkness fell over them and their ship, causing them to become corrupt and mad. Before the crew left the planet, Nova Prime pointed it in the direction of Cybertron. As the ''Proudstar'' sailed through the galaxy, the darkness began to grow in Nova Prime, with righteous pride, as opposed to once peaceful intentions, beginning to guide his mission. Nova Prime eventually began targeting inhabited planets for cyberforming, wiping out several civilizations. One of these planets was [[Earth]] where, thanks to some sabotage courtesy of a guilt-ridden [[Kranix (G1)|Kranix]], the ''Proudstar'' crashed into the surface and trapped its crew and resources in stasis. Unaware of what had transpired on his fateful mission, the populace of Cybertron declared Nova Prime as missing in action while heralding him as one of the greatest heroes their race had ever produced.

In the late 20th century, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] discovered the ''Proudstar'' and tried to use it to cyberform Earth only for his plot to be foiled by Nova's eventual successor Optimus Prime. Though Optimus had believed the ''Proudstar'' to be offline once again, some unseen power supply still thrummed deep within its bowels and, within a broken [[stasis pod]], reawakened Nova Prime! {{storylink|Transformers: Devastation|Devastation}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:Battle-Tactics-Nova-Prime.jpg|thumb|400px|I ''am'' the most powerful Prime!]]
Nova Prime participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a an Epic character who was available in the (last) February Daily Campaign, and could be recruited by collecting 20 Alpha cores, 20 Beta Cores, 20 Omega cores, and 10 cores of this character. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Frontiers''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Frontiers}}}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Nova Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
Nova Prime was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}

An aggressive seeker of advancement of the Cybertronian race, Nova Prime observed many realities, frustrated that in none of them did Cybertronians unite to take their rightful place as leaders of the universe. To change destiny, Nova Prime instigated a [[Time Vortex]] in one universe to trap the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] and [[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]] in [[1984]], which would gradually unravel the entire fabric of reality, allowing him to conduct his own [[Great Resetting]].

Upon arriving in normal spacetime, Nova Prime retrieved the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] from a slow-time bubble and recruited them to his cause, leaving behind [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] others who refused to follow anyone but [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Bringing his new acolytes to [[inner space]], Nova Prime maintained the other Terrorcons in stasis, instead assigning [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] alone to retrieve Sinnertwin's own Megatron, preferably intact. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Nova Prime arrival}} The opposition concluded that to stop a Prime's gambit, they would need a Prime's tool, the [[Forge of Solus Prime]]. {{storylink|History Repeating}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Thrilling-30-Nemesis-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|]]
:''See: [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Toys]]''

:The ''Legends'' game event "[[Prime Evil]]", [[repurposing|repurposes]] the character model of [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|G1 Nemesis Prime]] as the future version of Nova Prime, because the [[:File:TFLegends-NemesisPrime.jpg|Nemesis Prime cards]] available in that event use the same bio as the one we previously got in "[[Nemesis Rising]]", where he was an evil clone of Optimus Prime created by [[Doctor Arkeville]]. We'll just link you to that dude's toy page, rather than reproduce it all here.
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-NovaPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|That's weird, this doesn't look anything like Glenn Close.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Nova Prime''' (Deluxe Class, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': "[[Fusion cannon|Quantum Fusion cannon]]", "[[G-Metal]] Battle Axe"

: The first of two [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusives for 2015, Nova Prime is a [[redeco]] of that same year's member incentive figure, [[Lio Convoy#Timelines 2|Lio Convoy]]. Both were retooled from ''Thrilling 30'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Deluxe|Orion Pax]] and feature a new head. Nova still comes with the blaster and axe, which can store via a 5mm peg on either side of the vehicle mode. Although not depicted on the instructions, the Quantum Fusion cannon can also peg into the hole on the larger blade of the Energon Axe.

: The foam insert in Nova Prime's box features an extra slot to store either the aforementioned incentive figure Lio Convoy, or the [[BotCon 2015]] customization class exclusive [[Galva Convoy#Timelines|Galva Convoy]], both of whom are featured in the exterior [[package art]].

: This figure officially [[Repurposing|doubles]] as ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Optimus Prime (SG)#NovaPrime|Nova Prime]]. This mold was also used to make Galva Convoy.
{{--}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:LegacyNovaPrime.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Estuans interius! Ira vehementi! '''SEPHIROTH!''']]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''Nova Prime''' (Leader Class, [[2023]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Armor pieces, 2 missile launchers, laser cannon/truck cannon barrel, 2 front wheels/armguards
:*''Known designers'': [[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBqMyy6HYxE San Diego Comic-Con 2023 Generations panel recording] at the "Memo's collection" YouTube channel</ref>

:Part of the [[Amazon_(website) | Amazon]]-exclusive ''Pre-Cybertronian War Collection'' imprint, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy: Evolution]]'' Nova Prime is a [[retool]] and [[redeco]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#S40|Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime]], itself an extensive retool of ''Siege'' [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Ultra Magnus]], based on Nova's appearance in ''[[Transformers: Devastation]]''. He transforms into a heavily-armed, futuristic truck.

:Compared to Optimus, Nova has new wings, new shoulders, a new headsculpt, and a new chest, all in "super" mode. He includes all of Optimus's accessories, redecoed into Nova's regular color scheme. Being a retool of the ''Siege'' Magnus/Optimus mold, Nova is compatible with either of the two's armor sets, and Optimus and Magnus likewise are more or less compatible with Nova's armor pieces. The stock images (seen on the right) released after his reveal show a broken sample, where the figure's right ear tip is shown to be broken.

:Like Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime, Nova Prime also features flip-out support struts on the leg armor to compensate for the back's weight. While they're hardly needed since the armor's bulk is heavy enough to support the weight, the pieces also prevent the leg armor from standing flat when folded in.

:In vehicle mode, the trailer does not actually attach to the truck in a way that keeps its wheels lined up and consequently part of the trailer/armor section risks scraping if pushed across a surface.

:Nova Prime was revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con#2023|San Diego Comic-Con]] on [[July 20]], 2023, and went up for pre-order on Amazon the following day, with [[Hasbro Pulse]] also receiving a limited supply of the figure.
{{WFCSiegeUltraMagnusMold}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:NovaPrime variousmodes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I would have waited an eternity for this… it’s Nova Prime!]]
*Nova Prime's design began life as an Optimus Prime toy concept that artist [[Don Figueroa]] had drawn for [[Hasbro]], but ultimately went unused. In fact, part of the combined "[[Super Mode]]" concept art was first seen on the [[BotCon 2005]]-exclusive cover for [[Infiltration issue 0|''Infiltration'' #0]] (and the full art was seen in ''[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]''). Figueroa credits [[Simon Furman]] for the creation of Nova Prime as a character and reused the unused Optimus Prime design for Nova as he was not aware a new character needed to be designed before receiving the script for ''Spotlight: Optimus Prime'';<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|quote=Nova was solely a @SimonFurman3 creation, I just simply repurposed a rejected Optimus design I did much earlier because I wasn’t told a new character needed to be created/designed for this issue prior to me receiving the script|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639697794750619651|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> given enough time, Figueroa would have made Nova's vehicle mode more Cybertronian.<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639753581233606656|quote=If I had advanced notice, I would have given him a more Cybertronian looking vehicle mode, preferably one without Earth looking tires. But I just straight up pulled him out of my portfolio as is (except for the head)|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> The head design, which had appeared prior as a vision in [[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]], is by [[E. J. Su]].<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639754070713057280|site=Twitter|name=Don Figueroa|quote=The head, btw is based on the one designed by @ejsu28 which appeared as a hologram in an earlier issue|year=2023|month=03|day=25}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Nova Prime''' (ノバ・プライム ''Noba Puraimu'', ノヴァ・プライム ''Nova Puraimu''), '''Nemesis Prime''' (ネメシス・プライム ''Nemeshisu Puraimu'')
*''Korean:'' '''Nova Prime''' (노바 프라임 ''Noba Peulaim'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Yào Tiān Wēi''' (耀天威, "Sky-deterrence Shine" ), '''Xīnghuáng''' (''Earth Wars'', 星皇 "Star Emperor")
*''Russian:'' '''Nova Prime''' (Нова Прайм ''Nova Praym'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{IDWPrimes nav}}
{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Dead Universe]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Legacy characters]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Primes]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Alpha Trion/Generation 1

2024-12-18T16:13:14Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */ He's confirmed as a 13 Member. He has a Prime Core.

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-AlphaTrion.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Alpha Trion (G1)|cPretty=Alpha Trion}}|autobot|autobotg2|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Alpha Trion}}
:''Alpha Trion is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-Legendsartclean.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm sure I'm just a wise old sage and nothing any more complicated or cosmic than that!]]

'''Alpha Trion''' (aka '''A-3''') is one of the oldest living Transformers, and with that age comes a nuanced understanding of his race and their place within the universe. In his youth, he was instrumental in establishing [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] as an independent galactic power, and in his older years, he has found a comfortable role in serving as advisor to other Transformers.

Though Alpha Trion rarely takes part in the battles of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], he is firmly on the side of the Autobots and serves as a mentor and guide, especially to [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He is an enigmatic old robot, and in many realities he is the guardian of [[Vector Sigma]] and the custodian of its [[Key to Vector Sigma|circuit key]]. His sage-like manner paints him in almost a mystic tone, and possible connections between Alpha Trion, [[Primus]], and the history of Cybertron itself have boosted him into legendary status.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[John Stephenson]] (English), [[Corey Burton]] (English, "War Dawn"), [[Tony Pope]] (English, "Forever Is a Long Time Coming"), [[Osamu Saka]] (Japanese), [[Toshiro Ishii]] (Japanese, "War Dawn"), [[Hiroshi Naka]] (Japanese, "The Rebirth")|[[Chen Chun]] (Chinese), [[Wolfgang Mascher]] (German, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2" and "The Rebirth, Part 2"), [[Ramón Rocabayera]] (Spain-Spanish), [[Alejandro Abdalah]] (Latin American Spanish), [[François Leccia]] (European French, "The Search for Alpha Trion"), Unknown (European French, "The Key to Vector Sigma" episodes & "War Dawn"), [[Albert Augier]] (European French, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French, "The Rebirth" episodes), [[Magalhães Graça]] (Portuguese), [[Jomeri Pozzoli]] (Portuguese, "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2")}}

[[File:YoungA3.jpg|left|thumb|Silverbolt never misses a chance to check out A-3's rugged mustache.]]
11 million years ago, a mechanoid named A-3 was part of the [[Autobot Rebellion|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s on a [[Cybertron (planet)|factory world]], creating a device called the [[Coder Remote]] that would stop their [[Dark Guardian]]s. Due to a timerift created by Quintessons from the future, he was briefly pulled from his position in the [[Empty Lands]] into the year 2006. Fortunately, his partner [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] managed to start the rebellion as scheduled, and A-3 was soon returned by future [[Autobot]]s to fulfill his role in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

[[File:Alphatrionagesbackwards.jpg|thumb|He grew a beard, picked up the Matrix, shaved his beard, and then built Optimus, apparently.]]
Years later, he would be given the [[Matrix of Leadership]] by the dying [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], but Alpha Trion himself did not become Autobot leader. It would sit in his possession, unused, until the coming of the next Autobot leader. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} In the meantime, Alpha Trion developed plans to rebuild Autobots to better combat the escalating [[Decepticon]] menace.

The next Autobot leader would actually come to ''him'' when a [[Aerialbot (G1)|group of time-travelers]] lugged a dying youth named Orion Pax to his repair center. Reluctant at first, Alpha Trion sensed a strong spirit in Orion Pax, and decided to rebuild him entirely... into [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]. When Prime asked if Alpha Trion could rebuild his fallen girlfriend Ariel as well, Alpha Trion agreed, and mused that [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] would be a good name for a female warrior. {{storylink|War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn}}

[[File:AlphaTrion.jpg|left|thumb|Alpha Trion has secret liquor stashes in the strangest of places.]]

Over the intervening millennia, Alpha Trion's two greatest creations, whether by design or coincidence, forgot their relationship to the ancient Autobot. Five million years after his creation, Optimus Prime was lost when his spacecraft crash-landed on prehistoric Earth, but Alpha Trion kept in contact with Elita One, acting as a sagely advisor to her team of [[Female Autobots]] as they spent the following four million years stealing [[energon]] from [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. Eventually, in the Earth year 1985, Shockwave caught the Female Autobots in the act and tracked them back to their headquarters, prompting Elita One to consult with Alpha Trion on a course of action. Trion suggested they move their headquarters, telling Elita to scout for a new location alone, but in the event that she encountered the Decepticons, warned her not to use her life-draining time-freezing power. Alas, Elita was captured, and used by the Decepticons to lure Optimus Prime into a trap. To save her beloved's life, Elita used her fatal power, and the Autobot leader was forced to track Alpha Trion to [[Alpha Trion's base‎|his secret base]] in hopes that he could save her. Alpha Trion repaired her to the best of his ability, but revealed to Optimus Prime that only Prime could save Elita by interfacing to her with his power filter. An astonished Optimus Prime stated that only his creator could know that! {{storylink|The Search for Alpha Trion}}

[[File:Ktvs prime and trion.jpg|thumb|"Hey"]]

A short time later, while he was looking for a [[10.2 ultra-drill|misplaced tool]], Alpha Trion was attacked in his workshop by [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] and his Decepticons, who demanded that he hand over the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]. Trion pled ignorance, but Megatron knew better, and the elderly Autobot was soon overpowered while the Decepticons made off with the key. Alpha Trion was rescued from the chunk of metal the Decepticons left him stuck in by Optimus Prime and the Autobots, and after his injuries were repaired by [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], he journeyed with them into Cybertron's depths, leading the way to Vector Sigma's chamber. Their way, however, was barred by [[Centurion droid]]s that Megatron used the Key to command, and Alpha Trion helped reactivate some discarded worker robots to fight the droids off. The droids had done their job, however, and prevented the Autobots from reaching Megatron before he used Vector Sigma to bring his newest Decepticons, the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] to life. To combat these new land-based Decepticons, Optimus Prime hit on the idea of creating some new aerial Autobots, and Alpha Trion set to work reconstructing some Cybertronian aircraft. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} When the work was done, Alpha Trion professed that he had another key to Vector Sigma "on him," and he would use it to reactivate the computer so that it could bring the jets to life. His "key," however, was his own life force: as a first generation product of Vector Sigma, his [[computation matrix]] could interface with the computer and bring it back online, at the cost of his own continued existence. Optimus Prime tried to stop him, but Alpha Trion refused to listen, reminding Prime that he was his creator and insisting that the jets were more important than he was. Prime relented, and Alpha Trion merged with Vector Sigma, which activated and brought the new [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] to life. Before Prime and the Autobots departed for Earth, Alpha Trion spoke to them through Vector Sigma, warning them of a fact merging with the computer had revealed to him: on Earth, the Key to Vector Sigma had even greater power. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

Many years later, when the [[Hate Plague]] was raging throughout the universe in the year 2006, Optimus Prime entered the Matrix to consult the ancient Autobots within on a possible cure. Alpha Trion was the first Prime spoke to, but he had no information to give, save a warning that Prime should take care on his journey into the Matrix, lest he be unable to return. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

The following year, after the Decepticons stole the [[Key to the Plasma Energy Chamber]], Optimus Prime used the Matrix to reactivate Vector Sigma so that he could converse with Alpha Trion, hoping that the old sage knew something more about what was going on. Alpha Trion revealed to Prime that Vector Sigma had ''allowed'' [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] to become aware of the key's existence, as the chamber was key to the dawning of a new [[Golden Age]] for Cybertron... as was the merging of an [[Cerebros (G1)|Autobot]]'s life with that of a [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|human]]'s. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}} Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus one final time, urging him to preserve the key at all costs, as it would be vital in fulfilling Vector Sigma's prophecy. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 3}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in the Japanese timeline as described above, except that the events of 2006 take place instead in 2010, and "The Rebirth" does not occur. Japanese continuity inserts many additional stories into the timeline.}}

=====''Generations Selects Special Comic''=====
The consciousness of [[Primus]] observed Beta and A3 drive the Quintessons off of their planet. {{storylink|Generations Selects Special Comic Finale|Finale}}

=====''The Headmasters'' cartoon=====
{{voiceactor|[[Masaharu Satō]] (Japanese)}}

[[File:AlphaTrionGhost.jpg|thumb|Alpha Trion's Spooooooky Ghost]]
In the year 2011, one year after Optimus Prime released the energy of the Matrix to cure the Hate Plague, Vector Sigma began to destabilize as a result. Optimus Prime voyaged into the planet's depths to try and bring the computer back under control, but the mission seemed doomed to failure, as he did not have the Matrix to help him. While the other Autobots searched Earth for the Matrix, which had been hidden away to recharge, the spectral form of Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus Prime to help lead him through the many dangers blocking the path to Vector Sigma's chamber. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}} When they finally reached their goal, however, it turned out the Decepticons had beaten them there. [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] was not far behind, with the recovered Matrix in his grasp, and when the young Autobot arrived, Alpha Trion instructed him to hold the talisman aloft. Trion's ethereal form flowed into the Matrix, completing its recharging process and transforming [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] back into Rodimus Prime, who joined Optimus in thrashing the Decepticons. {{storylink|Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime}}

=====Train Wars=====
The incorporeal Alpha Trion sensed a threat to [[Vector Sigma]] from inside the Matrix, and rematerialized on the physical plane to address the problem. He discovered [[The Fallen]] attempting to steal and assume the power of Vector Sigma for himself. Downplaying his own importance, Alpha Trion attempted to advise [[Shouki]] and the other Autobot defenders present. {{storylink|Train Wars}}

Upon recovering Vector Sigma from the Fallen, Alpha Trion once again sacrificed his physical form to merge with Vector Sigma, giving it the drive necessary to reformat Shouki into a "train bazooka" mode, powerful enough to defeat the Fallen. {{storylink|Train Wars 2}}

=====''G-2'' story pages=====
[[File:G2StoryPageReconfigurationMatrix1.jpg|thumb|left]]
When Optimus Prime was fatally injured in battle with Megatron, the spirits of Alpha Trion and former leaders residing within the Matrix activated its [[Reconfiguration Matrix]] mechanism, reviving Prime as Battle Convoy. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 5}}

=====''Legends'' comic=====
Alpha Trion and the Matrix—possibly the Reconfiguration Matrix again—had a hand in Rodimus Prime's transformation into a [[Micromaster]]. {{storylink|Transformers 2015 Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter|Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter}}

To counter the rise of [[Galvatron II]], Battle Convoy contacted the spirit of Alpha Trion within the Matrix and requested his help in reviving [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. Locating Magnus among the spirits of former leaders residing in the Matrix, Trion convinced him he was needed in the world of the living and entered his chest, using his unique connection with the Matrix to act as a substitute Matrix and bring both himself and Magnus back to life. Trion was restored in a tiny body that popped out of Magnus's chest. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#Resurrection Chapter|Resurrection Chapter}} Granted the ability to predict the future by his merging with Vector Sigma, Alpha Trion then foresaw that Megatron would return to his evil ways in the [[Legends World]] he had settled in. Seeking to stop this, the sage himself traveled to this other universe, using his diminutive body to disguise himself as a janitor at the [[Axalon Trading Company]] while waiting for Megatron to make his move. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

When the employees of Axalon Co. got curious about Metroplex—who'd ended up as their new office building after getting summoned into the Legends Universe—Alpha Trion taught them about the city-bot's past. He accidentally blew his cover by explaining he knew this much because he was from "the other world", though fortunately(?) the employees wrongly assumed he meant the world of the dead. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter|The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter}} Alpha Trion was present when Megatron made his move, teaming up with [[Megatron (Armada)|Armada Megatron]] to conquer the Legends World. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter|The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter}} In response, he cast his disguise aside and used an [[10.2 ultra-drill|ultra-drill]] to summon Ultra Magnus from their home universe. At first Magnus told Trion to get back in his chest, but the sage assured him he no longer needed Trion's Matrix power but had to rely on his own strength. After the Megatrons were defeated by Magnus, Alpha Trion confirmed to a curious [[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] that he could indeed predict the future, and had had a vision of the imminent arrival of [[Nightbird (G1)|Nightbird Shadow]], [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]], and [[Slipstream (Animated)|Slipstream]] as well. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

Alpha Trion later confirmed to a curious Rattrap that his new body was a [[Mini-Con]]-type one, though he got defensive when asked to display the third weapon mode Mini-Cons are supposed to have. Transforming into his hovercar mode, he claimed it was ''clearly'' a shield and displayed its usefulness by shielding Ultra Magnus from a barrage of lasers. Unfortunately his size meant he only took a fraction of the blasts, and Magnus was gunned down. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Alpha Trion Chapter|Alpha Trion Chapter}} Armada Megatron later bought an Ultra Magnus toy in order to examine it for the Autobot's weaknesses, defending his purchase of a non-Mini-Con toy to [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] by pointing out the Alpha Trion accessory. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Armada Megatron Chapter|Armada Megatron Chapter}}

Thanks to Alpha Trion's premonitions, the Autobots were prepared for Slipstream's arrival in the Legends World and easily defeated her. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 16|Bonus Edition Vol. 16}} While doing janitor work at [[Tera-Kura Co.]], he overheard Megatron talk about his plan to steal energy from people, and summoned [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] into the Legends World as reinforcement. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 17|Bonus Edition Vol. 17}} When [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] attempted to sacrifice himself to prevent [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] from destroying the Legends World, Alpha Trion opened a portal to Starscream's home universe and brought forth [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]] to stop him. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 18|Bonus Edition Vol. 18}}

Alpha Trion was later contacted by the [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] of his home universe, who requested to be brought to the Legends World. {{storylink|LG19 Sprung Prologue}} Following Springer's arrival, Trion had his ultra-drill stolen by a jealous [[Tigatron]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 19|Bonus Edition Vol. 19}} He was later caught up in Megatron's attack on the city when the Decepticon briefly returned to being Galvatron. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 23|Bonus Edition Vol. 23}} Aware that Alpha Trion contained the power of the Matrix, [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] had [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] capture the sage as part of a bid to take over Tera-Kura, but he was freed when the Matrix energies overloaded and exploded Scourge's [[transtector]]. He went on to teach Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]] how to be proper janitors. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 26|Bonus Edition Vol. 26}} When Tera-Kura purchased Metroplex from Axalon, Alpha Trion joined the Decepticon company so that he could stay with Metroplex. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 31|Bonus Edition Vol. 31}}

Alpha Trion was pretty careless with his ultra-drill; after Tigatron, it was also stolen by [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 33|Bonus Edition Vol. 33}} and [[Weirdwolf (G1)|Weirdwolf]] to serve their own needs. {{storylink|LG-43 Trypticon Project Chapter}} He was present when [[Ginrai (human)|God Ginrai]] tried to force his way into Tera-Kura Co., {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 42|Bonus Edition Vol. 42}} and later had his drill nabbed again by [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Magna Convoy)|Bonus Edition Vol. EX}} When Weirdwolf's Decepticon faction attacked Tera-Kura to nab Metroplex's [[transformation cog]], Alpha Trion did his best to fight off [[Apeface]]. {{storylink|LG43 Trypticon Mobilization Chapter: Decepticon Civil War|Decepticon Civil War}} Weirdwolf used the cog to rebuild [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]], so Trion responded by summoning [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]], who had previously bested the monster. Following Trypticon's defeat, he also called for the [[Disaster Relief Team]] to rebuild [[Akihabara]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 43|Bonus Edition Vol. 43}} Alpha Trion was later kidnapped by [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]], [[Triggerhappy (G1)|Triggerhappy]] and [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]], who forced him to summon the six [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] partners lost in the G1 World. He did as instructed only to find that the Targetmasters were emitting lethal amounts of [[plasma energy]], so he instead put the drill in reverse and scattered the six across the Legends World for everyone's safety. {{storylink|Mutant Targetmaster Birth Chapter}}

During a battle between Ultra Magnus and [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]], Alpha Trion entered Magnus's chest to lend him his power. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 50|Bonus Edition Vol. 50}} He contacted the [[Wreckers]] for help when the city came under attack from a [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]]-controlled Windblade. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} During the battle with [[Majin Zarak]], whom fate decreed could not be destroyed, Alpha Trion hooked his ultra-drill up to [[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]'s Drill Base in order to generate a giant portal that Zarak could be pushed through. Megatron then had him open portals all over the Legends World so the doomed world's citizens could be evacuated to the G1 World. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two}}

====''Wings Universe''====
{{Wingsnote}}

[[File:BattleLines6-stasishibernationpods.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67]]

After the ''[[Van De Graaff]]'' was shot down on [[Beta-Nine]], the proemial Alpha Unit of the [[Elite Guard]] managed to retrieve its cargo. The [[Matrix of Leadership|mysterious item]] was then delivered by [[Magnum]] to its custodian, Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Wings of Honor}}

Over the next ten years, the Decepticon insurrection became more fierce. Councilor Magnum continued to champion his Elite Guard, a series of strike teams dedicated to hunting down the [[Decepticon Warlord]]s to cut the many heads off the serpent. Councilor Alpha Trion, however, favored his own Prime Initiative, a general of sorts who would oversee the entire Autobot army as a unified force against the Decepticons. {{Storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 2}}

Despite their political differences, Alpha Trion and Magnum worked together as the situation called for it. When a group of civilian scientists and historians needed demolitions assistance at a dig site in [[Median]], Alpha Trion requested the help of Magnum's Elite Guard for the job. Of course, he neglected to mention some of the finer points of the mission, but such is politics. {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

After [[Dion (G1)|Dion]] and [[Magnum]] were injured in a Decepticon attack, they were taken to Alpha Trion. He was only able to save one of them, rebuilding the survivor into [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. As the war drained Cybertron's energy to dangerously low levels, Optimus left the planet on a mission to find more energy. Alpha Trion prepared stasis pods within which most of the remaining Autobot population would hibernate. As they placed the other Autobots in the pods, he warned [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] that remaining online during periods of low energy as he intended to do would greatly accelerate the aging process. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 6}}

When Optimus Prime and the other Autobots aboard the Ark were considered lost, Alpha Trion set about uniting the divided Cybertronian through other means. Using the remains of a Decepticon deep-space shuttle, he built [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] and brought him to life with the power of Vector Sigma, instructing the super-computer to imbue him with a need to unite Cybertron under one banner. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 44|''Wings Universe'' Jhiaxus profile}}

Centuries later, after the [[Great Transformation]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] dedicated himself to interfacing with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] in search of guidance from [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]]. After many failed attempts, Cheetor finally succeeded, instead meeting with Alpha Trion. Trion told Cheetor of his true destiny: to lead Cybertron into a new age of peace. Cheetor accepted his destiny and thus merged with Alpha Trion, becoming Alpha Trizer. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag|Alpha Trizer's profile}} In [[2984]] C.E. as Alpha Trizer engaged in combat against the [[Star Seeker]]s, the faces of Optimus Primal and Alpha Trion flashed through his mind. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag}}

====''Deviations''====
In an alternate timeline where [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] killed [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] in the [[Battle of Autobot City]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] ended up sacrificing himself to defeat [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megascream]] and [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]]. In the following [[Autobot]] celebration, Optimus Prime saw a vision of Alpha Trion and Rodimus Prime as equals within the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] and swore to never question its ways. {{Storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Letters page continuity====
[[Dreadwind (G1)|Dreadwind]] said that the events of "War Dawn" sounded like it happened, though he'd "never heard of this Alpha Trion character but then who am I?" {{storylink|Flashback!|268's Dread Tidings}}

===3H comics===
[[File:DepartureBetrayal-AlphaTrion.jpg|left|upright=1.66|thumb|Alpha Trion was various lions for all of two seconds, in one person's mind.]]
In the distant past, during the Cybertronians' rebellion against their Quintesson oppressors, A-3's mettle was tested in an encounter with a [[Dark Guardian]]. {{storylink|Disclosure}}

During [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]]'s rule of Cybertron, Alpha Trion was seemingly resurrected and/or reformatted as a lion by the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] to guide [[Primal Prime]] and his [[Wreckers|Wrecker]] in much the same way as he aided many previous Autobot leaders. {{storylink|Departure}} It is unclear whether this new form ever existed physically; its only appearance was as a vision in Primal Prime's head. {{storylink|Betrayal}} The ancient Autobot reached out and made contact with Primal Prime's spark, but his messages came through garbled and incomplete. Of the small amount of information he was able to transmit to Primal Prime was the fact that the Wreckers should believe in Primus's vision, and that their creator sometimes worked in mysterious ways... {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}}

[[File:Alphatrionuniverse.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|He said he was reformatted into a [[beast mode]], but he was lyin'.]]
Alpha Trion did not make a physical appearance after this enigmatic reintroduction until [[Unicron]] posed a new threat to the balance of the multiverse. Alpha Trion, though technically still merged with [[Primus]]/[[Vector Sigma]]/Whatever, was again in his original body (but now with a cape!). He/they pulled Cybertron's greatest hero, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]], back from the dead in order to rescue recently abducted Cybertronians from the center of the Chaos Bringer. {{storylink|Abduction}}

Though Primal was at first taken aback by the enormity of the task he had been assigned, Alpha Trion's pontification goaded him on in accepting the mission. When Primal succeeded at this monumental task, {{storylink|Escape (Universe)|Escape}} he confronted the [[Maximal High Council]] with one of his overblown speeches and was thrown in jail. Alpha Trion sent [[Snarl (BM)|Snarl]] to stage a small rescue of his own, and Primal was returned to the center of Cybertron. Here, Alpha Trion presented Primal with a window into the past, present, and future of the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]], from which he could pluck any warrior, whether they be living or dead. Primal chose [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depthcharge]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]], the former of whom rejected Primal's calling. Alpha Trion quieted Primal's disappointment, letting Depthcharge go, expecting him to return of his own accord. To take his place, Alpha Trion pulled [[Omega Prime]] from [[Viron 903.0 Beta|a Viron universe]]. {{storylink|Homecoming (Universe)|Homecoming}}
{{--}}

===Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity===
[[File:Alphatriondw.jpg|left|thumb|Most people kill their prizes before hanging them on their wall. Shockwave is not most people.]]
Eons ago, Alpha Trion kept watch over the Transformers when Primus entered his eternal sleep to hide Cybertron from Unicron. However, a nomadic alien race eventually conquered Cybertron, and Alpha Trion was forced into hiding. Thousands of Transformers were slaughtered, and Alpha Trion was unable to act. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide}} Alpha Trion performed actions that would make him known as the savior of his race. {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}}

Alpha Trion was attached to the supercomputer Vector Sigma, and was its caretaker from the [[Golden Age]] to the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. He was considered the only Transformer capable of accessing all of the computer's functions. In his position, he disagreed with the [[Council of Ancients]]' esoteric mysticism, wishing to make the Transformers' place in the cosmos more known. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #8}} Despite this, he was a secret guiding force behind the Council and its selection of Primes. He was fond of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], both with whom he had a special bond. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

After the [[Great Shutdown]], [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] was awakened. Soon after, he met [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]], who somehow led the [[Decepticon]] to Alpha Trion. Alpha Trion was incapacitated and hung on a wall in Shockwave's laboratory for analysis, to assist Shockwave in his attempt to control Vector Sigma. The ancient Cybertronian constantly foiled his attempts to analyze him; nevertheless, Shockwave swore that the savior of their race would become its "greatest destroyer". {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}} As Shockwave's plans reached fruition, the last remaining "ancient program" for him to decode was Alpha Trion. However, Shockwave's machinations were foiled by his apparent and untimely demise. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}}

Alpha Trion's last days were recorded to be deep within Cybertron, preparing the Transformers and Cybertron for their darkest hour. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[File:Historyofcybertron.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|Trukk... and munky?]]
When [[Serpentor|Serpent O.R.]] downloaded some of [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s memories, he saw Alpha Trion and his role in the [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 1|The Art of War #1}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Megatron Origin issue 3|''Megatron Origin'' #3]]}}

[[File:OriginMyths-ThePrimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]

In the years that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], Alpha Trion emerged as one of the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s, leading one of the [[Thirteen Tribes]] some twelve million years ago. He was well known as a chronicler and record-keeper of Cybertronian history; {{storylink|The Crucible}} though he did not have the same heroic reputation as the other Primes, he was a well-versed historian, librarian, and orator. {{storylink|White Light}} In his youth, he studied some of the mythical [[Artifacts of the Primes|artifacts]] that would come to be wielded by the Primes, such as the ancient [[Enigma of Combination]], {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} and learned as much as he could about the primitive tribes that inhabited prehistoric Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}}

Alpha Trion would join forces with four other Primes: [[Alchemist Prime|Alchemist]], [[Vector Prime|Vector]], [[Solus Prime|Solus]], and [[Nexus Prime]], and together they established a village they called the [[Crystal City]]. As a storyteller and keeper of legends, Trion encouraged the tribes to work together by regaling them with tales of [[Primus]] and the [[Guiding Hand]], believing that the kernels of truth passed down through his tales could inspire others to perform great deeds.

[[File:OriginMyths-AlchemistPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|"Go home Alchemist, you're drunk."]]

Their early efforts were threatened by the advancing armies of the [[Darklands]]; shortly after the Darklanders slaughtered [[Septimus Prime]] and sacked [[Protihex|Protohex]], another Prime, going by the name of "[[Onyx Prime|Onyx]]", arrived to propose an alliance, bringing with him his comrade [[Liege Maximo]] and an army of [[Beast mode|bestial]] warriors. "Onyx" professed scorn for Trion's belief in the Guiding Hand, but Trion spoke to him privately and made him see the inspirational power that his stories possessed. Onyx pressed him to convince the other Primes into allying with him; once united, their forces took to the field against the Darklanders. As the battle raged, events took an unexpected turn when three [[Titan (group)|Titans]] emerged from the depths of the planet. In the impromptu ceasefire, Onyx was able to reach the enemy leader [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] and convince him to lay down arms and agree to a proper truce. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

The other Primes never learned the truth about Onyx Prime: the bestial Prime was an identity of convenience assumed by a time-travelling [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]; using Megatronus as a catspaw, he had deliberately engineered the war between the Darklanders and the Crystal City in order to bring the Primes together under a single banner, one of many historical paradoxes he would engineer using his foreknowledge of Cybertron's long history. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

In the ensuing celebration, Trion soon became wary of his new ally: "Onyx" had begun telling "stories" of his own, thus seeding history with more paradoxes, including the "[[Dark Cybertron (prophecy)|Dark Cybertron]]" prophecy that his younger self would one day study and attempt to bring about. Trion's concerns were echoed by the Darklander warrior [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]], who believed that the Primes would eventually grow drunk on their own superiority and become tyrants. Trion solemnly told Arcee that it would be the job of their followers to keep the Primes in check. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

[[File:OmegasConundrum-Metroplex.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Because he's the wise sage Cybertron deserves, but not the one it needs right now.]]

Determined to see as much of his planet as he could before it all changed, Trion befriended the Titan [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], and the pair set off to explore and chart Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} Over the next two million years, the initial coalition of Primes were joined by five more, and thus united the Primes became the alliance known as the [[Thirteen]], led by [[Prima]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} In the ensuing era of peace, Trion became known as "The Trion" and developed his famed reputation for storytelling. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Other Primes had grown arrogant, however and began spreading rumors that only a Prime could kill another Prime, to ensure their reign would last forever. {{storylink|The Crucible}} None of the twelve Primes ever suspected that "Onyx Prime" had continued to manipulate them, and, as he had once brought them together, planned to tear them apart once more. Indeed, "Onyx" soon realized that he could permanently keep Trion's suspicions at bay simply by spinning one convincing story after another. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-AntillanWar.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.85|"What have we done, Onyx?" "Why, we've simply brought civilization to the very brink of extinction. Gum?"]]
"Onyx" set his plans in motion by encouraging Prima to commission an interstellar mission of goodwill, designed to share the "enlightened" civilization of Cybertron with their neighbors. Alpha Trion joined the voyage as its official record-keeper, and joined by [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] and his [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinels]], the Cybertronian expedition set off for the organic world of [[Antilla]], its resources making it ripe for colonization. When the detachment arrived however, the [[Antillan]]s fought back against the invaders. Over the course of this brief war, "Onyx"—despite Trion's misgivings—announced that this world now belonged to Alpha Trion, the first of Cybertron's thirteen "colonies". When recording these events however, Trion would write that the Antillan mission had been one of peace and that the natives had been the ones who fired first. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Our Finest}}

On returning to Cybertron, "Onyx" continued to secretly sow discord, and manipulated events so that a furious Megatronus would slay [[Solus Prime]] in an attempted coup against Prima. Alpha Trion agreed that Liege Maximo, who had seemingly masterminded the coup that had led to her death, had forfeited his right to live on Cybertron and watched as his fellow Primes imprisoned Liege Maximo aboard [[Vigilem]].

Determined to bring Solus Prime's killer to justice, Alpha Trion joined "Onyx" and Prima aboard Prima's Titan, [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]]. The three Primes tracked Megatronus to the barren world of [[Tsiehshi]], but Trion stayed behind while the other two Primes went to confront Megatronus in a final duel. Only "Onyx Prime" returned, informing the record-keeper that Prima had sacrificed himself to end Megatronus's life. The reality was more complicated, however: "Onyx" had simply let Megatronus kill Prima, then, his usefulness at an end, killed Megatronus. Trion was once more swayed by "Onyx Prime's" well-told tale, and so this account became the "official" version of events that would find its way into the chronicles of Cybertron... and thus, the inspiration for the lie that the time-traveling Shockwave used to cover up the truth. Returning to Cybertron, Trion and the five remaining Primes watched as Emissary interred Prima's remains within his body and left Cybertron, unaware that his systems had been sabotaged by "Onyx". {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheMindBomb-TrionAndGalvatron.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|left]]
With the Primes reduced in number and divided from within, they and their followers soon fell to war with one another in the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]], {{storylink|Heavy}} the outcome Shockwave had been aiming for all along. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Trion was not an active participant in the war, instead hoping to find a way to end the conflict as bloodlessly as possible. When the warrior [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] slaughtered [[Nexus Prime]] and dispelled the rumors that the Primes were immortal, fear for their own safety prompted the last of the Primes to flee Cybertron, one by one, until only Alpha Trion remained. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:TheCrucible AlphaTrionRevealed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]
Determined to bring the war to an end, Alpha Trion approached Galvatron during the [[Battle of Aegiax]] to request his help in bringing peace to Cybertron—promising the bloodthirsty barbarian whatever he wanted in exchange. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}} Trion led Galvatron to the [[Citadel of Light]], former home of [[Prima]] and his tribe, and watched Galvatron and Prima's last follower [[Nova Prime|Nova Major]] defeat the remnants of Onyx Prime's forces. When the battle was won, Alpha Trion introduced himself to Nova, who was not quick to believe Trion's claim to Primehood until Trion pummeled him into submission. Together, the trio made for "Onyx Prime's" castle in [[Kalis]] to verify Trion's belief that the other Primes had disappeared. Their way into the castle was barred by the sole remaining warrior, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox of the Mournsong]], but he was quickly intimidated into letting them pass. Discovering that "Onyx" had indeed vanished, Nova announced his plan to take control of Cybertron and unify its tribes, and Alpha Trion, feeling this was the best course of action for Cybertron's people, gladly stood aside and let Nova assume the title of Prime.

After taking control of Cybertron, Nova directed his attention to decoding the secrets of the Thirteen, beginning with Nexus Prime's Enigma of Combination. Galvatron was the only one of them who ''didn't'' want to uncover the Enigma, and continually insisted that the Enigma was gone, just like its creator. Trion became curious by Galvatron's claims and pointed out that everyone ''except'' Galvatron talked of the Enigma as if it were merely a concept, but Galvatron spoke of it as a physical object. One look in Galvatron's eyes provided Alpha with all the explanation he needed to arrive at the answer. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

Over the next few million years, Alpha Trion was content to let himself fade into the background of Cybertronian life, allowing himself to be "forgotten" after the disastrous fall of the Primes. {{storylink|The Crucible}} When Nova Prime and his crew—which included Galvatron—departed Cybertron six million years ago, Alpha Trion blessed their starship, the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]''. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Following the disappearance of the ''Ark'', memorial lectures were held in honor of Nova, during which Alpha Trion gave a speech about [[Primus]]. {{storylink|Primus: You, Me, and Other Revelations}} Alpha Trion's various compendiums regarding the early histories of Cybertron were of interest to the younger Senator [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], and thus would go on to form the basis for many of "Onyx Prime's" manipulations to the timeline. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:MO3 EOOPAT funeral.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5]]
Nova Prime, thought dead, would eventually be supplanted by [[Nominus Prime]], and, later, [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]. Unaware that Sentinel Prime was a false identity constructed by the ancient [[Titan Master]] [[Infinitus]], Alpha Trion was known to have stood up against "Sentinel Prime's" increasingly fascistic ideals. {{storylink|White Light}} At the request of a [[blacksmith]], Trion bore witness to the birth of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]], agreeing that there was something special about the newborn. {{storylink|Post}} Four million years ago, as [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Decepticon]] uprising took shape, Alpha Trion attended the funerals of [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]] and [[Fastback (G1)|Fastback]]. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}}

Because of Alpha Trion's intimate knowledge of Cybertron's surface, he accompanied Orion Pax and [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] on a mission into the treacherous [[Rust Sea|Rust Spot]] to swap Decepticon prisoners for the captured [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]]. This was merely a ruse to draw out Alpha Trion, who the Decepticons wanted in order to help locate Metroplex. Due to Orion Pax's valiant actions, Alpha Trion and the other Autobots escaped with their lives. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} The Autobots did get something out of Alpha Trion though; confirmation that the Titans were indeed real. {{storylink|The Hunting Party (IDW)|The Hunting Party}}

Once Orion Pax had become Optimus Prime, he broadcast a message to all Cybertronians, asking them to join him in the fight against the Decepticons and beginning the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. Alpha Trion watched this broadcast with interest from the archives of [[Kutanzuule]]. {{storylink|Broadcast}} He soon came in contact with the young Prime to offer him advice and guidance in his early days as Autobot leader. {{storylink|Derelicts}} When Optimus blamed himself for being unable to stop the [[Exodus (event)|Exodus]], Alpha Trion assured him that sometimes a leader's role was to let their followers go and make their own decisions. {{storylink|The Illusion of Control}} Alpha Trion was surprised when Optimus rediscovered the long lost [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], and advised him to accept that the ancient guardian would not easily reintegrate into society. {{storylink|Primacy issue 2|Primacy #2}}

[[File:HelloCruelWorld-AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.7]]
500,000 years ago, Alpha Trion chose to leave Cybertron together with Metroplex, partly to keep the Titan and his technology out of Decepticon hands, but also to investigate [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]'s [[Regenesis]] plan. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} After exploring space for millennia, Alpha Trion came to realize that Shockwave had not seeded his miraculous ores randomly—each had been sent to a planet that Shockwave believed one of the Thirteen had gone after they had fled Cybertron, and the thirteenth planet was the resting place of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:Ironing Out the Details Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|Metal beards are ridiculous! But ''cloth'' beards are super okay.]]
The pair briefly returned to Cybertron in [[1997]]; by this point, the planet had been rendered virtually uninhabitable by war, and so Trion began trying to restore it. Operating out of Metroplex, Trion spent the next decade processing the corrosive elements out of Cybertron's atmosphere, slowly making it habitable again. After 2008, the problem was compounded by a monstrous [[Insecticon swarm]] that had overrun the planet. Requiring the toughest of the tough to obliterate the swarm, Alpha Trion selected [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] to do the job. That Ironhide was across the galaxy on Earth mattered little: Ironhide would eventually die some day, Trion rationalized, and so he built a duplicate body on Cybertron into which he could implant Ironhide's spark and memories once he passed on and returned to the "[[Transformer afterlife|core]]". With Vector Sigma having been essentially erased in the event that devastated Cybertron, this took Alpha Trion years and pushed his skills to their limit, but once Ironhide died on Earth in 2010, the ancient Autobot's grand work was complete, and Ironhide returned to life on Cybertron in the new body constructed for him. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

Ironhide awoke in confusion, his memories incomplete due to damage he had suffered millions of years beforehand that had disrupted his link to the core, and wandered Cybertron's wastes until Alpha Trion dispatched his [[Scamper|page]] to bring the befuddled warrior to Metroplex's city mode. Alpha Trion took umbrage at the fact Ironhide had never heard of his ancient greatness, and revealed his incredible powers over his own electromagnetic aura by using it to control Ironhide's actions when the ornery Autobot started to get a little rough. Ironhide further tested Trion's patience when he ignored his cautions and ventured out to track down the near-dead [[Sunstreaker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sunstreaker]] (even if Sunstreaker ''had'' heard of him). Finally, Trion relented to Ironhide's constant questioning and explained the reason he had brought him back online: to exterminate the swarm. {{storylink|Ironing Out the Details}}

[[File:AnyOldIron IronhidePunchesTrion.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.6|"Oh sorry, I thought you were [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] for a second."]]
While Ironhide took out of most of the swarm in a brutal battle, Trion busied himself repairing Sunstreaker. After Ironhide returned, Trion announced that he and Metroplex were leaving Cybertron for parts unknown while Ironhide mopped up the remaining Insecticons. Infuriated by the old 'bots condescending attitude, Ironhide slugged him one, but Alpha Trion let it slide, putting Ironhide in his place by telling him he was just a small playing piece in a very large game. Before departing, however, Alpha Trion softened, congratulating Ironhide on saving the entire planet. After all, the only other Autobot would could make that claim... was he. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

In 2012, Alpha Trion finally deduced that the Enigma of Combination had landed on [[Earth]]. Hoping to recover it before Shockwave could harness its power for his own ends, {{storylink|The Crucible}} Trion left Metroplex to fend off the next stage of Shockwave's ultimate plan by himself. Trion set course for Earth to retrieve what he called the "holy grail", and was thus unable to turn back and help when his Titan companion was infected with an [[alchemical virus]]. After crossing paths with the ''[[Vis Vitalis]]'', he convinced [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]'s [[Caminus (planet)|Camien]] associates, [[Cityspeaker]] [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and her compatriots [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] and [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]], to use their [[Cityspeaker|cityspeaking]] skills to aid the Titan in his place. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} {{storylink|A 'Bot and Her City}} Alpha Trion also tasked the three with delivering a simple message for Optimus Prime: "Earth." {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} Shockwave saw Alpha Trion in a vision of things that would come to pass during the Dark Cybertron prophecy. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}}

[[File:Full Fathom Five Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|left]]
Alpha Trion made it to Earth shortly before Shockwave enacted the final stage of his plan; unfortunately for him, however, his ship was shot down by the [[Earth Defense Command]], {{storylink|The Crucible}} and both he and his vessel were interred at the EDC's primary headquarters in the [[Marshall Islands|Bikini Atoll]] for study. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} After finally meeting Optimus in person, Windblade passed Trion's message along and Optimus and a group of Autobots travelled to Earth to find him. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}}

A month later, [[Jazz (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jazz]] infiltrated the EDC base and stumbled on him while investigating the EDC's use of Cybertronian tech. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} Knowing he was hooked up to an alarm and that the EDC's "[[mindbomb]]" couldn't have been created from just ''his'' brain, [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] stopped Jazz from rescuing Alpha Trion immediately in order to investigate further. After deactivating the alarms they took Alpha Trion and fled on [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], where a merry Trion's reunion with Optimus Prime was cut short by a coughing fit, prompting [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]] to take him away and have a look at his injuries. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 5: I Dream of Wires|I Dream of Wires}}

[[File:TheCrucible MoonMeeting.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.5]]
Alpha Trion had Optimus Prime take him to the [[Moon (moon)|moon]], away from prying ears, to share with him why Earth was so important. He told the story about how he brought Galvatron and Nova Prime together, shocking and angering Optimus with the fact that he was one of the Thirteen Primes and let Nova Prime's reign happen, before revealing the presence of the Enigma of Combination on Earth. {{storylink|The Crucible}} They subsequently returned to the ''[[Ark-7]]'', where Jetfire found their trip had worsened Alpha Trion's condition and admonished Prime. When Prime then returned to Cybertron for what he claimed were political reasons, Trion poked fun at him until he admitted he also had a personal reason, namely the anniversary of him becoming Prime. {{storylink|Onyx Interface Part One: Signals, Calls, and Marches|Signals, Calls, and Marches}}

[[File:TheNothingMan-alphatrionwithenigmacode.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|left]]
When the ''Ark-7'' came under attack and the Autobots lost control of the ship, Alpha Trion recognized why—its computers had been infected with the source code of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} Joining [[Sideswipe (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sideswipe]] and [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] as they fought their way through the ship's defenses towards its [[Space bridge|spacebridge]], Trion described the Enigma as one of the "metaphors made real" devised by the ancient Primes and that normal Transformers couldn't fight against it. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 1: Aphelion|Aphelion}} They reached their goal only to be greeted by a group of Decepticons who'd arrived through the spacebridge to capture the ship, {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} prompting Sideswipe to hide the still injured Alpha Trion away from harm in a storage compartment. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 4: Perihelion|Perihelion}}

After the Decepticons had crashed the ship onto Earth, Trion and the others were recovered by Optimus Prime's forces. Once they'd relocated, he was shocked to hear that Optimus had started a war with Earth in an attempt to annex it, and wondered what his plan was now. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 1: Once Upon a Time on Earth|Once Upon a Time on Earth}} He was present when Optimus returned after an ill-fated confrontation between [[Aileron]] and the [[President of the United States]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 2: Edge of the Earth|Edge of the Earth}} When the Autobots joined forces with [[Soundwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons against Galvatron, Alpha Trion's status as another Prime distressed Soundwave. He remained at their [[Monument Valley]] base caring for [[Buster (IDW)|Buster]] during the actual attack, but an attack on ''them'' by the humans caused the dog to run off with [[D.0.C.]] {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 4: It's Beginning To And Back Again|It's Beginning To And Back Again}} As the battle raged on, Alpha Trion encouraged Optimus Prime to search within himself for the reason he had chosen this particular valley as their base, which led to Optimus realizing [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]] was hidden beneath the surface and awakening him. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 5: As Above...So Below|As Above...So Below}}

[[File:WhiteLight-trionandinfinitus.jpg|thumb|right]]
Alpha Trion watched Metrotitan transform into [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], the Cybertronian embassy on Earth. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 6: No Fair Fights|No Fair Fights}} After this he sought another Prime-to-Prime talk with Optimus, but Optimus postponed it in favor of having him coordinate the aftermath of the battle with Galvatron's soldiers. {{storylink|The Last Autobot}}

While resting at Autobot City, Alpha Trion was confronted by a diminutive Cybertronian who introduced himself as "[[Infinitus]]", decrying Trion as the weakest of the original [[Thirteen]]. Alpha Trion was confused by Infinitus, but as the interloper pontificated about his plan to wipe Cybertron clean of "vermin" and return it to its [[Golden Age]], Alpha Trion realized that his visitor was none other than the 'bot he had once known as [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]! Sentinel Prime deployed a set of blades from his forearms and pounced on Trion, decapitating him. While Optimus and Soundwave were waylaid, Infinitus used his [[Titan Master]] powers to puppeteer Trion's body, escaping in its spaceship configuration. {{storylink|White Light}} After using it to fetch [[Sovereign]], herald of Onyx Prime and fellow Titan Master, Infinitus passed control of the body on to him. When Infinitus and Sovereign confronted Optimus Prime and Soundwave, Soundwave used Alpha Trion's sword to remove Sovereign, and Trion's head and body were recovered. They were returned to Cybertron and reunited by [[Fixit (G1)|Fixit]], who explained that the old Autobot would survive. {{storylink|White Heat}}

Alpha Trion then got an apartment and spruced it up with all manner of literary texts. Prior to Earth officially joining the Cybertronian [[Council of Worlds]], he was visited by Optimus, Pyra and Starscream and recounted the tale of the unification of the Thirteen and the "first face". Once he was finished, he defended himself to a skeptical Starscream, saying he simply told the story. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

When [[Thundercracker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Thundercracker]] ran into story difficulties in making [[Starscream: The Movie (film)|his film about Starscream]], he sought out Alpha Trion for his views regarding Starscream being labelled as the "Chosen One". Alpha Trion felt that Metrotitan had been spouting random nonsense in his damaged state with Starscream just having been in the right place to take advantage of it. Nonetheless, he gave Thundercracker advice that instead of using his film to spread lies about Starscream, he should instead use the power of stories to present truths that would inspire his audience. {{storylink|Starscream: The Movie (comic)|Starscream: The Movie}}

[[File:AnotherMine OnyxAlphaReunited.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.3|"But enough about me, let's kill ''you!''"]]
After [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] became ruler of Cybertron, Trion met with the [[Mistress of Flame]] who recounted to him an encounter she had with Onyx Prime on Antilla. Alpha Trion had also invited [[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]] to the discussion in the hopes that the highly religious Mistress and the recently atheist Constructicon could each teach the other something. Onyx Prime himself returned to Cybertron that very day with the captive Liege Maximo, much to everyone's apprehension. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Trion joined the subsequent meeting at the [[Spire]], but as tensions mounted between the trio of Primes, the religious colonists, and Soundwave—who refused to let the Primes reassert themselves as leaders—Trion was struck by a devastating epiphany: the 'bot he believed to be "Onyx Prime" was, in fact, Shockwave, who had manipulated him all these years. Before he could warn his allies of "Onyx Prime"'s true intentions, a powerful blast ripped through the Spire and mortally wounded him. Soundwave rushed to his side, but was unable to do anything more than pronounce him dead. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 2: Another Mine|Another Mine}}

When Soundwave sacrificed his life to help defeat [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]], he saw a vision of the many deceased- Alpha Trion included, welcoming him into the [[Transformer afterlife|Afterspark]]. {{storylink|Ceremony}} As Optimus Prime himself died, he remembered all the major moments of his life and pondered if Trion being present at his forging was proof that he'd been [[The Arisen]]. {{storylink|Post}}

====Vision of the future====
In a vision of the future seen by Ironhide and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] during the reformatting of Cybertron, Alpha Trion lived on a prosperous [[Gorlam Prime]] fifteen million years from now, telling young Transformers the history of their race and their struggles. His closest friend at this time was an aged Ironhide, who Alpha frequently comforted as Ironhide struggled to find his place in the new civilization. {{storylink|Pax Cybertronia (issue)|Pax Cybertronia}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
[[Preditron]] remembered Alpha Trion as an inspirational figure, one who exemplified the best qualities of the Autobots. {{storylink|The Predacon Manifesto}}

[[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] knew the books of Alpha Trion to hold that countless Cybertrons existed in the multiverse. {{storylink|Alone Together: Prologue}}

While interacting with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]], [[Overshoot]] witnessed flashes of Cybertron's long history, including Alpha Trion wielding his [[Quill]]. {{storylink|Cultural Appropriation}}

===''Transformers vs. G.I. Joe''===
[[File:Everybody Hates Metroplex - Vision of Alpha Trion passing the Matrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
As he lay dying, Alpha Trion passed the Matrix of Leadership down to Optimus Prime, an event that would later be plucked from Prime's memories and scrutinized during his [[Quintesson]] trial. {{storylink|Everybody Hates Metroplex}} His spirit passed into the Matrix, where it would later haunt [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] after he'd stolen the artifact. {{storylink|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe issue 12|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe #12}} The spirits of Alpha Trion and other past Matrix holders manifested again when Optimus Prime took back the Matrix. {{storylink|The War Never Ends}}

{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
When questioned if Alpha Trion was [[Solomus]], [[Vector Prime]] just said that his brethren went by many faces and names. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/01}}

===''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material===
[[File:PowerOfTheTitanMasters-alphatrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was partnered with the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], who granted him the power of Primus himself. {{storylink|#Generations|''Titans Return'' Sovereign/Alpha Trion toy bio}} On the planet [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Eukaris]], Alpha Trion and [[Grimlock (G1)|Clobber]] discovered an ancient artifact linked to the [[Titan (group)|Titan]]s and Titan Masters. They were attacked by a contingent of Decepticons intent on ambushing the two Autobots and stealing the artifact for themselves, but [[Apeface]] managed to blow their cover and give the Autobots time to fight back. {{storylink|Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters}}

Alpha Trion's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Trion's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|#Power of the Primes|''Power of the Primes'' Landmine / Alpha Trion online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Alpha Trion's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}
{{--}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
[[File:StormHorizonPart2-Soundblaster.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]

A stained-glass mural of Alpha Trion existed next to other members in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|The Cracks Beneath Your Feet Part Five}} Alpha Trion was active in the days before the [[War of the Threefold Spark]], and attempted to teach his mentee [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] about sympathy and compassion. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}} Trion bore witness to the war that followed, his spark weeping for those that were extinguished.

When the [[Tether]] had fallen, Alpha Trion had left Cybertron, hunting down ancient Cybertronian artefacts across the galaxy. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} Trion's search led him to the [[Decimus Sector]]. Knowing that [[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]]'s crew had mapped the [[Black Sphere]] region, he bargained for usage of a [[Kworian]] starship, eventually finding himself in [[Soundblaster (G1)|Soundblaster]]'s company. Though Trion had left a series of signal markers, their proximity to the [[black hole]] gave an exaggerated account of how long he'd been gone, sending Ultra Magnus on a search for him. Via [[hologram]], Trion projected himself to his mentee on the planet [[Obsidar]] just as Soundblaster's vessel came under attack from a fleet of starships. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}}

Obsessed with his profits, Soundblaster refused to let Alpha Trion go free, forcing Ultra Magnus to board the ship and rescue his mentor. With Trion noting that the Kworians were unlikely to stand down, the two left the ship to be destroyed by the black hole and retreated to the ''[[Fist of Iacon]]''. Setting course for home, the crew discovered that Megatron had overthrown the [[Senate]] but Alpha Trion reassured everyone that with faith in their cause and courage, they would see through this crisis and emerge stronger. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 3}}

{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Ben Jurand]] (English), [[Banjō Ginga]] (Japanese)|[[Dario de Castro]] (Portuguese), [[Mathieu Buscatto]] (French), [[Samuel Zekarias]] (German), [[Jesús Carrasco]] (Castilian Spanish), [[José Luis Orozco]] (Latin-American Spanish)}}
[[File:WFC-Earthrise-Ep5-Alpha-Trion-threatens-Sky-Lynx.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]

In Cybertron's past, Alpha Trion led the planet into a rebellion against its [[Quintesson|oppressors]], and mentored [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] {{storylink|Siege episode 1}} as his students to bring change and good to Cybertron. Alpha Trion also protected the [[Matrix of Leadership]], waiting for one worthy enough to be chosen. The arrogant [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] time and time again tried to claim the talisman until Alpha Trion used the [[Forge of Solus Prime|Staff of Solus]] to banish the draconian to the [[Dead Universe]]. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} At some point, Alpha Trion studied the mystical [[AllSpark]], proving its existence, {{storylink|Siege episode 2}} and knew where it was located. {{storylink|Siege episode 4}}

As the Autobots and Decepticons diverged and Megatron started his own revolution, the former student murdered Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}} The Matrix of Leadership chose Optimus Prime as its next bearer and Magnus inherited the sum total of Alpha Trion's knowledge in the form of the [[Alpha Trion Protocols]]. Trion, greatly missed by many, was awarded a memorial in the mass-grave at [[Tarn-Hauser Gate]]. When Megatron murdered Ultra Magnus, the Alpha Trion Protocols chose the scavenger [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. He spoke to a simulacrum of Alpha Trion that persisted within the Protocols, {{storylink|Siege episode 4}} but it was destroyed when [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] engineered a virus against it. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}}

While in the Dead Universe, both Optimus and Megatron looked back to when Alpha Trion had mentored them and Ultra Magnus, but the Decepticon leader only let it fuel his hatred. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} When the Autobots and [[Maximal]]s searched for the AllSpark on Earth, the artifact produced an illusion of Alpha Trion to Optimus Prime, part of its defense mechanism to lead would-be threats astray. Optimus followed the projection until it led him to a mortally wounded [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and the Matrix of Leadership. {{storylink|Kingdom episode 3}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Go! Go!''===
{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Go! Go! issue 42}}}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:AlphaTrionG1-MegatronOriginLegends.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest Transformers alive. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

Sentinel Prime sent Alpha Trion out to investigate an uprising of working-class robots. Alpha Trion uncovered that Senator Ratbat has shut down a mine, which catapulted into motion the Decepticon movement. He reported his findings to Sentinel Prime, and Ratbat was forced to flee for his life. {{storylink|Megatron Origins}}

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-GoldenAgeLegends.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Alpha Trion, alongside Nightbeat and Orion Pax, was to escort the Decepticons Rack'n'Ruin in a prisoner exchange with the Decepticons. Though they encountered [[Slicer (group)|Slicers]] en route, the group eventually met up with Bludgeon. But instead of the agreed upon exchange, Bludgeon and the Decepticons ambushed the Autobots, leading to Alpha Trion's capture. He was rescued and returned to Zeta Prime's protective custody thanks to Nightbeat and Orion Pax's efforts. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

When Orion Pax and Ariel were seriously injured by the Decepticons, the Aerialbots took the pair to Trion, who rebuilt them into [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He also aided the Aerialbots in returning to their own time through the [[Chronogon]] portal. {{storylink|Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age}}
{{--}}

===''Angry Birds Transformers''===
{{main|Mighty Eagle#As Alpha Trion}}
Alpha Trion appears as a character unlockable in Challenge Events. He is portrayed by Mighty Eagle. {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}

===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest living Cybertronians. While not technically an Autobot, he happily provided them with advice and lore from Cybertron's prehistoric past. {{storylink|Transformers Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook|Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|right|150px|]]
Alpha Trion was one of the original Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}

Alpha Trion has said he had not borne arms for many centuries. {{Storylink|The Nemesis (Earth Wars)|The Nemesis}}

[[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]] had found evidence of recent time travel and told the other Autobots. Prowl suspected it was Alpha Trion and the other [[Council of Autobot Elders|Autobot Elders]] who had traveled to the past. Perceptor agreed, knowing that since Alpha Trion was a High Councillor, he would have direct access to Vector Sigma. Windblade feared this could lead to more Time Wars. {{Storylink|Lost In Time}}

{{Charstubgames|{{Storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}

==Toys==
===''Expanded Universe''===
[[File:Alphalion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|"im not ownable! im not ownable!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a lion]]
:A redeco of ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' Deluxe Class [[Snarl (BM)#Toys|Snarl]] was planned as Alpha Trion for the [[BotCon|OTFCC]] ''[[Transformers: The Wreckers|Wreckers]]'' storyline, but this concept never made it past the paint mock-up stage.

:A redecoed [[Lio Convoy#Beast Wars|Lio Convoy]] was also considered by [[3H Productions|3H]] for Alpha Trion around the same time, and it was sort of this version that briefly appeared in the comic book ([[#3H comics|see above]]). Though the toy [[Prototype|mock-up]] used Snarl, 3H hoped they could finagle the use of the Lio Convoy mold. The wireframe appearance of "Alpha Lion" in [[Departure|''The Wreckers'' #1]] used Lio Convoy's body, but Snarl's head, hopefully allowing 3H to fudge either way, should they come to a decision. They didn't!

::*''[http://www.transformertoys.co.uk/resources/review/universe/alpha+trion/3368 Image gallery of the Alpha Trion Snarl redeco purchased from the Hartmans]''

{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-AlphaTrion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm not evil! Honest!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Alpha Trion / Weirdwolf''' (Souvenir two-pack, 2007)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, missile, Cyber Key

: The first actual toy of Alpha Trion (well, sorta, we'll get to that in a moment) is a [[retool]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' Voyager Class [[Vector Prime#Cybertron|Vector Prime]], [[redeco]]ed in purple, white, and red, plus a new head designed by [[Dan Khanna]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Here's some Transformers Legends Alpha Trion card art I pencilled for the game. ( colors by Volta studios ) They based this off the Botcon 2007 toy. ( where I designed a new head for the Vector Prime mold.) https://t.co/hfDwLjQHlc|link=https://twitter.com/DantheArtguy/status/1326732569140977669|name=DantheArtguy|site=Twitter|year=2020|month=11|day=12|(defunct=)}}</ref> He transforms into a large Cybertronian space cruiser with "solar panel" wings. His nosecone has a spring-loaded missile launcher at the tip. Inserting his [[Cyber Key]] (painted gold to resemble the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]) does not activate any sounds, unlike Vector Prime's toy. Alpha Trion has the more flexible translucent plastic parts ([[for safety reasons]]) of the [[Hasbro]] version of the mold. His starship mode also has a socket to snugly fit his pack-in partner [[Beta Maxx (RID)#Toys|Beta Maxx]].

: Released under the ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' banner, he was only available in a bagged "souvenir set" with Beta Maxx and [[Weirdwolf (G1)#Timelines|Weirdwolf]] at [[BotCon 2007]], limited to 1400 pieces.

: While this figure's design obviously derives from depictions of Generation 1 Alpha Trion, the accompanying profile card ''very vaguely'' describes the [[Alpha Trion (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' incarnation of Alpha Trion]]. And roughly a year after its release, the ''Timelines'' fiction made the big reveal that yes, this was the villainous incarnation. For many years there was dispute as to whose page this toy should go on according to the wiki's classification system, but in 2013, this toy appeared in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Legends]]'' mobile game event "[[Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age]]", and thus this toy resumed having an entry on this page.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/BCAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Generations'' (Japan)===
[[File:TFGenerations2014 Rejected AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|Denied.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{bp-a1|'''Alpha Trin''' (Deluxe, <strike>[[2015]]</strike>)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Presumably 2 handguns

: A mock-up of a Japanese "Alpha Trin" toy in the form of a ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Deluxe Class [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Generations|Scourge]] redeco was shown in ''[[Transformers Generations 2014 Volume 1]]'' as one of ten potential exclusives for Vol. 2. In the [[Fan polls#Generations Magazine Exclusive Character Popularity Vote|fan poll]] held to determine which of the ten would be produced, Alpha Trion claimed 28.9% of the votes but ultimately came second place under [[Goshooter#Generations (Japan)|Goshooter]].<ref>[http://millionhero.sblo.jp/article/101898683.html Poll results at Hero-X]</ref> The accompanying text notes that he would have come with a Vector Sigma accessory, presumably to be a golden redeco of [[Eggbot (BW)|''Beast Wars'' Eggbot]] as seen in the volume's manga story, "[[Train Wars]]".
{{GenerationsScourgeMold}}
{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionKreon.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2014)}}</ul>
:*''Collection'': '''4'''
:*''Bag number'': '''***** 33'''
:*''Accessories'': Stand brick, buildable sword/spear-thing
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of the fourth Collection of [[blindpacking|blind-bagged]] [[Kreon]] [[Micro-Changer]]s, ''[[Kre-O]]'' Alpha Trion can be rebuilt from a humanoid to a starship seemingly based on the [[BotCon 2007]] Alpha Trion toy (above). His vehicle-mode bits are rebuilt into a massive spear/sword/thing weapon for robot mode. His jet mode is the only Micro-Changer to fully remove the Kreon's arms in alternate mode.

:He uses the [[Jazz (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Jazz]] helmet... which covers his eyes when pushed all the way down on the noggin.

: This Collection was passed by most larger brick-and-mortar stores, appearing at [[Walgreens]] drug stores first and largely being relegated to similar outlets. Later releases of this wave lost the individual bag codes, meaning you either felt parts through the bag or buy blind.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Autobot/Kre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on ''Kre-O'' Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionClass85.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|There's always that one old guy who hangs out at school long after he graduated...]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Kreon Class of 1985''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)}}</ul>
:*''Set number'': '''B5152'''
:*''Voted'': 800th Year Senior
:*''Accessories'': Longsword

: This version of Kreon Alpha Trion has more intricate, cartoon-accurate detailing, and uses the ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (franchise)|Age of Extinction]]'' [[Megatron (Movie)/toys#Kre-O|Galvatron]] helmet. He also comes with the longsword accessory from the ''Kre-O Dungeons & Dragons'' series for... some reason.

: He also uses the updated 2015-style Kreon body, making almost all of his parts incompatible with previous years' Kreons.

: He was only available in the "[[Kreon Class of '85]]" 30-Kreon box set, a [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2015 [[exclusive]], also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] following the convention.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Autobot/SDCCKre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Class of '85 Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Legends''===
[[File:Legendstoy-LG14-Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|So I'm basically Optimus Prime's brother ''and'' father figure?]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Ultra Magnus''' (Leader, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number'': '''LG-14'''
:*''Release date'': [[September 9]], 2015

: The ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' release of ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Leader Class [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#Generations|Ultra Magnus]] includes a small Alpha Trion figure, which is a redeco of the [[Minimus Ambus#Generations|Minimus Ambus]] figure (as Minimus does not appear in any Japanese-original fiction). He transforms into a [[Popular Cybertronian vehicle alternate modes#Hovercar|Cybertronian hovercar]], which can tab onto three grooves on the lower level of Magnus's trailer. In robot mode, Alpha Trion can sit inside Ultra Magnus's robot mode torso, "wearing" the Magnus head like a helmet.
{{-}}

===''Titans Return''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Titans-Return-Voyager-Alpha-Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Destined to be repurposed as [[Cheetor (BW)#Wings Universe|Alpha Trizer]].]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Autobot Sovereign & Alpha Trion''' (Voyager Class, 2016)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, [[Sovereign#Generations|Sovereign]] Titan Master, Gun
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)|[[Emiliano Santalucia]] (concept artist), [[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

:''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' Alpha Trion transforms from a robot to lion (in homage to his cancelled [[BotCon 2001]] toy) to spaceship. His head transforms into the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], although his neck socket is compatible with any other Titan Master figure. Both his alternate modes are references to Alpha Trion's previous BotCon toys. He comes with a gun that Sovereign can ride in spaceship mode. As with other ''Titans Return'' Voyager figures, pressing in his chest crystal makes his head adornments spring up to "bulk up" his head. In Canada and Australia, Alpha Trion along with his wavemate [[Astrotrain (G1)/toys#Titans Return|Astrotrain]] were prominent shelfwarmers, while finding Alpha Trion anywhere in the US was a great deal more difficult.

: The Hasbro Asia exclusive giveaway sticker sheet can be used to enhance the figure's details.<ref>https://news.tfw2005.com/2016/09/23/hasbro-asia-titans-return-stickers-wave-2-325179</ref>

: This toy was [[Repurposing|repurposed]] as a body for ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Alpha Trion (SG)|Alpha Trion]]. This mold was retooled into ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' [[Lio Convoy#Legends|Leo Prime]] and ''extensively'' retooled into ''Titans Return'' [[Broadside (G1)#Titans Return|Broadside]] and [[Tidal Wave (G1)#Titans Return|Tidal Wave]]. The sword was redecoed into ''Legends'' [[Magna Convoy]]'s [[Matrix Sword]] and ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Nemesis Prime]]'s Ancient Sword.
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Prime-Master-Alpha-Trion-with-Landmine.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|''Legends'', ''Titans Return'', ''Power of the Primes''. The trilogy is complete!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Prime Master, [[2018]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number:'' '''PP-32'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[October 27]], 2018
:*''Accessories:'' Landmine decoy armor, cannon
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Alpha Trion is a [[Prime Master]] with [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] decoy armor, visually based on the original [[Pretender]]'s shell. Alpha Trion/Landmine is a [[retool]] of [[Vector Prime#Power of the Primes|Vector Prime]]/[[Metalhawk (G1)#Power of the Primes|Metalhawk]], with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil and decoy armor front.

:This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The decoy armor has a weapon piece which can fold out to create a weapon mode, or detach and be held in the armor's 3 mm-compatible hand. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside the decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug onto any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the [[Scepter of Sparks]]. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

:Quality control on the Landmine armor varies: many units' arm holes are slightly too small, warping the connector joints in-package and making the arms pop off when posing. Copies with normal-sized holes can be identified by viewing the package sideways to see whether the joints are warped. There have also been some reports of copies with just one flawed arm.
{{-}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:Legacy-A-Hero-Is-Born-Alpha-Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"Please, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#HasbroPulse|my son]], he is very sick..."]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''A Hero is Born''' (2-pack, 2022) }}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Rifle, [[Vector Sigma#Legacy|Vector Sigma]], [[Key to Vector Sigma#Legacy|Key to Vector Sigma]], stand
{{toydesigner|[[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takio Ejima]] and [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Lenny Panzica]] (initial concept)}}<ref>[https://youtu.be/vuZHDR3ZBd8 Transformers Panel] at [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022]] Day 1 on the [[Hasbro Pulse]] YouTube channel.</ref>

: Revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2022, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy]]'' Alpha Trion is a hefty [[retool]] of ''[[Studio Series]]'' [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Studio Series|Scourge]], transforming into a Cybertronian hovercraft in 21 steps. This release uses new "wing" pieces in robot mode to resemble his cape from the original animation model; unfortunately, due to clearance issues with his new chest, those pieces do not fold up neatly into the vehicle mode undercarriage, so they just kind of sit there awkwardly and make him tilt forward when placed on a flat surface. Alpha Trion also utilizes the [[5 mm post]]-compatible open-palm hands from ''both'' Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)#Studio Series|Sweep]] redeco/retool, rather than having either of those molds' asymmetrical open/closed hand arrangements.

: Alpha Trion was only available in the "A Hero Is Born" two-pack with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Legacy|Orion Pax]], as well as a Vector Sigma accessory and the Key to Vector Sigma. The set went up for pre-order during [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022|Pulse Con 2022]], and began appearing at stores in Hong Kong shortly afterward.

: [[Taiwan]]ese fans who supported the [[Hasbro Pulse|HasLab]] [[Star Saber (G1)#Legacy|Victory Saber]] project ended up getting the "A Hero Is Born" set instead (along with a full refund) after their Victory Sabers were severely water damaged during shipment and could not be delivered. No, this set is nowhere near as cool. Sorry?<ref>{{citesocial|quote=People in Taiwan that preordered Haslab Victory Saber through Hasbro TW is getting their preorders cancelled because their batch had too much water damage during transport to be rendered acceptable. They're getting a full refund and a free Alpha Trion set to compensate. (2022) https://t.co/h2A26ZDcS0|link=https://twitter.com/TF_Moments/status/1570857553503948800/photo/1|name=Crazy ass moments in Transformers History|site=Twitter|year=2022|month=09|day=16|(defunct=)}}</ref>
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|You better believe people were excited for this in 2002.]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2002)
**''Act'': '''8'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

: The first "toy" of Alpha Trion ever made, this three-inch-tall [[plastic|PVC]] figurine was available in "Act 8" of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' line. Like all the figures in the wave, it was available as both a standard full-color figure and a metallic-silver "pewter" version, one of each of which was available in a standard case of twelve [[blindpacking|blindpacked]] figures.

: The pewter version of the figure has a potential problem with connector peg breakage, due to said pegs often getting a layer of pewter paint before being forced into a socket, leading to sticking and tearing. Care should be used when moving or removing the arms; shaving down the socket interior with a thin hobby knife is usually sufficient to fix the issue.

: Additionally, the pewter version of Alpha Trion came packaged with the left leg of the [[Scorponok (G1)#Super Collection Figure|Scorponok]] collectible "build-a-figure".

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/AlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on ''Super Collection Figure'' Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/PewterAlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on pewter Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''EX Gōkin''===
[[File:EX Gokin Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|You'd be scolding young 'bots too if you had a pole in your aft...]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2014)
**''Accessories:'' Two fists, two open hands, two gripping hands, right pointing hand, A-3 head, two A-3 shoulders, display stand

:Produced by [[Art Storm]] as part of their ''[[EX Gōkin]]'' line, this Alpha Trion is a 6-inch tall posable figure based on his cartoon [[character model]]. He comes with a plethora of extra hands and has an articulated cape that splits in two pieces for easier posing. Alpha Trion can (sort of) be turned into his younger self, A-3, by use of an alternate head based on his appearance in "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and two smaller, spike-less shoulderpads.

::*''[http://artstorm.co.jp/exgokin_transformersseries_alphatrion.html More information on ''EX Gōkin'' Alpha Trin at Art Storm's official site]''
{{--}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W3AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage''' (2019)
**'''Wave 3: War for Cybertron: Siege I'''
**''Rarity: '''''RT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T01/T48'''
**''Stars: ''11

: Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage is one of forty-eight double-sided character cards available in Wave 3 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], War for Cybertron: Siege I.
{{--}}

===''ReAction''===
*'''Alpha Trion''' (2020)

: Released in the second wave of [[Super7]]'s line of multi-property 3.75-inch "retro" action figures, ''[[ReAction]]'' Alpha Trion is a non-converting 3 3/4-inch action figure based on his appearance in the original cartoon, with 5 points of articulation (swivel neck, shoulders, hips) and holes in his feet for use with some variety of stand. Unlike most releases in this line, he lacks an accessory (but both of his hands are open to enable him to hold one), but he does have a thin vinyl cape which is not removable (at least, not without breaking it).

: As with all releases in the ''ReAction'' toyline, Alpha Trion comes packaged on a small cardback that emulates the nostalgic packaging style of [[Kenner]]'s ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' action figures from the late 1970s to early '80s.

{{-}}

===''Transformers Character Card''===
[[File:Transformers Character Card Matrix and Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1|thumb]]
*'''Alpha Trin & Convoy Set''' ([[April 22]], [[2023]])
**''ID number:'' '''49 & 50'''

:Released as part of the seventh wave of the [[e-HOBBY]] exclusive ''[[Transformers Character Card]]'' series, this pair of holographic trading cards depict super-deformed art of "Alpha Trin" and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] touting the [[Matrix of Leadership]] along with [[bio|character profiles]] and [[Tech Spec|tech specs]].
::*''[[Source:Transformers Character Card#49|Translation of Alpha Trion's Transformers Character Card]]''
{{-}}

===Jada Toys===
*'''Transformers Series 3 18-pack''' (4 cm Die Cast Figure Multipack, 2023)
:Released by [[Jada Toys]], ''Nano Metalfigs'' Alpha Trion is an incredibly small die-cast figurine molded doing an action pose. He has a little base attached to his feet for balancing reasons.

:He comes in an impressive multipack with [[Jada Toys#Nano Metalfigs|seventeen other figurines]].

{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:Alpha_Trion_through_the_epochs.jpg|thumb|Once you go white, you'll never, er... be right?]]
* Alpha Trion is one of the very few Cybertronians to show signs of aging and [[Facial hair|hair growth]].
* According to a timeline in the January 1987 issue of ''[[Comic Bom Bom]]'', A-3 was the first successful robot by Vector Sigma, [[A-1 (G1)|A-1]] and [[A-2]] being failures. However, the presence of Cybertronians within the Matrix of Leadership older than Alpha Trion (as seen in "[[The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2|The Return of Optimus Prime]]") makes the actual [[canon]]icity of this questionable.
* Alpha Trion may be named after the {{w|Triple-Alpha Process}}, the method through which carbon is created, which in turn is the reason (human) life came to be. Given that Alpha Trion essentially "created" Optimus Prime, who in turn formed the Autobots, this is actually quite fitting.
* Alpha Trion had a hover-craft [[alternate mode]] designed for his appearance in ''[[The Transformers: Ironhide]]'', but ultimately didn't end up transforming in that mini-series. The vehicle mode was first revealed in the trade paperback's extras, and would eventually be used in-continuity as part of a flashback sequence in "[[Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb]]" and in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]]'' episode "[[Megatron Origins]]".

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Alpha Trin''' (アルファートリン ''Arufā Torin''), '''Alpha Trion''' (アルファトライオン ''Arufa Toraion'')
*''Hebrew:'' '''Alpha Trion''' (אלפא טריון, "Alpha Trion")
*''Hungarian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Indonesian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Alpha Tellion''' (Taiwan, 阿法特利昂 ''Āfǎ Tèlìáng''), '''Tài Shīfù''' (China, 钛师傅, "Master Titanium")

==Gallery==
<gallery>
File:ImAlphaTrionsHovercraftMode.jpg|IDW ''Ironhide'' unused alternate mode concept art
File:TR-Alpha Trion-packaging art.jpg|Hasbro ''Titans Return'' packaging art
File:EW-skin-Alpha Trion-Ghost.jpg|''Earth Wars'' ghost skin
</gallery>

==References==
{{Reflist}}

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Beast Machines Autobots]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Autobots]]
[[Category:Ghosts]]
[[Category:Go! Go! Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Kre-O Autobots]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Legacy Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Mini-Cons]]
[[Category:Prime Masters]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Titans Return Autobots]]
[[Category:Transformers Character Card]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game Autobots]]
[[Category:Triple Changers]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege characters]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Autobots]]

File:BotsofScience-Motormaster.jpg

2024-12-17T20:08:19Z

TFEarthConquest: Motor Master didn't die, so the description was outdated.

[[The Motor Master|Motormaster]] fights in a battle he almost wouldn't survive. From "[[Bots of Science]]," illustrated by [[Boo]] and [[Liam Shalloo]].

{{bookinterior|source=[[Bots of Science]]}}

[[Category: Images by Boo]]
[[Category: Images by Liam Shalloo]]

Pit (BW)

2024-12-16T17:50:28Z

TFEarthConquest: Added Depth Charge's mention to Rampage here. Probably his most famous line.

{{disambig3|Pit}}
The '''Pit''', also known as the '''Inferno''', is a place referred to by Transformers in their exclamations.

==Fiction==
===''Beast Wars'' cartoon continuity===
====''Timelines''====
The Pit was a facility that granted Transformers life, and the only thing along with the [[Matrix (facility)|Matrix]] facility that could do so. {{storylink|The Razor's Edge}}

====2006 IDW ''Beast Wars'' continuity====
The Pit facility was responsible for uniting Predacon [[spark]]s with the protoforms created there. Many Predacons believed their sparks returned to the Pit upon death to be reborn in a new body. {{storylink|Transformers: Beast Wars Sourcebook|Beast Wars Sourcebook}}

One of the tales told about [[Ram Horn]] is that's he's from the Pit, and not the facility but the ''other'' one, and that he climbed out with a fistful of damned sparks.{{Storylink|#Combiner Wars|BotCon 2016 General Ramhorn profile}} Certainly, Ram Horn refers to having been in the Pit (where he claims time worked differently) when in conversation with his fellow councillors. {{storylink|Dawn of the Predacus}}

====''Beast Wars'' cartoon====
Depth Charge told Rampage to take a shard of energon through his spark and to the Pit. {{storylink|Nemesis Part 1}}

===2001 ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon===
The Pit was apparently a place within the ''[[Megastar]]'' used for corporal punishment, as [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] sentenced [[Gas Skunk]] and [[Dark Scream]] to the Pit after [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] had placed the blame for the Predacons' most recent failure on the two of them. This made Gas Skunk and Dark Scream extremely fearful of the painful experience they were likely about to endure. {{storylink|Sideburn's Obsession}}

When Sky-Byte gave in to Side Burn's demand to do shark tricks for a second time, Sky-Byte swore "By the Pit!" {{storylink|The Fish Test}}

===''Wings Universe''===
[[Bishop (Autobot)|Bishop]] swore by the Pit when he witnessed the wake of [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]]'s attack. {{storylink|Around Cybertron issue 14|Around Cybertron #14}}

[[Tornado]] made numerous references to the Pit in his log entries. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur}}

===''Prime'' cartoon===
Upon being informed of [[Skyquake (Prime)|Skyquake]]'s passing, [[Dreadwing (Prime)|Dreadwing]] swore by the Pit as he promised vengeance on the Autobots. {{storylink|Loose Cannons}} A [[Vehicon (Prime)|Vehicon]] derisively referred to the [[Insecticon (WFC)|Insecticons]] as "Pit-bound scavengers," sparking a brawl between the two groups. {{storylink|Hurt}}

===''Classics''===
When blasting [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] into a literal pit, [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]] told him to say hello to the Pit. {{Storylink|Shattered Paths}}

===''Animated'' cartoon continuity===
Kup referred to "the Pit-damned [[The Fallen|Fallen]]" while describing the flames on [[Rodimus Prime (Animated)|Rodimus]]'s chest. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
The Inferno was the hellish counterpart to the [[Transformer afterlife|Afterspark]] in some forms of Cybertronian belief. [[Skids (G1)|Skids]] believed in the Inferno, among other myths, and was subtly mocked by [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]] for it. {{Storylink|Speak, Memory! (Part 2)}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
When saving the Autobots on [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|another universe]]'s [[Earth]], [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depth Charge]] told them to "get the Pit out of here". {{storylink|Shattered Expectations (BWSG)|Shattered Expectations}} He would mention it again when explaining the situation to the Autobots. {{Storylink|Shattered Paths}}

[[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]], when he was drawn into the virtual reality of [[Metascan Omega]], thought he had gone into the Pit. {{storylink|Intersectionality}}

[[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] approvingly exclaimed by the Inferno when meeting [[Inferno (BW)|Formikon]]. {{storylink|Not All Megatrons}}

===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===
[[Ruckus (G1)|Ruckus]] swore by the Pit. {{storylink|History}}

==Behind the scenes==
While outlining the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|''Beast Wars'' cartoon]], [[Bob Forward]] and [[Larry DiTillio]] created the made-up curse "By the Inferno" so the bad guys could swear. This was changed to "By the Pit" to avoid confusion when a Predacon named [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] was added to the cast. Having made the [[Transformer afterlife|Matrix dimension]] an analogue to Heaven, they made the Inferno/Pit their Hell.

The ''Beast Wars'' [[Production bible|series bible]] included two facilities that created protoforms, the Matrix for the Maximals and the Pit for the Predacons<ref>''[[Beast Wars Universe]]''</ref> These were never mentioned in the series, but subsequent material written more than a decade after the cartoon ended would establish that those places existed.

==See also==
*[[Matrix (facility)|Matrix]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Animated locations]]
[[Category:Beast Wars locations]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising locations]]
[[Category:Classics locations]]
[[Category:Curses]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) locations]]
[[Category:Prime locations]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) locations]]
[[Category:Wings Universe locations]]

Megatron (disambiguation)

2024-12-16T03:24:29Z

TFEarthConquest: Undo revision 1804148 by Freakertron (talk) He's already in the "Not to be Confused With" section

Across the [[multiverse]], the name '''Megatron''' invokes fear and terror, exuding raw power with an unslakable thirst for more. A warlord intent on domination, not just of their homeworld but all worlds... and for some, all of ''existence''.

Some versions of Megatron are known as '''D-16''' or '''Megatronus''' before taking their more infamous name and some [[Reformatting|take on]] [[New body|new bodies]] and change their name to '''[[Galvatron (disambiguation)|Galvatron]]''' in the process.

{{bigquote|I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was and is yet to come... and you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you!|The [[Covenant of Primus]]|"[[Nemesis Part 2]]"}}

==Major Megatrons==
<center><gallery widths="150px" heights="200px">
File:Megatronguido.jpg|[[Megatron (G1)|"Generation 1" Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel]] • [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cartoon]] • [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|IDW (2005)]] • [[Megatron (G1)/toys|Toys]] • [[Megatron (G1)/Generations toys|Toys (Generations)]] • [[Megatron (G1)/merchandise|Merchandise]]''
File:MegatronBWsourcebook.jpg|[[Megatron (BW)|"Beast Era" Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Cartoon]] • [[Megatron (BW)/toys|Toys]]''
File:RIDMegatronGrippy.jpg|[[Megatron (RID)|''Robots in Disguise'' (2001) Megatron]]
File:MicronDensetsuMegatronBoxArt.jpg|[[Megatron (Armada)|"Unicron Trilogy" Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Cartoon]] • [[Megatron (Armada)/toys|Toys]]'' • ''[[Megatron (Armada)/merchandise|Merchandise]]''
File:MovieMegatronStock.jpg|[[Megatron (Movie)|"Movie series" Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron (Movie)/games|Games]] • [[Megatron (Movie)/toys|Toys]] • [[Megatron (Movie)/merchandise|Merchandise]]''
File:Megatronanimated.jpg|[[Megatron (Animated)|''Animated'' Megatron]]
File:Megatron-Prime-stock-render.jpg|[[Megatron (WFC)|"Aligned" Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron (WFC)/toys|Toys]]''
File:CyberverseMegatron.jpg| [[Megatron (Cyberverse)|''Cyberverse'' Megatron]] <hr>''[[Megatron X (Cyberverse)|"X"]]''
File:Megatron-earthspark-stock.jpg|[[Megatron (ES)|''EarthSpark'' Megatron]]
File:Megatron (One).jpg|[[Megatron (One)|''One'' Megatron]]
</gallery></center>

==Full list of Megatrons==
{{disamb|y=[[1984]]|[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], leader and sometimes founder of the [[Decepticon]]s from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].}}
**For this character in [[Marvel Comics continuity]], see [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity]].
**For this character in [[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]], see [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity]].
**For this character in [[2005 IDW continuity]], see [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity]].
**For toys of this character see [[Megatron (G1)/toys]].
**For merchandise of this character see [[Megatron (G1)/merchandise]].
{{disamb|y=[[1987]]|The [[Megatron Corps]], [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]'s legion of Megatron [[Cloning|clones]] from [[The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers|''The Transformers'' manga]].}}
{{disamb|y=[[1996]]|[[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], the leader of a group of renegade [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] from ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]]'' and later the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] from ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Machines]]''. Yeesss.
**For this character in the cartoons, see [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity]].
**For toys of this character, see [[Megatron (BW)/toys]].}}
{{disamb|y=[[1999]]|[[Megatron (myth)|Megatron]], a mythological figure in the [[Covenant of Primus]].}}
{{disamb|y=1999|[[Megatron X (BW)|Megatron X]], a mysterious silver-colored version of ''Beast Wars'' Megatron from ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Transmetals (N64)|Transformers: Beast Wars Transmetals]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2000]]|[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]], the Predacon [[Six Changer|six-changing]] galactic conqueror from the [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] franchise.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2002]]|[[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]], yet another Decepticon commander and a pivotal figure in the [[Unicron Trilogy continuity family]].
**For his [[Unicron Trilogy cartoon timeline|cartoon incarnation]], see [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity]].
**For toys of this character, see [[Megatron (Armada)/toys]].
**For merchandise of this character, see [[Megatron (Armada)/merchandise]].}}
{{disamb|y=[[2007]]|[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], the former [[Lord High Protector]] of Cybertron who gets a jonesing for the [[AllSpark]] and sparks [[Transformers (film)|a motion picture]].
**For this character in video games, see [[Megatron (Movie)/games]].
**For toys and other merchandise of this character, see [[Megatron (Movie)/toys]]}}
{{disamb|y=2007|[[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]], the (glorious) Decepticon leader from ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2008]]|[[Megatron (TransTech)|Megatron]], the morally ambiguous leader of the Decepticons in ''[[Transformers: TransTech|TransTech]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2008|[[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]], the heroic leader of the Decepticon resistance in ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2010]]|[[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]], the leader of the Decepticons from the [[Aligned continuity family]].
**For toys of this character, see [[Megatron (WFC)/toys]]}}
{{disamb|y=2010|"[[Master Megatron]]", the other Decepticon-allied Megatron from ''Animated''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2011]]|[[Megatron (SG Animated)|Megatron]], the heroic Decepticon from ''[[Shattered Glass Animated]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2011|[[Megatron (Kre-O)|Megatron]], the Decepticon brick-based being and [[Kreon]] from ''[[Kre-O]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2011|[[Darkside Megatron]], the living embodiment of Generation 1 Megatron's insanity.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2012]]|[[Megatron Cannon]], the Decepticon [[Arms Micron]] from ''Prime''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2013]]|[[Megatron (BWSG)|Megatron]], the heroic leader of the Predacons in ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2014]]|[[Megatron (Cloud)|Megatron]], the Decepticon leader from ''[[Transformers Cloud]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2014|[[Megatron (KOU)|Megatron]], the Decepticon guitarist from ''[[Knights of Unicron (band)|Knights of Unicron]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2014|[[Megatron (Battle Masters)|Megatron]], the Decepticon leader from ''[[Battle Masters]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2015]]|[[Megatron (human)|Megatron]], the [[human]] football player who may or may not have Cybertronian origins.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2015]]|[[The Fallen/toys#Tiny Titans|Megatron]], an alternate name for [[The Fallen|Megatronus Prime]], one of the [[Thirteen]] Primes, in the ''[[Tiny Titans]]'' toyline.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2015]]|[[Mini-Megatron]], the diminutive Decepticon from ''[[Transformers vs. G.I. Joe]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2017]]|[[Megatron (SG TransTech)|Megatron]], the heroic Decepticon from ''Shattered Glass TransTech''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2018]]|[[Megatron (Cyberverse)|Megatron]], the Decepticon leader from [[Transformers: Cyberverse (franchise)|''Cyberverse'']].}}
**For the parallel-universe doppelgänger of this character, see [[Megatron X (Cyberverse)|Megatron X]].
{{disamb|y=[[2021]]|[[Blue Megatron]], [[Green Megatron]], [[Purple Megatron]], [[Black Megatron]], [[Red Megatron]], [[White Megatron]], and [[Yellow Megatron]], the members of the [[New Primus Vanguard]] from the ''[[Generations Selects Special Comic]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2021|[[Megatron (SG BB)|Megatron]], the heroic ''Shattered Glass'' Decepticon from ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2022]]|[[Megatron (ES)|Megatron]], the Decepticon leader from ''[[Transformers: EarthSpark (franchise)|EarthSpark]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2023]]|[[Megatron (ROTB)|Megatron]], the Predacon leader spoken of by Command & Convert [[Optimus Primal (ROTB)|Optimus Primal]] from ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (toyline)|Rise of the Beasts]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2024]]|[[Megatron (One)|Megatron]], the Decepticon from ''[[Transformers One (franchise)|One]].''}}

==Fiction with "Megatron" in the title==
{{disamb|y=[[1985]]|"[[Megatron's Master Plan, Part 1|Megatron's Master Plan]]", the two-part episode of ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=1985|"[[Megatron's Fight for Power]]", from [[Ladybird Books]].}}
{{disamb|y=[[1995]]|''[[Megatron Set Special CD]]'', the soundtrack album available with [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s second {{w|LaserDisc}} set of the cartoon.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2004]]|"[[Megatron's Sword]]", an episode from ''[[Transformers: Energon (cartoon)|Energon]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2004|"[[Megatron Resurrected]]", another episode from ''Energon''.}}
{{disamb|y=2004|"[[Megatron Raid]]", a further episode from ''Energon''.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2005]]|"[[Megatron Ondo]]", the song included on [[Geneon Universal Entertainment|DVD volume 7]] of ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Wars Returns]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2007|''[[The Transformers: Megatron Origin|Megatron Origin]]'', the 4-issue comic series from [[IDW Publishing|IDW]].}}
{{disamb|y=2007|"[[Transformers Comic issue 2#Prelude: Megatron|Prelude: Megatron]]", the story featured in issue #2 of the [[Titan Books|Titan]] [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)|comic]].}}
{{disamb|y=2007|"[[Destron Leader Megatron Black Ver.]]", the [[e-HOBBY]] [[pack-in material]].}}
{{disamb|y=2007|"[[Megatron Chapter]]", part of the ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Diorama Story]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2008|"[[Megatron Rising - Part 1|Megatron Rising]]", the two-part episode of ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Animated]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2008|''[[The Transformers: All Hail Megatron|All Hail Megatron]]'', the 16-issue "soft reboot" of the [[2005 IDW continuity|IDW continuity]].}}
{{disamb|y=2008|"[[Starscream Heckles Megatron]]", the ''Animated'' short.}}
{{disamb|y=2008?|"[[Meet Megatron]]", another ''Animated'' short.}}
{{disamb|y=[[2009]]|"[[Transformers Comic issue 24#Megatron's Revenge|Megatron's Revenge]]", the story featured in issue #24 of the Titan comic.}}
{{disamb|y=2010|''[[The Transformers: Best of Megatron|Best of Megatron]]'', the trade paperback collection from IDW.}}
{{disamb|y=2011|"[[A Gift For Megatron]]", the Kre-O animated short.}}
{{disamb|y=2012|"[[Megatron's Revenge]]", the Kre-O animated short.}}
{{disamb|y=2012|"[[Megatron Returns]]", the storybook from [[Bantam Children]].}}
{{disamb|y=2013|"[[Spotlight: Megatron]]", the 28th issue of ''[[The Transformers: Spotlight]]''.}}
{{disamb|y=2016|"[[Not All Megatrons]]", the ''[[Beast Wars: Uprising]]'' prose story.}}
{{disamb|y=2018|"[[Megatron Is My Hero]]", an episode from the ''[[Transformers: Cyberverse (cartoon)|Cyberverse]]'' series.}}

There are also numerous fictions titled something like "[[Optimus Prime vs Megatron (disambiguation)|Optimus Prime vs Megatron]]".

==See also==
{{disamb|y=[[1989]]|[[Megatron's base]] from the [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]] [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|''Generation 1'' comics]].}}
{{disamb|y=2004|[[Megatron's castle]] from the [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] ''[[Dreamwave Generation One continuity|Generation One]]'' comics.}}
{{disamb|y=2012|The Nike Calvin Johnson Megatron collection, a line of sports equipment inspired by Megatron the human.[http://www.nikeblog.com/2012/11/22/nike-calvin-johnson-megatron-collection/]}}

==Not to be confused with...==
*[[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]], a Decepticon commander who temporarily inhabited Megatron's body (or a version of it, it's complicated) from the [[Marvel Comics continuity]].
*[[Archforce]], the [[Europe]]an ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]]'' Decepticon whose toy was released in North America as "[[Hero (G2)|Hero]]" Megatron.
*[[Megatronia]], the combined form of [[Megaempress]] and her [[4 Guards]] from the [[Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity]].
*The [[Megatron statue]], a massive statue of the Unicron Trilogy character.
*[[Megaplex]], a duplicate of Megatron designed to fool his enemies from ''Generation 1''.
*[[Mechatron]], a [[Beast Rider]] from ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Machines]]''.
*[[Gigatron (disambiguation)|Gigatron]], a different name for Megatron, most notably in the [[Viron]] [[universal stream]].
*[[Megabolt]], a pseudo-Decepticon fashioned out of Megatron's corpse from ''Robots in Disguise'' 2001.
*[[Megazarak (disambiguation)|Megazarak]]
*[[Metatron]], the angel mentioned in both ancient Cybertronian texts and real-life Talmud, even if at least one Megatron has ''claimed'' to be him.
*Megatronus, the original name of [[The Fallen]], one of the [[thirteen]] [[Dynasty of Primes|original Transformers]] who some Megatrons take their name from.

==Fiction==
===Dreamwave ''Armada'' continuity===
As the leader of one the main Cybertronian factions, any given reality's Megatron generally posed a problem for the dimension-hopping [[Unicron]], and therefore Megatron was a priority target for any [[Herald of Unicron]]. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 1 of 4}} While grappling with the [[Megatron (Armada)#Dreamwave Armada continuity|Megatron]] of [[Aurex 402.24 Gamma]], lead Herald [[Galvatron (G1)#Dreamwave Armada continuity|Galvatron]] noted to his adversary that he had killed "many" Megatrons. {{storylink|Worlds Collide, Part 3 of 4}}

===''TransTech''/''Timelines''/Ask Vector Prime===
In one of the oldest dimensions in the [[multiverse]], one [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] called [[Axiom Nexus]] is a hub for travelers from other dimensions. The city maintains its relative harmony through a strict principle of "[[Dux non Intruitus]]": all Megatrons, [[Prime (rank)|Primes]], other faction leaders, and [[:Category:MacGuffins|MacGuffins]] from other universes are considered illegal. This hasn't stopped a few [[Megatron (BW)|sneaky]] [[Megatron (Movie)#TransTech|off]][[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|worlders]] from circumventing the ban, though. {{storylink|Bee in the City}} {{storylink|Cybertron's Most Wanted}}

In an interview with [[Rook (TransTech)|Rook]], [[Stungun (TransTech)|Stungun]] once claimed he had met a number of Megatron lookalikes. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/07/29}}

===e-HOBBY comics===
[[Megalligator]] wanted to kill all Megatrons in the multiverse. {{storylink|Cybertron Convobat}}

{{disambig}}

Warpath (G1)

2024-12-12T19:47:33Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Energon Universe */ Changed Silverstreak to Bluestreak. That's the name for the guy on every other page (that's updated)

{{factions|autobot|autobotg2}}
{{disambig3|Warpath}}

:''Warpath is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Warpathg1.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|...or are you just happy to see me?]]
'''Warpath''' is the stereotypical tank commander: loud, boisterous, skilled, confident, devoted to his buddies, and probably a little deaf. His armor is tremendously thick; his skull no less. He loves to show off by splitting hex nuts a mile and a half away, and he has an endless variety of special munitions to load in his prized main gun: cryogenic, acid, thermal, and sonic. His most favorite, however, are the simple explosive shells that go off with a huge explosion, KABOOM!

His gun... how Warpath loves his gun. Prominent and useful in both modes, she has saved his life countless times, and she gets only the best in return. How he loves to line her sights up precisely on a barely visible target, and KAZOWY! blow it to shrapnel with a single well-placed shell. A dud annoys him; a miss is near-fatal embarrassment. A mere scratch to his gun's barrel keeps him up, late into the night, polishing it away. When on occasion his gun is damaged seriously enough to impair her function, he is practically inconsolable for weeks.

{{quote|They don't call me Warpath 'cause I'm gentle. HAHAHAHAHAHA!|Warpath|"[[Dinobot Island, Part 2]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Alan Oppenheimer]] (English), [[Takurō Kitagawa]] (Japanese), [[Yū Shimaka]] (Japanese, "Dinobot Island, Part 2"), [[Show Hayami]] (Japanese, "Prime Target")|[[Zhu Zhunzun]] (Chinese), [[Silvio Anselmo]] (Italian, second dub), [[Juan Carralero]] (Latin American), [[Hans-Rainer Müller]] (German, "Hoist Goes Hollywood"), [[Thomas Rau]] (German, "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1"), [[Bernd Simon]] (German, "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5"), [[Gernot Duda]] (German, "Ghost in the Machine"), [[Willy Schäfer]] (German, ''Generation 2''), [[François Leccia]] (European French, "Dinobot Island, Part 2"), [[Pierre Garin]] (European French, "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court"), Unknown (European French, "The Golden Lagoon" & "Quest for Survival"), [[Serge Lhorca]] (European French, "Prime Target"), [[Francis Lax]] (European French, "Hoist goes Hollywood"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French, "Masquerade"), Unknown (European French, "Five Faces of Darkness" episodes), [[Júlio Chaves]] (Portuguese), [[Ayrton Cardoso]] (Portuguese, "The Golden Lagoon" & "Ghost in the Machine"), [[Orlando Drummond]] (Portuguese, "Quest for Survival"), [[Mário Monjardim]] (Portuguese, "Prime Target"), [[Sílvio Navas]] (Portuguese, "Hoist Goes Hollywood"), [[Ricardo Schnetzer]] (Portuguese, "Masquerade")}}

[[File:G1 APrimeProblem Warpath shot.jpg|left|upright=1.3|thumb|SAFE!]]
Warpath (ZING!) had a habit of (BLAM!) interjecting his speech with (WHAMMO!) onomatopoeia. Whether this was a programming feature or personal choice is unknown. His fellow Autobots seemed to tolerate it.

Warpath appeared with no explanation for his arrival when [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] created a remote-controlled duplicate of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] to lead the Autobots to their doom. He did little more than get shot by a fake [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]]. {{storylink|A Prime Problem}} He later accompanied Optimus Prime and the Autobots to [[Dinobot Island (G1)|Dinobot Island]], where he first demonstrated his zest for combat and unique style of speech. He also had the first of several battles with his opposite number, the [[Triple Changer]] Decepticon tank, [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]]. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 2}}

After [[Grapple (G1)|Grapple]] and [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] teamed up with the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] to build Grapple's [[Solar Power Tower]] and the pair were doublecrossed, Warpath was on the team that drove to their rescue. He started off by blowing up one of the collection units the Decepticons were using to gather the energy. Once the Constructicons formed [[Devastator (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Devastator]], he tried to (WHACK! ZACK! ZORCH!) blast the giant, but Devastator stuck an arm ''into'' the ground and knocked him over. After the Autobots defeated Devastator, Warpath helped pick through the remains of the tower for their two comrades. {{storylink|The Master Builders (episode)|The Master Builders}}

[[File:G1 DinobotIslandPt2 Warpath tank.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|BLAM! KAPOW!]]
He was one of several Autobots who defended the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] when the [[Heart of Cybertron]]-powered Megatron attacked. Warpath acquitted himself well, firing several rounds at the Decepticon leader while shrugging off two direct hits from his energy bolts, but he was ultimately put out of action when Megatron blasted the ground under him, trapping Warpath. {{storylink|Microbots}}

Warpath was on the team that defended the fake solar plan in [[Central City (Earth)|Central City]] against the Decepticons. He, [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] and [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] fired on Starscream in an attempt to prevent the Decepticon from taking off, and in return found themselves under fire from [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]]. After Megatron framed the Autobots, Warpath was among those who were captured by human forces outside Autobot Headquarters. A brief trial ensued, and the Autobots were put on a spaceship supplied by [[Shawn Berger]] and banished from Earth. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 1}} Though the spaceship was locked on a collision course with the [[Sun]], the Autobots managed to escape it and return to Earth, where they toppled the Decepticon regime. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2}}

[[File:G1 DecepRaiderinKingArthurs WarpathramsRamjet.jpg|left|upright=1.2|thumb|So they have Renaissance Fairs on Cybertron, too?]]
On one occasion, Warpath and Hoist were chasing a small group of Decepticons led by Starscream, and ended up passing through the [[Dragon Mound]] and into [[543]] AD. The Autobots and Decepticons took opposite sides with a pair of warring knights, and Warpath allowed the [[Aetheling the Red|Red Knight]] to ride him in joust against [[Wigend of Blackthorn]]'s champions, [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] and [[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]]. They successfully rammed Ramjet, caving in his nosecone and forcing the Decepticons to fall back on the ol' "grab a hostage and run" trick, taking the Red Knight's daughter [[Nimue]] captive. Warpath led the charge against Wigend's castle and, with their siege tower destroyed by some of Starscream's gunpowder barrels, he and Hoist served as makeshift ladders for their allies to breach the castle walls. After thwarting Starscream's plans to rule the 6th century, they enlisted the aid of a local wizard to get back to the 20th century. {{storylink|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court}}

Accompanying [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]] and [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]] on a geology expedition, Warpath managed to get in some (ZOW!) action when Blitzwing and the [[Conehead]]s staged a surprise attack. He and Blitzwing engaged in Tank Wars again, but the fighting got so furious they buried each other in sand for a while. It was anyone's game until Thrust found a pool of [[electrum]] and became invincible. Even a hot and cold mix of [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]]'s thermal beam and Warpath's cryo-shells couldn't break the Decepticon warrior. Warpath was forced to reluctantly sound the retreat, tunneling through the mountainside to make their escape. {{storylink|The Golden Lagoon (episode)|The Golden Lagoon}}

[[File:QuestForSurvival Warpath during Insecticon battle.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|KABLAMMO!!! BANG BANG!!!]]
When the [[Morphobot]]s took over a valley on Earth, Warpath and Ironhide did their best to blast through using a variety of shells and liquid, but it took (POW!) [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]] and some (COWBELL!) tunes to really get them out of the way. {{storylink|Quest for Survival}}

[[File:AotAR.jpg|thumb|left|"I want my ZANG! agent!"]]
When his Autobot friends were kidnapped, Warpath was eager to go and (BAM!) kick some Decepticon hide. He was distraught when Optimus Prime went to deal with it himself. {{storylink|Prime Target (episode)|Prime Target}} He got his time to shine when he popped up on a movie studio one day, and was hired by the [[Attack of the Alien Robots director|director]] with the other Autobots to be his new stunt vehicles. Unfortunately, the work was less than glamorous as Warpath wound up with a (ZING!) horrible pain in his neck and then, shocked by the director's attitude, decided to call it quits. Despite this, he was willing to return for a starring role in the new picture ''[[Attack of the Alien Robots]]'', where he was confused by the lack of real firepower, couldn't believe the reliance on special effects, and flubbed one of his lines. Warpath didn't enjoy working on the movie and went back to being a full-time Autobot soldier, cheering for Hoist when he made the same decision. (CLAP!) {{storylink|Hoist Goes Hollywood (episode)|Hoist Goes Hollywood}}

While the Autobots protected the convoy of [[superfuel]] tankers, Warpath drove point. All he did was sit there in [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]] the whole time. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} He was also at Autobot Headquarters when Powerglide reported that he'd found [[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]] and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] at the [[Amalgamated Water and Power Plant]]. {{storylink|Starscream's Brigade}}

[[File:G1 Masquerade Warpath crushes DeadEnd.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|THUS I REFUTE THEE!]]
Late in [[1985]], the Autobots plotted to capture the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] to discover the reason behind their high-profile thefts. [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]] and Warpath were assigned to take down [[Drag Strip (G1)|Drag Strip]] and [[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]] on a beach. Warpath quickly disabled Drag Strip with a few well-placed explosive shells, while Tracks blinded Dead End with his black beam gun. Unable to see, Dead End drove right into Warpath, who (BAM!) crushed the Decepticon with a single punch that went straight through his roof. {{storylink|Masquerade}}

In the year [[2006]], Warpath watched a broadcast of the first [[Galactic Olympics]]. He commented to [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] that the Autobots sure had an unusual leader in [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] when the young Autobot dispensed with making a long, stuffy speech at the games' opening ceremony. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}}

[[File:G1 FFODPart5 Warpath kicked.jpg|left|thumb|Football's not so cool when you're the ball.]]
As the Decepticons made their move on Earth, Warpath and [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] commanded the team defending the Ark. The Autobots hid in a ravine and as [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]] passed overhead, Warpath gave orders to fire, significantly damaging the Decepticon's rolling battle station mode. However, Trypticon quickly recovered and transformed into his massive dinosaur mode, forcing the Autobot Minicars to regroup and counterattack. Warpath fired a shell which Trypticon merely swatted away, then when the Autobot protested that he didn't (ZEEM!) believe what was happening, he was kicked for his troubles. Warpath ordered [[Teletraan I]] to activate the volcano's defensive cannons as Trypticon neared the Ark, but this had little effect on the Decepticon, who then destroyed the volcano. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

Warpath attended [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]]'s surprise party, however the real surprise came partway through, when he and the other Autobots there were called on to defend the shuttle bay against an attack by the [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]]. {{storylink|Surprise Party}} He was later seen stationed at [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] when [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] and Starscream's ghost came by to steal the [[Titan (group)|Titan]]'s eyes for [[Unicron]]. Being land-bound, poor ol' Warpath unfortunately missed out on most of the aerial action. {{storylink|Ghost in the Machine (G1)|Ghost in the Machine}}

For [[Tommy Kennedy]]'s birthday, Warpath, among other Autobots, presented to the human boy a cake. {{Storylink|Surprise Party#Season 5|Season 5: Surprise Party}}

{{--}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
=====Scramble City=====
When the [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] project was attacked by the Decepticons, Warpath was among the Autobots summoned from the Ark as reinforcements. {{storylink|Scramble City: Mobilization}}

=====''The Battle of the Star Gate''=====
Warpath was amongst the Autobots who once more confronted Megatron and his Decepticons at the ''[[Trigger]]'' in Earth orbit. When Starscream combined himself with the ''Trigger'' to create a powerful new body for himself, Warpath had to contend with the volley of asteroids thrown towards both Autobots and Decepticons from Starscream's star gate. He was then almost sucked into a portal to a black hole when Starscream neared defeat, but was instead sent plummeting down to Earth when Optimus and Megatron worked together to defeat Starscream. {{storylink|The Battle of the Star Gate}}

=====e-HOBBY comics=====
Warpath accompanied [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cliffjumper]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sideswipe]] on a rescue mission to retrieve an [[Eldedroid]] unit. There, they came face to face with the sea monster holding the Eldedroid captive. {{storylink|MP-3G Destron Air Commander / Starscream Ghost Ver.}}

====''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' comic====
During an attack on Yokohama by [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]], [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]], and [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]], Warpath responded with a troop of fellow Autobots. As exuberent as ever, Warpath couldn't wait to test his tank mode against Blitzwing's, ignoring [[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]]'s cries to stop. Unfortunately for Warpath, he neglected to realize that Blitzwing was several times his size, ultimately being run over by the Decepticon. Following the defeat of the three bad guys by [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], a ''very'' injured Warpath managed to muster up the enthusiasm to cheer for their victory. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 4|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #4}}

====Full Throttle Scramble Power!====
Warpath accompanied the massive Autobot reinforcements called in to counter Megatron's nefarious [[Omega Wave Cannon]]. {{storylink|Full Throttle Scramble Power!}}

====Rodimus vs. Cyclonus====
During the battle for [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], Warpath fought against [[Lugnut (TF 2010)|Lugnut]], and managed to blast his opponent right in the face. {{storylink|Rodimus vs. Cyclonus}}
{{-}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Marvel ''The Transformers'' comics====
{{noteukonly}}
[[File:Smeltingpoolminivehicles.jpg|left|thumb|On Cybertron he turned into a tank with a really obvious weakpoint.]]
Warpath was a member of [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor's]] [[Cybertron Seven|resistance cell]] on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. When their untrustworthy scout, [[Scrounge (G1)|Scrounge]] went missing, Warpath and his peers fell in line with [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster's]] plan to find him, overruling Perceptor. After learning Scrounge had been captured by [[Shrapnel (G1)|Shrapnel]], Blaster went alone to the [[smelting pool]] to save him, prompting Powerglide to follow and haul him out while Warpath and the three others distracted the Decepticon guards. When they returned to base, Perceptor's small group of Autobots received the first good news they had heard in eons, for Scrounge had handed them evidence that [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]] lived, at the expense of his own life. {{storylink|The Smelting Pool!}}

[[File:Powerglidereadytoblastoffrightnow.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb]]
Further reconnaissance revealed startling news—the Decepticons were building a [[space bridge]]! As this would spell certain doom for both Cybertron and [[Earth]], a desperate raid on Straxus's Darkmount fortress was launched. Warpath was in charge of setting the explosives which brought down the massive tower. This attack was mostly successful, as it leveled Darkmount and ended in Straxus's destruction, but Warpath and the rest of his Autobot comrades had to retreat to Earth over the Space Bridge as it self-destructed. Here they were greeted immediately by a group of humans. {{storylink|The Bridge to Nowhere!}} Though Megatron and his troops spotted the Autobots upon their materialization on Earth, the Decepticons were distracted by a more pressing mission at the time, and left without attacking the new arrivals. {{storylink|Command Performances!}} However, the humans belonged to the anti-robot attack team, [[Rapid Anti-robot Assault Team|RAAT]]. While Warpath and the other Autobots, unfamiliar with how things worked on Earth, tried to talk to their vehicles, RAAT deployed "electric snow" missiles to disorient them. Warpath's group was then too dazed to fight back, and were captured with the help of [[Circuit Breaker (G1)|Circuit Breaker]]. {{storylink|Heavy Traffic!}} Warpath and his fellows were disassembled, with their heads getting mounted on the wall of RAAT's headquarters. {{storylink|Aerialbots over America!}} The Autobots were only given a chance at freedom after Circuit Breaker was forced to elicit their aid to defeat the [[Battlecharger]]s. Warpath and the other Autobots' components were combined to form a [[Circuit Breaker's Autobot suit|jury-rigged robot]] that Circuit Breaker used to stop the duo while they were defacing the status of liberty. After [[Runabout (G1)|Runabout]] and [[Runamuck (G1)|Runamuck]] were sent packing, Warpath and the Autobots were allowed to leave on their own terms. {{storylink|Decepticon Graffiti!}}

[[File:FallenAngel-Perceptor.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.3]]
''Following [[Skids (G1)|Skids]] back to the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], Warpath and the others got lost after their guide spontaneously vanished into [[limbo]]. Even worse was the reason for the disappearance—[[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] had returned to the present. Warpath and Perceptor were the first to fall against their seemingly invincible foe.'' {{storylink|Fallen Angel}} ''After Galvatron was forced into retreat by the vagrant [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], Perceptor's team finally managed to reach the Ark, where Warpath and the others learned of Optimus Prime's apparent demise at the hands of the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]]. It was soon revealed that Prime's death was a ruse.'' {{storylink|Resurrection!}}

Later, after Optimus Prime's ''real'' death, Warpath was one of the several Autobots who watched on as Ratchet futilely tried to repair his body. Once the Autobot leader was declared irreparable, the Autobots held a funeral service for their leader, and launched his remains into space. {{storylink|Funeral for a Friend!}}

[[File:Warpathkingofthehill.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|In the comics, the landscape provided the sound effects]]
Later still, the Ark was put under assault by a [[Sonic-scrambler mine|sonic scrambler missile]] fired by the Decepticon assault base known as [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]. Warpath destroyed this first missile, and the Autobots went hunting for their attacker. Trypticon would have proven to be too much for them, though, without the timely intervention of [[Grimlock (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Grimlock]] and the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]. As thanks, the Autobots named Grimlock their new leader. {{storylink|King of the Hill!}}

Grimlock's leadership turned out to be very unpopular, especially when he captured a group of [[Spacehikers|Earth children]] and threatened to execute them if Blaster didn't turn himself in for treason. Warpath and a handful of other Autobots watched quietly outside the Ark as the children were marched into space. {{storylink|Spacehikers!}}

{{note|Warpath is the only Earthbound Autobot genuinely missing from the otherwise exhaustive groupshot in "[[Totaled!]]".}}

Much later, Warpath, along with all the other Autobots, responded promptly to [[Buster Witwicky (G1)|Buster Witwicky]]'s distress signal sent from the [[Arctic]]. {{storylink|Dark Star}}

====Transformers Annual 1985====
{{note|Due to being published early in the franchise, these stories are out of continuity with the above.<ref>"Plague of the Insecticons!" was later designated as [[universal stream]] [[Primax 1285.0 Gamma]] by [[Vector Prime]].</ref>}}
[[File:Warpath plague of the insecticons.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.6]]
Realizing that their mission on Earth would be infinitely more difficult without capable human allies, Optimus attempted to open a dialogue with the American government. Planning the meeting in utmost secrecy, he, Warpath, and [[Prowl (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Prowl]] managed to secure an audience with the [[Ronald Reagan|President of the United States]]. The three Autobots drove to the White House, and were warmly received by their host, but their talk was interrupted by the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticons]]. The Autobots did their best to take down the trio, only for [[Bombshell (G1)|Bombshell]] to loudly proclaim that Optimus was his leader, and he was off to attack [[Washington, D.C.|the city]] as per his orders. Unfortunately, the President's soldier escorts were quick to turn on the Autobots, having assumed that Bombshell had revealed the robots' true intent.

Warpath and Prowl were sent to deal with the Insecticons, while Optimus went off on his own to "cut them off at their source." Though Warpath was confused over what Optimus had just said, Prowl assured him not to bother himself with it; they had a mission to do, and that was the only thing they needed to think about. They drove to downtown Washington, finding that their foes had wasted no time in reducing the scene to a warzone. Worse yet, Prowl was soon downed by one of [[Shrapnel (G1)|Shrapnel]]'s [[Shrapnel grenade|splinter grenades]]. An outraged Warpath rammed Shrapnel, but was unable to prevent him from taking to the air once more. Thankfully, Optimus's [[Roller (G1)|Roller]] drone came to Warpath's aid, evening out the odds. Optimus was successful on his end of the mission, taking out the one responsible for remote-controlling the Insecticons: [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]]. With the battle over, Optimus and his troops fled the scene; they felt that the humans would not believe them should they try and explain the situation, and that the Decepticon had already sullied their reputation beyond repair. {{storylink|Plague of the Insecticons!}}
{{-}}

====''Classics''====
{{noteclassics}}
[[File:Invasion-cannotwillnot.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Warpath was stationed at the [[Ironworks (facility)|Ironworks]] when it was invaded by [[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]] and the evil Autobots of the [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|negative polarity universe]]. Warpath tried to defend the Autobot station from attack, but he was cut down by Magnus's [[Terminus Blade]]. {{storylink|Invasion (issue)|Invasion}}

Once he was repaired into a [[Warpath (G1)#Generations|new body]], Warpath continued working with their heroic Decepticon allies in hunting down Ultra Magnus. {{storylink|Distant Fissures}}

Warpath abandoned the Earth with his team when the [[Rarefied Energon]] of the Ironworks brought the planet [[Gaea|to life]]. {{storylink|The Future Buried...}}
{{-}}

====''Regeneration One''====
{{NoteRG1}}
Warpath was amongst the Autobots who Optimus Prime took with him to confront [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] on a devastated Earth in [[2012]]. While Prime battled Megatron, Warpath helped the others hold off an army of reanimated [[zombie]]s. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 5}}

===''S.T.A.R.S.'' continuity===
Before the construction of Autobot City on Earth, Optimus led a convoy of Autobots to find the ideal location for their new base's construction. Warpath was amongst the troops accompanying Optimus. As they drove along, the Autobots were ambushed by the Decepticons. The battle that ensued later came to be known as "[[Digital Doom on the Highway to Destruction (G1)|Digital Doom on the Highway to Destruction]]." {{storylink|Rodimus Prime remembers the Transformers greatest battle on Earth.}}

Optimus ordered Warpath, Cliffjumper and Cosmos to flee the battle in order to fetch reinforcements. {{storylink|Transformers Combat Data}} {{storylink|The Autobots Are Under Attack!}}
{{-}}

===''Find Your Fate Junior''===
{{notemultipath}}
====Dinobots Strike Back====
When four of the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s were sent on a rampage courtesy of [[Bombshell (G1)|Bombshell]]'s [[cerebro-shell]]s, the Autobots realized that the mind-control devices could be dislodged by bringing "them down, fast and hard!" Warpath dislodged [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]]'s shell with a barrage of his own explosive sonic shells. {{storylink|Dinobots Strike Back}}
{{-}}

====Decepticon Poison====
Warpath was amongst the Autobots getting topped up with their latest batch of fuel when Red Alert burst into Autobot headquarters, warning everyone about Ramjet being spotted nearby. The Autobots’ latest batch of fuel had been poisoned by the fleeing Decepticon, leaving Warpath unable to transform.

If the Autobots decided to assume a defensive strategy in light of these events, Warpath was comforted by Optimus as he began to be wracked with sickness pains.

In one possible sequence of events that ensued, Perceptor gave out the right amount of an antidote the Autobot scientist had created, allowing Warpath to resume his robot form and take arms against an incoming squadron of Decepticons. The antidote having given Warpath and the rest of the cured Autobots a case of battle fever, the bunch were eager to take on the Decepticons head on in combat. The more level-head Prowl suggested instead a more conniving approach, where the Autobots would ambush their assailants.

If Optimus allowed Warpath and the rest of the refuelled Autobots to venture headlong into battle, the group fond themselves fighting against Megatron himself, accompanied by a squad of Decepticon jets. Warpath's acid shells forced the jets accompanying Megatron to disperse. Then Megatron opened fire, knocking the Autobots into disarray, prompting Optimus to lead a second wave into battle. The second wave soon ran out of fuel, prompting the Autobots to call a retreat. Thankfully, the Decepticons were damaged enough through the course of the battle, causing them to retreat as well.

If Optimus instead followed Prowl's plan, he instructed Warpath and the others to transform into vehicle mode and play dead. The Decepticons, believing the Autobots to be already dead, disarmed themselves in order to carry out the Autobots’ “carcasses.” Now with the element of surprise against unarmed opponent, the Autobots Transformed and were able to easily defeat the evil robots.

In another possible turn of events, Perceptor gave out too much of his antidote to each Autobot. Though Warpath initially cheered, finding himself able to transform once more, he soon found himself literally falling to pieces. The Autobots finding themselves completely outmatched against an all-out Decepticon attack were made short work of by the Decepticons.

In yet another possible scenario, the Autobots used the tainted fuel to create a toxic cloud that successfully fended off the Decepticons attack. This plan gave Perceptor the time he needed to cure Warpath and the others with his antidote. Their ranks fully replenished and the Decepticons turning tail meant the Autobots had earned themselves another victory.

In completely different possible sequence of events, Optimus successfully retrieved the antidote to the poison from the Decepticons’ poison lab, and with Ratchet's help, brought Warpath and the rest of the poisoned Autobots back from the precipice of death. Now cured, the Autobots discussed their next course of action; they had to prevent the Decepticons from poisoning the nearby water reservoir.

If Optimus led his troops back to the Decepticons’ poison lab, Warpath was amongst the Autobot convoy that drove into action.

Happening upon the Decepticons hauling barrels of poison out of their lab, the Autobots devised a couple of plans to take them out.

In one plan, devised by Windcharger, Warpath then finished off the Decepticons, after Prowl, Jazz and Windcharger worked together to ignite the barrels of poison. Creating a sonic boom to shatter every beaker in the Decepticon lab, Warpath made sure that the Decepticons would not be able to use their lab again any time soon. The Autobots then drove victoriously back to base. {{storylink|Decepticon Poison}}
{{-}}

===Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity===
[[File:OmegaEffect-Warpathcarries.jpg|left|thumb|Just drape 'im over your nozzle, Warpath.]]
Warpath was first seen among Cybertron's population, observing anti-Autobot propaganda being pumped through the cortex by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] to discredit Optimus Prime and his returning crew. {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}} Warpath, like most Autobots, recognized it as a load of BLAM! POW! ZOOM! and joined [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]], [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and several other Mini-Vehicles in rising up along with the other Autobot insurgency cells to fight back against Shockwave's rule. {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (issue)|Countdown to Extinction}}

After the fall, Warpath traveled to Earth under [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]'s command aboard the supply ship, ''[[Orion]]''. {{storylink|Night of the Combaticons}} They crashlanded in the midst of a three-way battle between the Autobots and Decepticons of Earth and a lone super-powerful clone warrior known as [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]]. {{storylink|Black Sunshine}} Things got more than a little hectic, and the Autobots were forced to make a deal with Starscream in order to gain his cooperation against (and he, their protection from) Sunstorm. The Autobots were ultimately able to drive Sunstorm away when he inevitably returned, a battle in which Warpath donned a jetpack to shoot some mortars at the solar-powered Decepticon. {{storylink|Skyfire (issue)|Skyfire}} As part of his deal with the Autobots, Starscream told them where he had stashed several other Autobots his brigade had captured earlier, and Warpath and [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]] were sent out to retrieve them. On the salvage run, however, the pair ran into [[Earth Defense Command]] agents who made a forceful BOOM! suggestion that the Autobots accompany them back to their base. {{storylink|The Omega Effect}} Warpath was knocked out during this encounter, and later awakened within a transport hold with Bumper and the still-unconscious Autobots. Admitting he was rather worried about their current predicament, Warpath asked Bumper what was to become of them. Unfortunately, Bumper was as clueless as he was. {{storylink|Atonement}}

After arriving at their headquarters, Warpath learned that the EDC were looking to conscript some Autobots to help them deal with an [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon]] problem. [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] agreed to help after being reactivated. He left Warpath behind, however, to watch over their comrades [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]], who had not yet been revived. {{storylink|Infestation (Dreamwave)|Infestation}} After dealing with the Insecticons, Jazz and his unit hooked back up with Warpath, and then all of them said their farewells to Marissa and the EDC. {{storylink|Lost and Found (issue)|Lost and Found}} They then proceeded on to the future site of [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], under construction at [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]]'s direction. {{storylink|The Route of All Evil}}
{{-}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
Warpath was part of a small team of Autobots led by [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], eager to fight back against the new Decepticon leader [[Serpentor|Serpent O.R.]]. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 4|The Art of War #4}}

===''The Beast Within''===
After a brutal battle during which [[Beast (G1)|The Beast]], a monstrous gestalt of unimaginable power, was released, Warpath's butchered form lay smoldering in a mass grave of both Autobot and Decepticon corpses. {{storylink|The Beast Within Part 2, Consequences}}
{{-}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
:*''First Appearance:'' [[Spotlight: Galvatron]]

[[File:OP1 protest.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|left|Peacepath?]]
In the time before the war, Warpath worked under [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] as part of the Security Services. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 2|Megatron Origin #2}} He attended the joint funeral of Bumper and [[Fastback (G1)|Fastback]] after the pair had been killed by early members of the Decepticon faction. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}}

Four million years ago, during the era of [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta Prime]], Warpath was a member of a crowd protesting the murder of a Decepticon named [[Hefter]]. {{storylink|New Cybertron Part 1: To Walk Among the Chosen|To Walk Among the Chosen}}

After the war began, he was present at a victory celebration after the Autobots halted a major Decepticon energon convoy. {{storylink|The Iron Age}}

[[File:SpotlightGalvatron Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|And what if we don't wanna?]]
Millions of years later, Warpath was a member of [[Hound (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Hound]]'s Tactical Response Unit, guarding [[Thunderhead Pass]], a lonely assignment watching over the deactivated form of [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] and his cultists who rested in stasis lock. When [[Sideswipe (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sideswipe]] broke comm silence to request a transfer to [[Earth]], Warpath was witness to Hound's dressing down of the aggressive Autobot. The monotony was suddenly broken without warning when [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|a mysterious, powerful Transformer]] arrived on Cybertron to claim Thunderwing for [[Nova Prime|his master]]. Warpath and the squad were easily brushed aside by the ancient warrior. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}}

Later, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] informed Hound that his unit should make preparations to come to Earth as reinforcements. {{storylink|Devastation issue 1|Devastation #1}} However, due to the extraction of prisoners from [[Garrus-9]], Hound's unit, including Warpath was diverted there instead. {{storylink|Devastation issue 6|Devastation #6}}

[[File:SpotlightCyclonus Autobots confront Cyclonus.jpg|left|upright=1.7|thumb|Over there on the right!]]
On the way, their ship, the ''[[Ark-12]]'' was attacked by [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] and Warpath took some slight damage. However, he would get his revenge later on the surface of [[Corata-Vaz]], where he took down Cyclonus with a blast to the chest. Cyclonus escaped when Warpath and the others were temporarily distracted by Thunderwing. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}}

Warpath, his team and the Wreckers were still fighting with Thunderwing when Nova, now known as Nemesis Prime, attacked the [[Garrus-9]] penitentiary. {{storylink|Spotlight: Doubledealer}} After the recovery of the [[Epistemus|Magnificence]] by [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Hot Rod]] answered ''many'' questions about the Nova and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]]'s plans for the [[Expansion]], Warpath and his team were redeployed with [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] to [[China]]'s [[Jiangxi Province]] on Earth to secure the [[space bridge]] being used by the Dead Universe transformers. While Sideswipe single-handedly took on [[Grindcore (G1)|Grindcore]], Warpath and the others fought [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]], but soon they were forced to leave Sideswipe behind to proceed with their mission. Fortress Maximus and Warpath used the space bridge network to arrive on [[Rotan]] and remove its [[Nega-Core]], which were then returned to Dead Universe where they would no longer be a threat to the living universe. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

[[File:TheVerge WarpathVSCons.jpg|right|upright=1.7|thumb|I am not trapped in a facility full of 'cons. ''You'' are all trapped in here with ''me''!]]
After the war between Autobots and Decepticons ended, Warpath stood guard at the crime scene of [[Skydive (Predator)|Skydive]]'s murder. {{storylink|Devisive}} He later took some time out to unwind at [[Maccadam's Old Oil House]]. {{storylink|Night and the City}} He was supposed to participate in Prowl's raid on the former Decepticon pen, but ended up watching the building explode in his face instead. {{storylink|The End of the Beginning of the World}} When [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] showed up for the first time since the end of the war, the Autobots wasted no time in trying to blast him to oblivion, but were stopped by the Decepticons and opted to lock him up instead. Warpath, [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]], and [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]] were assigned to guard him. {{storylink|City on Fire}} Unfortunately, the three of them couldn't stand against the fired up rioting Decepticons, who invaded the prison, defeated them and freed Megatron. {{storylink|The Verge}} As the riot escalated into a full-on battle, [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] found the three injured Autobots and took them to safety. {{storylink|Heavy Is the Head}}

Warpath eventually recovered from his damage, and joined the united Cybertronian front against 70 billion [[Ammonite]]s invading on behalf of the "[[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Dark Cyclops]]". {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}} Guarding the [[Firecon]]s after their imprisonment, Warpath saw their calls for "justice" and "rights" as a typical example of Decepticon hypocrisy. His callousness bothered [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]], and so did the aggressive nature of his name. {{storylink|The Killing Jar (issue)|The Killing Jar}}
{{-}}

===''Henkei! Henkei!'' pack-in manga===

Warpath and the Minibots found [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] mysteriously buried in the Earth. When he reactivated, Dinobot fought the Autobots in pursuit of a warrior's conflict, but eventually came to respect his opponents after a battle. {{storylink|Henkei! Henkei! volume 11}}

===''Transformers vs. G.I. Joe''===
During the final showdown between the Autobot/[[G.I. Joe (team)|Joe]] and Decepticon/[[Cobra]] alliances, [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] punched into [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s chest and unleashed several soldiers into the Decepticon base's interior, Warpath among them. {{storylink|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe issue 12|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe #12}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
[[File:Warpath_vs_threefolds_IDW2019.jpg|left|thumb|180px|Wave goodbye to your head wanker!]]During the [[War of the Threefold Spark]], Warpath was a member of [[Strika (BM)|Strika]]'s [[Strika's Heavies|Heavies]], serving with the elite strike team under the command of the eponymous [[Great General]]. He confronted [[Exarchon]] himself once, outside the ruins of [[Yuss]]. {{storylink|The Change In Your Nature Part Three}} In the modern day, as [[Kup (G1)|Kup]] assembled an ad-hoc artillery unit that included veteran Heavies [[Flak (G1)|Flak]] and [[Big Shot|Topshot]], [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] pointed out that Warpath was currently in stasis so [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] was sent to wake him up. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' marketing material===
[[File:WFC-Kingdom-Warpath-art.jpg|thumb]]
Closer than ever to reaching the [[AllSpark]], the Autobots awakened after crash-landing on pre-Ice Age Earth. While battling the Decepticons, both sides were joined by the [[Maximal]]s and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]]s, their epic battle changing their combined destinies.

Warpath was a [[Cybertronian military insignia|Ground Command Artillery Sergeant]], {{storylink|Warpath (G1)#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|''Kingdom'' toy packaging}} whose function was a warrior, and he [[trans-scan]]ned into a tank. His great strength and explosives were his powers and weapons, and his core traits were his boisterousness, loud-mouthed attitude, and showiness. Warpath's message from the future was that firepower is not the only way to win a war. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Kingdom|''Kingdom'' webpage}}<ref>[https://transformers.hasbro.com/en-us/brands/kingdom ''Kingdom'' webpage]</ref>
{{-}}

===Energon Universe===
[[File:TF2023-sparkdamneddecepticons.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|"Dang son, you're a fighting, [[frag]]ging, oil drinking machine!"]]

Warpath was part of a team of Autobots made up of Elita One, Huffer, and Kup in an assault on a Decepticon stronghold to free Ultra Magnus. During the mission, Warpath was badly damaged by the Decepticons. {{storylink|Transformers (2023) issue 7|Transformers #7}} Sometime after the assault, Warpath was found by Bluestreak, who helped carry him away to safety, the two running into a recently arrived Cliffjumper while linking up with other surviving Autobots. {{storylink|Transformers (2023) issue 15|Transformers #15}}

{{--}}

==Commercial appearances==
*Warpath and [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] were pinned down on the battlefield by the Decepticon triple-changers, [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] and [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]]. Thankfully, the new recruits [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]] arrived on the scene and were able to chase off the Decepticon aggressors. {{storylink|Commercial/Generation 1#Sandstorm, Broadside, Octane|Sandstorm, Broadside, and Octane commercial}}
*Warpath was part of a massive battle between Kreons. When [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] and [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]] joined the fight, Warpath was one of many Autobots who fled in terror at the sight of them. {{storylink|Commercial#Kre-O|KRE-O Transformers Micro Changers and Combiners Construction Sets commercial}}

==Games==
===3D Battle-Card Game===
Warpath was one of [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]]'s many Autobot allies in a fight against [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]]'s Decepticon forces, in what might possibly have been an inter-universe battle. {{storylink|3D Battle-Card Game#Energon Wars expansion|Energon Wars Expansion Set}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Legends''===
In the early days of the war, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and Warpath battled [[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]] and [[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]], who were under orders to breach Iacon's defences. The Autobots emerged victorious when [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] awakened and joined the fray. {{storylink|Assault on Iacon}}

When the [[Military Patrol]] was unleashed on [[New York City|New York]], Warpath joined [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] in driving the Decepticon team out of the city. {{storylink|Full Assault}} Warpath, [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]], and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] were transported to the sixth century where they joined with [[Aetheling the Red|Lord Aetheling]], and were forced to combat similarly displaced Decepticons at a medieval technology level. They eventually triumphed and returned to the present with the Decepticons as prisoners. {{storylink|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (Legends)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court}} When Hoist was cast in a Hollywood film, Warpath and some other Autobots decided to get in on the action, however the film was jeopardized when Decepticons attacked the set. The Autobots were able to fight them off, and the film became a blockbuster success. {{storylink|Hoist Goes Hollywood (Legends)|Hoist Goes Hollywood}}

===''Angry Birds Transformers''===
{{main|Bomb (AB)#As Warpath}}
Warpath appears as a character unlockable in Challenge Events. He is portrayed by Bomb. {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:BattleTacticsWarpath.jpg|thumb|right|400px]]
Warpath participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was an Uncommon character that could be recruited by collecting 30 units of Cybermetal, and 12 units of Transmetal. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
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===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:Warpath_Earth_Wars.jpg|thumb|upright=1.75]]

*'''Class''': Special
*'''Lowest Star Rating:''' 2 star
*'''Ability: '''High Velocity Shell: Launch a shell that punches through everything in a straight line to the target and beyond, dealing 69.3 damage to everything it hits
[http://wiki.transformersearthwars.com/character:warpath Warpath at Transformers: Earth Wars Wiki]
{{-}}

===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
Warpath was a heavily armed Autobot. {{storylink|Transformers Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook|Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1-toy WarpathOrig.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|MINT! NEWT!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Mini-Vehicle, [[1985]])}}</ul>

: Premiering in the second year of the [[Hasbro]] ''[[The Transformers (toyline)|The Transformers]]'' line, [[Mini Vehicle]] Warpath transforms into a General Motors M551A1 Sheridan ARAAV tank with a rotating turret.

: There is a notable paint variation on Warpath: while most releases have black-painted optics, some leave the optics unpainted yet cover his entire faceplate in black. There are also some very minor company stamping variants: all versions have "© Takara 1984 Japan" on the underside, but latter releases add "© Hasbro 1984" above it.

: His cannon barrel is a fairly common breaking point, typically snapping off under the "block" part connecting the barrel to the turret.

: In late 1986, he was made available as a mail-away item in the "[[Digital Doom on the Highway to Destruction (G1)|Digital Doom on the Highway to Destruction]]" flier packed with most boxed ''Transformers'' toys. He cost $4 and one [[Robot Point]].

: In Japan, despite his notable presence in the cartoon, he was ''not'' available in the regular retail line, but was sold ''only'' as a mail-away item, costing 500 yen and two Robot Points.

: This mold was used to make [[Treds#Toys|Treds]].

::*''[http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/toy-info/transformers-g1-mini-vehicles-warpath/723/ Patent info, price guide, and further reading on Warpath at Transformerland.com]''
::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1985/Autobot/Warpath/warpath.htm More information on Warpath at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''The Transformers Collection''===
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Minibot Team''' (Multi-pack, [[2004]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number'': '''12''' (set), '''87''' (individual)

:Warpath was reissued in a ''[[The Transformers Collection]]'' six-pack with [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#The Transformers Collection|Bumble]], [[Cosmos (G1)#The Transformers Collection|Adams]], [[Gears (G1)#The Transformers Collection|Gears]], [[Huffer (G1)#The Transformers Collection|Huffer]], and [[Powerglide (G1)#The Transformers Collection|Powerglide]]. There are no notable differences between the original and the reissue versions, aside from a factory-applied foil Autobot sigil decal on his turret.

:This entire set was [[redeco]]ed to make the "[[G1 GoBots]]" set: Warpath was used to make [[Treds#Toys|Treds]].
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Warpathlegendsuniverse.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|My eyes are up here.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Legends, [[2008]])}}</ul>
{{toydesigner|[[Bill Rawley]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|Universe]]'' (2008) Warpath transforms from an [[Popular Cybertronian vehicle alternate modes#H-tank|H-shaped, futuristic tank]], similar to ''Armada'' [[Megatron (Armada)/toys|Megatron]] or ''Animated'' [[Shockwave (Animated)|Shockwave]], to a [[robot mode]] resembling his original form, right down to the cannon in the chest. Warpath's torso tilts back to become the turret of his alt mode, but it doesn't peg in place, so it's always drooping slightly. He is the only Legends Minibot figure that has moving elbows.

:This mold was [[redeco]]ed to make [[Sparkcrusher]]. This figure also served as the basis of the non-toy character [[Warpath (SG)|''Shattered Glass '' incarnation of Warpath]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Autobot/TFUWarpath/warpath.htm More information on Legends Warpath at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Henkei! Henkei!''===
[[File:Henkei-toy Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|A (very noisy) spy.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Minibot Spy Team''' (Multi-pack, [[2009]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number:'' '''C-19'''

:A rather ''inappropriate'' inclusion in the Minibot ''Spy'' Team pack, the ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]]'' version of ''Universe'' Warpath has more [[Show-accuracy|cartoon-accurate]] colors and paint applications. Notably his red is more metallic and darker than the Hasbro version. He also uses a darker gray, and replaces the black eyes with gray and the yellow detail on his chest with gray as well. His Autobot symbol is the traditional red with white outline unlike the Hasbro version.

: He is packed with similarly redecoed Legends-class versions of [[Cosmos (G1)#Henkei! Henkei!|Adams]] and [[Wheelie (G1)#Henkei! Henkei!|Wheelie]].
{{-}}

===''Generations''===
[[File:Generationstoy-Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|We have [[Cosmos (G1)|the eye of a tiger]], [[Beachcomber (G1)|the heart of a lion]], [[Powerglide (G1)|the wings of an eagle]], the big muscular arms of a panther-man, and [[Seaspray (G1)|the silent majesty of a kraken]]!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Deluxe Class, [[2011]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Missile
{{toydesigner|[[Andrew Scribner]] and [[Mark Maher]] (deco)}}

:Warpath is the sole new toy in the eighth wave of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Deluxe Class toys. He transforms from a [[robot mode]] inspired by his original [[Mini Vehicle]] toy into a combat tank of likely made-up origins, possibly inspired by ''Halo''{{'}}s [https://www.halopedia.org/M808_Scorpion Scorpion] and/or ''Command & Conquer''{{'}}s [[fandom:cnc:Mammoth Tank|Mammoth]]. A spring-loaded missile launcher is placed on his right shoulder, and rods in his legs and arms are compatible with [[c joint]] accessories. In tank mode, his turret can rotate and his barrel can rise. "K4-90W" and "Z0W-333" ("kapow" and "zoweee") are [[tampograph]]ed on his legs, a reference to Warpath's distinctive speech pattern from the original cartoon. The black chunk of plastic on Warpath's head is actually translucent plastic and allows for his eyes to glow, granted you have a powerful enough light shining back there.

:Following a trend from other ''Generations'' figures, his [[instructions]] depict him with a different head sculpt for a potential upcoming [[retool]], presumably as [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]]. However, unlike various other ''Generations'' toys, the alternate head only shows up in ''some'' steps in the instructions, whereas most steps simply depict Warpath's actual head.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2011/Autobot/Warpath/warpath.htm More information on ''Generations'' Warpath at TFU.info]''
{{GenerationsDeluxeWarpathMold}}
{{-}}

===''United''===
[[File:Unitedtoy-Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66| In case you wanted an accurate Warpath and had a big enough wallet.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Deluxe Class, [[2012]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number:'' '''UN-24'''
:*''Release date'': [[January 28]], 2012
:*''Accessories:'' Missile

: The ''[[Transformers United|United]]'' release of Warpath casts him in a red that is a close approximation of the original toy rather than the more red-brown coloration of the [[Hasbro]] release. He also features silver-outlined (only) Autobot symbols rather than the solid black symbols found on the ''Generations'' version, and lacks the alphanumeric codes on his tank sides. Curiously, his head is cast in red plastic rather than gray plastic painted over brownish red like the Hasbro release (despite no other gray plastic to red plastic changes).

:Like the 5th and 6th wave figures, Warpath's package features a sticker that said "limited quantity (数量限定)", indicating that this figure will be released in small quantities during its first and only shipment.
{{GenerationsDeluxeWarpathMold}}
{{-}}

===''Bot Shots''===
[[File:BotShots Warpath launcher.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath Launcher''' (Launcher, 2012)}}</ul>
:*''Series'': '''2'''
:*''Number'': '''BL004'''
:*''Accessories:'' Launcher, 3-piece target
:**''Fist strength'': '''440'''
:**''Blaster strength'': '''873'''
:**''Sword strength'': '''297'''

:Part of the second wave of Series 2 ''[[Bot Shots (toyline)|Bot Shots]]'' launchers, Warpath is a retool of the [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]] Flip Shot mold to give him a more Warpath-like head, though [[#Notes|possibly]] Brawl was retooled from Warpath. He turns into a bitty tank, with a spring-loaded transformation to robot mode triggered when his front bumper is pressed. He comes with a large trailer redecoed from [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys|Bumblebee]]'s trailer, and a large circular target that breaks into pieces when hit.

:This mold was to be redecoed into [[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]] for the cancelled Combaticon 5-Pack set.

:The second wave of Series 2 launchers didn't reach mass retail in the United States, and were only available online or in discount stores like Ross.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2013/Autobot/BSLWarpath/warpath.htm More information on Warpath at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy WarpathKreon.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2012/[[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''Collection'': '''1'''
:*''Bag number'': '''*****43'''
:*''Accessories'': Logo brick
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

:Part of the first normal wave of [[Micro-Changer]] [[Kreon]]s, Warpath is a [[blindpacking|blindpacked]]-bagged mini-figure, though a stamped ID number can be found on the back of the bag, top-right corner. He comes with an extra part (one 1X1 brick with a stud on the side) to turn him into a tank.

:He uses the [[Ironhide (Kre-O)|Ironhide]] style helmet.

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Kreon Class of 1985''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)}}</ul>
:*''Set number'': '''B5152'''
:*''Voted'': Loves the Smell of Cryo-Shells in the Morning

:[[Kreon Class of '85]] Warpath has a much more toy-based deco, complete with masked face. The Kreons in this set all use the totally-revamped 2015 style bodies.

: He was only available as part of the [[San Diego Comic-Con]]-[[exclusive]] "[[Kreon Class of '85]]" 30-Kreon set. This set was also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] after the show.

{{-}}{{Anchor|2016}}
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, [[2016]])}}</ul>
:*''Collection'': '''1'''
:*''Accessories'': Logo plate

:In 2016, Collection 1 was re-released in a whole new production run for Dollar General stores in the US as part of a large collection of re-released ''Kre-O'' sets. But where most of these releases are nigh-identical to the originals, the re-released Micro-Changer blind-bags use the almost-entirely-retooled 2015 Kreon, with slightly-differently-hued plastics than the originals. (It is possible for some of the add-on pieces to be in the older hues.) Warpath's torso and face [[tampograph]]s have also been reworked to be slightly more detailed, and the formerly-bare legs now have extra detail tampographing on them. The 1x1 top-clip piece is also slightly different from the original, with a much lower-set clip.

:Sadly, this release has no individual-identification code on the bag, requiring you to use the feel-through-the-bag method or just buy blind and hope.
{{-}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Combiner-Wars-Legends-Class-Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|In case you skipped the other ''Generations'' Warpath because you thought its accuracy to Warpath was a little too on the nose.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Legends Class, 2015)}}</ul>
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:Part of the third wave of ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Legends class figures, this new iteration of Warpath is a retool of ''[[Thrilling 30]]'' Legends [[Megatron (G1)/Generations toys#Thrilling 30|Megatron]] with a new head, and hence lacks the chest cannon he usually sports. Undocumented in the instructions, [[Chop Shop (G1)#Generations|Chop Shop]] (or his redecoes [[Beet-Chop#Movie Advanced Series|Beet-Chop]] and [[Beet-Chit#Timelines|Beet-Chit]]) can attach to the front of Warpath’s tank mode.

:Warpath also comes with a collector card based on his packaging art.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Autobot/CWLegWarpath/warpath.htm More information on ''Combiner Wars'' Warpath at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Vintage G1''===
[[File:VintageG1-Warpath-Reissue.jpg|thumb]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' ("Legion Class", 2019)}}</ul>

:Part of the second wave of "Legion Class" figures in the ''[[Vintage|Vintage G1]]'' line, Warpath is a reissue of his [[#Generation 1|Generation 1 figure]], with some mild differences. This release lacks the Japanese reissue's additional foil insignia on the turret, bringing it back in line with the original. The rubsign is an all-new type used on all of the ''Vintage G1'' toys; the insignia only turns red rather than the mood-ring multicolor of older rubsigns, plus the silver border is mirror-level reflective. This version also has production information tampographed onto him rather than molded.

:Like all ''Vintage G1'' figures, Warpath is [[exclusive]] to [[Walmart]] in the United States and Canada.
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron: Kingdom''===
[[File:TF-WFC-Kingdom-Deluxe-Class-Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Released earlier to lie in wait for ''Legacy'' [[Blitzwing (G1)/toys#Legacy|Blitzwing]] and [[Dinobot Island, Part 2#Quotes|'''tank''']] him when he shows up.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Warpath''' (Deluxe Class, [[2020]])}}</ul>
:*''Hasbro ID Number'': '''WFC-K6'''
:*''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''KD-06'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[May 29]], 2021
:*''Accessories'': Tank undercarriage, Golden Disk card
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of the first wave of ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' Deluxe Class figures, Warpath has design elements from both the Sunbow cartoon animation model and the original toy. He transforms from a robot larger than his mini-bot brethren, but still smaller than the average Deluxe Class, into a tank loosely similar to the General Motors {{w|M551 Sheridan|M551A1 Sheridan}} ARAAV. The underside of the tank separates from the figure and can be attached to the robot mode's shoulder or arm as a shield, or mounted on its back. In tank mode, Warpath's turret can rotate a full 360 degrees, and his cannon can raise up.

: All of Warpath's gray-white plastic parts are prone to [[photodegradation]].

: Warpath also comes with a [[Golden Disk (Voyager)|Golden Disk]] card that "[[Source:Golden Disk destinies|reveals a possible destiny of a key character]]", with each character having three possible destiny variants.

:This mold was also used to make ''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' Go-Bots Guardians [[Treds]].

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''3D Battle-Card Game''===
[[File:3DBattleCard Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|BAM! Sorry, I just can't- WHAM! KAZOW!!!]]
*'''Warpath''' (2007)

:A 35-point "common" character in the [[3D Battle-Card Game]]'s "Energon Wars" expansion, Warpath "transforms" into a red and grey tank. He uses the same parts layout as [[Transformers (2007 toyline)|Movie]] [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]], Movie [[Wreckage (Movie)|Wreckage]], and "Energon Wars" [[Blitzwing (G1)/toys|Blitzwing]].
{{--}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W2Warpath.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Warpath, Confident Sharpshooter''' (2019)
**'''Wave 2: Rise of the Combiners'''
**''Rarity: '''''RT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T45/T46'''
**''Stars: ''6

:Warpath, Confident Sharpshooter is one of forty character cards released in Wave 2 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], Rise of the Combiners.

:The artwork for the card is reused from the [[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]] mobile game and is based on the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Transformers: Generations]]'' Warpath figure.
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:Hardhead-in-WarpathInstructions.jpg|thumb|]]
*Warpath had the preliminary name of '''[[Hot Shot (disambiguation)|Hot Shot]]'''.
*The cartoon had a variety of ways to depict Warpath's face when he talked. In [[Toei Animation|Toei]]'s episodes, the three small slats on either side of his faceplate would light up and pulse in sync with his dialogue, in a fashion similar to Wheeljack's "ears". In the single episode of season 2 in which he appeared animated by the [[unknown Generation 1 animation studios|unknown studio]], "[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]", his mouthpiece didn't light up, but did occasionally jiggle up and down in the more traditional manner, like Optimus Prime's. For season three, [[AKOM]], of course, didn't bother their butts doing ''either'' of those things, and Warpath's face didn't move when he spoke.
*''Generations'' Warpath's instructions, like many from the time, feature an alternate headsculpt. In this case it appears to be [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]]. In late 2013, upcoming product listings inadvertently released to the public included 'TRA GENERATIONS DLX HARDHEAD A9252', although this figure was ultimately never announced or released.<ref>[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/96540-monzos-mega-hasbro-customer-service-listing-breakdown/ Hasbro customer service listings summary] by [[User:Monzo]]</ref>
*In [[2020]], the unofficial [[Pete Sinclair|Pete]]'s Robot Convention would post the Hasbro deco sheet on Facebook, revealing that Hardhead had been planned for a [[Toys"R"Us]] USA two-pack with [[Ratbat (G1)/toys#Generations|Ratbat]].<ref>[https://www.facebook.com/PetesRoboCon/posts/1183148038695747 Facebook post by Pete's RoboCon, 22 July 2020]</ref>
{{--}}

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Warpath''' (ワーパス ''Wāpasu'', ウォーパス ''Wōpasu'')
*''French:'' '''Trajecto''' (Canada)
*''Greek:'' '''Achtýpitos''' (Αχτύπητος, "Unbeatable")
*''Hungarian:'' '''Hadiösvény''' ("Warpath")
*''Italian:'' '''Boom-Boom'''
*''Korean:'' '''Warpath''' (월패스 ''Wolpaeseu'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Zhànjǐ''' (China, 战戟, "War Halberd")
*''Portuguese:'' '''Pé de Guerra''' (Portugal comic, "Warfoot"), '''Guerreiro''' (Brazil comic, "Warrior")
*''Russian:'' '''Tomagavk''' (Томагавк, "Battleaxe")

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:3D Battle-Cards]]
[[Category:Bot Shots Autobots]]
[[Category:Classics Autobots]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Autobots]]
[[Category:Energon Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Autobots]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Henkei! Henkei! Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Kre-O Autobots]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Mail order exclusives]]
[[Category:Marvel Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Mini Vehicles]]
[[Category:Regeneration One Autobots]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game Autobots]]
[[Category:United Autobots]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Kingdom Autobots]]

Thirteen

2024-12-10T22:55:21Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Other members */ Added Nova (He's one of the 13 in EW) to the "Other Members" section.

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Prima.png|cSize=35px|cLink=Prima|cPretty=Prima}}
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|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-SolusPrime.png|cSize=25px|cLink=Solus Prime|cPretty=Solus Prime}}
|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-MicronusPrime.png|cSize=35px|cLink=Micronus Prime}}
|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-AlchemistPrime.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Alchemist Prime|cPretty=Alchemist Prime}}
|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-NexusPrime.png|cSize=35px|cLink=Nexus Prime|cPretty=Nexus Prime}}
|onyxprime
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|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Megatronus.png|cSize=40x40px|cLink=The Fallen|cPretty=Megatronus}}
|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Thirteenth.png|cSize=35px|cLink=Thirteenth Prime}}
|primus}}
{{featured}}
{{disambig3|Thirteen}}
[[File:Original13.jpg|center|upright=2.8|thumb|Guess the one on fire!]]

{{quote|We are the 13, the first, the forgotten, each of us serving a function vital to the survival of the universe. Each of us designated a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] and given a function to serve during the long march of infinity.|[[Vector Prime]]|"[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]"}}

The '''Thirteen''' are the first [[Transformer]]s created by [[Primus]]. Rightfully huge and powerful, each was designated a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]],<ref>A Hasbro Q&A response would later try to alter this. See Notes above.</ref> and given unique roles and natures to battle Primus's ancient foe [[Unicron]].

==Conceptual history==
[[File:BW Covenant.jpg|left|thumb|The [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]] shares the same base concept with the Thirteen, and served as the prototype for them.]]
The concept of the Thirteen wasn't introduced until around 20 years into the ''Transformers'' brand's history, and the slow drip-feeding of information that characterized the early stages of their story has not been presented in a very linear manner. The development of the concept is described in this section to minimize confusion; for details of their history and actions in specific bits of fiction, see below.

The very earliest seeds of the Thirteen can be found in material produced by [[3H Productions]] for [[BotCon]], most notably 1999's "[[Covenant (story)|Covenant]]". Written by [[Simon Furman]], this story introduces the undeniably similar concept of the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]], a group of twelve zodiac-themed robots who are the first creations of [[Primus]], created as a test-run for the Transformer race. Despite the basic similarity between the Covenant and the Thirteen, there was no canonical connection between the two groups, aside from an ambiguous [[Ask Vector Prime]] entry published much later in 2015, which presented several different interpretations of how the groups might be related. Certainly, those same stories by 3H were incompatible with later lore of the Thirteen, as they introduced [[Primon]], a Matrix-bearer who preceded [[Prima]].

[[File:Vectorprimeut.jpg|thumb|[[Vector Prime]] was a prominent member of the Thirteen.]]

It was in the pages of 2004's ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]'' that the mysterious "Thirteen Original Transformers" were first spoken of, and their basic origin was laid down: they were the first Transformers created by Primus to battle Unicron, and their number included Prima, the first [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]]-bearer from the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel Comics series]]; [[The Fallen]], an enigmatic servant of Unicron from [[Dreamwave Productions]]' 2003 comic, ''[[Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages]]''; and the [[Liege Maximo]], an ancient evil [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronian]] from the [[Transformers: Generation 2 (Marvel)|''Generation 2'' comics]] (whose implied status as one of the first Transformers had previously been affirmed only in Furman's unofficial novella, ''[[Alignment]]''). The book also contained a passing mention that the enigmatic [[Maccadam|manager]] of [[Maccadam's Old Oil House]], a Cybertronian pub introduced in the UK Generation 1 Marvel Comics, was rumored to be one of the Thirteen (though it also admits that this could be a fabrication by the pub's drunken patrons). Not surprisingly, it was the creator of all four of these characters—the aforementioned Simon Furman—who both wrote the guide and conceived the idea of the Thirteen,<ref>Simon Furman panel, BotCon 2012</ref> recycling the same general idea behind the Covenant.<ref>Simon Furman at BotCon 2022.</ref>

[[File:ThirteenAaronArcherSketch.jpg|thumb|The roster of the Thirteen was not established from the outset.]]

The concept of the Thirteen quietly bubbled under for the next year, until another element was added with the introduction of [[Vector Prime]] in 2005's ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' series. Created by lead Hasbro designer [[Aaron Archer]], Vector Prime was given a clockwork aesthetic to signify his old age and mastery over time itself, with his face evoking the [[Autobot]] sigil. While the original Japanese version of the ''Cybertron'' cartoon would simply treat him as a very ancient Autobot, Hasbro copywriter [[Forest Lee]] would canonise him as one of the Thirteen in [[Vector Prime: In the Beginning|the first story]] produced for the [[Transformers Collectors' Club]]. This story also introduced the idea that all of the Thirteen were [[Prime (rank)|Primes]], and that each had a specific function or purpose; Vector Prime's was stewardship of time, while a 2007 [[bio]] written for The Fallen's ''[[Titanium Series]]'' toy would later reveal he was the overseer of entropy.

[[File:NexusPrimeflankedbyotherPrimes.jpg|left|thumb|Fun Publications also introduced the first [[combiner]], [[Nexus Prime]].]]

While it was not immediately apparent, Hasbro had put a plan in motion for the Thirteen with the Collectors' Club comic: across the next five years, five separate robots were introduced who were gradually revealed to be components of the very first combiner, Nexus Prime, who was one of the Thirteen. Behind the scenes, Aaron Archer developed the remaining roster of the Thirteen, carrying forward Prima, The Fallen (whose true name became Megatronus), Liege Maximo, and Vector Prime, and adding [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the Autobot elder from [[The Transformers (cartoon)|the original cartoon]]. The new members he introduced were intended to embody different kinds of Transformers: [[Onyx Prime]] (at first named simply "Maximus", after the [[Maximal]]s) represented the beasts, [[Micronus Prime|Micronus]] was the progenitor of the [[Mini-Con]]s, [[Quintus Prime|Quintus]] was tied to the [[Quintesson]]s, with a Japan-inspired "trickster", a female "forger" ([[Solus Prime]]), and an "elemental" proto-Transformer filling out the group.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Really we were trying to create a representation of each of the classic Transformer forms. So as I was creating the Thirteen, some had been figured out, right? So Megatronus I think, Liege Maximo, Alpha Trion I believe were already named characters... but then I tried to figure out how to bring the concept of beasts and combiners [and the Mini-Cons] and different elements into the concept, so that you had the whole pantheon of gods, different shapes and sizes and whatnot. So I went through and I drew kind of visions of what they could be. So this is not trying to figure the character out, but get the vibe of what the character was about, other talented people would come in behind me and do that. So there's like the idea that—why did the Quintessons think that they might have made the Transformers? Well they come from the guy that was like the Johnny Appleseed, or the character that seeded some of the planets, so they were confused... try to shore up some of these ideas for the Aligned continuity, right? Here's an elemental kind of concept, gears and metal and magnetism, kind of a proto-Transformer, kind of weird thing. [...] Here's another weird version of Megatronus, how big he is compared to like what Megatron would have been.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQLQ4VzuCGA&t=689s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=Toy Armada Friday night LIVE: Creating characters and lore|year=2023|month=05|day=26}}</ref> While most of these are recognisable in the final roster, it appears that the design from the "elemental" was given to the "trickster" character, resulting in [[Amalgamous Prime]], while [[Alchemist Prime]] took over as the Prime of matter. Additionally, [[The Arisen|one member]] of the group would remain a mystery.

While these plans developed, Japanese writer [[Hirofumi Ichikawa]] introduced the character of [[Logos Prime]] in the 2006 text story ''[[Beast Wars Reborn]]'', alluding to the idea that he was one of the Thirteen. Working independently from Hasbro, Ichikawa evidently didn't think it would be appropriate to explicitly declare that Logos Prime was one of the Thirteen,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Vector PrimeとThe Fallen以外の人影は全く誰のことも想定していません。ファンの方々は「1人はLogos Primeだ」と推察していますが、それも間違いです（彼を勝手に13人とするのは図々しく不適当と感じたので、そうしたくなかった）。満足いく答えではないかも知れませんが、これが本当のところです。🙇‍♂️|link=https://twitter.com/Hirovmi/status/1627056614024036352|name=Hirofumi Ichikawa|site=Twitter|year=2023|month=02|day=18}}</ref> but a silhouette matching Logos appeared in a lineup of the Thirteen from Ichikawa's "[[World of the Transformers]]" website (as seen at the top of this page), all but confirming the idea in the minds of fans. During this time, most of the information on the Thirteen came from Q&A sessions with Hasbro representatives at BotCon—where it was established that the Thirteen were [[multiversal singularity|multiversal singularities]], a concept which purported that across all the different [[universal stream]]s, only one incarnation of each of the Thirteen existed, moving between worlds. This idea would later be canonized within the pages of Fun Publications' comics. The full story of the Thirteen was to be told in a comic book mini-series by [[IDW Publishing]], written by Simon Furman, but after numerous teases the plans were eventually nixed while Hasbro worked out what they wanted to do with the characters.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=The Thirteen is probably not going to happen for a while, as it’s become more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing, and Hasbro need to crystallise the whole concept before it can be turned into a comic book. I think and hope it will still happen, as it’s a story I’d dearly love to tell, but I have no firm grasp or when or in what form it will eventually see print.|link=http://web.archive.org/web/20110612025753/https://hombreimaginario.deviantart.com/art/Interviews-10-Simon-Furman-130246343|name=Simon Furman|site=deviantART|year=2009|month=07|day=20}}</ref> Hasbro's desire to control and fully conceptualize the story of the Thirteen was further made evident when, after [[Fun Publications]]' Nexus Prime story concluded in the same year, they effectively took "custody" of the character as part of their future plans. This control, however, was evidently not all-encompassing: also in 2009, The Fallen made a surprising appearance as the titular villain of the second-live action Transformers film, ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'', where he was a member not of a group of thirteen, but only ''seven'' Primes. Hasbro's [[Hasbro Q&A/October 2009#AllSpark.com|October 2009 online Q&A]] retroactively justified this by explaining that while all the Thirteen were Primes, only seven actually had the word "Prime" ''in their names''.

[[File:TransformersVault-Prima.jpg|thumb|The new design for [[Prima]] was revealed at [[BotCon 2010]].]]

Eventually, in 2010, the grand scope of the new [[Aligned continuity family]] became the "delivery method" for Hasbro's long-percolating tale of the Thirteen. However, the "Aligned" continuity was also established to ''not'' be part of the multiverse in which all preceding Transformers fiction took place, which until then had lain the groundwork for the Thirteen. As such, the new information introduced by the Aligned continuity was only true for ''that'' continuity, resulting in some incongruities: the surprise inclusion of [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]], the inevitable omission of Logos Prime, and a revised backstory for The Fallen that removed any connection he had to Unicron. From 2010 to 2013, various pieces of Aligned media—including the novels ''[[Transformers: Exodus]]'' and ''[[Transformers: Exiles]]'', the ''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|Transformers: Prime]]'' cartoon, and the prose work ''[[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus]]''—finally detailed in full the complete roster and history of the Thirteen in the Aligned Continuity, which can all be read about further down this article.

In spite of the metaphysical complexities that had built up with the lore surrounding the Transformers multiverse and its singularities, Hasbro's Aligned roster for the Thirteen has pretty much served as the basis of every story they've appeared in since. In 2014, they were introduced to IDW Publishing's long-running continuity, receiving a whole new backstory beginning with [[The Crucible|''Robots in Disguise'' #34]]. Fun Publications would work to massage the continuity implications this had for the rest of the multiverse: Ask Vector Prime revealed that non-singularity versions of the Thirteen also exist within the multiverse (with the "Aligned Thirteen" being one such example) and finally established their own complete roster for the "Multiverse Thirteen", before the 2015 Collectors' Club comic storyline ''[[Another Light]]'' culminated in the Thirteen's existence as multiversal singularities being nullified entirely. Freed from the complex bounds of this concept, the story of the Thirteen is now free to be told any way, in any continuity.
{{--}}

==Members==
Because of their complicated fictional natures, conceptual histories, and status as multiversal "archetypes", {{SITENAME SHORT}} opts to break our standard rules a little and give most members of the group a single article that covers all different versions of that character, as opposed to separate articles (G1, Unicron Trilogy, Movie, etc...) for each incarnation.

===Covenant Thirteen===
[[File:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|thumb|325px|"No, Harry, no! Don't look at the light!"]]
The first full lineup of the Thirteen was originally formalized for the [[Aligned continuity family]], and properly revealed in ''[[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus]]''. The "Aligned Thirteen" were initially considered to be separate from the "Multiverse Thirteen", something backed up in fiction which described their [[universal stream|universal cluster]] as being previously separate from the multiverse, but the core list has since propagated far beyond the bounds of Aligned media into such places as the [[2005 IDW continuity]], the ''[[Transformers: Cyberverse (cartoon)|Cyberverse]]'' cartoon, and even the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' toyline.

<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-pr1|'''[[Prima]]'''—The leader of the Thirteen, a warrior of light and the first [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix-bearer]] who wielded the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]].}}
{{Bp-pr2|'''[[Vector Prime]]'''—The master of time and space, which he could manipulate through his [[Blades of Time]].}}
{{Bp-pr3|'''[[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]]'''—Holder of the [[Quill]], which he uses to record the past, present, and future of Cybertron in the [[Covenant of Primus]] as part of his role as recordskeeper of the Primes.}}
{{Bp-pr4|'''[[Solus Prime]]'''—The master artificer and creator of many of the Primes' weapons through use of her incredible [[Forge of Solus Prime|Forge]]. She was the first [[female Transformer|female Cybertronian]].}}
{{Bp-pr5|'''[[Micronus Prime]]'''—The conscience of the Thirteen, and the first [[Mini-Con]], able to [[Powerlinx|link up with and enhance the power]] of his siblings through the use of his [[Chimera Stone]]; responsible for creating the alternate dimension of [[Microspace]].}}
{{Bp-pr6|'''[[Alchemist Prime]]'''—Student of the elemental structure of the natural world, aided in this by his [[Lenses]], which allowed him to see further and deeper than anyone, in both material and spiritual senses; fond of the occasional tipple, with some claiming that he still walks Cybertron in the form of [[Maccadam|a humble bartender]].}}
{{Bp-pr7|'''[[Nexus Prime]]'''—The first and greatest [[combiner]], granted the ability to divide himself into separate forms by his [[Enigma of Combination]]. Unpredictable, fascinated by change, and a lighthearted prankster.}}
{{Bp-pr8|'''[[Onyx Prime]]'''—The first beast-form Cybertronian, a primitive and spiritual being able to view other times, places, souls, and even the afterlife through his three-faced [[Triptych Mask]].}}
{{Bp-pr9|'''[[Amalgamous Prime]]'''—The joker of the Thirteen and the first [[Shifter]], unpredictable and easygoing. He was first Cybertronian with the ability of [[transformation]], granted him by his [[Transformation cog]], which became the basis for the cogs in all subsequent Transformer life.}}
{{Bp-pr10|'''[[Quintus Prime]]'''—A daydreamer and perfectionist whose drive to express his ideas led him to become a scientist. His artifact was the [[Emberstone]], which gave him the ability to create life; the [[Quintesson]]s were among his creations.}}
{{Bp-pr11|'''[[Liege Maximo]]'''—The "Prime of Lies", a black-hearted and amoral manipulator. Though his artifact was notionally the toxin-loaded [[Liegian Darts]], his real skill was his ability to talk others into his way of thinking.}}
{{Bp-pr12|'''[[The Fallen]]'''—Once known as '''Megatronus''', guardian of entropy and wielder of the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]], the Fallen's name was stricken from history when the dark warrior turned on his siblings.}}
{{Bp-pr13|'''The [[Thirteenth Prime]]'''— the last and most mysterious of the Thirteen, all we can say for certain is that he bore a strong connection to the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and his depictions look [[Optimus Prime (disambiguation)|awfully familiar...]]}}</ul>

===Multiversal Thirteen===
[[File:AnotherLight-Thirteen.jpg|thumb|325px|Who are we? You'll never know!]]
Though the "multiversal Thirteen"—considered separate to the "Aligned Thirteen"—had almost half of their members revealed before any non-multiversal incarnation was ever mentioned, the remainder of their membership was unknown until a [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#ThirteenList|June 2015 Facebook post]] from [[Ask Vector Prime]] listed off twelve of Vector Prime's siblings. The members known before then were:
*'''[[Prima]]'''—The first [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix-bearer]] and first Transformer born from [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], the leader of the Thirteen.<ref>''Sentinel Prime was one of a dynasty of Primes, stretching back to the original '''13 Transformers''' and their leader, Prima.''—''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]'' (2005) 1st ed p15, "Sentinel Prime"</ref> He wielded the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]], a mighty blade capable of unparalleled destruction.
*'''[[Liege Maximo]]'''—A legendary schemer.<ref name="askvectorprime">[[Ask Vector Prime]] on Facebook</ref>
*'''[[The Fallen|Megatronus]]'''—Formerly the guardian of entropy, whose name was stricken from history when he betrayed his brothers and became a [[Herald of Unicron]] under the new name "'''The Fallen'''".<ref>''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]''</ref>
*'''[[Vector Prime]]'''—The guardian of space and time, who spent most of his life outside of reality, observing it and occasionally stepping in to help.
*'''[[Logos Prime]]'''—An enigmatic figure who, operating in the present day under the new name Soundblaster, sought to pass on his incredible powers over time and space to an heir.
*'''[[Nexus Prime]]'''—The first combiner and the guardian of [[Rarified Energon]].

To these Vector Prime added four of the ones invented by the Covenant:

*'''[[Alchemist Prime]]'''—Rumored to have established [[Maccadam's Old Oil House|a bar]] on modern Cybertron, seeking to provide a respite from endless war.<ref name="askvectorprime"/><ref>In [[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|''The Ultimate Guide'']], the enigmatic [[Maccadam]] was rumored to be a member of the Thirteen by drunken patrons of his bar. Vector Prime would later half-jokingly imply that Alchemist Prime and Maccadam were the same individual, as described above. There's nothing that explicitly ''says'' they're the same, but... you know.</ref>
*'''[[Solus Prime]]'''—A renowned smith who wielded a powerful [[Forge of Solus Prime|Forge]].<ref name="askvectorprime"/>
*'''[[Micronus Prime]]'''—The progenitor of the [[Mini-Con]]s.<ref>[[Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist]]</ref>
*'''[[Onyx Prime]]'''—In-tune with nature and the organic.<ref name="askvectorprime"/>

And three other powerful figures from "Transformers" lore:

*'''[[Last Autobot|Autonomous Maximus]]'''—A lonely sentinel who renounced his name, becoming simply known as the Last Autobot.
*'''[[Solomus]]'''—A gentle and kind individual, who is instead in some universes a member of the [[Guiding Hand]].
*'''[[Epistemus]]'''—A Cybertronian of unconventional intellect, also sometimes of the Guiding Hand.

===Other members===
Particularly following the Shroud, certain realities include entirely different lineups of the Thirteen, which have included:
*'''[[Adaptus]]'''—Blessed with powers of change, ''also'' sometimes of the Guiding Hand; may or may not in some universes be the same individual as Amalgamous Prime.
*'''[[Mortilus]]'''—A solitary member of the Thirteen who stayed apart from the others, who was in some universes a member of the Guiding Hand.
*'''[[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]'''—A Prime known for his wisdom.<ref>''[[Transformers: Titans Return (cartoon)|Transformers: Titans Return]]'' episode 4, "[[Overlord and Emissary]]"</ref>
*'''[[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]]'''—A Prime that in some universes takes the role as leader and first Matrix-bearer from Prima.<ref>''[[Transformers One (film)|Transformers One]]''</ref>
*'''[[Nova Prime]]'''—A Prime who believes that Cybertronians are the rightful superiors of the universe, with all others being lesser.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 continuity family===
====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====
[[File:Thefallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|No, seriously guys, is it just me, or is it hot in here?]]

[[The Fallen]] was thwarted in his attempt to sabotage [[Primus]]'s [[Cybertron (planet)|physical form]], and the rest of the Thirteen died after casting the Fallen and his master [[Unicron]] through a [[black hole]] into another dimension. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|The Ultimate Guide}}

After [[Optimus Prime (G1)#Dreamwave Generation One continuity|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)#Dreamwave Generation One continuity|Megatron]] were lost in a [[space bridge]] explosion, the Fallen was free from his prison in [[unspace|underspace]], and returned to Cybertron. He immediately set about trying to undo the [[Seal of Primus]] that locked the Well of All Sparks. However, upon his success, the Fallen was promptly destroyed by his reawoken creator. {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|The Dark Ages}}

{{Unreleased DW G1 comic}}
In the present day, Jetfire discovered that Shockwave had broken the Seal for his cloning experiments. The Fallen's essence escaped and corrupted [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]], and following his death, passed into Jetfire. This corruption caused Jetfire to be plagued by many visions, among them The Fallen beating down his brethren in an ancient battle. {{storylink|The Enemy Within}}

'''Known members:'''
*[[Prima]]
*[[The Fallen]]
*[[Maccadam]] (rumored)

{{--}}

====''Beast Wars Reborn''====
[[File:Bwreborn text.jpg|thumb|[https://youtu.be/Q_Dfxbx-1Hs?si=_eWbG-7Xye0xjcY3&t=40|'''Vector Prime''': Oh. It's you. Dear me. Haven't seen you since... the flood? '''Logos Prime''': Uhhh... yeah.]]]
The '''Ancients''' (エンシェント ''Enshento'') were the original clan of Transformers created by Primus before he became [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], and possessed extraordinary powers over space and time. One of them, [[Logos Prime]], lost sight of his objective and memory of him faded away. {{Storylink|Planetfall (BWR)|Planetfall}} He would return under the name of Soundblaster, abducting [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]] so he could apparently appoint Megatron as his successor. [[Vector Prime]] was sent by Primus to stop the plot and was taken aback when confronted with his fellow Ancient who he thought lost. {{Storylink|Master of the Game}} While Vector Prime and what remained of Logos Prime fought on the astral plane, Soundblaster revealed the [[Zeonomicon]], the key to his power, and had Optimus and Megatron hunt it down on [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Animatron]] to decide who would inherit his power. {{storylink|Planetfall (BWR)|Planetfall}}

'''Known members:'''
*[[Vector Prime]]
*[[Logos Prime]]

{{--}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
[[File:Heavy-TheThirteen.jpg|thumb|left|350px|"I think the Thirteen were blurry, that's the problem. It's not the artist's fault. The Primes were blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There were thirteen large, out-of-focus Transformers roaming Cybertron."]]
After the departure of the mythical [[Knights of Cybertron]], Cybertronian civilization, deprived of their benevolent guidance, descended once more into a primitive state of barbarism, with lesser tribal leaders carving out kingdoms and territories of their own. It was to this landscape that the [[Decepticon]] [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] was cast back in time by the destruction of his [[chronal drive]], and—after an encounter with a kindly shepherd named [[Onyx Prime|Onyx]]—realised from his extensive historical foreknowledge that he could study why Cybertronians inevitably fell to war by ensuring that history followed the path he knew that it must. As such, Shockwave murdered Onyx and took his identity as "Onyx Prime" in order to engineer the rise of the Thirteen Primes; his first act was to christen the most fearless member of Onyx's flock as "[[The Fallen|Megatronus]]", taking him on as a student.

Knowing that Megatronus's conquests would be the impetus for the founding of Cybertronian civilization, Shockwave allowed his pupil to run amok; {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Megatronus thus began a new war of conquest to expand the [[Darklands]], annexing nearby regions such as the city of [[Protihex|Protohex]] and the [[Forgotten Plains]], murdering neighbouring ruler [[Septimus Prime]] and recruiting the fearsome twin [[gladiatorial combat|gladiators]] [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] and [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] to become his vanguards. Other tribal leaders who had arisen, including [[Alchemist Prime]], [[Vector Prime]], [[Solus Prime]], [[Nexus Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], agreed in the face of Megatronus's conquests to work together, uniting their followers and founding a small village that they named "[[Crystal City]]." {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

[[File:OP18 Thirteen in Crystal City.jpg|thumb|right|375px|Ruling from an ivory tower. What could possibly go wrong?]]

While Megatronus's legions marched on Crystal City, the united Primes were bolstered by Onyx Prime and his ''other'' student, [[Liege Maximo]], {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} whose kingdom had been claimed by the Darklander advance. The two armies met in a battle that had the unexpected side effect of awakening three slumbering [[Titan (group)|Titan]]s—[[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]], and [[Chela]]—from beneath Cybertron's surface, but while the armies were distracted by the arrival of the colossal beings, Onyx "realized" that their enemy was his "old friend" Megatronus. The two armies agreed to a truce, and all eight Primes vowed to work together to rebuild and unify their planet. Having been enlightened on the value of myths and stories by Alpha Trion, Onyx Prime began telling tales of his own, inspiring Alchemist with legends of a "Chosen One" and dreaming up a new [[Autobot|insignia]] to commemorate their alliance—{{storylink|Origin Myths}} all, of course, based on his own knowledge of what the future held. The [[Dark Cybertron (prophecy)|"Dark Cybertron" prophecy]] and idea of the Chosen One were specifically concocted to ensure [[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]]'s future rise to power, as a "fool" like Starscream would not be able to see through Shockwave's machinations. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 4: The Hallowing|The Hallowing}}

The eight original Primes were soon joined by five more, and over time Cybertron's inhabitants united under the banner of the [[Thirteen Tribes]], each Prime building a distinct civilization. {{storylink|The Crucible}} In this era of peace, the Liege Maximo was responsible for building and maintaining the alliance between the Thirteen; in honor of his feats, Liege Maximo's followers became known as skilled diplomats and negotiators. {{storylink|Heavy}} Each Prime commanded the loyalty of at least one [[Titan (group)|Titan]], {{storylink|The Sum and Its Parts}} {{storylink|First Contact (IDW)|First Contact}} while the diminutive [[Titan Master]]s served as their heralds. {{storylink|White Heat}} Over the years, however, the decidedly mortal Primes had come to believe that they were inherently superior to other Cybertronians due to their powerful artifacts and historic feats; indeed, it was commonly held only another Prime could kill a Prime, though this was decidedly untrue. {{storylink|Origin Myths}} {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusKillsSolus.jpg|thumb|left|350px|Sephiroth, you jerk!]]
With Cybertron now in a "golden age", Onyx advised the Thirteen's leader [[Prima]] to spread Cybertron's "enlightenment" to other worlds, with their expedition—led by Onyx and Megatronus, with Alpha Trion accompanying them as recordskeeper—being the first to leave the planet since the Knights of Cybertron. However, their first planetary landing on the world of [[Antilla]] ended in a brutal conflict and the extinction of the native [[Antillan]]s, with Prima blaming Megatronus for the expedition's failure. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Our Finest}} Liege Maximo, who (seeing helpful lies as more beneficent than harmful truths) had become increasingly manipulative and self-serving, {{storylink|Heavy}} acted on Onyx's orders to stoke Megatronus's resentment over this incident, leading him to attack Prima. Solus Prime intervened to save Prima's life, but Megatronus killed her with the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] that she had created. Megatronus fled the planet, while Liege Maximo was captured by the Primes and imprisoned within his Titan, [[Vigilem]], whom the other Titans deemed unworthy of remembrance and exiled into space. A repentant splinter of Liege Maximo's old tribe agreed to keep their former leader and his Titan permanently interred, renaming their dormant Titan "[[Vigilem|Carcer]]". {{storylink|Rubicon}} {{storylink|Heavy}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

The fallout from Maximo's betrayal sparked the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]], turning the tribes against one another in a planet-wide conflict. {{storylink|The Crucible}} Battle lines were drawn, but allegiances shifted throughout the war, necessitating betrayals and new alliances; Onyx initially allied with Micronus, {{storylink|White Heat}} but by ten million years ago, with the war drawing to a close, his tribe of [[beast mode]] Transformers had joined forces with Nexus Prime and his [[combiner]]s. Together, they raised a new army of [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] using the [[Enigma of Combination]]. Disgusted by this fusion, [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] abandoned his post in Megatronus' army to slaughter the Headmasters to the last 'bot. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}}

Together, Onyx Prime and Prima hunted down Megatronus aboard Prima's Titan [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]], finding him on the planet [[Tsiehshi]]. Megatronus killed Prima before being slain by Onyx, his usefulness to Shockwave's machinations at an end; Emissary carried Prima's body to the stars, but Onyx ensured that he would crash on [[Elonia|a faraway planet]]. On returning, Onyx told Alpha Trion that Megatronus and Prima slew each other in final battle—the account of their deaths that he had learned from Trion in his youth. Megatronus's name was soon forgotten by history, and he became known only as "the Fallen". {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

Eventually, Galvatron tracked down and confronted Nexus Prime, obliterating the Prime with a single blast. Realizing that they were as mortal as any other Transformer, the remaining few Primes fled the planet for other worlds, with the exception of Alpha Trion. The war finally ended when Galvatron and [[Nova Prime|Nova Major]] famously routed the bestial hordes of [[Onyx Prime]] and, with Trion's aid and blessing, united the tribes as one planet under Nova '''Prime'''. Only Galvatron and Trion were left aware of what had happened to the Thirteen Primes; Alpha Trion simply let himself fade into the background of Cybertronian society, his true background as a Prime forgotten by the general populace. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

One way or another, the Thirteen departed Cybertron and vanished from history at around the same time that the thirteen Titans departed Cybertron, with the intent of founding new colonies elsewhere in the galaxy. {{storylink|First Contact (IDW)|First Contact}} Exact details are unclear, but the mythologies of several of these colony planets claim that the Primes, including [[Solus Prime]] and [[Onyx Prime]], had spearheaded the colonization missions themselves and subsequently left these newly settled worlds to their own devices. {{storylink|The Sum and Its Parts}} {{storylink|Windblade vol. 2 issue 6|Windblade vol. 2 #6}} Either way, the developing civilizations on the colony worlds – cut off from Cybertron and the brutal injustices committed by Nova Prime and [[Nominus Prime|his]] [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|dubious]] [[Zeta Prime (G1)|successors]] – began deifying the Thirteen Primes, with some going so far as to worship any leader who wielded the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. The [[Way of Flame|dominant religion]] on [[Caminus (planet)|Caminus]] exalted Solus Prime as the greatest of the Thirteen, {{storylink|The Sum and Its Parts}} while the four tribes of [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Eukaris]] and their prophet [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] viewed Onyx Prime as a benevolent protector. {{storylink|Windblade vol. 2 issue 6|Windblade vol. 2 #6}}

The role that the original Primes had played in the establishment of Cybertronian society would eventually be immortalized on the silver screen in the "hella-racist" film, ''[[The Birth of Cybertron]]''. {{storylink|New Cybertron Part 4: Dance Among the Shadows|Dance Among the Shadows}} {{storylink|Starscream: The Movie (comic)|Starscream: The Movie}}

[[Micronus Prime]], master of [[Prion (Titan)|Prion]], {{storylink|White Heat}} was known to have abandoned his native universe entirely after founding a colony of [[Mini-Con]]s. By the present day, his body lay dormant in the center of an alternate universe: the subatomic realm of [[Microspace]]. {{storylink|O Ship of State}} The ruler of Microspace, [[Baron Karza]] eventually [[enerchange]]d with Micronus and used the Prime's power to try and conquer the Earth, {{storylink|Wrath of Karza issue 1|Wrath of Karza #1}} only for [[Shazraella]] to use [[Time Traveler]] energy to separate the Prime from her husband and banish the Mini-Con through time. {{storylink|Wrath of Karza issue 5|Wrath of Karza #5}}

[[File:GhostStories-onyxprime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"Stand and address your Almighty Tallest, Camien child."]]

The colony of Caminus detected a Cybertronian beacon emanating from the planet [[Antilla]] and sent three representatives to make contact with their ancestors. When they arrived, they found the planet to be a rusted wasteland ruled by Onyx Prime, who murdered [[Magrada]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Following the expedition's return to Caminus, the [[Torchbearer]] [[Pyra Magna]] encountered Onyx Prime when an army of robotic beasts terrorized the inhabitants of [[Parvus Oppidum]] so they could retrieve a sample of [[Ore-4]]. The experience left her traumatized, but with time she realized that the Primes were not the divine entities that she had believed them to be and began preparing to take up arms against Primes should the need arise. {{storylink|Ghost Stories}} {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 6: Unforgivable|Unforgivable}}

In the modern day, [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] unknowingly sent the [[Regenesis]] ores off to what he believed were random suitable worlds, but were, thanks to his future self's time-travelling manipulations, worlds touched by the Thirteen. {{storylink|The Crucible}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

When Cybertron re-opened a [[space bridge|spacebridge]] link with Caminus after years of isolation, the [[Mistress of Flame]] believed that Optimus, wielding the Matrix of Leadership, was the legendary reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime: a mysterious figure from Cybertron's past known as "[[the Arisen]]". {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 3: The Medium and the Message|The Medium and the Message}} Optimus's supposed divinity proved a double-edged sword as he grew increasingly bold and unilateral in his decision making; leaning on the faith of others to unconditionally support his choices, he wound up annexing Earth into the [[Council of Worlds]] and sparking an interplanetary diplomatic crisis. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 1: Once Upon a Time on Earth|Once Upon a Time on Earth}} [[Colonist Soldiers|New recruits]] from Caminus, Eukaris, [[Velocitron]], and [[Devisiun (planet)|Devisiun]] believed wholeheartedly in Optimus's status as one of the Thirteen and began wearing [[mouthplate]]s to better emulate their leader. {{storylink|New Cybertron Part 1: To Walk Among the Chosen|To Walk Among the Chosen}}

Liege Maximo escaped from his imprisonment in Carcer in 2017, following a [[zombie]] Titan invasion on Cybertron. {{storylink|Rubicon}} The Camien [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] was released from prison by Cybertron's leader Starscream to hunt Maximo down, {{storylink|Heavy}} {{storylink|The Chosen One}} but Liege—who, by this point, had come to understand his master's decision to exile him aboard his loyal Titan—was found by Onyx, and brought with him in chains on his return to Cybertron. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Liege was taken into custody while Optimus and the [[Council of Worlds]] entered negotiations with Onyx, but the Prime's manipulations caused infighting and chaos, as well as an explosion that killed Alpha Trion. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 2: Another Mine|Another Mine}} With all of his plans falling into place, Shockwave discarded his "Onyx" identity, having no further use for it after he cast Optimus into the Crystal City singularity. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 4: The Hallowing|The Hallowing}}

Though Maximo soon perished and Shockwave was taken prisoner, the Decepticon's machinations had forced all of Cybertron accept a bitter truth: the Thirteen had been nothing more than ordinary Cybertronians. Upon hearing [[Pyra Magna]] vocalize this, Shockwave claimed this acceptance had been part of his plan to render all faiths and beliefs on Cybertron meaningless in preparation for [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]]'s arrival. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 6: Unforgivable|Unforgivable}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''
{{--}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' continuity====
=====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material=====
[[File:Throne of Primes Thirteen.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.0|Before time began, there was just a whole mess of cubes.]]
The [[spark]]s of the original Primes were carried by the [[Prime Master]]s, diminutive Transformers who, when in spark mode, could unite with larger Transformers to grant them [[Prime Master/Combinations|the powers of the Primes]] to wield as they choose. To minimise unwanted attention from those who sought the power they held, the Prime Masters hid themselves inside special decoy armor, which cloaked their vast power from the outside world.

Rather than a Prime Master, the role of the Thirteenth Prime was held by whoever currently bore the [[Matrix of Leadership]].<ref name="POTPMatrix">Comments made by Hasbro representatives at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2017.</ref> The Thirteenth Prime was, however, made into a Prime Master too, transforming into a core resembling the Matrix of Leadership.

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''

=====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoon=====
The combined knowledge of the Thirteen was hidden away in the [[Athenaeum Sanctorum]]. In the wake of [[Solus Prime]]'s death at [[The Fallen|Megatronus]]'s hands, the remaining members chose to seal away the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]] in [[Primal Swamp]], tasking a series of guardians with protecting it that culminated in [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]]. {{storylink|Athenaeum Sanctorum (episode)|Athenaeum Sanctorum}}

During a crisis, the [[Mistress of Flame]] prayed to Primus and the Thirteen for spiritual guidance and aid. {{storylink|Overlord and Emissary}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Prima]]
*[[The Fallen|Megatronus]]
*[[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]]
*[[Vector Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo]]
*[[Onyx Prime]]
*[[Micronus Prime|Micronus]]
*[[Quintus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]
}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
[[File:EndOfTime-Thirteen.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Prima and Megatronus, surprisingly ''not'' at each other's throats in this universe. Also, Liege Maximo in the background?]]
The Thirteen Primes were said to have lived in the [[Age of Primes]], before they vanished. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}} [[Termagax]] considered them to be metaphors, avatars, or an expression of the life pattern that made up Cybertron itself, {{storylink|End of Time}} even postulating that the Thirteen might have been fabricated by the early Cybertronians to explain the origins of their [[Artifacts of the Primes|fourteen artifacts]]. Out of all these artifacts, only the Matrix of Leadership and the Enigma of Combination had been seen following the Primes' disappearance. {{storylink|Lord of Misrule: Sea of Rust I|Sea of Rust I}}

The Age of Primes gave way to the [[Age of the Firstforged]]. This new generation of Cybertron emerged from the [[Ur-Forge]] of Solus Prime. {{storylink|End of Time}} Though their time had passed, some of the Primes who had not fallen or departed lingered among the [[Firstforged]]. Legend said that Solus Prime and Alchemist Prime received [[Solomus]] to hear his plans for [[Crystal City]], and contributed to its construction. {{storylink|A Dust of Crystals}}

When forced to take [[Lodestar (Titan)|Lodestar]] on an almost certainly suicidal mission against a crazed [[Vigilem]], [[Lightbright (G1)|Lightbright]] prayed that the Thirteen would see the two through their task. {{storylink|The Change In Your Nature Part Five}}

Legends of the Thirteenth Prime, the final bearer of the Matrix, persisted into the present day, and how they would one day claim it. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''

{{note|Though the Thirteen's membership in this timeline is based off the "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]", only ten of the group's members were identified before the continuity came to a close. Of the missing three, the [[Transformation cog]] of [[Amalgamous Prime]] and the [[Triptych Mask]] of [[Onyx Prime]] were mentioned by Termagax and while [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] appeared, there was no explicit confirmation, or rejection, that he was one of the Thirteen. Though he ''does'' appear in a stained-glass mural alongside other members of the Thirteen in [[The Cracks Beneath Your Feet Part Five|issue #11]].}}
{{--}}

====''End of G1 Universe''====
[[File:End of G1 Universe Thirteen Circle.jpg|thumb|right|300px|The [[Halo of Primus|Halo]] of [[Mortilus]], more like.]]
When the universe itself began to die, [[Vector Sigma]] dispatched the young Maximal [[Blue Bolts (RID)|Bluebolt]] to [[Earth]] under orders to revive the greatest of their number, [[Lio Convoy|Leo Prime]], using a ritual circle marked with the symbols of the Primes to infuse his corpse with the dregs of [[Unicron]]'s [[Angolmois Energy]]. {{Storylink|Dark Amber Leo Prime#Masterpiece|Dark Amber Leo Prime bio}} This ''sort of'' worked, birthing the infernal antihero [[Dark Amber Leo Prime]]. {{Storylink|Dark Amber Leo Prime (First)}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''
{{--}}

===Fun Publications===
[[Vector Prime]] aided the [[Autobot]]s in finding the [[Cyber Planet Key]]s to close the [[Unicron Singularity]]. He regularly reported their progress to [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|Alpha Trion]], but during one visit Unicron's servants [[Ramjet (Universe)|Ramjet]] and [[Nemesis Prime (Universe)|Nemesis Prime]] attacked. {{storylink|Balancing Act}} [[Skyfall (Cybertron)|Skyfall]] came to Cybertron looking for clues to his past, only to be attacked by [[Scorponok (Energon)|Dark Scorponok]], {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 2}} but his forcefield protected him. Ramjet offered him clues to his past in exchange for his <s>soul</s> service. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 3}} They went to Primus's spark core to destroy him with the [[Dead Matrix]], but Vector and [[Sentinel Maximus]] fought back. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 4}} Ramjet said he would stop trying to kill Primus if Vector aided them in restoring the balance by resurrecting Unicron, but he refused. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Pt 5}} Skyfall tried to save Ramjet but his forcefield only ignited an explosion that killed Ramjet. {{storylink|Revelations Part 1}} Vector had drones repair Skyfall and found [[Omega Prime]]—the creation of one of Trion's [[Viron]] counterparts—had helped Sentinel defeated Nemesis. Omega's presence saddened Vector, as it confirmed the multiverse was falling apart, and he left for Earth. {{storylink|Revelations Part 2}}

Skyfall was helping Sentinel repair [[Vector Sigma]], when [[Over-Run (Armada)|Over-Run]] informed him he had found a twenty-million-cycle-old carving of him and another bot. {{storylink|Revelations Part 4}} Immediately during a battle between [[Mini-Con]] Autobots and [[Decepticon]]s, Skyfall found [[Landquake (Timelines)|Landquake]]. {{storylink|Revelations Part 5}} The two seemingly vanished when Unicron attacked, {{storylink|Revelations Part 6}} when they had been transported to [[Breakaway (Classics)|Breakaway]]'s universe, {{storylink|Crossing Over, Part 1}} and the trio and went through a [[space bridge]] {{storylink|Crossing Over: Part 6}} to find [[Topspin (Classics)|Topspin]] in [[Axiom Nexus]]. [[Cheetor (TransTech)|Cheetor]] and [[Silverbolt (TransTech)|Silverbolt]] introduced the trio to [[Alpha Trion (SG)|Alpha Trion]]. However, [[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]] had Breakaway quietly subdued and taken to his laboratory. {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 1}} Skyfall and Landquake realized Breakaway was gone, but Alpha Trion told them to come with him if they wanted to rescue their brother from the evil [[Transcendent Technomorph|TransTechs]]. {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 2}} He explained he was not from this dimension and was part of a resistance movement, introducing them to Topspin, whose job was to transfer their [[lowtech]] followers' [[spark]]s into their TransTech counterparts. Realizing Topspin was one of their kin, Skyfall and Landquake agreed to help. {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 3}} [[Nightscream (TransTech)|Nightscream]] found Breakaway was being held near the portal to Alpha Trion's dimension, {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 4}} and his acolytes attacked, rescuing Breakaway {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 5}} and entering the [[unspace|transwarp]] device. Alpha Trion explained to Skyfall he was the key to the reunification, and killed him as they entered [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|his universe]]. {{storylink|Transcendent: Part 6}}

[[File:Reunification5-arisenexusprime.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.95|"It's beautiful..." "Holy crap!" "It's perfect!" "This is the best thing!"]]
Despite his claim his was a peaceful world, Alpha Trion shot [[Downshift (SG)|Downshift]], and Breakaway realized Skyfall had been killed by an energy blade rather than shot from behind as the old Autobot claimed. Alpha Trion's troops arrived, took the four components and he proclaimed he would kill them all—as reunification still worked with one of them dead—and that his reign would begin. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 1}} Landquake manipulated the raw energon and used smokebombs to escape, with Topspin and Breakaway carrying Skyfall. Weeks later, after trying unsuccessfully to revive Skyfall, {{storylink|Reunification: Part 2}} the [[Quintesson]] [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] appeared to take them to [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]]. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 3}} Landquake explained their situation to the Decepticons, and Megatron asked [[Cyclonus (SG)|Cyclonus]] to bring [[Heatwave (Timelines)|Heatwave]], but then Cyclonus, revealing himself to be an agent of Alpha Trion, assassinated Megatron. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 4}} Breakaway suggested they use their powers to revive Megatron, and found themselves in a white space with Skyfall and Primus. They made their choice: [[Nexus Prime]] was reborn. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 5}} Nexus resurrected Megatron as Galvatron and defeated [[Omega Doom]]. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 6}} Using Galvatron's gift of the [[Space bridge|stellar spanner]], Nexus and Aquarius began dimension-hopping to find the shards of the [[Star Saber (Prima)|artifact]] he had been entrusted with, so he could complete his memories. While Nexus outlined the artifact's background to Aquarius, the faces of Vector Prime and [[The Fallen]] flashed through his mind. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}}

The TransTechs knew the [[Mini-Con]]s to be the children of [[Micronus Prime]] {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/05/09}} and early on in their history were threatened with an ultimately failed coup led by [[Jhiaxus (TransTech)|Jhiaxus]], a follower of the [[Liege Maximo]]. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/05/06}}

When the [[Transcendent Technomorph|TransTech]]s detected significant multiversal chaos resulting from negative polarity Primax Autobots [[Invasion (issue)|crossing over into a mirror universe]], they suspected that [[Rarified Energon]] was somehow involved. [[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]] was also aware of (correct) rumors that the Thirteen were involved with Rarified Energon. {{storylink|Invasion Prologue}} As part of their response to the multiversal chaos, the TransTechs deployed [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depth Charge]] to prehistoric Shatteredverse Earth in order to keep the [[Origin Matrix]] out of evil hands. {{storylink|Invasion: Epilogue}}

After several unspecified adventures, Aquarius ended up in Axiom Nexus and took charge of a shard of the Star Saber from [[Chifumi Takahashi|a courier]]. In exchange, he promised to help her get home. {{storylink|Transformers I.Q.#issue 48|Transformers I.Q. last issue review}} To their surprise, however, they ended up on Shatteredverse Cybertron. It soon became obvious that Nexus had transported them there in order to receive the [[Origin Matrix]], the fifth and final piece, from [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], recently retrieved from prehistoric Shatteredverse Earth. {{storylink|Transformers I.Q.#issue 54|Transformers I.Q. trivia bonus #12}} {{storylink|Falling into Place}}

When he reunited the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] and the [[Terminus Blade]], Nexus Prime decided that he was going to return things to "how they used to be", {{storylink|Restoration}} and strengthened the walls between the various realities of the multiverse, which had the consequence of ending the existence of he and siblings as multiversal singularities. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Multiversal Thirteen|Multiversal Thirteen]]" above''

====Olympian universe====
In certain universes, the Thirteen visited [[Greece]] in a time before human technology was advanced enough for them to assume vehicular disguises. Instead, twelve of their number dwelled on [[Mount Olympus]] and used [[holomatter]] avatars to interact with the natives, {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/20}} while [[Mortilus]] remained beneath the Earth with their ship, alongside his vassal [[Bruticus (RID)|Bruticus]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/08}}

As "quasi-humans", the Thirteen would become known to the local humans as the {{w|Twelve Olympians|gods of Olympus}}. [[Vector Prime]] was {{w|Hermes}}; the rage-filled [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] was {{w|Ares}}; the hard-working [[Solus Prime]] was {{w|Hephaestus}}; the wise [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]] was {{w|Athena}}; the eldest of their number [[Prima]] was {{w|Zeus}}; his close ally [[Nexus Prime|Nexus Maximus]] was {{w|Hera}}; the nature-loving hunter [[Onyx Prime]] was {{w|Artemis}}; the hard-drinking [[Alchemist Prime]] was {{w|Dionysus}}; the vain and manipulative [[Liege Maximo]] was {{w|Aphrodite}}; the healer [[Last Autobot|Autonomous Prime]] was {{w|Apollo}}; the chaotic [[Adaptus]] was {{w|Poseidon}}; the solitary Mortilus was {{w|Hades}}; and the knowledge-sharing [[Epistemus]] was {{w|Demeter}}. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/20}} {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/08}}

As the Olympians, several of the Thirteen deviated from both their more common gender identities and their status as siblings; Vector considered Hades and Poseidon to be his uncles, {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/20}} and because of the animosity between Hephaestus and Aphrodite, Zeus decreed that they should be [[Transformer romance|bonded together]] to avoid further conflict (which only made things worse). Amongst the Thirteen's many experiences, Hades and Demeter quarrelled over a woman named [[Persephone]]; Vector would later note that as "quasi-humans" their conflicts were far more petty and frequent. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/08}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Vector Prime|Hermes]]
*[[The Fallen|Ares]]
*[[Solus Prime|Hephaestus]]
*[[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Athena]]
*[[Prima|Zeus]]
*[[Nexus Prime|Hera]]
*[[Onyx Prime|Artemis]]
*[[Alchemist Prime|Dionysus]]
*[[Liege Maximo|Aphrodite]]
*[[Last Autobot|Apollo]]
*[[Adaptus|Poseidon]]
*[[Mortilus|Hades]]
*[[Epistemus|Demeter]]
}}

===Live-action film series===
{{main|Dynasty of Primes}}

[[File:ROTF-sixprimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|The Primes in the Matrix/Allspark/surreal part of Primus's imagination.]]
The Primes were the guardians of the [[AllSpark]], charged with replenishing it. They commanded [[Seeker (ROTF)|Seekers]] and [[Constructicon (ROTF)|workers]] to find stars and replenish the AllSpark with their energy. The Fallen began seeing himself as the AllSpark's chosen one and began destroying solar systems with sentient life to replenish the Cube. His brothers warned him not to do it again, so The Fallen tried it again on [[Earth]] to lure them. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 3|Tales of the Fallen #3}} The Fallen slaughtered all his brothers bar Prima himself, who gathered his brothers' lifeforce to trap The Fallen in his [[sarcophagus]]. Prima sacrificed himself to form a [[Tomb of the Primes|tomb]] with his brothers' bodies to hide the Matrix. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

A long time passed, and The Fallen was eventually dug up. From his prison, he pushed [[Megatron (Movie)|High Protector Megatron]] into forming the Decepticons. {{storylink|Defiance issue 2|Defiance #2}} Thousands of years later, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]], the sole surviving descendant of the Primes to survive The Fallen's rampage, {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen issue 3|Revenge of the Fallen #3}} had been killed. The Primes appeared to [[Sam Witwicky]], giving him the Matrix to revive Optimus, and Optimus avenged The Fallen's brothers by killing him. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

'''Known members:'''
*[[Prima]]
*[[The Fallen]]

{{note|The ''Revenge of the Fallen'' adaptations have thirteen Primes. While designs were made for twelve non-Fallen Prime heads, the finished film shows only seven Primes, and this change was followed in ''[[Transformers: Tales of the Fallen|Tales of the Fallen]]'' and [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)|the Titan magazine]].}}

===Aligned continuity family===
[[File:OneShallRise1-TheThirteen.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|They're not a fan of direct lighting.]]

Seeing the endless stalemate between him and [[Unicron/Aligned|Unicron]], [[Primus]] created the Thirteen, warriors in the mould of himself and Unicron, to fight in his stead and introduce random variables. The Thirteen did indeed succeed in defeating Unicron but were infected with a touch of the Chaos-Bringer's darkness as a result of direct proximity to the Dark God.

Following Unicron's exile, the Primes began reshaping their world before the manipulations of [[Liege Maximo]] caused the group to descend into civil war. The skirmish claimed both Maximo and [[Solus Prime]]. [[Onyx Prime|Onyx]], [[Micronus Prime|Micronus]] and [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] chose to descend into the [[Core]] and join Primus so they could aid in the creation of the Cybertronian race with [[Prima]], [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] and [[Alchemist Prime]] remaining on Cybertron to act as stewards for the newborn species while [[Nexus Prime]] separated himself into separate individuals to live among the ordinary Cybertronians. [[Quintus Prime|Quintus]], [[Amalgamous Prime|Amalgamous]], [[Vector Prime]] and [[The Fallen]] left Cybertron outright.

Following the [[Great Cataclysm]], Prima and Alchemist Prime disappeared with Alpha Trion choosing to fall into obscurity. As a result, the Thirteen became little more than a myth in the new era. {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|Covenant of Primus}}

What lore regarding the Primes survived into the pre-War era is that their war made "enemies of brothers, murderers of lovers, heroes of the insignificant, and cowards of the mighty". Allegiances formed and broke apart: Megatronus refused to bow before his brothers, and he believed he would be vindicated someday despite his destructive methods. The murder of one sent them across the stars, to battle among themselves for billions of cycles. Finally, there came a time when Prima had to relinquish the Matrix. Afterwards, the [[Covenant of Primus]] decreed Cybertron could only have one Prime at a time. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}} The chamber of the [[Autobot High Council|High Council of Cybertron]] had statues depicting the Primes. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

[[File:OneShallRise1-Thirteenattack.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.66|Three seconds of one episode made up for a lifetime of lack of Thirteen images.]]
[[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] remained on Cybertron, recording these events into the Covenant, and the Primes became myths doubted by [[Jazz (WFC)|some]]. Alpha Trion retreated into becoming the Archivist of the [[Hall of Records]] when [[Sentinel Zeta Prime|Sentinel Prime]], the [[Autobot High Council|High Council]], and the [[Guilds of Cybertron]] ignored his protests about the [[Functionism|caste system]]. The [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] did not bestow itself onto another until the unworthy Sentinel died, and [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] was imbued with it, while his nemesis had become known as [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]], who like his namesake had come to destroy that he believed in. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

During his travels across the galaxy, Optimus Prime encountered both [[Vector Prime|Vector]] and [[Nexus Prime]] both of whom expressed surprise that Alpha Trion still lived and wondered if any of their other brothers might still be alive. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

When Unicron stirred, Optimus Prime explained the history of the Thirteen to his human allies. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}}

Before Optimus Prime was to die, {{storylink|Predacons Rising (Prime)|Predacons Rising}} the Primes intercepted his [[spark]] and brought him to their [[Realm of the Primes|realm]]. {{storylink|Decepticon Island (Part 1)}}

After his death, Optimus was able to appear to Bumblebee when the Primes deemed the young bot's need was most dire. {{storylink|W.W.O.D.?}} As part of Optimus's training, Micronus challenged him to a test which resulted in him unlocking the capabilities of the [[Prime Decepticon Hunter]]. {{storylink|Out of Focus}} Though Optimus did not fully complete his training, he had six of the Primes in the [[Realm of the Primes]] send him to Earth to deal with the return of Megatronus, {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}} which he successfully accomplished with the aid of the [[Bee Team (RID)|Bee Team]]. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 2}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''
{{--}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Legendary figures in Cybertronian society, the Thirteen were the first of the Primes, each having a psychic pillar dedicated to them in the Matrix of Leadership where their spirits persisted after their physical deaths. {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} Through this, the bearer of the Matrix could commune with the Thirteen and seek their power and wisdom in times of crisis. {{storylink|Silent Strike}}

In the modern era, the only known members of the Thirteen to survive were [[Alpha Trion (Cyberverse)|Alpha Trion]] and [[Alchemist Prime]]. {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} Under unknown circumstances, Alchemist adopted the alias of "[[Maccadam]]" and hid his connection to the group though rumours, ones that [[Bumblebee (Cyberverse)|Bumblebee]] personally didn't buy into, of his true origins circled around. {{storylink|Maccadam's}} Alpha Trion, meanwhile, carried the [[Matrix of Leadership]], seeking to pass it on to a worthy bearer; he eventually found someone worthy in [[Optimus Prime (Cyberverse)|Optimus Prime]], and passed the Matrix on to him after Trion was mortally wounded, inducting him as a Prime. {{storylink|Matrix of Leadership (episode)|Matrix of Leadership}}

'''Known members:'''
:''See "[[#Covenant Thirteen|Covenant Thirteen]]" above''

{{note|The fact that Optimus Prime is not, apparently, an ancient Cybertronian like he is in the [[Aligned continuity family]] makes it unclear how he fits into the Thirteen, despite having one of the thirteen pillars in [[Matrix of Leadership#Alternate universe|a divergent timeline's Matrix]]. ''Cyberverse'' writer [[Mae Catt]] suggested that it was possible that there were additional pillars for other Primes within the Matrix that just happened to be "offscreen".}}

===''EarthSpark'' cartoon===
[[File:Disarmed-TheThirteen.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Solus has been hulking up.]]
The Thirteen Primes established [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s culture in its early days. One of their number, Quintus, eventually left Cybertron, using his [[Emberstone]] to seed life on other planets. {{storylink|Age of Evolution, Part 1}}

When explaining the power of the Primes to the Malto family, [[Optimus Prime (ES)|Optimus Prime]] showed them the [[Matrix of Leadership]], granted to him by the Primes, briefly touching on the history of the Primes and their [[Artifacts of the Primes|artifacts]]. {{storylink|Disarmed}}

'''Known members:'''
*[[Quintus Prime]]

{{-}}

===''One'' film===
[[File:TransformersOne-ThePrimesholograms.jpg|thumb|300px|'''Hasbro''': "''Power of the Primes'' wasn't that successful. How are we gonna make the Thirteen popular enough to make toys out of them?" 
'''Josh Cooley''': "I'm going to do what's called a pro-gamer move!"]]
The original thirteen Primes were created by [[Primus]] at the dawn of Cybertron, the first Transformers and the leaders of the race's Golden Age. The [[High Guard]] served as their elite bodyguards. The Primes ruled in peace for eons until the Quintessons attacked and threw Cybertron into violent war. The war raged for years until [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel]], the Primes' secretary, informed them of a secret gathering of Quintesson generals. The Primes, realizing that a decisive attack could decimate enemy leadership and win the war, went as a group to attack the council in a hidden cave. When they arrived, they found a waiting Quintesson ambush. The Primes fought and gained the upper hand when Sentinel betrayed them, stabbing Nexus Prime through his chest, decapitating Megatronus Prime, and using Nexus' weapon to kill several of the others, including Solus Prime and Zeta Prime. Sentinel attempted to take the Matrix of Leadership from Zeta's body, but it rejected him and disintegrated. Instead, Sentinel took Megatronus' transformation cog as his trophy. Sentinel declared himself the new Prime and left to take control of Cybertron, unaware that Alpha Trion survived the battle in stasis. To the public, Sentinel disseminated a cover story in which he was the last survivor of the Primes, the rest of whom died heroically to defeat the Quintessons.

Fifty cycles later, the [[cogless]] miners [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]], [[Megatron (One)|D-16]], [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]], and [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]] discovered the Primes' resting place following an S.O.S. beacon from Trion. They reawakened the sleeping Prime and he recounted Sentinel's betrayal to them, denouncing him as a false Prime, before bestowing them with transformation cogs borrowed from Prima, Alchemist, Micronus, and Onyx. The four left to take the evidence to Iacon while Trion held off Sentinel's forces, killing several Death Trackers before being captured by [[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]]. Trion was taken to face Sentinel, who gloated with him before killing the Prime for trying to give him a speech.

Later, during a battle with Sentinel's forces, D-16 accidentally shot Orion and allowed him to fall towards Cybertron's core. There, the spirits of the Primes appeared and informed Orion that Primus had chosen him to carry the Matrix of Leadership, and he was reborn as Optimus Prime. While this was happening, D-16 killed Sentinel and took Megatronus' cog for his own. Embittered by Sentinel's misuse of the Primes' legacy to deceive Cybertron into slavery, D-16 declared that there would be no more Primes, and renamed himself Megatron. {{storylink|Transformers One (film)|One}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Prima#One film|Prima Prime]]
*[[The Fallen#One film|Megatronus Prime]]
*[[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]
*[[Vector Prime#One film|Vector Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime#One film|Solus Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime#One film|Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime#One film|Nexus Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo#One film|Liege Maximo]]
*[[Onyx Prime#One film|Onyx Prime]]
*[[Micronus Prime#One film|Micronus Prime]]
*[[Quintus Prime#One film|Quintus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime#One film|Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]]
}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Nova Prime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]
Upon [[Vector Prime]]'s arrival into regular spacetime, [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] and [[C.L. (G1)|C.L.]] took only a moment to recognise their saviour as one of the original Thirteen. Vector had broken his vow of non-interference to stop the machinations of his renegade sibling, [[Nova Prime]]. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Vector also approached the time-lost [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], who was very honoured to meet his forebear. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Vector Prime arrival}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Prima]]
*[[The Fallen|Megatronus]]
*[[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]]
*[[Vector Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo]]
*[[Onyx Prime]]
*[[Micronus Prime|Micronus]]
*[[Quintus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Nova Prime]]
}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
Some Transformers theorized that the Thirteen may have been the original combiners. {{storylink|The Enigma of Combination}}

==Toys==
===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Vector-Prime-Prime-Master.jpg|upright=1|thumb]]
{{main|Prime Master}}
:The centerpiece of the line, the Prime Masters represent the sparks of the Thirteen.

:When slotted into the chest armor/Combiner Fist of the line's Deluxes, forearm bucklers/Combiner Feet of the Voyagers, the combiners chest in place of their Enigma of Combination, or the Matrixes of the Leader Class figures, the power of said member of the Thirteen could be harnessed by the figure via the power of one's imagination.
{{--}}
===''Age of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-Age of the Primes-Solus Prime.jpg|thumb|300px|]]
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-multi|'''The Thirteen'''}}
:{{Bp-pr4|[[Solus Prime#Age of the Primes|'''The Thirteen Solus Prime''']] (Deluxe Class, [[2025]])}}
:{{Bp-pr1|[[Prima#Age of the Primes|'''The Thirteen Prima Prime''']] (Voyager Class, 2025)}}
:{{Bp-pr12|[[The Fallen/toys#Age of the Primes|'''The Thirteen Megatronus the Fallen''']] (Leader Class, 2025)}}
:{{Bp-pr8|[[Onyx Prime#Age of the Primes|'''The Thirteen Onyx Prime''']] (Leader Class, 2025)}}
:{{Bp-pr13|[[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Age of the Primes|'''The Thirteen Star Optimus Prime''']] (Titan Class, 2025)}}
</ul>
:{{toydesigner|[[Mark Maher]] (Hasbro), [[Yūya Ōnishi]] and [[Shuhei Umezu]] (TakaraTomy)}}

:Seven years later, hot off the heels of their role in ''Transformers One'', the Thirteen return to toy store shelves in the ''[[Transformers: Age of the Primes|Age of the Primes]]'' in full force as full-scale figures based on the various forms they have taken over the years, [[Artifacts of the Primes|artifacts]], personal insignias and all.

:For this toyline, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Generation 1 Optimus Prime]], in his Star <s>Convoy</s> Optimus Prime form, takes the role of the normally mysterious 13th member, using the [[Zodiac]] as his artifact equivalent. The other Primes (sans Vector, who is represented by his [[Vector Prime#Legacy|''Legacy: United'' toy]]) are set to be released either during ''Age of the Primes'' or in the following year's toyline.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=The best part of the next 2 years is, you’ll not only collect the 13 primes but theres an amazing plethora of bots that are all descendents of the primes, you can collect them all, finish mini collections, and guess their energon bloodline.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/DC2tKXARTg3/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2024|month=11|day=26}}</ref>
{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
*The notion of the Primes being originally huge is similar to early ''Revenge of the Fallen'' concepts where the Fallen dwarfed Optimus and was almost the size of a pyramid, as evident from [[Defiance issue 4|''Defiance'' #4]] and the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)|novelization]].
===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Saisho no Jūsannin no Prime''' (最初の13人のプライム, "Original 13 Primes")
*''Turkish:'' '''On Üç''' ("Thirteen")

==See also==
*[[Covenant (group)|Covenant]]
*[[Ancient]]
*[[Primus Vanguard]]

==References==
<references/>

{{Thirteen}}
{{IDWPrimes nav}}

[[Category:Classics subgroups]]
[[Category:Cybertron subgroups]]
[[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) subgroups]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) subgroups]]
[[Category:Prime subgroups]]
[[Category:Primus]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]
[[Category:Shattered Glass subgroups]]
[[Category:Subgroups]]
[[Category:Thirteen| ]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game subgroups]]
[[Category:TransTech]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron subgroups]]

Nexus Prime

2024-12-09T14:37:13Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Prime cartoon */ Specifying which one is Nexus. There are many Primes in the photo.

{{factions|nexusprime|autobot|sgDecepticon}}
{{featured}}
[[Image:NexusPrimeflankedbyotherPrimes.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Insert batteries where?!]]
One of the [[Thirteen]], '''Nexus Prime''' was the first [[combiner]], often associated with [[Rarified Energon]].

He is sometimes, unfortunately, known as '''Nexus Maximus'''.

==Fiction==
===Fun Publications===
When the Thirteen visited ancient Earth of some universal streams, Nexus Prime used a [[holomatter]] avatar which inspired the myth of the goddess Hera, trusted confidant of Zeus, who was [[Prima]]'s holomatter avatar. [[Vector Prime]] shared many fond memories with his siblings, including Nexus, and noted that there were universal streams where Nexus was known as Nexus [[Convoy (rank)|Convoy]].

Nexus Prime, Vector Prime, [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]], and [[Solus Prime]] made the decision to split Nexus Prime into five pieces to conceal the location of the five fragments of Prima's [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] sword, a weapon that could destroy star systems, from their evil brother [[The Fallen|Megatronus]]. Using the blade of the Star Saber, Nexus Prime was cut into five other robots: [[Skyfall (Cybertron)|Skyfall]], [[Landquake (Timelines)|Landquake]], [[Breakaway (Classics)|Breakaway]], [[Topspin (Classics)|Topspin]], and [[Heatwave (Timelines)|Heatwave]], who were subsequently scattered across the [[multiverse]] and lost to the ages. {{Storylink|Ask Vector Prime}}

But the skills of Nexus Prime are needed once again, and now that his components have been called together by Primus, he searches the multiverse for the components to the Star Saber sword, armed with his masterful control over all uses of [[energon]], and ability to manipulate [[spark]]s.

[[Image:Clubcombinercarving.jpg|200px|thumb|They drew his limbs arranged incorrectly!]]
The [[Caretaker]] told its components that Nexus Prime was "designated a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]", like the other original thirteen. {{storylink|Crossing Over: Part 6}}

When Landquake, Breakaway, Topspin, and Heatwave made an attempt to use their powers to revive the recently assassinated [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]], they were transported—along with a revived Skyfall—to the presence of [[Primus]] in the "afterlife". He gave them a choice of living (or staying dead) as they were, or being reborn as what they were meant to be. After the gestalt members made their deliberations, Primus declared, "The choice is made. Arise, Nexus Prime," as they started the transformation. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 5}}

[[Image:OmegaDoomNexusPrimeGalvatron.jpg|left|thumb|300px|Behold the fingers my toy totally doesn't have!]]

Nexus Prime [[Reformatting|reformatted]] the dead Megatron into the powerful Galvatron, investing in him some of the power of the Thirteen. The two exited the Decepticon stronghold to counter [[Omega Doom]]'s offensive, but they were forced to split up when Doom launched a starkilling missile into Cybertron's sun. Though his Decepticon components protested leaving the battle, Nexus Prime knew saving this Cybertron's star system was of more immediate importance. Regardless, he was too late in stopping the missile, and its energies began to destroy the sun. Nexus began to concentrate.

Nexus returned to Cybertron triumphant, having used his own powers to negate those of the starkilling missile, and he made short work of Omega Doom, saving Galvatron in the nick of time. Though there was more on this Cybertron to do, such as finishing [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus Prime]] once and for all, Nexus Prime knew he had to depart this universe. After saying goodbye to [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Cliffjumper]], he entered a portal with [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]], trusting fate to bring him to the correct destination. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 6}}

Nexus Prime and Aquarius traveled from world to world, but without finding what Nexus Prime was looking for. Eventually, the pair arrived on [[Primax 509.28 Epsilon|one universe]]'s [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], where they were attacked by a group of smaller Decepticons who thought they had an easy mark. Though Nexus Prime was unwilling to use his more supernatural powers, lest he draw unwanted attention towards himself, he was still able to easily beat their attackers. As they left the group of dazed Decepticons behind, Nexus Prime and Aquarius wandered through a Cybertronian marketplace. Finally, Nexus Prime began to drop hints about what [[Star Saber (Prima)|mysterious artifact]] he was looking for; he hadn't yet clued Aquarius in. Ultimately, Nexus Prime spotted a shipping container with an [[Elite Guard]] symbol on it. This unlocked a memory in the ancient Transformer, allowing him to determine their next destination. He and Aquarius vanished through another portal to yet another dimension. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}}

After several unspecified adventures, Aquarius ended up in Axiom Nexus and took charge of a shard of the Star Saber from a [[Chifumi Takahashi|courier]]. In exchange, he promised to help her get home. {{storylink|Transformers I.Q.#issue 48|Transformers I.Q. last issue review}} To their surprise, however, they ended up on the Cybertron of Aquarius's home reality. It soon became obvious that Nexus had transported them there in order to receive the [[Origin Matrix]], the fifth and final piece, from [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Mammoth]]. {{storylink|Transformers I.Q.#issue 54|Transformers I.Q. trivia bonus #12}} {{storylink|Falling into Place}}

[[File:AnotherLight-choppitychop.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"...''Transformers: Prime'' will never make a dozen episodes about finding you."]]

While waiting for Nexus Prime's arrival, Ultra Mammoth confronted his negative counterpart [[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]], who was wielding the [[Terminus Blade]] on Earth. After the Origin Matrix inadvertently supercharged the Blade, Nexus Prime's components arrived in time to combine the Matrix with the other elements to reform the Star Saber. Prima's great sword severed the evil Magnus's arm, and Nexus Prime banished the insane Autobot to a dimension suitable for his temperament. With the Star Saber and Terminus Blade in hand, Nexus Prime set about undoing what damage he could from Magnus's abuse of the weapon. {{storylink|Restoration}}

In multidimensional space, Nexus Prime found he could not undo the destruction of universes already caused by the Terminus Blade. Aware that his actions would not be without consequences to himself, Nexus Prime brought the Saber and Blade together. He strengthened the existing walls between dimensions to prevent further inter-universe decay. He bolstered dying universes that had not yet succumbed to Ultra Magnus, hoping they might still survive. In the process, however, the strengthened walls could no longer support the fluidity of multiversal singularities. Nexus Prime felt himself and his fellow Thirteen splintering, existing as independent beings in each reality they manifested in, instead of thirteen singularities. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

===Aligned continuity family===
====''The Covenant of Primus''====
[[Image:5NexusPrime.jpg|thumb|200px]]
As the first and greatest combiner, Nexus Prime could separate into multiple independent components and combine them at will. Nexus, like his siblings who were created between [[Prima]] and [[The Fallen|Megatronus]], was balanced between the personalities of Primus and Unicron.

Nexus was part of the '''Free Agents''', which included [[Alchemist Prime]], [[Solus Prime]], and the [[Thirteenth Prime]]: capable of both direct battle and subtle attacks. As the Primes trained with each other, Solus created the [[Cyber Caliber]] for him, which could split into smaller swords. Nexus would follow Solus into the portal leading to Unicron, entering Unicron's body to harm him from within. All of Nexus' components struggled with the overpowering corruption of Unicron's Dark Energon, but the words of ''Thirteen'', "All Are One", would help him keep fighting. Eventually, Unicron was defeated and Nexus returned to Cybertron with his siblings.

As the [[Age of Primes]] began, Nexus devoted his time to his creative interests, having no interest in the politics of Prima's group. During the [[War of the Primes]], when the Primes came together to vote on whether [[Liege Maximo]]'s [[Farm]] should be shut down or not, Nexus voted with Prima to shut it down. Sometime later, Nexus would join Prima, [[Vector Prime]], [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]], [[Micronus Prime]], and ''Thirteen'' in finding Megatronus after the death of Solus Prime. Nexus would take his Cyber Caliber when all the Primes visited the Farm, which led to infighting among the Primes.

Nexus Prime would survive the War of the Primes, but the memory of his existence would fade away into myth and legend. Several stellar cycles later, the five components of Nexus Prime -- [[Cannonspring]], [[Mainspring]], [[Pinion]], [[Clocker (Prime)|Clocker]], and [[Chaindrive]] -- would briefly reunite as Nexus Prime, giving [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] his sword. {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}

====Aligned novels====
Known as the "Wizard of Forms", Nexus Prime was all about change and mutability. When standing alone, his body seemed to shift or be overlaid with ever-changing forms and combinations he might take. Powerful, proud, and frequently unpredictable even to those who knew him best, Nexus Prime was full of good humor and a bit of a prankster at times. He was the "mad experimenter" of the Thirteen and is fascinated by changing states of matter and the creation of new elements in solar forges. This shared affinity for creation led [[Solus Prime]], the "Maker" of the Thirteen, to have special feelings for Nexus, which in turn seemed to have earned him the enmity of [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] and [[Liege Maximo]].

Nexus Prime was last seen by Alpha Trion before the [[Age of Wrath]], taking custody of many of Solus Prime's creations, including the Cyber Caliber, the [[Chaos Edge]], the [[Blades of Time]], and the [[Omni Saber]].
The Omni Saber was a part of Nexus Prime's body, and he secreted the Cyber Caliber away inside his form as well before splitting himself into five component robots: Clocker, Mainspring, Chaindrive, Pinion, and Cannonspring.
Each component held a fraction of the Cyber Caliber within themselves and was also charged with guarding one of the Blades of Time. Only by assembling the Blades of Time and using them to open a gateway to the hollow [[Realm of the Primes|realm]] of Vector Prime could the Cyber Caliber be reassembled. The [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] was believed to have been taken by Nexus Prime but was not in his possession during the [[Great Exodus]].

The sub-selves of Nexus Prime scattered throughout the colony worlds of Cybertron. They remained apart for so long that each forgot their true nature, and no longer recalled being part of Nexus Prime or the Thirteen. All but Cannonspring even forgot their duty to safeguard the Blades of Time and the Cyber Caliber. Clocker and Mainspring wound up on [[Velocitron]], where they remained slightly out of place as mechanics instead of the speed-driven racers who ruled the planet. Pinion ended up on [[Junkion (planet)|Junkion]], assimilating well into the culture (perhaps because the Junkion way of constantly reusing materials appealed to the subconscious preference of Nexus Prime for change). Chaindrive found himself on Cybertron, and eventually became part of the Autobot resistance movement alongside [[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] and Alpha Trion after the Ark's departure. Cannonspring ended up in a crippled ship in Cybertron's deep orbit, until the prospector [[Axer (Prime)|Axer]] triggered some latent transwarp energy on board, transporting them both to Junkion. Cannonspring remained inert for over a million years inside his ship after it crashed.

Nexus Prime began to come together once more thanks to the Matrix, which directed Optimus Prime through space to the various colony worlds. As the Ark came to Velocitron, Optimus discovered two pieces of the Blades of Time and fatefully agreed to bring Clocker and Mainspring on the next leg of his journey when they asked. On Junkion, Prime encountered Pinion while recovering a third Blade, and the fourth was retrieved from Axer. Meanwhile, back on Cybertron, Alpha Trion and [[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] concocted a method of sending a scout after Optimus Prime by keying residual Space Bridge energy to the signature of the Matrix. Instinctively, Alpha Trion decided Chaindrive was the proper choice, and he brought with him the fifth Blade. Once all five Blades and the other four components assembled on Junkion, the combined energy was enough to rekindle the inert Cannonspring, bringing him back to full functioning and allowing them to reassemble into Nexus Prime.

Displaying the ability to hold more weapons than an armory, Nexus Prime pulled forth both his Omni Saber and the Chaos Edge, and also passed the Cyber Caliber over to Optimus Prime. Although he refused to kill anyone, Nexus Prime essentially held off the Decepticons and the [[Star Seeker]]s for a time, on intimidation alone. As [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] and [[Thundertron]] left to pursue other goals, Nexus Prime reclaimed his swords and gave some last words of encouragement to Optimus Prime before splitting himself once more. Reduced to a new set of five protoforms, Nexus Prime vanished into space and the annals of history once more. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[Image:OneShallRise1-TheThirteen.jpg|left|thumb|300px|The second one on the left.]]
According to legend, at the beginning of time, [[Unicron]] and [[Primus]] battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Till, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}}
{{-}}

===Generation 1 continuity family===
====2005 IDW continuity====
{{first|[[Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|''Robots in Disguise'' #30]] (mentioned); [[The Crucible|#34]] (depicted)}}

[[File:OriginMyths-ThePrimes.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Love child of Silverbolt and Wheeljack.]]

In the primitive age that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], Nexus Prime joined his [[Thirteen Tribes|tribe]] with those of [[Solus Prime|Solus]], [[Vector Prime|Vector]], [[Alchemist Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] in [[Crystal City]]. Like the other four, he knew [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Onyx Prime]] but he himself was disgusted by Onyx's bestial horde and took time to become acclimated to them. He had a brother in the east who ruled his own kingdom. {{storylink|Origin Myths}} Nexus was the first recorded owner of the mysterious artifact known as the [[Enigma of Combination]]. He evidently chose to keep the artifact's true nature as a physical object a secret, with most believing the "Enigma" part of the name referred to a puzzle that had to be solved to allow for [[Combiner|combination]]. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

One evening, Vector Prime barged in on a meeting to announce the approach of Onyx and [[Liege Maximo|a crony]], as well as the news that [[Septimus Prime]] had perished and that [[The Fallen|the conqueror]] of [[Protihex|his lands]] was on the warpath across Cybertron. Despite Solus and Onyx's dismissal, Nexus felt Septimus had still been a Prime such as they were before he asked who Onyx's minion was, the newcomer introducing himself as Liege Maximo, who had also lost his lands to the army of [[Darklands|Darklanders]]. At Alpha Trion's urging, the Primes allowed Onyx and Liege Maximo into their alliance. When the time of battle came, Nexus wished to join his followers in combat but remained behind at Solus's urging. After the [[Titan (group)|Titans]] arrived, Onyx leapt into the fray only to recognize the enemy commander as his old friend Megatronus. Nexus was shocked at this development, before the eight Primes joined forces. In the aftermath, [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] expressed the belief that the alliance would attract Nexus's brother to him. {{storylink|Origin Myths}} Unbeknownst to the Primes, the 'bot they believed to be Onyx Prime was in fact a time-travelling Shockwave from ten million years in the future who had engineered the entire conflict to bring the Primes together as history recorded. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:RID34 enigma of combination.jpg|thumb|left|250px|My Enigma don't go to none if they're lowborn, hun.]]

Power turned Nexus into something of a git really, believing that all non-Primes should serve their Prime masters. {{storylink|The Crucible}} Among the members of his court was a [[Titan Master]] by the name of [[Infinitus]], who wholeheartedly believed in his master's elitist approach to social engineering. {{storylink|White Heat}} The Thirteen Primes ruled their planet peacefully until Liege Maximo and Megatronus conspired together, goaded on by Shockwave's machinations, and started the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]] via the murder of Solus Prime. While Megatronus fled Cybertron, Nexus and [[Quintus Prime|Quintus]] managed to restrain Maximo, before trying and exiling him aboard [[Vigilem]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

Nexus allied himself with "Onyx Prime" during the war and used his [[Enigma of Combination]] to create the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]]: humanoid Transformers combined with beasts. {{storylink|The Crucible}} [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] found the whole concept disgusting and single-handedly slaughtered the Headmasters before coming after Nexus himself. Nexus sneered that Galvatron was a "lowborn" that couldn't kill him, and Galvatron responded by doing just that. The realization that a Prime could be killed by someone other than another Prime caused most of the remaining Primes to flee the planet. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

He was survived by Infinitus, who vowed to keep his master's teachings alive and eventually apply them to all of Cybertron–especially the parts about forced servitude to the Primes. {{storylink|White Heat}} Nexus's [[Titan (group)|Titan]], [[Devisiun (Titan)|Devisiun]], also survived the war and colonized [[Devisiun (planet)|a planet]] in honor of his master which the younger Shockwave eventually seeded with [[Ore-5]]. {{storylink|Ceremony|The Lost Colonies of Cybertron}}
{{--}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons====
[[Victorion]] claimed to only follow the will of Nexus Prime, though she admitted he hadn't given her any new guidance in some time. {{storylink|Desperate Actions}}

====''Power of the Primes'' marketing material====
Nexus Prime's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Nexus's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Nexus Prime's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
Nexus Prime, the holder of the Enigma of Combination, was one of the Thirteen Primes. {{storylink|Lord of Misrule: Sea of Rust I|Sea of Rust I}} It was said that Primus had created Nexus as a being of controlled chaos, introducing necessary change into Cybertronian society to prevent stagnation. {{storylink|Lord of Misrule: Enigmatic|Enigmatic}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Nexus Prime was one of the [[Thirteen]]. {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} {{storylink|Silent Strike}} {{storylink|The Other One}}

Nexus Prime eventually passed, being buried with all of his worldly possessions on another planet. Following the [[Quintesson]] invasion of Cybertron, [[Grimlock (Cyberverse)|Grimlock]] and [[Arcee (Cyberverse)|Arcee]] grave-robbed him. {{storylink|The Immobilizers}}

===''One'' film===
[[File:One-Nexus-Prime.jpg|thumb|Wait, am I supposed to combine with someone else?]]
One of the original Thirteen Primes, Nexus Prime ruled alongside his fellows until the [[Quintesson]]s invaded Cybertron. When the Primes were directed by [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel]] to a meeting of Quintesson generals, they found it an ambush. Despite being caught off-guard, the Primes managed to turn the tide of the battle before Sentinel betrayed them, stabbing Nexus and using his weapon to slay several of the Primes. Fifty cycles later, the spirits of the Primes appeared before Orion Pax when he was bestowed the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and became [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]]. {{storylink|Transformers One (film)|One}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
At the dawn of history, Nexus Prime received the [[Enigma of Combination]]. Some historical texts instead remembered him instead as "Nexus Maximus". {{storylink|The Enigma of Combination}}

==Toys==
===''Cybertron'', ''Classics'', and ''Timelines''===
[[Image:Timelinestoy-NexusMaximus.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Remember to use the instructions! You don't want to put something in the wrong hole.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|[[Skyfall (Cybertron)#Cybertron|Skyfall]] (2005)}}</ul>
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|[[Landquake (Timelines)#Timelines|Landquake]] (2006)}}</ul>
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|[[Breakaway (Classics)#Classics|Breakaway]] (2007)}}</ul>
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|[[Topspin (Classics)#Classics|Topspin]] (2008)}}</ul>
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-sd|[[Heatwave (Timelines)#Timelines|Heatwave]] (2009)}}</ul>
:Nexus Maximus is composed of his five team members, with Heatwave forming his central body component. His limbs' [[energon weapon]]s form his hands and feet. Conisisting of [[redeco]]s of components of the ''[[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' combiners, Nexus Maximus, just like [[Superion Maximus]], [[Bruticus Maximus (Energon)|Bruticus Maximus]], and [[Constructicon Maximus]], features universal connection points for the limbs, allowing many different combinations and even swapping of limbs from different teams, in a fashion very similar to ''[[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1]]'''s "[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (toyline)#1986 (Scramble City and Transformers 2010)|Scramble City]]"-type combiner teams. Unlike the other Maximus-style combiners, Nexus Maximus features four unique molds for his limb pieces, rather than two redecoed to fit both the legs and arms, due to him using both [[Destruction Team]] and [[Air Team]] molds. Whereas the individual components' robot modes still feature the same head sculpts as the ''Energon'' figures they're redecoed from, the combined form of Nexus Maximus himself was given an entirely new, unique head sculpt, which is an amalgamation of visual elements of its components' own heads: Skyfall's eyes, Landquake's chin, Breakaway's forehead, Topspin's "mohawk", and Heatwave's "ears".

:Nexus Maximus is the combined form of the first five [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] freebie toys, which were released over the span of five years.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/TFCCNexusMaximus/nexusmaximus.htm More information on Nexus Maximus at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-PotP-SDCC-2018-Throne-of-the-Primes-Nexus-Prime.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Throne of the Primes''' (Leader Class, 2018)
**''Takara ID number'': '''PP-43'''

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Nexus Prime is a retool of the [[Alchemist Prime#Power of the Primes|Alchemist Prime]]/[[Submarauder (G1)#Power of the Primes|Submarauder]] inner robot with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil/backpack, packaged in the [[Throne of the Primes#Toys|Throne of the Primes]] set.

:This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug onto any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the included [[Scepter of Sparks]] or [[Halo of Primus]] accessories. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

:While Nexus is a retool of Alchemist Prime (gang-molded with his included Submarauder decoy armor), it is unknown what gang-molded decoy armor Nexus would have had as a hypothetical mass-retail Prime Master.

:This set debuted at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2018, and was later sold via [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] online. It was also available at general retail in Taiwan.
{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:NexusPrimeDanKhannaConcept.jpg|right|thumb|250px]]

*It's hard to say what toyline Nexus Prime is from, as his components are from multiple franchises. The only other time this has happened since then was [[Orthia]].
*Nexus Prime's backstory bears a noticeable similarity to that of {{w|Voltron}}.
*Fun Publications stated at [[BotCon 2009]] that the official limb arrangement for Nexus Prime is that of the configuration in his instructions. With Landquake as the right arm, Breakaway as the left arm, Topspin as the right leg, and Skyfall as the left leg. Why he was depicted in a different arrangement in the caverns around the [[Caretaker]] no one knows.
*Ironically, despite being labeled as an Autobot, a majority of the Transformers that make up Nexus Prime are Decepticons, albeit ones that are [[Landquake (Timelines)|disenchanted by the Decepticon cause]], [[Topspin (Classics)|misled by deceitful leaders]], or [[Heatwave (Timelines)|a completely different kind of Decepticon]].
*Nexus Prime's TFCC magazine profile mentions that he "no longer has an [[alternate mode]]", due to being split apart for so long and then reassembled.
*With his components released one at a time, one per year, he's the combiner toy it took the longest to complete in an official capacity.
*Like other members of the Thirteen, Nexus was originally established as a [[multiversal singularity]] who existed as one being across all space and time, but that is [[Shroud|no longer the case]].

===Naming issues===
[[Fun Publications]] originally submitted the possible names '''Prime Nexus''' and '''Maximus Prime''' to [[Hasbro]] for the character (reflecting the fact that the character is a Prime in-fiction), Hasbro rejected these, apparently because they were feeling protective towards the use of the name Prime (despite previously having approved the fiction that named him a Prime, written by their own [[Forest Lee]]). Hasbro suggested merging the non-Prime segments of the two names instead... oops.

Apparently neither Hasbro nor Fun Publications did their research when naming Nexus Maximus, because there is another product which shares that name and was, as of [[May 24]], [[2009]], the top Google result (websites relating to this character have since surpassed it). While it is definitely a "toy", it is most assuredly not intended for ages 5 and up. According to the Fun Publications Club panel at [[BotCon 2009]], Hasbro did a search for the name with "safe search" on, causing them to not see... well, [http://www.edenfantasys.com/dildos/double-ended-dildos/nexus-maximus this]. '''NOTE: DEFINITELY NOT SAFE FOR WORK.'''

When he finally appeared in fiction his name was in fact given as Nexus Prime, which makes much better sense story-wise but deprives us of many cheap and easy joke opportunities. [[Pete Sinclair]] posted an image on the [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] forums of [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] blaming the "Nexus Maximus" name on a bad translation by [[Beta Maxx (RID)|Beta Maxx]].

(The debate is still on as to whether Nexus Maximus constitutes a choking hazard.)

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Nexus Prime''' (ネクサスプライム ''Nekusasu Puraimu'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Jīng Tiān Wěi''' (经天纬)

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Combined forms]]
[[Category:Cyberverse Transformers]]
[[Category:Dimension hoppers]]
[[Category:Fan Club-original characters]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Nexus Prime components| ]]
[[Category:One Transformers]]
[[Category:Prime Masters]]
[[Category:Shattered Glass Transformers]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game Transformers]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Transformers]]

Wasp

2024-12-07T02:39:20Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Age of the Primes */ Grammar fix

{{factions|autobot|decepticon|predacon|hofsilver}}
{{disambig3|Waspinator}}
:''Wasp is an [[Autobot]]-turned-[[Decepticon]] from the [[Animated continuity family]].''

[[File:WaspAnimated-botmodel.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Wasp and Bee. Obvious, with hindsight.]]

'''Wasp''' is a lot like [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]]... physically, at least. Built from the same chassis and sharing many of the same specifications and subroutines, the two Autobots attended boot camp together. Wasp's pompous, smarmy personality leaves something to be desired, but he had a lot going for him as a soldier, being highly skilled in the use of his stingers and knowing just how to toe the line with the drill sergeant. In a better life, he might have been [[Elite Guard]] commander material.

''Might'' have.

These days, though, Wasp is a broken bot, mentally unstable and on the run from the Autobots who have branded him a traitor. And, thanks to [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Blackarachnia]]'s experimentation, he's been reformatted into '''Waspinator''', a high-powered, techno-organic monstrosity. What little remains of his mind is focused on just one goal... destroying Bumblebee, the bot who ruined his life!

{{bigquote|You were always mean to me and Bumblebee. You may not be a traitor... but you were ''never'' a good bot.|[[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] tells Wasp off|"[[Where Is Thy Sting?]]"}}

==Fiction==
===''Animated'' cartoon===
{{Idw-tfa}}
{{voiceactor|[[Tom Kenny]] (English), [[Bumper Robinson]] (English, "Where Is Thy Sting?"), [[Kenji Nojima]] (Japanese, Wasp), [[Kensō Katō]] (Japanese, Waspinator)|[[Jaron Löwenberg]] (German), [[Luca Sandri]] (Italian), [[Rodrigo Contreras]] (Latin-American Spanish, seasons 1 and 2), [[Daniel Lema]] (Castilian Spanish), [[Marco Aurélio Campos]] (Portuguese), [[Nelson Machado]] (Portuguese, season 3), [[Petri Hanttu]] (Finnish), [[Vincent Violette]] (French, Wasp), [[Bruno Magne]] (French, "Where Is Thy Sting?"), [[Sylvain Lemarié]] (French, Waspinator)}}

[[File:WaspAutobot.jpg|left|thumb|upright=0.85|This can't end well.]]

Wasp was a cadet in the same group as Bumblebee, [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]], [[Ironhide (Animated)|Ironhide]] and [[Shockwave (Animated)|Longarm]]. Right away, Wasp took a dislike to Bumblebee, insulting him out of the blue as the yellow bot mused to himself about his future in the Elite Guard. He also dubbed Bulkhead a "[[Mudflap (slang)|mudflap]]," much to the amusement of his fellow cadets. The loud-mouthed drill sergeant [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Sentinel Minor]] took an immediate liking to "Wasp," as he dubbed him due to being impressed with his accuracy with his stingers–it was Bumblebee "bumbling" in trying to compete with this that led to his own name being assigned. Wasp and Ironhide quickly became close friends, often competing in little tests of strength, usually involving Wasp hitting or stinging Ironhide while the latter was in armor mode.

After Bumblebee "bumbled" several more times, leading to many [[transform-up]]s for the whole group, Wasp and Ironhide decided to take matters into their own hands, unscrewing Bumblebee's lower legs and leaving them out of reach even before they dumped the rest of him in a locker.

Unbeknown to Wasp, however, the reason for Bumblebee's foul-ups was that he was trying to out a traitor in the group—and had pegged Wasp as the likely culprit after seeing him walk out of a hangar in which someone had contacted [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]]. (Plus, let's face it, he was a complete jerk. And [[Decepticon]]s are jerks, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|right?]]) At Longarm's prompting, Bumblebee eventually found evidence incriminating Wasp as a spy. Wasp was stripped of his Autobot insignia and wheeled away, protesting his innocence and swearing revenge on Bumblebee.

[[File:WaspAnimated2.jpg|thumb|Wasp was once a 'Bot...]]

Many years later, Wasp escaped from Autobot custody and apparently eluded the now-Sentinel Prime by jumping through a [[space bridge]]. What was left of Wasp hid beneath the bridge as Sentinel left, [[Waspinator (BW)|buzzing and twittering to himself]], still swearing revenge on "Bumblebot." In reality, however, the innocent bot—broken mentally by his years of imprisonment—had been set up with evidence planted by "Longarm," who had also arranged Wasp's "escape" to divert suspicion from himself. {{storylink|Autoboot Camp}}

Needless to say, when the truth was revealed to Bumblebee by his old "friend," Longarm Prime (aka the Decepticon Shockwave), he took it pretty hard. {{storylink|A Bridge Too Close, Part II|A Bridge Too Close, Part II}}

Wasp headed straight for the Autobots' base on Earth, with Sentinel Prime and [[Jazz (Animated)|Jazz]] in pursuit. Waiting until Bumblebee was left alone on monitor duty (and actually playing ''[[Ninja Gladiator]]'' instead), he struck during a power outage, knocking Bumblebee cold and switching color schemes, helmets and even speech synthesizers with his rival. When Bumblebee came to, the others had returned and had him prisoner, with the disguised Wasp at their side. Despite Bumblebee's muffled cries, the Autobots fell for Wasp's ruse, forcing Bumblebee to flee into the night. Wasp stayed behind as the others tracked Bumblebee down, allowing him to try beating Bumblebee's video game and to search through Bumblebee's personal files.

[[File:WhereIsThySting-Bumblebeecreepilydefeated.jpg|left|thumb|Bee-st Wars!]]

When the others returned, joined by Sentinel, Jazz, [[Jetfire (Animated)|Jetfire]] and [[Jetstorm (Animated)|Jetstorm]], Wasp was able to recount several of Bumblebee's adventures which were logged in his files to keep the Autobots confused as to which bot was which. Unfortunately for Wasp, [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] proposed the two battle against each other in ''Ninja Gladiator'', so that Bumblebee's video game skills would be readily apparent and the traitor revealed. Before their video game could begin, Wasp panicked and attacked Bumblebee, holding him hostage so he could make his escape. Wasp left Bumblebee with one final indignity, turning off the [[electronic paint job]] he'd installed in Bee and stealing his helmet back... tricking Bulkhead into pummeling the real Bumblebee while Wasp fled. {{storylink|Where Is Thy Sting?}}

The Autobots continued to pursue an erratic Wasp, though for different reasons: Sentinel Prime was still commanding the Elite Guard to bring him in on suspicion of treason, while Optimus and Bumblebee just wanted to help him (or at least keep him from damaging himself and bystanders during his crazed flight). In the midst of a pursuit through the streets of Detroit, Bumblebee tried once again to convince Wasp that he was now known to be innocent and was set up by Longarm, but Wasp refused to listen. During the chase, Wasp was suddenly abducted by [[Swoop (Animated)|Swoop]], who carried him to [[Dinobot Island (Animated)|Dinobot Island]].

[[File:PredaconsRising Waspinator.jpg|thumb|"Wazzpinator is back...and Wazzpinator tired of being comic relief."]]

Wasp soon found himself in [[Meltdown (Animated)|Meltdown]]'s old underground lab going ga-ga over [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Blackarachnia]]. The spiderbot used her feminine wiles and familiar-sounding sob stories of Autobot betrayal to win Wasp's trust, and she convinced him to undergo an organic power augmentation procedure by impressing him with the ferocity of her own [[beast mode]] (while shielding him from seeing the disfigured mutant corpses left behind from her prior experiments). Wasp entered one [[unspace|transwarp]] chamber, a real organic wasp was put into another, and out came... Waspinator, three times larger than before, with more powerful energy "stings" and a deeper, heavily processed, voice. Waspinator also now sported a Decepticon insignia, indicating a final break away from the Autobots on his part.

When he was finally tracked down by Bumblebee, who apologized to him and wanted to be his friend, he decided that while "Wasp" forgave his former accuser, "Waspinator" preferred violent revenge. Talk about Jekyll and Hyde. But before Waspinator could deliver the final blow, he overheard Blackarachnia admitting to the Autobots that she only viewed her new "friend" as another experimental attempt to cure her own organic infection. Irate at yet another betrayal, Waspinator started attacking everybody—and if that wasn't scary enough, his transwarp energy became unstable. Just as Waspinator reached critical mass, Blackarachnia sealed them both within a cocoon of her energy webbing, containing the explosion of transwarp energy.

[[File:TFAni Predacons Rising Waspinator Hazz Planzzz.jpg|thumb|left|Some assembly required.]]

While only a crater was left on Dinobot Island, Waspinator and Blackarachnia were teleported by the transwarp energy to an unknown jungle. Although reduced to pieces by the explosion, Waspinator was still functional, and slowly began putting himself back together. After all, he couldn't go offline yet... because "Wazzzpinator hazz planzzz!" {{storylink|Predacons Rising (Animated)|Predacons Rising}}

''At the time of [[Cheetor (Animated)|Cheetor]]'s demotion from Transtech to Iacon Central, a wanted poster for Wasp was hung outside [[Depth Charge (Animated)|Depth Charge]]'s office.'' {{storylink|Moving Violations}}
{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
In [[Malgus 508.6 Zeta]], the destruction of Dinobot Island blasted Waspinator's spark clear of his body and into [[Unspace]]. It was eventually discovered by the dimension-hopping Jhiaxus of [[Viron 903.0 Beta]], who used it to power a [[protoform]] [[blank]] who would become [[Thrust (Attacktix)|Thrust]]. Although Thrust cultivated a suave and confident persona, his subconscious memories of being an unlucky bungler continued to haunt him, manifesting as a cowardly streak in battle. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/09/09}}

==Toys==
===''Animated''===
[[File:Waspinatoranimateddeluxe.jpg|right|upright=1.67|thumb|Finally Blackarachnia has a pal... and by "pal", we mean "guinea pig".]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, 2009 / 2010)}}</ul>
:*''Takara ID number:'' '''TA-37'''
:*''Takara release date'': [[August 28]], 2010
{{toydesigner|[[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro), [[Alex Kubalsky]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

: Part of the sixth wave of ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Animated]]'' Deluxe Class toys, Waspinator transforms from a techno-organic wasp into a techno-organic, four-armed, winged robot. In both modes, a lever on the thorax flaps his wings back and forth via spring-loaded internal gearing mechanism.

: His antennae are made of softer rubber, to allow them to be wedged within his insect head, as well as [[for safety reasons]].

: Takara also released Waspinator in the seventh wave of their [[Transformers Animated (toyline)#TakaraTomy Animated toyline|''Animated'' toyline]] years later. Waspinator is mostly the same, though the silver paint on his insect-mode head has been expanded down to his mouthparts, plus his Decepticon symbol is now colored purple with a white outline, rather than the Hasbro version's plain gold.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/Waspinator/waspinator.htm More information on Waspinator at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Fugitive}}
[[File:AnimatedFugitiveWaspinator.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Because nobody would buy "Forcefully Paint-Altered Bumblebee".]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Fugitive Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, <s>2010</s>)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Detachable twin boosters
{{toydesigner|[[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

: "Fugitive Waspinator", apparently named such because of [[trademark]] issues with the name "Wasp", represents Wasp before he became a freak mutant. He is a simple [[redeco]] of [[Bumblebee (Animated)#Deluxe|Deluxe class Bumblebee]], transforming into a green sub-compact hatchback. The two halves of his stinger weapon, stored in his forearms, can be flipped out and pegged together (presumably, this mold would have used the corrected version that allows them to fully retract into his forearms). In both robot and car mode, his two booster rockets can be attached on his back. In addition, although not shown in the cartoon, both Waspinator's windows and headlights are tinted purple in order to give him a more Beast Wars-like appearance while retaining his original vehicle form.

: While he was actually unaligned at the point in the cartoon when Wasp had this [[alternate mode]], Fugitive Waspinator is a Decepticon for simple branding purposes.

: At his reveal at [[BotCon 2009]], [[Hasbro]] explained that "...either [[Ironhide (Animated)#Toys|Ironhide]] got a new head, or Wasp did." They went with the former... which turned out for the better, since Wasp was ultimately never released.
{{canceledtoy}}

===''Age of the Primes''===
[[File:AOP-Deluxe-Fugitive-Waspinator.JPG|right|thumb|300px|After 15 years, I'm finally here. Better late than never I suppose.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Fugitive Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, [[2025]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' 2 stingers, 2 rocket boosters
{{toydesigner|[[Mark Maher]] (Hasbro), [[Yūya Ōnishi]] (TakaraTomy)}}<ref>[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Zhi6Y6EkU/ ''Age of the Primes'' panel] with [[Hasbro]] designer [[Mark Maher]] at [[Cybertron Con 2024]] Day 1, recorded at the "Giant Peng Peng" (巨大化鹏鹏) BilliBilli channel.</ref>

: Part of the first wave of ''[[Age of the Primes]]'' Deluxes, Fugitive Waspinator is a redeco and retool of [[Bumblebee (Animated)/toys#Legacy|Legacy United Animated Bumblebee]] that transforms into a green and black police hatchback. Wasp also comes with turbo boosters, which can be pegged onto his back in robot mode or the sides of his vehicle mode.

: Also included are his signature stinger weapons, which can be combined with the boosters mentioned above to be used as handheld weapons (or as "boost" effects), but they can also be attached to his arms by flipping the hands around. Unfortunately the ports on his wrists are angled specifically for the combined stinger attack, so using the two stingers separately looks rather awkward.

: Despite utilizing an "unaligned"-styled rub sign in the cartoon, Wasp features a Decepticon insignia, just like the previously-cancelled figure.

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
* The small, vestigial arms present on the Deluxe Waspinator toy's [[robot mode]] torso have their origin in an early design concept for [[Lockdown (Animated)|Lockdown]]; the bounty hunter robot's [[character model]] was subsequently altered to make his appearance less monstrous, but [[Derrick J. Wyatt]] loved the concept of the vestigial arms enough to incorporate them instead into Waspinator's design.<ref>[http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2008/05/evolution-of-lockdown.html The Evolution of Lockdown] and [http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2008/10/tfa-s3-chin-on.html TFA S3: CHIN ON!]</ref>
* The signature quote given to Waspinator on his toy packaging is "Waspinator rules!", one of several phrases associated with the original ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]]'' incarnation of Waspinator. He uttered it in "[[A Better Mousetrap]]" and "[[Maximal, No More]]".
* Derrick Wyatt stated on his blog that this incarnation of Waspinator is inspired by his ''Beast Wars'' counterpart, but made more monstrous and buglike. Wyatt examined photographs of actual wasps, nature shows like ''Life in the Undergrowth'' and monster movies for inspiration. The FX studio, Audio Circus, added insectoid clicks and other background sounds for the character.<ref>[http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2009/04/oh-canada-here-i-come.html Oh Canada, here I come!]</ref>
* In technorganic mode, Waspinator is capable of firing energy blasts from his vestigial arms. This appears to be the mutated version of his original stinger attack, similar to Elita-1/Blackarachnia retaining her downloading power.
* Wasp is the only character to have shown three different bodies throughout the show (a Cybertronian race car, a green version of Bumblebee's Earthen car mode, and a giant wasp).
* Wasp wears the [[65356-9292-346]] [[body-type]].
* His last scene is an homage to the original ''Beast Wars'' Waspinator, who had a habit of getting blown to pieces and putting himself back together.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Wasp''' (ワスプ ''Wasupu''), '''Waspinator''' (ワスピネーター ''Wasupinētā'')
*''Russian:'' '''Osa''' (Оса, "Wasp")

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Age of the Primes Decepticons]]
[[Category:Animated Autobots]]
[[Category:Animated Decepticons]]
[[Category:Animated Predacons]]
[[Category:Hall of Fame characters]]
[[Category:Turncoats]]

Wasp

2024-12-07T00:12:51Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Age of the Primes */

{{factions|autobot|decepticon|predacon|hofsilver}}
{{disambig3|Waspinator}}
:''Wasp is an [[Autobot]]-turned-[[Decepticon]] from the [[Animated continuity family]].''

[[File:WaspAnimated-botmodel.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Wasp and Bee. Obvious, with hindsight.]]

'''Wasp''' is a lot like [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]]... physically, at least. Built from the same chassis and sharing many of the same specifications and subroutines, the two Autobots attended boot camp together. Wasp's pompous, smarmy personality leaves something to be desired, but he had a lot going for him as a soldier, being highly skilled in the use of his stingers and knowing just how to toe the line with the drill sergeant. In a better life, he might have been [[Elite Guard]] commander material.

''Might'' have.

These days, though, Wasp is a broken bot, mentally unstable and on the run from the Autobots who have branded him a traitor. And, thanks to [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Blackarachnia]]'s experimentation, he's been reformatted into '''Waspinator''', a high-powered, techno-organic monstrosity. What little remains of his mind is focused on just one goal... destroying Bumblebee, the bot who ruined his life!

{{bigquote|You were always mean to me and Bumblebee. You may not be a traitor... but you were ''never'' a good bot.|[[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] tells Wasp off|"[[Where Is Thy Sting?]]"}}

==Fiction==
===''Animated'' cartoon===
{{Idw-tfa}}
{{voiceactor|[[Tom Kenny]] (English), [[Bumper Robinson]] (English, "Where Is Thy Sting?"), [[Kenji Nojima]] (Japanese, Wasp), [[Kensō Katō]] (Japanese, Waspinator)|[[Jaron Löwenberg]] (German), [[Luca Sandri]] (Italian), [[Rodrigo Contreras]] (Latin-American Spanish, seasons 1 and 2), [[Daniel Lema]] (Castilian Spanish), [[Marco Aurélio Campos]] (Portuguese), [[Nelson Machado]] (Portuguese, season 3), [[Petri Hanttu]] (Finnish), [[Vincent Violette]] (French, Wasp), [[Bruno Magne]] (French, "Where Is Thy Sting?"), [[Sylvain Lemarié]] (French, Waspinator)}}

[[File:WaspAutobot.jpg|left|thumb|upright=0.85|This can't end well.]]

Wasp was a cadet in the same group as Bumblebee, [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]], [[Ironhide (Animated)|Ironhide]] and [[Shockwave (Animated)|Longarm]]. Right away, Wasp took a dislike to Bumblebee, insulting him out of the blue as the yellow bot mused to himself about his future in the Elite Guard. He also dubbed Bulkhead a "[[Mudflap (slang)|mudflap]]," much to the amusement of his fellow cadets. The loud-mouthed drill sergeant [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Sentinel Minor]] took an immediate liking to "Wasp," as he dubbed him due to being impressed with his accuracy with his stingers–it was Bumblebee "bumbling" in trying to compete with this that led to his own name being assigned. Wasp and Ironhide quickly became close friends, often competing in little tests of strength, usually involving Wasp hitting or stinging Ironhide while the latter was in armor mode.

After Bumblebee "bumbled" several more times, leading to many [[transform-up]]s for the whole group, Wasp and Ironhide decided to take matters into their own hands, unscrewing Bumblebee's lower legs and leaving them out of reach even before they dumped the rest of him in a locker.

Unbeknown to Wasp, however, the reason for Bumblebee's foul-ups was that he was trying to out a traitor in the group—and had pegged Wasp as the likely culprit after seeing him walk out of a hangar in which someone had contacted [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]]. (Plus, let's face it, he was a complete jerk. And [[Decepticon]]s are jerks, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|right?]]) At Longarm's prompting, Bumblebee eventually found evidence incriminating Wasp as a spy. Wasp was stripped of his Autobot insignia and wheeled away, protesting his innocence and swearing revenge on Bumblebee.

[[File:WaspAnimated2.jpg|thumb|Wasp was once a 'Bot...]]

Many years later, Wasp escaped from Autobot custody and apparently eluded the now-Sentinel Prime by jumping through a [[space bridge]]. What was left of Wasp hid beneath the bridge as Sentinel left, [[Waspinator (BW)|buzzing and twittering to himself]], still swearing revenge on "Bumblebot." In reality, however, the innocent bot—broken mentally by his years of imprisonment—had been set up with evidence planted by "Longarm," who had also arranged Wasp's "escape" to divert suspicion from himself. {{storylink|Autoboot Camp}}

Needless to say, when the truth was revealed to Bumblebee by his old "friend," Longarm Prime (aka the Decepticon Shockwave), he took it pretty hard. {{storylink|A Bridge Too Close, Part II|A Bridge Too Close, Part II}}

Wasp headed straight for the Autobots' base on Earth, with Sentinel Prime and [[Jazz (Animated)|Jazz]] in pursuit. Waiting until Bumblebee was left alone on monitor duty (and actually playing ''[[Ninja Gladiator]]'' instead), he struck during a power outage, knocking Bumblebee cold and switching color schemes, helmets and even speech synthesizers with his rival. When Bumblebee came to, the others had returned and had him prisoner, with the disguised Wasp at their side. Despite Bumblebee's muffled cries, the Autobots fell for Wasp's ruse, forcing Bumblebee to flee into the night. Wasp stayed behind as the others tracked Bumblebee down, allowing him to try beating Bumblebee's video game and to search through Bumblebee's personal files.

[[File:WhereIsThySting-Bumblebeecreepilydefeated.jpg|left|thumb|Bee-st Wars!]]

When the others returned, joined by Sentinel, Jazz, [[Jetfire (Animated)|Jetfire]] and [[Jetstorm (Animated)|Jetstorm]], Wasp was able to recount several of Bumblebee's adventures which were logged in his files to keep the Autobots confused as to which bot was which. Unfortunately for Wasp, [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] proposed the two battle against each other in ''Ninja Gladiator'', so that Bumblebee's video game skills would be readily apparent and the traitor revealed. Before their video game could begin, Wasp panicked and attacked Bumblebee, holding him hostage so he could make his escape. Wasp left Bumblebee with one final indignity, turning off the [[electronic paint job]] he'd installed in Bee and stealing his helmet back... tricking Bulkhead into pummeling the real Bumblebee while Wasp fled. {{storylink|Where Is Thy Sting?}}

The Autobots continued to pursue an erratic Wasp, though for different reasons: Sentinel Prime was still commanding the Elite Guard to bring him in on suspicion of treason, while Optimus and Bumblebee just wanted to help him (or at least keep him from damaging himself and bystanders during his crazed flight). In the midst of a pursuit through the streets of Detroit, Bumblebee tried once again to convince Wasp that he was now known to be innocent and was set up by Longarm, but Wasp refused to listen. During the chase, Wasp was suddenly abducted by [[Swoop (Animated)|Swoop]], who carried him to [[Dinobot Island (Animated)|Dinobot Island]].

[[File:PredaconsRising Waspinator.jpg|thumb|"Wazzpinator is back...and Wazzpinator tired of being comic relief."]]

Wasp soon found himself in [[Meltdown (Animated)|Meltdown]]'s old underground lab going ga-ga over [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Blackarachnia]]. The spiderbot used her feminine wiles and familiar-sounding sob stories of Autobot betrayal to win Wasp's trust, and she convinced him to undergo an organic power augmentation procedure by impressing him with the ferocity of her own [[beast mode]] (while shielding him from seeing the disfigured mutant corpses left behind from her prior experiments). Wasp entered one [[unspace|transwarp]] chamber, a real organic wasp was put into another, and out came... Waspinator, three times larger than before, with more powerful energy "stings" and a deeper, heavily processed, voice. Waspinator also now sported a Decepticon insignia, indicating a final break away from the Autobots on his part.

When he was finally tracked down by Bumblebee, who apologized to him and wanted to be his friend, he decided that while "Wasp" forgave his former accuser, "Waspinator" preferred violent revenge. Talk about Jekyll and Hyde. But before Waspinator could deliver the final blow, he overheard Blackarachnia admitting to the Autobots that she only viewed her new "friend" as another experimental attempt to cure her own organic infection. Irate at yet another betrayal, Waspinator started attacking everybody—and if that wasn't scary enough, his transwarp energy became unstable. Just as Waspinator reached critical mass, Blackarachnia sealed them both within a cocoon of her energy webbing, containing the explosion of transwarp energy.

[[File:TFAni Predacons Rising Waspinator Hazz Planzzz.jpg|thumb|left|Some assembly required.]]

While only a crater was left on Dinobot Island, Waspinator and Blackarachnia were teleported by the transwarp energy to an unknown jungle. Although reduced to pieces by the explosion, Waspinator was still functional, and slowly began putting himself back together. After all, he couldn't go offline yet... because "Wazzzpinator hazz planzzz!" {{storylink|Predacons Rising (Animated)|Predacons Rising}}

''At the time of [[Cheetor (Animated)|Cheetor]]'s demotion from Transtech to Iacon Central, a wanted poster for Wasp was hung outside [[Depth Charge (Animated)|Depth Charge]]'s office.'' {{storylink|Moving Violations}}
{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
In [[Malgus 508.6 Zeta]], the destruction of Dinobot Island blasted Waspinator's spark clear of his body and into [[Unspace]]. It was eventually discovered by the dimension-hopping Jhiaxus of [[Viron 903.0 Beta]], who used it to power a [[protoform]] [[blank]] who would become [[Thrust (Attacktix)|Thrust]]. Although Thrust cultivated a suave and confident persona, his subconscious memories of being an unlucky bungler continued to haunt him, manifesting as a cowardly streak in battle. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/09/09}}

==Toys==
===''Animated''===
[[File:Waspinatoranimateddeluxe.jpg|right|upright=1.67|thumb|Finally Blackarachnia has a pal... and by "pal", we mean "guinea pig".]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, 2009 / 2010)}}</ul>
:*''Takara ID number:'' '''TA-37'''
:*''Takara release date'': [[August 28]], 2010
{{toydesigner|[[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro), [[Alex Kubalsky]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

: Part of the sixth wave of ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Animated]]'' Deluxe Class toys, Waspinator transforms from a techno-organic wasp into a techno-organic, four-armed, winged robot. In both modes, a lever on the thorax flaps his wings back and forth via spring-loaded internal gearing mechanism.

: His antennae are made of softer rubber, to allow them to be wedged within his insect head, as well as [[for safety reasons]].

: Takara also released Waspinator in the seventh wave of their [[Transformers Animated (toyline)#TakaraTomy Animated toyline|''Animated'' toyline]] years later. Waspinator is mostly the same, though the silver paint on his insect-mode head has been expanded down to his mouthparts, plus his Decepticon symbol is now colored purple with a white outline, rather than the Hasbro version's plain gold.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/Waspinator/waspinator.htm More information on Waspinator at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Fugitive}}
[[File:AnimatedFugitiveWaspinator.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Because nobody would buy "Forcefully Paint-Altered Bumblebee".]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Fugitive Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, <s>2010</s>)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Detachable twin boosters
{{toydesigner|[[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

: "Fugitive Waspinator", apparently named such because of [[trademark]] issues with the name "Wasp", represents Wasp before he became a freak mutant. He is a simple [[redeco]] of [[Bumblebee (Animated)#Deluxe|Deluxe class Bumblebee]], transforming into a green sub-compact hatchback. The two halves of his stinger weapon, stored in his forearms, can be flipped out and pegged together (presumably, this mold would have used the corrected version that allows them to fully retract into his forearms). In both robot and car mode, his two booster rockets can be attached on his back. In addition, although not shown in the cartoon, both Waspinator's windows and headlights are tinted purple in order to give him a more Beast Wars-like appearance while retaining his original vehicle form.

: While he was actually unaligned at the point in the cartoon when Wasp had this [[alternate mode]], Fugitive Waspinator is a Decepticon for simple branding purposes.

: At his reveal at [[BotCon 2009]], [[Hasbro]] explained that "...either [[Ironhide (Animated)#Toys|Ironhide]] got a new head, or Wasp did." They went with the former... which turned out for the better, since Wasp was ultimately never released.
{{canceledtoy}}

===''Age of the Primes''===
[[File:AOP-Deluxe-Fugitive-Waspinator.JPG|right|thumb|300px|After 15 years, I'm finally here. Better late than never I suppose.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d1|'''Fugitive Waspinator''' (Deluxe Class, [[2025]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' 2 stingers, 2 rocket boosters

: Part of the first wave of ''[[Age of the Primes]]'' Deluxes, Fugitive Waspinator is a redeco and retool of [[Bumblebee (Animated)/toys#Legacy|Legacy United Animated Bumblebee]] that transforms into a green and black police hatchback. Wasp also comes with turbo boosters, which can be pegged onto his back in robot mode or the sides of his vehicle mode.

: Also included are his signature stinger weapons, which can be combined with the boosters mentioned above to be used as handheld weapons (or as "boost" effects), but they can also be attached to his arms by flipping the hands around. Unfortunately the ports on his wrists are angled specifically for the combined stinger attack, so using the two stingers separately looks rather awkward.

: Despite utilizing an "unaligned"-styled rub sign in the cartoon, Wasp features a Decepticon insignia, just as the previously-cancelled figure.

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
* The small, vestigial arms present on the Deluxe Waspinator toy's [[robot mode]] torso have their origin in an early design concept for [[Lockdown (Animated)|Lockdown]]; the bounty hunter robot's [[character model]] was subsequently altered to make his appearance less monstrous, but [[Derrick J. Wyatt]] loved the concept of the vestigial arms enough to incorporate them instead into Waspinator's design.<ref>[http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2008/05/evolution-of-lockdown.html The Evolution of Lockdown] and [http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2008/10/tfa-s3-chin-on.html TFA S3: CHIN ON!]</ref>
* The signature quote given to Waspinator on his toy packaging is "Waspinator rules!", one of several phrases associated with the original ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]]'' incarnation of Waspinator. He uttered it in "[[A Better Mousetrap]]" and "[[Maximal, No More]]".
* Derrick Wyatt stated on his blog that this incarnation of Waspinator is inspired by his ''Beast Wars'' counterpart, but made more monstrous and buglike. Wyatt examined photographs of actual wasps, nature shows like ''Life in the Undergrowth'' and monster movies for inspiration. The FX studio, Audio Circus, added insectoid clicks and other background sounds for the character.<ref>[http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2009/04/oh-canada-here-i-come.html Oh Canada, here I come!]</ref>
* In technorganic mode, Waspinator is capable of firing energy blasts from his vestigial arms. This appears to be the mutated version of his original stinger attack, similar to Elita-1/Blackarachnia retaining her downloading power.
* Wasp is the only character to have shown three different bodies throughout the show (a Cybertronian race car, a green version of Bumblebee's Earthen car mode, and a giant wasp).
* Wasp wears the [[65356-9292-346]] [[body-type]].
* His last scene is an homage to the original ''Beast Wars'' Waspinator, who had a habit of getting blown to pieces and putting himself back together.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Wasp''' (ワスプ ''Wasupu''), '''Waspinator''' (ワスピネーター ''Wasupinētā'')
*''Russian:'' '''Osa''' (Оса, "Wasp")

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Age of the Primes Decepticons]]
[[Category:Animated Autobots]]
[[Category:Animated Decepticons]]
[[Category:Animated Predacons]]
[[Category:Hall of Fame characters]]
[[Category:Turncoats]]

Talk:Thirteen

2024-12-06T15:20:11Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Toys Section */

==Multiversal singularities==
Are the first 13 all "continuity singularities" as Primus and Unicron are? One version existing across all realities? Vector Prime definately seems to be, and Maccadam as well if you include "Prime Spark" as cannon. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

How can Unicron jump continuities wih all his different HISTORIES? he spent MILLIONS OF YEARS as Cybertrons' MOON fergods sake!

The whole singularities thing is a godawful mess. You have to start acceptign that Unicron, who DEMONSTRABLY spends tens or tens of MILLIONs of years in individual continuities is time-travelign as WELL as jumping continuities. Which is fine, but for some reason in the Armada comic he doesn't, and no one's ever even HEARD of Unicron before, he's a completely external threat with no history in this universe.

But then, I think brad Mick intended Thundercracker to be one of the 13, so what do I know? It's not like I have a decent track record at pattern recognition or anything... ''*cough*predaconpolitics*cough*''

Also, IS Primus a singularity across all continuities? I could have sworn we saw him DIE. ''I hate the sucky TFU-type Multiverse! it sucks, it sucks '''so hard''' Gregory!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

...why is it impossible that no one's ever heard of Unicron in the Armada universe until he shows up? It makes perfect sense to me. Hell, the only person who's ever even investigated or shown more than a little interest Cybertron's past in the Armadaverse is Overrun, and he was from another universe anyway. If there's only one Unicron and infinite universes, of COURSE he's going to be new to some of them! Derik, start making sense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

but if he's new to SOMe of them, how is he ancient in MANY of them? :~( does he exist simultaneously in the past of many universes? The marvel US Comic and Aramda toon BOTh, for instance, have Unicron at different locations in space in the year 2020. Is he time-traveling?

I guess mostly i just bitch because I think it sucks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

I took it as a given that he time-travels when he moves between dimensions. This isn't really that hard to figure out, man. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Say, do we know enough about how the TF multiverse works to say for sure that when it's 1977 in one universe it's 1977 in them all?
--[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

The Ultimate Guide refers to the non-Fallen original Cybertronic Transformers as "Prima and the Twelve", which, while not clear, implies to me that Prima is in addition to the twelve. Also, I see no reason to casually discount Primon's existence or Matrix-holding simply because we know Prima was the first Transformer on Cybertron - we know there were Transformers before Cybertron because the Covenant of Primus predate its creation. Primon could have held the Matrix before Prima ever existed.

Maccaddam being anything other than a bar-owner was a goddamn joke, and Legends explicitly de-continuities itself so its stories can't be used to support arguments. Prime Spark was a WARendfeld story anyway.

''(next part of argument contains minor spoilers for the club comic''

And I don't understand the concern about Unicron at all. He's not one guy who travels between all continuities, he's a single entity that exists in all continuities (or none, presently) simultaneously. That's why the Unicron the TFU away team flew to was in the depths of our space in Year-The-End-Of-BM-Plus-One but vanished when the Unicron in Energon was destroyed. Simply because he was a dormant moon in the Armadaverse in 1991 has no bearing on his activities in 1991 in the G1 comic (eating Cybertron) or the G1 cartoon (cruising around the universe to a groovy synth soundtrack). The same is clearly true of Primus - otherwise, you have to assume he's been physically dimension-hopping-and-time-travelling around the multiverse as well, which is not the case because otherwise there would only be a Cybertron in one universe at any given time. The club comic's discussion of Cybertron-as-hinge-point supports my view, I think.

Vector Prime is unlike Unicron and Primus in that he is a single entity existing in a single continuity at any given time, no different from Axer. It's possible that one of the Twelve in every continuity is a Vector Prime analogue, but in my opinion we don't have nearly enough evidence to say one way or another. -[[User:LV|LV]] 15:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree strongly, LV. Though Unicron has the ability to move between dimensions at will, he is confined to one universe at a time. According to the Club comic itself, Primus is "a single, infinite curvea cross all realities; the only truly unique thing in all of creation." Unicron is "bound always by his imprisonment in a physical body, he's been incapable of destroying mroe than one reality at a time." Thing is, being dead in the black hole *changed*this dynamic. The Unicron singularity is what has, for the first time, consolidated the Unicron of allwhens into one black hole which is beginning to perpetuate itself across every timeline. This is why Cybertron's Unicron is beginning to affect Universe's Unicron. This occurrence is a new situation, unique to this storyline. It can't be used as evidence to support Unicron's properties in normal circumstances. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Then I agree with Derik. If Unicron only exists one place at one time, it is essentially irreconcilable with what has been shown in the fiction. If Unicron can happily time-travel when he changes dimensions, then there is nothing preventing him from existing in all dimensions simultaneously. He simply travels to the beginning of each when he leaves the previous one, thus existing linearly from his own perspective but simultaneously across all universes from every single other being's. You cannot have a time-and-space-travelling Unicron and a Unicron that can only be in one dimension at a time from any perspective but his own. In other words, as was said already, we can definitely place Unicron in at least two continuities in 1991, since he was actively eating Cybertron and orbiting Cybertron. If canon says otherwise, then it's canon, but it is fundamentally illogical and unworkable. And yes yes, transforming aliens from a planet the size of Saturn made of metal blah blah blah, but there is "unrealistic premise" and there is "an explanation which in no ways accounts for any of the material it purports to explain". But oh well. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

But they were two different 1991s, man, in different timelines. He's not in 1991 twice at the same time, he's in two distinct 1991s at different times. Hell, as Kil said above, we don't even know that when it's 1977 in one universe, it's 1977 in them all. Hell, when it's 2030AD in the Unicron Trilogy, it's been demonstrated that it's apparently ~2350AD in Generation 1! I do not see it as irreconcileable. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing which is better illustrated with a picture, but Unicron CANNOT time-travel when changing dimensions without allowing the possibility of existing in multiple continuities simultaneously. That is just the way it is with multiple simultaneously-existing timelines. If you do not want them to be the same year, that is fine. Unicron can nonetheless exist in 2030AD in UT and 2350AD in G1 simultaneously if he can time-travel.

It is not an issue for debate; the canon says what it says. However, the canonical explanation is irrational. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Here I was thinking no one would respond to this while I was at work and I come back to "this." Let's put this in talking points:

1) Primus is one single pan-dimensional being existing simultaniously in all continuities. We're all agreed on that right? We can like it or dislike it, but at the moment that's what cannon says.

2)Unicron has only ever existed in one continuity at a time (until Cybertron). Fine. Let's look at that. It *IS*odd that the brothers would be different this way without explination and that if he could jump through time and dimensions completely at will he wouldn't always jump to the begining of each one, and so, yes, to all perspectives but his own exist everywhen at once. There are two possible solutions to that part of the issue: either A) He can't travel through time in an unlimited fasion but only make small jumps time-wise or with great difficulty, or B) He cannot travel in time at all, not even when he jumps universes, but as Walky suggested, time is not in the same reletive place across universe. ie - When it's 1985 in the cartoon maybe it's only 1945 in the IDW books. If he jumped between them he would seem to travel intime but would not actually do so. Do those work, at least as a plausible enough to forget the iffyness solutions?

3)Why dismiss Maccadam as a joke? The entry in the DK guide seemed perfectly serious to me. Did it leave question as to whether it was true or a rummor? Sure. But I don't see anything that leans the suggestion one way or another. I rather like the idea myself. Legends, does put itself purposefully out of continuity, true, BUT when you're dealing with a multiverse can you totally do that? I mean if there are infinite universes the ones from Legends must be included in their somewhere right?

4)Getting back to my original question: Is the concensus that there are multiple Vector Prime's across continuities? It just seems that if his job is to safeguard space time that'd make things awefully complicated with ALL of him jumping around and constantly running into each other. Would one single Primus make an infinitude of reality jumping Vector Primes? And if he did, why doesn't an infinite army of VPs show up at each trouble spot to deal with the problem and wipe out and Unicron/Decepticon problems while they're at it? So far we've only seen ONE Vector Prime at work across the whole spectrum of past TF universe. We're sure he's not a singularity?

[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I can no longer make conclusions about Vector Prime based on the ludicrous canonical explanation for Unicron, so I abstain from commenting on him. However, I maintain that the reference in the UG to Maccaddam is clearly a joke - they're talking about a bar, and they immediately say that this absurd claim that the barkeeper is a legendary ancient Transformer with the observation that they serve extremely strong drinks. It's a joke about being drunk. Entirely in-character for Furman. -[[User:LV|LV]] 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

See I just don't read the Maccadam entry that way at all. It reads serious to me. The final line is meant to put a bit of humorus doubt on the rest, but only a bit of doubt/mystery IMO. Maccadam's has always been a bit of a special place and a pet local of Furman's and I can totally see him quite seriously setting it up to be used this way. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ in our takes on it. The important thing for the Wikki is that Maccadam remains a rumored, but not confirmed, member of the 13. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I had another thought, the better to muddy the waters. With Unicron and Primus having god or near-god status, could their being the same, er, being doesn't necessarily mean they're actually bouncing back and forth between dimensions and times all the time? Could they be 'aspects' or 'splinters' of the same being?
(Way to be obscure: There's a ''Doctor Who'' story called ''The City of Death'' which has a neat example, but moving on...)
This could be what makes them so hard to finally kill, if they've got the entirety of their 'selves' spread out across multiple realities at a time. This also means it's not hard for Unicron to attack in the Marvel reality in 1991, the Dreamwave UT reality in 2003, the Movie reality in 2005, and so on. He doesn't (always) travel between dimensions, he just already exists that way.
Hmmm...OK, maybe that made sense.
[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 05:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

:If Macadam as a member of the 13 was a joke, why did the pictue of Macadam's bad show characters from multiple continuities?

:Everyone sseems really comfortable saying "There's only one Primus, just liek Unicron." I admit I've msised some material lately- vould someone please tell me '''where''' this was established? Because-- we've kinda seen Primus die.

::and Unicron. But it's a fair point. For all their apparent similarities, Primus and Unicron represent fundamentally different things, so it's not unreasonable to assume that some aspects of them differ wildly. If Unicron represents chaos, then his random appearances and contradictory histories suddenly make quite a bit more sense to me. He's not MEANT to obey the normal rules. It's against his very nature.

:Unicron time-traveling I dont' really gundamentally have a hard time accepting. We saw in Worlds Collide (?) that the untuned Transwarp Space Bridge portals were flittign across space AND time, showing pictures of the distant past (BW) and buture (BW Neo/BM) as well as plainly laternate worlds (RiD.) So it's '''possible''' that Whisper's world Unicron was coming from int he very deep and distant future, and he decided that the Armada-toonverse was weak and ignorant enough he could just show up in the present and demolish it, and didn't need to lay deep plans to do so.

:But- where the hell did dreamwave!Armada's Mini-cons come from then if not Unicron?

:Has Unicron even marauded across 'infinite' realities? In Worlds Collide they call it his ''Ninth Emergence.'' That's not infinite realities. That's '''nine''' realities. And so what was up with Primus saying Unicron ate the previous Universe in us!Marvel#74? Was he just '''lying''' for no reason?

:My main complaint witht he Multiversal Unicron we were presented with si that it '''doesn't make sense''', not that they didnt' explain it all, it's that '''no''' possible explanation seems to explain it all. And not tiny inconstencies- massive, glaring fundamentally unworkable inconsistencies. Inconsistencies even in the material generated that's suppsoed to explain how this all works!

:Kang's explanation form Marvel comics, with time-travel and th war to pin down his various aspects works. Except- we'rs '''explicitly told''' that no, that's '''not''' the case. So... bah. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Primus and Unicron exist across multiple continuities, because they are Gods, and represent chaos and order. However, they CAN be removed from a given continuty, and still continue to exist in others.

Vector Prime exists across all continuities and times, because it's in his job description. (Even though he technically died, his "younger self" is still in the timestream, capable of visiting anywhere and anywhen.)

We know Unicron can manipulate time (Like when he yanked Galvatron II from a future timeline to use as his minion in the present) so it makes sense that he can travel through time. The only incongruity with this is if he is indeed a single entity hopping through timelines, then why would the Unicron singularity mess with him while he was in the Universe.. err.. Universe. It either wouldn't have happened to him yet, or would have been in his past; either way he wouldn't have gotten sucked into it from a different universe unless he either was a multiple Universe entity like Primus, or the singularity is something that winds up being both in his past and his future an infinite ammount of times.--[[User:UndeadScottsman|UndeadScottsman]] 07:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

------------------------------------
Wasn't The Last Autobot called such, because he was the last Autobot made by Primus? Shouldn't he have been one of the 13?

Or am I totally off base here? Again.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Without more information, it's impossible to say. As far as I can tell, he's unique to the G1 comic continuity. Though he otherwise bears a number of striking resemblences to Vector Prime. In any case, this debate is probably better suited for [[Talk:Last_Autobot]].

T^he last Autobot was a name given to him by those who came later, not Primus. He's also known as The Ultimate Warrior and The Soulof Cybertron. He is convieniently refered to as TLA by fans because 1) his true name was never revealed 2) That was the tittle of one of the issues of the Marvel comic, giving the most 'weight' to that name of his 3. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
:(Part of comment deleted. I misread your statement. Sorry.) TLA is actually referred to as such by Optimus Prime on several occasions. It was in fact the title of issue #79 (something to keep in mind for disambiguation!), and Spike Witwicky also refers to himself as "TLA" in that issue. But at the same time, I'd say it's reasonably obvious that "TLA" is not the name Primus gave him.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
------------------------------------
As well as being mentioned in a Japanese timeline, Alpha Trion actually specically states that he is "a first generation product of Vector Sigma" in the TV show. Can't be sure of the episode offhand, but is very probably The Key To Vector Sigma.

I think that this may rule him out of being one of the Thirteen. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

:Really? I would have thought it made Alpha Trion an especially good candidate. I guess it comes down to what one considers Vector Sigma to be.... (By the way, please use signatures!)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Every flashback to the birth of the 13 shows them arising full-born from the ground. No Vector Sigma involved. Trion may be among the first of the first 'production generation' that came after that. (This, of course, holds up only until they retcon it, but ancient as Trion always seemed ot me- it was never 'ancient enough to be one of the 13.') -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::::Certainly a plausible interpretation. But I wouldn't consider the matter closed one way or the other.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure the thirteen were supposed to have been created BEFORE Primus became Cybetron. Vector Sigma apparently also pre-dated Cybertron, but I figure Vector Sigma wasn't pressed into service creating Transformers immediately. Infact, probably not 'till the Quintessons came along and installed the shell program that became the Oracle. But as you say, this period of Transformers pre-history is notoriously sketchy. I'll certainly be interested to see if they ever fill in the gaps. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

::::::The only pre-Cybertron Transformers I know of are from the text story [[Reaching the Omega Point]]. Before Primus trapped himself and Unicron in the planetoids, he had to be sure that the trick wour work, and that he would be able to shape his prison. So he shunted a bit of his essence into some lifeless rock and created the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]], 12 Transformers based on our Earth zodiac. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 12:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Implicitly, [[Primon]] must also have been created before Cybertron, since we know he predates Prima as Matrix-holder and we know Prima was the first Transformer created on Cybertron. (Which may actually also imply that the Liege Maximo predates Cybertron... -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::: Doesn't the Leige Maximo say though that when the first named Prime "rose from Cybertron" or something like that that he did too. That definately implies They were created there. Primon I think is simply an annomoly, a glitch in Furman's telling of the story that will likely never be followed up on.
::::::::: [[:Image:Liegemaximo.jpg|Here's the text]]. Considering we don't know when the "first named Prime" was created, that's a meaningless statement, so it's not helpful to us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't this page be at "Thirteen original Transformers"? It would certainly make the bold part at the beginning look better. -[[User:LV|LV]] 06:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
: Done. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

=="Original"?==
Are these guys REALLY the first TFs? My reading of the stories puts the Covenant before them, since the whole idea of the Covenant being a test-run makes any functional predecessors nonsensical. I suppose the argument could be made that The 13 are fundamentally different beings from the rest of Transformerdom - maybe even easier for Primus to create - and a test was still necessary to determine if he could make creatures that were fully mired in space-time. (Though the Covenant was still AWARE of multi-dimensional events, and in fact seemed to serve much the same purpose as The 13...)

But even that aside, there's still the practical notion that The 13 were created ''for'' Cybertron, and Cybertron didn't exist yet when the Covenant was created. So, that having been said, what's the evidence that The 13 are actually "original"?

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Basically: they aren't. If you include the Covenant, the Thirteen aren't the "original" Transformers at all, since they are necessarily predated by the Covenant for all the reasons you cite, as well as, inferentially, Primon and the Liege Maximo. Functionally, they are referred to as the "original thirteen" or "first thirteen" regardless of this, probably because not even Furman thinks about the Covenant when writing TF backstory. I think for logistical purposes it remains a useful name for them on this wiki - without it, they basically don't have any meaningful group name, and that's inconvenient - but I do think there should be some kind of indication in this article that some Transformers are more original than these fellows. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

== The Ancients ==

I'm not sure where to place it, so I put it here as, um, sorta reference. :) --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 08:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:In the original Japanese dub of "Galaxy Force", [[Vector Prime]] is depicted as one of "The Ancients".

:According to the background settings of ''Galaxy Force'' anime, "The Ancients" is the earliest Transformers in the world/continuity of "Galaxy Force" (not "Cyertron").

:Though "The Thirteen" is mentioned by [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html The World of Transformers], the site doesn't confirm that "The Thirteen = The Ancients" by far. What the site only mentioned is that there are two theories of the origin of Transformer race.

:So, by far, The Ancients is not the same group as The Thirteens, unless someday comes up an official information stating they are the same.
::Agreed. So shouldn't someone take the Logos Prime person off? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 17:26, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

== Logos Prime ==

He's in both the confirmed and possible lists. Which is it? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Magnus Maximus moved it to possible, Walky added to confirmed but didn't remove the possible, MM removed the duplicate in "confirmed", Walky blocked MM over it and readded it to "confirmed" while still leaving it in "possible". - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:12, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:: Argh, there's MORE stuff to change back? Is this the same dude we were reverting before? Some dude out there has a really serious hate-on for this Logos Prime thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Uhm... I don't think content was deleted here, just the "confirmed" status of Logos Prime questioned.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:14, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::What's left to confirm? The evidence is stacked up. Logos Prime would have to be the red herring of red herrings to not be what this wiki says, and that's kind of ridiculous. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Derik, what the hell. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:43, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Y'know, ''by definition'' if this 13 crap covers THEWHOLEENTIRETFMULTIVERSEBYE, then Macaddam should be in "confirmed"... :p - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Not in a story that is specifically stated to be non-canon, "just for fun." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:15, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::On a multiverse level, it's impossible NOT to be canon. Which is one of my major problems with this whole pile, actually. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::[[Author intent]] should be something this wiki describes and leaves up to individual fan judgment--not something we firmly take sides on in establishing internal-to-story facts. The entire reason we have articles for the "real" Transformer characters [[Geosensus]] and [[Paddles]] is that Cian's proviso is contradicted by the pre-existing context of a TF Multiverse, which I suspect he never knew existed. Having said that, Legends never actually specifically says Maccadam is one of the 13; it says he's multiversal, which fulfills ''half'' of the joke from the Ultimate Guide.<--Thy, can't login on IE.

So... MM moved the info (not '''deleted''' it, '''moved'''), Walky put the info back in the old place thus meaning the info was now put twice on the page, then banned MM because he removed one of the duplicate instances? Just making sure I got this straight. 
And no, MM is not the same guy we were reverting before. MM is the guy who's been adding a lot of valuable info like missing covers and stuff on the commercial bumper and scene transition pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:16, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, you got it straight. He originally blocked him for a month as "YOU ARE DELETING CONTENT RIGHT NOW", then cut it to a week as "It's not smart to get in a revert war with an admin." - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::Well, then, remind me never to correct any mistakes, because I apparently might get reverted and banned for it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::That occurred to me too... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:So the original change was related to the previous discussion on this talk page about the Ancients not being the same thing as the first Thirteen? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
::Correct. [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=301252&oldid=301026 MM edit 1 diff], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301252 Willis adds a duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301254 MM removes duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301257 Willis reverts previous edit]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:::Based on this, I'm going out on a limb here and unbanning the guy. Seems like a pretty draconian punishment over what appears to be mostly a misunderstanding. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:58, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, that was fun. Thanks for getting this situation sorted, guys. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 09:31, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

== Nexus Maximus ==

The five silhouettes next to Vector Prime seem to strongly resemble the individual components of Nexus Maximus, and since the five are both Transformers and part of a being considered "one of the thirteen", is it possible that they are numbered members as well? I mean, technically they are five transformers that were created in the first batch, so maybe?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I would say no. Nexus Maximus is a member of the 13, but his 5 component pieces aren't. [[Special:Contributions/76.240.201.195|76.240.201.195]] 18:39, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

==Defiance==
To be clear - is that image depicting the trans-dimensional whatsits, or the first batch of "Transformers" made to serve them?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
:The first batch of "Transformers." There are actually two more in a different panel but this was the best group shot. [[:Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|This is]] the creation of the trans-dimensional whatsits. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 07:50, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, then the text needs to make that clearer, because right now it reads as if it's equating these Seekers/Constructicons with the Fallen and such.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 17:42, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Trans-dimensional AllSpark creations ==

Zuh? Why not The Thirteen?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:Well, they aren't Transformers for one thing. They are a separate race. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:15, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::...but we have no reason to believe they're not The Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:16, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh. Hmmm. The 13 aren't Transformers? That article should be renamed then. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:20, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::The article is just... I don't know. I don't think it conveys information. I think if anything it ''obfuscates'' information to obey some sort of semantic point.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:24, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::They do play the same general role. It didn't occur to me that they might be the 13 since they aren't Transformers. The articles would have to be merged carefully. In the live-action continuity there is the Fallen's race ''and'' 13 original Transformers (which would be the first 13 beings of the new Transformer's race). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:41, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::You invented what amounts to a fan term to explain what you believe to be a contradiction. We are needlessly multiplying entities here.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::The Fallen: "It gave us workers, but they were ''not like us''. They were special and were to be the first of ''your race''. Creatures born with the ability to change their forms." It seems pretty clear the Fallen's kind aren't Transformers. The Fallen could be distorting the facts, I suppose (he is The Fallen), or has a fuzzy memory. I'm not against merging this with the 13 Transformers, but I would be interested in how it was explained. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:48, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I dunno, saying that the Fallen and his brothers "aren't Transformers" seems to me to be a bit like saying we shouldn't have [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] in the Female Transformers category. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 22:07, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::Hell, half the Matrix Guides, including Alpha Trion, shouldn't be considered Transformers! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:09, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::That doesn't seem to be a contradiction at all, Starfield. Even in the original continuity that had the thirteen, wasn't transformation an invention from later on? And Vector Prime still was eventually able to do it, so it's not unreasonable to assume that while the Trans-dimensionals weren't ''born'' with the ability to change their form, they modified themselves to do it. Which is why the Fallen can turn into a space fighter now.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:47, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I still propose nuking it, but until we get consensus on that, I'm putting the shenanigans tag on it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:54, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Call me crazy, but I have this feeling there may be an actual name for these dudes soon. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:08, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::And on what are you basing this? I keep asking this, but you keep making up unofficial terms for things.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:15, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::The ROTF adaptation comic. I understand we aren't supposed to use that yet for spoiler reasons. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:22, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Okay, let me spell this out. There is at present no definition of this term you've invented that does not completely overlap with the Thirteen. Every member of the Thirteen is one of these, and every one of these is one of the Thirteen. Even if we accept that this is somehow a meaningful term, there is no way to separate it from the Thirteen. To pretend otherwise is to be painfully obtuse.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Nuke it from orbit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:18, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:Y'all kinda seem to be jumping down Starfield's throat... IITC the Transdimensional beings page was created as a sorta precautionary things back then Alliance was still coming out when we weren't sure how it'd play out-- or even if the Fallen was a multiversal singularity. (We thought probably yes, but there was room foe debate, and the movie stuff IS '''awfully''' messy.)
:...of course it's just as likely that I'm missing something, in which case, please proceed tearing him a new transdimensional arsehole. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'd like a transdimensional arsehole. I bet it would mean you wouldn't even have to get up to go to the bathroom. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'm not taking it personally. It always was kind of a sloppy placeholder. I honestly thought they were going a different direction when I read Defiance 4, but now it looks like it is shaping up pretty good continuity wise. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:41, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's all well and good, but the article, as well as his defense of the term, continued long after its (however dubious) usefulness expired. So, I've nuked the article and archived the discussion here for posterity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:36, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh, is ''that'' what's going on? ''<tt>slowpoke.jpg</tt>''
::::Well, I've certainly been there myself! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:38, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

== Prima ==

Why is Prima on this list? I would have thought Primon would be the more likely choice m'self. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:01, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:He is confirmed in at least one continuity as the first Cybertronian. Thus, he's the first of the Thirteen. Funny, innit?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:03, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Which continuity, and sauce? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:45, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Marvel G1. Not explicitly stated, but able to be deduced.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::::But I don't think Prima should be on there. Primon seem to predate him/her.
::::If a guidebook SAID Prima was one of the 13 or something, that'd be different. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:22, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Well here's how it goes, we have a Marvel G1 issue and a Marvel G2 issue which depict the first Cybertronian. One of those issues depicts said first Cybertronian as the first Matrix-Bearer. Marvel G1 also has a litany of the Matrix-Bearers which the Creation Matrix itself recites at several times during Matrix Quest, thus establishing this figure, though visually quite different the two times we see him, as Prima. So, insofar as anything can be consistent within Marvel G1 given the vast artistic differences which sprang up, the first Cybertronian and first Matrix-Bearer is Prima.

Pri''mon'' however has a far more fuzzy pedigree, a smaller corpus of source material establishing him, and his membership in the Thirteen is also predicated upon the Liege Maximo being a member, which is ''probable'', but as we've discussed before never really confirmed in official source material.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:Your answer is full of fail and conjecture.
:Nevertheless, it got ''me'' to check the source material. The Ultimate Guide explicitly says Prima is one of the 13 on page 15. Further, Prima is their '''leader'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:40, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Were I not at work, I could have done the same. But alas, I am limited until I hop in my car and drive home. I still say my answer is close enough for government work, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:43, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
{{quote|In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.|Tocqueville}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
=="New Divide" video==
Hey, uh, there seems to be a very short clip of what appear to be silhouettes of some of the Thirteen... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:36, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:Which one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:51, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
::I wonder which one Vector Prime is! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:::So can any of our U.K. friends confirm or deny if these are indeed the Thirteen? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:13, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Weeellll... okay, spoilers to be safe... they ARE the Primes, the original Transformers, as it were. But... if I heard the dialogue right, and I'm not SWEARING that I did, but I have seen other people say they heard the same thing... IN the film itself... there are stated to only SEVEN of them. And the events of Defiance are really... at odds with the movie , too. In the gentlest terms. Honestly, I was watching the movie, and every so often something happened to make me go "Aw, fuck, the wiki's going to have its work cut out for it here." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, there's a mistake in there. Seven is definitely the number. The Fallen being so named because he chose to eradicate life in his quest for Energon (think Captain Ranson in Star Trek Voyager "Equinox"). Optimus Prime is apparently their last descendant (how they know this is not explained, nor is the concept of Primes, and why only a Prime can defeat the Fallen, when it looks like anybody can do what Prime finally did). Oh, and none of them look like any of our Primes. In fact they all look like the Fallen (customisers should be buying multiple Fallen toys to make them!) [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 20:05, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

:What a pain. Yet I think that will probably make patching things around the 13 easier.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:11, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::The only thing that would make this work with past information is if the Thirteen aren't multiversal singularities, and since the Powers That Be reconfirmed that at Botcon, I can only assume (or hope) that they have something planned for the Thirteen that will straighten this out. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:21, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::You have to remember, there's already the "oddity" that the birth of these guys 13 doesn't really match other depictions-- and the AllSpark being some sort of sun-destroying monstrosity is... not very Primus-y. I think there's definitely wiggle room here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:25, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oddly, the adaptations say 13. How do we know what we know about the AllSpark and harvesters and the original Transformers? There is only one of them left. He wouldn't lie for his own purposes would he? They could, if they wanted, make much of the ROTF backstory be a load of bullcrap made up by The Fallen. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:46, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Maybe we can wilfully ignore {{redact|the seven thing as a mistake like Brawl/Devastator? In the Feb 2009 issue of Toyfare, producer [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] stated that The Fallen was a member of The Thirteen, and that we should think of the Thirteen as "apostles". So clearly, the movie production did number the Primes as thirteen quite late into post production.}} --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::"Mistakes" do happen in fiction, and we acknowledge them as such. (The art errors in the marvel comic, for example.)
::::::So even if the {{redact|the ancient Primes being the 13}} is a mistake, that still leaves us with The Fallen being The Fallen.
::::::The real question is how ''subsequent'' fiction addresses this. If it keeps re-iterating {{redact|the ancient Primes are the 13}} then that's a problem we have to deal with.
::::::I'm really beginning to suspect that the end scenario is going to be {{redact|there were some ancient beings, 7 in one story, 13 in another}} and just void any connection to the 13 entirely-- then figure out how to deal with The Fallen being The Fallen separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Also, re:{{redact|Devastator... there was a comment on the Brawl talk page recently claiming that the letters page to Titan #3 said that Devastator and Brawl are separate near-identical Transformers.}} Can McSweeny confirm whether this is true or not? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

So I'm watching [http://emopanda.com/tmp/eps/Linkin_Park_-_New_Divide.mp4 New Divide] and I'm confused... is the screencap Walky posted above {{redact|from the beginning of the movie, where everyone was working in the valley, or the end, during SAM's NDE}}? Can someone who's seen the movie answer this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:20, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Haha, this is where it gets {{redact|metaphysical. Sam dies, and the Matrix (which at this point in the film has disintegrated into dust and is kept in a rolled up sock) merges with Sam. The next scene then features Sam in Heaven/The Matrix/Nirvana/The Tunnel with the Light at the End where he meets the Seven Prime/Fallen Clones. They tell him that they have been watching him and that the Matrix is not an object but a state of mind/personality quality, and he's got it, so go wake up from this death and kick some ass. He then is resurrected and the Matrix is now completely reformed into its key/boomerang formation, which he then sticks into Prime's chest. But then somebody else steals it again to stick into the Fallen's Galvatron Machine from the UK comics}} [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 08:04, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Yes I know this. I've read the book. I construe from your response that this screencap is from the latter half of the movie? (It's a yes or no question... god forbid you manage to ''explicitly'' answer it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's a yes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:52, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

It actually works out pretty easily. Those seven don't have to be the ''only'' members of the Thirteen, just the ones that gave their lives to seal The Fallen away and secure the Star Harvester.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Except there are multiple versions of "Movie" continuity (IDW and Titan) and the original 13 are singularities... so how do these 7 manged to die '''twice''' and their corpses show up in different universes? {{redact|for that matter, how does The Fallen manage to die in multiple continuities? He has but one life to give for the Multiverse!}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:24, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Transformers: The Movie Universe implies that The Fallen has to work to maintain corporeality in a universe. It is possible that killing the physical form of one of the Thirteen is nowhere near as final as it may sound.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:::Would Vector Prime's fate at the end of Cybertron support that? I have only passing knowledge of that show but didn't they show him fighting on in some other dimension after his "Death"? That could work on the same principle.--[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 07:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Vector Prime was shown to be fighting Galvatron in the end-credits montage, so he's clearly not completely dead. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:36, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I don't know about Galaxy Force, but in Cybertron, the speech that Vector Prime gave before he died made it sound like if he died in that universe, he would continue to exist in the multiverse but be barred from re-entering that particular universe.

== Logos Prime ==

If the Fallen represents Entropy, and Vector Prime represents time... what would Logos Prime represent? His hub-ship-thing seems to be tied to his "area of responsibility" somehow... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:55, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Opposition or competition? Some kind of "Balancing forces" deal, probably, judging by the story.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::So... "Logos" arguably, logic? 10:39, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think their given names actually have anything to do with their charge - Vector isn't in charge of directions, and Nexus is in charge of Energon, not connections. Maybe the name's are personally chosen, or represent their personalities?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 12:27, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Maybe LP would have been the gaurdian of knowlegde or information? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:03, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

== Twelve Apostles ==

Would it be at all acceptable to mention somewhere on the page the obvious basis of Jesus and the twelve apostles, or even how specific members of the Thirteen seem to be based on specific apostles?

For example:
*Prima is the chosen leader of the thirteen, carries Primus lifeforce in the form of the matrix (and so, is Primus's "child"), and his name even fits the ancient roman naming scheme for your children (well, daughters) - remove "us", fit "a".
*The Fallen is obviously Judas.
*Vector Prime appears to fit the role of Peter - the most loyal, who serves throughout time safeguarding the Transformers. He certainly acts like a space-pope, anyway.

Of course, beyond that, there's unlikely to be any use of the archetype, but would it at least be worth mentioning?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:We have a good source for that comparison with [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]]'s interview in ''Toyfare'' (February 2009). [[Special:Contributions/79.67.234.198|79.67.234.198]] 05:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:I say we don't have enought info though. Afterall, we don't know about the Logo Prime or Nexus Maximus people. --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 14:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::We know that the group as a whole is supposed to act as apostles to Primus. And yes, we can't really fit Logos or Nexus to a historical apostle, but we're extremely unlikely to, because beyond Jesus, Judas, and Peter, the various apostles are only really remembered for Catholic feast holidays, and aren't that culturally significant.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 14:22, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh,yeah...except for 'doubting Thomas'. OK --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
: I think pointing out the 12 disciples exclusively is kind of the wrong move to make at the outset. Group-of-13-and-one-betrays-them is a mythological constant. Like, say, Loki! He storms a group of 12 at Valhalla! It's linked into the superstition about the number 13, which is considered unlucky. Stories would use it for group numbers as foreshadowing! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::Except "Group of thirteen Apostles and one of them is a chosen son of the singular God" is not so much a mythological constant. Unless Zoroastrianism has it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:39, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

==Split 7 Primes from the 13==

There's really nothing to suggest in the film that the 7 are part of the original Transformers. They're just referred to as the leaders of the race. The Fallen's the only one clearly linked to the 13 [[User: Eire|Eire]] 23.58 June 23 09
: Maybe the missing 6 Primes are Vector Prime, Logos Prime, Nexus Prime, the Liege Maximo, Primon, and Some Other Dude, all having adventures elsewhere! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:46, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
::but how? the comic states that The Fallen killed them all so how can they be having adventures in other universes if they're truly omniversial or what ever the f**k they're supposed to be. Anyway I think the idea behind the 13 is crap anyway. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 04:03, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: It's been stated since the Dreamwave era that the original 13, save the Fallen, all died in an early battle with Unicron. And yet Vector Prime! (Who died but didn't.) And Logos Prime! And Nexus Maximus! Tales of these guys' deaths have been greatly exaggerated. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I found what the film states to be ambigious. It didn't say "there were 7 Primes, and that's all that ever existed." --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:14, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: Jetfire said there were 7 Primes leading, and one went bad. I'm not saying that they're the only ones because clearly they weren't (Sentinel and Optimus get a mention after all) but conceptually there seems to be a difference between the 13 originals and just 7 powerful Primes. Apart from the Fallen, it just seems to be a concept loosely connected at best [[User:Eire]] 12.40 June 24th 09

I think we'd be best served, at least, creating a "see main article" for the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and discussing the characters there. Not necessarily splitting it, and certainly merging it back in if any ancillary material clarifies the matter, but we're probably not helping any newbies who have just seen the film and want to read about these characters (if you could go so far as to call these non-entities that), only to wind up deeply confused over why we're insisting there are 13 of them and that they didn't turn in a tomb and such. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

== So They're not all Primes! ==

According to the Hasbro Q&A they are not all Primes, only 7 are. How do we reconsile that with the opening quote. I mean I get it's a retcon but how do we explain it in a sensible ay on this page? Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:35, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:Where were all 13 called "Primes"? Also, from the answer, it seems Hasbro is calling them "The 13". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:40, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

<blockquote style="background:white; padding:1em; border:1px solid #999;">
{{quote|We are the 13, the first, the forgotten, each of us serving a function vital to the survival of the universe. '''Each of us designated a ''Prime''''' and given a function to serve during the long march of infinity.|Vector Prime|"[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]"}}
</blockquote>

::Read the opening quote on this page, Starfield. Actual story material > Q&A answers, in my view. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

::::I vote for "Actual story material > Q&A answers", too. Sometimes I just think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers. By the way, there are only four confirmed members of the The Thirteen, and I don't consider Seven Prime equal The Thirteen despite what Hasbro say, since their origins are quite and obvious different. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:10, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::"Sometimes I think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers"? You do realize that [[Forest Lee]] is both the writer of that Vector Prime: In the Beginning quote and the guy who answers the fiction-related answers for the Q&As? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:03, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yes, I know. Well, I admit I wrote the above too soon (due to the rush of breakfast) and a bit emotional. Of course I didn't mean all of them(the answers, not the answerer), just some of the answers make me have such feeling like this. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:29, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::I don't know. Our criteria for what is canon is "anything that Hasbro approves" since they are the ultimate authority for cannonicity if they come right out and say (As they now have) only 7 of "The Thirteen" were Primes the other 6 were not than that retcon would be the new cannon I think. Especially since it "kinda" patches an existing continuity glitch. Now I admit that claim will be stronger when Hasbro actually releases some story covering this period as they just said they will be doing shortly somehow. But even without that it is a retcon and official I'd say. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:52, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::Hey! I completely missed the quote. I was looking for a citation somewhere. I agree that story > answers. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:07, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Offhand, I'd say that the notion of the "Seven Primes" as opposed to the Thirteen showed up waaaaaaaaay late in the final drafts of Revenge of the Fallen, and thus too late for the adaptations to incorporate it. After all, they even were working up CGI models for all of the Thirteen. It is entirely possible that this change blindsided even Hasbro, and thus they're trying to spackle it up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

I really kinda disagree with reverting the article to the pre-Hasbro-retcon state, as I think it's puting too little weight on Hasbros statement of what is the "truth". But I'm willing to let it go for now, since Hasbro seems to have plans to bring this all to the fore with some sort of fictional spotlight in the near future, we can deal with making the necessary changes when and if that material materializes. :) --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 22:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

== Female 13 member ==
OK. As of a day or two ago, Hasbro says that one of the 13 is female. Boards are already complaining that this messes with established continuity (IDW, Marvel comics). I'm not convinced this is a huge problem, but it does occur to me that, at the moment, there is no canon to support this claim. Only Hasbro's Q&A response, which might be argued as [[authorial intent]] or [[pseudocanon]]. As something not yet confirmed in canon (but only signaled as possible for the future), should it be included here at this time?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 14:52, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

== "Original Epic Warriors"? ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63609] --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 26 November 2009 (EST)

==A Math Joke?==
I've been studying for the GRE, so excuse my nerdiness as a result of quantitative overload: if we go with the Hasbro Q&A response, there are 7 Primes out of 13 original transformers... there are six prime numbers in the set of thirteen positive integers: '''2, 3, 5, 7, 11,''' and '''13''' itself. In addition, a prime number can only be divided by itself or '''1''', making a total of seven mathematical prime-related numbers. It might be assuming too much of Hasbro to consider this a deliberate gag for the nerdiest fans, but if it's a just a coincidence, it's a strange one... should this be noted in the article? [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)
:Exploring that more; [[Prima]] is the '''first''' transformer (and despite bearing the Matrix, is not ''named'' "Prime", but might ''be'' one?), [[Nexus Prime|Nexus Prime]] is made of '''five''' parts, and we also know of [[Logos Prime|Logos Prime]] and [[Vector Prime]], and [[the Fallen]] was a Prime before he... fell. Have any number-related concepts been tied to those last three? I want to assume the Fallen was the '''thirteenth''' of the originals, being furthest from his creator's original design as the last of the batch, and due to the negative connotations of the number; and a ''vector'' can be defined as the course or direction of movement between '''two''' points. [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)

== Exodus Info ==

'''SPOILERS for TF Exodus'''

So Exodus gives us two or three new names for members of the Thirteen.

First there's Megatronus. This is very strongly implied to be the Fallen's original name. But it is still just implied from what I could see. They never come right out and talk about the 13 backstory at length and say the Fallen is Megatronus it just sorta makes the most sense for him to be, given what they do say, if you know the story. So how official do we want to treat that connection?

Second there's Alpha Trion. There's been a lot of chatter that certain stories (especially his evil SG counterpart) breaks the whole "Multiversal Singularity" thing if he's a 13er which he now is. Do we need a note to that effect.?

Lastly is the most questionable case. After talking about Megatronus as a legend at one point a character then mentions Leige Maximo in the next breath as the same type of legendary figure. This could be read as placing him as a 13er as well, but it's never explicately stated clearly. Does it deserve a note, at least in the potential area?

Thoughts?
--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:51, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:Megatronus? I can just imagine the millions of potential joke opportunities that this name comes with.
:Sorry. Anyway, we should have a note next to the Fallen's listing in the confirmed 13ers category saying "Look, his name may or may not be Megatronus." or something to that effect.
:A3 is a huge continuity headache, and we should probably be careful. So, yes, we should definitely have a note.
:And finally, the Liege Maximo isn't ''that'' questionable, but we should keep him in the "possible 13ers" category until other fiction appears and confirms or disproves that.

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:23, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

:(Purely personal speculation) I think Megatronus might be Liege Maximo's original name. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:08, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::As I'm not very familiar with most of the fictions, is there any reason "the Fallen" and "Liege Maximo" couldn't be the same guy? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:13, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::One of them is not on fire and doesn't exactly seem to serve Unicron? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:16, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Has LM ever been in the same story as Unicron? The fire thing seems very minor. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:25, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::LM does sort of resemble an overweight ROTF The Fallen. A little bit. If Megatronus were Liege Maximo, "Megatronus" would be his name, not his "original" name, since "Liege Maximo" is a title. To answer your question, Unicron was quite dead when we first meet Liege Maximo, and there isn't really room in the story for them to have met off-panel in the past. The Fallen and Liege Maximo aren't remotely the same character, but I suppose that could always be retconned. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:01, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Fallen - name forgotten, created alongside first Primes, founder of Decepticons, purged of morality
::::::Liege Maximo - name unknown, created alongside first Prime, ancestor of Decepticons, ultimate evil
::::::Sounds more than remotely similar to me. But I'm not saying it's true, just an idea that bounced around in my head. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:20, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Also no room in ~13.7 billion years for them to have met off panel? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:39, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::Megatronus Prime is '''NOT''' the Liege Maximo. We know that for sure as they're named one after the other as seperate beings at one point. And we know for SURE that Megatronus is one of the 13. The info the book gives makes suuggestions that make it VERY, VERY likely he is the Fallen, they just don't say it out bluntly. So Megatronus should get a "confirmed" entry even if we're not going to make the (certainly intended) leep and connect the two. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:43, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::That's the thing with myths and legends, one being can become split into multiple characters or multiple characters get merged into one with retellings. Just because there are separate legends Megatronus and Liege Maximo doesn't mean that further developments won't reveal them to be the same being. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:49, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::That's irrelevant. Unless there's "anything" to suggest it at all in the Canon, it's just "making stuff up" and has no place on this wiki, which is what we're discussing. There's nothing in the book that in any way even hints of hinting that MP might be the LM, where there are lots of clearly very intentional details linking him to The Fallen.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:00, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Oh, I thought you were responding to TX55's clearly labeled "purely personal speculation". I had no intention of anything I said being put in the article. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:04, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

== Toy Section ==

Should it stay or go? If it stays do we list EVERY toy of EVERY one of the Original 13? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:10, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:I'm for just excising it entirely. It's not exactly a toy gimmick like other subgroups are, and anybody who's interested in the toys can just scoot over to the characters' pages. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:50, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::That's what I was thinking, I just wanted to bring it up before slashing it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

==Alpha Trion==
I'd also note that we need to add Alpha Trion to the confirmed members. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:24, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:Doesn't that mean that we need to combine all the [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]] articles? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:30, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::I don't know. It kind of makes my brain hurt. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:35, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::The thing about Alpha Trion is, he really is the same basic character in every universe. "Wise Ancient Autobot closely connected to Vector Sigma and/or records of Cybertronian history". Except for that one where he's a murdering looney. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:41, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::The murdering looney is just the inversion of his resurrecting Prime and Elita (and maybe Magnus). Healer and killer are moral opposites. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:47, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::If the Thirteen travel between the various universes, I ''suppose'' it's possible that the weight of knowing everything that was or will be, in ''each and every universe'' eventually pushes Trion over the edge.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:49, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Didn't somebody say that the universe they were in could affect a singularity? I just figured this was an example of that. AT in the negative polarity universe exhibits inverted morality. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:54, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::SG Alpha Trion was the same in the TransTech universe. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Yeah, he was batslag and scheming during his time in Axiom Nexus, just better at hiding it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::I'm sure there's enough wiffle-waffle in Forest Lee's bullshit-fu answer to the multiversal singularity question to cover it. Maybe this is just one iteration of Trion when he is a "quantum event", playing out the potential question of "What if dude was evil?" until it eventually collapses and reverts. Or something. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:58, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Actually, to throw another kink into things, Animated Alpha Trion is not a historian, has no connection to any Vector Sigma, and indeed Wyatt, at least, says Animated has no multiversal singularity anything in it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Authorial intent can be overruled by the iron fist of Hasbro. If Hasbro says Alpha Trion is always a historian with a connection to Vector Sigma who exists in all universes, then Wyatt be slagged, that's what he is. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|22:53, 27 June 2010}}
::::::Sorry, but for me authorial intent can only be overruled by later canon fiction in the exact same continuity, not by a completely different continuity written by someone with no connection to the other one. Especially since changing Alpha Trion's role or adding in Vector Sigma where it doesn't exist would be changing actual ''canon'' as well, not just authorial intent.
::::::(Plus, if Hasbro actually wanted to wield its iron fist, they would have enforced the singularities being written into Animated in the first place.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Thing is, Animated continuity by itself (completely ignoring the words of Wyatt and Isenberg) doesn't create any mutual exclusivities because it didn't take a side either way. Hasbro didn't put down it's iron fist because they didn't need to yet.[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 00:53, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Except that if Hasbro wanted the singularities in Animated, then Isenberg and Wyatt would not be saying those things at all to begin with, since they wouldn't be the case. (Or they'd at the very least be saying "We didn't want to, but Hasbro made us" or something.) Plus, the Allspark and no Vector Sigma contradict Primus and the VS Gestalt, at least.
::::::::(I've never ever understood why the wiki is 95% sticklers for canon, except for this one case, where suddenly fanwank speculation and authorial intent (from authors who aren't even involved with the continuities in question, to boot) suddenly reigns supreme, sometimes even over actual canon.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Seriously? You're saying that Hasbro's official call on the matter ''isn't'' canon? You're not making sense here. A3 being one of the 13 is not fanwank speculation, and it looks like to me you're misunderstanding the definition of authorial intent. Wyatt and Isenberg's opinion doesn't matter because it didn't make it into the actual fiction, and it wasn't going to, because it undermines the multiversal (with singularities) framework that Hasbro is finally getting to brass tacks on. And let's face it, backpedaling at the point they are at right now isn't a good idea by any stretch of the standard. Hasbro never commented on Wyatt/Isenberg's idea because it wasn't an issue yet, more of a "well, we'll let them think so for the time being, until the fiction actually gets to that point".[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 02:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Derrick Wyatt also said, on several occasions, that as far as he is concerned there are no Primus and Unicron in the Animated universe. And I'm afraid his opinion doesn't count there, since the multiversal god conceit predates his work and is much bigger than it. As I end up pointing out here semi-regularly, authors have gotten stuff wrong before and we just mark it down as a trivia note. --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.134.205|74.73.134.205]] 14:39, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::So, a tiny mention of an idea in a completely different and unrelated continuity that's already been explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities, somehow counts more than actual canon fiction AND the word from someone who directly worked on a continuity and knows for a fact what the writers actually intended for it. Especially seeing as how even Furman, who ''invented'' Primus and Unicron, was explicitly going to write them out of IDW as well.
::::::::::::...OK, man, if believing something that illogical makes you happy, more power to you, I guess. Me, I don't presume to think I know better than the creators themselves when it comes to what is and isn't in their work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Animated A3 behaves no differently from every other version we've ever seen. They're all eccentric but basically normal-seeming old dudes who have hints of great influence and age. Been that way ever since KtVS. ''Exodus'' comes out and says that this normal-seeming-eccentric-old-dude does indeed have great age and great influence. What is the difference now? They're just firmly putting boundaries on all the hints we've gotten for 25 years. From a story perspective there is nothing wrong with it at all; is the only problem really that the writer of this particular series said otherwise?
:::::::::::::Hasbro is the biggest of the creators, bigger than any individual writer, so if you're going to cite this or that intention / Word Of God, it's just going to be a self-defeating exercise. "A tiny mention" in any story at all is a heck of a lot more than we ever got of "no Unicron in Animated / IDW", since none of that was ever officially published at all. And what was "explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities"? The original 13 must, by definition, apply everywhere. The multiverse conceit has been solidly established since 2003 and all those stories were vetted by Hasbro; some were even written by Hasbro (as has been mentioned here already). Neither Wyatt nor Furman nor anybody else can "intend" their way out of it. Larry DiTillio "intended" for the Vok to have created sparks and for Transformers' after-death dimension to be the Vok's Nexus Zero. This, too, is now flatly impossible noncanon, as too many rigid rules explicitly contradicting it have been published for too many years. This is what happens when your franchise sets down explicit omnipresent rules for a multiversal origin: they are, by definition, bigger than everything else. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:45, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I've already covered this. What one continuity does has nothing to do with what any other continuity does. FunPub is its own continuity. Exodus is apparently the new WFC/Prime continuity. In no other case do we ever declare what happened in one continuity has overwritten another continuity's canon, or let one continuity's author's intent overwrite another continuity's author's intent, so I don't know why this is different. (And, FunPub is no more "Hasbro" writing fiction than IDW is Hasbro writing fiction, the movie team is Hasbro writing fiction, the cartoon teams are Hasbro writing fiction, etc. They're all contracted to write fiction on behalf of Hasbro.)
::::::::::::::Sinclair explicitly stated that the Movieverse is outside of the multiverse established in FunPub fiction. Hasbro's approved a lot more continuities contradicting the idea than they have ones that do. And we've never heard word from Hasbro yet on the matter, so there's no reason yet to discount the authorial intent of the actual creators because there's no official word or canon yet to contradict them.
::::::::::::::So, no, the whole multiversal singularity idea has not been "solidly established" at all. Exactly the contrary, in fact. Maybe at some point we'll actually get official confirmation from someone at Hasbro who works with more than one continuity, or some actual fiction that explicitly takes place in each continuity that writes the matter in, and then I'll say "OK" because then there'll be actual support for the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::FunPub stories written by Forest Lee are absolutely more "Hasbro writing the fiction" than IDW, the movies, or the cartoons. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:42, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Well, you know. Except for the whole fact that FunPub stories have been stated to not apply to every universe, and Forest Lee (AFAIK) has zero to do with writing the other continuities, and it's wiki policy to consider as everything equally canon.
::::::::::::::::Especially when we're talking stories that take place in a venue that hardly anybody reads vs. more mainstream venues. I fail to see how you can even think Lee's fiction is supposed to have these big, sweeping changes to the brand when only a tiny handful of people have even heard about/read it, and probably almost none of Hasbro's target demographic. How can something that barely anyone knows about be as important as you claim?
::::::::::::::::Maybe the current fiction ''will'' actually finally firmly establish the singularity as applying to every continuity in venues where everyone can actually see it. But until that time... I love FunPub's continuity, but the fact is that it's just one continuity out of many, and it's one almost nobody reads to boot. Treating it as more important than everything else just because the wiki's (understandably) biased towards it is ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Look, you can't say "Hasbro never said this", and then when shown they did, retort with a "well, then it doesn't matter." I have no idea what Pete Sinclair thinks he is saying, as it was pointed out to him in that same Allspark thread that the Movie storyline has a multiversal stream assignment, and he's all like "yeah, but it's not in the multiverse". Once again that is a case of individual authors not being able to "break" foundational facts that have a broader scope than their own stories--and they sure can't ''THINK'' their way into breaking them without ever even bothering to put it to pen and expect it to have any validity outside their own greymatter. Come on, if you're going to dismiss FP's story material because it's so obscure and little-known, that explicitly discredits all author intent ever, which is orders of magnitude more obscure and unknown and was never even official in the first place. A Hasbro comic book with any circulation sure outranks some guy's Twitter following. The very idea of "stating certain stories not to apply" is rampant author-intentism--in this case favoring the intent of Sinclair over Lee ''in the exact same continuity and medium''. I will never view it as a valid argument. You are right to point out that this wiki treats all publications as canon. Animated A3 not-being one of the 13 was never published and is not canon. Ditto for the oxymoronic notion that the movie universe--or ANY universe--would not be part of the multiverse. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:35, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::I can say that "Hasbro has never said this" because they haven't. Meanwhile, Sinclair, who's one of FunPub's '''managing editors''' (not "just" a writer) and thus knows what FunPub fiction does and doesn't cover and affect, has said something. Yes, I'm favoring Sinclair over Lee in the same medium, the same way that what Andy Schmidt or Tipton says goes over any individual IDW writer.
:::::::::::::::::::As for authorial intent, we add it on as Trivia notes whenever it doesn't contradict actual canon. The funny thing is, the idea of the Movies and Animated being in the multiverse is equally as much authorial intent. And since it's from an author who doesn't even write or have anything to do with the Movie or Animated fiction, that means it carries even less weight than the usual authorial intent. And seeing as how Movie fiction outright contradicted IN CANON the idea of the 13 being the same as every other universe...
:::::::::::::::::::As for anything in FunPub continuity meaning anything outside of FunPub continuity itself, see Jackpot's 100% correct note below which sums up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Nobody outside of the hardcore fans even knows about FunPub's continuity, let alone considers it anywhere near enough important to overwrite the main continuities, and that includes FunPub's own editor and the people writing the main continuities. It's only oxymoronic if you give the FunPub continuity an importance it never had in the first place, and if you don't realize that what was retconned once (if you accept the multiversal retcon) can very very easily be retconned again.
:::::::::::::::::::And there is no "Hasbro's comic books". There's IDW's comic books and FunPub's comic books. In fact, to be perfectly technical, FunPub explicitly '''does not''' have a comic book license from Hasbro! They're only allowed to produce a magazine and the BotCon convention comics. So really, claiming they're "Hasbro's comic books" is doubly wrong. IDW is--by '''license'''--Hasbro's comic book company, not FunPub. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::To be fair, I'd like to say something in defense of Thy's side of the debate: We're all trying to free our arguments from the taint of authorial intent, and I think that's part-and-parcel with a Platonic ideal of continuity that underlies our whole endeavor here. This is the notion that, stripped of all real-world references, there's a pure-fiction world where we can treat all of these stories as "real" events in a multiverse as internally consistent as actual reality. We all know this is an impossible vision, but it's there under the surface nonetheless (consider how our default writing style is to present the fiction as primary fact and relegate the real-world facts to "Trivia"). Hand-in-hand with that ideal is the discounting of any given story's real-world influence and fame. Ideally, we don't play favorites; in fact, elevating the obscure is a point of pride. And from this stripped-down, egalitarian view, what do we see? One universe is acknowledging the multiverse and making grand statements about it, while most of the rest stay basically agnostic. From an entirely in-fiction perspective, how do we deal with that, especially when those grand statements sometimes seem at odds with how other universes present themselves? Our current consensus (and I think Thy's answer, even if he hasn't approached it from exactly this direction) is to play along, to accept in-universe multiversal claims as-is, even if that means allowing other universes to get pushed around. I can understand this view; there's an appealing simplicity to it. But I'm more inclined towards Jeysie's view, which is that we should document the FunPub multiversal claims but not let them dictate our entire presentation. The result would be a little paradoxical on the surface, since the same article might have to talk about a character as both a singularity and as having multiple incarnations. But I think it can be done, and it's more true to our everything-is-canon maxim. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:21, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::Again, I think you summed up some of my own thoughts well. I'm not trying to ''discount'' the FunPub fiction; it's ''equally as'' valid a continuity as any other. I just disagree with us treating it as ''more'' canon than every other continuity, to the point where not only is FunPub fiction retconning canon in other continuities accepted, but we don't accept the notion of newer fiction in turn retconning the older FunPub fiction.
:::::::::::::::::::::Basically, there is a multiverse in FunPub's storylines, but there may or may not be a multiverse in any other storylines. So long as you accept the storylines as all being separate from a real-world perspective, this isn't really that hard to wrap one's mind around. What the writer for one universe chooses to include in their work has no bearing on what the writer for a separate universe chooses to include in ''their'' work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:50, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::Pretty much. I developed my own view of continuity in the old days of ATT, when Raksha and Skyflight were doing their level best to drive wedges between G1 and the hated BW. I think it was in the "Star Drive"/"Nemesis" debate that it occurred to me that the best way to look at continuity between series is as moving ever forward, never backward. From the perspective of the G1 'toon, the Decepticon ship actually has no name, though "Star Drive" is a valid possibility. And now that that series is over, nothing can ever settle the question; the absence of evidence is in fact its canon. Of course, the BW 'toon adapted bits of the G1 'toon into its own backstory and gave the 'Con ship a name, which is perfectly canon for that enlarged perspective. Likewise, BW established a kind of afterlife called "the other side of the Matrix", and then BM clarified it as the "Allspark" with its own properties. From the perspective of BW, the Allspark isn't actually canon, but from the perspective of BM-plus-BW-as-its-backstory, it is. And so on. When we get to FunPub, we find a continuity that actually incorporates ''every other continuity'' into its cosmology and makes declarations about them. Which is all fine and good, and those declarations are canon from the FunPub-plus-everything-else perspective... but look at any of those everything-elses from their own perspectives, and the retcons are no longer canon.
::::::::::::::::::::::I've seen that view expressed in debates here before, but seldom. I think there's a philosophical divide among editors here, and the current dominant side believes that the perspective of the Wiki should be from the top of the retcon chain, which determines our presentation of everything else. I take a more bottom-up approach; in fact, the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]] article is an excellent demonstration of how I prefer things. I'd much rather see how an idea has evolved from series to series than see everything made to conform to the latest evolution.
::::::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 14:28, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::::What about the "Star Drive"? Was that a name pulled from the dialog? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, in "[[Microbots]]", when Scavenger is scanning the ground for traces of the ship, he says something about locating the "star drive." In all likelihood this meant the ship's engine, but one day the late ATT gadfly Skyflight announced that he had decided it was the true name of the ship, contrary to BW's claims. The usual chaos ensued. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:12, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, I think my approach can be classified as the "bottom-up" approach as well. I prefer to just state canon as much as-is as possible (with the occasional authorial note where it clarifies canon without contradicting it), and let the reader make up their mind for themselves how to fit it all together. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Where/when have the FP stories been stated to not apply to every universe? Just out of curiosity. I hadn't heard this before.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:51, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Sinclair mentioned on the Allspark that [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=64273&view=findpost&p=1388259 "Movie continuity is outside the multiverse."]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:58, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::That's.... very interesting to know. I think it's a perfect illustration of Jeysie's point, too: While Forest Lee may be the closest thing we have to the Mouth of Sauron, in every practical way his voice has been a squeak. He's no George Lucas, and if his multiversal-singularity foundation has really been so solidly established since 2003, then why didn't Orci and Kurtzman conform to it? Why did Pete have to hand-wave their work away? Because until possibly - ''possibly'' - now, the people who actually MATTER at Hasbro haven't given two shits about this level of continuity. And pretending like we can apply a Lucas-level primacy to the FunPub work has been and probably always will be an endless source of headaches, since other creators will keep blithely making square pegs that we bend ourselves over backwards trying to fit into Forest's round hole. (Uh.... that wasn't supposed to sound so filthy.) (Okay, it wasn't at first, but then I admit I kind of ran with it.)
:::::::::::::::::::Anyway, as to the matter at hand, I'm in favor of patience. Also of doing our damnedest to separate what's actually in the fiction from what's been said elsewhere. As others have mentioned, it's possible that the Exodus 13 aren't actually singularities, or maybe more than one being in the multiverse happens to be named "Alpha Trion"... Let's wait and see how the WFC/Exodus/Prime universe unfolds.
:::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:50, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Thank you... that more or less sums up how I feel in a nutshell, better than I have so far. I mean, I hate sounding like I'm running down FunPub or Lee because I like their stuff, but... up until now I just don't see it as being the driving force some folks seem to wish it is, when you actually look outside the circle of us hardcore fans. We keep giving Lee and FunPub an importance that, when it comes to how things have actually worked in a practical sense, they just do not have.
::::::::::::::::::::So, I'd rather wait to see which way Hasbro is gonna bounce... whether it's retconning the retcon and letting the continuities (seemingly) continue to do what they will or won't regards the matter, or changing to making a firm and noticeable statement in favor of the matter outside of a single obscure continuity. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::I consider actual fiction canon, then authorial intent from the people who actually wrote the fiction for things that don't contradict canon. And the fact that Trion is not a historian and there's no Vector Sigma IS canon for Animated. Like I said, if Hasbro actually cared about the matter they could very very easily have made Isenberg write something in somewhere and removed all doubt, or told the creators to stop making untrue statements.
::::::::::Plus, it's not the existence of the 13 that's the problem, it's the idea of the singularity nonsense that's the problem. So far Hasbro's ''never'' said a single thing about that. All the info has been about ''the 13'' and has been related to TF: Prime; I haven't heard anything about singularities, unless there's BotCon news that wasn't reported.
::::::::::(And "official call" makes no sense. If anything, the opposite: all we've gotten is from FunPub fiction/writers, and FunPub's editor flatly said that the Movieverse, at least, is separate from FunPub's take. Meanwhile, IDW, the Movies, and Animated all have canon and statements flatly going against the singularity, and Hasbro's current statements have been about TF: Prime, not TF as a whole. So I don't get why people claim Hasbro's pushing the singularity when I've never seen a statement from them about it and they keep approving fiction that contradicts it.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:36, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Here's the problem. Hasbro HAS said officially that all the 13 are Multiversal Singularities. And they HAVE said A3 is a 13er. That's canon. That's what the wiki needs to go by. Nothing personal, but it doesn't matter what you personnally think about Authoral Intent. How like canon you make it in your own mind/fanon. That is NOT canon. It can be interesting. It can be worth mentioning on the wiki. But it is NOT CANON until it appears officially approved by Hasbro somwhere. So going by what's official the pages really need to be merged. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 06:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::No, they have not said that. The only thing I've ever seen about multiversal singularities has, like I said, come from FunPub writers and fiction. And, like I said, it's been stated directly by FunPub that at least one continuity is separate from what FunPub does. Like I also said, everything Hasbro has said about the Thirteen has only mentioned a single continuity: Exodus/TF: Prime; they haven't said the Thirteen are singularities. And, like I also also said, it's not just authorial intent but actual canon in the fiction that has contradicted the singularity idea. Fiction that was approved by Hasbro, I might add.
:::::::::::::It's you folks claiming that Hasbro is supposedly pushing the singularity that are ignoring canon and what Hasbro actually has and hasn't said. Not only that, but you are actually also going by authorial intent. In fact, you're being worse about it than I am, since you're going by authorial intent of people who have nothing to do with writing the continuities in question!
:::::::::::::So, to the contrary, going by what's official there's no reason to merge at all. Trion is a Thirteener in some continuities, yes, but that's it.
::::::::::::: When Hasbro actually comes out and says that the Thirteen are singularities and we see some actual mainstream fiction saying so--and Hasbro made the effort to explain that Zeta Prime was "Sentinel Zeta Prime", so we ''know'' they'll speak up when they actually do have problems--then I'll concede the point. Until then, all canon, official evidence, and authorial intent from the actual continuity writers, that I've seen is to the contrary, which is why the wiki's stance bugs me so much. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 09:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Jeysie, you do realize that when we're saying "Hasbro", we're basically saying "Forest Lee", right? The guy who wrote both the FunPub coimcs and bios dealing with the singularity thing, and is also Hasbro's bio-writer. And who answered the Q&A question about singularities. Lee saying it is "Hasbro" saying it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:59, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::And again, FunPub's come out as saying their fiction doesn't apply to at least one universe. And 99.9% of the time we don't let toy bios override the actual fiction, so I'm not sure why this case is different.
:::::::::::::::To me "Hasbro saying it" equals someone like Archer, who deals with more than just a single company's continuity or toy blurbs that often don't match up with actual fiction anyway. The whole Sentinel/Zeta Prime thing, for instance, was (AFAIK, correct me if wrong) commented on by an overseeing Hasbro person, rather than by a writer who writes for a continuity entirely separate from WFC's. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Did Hasbro know that that was the author's intent? If they never specifically mentioned those ideas, Hasbro would not have known "to put their foot down". I don't know one way or the other, but that is an unspoken assumption in your argument that needs to be examined. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:07, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I find it hard to believe that they had no clue what someone like Isenberg was planning on doing with the fiction. Especially when they've been shown to be perfectly picky about any number of minor details in the fiction, so why would they fail to worry about major ones? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Contrary to what you think, Vector Sigma DOES exist in Animated continuity (even according to Wyatt!). Read A3's Animated page. It's there. If you're going to argue a point, at least research it first. - [[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 10:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Again, like I said, it's not the Thirteen specifically that's the problem, it's the singularity that's the problem. There's no issue with the Thirteen existing in a continuity (any more than any other character the writers want to have existing in a continuity), it's the idea that they're some singularity that has to exist always in the same way that's the sticking point.
:::::::::Vector Sigma can exist in Animated all he wants; that doesn't prove anything except that he exists and can travel between dimensions (which is true of plenty of characters who aren't Thirteen members or singularities, so that doesn't say much on its own). And heck, Animated Alpha Trion may even be part of the Animated Thirteen for all we know--he's just not a singularity as far as Animated is concerned. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:43, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::This is probably the one thing that confuses me about the Thirteen; are they singularities in the sense that Unicron is (there's only one, and they can travel between dimensions at will), or like how Primus is (there's only one, and they exist simultaneously at all times in every universe)? That writeup that Forest did is so quantumy that I can read it either way.

:::::::: IIRC, "A3 is one of the Thirteen" is originally a speculation (or, at least, not official) until the publication of ''Exodus''. Also, I think I agree with Jeysie's argument/point. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:48, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

Considering Lee wrote Reunification, as well as the bio for Nexus Prime and the tidbits about Alpha Trion helping split up Prima's sword? Yeah, I'd wager Lee has an explanation for this waiting in the wings. I can't imagine he wasn't already planning for this at that time.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:03, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:Yeah, absolutely. There is very obviously something ''big'' planned for the Thirteen, and has been for some time, but they're either taking their time very deliberately and building slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly, or they can't quite find the right venue for the story. I can't think of a ''worse'' way to do it than through IDW, so I was quite glad when I heard that idea had been scrapped after it became "more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing", but it seems like something that needs more exposure than just a fanclub comic, so... I'm talking like I'm on a message board, so I'll stop. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:09, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Considering this from a wiki standpoint, I'll just say that this takes us into ''tremendously'' fertile territory for bi-monthly Q&A submissions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:11, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::I guess the problem with merging is that we first have to find out if there one, even is an explanation, and two, what said explanation is. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Unless Alpha Trion is just like Vector Prime in some way, or an explanation like the ''ROTF'' Fallen, but I'll hate it if that becomes true. What I worry is that if we ask in Q&A, will they made a explanation in rush? Or should we find a way to ask the writer(s?) of ''Exodus''? --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:57, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::I see it the other way, merge the articles with a note that the explanation is unclear and fill in the explanation later. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 22:55, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::What Hasbro says, goes. Whatever anyone else says is a trivia note at best if it conflicts with Hasbro. I say we merge, since that's the official word, with a note explaining that the merger has a few weird issues and we don't have an official explanation yet.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:15, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::: My thing is, until we have some clear idea how it all fits together structure-wise, trying to merge everything is going to be one very long pile-on mess. Especially when we try to write up how to reconcile SG and Animated Alpha Trions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::: I vote for note vote until we get a clear explanation. However, if possible, I do consider using subpages if confirmed because there are a big divergence between all Alpha Trion. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 23:22, 27 June 2010 (EDT)



::::::::Tx? What does that mean? Anyway, I don't really see the issue. They get a write-up on what they did in each continuity under the correct header in "Fiction" and the section starts with a continuity note that says "This doesn't seem to fit with the nature of the character as dictated by Hasbro, but who knows the conflict may be explained away in the future." Boom. Where's the "complications"? Kinda how the Sunbow Toon is handled in the Unicron and Primus articles.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:26, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::: (COming in kinda late but...) I also vote on just waiting this out for a bit... It's not even that big of a deal if you ask me. Any author could just come along and make up an easy explanation to solve this problem. Even I can do it, watch: "Eons ago, A3 split himself from a singularity into a multitude of individuals to better understand non-singularity beings blah blah blah blah..." When you read mystery fiction, do you just flip out when something doesn't add up and confuses you? No, you keep on reading, and odds are by the end of the story, something comes up and makes you say "oh! It all makes sense now!" --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yeah. Considering we're usually patient, I don't see a problem with just waiting until we get a clear idea of things. We can always just stick a message box at the top saying that we think they all need a merge, but we're waiting on the matter.
::::::::::(Heck, for all we know, it'll end up being canon that, like you say, he's actually a ''split'' singularity that's deliberately many separate individuals who are all part of the same, uh, personality gestalt. In which case merging might not make sense after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:14, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::If we stick a very clear, unambiguous message that these should probably be merged at the top of the pages I would have no problem with waiting a reasonable time period before merging. It should not be hidden down at the bottom in the notes though, we need to be out in the open with this. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:21, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

So, what to do with [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? I suggest phrasing it like this: "'''Alpha Trion''' is one of the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]] and the Archivist who bears the [[Quill]] that writes the [[Covenant of Primus]]. He might be the same Alpha Trion as [[Alpha Trion (G1)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (RID)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|him]] and [[Alpha Trion (ROTF)|him]], though probably not [[Alpha Trion (SG)|him]]." [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:56, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Something like that. The idea in the note on the AT disambig. page was to use the Prime page for all the info on AT that we know is about the 13er Singularity, with obvious links to the others and info about the retcon. I just wanted to make sure folks were cool with the notes on the Disambig. page and the G1 Trion page before expanding the idea. As it's been a few days now with no one objecting I think the idea should be completed as at least a temporary solution, pending future info from Hasbro. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:02, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

==Another perspective on Multiuniversal Singularities==
Is it absolutely, 100% set in stone that every version of a character who's referenced as a Multiversal Singularity is definitely the same guy? How about Megatronus? Megatron used to go by that name. If we REALLY follow the idea that every character sharing a name with a Multiuniversal Singularity is the same guy, then every Megatron is also the Fallen. Assuming no one hear actually takes that position, then we have precedent where there are two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not. Once we have one example, it logically follows that there might be more.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:This makes perfect sense to me. Then again, pretty much every explanation people have come up with for, say, A3's status as an MS has made perfect sense to me, so..... --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:22, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::That actually is something that I've also considered. It ''would'' be a rather tidy "have your cake and eat it too" kind of explanation that undoes some of the thorniness of the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:29, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::It makes sense to me, too. I really like "two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not." --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:25, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::It sounds good to me. It wouldn't be the first time 2 characters with the same name existed in the same universe at once. Look at [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]. Hell, you could even argue that the non-MS character was (in-universe) named in honor of the MS. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:42, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Or, in SG Alpha Trion's case, he went crazy and started to believe that he's the MS A3. There's just so many issues that we can explain away with this. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:45, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

== The 13 as singularities concept obsolete? ==

My opinion is that, in all likelihood, the wiki is slavishly adhering to a concept (the 13 are mutiversal singularities) that isn't really going anywhere. As far as I know, it hasn't been followed up on since a [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70811&st=120&p=1585399&#entry1585399 fan-club story from around 2005] (the wiki still needs a specific citation). Yes, there was a Q&A answer, but that isn't exactly fiction. Dare I say that it is closer to [[authorial intent]] mixed with a little bit of humoring detail-obsessive fans? We are apparently in the near future getting treated to the definitive story of the original 13. I see no hints that they are going to be anything other than simply residents of the "Prime"-verse. If the 13 aren't singularities in "Prime", then I think the wiki should probably consider the concept obsolete and save a lot of headaches. If they are singularities in "Prime", I will eat my hat. This is just my 2¢. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:34, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:There might be something to this. I definitely think taking a 'wait-and-see' approach to Prime and the 13 is a good idea.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Maybe it's just taken them a while to figure out how to put things together. They have been rather busy with a multimillion dollar, multipart movie series. To me Prime seems like it is going to integrate and synthesize a lot of things and inform not just where the stories go from here, but also how the previous stories are understood. We need to exercise a little patience and see what Hasbro does next. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:40, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::We shall see, Galvatron, we shall see.....[/zarakquote]
:::Also, you're on. If the 13 are singularities in "Prime", I expect to see pics of you eating your hat. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It's certainly possible Hasbro will let the concept go at some point. But they have not yet. IF they do, then we change things, but until then we wait and go with the last official word on the subject: The 13 are singularities. Since Hasbro apparently has big plans for them soon we have a good chance to see one way or the other soon. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:25, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I seriously doubt that Prime will have anything to say about the 13 being singularities, one way or the other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:23, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::From what Hasbro's said it sounds like they plan to express the 13 backstory on a number of fronts, not just the Prime toon. I think there's a decent chance it'll be adressed at some point. Not definate, but certainly a posibillity. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 16:00, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Given the amount of product-moving time required, I doubt Hasbro would see any benefit to talking about not just one backstory but ''infinite'' backstories, dragging in dimensions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story itself just to show some characters vaulting back and forth between them. The very concept of multiversal-singularitism is of interest to only a handful and, almost inherently, does not "work" within one discrete storyline. They very well may leave the whole matter undiscussed and, for all intents and purposes, abandoned. But time will tell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

==Alien Traveler's version==
I'm sorry, but your version made up wayyyyy too much stuff. For example:
:As Unicron learned how to change his planetary form, Primus created the 13 in imitation of him. The 13 reproduced by budding, but the process had dark byproducts, so Prima was given the Matrix to perpetuate their race instead.
This was under the MARVEL COMICS CONTINUITY section! There was no 13 in the Marvel Comics continuity! They hadn't been created yet! This is absolutely not what we should be doing. We do not make up canon to make our pages read cohesively. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
:And aside from that? Anyway, let's continue that discussion on [[User talk:Alientraveller/The Primes]]. You must admit my version is far more in-depth. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:12, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
::Well no one put any input, but I hope my changes are now are more to your liking and rather than reverting a lot of work you could improve upon it instead, the article now longer seems like a stub with an elaborate intro and lots of notes. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 07:18, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::But you're not really chronicling the thirteen as a group in fiction. You're just going in-depth in what the individual members did. How is the Nexus Prime stuff relevant? Are you also going to note everything Vector Prime and Alpha Trion did? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:20, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
::::I did actually! The I looked and realized Trion and Vector and Nexus's individual exploits are better covered in this own article as it was becoming a bit of a Frankenstein, and that it should only cover instances of the Thirteen interacting. Which is why Fun Pub.'s section is fairly big, considering it does feature Vector, Alpha (and possible doppleganger) and the five components of Nexus.
::::Maybe we could hide the second two paragraphs about Fun Publications and unhide them if we get a Q&A answer regarding evil Trion. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 08:32, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::I appreciate your compromise approach, though I still think the current draft is heavily dependent on the "multiversal singularity" policy still being in effect, something that hasn't been touched on for these characters since like 1 page in 2005. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:34, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

== Solus Prime ==

I'm assuming we're going to wait for [[Transformers: Exiles|Exiles]] to be released before potentially adding him(/her?) to this list? --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 03:49, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
: Probably for the best. There really isn't anything to say till then. Wish it were closer than Sept.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:02, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

== misspelling ==

Could someone change "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to relenquish the Matrix." to "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to '''relinquish''' the Matrix."? The page is locked. --[[Special:Contributions/81.164.215.61|81.164.215.61]] 12:56, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

== Nexus ==

Except for Nexus, each of the bullets at the top describes what kind of person the Transformer was. Nexus's line, however, just focuses on what he physically was, a combiner. Exiles describes him as a cunning magician, so can someone with write access add that in?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 14:05, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Thanks, Zack.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 15:15, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Move? ==

Seems to me that this should be moved to "Thirteen", since that's the consistently-used proper name of the group. Or the most common "Thirteen (blank)" used in fiction. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:01, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Beast Mode Prime ==

[[Image:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]

Is the Prime on the upper right corner (the one to the left of the energy sphere/Vector Prime) the Beast Prime? Judging by the fact that he looks distinctly centaur-like... [[User:Tom Servo the Great|Tom Servo the Great]] 18:22, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
: We don't know. Was hoping someone would interrogate Hasbro/Prime crew at NYCC. No luck. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 18:50, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
:::It's not confirmed, but I think it's evident like Solus Prime. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:54, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
::::I disagree. It definately could be him. And may be him. But there's at least one huge monstrous member in the charging to battle pic that it could also be. We need to stay away from guesses as much as possible. As we always say, we don't need to have info "first". There is no race, and accuracy is more important. So until confirmed there's no reason for us to guess. Even if it's a reasonable guess.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 19:28, 20 October 2011 (EDT)

I don't think the energy sphere guy is Beast Prime, seeing as Minicon Prime is supposed to be the smallest, which the energy sphere guy seems to be. speaking of which, unless 'Prime' is not in his name, he may not even be a Mini-con in the movieverse, unless he got a lot larger. in the ROTF appearances of the 7 Primes, they're all seemingly larger than Megatron. [[User:CrowBuster|CrowBuster]] 17:21, 11 January 2012 (EST)[[User: CrowBuster|CrowBuster]]

== Alpha Trion ==
Since you've decided to keep all Alpha Trion's article's seperate, and just note that [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]] is a multiuniversal singualarity and the others disputed, does this mean that future incarnations of Alpha Trion will have their own article, or be included on [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? Just wondering.[[Special:Contributions/71.162.97.20|71.162.97.20]] 12:08, 11 November 2011 (EST)
: We'll address that when it happens, according to the circumstances. Impossible to say until then. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:42, 11 November 2011 (EST)

== Current placement of "Conceptual History" as of December 2nd, 2011 ==

I am personally not a fan of its placement in the page (or perhaps it's the title), I feel that goes more along the line of "trivia" which would typically reside at the bottom of the page with "Notes". I strongly feel that we should keep the structure of: "Members", then "Fiction", then either "Conceptual History" (CH), or mix the CH with "Notes". --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 06:38, 2 December 2011 (EST)
:I wrote the CH section at Interrobang's suggestion to specifically move it ''out'' of the bullet-pointed notes into full prose to give room for a proper charting of the ideas concept. Placement, you can argue, sure, but I just like having conceptual history sections up top as with [[Matrix of Leadership|the Matrix]], or [[Energon]], or the [[AllSpark]], as they are key to understanding the precise chronological unfolding of a lot of the information that then follows them on the page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:58, 2 December 2011 (EST)
::I prefer it at the top, as the Thirteen, like Unicron, energon, the Matrix, etc., are not a consistently portrayed concept. Better to elaborate on that fact to start with instead of having poorly-connected fiction sections and then an explanation why. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:06, 2 December 2011 (EST)

===The Aligned Thirteen===
I have serious philosophical problems with continuing to add Alignedverse stuff here when we were essentially told that "what was true in previous universes isn't necessarily true" there. The present incarnation of the Thirteen is clearly intended to be a "perfect" ground-up version of the story that doesn't have to be jury-rigged from previous events. More crucially, there are obvious contradictions with existing entities, particularly Alpha Trion - the top of this ''very talk page'' emphasizes that there can be no "SG" version of the old Thirteen, because they are multiversal singularities, and yet we have an indisputably SG Alpha Trion in the old multiverse. Conclusion: Alpha Trion was not a member of the Thirteen in the old multiverse. Hand-waving the ridiculous chronology of the multiversal entities from the old multiverse can account for the difference in Nexus Prime's history, the same way we can assume the Fallen betrays Primus over and over and over again in every new reality, but it shouldn't need to. 
I know we greatly value our old multiversal entities on this wiki, and for the most part so do I - but the Alignedverse should have been drawn out as separate with regards to the Thirteen as well as, probably, Unicron as soon as we learned what a fundamental character Alpha Trion (not A3) was to the new reality. It's a big contentious undertaking and so I've kind of avoided starting the fight, but it needs to be said, and so I've said it. -[[User:LV|LV]] 14:34, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:I vote for splitting into Thirteen (multiverse) and Thirteen (Aligned), or whatever the title would be. Along with Vector Prime, Liege Maximo, Prima, etc. being split up as well. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:06, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:Not that I carry a lot of juice around here, but I'd VERY much oppose splitting the articles. To my reading of Hasbro's explicit and cryptic statements since the whole multiversal singularities concept got rolling, especially as regards the 13, "Aligned" ESPECIALLY as regards the 13, represents Hasbro's official reveal of all the "we'll reveal it all later" stuff they've been saying for years.

:I'd even go one further, and suggest that, especially considering the HOF bios, some of the stuff from TF Legends, etc., I think Aligned (from Hasbro's non-wiki-friendly perspective) PROBABLY represents an official "upgrade" of EVERY major TF character to "multiversal singuilarity" status. I take Hasbro's statements RE: Aligned not as "This is a new clean copy of the TF Universe from the ground up" but rather as "Aligned represents THE clean copy of the TF Universe, of which all previous iterations were garbled and muddy photocopies"

:Which is not to say I'm suggesting that we start trerating all characters as singularities, quite the contrary. I believe Hasbro has rolled us back to their late 90's vision of "Transformers as Mythology" wherein there is "one ultimate truth" (probably unrevealed), which is represented by an infinite number versions all of which are allowed to count so long as they pass Archer's famous "squint test."

:SOOOO, if I were king of the wiki, this is what I'd do: Mentally note that Hasbro intends Aligned to be (for all intents and purposes) "Ultimate Truth." We promptly and effectively ignore that as "Authorial Intent" and document Aligned like any other continuity. MEANWHILE, any characters/concepts/etc. that Aligned paints a clear portrait of which have a meaningful (but poorly defined) analog in previous continuities, we retcon the squint-test in a general way to those previously poorly defined guys. Conviniently, and I'd wager by design more or less, 99% of what we have so far that qualifies as a "Well definined in Aligned, but present and murky/mysterious in prior continuities" are ALSO entities previously identified as singularities or their kin.

:Therefore where continuity specifics don't contradict (which we just document and ignore under the current system anyay), we assume that whatever is presented as true in Aligned for "singularities" holds true for them in non-Aligned universes. Eg. Minimus Prime is one of the 13 in G1 (though never explicitly named), and we can deduce he's probably (through whatever mysterious means) the creator of the G1 Microns (Micromaster/Micron = synonym in G1, Minicon/Micron = synonym in UT...but if that's a leap of logic too far by our standards, I get it). Since he's never mentioned by name in any G1 material, we can assume it's true, since we know he's a singularity-type-dude and that Hasbro means for the Aligned 13 to be the real-deal honest-to-betsy versions.

:Even if "multiversal singularity" as originally and explictly defined has become spread a bit thin, I think it's fair to say that the concept is still VERY useful as a functional category (for taxonomy, not neccessarily as a wiki-category), and the core concept very much works.

:By contrast SPLITTING 13 (Aligned) and 13 (EVERYTHING ELSE) does nothing other than return everybody who's not Fallen/Nexus/A3/Veccy to "name and details unknown" status outside of Aligned. Which is less than constructive.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

::Your entire premise seems constructed on the idea that Hasbro intends for Aligned to retroactively apply to all previous continuities; there is nothing to lead us to believe that. The fact that the Thirteen never got any meaningful use before the old multiverse was dumped and replaced by Aligned doesn't mean we should falsely equate the two Thirteens when a) they conflict even in the tiny amount we know about the multiversal Thirteen and b) we have been explicitly told that things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:02, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:::To back up Graham, Hasbro were very much explicitly against making Aligned part of the prior Multiverse. The Club wasn't allowed to roll it into the whole Axiom Nexus thing, and yes, the concept of the Thirteen in Aligned, and other universal hypermatters, were declared separate and distinct from their prior Multiverse's concepts. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:15, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Y'all are both missing my entire point (kind of making it FOR me in fact), but I was being long winded so, I'll try to be more brief here. As you say Hasbro has very explicitly said that "things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now." You all seem to be reading that as "Pre-Aligned and Aligned don't mix." I'm reading that as "All previous continuity was lies and falsehoods, that jazz never happened, Aligned is what's REAL." That's a thorny situation, but I'd bet my left knee that to the degree that Uncle PotatoHead cares about "canon" in general, THAT's what they mean. My understanding of how the wiki deals with all manner of retconning is that when a retcon doesn't explicitly screw up known-facts we acknowledge it, and when it DOES screw things up we either ignore or note it.

::::Sooooo....Pre-Aligned: Multiversal Singularities, notably the 13, were a thing, and that concept helped grease the wheels of Pre-Aligned fiction. OFICIALLY (by my interpretation), Hasbro says that with the start of Aligned all prior fiction is null-and-void, exisiting perhaps as a "squint test passing" version of something that might or might-not have happened. Since we have no intention of re-writing everything Pre-Aligned to say "This is crap and lies written by morons who didn't know the truth, please see 'Aligned Fiction' for real stuff", we find ourself in this position: Pre-Aligned Canon works the way we were told it worked when it still "counted." Aligned Canon (SUPPOSEDLY) represents the way things (ALL things before current, and in perpetuity) REALLY works. Pre-Aligned, The 13 are Multiversal Singularities (MVSs), but their roster and 90% of their details are unknown. In Aligned, which is The-One-And-True-Canon (supposedly) the 13 are now documented in some degree of completeness, but they aren't MVSs...because there IS NO MULTIVERSE, that was crap and lies. So when we document a part of TF canon that is officially "crap and lies" (everything pre-Aligned), we can either choose to assume that the 13 are either the same dudes as the One-True-Canon 13 (which demonstrably they are in all cases where we have comparable data points....excepting Logos), OR we can thick-headedly decide that because a "crap and lies" concept like MVS-hood is an important enough concept that the Aligned-13 MUST be different dudes because they exist in a world (One-True-Canon) where MVSing is logically impossible. I see no reason to assume that the Pre-Aligned 13 are not retroactively-intended to be the same guys as The Aligned-13. Since, from Hasbro's perspective, there is only one set of 13, period. It's the same sort of situation that Uhaul-Robot and his other cartoon flashback-buddies names and titles of glory.

::::TLDR Version: 13 (MVSs) exisit in a "truth" where MVSs are the default truth. 13 (Aligned)exist in a "truth" where they don't need to be MVSs, but Hasbro says that these are *THE REAL*("truer truth") 13. Therefore 13 (MVSs) because they are, by the LOGIC OF THEIR SHEER CONCEPT, the one-and-only 13 must, unless explicitly contradicted (which with the exception of Logos Prime, they don't, and since the fiction is over, they won't) equal 13 (Aligned) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

:Though, just to play Devil's Advocate, I suppose one could argue that Logos Prime represents at least one (micro, perhaps) continuity wherein at least one of the Aligned 13 =/= the 13 everywhere else. Which we could either decide means that the logic I laid out above is broken, or else that we can document variances as variances (up to and including member roster), while still assuming the rest holds true, functionally at least. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:35, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Something just grates on me that we're about to get the most complete notion of the Thirteen we've ''ever'' had, but because of Hasbro being continually indecisive and ultimately pulling the hamfisted assertion of "different multiverses" we can't really complete this article. It bugs me. I know it's ''technically'' correct, but I hate the feel of it. For the longest time we were on this crazy scavenger hunt for lore on the Thirteen and now we have to say they weren't ''the same'' Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:37, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:I definitely don't disagree that it's maddening. We were "supposed" to learn all about them in that IDW series mentioned-then-abandoned, which one has to think was one of the most influential things through absence to be, insofar of its inability to have any effect on the Aligned Thirteen or the current IDW backstory. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::It's grating, because it's crazy. Think about it this way, we're taling about the TF GODS here. Whether you're talking the Millenialist Mono-Deity, or ancient Pagan pantheons, whenever you get to "god level" in story telling you end up with a million versions of the same "god" told a million different ways. This is the nature of a living evolving storytelling culture, it's one of things I most love about Transformers, it's a modern mythic system in fast-forward speed evolution. There are like 15 different versions of Aphrodite/Venus, for instance, in many cases basic facts vary from version to version (place and method of origin, etc.), but no one disputes that they're all the same goddess. Even though you'll see some reference materials seperate out Venus and Aphrodite to keep their Roman and Greek histories etc. straight, there's ALWAYS an explicit reference that the two have over the centuries become conflated and interchangeable, and any shorter reference will treat them under a single entry. Because we have NEXT TO NOTHING on 13 (Multiverse) and will soon have nearly EVERYTHING on 13 (Aligned) it's stupid to split them. Are we going to make a Unicron (Multiverse) and Unicron (Aligned) and a Primus (Multiverse) and Primus (Aligned) split as well? If we split the 13, we gotta split the daddies as well. There's either a conceptual/logical bridge between the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" or there isn't. We can't have it both ways.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:29, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:I'm putting my reply down here, because the nesting thing going on above is a mess. In reply to Destronger: The quote specifically says "what '''''was true'''''" in the non-Aligned settings, so I don't see how you can interpret that as "we are saying the non-Aligned settings are mistellings of Aligned. Furthermore...non-Aligned fiction is ''still being produced by Hasbro'', which puts the lie to the idea that Hasbro is doing some kind of George Lucas "now we have the resources to tell the story we always meant to" thing.
:The facts are:
#In order to keep everything canon in past settings, Hasbro had to sest up a huge multiverse system with the Thirteen as multiversal singularities.
#When asked if Aligned was part of that system, Hasbro pretty clearly communicated that no, Aligned within its internal canon is not part of the multiversal system (even if the setup of the multiversal system would seem to internally demand that it is!). As far as I know, the Aligned stuff hasn't even got a multiversal stream name, so there's no reason to think they are meant to mesh in any way.
:Basically, Hasbro is trying to treat them as separately as they would treat Animated and My Little Pony, so we should as well. Not to mention the contradictions that pop up with stuff like the "Seven Primes", "Logos Prime", etc.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:11, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities. But I'll set all that aside and again ask the question that captures my point even more simply: Do we split Unicron and Primus into (Aligned)/(Multiversal) entries? How about the planets like Cybertron, Junk, Velocitron? Do we split those? The 13 fall into the same bucket as all those examples, big-picture macro-concepts that stay "true and consistant enough" regardless of continuity, while also having little enough to be said about them specifically, that they all get to live at a single entry. If we NEED to be pedantic about it and have a split-fiction section Where we say Multiverse: The 13 are Singularities and exisit in multiverses simultaneously Aligned: They do stuff explicitly in the novels and we see them in a flash-back, then FINE, that's cool. But they SO don't need to be split as a category. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 16:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::The sheer volume of noise you're putting out here is discouraging to conversation, but here are a handful of points: Yes, Unicron should probably have his own Aligned page. No, we don't need to split planets, because we never have. The Thirteen are characters and characters get different pages for different continuities. For the purposes of this split, "Aligned" and "Everything else" are two different continuities. What you seem to regard as a convincing argument to keep them merged works only if everyone already agrees that Hasbro meant something only you think they meant. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:54, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I also support splitting Unicron into an Aligned entry, but Primus...would be dang tiny. Just, like, DANG.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 18:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I apologize if you find my involvement to be more "noise" than "signal", I'll bow to group consensus whatever direction it swings in. Splitting Unicron is my personal litmus test for splitting the 13, I personally think doing so is daft and removing clarity rather than adding to information when a simple split-fiction section would do, but as the group wills. I'll go back to quietly fixing grammar and adding pictures of obscure goodies.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 19:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::It's not the signal-to-noise ratio, it's just the masses and masses of text. Even if it's all made of valid talking points, it's hard to deal with in this kind of medium. If you were offended, I apologize. I wasn't trying to be hostile. I have no idea how separating Unicron's actions in a cartoon unrelated to all other fiction "removes clarity", though - but to be frank, Unicron concerns me a lot less than the Thirteen. Unicron is, in both pre- and Aligned incarnations, an evil god dude. The Thirteen don't even seem to be composed of the same individuals - even Nexus Prime is made up of different guys. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:33, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::Weird side thought on Nexus Prime: What if he is the sort of inverse of the Movie Constructicons/Devastator? Instead of being many individuals who can merge into different versions of Devastator, he is one guy who can split into several individuals in multiple ways? Just something that bounced through the pachinko machine I use as a brain when I read what you wrote. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:35, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::::No real offense taken. For better or worse my brain has been molded to think and express this way (literary analysis), and I can get how this medium makes it hard to process. Anyway, I totally see the argument of the 13 being different guys, if that's the case they totally need a split, but are they? Other than Logos, who's a vaguely defined maybe from Takara's side of the house, who else varies, that we know of? Megatronus/Fallen, Nexus, Vector, they've all been fully-confirmed. Is there anyone else on the Multiverse-list that's NOT on the Aligned-list? We've got problems in the OTHER direction, A3 being all SG'd up, LeigeMaximo maybe being hard to reckon. But I don't think those rough-fit issues would invalidate the membership rolls. BTW Khajidha- that's a BRILLIANT notion. I think it'l be fanon in my brain from here forward :) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 09:02, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
"''Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities.''" 
No, we really are not. Aaron and Rik, the two guys largely responsible for the Aligned universe deal, were very much concerned about the continuity matter because they do know what fans are like. Not bragging, but I know this from personal correspondence and interaction with them through occasional paid work for the two for the [[Binder of Revelation]]. Aligned was explicitly meant to be a separate entity ''with no bleed-back into what came before''. What was true for what came before ''remained'' true for what came before and for whatever ongoing fictions within that framework would come (IDW, FunPub, movies), but would have no bearing on what came later in Aligned beyond "potential inspirational starting point for a premise". "G1" Wheeljack isn't a hardassed sword-swinging Wrecker now, Bumblebee still talks, etc etc. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:55, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
::Okay, it sounds like the answer to this is "yes", but just to check: do you know from that correspondence whether this separation also applies to the divine Unicron and Primus, meaning that they should be split as well?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:03, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I do not know for certain, I didn't ask. Going by the known intent, I can ''guess'' that the answer is ''probably'' "yes"... BUT. What we do know of Unicron and Primus so far in Aligned does not, to the best of my knowledge, actually ''contradict'' the two's non-Aligned multiversal backstory. So splitting Uni and Primus, so far, is STILL a point of contention without a clear answer. The Aligned stuff does not apply to the past stuff... but the past stuff might be used as the basis for Aligned stuff. I think we'd need to know more about the origin story of the two in Aligned before we can REALLY make the call to split. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:50, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:: Close enough to the horse's mouth for me. Pending KK's questons about the divinities being asnwered, I'll not argue any further.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:39, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

===Revisiting===
To revisit this discussion six months later and after the Covenant and what it has told us about the "Thirteenth Prime", I don't think we really have any ''choice'' at this point but to have separate "Multiverse" and "Aligned" pages for the Thirteen. We could use this one as a hub page and keep the "conceptual history" section on for ease of explanation, then have separate links off to those articles for member lists and fiction respective to the two groups. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 10:01, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:So the multiverse Thirteen list would be Prima, Vector Prime, Nexus Prime, Liege Maximo, the Fallen, and Logos Prime, right? I guess this would also entail new Aligned-only articles for those guys (minus Logos) too... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:58, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::I ''guess'', but in most cases that honestly that seems like it would be only done as a matter of wiki standards, rather than because the articles as they are now are inherently "wrong". Like, I really don't think there'd be any point to splitting out Primus and Unicron's aligned stuff into articles of their own, for instances. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:35, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:::There is also the matter of "[[Timeless]]" having [[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]] getting a peak at (what we have determined to be) the Aligned Continuity. Whether that suggests that it's the Club's way of saying that Aligned is within the Multiverse or not is still up for debate. If it isn't, then Rhinox must have surpassed the Multiverse's boundries to get a glimpse from the outside of it. But if it is, then... I just really don't know anymore. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:00, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::::I don't think we need to append any special significance to that. The club's been very good about treating the Aligned stuff as "separate", whether it's describing the universe that Rhinox views as far out and unclassified, or talking about TFSS Slipstream's mysterious origins on her bio-card. Understand, mind you, that I find the sentence "separate from the multiverse" to be amazingly frustrating and dumb and all my senses shift to white noise for a moment when I hear it since it defeats the entire point of HAVING a multiverse with these rules at all, but it is what it is and I deal. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:48, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::::Eh, it does kinda give our "[[Omniverse]]" page a bit more weight to it, though. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:12, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:I'm not sure why Covenant would make splitting THIS page necessary. It's not like we have two entirely separate lists of the Thirteen members -- we have one full Aligned list and one incomplete Multiversal list, with only one point of contention between the two that I'm aware of (Logos Prime). And if the much, much longer pages for Primus, Unicron, even the Wreckers can be multiversal and aligned, then The Thirteen can be too. Yes, The Thirteenth Prime is one crazy bag of cats, but that's its own problem; it doesn't have to influence the Thirteen page, anymore than having separate Alpha Trion pages did. Let Thirteenth Prime's page deal with him, but we don't need to spread that crazy to the rest of the wiki just so that his page makes more sense. Or is there some other bone of contention with Covenant's content? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:07, 30 December 2013 (EST)
::At a minimum, the "Members" section needs to be split into "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:01, 31 December 2013 (EST)
:::Agreed. That's a given. Who all is a confirmed member of the Thirteen outside of Aligned, though? '''Vector Prime''' and '''Nexus Prime''', definitely. '''Logos Prime''' was identified as a contemporary of Vector Prime, so that should count. '''The Fallen''' and '''Prima''' from ''The Ultimate Guide''. '''Liege Maximo''' remains unconfirmed as a Multiversal Thirteen, though, right? Six others were created for Aligned, and we all know the stories with '''Alpha Trion''' and '''Optimus'''. That's it, I think.--[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:02, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::''The Ultimate Guide'' named Liege Maximo as a Multiversal 13er. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:47, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:::::I don't have the ''Guide'', but the Conceptual History as written makes it sounds ambiguous. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:31, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::::Hm, so it does. Lemme check the book again. ''*goes to look at the book*'' Okay, upon further examination, it states that ''Alignment'' confirms his as a 13er, so I guess the ambiguity of this in the Conceptual History is accurate in regards to that story's apocryphal status. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 17:08, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:You know, now that we've split the Multiversal 13 from the Aligned 13, that rumor about [[Maccadam]] being one of the Multiversal 13 mentioned in ''The Ultimate Guide'' no longer seems fruitless. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:22, 3 January 2014 (EST)

===Revisiting Pt. 2===
So, what's the ultimate consensus, split or leave the pages as is? [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] ([[User talk:Mimi|talk]]) 17:54, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

===Revisiting Pt. 3===

There's new media with which to look back and reinterpret the clusterfuck that is the Covenant of Primus. Specifically, [[The Crucible]], or RID #34, goes into great depth of the exploits of the Thirteen towards the end of their time. This matches up relatively closely with Aligned fiction. Does this mean we can re-merge the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists of Thirteen, with a singular note regarding Logos versus Optimus? [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 10:01, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:IDW may be re-tailoring their notion of the Thirteen into a more workable form, but merging the lists depends heavily upon the no longer true "multiversal singularity" notion. We see no indication that the Primes from IDW are multiversal singularities. They're far more like the Aligned Primes in that they're from one universe only. If anything, I think this more supports ''further'' fracturing our list so we don't have to keep trying to reconcile the movieverse versus Aligned versus the Unicron Trilogy presentation of them.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:54, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
::We almost ''never'' see any indication that any of the Primes are multiversal singularities, because that is only actual relevant to stories that are about the multiverse. There's nothing about the Fallen in either War Within or ROTF to indicate he's not "from one universe only," or Vector Prime in the Cybertron cartoon, or Prima and the Liege Maximo in the Marvel Comics, etc. That is how this has always worked. For most of the Thirteen, and also Primus and Unicron for that matter, being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction in which nothing whatsoever is said to indicate other universes even exist, because it's a background detail only relevant to obscure fan club stuff and the like. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:13, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:::To clarify, I don't personally see any problem with keeping all information on the Thirteen as a group here rather than in separate articles. I just think increasingly we should organize it more along the lines of the Wreckers article, and acknowledge that the Thirteen can have different rosters in different universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 12:27, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

::::''"being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction"''
:::Isn't that a textbook example of "the tail wagging the dog"? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness|talk]]) 11:27, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:In any case, while this page can certainly remain in its current form, covering the 13 concept cross-continuities in much the same way as the Wreckers page, the splitting of the multiversal versions and the Aligned versions of the characters included in both lists (Nexus, Prima, Fallen, Liege Maximo, and, now, Onyx) is long past due. -- [[User:Shellspark|Shellspark]] ([[User talk:Shellspark|talk]]) 01:37, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
::This is 100% true. Nexus Prime isn't even made of the same people, for crying out loud. -[[User:LV|LV]] ([[User talk:LV|talk]]) 10:48, 25 October 2014 (EDT)

Where would the IDW Thirteen be covered if we split their character articles into multiverse and Aligned? There's no evidence that they were that universe's original Transformers or that they were born to Primus. They seem more like regular people than the typical demigods. I'd be tempted to suggest splitting every single member of the Thirteen by continuity family, same as Alpha Trion. Hasbro has very obviously abandoned the notion of multiversal singularities, even for stuff like IDW that's technically part of the pre-Aligned multiverse. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:40, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:There are still canonical stories featuring the Thirteen hopping universes though, so it's important to keep some together. I wouldn't mind if we gave the Movie Fallen his own page though.
:I want to ask, are we going to cover IDW's 13 here or not? I'm itching to add Alpha Trion to the multiverse list. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

== New information from the Complete AllSpark Almanac and 2015 Facebook blogs ==

How shall we proceed with the new information that there can be both singularity and non-singularity iterations of the Thirteen in the [[multiverse]], of which the [[Aligned continuity family]] is now a part of as [[Uniend]]? Also, Ask Vector Prime has Vector Prime referring to Logos Prime and Liege Maximo in the same post. Can we finally put Liege back onto the mainstream multiverse list? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 13:47, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:Are we really treating everything Ask Vector Prime says as canon? I doubt every answer he's giving is being run past Hasbro or whoever. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:24, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::I've talked to the author of the page, and it's basically allowed to answer things that the Club is allowed to work wit, and vice versa-for example, he can't talk about anything that has to do with the things in the Bay movies. So I'd say that it's something that's been approved by Hasbro, and making it easier so they don't have to ring up Hasbro HQ every couple hours and ask them if the answer they provide for a Facebook promotion is acceptable. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:29, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, but what I'm saying is if Vector Prime says Fixit in RID is a dimension-hopping Pipo from Victory, that's not going to mean we have to merge the Fixit (RID) and Pipo pages, right? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:08, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, no. But then I doubt they're allowed to use the current series anyway. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:16, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::I really don't think that's a hypothetical that will happen. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:19, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::Indeed, no, I was using it as a theoretical example. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:23, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Oh well, too late I guess. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:09, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
Oh heck, [[Ask Vector Prime]] just said that it was Solus Prime who used her Forge to shatter the Star Saber that mainstream multiverse Nexus Prime has been looking for! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:35, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

== Revisiting yet again ==

While I know I was the one to raise the subject of splitting these characters after the distinct versions of them appeared in the Covenant, I think IDW's take on them requires us to talk on this again, as does our recent change in perspective regarding accessibility of our articles. IDW's Thirteen are based on the Aligned Thirteen (with Optimus Prime being the outlier unanswered question right now), and we've just had some recently commentary from "Vector Prime" on Facebook regarding the blending of the Uniened cluster with the multiverse.

I think Sipher's remark when talking about Unicron and doing exactly the same thing with him is worth quoting here: "We don't split "Cybertron (planet)" into different pages via continuity. Or "Autobot" or "Decepticon" or "spark" etc etc. While these are all in-universe "things" they're also broader multiversal concepts, and we already approach those with a slight... distance if you will. I feel like these meta-deals like Unicron, Primus, The Thirteen, etc, could benefit from treating them the same way we do those pages... stepping back a little and treating them less like concrete THINGS with a rigid this-is-exactly-it approach right out of the gate, and more as concepts with broad-strokes facets that are almost always true but the details will vary (sometimes wildly)."

I think we seriously need to look at treating the individual Thirteen character articles like this. I don't think it would require any change to ''this'' page—we would still maintain separate lists of who's who in the group in the different "realms", it's just that the the character articles we'd be linking to (with the obvious exception of Optimus) would be the same ones. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
*Agreed. If I recall correctly, a previous fly in the ointment was Shattered Glass Alpha Trion versus Forrest Lee's statement about no SG The Fallen at the top of this talk page. However, another Ask Vector Prime answer suggests that travelling to negative polarity streams attempts to flip the nature of singularities, providing a canon counterpoint and reducing the no SG thirteen thing to authorial intent. So with that in mind, I'd say I'm for this. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 06:18, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::Given some of the hints about how the rules of Singularities are soon to change, perhaps a wait and see attitude would be prudent. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:04, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::: *squint*What're you up to, Sorenson...? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:45, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Honesty, just trying to save you some work. (Whatever may or may not happen, I'm not the impetus.)--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:14, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::According to various Ask Vector Prime answers, the rules have already changed: we have non-singularity versions of Unicron, Primus-less Cybertrons, Aligned was outside the multiverse and is now back in. Pretty much everything about How This Stuff Works is up in the air right now. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::The ambiguity was my main reason for proposing a condensing of the information into as few places as possible so it can more easily be explained, but if the word is that there's about to be some new exploration of what all this means in-fiction, then yes, we probably ought to hold off. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:28, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::I agree with holding off for now. After all, the current Fun Publications storylines seem to be all about restoring balance to the destabilized multiverse. Plus, Aligned Megatronus is going to appear in the ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'' cartoon and singularity Nexus Prime might appear in ''[[Another Light]]'' later this year. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 14:05, 28 May 2015 (EDT)

Remember this? Now that all's said and done, I stick by it. With IDW continuity continuing to do more and more with the Thirteen, depicting the characters and their backstories as they appeared in Aligned fiction, I'm even more convinced that the different incarnations need to live on the same page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:26, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:So, who should stay separate? Optimus and Alpha Trion, obviously; Megatronus and Vector feel like borderline cases, so maybe they should be split off using suites. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with merging them all. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:48, 16 November 2015 (EST)
::Agreed on Optimus and Trion; for Megatronus and Vector, rather than a straight split, I'd go for more of a standard split-out page like we do for "Generation 1 cartoon continuity" or "IDW Generation 1 continuity", with a small write-up on the main article page that links off to a larger page containing the full run-down, plus a suite, as you say. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:51, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:::The Community Portal had [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#Multiversal singularities|a discussion]] in which people liked the idea of using suites for some of the more wildly different versions (like SG versions) of these guys. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:13, 16 November 2015 (EST)

== I count fourteen " Multiverse Thirteen..." ==

1.Prima, 2. Vector Prime, 3. Megatronus, 4. Nexus Prime, 5. Logos Prime, 6. Micronus Prime, 7. Liege Maximo, 8. Solus Prime, 9. Epsitimus, 10. Autonomous Maximus, 11. Solomus, 12. Onyx Prime, 13. Alchemist Prime, 14. Alpha Trion...
Alpha Trion is omitted from the list in the article itself, while Micronus Prime is omitted from the template at the bottom of the article... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:Oh, wait, Trion was established as multiverse Thirteen at some point? I've not been keeping up with every single one of the Vector Prime posts... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:25, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::I think SOMEONE said Alpha Trion was a multiversal singularity at some point, but I'm certain it wasn't Vector Prime. I think it was way back when Multiversal singularities were established as a thing by Hasbro. I'm not sure if it was meant all along to just mean Prime Alpha Trion was one of the Thirteen? I'm pretty confused by this whole thing to be honest. I was just pointing out the incongruity. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:28, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, I see, Trion was added to the multiverse Thirteen on the template back when he was established as belonging to the IDW Thirteen, who at this point are clearly just normal people. Checking again, the post that noted Autonomus, Solomus, etc. as being multiverse Thirteen specifically notes Trion as being one of the Aligned-specific ones. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::::This whole article is going to have to be majorly restructured anyway as there is no longer any such thing "mutliverse Thirteen" now that Aligned is part of the multiverse. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:08, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::Well we knew that was coming, as Jim intimated in the section above this one. The rupturing of the barrier between the Aligned family and the rest of the multiverse is doing ''something'' to the Thirteen that is basically going require this be re-written with "this is how it used to be, this is how it is now" approach, but whatever is is that's happened hasn't finished happening yet, so we should probably wait a bit. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Autonomous Maximus ==

I don't think it should be definitively stated that Autonomous and the Last Autobot are the same guy; in my opinion, the description seems to be a humorous reference to [[Anonymous Maximus]], given the similarity of name to the one we use on the wiki; the description given would work equally well for him. Similarly, I think the Maccadam part should be relegated to a trivia note on the Alchemist/Maccadam pages; if we are going to have it here, at least have a note stating that it wasn't explicit. The Autonomous thing, however, is much less clear in what it's referring to, so... [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:They both might be lonely sentinels, but Occam's Razor suggests that if one of them is being retconned into a member of the Thirteen, it's probably the one who's explicitly a servant of Primus and isn't the brother of someone who's definitely not a member of the Thirteen, y'know? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::That's as may be, but the name seems to deliberately evoke our term for Superion Maximus's brother. I admit that it's more likely to be the Last Autobot on a fictional level, but I think there's enough ambiguity there that we shouldn't call Autonomous = Last Autobot definitely canon. (Besides, maybe Anonymous Maximus is the same guy as the Last Autobot...) [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:47, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Personally, I don't see how saying the guy whose description is exactly that of the Last Autobot is the same guy as the Last Autobot is any more speculative than, for example, saying that an unnamed guy in a comic panel who looks exactly like Blue Bacchus is an appearance of Blue Bacchus, y'know? It's not even a "some say" kind of thing like with Maccadam - the sentence is clearly setting out to tell us that the Last Autobot is one of the Thirteen, it just doesn't use that name. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 20:43, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
"Anonymous Maximus" does not match the description of Autonomous Maximus at all. He wasn't a "lone sentinel," there were three others with him, and he has a brother who isn't one of the Thirteen, so aside from similar names I see nothing in common there. Autonomous is the Last Autobot, yeah, that works. He's also Superion Maximus's dead brother? Nope. Doesn't fit. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:36, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::There's really nothing linking him to the Anonymous Maximus besides a similar-sounding name. He's pretty gosh-darned clearly supposed to be the Last Autobot to the point that I'm not clear why definite language isn't being used. Perhaps a follow-up question to VP could clarify. Conversely, Alchemist Prime's bit seems quite deliberately worded to keep in-tune with the original "Maccadam is one of the Thirteen" thing, in that it's presented as just being a rumour that some people ''think'' might be the case (ie: his drunk patrons talking nonsense). - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Removing my line from the IDW section ==

AVP established that G1 Cartoon Unicron was NEVER part of the singularity, and in my interpretation the idea was that, even "outside" the Shroud event, it "just so happened" that Unicron was created while a truly singular version of him existed. Why couldn't the same apply to the IDW versions of the 13?

Here's another example: the Animated universe. AVP did a lot of hand-waving to make it so that Wyatt's pipe dream of no Primus could be true, even before the idea of the Shroud. Maybe something like that could apply to the IDW universe as well?

Point is, there's no reason that the IDW version ever "had to be part of" the Singular nature of the 13. If it's possible for non-singular versions of Unicron to exist, and if Primus can just straight up not be in certain universes, then maybe the IDWverse - and perhaps others - could have had entities similar to the 13 but "not ever part" of the singular versions of the 13. [[User:Magaroja|Magaroja]] ([[User talk:Magaroja|talk]]) 20:05, 6 March 2016 (EST)
:Yeah, but the Shroud retroactively explains ''why'', from our perspective, they weren't. It's catch-all bullshit-fu. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:38, 6 March 2016 (EST)

==Should the "Multiversal Thirteen" be renamed?==

Since the Multiversal Thirteen have literally been retconned out of existence, should they be renamed...something else? Like the Forgotten Thirteen, or the Former Thirteen, or something?

Also, related, why are the Multiversal Thirteen listed above the "Aligned" Thirteen when the Covenant of Primus was released before the Ask Vector Prime post? Especially since the "Aligned" Thirteen seem to be the Thirteen that are popping up in the comics and toys, and probably everything else going forward, it might be confusing for people.
[[User:ZakuConvoy|ZakuConvoy]] ([[User talk:ZakuConvoy|talk]]) 19:47, 7 March 2018 (EST)

==Extra image==
[[File:One-Primes.jpg|thumb]]

==Toys Section==

When official images for the Thirteen from the Age of the Primes toyline are released, should a section be added about these specific figures regarding these Thirteen members? Meaning not all Alpha Trions, Vector Primes, or Fallens, just these versions.
Basically what was done with the Wreck 'N Rule Collection on the Wreckers page? [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 10:42, 5 December 2024 (PST)

Any decision yet? [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 07:20, 6 December 2024 (PST)

User talk:TFEarthConquest

2024-12-05T18:55:31Z

TFEarthConquest: Blanked the page

Talk:Thirteen

2024-12-05T18:46:06Z

TFEarthConquest: Sorry about all these minor edits. Just making sure it makes sense and fits with the rest of the entries.

{{Note|At the Botcon 2009 Question panel, [[Forest Lee]] (Hasbro's internal TF continuity guy) when asked what The Fallen would be like in "Shattered Glass" finally stated explicitly that The Fallen '''was''' a multiversal singularity-- there is no "SG" Fallen.. there is only The Fallen, one guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT) reported by Walky}}

==Multiversal singularities==
Are the first 13 all "continuity singularities" as Primus and Unicron are? One version existing across all realities? Vector Prime definately seems to be, and Maccadam as well if you include "Prime Spark" as cannon. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

How can Unicron jump continuities wih all his different HISTORIES? he spent MILLIONS OF YEARS as Cybertrons' MOON fergods sake!

The whole singularities thing is a godawful mess. You have to start acceptign that Unicron, who DEMONSTRABLY spends tens or tens of MILLIONs of years in individual continuities is time-travelign as WELL as jumping continuities. Which is fine, but for some reason in the Armada comic he doesn't, and no one's ever even HEARD of Unicron before, he's a completely external threat with no history in this universe.

But then, I think brad Mick intended Thundercracker to be one of the 13, so what do I know? It's not like I have a decent track record at pattern recognition or anything... ''*cough*predaconpolitics*cough*''

Also, IS Primus a singularity across all continuities? I could have sworn we saw him DIE. ''I hate the sucky TFU-type Multiverse! it sucks, it sucks '''so hard''' Gregory!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

...why is it impossible that no one's ever heard of Unicron in the Armada universe until he shows up? It makes perfect sense to me. Hell, the only person who's ever even investigated or shown more than a little interest Cybertron's past in the Armadaverse is Overrun, and he was from another universe anyway. If there's only one Unicron and infinite universes, of COURSE he's going to be new to some of them! Derik, start making sense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

but if he's new to SOMe of them, how is he ancient in MANY of them? :~( does he exist simultaneously in the past of many universes? The marvel US Comic and Aramda toon BOTh, for instance, have Unicron at different locations in space in the year 2020. Is he time-traveling?

I guess mostly i just bitch because I think it sucks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

I took it as a given that he time-travels when he moves between dimensions. This isn't really that hard to figure out, man. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Say, do we know enough about how the TF multiverse works to say for sure that when it's 1977 in one universe it's 1977 in them all?
--[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

The Ultimate Guide refers to the non-Fallen original Cybertronic Transformers as "Prima and the Twelve", which, while not clear, implies to me that Prima is in addition to the twelve. Also, I see no reason to casually discount Primon's existence or Matrix-holding simply because we know Prima was the first Transformer on Cybertron - we know there were Transformers before Cybertron because the Covenant of Primus predate its creation. Primon could have held the Matrix before Prima ever existed.

Maccaddam being anything other than a bar-owner was a goddamn joke, and Legends explicitly de-continuities itself so its stories can't be used to support arguments. Prime Spark was a WARendfeld story anyway.

''(next part of argument contains minor spoilers for the club comic''

And I don't understand the concern about Unicron at all. He's not one guy who travels between all continuities, he's a single entity that exists in all continuities (or none, presently) simultaneously. That's why the Unicron the TFU away team flew to was in the depths of our space in Year-The-End-Of-BM-Plus-One but vanished when the Unicron in Energon was destroyed. Simply because he was a dormant moon in the Armadaverse in 1991 has no bearing on his activities in 1991 in the G1 comic (eating Cybertron) or the G1 cartoon (cruising around the universe to a groovy synth soundtrack). The same is clearly true of Primus - otherwise, you have to assume he's been physically dimension-hopping-and-time-travelling around the multiverse as well, which is not the case because otherwise there would only be a Cybertron in one universe at any given time. The club comic's discussion of Cybertron-as-hinge-point supports my view, I think.

Vector Prime is unlike Unicron and Primus in that he is a single entity existing in a single continuity at any given time, no different from Axer. It's possible that one of the Twelve in every continuity is a Vector Prime analogue, but in my opinion we don't have nearly enough evidence to say one way or another. -[[User:LV|LV]] 15:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree strongly, LV. Though Unicron has the ability to move between dimensions at will, he is confined to one universe at a time. According to the Club comic itself, Primus is "a single, infinite curvea cross all realities; the only truly unique thing in all of creation." Unicron is "bound always by his imprisonment in a physical body, he's been incapable of destroying mroe than one reality at a time." Thing is, being dead in the black hole *changed*this dynamic. The Unicron singularity is what has, for the first time, consolidated the Unicron of allwhens into one black hole which is beginning to perpetuate itself across every timeline. This is why Cybertron's Unicron is beginning to affect Universe's Unicron. This occurrence is a new situation, unique to this storyline. It can't be used as evidence to support Unicron's properties in normal circumstances. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Then I agree with Derik. If Unicron only exists one place at one time, it is essentially irreconcilable with what has been shown in the fiction. If Unicron can happily time-travel when he changes dimensions, then there is nothing preventing him from existing in all dimensions simultaneously. He simply travels to the beginning of each when he leaves the previous one, thus existing linearly from his own perspective but simultaneously across all universes from every single other being's. You cannot have a time-and-space-travelling Unicron and a Unicron that can only be in one dimension at a time from any perspective but his own. In other words, as was said already, we can definitely place Unicron in at least two continuities in 1991, since he was actively eating Cybertron and orbiting Cybertron. If canon says otherwise, then it's canon, but it is fundamentally illogical and unworkable. And yes yes, transforming aliens from a planet the size of Saturn made of metal blah blah blah, but there is "unrealistic premise" and there is "an explanation which in no ways accounts for any of the material it purports to explain". But oh well. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

But they were two different 1991s, man, in different timelines. He's not in 1991 twice at the same time, he's in two distinct 1991s at different times. Hell, as Kil said above, we don't even know that when it's 1977 in one universe, it's 1977 in them all. Hell, when it's 2030AD in the Unicron Trilogy, it's been demonstrated that it's apparently ~2350AD in Generation 1! I do not see it as irreconcileable. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing which is better illustrated with a picture, but Unicron CANNOT time-travel when changing dimensions without allowing the possibility of existing in multiple continuities simultaneously. That is just the way it is with multiple simultaneously-existing timelines. If you do not want them to be the same year, that is fine. Unicron can nonetheless exist in 2030AD in UT and 2350AD in G1 simultaneously if he can time-travel.

It is not an issue for debate; the canon says what it says. However, the canonical explanation is irrational. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Here I was thinking no one would respond to this while I was at work and I come back to "this." Let's put this in talking points:

1) Primus is one single pan-dimensional being existing simultaniously in all continuities. We're all agreed on that right? We can like it or dislike it, but at the moment that's what cannon says.

2)Unicron has only ever existed in one continuity at a time (until Cybertron). Fine. Let's look at that. It *IS*odd that the brothers would be different this way without explination and that if he could jump through time and dimensions completely at will he wouldn't always jump to the begining of each one, and so, yes, to all perspectives but his own exist everywhen at once. There are two possible solutions to that part of the issue: either A) He can't travel through time in an unlimited fasion but only make small jumps time-wise or with great difficulty, or B) He cannot travel in time at all, not even when he jumps universes, but as Walky suggested, time is not in the same reletive place across universe. ie - When it's 1985 in the cartoon maybe it's only 1945 in the IDW books. If he jumped between them he would seem to travel intime but would not actually do so. Do those work, at least as a plausible enough to forget the iffyness solutions?

3)Why dismiss Maccadam as a joke? The entry in the DK guide seemed perfectly serious to me. Did it leave question as to whether it was true or a rummor? Sure. But I don't see anything that leans the suggestion one way or another. I rather like the idea myself. Legends, does put itself purposefully out of continuity, true, BUT when you're dealing with a multiverse can you totally do that? I mean if there are infinite universes the ones from Legends must be included in their somewhere right?

4)Getting back to my original question: Is the concensus that there are multiple Vector Prime's across continuities? It just seems that if his job is to safeguard space time that'd make things awefully complicated with ALL of him jumping around and constantly running into each other. Would one single Primus make an infinitude of reality jumping Vector Primes? And if he did, why doesn't an infinite army of VPs show up at each trouble spot to deal with the problem and wipe out and Unicron/Decepticon problems while they're at it? So far we've only seen ONE Vector Prime at work across the whole spectrum of past TF universe. We're sure he's not a singularity?

[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I can no longer make conclusions about Vector Prime based on the ludicrous canonical explanation for Unicron, so I abstain from commenting on him. However, I maintain that the reference in the UG to Maccaddam is clearly a joke - they're talking about a bar, and they immediately say that this absurd claim that the barkeeper is a legendary ancient Transformer with the observation that they serve extremely strong drinks. It's a joke about being drunk. Entirely in-character for Furman. -[[User:LV|LV]] 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

See I just don't read the Maccadam entry that way at all. It reads serious to me. The final line is meant to put a bit of humorus doubt on the rest, but only a bit of doubt/mystery IMO. Maccadam's has always been a bit of a special place and a pet local of Furman's and I can totally see him quite seriously setting it up to be used this way. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ in our takes on it. The important thing for the Wikki is that Maccadam remains a rumored, but not confirmed, member of the 13. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I had another thought, the better to muddy the waters. With Unicron and Primus having god or near-god status, could their being the same, er, being doesn't necessarily mean they're actually bouncing back and forth between dimensions and times all the time? Could they be 'aspects' or 'splinters' of the same being?
(Way to be obscure: There's a ''Doctor Who'' story called ''The City of Death'' which has a neat example, but moving on...)
This could be what makes them so hard to finally kill, if they've got the entirety of their 'selves' spread out across multiple realities at a time. This also means it's not hard for Unicron to attack in the Marvel reality in 1991, the Dreamwave UT reality in 2003, the Movie reality in 2005, and so on. He doesn't (always) travel between dimensions, he just already exists that way.
Hmmm...OK, maybe that made sense.
[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 05:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

:If Macadam as a member of the 13 was a joke, why did the pictue of Macadam's bad show characters from multiple continuities?

:Everyone sseems really comfortable saying "There's only one Primus, just liek Unicron." I admit I've msised some material lately- vould someone please tell me '''where''' this was established? Because-- we've kinda seen Primus die.

::and Unicron. But it's a fair point. For all their apparent similarities, Primus and Unicron represent fundamentally different things, so it's not unreasonable to assume that some aspects of them differ wildly. If Unicron represents chaos, then his random appearances and contradictory histories suddenly make quite a bit more sense to me. He's not MEANT to obey the normal rules. It's against his very nature.

:Unicron time-traveling I dont' really gundamentally have a hard time accepting. We saw in Worlds Collide (?) that the untuned Transwarp Space Bridge portals were flittign across space AND time, showing pictures of the distant past (BW) and buture (BW Neo/BM) as well as plainly laternate worlds (RiD.) So it's '''possible''' that Whisper's world Unicron was coming from int he very deep and distant future, and he decided that the Armada-toonverse was weak and ignorant enough he could just show up in the present and demolish it, and didn't need to lay deep plans to do so.

:But- where the hell did dreamwave!Armada's Mini-cons come from then if not Unicron?

:Has Unicron even marauded across 'infinite' realities? In Worlds Collide they call it his ''Ninth Emergence.'' That's not infinite realities. That's '''nine''' realities. And so what was up with Primus saying Unicron ate the previous Universe in us!Marvel#74? Was he just '''lying''' for no reason?

:My main complaint witht he Multiversal Unicron we were presented with si that it '''doesn't make sense''', not that they didnt' explain it all, it's that '''no''' possible explanation seems to explain it all. And not tiny inconstencies- massive, glaring fundamentally unworkable inconsistencies. Inconsistencies even in the material generated that's suppsoed to explain how this all works!

:Kang's explanation form Marvel comics, with time-travel and th war to pin down his various aspects works. Except- we'rs '''explicitly told''' that no, that's '''not''' the case. So... bah. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Primus and Unicron exist across multiple continuities, because they are Gods, and represent chaos and order. However, they CAN be removed from a given continuty, and still continue to exist in others.

Vector Prime exists across all continuities and times, because it's in his job description. (Even though he technically died, his "younger self" is still in the timestream, capable of visiting anywhere and anywhen.)

We know Unicron can manipulate time (Like when he yanked Galvatron II from a future timeline to use as his minion in the present) so it makes sense that he can travel through time. The only incongruity with this is if he is indeed a single entity hopping through timelines, then why would the Unicron singularity mess with him while he was in the Universe.. err.. Universe. It either wouldn't have happened to him yet, or would have been in his past; either way he wouldn't have gotten sucked into it from a different universe unless he either was a multiple Universe entity like Primus, or the singularity is something that winds up being both in his past and his future an infinite ammount of times.--[[User:UndeadScottsman|UndeadScottsman]] 07:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

------------------------------------
Wasn't The Last Autobot called such, because he was the last Autobot made by Primus? Shouldn't he have been one of the 13?

Or am I totally off base here? Again.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Without more information, it's impossible to say. As far as I can tell, he's unique to the G1 comic continuity. Though he otherwise bears a number of striking resemblences to Vector Prime. In any case, this debate is probably better suited for [[Talk:Last_Autobot]].

T^he last Autobot was a name given to him by those who came later, not Primus. He's also known as The Ultimate Warrior and The Soulof Cybertron. He is convieniently refered to as TLA by fans because 1) his true name was never revealed 2) That was the tittle of one of the issues of the Marvel comic, giving the most 'weight' to that name of his 3. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
:(Part of comment deleted. I misread your statement. Sorry.) TLA is actually referred to as such by Optimus Prime on several occasions. It was in fact the title of issue #79 (something to keep in mind for disambiguation!), and Spike Witwicky also refers to himself as "TLA" in that issue. But at the same time, I'd say it's reasonably obvious that "TLA" is not the name Primus gave him.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
------------------------------------
As well as being mentioned in a Japanese timeline, Alpha Trion actually specically states that he is "a first generation product of Vector Sigma" in the TV show. Can't be sure of the episode offhand, but is very probably The Key To Vector Sigma.

I think that this may rule him out of being one of the Thirteen. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

:Really? I would have thought it made Alpha Trion an especially good candidate. I guess it comes down to what one considers Vector Sigma to be.... (By the way, please use signatures!)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Every flashback to the birth of the 13 shows them arising full-born from the ground. No Vector Sigma involved. Trion may be among the first of the first 'production generation' that came after that. (This, of course, holds up only until they retcon it, but ancient as Trion always seemed ot me- it was never 'ancient enough to be one of the 13.') -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::::Certainly a plausible interpretation. But I wouldn't consider the matter closed one way or the other.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure the thirteen were supposed to have been created BEFORE Primus became Cybetron. Vector Sigma apparently also pre-dated Cybertron, but I figure Vector Sigma wasn't pressed into service creating Transformers immediately. Infact, probably not 'till the Quintessons came along and installed the shell program that became the Oracle. But as you say, this period of Transformers pre-history is notoriously sketchy. I'll certainly be interested to see if they ever fill in the gaps. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

::::::The only pre-Cybertron Transformers I know of are from the text story [[Reaching the Omega Point]]. Before Primus trapped himself and Unicron in the planetoids, he had to be sure that the trick wour work, and that he would be able to shape his prison. So he shunted a bit of his essence into some lifeless rock and created the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]], 12 Transformers based on our Earth zodiac. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 12:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Implicitly, [[Primon]] must also have been created before Cybertron, since we know he predates Prima as Matrix-holder and we know Prima was the first Transformer created on Cybertron. (Which may actually also imply that the Liege Maximo predates Cybertron... -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::: Doesn't the Leige Maximo say though that when the first named Prime "rose from Cybertron" or something like that that he did too. That definately implies They were created there. Primon I think is simply an annomoly, a glitch in Furman's telling of the story that will likely never be followed up on.
::::::::: [[:Image:Liegemaximo.jpg|Here's the text]]. Considering we don't know when the "first named Prime" was created, that's a meaningless statement, so it's not helpful to us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't this page be at "Thirteen original Transformers"? It would certainly make the bold part at the beginning look better. -[[User:LV|LV]] 06:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
: Done. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

=="Original"?==
Are these guys REALLY the first TFs? My reading of the stories puts the Covenant before them, since the whole idea of the Covenant being a test-run makes any functional predecessors nonsensical. I suppose the argument could be made that The 13 are fundamentally different beings from the rest of Transformerdom - maybe even easier for Primus to create - and a test was still necessary to determine if he could make creatures that were fully mired in space-time. (Though the Covenant was still AWARE of multi-dimensional events, and in fact seemed to serve much the same purpose as The 13...)

But even that aside, there's still the practical notion that The 13 were created ''for'' Cybertron, and Cybertron didn't exist yet when the Covenant was created. So, that having been said, what's the evidence that The 13 are actually "original"?

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Basically: they aren't. If you include the Covenant, the Thirteen aren't the "original" Transformers at all, since they are necessarily predated by the Covenant for all the reasons you cite, as well as, inferentially, Primon and the Liege Maximo. Functionally, they are referred to as the "original thirteen" or "first thirteen" regardless of this, probably because not even Furman thinks about the Covenant when writing TF backstory. I think for logistical purposes it remains a useful name for them on this wiki - without it, they basically don't have any meaningful group name, and that's inconvenient - but I do think there should be some kind of indication in this article that some Transformers are more original than these fellows. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

== The Ancients ==

I'm not sure where to place it, so I put it here as, um, sorta reference. :) --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 08:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:In the original Japanese dub of "Galaxy Force", [[Vector Prime]] is depicted as one of "The Ancients".

:According to the background settings of ''Galaxy Force'' anime, "The Ancients" is the earliest Transformers in the world/continuity of "Galaxy Force" (not "Cyertron").

:Though "The Thirteen" is mentioned by [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html The World of Transformers], the site doesn't confirm that "The Thirteen = The Ancients" by far. What the site only mentioned is that there are two theories of the origin of Transformer race.

:So, by far, The Ancients is not the same group as The Thirteens, unless someday comes up an official information stating they are the same.
::Agreed. So shouldn't someone take the Logos Prime person off? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 17:26, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

== Logos Prime ==

He's in both the confirmed and possible lists. Which is it? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Magnus Maximus moved it to possible, Walky added to confirmed but didn't remove the possible, MM removed the duplicate in "confirmed", Walky blocked MM over it and readded it to "confirmed" while still leaving it in "possible". - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:12, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:: Argh, there's MORE stuff to change back? Is this the same dude we were reverting before? Some dude out there has a really serious hate-on for this Logos Prime thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Uhm... I don't think content was deleted here, just the "confirmed" status of Logos Prime questioned.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:14, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::What's left to confirm? The evidence is stacked up. Logos Prime would have to be the red herring of red herrings to not be what this wiki says, and that's kind of ridiculous. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Derik, what the hell. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:43, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Y'know, ''by definition'' if this 13 crap covers THEWHOLEENTIRETFMULTIVERSEBYE, then Macaddam should be in "confirmed"... :p - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Not in a story that is specifically stated to be non-canon, "just for fun." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:15, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::On a multiverse level, it's impossible NOT to be canon. Which is one of my major problems with this whole pile, actually. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::[[Author intent]] should be something this wiki describes and leaves up to individual fan judgment--not something we firmly take sides on in establishing internal-to-story facts. The entire reason we have articles for the "real" Transformer characters [[Geosensus]] and [[Paddles]] is that Cian's proviso is contradicted by the pre-existing context of a TF Multiverse, which I suspect he never knew existed. Having said that, Legends never actually specifically says Maccadam is one of the 13; it says he's multiversal, which fulfills ''half'' of the joke from the Ultimate Guide.<--Thy, can't login on IE.

So... MM moved the info (not '''deleted''' it, '''moved'''), Walky put the info back in the old place thus meaning the info was now put twice on the page, then banned MM because he removed one of the duplicate instances? Just making sure I got this straight. 
And no, MM is not the same guy we were reverting before. MM is the guy who's been adding a lot of valuable info like missing covers and stuff on the commercial bumper and scene transition pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:16, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, you got it straight. He originally blocked him for a month as "YOU ARE DELETING CONTENT RIGHT NOW", then cut it to a week as "It's not smart to get in a revert war with an admin." - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::Well, then, remind me never to correct any mistakes, because I apparently might get reverted and banned for it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::That occurred to me too... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:So the original change was related to the previous discussion on this talk page about the Ancients not being the same thing as the first Thirteen? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
::Correct. [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=301252&oldid=301026 MM edit 1 diff], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301252 Willis adds a duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301254 MM removes duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301257 Willis reverts previous edit]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:::Based on this, I'm going out on a limb here and unbanning the guy. Seems like a pretty draconian punishment over what appears to be mostly a misunderstanding. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:58, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, that was fun. Thanks for getting this situation sorted, guys. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 09:31, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

== Nexus Maximus ==

The five silhouettes next to Vector Prime seem to strongly resemble the individual components of Nexus Maximus, and since the five are both Transformers and part of a being considered "one of the thirteen", is it possible that they are numbered members as well? I mean, technically they are five transformers that were created in the first batch, so maybe?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I would say no. Nexus Maximus is a member of the 13, but his 5 component pieces aren't. [[Special:Contributions/76.240.201.195|76.240.201.195]] 18:39, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

==Defiance==
To be clear - is that image depicting the trans-dimensional whatsits, or the first batch of "Transformers" made to serve them?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
:The first batch of "Transformers." There are actually two more in a different panel but this was the best group shot. [[:Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|This is]] the creation of the trans-dimensional whatsits. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 07:50, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, then the text needs to make that clearer, because right now it reads as if it's equating these Seekers/Constructicons with the Fallen and such.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 17:42, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Trans-dimensional AllSpark creations ==

Zuh? Why not The Thirteen?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:Well, they aren't Transformers for one thing. They are a separate race. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:15, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::...but we have no reason to believe they're not The Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:16, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh. Hmmm. The 13 aren't Transformers? That article should be renamed then. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:20, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::The article is just... I don't know. I don't think it conveys information. I think if anything it ''obfuscates'' information to obey some sort of semantic point.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:24, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::They do play the same general role. It didn't occur to me that they might be the 13 since they aren't Transformers. The articles would have to be merged carefully. In the live-action continuity there is the Fallen's race ''and'' 13 original Transformers (which would be the first 13 beings of the new Transformer's race). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:41, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::You invented what amounts to a fan term to explain what you believe to be a contradiction. We are needlessly multiplying entities here.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::The Fallen: "It gave us workers, but they were ''not like us''. They were special and were to be the first of ''your race''. Creatures born with the ability to change their forms." It seems pretty clear the Fallen's kind aren't Transformers. The Fallen could be distorting the facts, I suppose (he is The Fallen), or has a fuzzy memory. I'm not against merging this with the 13 Transformers, but I would be interested in how it was explained. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:48, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I dunno, saying that the Fallen and his brothers "aren't Transformers" seems to me to be a bit like saying we shouldn't have [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] in the Female Transformers category. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 22:07, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::Hell, half the Matrix Guides, including Alpha Trion, shouldn't be considered Transformers! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:09, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::That doesn't seem to be a contradiction at all, Starfield. Even in the original continuity that had the thirteen, wasn't transformation an invention from later on? And Vector Prime still was eventually able to do it, so it's not unreasonable to assume that while the Trans-dimensionals weren't ''born'' with the ability to change their form, they modified themselves to do it. Which is why the Fallen can turn into a space fighter now.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:47, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I still propose nuking it, but until we get consensus on that, I'm putting the shenanigans tag on it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:54, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Call me crazy, but I have this feeling there may be an actual name for these dudes soon. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:08, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::And on what are you basing this? I keep asking this, but you keep making up unofficial terms for things.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:15, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::The ROTF adaptation comic. I understand we aren't supposed to use that yet for spoiler reasons. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:22, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Okay, let me spell this out. There is at present no definition of this term you've invented that does not completely overlap with the Thirteen. Every member of the Thirteen is one of these, and every one of these is one of the Thirteen. Even if we accept that this is somehow a meaningful term, there is no way to separate it from the Thirteen. To pretend otherwise is to be painfully obtuse.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Nuke it from orbit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:18, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:Y'all kinda seem to be jumping down Starfield's throat... IITC the Transdimensional beings page was created as a sorta precautionary things back then Alliance was still coming out when we weren't sure how it'd play out-- or even if the Fallen was a multiversal singularity. (We thought probably yes, but there was room foe debate, and the movie stuff IS '''awfully''' messy.)
:...of course it's just as likely that I'm missing something, in which case, please proceed tearing him a new transdimensional arsehole. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'd like a transdimensional arsehole. I bet it would mean you wouldn't even have to get up to go to the bathroom. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'm not taking it personally. It always was kind of a sloppy placeholder. I honestly thought they were going a different direction when I read Defiance 4, but now it looks like it is shaping up pretty good continuity wise. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:41, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's all well and good, but the article, as well as his defense of the term, continued long after its (however dubious) usefulness expired. So, I've nuked the article and archived the discussion here for posterity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:36, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh, is ''that'' what's going on? ''<tt>slowpoke.jpg</tt>''
::::Well, I've certainly been there myself! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:38, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

== Prima ==

Why is Prima on this list? I would have thought Primon would be the more likely choice m'self. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:01, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:He is confirmed in at least one continuity as the first Cybertronian. Thus, he's the first of the Thirteen. Funny, innit?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:03, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Which continuity, and sauce? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:45, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Marvel G1. Not explicitly stated, but able to be deduced.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::::But I don't think Prima should be on there. Primon seem to predate him/her.
::::If a guidebook SAID Prima was one of the 13 or something, that'd be different. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:22, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Well here's how it goes, we have a Marvel G1 issue and a Marvel G2 issue which depict the first Cybertronian. One of those issues depicts said first Cybertronian as the first Matrix-Bearer. Marvel G1 also has a litany of the Matrix-Bearers which the Creation Matrix itself recites at several times during Matrix Quest, thus establishing this figure, though visually quite different the two times we see him, as Prima. So, insofar as anything can be consistent within Marvel G1 given the vast artistic differences which sprang up, the first Cybertronian and first Matrix-Bearer is Prima.

Pri''mon'' however has a far more fuzzy pedigree, a smaller corpus of source material establishing him, and his membership in the Thirteen is also predicated upon the Liege Maximo being a member, which is ''probable'', but as we've discussed before never really confirmed in official source material.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:Your answer is full of fail and conjecture.
:Nevertheless, it got ''me'' to check the source material. The Ultimate Guide explicitly says Prima is one of the 13 on page 15. Further, Prima is their '''leader'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:40, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Were I not at work, I could have done the same. But alas, I am limited until I hop in my car and drive home. I still say my answer is close enough for government work, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:43, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
{{quote|In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.|Tocqueville}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
=="New Divide" video==
Hey, uh, there seems to be a very short clip of what appear to be silhouettes of some of the Thirteen... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:36, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:Which one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:51, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
::I wonder which one Vector Prime is! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:::So can any of our U.K. friends confirm or deny if these are indeed the Thirteen? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:13, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Weeellll... okay, spoilers to be safe... they ARE the Primes, the original Transformers, as it were. But... if I heard the dialogue right, and I'm not SWEARING that I did, but I have seen other people say they heard the same thing... IN the film itself... there are stated to only SEVEN of them. And the events of Defiance are really... at odds with the movie , too. In the gentlest terms. Honestly, I was watching the movie, and every so often something happened to make me go "Aw, fuck, the wiki's going to have its work cut out for it here." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, there's a mistake in there. Seven is definitely the number. The Fallen being so named because he chose to eradicate life in his quest for Energon (think Captain Ranson in Star Trek Voyager "Equinox"). Optimus Prime is apparently their last descendant (how they know this is not explained, nor is the concept of Primes, and why only a Prime can defeat the Fallen, when it looks like anybody can do what Prime finally did). Oh, and none of them look like any of our Primes. In fact they all look like the Fallen (customisers should be buying multiple Fallen toys to make them!) [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 20:05, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

:What a pain. Yet I think that will probably make patching things around the 13 easier.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:11, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::The only thing that would make this work with past information is if the Thirteen aren't multiversal singularities, and since the Powers That Be reconfirmed that at Botcon, I can only assume (or hope) that they have something planned for the Thirteen that will straighten this out. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:21, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::You have to remember, there's already the "oddity" that the birth of these guys 13 doesn't really match other depictions-- and the AllSpark being some sort of sun-destroying monstrosity is... not very Primus-y. I think there's definitely wiggle room here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:25, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oddly, the adaptations say 13. How do we know what we know about the AllSpark and harvesters and the original Transformers? There is only one of them left. He wouldn't lie for his own purposes would he? They could, if they wanted, make much of the ROTF backstory be a load of bullcrap made up by The Fallen. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:46, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Maybe we can wilfully ignore {{redact|the seven thing as a mistake like Brawl/Devastator? In the Feb 2009 issue of Toyfare, producer [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] stated that The Fallen was a member of The Thirteen, and that we should think of the Thirteen as "apostles". So clearly, the movie production did number the Primes as thirteen quite late into post production.}} --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::"Mistakes" do happen in fiction, and we acknowledge them as such. (The art errors in the marvel comic, for example.)
::::::So even if the {{redact|the ancient Primes being the 13}} is a mistake, that still leaves us with The Fallen being The Fallen.
::::::The real question is how ''subsequent'' fiction addresses this. If it keeps re-iterating {{redact|the ancient Primes are the 13}} then that's a problem we have to deal with.
::::::I'm really beginning to suspect that the end scenario is going to be {{redact|there were some ancient beings, 7 in one story, 13 in another}} and just void any connection to the 13 entirely-- then figure out how to deal with The Fallen being The Fallen separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Also, re:{{redact|Devastator... there was a comment on the Brawl talk page recently claiming that the letters page to Titan #3 said that Devastator and Brawl are separate near-identical Transformers.}} Can McSweeny confirm whether this is true or not? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

So I'm watching [http://emopanda.com/tmp/eps/Linkin_Park_-_New_Divide.mp4 New Divide] and I'm confused... is the screencap Walky posted above {{redact|from the beginning of the movie, where everyone was working in the valley, or the end, during SAM's NDE}}? Can someone who's seen the movie answer this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:20, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Haha, this is where it gets {{redact|metaphysical. Sam dies, and the Matrix (which at this point in the film has disintegrated into dust and is kept in a rolled up sock) merges with Sam. The next scene then features Sam in Heaven/The Matrix/Nirvana/The Tunnel with the Light at the End where he meets the Seven Prime/Fallen Clones. They tell him that they have been watching him and that the Matrix is not an object but a state of mind/personality quality, and he's got it, so go wake up from this death and kick some ass. He then is resurrected and the Matrix is now completely reformed into its key/boomerang formation, which he then sticks into Prime's chest. But then somebody else steals it again to stick into the Fallen's Galvatron Machine from the UK comics}} [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 08:04, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Yes I know this. I've read the book. I construe from your response that this screencap is from the latter half of the movie? (It's a yes or no question... god forbid you manage to ''explicitly'' answer it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's a yes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:52, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

It actually works out pretty easily. Those seven don't have to be the ''only'' members of the Thirteen, just the ones that gave their lives to seal The Fallen away and secure the Star Harvester.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Except there are multiple versions of "Movie" continuity (IDW and Titan) and the original 13 are singularities... so how do these 7 manged to die '''twice''' and their corpses show up in different universes? {{redact|for that matter, how does The Fallen manage to die in multiple continuities? He has but one life to give for the Multiverse!}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:24, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Transformers: The Movie Universe implies that The Fallen has to work to maintain corporeality in a universe. It is possible that killing the physical form of one of the Thirteen is nowhere near as final as it may sound.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:::Would Vector Prime's fate at the end of Cybertron support that? I have only passing knowledge of that show but didn't they show him fighting on in some other dimension after his "Death"? That could work on the same principle.--[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 07:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Vector Prime was shown to be fighting Galvatron in the end-credits montage, so he's clearly not completely dead. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:36, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I don't know about Galaxy Force, but in Cybertron, the speech that Vector Prime gave before he died made it sound like if he died in that universe, he would continue to exist in the multiverse but be barred from re-entering that particular universe.

== Logos Prime ==

If the Fallen represents Entropy, and Vector Prime represents time... what would Logos Prime represent? His hub-ship-thing seems to be tied to his "area of responsibility" somehow... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:55, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Opposition or competition? Some kind of "Balancing forces" deal, probably, judging by the story.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::So... "Logos" arguably, logic? 10:39, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think their given names actually have anything to do with their charge - Vector isn't in charge of directions, and Nexus is in charge of Energon, not connections. Maybe the name's are personally chosen, or represent their personalities?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 12:27, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Maybe LP would have been the gaurdian of knowlegde or information? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:03, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

== Twelve Apostles ==

Would it be at all acceptable to mention somewhere on the page the obvious basis of Jesus and the twelve apostles, or even how specific members of the Thirteen seem to be based on specific apostles?

For example:
*Prima is the chosen leader of the thirteen, carries Primus lifeforce in the form of the matrix (and so, is Primus's "child"), and his name even fits the ancient roman naming scheme for your children (well, daughters) - remove "us", fit "a".
*The Fallen is obviously Judas.
*Vector Prime appears to fit the role of Peter - the most loyal, who serves throughout time safeguarding the Transformers. He certainly acts like a space-pope, anyway.

Of course, beyond that, there's unlikely to be any use of the archetype, but would it at least be worth mentioning?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:We have a good source for that comparison with [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]]'s interview in ''Toyfare'' (February 2009). [[Special:Contributions/79.67.234.198|79.67.234.198]] 05:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:I say we don't have enought info though. Afterall, we don't know about the Logo Prime or Nexus Maximus people. --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 14:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::We know that the group as a whole is supposed to act as apostles to Primus. And yes, we can't really fit Logos or Nexus to a historical apostle, but we're extremely unlikely to, because beyond Jesus, Judas, and Peter, the various apostles are only really remembered for Catholic feast holidays, and aren't that culturally significant.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 14:22, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh,yeah...except for 'doubting Thomas'. OK --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
: I think pointing out the 12 disciples exclusively is kind of the wrong move to make at the outset. Group-of-13-and-one-betrays-them is a mythological constant. Like, say, Loki! He storms a group of 12 at Valhalla! It's linked into the superstition about the number 13, which is considered unlucky. Stories would use it for group numbers as foreshadowing! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::Except "Group of thirteen Apostles and one of them is a chosen son of the singular God" is not so much a mythological constant. Unless Zoroastrianism has it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:39, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

==Split 7 Primes from the 13==

There's really nothing to suggest in the film that the 7 are part of the original Transformers. They're just referred to as the leaders of the race. The Fallen's the only one clearly linked to the 13 [[User: Eire|Eire]] 23.58 June 23 09
: Maybe the missing 6 Primes are Vector Prime, Logos Prime, Nexus Prime, the Liege Maximo, Primon, and Some Other Dude, all having adventures elsewhere! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:46, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
::but how? the comic states that The Fallen killed them all so how can they be having adventures in other universes if they're truly omniversial or what ever the f**k they're supposed to be. Anyway I think the idea behind the 13 is crap anyway. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 04:03, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: It's been stated since the Dreamwave era that the original 13, save the Fallen, all died in an early battle with Unicron. And yet Vector Prime! (Who died but didn't.) And Logos Prime! And Nexus Maximus! Tales of these guys' deaths have been greatly exaggerated. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I found what the film states to be ambigious. It didn't say "there were 7 Primes, and that's all that ever existed." --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:14, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: Jetfire said there were 7 Primes leading, and one went bad. I'm not saying that they're the only ones because clearly they weren't (Sentinel and Optimus get a mention after all) but conceptually there seems to be a difference between the 13 originals and just 7 powerful Primes. Apart from the Fallen, it just seems to be a concept loosely connected at best [[User:Eire]] 12.40 June 24th 09

I think we'd be best served, at least, creating a "see main article" for the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and discussing the characters there. Not necessarily splitting it, and certainly merging it back in if any ancillary material clarifies the matter, but we're probably not helping any newbies who have just seen the film and want to read about these characters (if you could go so far as to call these non-entities that), only to wind up deeply confused over why we're insisting there are 13 of them and that they didn't turn in a tomb and such. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

== So They're not all Primes! ==

According to the Hasbro Q&A they are not all Primes, only 7 are. How do we reconsile that with the opening quote. I mean I get it's a retcon but how do we explain it in a sensible ay on this page? Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:35, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:Where were all 13 called "Primes"? Also, from the answer, it seems Hasbro is calling them "The 13". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:40, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

<blockquote style="background:white; padding:1em; border:1px solid #999;">
{{quote|We are the 13, the first, the forgotten, each of us serving a function vital to the survival of the universe. '''Each of us designated a ''Prime''''' and given a function to serve during the long march of infinity.|Vector Prime|"[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]"}}
</blockquote>

::Read the opening quote on this page, Starfield. Actual story material > Q&A answers, in my view. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

::::I vote for "Actual story material > Q&A answers", too. Sometimes I just think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers. By the way, there are only four confirmed members of the The Thirteen, and I don't consider Seven Prime equal The Thirteen despite what Hasbro say, since their origins are quite and obvious different. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:10, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::"Sometimes I think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers"? You do realize that [[Forest Lee]] is both the writer of that Vector Prime: In the Beginning quote and the guy who answers the fiction-related answers for the Q&As? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:03, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yes, I know. Well, I admit I wrote the above too soon (due to the rush of breakfast) and a bit emotional. Of course I didn't mean all of them(the answers, not the answerer), just some of the answers make me have such feeling like this. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:29, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::I don't know. Our criteria for what is canon is "anything that Hasbro approves" since they are the ultimate authority for cannonicity if they come right out and say (As they now have) only 7 of "The Thirteen" were Primes the other 6 were not than that retcon would be the new cannon I think. Especially since it "kinda" patches an existing continuity glitch. Now I admit that claim will be stronger when Hasbro actually releases some story covering this period as they just said they will be doing shortly somehow. But even without that it is a retcon and official I'd say. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:52, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::Hey! I completely missed the quote. I was looking for a citation somewhere. I agree that story > answers. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:07, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Offhand, I'd say that the notion of the "Seven Primes" as opposed to the Thirteen showed up waaaaaaaaay late in the final drafts of Revenge of the Fallen, and thus too late for the adaptations to incorporate it. After all, they even were working up CGI models for all of the Thirteen. It is entirely possible that this change blindsided even Hasbro, and thus they're trying to spackle it up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

I really kinda disagree with reverting the article to the pre-Hasbro-retcon state, as I think it's puting too little weight on Hasbros statement of what is the "truth". But I'm willing to let it go for now, since Hasbro seems to have plans to bring this all to the fore with some sort of fictional spotlight in the near future, we can deal with making the necessary changes when and if that material materializes. :) --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 22:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

== Female 13 member ==
OK. As of a day or two ago, Hasbro says that one of the 13 is female. Boards are already complaining that this messes with established continuity (IDW, Marvel comics). I'm not convinced this is a huge problem, but it does occur to me that, at the moment, there is no canon to support this claim. Only Hasbro's Q&A response, which might be argued as [[authorial intent]] or [[pseudocanon]]. As something not yet confirmed in canon (but only signaled as possible for the future), should it be included here at this time?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 14:52, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

== "Original Epic Warriors"? ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63609] --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 26 November 2009 (EST)

==A Math Joke?==
I've been studying for the GRE, so excuse my nerdiness as a result of quantitative overload: if we go with the Hasbro Q&A response, there are 7 Primes out of 13 original transformers... there are six prime numbers in the set of thirteen positive integers: '''2, 3, 5, 7, 11,''' and '''13''' itself. In addition, a prime number can only be divided by itself or '''1''', making a total of seven mathematical prime-related numbers. It might be assuming too much of Hasbro to consider this a deliberate gag for the nerdiest fans, but if it's a just a coincidence, it's a strange one... should this be noted in the article? [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)
:Exploring that more; [[Prima]] is the '''first''' transformer (and despite bearing the Matrix, is not ''named'' "Prime", but might ''be'' one?), [[Nexus Prime|Nexus Prime]] is made of '''five''' parts, and we also know of [[Logos Prime|Logos Prime]] and [[Vector Prime]], and [[the Fallen]] was a Prime before he... fell. Have any number-related concepts been tied to those last three? I want to assume the Fallen was the '''thirteenth''' of the originals, being furthest from his creator's original design as the last of the batch, and due to the negative connotations of the number; and a ''vector'' can be defined as the course or direction of movement between '''two''' points. [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)

== Exodus Info ==

'''SPOILERS for TF Exodus'''

So Exodus gives us two or three new names for members of the Thirteen.

First there's Megatronus. This is very strongly implied to be the Fallen's original name. But it is still just implied from what I could see. They never come right out and talk about the 13 backstory at length and say the Fallen is Megatronus it just sorta makes the most sense for him to be, given what they do say, if you know the story. So how official do we want to treat that connection?

Second there's Alpha Trion. There's been a lot of chatter that certain stories (especially his evil SG counterpart) breaks the whole "Multiversal Singularity" thing if he's a 13er which he now is. Do we need a note to that effect.?

Lastly is the most questionable case. After talking about Megatronus as a legend at one point a character then mentions Leige Maximo in the next breath as the same type of legendary figure. This could be read as placing him as a 13er as well, but it's never explicately stated clearly. Does it deserve a note, at least in the potential area?

Thoughts?
--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:51, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:Megatronus? I can just imagine the millions of potential joke opportunities that this name comes with.
:Sorry. Anyway, we should have a note next to the Fallen's listing in the confirmed 13ers category saying "Look, his name may or may not be Megatronus." or something to that effect.
:A3 is a huge continuity headache, and we should probably be careful. So, yes, we should definitely have a note.
:And finally, the Liege Maximo isn't ''that'' questionable, but we should keep him in the "possible 13ers" category until other fiction appears and confirms or disproves that.

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:23, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

:(Purely personal speculation) I think Megatronus might be Liege Maximo's original name. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:08, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::As I'm not very familiar with most of the fictions, is there any reason "the Fallen" and "Liege Maximo" couldn't be the same guy? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:13, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::One of them is not on fire and doesn't exactly seem to serve Unicron? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:16, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Has LM ever been in the same story as Unicron? The fire thing seems very minor. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:25, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::LM does sort of resemble an overweight ROTF The Fallen. A little bit. If Megatronus were Liege Maximo, "Megatronus" would be his name, not his "original" name, since "Liege Maximo" is a title. To answer your question, Unicron was quite dead when we first meet Liege Maximo, and there isn't really room in the story for them to have met off-panel in the past. The Fallen and Liege Maximo aren't remotely the same character, but I suppose that could always be retconned. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:01, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Fallen - name forgotten, created alongside first Primes, founder of Decepticons, purged of morality
::::::Liege Maximo - name unknown, created alongside first Prime, ancestor of Decepticons, ultimate evil
::::::Sounds more than remotely similar to me. But I'm not saying it's true, just an idea that bounced around in my head. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:20, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Also no room in ~13.7 billion years for them to have met off panel? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:39, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::Megatronus Prime is '''NOT''' the Liege Maximo. We know that for sure as they're named one after the other as seperate beings at one point. And we know for SURE that Megatronus is one of the 13. The info the book gives makes suuggestions that make it VERY, VERY likely he is the Fallen, they just don't say it out bluntly. So Megatronus should get a "confirmed" entry even if we're not going to make the (certainly intended) leep and connect the two. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:43, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::That's the thing with myths and legends, one being can become split into multiple characters or multiple characters get merged into one with retellings. Just because there are separate legends Megatronus and Liege Maximo doesn't mean that further developments won't reveal them to be the same being. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:49, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::That's irrelevant. Unless there's "anything" to suggest it at all in the Canon, it's just "making stuff up" and has no place on this wiki, which is what we're discussing. There's nothing in the book that in any way even hints of hinting that MP might be the LM, where there are lots of clearly very intentional details linking him to The Fallen.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:00, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Oh, I thought you were responding to TX55's clearly labeled "purely personal speculation". I had no intention of anything I said being put in the article. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:04, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

== Toy Section ==

Should it stay or go? If it stays do we list EVERY toy of EVERY one of the Original 13? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:10, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:I'm for just excising it entirely. It's not exactly a toy gimmick like other subgroups are, and anybody who's interested in the toys can just scoot over to the characters' pages. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:50, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::That's what I was thinking, I just wanted to bring it up before slashing it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

==Alpha Trion==
I'd also note that we need to add Alpha Trion to the confirmed members. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:24, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:Doesn't that mean that we need to combine all the [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]] articles? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:30, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::I don't know. It kind of makes my brain hurt. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:35, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::The thing about Alpha Trion is, he really is the same basic character in every universe. "Wise Ancient Autobot closely connected to Vector Sigma and/or records of Cybertronian history". Except for that one where he's a murdering looney. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:41, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::The murdering looney is just the inversion of his resurrecting Prime and Elita (and maybe Magnus). Healer and killer are moral opposites. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:47, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::If the Thirteen travel between the various universes, I ''suppose'' it's possible that the weight of knowing everything that was or will be, in ''each and every universe'' eventually pushes Trion over the edge.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:49, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Didn't somebody say that the universe they were in could affect a singularity? I just figured this was an example of that. AT in the negative polarity universe exhibits inverted morality. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:54, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::SG Alpha Trion was the same in the TransTech universe. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Yeah, he was batslag and scheming during his time in Axiom Nexus, just better at hiding it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::I'm sure there's enough wiffle-waffle in Forest Lee's bullshit-fu answer to the multiversal singularity question to cover it. Maybe this is just one iteration of Trion when he is a "quantum event", playing out the potential question of "What if dude was evil?" until it eventually collapses and reverts. Or something. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:58, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Actually, to throw another kink into things, Animated Alpha Trion is not a historian, has no connection to any Vector Sigma, and indeed Wyatt, at least, says Animated has no multiversal singularity anything in it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Authorial intent can be overruled by the iron fist of Hasbro. If Hasbro says Alpha Trion is always a historian with a connection to Vector Sigma who exists in all universes, then Wyatt be slagged, that's what he is. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|22:53, 27 June 2010}}
::::::Sorry, but for me authorial intent can only be overruled by later canon fiction in the exact same continuity, not by a completely different continuity written by someone with no connection to the other one. Especially since changing Alpha Trion's role or adding in Vector Sigma where it doesn't exist would be changing actual ''canon'' as well, not just authorial intent.
::::::(Plus, if Hasbro actually wanted to wield its iron fist, they would have enforced the singularities being written into Animated in the first place.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Thing is, Animated continuity by itself (completely ignoring the words of Wyatt and Isenberg) doesn't create any mutual exclusivities because it didn't take a side either way. Hasbro didn't put down it's iron fist because they didn't need to yet.[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 00:53, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Except that if Hasbro wanted the singularities in Animated, then Isenberg and Wyatt would not be saying those things at all to begin with, since they wouldn't be the case. (Or they'd at the very least be saying "We didn't want to, but Hasbro made us" or something.) Plus, the Allspark and no Vector Sigma contradict Primus and the VS Gestalt, at least.
::::::::(I've never ever understood why the wiki is 95% sticklers for canon, except for this one case, where suddenly fanwank speculation and authorial intent (from authors who aren't even involved with the continuities in question, to boot) suddenly reigns supreme, sometimes even over actual canon.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Seriously? You're saying that Hasbro's official call on the matter ''isn't'' canon? You're not making sense here. A3 being one of the 13 is not fanwank speculation, and it looks like to me you're misunderstanding the definition of authorial intent. Wyatt and Isenberg's opinion doesn't matter because it didn't make it into the actual fiction, and it wasn't going to, because it undermines the multiversal (with singularities) framework that Hasbro is finally getting to brass tacks on. And let's face it, backpedaling at the point they are at right now isn't a good idea by any stretch of the standard. Hasbro never commented on Wyatt/Isenberg's idea because it wasn't an issue yet, more of a "well, we'll let them think so for the time being, until the fiction actually gets to that point".[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 02:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Derrick Wyatt also said, on several occasions, that as far as he is concerned there are no Primus and Unicron in the Animated universe. And I'm afraid his opinion doesn't count there, since the multiversal god conceit predates his work and is much bigger than it. As I end up pointing out here semi-regularly, authors have gotten stuff wrong before and we just mark it down as a trivia note. --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.134.205|74.73.134.205]] 14:39, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::So, a tiny mention of an idea in a completely different and unrelated continuity that's already been explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities, somehow counts more than actual canon fiction AND the word from someone who directly worked on a continuity and knows for a fact what the writers actually intended for it. Especially seeing as how even Furman, who ''invented'' Primus and Unicron, was explicitly going to write them out of IDW as well.
::::::::::::...OK, man, if believing something that illogical makes you happy, more power to you, I guess. Me, I don't presume to think I know better than the creators themselves when it comes to what is and isn't in their work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Animated A3 behaves no differently from every other version we've ever seen. They're all eccentric but basically normal-seeming old dudes who have hints of great influence and age. Been that way ever since KtVS. ''Exodus'' comes out and says that this normal-seeming-eccentric-old-dude does indeed have great age and great influence. What is the difference now? They're just firmly putting boundaries on all the hints we've gotten for 25 years. From a story perspective there is nothing wrong with it at all; is the only problem really that the writer of this particular series said otherwise?
:::::::::::::Hasbro is the biggest of the creators, bigger than any individual writer, so if you're going to cite this or that intention / Word Of God, it's just going to be a self-defeating exercise. "A tiny mention" in any story at all is a heck of a lot more than we ever got of "no Unicron in Animated / IDW", since none of that was ever officially published at all. And what was "explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities"? The original 13 must, by definition, apply everywhere. The multiverse conceit has been solidly established since 2003 and all those stories were vetted by Hasbro; some were even written by Hasbro (as has been mentioned here already). Neither Wyatt nor Furman nor anybody else can "intend" their way out of it. Larry DiTillio "intended" for the Vok to have created sparks and for Transformers' after-death dimension to be the Vok's Nexus Zero. This, too, is now flatly impossible noncanon, as too many rigid rules explicitly contradicting it have been published for too many years. This is what happens when your franchise sets down explicit omnipresent rules for a multiversal origin: they are, by definition, bigger than everything else. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:45, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I've already covered this. What one continuity does has nothing to do with what any other continuity does. FunPub is its own continuity. Exodus is apparently the new WFC/Prime continuity. In no other case do we ever declare what happened in one continuity has overwritten another continuity's canon, or let one continuity's author's intent overwrite another continuity's author's intent, so I don't know why this is different. (And, FunPub is no more "Hasbro" writing fiction than IDW is Hasbro writing fiction, the movie team is Hasbro writing fiction, the cartoon teams are Hasbro writing fiction, etc. They're all contracted to write fiction on behalf of Hasbro.)
::::::::::::::Sinclair explicitly stated that the Movieverse is outside of the multiverse established in FunPub fiction. Hasbro's approved a lot more continuities contradicting the idea than they have ones that do. And we've never heard word from Hasbro yet on the matter, so there's no reason yet to discount the authorial intent of the actual creators because there's no official word or canon yet to contradict them.
::::::::::::::So, no, the whole multiversal singularity idea has not been "solidly established" at all. Exactly the contrary, in fact. Maybe at some point we'll actually get official confirmation from someone at Hasbro who works with more than one continuity, or some actual fiction that explicitly takes place in each continuity that writes the matter in, and then I'll say "OK" because then there'll be actual support for the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::FunPub stories written by Forest Lee are absolutely more "Hasbro writing the fiction" than IDW, the movies, or the cartoons. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:42, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Well, you know. Except for the whole fact that FunPub stories have been stated to not apply to every universe, and Forest Lee (AFAIK) has zero to do with writing the other continuities, and it's wiki policy to consider as everything equally canon.
::::::::::::::::Especially when we're talking stories that take place in a venue that hardly anybody reads vs. more mainstream venues. I fail to see how you can even think Lee's fiction is supposed to have these big, sweeping changes to the brand when only a tiny handful of people have even heard about/read it, and probably almost none of Hasbro's target demographic. How can something that barely anyone knows about be as important as you claim?
::::::::::::::::Maybe the current fiction ''will'' actually finally firmly establish the singularity as applying to every continuity in venues where everyone can actually see it. But until that time... I love FunPub's continuity, but the fact is that it's just one continuity out of many, and it's one almost nobody reads to boot. Treating it as more important than everything else just because the wiki's (understandably) biased towards it is ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Look, you can't say "Hasbro never said this", and then when shown they did, retort with a "well, then it doesn't matter." I have no idea what Pete Sinclair thinks he is saying, as it was pointed out to him in that same Allspark thread that the Movie storyline has a multiversal stream assignment, and he's all like "yeah, but it's not in the multiverse". Once again that is a case of individual authors not being able to "break" foundational facts that have a broader scope than their own stories--and they sure can't ''THINK'' their way into breaking them without ever even bothering to put it to pen and expect it to have any validity outside their own greymatter. Come on, if you're going to dismiss FP's story material because it's so obscure and little-known, that explicitly discredits all author intent ever, which is orders of magnitude more obscure and unknown and was never even official in the first place. A Hasbro comic book with any circulation sure outranks some guy's Twitter following. The very idea of "stating certain stories not to apply" is rampant author-intentism--in this case favoring the intent of Sinclair over Lee ''in the exact same continuity and medium''. I will never view it as a valid argument. You are right to point out that this wiki treats all publications as canon. Animated A3 not-being one of the 13 was never published and is not canon. Ditto for the oxymoronic notion that the movie universe--or ANY universe--would not be part of the multiverse. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:35, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::I can say that "Hasbro has never said this" because they haven't. Meanwhile, Sinclair, who's one of FunPub's '''managing editors''' (not "just" a writer) and thus knows what FunPub fiction does and doesn't cover and affect, has said something. Yes, I'm favoring Sinclair over Lee in the same medium, the same way that what Andy Schmidt or Tipton says goes over any individual IDW writer.
:::::::::::::::::::As for authorial intent, we add it on as Trivia notes whenever it doesn't contradict actual canon. The funny thing is, the idea of the Movies and Animated being in the multiverse is equally as much authorial intent. And since it's from an author who doesn't even write or have anything to do with the Movie or Animated fiction, that means it carries even less weight than the usual authorial intent. And seeing as how Movie fiction outright contradicted IN CANON the idea of the 13 being the same as every other universe...
:::::::::::::::::::As for anything in FunPub continuity meaning anything outside of FunPub continuity itself, see Jackpot's 100% correct note below which sums up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Nobody outside of the hardcore fans even knows about FunPub's continuity, let alone considers it anywhere near enough important to overwrite the main continuities, and that includes FunPub's own editor and the people writing the main continuities. It's only oxymoronic if you give the FunPub continuity an importance it never had in the first place, and if you don't realize that what was retconned once (if you accept the multiversal retcon) can very very easily be retconned again.
:::::::::::::::::::And there is no "Hasbro's comic books". There's IDW's comic books and FunPub's comic books. In fact, to be perfectly technical, FunPub explicitly '''does not''' have a comic book license from Hasbro! They're only allowed to produce a magazine and the BotCon convention comics. So really, claiming they're "Hasbro's comic books" is doubly wrong. IDW is--by '''license'''--Hasbro's comic book company, not FunPub. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::To be fair, I'd like to say something in defense of Thy's side of the debate: We're all trying to free our arguments from the taint of authorial intent, and I think that's part-and-parcel with a Platonic ideal of continuity that underlies our whole endeavor here. This is the notion that, stripped of all real-world references, there's a pure-fiction world where we can treat all of these stories as "real" events in a multiverse as internally consistent as actual reality. We all know this is an impossible vision, but it's there under the surface nonetheless (consider how our default writing style is to present the fiction as primary fact and relegate the real-world facts to "Trivia"). Hand-in-hand with that ideal is the discounting of any given story's real-world influence and fame. Ideally, we don't play favorites; in fact, elevating the obscure is a point of pride. And from this stripped-down, egalitarian view, what do we see? One universe is acknowledging the multiverse and making grand statements about it, while most of the rest stay basically agnostic. From an entirely in-fiction perspective, how do we deal with that, especially when those grand statements sometimes seem at odds with how other universes present themselves? Our current consensus (and I think Thy's answer, even if he hasn't approached it from exactly this direction) is to play along, to accept in-universe multiversal claims as-is, even if that means allowing other universes to get pushed around. I can understand this view; there's an appealing simplicity to it. But I'm more inclined towards Jeysie's view, which is that we should document the FunPub multiversal claims but not let them dictate our entire presentation. The result would be a little paradoxical on the surface, since the same article might have to talk about a character as both a singularity and as having multiple incarnations. But I think it can be done, and it's more true to our everything-is-canon maxim. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:21, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::Again, I think you summed up some of my own thoughts well. I'm not trying to ''discount'' the FunPub fiction; it's ''equally as'' valid a continuity as any other. I just disagree with us treating it as ''more'' canon than every other continuity, to the point where not only is FunPub fiction retconning canon in other continuities accepted, but we don't accept the notion of newer fiction in turn retconning the older FunPub fiction.
:::::::::::::::::::::Basically, there is a multiverse in FunPub's storylines, but there may or may not be a multiverse in any other storylines. So long as you accept the storylines as all being separate from a real-world perspective, this isn't really that hard to wrap one's mind around. What the writer for one universe chooses to include in their work has no bearing on what the writer for a separate universe chooses to include in ''their'' work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:50, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::Pretty much. I developed my own view of continuity in the old days of ATT, when Raksha and Skyflight were doing their level best to drive wedges between G1 and the hated BW. I think it was in the "Star Drive"/"Nemesis" debate that it occurred to me that the best way to look at continuity between series is as moving ever forward, never backward. From the perspective of the G1 'toon, the Decepticon ship actually has no name, though "Star Drive" is a valid possibility. And now that that series is over, nothing can ever settle the question; the absence of evidence is in fact its canon. Of course, the BW 'toon adapted bits of the G1 'toon into its own backstory and gave the 'Con ship a name, which is perfectly canon for that enlarged perspective. Likewise, BW established a kind of afterlife called "the other side of the Matrix", and then BM clarified it as the "Allspark" with its own properties. From the perspective of BW, the Allspark isn't actually canon, but from the perspective of BM-plus-BW-as-its-backstory, it is. And so on. When we get to FunPub, we find a continuity that actually incorporates ''every other continuity'' into its cosmology and makes declarations about them. Which is all fine and good, and those declarations are canon from the FunPub-plus-everything-else perspective... but look at any of those everything-elses from their own perspectives, and the retcons are no longer canon.
::::::::::::::::::::::I've seen that view expressed in debates here before, but seldom. I think there's a philosophical divide among editors here, and the current dominant side believes that the perspective of the Wiki should be from the top of the retcon chain, which determines our presentation of everything else. I take a more bottom-up approach; in fact, the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]] article is an excellent demonstration of how I prefer things. I'd much rather see how an idea has evolved from series to series than see everything made to conform to the latest evolution.
::::::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 14:28, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::::What about the "Star Drive"? Was that a name pulled from the dialog? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, in "[[Microbots]]", when Scavenger is scanning the ground for traces of the ship, he says something about locating the "star drive." In all likelihood this meant the ship's engine, but one day the late ATT gadfly Skyflight announced that he had decided it was the true name of the ship, contrary to BW's claims. The usual chaos ensued. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:12, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, I think my approach can be classified as the "bottom-up" approach as well. I prefer to just state canon as much as-is as possible (with the occasional authorial note where it clarifies canon without contradicting it), and let the reader make up their mind for themselves how to fit it all together. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Where/when have the FP stories been stated to not apply to every universe? Just out of curiosity. I hadn't heard this before.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:51, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Sinclair mentioned on the Allspark that [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=64273&view=findpost&p=1388259 "Movie continuity is outside the multiverse."]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:58, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::That's.... very interesting to know. I think it's a perfect illustration of Jeysie's point, too: While Forest Lee may be the closest thing we have to the Mouth of Sauron, in every practical way his voice has been a squeak. He's no George Lucas, and if his multiversal-singularity foundation has really been so solidly established since 2003, then why didn't Orci and Kurtzman conform to it? Why did Pete have to hand-wave their work away? Because until possibly - ''possibly'' - now, the people who actually MATTER at Hasbro haven't given two shits about this level of continuity. And pretending like we can apply a Lucas-level primacy to the FunPub work has been and probably always will be an endless source of headaches, since other creators will keep blithely making square pegs that we bend ourselves over backwards trying to fit into Forest's round hole. (Uh.... that wasn't supposed to sound so filthy.) (Okay, it wasn't at first, but then I admit I kind of ran with it.)
:::::::::::::::::::Anyway, as to the matter at hand, I'm in favor of patience. Also of doing our damnedest to separate what's actually in the fiction from what's been said elsewhere. As others have mentioned, it's possible that the Exodus 13 aren't actually singularities, or maybe more than one being in the multiverse happens to be named "Alpha Trion"... Let's wait and see how the WFC/Exodus/Prime universe unfolds.
:::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:50, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Thank you... that more or less sums up how I feel in a nutshell, better than I have so far. I mean, I hate sounding like I'm running down FunPub or Lee because I like their stuff, but... up until now I just don't see it as being the driving force some folks seem to wish it is, when you actually look outside the circle of us hardcore fans. We keep giving Lee and FunPub an importance that, when it comes to how things have actually worked in a practical sense, they just do not have.
::::::::::::::::::::So, I'd rather wait to see which way Hasbro is gonna bounce... whether it's retconning the retcon and letting the continuities (seemingly) continue to do what they will or won't regards the matter, or changing to making a firm and noticeable statement in favor of the matter outside of a single obscure continuity. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::I consider actual fiction canon, then authorial intent from the people who actually wrote the fiction for things that don't contradict canon. And the fact that Trion is not a historian and there's no Vector Sigma IS canon for Animated. Like I said, if Hasbro actually cared about the matter they could very very easily have made Isenberg write something in somewhere and removed all doubt, or told the creators to stop making untrue statements.
::::::::::Plus, it's not the existence of the 13 that's the problem, it's the idea of the singularity nonsense that's the problem. So far Hasbro's ''never'' said a single thing about that. All the info has been about ''the 13'' and has been related to TF: Prime; I haven't heard anything about singularities, unless there's BotCon news that wasn't reported.
::::::::::(And "official call" makes no sense. If anything, the opposite: all we've gotten is from FunPub fiction/writers, and FunPub's editor flatly said that the Movieverse, at least, is separate from FunPub's take. Meanwhile, IDW, the Movies, and Animated all have canon and statements flatly going against the singularity, and Hasbro's current statements have been about TF: Prime, not TF as a whole. So I don't get why people claim Hasbro's pushing the singularity when I've never seen a statement from them about it and they keep approving fiction that contradicts it.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:36, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Here's the problem. Hasbro HAS said officially that all the 13 are Multiversal Singularities. And they HAVE said A3 is a 13er. That's canon. That's what the wiki needs to go by. Nothing personal, but it doesn't matter what you personnally think about Authoral Intent. How like canon you make it in your own mind/fanon. That is NOT canon. It can be interesting. It can be worth mentioning on the wiki. But it is NOT CANON until it appears officially approved by Hasbro somwhere. So going by what's official the pages really need to be merged. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 06:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::No, they have not said that. The only thing I've ever seen about multiversal singularities has, like I said, come from FunPub writers and fiction. And, like I said, it's been stated directly by FunPub that at least one continuity is separate from what FunPub does. Like I also said, everything Hasbro has said about the Thirteen has only mentioned a single continuity: Exodus/TF: Prime; they haven't said the Thirteen are singularities. And, like I also also said, it's not just authorial intent but actual canon in the fiction that has contradicted the singularity idea. Fiction that was approved by Hasbro, I might add.
:::::::::::::It's you folks claiming that Hasbro is supposedly pushing the singularity that are ignoring canon and what Hasbro actually has and hasn't said. Not only that, but you are actually also going by authorial intent. In fact, you're being worse about it than I am, since you're going by authorial intent of people who have nothing to do with writing the continuities in question!
:::::::::::::So, to the contrary, going by what's official there's no reason to merge at all. Trion is a Thirteener in some continuities, yes, but that's it.
::::::::::::: When Hasbro actually comes out and says that the Thirteen are singularities and we see some actual mainstream fiction saying so--and Hasbro made the effort to explain that Zeta Prime was "Sentinel Zeta Prime", so we ''know'' they'll speak up when they actually do have problems--then I'll concede the point. Until then, all canon, official evidence, and authorial intent from the actual continuity writers, that I've seen is to the contrary, which is why the wiki's stance bugs me so much. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 09:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Jeysie, you do realize that when we're saying "Hasbro", we're basically saying "Forest Lee", right? The guy who wrote both the FunPub coimcs and bios dealing with the singularity thing, and is also Hasbro's bio-writer. And who answered the Q&A question about singularities. Lee saying it is "Hasbro" saying it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:59, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::And again, FunPub's come out as saying their fiction doesn't apply to at least one universe. And 99.9% of the time we don't let toy bios override the actual fiction, so I'm not sure why this case is different.
:::::::::::::::To me "Hasbro saying it" equals someone like Archer, who deals with more than just a single company's continuity or toy blurbs that often don't match up with actual fiction anyway. The whole Sentinel/Zeta Prime thing, for instance, was (AFAIK, correct me if wrong) commented on by an overseeing Hasbro person, rather than by a writer who writes for a continuity entirely separate from WFC's. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Did Hasbro know that that was the author's intent? If they never specifically mentioned those ideas, Hasbro would not have known "to put their foot down". I don't know one way or the other, but that is an unspoken assumption in your argument that needs to be examined. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:07, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I find it hard to believe that they had no clue what someone like Isenberg was planning on doing with the fiction. Especially when they've been shown to be perfectly picky about any number of minor details in the fiction, so why would they fail to worry about major ones? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Contrary to what you think, Vector Sigma DOES exist in Animated continuity (even according to Wyatt!). Read A3's Animated page. It's there. If you're going to argue a point, at least research it first. - [[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 10:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Again, like I said, it's not the Thirteen specifically that's the problem, it's the singularity that's the problem. There's no issue with the Thirteen existing in a continuity (any more than any other character the writers want to have existing in a continuity), it's the idea that they're some singularity that has to exist always in the same way that's the sticking point.
:::::::::Vector Sigma can exist in Animated all he wants; that doesn't prove anything except that he exists and can travel between dimensions (which is true of plenty of characters who aren't Thirteen members or singularities, so that doesn't say much on its own). And heck, Animated Alpha Trion may even be part of the Animated Thirteen for all we know--he's just not a singularity as far as Animated is concerned. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:43, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::This is probably the one thing that confuses me about the Thirteen; are they singularities in the sense that Unicron is (there's only one, and they can travel between dimensions at will), or like how Primus is (there's only one, and they exist simultaneously at all times in every universe)? That writeup that Forest did is so quantumy that I can read it either way.

:::::::: IIRC, "A3 is one of the Thirteen" is originally a speculation (or, at least, not official) until the publication of ''Exodus''. Also, I think I agree with Jeysie's argument/point. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:48, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

Considering Lee wrote Reunification, as well as the bio for Nexus Prime and the tidbits about Alpha Trion helping split up Prima's sword? Yeah, I'd wager Lee has an explanation for this waiting in the wings. I can't imagine he wasn't already planning for this at that time.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:03, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:Yeah, absolutely. There is very obviously something ''big'' planned for the Thirteen, and has been for some time, but they're either taking their time very deliberately and building slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly, or they can't quite find the right venue for the story. I can't think of a ''worse'' way to do it than through IDW, so I was quite glad when I heard that idea had been scrapped after it became "more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing", but it seems like something that needs more exposure than just a fanclub comic, so... I'm talking like I'm on a message board, so I'll stop. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:09, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Considering this from a wiki standpoint, I'll just say that this takes us into ''tremendously'' fertile territory for bi-monthly Q&A submissions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:11, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::I guess the problem with merging is that we first have to find out if there one, even is an explanation, and two, what said explanation is. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Unless Alpha Trion is just like Vector Prime in some way, or an explanation like the ''ROTF'' Fallen, but I'll hate it if that becomes true. What I worry is that if we ask in Q&A, will they made a explanation in rush? Or should we find a way to ask the writer(s?) of ''Exodus''? --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:57, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::I see it the other way, merge the articles with a note that the explanation is unclear and fill in the explanation later. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 22:55, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::What Hasbro says, goes. Whatever anyone else says is a trivia note at best if it conflicts with Hasbro. I say we merge, since that's the official word, with a note explaining that the merger has a few weird issues and we don't have an official explanation yet.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:15, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::: My thing is, until we have some clear idea how it all fits together structure-wise, trying to merge everything is going to be one very long pile-on mess. Especially when we try to write up how to reconcile SG and Animated Alpha Trions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::: I vote for note vote until we get a clear explanation. However, if possible, I do consider using subpages if confirmed because there are a big divergence between all Alpha Trion. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 23:22, 27 June 2010 (EDT)



::::::::Tx? What does that mean? Anyway, I don't really see the issue. They get a write-up on what they did in each continuity under the correct header in "Fiction" and the section starts with a continuity note that says "This doesn't seem to fit with the nature of the character as dictated by Hasbro, but who knows the conflict may be explained away in the future." Boom. Where's the "complications"? Kinda how the Sunbow Toon is handled in the Unicron and Primus articles.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:26, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::: (COming in kinda late but...) I also vote on just waiting this out for a bit... It's not even that big of a deal if you ask me. Any author could just come along and make up an easy explanation to solve this problem. Even I can do it, watch: "Eons ago, A3 split himself from a singularity into a multitude of individuals to better understand non-singularity beings blah blah blah blah..." When you read mystery fiction, do you just flip out when something doesn't add up and confuses you? No, you keep on reading, and odds are by the end of the story, something comes up and makes you say "oh! It all makes sense now!" --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yeah. Considering we're usually patient, I don't see a problem with just waiting until we get a clear idea of things. We can always just stick a message box at the top saying that we think they all need a merge, but we're waiting on the matter.
::::::::::(Heck, for all we know, it'll end up being canon that, like you say, he's actually a ''split'' singularity that's deliberately many separate individuals who are all part of the same, uh, personality gestalt. In which case merging might not make sense after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:14, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::If we stick a very clear, unambiguous message that these should probably be merged at the top of the pages I would have no problem with waiting a reasonable time period before merging. It should not be hidden down at the bottom in the notes though, we need to be out in the open with this. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:21, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

So, what to do with [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? I suggest phrasing it like this: "'''Alpha Trion''' is one of the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]] and the Archivist who bears the [[Quill]] that writes the [[Covenant of Primus]]. He might be the same Alpha Trion as [[Alpha Trion (G1)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (RID)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|him]] and [[Alpha Trion (ROTF)|him]], though probably not [[Alpha Trion (SG)|him]]." [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:56, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Something like that. The idea in the note on the AT disambig. page was to use the Prime page for all the info on AT that we know is about the 13er Singularity, with obvious links to the others and info about the retcon. I just wanted to make sure folks were cool with the notes on the Disambig. page and the G1 Trion page before expanding the idea. As it's been a few days now with no one objecting I think the idea should be completed as at least a temporary solution, pending future info from Hasbro. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:02, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

==Another perspective on Multiuniversal Singularities==
Is it absolutely, 100% set in stone that every version of a character who's referenced as a Multiversal Singularity is definitely the same guy? How about Megatronus? Megatron used to go by that name. If we REALLY follow the idea that every character sharing a name with a Multiuniversal Singularity is the same guy, then every Megatron is also the Fallen. Assuming no one hear actually takes that position, then we have precedent where there are two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not. Once we have one example, it logically follows that there might be more.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:This makes perfect sense to me. Then again, pretty much every explanation people have come up with for, say, A3's status as an MS has made perfect sense to me, so..... --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:22, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::That actually is something that I've also considered. It ''would'' be a rather tidy "have your cake and eat it too" kind of explanation that undoes some of the thorniness of the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:29, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::It makes sense to me, too. I really like "two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not." --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:25, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::It sounds good to me. It wouldn't be the first time 2 characters with the same name existed in the same universe at once. Look at [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]. Hell, you could even argue that the non-MS character was (in-universe) named in honor of the MS. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:42, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Or, in SG Alpha Trion's case, he went crazy and started to believe that he's the MS A3. There's just so many issues that we can explain away with this. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:45, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

== The 13 as singularities concept obsolete? ==

My opinion is that, in all likelihood, the wiki is slavishly adhering to a concept (the 13 are mutiversal singularities) that isn't really going anywhere. As far as I know, it hasn't been followed up on since a [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70811&st=120&p=1585399&#entry1585399 fan-club story from around 2005] (the wiki still needs a specific citation). Yes, there was a Q&A answer, but that isn't exactly fiction. Dare I say that it is closer to [[authorial intent]] mixed with a little bit of humoring detail-obsessive fans? We are apparently in the near future getting treated to the definitive story of the original 13. I see no hints that they are going to be anything other than simply residents of the "Prime"-verse. If the 13 aren't singularities in "Prime", then I think the wiki should probably consider the concept obsolete and save a lot of headaches. If they are singularities in "Prime", I will eat my hat. This is just my 2¢. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:34, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:There might be something to this. I definitely think taking a 'wait-and-see' approach to Prime and the 13 is a good idea.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Maybe it's just taken them a while to figure out how to put things together. They have been rather busy with a multimillion dollar, multipart movie series. To me Prime seems like it is going to integrate and synthesize a lot of things and inform not just where the stories go from here, but also how the previous stories are understood. We need to exercise a little patience and see what Hasbro does next. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:40, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::We shall see, Galvatron, we shall see.....[/zarakquote]
:::Also, you're on. If the 13 are singularities in "Prime", I expect to see pics of you eating your hat. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It's certainly possible Hasbro will let the concept go at some point. But they have not yet. IF they do, then we change things, but until then we wait and go with the last official word on the subject: The 13 are singularities. Since Hasbro apparently has big plans for them soon we have a good chance to see one way or the other soon. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:25, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I seriously doubt that Prime will have anything to say about the 13 being singularities, one way or the other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:23, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::From what Hasbro's said it sounds like they plan to express the 13 backstory on a number of fronts, not just the Prime toon. I think there's a decent chance it'll be adressed at some point. Not definate, but certainly a posibillity. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 16:00, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Given the amount of product-moving time required, I doubt Hasbro would see any benefit to talking about not just one backstory but ''infinite'' backstories, dragging in dimensions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story itself just to show some characters vaulting back and forth between them. The very concept of multiversal-singularitism is of interest to only a handful and, almost inherently, does not "work" within one discrete storyline. They very well may leave the whole matter undiscussed and, for all intents and purposes, abandoned. But time will tell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

==Alien Traveler's version==
I'm sorry, but your version made up wayyyyy too much stuff. For example:
:As Unicron learned how to change his planetary form, Primus created the 13 in imitation of him. The 13 reproduced by budding, but the process had dark byproducts, so Prima was given the Matrix to perpetuate their race instead.
This was under the MARVEL COMICS CONTINUITY section! There was no 13 in the Marvel Comics continuity! They hadn't been created yet! This is absolutely not what we should be doing. We do not make up canon to make our pages read cohesively. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
:And aside from that? Anyway, let's continue that discussion on [[User talk:Alientraveller/The Primes]]. You must admit my version is far more in-depth. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:12, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
::Well no one put any input, but I hope my changes are now are more to your liking and rather than reverting a lot of work you could improve upon it instead, the article now longer seems like a stub with an elaborate intro and lots of notes. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 07:18, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::But you're not really chronicling the thirteen as a group in fiction. You're just going in-depth in what the individual members did. How is the Nexus Prime stuff relevant? Are you also going to note everything Vector Prime and Alpha Trion did? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:20, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
::::I did actually! The I looked and realized Trion and Vector and Nexus's individual exploits are better covered in this own article as it was becoming a bit of a Frankenstein, and that it should only cover instances of the Thirteen interacting. Which is why Fun Pub.'s section is fairly big, considering it does feature Vector, Alpha (and possible doppleganger) and the five components of Nexus.
::::Maybe we could hide the second two paragraphs about Fun Publications and unhide them if we get a Q&A answer regarding evil Trion. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 08:32, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::I appreciate your compromise approach, though I still think the current draft is heavily dependent on the "multiversal singularity" policy still being in effect, something that hasn't been touched on for these characters since like 1 page in 2005. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:34, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

== Solus Prime ==

I'm assuming we're going to wait for [[Transformers: Exiles|Exiles]] to be released before potentially adding him(/her?) to this list? --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 03:49, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
: Probably for the best. There really isn't anything to say till then. Wish it were closer than Sept.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:02, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

== misspelling ==

Could someone change "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to relenquish the Matrix." to "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to '''relinquish''' the Matrix."? The page is locked. --[[Special:Contributions/81.164.215.61|81.164.215.61]] 12:56, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

== Nexus ==

Except for Nexus, each of the bullets at the top describes what kind of person the Transformer was. Nexus's line, however, just focuses on what he physically was, a combiner. Exiles describes him as a cunning magician, so can someone with write access add that in?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 14:05, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Thanks, Zack.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 15:15, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Move? ==

Seems to me that this should be moved to "Thirteen", since that's the consistently-used proper name of the group. Or the most common "Thirteen (blank)" used in fiction. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:01, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Beast Mode Prime ==

[[Image:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]

Is the Prime on the upper right corner (the one to the left of the energy sphere/Vector Prime) the Beast Prime? Judging by the fact that he looks distinctly centaur-like... [[User:Tom Servo the Great|Tom Servo the Great]] 18:22, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
: We don't know. Was hoping someone would interrogate Hasbro/Prime crew at NYCC. No luck. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 18:50, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
:::It's not confirmed, but I think it's evident like Solus Prime. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:54, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
::::I disagree. It definately could be him. And may be him. But there's at least one huge monstrous member in the charging to battle pic that it could also be. We need to stay away from guesses as much as possible. As we always say, we don't need to have info "first". There is no race, and accuracy is more important. So until confirmed there's no reason for us to guess. Even if it's a reasonable guess.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 19:28, 20 October 2011 (EDT)

I don't think the energy sphere guy is Beast Prime, seeing as Minicon Prime is supposed to be the smallest, which the energy sphere guy seems to be. speaking of which, unless 'Prime' is not in his name, he may not even be a Mini-con in the movieverse, unless he got a lot larger. in the ROTF appearances of the 7 Primes, they're all seemingly larger than Megatron. [[User:CrowBuster|CrowBuster]] 17:21, 11 January 2012 (EST)[[User: CrowBuster|CrowBuster]]

== Alpha Trion ==
Since you've decided to keep all Alpha Trion's article's seperate, and just note that [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]] is a multiuniversal singualarity and the others disputed, does this mean that future incarnations of Alpha Trion will have their own article, or be included on [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? Just wondering.[[Special:Contributions/71.162.97.20|71.162.97.20]] 12:08, 11 November 2011 (EST)
: We'll address that when it happens, according to the circumstances. Impossible to say until then. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:42, 11 November 2011 (EST)

== Current placement of "Conceptual History" as of December 2nd, 2011 ==

I am personally not a fan of its placement in the page (or perhaps it's the title), I feel that goes more along the line of "trivia" which would typically reside at the bottom of the page with "Notes". I strongly feel that we should keep the structure of: "Members", then "Fiction", then either "Conceptual History" (CH), or mix the CH with "Notes". --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 06:38, 2 December 2011 (EST)
:I wrote the CH section at Interrobang's suggestion to specifically move it ''out'' of the bullet-pointed notes into full prose to give room for a proper charting of the ideas concept. Placement, you can argue, sure, but I just like having conceptual history sections up top as with [[Matrix of Leadership|the Matrix]], or [[Energon]], or the [[AllSpark]], as they are key to understanding the precise chronological unfolding of a lot of the information that then follows them on the page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:58, 2 December 2011 (EST)
::I prefer it at the top, as the Thirteen, like Unicron, energon, the Matrix, etc., are not a consistently portrayed concept. Better to elaborate on that fact to start with instead of having poorly-connected fiction sections and then an explanation why. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:06, 2 December 2011 (EST)

===The Aligned Thirteen===
I have serious philosophical problems with continuing to add Alignedverse stuff here when we were essentially told that "what was true in previous universes isn't necessarily true" there. The present incarnation of the Thirteen is clearly intended to be a "perfect" ground-up version of the story that doesn't have to be jury-rigged from previous events. More crucially, there are obvious contradictions with existing entities, particularly Alpha Trion - the top of this ''very talk page'' emphasizes that there can be no "SG" version of the old Thirteen, because they are multiversal singularities, and yet we have an indisputably SG Alpha Trion in the old multiverse. Conclusion: Alpha Trion was not a member of the Thirteen in the old multiverse. Hand-waving the ridiculous chronology of the multiversal entities from the old multiverse can account for the difference in Nexus Prime's history, the same way we can assume the Fallen betrays Primus over and over and over again in every new reality, but it shouldn't need to. 
I know we greatly value our old multiversal entities on this wiki, and for the most part so do I - but the Alignedverse should have been drawn out as separate with regards to the Thirteen as well as, probably, Unicron as soon as we learned what a fundamental character Alpha Trion (not A3) was to the new reality. It's a big contentious undertaking and so I've kind of avoided starting the fight, but it needs to be said, and so I've said it. -[[User:LV|LV]] 14:34, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:I vote for splitting into Thirteen (multiverse) and Thirteen (Aligned), or whatever the title would be. Along with Vector Prime, Liege Maximo, Prima, etc. being split up as well. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:06, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:Not that I carry a lot of juice around here, but I'd VERY much oppose splitting the articles. To my reading of Hasbro's explicit and cryptic statements since the whole multiversal singularities concept got rolling, especially as regards the 13, "Aligned" ESPECIALLY as regards the 13, represents Hasbro's official reveal of all the "we'll reveal it all later" stuff they've been saying for years.

:I'd even go one further, and suggest that, especially considering the HOF bios, some of the stuff from TF Legends, etc., I think Aligned (from Hasbro's non-wiki-friendly perspective) PROBABLY represents an official "upgrade" of EVERY major TF character to "multiversal singuilarity" status. I take Hasbro's statements RE: Aligned not as "This is a new clean copy of the TF Universe from the ground up" but rather as "Aligned represents THE clean copy of the TF Universe, of which all previous iterations were garbled and muddy photocopies"

:Which is not to say I'm suggesting that we start trerating all characters as singularities, quite the contrary. I believe Hasbro has rolled us back to their late 90's vision of "Transformers as Mythology" wherein there is "one ultimate truth" (probably unrevealed), which is represented by an infinite number versions all of which are allowed to count so long as they pass Archer's famous "squint test."

:SOOOO, if I were king of the wiki, this is what I'd do: Mentally note that Hasbro intends Aligned to be (for all intents and purposes) "Ultimate Truth." We promptly and effectively ignore that as "Authorial Intent" and document Aligned like any other continuity. MEANWHILE, any characters/concepts/etc. that Aligned paints a clear portrait of which have a meaningful (but poorly defined) analog in previous continuities, we retcon the squint-test in a general way to those previously poorly defined guys. Conviniently, and I'd wager by design more or less, 99% of what we have so far that qualifies as a "Well definined in Aligned, but present and murky/mysterious in prior continuities" are ALSO entities previously identified as singularities or their kin.

:Therefore where continuity specifics don't contradict (which we just document and ignore under the current system anyay), we assume that whatever is presented as true in Aligned for "singularities" holds true for them in non-Aligned universes. Eg. Minimus Prime is one of the 13 in G1 (though never explicitly named), and we can deduce he's probably (through whatever mysterious means) the creator of the G1 Microns (Micromaster/Micron = synonym in G1, Minicon/Micron = synonym in UT...but if that's a leap of logic too far by our standards, I get it). Since he's never mentioned by name in any G1 material, we can assume it's true, since we know he's a singularity-type-dude and that Hasbro means for the Aligned 13 to be the real-deal honest-to-betsy versions.

:Even if "multiversal singularity" as originally and explictly defined has become spread a bit thin, I think it's fair to say that the concept is still VERY useful as a functional category (for taxonomy, not neccessarily as a wiki-category), and the core concept very much works.

:By contrast SPLITTING 13 (Aligned) and 13 (EVERYTHING ELSE) does nothing other than return everybody who's not Fallen/Nexus/A3/Veccy to "name and details unknown" status outside of Aligned. Which is less than constructive.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

::Your entire premise seems constructed on the idea that Hasbro intends for Aligned to retroactively apply to all previous continuities; there is nothing to lead us to believe that. The fact that the Thirteen never got any meaningful use before the old multiverse was dumped and replaced by Aligned doesn't mean we should falsely equate the two Thirteens when a) they conflict even in the tiny amount we know about the multiversal Thirteen and b) we have been explicitly told that things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:02, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:::To back up Graham, Hasbro were very much explicitly against making Aligned part of the prior Multiverse. The Club wasn't allowed to roll it into the whole Axiom Nexus thing, and yes, the concept of the Thirteen in Aligned, and other universal hypermatters, were declared separate and distinct from their prior Multiverse's concepts. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:15, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Y'all are both missing my entire point (kind of making it FOR me in fact), but I was being long winded so, I'll try to be more brief here. As you say Hasbro has very explicitly said that "things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now." You all seem to be reading that as "Pre-Aligned and Aligned don't mix." I'm reading that as "All previous continuity was lies and falsehoods, that jazz never happened, Aligned is what's REAL." That's a thorny situation, but I'd bet my left knee that to the degree that Uncle PotatoHead cares about "canon" in general, THAT's what they mean. My understanding of how the wiki deals with all manner of retconning is that when a retcon doesn't explicitly screw up known-facts we acknowledge it, and when it DOES screw things up we either ignore or note it.

::::Sooooo....Pre-Aligned: Multiversal Singularities, notably the 13, were a thing, and that concept helped grease the wheels of Pre-Aligned fiction. OFICIALLY (by my interpretation), Hasbro says that with the start of Aligned all prior fiction is null-and-void, exisiting perhaps as a "squint test passing" version of something that might or might-not have happened. Since we have no intention of re-writing everything Pre-Aligned to say "This is crap and lies written by morons who didn't know the truth, please see 'Aligned Fiction' for real stuff", we find ourself in this position: Pre-Aligned Canon works the way we were told it worked when it still "counted." Aligned Canon (SUPPOSEDLY) represents the way things (ALL things before current, and in perpetuity) REALLY works. Pre-Aligned, The 13 are Multiversal Singularities (MVSs), but their roster and 90% of their details are unknown. In Aligned, which is The-One-And-True-Canon (supposedly) the 13 are now documented in some degree of completeness, but they aren't MVSs...because there IS NO MULTIVERSE, that was crap and lies. So when we document a part of TF canon that is officially "crap and lies" (everything pre-Aligned), we can either choose to assume that the 13 are either the same dudes as the One-True-Canon 13 (which demonstrably they are in all cases where we have comparable data points....excepting Logos), OR we can thick-headedly decide that because a "crap and lies" concept like MVS-hood is an important enough concept that the Aligned-13 MUST be different dudes because they exist in a world (One-True-Canon) where MVSing is logically impossible. I see no reason to assume that the Pre-Aligned 13 are not retroactively-intended to be the same guys as The Aligned-13. Since, from Hasbro's perspective, there is only one set of 13, period. It's the same sort of situation that Uhaul-Robot and his other cartoon flashback-buddies names and titles of glory.

::::TLDR Version: 13 (MVSs) exisit in a "truth" where MVSs are the default truth. 13 (Aligned)exist in a "truth" where they don't need to be MVSs, but Hasbro says that these are *THE REAL*("truer truth") 13. Therefore 13 (MVSs) because they are, by the LOGIC OF THEIR SHEER CONCEPT, the one-and-only 13 must, unless explicitly contradicted (which with the exception of Logos Prime, they don't, and since the fiction is over, they won't) equal 13 (Aligned) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

:Though, just to play Devil's Advocate, I suppose one could argue that Logos Prime represents at least one (micro, perhaps) continuity wherein at least one of the Aligned 13 =/= the 13 everywhere else. Which we could either decide means that the logic I laid out above is broken, or else that we can document variances as variances (up to and including member roster), while still assuming the rest holds true, functionally at least. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:35, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Something just grates on me that we're about to get the most complete notion of the Thirteen we've ''ever'' had, but because of Hasbro being continually indecisive and ultimately pulling the hamfisted assertion of "different multiverses" we can't really complete this article. It bugs me. I know it's ''technically'' correct, but I hate the feel of it. For the longest time we were on this crazy scavenger hunt for lore on the Thirteen and now we have to say they weren't ''the same'' Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:37, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:I definitely don't disagree that it's maddening. We were "supposed" to learn all about them in that IDW series mentioned-then-abandoned, which one has to think was one of the most influential things through absence to be, insofar of its inability to have any effect on the Aligned Thirteen or the current IDW backstory. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::It's grating, because it's crazy. Think about it this way, we're taling about the TF GODS here. Whether you're talking the Millenialist Mono-Deity, or ancient Pagan pantheons, whenever you get to "god level" in story telling you end up with a million versions of the same "god" told a million different ways. This is the nature of a living evolving storytelling culture, it's one of things I most love about Transformers, it's a modern mythic system in fast-forward speed evolution. There are like 15 different versions of Aphrodite/Venus, for instance, in many cases basic facts vary from version to version (place and method of origin, etc.), but no one disputes that they're all the same goddess. Even though you'll see some reference materials seperate out Venus and Aphrodite to keep their Roman and Greek histories etc. straight, there's ALWAYS an explicit reference that the two have over the centuries become conflated and interchangeable, and any shorter reference will treat them under a single entry. Because we have NEXT TO NOTHING on 13 (Multiverse) and will soon have nearly EVERYTHING on 13 (Aligned) it's stupid to split them. Are we going to make a Unicron (Multiverse) and Unicron (Aligned) and a Primus (Multiverse) and Primus (Aligned) split as well? If we split the 13, we gotta split the daddies as well. There's either a conceptual/logical bridge between the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" or there isn't. We can't have it both ways.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:29, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:I'm putting my reply down here, because the nesting thing going on above is a mess. In reply to Destronger: The quote specifically says "what '''''was true'''''" in the non-Aligned settings, so I don't see how you can interpret that as "we are saying the non-Aligned settings are mistellings of Aligned. Furthermore...non-Aligned fiction is ''still being produced by Hasbro'', which puts the lie to the idea that Hasbro is doing some kind of George Lucas "now we have the resources to tell the story we always meant to" thing.
:The facts are:
#In order to keep everything canon in past settings, Hasbro had to sest up a huge multiverse system with the Thirteen as multiversal singularities.
#When asked if Aligned was part of that system, Hasbro pretty clearly communicated that no, Aligned within its internal canon is not part of the multiversal system (even if the setup of the multiversal system would seem to internally demand that it is!). As far as I know, the Aligned stuff hasn't even got a multiversal stream name, so there's no reason to think they are meant to mesh in any way.
:Basically, Hasbro is trying to treat them as separately as they would treat Animated and My Little Pony, so we should as well. Not to mention the contradictions that pop up with stuff like the "Seven Primes", "Logos Prime", etc.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:11, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities. But I'll set all that aside and again ask the question that captures my point even more simply: Do we split Unicron and Primus into (Aligned)/(Multiversal) entries? How about the planets like Cybertron, Junk, Velocitron? Do we split those? The 13 fall into the same bucket as all those examples, big-picture macro-concepts that stay "true and consistant enough" regardless of continuity, while also having little enough to be said about them specifically, that they all get to live at a single entry. If we NEED to be pedantic about it and have a split-fiction section Where we say Multiverse: The 13 are Singularities and exisit in multiverses simultaneously Aligned: They do stuff explicitly in the novels and we see them in a flash-back, then FINE, that's cool. But they SO don't need to be split as a category. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 16:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::The sheer volume of noise you're putting out here is discouraging to conversation, but here are a handful of points: Yes, Unicron should probably have his own Aligned page. No, we don't need to split planets, because we never have. The Thirteen are characters and characters get different pages for different continuities. For the purposes of this split, "Aligned" and "Everything else" are two different continuities. What you seem to regard as a convincing argument to keep them merged works only if everyone already agrees that Hasbro meant something only you think they meant. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:54, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I also support splitting Unicron into an Aligned entry, but Primus...would be dang tiny. Just, like, DANG.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 18:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I apologize if you find my involvement to be more "noise" than "signal", I'll bow to group consensus whatever direction it swings in. Splitting Unicron is my personal litmus test for splitting the 13, I personally think doing so is daft and removing clarity rather than adding to information when a simple split-fiction section would do, but as the group wills. I'll go back to quietly fixing grammar and adding pictures of obscure goodies.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 19:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::It's not the signal-to-noise ratio, it's just the masses and masses of text. Even if it's all made of valid talking points, it's hard to deal with in this kind of medium. If you were offended, I apologize. I wasn't trying to be hostile. I have no idea how separating Unicron's actions in a cartoon unrelated to all other fiction "removes clarity", though - but to be frank, Unicron concerns me a lot less than the Thirteen. Unicron is, in both pre- and Aligned incarnations, an evil god dude. The Thirteen don't even seem to be composed of the same individuals - even Nexus Prime is made up of different guys. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:33, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::Weird side thought on Nexus Prime: What if he is the sort of inverse of the Movie Constructicons/Devastator? Instead of being many individuals who can merge into different versions of Devastator, he is one guy who can split into several individuals in multiple ways? Just something that bounced through the pachinko machine I use as a brain when I read what you wrote. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:35, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::::No real offense taken. For better or worse my brain has been molded to think and express this way (literary analysis), and I can get how this medium makes it hard to process. Anyway, I totally see the argument of the 13 being different guys, if that's the case they totally need a split, but are they? Other than Logos, who's a vaguely defined maybe from Takara's side of the house, who else varies, that we know of? Megatronus/Fallen, Nexus, Vector, they've all been fully-confirmed. Is there anyone else on the Multiverse-list that's NOT on the Aligned-list? We've got problems in the OTHER direction, A3 being all SG'd up, LeigeMaximo maybe being hard to reckon. But I don't think those rough-fit issues would invalidate the membership rolls. BTW Khajidha- that's a BRILLIANT notion. I think it'l be fanon in my brain from here forward :) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 09:02, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
"''Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities.''" 
No, we really are not. Aaron and Rik, the two guys largely responsible for the Aligned universe deal, were very much concerned about the continuity matter because they do know what fans are like. Not bragging, but I know this from personal correspondence and interaction with them through occasional paid work for the two for the [[Binder of Revelation]]. Aligned was explicitly meant to be a separate entity ''with no bleed-back into what came before''. What was true for what came before ''remained'' true for what came before and for whatever ongoing fictions within that framework would come (IDW, FunPub, movies), but would have no bearing on what came later in Aligned beyond "potential inspirational starting point for a premise". "G1" Wheeljack isn't a hardassed sword-swinging Wrecker now, Bumblebee still talks, etc etc. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:55, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
::Okay, it sounds like the answer to this is "yes", but just to check: do you know from that correspondence whether this separation also applies to the divine Unicron and Primus, meaning that they should be split as well?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:03, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I do not know for certain, I didn't ask. Going by the known intent, I can ''guess'' that the answer is ''probably'' "yes"... BUT. What we do know of Unicron and Primus so far in Aligned does not, to the best of my knowledge, actually ''contradict'' the two's non-Aligned multiversal backstory. So splitting Uni and Primus, so far, is STILL a point of contention without a clear answer. The Aligned stuff does not apply to the past stuff... but the past stuff might be used as the basis for Aligned stuff. I think we'd need to know more about the origin story of the two in Aligned before we can REALLY make the call to split. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:50, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:: Close enough to the horse's mouth for me. Pending KK's questons about the divinities being asnwered, I'll not argue any further.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:39, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

===Revisiting===
To revisit this discussion six months later and after the Covenant and what it has told us about the "Thirteenth Prime", I don't think we really have any ''choice'' at this point but to have separate "Multiverse" and "Aligned" pages for the Thirteen. We could use this one as a hub page and keep the "conceptual history" section on for ease of explanation, then have separate links off to those articles for member lists and fiction respective to the two groups. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 10:01, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:So the multiverse Thirteen list would be Prima, Vector Prime, Nexus Prime, Liege Maximo, the Fallen, and Logos Prime, right? I guess this would also entail new Aligned-only articles for those guys (minus Logos) too... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:58, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::I ''guess'', but in most cases that honestly that seems like it would be only done as a matter of wiki standards, rather than because the articles as they are now are inherently "wrong". Like, I really don't think there'd be any point to splitting out Primus and Unicron's aligned stuff into articles of their own, for instances. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:35, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:::There is also the matter of "[[Timeless]]" having [[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]] getting a peak at (what we have determined to be) the Aligned Continuity. Whether that suggests that it's the Club's way of saying that Aligned is within the Multiverse or not is still up for debate. If it isn't, then Rhinox must have surpassed the Multiverse's boundries to get a glimpse from the outside of it. But if it is, then... I just really don't know anymore. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:00, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::::I don't think we need to append any special significance to that. The club's been very good about treating the Aligned stuff as "separate", whether it's describing the universe that Rhinox views as far out and unclassified, or talking about TFSS Slipstream's mysterious origins on her bio-card. Understand, mind you, that I find the sentence "separate from the multiverse" to be amazingly frustrating and dumb and all my senses shift to white noise for a moment when I hear it since it defeats the entire point of HAVING a multiverse with these rules at all, but it is what it is and I deal. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:48, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::::Eh, it does kinda give our "[[Omniverse]]" page a bit more weight to it, though. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:12, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:I'm not sure why Covenant would make splitting THIS page necessary. It's not like we have two entirely separate lists of the Thirteen members -- we have one full Aligned list and one incomplete Multiversal list, with only one point of contention between the two that I'm aware of (Logos Prime). And if the much, much longer pages for Primus, Unicron, even the Wreckers can be multiversal and aligned, then The Thirteen can be too. Yes, The Thirteenth Prime is one crazy bag of cats, but that's its own problem; it doesn't have to influence the Thirteen page, anymore than having separate Alpha Trion pages did. Let Thirteenth Prime's page deal with him, but we don't need to spread that crazy to the rest of the wiki just so that his page makes more sense. Or is there some other bone of contention with Covenant's content? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:07, 30 December 2013 (EST)
::At a minimum, the "Members" section needs to be split into "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:01, 31 December 2013 (EST)
:::Agreed. That's a given. Who all is a confirmed member of the Thirteen outside of Aligned, though? '''Vector Prime''' and '''Nexus Prime''', definitely. '''Logos Prime''' was identified as a contemporary of Vector Prime, so that should count. '''The Fallen''' and '''Prima''' from ''The Ultimate Guide''. '''Liege Maximo''' remains unconfirmed as a Multiversal Thirteen, though, right? Six others were created for Aligned, and we all know the stories with '''Alpha Trion''' and '''Optimus'''. That's it, I think.--[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:02, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::''The Ultimate Guide'' named Liege Maximo as a Multiversal 13er. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:47, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:::::I don't have the ''Guide'', but the Conceptual History as written makes it sounds ambiguous. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:31, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::::Hm, so it does. Lemme check the book again. ''*goes to look at the book*'' Okay, upon further examination, it states that ''Alignment'' confirms his as a 13er, so I guess the ambiguity of this in the Conceptual History is accurate in regards to that story's apocryphal status. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 17:08, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:You know, now that we've split the Multiversal 13 from the Aligned 13, that rumor about [[Maccadam]] being one of the Multiversal 13 mentioned in ''The Ultimate Guide'' no longer seems fruitless. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:22, 3 January 2014 (EST)

===Revisiting Pt. 2===
So, what's the ultimate consensus, split or leave the pages as is? [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] ([[User talk:Mimi|talk]]) 17:54, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

===Revisiting Pt. 3===

There's new media with which to look back and reinterpret the clusterfuck that is the Covenant of Primus. Specifically, [[The Crucible]], or RID #34, goes into great depth of the exploits of the Thirteen towards the end of their time. This matches up relatively closely with Aligned fiction. Does this mean we can re-merge the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists of Thirteen, with a singular note regarding Logos versus Optimus? [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 10:01, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:IDW may be re-tailoring their notion of the Thirteen into a more workable form, but merging the lists depends heavily upon the no longer true "multiversal singularity" notion. We see no indication that the Primes from IDW are multiversal singularities. They're far more like the Aligned Primes in that they're from one universe only. If anything, I think this more supports ''further'' fracturing our list so we don't have to keep trying to reconcile the movieverse versus Aligned versus the Unicron Trilogy presentation of them.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:54, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
::We almost ''never'' see any indication that any of the Primes are multiversal singularities, because that is only actual relevant to stories that are about the multiverse. There's nothing about the Fallen in either War Within or ROTF to indicate he's not "from one universe only," or Vector Prime in the Cybertron cartoon, or Prima and the Liege Maximo in the Marvel Comics, etc. That is how this has always worked. For most of the Thirteen, and also Primus and Unicron for that matter, being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction in which nothing whatsoever is said to indicate other universes even exist, because it's a background detail only relevant to obscure fan club stuff and the like. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:13, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:::To clarify, I don't personally see any problem with keeping all information on the Thirteen as a group here rather than in separate articles. I just think increasingly we should organize it more along the lines of the Wreckers article, and acknowledge that the Thirteen can have different rosters in different universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 12:27, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

::::''"being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction"''
:::Isn't that a textbook example of "the tail wagging the dog"? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness|talk]]) 11:27, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:In any case, while this page can certainly remain in its current form, covering the 13 concept cross-continuities in much the same way as the Wreckers page, the splitting of the multiversal versions and the Aligned versions of the characters included in both lists (Nexus, Prima, Fallen, Liege Maximo, and, now, Onyx) is long past due. -- [[User:Shellspark|Shellspark]] ([[User talk:Shellspark|talk]]) 01:37, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
::This is 100% true. Nexus Prime isn't even made of the same people, for crying out loud. -[[User:LV|LV]] ([[User talk:LV|talk]]) 10:48, 25 October 2014 (EDT)

Where would the IDW Thirteen be covered if we split their character articles into multiverse and Aligned? There's no evidence that they were that universe's original Transformers or that they were born to Primus. They seem more like regular people than the typical demigods. I'd be tempted to suggest splitting every single member of the Thirteen by continuity family, same as Alpha Trion. Hasbro has very obviously abandoned the notion of multiversal singularities, even for stuff like IDW that's technically part of the pre-Aligned multiverse. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:40, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:There are still canonical stories featuring the Thirteen hopping universes though, so it's important to keep some together. I wouldn't mind if we gave the Movie Fallen his own page though.
:I want to ask, are we going to cover IDW's 13 here or not? I'm itching to add Alpha Trion to the multiverse list. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

== New information from the Complete AllSpark Almanac and 2015 Facebook blogs ==

How shall we proceed with the new information that there can be both singularity and non-singularity iterations of the Thirteen in the [[multiverse]], of which the [[Aligned continuity family]] is now a part of as [[Uniend]]? Also, Ask Vector Prime has Vector Prime referring to Logos Prime and Liege Maximo in the same post. Can we finally put Liege back onto the mainstream multiverse list? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 13:47, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:Are we really treating everything Ask Vector Prime says as canon? I doubt every answer he's giving is being run past Hasbro or whoever. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:24, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::I've talked to the author of the page, and it's basically allowed to answer things that the Club is allowed to work wit, and vice versa-for example, he can't talk about anything that has to do with the things in the Bay movies. So I'd say that it's something that's been approved by Hasbro, and making it easier so they don't have to ring up Hasbro HQ every couple hours and ask them if the answer they provide for a Facebook promotion is acceptable. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:29, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, but what I'm saying is if Vector Prime says Fixit in RID is a dimension-hopping Pipo from Victory, that's not going to mean we have to merge the Fixit (RID) and Pipo pages, right? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:08, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, no. But then I doubt they're allowed to use the current series anyway. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:16, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::I really don't think that's a hypothetical that will happen. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:19, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::Indeed, no, I was using it as a theoretical example. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:23, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Oh well, too late I guess. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:09, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
Oh heck, [[Ask Vector Prime]] just said that it was Solus Prime who used her Forge to shatter the Star Saber that mainstream multiverse Nexus Prime has been looking for! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:35, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

== Revisiting yet again ==

While I know I was the one to raise the subject of splitting these characters after the distinct versions of them appeared in the Covenant, I think IDW's take on them requires us to talk on this again, as does our recent change in perspective regarding accessibility of our articles. IDW's Thirteen are based on the Aligned Thirteen (with Optimus Prime being the outlier unanswered question right now), and we've just had some recently commentary from "Vector Prime" on Facebook regarding the blending of the Uniened cluster with the multiverse.

I think Sipher's remark when talking about Unicron and doing exactly the same thing with him is worth quoting here: "We don't split "Cybertron (planet)" into different pages via continuity. Or "Autobot" or "Decepticon" or "spark" etc etc. While these are all in-universe "things" they're also broader multiversal concepts, and we already approach those with a slight... distance if you will. I feel like these meta-deals like Unicron, Primus, The Thirteen, etc, could benefit from treating them the same way we do those pages... stepping back a little and treating them less like concrete THINGS with a rigid this-is-exactly-it approach right out of the gate, and more as concepts with broad-strokes facets that are almost always true but the details will vary (sometimes wildly)."

I think we seriously need to look at treating the individual Thirteen character articles like this. I don't think it would require any change to ''this'' page—we would still maintain separate lists of who's who in the group in the different "realms", it's just that the the character articles we'd be linking to (with the obvious exception of Optimus) would be the same ones. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
*Agreed. If I recall correctly, a previous fly in the ointment was Shattered Glass Alpha Trion versus Forrest Lee's statement about no SG The Fallen at the top of this talk page. However, another Ask Vector Prime answer suggests that travelling to negative polarity streams attempts to flip the nature of singularities, providing a canon counterpoint and reducing the no SG thirteen thing to authorial intent. So with that in mind, I'd say I'm for this. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 06:18, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::Given some of the hints about how the rules of Singularities are soon to change, perhaps a wait and see attitude would be prudent. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:04, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::: *squint*What're you up to, Sorenson...? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:45, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Honesty, just trying to save you some work. (Whatever may or may not happen, I'm not the impetus.)--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:14, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::According to various Ask Vector Prime answers, the rules have already changed: we have non-singularity versions of Unicron, Primus-less Cybertrons, Aligned was outside the multiverse and is now back in. Pretty much everything about How This Stuff Works is up in the air right now. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::The ambiguity was my main reason for proposing a condensing of the information into as few places as possible so it can more easily be explained, but if the word is that there's about to be some new exploration of what all this means in-fiction, then yes, we probably ought to hold off. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:28, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::I agree with holding off for now. After all, the current Fun Publications storylines seem to be all about restoring balance to the destabilized multiverse. Plus, Aligned Megatronus is going to appear in the ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'' cartoon and singularity Nexus Prime might appear in ''[[Another Light]]'' later this year. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 14:05, 28 May 2015 (EDT)

Remember this? Now that all's said and done, I stick by it. With IDW continuity continuing to do more and more with the Thirteen, depicting the characters and their backstories as they appeared in Aligned fiction, I'm even more convinced that the different incarnations need to live on the same page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:26, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:So, who should stay separate? Optimus and Alpha Trion, obviously; Megatronus and Vector feel like borderline cases, so maybe they should be split off using suites. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with merging them all. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:48, 16 November 2015 (EST)
::Agreed on Optimus and Trion; for Megatronus and Vector, rather than a straight split, I'd go for more of a standard split-out page like we do for "Generation 1 cartoon continuity" or "IDW Generation 1 continuity", with a small write-up on the main article page that links off to a larger page containing the full run-down, plus a suite, as you say. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:51, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:::The Community Portal had [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#Multiversal singularities|a discussion]] in which people liked the idea of using suites for some of the more wildly different versions (like SG versions) of these guys. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:13, 16 November 2015 (EST)

== I count fourteen " Multiverse Thirteen..." ==

1.Prima, 2. Vector Prime, 3. Megatronus, 4. Nexus Prime, 5. Logos Prime, 6. Micronus Prime, 7. Liege Maximo, 8. Solus Prime, 9. Epsitimus, 10. Autonomous Maximus, 11. Solomus, 12. Onyx Prime, 13. Alchemist Prime, 14. Alpha Trion...
Alpha Trion is omitted from the list in the article itself, while Micronus Prime is omitted from the template at the bottom of the article... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:Oh, wait, Trion was established as multiverse Thirteen at some point? I've not been keeping up with every single one of the Vector Prime posts... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:25, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::I think SOMEONE said Alpha Trion was a multiversal singularity at some point, but I'm certain it wasn't Vector Prime. I think it was way back when Multiversal singularities were established as a thing by Hasbro. I'm not sure if it was meant all along to just mean Prime Alpha Trion was one of the Thirteen? I'm pretty confused by this whole thing to be honest. I was just pointing out the incongruity. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:28, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, I see, Trion was added to the multiverse Thirteen on the template back when he was established as belonging to the IDW Thirteen, who at this point are clearly just normal people. Checking again, the post that noted Autonomus, Solomus, etc. as being multiverse Thirteen specifically notes Trion as being one of the Aligned-specific ones. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::::This whole article is going to have to be majorly restructured anyway as there is no longer any such thing "mutliverse Thirteen" now that Aligned is part of the multiverse. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:08, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::Well we knew that was coming, as Jim intimated in the section above this one. The rupturing of the barrier between the Aligned family and the rest of the multiverse is doing ''something'' to the Thirteen that is basically going require this be re-written with "this is how it used to be, this is how it is now" approach, but whatever is is that's happened hasn't finished happening yet, so we should probably wait a bit. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Autonomous Maximus ==

I don't think it should be definitively stated that Autonomous and the Last Autobot are the same guy; in my opinion, the description seems to be a humorous reference to [[Anonymous Maximus]], given the similarity of name to the one we use on the wiki; the description given would work equally well for him. Similarly, I think the Maccadam part should be relegated to a trivia note on the Alchemist/Maccadam pages; if we are going to have it here, at least have a note stating that it wasn't explicit. The Autonomous thing, however, is much less clear in what it's referring to, so... [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:They both might be lonely sentinels, but Occam's Razor suggests that if one of them is being retconned into a member of the Thirteen, it's probably the one who's explicitly a servant of Primus and isn't the brother of someone who's definitely not a member of the Thirteen, y'know? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::That's as may be, but the name seems to deliberately evoke our term for Superion Maximus's brother. I admit that it's more likely to be the Last Autobot on a fictional level, but I think there's enough ambiguity there that we shouldn't call Autonomous = Last Autobot definitely canon. (Besides, maybe Anonymous Maximus is the same guy as the Last Autobot...) [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:47, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Personally, I don't see how saying the guy whose description is exactly that of the Last Autobot is the same guy as the Last Autobot is any more speculative than, for example, saying that an unnamed guy in a comic panel who looks exactly like Blue Bacchus is an appearance of Blue Bacchus, y'know? It's not even a "some say" kind of thing like with Maccadam - the sentence is clearly setting out to tell us that the Last Autobot is one of the Thirteen, it just doesn't use that name. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 20:43, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
"Anonymous Maximus" does not match the description of Autonomous Maximus at all. He wasn't a "lone sentinel," there were three others with him, and he has a brother who isn't one of the Thirteen, so aside from similar names I see nothing in common there. Autonomous is the Last Autobot, yeah, that works. He's also Superion Maximus's dead brother? Nope. Doesn't fit. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:36, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::There's really nothing linking him to the Anonymous Maximus besides a similar-sounding name. He's pretty gosh-darned clearly supposed to be the Last Autobot to the point that I'm not clear why definite language isn't being used. Perhaps a follow-up question to VP could clarify. Conversely, Alchemist Prime's bit seems quite deliberately worded to keep in-tune with the original "Maccadam is one of the Thirteen" thing, in that it's presented as just being a rumour that some people ''think'' might be the case (ie: his drunk patrons talking nonsense). - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Removing my line from the IDW section ==

AVP established that G1 Cartoon Unicron was NEVER part of the singularity, and in my interpretation the idea was that, even "outside" the Shroud event, it "just so happened" that Unicron was created while a truly singular version of him existed. Why couldn't the same apply to the IDW versions of the 13?

Here's another example: the Animated universe. AVP did a lot of hand-waving to make it so that Wyatt's pipe dream of no Primus could be true, even before the idea of the Shroud. Maybe something like that could apply to the IDW universe as well?

Point is, there's no reason that the IDW version ever "had to be part of" the Singular nature of the 13. If it's possible for non-singular versions of Unicron to exist, and if Primus can just straight up not be in certain universes, then maybe the IDWverse - and perhaps others - could have had entities similar to the 13 but "not ever part" of the singular versions of the 13. [[User:Magaroja|Magaroja]] ([[User talk:Magaroja|talk]]) 20:05, 6 March 2016 (EST)
:Yeah, but the Shroud retroactively explains ''why'', from our perspective, they weren't. It's catch-all bullshit-fu. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:38, 6 March 2016 (EST)

==Should the "Multiversal Thirteen" be renamed?==

Since the Multiversal Thirteen have literally been retconned out of existence, should they be renamed...something else? Like the Forgotten Thirteen, or the Former Thirteen, or something?

Also, related, why are the Multiversal Thirteen listed above the "Aligned" Thirteen when the Covenant of Primus was released before the Ask Vector Prime post? Especially since the "Aligned" Thirteen seem to be the Thirteen that are popping up in the comics and toys, and probably everything else going forward, it might be confusing for people.
[[User:ZakuConvoy|ZakuConvoy]] ([[User talk:ZakuConvoy|talk]]) 19:47, 7 March 2018 (EST)

==Extra image==
[[File:One-Primes.jpg|thumb]]

==Toys Section==

When official images for the Thirteen from the Age of the Primes toyline are released, should a section be added about these specific figures regarding these Thirteen members? Meaning not all Alpha Trions, Vector Primes, or Fallens, just these versions.
Basically what was done with the Wreck 'N Rule Collection on the Wreckers page? [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] ([[User talk:TFEarthConquest|talk]]) 10:42, 5 December 2024 (PST)

Talk:Thirteen

2024-12-05T18:43:06Z

TFEarthConquest:

{{Note|At the Botcon 2009 Question panel, [[Forest Lee]] (Hasbro's internal TF continuity guy) when asked what The Fallen would be like in "Shattered Glass" finally stated explicitly that The Fallen '''was''' a multiversal singularity-- there is no "SG" Fallen.. there is only The Fallen, one guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT) reported by Walky}}

==Multiversal singularities==
Are the first 13 all "continuity singularities" as Primus and Unicron are? One version existing across all realities? Vector Prime definately seems to be, and Maccadam as well if you include "Prime Spark" as cannon. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

How can Unicron jump continuities wih all his different HISTORIES? he spent MILLIONS OF YEARS as Cybertrons' MOON fergods sake!

The whole singularities thing is a godawful mess. You have to start acceptign that Unicron, who DEMONSTRABLY spends tens or tens of MILLIONs of years in individual continuities is time-travelign as WELL as jumping continuities. Which is fine, but for some reason in the Armada comic he doesn't, and no one's ever even HEARD of Unicron before, he's a completely external threat with no history in this universe.

But then, I think brad Mick intended Thundercracker to be one of the 13, so what do I know? It's not like I have a decent track record at pattern recognition or anything... ''*cough*predaconpolitics*cough*''

Also, IS Primus a singularity across all continuities? I could have sworn we saw him DIE. ''I hate the sucky TFU-type Multiverse! it sucks, it sucks '''so hard''' Gregory!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

...why is it impossible that no one's ever heard of Unicron in the Armada universe until he shows up? It makes perfect sense to me. Hell, the only person who's ever even investigated or shown more than a little interest Cybertron's past in the Armadaverse is Overrun, and he was from another universe anyway. If there's only one Unicron and infinite universes, of COURSE he's going to be new to some of them! Derik, start making sense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

but if he's new to SOMe of them, how is he ancient in MANY of them? :~( does he exist simultaneously in the past of many universes? The marvel US Comic and Aramda toon BOTh, for instance, have Unicron at different locations in space in the year 2020. Is he time-traveling?

I guess mostly i just bitch because I think it sucks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

I took it as a given that he time-travels when he moves between dimensions. This isn't really that hard to figure out, man. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Say, do we know enough about how the TF multiverse works to say for sure that when it's 1977 in one universe it's 1977 in them all?
--[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

The Ultimate Guide refers to the non-Fallen original Cybertronic Transformers as "Prima and the Twelve", which, while not clear, implies to me that Prima is in addition to the twelve. Also, I see no reason to casually discount Primon's existence or Matrix-holding simply because we know Prima was the first Transformer on Cybertron - we know there were Transformers before Cybertron because the Covenant of Primus predate its creation. Primon could have held the Matrix before Prima ever existed.

Maccaddam being anything other than a bar-owner was a goddamn joke, and Legends explicitly de-continuities itself so its stories can't be used to support arguments. Prime Spark was a WARendfeld story anyway.

''(next part of argument contains minor spoilers for the club comic''

And I don't understand the concern about Unicron at all. He's not one guy who travels between all continuities, he's a single entity that exists in all continuities (or none, presently) simultaneously. That's why the Unicron the TFU away team flew to was in the depths of our space in Year-The-End-Of-BM-Plus-One but vanished when the Unicron in Energon was destroyed. Simply because he was a dormant moon in the Armadaverse in 1991 has no bearing on his activities in 1991 in the G1 comic (eating Cybertron) or the G1 cartoon (cruising around the universe to a groovy synth soundtrack). The same is clearly true of Primus - otherwise, you have to assume he's been physically dimension-hopping-and-time-travelling around the multiverse as well, which is not the case because otherwise there would only be a Cybertron in one universe at any given time. The club comic's discussion of Cybertron-as-hinge-point supports my view, I think.

Vector Prime is unlike Unicron and Primus in that he is a single entity existing in a single continuity at any given time, no different from Axer. It's possible that one of the Twelve in every continuity is a Vector Prime analogue, but in my opinion we don't have nearly enough evidence to say one way or another. -[[User:LV|LV]] 15:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree strongly, LV. Though Unicron has the ability to move between dimensions at will, he is confined to one universe at a time. According to the Club comic itself, Primus is "a single, infinite curvea cross all realities; the only truly unique thing in all of creation." Unicron is "bound always by his imprisonment in a physical body, he's been incapable of destroying mroe than one reality at a time." Thing is, being dead in the black hole *changed*this dynamic. The Unicron singularity is what has, for the first time, consolidated the Unicron of allwhens into one black hole which is beginning to perpetuate itself across every timeline. This is why Cybertron's Unicron is beginning to affect Universe's Unicron. This occurrence is a new situation, unique to this storyline. It can't be used as evidence to support Unicron's properties in normal circumstances. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Then I agree with Derik. If Unicron only exists one place at one time, it is essentially irreconcilable with what has been shown in the fiction. If Unicron can happily time-travel when he changes dimensions, then there is nothing preventing him from existing in all dimensions simultaneously. He simply travels to the beginning of each when he leaves the previous one, thus existing linearly from his own perspective but simultaneously across all universes from every single other being's. You cannot have a time-and-space-travelling Unicron and a Unicron that can only be in one dimension at a time from any perspective but his own. In other words, as was said already, we can definitely place Unicron in at least two continuities in 1991, since he was actively eating Cybertron and orbiting Cybertron. If canon says otherwise, then it's canon, but it is fundamentally illogical and unworkable. And yes yes, transforming aliens from a planet the size of Saturn made of metal blah blah blah, but there is "unrealistic premise" and there is "an explanation which in no ways accounts for any of the material it purports to explain". But oh well. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

But they were two different 1991s, man, in different timelines. He's not in 1991 twice at the same time, he's in two distinct 1991s at different times. Hell, as Kil said above, we don't even know that when it's 1977 in one universe, it's 1977 in them all. Hell, when it's 2030AD in the Unicron Trilogy, it's been demonstrated that it's apparently ~2350AD in Generation 1! I do not see it as irreconcileable. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing which is better illustrated with a picture, but Unicron CANNOT time-travel when changing dimensions without allowing the possibility of existing in multiple continuities simultaneously. That is just the way it is with multiple simultaneously-existing timelines. If you do not want them to be the same year, that is fine. Unicron can nonetheless exist in 2030AD in UT and 2350AD in G1 simultaneously if he can time-travel.

It is not an issue for debate; the canon says what it says. However, the canonical explanation is irrational. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Here I was thinking no one would respond to this while I was at work and I come back to "this." Let's put this in talking points:

1) Primus is one single pan-dimensional being existing simultaniously in all continuities. We're all agreed on that right? We can like it or dislike it, but at the moment that's what cannon says.

2)Unicron has only ever existed in one continuity at a time (until Cybertron). Fine. Let's look at that. It *IS*odd that the brothers would be different this way without explination and that if he could jump through time and dimensions completely at will he wouldn't always jump to the begining of each one, and so, yes, to all perspectives but his own exist everywhen at once. There are two possible solutions to that part of the issue: either A) He can't travel through time in an unlimited fasion but only make small jumps time-wise or with great difficulty, or B) He cannot travel in time at all, not even when he jumps universes, but as Walky suggested, time is not in the same reletive place across universe. ie - When it's 1985 in the cartoon maybe it's only 1945 in the IDW books. If he jumped between them he would seem to travel intime but would not actually do so. Do those work, at least as a plausible enough to forget the iffyness solutions?

3)Why dismiss Maccadam as a joke? The entry in the DK guide seemed perfectly serious to me. Did it leave question as to whether it was true or a rummor? Sure. But I don't see anything that leans the suggestion one way or another. I rather like the idea myself. Legends, does put itself purposefully out of continuity, true, BUT when you're dealing with a multiverse can you totally do that? I mean if there are infinite universes the ones from Legends must be included in their somewhere right?

4)Getting back to my original question: Is the concensus that there are multiple Vector Prime's across continuities? It just seems that if his job is to safeguard space time that'd make things awefully complicated with ALL of him jumping around and constantly running into each other. Would one single Primus make an infinitude of reality jumping Vector Primes? And if he did, why doesn't an infinite army of VPs show up at each trouble spot to deal with the problem and wipe out and Unicron/Decepticon problems while they're at it? So far we've only seen ONE Vector Prime at work across the whole spectrum of past TF universe. We're sure he's not a singularity?

[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I can no longer make conclusions about Vector Prime based on the ludicrous canonical explanation for Unicron, so I abstain from commenting on him. However, I maintain that the reference in the UG to Maccaddam is clearly a joke - they're talking about a bar, and they immediately say that this absurd claim that the barkeeper is a legendary ancient Transformer with the observation that they serve extremely strong drinks. It's a joke about being drunk. Entirely in-character for Furman. -[[User:LV|LV]] 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

See I just don't read the Maccadam entry that way at all. It reads serious to me. The final line is meant to put a bit of humorus doubt on the rest, but only a bit of doubt/mystery IMO. Maccadam's has always been a bit of a special place and a pet local of Furman's and I can totally see him quite seriously setting it up to be used this way. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ in our takes on it. The important thing for the Wikki is that Maccadam remains a rumored, but not confirmed, member of the 13. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I had another thought, the better to muddy the waters. With Unicron and Primus having god or near-god status, could their being the same, er, being doesn't necessarily mean they're actually bouncing back and forth between dimensions and times all the time? Could they be 'aspects' or 'splinters' of the same being?
(Way to be obscure: There's a ''Doctor Who'' story called ''The City of Death'' which has a neat example, but moving on...)
This could be what makes them so hard to finally kill, if they've got the entirety of their 'selves' spread out across multiple realities at a time. This also means it's not hard for Unicron to attack in the Marvel reality in 1991, the Dreamwave UT reality in 2003, the Movie reality in 2005, and so on. He doesn't (always) travel between dimensions, he just already exists that way.
Hmmm...OK, maybe that made sense.
[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 05:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

:If Macadam as a member of the 13 was a joke, why did the pictue of Macadam's bad show characters from multiple continuities?

:Everyone sseems really comfortable saying "There's only one Primus, just liek Unicron." I admit I've msised some material lately- vould someone please tell me '''where''' this was established? Because-- we've kinda seen Primus die.

::and Unicron. But it's a fair point. For all their apparent similarities, Primus and Unicron represent fundamentally different things, so it's not unreasonable to assume that some aspects of them differ wildly. If Unicron represents chaos, then his random appearances and contradictory histories suddenly make quite a bit more sense to me. He's not MEANT to obey the normal rules. It's against his very nature.

:Unicron time-traveling I dont' really gundamentally have a hard time accepting. We saw in Worlds Collide (?) that the untuned Transwarp Space Bridge portals were flittign across space AND time, showing pictures of the distant past (BW) and buture (BW Neo/BM) as well as plainly laternate worlds (RiD.) So it's '''possible''' that Whisper's world Unicron was coming from int he very deep and distant future, and he decided that the Armada-toonverse was weak and ignorant enough he could just show up in the present and demolish it, and didn't need to lay deep plans to do so.

:But- where the hell did dreamwave!Armada's Mini-cons come from then if not Unicron?

:Has Unicron even marauded across 'infinite' realities? In Worlds Collide they call it his ''Ninth Emergence.'' That's not infinite realities. That's '''nine''' realities. And so what was up with Primus saying Unicron ate the previous Universe in us!Marvel#74? Was he just '''lying''' for no reason?

:My main complaint witht he Multiversal Unicron we were presented with si that it '''doesn't make sense''', not that they didnt' explain it all, it's that '''no''' possible explanation seems to explain it all. And not tiny inconstencies- massive, glaring fundamentally unworkable inconsistencies. Inconsistencies even in the material generated that's suppsoed to explain how this all works!

:Kang's explanation form Marvel comics, with time-travel and th war to pin down his various aspects works. Except- we'rs '''explicitly told''' that no, that's '''not''' the case. So... bah. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Primus and Unicron exist across multiple continuities, because they are Gods, and represent chaos and order. However, they CAN be removed from a given continuty, and still continue to exist in others.

Vector Prime exists across all continuities and times, because it's in his job description. (Even though he technically died, his "younger self" is still in the timestream, capable of visiting anywhere and anywhen.)

We know Unicron can manipulate time (Like when he yanked Galvatron II from a future timeline to use as his minion in the present) so it makes sense that he can travel through time. The only incongruity with this is if he is indeed a single entity hopping through timelines, then why would the Unicron singularity mess with him while he was in the Universe.. err.. Universe. It either wouldn't have happened to him yet, or would have been in his past; either way he wouldn't have gotten sucked into it from a different universe unless he either was a multiple Universe entity like Primus, or the singularity is something that winds up being both in his past and his future an infinite ammount of times.--[[User:UndeadScottsman|UndeadScottsman]] 07:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

------------------------------------
Wasn't The Last Autobot called such, because he was the last Autobot made by Primus? Shouldn't he have been one of the 13?

Or am I totally off base here? Again.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Without more information, it's impossible to say. As far as I can tell, he's unique to the G1 comic continuity. Though he otherwise bears a number of striking resemblences to Vector Prime. In any case, this debate is probably better suited for [[Talk:Last_Autobot]].

T^he last Autobot was a name given to him by those who came later, not Primus. He's also known as The Ultimate Warrior and The Soulof Cybertron. He is convieniently refered to as TLA by fans because 1) his true name was never revealed 2) That was the tittle of one of the issues of the Marvel comic, giving the most 'weight' to that name of his 3. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
:(Part of comment deleted. I misread your statement. Sorry.) TLA is actually referred to as such by Optimus Prime on several occasions. It was in fact the title of issue #79 (something to keep in mind for disambiguation!), and Spike Witwicky also refers to himself as "TLA" in that issue. But at the same time, I'd say it's reasonably obvious that "TLA" is not the name Primus gave him.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
------------------------------------
As well as being mentioned in a Japanese timeline, Alpha Trion actually specically states that he is "a first generation product of Vector Sigma" in the TV show. Can't be sure of the episode offhand, but is very probably The Key To Vector Sigma.

I think that this may rule him out of being one of the Thirteen. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

:Really? I would have thought it made Alpha Trion an especially good candidate. I guess it comes down to what one considers Vector Sigma to be.... (By the way, please use signatures!)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Every flashback to the birth of the 13 shows them arising full-born from the ground. No Vector Sigma involved. Trion may be among the first of the first 'production generation' that came after that. (This, of course, holds up only until they retcon it, but ancient as Trion always seemed ot me- it was never 'ancient enough to be one of the 13.') -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::::Certainly a plausible interpretation. But I wouldn't consider the matter closed one way or the other.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure the thirteen were supposed to have been created BEFORE Primus became Cybetron. Vector Sigma apparently also pre-dated Cybertron, but I figure Vector Sigma wasn't pressed into service creating Transformers immediately. Infact, probably not 'till the Quintessons came along and installed the shell program that became the Oracle. But as you say, this period of Transformers pre-history is notoriously sketchy. I'll certainly be interested to see if they ever fill in the gaps. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

::::::The only pre-Cybertron Transformers I know of are from the text story [[Reaching the Omega Point]]. Before Primus trapped himself and Unicron in the planetoids, he had to be sure that the trick wour work, and that he would be able to shape his prison. So he shunted a bit of his essence into some lifeless rock and created the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]], 12 Transformers based on our Earth zodiac. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 12:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Implicitly, [[Primon]] must also have been created before Cybertron, since we know he predates Prima as Matrix-holder and we know Prima was the first Transformer created on Cybertron. (Which may actually also imply that the Liege Maximo predates Cybertron... -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::: Doesn't the Leige Maximo say though that when the first named Prime "rose from Cybertron" or something like that that he did too. That definately implies They were created there. Primon I think is simply an annomoly, a glitch in Furman's telling of the story that will likely never be followed up on.
::::::::: [[:Image:Liegemaximo.jpg|Here's the text]]. Considering we don't know when the "first named Prime" was created, that's a meaningless statement, so it's not helpful to us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't this page be at "Thirteen original Transformers"? It would certainly make the bold part at the beginning look better. -[[User:LV|LV]] 06:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
: Done. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

=="Original"?==
Are these guys REALLY the first TFs? My reading of the stories puts the Covenant before them, since the whole idea of the Covenant being a test-run makes any functional predecessors nonsensical. I suppose the argument could be made that The 13 are fundamentally different beings from the rest of Transformerdom - maybe even easier for Primus to create - and a test was still necessary to determine if he could make creatures that were fully mired in space-time. (Though the Covenant was still AWARE of multi-dimensional events, and in fact seemed to serve much the same purpose as The 13...)

But even that aside, there's still the practical notion that The 13 were created ''for'' Cybertron, and Cybertron didn't exist yet when the Covenant was created. So, that having been said, what's the evidence that The 13 are actually "original"?

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Basically: they aren't. If you include the Covenant, the Thirteen aren't the "original" Transformers at all, since they are necessarily predated by the Covenant for all the reasons you cite, as well as, inferentially, Primon and the Liege Maximo. Functionally, they are referred to as the "original thirteen" or "first thirteen" regardless of this, probably because not even Furman thinks about the Covenant when writing TF backstory. I think for logistical purposes it remains a useful name for them on this wiki - without it, they basically don't have any meaningful group name, and that's inconvenient - but I do think there should be some kind of indication in this article that some Transformers are more original than these fellows. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

== The Ancients ==

I'm not sure where to place it, so I put it here as, um, sorta reference. :) --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 08:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:In the original Japanese dub of "Galaxy Force", [[Vector Prime]] is depicted as one of "The Ancients".

:According to the background settings of ''Galaxy Force'' anime, "The Ancients" is the earliest Transformers in the world/continuity of "Galaxy Force" (not "Cyertron").

:Though "The Thirteen" is mentioned by [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html The World of Transformers], the site doesn't confirm that "The Thirteen = The Ancients" by far. What the site only mentioned is that there are two theories of the origin of Transformer race.

:So, by far, The Ancients is not the same group as The Thirteens, unless someday comes up an official information stating they are the same.
::Agreed. So shouldn't someone take the Logos Prime person off? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 17:26, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

== Logos Prime ==

He's in both the confirmed and possible lists. Which is it? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Magnus Maximus moved it to possible, Walky added to confirmed but didn't remove the possible, MM removed the duplicate in "confirmed", Walky blocked MM over it and readded it to "confirmed" while still leaving it in "possible". - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:12, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:: Argh, there's MORE stuff to change back? Is this the same dude we were reverting before? Some dude out there has a really serious hate-on for this Logos Prime thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Uhm... I don't think content was deleted here, just the "confirmed" status of Logos Prime questioned.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:14, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::What's left to confirm? The evidence is stacked up. Logos Prime would have to be the red herring of red herrings to not be what this wiki says, and that's kind of ridiculous. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Derik, what the hell. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:43, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Y'know, ''by definition'' if this 13 crap covers THEWHOLEENTIRETFMULTIVERSEBYE, then Macaddam should be in "confirmed"... :p - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Not in a story that is specifically stated to be non-canon, "just for fun." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:15, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::On a multiverse level, it's impossible NOT to be canon. Which is one of my major problems with this whole pile, actually. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::[[Author intent]] should be something this wiki describes and leaves up to individual fan judgment--not something we firmly take sides on in establishing internal-to-story facts. The entire reason we have articles for the "real" Transformer characters [[Geosensus]] and [[Paddles]] is that Cian's proviso is contradicted by the pre-existing context of a TF Multiverse, which I suspect he never knew existed. Having said that, Legends never actually specifically says Maccadam is one of the 13; it says he's multiversal, which fulfills ''half'' of the joke from the Ultimate Guide.<--Thy, can't login on IE.

So... MM moved the info (not '''deleted''' it, '''moved'''), Walky put the info back in the old place thus meaning the info was now put twice on the page, then banned MM because he removed one of the duplicate instances? Just making sure I got this straight. 
And no, MM is not the same guy we were reverting before. MM is the guy who's been adding a lot of valuable info like missing covers and stuff on the commercial bumper and scene transition pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:16, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, you got it straight. He originally blocked him for a month as "YOU ARE DELETING CONTENT RIGHT NOW", then cut it to a week as "It's not smart to get in a revert war with an admin." - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::Well, then, remind me never to correct any mistakes, because I apparently might get reverted and banned for it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::That occurred to me too... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:So the original change was related to the previous discussion on this talk page about the Ancients not being the same thing as the first Thirteen? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
::Correct. [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=301252&oldid=301026 MM edit 1 diff], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301252 Willis adds a duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301254 MM removes duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301257 Willis reverts previous edit]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:::Based on this, I'm going out on a limb here and unbanning the guy. Seems like a pretty draconian punishment over what appears to be mostly a misunderstanding. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:58, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, that was fun. Thanks for getting this situation sorted, guys. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 09:31, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

== Nexus Maximus ==

The five silhouettes next to Vector Prime seem to strongly resemble the individual components of Nexus Maximus, and since the five are both Transformers and part of a being considered "one of the thirteen", is it possible that they are numbered members as well? I mean, technically they are five transformers that were created in the first batch, so maybe?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I would say no. Nexus Maximus is a member of the 13, but his 5 component pieces aren't. [[Special:Contributions/76.240.201.195|76.240.201.195]] 18:39, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

==Defiance==
To be clear - is that image depicting the trans-dimensional whatsits, or the first batch of "Transformers" made to serve them?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
:The first batch of "Transformers." There are actually two more in a different panel but this was the best group shot. [[:Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|This is]] the creation of the trans-dimensional whatsits. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 07:50, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, then the text needs to make that clearer, because right now it reads as if it's equating these Seekers/Constructicons with the Fallen and such.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 17:42, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Trans-dimensional AllSpark creations ==

Zuh? Why not The Thirteen?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:Well, they aren't Transformers for one thing. They are a separate race. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:15, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::...but we have no reason to believe they're not The Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:16, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh. Hmmm. The 13 aren't Transformers? That article should be renamed then. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:20, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::The article is just... I don't know. I don't think it conveys information. I think if anything it ''obfuscates'' information to obey some sort of semantic point.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:24, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::They do play the same general role. It didn't occur to me that they might be the 13 since they aren't Transformers. The articles would have to be merged carefully. In the live-action continuity there is the Fallen's race ''and'' 13 original Transformers (which would be the first 13 beings of the new Transformer's race). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:41, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::You invented what amounts to a fan term to explain what you believe to be a contradiction. We are needlessly multiplying entities here.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::The Fallen: "It gave us workers, but they were ''not like us''. They were special and were to be the first of ''your race''. Creatures born with the ability to change their forms." It seems pretty clear the Fallen's kind aren't Transformers. The Fallen could be distorting the facts, I suppose (he is The Fallen), or has a fuzzy memory. I'm not against merging this with the 13 Transformers, but I would be interested in how it was explained. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:48, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I dunno, saying that the Fallen and his brothers "aren't Transformers" seems to me to be a bit like saying we shouldn't have [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] in the Female Transformers category. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 22:07, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::Hell, half the Matrix Guides, including Alpha Trion, shouldn't be considered Transformers! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:09, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::That doesn't seem to be a contradiction at all, Starfield. Even in the original continuity that had the thirteen, wasn't transformation an invention from later on? And Vector Prime still was eventually able to do it, so it's not unreasonable to assume that while the Trans-dimensionals weren't ''born'' with the ability to change their form, they modified themselves to do it. Which is why the Fallen can turn into a space fighter now.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:47, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I still propose nuking it, but until we get consensus on that, I'm putting the shenanigans tag on it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:54, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Call me crazy, but I have this feeling there may be an actual name for these dudes soon. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:08, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::And on what are you basing this? I keep asking this, but you keep making up unofficial terms for things.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:15, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::The ROTF adaptation comic. I understand we aren't supposed to use that yet for spoiler reasons. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:22, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Okay, let me spell this out. There is at present no definition of this term you've invented that does not completely overlap with the Thirteen. Every member of the Thirteen is one of these, and every one of these is one of the Thirteen. Even if we accept that this is somehow a meaningful term, there is no way to separate it from the Thirteen. To pretend otherwise is to be painfully obtuse.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Nuke it from orbit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:18, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:Y'all kinda seem to be jumping down Starfield's throat... IITC the Transdimensional beings page was created as a sorta precautionary things back then Alliance was still coming out when we weren't sure how it'd play out-- or even if the Fallen was a multiversal singularity. (We thought probably yes, but there was room foe debate, and the movie stuff IS '''awfully''' messy.)
:...of course it's just as likely that I'm missing something, in which case, please proceed tearing him a new transdimensional arsehole. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'd like a transdimensional arsehole. I bet it would mean you wouldn't even have to get up to go to the bathroom. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'm not taking it personally. It always was kind of a sloppy placeholder. I honestly thought they were going a different direction when I read Defiance 4, but now it looks like it is shaping up pretty good continuity wise. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:41, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's all well and good, but the article, as well as his defense of the term, continued long after its (however dubious) usefulness expired. So, I've nuked the article and archived the discussion here for posterity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:36, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh, is ''that'' what's going on? ''<tt>slowpoke.jpg</tt>''
::::Well, I've certainly been there myself! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:38, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

== Prima ==

Why is Prima on this list? I would have thought Primon would be the more likely choice m'self. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:01, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:He is confirmed in at least one continuity as the first Cybertronian. Thus, he's the first of the Thirteen. Funny, innit?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:03, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Which continuity, and sauce? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:45, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Marvel G1. Not explicitly stated, but able to be deduced.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::::But I don't think Prima should be on there. Primon seem to predate him/her.
::::If a guidebook SAID Prima was one of the 13 or something, that'd be different. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:22, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Well here's how it goes, we have a Marvel G1 issue and a Marvel G2 issue which depict the first Cybertronian. One of those issues depicts said first Cybertronian as the first Matrix-Bearer. Marvel G1 also has a litany of the Matrix-Bearers which the Creation Matrix itself recites at several times during Matrix Quest, thus establishing this figure, though visually quite different the two times we see him, as Prima. So, insofar as anything can be consistent within Marvel G1 given the vast artistic differences which sprang up, the first Cybertronian and first Matrix-Bearer is Prima.

Pri''mon'' however has a far more fuzzy pedigree, a smaller corpus of source material establishing him, and his membership in the Thirteen is also predicated upon the Liege Maximo being a member, which is ''probable'', but as we've discussed before never really confirmed in official source material.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:Your answer is full of fail and conjecture.
:Nevertheless, it got ''me'' to check the source material. The Ultimate Guide explicitly says Prima is one of the 13 on page 15. Further, Prima is their '''leader'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:40, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Were I not at work, I could have done the same. But alas, I am limited until I hop in my car and drive home. I still say my answer is close enough for government work, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:43, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
{{quote|In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.|Tocqueville}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
=="New Divide" video==
Hey, uh, there seems to be a very short clip of what appear to be silhouettes of some of the Thirteen... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:36, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:Which one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:51, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
::I wonder which one Vector Prime is! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:::So can any of our U.K. friends confirm or deny if these are indeed the Thirteen? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:13, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Weeellll... okay, spoilers to be safe... they ARE the Primes, the original Transformers, as it were. But... if I heard the dialogue right, and I'm not SWEARING that I did, but I have seen other people say they heard the same thing... IN the film itself... there are stated to only SEVEN of them. And the events of Defiance are really... at odds with the movie , too. In the gentlest terms. Honestly, I was watching the movie, and every so often something happened to make me go "Aw, fuck, the wiki's going to have its work cut out for it here." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, there's a mistake in there. Seven is definitely the number. The Fallen being so named because he chose to eradicate life in his quest for Energon (think Captain Ranson in Star Trek Voyager "Equinox"). Optimus Prime is apparently their last descendant (how they know this is not explained, nor is the concept of Primes, and why only a Prime can defeat the Fallen, when it looks like anybody can do what Prime finally did). Oh, and none of them look like any of our Primes. In fact they all look like the Fallen (customisers should be buying multiple Fallen toys to make them!) [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 20:05, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

:What a pain. Yet I think that will probably make patching things around the 13 easier.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:11, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::The only thing that would make this work with past information is if the Thirteen aren't multiversal singularities, and since the Powers That Be reconfirmed that at Botcon, I can only assume (or hope) that they have something planned for the Thirteen that will straighten this out. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:21, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::You have to remember, there's already the "oddity" that the birth of these guys 13 doesn't really match other depictions-- and the AllSpark being some sort of sun-destroying monstrosity is... not very Primus-y. I think there's definitely wiggle room here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:25, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oddly, the adaptations say 13. How do we know what we know about the AllSpark and harvesters and the original Transformers? There is only one of them left. He wouldn't lie for his own purposes would he? They could, if they wanted, make much of the ROTF backstory be a load of bullcrap made up by The Fallen. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:46, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Maybe we can wilfully ignore {{redact|the seven thing as a mistake like Brawl/Devastator? In the Feb 2009 issue of Toyfare, producer [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] stated that The Fallen was a member of The Thirteen, and that we should think of the Thirteen as "apostles". So clearly, the movie production did number the Primes as thirteen quite late into post production.}} --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::"Mistakes" do happen in fiction, and we acknowledge them as such. (The art errors in the marvel comic, for example.)
::::::So even if the {{redact|the ancient Primes being the 13}} is a mistake, that still leaves us with The Fallen being The Fallen.
::::::The real question is how ''subsequent'' fiction addresses this. If it keeps re-iterating {{redact|the ancient Primes are the 13}} then that's a problem we have to deal with.
::::::I'm really beginning to suspect that the end scenario is going to be {{redact|there were some ancient beings, 7 in one story, 13 in another}} and just void any connection to the 13 entirely-- then figure out how to deal with The Fallen being The Fallen separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Also, re:{{redact|Devastator... there was a comment on the Brawl talk page recently claiming that the letters page to Titan #3 said that Devastator and Brawl are separate near-identical Transformers.}} Can McSweeny confirm whether this is true or not? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

So I'm watching [http://emopanda.com/tmp/eps/Linkin_Park_-_New_Divide.mp4 New Divide] and I'm confused... is the screencap Walky posted above {{redact|from the beginning of the movie, where everyone was working in the valley, or the end, during SAM's NDE}}? Can someone who's seen the movie answer this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:20, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Haha, this is where it gets {{redact|metaphysical. Sam dies, and the Matrix (which at this point in the film has disintegrated into dust and is kept in a rolled up sock) merges with Sam. The next scene then features Sam in Heaven/The Matrix/Nirvana/The Tunnel with the Light at the End where he meets the Seven Prime/Fallen Clones. They tell him that they have been watching him and that the Matrix is not an object but a state of mind/personality quality, and he's got it, so go wake up from this death and kick some ass. He then is resurrected and the Matrix is now completely reformed into its key/boomerang formation, which he then sticks into Prime's chest. But then somebody else steals it again to stick into the Fallen's Galvatron Machine from the UK comics}} [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 08:04, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Yes I know this. I've read the book. I construe from your response that this screencap is from the latter half of the movie? (It's a yes or no question... god forbid you manage to ''explicitly'' answer it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's a yes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:52, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

It actually works out pretty easily. Those seven don't have to be the ''only'' members of the Thirteen, just the ones that gave their lives to seal The Fallen away and secure the Star Harvester.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Except there are multiple versions of "Movie" continuity (IDW and Titan) and the original 13 are singularities... so how do these 7 manged to die '''twice''' and their corpses show up in different universes? {{redact|for that matter, how does The Fallen manage to die in multiple continuities? He has but one life to give for the Multiverse!}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:24, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Transformers: The Movie Universe implies that The Fallen has to work to maintain corporeality in a universe. It is possible that killing the physical form of one of the Thirteen is nowhere near as final as it may sound.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:::Would Vector Prime's fate at the end of Cybertron support that? I have only passing knowledge of that show but didn't they show him fighting on in some other dimension after his "Death"? That could work on the same principle.--[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 07:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Vector Prime was shown to be fighting Galvatron in the end-credits montage, so he's clearly not completely dead. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:36, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I don't know about Galaxy Force, but in Cybertron, the speech that Vector Prime gave before he died made it sound like if he died in that universe, he would continue to exist in the multiverse but be barred from re-entering that particular universe.

== Logos Prime ==

If the Fallen represents Entropy, and Vector Prime represents time... what would Logos Prime represent? His hub-ship-thing seems to be tied to his "area of responsibility" somehow... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:55, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Opposition or competition? Some kind of "Balancing forces" deal, probably, judging by the story.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::So... "Logos" arguably, logic? 10:39, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think their given names actually have anything to do with their charge - Vector isn't in charge of directions, and Nexus is in charge of Energon, not connections. Maybe the name's are personally chosen, or represent their personalities?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 12:27, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Maybe LP would have been the gaurdian of knowlegde or information? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:03, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

== Twelve Apostles ==

Would it be at all acceptable to mention somewhere on the page the obvious basis of Jesus and the twelve apostles, or even how specific members of the Thirteen seem to be based on specific apostles?

For example:
*Prima is the chosen leader of the thirteen, carries Primus lifeforce in the form of the matrix (and so, is Primus's "child"), and his name even fits the ancient roman naming scheme for your children (well, daughters) - remove "us", fit "a".
*The Fallen is obviously Judas.
*Vector Prime appears to fit the role of Peter - the most loyal, who serves throughout time safeguarding the Transformers. He certainly acts like a space-pope, anyway.

Of course, beyond that, there's unlikely to be any use of the archetype, but would it at least be worth mentioning?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:We have a good source for that comparison with [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]]'s interview in ''Toyfare'' (February 2009). [[Special:Contributions/79.67.234.198|79.67.234.198]] 05:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:I say we don't have enought info though. Afterall, we don't know about the Logo Prime or Nexus Maximus people. --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 14:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::We know that the group as a whole is supposed to act as apostles to Primus. And yes, we can't really fit Logos or Nexus to a historical apostle, but we're extremely unlikely to, because beyond Jesus, Judas, and Peter, the various apostles are only really remembered for Catholic feast holidays, and aren't that culturally significant.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 14:22, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh,yeah...except for 'doubting Thomas'. OK --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
: I think pointing out the 12 disciples exclusively is kind of the wrong move to make at the outset. Group-of-13-and-one-betrays-them is a mythological constant. Like, say, Loki! He storms a group of 12 at Valhalla! It's linked into the superstition about the number 13, which is considered unlucky. Stories would use it for group numbers as foreshadowing! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::Except "Group of thirteen Apostles and one of them is a chosen son of the singular God" is not so much a mythological constant. Unless Zoroastrianism has it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:39, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

==Split 7 Primes from the 13==

There's really nothing to suggest in the film that the 7 are part of the original Transformers. They're just referred to as the leaders of the race. The Fallen's the only one clearly linked to the 13 [[User: Eire|Eire]] 23.58 June 23 09
: Maybe the missing 6 Primes are Vector Prime, Logos Prime, Nexus Prime, the Liege Maximo, Primon, and Some Other Dude, all having adventures elsewhere! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:46, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
::but how? the comic states that The Fallen killed them all so how can they be having adventures in other universes if they're truly omniversial or what ever the f**k they're supposed to be. Anyway I think the idea behind the 13 is crap anyway. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 04:03, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: It's been stated since the Dreamwave era that the original 13, save the Fallen, all died in an early battle with Unicron. And yet Vector Prime! (Who died but didn't.) And Logos Prime! And Nexus Maximus! Tales of these guys' deaths have been greatly exaggerated. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I found what the film states to be ambigious. It didn't say "there were 7 Primes, and that's all that ever existed." --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:14, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: Jetfire said there were 7 Primes leading, and one went bad. I'm not saying that they're the only ones because clearly they weren't (Sentinel and Optimus get a mention after all) but conceptually there seems to be a difference between the 13 originals and just 7 powerful Primes. Apart from the Fallen, it just seems to be a concept loosely connected at best [[User:Eire]] 12.40 June 24th 09

I think we'd be best served, at least, creating a "see main article" for the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and discussing the characters there. Not necessarily splitting it, and certainly merging it back in if any ancillary material clarifies the matter, but we're probably not helping any newbies who have just seen the film and want to read about these characters (if you could go so far as to call these non-entities that), only to wind up deeply confused over why we're insisting there are 13 of them and that they didn't turn in a tomb and such. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

== So They're not all Primes! ==

According to the Hasbro Q&A they are not all Primes, only 7 are. How do we reconsile that with the opening quote. I mean I get it's a retcon but how do we explain it in a sensible ay on this page? Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:35, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:Where were all 13 called "Primes"? Also, from the answer, it seems Hasbro is calling them "The 13". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:40, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

<blockquote style="background:white; padding:1em; border:1px solid #999;">
{{quote|We are the 13, the first, the forgotten, each of us serving a function vital to the survival of the universe. '''Each of us designated a ''Prime''''' and given a function to serve during the long march of infinity.|Vector Prime|"[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]"}}
</blockquote>

::Read the opening quote on this page, Starfield. Actual story material > Q&A answers, in my view. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

::::I vote for "Actual story material > Q&A answers", too. Sometimes I just think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers. By the way, there are only four confirmed members of the The Thirteen, and I don't consider Seven Prime equal The Thirteen despite what Hasbro say, since their origins are quite and obvious different. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:10, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::"Sometimes I think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers"? You do realize that [[Forest Lee]] is both the writer of that Vector Prime: In the Beginning quote and the guy who answers the fiction-related answers for the Q&As? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:03, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yes, I know. Well, I admit I wrote the above too soon (due to the rush of breakfast) and a bit emotional. Of course I didn't mean all of them(the answers, not the answerer), just some of the answers make me have such feeling like this. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:29, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::I don't know. Our criteria for what is canon is "anything that Hasbro approves" since they are the ultimate authority for cannonicity if they come right out and say (As they now have) only 7 of "The Thirteen" were Primes the other 6 were not than that retcon would be the new cannon I think. Especially since it "kinda" patches an existing continuity glitch. Now I admit that claim will be stronger when Hasbro actually releases some story covering this period as they just said they will be doing shortly somehow. But even without that it is a retcon and official I'd say. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:52, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::Hey! I completely missed the quote. I was looking for a citation somewhere. I agree that story > answers. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:07, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Offhand, I'd say that the notion of the "Seven Primes" as opposed to the Thirteen showed up waaaaaaaaay late in the final drafts of Revenge of the Fallen, and thus too late for the adaptations to incorporate it. After all, they even were working up CGI models for all of the Thirteen. It is entirely possible that this change blindsided even Hasbro, and thus they're trying to spackle it up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

I really kinda disagree with reverting the article to the pre-Hasbro-retcon state, as I think it's puting too little weight on Hasbros statement of what is the "truth". But I'm willing to let it go for now, since Hasbro seems to have plans to bring this all to the fore with some sort of fictional spotlight in the near future, we can deal with making the necessary changes when and if that material materializes. :) --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 22:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

== Female 13 member ==
OK. As of a day or two ago, Hasbro says that one of the 13 is female. Boards are already complaining that this messes with established continuity (IDW, Marvel comics). I'm not convinced this is a huge problem, but it does occur to me that, at the moment, there is no canon to support this claim. Only Hasbro's Q&A response, which might be argued as [[authorial intent]] or [[pseudocanon]]. As something not yet confirmed in canon (but only signaled as possible for the future), should it be included here at this time?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 14:52, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

== "Original Epic Warriors"? ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63609] --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 26 November 2009 (EST)

==A Math Joke?==
I've been studying for the GRE, so excuse my nerdiness as a result of quantitative overload: if we go with the Hasbro Q&A response, there are 7 Primes out of 13 original transformers... there are six prime numbers in the set of thirteen positive integers: '''2, 3, 5, 7, 11,''' and '''13''' itself. In addition, a prime number can only be divided by itself or '''1''', making a total of seven mathematical prime-related numbers. It might be assuming too much of Hasbro to consider this a deliberate gag for the nerdiest fans, but if it's a just a coincidence, it's a strange one... should this be noted in the article? [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)
:Exploring that more; [[Prima]] is the '''first''' transformer (and despite bearing the Matrix, is not ''named'' "Prime", but might ''be'' one?), [[Nexus Prime|Nexus Prime]] is made of '''five''' parts, and we also know of [[Logos Prime|Logos Prime]] and [[Vector Prime]], and [[the Fallen]] was a Prime before he... fell. Have any number-related concepts been tied to those last three? I want to assume the Fallen was the '''thirteenth''' of the originals, being furthest from his creator's original design as the last of the batch, and due to the negative connotations of the number; and a ''vector'' can be defined as the course or direction of movement between '''two''' points. [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)

== Exodus Info ==

'''SPOILERS for TF Exodus'''

So Exodus gives us two or three new names for members of the Thirteen.

First there's Megatronus. This is very strongly implied to be the Fallen's original name. But it is still just implied from what I could see. They never come right out and talk about the 13 backstory at length and say the Fallen is Megatronus it just sorta makes the most sense for him to be, given what they do say, if you know the story. So how official do we want to treat that connection?

Second there's Alpha Trion. There's been a lot of chatter that certain stories (especially his evil SG counterpart) breaks the whole "Multiversal Singularity" thing if he's a 13er which he now is. Do we need a note to that effect.?

Lastly is the most questionable case. After talking about Megatronus as a legend at one point a character then mentions Leige Maximo in the next breath as the same type of legendary figure. This could be read as placing him as a 13er as well, but it's never explicately stated clearly. Does it deserve a note, at least in the potential area?

Thoughts?
--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:51, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:Megatronus? I can just imagine the millions of potential joke opportunities that this name comes with.
:Sorry. Anyway, we should have a note next to the Fallen's listing in the confirmed 13ers category saying "Look, his name may or may not be Megatronus." or something to that effect.
:A3 is a huge continuity headache, and we should probably be careful. So, yes, we should definitely have a note.
:And finally, the Liege Maximo isn't ''that'' questionable, but we should keep him in the "possible 13ers" category until other fiction appears and confirms or disproves that.

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:23, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

:(Purely personal speculation) I think Megatronus might be Liege Maximo's original name. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:08, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::As I'm not very familiar with most of the fictions, is there any reason "the Fallen" and "Liege Maximo" couldn't be the same guy? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:13, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::One of them is not on fire and doesn't exactly seem to serve Unicron? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:16, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Has LM ever been in the same story as Unicron? The fire thing seems very minor. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:25, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::LM does sort of resemble an overweight ROTF The Fallen. A little bit. If Megatronus were Liege Maximo, "Megatronus" would be his name, not his "original" name, since "Liege Maximo" is a title. To answer your question, Unicron was quite dead when we first meet Liege Maximo, and there isn't really room in the story for them to have met off-panel in the past. The Fallen and Liege Maximo aren't remotely the same character, but I suppose that could always be retconned. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:01, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Fallen - name forgotten, created alongside first Primes, founder of Decepticons, purged of morality
::::::Liege Maximo - name unknown, created alongside first Prime, ancestor of Decepticons, ultimate evil
::::::Sounds more than remotely similar to me. But I'm not saying it's true, just an idea that bounced around in my head. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:20, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Also no room in ~13.7 billion years for them to have met off panel? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:39, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::Megatronus Prime is '''NOT''' the Liege Maximo. We know that for sure as they're named one after the other as seperate beings at one point. And we know for SURE that Megatronus is one of the 13. The info the book gives makes suuggestions that make it VERY, VERY likely he is the Fallen, they just don't say it out bluntly. So Megatronus should get a "confirmed" entry even if we're not going to make the (certainly intended) leep and connect the two. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:43, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::That's the thing with myths and legends, one being can become split into multiple characters or multiple characters get merged into one with retellings. Just because there are separate legends Megatronus and Liege Maximo doesn't mean that further developments won't reveal them to be the same being. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:49, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::That's irrelevant. Unless there's "anything" to suggest it at all in the Canon, it's just "making stuff up" and has no place on this wiki, which is what we're discussing. There's nothing in the book that in any way even hints of hinting that MP might be the LM, where there are lots of clearly very intentional details linking him to The Fallen.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:00, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Oh, I thought you were responding to TX55's clearly labeled "purely personal speculation". I had no intention of anything I said being put in the article. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:04, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

== Toy Section ==

Should it stay or go? If it stays do we list EVERY toy of EVERY one of the Original 13? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:10, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:I'm for just excising it entirely. It's not exactly a toy gimmick like other subgroups are, and anybody who's interested in the toys can just scoot over to the characters' pages. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:50, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::That's what I was thinking, I just wanted to bring it up before slashing it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

==Alpha Trion==
I'd also note that we need to add Alpha Trion to the confirmed members. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:24, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:Doesn't that mean that we need to combine all the [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]] articles? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:30, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::I don't know. It kind of makes my brain hurt. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:35, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::The thing about Alpha Trion is, he really is the same basic character in every universe. "Wise Ancient Autobot closely connected to Vector Sigma and/or records of Cybertronian history". Except for that one where he's a murdering looney. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:41, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::The murdering looney is just the inversion of his resurrecting Prime and Elita (and maybe Magnus). Healer and killer are moral opposites. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:47, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::If the Thirteen travel between the various universes, I ''suppose'' it's possible that the weight of knowing everything that was or will be, in ''each and every universe'' eventually pushes Trion over the edge.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:49, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Didn't somebody say that the universe they were in could affect a singularity? I just figured this was an example of that. AT in the negative polarity universe exhibits inverted morality. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:54, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::SG Alpha Trion was the same in the TransTech universe. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Yeah, he was batslag and scheming during his time in Axiom Nexus, just better at hiding it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::I'm sure there's enough wiffle-waffle in Forest Lee's bullshit-fu answer to the multiversal singularity question to cover it. Maybe this is just one iteration of Trion when he is a "quantum event", playing out the potential question of "What if dude was evil?" until it eventually collapses and reverts. Or something. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:58, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Actually, to throw another kink into things, Animated Alpha Trion is not a historian, has no connection to any Vector Sigma, and indeed Wyatt, at least, says Animated has no multiversal singularity anything in it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Authorial intent can be overruled by the iron fist of Hasbro. If Hasbro says Alpha Trion is always a historian with a connection to Vector Sigma who exists in all universes, then Wyatt be slagged, that's what he is. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|22:53, 27 June 2010}}
::::::Sorry, but for me authorial intent can only be overruled by later canon fiction in the exact same continuity, not by a completely different continuity written by someone with no connection to the other one. Especially since changing Alpha Trion's role or adding in Vector Sigma where it doesn't exist would be changing actual ''canon'' as well, not just authorial intent.
::::::(Plus, if Hasbro actually wanted to wield its iron fist, they would have enforced the singularities being written into Animated in the first place.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Thing is, Animated continuity by itself (completely ignoring the words of Wyatt and Isenberg) doesn't create any mutual exclusivities because it didn't take a side either way. Hasbro didn't put down it's iron fist because they didn't need to yet.[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 00:53, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Except that if Hasbro wanted the singularities in Animated, then Isenberg and Wyatt would not be saying those things at all to begin with, since they wouldn't be the case. (Or they'd at the very least be saying "We didn't want to, but Hasbro made us" or something.) Plus, the Allspark and no Vector Sigma contradict Primus and the VS Gestalt, at least.
::::::::(I've never ever understood why the wiki is 95% sticklers for canon, except for this one case, where suddenly fanwank speculation and authorial intent (from authors who aren't even involved with the continuities in question, to boot) suddenly reigns supreme, sometimes even over actual canon.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Seriously? You're saying that Hasbro's official call on the matter ''isn't'' canon? You're not making sense here. A3 being one of the 13 is not fanwank speculation, and it looks like to me you're misunderstanding the definition of authorial intent. Wyatt and Isenberg's opinion doesn't matter because it didn't make it into the actual fiction, and it wasn't going to, because it undermines the multiversal (with singularities) framework that Hasbro is finally getting to brass tacks on. And let's face it, backpedaling at the point they are at right now isn't a good idea by any stretch of the standard. Hasbro never commented on Wyatt/Isenberg's idea because it wasn't an issue yet, more of a "well, we'll let them think so for the time being, until the fiction actually gets to that point".[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 02:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Derrick Wyatt also said, on several occasions, that as far as he is concerned there are no Primus and Unicron in the Animated universe. And I'm afraid his opinion doesn't count there, since the multiversal god conceit predates his work and is much bigger than it. As I end up pointing out here semi-regularly, authors have gotten stuff wrong before and we just mark it down as a trivia note. --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.134.205|74.73.134.205]] 14:39, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::So, a tiny mention of an idea in a completely different and unrelated continuity that's already been explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities, somehow counts more than actual canon fiction AND the word from someone who directly worked on a continuity and knows for a fact what the writers actually intended for it. Especially seeing as how even Furman, who ''invented'' Primus and Unicron, was explicitly going to write them out of IDW as well.
::::::::::::...OK, man, if believing something that illogical makes you happy, more power to you, I guess. Me, I don't presume to think I know better than the creators themselves when it comes to what is and isn't in their work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Animated A3 behaves no differently from every other version we've ever seen. They're all eccentric but basically normal-seeming old dudes who have hints of great influence and age. Been that way ever since KtVS. ''Exodus'' comes out and says that this normal-seeming-eccentric-old-dude does indeed have great age and great influence. What is the difference now? They're just firmly putting boundaries on all the hints we've gotten for 25 years. From a story perspective there is nothing wrong with it at all; is the only problem really that the writer of this particular series said otherwise?
:::::::::::::Hasbro is the biggest of the creators, bigger than any individual writer, so if you're going to cite this or that intention / Word Of God, it's just going to be a self-defeating exercise. "A tiny mention" in any story at all is a heck of a lot more than we ever got of "no Unicron in Animated / IDW", since none of that was ever officially published at all. And what was "explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities"? The original 13 must, by definition, apply everywhere. The multiverse conceit has been solidly established since 2003 and all those stories were vetted by Hasbro; some were even written by Hasbro (as has been mentioned here already). Neither Wyatt nor Furman nor anybody else can "intend" their way out of it. Larry DiTillio "intended" for the Vok to have created sparks and for Transformers' after-death dimension to be the Vok's Nexus Zero. This, too, is now flatly impossible noncanon, as too many rigid rules explicitly contradicting it have been published for too many years. This is what happens when your franchise sets down explicit omnipresent rules for a multiversal origin: they are, by definition, bigger than everything else. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:45, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I've already covered this. What one continuity does has nothing to do with what any other continuity does. FunPub is its own continuity. Exodus is apparently the new WFC/Prime continuity. In no other case do we ever declare what happened in one continuity has overwritten another continuity's canon, or let one continuity's author's intent overwrite another continuity's author's intent, so I don't know why this is different. (And, FunPub is no more "Hasbro" writing fiction than IDW is Hasbro writing fiction, the movie team is Hasbro writing fiction, the cartoon teams are Hasbro writing fiction, etc. They're all contracted to write fiction on behalf of Hasbro.)
::::::::::::::Sinclair explicitly stated that the Movieverse is outside of the multiverse established in FunPub fiction. Hasbro's approved a lot more continuities contradicting the idea than they have ones that do. And we've never heard word from Hasbro yet on the matter, so there's no reason yet to discount the authorial intent of the actual creators because there's no official word or canon yet to contradict them.
::::::::::::::So, no, the whole multiversal singularity idea has not been "solidly established" at all. Exactly the contrary, in fact. Maybe at some point we'll actually get official confirmation from someone at Hasbro who works with more than one continuity, or some actual fiction that explicitly takes place in each continuity that writes the matter in, and then I'll say "OK" because then there'll be actual support for the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::FunPub stories written by Forest Lee are absolutely more "Hasbro writing the fiction" than IDW, the movies, or the cartoons. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:42, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Well, you know. Except for the whole fact that FunPub stories have been stated to not apply to every universe, and Forest Lee (AFAIK) has zero to do with writing the other continuities, and it's wiki policy to consider as everything equally canon.
::::::::::::::::Especially when we're talking stories that take place in a venue that hardly anybody reads vs. more mainstream venues. I fail to see how you can even think Lee's fiction is supposed to have these big, sweeping changes to the brand when only a tiny handful of people have even heard about/read it, and probably almost none of Hasbro's target demographic. How can something that barely anyone knows about be as important as you claim?
::::::::::::::::Maybe the current fiction ''will'' actually finally firmly establish the singularity as applying to every continuity in venues where everyone can actually see it. But until that time... I love FunPub's continuity, but the fact is that it's just one continuity out of many, and it's one almost nobody reads to boot. Treating it as more important than everything else just because the wiki's (understandably) biased towards it is ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Look, you can't say "Hasbro never said this", and then when shown they did, retort with a "well, then it doesn't matter." I have no idea what Pete Sinclair thinks he is saying, as it was pointed out to him in that same Allspark thread that the Movie storyline has a multiversal stream assignment, and he's all like "yeah, but it's not in the multiverse". Once again that is a case of individual authors not being able to "break" foundational facts that have a broader scope than their own stories--and they sure can't ''THINK'' their way into breaking them without ever even bothering to put it to pen and expect it to have any validity outside their own greymatter. Come on, if you're going to dismiss FP's story material because it's so obscure and little-known, that explicitly discredits all author intent ever, which is orders of magnitude more obscure and unknown and was never even official in the first place. A Hasbro comic book with any circulation sure outranks some guy's Twitter following. The very idea of "stating certain stories not to apply" is rampant author-intentism--in this case favoring the intent of Sinclair over Lee ''in the exact same continuity and medium''. I will never view it as a valid argument. You are right to point out that this wiki treats all publications as canon. Animated A3 not-being one of the 13 was never published and is not canon. Ditto for the oxymoronic notion that the movie universe--or ANY universe--would not be part of the multiverse. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:35, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::I can say that "Hasbro has never said this" because they haven't. Meanwhile, Sinclair, who's one of FunPub's '''managing editors''' (not "just" a writer) and thus knows what FunPub fiction does and doesn't cover and affect, has said something. Yes, I'm favoring Sinclair over Lee in the same medium, the same way that what Andy Schmidt or Tipton says goes over any individual IDW writer.
:::::::::::::::::::As for authorial intent, we add it on as Trivia notes whenever it doesn't contradict actual canon. The funny thing is, the idea of the Movies and Animated being in the multiverse is equally as much authorial intent. And since it's from an author who doesn't even write or have anything to do with the Movie or Animated fiction, that means it carries even less weight than the usual authorial intent. And seeing as how Movie fiction outright contradicted IN CANON the idea of the 13 being the same as every other universe...
:::::::::::::::::::As for anything in FunPub continuity meaning anything outside of FunPub continuity itself, see Jackpot's 100% correct note below which sums up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Nobody outside of the hardcore fans even knows about FunPub's continuity, let alone considers it anywhere near enough important to overwrite the main continuities, and that includes FunPub's own editor and the people writing the main continuities. It's only oxymoronic if you give the FunPub continuity an importance it never had in the first place, and if you don't realize that what was retconned once (if you accept the multiversal retcon) can very very easily be retconned again.
:::::::::::::::::::And there is no "Hasbro's comic books". There's IDW's comic books and FunPub's comic books. In fact, to be perfectly technical, FunPub explicitly '''does not''' have a comic book license from Hasbro! They're only allowed to produce a magazine and the BotCon convention comics. So really, claiming they're "Hasbro's comic books" is doubly wrong. IDW is--by '''license'''--Hasbro's comic book company, not FunPub. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::To be fair, I'd like to say something in defense of Thy's side of the debate: We're all trying to free our arguments from the taint of authorial intent, and I think that's part-and-parcel with a Platonic ideal of continuity that underlies our whole endeavor here. This is the notion that, stripped of all real-world references, there's a pure-fiction world where we can treat all of these stories as "real" events in a multiverse as internally consistent as actual reality. We all know this is an impossible vision, but it's there under the surface nonetheless (consider how our default writing style is to present the fiction as primary fact and relegate the real-world facts to "Trivia"). Hand-in-hand with that ideal is the discounting of any given story's real-world influence and fame. Ideally, we don't play favorites; in fact, elevating the obscure is a point of pride. And from this stripped-down, egalitarian view, what do we see? One universe is acknowledging the multiverse and making grand statements about it, while most of the rest stay basically agnostic. From an entirely in-fiction perspective, how do we deal with that, especially when those grand statements sometimes seem at odds with how other universes present themselves? Our current consensus (and I think Thy's answer, even if he hasn't approached it from exactly this direction) is to play along, to accept in-universe multiversal claims as-is, even if that means allowing other universes to get pushed around. I can understand this view; there's an appealing simplicity to it. But I'm more inclined towards Jeysie's view, which is that we should document the FunPub multiversal claims but not let them dictate our entire presentation. The result would be a little paradoxical on the surface, since the same article might have to talk about a character as both a singularity and as having multiple incarnations. But I think it can be done, and it's more true to our everything-is-canon maxim. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:21, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::Again, I think you summed up some of my own thoughts well. I'm not trying to ''discount'' the FunPub fiction; it's ''equally as'' valid a continuity as any other. I just disagree with us treating it as ''more'' canon than every other continuity, to the point where not only is FunPub fiction retconning canon in other continuities accepted, but we don't accept the notion of newer fiction in turn retconning the older FunPub fiction.
:::::::::::::::::::::Basically, there is a multiverse in FunPub's storylines, but there may or may not be a multiverse in any other storylines. So long as you accept the storylines as all being separate from a real-world perspective, this isn't really that hard to wrap one's mind around. What the writer for one universe chooses to include in their work has no bearing on what the writer for a separate universe chooses to include in ''their'' work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:50, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::Pretty much. I developed my own view of continuity in the old days of ATT, when Raksha and Skyflight were doing their level best to drive wedges between G1 and the hated BW. I think it was in the "Star Drive"/"Nemesis" debate that it occurred to me that the best way to look at continuity between series is as moving ever forward, never backward. From the perspective of the G1 'toon, the Decepticon ship actually has no name, though "Star Drive" is a valid possibility. And now that that series is over, nothing can ever settle the question; the absence of evidence is in fact its canon. Of course, the BW 'toon adapted bits of the G1 'toon into its own backstory and gave the 'Con ship a name, which is perfectly canon for that enlarged perspective. Likewise, BW established a kind of afterlife called "the other side of the Matrix", and then BM clarified it as the "Allspark" with its own properties. From the perspective of BW, the Allspark isn't actually canon, but from the perspective of BM-plus-BW-as-its-backstory, it is. And so on. When we get to FunPub, we find a continuity that actually incorporates ''every other continuity'' into its cosmology and makes declarations about them. Which is all fine and good, and those declarations are canon from the FunPub-plus-everything-else perspective... but look at any of those everything-elses from their own perspectives, and the retcons are no longer canon.
::::::::::::::::::::::I've seen that view expressed in debates here before, but seldom. I think there's a philosophical divide among editors here, and the current dominant side believes that the perspective of the Wiki should be from the top of the retcon chain, which determines our presentation of everything else. I take a more bottom-up approach; in fact, the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]] article is an excellent demonstration of how I prefer things. I'd much rather see how an idea has evolved from series to series than see everything made to conform to the latest evolution.
::::::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 14:28, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::::What about the "Star Drive"? Was that a name pulled from the dialog? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, in "[[Microbots]]", when Scavenger is scanning the ground for traces of the ship, he says something about locating the "star drive." In all likelihood this meant the ship's engine, but one day the late ATT gadfly Skyflight announced that he had decided it was the true name of the ship, contrary to BW's claims. The usual chaos ensued. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:12, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, I think my approach can be classified as the "bottom-up" approach as well. I prefer to just state canon as much as-is as possible (with the occasional authorial note where it clarifies canon without contradicting it), and let the reader make up their mind for themselves how to fit it all together. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Where/when have the FP stories been stated to not apply to every universe? Just out of curiosity. I hadn't heard this before.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:51, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Sinclair mentioned on the Allspark that [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=64273&view=findpost&p=1388259 "Movie continuity is outside the multiverse."]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:58, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::That's.... very interesting to know. I think it's a perfect illustration of Jeysie's point, too: While Forest Lee may be the closest thing we have to the Mouth of Sauron, in every practical way his voice has been a squeak. He's no George Lucas, and if his multiversal-singularity foundation has really been so solidly established since 2003, then why didn't Orci and Kurtzman conform to it? Why did Pete have to hand-wave their work away? Because until possibly - ''possibly'' - now, the people who actually MATTER at Hasbro haven't given two shits about this level of continuity. And pretending like we can apply a Lucas-level primacy to the FunPub work has been and probably always will be an endless source of headaches, since other creators will keep blithely making square pegs that we bend ourselves over backwards trying to fit into Forest's round hole. (Uh.... that wasn't supposed to sound so filthy.) (Okay, it wasn't at first, but then I admit I kind of ran with it.)
:::::::::::::::::::Anyway, as to the matter at hand, I'm in favor of patience. Also of doing our damnedest to separate what's actually in the fiction from what's been said elsewhere. As others have mentioned, it's possible that the Exodus 13 aren't actually singularities, or maybe more than one being in the multiverse happens to be named "Alpha Trion"... Let's wait and see how the WFC/Exodus/Prime universe unfolds.
:::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:50, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Thank you... that more or less sums up how I feel in a nutshell, better than I have so far. I mean, I hate sounding like I'm running down FunPub or Lee because I like their stuff, but... up until now I just don't see it as being the driving force some folks seem to wish it is, when you actually look outside the circle of us hardcore fans. We keep giving Lee and FunPub an importance that, when it comes to how things have actually worked in a practical sense, they just do not have.
::::::::::::::::::::So, I'd rather wait to see which way Hasbro is gonna bounce... whether it's retconning the retcon and letting the continuities (seemingly) continue to do what they will or won't regards the matter, or changing to making a firm and noticeable statement in favor of the matter outside of a single obscure continuity. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::I consider actual fiction canon, then authorial intent from the people who actually wrote the fiction for things that don't contradict canon. And the fact that Trion is not a historian and there's no Vector Sigma IS canon for Animated. Like I said, if Hasbro actually cared about the matter they could very very easily have made Isenberg write something in somewhere and removed all doubt, or told the creators to stop making untrue statements.
::::::::::Plus, it's not the existence of the 13 that's the problem, it's the idea of the singularity nonsense that's the problem. So far Hasbro's ''never'' said a single thing about that. All the info has been about ''the 13'' and has been related to TF: Prime; I haven't heard anything about singularities, unless there's BotCon news that wasn't reported.
::::::::::(And "official call" makes no sense. If anything, the opposite: all we've gotten is from FunPub fiction/writers, and FunPub's editor flatly said that the Movieverse, at least, is separate from FunPub's take. Meanwhile, IDW, the Movies, and Animated all have canon and statements flatly going against the singularity, and Hasbro's current statements have been about TF: Prime, not TF as a whole. So I don't get why people claim Hasbro's pushing the singularity when I've never seen a statement from them about it and they keep approving fiction that contradicts it.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:36, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Here's the problem. Hasbro HAS said officially that all the 13 are Multiversal Singularities. And they HAVE said A3 is a 13er. That's canon. That's what the wiki needs to go by. Nothing personal, but it doesn't matter what you personnally think about Authoral Intent. How like canon you make it in your own mind/fanon. That is NOT canon. It can be interesting. It can be worth mentioning on the wiki. But it is NOT CANON until it appears officially approved by Hasbro somwhere. So going by what's official the pages really need to be merged. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 06:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::No, they have not said that. The only thing I've ever seen about multiversal singularities has, like I said, come from FunPub writers and fiction. And, like I said, it's been stated directly by FunPub that at least one continuity is separate from what FunPub does. Like I also said, everything Hasbro has said about the Thirteen has only mentioned a single continuity: Exodus/TF: Prime; they haven't said the Thirteen are singularities. And, like I also also said, it's not just authorial intent but actual canon in the fiction that has contradicted the singularity idea. Fiction that was approved by Hasbro, I might add.
:::::::::::::It's you folks claiming that Hasbro is supposedly pushing the singularity that are ignoring canon and what Hasbro actually has and hasn't said. Not only that, but you are actually also going by authorial intent. In fact, you're being worse about it than I am, since you're going by authorial intent of people who have nothing to do with writing the continuities in question!
:::::::::::::So, to the contrary, going by what's official there's no reason to merge at all. Trion is a Thirteener in some continuities, yes, but that's it.
::::::::::::: When Hasbro actually comes out and says that the Thirteen are singularities and we see some actual mainstream fiction saying so--and Hasbro made the effort to explain that Zeta Prime was "Sentinel Zeta Prime", so we ''know'' they'll speak up when they actually do have problems--then I'll concede the point. Until then, all canon, official evidence, and authorial intent from the actual continuity writers, that I've seen is to the contrary, which is why the wiki's stance bugs me so much. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 09:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Jeysie, you do realize that when we're saying "Hasbro", we're basically saying "Forest Lee", right? The guy who wrote both the FunPub coimcs and bios dealing with the singularity thing, and is also Hasbro's bio-writer. And who answered the Q&A question about singularities. Lee saying it is "Hasbro" saying it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:59, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::And again, FunPub's come out as saying their fiction doesn't apply to at least one universe. And 99.9% of the time we don't let toy bios override the actual fiction, so I'm not sure why this case is different.
:::::::::::::::To me "Hasbro saying it" equals someone like Archer, who deals with more than just a single company's continuity or toy blurbs that often don't match up with actual fiction anyway. The whole Sentinel/Zeta Prime thing, for instance, was (AFAIK, correct me if wrong) commented on by an overseeing Hasbro person, rather than by a writer who writes for a continuity entirely separate from WFC's. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Did Hasbro know that that was the author's intent? If they never specifically mentioned those ideas, Hasbro would not have known "to put their foot down". I don't know one way or the other, but that is an unspoken assumption in your argument that needs to be examined. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:07, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I find it hard to believe that they had no clue what someone like Isenberg was planning on doing with the fiction. Especially when they've been shown to be perfectly picky about any number of minor details in the fiction, so why would they fail to worry about major ones? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Contrary to what you think, Vector Sigma DOES exist in Animated continuity (even according to Wyatt!). Read A3's Animated page. It's there. If you're going to argue a point, at least research it first. - [[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 10:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Again, like I said, it's not the Thirteen specifically that's the problem, it's the singularity that's the problem. There's no issue with the Thirteen existing in a continuity (any more than any other character the writers want to have existing in a continuity), it's the idea that they're some singularity that has to exist always in the same way that's the sticking point.
:::::::::Vector Sigma can exist in Animated all he wants; that doesn't prove anything except that he exists and can travel between dimensions (which is true of plenty of characters who aren't Thirteen members or singularities, so that doesn't say much on its own). And heck, Animated Alpha Trion may even be part of the Animated Thirteen for all we know--he's just not a singularity as far as Animated is concerned. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:43, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::This is probably the one thing that confuses me about the Thirteen; are they singularities in the sense that Unicron is (there's only one, and they can travel between dimensions at will), or like how Primus is (there's only one, and they exist simultaneously at all times in every universe)? That writeup that Forest did is so quantumy that I can read it either way.

:::::::: IIRC, "A3 is one of the Thirteen" is originally a speculation (or, at least, not official) until the publication of ''Exodus''. Also, I think I agree with Jeysie's argument/point. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:48, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

Considering Lee wrote Reunification, as well as the bio for Nexus Prime and the tidbits about Alpha Trion helping split up Prima's sword? Yeah, I'd wager Lee has an explanation for this waiting in the wings. I can't imagine he wasn't already planning for this at that time.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:03, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:Yeah, absolutely. There is very obviously something ''big'' planned for the Thirteen, and has been for some time, but they're either taking their time very deliberately and building slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly, or they can't quite find the right venue for the story. I can't think of a ''worse'' way to do it than through IDW, so I was quite glad when I heard that idea had been scrapped after it became "more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing", but it seems like something that needs more exposure than just a fanclub comic, so... I'm talking like I'm on a message board, so I'll stop. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:09, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Considering this from a wiki standpoint, I'll just say that this takes us into ''tremendously'' fertile territory for bi-monthly Q&A submissions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:11, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::I guess the problem with merging is that we first have to find out if there one, even is an explanation, and two, what said explanation is. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Unless Alpha Trion is just like Vector Prime in some way, or an explanation like the ''ROTF'' Fallen, but I'll hate it if that becomes true. What I worry is that if we ask in Q&A, will they made a explanation in rush? Or should we find a way to ask the writer(s?) of ''Exodus''? --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:57, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::I see it the other way, merge the articles with a note that the explanation is unclear and fill in the explanation later. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 22:55, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::What Hasbro says, goes. Whatever anyone else says is a trivia note at best if it conflicts with Hasbro. I say we merge, since that's the official word, with a note explaining that the merger has a few weird issues and we don't have an official explanation yet.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:15, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::: My thing is, until we have some clear idea how it all fits together structure-wise, trying to merge everything is going to be one very long pile-on mess. Especially when we try to write up how to reconcile SG and Animated Alpha Trions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::: I vote for note vote until we get a clear explanation. However, if possible, I do consider using subpages if confirmed because there are a big divergence between all Alpha Trion. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 23:22, 27 June 2010 (EDT)



::::::::Tx? What does that mean? Anyway, I don't really see the issue. They get a write-up on what they did in each continuity under the correct header in "Fiction" and the section starts with a continuity note that says "This doesn't seem to fit with the nature of the character as dictated by Hasbro, but who knows the conflict may be explained away in the future." Boom. Where's the "complications"? Kinda how the Sunbow Toon is handled in the Unicron and Primus articles.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:26, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::: (COming in kinda late but...) I also vote on just waiting this out for a bit... It's not even that big of a deal if you ask me. Any author could just come along and make up an easy explanation to solve this problem. Even I can do it, watch: "Eons ago, A3 split himself from a singularity into a multitude of individuals to better understand non-singularity beings blah blah blah blah..." When you read mystery fiction, do you just flip out when something doesn't add up and confuses you? No, you keep on reading, and odds are by the end of the story, something comes up and makes you say "oh! It all makes sense now!" --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yeah. Considering we're usually patient, I don't see a problem with just waiting until we get a clear idea of things. We can always just stick a message box at the top saying that we think they all need a merge, but we're waiting on the matter.
::::::::::(Heck, for all we know, it'll end up being canon that, like you say, he's actually a ''split'' singularity that's deliberately many separate individuals who are all part of the same, uh, personality gestalt. In which case merging might not make sense after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:14, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::If we stick a very clear, unambiguous message that these should probably be merged at the top of the pages I would have no problem with waiting a reasonable time period before merging. It should not be hidden down at the bottom in the notes though, we need to be out in the open with this. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:21, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

So, what to do with [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? I suggest phrasing it like this: "'''Alpha Trion''' is one of the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]] and the Archivist who bears the [[Quill]] that writes the [[Covenant of Primus]]. He might be the same Alpha Trion as [[Alpha Trion (G1)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (RID)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|him]] and [[Alpha Trion (ROTF)|him]], though probably not [[Alpha Trion (SG)|him]]." [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:56, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Something like that. The idea in the note on the AT disambig. page was to use the Prime page for all the info on AT that we know is about the 13er Singularity, with obvious links to the others and info about the retcon. I just wanted to make sure folks were cool with the notes on the Disambig. page and the G1 Trion page before expanding the idea. As it's been a few days now with no one objecting I think the idea should be completed as at least a temporary solution, pending future info from Hasbro. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:02, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

==Another perspective on Multiuniversal Singularities==
Is it absolutely, 100% set in stone that every version of a character who's referenced as a Multiversal Singularity is definitely the same guy? How about Megatronus? Megatron used to go by that name. If we REALLY follow the idea that every character sharing a name with a Multiuniversal Singularity is the same guy, then every Megatron is also the Fallen. Assuming no one hear actually takes that position, then we have precedent where there are two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not. Once we have one example, it logically follows that there might be more.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:This makes perfect sense to me. Then again, pretty much every explanation people have come up with for, say, A3's status as an MS has made perfect sense to me, so..... --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:22, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::That actually is something that I've also considered. It ''would'' be a rather tidy "have your cake and eat it too" kind of explanation that undoes some of the thorniness of the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:29, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::It makes sense to me, too. I really like "two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not." --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:25, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::It sounds good to me. It wouldn't be the first time 2 characters with the same name existed in the same universe at once. Look at [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]. Hell, you could even argue that the non-MS character was (in-universe) named in honor of the MS. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:42, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Or, in SG Alpha Trion's case, he went crazy and started to believe that he's the MS A3. There's just so many issues that we can explain away with this. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:45, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

== The 13 as singularities concept obsolete? ==

My opinion is that, in all likelihood, the wiki is slavishly adhering to a concept (the 13 are mutiversal singularities) that isn't really going anywhere. As far as I know, it hasn't been followed up on since a [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70811&st=120&p=1585399&#entry1585399 fan-club story from around 2005] (the wiki still needs a specific citation). Yes, there was a Q&A answer, but that isn't exactly fiction. Dare I say that it is closer to [[authorial intent]] mixed with a little bit of humoring detail-obsessive fans? We are apparently in the near future getting treated to the definitive story of the original 13. I see no hints that they are going to be anything other than simply residents of the "Prime"-verse. If the 13 aren't singularities in "Prime", then I think the wiki should probably consider the concept obsolete and save a lot of headaches. If they are singularities in "Prime", I will eat my hat. This is just my 2¢. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:34, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:There might be something to this. I definitely think taking a 'wait-and-see' approach to Prime and the 13 is a good idea.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Maybe it's just taken them a while to figure out how to put things together. They have been rather busy with a multimillion dollar, multipart movie series. To me Prime seems like it is going to integrate and synthesize a lot of things and inform not just where the stories go from here, but also how the previous stories are understood. We need to exercise a little patience and see what Hasbro does next. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:40, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::We shall see, Galvatron, we shall see.....[/zarakquote]
:::Also, you're on. If the 13 are singularities in "Prime", I expect to see pics of you eating your hat. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It's certainly possible Hasbro will let the concept go at some point. But they have not yet. IF they do, then we change things, but until then we wait and go with the last official word on the subject: The 13 are singularities. Since Hasbro apparently has big plans for them soon we have a good chance to see one way or the other soon. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:25, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I seriously doubt that Prime will have anything to say about the 13 being singularities, one way or the other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:23, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::From what Hasbro's said it sounds like they plan to express the 13 backstory on a number of fronts, not just the Prime toon. I think there's a decent chance it'll be adressed at some point. Not definate, but certainly a posibillity. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 16:00, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Given the amount of product-moving time required, I doubt Hasbro would see any benefit to talking about not just one backstory but ''infinite'' backstories, dragging in dimensions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story itself just to show some characters vaulting back and forth between them. The very concept of multiversal-singularitism is of interest to only a handful and, almost inherently, does not "work" within one discrete storyline. They very well may leave the whole matter undiscussed and, for all intents and purposes, abandoned. But time will tell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

==Alien Traveler's version==
I'm sorry, but your version made up wayyyyy too much stuff. For example:
:As Unicron learned how to change his planetary form, Primus created the 13 in imitation of him. The 13 reproduced by budding, but the process had dark byproducts, so Prima was given the Matrix to perpetuate their race instead.
This was under the MARVEL COMICS CONTINUITY section! There was no 13 in the Marvel Comics continuity! They hadn't been created yet! This is absolutely not what we should be doing. We do not make up canon to make our pages read cohesively. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
:And aside from that? Anyway, let's continue that discussion on [[User talk:Alientraveller/The Primes]]. You must admit my version is far more in-depth. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:12, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
::Well no one put any input, but I hope my changes are now are more to your liking and rather than reverting a lot of work you could improve upon it instead, the article now longer seems like a stub with an elaborate intro and lots of notes. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 07:18, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::But you're not really chronicling the thirteen as a group in fiction. You're just going in-depth in what the individual members did. How is the Nexus Prime stuff relevant? Are you also going to note everything Vector Prime and Alpha Trion did? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:20, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
::::I did actually! The I looked and realized Trion and Vector and Nexus's individual exploits are better covered in this own article as it was becoming a bit of a Frankenstein, and that it should only cover instances of the Thirteen interacting. Which is why Fun Pub.'s section is fairly big, considering it does feature Vector, Alpha (and possible doppleganger) and the five components of Nexus.
::::Maybe we could hide the second two paragraphs about Fun Publications and unhide them if we get a Q&A answer regarding evil Trion. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 08:32, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::I appreciate your compromise approach, though I still think the current draft is heavily dependent on the "multiversal singularity" policy still being in effect, something that hasn't been touched on for these characters since like 1 page in 2005. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:34, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

== Solus Prime ==

I'm assuming we're going to wait for [[Transformers: Exiles|Exiles]] to be released before potentially adding him(/her?) to this list? --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 03:49, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
: Probably for the best. There really isn't anything to say till then. Wish it were closer than Sept.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:02, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

== misspelling ==

Could someone change "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to relenquish the Matrix." to "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to '''relinquish''' the Matrix."? The page is locked. --[[Special:Contributions/81.164.215.61|81.164.215.61]] 12:56, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

== Nexus ==

Except for Nexus, each of the bullets at the top describes what kind of person the Transformer was. Nexus's line, however, just focuses on what he physically was, a combiner. Exiles describes him as a cunning magician, so can someone with write access add that in?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 14:05, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Thanks, Zack.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 15:15, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Move? ==

Seems to me that this should be moved to "Thirteen", since that's the consistently-used proper name of the group. Or the most common "Thirteen (blank)" used in fiction. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:01, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Beast Mode Prime ==

[[Image:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]

Is the Prime on the upper right corner (the one to the left of the energy sphere/Vector Prime) the Beast Prime? Judging by the fact that he looks distinctly centaur-like... [[User:Tom Servo the Great|Tom Servo the Great]] 18:22, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
: We don't know. Was hoping someone would interrogate Hasbro/Prime crew at NYCC. No luck. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 18:50, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
:::It's not confirmed, but I think it's evident like Solus Prime. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:54, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
::::I disagree. It definately could be him. And may be him. But there's at least one huge monstrous member in the charging to battle pic that it could also be. We need to stay away from guesses as much as possible. As we always say, we don't need to have info "first". There is no race, and accuracy is more important. So until confirmed there's no reason for us to guess. Even if it's a reasonable guess.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 19:28, 20 October 2011 (EDT)

I don't think the energy sphere guy is Beast Prime, seeing as Minicon Prime is supposed to be the smallest, which the energy sphere guy seems to be. speaking of which, unless 'Prime' is not in his name, he may not even be a Mini-con in the movieverse, unless he got a lot larger. in the ROTF appearances of the 7 Primes, they're all seemingly larger than Megatron. [[User:CrowBuster|CrowBuster]] 17:21, 11 January 2012 (EST)[[User: CrowBuster|CrowBuster]]

== Alpha Trion ==
Since you've decided to keep all Alpha Trion's article's seperate, and just note that [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]] is a multiuniversal singualarity and the others disputed, does this mean that future incarnations of Alpha Trion will have their own article, or be included on [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? Just wondering.[[Special:Contributions/71.162.97.20|71.162.97.20]] 12:08, 11 November 2011 (EST)
: We'll address that when it happens, according to the circumstances. Impossible to say until then. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:42, 11 November 2011 (EST)

== Current placement of "Conceptual History" as of December 2nd, 2011 ==

I am personally not a fan of its placement in the page (or perhaps it's the title), I feel that goes more along the line of "trivia" which would typically reside at the bottom of the page with "Notes". I strongly feel that we should keep the structure of: "Members", then "Fiction", then either "Conceptual History" (CH), or mix the CH with "Notes". --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 06:38, 2 December 2011 (EST)
:I wrote the CH section at Interrobang's suggestion to specifically move it ''out'' of the bullet-pointed notes into full prose to give room for a proper charting of the ideas concept. Placement, you can argue, sure, but I just like having conceptual history sections up top as with [[Matrix of Leadership|the Matrix]], or [[Energon]], or the [[AllSpark]], as they are key to understanding the precise chronological unfolding of a lot of the information that then follows them on the page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:58, 2 December 2011 (EST)
::I prefer it at the top, as the Thirteen, like Unicron, energon, the Matrix, etc., are not a consistently portrayed concept. Better to elaborate on that fact to start with instead of having poorly-connected fiction sections and then an explanation why. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:06, 2 December 2011 (EST)

===The Aligned Thirteen===
I have serious philosophical problems with continuing to add Alignedverse stuff here when we were essentially told that "what was true in previous universes isn't necessarily true" there. The present incarnation of the Thirteen is clearly intended to be a "perfect" ground-up version of the story that doesn't have to be jury-rigged from previous events. More crucially, there are obvious contradictions with existing entities, particularly Alpha Trion - the top of this ''very talk page'' emphasizes that there can be no "SG" version of the old Thirteen, because they are multiversal singularities, and yet we have an indisputably SG Alpha Trion in the old multiverse. Conclusion: Alpha Trion was not a member of the Thirteen in the old multiverse. Hand-waving the ridiculous chronology of the multiversal entities from the old multiverse can account for the difference in Nexus Prime's history, the same way we can assume the Fallen betrays Primus over and over and over again in every new reality, but it shouldn't need to. 
I know we greatly value our old multiversal entities on this wiki, and for the most part so do I - but the Alignedverse should have been drawn out as separate with regards to the Thirteen as well as, probably, Unicron as soon as we learned what a fundamental character Alpha Trion (not A3) was to the new reality. It's a big contentious undertaking and so I've kind of avoided starting the fight, but it needs to be said, and so I've said it. -[[User:LV|LV]] 14:34, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:I vote for splitting into Thirteen (multiverse) and Thirteen (Aligned), or whatever the title would be. Along with Vector Prime, Liege Maximo, Prima, etc. being split up as well. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:06, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:Not that I carry a lot of juice around here, but I'd VERY much oppose splitting the articles. To my reading of Hasbro's explicit and cryptic statements since the whole multiversal singularities concept got rolling, especially as regards the 13, "Aligned" ESPECIALLY as regards the 13, represents Hasbro's official reveal of all the "we'll reveal it all later" stuff they've been saying for years.

:I'd even go one further, and suggest that, especially considering the HOF bios, some of the stuff from TF Legends, etc., I think Aligned (from Hasbro's non-wiki-friendly perspective) PROBABLY represents an official "upgrade" of EVERY major TF character to "multiversal singuilarity" status. I take Hasbro's statements RE: Aligned not as "This is a new clean copy of the TF Universe from the ground up" but rather as "Aligned represents THE clean copy of the TF Universe, of which all previous iterations were garbled and muddy photocopies"

:Which is not to say I'm suggesting that we start trerating all characters as singularities, quite the contrary. I believe Hasbro has rolled us back to their late 90's vision of "Transformers as Mythology" wherein there is "one ultimate truth" (probably unrevealed), which is represented by an infinite number versions all of which are allowed to count so long as they pass Archer's famous "squint test."

:SOOOO, if I were king of the wiki, this is what I'd do: Mentally note that Hasbro intends Aligned to be (for all intents and purposes) "Ultimate Truth." We promptly and effectively ignore that as "Authorial Intent" and document Aligned like any other continuity. MEANWHILE, any characters/concepts/etc. that Aligned paints a clear portrait of which have a meaningful (but poorly defined) analog in previous continuities, we retcon the squint-test in a general way to those previously poorly defined guys. Conviniently, and I'd wager by design more or less, 99% of what we have so far that qualifies as a "Well definined in Aligned, but present and murky/mysterious in prior continuities" are ALSO entities previously identified as singularities or their kin.

:Therefore where continuity specifics don't contradict (which we just document and ignore under the current system anyay), we assume that whatever is presented as true in Aligned for "singularities" holds true for them in non-Aligned universes. Eg. Minimus Prime is one of the 13 in G1 (though never explicitly named), and we can deduce he's probably (through whatever mysterious means) the creator of the G1 Microns (Micromaster/Micron = synonym in G1, Minicon/Micron = synonym in UT...but if that's a leap of logic too far by our standards, I get it). Since he's never mentioned by name in any G1 material, we can assume it's true, since we know he's a singularity-type-dude and that Hasbro means for the Aligned 13 to be the real-deal honest-to-betsy versions.

:Even if "multiversal singularity" as originally and explictly defined has become spread a bit thin, I think it's fair to say that the concept is still VERY useful as a functional category (for taxonomy, not neccessarily as a wiki-category), and the core concept very much works.

:By contrast SPLITTING 13 (Aligned) and 13 (EVERYTHING ELSE) does nothing other than return everybody who's not Fallen/Nexus/A3/Veccy to "name and details unknown" status outside of Aligned. Which is less than constructive.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

::Your entire premise seems constructed on the idea that Hasbro intends for Aligned to retroactively apply to all previous continuities; there is nothing to lead us to believe that. The fact that the Thirteen never got any meaningful use before the old multiverse was dumped and replaced by Aligned doesn't mean we should falsely equate the two Thirteens when a) they conflict even in the tiny amount we know about the multiversal Thirteen and b) we have been explicitly told that things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:02, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:::To back up Graham, Hasbro were very much explicitly against making Aligned part of the prior Multiverse. The Club wasn't allowed to roll it into the whole Axiom Nexus thing, and yes, the concept of the Thirteen in Aligned, and other universal hypermatters, were declared separate and distinct from their prior Multiverse's concepts. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:15, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Y'all are both missing my entire point (kind of making it FOR me in fact), but I was being long winded so, I'll try to be more brief here. As you say Hasbro has very explicitly said that "things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now." You all seem to be reading that as "Pre-Aligned and Aligned don't mix." I'm reading that as "All previous continuity was lies and falsehoods, that jazz never happened, Aligned is what's REAL." That's a thorny situation, but I'd bet my left knee that to the degree that Uncle PotatoHead cares about "canon" in general, THAT's what they mean. My understanding of how the wiki deals with all manner of retconning is that when a retcon doesn't explicitly screw up known-facts we acknowledge it, and when it DOES screw things up we either ignore or note it.

::::Sooooo....Pre-Aligned: Multiversal Singularities, notably the 13, were a thing, and that concept helped grease the wheels of Pre-Aligned fiction. OFICIALLY (by my interpretation), Hasbro says that with the start of Aligned all prior fiction is null-and-void, exisiting perhaps as a "squint test passing" version of something that might or might-not have happened. Since we have no intention of re-writing everything Pre-Aligned to say "This is crap and lies written by morons who didn't know the truth, please see 'Aligned Fiction' for real stuff", we find ourself in this position: Pre-Aligned Canon works the way we were told it worked when it still "counted." Aligned Canon (SUPPOSEDLY) represents the way things (ALL things before current, and in perpetuity) REALLY works. Pre-Aligned, The 13 are Multiversal Singularities (MVSs), but their roster and 90% of their details are unknown. In Aligned, which is The-One-And-True-Canon (supposedly) the 13 are now documented in some degree of completeness, but they aren't MVSs...because there IS NO MULTIVERSE, that was crap and lies. So when we document a part of TF canon that is officially "crap and lies" (everything pre-Aligned), we can either choose to assume that the 13 are either the same dudes as the One-True-Canon 13 (which demonstrably they are in all cases where we have comparable data points....excepting Logos), OR we can thick-headedly decide that because a "crap and lies" concept like MVS-hood is an important enough concept that the Aligned-13 MUST be different dudes because they exist in a world (One-True-Canon) where MVSing is logically impossible. I see no reason to assume that the Pre-Aligned 13 are not retroactively-intended to be the same guys as The Aligned-13. Since, from Hasbro's perspective, there is only one set of 13, period. It's the same sort of situation that Uhaul-Robot and his other cartoon flashback-buddies names and titles of glory.

::::TLDR Version: 13 (MVSs) exisit in a "truth" where MVSs are the default truth. 13 (Aligned)exist in a "truth" where they don't need to be MVSs, but Hasbro says that these are *THE REAL*("truer truth") 13. Therefore 13 (MVSs) because they are, by the LOGIC OF THEIR SHEER CONCEPT, the one-and-only 13 must, unless explicitly contradicted (which with the exception of Logos Prime, they don't, and since the fiction is over, they won't) equal 13 (Aligned) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

:Though, just to play Devil's Advocate, I suppose one could argue that Logos Prime represents at least one (micro, perhaps) continuity wherein at least one of the Aligned 13 =/= the 13 everywhere else. Which we could either decide means that the logic I laid out above is broken, or else that we can document variances as variances (up to and including member roster), while still assuming the rest holds true, functionally at least. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:35, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Something just grates on me that we're about to get the most complete notion of the Thirteen we've ''ever'' had, but because of Hasbro being continually indecisive and ultimately pulling the hamfisted assertion of "different multiverses" we can't really complete this article. It bugs me. I know it's ''technically'' correct, but I hate the feel of it. For the longest time we were on this crazy scavenger hunt for lore on the Thirteen and now we have to say they weren't ''the same'' Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:37, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:I definitely don't disagree that it's maddening. We were "supposed" to learn all about them in that IDW series mentioned-then-abandoned, which one has to think was one of the most influential things through absence to be, insofar of its inability to have any effect on the Aligned Thirteen or the current IDW backstory. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::It's grating, because it's crazy. Think about it this way, we're taling about the TF GODS here. Whether you're talking the Millenialist Mono-Deity, or ancient Pagan pantheons, whenever you get to "god level" in story telling you end up with a million versions of the same "god" told a million different ways. This is the nature of a living evolving storytelling culture, it's one of things I most love about Transformers, it's a modern mythic system in fast-forward speed evolution. There are like 15 different versions of Aphrodite/Venus, for instance, in many cases basic facts vary from version to version (place and method of origin, etc.), but no one disputes that they're all the same goddess. Even though you'll see some reference materials seperate out Venus and Aphrodite to keep their Roman and Greek histories etc. straight, there's ALWAYS an explicit reference that the two have over the centuries become conflated and interchangeable, and any shorter reference will treat them under a single entry. Because we have NEXT TO NOTHING on 13 (Multiverse) and will soon have nearly EVERYTHING on 13 (Aligned) it's stupid to split them. Are we going to make a Unicron (Multiverse) and Unicron (Aligned) and a Primus (Multiverse) and Primus (Aligned) split as well? If we split the 13, we gotta split the daddies as well. There's either a conceptual/logical bridge between the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" or there isn't. We can't have it both ways.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:29, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:I'm putting my reply down here, because the nesting thing going on above is a mess. In reply to Destronger: The quote specifically says "what '''''was true'''''" in the non-Aligned settings, so I don't see how you can interpret that as "we are saying the non-Aligned settings are mistellings of Aligned. Furthermore...non-Aligned fiction is ''still being produced by Hasbro'', which puts the lie to the idea that Hasbro is doing some kind of George Lucas "now we have the resources to tell the story we always meant to" thing.
:The facts are:
#In order to keep everything canon in past settings, Hasbro had to sest up a huge multiverse system with the Thirteen as multiversal singularities.
#When asked if Aligned was part of that system, Hasbro pretty clearly communicated that no, Aligned within its internal canon is not part of the multiversal system (even if the setup of the multiversal system would seem to internally demand that it is!). As far as I know, the Aligned stuff hasn't even got a multiversal stream name, so there's no reason to think they are meant to mesh in any way.
:Basically, Hasbro is trying to treat them as separately as they would treat Animated and My Little Pony, so we should as well. Not to mention the contradictions that pop up with stuff like the "Seven Primes", "Logos Prime", etc.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:11, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities. But I'll set all that aside and again ask the question that captures my point even more simply: Do we split Unicron and Primus into (Aligned)/(Multiversal) entries? How about the planets like Cybertron, Junk, Velocitron? Do we split those? The 13 fall into the same bucket as all those examples, big-picture macro-concepts that stay "true and consistant enough" regardless of continuity, while also having little enough to be said about them specifically, that they all get to live at a single entry. If we NEED to be pedantic about it and have a split-fiction section Where we say Multiverse: The 13 are Singularities and exisit in multiverses simultaneously Aligned: They do stuff explicitly in the novels and we see them in a flash-back, then FINE, that's cool. But they SO don't need to be split as a category. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 16:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::The sheer volume of noise you're putting out here is discouraging to conversation, but here are a handful of points: Yes, Unicron should probably have his own Aligned page. No, we don't need to split planets, because we never have. The Thirteen are characters and characters get different pages for different continuities. For the purposes of this split, "Aligned" and "Everything else" are two different continuities. What you seem to regard as a convincing argument to keep them merged works only if everyone already agrees that Hasbro meant something only you think they meant. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:54, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I also support splitting Unicron into an Aligned entry, but Primus...would be dang tiny. Just, like, DANG.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 18:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I apologize if you find my involvement to be more "noise" than "signal", I'll bow to group consensus whatever direction it swings in. Splitting Unicron is my personal litmus test for splitting the 13, I personally think doing so is daft and removing clarity rather than adding to information when a simple split-fiction section would do, but as the group wills. I'll go back to quietly fixing grammar and adding pictures of obscure goodies.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 19:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::It's not the signal-to-noise ratio, it's just the masses and masses of text. Even if it's all made of valid talking points, it's hard to deal with in this kind of medium. If you were offended, I apologize. I wasn't trying to be hostile. I have no idea how separating Unicron's actions in a cartoon unrelated to all other fiction "removes clarity", though - but to be frank, Unicron concerns me a lot less than the Thirteen. Unicron is, in both pre- and Aligned incarnations, an evil god dude. The Thirteen don't even seem to be composed of the same individuals - even Nexus Prime is made up of different guys. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:33, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::Weird side thought on Nexus Prime: What if he is the sort of inverse of the Movie Constructicons/Devastator? Instead of being many individuals who can merge into different versions of Devastator, he is one guy who can split into several individuals in multiple ways? Just something that bounced through the pachinko machine I use as a brain when I read what you wrote. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:35, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::::No real offense taken. For better or worse my brain has been molded to think and express this way (literary analysis), and I can get how this medium makes it hard to process. Anyway, I totally see the argument of the 13 being different guys, if that's the case they totally need a split, but are they? Other than Logos, who's a vaguely defined maybe from Takara's side of the house, who else varies, that we know of? Megatronus/Fallen, Nexus, Vector, they've all been fully-confirmed. Is there anyone else on the Multiverse-list that's NOT on the Aligned-list? We've got problems in the OTHER direction, A3 being all SG'd up, LeigeMaximo maybe being hard to reckon. But I don't think those rough-fit issues would invalidate the membership rolls. BTW Khajidha- that's a BRILLIANT notion. I think it'l be fanon in my brain from here forward :) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 09:02, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
"''Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities.''" 
No, we really are not. Aaron and Rik, the two guys largely responsible for the Aligned universe deal, were very much concerned about the continuity matter because they do know what fans are like. Not bragging, but I know this from personal correspondence and interaction with them through occasional paid work for the two for the [[Binder of Revelation]]. Aligned was explicitly meant to be a separate entity ''with no bleed-back into what came before''. What was true for what came before ''remained'' true for what came before and for whatever ongoing fictions within that framework would come (IDW, FunPub, movies), but would have no bearing on what came later in Aligned beyond "potential inspirational starting point for a premise". "G1" Wheeljack isn't a hardassed sword-swinging Wrecker now, Bumblebee still talks, etc etc. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:55, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
::Okay, it sounds like the answer to this is "yes", but just to check: do you know from that correspondence whether this separation also applies to the divine Unicron and Primus, meaning that they should be split as well?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:03, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I do not know for certain, I didn't ask. Going by the known intent, I can ''guess'' that the answer is ''probably'' "yes"... BUT. What we do know of Unicron and Primus so far in Aligned does not, to the best of my knowledge, actually ''contradict'' the two's non-Aligned multiversal backstory. So splitting Uni and Primus, so far, is STILL a point of contention without a clear answer. The Aligned stuff does not apply to the past stuff... but the past stuff might be used as the basis for Aligned stuff. I think we'd need to know more about the origin story of the two in Aligned before we can REALLY make the call to split. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:50, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:: Close enough to the horse's mouth for me. Pending KK's questons about the divinities being asnwered, I'll not argue any further.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:39, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

===Revisiting===
To revisit this discussion six months later and after the Covenant and what it has told us about the "Thirteenth Prime", I don't think we really have any ''choice'' at this point but to have separate "Multiverse" and "Aligned" pages for the Thirteen. We could use this one as a hub page and keep the "conceptual history" section on for ease of explanation, then have separate links off to those articles for member lists and fiction respective to the two groups. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 10:01, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:So the multiverse Thirteen list would be Prima, Vector Prime, Nexus Prime, Liege Maximo, the Fallen, and Logos Prime, right? I guess this would also entail new Aligned-only articles for those guys (minus Logos) too... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:58, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::I ''guess'', but in most cases that honestly that seems like it would be only done as a matter of wiki standards, rather than because the articles as they are now are inherently "wrong". Like, I really don't think there'd be any point to splitting out Primus and Unicron's aligned stuff into articles of their own, for instances. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:35, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:::There is also the matter of "[[Timeless]]" having [[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]] getting a peak at (what we have determined to be) the Aligned Continuity. Whether that suggests that it's the Club's way of saying that Aligned is within the Multiverse or not is still up for debate. If it isn't, then Rhinox must have surpassed the Multiverse's boundries to get a glimpse from the outside of it. But if it is, then... I just really don't know anymore. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:00, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::::I don't think we need to append any special significance to that. The club's been very good about treating the Aligned stuff as "separate", whether it's describing the universe that Rhinox views as far out and unclassified, or talking about TFSS Slipstream's mysterious origins on her bio-card. Understand, mind you, that I find the sentence "separate from the multiverse" to be amazingly frustrating and dumb and all my senses shift to white noise for a moment when I hear it since it defeats the entire point of HAVING a multiverse with these rules at all, but it is what it is and I deal. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:48, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::::Eh, it does kinda give our "[[Omniverse]]" page a bit more weight to it, though. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:12, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:I'm not sure why Covenant would make splitting THIS page necessary. It's not like we have two entirely separate lists of the Thirteen members -- we have one full Aligned list and one incomplete Multiversal list, with only one point of contention between the two that I'm aware of (Logos Prime). And if the much, much longer pages for Primus, Unicron, even the Wreckers can be multiversal and aligned, then The Thirteen can be too. Yes, The Thirteenth Prime is one crazy bag of cats, but that's its own problem; it doesn't have to influence the Thirteen page, anymore than having separate Alpha Trion pages did. Let Thirteenth Prime's page deal with him, but we don't need to spread that crazy to the rest of the wiki just so that his page makes more sense. Or is there some other bone of contention with Covenant's content? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:07, 30 December 2013 (EST)
::At a minimum, the "Members" section needs to be split into "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:01, 31 December 2013 (EST)
:::Agreed. That's a given. Who all is a confirmed member of the Thirteen outside of Aligned, though? '''Vector Prime''' and '''Nexus Prime''', definitely. '''Logos Prime''' was identified as a contemporary of Vector Prime, so that should count. '''The Fallen''' and '''Prima''' from ''The Ultimate Guide''. '''Liege Maximo''' remains unconfirmed as a Multiversal Thirteen, though, right? Six others were created for Aligned, and we all know the stories with '''Alpha Trion''' and '''Optimus'''. That's it, I think.--[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:02, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::''The Ultimate Guide'' named Liege Maximo as a Multiversal 13er. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:47, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:::::I don't have the ''Guide'', but the Conceptual History as written makes it sounds ambiguous. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:31, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::::Hm, so it does. Lemme check the book again. ''*goes to look at the book*'' Okay, upon further examination, it states that ''Alignment'' confirms his as a 13er, so I guess the ambiguity of this in the Conceptual History is accurate in regards to that story's apocryphal status. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 17:08, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:You know, now that we've split the Multiversal 13 from the Aligned 13, that rumor about [[Maccadam]] being one of the Multiversal 13 mentioned in ''The Ultimate Guide'' no longer seems fruitless. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:22, 3 January 2014 (EST)

===Revisiting Pt. 2===
So, what's the ultimate consensus, split or leave the pages as is? [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] ([[User talk:Mimi|talk]]) 17:54, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

===Revisiting Pt. 3===

There's new media with which to look back and reinterpret the clusterfuck that is the Covenant of Primus. Specifically, [[The Crucible]], or RID #34, goes into great depth of the exploits of the Thirteen towards the end of their time. This matches up relatively closely with Aligned fiction. Does this mean we can re-merge the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists of Thirteen, with a singular note regarding Logos versus Optimus? [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 10:01, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:IDW may be re-tailoring their notion of the Thirteen into a more workable form, but merging the lists depends heavily upon the no longer true "multiversal singularity" notion. We see no indication that the Primes from IDW are multiversal singularities. They're far more like the Aligned Primes in that they're from one universe only. If anything, I think this more supports ''further'' fracturing our list so we don't have to keep trying to reconcile the movieverse versus Aligned versus the Unicron Trilogy presentation of them.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:54, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
::We almost ''never'' see any indication that any of the Primes are multiversal singularities, because that is only actual relevant to stories that are about the multiverse. There's nothing about the Fallen in either War Within or ROTF to indicate he's not "from one universe only," or Vector Prime in the Cybertron cartoon, or Prima and the Liege Maximo in the Marvel Comics, etc. That is how this has always worked. For most of the Thirteen, and also Primus and Unicron for that matter, being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction in which nothing whatsoever is said to indicate other universes even exist, because it's a background detail only relevant to obscure fan club stuff and the like. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:13, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:::To clarify, I don't personally see any problem with keeping all information on the Thirteen as a group here rather than in separate articles. I just think increasingly we should organize it more along the lines of the Wreckers article, and acknowledge that the Thirteen can have different rosters in different universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 12:27, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

::::''"being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction"''
:::Isn't that a textbook example of "the tail wagging the dog"? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness|talk]]) 11:27, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:In any case, while this page can certainly remain in its current form, covering the 13 concept cross-continuities in much the same way as the Wreckers page, the splitting of the multiversal versions and the Aligned versions of the characters included in both lists (Nexus, Prima, Fallen, Liege Maximo, and, now, Onyx) is long past due. -- [[User:Shellspark|Shellspark]] ([[User talk:Shellspark|talk]]) 01:37, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
::This is 100% true. Nexus Prime isn't even made of the same people, for crying out loud. -[[User:LV|LV]] ([[User talk:LV|talk]]) 10:48, 25 October 2014 (EDT)

Where would the IDW Thirteen be covered if we split their character articles into multiverse and Aligned? There's no evidence that they were that universe's original Transformers or that they were born to Primus. They seem more like regular people than the typical demigods. I'd be tempted to suggest splitting every single member of the Thirteen by continuity family, same as Alpha Trion. Hasbro has very obviously abandoned the notion of multiversal singularities, even for stuff like IDW that's technically part of the pre-Aligned multiverse. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:40, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:There are still canonical stories featuring the Thirteen hopping universes though, so it's important to keep some together. I wouldn't mind if we gave the Movie Fallen his own page though.
:I want to ask, are we going to cover IDW's 13 here or not? I'm itching to add Alpha Trion to the multiverse list. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

== New information from the Complete AllSpark Almanac and 2015 Facebook blogs ==

How shall we proceed with the new information that there can be both singularity and non-singularity iterations of the Thirteen in the [[multiverse]], of which the [[Aligned continuity family]] is now a part of as [[Uniend]]? Also, Ask Vector Prime has Vector Prime referring to Logos Prime and Liege Maximo in the same post. Can we finally put Liege back onto the mainstream multiverse list? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 13:47, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:Are we really treating everything Ask Vector Prime says as canon? I doubt every answer he's giving is being run past Hasbro or whoever. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:24, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::I've talked to the author of the page, and it's basically allowed to answer things that the Club is allowed to work wit, and vice versa-for example, he can't talk about anything that has to do with the things in the Bay movies. So I'd say that it's something that's been approved by Hasbro, and making it easier so they don't have to ring up Hasbro HQ every couple hours and ask them if the answer they provide for a Facebook promotion is acceptable. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:29, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, but what I'm saying is if Vector Prime says Fixit in RID is a dimension-hopping Pipo from Victory, that's not going to mean we have to merge the Fixit (RID) and Pipo pages, right? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:08, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, no. But then I doubt they're allowed to use the current series anyway. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:16, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::I really don't think that's a hypothetical that will happen. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:19, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::Indeed, no, I was using it as a theoretical example. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:23, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Oh well, too late I guess. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:09, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
Oh heck, [[Ask Vector Prime]] just said that it was Solus Prime who used her Forge to shatter the Star Saber that mainstream multiverse Nexus Prime has been looking for! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:35, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

== Revisiting yet again ==

While I know I was the one to raise the subject of splitting these characters after the distinct versions of them appeared in the Covenant, I think IDW's take on them requires us to talk on this again, as does our recent change in perspective regarding accessibility of our articles. IDW's Thirteen are based on the Aligned Thirteen (with Optimus Prime being the outlier unanswered question right now), and we've just had some recently commentary from "Vector Prime" on Facebook regarding the blending of the Uniened cluster with the multiverse.

I think Sipher's remark when talking about Unicron and doing exactly the same thing with him is worth quoting here: "We don't split "Cybertron (planet)" into different pages via continuity. Or "Autobot" or "Decepticon" or "spark" etc etc. While these are all in-universe "things" they're also broader multiversal concepts, and we already approach those with a slight... distance if you will. I feel like these meta-deals like Unicron, Primus, The Thirteen, etc, could benefit from treating them the same way we do those pages... stepping back a little and treating them less like concrete THINGS with a rigid this-is-exactly-it approach right out of the gate, and more as concepts with broad-strokes facets that are almost always true but the details will vary (sometimes wildly)."

I think we seriously need to look at treating the individual Thirteen character articles like this. I don't think it would require any change to ''this'' page—we would still maintain separate lists of who's who in the group in the different "realms", it's just that the the character articles we'd be linking to (with the obvious exception of Optimus) would be the same ones. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
*Agreed. If I recall correctly, a previous fly in the ointment was Shattered Glass Alpha Trion versus Forrest Lee's statement about no SG The Fallen at the top of this talk page. However, another Ask Vector Prime answer suggests that travelling to negative polarity streams attempts to flip the nature of singularities, providing a canon counterpoint and reducing the no SG thirteen thing to authorial intent. So with that in mind, I'd say I'm for this. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 06:18, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::Given some of the hints about how the rules of Singularities are soon to change, perhaps a wait and see attitude would be prudent. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:04, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::: *squint*What're you up to, Sorenson...? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:45, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Honesty, just trying to save you some work. (Whatever may or may not happen, I'm not the impetus.)--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:14, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::According to various Ask Vector Prime answers, the rules have already changed: we have non-singularity versions of Unicron, Primus-less Cybertrons, Aligned was outside the multiverse and is now back in. Pretty much everything about How This Stuff Works is up in the air right now. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::The ambiguity was my main reason for proposing a condensing of the information into as few places as possible so it can more easily be explained, but if the word is that there's about to be some new exploration of what all this means in-fiction, then yes, we probably ought to hold off. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:28, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::I agree with holding off for now. After all, the current Fun Publications storylines seem to be all about restoring balance to the destabilized multiverse. Plus, Aligned Megatronus is going to appear in the ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'' cartoon and singularity Nexus Prime might appear in ''[[Another Light]]'' later this year. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 14:05, 28 May 2015 (EDT)

Remember this? Now that all's said and done, I stick by it. With IDW continuity continuing to do more and more with the Thirteen, depicting the characters and their backstories as they appeared in Aligned fiction, I'm even more convinced that the different incarnations need to live on the same page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:26, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:So, who should stay separate? Optimus and Alpha Trion, obviously; Megatronus and Vector feel like borderline cases, so maybe they should be split off using suites. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with merging them all. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:48, 16 November 2015 (EST)
::Agreed on Optimus and Trion; for Megatronus and Vector, rather than a straight split, I'd go for more of a standard split-out page like we do for "Generation 1 cartoon continuity" or "IDW Generation 1 continuity", with a small write-up on the main article page that links off to a larger page containing the full run-down, plus a suite, as you say. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:51, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:::The Community Portal had [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#Multiversal singularities|a discussion]] in which people liked the idea of using suites for some of the more wildly different versions (like SG versions) of these guys. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:13, 16 November 2015 (EST)

== I count fourteen " Multiverse Thirteen..." ==

1.Prima, 2. Vector Prime, 3. Megatronus, 4. Nexus Prime, 5. Logos Prime, 6. Micronus Prime, 7. Liege Maximo, 8. Solus Prime, 9. Epsitimus, 10. Autonomous Maximus, 11. Solomus, 12. Onyx Prime, 13. Alchemist Prime, 14. Alpha Trion...
Alpha Trion is omitted from the list in the article itself, while Micronus Prime is omitted from the template at the bottom of the article... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:Oh, wait, Trion was established as multiverse Thirteen at some point? I've not been keeping up with every single one of the Vector Prime posts... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:25, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::I think SOMEONE said Alpha Trion was a multiversal singularity at some point, but I'm certain it wasn't Vector Prime. I think it was way back when Multiversal singularities were established as a thing by Hasbro. I'm not sure if it was meant all along to just mean Prime Alpha Trion was one of the Thirteen? I'm pretty confused by this whole thing to be honest. I was just pointing out the incongruity. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:28, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, I see, Trion was added to the multiverse Thirteen on the template back when he was established as belonging to the IDW Thirteen, who at this point are clearly just normal people. Checking again, the post that noted Autonomus, Solomus, etc. as being multiverse Thirteen specifically notes Trion as being one of the Aligned-specific ones. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::::This whole article is going to have to be majorly restructured anyway as there is no longer any such thing "mutliverse Thirteen" now that Aligned is part of the multiverse. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:08, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::Well we knew that was coming, as Jim intimated in the section above this one. The rupturing of the barrier between the Aligned family and the rest of the multiverse is doing ''something'' to the Thirteen that is basically going require this be re-written with "this is how it used to be, this is how it is now" approach, but whatever is is that's happened hasn't finished happening yet, so we should probably wait a bit. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Autonomous Maximus ==

I don't think it should be definitively stated that Autonomous and the Last Autobot are the same guy; in my opinion, the description seems to be a humorous reference to [[Anonymous Maximus]], given the similarity of name to the one we use on the wiki; the description given would work equally well for him. Similarly, I think the Maccadam part should be relegated to a trivia note on the Alchemist/Maccadam pages; if we are going to have it here, at least have a note stating that it wasn't explicit. The Autonomous thing, however, is much less clear in what it's referring to, so... [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:They both might be lonely sentinels, but Occam's Razor suggests that if one of them is being retconned into a member of the Thirteen, it's probably the one who's explicitly a servant of Primus and isn't the brother of someone who's definitely not a member of the Thirteen, y'know? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::That's as may be, but the name seems to deliberately evoke our term for Superion Maximus's brother. I admit that it's more likely to be the Last Autobot on a fictional level, but I think there's enough ambiguity there that we shouldn't call Autonomous = Last Autobot definitely canon. (Besides, maybe Anonymous Maximus is the same guy as the Last Autobot...) [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:47, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Personally, I don't see how saying the guy whose description is exactly that of the Last Autobot is the same guy as the Last Autobot is any more speculative than, for example, saying that an unnamed guy in a comic panel who looks exactly like Blue Bacchus is an appearance of Blue Bacchus, y'know? It's not even a "some say" kind of thing like with Maccadam - the sentence is clearly setting out to tell us that the Last Autobot is one of the Thirteen, it just doesn't use that name. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 20:43, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
"Anonymous Maximus" does not match the description of Autonomous Maximus at all. He wasn't a "lone sentinel," there were three others with him, and he has a brother who isn't one of the Thirteen, so aside from similar names I see nothing in common there. Autonomous is the Last Autobot, yeah, that works. He's also Superion Maximus's dead brother? Nope. Doesn't fit. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:36, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::There's really nothing linking him to the Anonymous Maximus besides a similar-sounding name. He's pretty gosh-darned clearly supposed to be the Last Autobot to the point that I'm not clear why definite language isn't being used. Perhaps a follow-up question to VP could clarify. Conversely, Alchemist Prime's bit seems quite deliberately worded to keep in-tune with the original "Maccadam is one of the Thirteen" thing, in that it's presented as just being a rumour that some people ''think'' might be the case (ie: his drunk patrons talking nonsense). - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Removing my line from the IDW section ==

AVP established that G1 Cartoon Unicron was NEVER part of the singularity, and in my interpretation the idea was that, even "outside" the Shroud event, it "just so happened" that Unicron was created while a truly singular version of him existed. Why couldn't the same apply to the IDW versions of the 13?

Here's another example: the Animated universe. AVP did a lot of hand-waving to make it so that Wyatt's pipe dream of no Primus could be true, even before the idea of the Shroud. Maybe something like that could apply to the IDW universe as well?

Point is, there's no reason that the IDW version ever "had to be part of" the Singular nature of the 13. If it's possible for non-singular versions of Unicron to exist, and if Primus can just straight up not be in certain universes, then maybe the IDWverse - and perhaps others - could have had entities similar to the 13 but "not ever part" of the singular versions of the 13. [[User:Magaroja|Magaroja]] ([[User talk:Magaroja|talk]]) 20:05, 6 March 2016 (EST)
:Yeah, but the Shroud retroactively explains ''why'', from our perspective, they weren't. It's catch-all bullshit-fu. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:38, 6 March 2016 (EST)

==Should the "Multiversal Thirteen" be renamed?==

Since the Multiversal Thirteen have literally been retconned out of existence, should they be renamed...something else? Like the Forgotten Thirteen, or the Former Thirteen, or something?

Also, related, why are the Multiversal Thirteen listed above the "Aligned" Thirteen when the Covenant of Primus was released before the Ask Vector Prime post? Especially since the "Aligned" Thirteen seem to be the Thirteen that are popping up in the comics and toys, and probably everything else going forward, it might be confusing for people.
[[User:ZakuConvoy|ZakuConvoy]] ([[User talk:ZakuConvoy|talk]]) 19:47, 7 March 2018 (EST)

==Extra image==
[[File:One-Primes.jpg|thumb]]

==Toys Section==

When official images for the Age of the Primes toyline are released, should a section be added about these specific figures regarding these Thirteen members? Meaning not all Alpha Trions, Vector Primes, or Fallens, just these versions.
Basically what was done with the Wreck 'N Rule Collection on the Wreckers page? [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] 10:42, 5 December 2024 (PST)

Talk:Thirteen

2024-12-05T18:36:48Z

TFEarthConquest:

{{Note|At the Botcon 2009 Question panel, [[Forest Lee]] (Hasbro's internal TF continuity guy) when asked what The Fallen would be like in "Shattered Glass" finally stated explicitly that The Fallen '''was''' a multiversal singularity-- there is no "SG" Fallen.. there is only The Fallen, one guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT) reported by Walky}}

==Multiversal singularities==
Are the first 13 all "continuity singularities" as Primus and Unicron are? One version existing across all realities? Vector Prime definately seems to be, and Maccadam as well if you include "Prime Spark" as cannon. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

How can Unicron jump continuities wih all his different HISTORIES? he spent MILLIONS OF YEARS as Cybertrons' MOON fergods sake!

The whole singularities thing is a godawful mess. You have to start acceptign that Unicron, who DEMONSTRABLY spends tens or tens of MILLIONs of years in individual continuities is time-travelign as WELL as jumping continuities. Which is fine, but for some reason in the Armada comic he doesn't, and no one's ever even HEARD of Unicron before, he's a completely external threat with no history in this universe.

But then, I think brad Mick intended Thundercracker to be one of the 13, so what do I know? It's not like I have a decent track record at pattern recognition or anything... ''*cough*predaconpolitics*cough*''

Also, IS Primus a singularity across all continuities? I could have sworn we saw him DIE. ''I hate the sucky TFU-type Multiverse! it sucks, it sucks '''so hard''' Gregory!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

...why is it impossible that no one's ever heard of Unicron in the Armada universe until he shows up? It makes perfect sense to me. Hell, the only person who's ever even investigated or shown more than a little interest Cybertron's past in the Armadaverse is Overrun, and he was from another universe anyway. If there's only one Unicron and infinite universes, of COURSE he's going to be new to some of them! Derik, start making sense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

but if he's new to SOMe of them, how is he ancient in MANY of them? :~( does he exist simultaneously in the past of many universes? The marvel US Comic and Aramda toon BOTh, for instance, have Unicron at different locations in space in the year 2020. Is he time-traveling?

I guess mostly i just bitch because I think it sucks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

I took it as a given that he time-travels when he moves between dimensions. This isn't really that hard to figure out, man. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Say, do we know enough about how the TF multiverse works to say for sure that when it's 1977 in one universe it's 1977 in them all?
--[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

The Ultimate Guide refers to the non-Fallen original Cybertronic Transformers as "Prima and the Twelve", which, while not clear, implies to me that Prima is in addition to the twelve. Also, I see no reason to casually discount Primon's existence or Matrix-holding simply because we know Prima was the first Transformer on Cybertron - we know there were Transformers before Cybertron because the Covenant of Primus predate its creation. Primon could have held the Matrix before Prima ever existed.

Maccaddam being anything other than a bar-owner was a goddamn joke, and Legends explicitly de-continuities itself so its stories can't be used to support arguments. Prime Spark was a WARendfeld story anyway.

''(next part of argument contains minor spoilers for the club comic''

And I don't understand the concern about Unicron at all. He's not one guy who travels between all continuities, he's a single entity that exists in all continuities (or none, presently) simultaneously. That's why the Unicron the TFU away team flew to was in the depths of our space in Year-The-End-Of-BM-Plus-One but vanished when the Unicron in Energon was destroyed. Simply because he was a dormant moon in the Armadaverse in 1991 has no bearing on his activities in 1991 in the G1 comic (eating Cybertron) or the G1 cartoon (cruising around the universe to a groovy synth soundtrack). The same is clearly true of Primus - otherwise, you have to assume he's been physically dimension-hopping-and-time-travelling around the multiverse as well, which is not the case because otherwise there would only be a Cybertron in one universe at any given time. The club comic's discussion of Cybertron-as-hinge-point supports my view, I think.

Vector Prime is unlike Unicron and Primus in that he is a single entity existing in a single continuity at any given time, no different from Axer. It's possible that one of the Twelve in every continuity is a Vector Prime analogue, but in my opinion we don't have nearly enough evidence to say one way or another. -[[User:LV|LV]] 15:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree strongly, LV. Though Unicron has the ability to move between dimensions at will, he is confined to one universe at a time. According to the Club comic itself, Primus is "a single, infinite curvea cross all realities; the only truly unique thing in all of creation." Unicron is "bound always by his imprisonment in a physical body, he's been incapable of destroying mroe than one reality at a time." Thing is, being dead in the black hole *changed*this dynamic. The Unicron singularity is what has, for the first time, consolidated the Unicron of allwhens into one black hole which is beginning to perpetuate itself across every timeline. This is why Cybertron's Unicron is beginning to affect Universe's Unicron. This occurrence is a new situation, unique to this storyline. It can't be used as evidence to support Unicron's properties in normal circumstances. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Then I agree with Derik. If Unicron only exists one place at one time, it is essentially irreconcilable with what has been shown in the fiction. If Unicron can happily time-travel when he changes dimensions, then there is nothing preventing him from existing in all dimensions simultaneously. He simply travels to the beginning of each when he leaves the previous one, thus existing linearly from his own perspective but simultaneously across all universes from every single other being's. You cannot have a time-and-space-travelling Unicron and a Unicron that can only be in one dimension at a time from any perspective but his own. In other words, as was said already, we can definitely place Unicron in at least two continuities in 1991, since he was actively eating Cybertron and orbiting Cybertron. If canon says otherwise, then it's canon, but it is fundamentally illogical and unworkable. And yes yes, transforming aliens from a planet the size of Saturn made of metal blah blah blah, but there is "unrealistic premise" and there is "an explanation which in no ways accounts for any of the material it purports to explain". But oh well. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

But they were two different 1991s, man, in different timelines. He's not in 1991 twice at the same time, he's in two distinct 1991s at different times. Hell, as Kil said above, we don't even know that when it's 1977 in one universe, it's 1977 in them all. Hell, when it's 2030AD in the Unicron Trilogy, it's been demonstrated that it's apparently ~2350AD in Generation 1! I do not see it as irreconcileable. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing which is better illustrated with a picture, but Unicron CANNOT time-travel when changing dimensions without allowing the possibility of existing in multiple continuities simultaneously. That is just the way it is with multiple simultaneously-existing timelines. If you do not want them to be the same year, that is fine. Unicron can nonetheless exist in 2030AD in UT and 2350AD in G1 simultaneously if he can time-travel.

It is not an issue for debate; the canon says what it says. However, the canonical explanation is irrational. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Here I was thinking no one would respond to this while I was at work and I come back to "this." Let's put this in talking points:

1) Primus is one single pan-dimensional being existing simultaniously in all continuities. We're all agreed on that right? We can like it or dislike it, but at the moment that's what cannon says.

2)Unicron has only ever existed in one continuity at a time (until Cybertron). Fine. Let's look at that. It *IS*odd that the brothers would be different this way without explination and that if he could jump through time and dimensions completely at will he wouldn't always jump to the begining of each one, and so, yes, to all perspectives but his own exist everywhen at once. There are two possible solutions to that part of the issue: either A) He can't travel through time in an unlimited fasion but only make small jumps time-wise or with great difficulty, or B) He cannot travel in time at all, not even when he jumps universes, but as Walky suggested, time is not in the same reletive place across universe. ie - When it's 1985 in the cartoon maybe it's only 1945 in the IDW books. If he jumped between them he would seem to travel intime but would not actually do so. Do those work, at least as a plausible enough to forget the iffyness solutions?

3)Why dismiss Maccadam as a joke? The entry in the DK guide seemed perfectly serious to me. Did it leave question as to whether it was true or a rummor? Sure. But I don't see anything that leans the suggestion one way or another. I rather like the idea myself. Legends, does put itself purposefully out of continuity, true, BUT when you're dealing with a multiverse can you totally do that? I mean if there are infinite universes the ones from Legends must be included in their somewhere right?

4)Getting back to my original question: Is the concensus that there are multiple Vector Prime's across continuities? It just seems that if his job is to safeguard space time that'd make things awefully complicated with ALL of him jumping around and constantly running into each other. Would one single Primus make an infinitude of reality jumping Vector Primes? And if he did, why doesn't an infinite army of VPs show up at each trouble spot to deal with the problem and wipe out and Unicron/Decepticon problems while they're at it? So far we've only seen ONE Vector Prime at work across the whole spectrum of past TF universe. We're sure he's not a singularity?

[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I can no longer make conclusions about Vector Prime based on the ludicrous canonical explanation for Unicron, so I abstain from commenting on him. However, I maintain that the reference in the UG to Maccaddam is clearly a joke - they're talking about a bar, and they immediately say that this absurd claim that the barkeeper is a legendary ancient Transformer with the observation that they serve extremely strong drinks. It's a joke about being drunk. Entirely in-character for Furman. -[[User:LV|LV]] 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

See I just don't read the Maccadam entry that way at all. It reads serious to me. The final line is meant to put a bit of humorus doubt on the rest, but only a bit of doubt/mystery IMO. Maccadam's has always been a bit of a special place and a pet local of Furman's and I can totally see him quite seriously setting it up to be used this way. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ in our takes on it. The important thing for the Wikki is that Maccadam remains a rumored, but not confirmed, member of the 13. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I had another thought, the better to muddy the waters. With Unicron and Primus having god or near-god status, could their being the same, er, being doesn't necessarily mean they're actually bouncing back and forth between dimensions and times all the time? Could they be 'aspects' or 'splinters' of the same being?
(Way to be obscure: There's a ''Doctor Who'' story called ''The City of Death'' which has a neat example, but moving on...)
This could be what makes them so hard to finally kill, if they've got the entirety of their 'selves' spread out across multiple realities at a time. This also means it's not hard for Unicron to attack in the Marvel reality in 1991, the Dreamwave UT reality in 2003, the Movie reality in 2005, and so on. He doesn't (always) travel between dimensions, he just already exists that way.
Hmmm...OK, maybe that made sense.
[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 05:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

:If Macadam as a member of the 13 was a joke, why did the pictue of Macadam's bad show characters from multiple continuities?

:Everyone sseems really comfortable saying "There's only one Primus, just liek Unicron." I admit I've msised some material lately- vould someone please tell me '''where''' this was established? Because-- we've kinda seen Primus die.

::and Unicron. But it's a fair point. For all their apparent similarities, Primus and Unicron represent fundamentally different things, so it's not unreasonable to assume that some aspects of them differ wildly. If Unicron represents chaos, then his random appearances and contradictory histories suddenly make quite a bit more sense to me. He's not MEANT to obey the normal rules. It's against his very nature.

:Unicron time-traveling I dont' really gundamentally have a hard time accepting. We saw in Worlds Collide (?) that the untuned Transwarp Space Bridge portals were flittign across space AND time, showing pictures of the distant past (BW) and buture (BW Neo/BM) as well as plainly laternate worlds (RiD.) So it's '''possible''' that Whisper's world Unicron was coming from int he very deep and distant future, and he decided that the Armada-toonverse was weak and ignorant enough he could just show up in the present and demolish it, and didn't need to lay deep plans to do so.

:But- where the hell did dreamwave!Armada's Mini-cons come from then if not Unicron?

:Has Unicron even marauded across 'infinite' realities? In Worlds Collide they call it his ''Ninth Emergence.'' That's not infinite realities. That's '''nine''' realities. And so what was up with Primus saying Unicron ate the previous Universe in us!Marvel#74? Was he just '''lying''' for no reason?

:My main complaint witht he Multiversal Unicron we were presented with si that it '''doesn't make sense''', not that they didnt' explain it all, it's that '''no''' possible explanation seems to explain it all. And not tiny inconstencies- massive, glaring fundamentally unworkable inconsistencies. Inconsistencies even in the material generated that's suppsoed to explain how this all works!

:Kang's explanation form Marvel comics, with time-travel and th war to pin down his various aspects works. Except- we'rs '''explicitly told''' that no, that's '''not''' the case. So... bah. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Primus and Unicron exist across multiple continuities, because they are Gods, and represent chaos and order. However, they CAN be removed from a given continuty, and still continue to exist in others.

Vector Prime exists across all continuities and times, because it's in his job description. (Even though he technically died, his "younger self" is still in the timestream, capable of visiting anywhere and anywhen.)

We know Unicron can manipulate time (Like when he yanked Galvatron II from a future timeline to use as his minion in the present) so it makes sense that he can travel through time. The only incongruity with this is if he is indeed a single entity hopping through timelines, then why would the Unicron singularity mess with him while he was in the Universe.. err.. Universe. It either wouldn't have happened to him yet, or would have been in his past; either way he wouldn't have gotten sucked into it from a different universe unless he either was a multiple Universe entity like Primus, or the singularity is something that winds up being both in his past and his future an infinite ammount of times.--[[User:UndeadScottsman|UndeadScottsman]] 07:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

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Wasn't The Last Autobot called such, because he was the last Autobot made by Primus? Shouldn't he have been one of the 13?

Or am I totally off base here? Again.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Without more information, it's impossible to say. As far as I can tell, he's unique to the G1 comic continuity. Though he otherwise bears a number of striking resemblences to Vector Prime. In any case, this debate is probably better suited for [[Talk:Last_Autobot]].

T^he last Autobot was a name given to him by those who came later, not Primus. He's also known as The Ultimate Warrior and The Soulof Cybertron. He is convieniently refered to as TLA by fans because 1) his true name was never revealed 2) That was the tittle of one of the issues of the Marvel comic, giving the most 'weight' to that name of his 3. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
:(Part of comment deleted. I misread your statement. Sorry.) TLA is actually referred to as such by Optimus Prime on several occasions. It was in fact the title of issue #79 (something to keep in mind for disambiguation!), and Spike Witwicky also refers to himself as "TLA" in that issue. But at the same time, I'd say it's reasonably obvious that "TLA" is not the name Primus gave him.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
------------------------------------
As well as being mentioned in a Japanese timeline, Alpha Trion actually specically states that he is "a first generation product of Vector Sigma" in the TV show. Can't be sure of the episode offhand, but is very probably The Key To Vector Sigma.

I think that this may rule him out of being one of the Thirteen. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

:Really? I would have thought it made Alpha Trion an especially good candidate. I guess it comes down to what one considers Vector Sigma to be.... (By the way, please use signatures!)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 16:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Every flashback to the birth of the 13 shows them arising full-born from the ground. No Vector Sigma involved. Trion may be among the first of the first 'production generation' that came after that. (This, of course, holds up only until they retcon it, but ancient as Trion always seemed ot me- it was never 'ancient enough to be one of the 13.') -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::::Certainly a plausible interpretation. But I wouldn't consider the matter closed one way or the other.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure the thirteen were supposed to have been created BEFORE Primus became Cybetron. Vector Sigma apparently also pre-dated Cybertron, but I figure Vector Sigma wasn't pressed into service creating Transformers immediately. Infact, probably not 'till the Quintessons came along and installed the shell program that became the Oracle. But as you say, this period of Transformers pre-history is notoriously sketchy. I'll certainly be interested to see if they ever fill in the gaps. -[[User:TheTurnipKing|TTK]]

::::::The only pre-Cybertron Transformers I know of are from the text story [[Reaching the Omega Point]]. Before Primus trapped himself and Unicron in the planetoids, he had to be sure that the trick wour work, and that he would be able to shape his prison. So he shunted a bit of his essence into some lifeless rock and created the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]], 12 Transformers based on our Earth zodiac. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 12:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Implicitly, [[Primon]] must also have been created before Cybertron, since we know he predates Prima as Matrix-holder and we know Prima was the first Transformer created on Cybertron. (Which may actually also imply that the Liege Maximo predates Cybertron... -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::: Doesn't the Leige Maximo say though that when the first named Prime "rose from Cybertron" or something like that that he did too. That definately implies They were created there. Primon I think is simply an annomoly, a glitch in Furman's telling of the story that will likely never be followed up on.
::::::::: [[:Image:Liegemaximo.jpg|Here's the text]]. Considering we don't know when the "first named Prime" was created, that's a meaningless statement, so it's not helpful to us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't this page be at "Thirteen original Transformers"? It would certainly make the bold part at the beginning look better. -[[User:LV|LV]] 06:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
: Done. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

=="Original"?==
Are these guys REALLY the first TFs? My reading of the stories puts the Covenant before them, since the whole idea of the Covenant being a test-run makes any functional predecessors nonsensical. I suppose the argument could be made that The 13 are fundamentally different beings from the rest of Transformerdom - maybe even easier for Primus to create - and a test was still necessary to determine if he could make creatures that were fully mired in space-time. (Though the Covenant was still AWARE of multi-dimensional events, and in fact seemed to serve much the same purpose as The 13...)

But even that aside, there's still the practical notion that The 13 were created ''for'' Cybertron, and Cybertron didn't exist yet when the Covenant was created. So, that having been said, what's the evidence that The 13 are actually "original"?

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:Basically: they aren't. If you include the Covenant, the Thirteen aren't the "original" Transformers at all, since they are necessarily predated by the Covenant for all the reasons you cite, as well as, inferentially, Primon and the Liege Maximo. Functionally, they are referred to as the "original thirteen" or "first thirteen" regardless of this, probably because not even Furman thinks about the Covenant when writing TF backstory. I think for logistical purposes it remains a useful name for them on this wiki - without it, they basically don't have any meaningful group name, and that's inconvenient - but I do think there should be some kind of indication in this article that some Transformers are more original than these fellows. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

== The Ancients ==

I'm not sure where to place it, so I put it here as, um, sorta reference. :) --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 08:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:In the original Japanese dub of "Galaxy Force", [[Vector Prime]] is depicted as one of "The Ancients".

:According to the background settings of ''Galaxy Force'' anime, "The Ancients" is the earliest Transformers in the world/continuity of "Galaxy Force" (not "Cyertron").

:Though "The Thirteen" is mentioned by [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html The World of Transformers], the site doesn't confirm that "The Thirteen = The Ancients" by far. What the site only mentioned is that there are two theories of the origin of Transformer race.

:So, by far, The Ancients is not the same group as The Thirteens, unless someday comes up an official information stating they are the same.
::Agreed. So shouldn't someone take the Logos Prime person off? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 17:26, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

== Logos Prime ==

He's in both the confirmed and possible lists. Which is it? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Magnus Maximus moved it to possible, Walky added to confirmed but didn't remove the possible, MM removed the duplicate in "confirmed", Walky blocked MM over it and readded it to "confirmed" while still leaving it in "possible". - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:12, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:: Argh, there's MORE stuff to change back? Is this the same dude we were reverting before? Some dude out there has a really serious hate-on for this Logos Prime thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Uhm... I don't think content was deleted here, just the "confirmed" status of Logos Prime questioned.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:14, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::What's left to confirm? The evidence is stacked up. Logos Prime would have to be the red herring of red herrings to not be what this wiki says, and that's kind of ridiculous. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Derik, what the hell. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:43, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Y'know, ''by definition'' if this 13 crap covers THEWHOLEENTIRETFMULTIVERSEBYE, then Macaddam should be in "confirmed"... :p - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Not in a story that is specifically stated to be non-canon, "just for fun." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:15, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::On a multiverse level, it's impossible NOT to be canon. Which is one of my major problems with this whole pile, actually. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::[[Author intent]] should be something this wiki describes and leaves up to individual fan judgment--not something we firmly take sides on in establishing internal-to-story facts. The entire reason we have articles for the "real" Transformer characters [[Geosensus]] and [[Paddles]] is that Cian's proviso is contradicted by the pre-existing context of a TF Multiverse, which I suspect he never knew existed. Having said that, Legends never actually specifically says Maccadam is one of the 13; it says he's multiversal, which fulfills ''half'' of the joke from the Ultimate Guide.<--Thy, can't login on IE.

So... MM moved the info (not '''deleted''' it, '''moved'''), Walky put the info back in the old place thus meaning the info was now put twice on the page, then banned MM because he removed one of the duplicate instances? Just making sure I got this straight. 
And no, MM is not the same guy we were reverting before. MM is the guy who's been adding a lot of valuable info like missing covers and stuff on the commercial bumper and scene transition pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:16, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, you got it straight. He originally blocked him for a month as "YOU ARE DELETING CONTENT RIGHT NOW", then cut it to a week as "It's not smart to get in a revert war with an admin." - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::Well, then, remind me never to correct any mistakes, because I apparently might get reverted and banned for it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:50, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::That occurred to me too... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:So the original change was related to the previous discussion on this talk page about the Ancients not being the same thing as the first Thirteen? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
::Correct. [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=301252&oldid=301026 MM edit 1 diff], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301252 Willis adds a duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301254 MM removes duplicate], [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Thirteen_original_Transformers&diff=next&oldid=301257 Willis reverts previous edit]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:::Based on this, I'm going out on a limb here and unbanning the guy. Seems like a pretty draconian punishment over what appears to be mostly a misunderstanding. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:58, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, that was fun. Thanks for getting this situation sorted, guys. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 09:31, 29 May 2009 (EDT)

== Nexus Maximus ==

The five silhouettes next to Vector Prime seem to strongly resemble the individual components of Nexus Maximus, and since the five are both Transformers and part of a being considered "one of the thirteen", is it possible that they are numbered members as well? I mean, technically they are five transformers that were created in the first batch, so maybe?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I would say no. Nexus Maximus is a member of the 13, but his 5 component pieces aren't. [[Special:Contributions/76.240.201.195|76.240.201.195]] 18:39, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

==Defiance==
To be clear - is that image depicting the trans-dimensional whatsits, or the first batch of "Transformers" made to serve them?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 06:09, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
:The first batch of "Transformers." There are actually two more in a different panel but this was the best group shot. [[:Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|This is]] the creation of the trans-dimensional whatsits. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 07:50, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, then the text needs to make that clearer, because right now it reads as if it's equating these Seekers/Constructicons with the Fallen and such.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 17:42, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

== Trans-dimensional AllSpark creations ==

Zuh? Why not The Thirteen?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:Well, they aren't Transformers for one thing. They are a separate race. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:15, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::...but we have no reason to believe they're not The Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:16, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh. Hmmm. The 13 aren't Transformers? That article should be renamed then. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:20, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::The article is just... I don't know. I don't think it conveys information. I think if anything it ''obfuscates'' information to obey some sort of semantic point.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:24, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::They do play the same general role. It didn't occur to me that they might be the 13 since they aren't Transformers. The articles would have to be merged carefully. In the live-action continuity there is the Fallen's race ''and'' 13 original Transformers (which would be the first 13 beings of the new Transformer's race). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:41, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::You invented what amounts to a fan term to explain what you believe to be a contradiction. We are needlessly multiplying entities here.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:31, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::The Fallen: "It gave us workers, but they were ''not like us''. They were special and were to be the first of ''your race''. Creatures born with the ability to change their forms." It seems pretty clear the Fallen's kind aren't Transformers. The Fallen could be distorting the facts, I suppose (he is The Fallen), or has a fuzzy memory. I'm not against merging this with the 13 Transformers, but I would be interested in how it was explained. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:48, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I dunno, saying that the Fallen and his brothers "aren't Transformers" seems to me to be a bit like saying we shouldn't have [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] in the Female Transformers category. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 22:07, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::Hell, half the Matrix Guides, including Alpha Trion, shouldn't be considered Transformers! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:09, 27 May 2009 (EDT)
::That doesn't seem to be a contradiction at all, Starfield. Even in the original continuity that had the thirteen, wasn't transformation an invention from later on? And Vector Prime still was eventually able to do it, so it's not unreasonable to assume that while the Trans-dimensionals weren't ''born'' with the ability to change their form, they modified themselves to do it. Which is why the Fallen can turn into a space fighter now.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 07:47, 28 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I still propose nuking it, but until we get consensus on that, I'm putting the shenanigans tag on it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:54, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Call me crazy, but I have this feeling there may be an actual name for these dudes soon. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:08, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::And on what are you basing this? I keep asking this, but you keep making up unofficial terms for things.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:15, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::The ROTF adaptation comic. I understand we aren't supposed to use that yet for spoiler reasons. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:22, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Okay, let me spell this out. There is at present no definition of this term you've invented that does not completely overlap with the Thirteen. Every member of the Thirteen is one of these, and every one of these is one of the Thirteen. Even if we accept that this is somehow a meaningful term, there is no way to separate it from the Thirteen. To pretend otherwise is to be painfully obtuse.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:14, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Nuke it from orbit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:18, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:Y'all kinda seem to be jumping down Starfield's throat... IITC the Transdimensional beings page was created as a sorta precautionary things back then Alliance was still coming out when we weren't sure how it'd play out-- or even if the Fallen was a multiversal singularity. (We thought probably yes, but there was room foe debate, and the movie stuff IS '''awfully''' messy.)
:...of course it's just as likely that I'm missing something, in which case, please proceed tearing him a new transdimensional arsehole. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:29, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'd like a transdimensional arsehole. I bet it would mean you wouldn't even have to get up to go to the bathroom. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:30, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::I'm not taking it personally. It always was kind of a sloppy placeholder. I honestly thought they were going a different direction when I read Defiance 4, but now it looks like it is shaping up pretty good continuity wise. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:41, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's all well and good, but the article, as well as his defense of the term, continued long after its (however dubious) usefulness expired. So, I've nuked the article and archived the discussion here for posterity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:36, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh, is ''that'' what's going on? ''<tt>slowpoke.jpg</tt>''
::::Well, I've certainly been there myself! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:38, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

== Prima ==

Why is Prima on this list? I would have thought Primon would be the more likely choice m'self. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:01, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:He is confirmed in at least one continuity as the first Cybertronian. Thus, he's the first of the Thirteen. Funny, innit?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:03, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Which continuity, and sauce? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:45, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Marvel G1. Not explicitly stated, but able to be deduced.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::::But I don't think Prima should be on there. Primon seem to predate him/her.
::::If a guidebook SAID Prima was one of the 13 or something, that'd be different. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:22, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Well here's how it goes, we have a Marvel G1 issue and a Marvel G2 issue which depict the first Cybertronian. One of those issues depicts said first Cybertronian as the first Matrix-Bearer. Marvel G1 also has a litany of the Matrix-Bearers which the Creation Matrix itself recites at several times during Matrix Quest, thus establishing this figure, though visually quite different the two times we see him, as Prima. So, insofar as anything can be consistent within Marvel G1 given the vast artistic differences which sprang up, the first Cybertronian and first Matrix-Bearer is Prima.

Pri''mon'' however has a far more fuzzy pedigree, a smaller corpus of source material establishing him, and his membership in the Thirteen is also predicated upon the Liege Maximo being a member, which is ''probable'', but as we've discussed before never really confirmed in official source material.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:Your answer is full of fail and conjecture.
:Nevertheless, it got ''me'' to check the source material. The Ultimate Guide explicitly says Prima is one of the 13 on page 15. Further, Prima is their '''leader'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:40, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Were I not at work, I could have done the same. But alas, I am limited until I hop in my car and drive home. I still say my answer is close enough for government work, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:43, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
{{quote|In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.|Tocqueville}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:50, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
=="New Divide" video==
Hey, uh, there seems to be a very short clip of what appear to be silhouettes of some of the Thirteen... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:36, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:Which one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:51, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
::I wonder which one Vector Prime is! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
:::So can any of our U.K. friends confirm or deny if these are indeed the Thirteen? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:13, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Weeellll... okay, spoilers to be safe... they ARE the Primes, the original Transformers, as it were. But... if I heard the dialogue right, and I'm not SWEARING that I did, but I have seen other people say they heard the same thing... IN the film itself... there are stated to only SEVEN of them. And the events of Defiance are really... at odds with the movie , too. In the gentlest terms. Honestly, I was watching the movie, and every so often something happened to make me go "Aw, fuck, the wiki's going to have its work cut out for it here." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, there's a mistake in there. Seven is definitely the number. The Fallen being so named because he chose to eradicate life in his quest for Energon (think Captain Ranson in Star Trek Voyager "Equinox"). Optimus Prime is apparently their last descendant (how they know this is not explained, nor is the concept of Primes, and why only a Prime can defeat the Fallen, when it looks like anybody can do what Prime finally did). Oh, and none of them look like any of our Primes. In fact they all look like the Fallen (customisers should be buying multiple Fallen toys to make them!) [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 20:05, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

:What a pain. Yet I think that will probably make patching things around the 13 easier.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:11, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
::The only thing that would make this work with past information is if the Thirteen aren't multiversal singularities, and since the Powers That Be reconfirmed that at Botcon, I can only assume (or hope) that they have something planned for the Thirteen that will straighten this out. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:21, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::You have to remember, there's already the "oddity" that the birth of these guys 13 doesn't really match other depictions-- and the AllSpark being some sort of sun-destroying monstrosity is... not very Primus-y. I think there's definitely wiggle room here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:25, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Oddly, the adaptations say 13. How do we know what we know about the AllSpark and harvesters and the original Transformers? There is only one of them left. He wouldn't lie for his own purposes would he? They could, if they wanted, make much of the ROTF backstory be a load of bullcrap made up by The Fallen. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:46, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Maybe we can wilfully ignore {{redact|the seven thing as a mistake like Brawl/Devastator? In the Feb 2009 issue of Toyfare, producer [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] stated that The Fallen was a member of The Thirteen, and that we should think of the Thirteen as "apostles". So clearly, the movie production did number the Primes as thirteen quite late into post production.}} --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::"Mistakes" do happen in fiction, and we acknowledge them as such. (The art errors in the marvel comic, for example.)
::::::So even if the {{redact|the ancient Primes being the 13}} is a mistake, that still leaves us with The Fallen being The Fallen.
::::::The real question is how ''subsequent'' fiction addresses this. If it keeps re-iterating {{redact|the ancient Primes are the 13}} then that's a problem we have to deal with.
::::::I'm really beginning to suspect that the end scenario is going to be {{redact|there were some ancient beings, 7 in one story, 13 in another}} and just void any connection to the 13 entirely-- then figure out how to deal with The Fallen being The Fallen separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Also, re:{{redact|Devastator... there was a comment on the Brawl talk page recently claiming that the letters page to Titan #3 said that Devastator and Brawl are separate near-identical Transformers.}} Can McSweeny confirm whether this is true or not? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

So I'm watching [http://emopanda.com/tmp/eps/Linkin_Park_-_New_Divide.mp4 New Divide] and I'm confused... is the screencap Walky posted above {{redact|from the beginning of the movie, where everyone was working in the valley, or the end, during SAM's NDE}}? Can someone who's seen the movie answer this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:20, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Haha, this is where it gets {{redact|metaphysical. Sam dies, and the Matrix (which at this point in the film has disintegrated into dust and is kept in a rolled up sock) merges with Sam. The next scene then features Sam in Heaven/The Matrix/Nirvana/The Tunnel with the Light at the End where he meets the Seven Prime/Fallen Clones. They tell him that they have been watching him and that the Matrix is not an object but a state of mind/personality quality, and he's got it, so go wake up from this death and kick some ass. He then is resurrected and the Matrix is now completely reformed into its key/boomerang formation, which he then sticks into Prime's chest. But then somebody else steals it again to stick into the Fallen's Galvatron Machine from the UK comics}} [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 08:04, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Yes I know this. I've read the book. I construe from your response that this screencap is from the latter half of the movie? (It's a yes or no question... god forbid you manage to ''explicitly'' answer it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::That's a yes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:52, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

It actually works out pretty easily. Those seven don't have to be the ''only'' members of the Thirteen, just the ones that gave their lives to seal The Fallen away and secure the Star Harvester.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:17, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:Except there are multiple versions of "Movie" continuity (IDW and Titan) and the original 13 are singularities... so how do these 7 manged to die '''twice''' and their corpses show up in different universes? {{redact|for that matter, how does The Fallen manage to die in multiple continuities? He has but one life to give for the Multiverse!}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:24, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::Transformers: The Movie Universe implies that The Fallen has to work to maintain corporeality in a universe. It is possible that killing the physical form of one of the Thirteen is nowhere near as final as it may sound.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:26, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

:::Would Vector Prime's fate at the end of Cybertron support that? I have only passing knowledge of that show but didn't they show him fighting on in some other dimension after his "Death"? That could work on the same principle.--[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 07:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Vector Prime was shown to be fighting Galvatron in the end-credits montage, so he's clearly not completely dead. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:36, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I don't know about Galaxy Force, but in Cybertron, the speech that Vector Prime gave before he died made it sound like if he died in that universe, he would continue to exist in the multiverse but be barred from re-entering that particular universe.

== Logos Prime ==

If the Fallen represents Entropy, and Vector Prime represents time... what would Logos Prime represent? His hub-ship-thing seems to be tied to his "area of responsibility" somehow... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:55, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Opposition or competition? Some kind of "Balancing forces" deal, probably, judging by the story.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::So... "Logos" arguably, logic? 10:39, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think their given names actually have anything to do with their charge - Vector isn't in charge of directions, and Nexus is in charge of Energon, not connections. Maybe the name's are personally chosen, or represent their personalities?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 12:27, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:Maybe LP would have been the gaurdian of knowlegde or information? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:03, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

== Twelve Apostles ==

Would it be at all acceptable to mention somewhere on the page the obvious basis of Jesus and the twelve apostles, or even how specific members of the Thirteen seem to be based on specific apostles?

For example:
*Prima is the chosen leader of the thirteen, carries Primus lifeforce in the form of the matrix (and so, is Primus's "child"), and his name even fits the ancient roman naming scheme for your children (well, daughters) - remove "us", fit "a".
*The Fallen is obviously Judas.
*Vector Prime appears to fit the role of Peter - the most loyal, who serves throughout time safeguarding the Transformers. He certainly acts like a space-pope, anyway.

Of course, beyond that, there's unlikely to be any use of the archetype, but would it at least be worth mentioning?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 04:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:We have a good source for that comparison with [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]]'s interview in ''Toyfare'' (February 2009). [[Special:Contributions/79.67.234.198|79.67.234.198]] 05:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:I say we don't have enought info though. Afterall, we don't know about the Logo Prime or Nexus Maximus people. --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 14:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::We know that the group as a whole is supposed to act as apostles to Primus. And yes, we can't really fit Logos or Nexus to a historical apostle, but we're extremely unlikely to, because beyond Jesus, Judas, and Peter, the various apostles are only really remembered for Catholic feast holidays, and aren't that culturally significant.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 14:22, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh,yeah...except for 'doubting Thomas'. OK --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 18:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
: I think pointing out the 12 disciples exclusively is kind of the wrong move to make at the outset. Group-of-13-and-one-betrays-them is a mythological constant. Like, say, Loki! He storms a group of 12 at Valhalla! It's linked into the superstition about the number 13, which is considered unlucky. Stories would use it for group numbers as foreshadowing! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::Except "Group of thirteen Apostles and one of them is a chosen son of the singular God" is not so much a mythological constant. Unless Zoroastrianism has it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 03:39, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

==Split 7 Primes from the 13==

There's really nothing to suggest in the film that the 7 are part of the original Transformers. They're just referred to as the leaders of the race. The Fallen's the only one clearly linked to the 13 [[User: Eire|Eire]] 23.58 June 23 09
: Maybe the missing 6 Primes are Vector Prime, Logos Prime, Nexus Prime, the Liege Maximo, Primon, and Some Other Dude, all having adventures elsewhere! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:46, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
::but how? the comic states that The Fallen killed them all so how can they be having adventures in other universes if they're truly omniversial or what ever the f**k they're supposed to be. Anyway I think the idea behind the 13 is crap anyway. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 04:03, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: It's been stated since the Dreamwave era that the original 13, save the Fallen, all died in an early battle with Unicron. And yet Vector Prime! (Who died but didn't.) And Logos Prime! And Nexus Maximus! Tales of these guys' deaths have been greatly exaggerated. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::I found what the film states to be ambigious. It didn't say "there were 7 Primes, and that's all that ever existed." --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:14, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:::: Jetfire said there were 7 Primes leading, and one went bad. I'm not saying that they're the only ones because clearly they weren't (Sentinel and Optimus get a mention after all) but conceptually there seems to be a difference between the 13 originals and just 7 powerful Primes. Apart from the Fallen, it just seems to be a concept loosely connected at best [[User:Eire]] 12.40 June 24th 09

I think we'd be best served, at least, creating a "see main article" for the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and discussing the characters there. Not necessarily splitting it, and certainly merging it back in if any ancillary material clarifies the matter, but we're probably not helping any newbies who have just seen the film and want to read about these characters (if you could go so far as to call these non-entities that), only to wind up deeply confused over why we're insisting there are 13 of them and that they didn't turn in a tomb and such. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:19, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

== So They're not all Primes! ==

According to the Hasbro Q&A they are not all Primes, only 7 are. How do we reconsile that with the opening quote. I mean I get it's a retcon but how do we explain it in a sensible ay on this page? Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:35, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:Where were all 13 called "Primes"? Also, from the answer, it seems Hasbro is calling them "The 13". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:40, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

<blockquote style="background:white; padding:1em; border:1px solid #999;">
{{quote|We are the 13, the first, the forgotten, each of us serving a function vital to the survival of the universe. '''Each of us designated a ''Prime''''' and given a function to serve during the long march of infinity.|Vector Prime|"[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]"}}
</blockquote>

::Read the opening quote on this page, Starfield. Actual story material > Q&A answers, in my view. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

::::I vote for "Actual story material > Q&A answers", too. Sometimes I just think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers. By the way, there are only four confirmed members of the The Thirteen, and I don't consider Seven Prime equal The Thirteen despite what Hasbro say, since their origins are quite and obvious different. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:10, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::"Sometimes I think HASBRO Q&A are less professional than the writers"? You do realize that [[Forest Lee]] is both the writer of that Vector Prime: In the Beginning quote and the guy who answers the fiction-related answers for the Q&As? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:03, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yes, I know. Well, I admit I wrote the above too soon (due to the rush of breakfast) and a bit emotional. Of course I didn't mean all of them(the answers, not the answerer), just some of the answers make me have such feeling like this. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:29, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::I don't know. Our criteria for what is canon is "anything that Hasbro approves" since they are the ultimate authority for cannonicity if they come right out and say (As they now have) only 7 of "The Thirteen" were Primes the other 6 were not than that retcon would be the new cannon I think. Especially since it "kinda" patches an existing continuity glitch. Now I admit that claim will be stronger when Hasbro actually releases some story covering this period as they just said they will be doing shortly somehow. But even without that it is a retcon and official I'd say. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 20:52, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

:::Hey! I completely missed the quote. I was looking for a citation somewhere. I agree that story > answers. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:07, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Offhand, I'd say that the notion of the "Seven Primes" as opposed to the Thirteen showed up waaaaaaaaay late in the final drafts of Revenge of the Fallen, and thus too late for the adaptations to incorporate it. After all, they even were working up CGI models for all of the Thirteen. It is entirely possible that this change blindsided even Hasbro, and thus they're trying to spackle it up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

I really kinda disagree with reverting the article to the pre-Hasbro-retcon state, as I think it's puting too little weight on Hasbros statement of what is the "truth". But I'm willing to let it go for now, since Hasbro seems to have plans to bring this all to the fore with some sort of fictional spotlight in the near future, we can deal with making the necessary changes when and if that material materializes. :) --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 22:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

== Female 13 member ==
OK. As of a day or two ago, Hasbro says that one of the 13 is female. Boards are already complaining that this messes with established continuity (IDW, Marvel comics). I'm not convinced this is a huge problem, but it does occur to me that, at the moment, there is no canon to support this claim. Only Hasbro's Q&A response, which might be argued as [[authorial intent]] or [[pseudocanon]]. As something not yet confirmed in canon (but only signaled as possible for the future), should it be included here at this time?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 14:52, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

== "Original Epic Warriors"? ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63609] --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 26 November 2009 (EST)

==A Math Joke?==
I've been studying for the GRE, so excuse my nerdiness as a result of quantitative overload: if we go with the Hasbro Q&A response, there are 7 Primes out of 13 original transformers... there are six prime numbers in the set of thirteen positive integers: '''2, 3, 5, 7, 11,''' and '''13''' itself. In addition, a prime number can only be divided by itself or '''1''', making a total of seven mathematical prime-related numbers. It might be assuming too much of Hasbro to consider this a deliberate gag for the nerdiest fans, but if it's a just a coincidence, it's a strange one... should this be noted in the article? [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)
:Exploring that more; [[Prima]] is the '''first''' transformer (and despite bearing the Matrix, is not ''named'' "Prime", but might ''be'' one?), [[Nexus Prime|Nexus Prime]] is made of '''five''' parts, and we also know of [[Logos Prime|Logos Prime]] and [[Vector Prime]], and [[the Fallen]] was a Prime before he... fell. Have any number-related concepts been tied to those last three? I want to assume the Fallen was the '''thirteenth''' of the originals, being furthest from his creator's original design as the last of the batch, and due to the negative connotations of the number; and a ''vector'' can be defined as the course or direction of movement between '''two''' points. [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 12:09, 21 February 2010 (EST)

== Exodus Info ==

'''SPOILERS for TF Exodus'''

So Exodus gives us two or three new names for members of the Thirteen.

First there's Megatronus. This is very strongly implied to be the Fallen's original name. But it is still just implied from what I could see. They never come right out and talk about the 13 backstory at length and say the Fallen is Megatronus it just sorta makes the most sense for him to be, given what they do say, if you know the story. So how official do we want to treat that connection?

Second there's Alpha Trion. There's been a lot of chatter that certain stories (especially his evil SG counterpart) breaks the whole "Multiversal Singularity" thing if he's a 13er which he now is. Do we need a note to that effect.?

Lastly is the most questionable case. After talking about Megatronus as a legend at one point a character then mentions Leige Maximo in the next breath as the same type of legendary figure. This could be read as placing him as a 13er as well, but it's never explicately stated clearly. Does it deserve a note, at least in the potential area?

Thoughts?
--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:51, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:Megatronus? I can just imagine the millions of potential joke opportunities that this name comes with.
:Sorry. Anyway, we should have a note next to the Fallen's listing in the confirmed 13ers category saying "Look, his name may or may not be Megatronus." or something to that effect.
:A3 is a huge continuity headache, and we should probably be careful. So, yes, we should definitely have a note.
:And finally, the Liege Maximo isn't ''that'' questionable, but we should keep him in the "possible 13ers" category until other fiction appears and confirms or disproves that.

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:23, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

:(Purely personal speculation) I think Megatronus might be Liege Maximo's original name. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:08, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::As I'm not very familiar with most of the fictions, is there any reason "the Fallen" and "Liege Maximo" couldn't be the same guy? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:13, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::One of them is not on fire and doesn't exactly seem to serve Unicron? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:16, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Has LM ever been in the same story as Unicron? The fire thing seems very minor. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:25, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::LM does sort of resemble an overweight ROTF The Fallen. A little bit. If Megatronus were Liege Maximo, "Megatronus" would be his name, not his "original" name, since "Liege Maximo" is a title. To answer your question, Unicron was quite dead when we first meet Liege Maximo, and there isn't really room in the story for them to have met off-panel in the past. The Fallen and Liege Maximo aren't remotely the same character, but I suppose that could always be retconned. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:01, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Fallen - name forgotten, created alongside first Primes, founder of Decepticons, purged of morality
::::::Liege Maximo - name unknown, created alongside first Prime, ancestor of Decepticons, ultimate evil
::::::Sounds more than remotely similar to me. But I'm not saying it's true, just an idea that bounced around in my head. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:20, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Also no room in ~13.7 billion years for them to have met off panel? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:39, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::Megatronus Prime is '''NOT''' the Liege Maximo. We know that for sure as they're named one after the other as seperate beings at one point. And we know for SURE that Megatronus is one of the 13. The info the book gives makes suuggestions that make it VERY, VERY likely he is the Fallen, they just don't say it out bluntly. So Megatronus should get a "confirmed" entry even if we're not going to make the (certainly intended) leep and connect the two. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:43, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::That's the thing with myths and legends, one being can become split into multiple characters or multiple characters get merged into one with retellings. Just because there are separate legends Megatronus and Liege Maximo doesn't mean that further developments won't reveal them to be the same being. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:49, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
::::That's irrelevant. Unless there's "anything" to suggest it at all in the Canon, it's just "making stuff up" and has no place on this wiki, which is what we're discussing. There's nothing in the book that in any way even hints of hinting that MP might be the LM, where there are lots of clearly very intentional details linking him to The Fallen.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:00, 23 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Oh, I thought you were responding to TX55's clearly labeled "purely personal speculation". I had no intention of anything I said being put in the article. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:04, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

== Toy Section ==

Should it stay or go? If it stays do we list EVERY toy of EVERY one of the Original 13? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:10, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:I'm for just excising it entirely. It's not exactly a toy gimmick like other subgroups are, and anybody who's interested in the toys can just scoot over to the characters' pages. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:50, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::That's what I was thinking, I just wanted to bring it up before slashing it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

==Alpha Trion==
I'd also note that we need to add Alpha Trion to the confirmed members. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:24, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:Doesn't that mean that we need to combine all the [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]] articles? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:30, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::I don't know. It kind of makes my brain hurt. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:35, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::The thing about Alpha Trion is, he really is the same basic character in every universe. "Wise Ancient Autobot closely connected to Vector Sigma and/or records of Cybertronian history". Except for that one where he's a murdering looney. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:41, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::The murdering looney is just the inversion of his resurrecting Prime and Elita (and maybe Magnus). Healer and killer are moral opposites. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:47, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::If the Thirteen travel between the various universes, I ''suppose'' it's possible that the weight of knowing everything that was or will be, in ''each and every universe'' eventually pushes Trion over the edge.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:49, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Didn't somebody say that the universe they were in could affect a singularity? I just figured this was an example of that. AT in the negative polarity universe exhibits inverted morality. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:54, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::SG Alpha Trion was the same in the TransTech universe. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Yeah, he was batslag and scheming during his time in Axiom Nexus, just better at hiding it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::I'm sure there's enough wiffle-waffle in Forest Lee's bullshit-fu answer to the multiversal singularity question to cover it. Maybe this is just one iteration of Trion when he is a "quantum event", playing out the potential question of "What if dude was evil?" until it eventually collapses and reverts. Or something. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:58, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Actually, to throw another kink into things, Animated Alpha Trion is not a historian, has no connection to any Vector Sigma, and indeed Wyatt, at least, says Animated has no multiversal singularity anything in it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Authorial intent can be overruled by the iron fist of Hasbro. If Hasbro says Alpha Trion is always a historian with a connection to Vector Sigma who exists in all universes, then Wyatt be slagged, that's what he is. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|22:53, 27 June 2010}}
::::::Sorry, but for me authorial intent can only be overruled by later canon fiction in the exact same continuity, not by a completely different continuity written by someone with no connection to the other one. Especially since changing Alpha Trion's role or adding in Vector Sigma where it doesn't exist would be changing actual ''canon'' as well, not just authorial intent.
::::::(Plus, if Hasbro actually wanted to wield its iron fist, they would have enforced the singularities being written into Animated in the first place.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Thing is, Animated continuity by itself (completely ignoring the words of Wyatt and Isenberg) doesn't create any mutual exclusivities because it didn't take a side either way. Hasbro didn't put down it's iron fist because they didn't need to yet.[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 00:53, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Except that if Hasbro wanted the singularities in Animated, then Isenberg and Wyatt would not be saying those things at all to begin with, since they wouldn't be the case. (Or they'd at the very least be saying "We didn't want to, but Hasbro made us" or something.) Plus, the Allspark and no Vector Sigma contradict Primus and the VS Gestalt, at least.
::::::::(I've never ever understood why the wiki is 95% sticklers for canon, except for this one case, where suddenly fanwank speculation and authorial intent (from authors who aren't even involved with the continuities in question, to boot) suddenly reigns supreme, sometimes even over actual canon.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Seriously? You're saying that Hasbro's official call on the matter ''isn't'' canon? You're not making sense here. A3 being one of the 13 is not fanwank speculation, and it looks like to me you're misunderstanding the definition of authorial intent. Wyatt and Isenberg's opinion doesn't matter because it didn't make it into the actual fiction, and it wasn't going to, because it undermines the multiversal (with singularities) framework that Hasbro is finally getting to brass tacks on. And let's face it, backpedaling at the point they are at right now isn't a good idea by any stretch of the standard. Hasbro never commented on Wyatt/Isenberg's idea because it wasn't an issue yet, more of a "well, we'll let them think so for the time being, until the fiction actually gets to that point".[[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 02:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Derrick Wyatt also said, on several occasions, that as far as he is concerned there are no Primus and Unicron in the Animated universe. And I'm afraid his opinion doesn't count there, since the multiversal god conceit predates his work and is much bigger than it. As I end up pointing out here semi-regularly, authors have gotten stuff wrong before and we just mark it down as a trivia note. --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.134.205|74.73.134.205]] 14:39, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::So, a tiny mention of an idea in a completely different and unrelated continuity that's already been explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities, somehow counts more than actual canon fiction AND the word from someone who directly worked on a continuity and knows for a fact what the writers actually intended for it. Especially seeing as how even Furman, who ''invented'' Primus and Unicron, was explicitly going to write them out of IDW as well.
::::::::::::...OK, man, if believing something that illogical makes you happy, more power to you, I guess. Me, I don't presume to think I know better than the creators themselves when it comes to what is and isn't in their work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:02, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Animated A3 behaves no differently from every other version we've ever seen. They're all eccentric but basically normal-seeming old dudes who have hints of great influence and age. Been that way ever since KtVS. ''Exodus'' comes out and says that this normal-seeming-eccentric-old-dude does indeed have great age and great influence. What is the difference now? They're just firmly putting boundaries on all the hints we've gotten for 25 years. From a story perspective there is nothing wrong with it at all; is the only problem really that the writer of this particular series said otherwise?
:::::::::::::Hasbro is the biggest of the creators, bigger than any individual writer, so if you're going to cite this or that intention / Word Of God, it's just going to be a self-defeating exercise. "A tiny mention" in any story at all is a heck of a lot more than we ever got of "no Unicron in Animated / IDW", since none of that was ever officially published at all. And what was "explicitly declared as not applying to all continuities"? The original 13 must, by definition, apply everywhere. The multiverse conceit has been solidly established since 2003 and all those stories were vetted by Hasbro; some were even written by Hasbro (as has been mentioned here already). Neither Wyatt nor Furman nor anybody else can "intend" their way out of it. Larry DiTillio "intended" for the Vok to have created sparks and for Transformers' after-death dimension to be the Vok's Nexus Zero. This, too, is now flatly impossible noncanon, as too many rigid rules explicitly contradicting it have been published for too many years. This is what happens when your franchise sets down explicit omnipresent rules for a multiversal origin: they are, by definition, bigger than everything else. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:45, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I've already covered this. What one continuity does has nothing to do with what any other continuity does. FunPub is its own continuity. Exodus is apparently the new WFC/Prime continuity. In no other case do we ever declare what happened in one continuity has overwritten another continuity's canon, or let one continuity's author's intent overwrite another continuity's author's intent, so I don't know why this is different. (And, FunPub is no more "Hasbro" writing fiction than IDW is Hasbro writing fiction, the movie team is Hasbro writing fiction, the cartoon teams are Hasbro writing fiction, etc. They're all contracted to write fiction on behalf of Hasbro.)
::::::::::::::Sinclair explicitly stated that the Movieverse is outside of the multiverse established in FunPub fiction. Hasbro's approved a lot more continuities contradicting the idea than they have ones that do. And we've never heard word from Hasbro yet on the matter, so there's no reason yet to discount the authorial intent of the actual creators because there's no official word or canon yet to contradict them.
::::::::::::::So, no, the whole multiversal singularity idea has not been "solidly established" at all. Exactly the contrary, in fact. Maybe at some point we'll actually get official confirmation from someone at Hasbro who works with more than one continuity, or some actual fiction that explicitly takes place in each continuity that writes the matter in, and then I'll say "OK" because then there'll be actual support for the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::FunPub stories written by Forest Lee are absolutely more "Hasbro writing the fiction" than IDW, the movies, or the cartoons. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:42, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Well, you know. Except for the whole fact that FunPub stories have been stated to not apply to every universe, and Forest Lee (AFAIK) has zero to do with writing the other continuities, and it's wiki policy to consider as everything equally canon.
::::::::::::::::Especially when we're talking stories that take place in a venue that hardly anybody reads vs. more mainstream venues. I fail to see how you can even think Lee's fiction is supposed to have these big, sweeping changes to the brand when only a tiny handful of people have even heard about/read it, and probably almost none of Hasbro's target demographic. How can something that barely anyone knows about be as important as you claim?
::::::::::::::::Maybe the current fiction ''will'' actually finally firmly establish the singularity as applying to every continuity in venues where everyone can actually see it. But until that time... I love FunPub's continuity, but the fact is that it's just one continuity out of many, and it's one almost nobody reads to boot. Treating it as more important than everything else just because the wiki's (understandably) biased towards it is ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Look, you can't say "Hasbro never said this", and then when shown they did, retort with a "well, then it doesn't matter." I have no idea what Pete Sinclair thinks he is saying, as it was pointed out to him in that same Allspark thread that the Movie storyline has a multiversal stream assignment, and he's all like "yeah, but it's not in the multiverse". Once again that is a case of individual authors not being able to "break" foundational facts that have a broader scope than their own stories--and they sure can't ''THINK'' their way into breaking them without ever even bothering to put it to pen and expect it to have any validity outside their own greymatter. Come on, if you're going to dismiss FP's story material because it's so obscure and little-known, that explicitly discredits all author intent ever, which is orders of magnitude more obscure and unknown and was never even official in the first place. A Hasbro comic book with any circulation sure outranks some guy's Twitter following. The very idea of "stating certain stories not to apply" is rampant author-intentism--in this case favoring the intent of Sinclair over Lee ''in the exact same continuity and medium''. I will never view it as a valid argument. You are right to point out that this wiki treats all publications as canon. Animated A3 not-being one of the 13 was never published and is not canon. Ditto for the oxymoronic notion that the movie universe--or ANY universe--would not be part of the multiverse. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:35, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::I can say that "Hasbro has never said this" because they haven't. Meanwhile, Sinclair, who's one of FunPub's '''managing editors''' (not "just" a writer) and thus knows what FunPub fiction does and doesn't cover and affect, has said something. Yes, I'm favoring Sinclair over Lee in the same medium, the same way that what Andy Schmidt or Tipton says goes over any individual IDW writer.
:::::::::::::::::::As for authorial intent, we add it on as Trivia notes whenever it doesn't contradict actual canon. The funny thing is, the idea of the Movies and Animated being in the multiverse is equally as much authorial intent. And since it's from an author who doesn't even write or have anything to do with the Movie or Animated fiction, that means it carries even less weight than the usual authorial intent. And seeing as how Movie fiction outright contradicted IN CANON the idea of the 13 being the same as every other universe...
:::::::::::::::::::As for anything in FunPub continuity meaning anything outside of FunPub continuity itself, see Jackpot's 100% correct note below which sums up my thoughts on the matter perfectly. Nobody outside of the hardcore fans even knows about FunPub's continuity, let alone considers it anywhere near enough important to overwrite the main continuities, and that includes FunPub's own editor and the people writing the main continuities. It's only oxymoronic if you give the FunPub continuity an importance it never had in the first place, and if you don't realize that what was retconned once (if you accept the multiversal retcon) can very very easily be retconned again.
:::::::::::::::::::And there is no "Hasbro's comic books". There's IDW's comic books and FunPub's comic books. In fact, to be perfectly technical, FunPub explicitly '''does not''' have a comic book license from Hasbro! They're only allowed to produce a magazine and the BotCon convention comics. So really, claiming they're "Hasbro's comic books" is doubly wrong. IDW is--by '''license'''--Hasbro's comic book company, not FunPub. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::To be fair, I'd like to say something in defense of Thy's side of the debate: We're all trying to free our arguments from the taint of authorial intent, and I think that's part-and-parcel with a Platonic ideal of continuity that underlies our whole endeavor here. This is the notion that, stripped of all real-world references, there's a pure-fiction world where we can treat all of these stories as "real" events in a multiverse as internally consistent as actual reality. We all know this is an impossible vision, but it's there under the surface nonetheless (consider how our default writing style is to present the fiction as primary fact and relegate the real-world facts to "Trivia"). Hand-in-hand with that ideal is the discounting of any given story's real-world influence and fame. Ideally, we don't play favorites; in fact, elevating the obscure is a point of pride. And from this stripped-down, egalitarian view, what do we see? One universe is acknowledging the multiverse and making grand statements about it, while most of the rest stay basically agnostic. From an entirely in-fiction perspective, how do we deal with that, especially when those grand statements sometimes seem at odds with how other universes present themselves? Our current consensus (and I think Thy's answer, even if he hasn't approached it from exactly this direction) is to play along, to accept in-universe multiversal claims as-is, even if that means allowing other universes to get pushed around. I can understand this view; there's an appealing simplicity to it. But I'm more inclined towards Jeysie's view, which is that we should document the FunPub multiversal claims but not let them dictate our entire presentation. The result would be a little paradoxical on the surface, since the same article might have to talk about a character as both a singularity and as having multiple incarnations. But I think it can be done, and it's more true to our everything-is-canon maxim. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:21, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::Again, I think you summed up some of my own thoughts well. I'm not trying to ''discount'' the FunPub fiction; it's ''equally as'' valid a continuity as any other. I just disagree with us treating it as ''more'' canon than every other continuity, to the point where not only is FunPub fiction retconning canon in other continuities accepted, but we don't accept the notion of newer fiction in turn retconning the older FunPub fiction.
:::::::::::::::::::::Basically, there is a multiverse in FunPub's storylines, but there may or may not be a multiverse in any other storylines. So long as you accept the storylines as all being separate from a real-world perspective, this isn't really that hard to wrap one's mind around. What the writer for one universe chooses to include in their work has no bearing on what the writer for a separate universe chooses to include in ''their'' work. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:50, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::Pretty much. I developed my own view of continuity in the old days of ATT, when Raksha and Skyflight were doing their level best to drive wedges between G1 and the hated BW. I think it was in the "Star Drive"/"Nemesis" debate that it occurred to me that the best way to look at continuity between series is as moving ever forward, never backward. From the perspective of the G1 'toon, the Decepticon ship actually has no name, though "Star Drive" is a valid possibility. And now that that series is over, nothing can ever settle the question; the absence of evidence is in fact its canon. Of course, the BW 'toon adapted bits of the G1 'toon into its own backstory and gave the 'Con ship a name, which is perfectly canon for that enlarged perspective. Likewise, BW established a kind of afterlife called "the other side of the Matrix", and then BM clarified it as the "Allspark" with its own properties. From the perspective of BW, the Allspark isn't actually canon, but from the perspective of BM-plus-BW-as-its-backstory, it is. And so on. When we get to FunPub, we find a continuity that actually incorporates ''every other continuity'' into its cosmology and makes declarations about them. Which is all fine and good, and those declarations are canon from the FunPub-plus-everything-else perspective... but look at any of those everything-elses from their own perspectives, and the retcons are no longer canon.
::::::::::::::::::::::I've seen that view expressed in debates here before, but seldom. I think there's a philosophical divide among editors here, and the current dominant side believes that the perspective of the Wiki should be from the top of the retcon chain, which determines our presentation of everything else. I take a more bottom-up approach; in fact, the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]] article is an excellent demonstration of how I prefer things. I'd much rather see how an idea has evolved from series to series than see everything made to conform to the latest evolution.
::::::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 14:28, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::::What about the "Star Drive"? Was that a name pulled from the dialog? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, in "[[Microbots]]", when Scavenger is scanning the ground for traces of the ship, he says something about locating the "star drive." In all likelihood this meant the ship's engine, but one day the late ATT gadfly Skyflight announced that he had decided it was the true name of the ship, contrary to BW's claims. The usual chaos ensued. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:12, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::::Yeah, I think my approach can be classified as the "bottom-up" approach as well. I prefer to just state canon as much as-is as possible (with the occasional authorial note where it clarifies canon without contradicting it), and let the reader make up their mind for themselves how to fit it all together. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Where/when have the FP stories been stated to not apply to every universe? Just out of curiosity. I hadn't heard this before.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:51, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Sinclair mentioned on the Allspark that [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=64273&view=findpost&p=1388259 "Movie continuity is outside the multiverse."]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:58, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::That's.... very interesting to know. I think it's a perfect illustration of Jeysie's point, too: While Forest Lee may be the closest thing we have to the Mouth of Sauron, in every practical way his voice has been a squeak. He's no George Lucas, and if his multiversal-singularity foundation has really been so solidly established since 2003, then why didn't Orci and Kurtzman conform to it? Why did Pete have to hand-wave their work away? Because until possibly - ''possibly'' - now, the people who actually MATTER at Hasbro haven't given two shits about this level of continuity. And pretending like we can apply a Lucas-level primacy to the FunPub work has been and probably always will be an endless source of headaches, since other creators will keep blithely making square pegs that we bend ourselves over backwards trying to fit into Forest's round hole. (Uh.... that wasn't supposed to sound so filthy.) (Okay, it wasn't at first, but then I admit I kind of ran with it.)
:::::::::::::::::::Anyway, as to the matter at hand, I'm in favor of patience. Also of doing our damnedest to separate what's actually in the fiction from what's been said elsewhere. As others have mentioned, it's possible that the Exodus 13 aren't actually singularities, or maybe more than one being in the multiverse happens to be named "Alpha Trion"... Let's wait and see how the WFC/Exodus/Prime universe unfolds.
:::::::::::::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:50, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Thank you... that more or less sums up how I feel in a nutshell, better than I have so far. I mean, I hate sounding like I'm running down FunPub or Lee because I like their stuff, but... up until now I just don't see it as being the driving force some folks seem to wish it is, when you actually look outside the circle of us hardcore fans. We keep giving Lee and FunPub an importance that, when it comes to how things have actually worked in a practical sense, they just do not have.
::::::::::::::::::::So, I'd rather wait to see which way Hasbro is gonna bounce... whether it's retconning the retcon and letting the continuities (seemingly) continue to do what they will or won't regards the matter, or changing to making a firm and noticeable statement in favor of the matter outside of a single obscure continuity. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:09, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::I consider actual fiction canon, then authorial intent from the people who actually wrote the fiction for things that don't contradict canon. And the fact that Trion is not a historian and there's no Vector Sigma IS canon for Animated. Like I said, if Hasbro actually cared about the matter they could very very easily have made Isenberg write something in somewhere and removed all doubt, or told the creators to stop making untrue statements.
::::::::::Plus, it's not the existence of the 13 that's the problem, it's the idea of the singularity nonsense that's the problem. So far Hasbro's ''never'' said a single thing about that. All the info has been about ''the 13'' and has been related to TF: Prime; I haven't heard anything about singularities, unless there's BotCon news that wasn't reported.
::::::::::(And "official call" makes no sense. If anything, the opposite: all we've gotten is from FunPub fiction/writers, and FunPub's editor flatly said that the Movieverse, at least, is separate from FunPub's take. Meanwhile, IDW, the Movies, and Animated all have canon and statements flatly going against the singularity, and Hasbro's current statements have been about TF: Prime, not TF as a whole. So I don't get why people claim Hasbro's pushing the singularity when I've never seen a statement from them about it and they keep approving fiction that contradicts it.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:36, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Here's the problem. Hasbro HAS said officially that all the 13 are Multiversal Singularities. And they HAVE said A3 is a 13er. That's canon. That's what the wiki needs to go by. Nothing personal, but it doesn't matter what you personnally think about Authoral Intent. How like canon you make it in your own mind/fanon. That is NOT canon. It can be interesting. It can be worth mentioning on the wiki. But it is NOT CANON until it appears officially approved by Hasbro somwhere. So going by what's official the pages really need to be merged. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 06:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::No, they have not said that. The only thing I've ever seen about multiversal singularities has, like I said, come from FunPub writers and fiction. And, like I said, it's been stated directly by FunPub that at least one continuity is separate from what FunPub does. Like I also said, everything Hasbro has said about the Thirteen has only mentioned a single continuity: Exodus/TF: Prime; they haven't said the Thirteen are singularities. And, like I also also said, it's not just authorial intent but actual canon in the fiction that has contradicted the singularity idea. Fiction that was approved by Hasbro, I might add.
:::::::::::::It's you folks claiming that Hasbro is supposedly pushing the singularity that are ignoring canon and what Hasbro actually has and hasn't said. Not only that, but you are actually also going by authorial intent. In fact, you're being worse about it than I am, since you're going by authorial intent of people who have nothing to do with writing the continuities in question!
:::::::::::::So, to the contrary, going by what's official there's no reason to merge at all. Trion is a Thirteener in some continuities, yes, but that's it.
::::::::::::: When Hasbro actually comes out and says that the Thirteen are singularities and we see some actual mainstream fiction saying so--and Hasbro made the effort to explain that Zeta Prime was "Sentinel Zeta Prime", so we ''know'' they'll speak up when they actually do have problems--then I'll concede the point. Until then, all canon, official evidence, and authorial intent from the actual continuity writers, that I've seen is to the contrary, which is why the wiki's stance bugs me so much. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 09:41, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Jeysie, you do realize that when we're saying "Hasbro", we're basically saying "Forest Lee", right? The guy who wrote both the FunPub coimcs and bios dealing with the singularity thing, and is also Hasbro's bio-writer. And who answered the Q&A question about singularities. Lee saying it is "Hasbro" saying it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:59, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::And again, FunPub's come out as saying their fiction doesn't apply to at least one universe. And 99.9% of the time we don't let toy bios override the actual fiction, so I'm not sure why this case is different.
:::::::::::::::To me "Hasbro saying it" equals someone like Archer, who deals with more than just a single company's continuity or toy blurbs that often don't match up with actual fiction anyway. The whole Sentinel/Zeta Prime thing, for instance, was (AFAIK, correct me if wrong) commented on by an overseeing Hasbro person, rather than by a writer who writes for a continuity entirely separate from WFC's. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Did Hasbro know that that was the author's intent? If they never specifically mentioned those ideas, Hasbro would not have known "to put their foot down". I don't know one way or the other, but that is an unspoken assumption in your argument that needs to be examined. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:07, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I find it hard to believe that they had no clue what someone like Isenberg was planning on doing with the fiction. Especially when they've been shown to be perfectly picky about any number of minor details in the fiction, so why would they fail to worry about major ones? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:17, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Contrary to what you think, Vector Sigma DOES exist in Animated continuity (even according to Wyatt!). Read A3's Animated page. It's there. If you're going to argue a point, at least research it first. - [[Special:Contributions/72.128.51.130|72.128.51.130]] 10:38, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Again, like I said, it's not the Thirteen specifically that's the problem, it's the singularity that's the problem. There's no issue with the Thirteen existing in a continuity (any more than any other character the writers want to have existing in a continuity), it's the idea that they're some singularity that has to exist always in the same way that's the sticking point.
:::::::::Vector Sigma can exist in Animated all he wants; that doesn't prove anything except that he exists and can travel between dimensions (which is true of plenty of characters who aren't Thirteen members or singularities, so that doesn't say much on its own). And heck, Animated Alpha Trion may even be part of the Animated Thirteen for all we know--he's just not a singularity as far as Animated is concerned. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:43, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::This is probably the one thing that confuses me about the Thirteen; are they singularities in the sense that Unicron is (there's only one, and they can travel between dimensions at will), or like how Primus is (there's only one, and they exist simultaneously at all times in every universe)? That writeup that Forest did is so quantumy that I can read it either way.

:::::::: IIRC, "A3 is one of the Thirteen" is originally a speculation (or, at least, not official) until the publication of ''Exodus''. Also, I think I agree with Jeysie's argument/point. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:48, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

Considering Lee wrote Reunification, as well as the bio for Nexus Prime and the tidbits about Alpha Trion helping split up Prima's sword? Yeah, I'd wager Lee has an explanation for this waiting in the wings. I can't imagine he wasn't already planning for this at that time.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:03, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:Yeah, absolutely. There is very obviously something ''big'' planned for the Thirteen, and has been for some time, but they're either taking their time very deliberately and building slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly, or they can't quite find the right venue for the story. I can't think of a ''worse'' way to do it than through IDW, so I was quite glad when I heard that idea had been scrapped after it became "more of a Hasbro thing than an IDW thing", but it seems like something that needs more exposure than just a fanclub comic, so... I'm talking like I'm on a message board, so I'll stop. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:09, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Considering this from a wiki standpoint, I'll just say that this takes us into ''tremendously'' fertile territory for bi-monthly Q&A submissions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:11, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::I guess the problem with merging is that we first have to find out if there one, even is an explanation, and two, what said explanation is. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:51, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::Unless Alpha Trion is just like Vector Prime in some way, or an explanation like the ''ROTF'' Fallen, but I'll hate it if that becomes true. What I worry is that if we ask in Q&A, will they made a explanation in rush? Or should we find a way to ask the writer(s?) of ''Exodus''? --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:57, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::I see it the other way, merge the articles with a note that the explanation is unclear and fill in the explanation later. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 22:55, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::What Hasbro says, goes. Whatever anyone else says is a trivia note at best if it conflicts with Hasbro. I say we merge, since that's the official word, with a note explaining that the merger has a few weird issues and we don't have an official explanation yet.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:15, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::: My thing is, until we have some clear idea how it all fits together structure-wise, trying to merge everything is going to be one very long pile-on mess. Especially when we try to write up how to reconcile SG and Animated Alpha Trions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::: I vote for note vote until we get a clear explanation. However, if possible, I do consider using subpages if confirmed because there are a big divergence between all Alpha Trion. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 23:22, 27 June 2010 (EDT)



::::::::Tx? What does that mean? Anyway, I don't really see the issue. They get a write-up on what they did in each continuity under the correct header in "Fiction" and the section starts with a continuity note that says "This doesn't seem to fit with the nature of the character as dictated by Hasbro, but who knows the conflict may be explained away in the future." Boom. Where's the "complications"? Kinda how the Sunbow Toon is handled in the Unicron and Primus articles.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:26, 27 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::: (COming in kinda late but...) I also vote on just waiting this out for a bit... It's not even that big of a deal if you ask me. Any author could just come along and make up an easy explanation to solve this problem. Even I can do it, watch: "Eons ago, A3 split himself from a singularity into a multitude of individuals to better understand non-singularity beings blah blah blah blah..." When you read mystery fiction, do you just flip out when something doesn't add up and confuses you? No, you keep on reading, and odds are by the end of the story, something comes up and makes you say "oh! It all makes sense now!" --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:08, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yeah. Considering we're usually patient, I don't see a problem with just waiting until we get a clear idea of things. We can always just stick a message box at the top saying that we think they all need a merge, but we're waiting on the matter.
::::::::::(Heck, for all we know, it'll end up being canon that, like you say, he's actually a ''split'' singularity that's deliberately many separate individuals who are all part of the same, uh, personality gestalt. In which case merging might not make sense after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:14, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::If we stick a very clear, unambiguous message that these should probably be merged at the top of the pages I would have no problem with waiting a reasonable time period before merging. It should not be hidden down at the bottom in the notes though, we need to be out in the open with this. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:21, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

So, what to do with [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? I suggest phrasing it like this: "'''Alpha Trion''' is one of the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]] and the Archivist who bears the [[Quill]] that writes the [[Covenant of Primus]]. He might be the same Alpha Trion as [[Alpha Trion (G1)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (RID)|him]], [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|him]] and [[Alpha Trion (ROTF)|him]], though probably not [[Alpha Trion (SG)|him]]." [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:56, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Something like that. The idea in the note on the AT disambig. page was to use the Prime page for all the info on AT that we know is about the 13er Singularity, with obvious links to the others and info about the retcon. I just wanted to make sure folks were cool with the notes on the Disambig. page and the G1 Trion page before expanding the idea. As it's been a few days now with no one objecting I think the idea should be completed as at least a temporary solution, pending future info from Hasbro. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:02, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

==Another perspective on Multiuniversal Singularities==
Is it absolutely, 100% set in stone that every version of a character who's referenced as a Multiversal Singularity is definitely the same guy? How about Megatronus? Megatron used to go by that name. If we REALLY follow the idea that every character sharing a name with a Multiuniversal Singularity is the same guy, then every Megatron is also the Fallen. Assuming no one hear actually takes that position, then we have precedent where there are two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not. Once we have one example, it logically follows that there might be more.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:15, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:This makes perfect sense to me. Then again, pretty much every explanation people have come up with for, say, A3's status as an MS has made perfect sense to me, so..... --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:22, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

::That actually is something that I've also considered. It ''would'' be a rather tidy "have your cake and eat it too" kind of explanation that undoes some of the thorniness of the matter. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:29, 28 June 2010 (EDT)

:::It makes sense to me, too. I really like "two characters sharing a name, one of whom is a confirmed Multiuniversal Singularity, and the other of whom is not." --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 13:25, 28 June 2010 (EDT)
::::It sounds good to me. It wouldn't be the first time 2 characters with the same name existed in the same universe at once. Look at [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]. Hell, you could even argue that the non-MS character was (in-universe) named in honor of the MS. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:42, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

::::Or, in SG Alpha Trion's case, he went crazy and started to believe that he's the MS A3. There's just so many issues that we can explain away with this. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:45, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

== The 13 as singularities concept obsolete? ==

My opinion is that, in all likelihood, the wiki is slavishly adhering to a concept (the 13 are mutiversal singularities) that isn't really going anywhere. As far as I know, it hasn't been followed up on since a [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70811&st=120&p=1585399&#entry1585399 fan-club story from around 2005] (the wiki still needs a specific citation). Yes, there was a Q&A answer, but that isn't exactly fiction. Dare I say that it is closer to [[authorial intent]] mixed with a little bit of humoring detail-obsessive fans? We are apparently in the near future getting treated to the definitive story of the original 13. I see no hints that they are going to be anything other than simply residents of the "Prime"-verse. If the 13 aren't singularities in "Prime", then I think the wiki should probably consider the concept obsolete and save a lot of headaches. If they are singularities in "Prime", I will eat my hat. This is just my 2¢. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:34, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:There might be something to this. I definitely think taking a 'wait-and-see' approach to Prime and the 13 is a good idea.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Maybe it's just taken them a while to figure out how to put things together. They have been rather busy with a multimillion dollar, multipart movie series. To me Prime seems like it is going to integrate and synthesize a lot of things and inform not just where the stories go from here, but also how the previous stories are understood. We need to exercise a little patience and see what Hasbro does next. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:40, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::We shall see, Galvatron, we shall see.....[/zarakquote]
:::Also, you're on. If the 13 are singularities in "Prime", I expect to see pics of you eating your hat. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It's certainly possible Hasbro will let the concept go at some point. But they have not yet. IF they do, then we change things, but until then we wait and go with the last official word on the subject: The 13 are singularities. Since Hasbro apparently has big plans for them soon we have a good chance to see one way or the other soon. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:25, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I seriously doubt that Prime will have anything to say about the 13 being singularities, one way or the other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:23, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::From what Hasbro's said it sounds like they plan to express the 13 backstory on a number of fronts, not just the Prime toon. I think there's a decent chance it'll be adressed at some point. Not definate, but certainly a posibillity. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 16:00, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Given the amount of product-moving time required, I doubt Hasbro would see any benefit to talking about not just one backstory but ''infinite'' backstories, dragging in dimensions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story itself just to show some characters vaulting back and forth between them. The very concept of multiversal-singularitism is of interest to only a handful and, almost inherently, does not "work" within one discrete storyline. They very well may leave the whole matter undiscussed and, for all intents and purposes, abandoned. But time will tell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

==Alien Traveler's version==
I'm sorry, but your version made up wayyyyy too much stuff. For example:
:As Unicron learned how to change his planetary form, Primus created the 13 in imitation of him. The 13 reproduced by budding, but the process had dark byproducts, so Prima was given the Matrix to perpetuate their race instead.
This was under the MARVEL COMICS CONTINUITY section! There was no 13 in the Marvel Comics continuity! They hadn't been created yet! This is absolutely not what we should be doing. We do not make up canon to make our pages read cohesively. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:03, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
:And aside from that? Anyway, let's continue that discussion on [[User talk:Alientraveller/The Primes]]. You must admit my version is far more in-depth. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:12, 12 August 2010 (EDT)
::Well no one put any input, but I hope my changes are now are more to your liking and rather than reverting a lot of work you could improve upon it instead, the article now longer seems like a stub with an elaborate intro and lots of notes. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 07:18, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::But you're not really chronicling the thirteen as a group in fiction. You're just going in-depth in what the individual members did. How is the Nexus Prime stuff relevant? Are you also going to note everything Vector Prime and Alpha Trion did? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:20, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
::::I did actually! The I looked and realized Trion and Vector and Nexus's individual exploits are better covered in this own article as it was becoming a bit of a Frankenstein, and that it should only cover instances of the Thirteen interacting. Which is why Fun Pub.'s section is fairly big, considering it does feature Vector, Alpha (and possible doppleganger) and the five components of Nexus.
::::Maybe we could hide the second two paragraphs about Fun Publications and unhide them if we get a Q&A answer regarding evil Trion. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 08:32, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::I appreciate your compromise approach, though I still think the current draft is heavily dependent on the "multiversal singularity" policy still being in effect, something that hasn't been touched on for these characters since like 1 page in 2005. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:34, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

== Solus Prime ==

I'm assuming we're going to wait for [[Transformers: Exiles|Exiles]] to be released before potentially adding him(/her?) to this list? --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 03:49, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
: Probably for the best. There really isn't anything to say till then. Wish it were closer than Sept.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:02, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

== misspelling ==

Could someone change "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to relenquish the Matrix." to "Finally, there came a time when Prima had to '''relinquish''' the Matrix."? The page is locked. --[[Special:Contributions/81.164.215.61|81.164.215.61]] 12:56, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

== Nexus ==

Except for Nexus, each of the bullets at the top describes what kind of person the Transformer was. Nexus's line, however, just focuses on what he physically was, a combiner. Exiles describes him as a cunning magician, so can someone with write access add that in?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 14:05, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Thanks, Zack.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 15:15, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Move? ==

Seems to me that this should be moved to "Thirteen", since that's the consistently-used proper name of the group. Or the most common "Thirteen (blank)" used in fiction. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:01, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

== Beast Mode Prime ==

[[Image:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]

Is the Prime on the upper right corner (the one to the left of the energy sphere/Vector Prime) the Beast Prime? Judging by the fact that he looks distinctly centaur-like... [[User:Tom Servo the Great|Tom Servo the Great]] 18:22, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
: We don't know. Was hoping someone would interrogate Hasbro/Prime crew at NYCC. No luck. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 18:50, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
:::It's not confirmed, but I think it's evident like Solus Prime. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:54, 20 October 2011 (EDT)
::::I disagree. It definately could be him. And may be him. But there's at least one huge monstrous member in the charging to battle pic that it could also be. We need to stay away from guesses as much as possible. As we always say, we don't need to have info "first". There is no race, and accuracy is more important. So until confirmed there's no reason for us to guess. Even if it's a reasonable guess.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 19:28, 20 October 2011 (EDT)

I don't think the energy sphere guy is Beast Prime, seeing as Minicon Prime is supposed to be the smallest, which the energy sphere guy seems to be. speaking of which, unless 'Prime' is not in his name, he may not even be a Mini-con in the movieverse, unless he got a lot larger. in the ROTF appearances of the 7 Primes, they're all seemingly larger than Megatron. [[User:CrowBuster|CrowBuster]] 17:21, 11 January 2012 (EST)[[User: CrowBuster|CrowBuster]]

== Alpha Trion ==
Since you've decided to keep all Alpha Trion's article's seperate, and just note that [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]] is a multiuniversal singualarity and the others disputed, does this mean that future incarnations of Alpha Trion will have their own article, or be included on [[Alpha Trion (WFC)]]? Just wondering.[[Special:Contributions/71.162.97.20|71.162.97.20]] 12:08, 11 November 2011 (EST)
: We'll address that when it happens, according to the circumstances. Impossible to say until then. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:42, 11 November 2011 (EST)

== Current placement of "Conceptual History" as of December 2nd, 2011 ==

I am personally not a fan of its placement in the page (or perhaps it's the title), I feel that goes more along the line of "trivia" which would typically reside at the bottom of the page with "Notes". I strongly feel that we should keep the structure of: "Members", then "Fiction", then either "Conceptual History" (CH), or mix the CH with "Notes". --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 06:38, 2 December 2011 (EST)
:I wrote the CH section at Interrobang's suggestion to specifically move it ''out'' of the bullet-pointed notes into full prose to give room for a proper charting of the ideas concept. Placement, you can argue, sure, but I just like having conceptual history sections up top as with [[Matrix of Leadership|the Matrix]], or [[Energon]], or the [[AllSpark]], as they are key to understanding the precise chronological unfolding of a lot of the information that then follows them on the page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:58, 2 December 2011 (EST)
::I prefer it at the top, as the Thirteen, like Unicron, energon, the Matrix, etc., are not a consistently portrayed concept. Better to elaborate on that fact to start with instead of having poorly-connected fiction sections and then an explanation why. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:06, 2 December 2011 (EST)

===The Aligned Thirteen===
I have serious philosophical problems with continuing to add Alignedverse stuff here when we were essentially told that "what was true in previous universes isn't necessarily true" there. The present incarnation of the Thirteen is clearly intended to be a "perfect" ground-up version of the story that doesn't have to be jury-rigged from previous events. More crucially, there are obvious contradictions with existing entities, particularly Alpha Trion - the top of this ''very talk page'' emphasizes that there can be no "SG" version of the old Thirteen, because they are multiversal singularities, and yet we have an indisputably SG Alpha Trion in the old multiverse. Conclusion: Alpha Trion was not a member of the Thirteen in the old multiverse. Hand-waving the ridiculous chronology of the multiversal entities from the old multiverse can account for the difference in Nexus Prime's history, the same way we can assume the Fallen betrays Primus over and over and over again in every new reality, but it shouldn't need to. 
I know we greatly value our old multiversal entities on this wiki, and for the most part so do I - but the Alignedverse should have been drawn out as separate with regards to the Thirteen as well as, probably, Unicron as soon as we learned what a fundamental character Alpha Trion (not A3) was to the new reality. It's a big contentious undertaking and so I've kind of avoided starting the fight, but it needs to be said, and so I've said it. -[[User:LV|LV]] 14:34, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:I vote for splitting into Thirteen (multiverse) and Thirteen (Aligned), or whatever the title would be. Along with Vector Prime, Liege Maximo, Prima, etc. being split up as well. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 15:06, 6 June 2013 (EDT)
:Not that I carry a lot of juice around here, but I'd VERY much oppose splitting the articles. To my reading of Hasbro's explicit and cryptic statements since the whole multiversal singularities concept got rolling, especially as regards the 13, "Aligned" ESPECIALLY as regards the 13, represents Hasbro's official reveal of all the "we'll reveal it all later" stuff they've been saying for years.

:I'd even go one further, and suggest that, especially considering the HOF bios, some of the stuff from TF Legends, etc., I think Aligned (from Hasbro's non-wiki-friendly perspective) PROBABLY represents an official "upgrade" of EVERY major TF character to "multiversal singuilarity" status. I take Hasbro's statements RE: Aligned not as "This is a new clean copy of the TF Universe from the ground up" but rather as "Aligned represents THE clean copy of the TF Universe, of which all previous iterations were garbled and muddy photocopies"

:Which is not to say I'm suggesting that we start trerating all characters as singularities, quite the contrary. I believe Hasbro has rolled us back to their late 90's vision of "Transformers as Mythology" wherein there is "one ultimate truth" (probably unrevealed), which is represented by an infinite number versions all of which are allowed to count so long as they pass Archer's famous "squint test."

:SOOOO, if I were king of the wiki, this is what I'd do: Mentally note that Hasbro intends Aligned to be (for all intents and purposes) "Ultimate Truth." We promptly and effectively ignore that as "Authorial Intent" and document Aligned like any other continuity. MEANWHILE, any characters/concepts/etc. that Aligned paints a clear portrait of which have a meaningful (but poorly defined) analog in previous continuities, we retcon the squint-test in a general way to those previously poorly defined guys. Conviniently, and I'd wager by design more or less, 99% of what we have so far that qualifies as a "Well definined in Aligned, but present and murky/mysterious in prior continuities" are ALSO entities previously identified as singularities or their kin.

:Therefore where continuity specifics don't contradict (which we just document and ignore under the current system anyay), we assume that whatever is presented as true in Aligned for "singularities" holds true for them in non-Aligned universes. Eg. Minimus Prime is one of the 13 in G1 (though never explicitly named), and we can deduce he's probably (through whatever mysterious means) the creator of the G1 Microns (Micromaster/Micron = synonym in G1, Minicon/Micron = synonym in UT...but if that's a leap of logic too far by our standards, I get it). Since he's never mentioned by name in any G1 material, we can assume it's true, since we know he's a singularity-type-dude and that Hasbro means for the Aligned 13 to be the real-deal honest-to-betsy versions.

:Even if "multiversal singularity" as originally and explictly defined has become spread a bit thin, I think it's fair to say that the concept is still VERY useful as a functional category (for taxonomy, not neccessarily as a wiki-category), and the core concept very much works.

:By contrast SPLITTING 13 (Aligned) and 13 (EVERYTHING ELSE) does nothing other than return everybody who's not Fallen/Nexus/A3/Veccy to "name and details unknown" status outside of Aligned. Which is less than constructive.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:21, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

::Your entire premise seems constructed on the idea that Hasbro intends for Aligned to retroactively apply to all previous continuities; there is nothing to lead us to believe that. The fact that the Thirteen never got any meaningful use before the old multiverse was dumped and replaced by Aligned doesn't mean we should falsely equate the two Thirteens when a) they conflict even in the tiny amount we know about the multiversal Thirteen and b) we have been explicitly told that things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:02, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:::To back up Graham, Hasbro were very much explicitly against making Aligned part of the prior Multiverse. The Club wasn't allowed to roll it into the whole Axiom Nexus thing, and yes, the concept of the Thirteen in Aligned, and other universal hypermatters, were declared separate and distinct from their prior Multiverse's concepts. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:15, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Y'all are both missing my entire point (kind of making it FOR me in fact), but I was being long winded so, I'll try to be more brief here. As you say Hasbro has very explicitly said that "things that were true before the Alignedverse aren't necessarily true now." You all seem to be reading that as "Pre-Aligned and Aligned don't mix." I'm reading that as "All previous continuity was lies and falsehoods, that jazz never happened, Aligned is what's REAL." That's a thorny situation, but I'd bet my left knee that to the degree that Uncle PotatoHead cares about "canon" in general, THAT's what they mean. My understanding of how the wiki deals with all manner of retconning is that when a retcon doesn't explicitly screw up known-facts we acknowledge it, and when it DOES screw things up we either ignore or note it.

::::Sooooo....Pre-Aligned: Multiversal Singularities, notably the 13, were a thing, and that concept helped grease the wheels of Pre-Aligned fiction. OFICIALLY (by my interpretation), Hasbro says that with the start of Aligned all prior fiction is null-and-void, exisiting perhaps as a "squint test passing" version of something that might or might-not have happened. Since we have no intention of re-writing everything Pre-Aligned to say "This is crap and lies written by morons who didn't know the truth, please see 'Aligned Fiction' for real stuff", we find ourself in this position: Pre-Aligned Canon works the way we were told it worked when it still "counted." Aligned Canon (SUPPOSEDLY) represents the way things (ALL things before current, and in perpetuity) REALLY works. Pre-Aligned, The 13 are Multiversal Singularities (MVSs), but their roster and 90% of their details are unknown. In Aligned, which is The-One-And-True-Canon (supposedly) the 13 are now documented in some degree of completeness, but they aren't MVSs...because there IS NO MULTIVERSE, that was crap and lies. So when we document a part of TF canon that is officially "crap and lies" (everything pre-Aligned), we can either choose to assume that the 13 are either the same dudes as the One-True-Canon 13 (which demonstrably they are in all cases where we have comparable data points....excepting Logos), OR we can thick-headedly decide that because a "crap and lies" concept like MVS-hood is an important enough concept that the Aligned-13 MUST be different dudes because they exist in a world (One-True-Canon) where MVSing is logically impossible. I see no reason to assume that the Pre-Aligned 13 are not retroactively-intended to be the same guys as The Aligned-13. Since, from Hasbro's perspective, there is only one set of 13, period. It's the same sort of situation that Uhaul-Robot and his other cartoon flashback-buddies names and titles of glory.

::::TLDR Version: 13 (MVSs) exisit in a "truth" where MVSs are the default truth. 13 (Aligned)exist in a "truth" where they don't need to be MVSs, but Hasbro says that these are *THE REAL*("truer truth") 13. Therefore 13 (MVSs) because they are, by the LOGIC OF THEIR SHEER CONCEPT, the one-and-only 13 must, unless explicitly contradicted (which with the exception of Logos Prime, they don't, and since the fiction is over, they won't) equal 13 (Aligned) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

:Though, just to play Devil's Advocate, I suppose one could argue that Logos Prime represents at least one (micro, perhaps) continuity wherein at least one of the Aligned 13 =/= the 13 everywhere else. Which we could either decide means that the logic I laid out above is broken, or else that we can document variances as variances (up to and including member roster), while still assuming the rest holds true, functionally at least. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:35, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Something just grates on me that we're about to get the most complete notion of the Thirteen we've ''ever'' had, but because of Hasbro being continually indecisive and ultimately pulling the hamfisted assertion of "different multiverses" we can't really complete this article. It bugs me. I know it's ''technically'' correct, but I hate the feel of it. For the longest time we were on this crazy scavenger hunt for lore on the Thirteen and now we have to say they weren't ''the same'' Thirteen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:37, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
:I definitely don't disagree that it's maddening. We were "supposed" to learn all about them in that IDW series mentioned-then-abandoned, which one has to think was one of the most influential things through absence to be, insofar of its inability to have any effect on the Aligned Thirteen or the current IDW backstory. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
::It's grating, because it's crazy. Think about it this way, we're taling about the TF GODS here. Whether you're talking the Millenialist Mono-Deity, or ancient Pagan pantheons, whenever you get to "god level" in story telling you end up with a million versions of the same "god" told a million different ways. This is the nature of a living evolving storytelling culture, it's one of things I most love about Transformers, it's a modern mythic system in fast-forward speed evolution. There are like 15 different versions of Aphrodite/Venus, for instance, in many cases basic facts vary from version to version (place and method of origin, etc.), but no one disputes that they're all the same goddess. Even though you'll see some reference materials seperate out Venus and Aphrodite to keep their Roman and Greek histories etc. straight, there's ALWAYS an explicit reference that the two have over the centuries become conflated and interchangeable, and any shorter reference will treat them under a single entry. Because we have NEXT TO NOTHING on 13 (Multiverse) and will soon have nearly EVERYTHING on 13 (Aligned) it's stupid to split them. Are we going to make a Unicron (Multiverse) and Unicron (Aligned) and a Primus (Multiverse) and Primus (Aligned) split as well? If we split the 13, we gotta split the daddies as well. There's either a conceptual/logical bridge between the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" or there isn't. We can't have it both ways.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 10:29, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:I'm putting my reply down here, because the nesting thing going on above is a mess. In reply to Destronger: The quote specifically says "what '''''was true'''''" in the non-Aligned settings, so I don't see how you can interpret that as "we are saying the non-Aligned settings are mistellings of Aligned. Furthermore...non-Aligned fiction is ''still being produced by Hasbro'', which puts the lie to the idea that Hasbro is doing some kind of George Lucas "now we have the resources to tell the story we always meant to" thing.
:The facts are:
#In order to keep everything canon in past settings, Hasbro had to sest up a huge multiverse system with the Thirteen as multiversal singularities.
#When asked if Aligned was part of that system, Hasbro pretty clearly communicated that no, Aligned within its internal canon is not part of the multiversal system (even if the setup of the multiversal system would seem to internally demand that it is!). As far as I know, the Aligned stuff hasn't even got a multiversal stream name, so there's no reason to think they are meant to mesh in any way.
:Basically, Hasbro is trying to treat them as separately as they would treat Animated and My Little Pony, so we should as well. Not to mention the contradictions that pop up with stuff like the "Seven Primes", "Logos Prime", etc.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:11, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities. But I'll set all that aside and again ask the question that captures my point even more simply: Do we split Unicron and Primus into (Aligned)/(Multiversal) entries? How about the planets like Cybertron, Junk, Velocitron? Do we split those? The 13 fall into the same bucket as all those examples, big-picture macro-concepts that stay "true and consistant enough" regardless of continuity, while also having little enough to be said about them specifically, that they all get to live at a single entry. If we NEED to be pedantic about it and have a split-fiction section Where we say Multiverse: The 13 are Singularities and exisit in multiverses simultaneously Aligned: They do stuff explicitly in the novels and we see them in a flash-back, then FINE, that's cool. But they SO don't need to be split as a category. --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 16:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::The sheer volume of noise you're putting out here is discouraging to conversation, but here are a handful of points: Yes, Unicron should probably have his own Aligned page. No, we don't need to split planets, because we never have. The Thirteen are characters and characters get different pages for different continuities. For the purposes of this split, "Aligned" and "Everything else" are two different continuities. What you seem to regard as a convincing argument to keep them merged works only if everyone already agrees that Hasbro meant something only you think they meant. -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:54, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I also support splitting Unicron into an Aligned entry, but Primus...would be dang tiny. Just, like, DANG.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 18:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::I apologize if you find my involvement to be more "noise" than "signal", I'll bow to group consensus whatever direction it swings in. Splitting Unicron is my personal litmus test for splitting the 13, I personally think doing so is daft and removing clarity rather than adding to information when a simple split-fiction section would do, but as the group wills. I'll go back to quietly fixing grammar and adding pictures of obscure goodies.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 19:12, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::It's not the signal-to-noise ratio, it's just the masses and masses of text. Even if it's all made of valid talking points, it's hard to deal with in this kind of medium. If you were offended, I apologize. I wasn't trying to be hostile. I have no idea how separating Unicron's actions in a cartoon unrelated to all other fiction "removes clarity", though - but to be frank, Unicron concerns me a lot less than the Thirteen. Unicron is, in both pre- and Aligned incarnations, an evil god dude. The Thirteen don't even seem to be composed of the same individuals - even Nexus Prime is made up of different guys. -[[User:LV|LV]] 19:33, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::Weird side thought on Nexus Prime: What if he is the sort of inverse of the Movie Constructicons/Devastator? Instead of being many individuals who can merge into different versions of Devastator, he is one guy who can split into several individuals in multiple ways? Just something that bounced through the pachinko machine I use as a brain when I read what you wrote. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:35, 20 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::::No real offense taken. For better or worse my brain has been molded to think and express this way (literary analysis), and I can get how this medium makes it hard to process. Anyway, I totally see the argument of the 13 being different guys, if that's the case they totally need a split, but are they? Other than Logos, who's a vaguely defined maybe from Takara's side of the house, who else varies, that we know of? Megatronus/Fallen, Nexus, Vector, they've all been fully-confirmed. Is there anyone else on the Multiverse-list that's NOT on the Aligned-list? We've got problems in the OTHER direction, A3 being all SG'd up, LeigeMaximo maybe being hard to reckon. But I don't think those rough-fit issues would invalidate the membership rolls. BTW Khajidha- that's a BRILLIANT notion. I think it'l be fanon in my brain from here forward :) --[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 09:02, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
"''Exactly "What WAS true" = "Those things are no-longer true" I think we're getting into the fallacy of giving Hasbro too much credit for CARING about the specific mechanics of "continuity" and specifically inter-relations BETWEEN continuities.''" 
No, we really are not. Aaron and Rik, the two guys largely responsible for the Aligned universe deal, were very much concerned about the continuity matter because they do know what fans are like. Not bragging, but I know this from personal correspondence and interaction with them through occasional paid work for the two for the [[Binder of Revelation]]. Aligned was explicitly meant to be a separate entity ''with no bleed-back into what came before''. What was true for what came before ''remained'' true for what came before and for whatever ongoing fictions within that framework would come (IDW, FunPub, movies), but would have no bearing on what came later in Aligned beyond "potential inspirational starting point for a premise". "G1" Wheeljack isn't a hardassed sword-swinging Wrecker now, Bumblebee still talks, etc etc. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:55, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
::Okay, it sounds like the answer to this is "yes", but just to check: do you know from that correspondence whether this separation also applies to the divine Unicron and Primus, meaning that they should be split as well?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:03, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I do not know for certain, I didn't ask. Going by the known intent, I can ''guess'' that the answer is ''probably'' "yes"... BUT. What we do know of Unicron and Primus so far in Aligned does not, to the best of my knowledge, actually ''contradict'' the two's non-Aligned multiversal backstory. So splitting Uni and Primus, so far, is STILL a point of contention without a clear answer. The Aligned stuff does not apply to the past stuff... but the past stuff might be used as the basis for Aligned stuff. I think we'd need to know more about the origin story of the two in Aligned before we can REALLY make the call to split. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:50, 21 June 2013 (EDT)
:: Close enough to the horse's mouth for me. Pending KK's questons about the divinities being asnwered, I'll not argue any further.--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 15:39, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

===Revisiting===
To revisit this discussion six months later and after the Covenant and what it has told us about the "Thirteenth Prime", I don't think we really have any ''choice'' at this point but to have separate "Multiverse" and "Aligned" pages for the Thirteen. We could use this one as a hub page and keep the "conceptual history" section on for ease of explanation, then have separate links off to those articles for member lists and fiction respective to the two groups. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 10:01, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:So the multiverse Thirteen list would be Prima, Vector Prime, Nexus Prime, Liege Maximo, the Fallen, and Logos Prime, right? I guess this would also entail new Aligned-only articles for those guys (minus Logos) too... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:58, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::I ''guess'', but in most cases that honestly that seems like it would be only done as a matter of wiki standards, rather than because the articles as they are now are inherently "wrong". Like, I really don't think there'd be any point to splitting out Primus and Unicron's aligned stuff into articles of their own, for instances. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:35, 29 December 2013 (EST)
:::There is also the matter of "[[Timeless]]" having [[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]] getting a peak at (what we have determined to be) the Aligned Continuity. Whether that suggests that it's the Club's way of saying that Aligned is within the Multiverse or not is still up for debate. If it isn't, then Rhinox must have surpassed the Multiverse's boundries to get a glimpse from the outside of it. But if it is, then... I just really don't know anymore. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:00, 29 December 2013 (EST)
::::I don't think we need to append any special significance to that. The club's been very good about treating the Aligned stuff as "separate", whether it's describing the universe that Rhinox views as far out and unclassified, or talking about TFSS Slipstream's mysterious origins on her bio-card. Understand, mind you, that I find the sentence "separate from the multiverse" to be amazingly frustrating and dumb and all my senses shift to white noise for a moment when I hear it since it defeats the entire point of HAVING a multiverse with these rules at all, but it is what it is and I deal. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:48, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:::::Eh, it does kinda give our "[[Omniverse]]" page a bit more weight to it, though. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:12, 30 December 2013 (EST)
:I'm not sure why Covenant would make splitting THIS page necessary. It's not like we have two entirely separate lists of the Thirteen members -- we have one full Aligned list and one incomplete Multiversal list, with only one point of contention between the two that I'm aware of (Logos Prime). And if the much, much longer pages for Primus, Unicron, even the Wreckers can be multiversal and aligned, then The Thirteen can be too. Yes, The Thirteenth Prime is one crazy bag of cats, but that's its own problem; it doesn't have to influence the Thirteen page, anymore than having separate Alpha Trion pages did. Let Thirteenth Prime's page deal with him, but we don't need to spread that crazy to the rest of the wiki just so that his page makes more sense. Or is there some other bone of contention with Covenant's content? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:07, 30 December 2013 (EST)
::At a minimum, the "Members" section needs to be split into "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:01, 31 December 2013 (EST)
:::Agreed. That's a given. Who all is a confirmed member of the Thirteen outside of Aligned, though? '''Vector Prime''' and '''Nexus Prime''', definitely. '''Logos Prime''' was identified as a contemporary of Vector Prime, so that should count. '''The Fallen''' and '''Prima''' from ''The Ultimate Guide''. '''Liege Maximo''' remains unconfirmed as a Multiversal Thirteen, though, right? Six others were created for Aligned, and we all know the stories with '''Alpha Trion''' and '''Optimus'''. That's it, I think.--[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:02, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::''The Ultimate Guide'' named Liege Maximo as a Multiversal 13er. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:47, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:::::I don't have the ''Guide'', but the Conceptual History as written makes it sounds ambiguous. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:31, 2 January 2014 (EST)
::::::Hm, so it does. Lemme check the book again. ''*goes to look at the book*'' Okay, upon further examination, it states that ''Alignment'' confirms his as a 13er, so I guess the ambiguity of this in the Conceptual History is accurate in regards to that story's apocryphal status. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 17:08, 2 January 2014 (EST)
:You know, now that we've split the Multiversal 13 from the Aligned 13, that rumor about [[Maccadam]] being one of the Multiversal 13 mentioned in ''The Ultimate Guide'' no longer seems fruitless. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:22, 3 January 2014 (EST)

===Revisiting Pt. 2===
So, what's the ultimate consensus, split or leave the pages as is? [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] ([[User talk:Mimi|talk]]) 17:54, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

===Revisiting Pt. 3===

There's new media with which to look back and reinterpret the clusterfuck that is the Covenant of Primus. Specifically, [[The Crucible]], or RID #34, goes into great depth of the exploits of the Thirteen towards the end of their time. This matches up relatively closely with Aligned fiction. Does this mean we can re-merge the "Multiverse" and "Aligned" lists of Thirteen, with a singular note regarding Logos versus Optimus? [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 10:01, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:IDW may be re-tailoring their notion of the Thirteen into a more workable form, but merging the lists depends heavily upon the no longer true "multiversal singularity" notion. We see no indication that the Primes from IDW are multiversal singularities. They're far more like the Aligned Primes in that they're from one universe only. If anything, I think this more supports ''further'' fracturing our list so we don't have to keep trying to reconcile the movieverse versus Aligned versus the Unicron Trilogy presentation of them.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:54, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
::We almost ''never'' see any indication that any of the Primes are multiversal singularities, because that is only actual relevant to stories that are about the multiverse. There's nothing about the Fallen in either War Within or ROTF to indicate he's not "from one universe only," or Vector Prime in the Cybertron cartoon, or Prima and the Liege Maximo in the Marvel Comics, etc. That is how this has always worked. For most of the Thirteen, and also Primus and Unicron for that matter, being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction in which nothing whatsoever is said to indicate other universes even exist, because it's a background detail only relevant to obscure fan club stuff and the like. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:13, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
:::To clarify, I don't personally see any problem with keeping all information on the Thirteen as a group here rather than in separate articles. I just think increasingly we should organize it more along the lines of the Wreckers article, and acknowledge that the Thirteen can have different rosters in different universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 12:27, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

::::''"being singularities only comes up outside of their "main" fiction"''
:::Isn't that a textbook example of "the tail wagging the dog"? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness|talk]]) 11:27, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:In any case, while this page can certainly remain in its current form, covering the 13 concept cross-continuities in much the same way as the Wreckers page, the splitting of the multiversal versions and the Aligned versions of the characters included in both lists (Nexus, Prima, Fallen, Liege Maximo, and, now, Onyx) is long past due. -- [[User:Shellspark|Shellspark]] ([[User talk:Shellspark|talk]]) 01:37, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
::This is 100% true. Nexus Prime isn't even made of the same people, for crying out loud. -[[User:LV|LV]] ([[User talk:LV|talk]]) 10:48, 25 October 2014 (EDT)

Where would the IDW Thirteen be covered if we split their character articles into multiverse and Aligned? There's no evidence that they were that universe's original Transformers or that they were born to Primus. They seem more like regular people than the typical demigods. I'd be tempted to suggest splitting every single member of the Thirteen by continuity family, same as Alpha Trion. Hasbro has very obviously abandoned the notion of multiversal singularities, even for stuff like IDW that's technically part of the pre-Aligned multiverse. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:40, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:There are still canonical stories featuring the Thirteen hopping universes though, so it's important to keep some together. I wouldn't mind if we gave the Movie Fallen his own page though.
:I want to ask, are we going to cover IDW's 13 here or not? I'm itching to add Alpha Trion to the multiverse list. --[[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 07:15, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

== New information from the Complete AllSpark Almanac and 2015 Facebook blogs ==

How shall we proceed with the new information that there can be both singularity and non-singularity iterations of the Thirteen in the [[multiverse]], of which the [[Aligned continuity family]] is now a part of as [[Uniend]]? Also, Ask Vector Prime has Vector Prime referring to Logos Prime and Liege Maximo in the same post. Can we finally put Liege back onto the mainstream multiverse list? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 13:47, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:Are we really treating everything Ask Vector Prime says as canon? I doubt every answer he's giving is being run past Hasbro or whoever. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:24, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::I've talked to the author of the page, and it's basically allowed to answer things that the Club is allowed to work wit, and vice versa-for example, he can't talk about anything that has to do with the things in the Bay movies. So I'd say that it's something that's been approved by Hasbro, and making it easier so they don't have to ring up Hasbro HQ every couple hours and ask them if the answer they provide for a Facebook promotion is acceptable. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:29, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes, but what I'm saying is if Vector Prime says Fixit in RID is a dimension-hopping Pipo from Victory, that's not going to mean we have to merge the Fixit (RID) and Pipo pages, right? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:08, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, no. But then I doubt they're allowed to use the current series anyway. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:16, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::I really don't think that's a hypothetical that will happen. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:19, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::Indeed, no, I was using it as a theoretical example. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:23, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Oh well, too late I guess. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:09, 15 May 2015 (EDT)
Oh heck, [[Ask Vector Prime]] just said that it was Solus Prime who used her Forge to shatter the Star Saber that mainstream multiverse Nexus Prime has been looking for! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:35, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

== Revisiting yet again ==

While I know I was the one to raise the subject of splitting these characters after the distinct versions of them appeared in the Covenant, I think IDW's take on them requires us to talk on this again, as does our recent change in perspective regarding accessibility of our articles. IDW's Thirteen are based on the Aligned Thirteen (with Optimus Prime being the outlier unanswered question right now), and we've just had some recently commentary from "Vector Prime" on Facebook regarding the blending of the Uniened cluster with the multiverse.

I think Sipher's remark when talking about Unicron and doing exactly the same thing with him is worth quoting here: "We don't split "Cybertron (planet)" into different pages via continuity. Or "Autobot" or "Decepticon" or "spark" etc etc. While these are all in-universe "things" they're also broader multiversal concepts, and we already approach those with a slight... distance if you will. I feel like these meta-deals like Unicron, Primus, The Thirteen, etc, could benefit from treating them the same way we do those pages... stepping back a little and treating them less like concrete THINGS with a rigid this-is-exactly-it approach right out of the gate, and more as concepts with broad-strokes facets that are almost always true but the details will vary (sometimes wildly)."

I think we seriously need to look at treating the individual Thirteen character articles like this. I don't think it would require any change to ''this'' page—we would still maintain separate lists of who's who in the group in the different "realms", it's just that the the character articles we'd be linking to (with the obvious exception of Optimus) would be the same ones. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
*Agreed. If I recall correctly, a previous fly in the ointment was Shattered Glass Alpha Trion versus Forrest Lee's statement about no SG The Fallen at the top of this talk page. However, another Ask Vector Prime answer suggests that travelling to negative polarity streams attempts to flip the nature of singularities, providing a canon counterpoint and reducing the no SG thirteen thing to authorial intent. So with that in mind, I'd say I'm for this. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 06:18, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::Given some of the hints about how the rules of Singularities are soon to change, perhaps a wait and see attitude would be prudent. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:04, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::: *squint*What're you up to, Sorenson...? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:45, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Honesty, just trying to save you some work. (Whatever may or may not happen, I'm not the impetus.)--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:14, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::According to various Ask Vector Prime answers, the rules have already changed: we have non-singularity versions of Unicron, Primus-less Cybertrons, Aligned was outside the multiverse and is now back in. Pretty much everything about How This Stuff Works is up in the air right now. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:48, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
::::::The ambiguity was my main reason for proposing a condensing of the information into as few places as possible so it can more easily be explained, but if the word is that there's about to be some new exploration of what all this means in-fiction, then yes, we probably ought to hold off. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:28, 28 May 2015 (EDT)
:::::::I agree with holding off for now. After all, the current Fun Publications storylines seem to be all about restoring balance to the destabilized multiverse. Plus, Aligned Megatronus is going to appear in the ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'' cartoon and singularity Nexus Prime might appear in ''[[Another Light]]'' later this year. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 14:05, 28 May 2015 (EDT)

Remember this? Now that all's said and done, I stick by it. With IDW continuity continuing to do more and more with the Thirteen, depicting the characters and their backstories as they appeared in Aligned fiction, I'm even more convinced that the different incarnations need to live on the same page. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:26, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:So, who should stay separate? Optimus and Alpha Trion, obviously; Megatronus and Vector feel like borderline cases, so maybe they should be split off using suites. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with merging them all. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:48, 16 November 2015 (EST)
::Agreed on Optimus and Trion; for Megatronus and Vector, rather than a straight split, I'd go for more of a standard split-out page like we do for "Generation 1 cartoon continuity" or "IDW Generation 1 continuity", with a small write-up on the main article page that links off to a larger page containing the full run-down, plus a suite, as you say. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 09:51, 16 November 2015 (EST)
:::The Community Portal had [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#Multiversal singularities|a discussion]] in which people liked the idea of using suites for some of the more wildly different versions (like SG versions) of these guys. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:13, 16 November 2015 (EST)

== I count fourteen " Multiverse Thirteen..." ==

1.Prima, 2. Vector Prime, 3. Megatronus, 4. Nexus Prime, 5. Logos Prime, 6. Micronus Prime, 7. Liege Maximo, 8. Solus Prime, 9. Epsitimus, 10. Autonomous Maximus, 11. Solomus, 12. Onyx Prime, 13. Alchemist Prime, 14. Alpha Trion...
Alpha Trion is omitted from the list in the article itself, while Micronus Prime is omitted from the template at the bottom of the article... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:Oh, wait, Trion was established as multiverse Thirteen at some point? I've not been keeping up with every single one of the Vector Prime posts... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:25, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::I think SOMEONE said Alpha Trion was a multiversal singularity at some point, but I'm certain it wasn't Vector Prime. I think it was way back when Multiversal singularities were established as a thing by Hasbro. I'm not sure if it was meant all along to just mean Prime Alpha Trion was one of the Thirteen? I'm pretty confused by this whole thing to be honest. I was just pointing out the incongruity. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 19:28, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, I see, Trion was added to the multiverse Thirteen on the template back when he was established as belonging to the IDW Thirteen, who at this point are clearly just normal people. Checking again, the post that noted Autonomus, Solomus, etc. as being multiverse Thirteen specifically notes Trion as being one of the Aligned-specific ones. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::::This whole article is going to have to be majorly restructured anyway as there is no longer any such thing "mutliverse Thirteen" now that Aligned is part of the multiverse. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:08, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::Well we knew that was coming, as Jim intimated in the section above this one. The rupturing of the barrier between the Aligned family and the rest of the multiverse is doing ''something'' to the Thirteen that is basically going require this be re-written with "this is how it used to be, this is how it is now" approach, but whatever is is that's happened hasn't finished happening yet, so we should probably wait a bit. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Autonomous Maximus ==

I don't think it should be definitively stated that Autonomous and the Last Autobot are the same guy; in my opinion, the description seems to be a humorous reference to [[Anonymous Maximus]], given the similarity of name to the one we use on the wiki; the description given would work equally well for him. Similarly, I think the Maccadam part should be relegated to a trivia note on the Alchemist/Maccadam pages; if we are going to have it here, at least have a note stating that it wasn't explicit. The Autonomous thing, however, is much less clear in what it's referring to, so... [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:They both might be lonely sentinels, but Occam's Razor suggests that if one of them is being retconned into a member of the Thirteen, it's probably the one who's explicitly a servant of Primus and isn't the brother of someone who's definitely not a member of the Thirteen, y'know? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:40, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::That's as may be, but the name seems to deliberately evoke our term for Superion Maximus's brother. I admit that it's more likely to be the Last Autobot on a fictional level, but I think there's enough ambiguity there that we shouldn't call Autonomous = Last Autobot definitely canon. (Besides, maybe Anonymous Maximus is the same guy as the Last Autobot...) [[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:47, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Personally, I don't see how saying the guy whose description is exactly that of the Last Autobot is the same guy as the Last Autobot is any more speculative than, for example, saying that an unnamed guy in a comic panel who looks exactly like Blue Bacchus is an appearance of Blue Bacchus, y'know? It's not even a "some say" kind of thing like with Maccadam - the sentence is clearly setting out to tell us that the Last Autobot is one of the Thirteen, it just doesn't use that name. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 20:43, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
"Anonymous Maximus" does not match the description of Autonomous Maximus at all. He wasn't a "lone sentinel," there were three others with him, and he has a brother who isn't one of the Thirteen, so aside from similar names I see nothing in common there. Autonomous is the Last Autobot, yeah, that works. He's also Superion Maximus's dead brother? Nope. Doesn't fit. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 22:36, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::There's really nothing linking him to the Anonymous Maximus besides a similar-sounding name. He's pretty gosh-darned clearly supposed to be the Last Autobot to the point that I'm not clear why definite language isn't being used. Perhaps a follow-up question to VP could clarify. Conversely, Alchemist Prime's bit seems quite deliberately worded to keep in-tune with the original "Maccadam is one of the Thirteen" thing, in that it's presented as just being a rumour that some people ''think'' might be the case (ie: his drunk patrons talking nonsense). - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:39, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Removing my line from the IDW section ==

AVP established that G1 Cartoon Unicron was NEVER part of the singularity, and in my interpretation the idea was that, even "outside" the Shroud event, it "just so happened" that Unicron was created while a truly singular version of him existed. Why couldn't the same apply to the IDW versions of the 13?

Here's another example: the Animated universe. AVP did a lot of hand-waving to make it so that Wyatt's pipe dream of no Primus could be true, even before the idea of the Shroud. Maybe something like that could apply to the IDW universe as well?

Point is, there's no reason that the IDW version ever "had to be part of" the Singular nature of the 13. If it's possible for non-singular versions of Unicron to exist, and if Primus can just straight up not be in certain universes, then maybe the IDWverse - and perhaps others - could have had entities similar to the 13 but "not ever part" of the singular versions of the 13. [[User:Magaroja|Magaroja]] ([[User talk:Magaroja|talk]]) 20:05, 6 March 2016 (EST)
:Yeah, but the Shroud retroactively explains ''why'', from our perspective, they weren't. It's catch-all bullshit-fu. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:38, 6 March 2016 (EST)

==Should the "Multiversal Thirteen" be renamed?==

Since the Multiversal Thirteen have literally been retconned out of existence, should they be renamed...something else? Like the Forgotten Thirteen, or the Former Thirteen, or something?

Also, related, why are the Multiversal Thirteen listed above the "Aligned" Thirteen when the Covenant of Primus was released before the Ask Vector Prime post? Especially since the "Aligned" Thirteen seem to be the Thirteen that are popping up in the comics and toys, and probably everything else going forward, it might be confusing for people.
[[User:ZakuConvoy|ZakuConvoy]] ([[User talk:ZakuConvoy|talk]]) 19:47, 7 March 2018 (EST)

==Extra image==
[[File:One-Primes.jpg|thumb]]

==Toys Section==

When official images for the Age of the Primes toyline are released, should a section be added about these specific figures regarding these Thirteen members? Meaning not all Alpha Trions, Vector Primes, or Fallens, just these versions.
Basically what was done with the Wreck 'N Rule Collection on the Wreckers page?

Dreadwing (G2)

2024-12-05T17:39:23Z

TFEarthConquest: Added in a small "joke" that Earth Wars has only been adding characters that got recent(ish) figures

{{factions|decepticong2|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Dreadwing}}
:''Dreadwing is a [[Decepticon]] [[Triple Changer]] from the [[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Dreadwing-g2-packageart.jpg|upright=2|thumb|RUN IT'S DREADWING]]

{{quote|New '''Dreadwing''' Is punishing His Gatling gun is illin'! This Decepticon bomber's a Transformer-rama, A three-in-one villain that's chillin'! 
Combat tank and sonic jet Transform into [[Smokescreen (G2)|double-trouble robots]] Their missiles go boom Spelling certain doom As they take apart the awesome [[Autobot]]s!|Rap lyrics from the ''Generation 2'' Dreadwing [[commercial]]}}

==Fiction==
===Marvel ''Generation 2'' comic===
{{main|Darkwing (G1)#Marvel Generation 2 comic}}

[[File:Darkwing-surrenderordie.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|Dreadwind probably complained about this too.]]
Darkwing was badly damaged while defending his commander against the returning [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]]. {{storylink|The Power and the Glory|Tales of Earth Part Two}} After resuming leadership of the Decepticons, Megatron allowed repairs to be performed on Darkwing. {{storylink|The Gathering Darkness|Tales of Earth Part Three}} The Decepticon jet was rebuilt in a much larger and more powerful form. Darkwing made his debut with the new body by obliterating the inoffensive [[Rheanimum]] miners of [[Tykos]]. {{storylink|New Dawn}}

===Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''G-2'' pack-in manga and story pages====
[[File:JG2DreadwingSmokescreenMinicomic.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Rumble, Laserbeak: eject ... oh wait wrong bot.]]
Dreadwing was a pacifist by nature. He loathed war and chose not to get involved. However, once he realized that the wars on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] would never end, he was forced to take a stand. Not being of outstanding intelligence, [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] was able to manipulate him into siding with the Decepticons. He coerced Dreadwing into believing that if he helped the Decepticons win the G-2 wars, then all war would end on Cybertron. Secretly, Smokescreen preferred neither side and desired to obliterate them all. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 3}}

During a decisive battle between [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] and [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]], Megatron managed to gain the upper hand after a surprise attack by [[Hooligan (G2)|Hooligan]] crippled Prime's weaponry. Defenseless, Megatron ordered an aerial assault from Dreadwing and Smokescreen. The pair swooped down and bombarded Optimus Prime with missiles, nearly killing him. Their enemy virtually dead, they left the killing blow to Megatron. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (pack-in manga)|G-2 #10}}

Later, when Megatron commanded his all-out assault on the Autobots, Dreadwing joined in. After Megatron's defeat, Dreadwing fled into deep space with the rest of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 6}}

====''15 Go! Go!''====
As [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] sought out [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Battle Convoy]] with [[Teletraan 15]] and [[Steeljaw (G1)|Steeljaw]] aboard, {{storylink|Steeljaw Volume}} Dreadwing and his partner Smokescreen attacked them in the hopes of being led back to the other Autobots. Battle Convoy appeared and ended the battle by cutting off one of Dreadwing's wings with his [[sword]]. {{storylink|Battle Convoy Volume}}

====''Legends'' comic====
[[File:Legends-comic-G2-Dreadwing-base-mode.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2]]
At some point, Dreadwing was embroiled in a battle around [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]. {{Storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Metroplex)|Bonus Edition EX Metroplex}} He and Smokescreen later joined up with [[Galvatron II]] and participated in his attack on [[Beast (planet)|Beast]]. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 3}} Upon witnessing the [[Monsterbot (G1)|Monsterbot]]s wield [[Beast Power]], they deemed it too dangerous as it might fuel further conflict and attempted to destroy the Autobots, only to be defeated by [[Repugnus (G1)|Repugnus]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Repugnus)|Bonus Edition EX Repugnus}} While the disgraced Galvatron was rejected by his master, Unicron Neo, Smokescreen and Dreadwing remained loyal to Unicron and were reformatted into new bodies. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One}} Even the revelation that Unicron Neo was actually [[Dark Nova]] didn't bother them as long as his goal was to destroy the Transformers, and they assisted in Dark Nova's attack on the [[Micro|Z Planet]] where they battled [[Land Powered]]. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 5: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part Two|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part Two}}

In the aftermath of Dark Nova's defeat, Smokescreen and Dreadwing witnessed the resurrection of the [[Legends World]], still believing that peace between Transformers was a transient illusion. They were approached by Devcon, whose words and cooperation with [[Slizardo]] and the [[Skuxxoid]] moved Smokescreen enough to rejoin the Autobot fold. Dreadwing was still unconvinced, but Smokescreen changed his mind by pointing out that they themselves were proof that cooperation between an Autobot and a Decepticon could exist. {{storylink|Transformers Legends Final Chapter "Epiloge"|Epiloge}}

====''Generations Selects special Comic''====
[[File:Abominus comic 2 - Smokescreen-Astrotrain-Dreadwing.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.85]]
In [[2050]], Smokescreen and Dreadwing defended [[human]]s and [[Selector]]s that were attempting to flee the chaos of a [[Quintesson]] invasion and [[Angolmois Energy]] eruptions. {{storylink|Abominus comic 2}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Drift issue 1|''Drift'' #1]]}}

[[File:Deadlock smokejumper dreadwing drift 1.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3]]
Dreadwing was present during the earliest days of the Decepticons, looking on during [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]'s first meeting with Senator [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]. {{storylink|Shockwaves}}

Thousands of years ago, Dreadwing served under the command of [[Turmoil]] when their second-in-command [[Drift (G1)|Deadlock]] violated orders. Deadlock attacked the Autobots when Turmoil ordered him not to, and then executed a fellow Decepticon who planned on reporting his insubordination. Deadlock tried to rally Dreadwing and several other soldiers from Turmoil's forces under his new leadership. Dreadwing and his comrades refused, and turned Deadlock over to Turmoil to answer for his attempted mutiny. {{storylink|Drift issue 1|Drift #1}}

[[File:Dreadwing shockwaves.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.3|Shoulda followed the rule of holes.]]
When Megatron got a new body, Dreadwing took on a similar form in his honor. {{storylink|Shockpoint}} After the Chaos War, Dreadwing was among the Decepticons on Cybertron when they, the Autobots, and the [[NAIL]]s attempted to rebuild their society. When Megatron returned to lead the Decepticons and rise up against the new government, however, Dreadwing and his former captain Turmoil were among the 'Cons who joined him {{storylink|Before the Dawn}} Before he could participate in the uprising, though, Dreadwing was requisitioned by Shockwave to accompany him to the former site of [[Crystal City]]. Tempted by Shockwave's promises that he'd get everything he desired and disappointed in Megatron's failures to bring about a Decepticon victory, Dreadwing changed loyalties to follow the rogue scientist. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}} On arrival, Dreadwing was shocked to discover the city was still standing, despite the fact that it should've been destroyed at least twice over. He was more surprised when Shockwave shot him in the back, killing him. He was even MORE surprised when he was immediately restored to life by the unique properties latent in Crystal City thanks to Shockwave's experiments with [[Ore-14]]. {{storylink|Shockwaves}}

[[File:Dreadwing v cassettes soundwaves.jpg|thumb|upright=0.9]]
Shockwave then ordered Dreadwing to attack the intruding [[Soundwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Soundwave]], which he did with glee, rejecting the communications expert's peace offers and mocking him for not bringing his cassettes. In response, Soundwave killed Dreadwing with a barrage of firepower, but the Ore-14 was quick to resurrect him again. {{storylink|Shockpoint}} Soundwave then revealed he did bring the cassettes, which he released to keep Dreadwing busy while he himself faced down Shockwave. {{storylink|Soundwaves (issue)|Soundwaves}} After Soundwave's retreat, Dreadwing assisted Shockwave in his scheme to bring [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and his [[Quintessa (IDW)|Metrotitan]] into Crystal City and create a [[space bridge]] to the [[Dead Universe]]. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Soundwave had not given up, however, but returned with a joint team of Decepticons and Autobots to free Shockwave's captive, Megatron. Dreadwing tried to stop [[Skywarp (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Skywarp]] from breaking Megatron's bonds, but his efforts were unnecessary as Skywarp was becoming increasingly intangible anyway. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}}

[[File:Dreadwing black planet.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.9]]
Dreadwing remained with Shockwave's forces as they continued to grow, with [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] emerging from the Dead Universe and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], and the [[Pretender Monster|Monstructor Six]] finally arriving from Gorlam Prime. {{storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead are Not Enough}} He stood by as Shockwave sat unperturbed by the defeat of the Dark Titan by Metroplex. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}} Dreadwing then assisted Shockwave and Jhiaxus as they made final preparations on the chronal drive. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}} When Galvatron questioned his loyalties, Dreadwing confidently remarked that Shockwave was the biggest brain around, and he had promised Dreadwing everything he ever wanted. Still, Dreadwing's confidence fled him quickly when he was actually confronted by an angry Megatron laying siege to Crystal City. He barely managed to choke out a threat before being shot down by Megatron's fusion cannon. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

In the aftermath, Dreadwing escaped from Crystal City alongside Galvatron and Skywarp, and seemed poised to reclaim a position in the Decepticons under their new leadership. {{storylink|...And the Damage Done: Dark Cybertron Finale|...And the Damage Done}} Instead, Galvatron left him behind when he went to Earth.

[[File:TheTransgressors-NeedlenoseRally.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|"Does this mean I'm [[Drift (G1)|Drift]]? ''Sugoi''."]]
Months later, Galvatron sent [[Needlenose (G1)|Needlenose]] and [[Brawl (G1)|Brawl]] to help Dreadwing spread the word among the discontented, ghetto-dwelling Decepticons. They were good at whipping up anger and intimidating Prime evangelists, but Dreadwing was unconvinced of Galvatron or Soundwave's commune plan, finding the whole idea laughable. That didn't stop him flanking Needlenose on stage at a Decepticon rally! {{storylink|The Transgressors}} Later, the trio approached [[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]] about getting unfettered access to the space bridge for their people. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 1: Aphelion|Aphelion}} That night, they led a Decepticon march through Iacon Spaceport 1. The bridge brought Dreadwing and the others to the ''[[Ark-7]]'' where they confronted the Autobots trapped inside Blackrock's force field. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}}

Dreadwing went back through to Cybertron to rally the remaining Decepticons fighting the Autobots behind them, when the space bridge suddenly shut down. Unperturbed, Dreadwing ordered the remaining Decepticons to attack, and briefly scuffled with [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Wheeljack]], only to suddenly get caught off guard by [[Victorion]]'s gravitation powers. Dreadwing and the other Decepticons were subsequently rounded up and taken into custody by Starscream's forces. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 4: Perihelion|Perihelion}}

[[File:ItsBeginningToAndBackAgain TeamGalvatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.9|He is one metamorphin'...uh, what rhymes with "''Galvatronus''"?]]
Dreadwing was somehow able to escape and rejoin Galvatron on Earth nonetheless. He and some other Decepticons were deployed to defend the underwater ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' from an Autobot attack when Galvatron used the energies of the [[Enigma of Combination]] to forcibly merge them into [[Galvatronus (CW)|Galvatronus]], a combiner whose torso was formed by Dreadwing. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 4: It's Beginning To And Back Again|It's Beginning To And Back Again}} The combiner proved short-lived, as [[Superion (G1)|Superion]] learned to access the Enigma's code and used it to split Galvatronus back into his components. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 5: As Above...So Below|As Above...So Below}} Dreadwing was soon seen being taken into custody by the combined Autobot and Decepticon force. {{storylink|White Light}} When the Earth Defense Command attacked, Dreadwing was loaded onto Sky Lynx for transport. {{storylink|White Heat}}

Dreadwing returned to Cybertron where, after [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Onyx Prime]]'s return, Soundwave recruited him as part of retinue to interrogate [[Liege Maximo]]. Though despairing of how prolonged contact with Optimus had changed Soundwave and feeling Onyx's return would mark the return of a Prime dictatorship, he agreed to follow. When Soundwave expanded his powers to read the thoughts of the Prime of Lies, he sensed that Dreadwing believed him to be weak. After an explosion ripped through the [[Spire]], {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 2: Another Mine|Another Mine}} Dreadwing was among the casualties. [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]] attempted to revive him, to no avail. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 3: The Ground|The Ground}}
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
Dreadwing was a former [[Seeker]] who defected from the Decepticons to become an [[Energon]] scavenger for [[Soundblaster (G1)|Soundblaster]]. At some point, he met [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and revealed to him that Seekers knew how to navigate the [[Rust Sea|Sea of Rust]]. {{storylink|Siege episode 5}}

==Commercial appearances==
[[File:Dreadwing G2Commercial.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.9]]
Dreadwing and Smokescreen flew over an empty street to harass a pitiful young human, who fled in terror at the sight of them. Dreadwing, to cement how menacing he was even further, transformed into his tank mode and smushed a parked car. Two Autobots responded to the boy's cries for help, only for Dreadwing and Smokescreen to start tossing them around with ease. {{storylink|Commercial/Generation 2#Dreadwing and Smokescreen|Dreadwing and Smokescreen commercial}}
{{-}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:BattleTacticsDreadwing.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]
Dreadwing participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was an Uncommon character who could be recruited after collecting 35 units of Cybermetal and 16 units of Transmetal. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Dreadwing.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|"Me? But, the [[Dreadwing (Prime)|other guy]] was the one who got a figure!"]]
{{stub|{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generation 2''===
[[File:G2DreadwingToy.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Dreadwing loves it when Smokescreen enters him from behind.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d2|'''Dreadwing''' (1994)}}</ul>
:*''Hasbro EU name'': '''Stealth Assault'''
:*''Takara ID number'': '''TRF-10'''
:*''Accessories'': 12 missiles
{{toydesigner|[[Takio Ejima]] (TakaraTomy), [[Masakatsu Saito]] (concept artist)}}

: Released in the second (proper) year of the US ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' toyline, Dreadwing transforms into a "flying wing" style stealth bomber similar to a {{w|Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit}} with underslung six-missile gatling cannon, and an additional six missiles mounted on his wings that can be released as bombs. In jet form, he can combine with his pack-in partner [[Smokescreen (G2)#Toys|Smokescreen]]'s jet mode to make a complete aircraft. When you remove Smokescreen he begins a partially automatic transformation into tank mode -- his wings flip up automatically, and his treads can be made to spring-load open with the press of a button. For some reason he came with an Autobot-style instruction book that instructed you to put Smokescreen's forehead sticker on the center of Dreadwing's face.

: Dreadwing's gatling gun, while tremendous fun, has the fatal flaw that the missiles don't lock into it. This means if you bump him in robot mode or swoosh him around in jet mode all his missiles will fall out. This is not what one would usually call "illin'". This led to every subsequent release of the mold being independently retooled, slightly differently each time, to allow their missiles to lock into the gatling gun.

: Dreadwing was sold in parts of Europe (including the United Kingdom) under the name "Stealth Assault", and in other markets under the name "Ace Evader". Neither version acknowledged Smokescreen as a separate individual.

: The back of the box on his [[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)#Japan|Japanese ''G-2'' release]] gives him three additional modes, named '''Dread Roadblock''' (ドレッド・ロードブロック), '''Hover Stealth Mode''' (ホバーステルスモード) and '''Crab Ambush''' (クラブ・アンブッシュ). Only the Dread Roadblock mode got given life in the third chapter of "[[The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 3|The Road to Legends' Rivival]]" in the ''[[Transformers Legends (comic)|Legends]]'' comic. This mode also requires the use of Smokescreen's missile launchers plugged into Dreadwing's hands.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1994/Decepticon/Dreadwing/dreadwing.htm More information on Dreadwing at TFU.info]''
{{G2DreadwingMold}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers'' (2010)===
{{anchor|TokyoToyShow}}
[[File:TokyoToyShowDreadwing.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Trading his giant gatling gun for shivs doesn't seem like the best exchange.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d2|'''Dreadwing & Smokescreen''' (Multi-pack, [[2010]])}}</ul>
:*''Release date'': [[July 17]], 2010
:*''Known designers'': [[Masu Yoshi]] (TakaraTomy, deco)

:Available [[exclusive]]ly at the [[Tokyo Toy Show]] 2010, this Dreadwing & Smokescreen set is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' Voyager Class [[Mindwipe (ROTF)#Toys|Mindwipe]] and Scout Class [[Skystalker (ROTF)#Toys|Skystalker]] respectively. [[TakaraTomy]] designer Masu Yoshi's inspiration for this set apparently stemmed from a desire to compete with [[BotCon 2010]]'s ''Generation 2'' theme for its exclusive toys.<ref>[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/314218-g2-2010-dreadwing-smokescreen-gallery.html#post5009658 Japanese fan masabon reports on TakaraTomy designer Masu Yoshi's inspiration for the Dreadwing & Smokescreen set at TFW2005.com]</ref>

:Besides the obvious colour changes, the live-action movie Decepticon [[insignia]]s have been replaced with ''Generation 2'' Decepticon insignia.

:Dreadwing transforms from a bat-like robot into something similar to a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-117A Nighthawk|F-117 Nighthawk]] stealth ground attack aircraft. He has two flip-out swords/daggers slung under his arms that he can deploy to use as weapons. As part of his transformation, bending his wings back in [[robot mode]] activates a [[Mech Alive]] gear-driven feature where the tips of the wings retract and four small blades reveal themselves along the edge of the wing. Although not noted in the instructions, his feet can pivot to make him more stable.

:In [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]], Smokescreen can attach on top of Dreadwing's [[alternate mode]] via two pegs. This echoes the combination feature of the original toys.

:This mold was also used to make [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|2010 ''Transformers'']] [[Strafe (TF 2010)#Toys|Strafe]]. In 2014, the boxset was re-released as a lucky draw prize for the Transformers Celebration 2014 event held at Ikebukuro Sunshine City store's Toys"R"Us, though this was very likely remaining stock.
{{-}}

===''Generations''===
[[File:Gen-toy Dreadwing.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Exactly how illin' his weapon is has yet to be determined.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-d2|'''Dreadwing''' (Deluxe Class, Late 2013)}}</ul>
:*''Series / Number'': '''02 / #007'''
:*''Accessories'': 2 wingtips/cannon
:*''Known designers'': [[Joe Kyde]] (Hasbro)

: Released in the seventh wave of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Deluxes (the third wave to be sold under the ''[[Thrilling 30]]'' banner), Dreadwing is a redeco/"[[Retool#Gang-molded_alternate_parts|pretool]]" of Deluxe Class [[Megatron (G1)/Generations toys#Deluxe|Megatron]], using an alternate head included in the mold based on the original Dreadwing toy. He transforms into a stealth bomber based on the B-2 Spirit. His wingtips detach to combine and transform into a cannon that can peg into 5mm ports on his hands and forearms.

: He is packed in with a copy of [[IDW Publishing|IDW]]'s ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Shockwaves|#17]].

: This mold was retooled with another head to make ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' [[Krok (G1)#Timelines|Krok]], and then again with yet another head to make ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (toyline)|The Last Knight]]'' [[Megatron (Movie)/toys#TLKDeluxe|Megatron]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Decepticon/GenDreadwing/dreadwing.htm More information on ''Generations'' Dreadwing at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Transformers Character Card''===
[[File:Transformers Character Card Dreadwing and Smokescreen.jpg|upright=1|thumb]]
*'''Smokescreen & Dreadwing Set''' ([[October 17]], [[2023]])
**''ID number:'' '''61 & 62'''

:Released as part of the ninth wave of the [[e-HOBBY]] exclusive ''[[Transformers Character Card]]'' series, this pair of holographic trading cards depict super-deformed art of [[Smokescreen (G2)|Smokescreen]] and Dreadwing along with [[bio|character profiles]] and [[Tech Spec|tech specs]].
::*''[[Source:Transformers Character Card#62|Translation of Dreadwing's Transformers Character Card]]''

{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:Fram 02.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Insert ''"Company slogan joke"'' here]]
*Although his American and Japanese bios imply that he is a unique character, his physical model was [[repurposing|repurposed]] as the basis for [[Darkwing (G1)|Darkwing]]'s [[Darkwing (G1)#Generation 2|upgraded form]] in the [[Transformers: Generation 2 (Marvel)|Marvel ''Generation 2'' comics]].
*Dreadwing's instructions call him a "Heroic Autobot". This applies not only to the instructions included with his United States release, but also to both sets of instructions included with the Canadian release (English "Dreadwing" and French "Spectre"), as well as the European English/Spanish/Portuguese "Stealth Assault" and French/Dutch/German "Ace Evader" releases. Additionally, a German Toy Fair catalog refers to him as providing close air support for the Autobots. Chances are he was originally intended to be an Autobot, but was then given a faction change at the eleventh hour.
*[[AFCG Inc]] used Dreadwing for one of their print ads. The result is nothing short of amusing.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Dreadwing''' (ドレッドウイング ''Doreddouingu'')
*''Dutch:'' '''Ace Evader'''
*''French:'' '''Spectre''' (Canada), '''Ace Evader''' (Europe)
*''German:'' '''Ace Evader'''
*''Portuguese:'' '''Stealth Assault'''
*''Spanish:'' '''Stealth Assault'''

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry8TupFxILU Dreadwing commercial on YouTube]

[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Convention exclusives]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Legends Decepticons]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:Triple Changers]]
[[Category:Vok]]

Talk:Breakdown (WFC)

2024-12-01T04:39:59Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Backstory Confirmation */

'''Fiction-only Character?'''

Not sure what the policy is for him being listed as Fiction-only, but something seems wrong with this. I didn't want to change it without checking.--[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:58, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
:Fiction only basically means he doesn't have a toy. He appeared in a prose story and a video game "story". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:31, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
Yeah.....im gonna delete that catagory now and replace it with Upcoming toy releases--[[User:Mrgalvaprime|Mrgalvaprime]] 13:46, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

== Reference ==

Uh, shouldn't we add a scan of his appaerance in the comic? Considering it's different from the WFC one and all. ''--[[Special:Contributions/201.34.229.247|some anonymous guy]] who didn't sign his post''
: Why didn't you add it instead of asking why it wasn't there? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:17, 20 November 2010 (EST)
:: Oh I just don't know much about wiki editing and stuff, however I DO have a good pic of his whole body! http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/719/breakdownprime.jpg ''--[[Special:Contributions/201.34.229.247|some anonymous guy]] who will not sign his post because he isnt active on the wiki anyway''

==G1 Coloration?==
Should it be noted that his coloration is homage to g1 breakdown's?

== Legion Toy Size ==

"Despite his rival being Commander size, if we're lucky, he might actually be the same height due to Bulkhead Syndrome."
Nope.avi
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Drago11/Toys/img_0226.jpg
[[Special:Contributions/99.71.165.67|99.71.165.67]] 22:32, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

== Arms Micron Breakdown ==
I have recently seen an image on the shopping site E-Hobby of Arms Micron Breakdown (Voyager Class). I edited the image a bit to include both robot and vehicle.
[[Image:TFPrime-ArmsMicron-Breakdown.jpg|left|thumb|300px|It's HAMMER TIME!!!]]

==Cyberverse Legion Breakdown Update==
The Cyberverse Legion Breakdown figure is actually available now! Cyberverse Legion Breakdown is part of the second wave of Transformers Prime Cyberverse Legion figures. He transforms into a sort of SUV and Hummer hybrid with two 3mm holes on the roof of the car. In robot mode, there are two 3mm holes on the top of his hand and both his hands are molded as a 3mm holes as well. Breakdown also comes with a purple translucent gun that resembles the missile launcher he has on the show. The gun can peg into any of his 3mm holes.

== Character Picture? ==

Instead of the HowToDraw picture, perhaps use this? http://i.imgur.com/HZuUQ.jpg Like the one used on Knock Out's page? They're both unwatermarked versions of the pictures from jenniferhoffman.net {{unsigned|71.53.9.50|01:59, 2 July 2012 (EDT)}}
:I dunno, the How to Draw one looks fine to me. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:21, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

In the character picture's caption, can we link over to Menasor as that is what the caption is implying?

== Add more to his opening character? ==

Perhaps we should add a little more to Breakdown's intro? The Prime section of the intro paints him as just a bruiser, when in-show it's clear he's not just that a 2-D brute. Specifically, I would reference and allude to his close friendship with Knock Out; his decent treatment of the Vehicons in Stronger, Faster and Orion Pax; and his gratitude to Bulkhead for saving him from MECH. [[User:Chopperface|Chopperface]] 05:06, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== Fall of Cybertron ==

Is Breakdown in ''Fall of Cybertron''? The FOC page says yes, but there isn't a section for the game here. [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] 09:44, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
:If I recall correctly, he appeared solely as parts in multiplayer character customisation. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] 10:12, 21 March 2013 (EDT)

== Legacy ==

"According to Hasbro Pulse, he also comes with a drill bit accessory, but it isn't shown in any of the accompanying images." Does he actually come with it? [[User:ThatGuy79|ThatGuy79]] ([[User talk:ThatGuy79|talk]]) 18:23, 1 July 2024 (EDT)

==Backstory Confirmation==
Was it ever confirmed that this Breakdown was a Wrecker or not? I know him and Bulkhead have history, but I don't want to make any changes to this or the Wreckers page without confirmation. [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] 20:03, 30 November 2024 (PST)
:I have zero idea what you are talking about. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:12, 30 November 2024 (EST)
::I kind of found the lack of a semi in-depth backstory for Breakdown weird. I was curious, since I know that they have history, if Breakdown was implied/confirmed to have been on a team (namely the Wreckers) with Bulkhead. It just feels a bit barebones for a (formerly) important character. [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] 20:39, 30 November 2024 (PST)

Talk:Breakdown (WFC)

2024-12-01T04:39:36Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Backstory Confirmation */

'''Fiction-only Character?'''

Not sure what the policy is for him being listed as Fiction-only, but something seems wrong with this. I didn't want to change it without checking.--[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 16:58, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
:Fiction only basically means he doesn't have a toy. He appeared in a prose story and a video game "story". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:31, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
Yeah.....im gonna delete that catagory now and replace it with Upcoming toy releases--[[User:Mrgalvaprime|Mrgalvaprime]] 13:46, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

== Reference ==

Uh, shouldn't we add a scan of his appaerance in the comic? Considering it's different from the WFC one and all. ''--[[Special:Contributions/201.34.229.247|some anonymous guy]] who didn't sign his post''
: Why didn't you add it instead of asking why it wasn't there? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:17, 20 November 2010 (EST)
:: Oh I just don't know much about wiki editing and stuff, however I DO have a good pic of his whole body! http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/719/breakdownprime.jpg ''--[[Special:Contributions/201.34.229.247|some anonymous guy]] who will not sign his post because he isnt active on the wiki anyway''

==G1 Coloration?==
Should it be noted that his coloration is homage to g1 breakdown's?

== Legion Toy Size ==

"Despite his rival being Commander size, if we're lucky, he might actually be the same height due to Bulkhead Syndrome."
Nope.avi
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Drago11/Toys/img_0226.jpg
[[Special:Contributions/99.71.165.67|99.71.165.67]] 22:32, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

== Arms Micron Breakdown ==
I have recently seen an image on the shopping site E-Hobby of Arms Micron Breakdown (Voyager Class). I edited the image a bit to include both robot and vehicle.
[[Image:TFPrime-ArmsMicron-Breakdown.jpg|left|thumb|300px|It's HAMMER TIME!!!]]

==Cyberverse Legion Breakdown Update==
The Cyberverse Legion Breakdown figure is actually available now! Cyberverse Legion Breakdown is part of the second wave of Transformers Prime Cyberverse Legion figures. He transforms into a sort of SUV and Hummer hybrid with two 3mm holes on the roof of the car. In robot mode, there are two 3mm holes on the top of his hand and both his hands are molded as a 3mm holes as well. Breakdown also comes with a purple translucent gun that resembles the missile launcher he has on the show. The gun can peg into any of his 3mm holes.

== Character Picture? ==

Instead of the HowToDraw picture, perhaps use this? http://i.imgur.com/HZuUQ.jpg Like the one used on Knock Out's page? They're both unwatermarked versions of the pictures from jenniferhoffman.net {{unsigned|71.53.9.50|01:59, 2 July 2012 (EDT)}}
:I dunno, the How to Draw one looks fine to me. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:21, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

In the character picture's caption, can we link over to Menasor as that is what the caption is implying?

== Add more to his opening character? ==

Perhaps we should add a little more to Breakdown's intro? The Prime section of the intro paints him as just a bruiser, when in-show it's clear he's not just that a 2-D brute. Specifically, I would reference and allude to his close friendship with Knock Out; his decent treatment of the Vehicons in Stronger, Faster and Orion Pax; and his gratitude to Bulkhead for saving him from MECH. [[User:Chopperface|Chopperface]] 05:06, 2 January 2013 (EST)

== Fall of Cybertron ==

Is Breakdown in ''Fall of Cybertron''? The FOC page says yes, but there isn't a section for the game here. [[User:Mimi|Mimi]] 09:44, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
:If I recall correctly, he appeared solely as parts in multiplayer character customisation. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] 10:12, 21 March 2013 (EDT)

== Legacy ==

"According to Hasbro Pulse, he also comes with a drill bit accessory, but it isn't shown in any of the accompanying images." Does he actually come with it? [[User:ThatGuy79|ThatGuy79]] ([[User talk:ThatGuy79|talk]]) 18:23, 1 July 2024 (EDT)

==Backstory Confirmation==
Was it ever confirmed that this Breakdown was a Wrecker or not? I know him and Bulkhead have history, but I don't want to make any changes to this or the Wreckers page without confirmation. [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] 20:03, 30 November 2024 (PST)
:I have zero idea what you are talking about. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:12, 30 November 2024 (EST)
::I kind of found the lack of a semi in-depth backstory for Breakdown weird. I was curious, since I know that they have history, if Breakdown was implied/confirmed to have been on a team (namely the Wreckers) with Bulkhead. It just feels a bit barebones. [[User:TFEarthConquest|TFEarthConquest]] 20:39, 30 November 2024 (PST)

Talk:Breakdown (WFC)

2024-12-01T04:04:11Z

TFEarthConquest:

Transformers One (film)

2024-11-22T00:44:20Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers references */

{{Nav-one}}
{{movie|
|seriess=Transformers One
|prev=
|next=
|title=''Transformers One''
|image=Transformers One New Theatrical Poster.jpg
|caption=The motion picture you are about to see is an adaptation of the [[Transformers: Exodus|Exodus]] story. While artistic and historical license has been taken, we believe that this film is true to the essence, values and integrity of a story that is a cornerstone of faith for [[fandom|millions of people worldwide]].
|production companies=[[Hasbro Entertainment]] [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura|di Bonaventura Pictures]] Bayhem Films [[Paramount Animation]] New Republic Pictures
|distributor=[[Paramount Pictures]]
|executive producer=[[Steven Spielberg]] [[Zev Foreman]] [[Olivier Dumont]] [[Brian Oliver]] [[B.J. Farmer]] [[Matt Quigg]] [[Greg Moordain]]
|producer=[[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] [[Tom DeSanto]] [[Don Murphy]] [[Michael Bay]] [[Mark Vahradian]] [[Aaron Dem]]
|story by=[[Andrew Barrer]] [[Gabriel Ferrari]]
|screenplay by=[[Eric Pearson]] Andrew Barrer Gabriel Ferrari
|directed by=[[Josh Cooley]]
|cinematography by=
|edited by=
|music by= [[Brian Tyler]]
|release date=[[September 20]], [[2024]]
|runtime=104 minutes
|budget= $75 million
|box office=$129 million<ref>https://the-numbers.com/movie/Transformers-One-(2024)#tab=summary</ref>
|credits=Transformers One (film)/credits
}}

'''''Transformers One''''' is an animated film released on [[September 20]], [[2024]]. It is written by [[Eric Pearson]], [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]] from a story by Barrer and Ferrari,<ref name="deadlinereveal">[https://deadline.com/2015/09/transformers-writers-room-akiva-goldsman-transformers-5-1201531918/ 'Transformers' Writers Room Wraps] on Deadline</ref> and directed by [[Josh Cooley]].<ref name="cooleyreveal">[https://deadline.com/2020/04/transformers-animated-movie-paramount-hasbro-toy-story-4-director-josh-cooley-1202921100/ Animated 'Transformers' Prequel Activated; 'Toy Story 4's Josh Cooley To Direct For Hasbro/eOne & Paramount]</ref> The movie is an origin story set on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] three billion years ago<ref name="collidercinemacon">[https://collider.com/transformers-one-animated-movie-title/ New ‘Transformers’ Animated Movie Rolls Out a New Title at CinemaCon] on Collider</ref><ref name="screenrantsandiegocomiccon">[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-timeline-setting-takes-place// When Transformers One Takes Place In The Franchise Timeline] on Screen Rant</ref> in the days before the Autobot-Decepticon war, and focuses on [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (One)|Megatron]] as they go from brothers-in-arms to enemies.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />

{{bigquote|The line between friend and enemy is not as clear as I once believed. Once it's crossed, there is no going back. Because some transformations are permanent...|[[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]]}}

==Synopsis==
Long ago, the benevolent [[Primus]] sacrificed his life essence to become the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], and created the [[Thirteen|first generation of Transformers]], the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s. Through the power of the [[Matrix of Leadership]], [[energon]] flowed freely from the planet's core, and the Primes ruled justly for a time. However, when the alien [[Quintesson]]s began a long war of invasion, the Primes were eventually slain, and the Matrix of Leadership was lost, leaving only [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] to rule the planet in their absence after the Cybertronians relocated to massive underground cities, abandoning the dangerous surface.

[[File:TFOne Orion caught.jpg|left|thumb|300px|She's exhausted from the day's work. Uh, not that it was too much! We-we quite enjoyed it!]]
Fifty cycles after the war, Cybertronian society now relies on an [[Cogless|underclass]] of manual laborers born without [[transformation cog]]s, including a caste of miners who physically extract what few veins of usable energon remain from the tunnels beneath the subterranean [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] City, while Sentinel Prime makes periodic journeys to the surface in search of the missing Matrix. One impulsive miner named [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] has been searching for information regarding the Matrix, in the hopes that finding the artifact will restore Cybertron to prosperity and allow him and his fellow miners to choose their own path in life. Unfortunately, this search for information has led him to repeatedly break into the city's data archives without authorization. His latest attempt draws the unwanted attention of two [[Guard (One)|guards]] who have caught him several times in the past already, leading to a wild (and nearly lethal) chase through the skyways, through buildings, and eventually into the ground-level public transport station. Though the guards eventually catch up to Orion, the miner's friend [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] provides a distraction and sends the guards off on a wild goose chase. On the train to work, the pair discuss Orion's latest life-endangering adventure, and Orion, knowing that his friend idolizes the strongest Prime, gifts D-16 a rare first-edition decal of [[The Fallen|Megatronus Prime]]'s helmet he'd found.

[[File:TFOne Mine Explosion.jpg|right|thumb|300px|We're trying to get the funny man out of the well!]]
In the mines, D-16 and Orion work under the supervision of their go-getting captain [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]], using [[jet pack]]s and deployable support poles to keep Cybertron's shifting geology stable long enough for them to extract raw energon. However, [[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]] accidentally hits a vein of unstable energon, and the ensuing explosions trap [[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] under a rockfall. Orion and D-16 defy protocol and use a jet pack to save their coworker, but the chaos ends up damaging and destroying a lot of mine equipment. One of the mine's guards, [[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]], blames Elita for the disaster, and informs her she's been demoted to waste management duty, despite Orion sticking up for her and taking the blame.

That evening, Sentinel Prime returns to Iacon to announce that he still has not found the Matrix; to take the blow off this bad news, Sentinel declares that the prestigious [[Iacon 5000]] race will be held the next day. Orion tries to persuade D-16 to join him in the race, hoping that they can prove to the rest of Cybertron that mining bots deserve respect, but D-16 has no interest in the idea. On the day of the race, Orion discreetly leads D-16 to the maintenance area inside the giant starting signal above the race's starting line; while D-16 is initially excited to watch from a perfect vantage point, Orion reveals his true intention as he straps jet packs to the two just as the race begins and they're dropped into the thick of a throng of racing robots. Using their jet packs and some quick thinking to compensate for their inability to transform, the two dodge the numerous traps and obstacles and briefly manage to take the lead, sending bots across the city into a frenzy, especially their fellow cogless miners. The pair are just about to limp across the finish line and take first place, but end up being run down by [[Chromia (One)|Chromia]], who snags victory for herself. The pair figure they can still be proud of second place... until several dozen other racers whip by them in vehicle mode.

[[File:TFOne Sentinel visits.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I seek to build an empire, and your only goal is to amuse yourselves by tearing it down. Have I taught you nothing?]]
In Iacon's medical center, where many, many racers have ultimately ended up, Sentinel Prime meets with Orion and D-16; the pair are immediately certain they are in ''massive'' trouble, especially when they're scanned by Sentinel's creepy aide [[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] before his arrival, but it turns out it's quite the opposite. Sentinel ''loved'' their little stunt, and tells them that the miners' productivity after that showing was already at 150%. Sentinel offers them a chance to tour the mines and help inspire their comrades to work harder, with promises of some pampering along the way, and the pair quickly agree. However, Darkwing arrives before Airachnid can escort them to Sentinel's private quarters; infuriated that he nearly lost the race to the pair after they humiliated him, he drags them to the planet's fiftieth sub-level (ten levels below what they ''thought'' was the lowest level of the planet) and locks them in a trash incineration station.

The two bots soon meet the eccentric and exceptionally talkative [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]], who has been trapped at the job of "look at garbage and take anything of value out before it's burned" for years, with only garbage statues for "company". When one of B's pals "[[Steve (One)|Steve]]" utters some electronic gibberish, Orion accidentally beheads the "bot", but discovers within the wreckage an old beacon from the Quintesson war, still broadcasting a set of coordinates located somewhere on the planet's surface. Orion, B-127, and D-16 decide to investigate, escaping the only way they can: by climbing up the dump chute. Ew. The trio stow away aboard an automated surface-bound garbage train but coincidentally encounter Elita-1, who now works the refuse line. She handily clobbers the three but ends up locked in the train with them as it departs. She heads for the front, intending to report them to security, a mad dash that gets all the harder as the train starts moving vertically towards its destination. She manages to pop a hatch and make it out of the train, and the trio gives chase, but all four are stopped cold as they're enveloped in light and they find themselves traveling along Cybertron's surface.

The four are stunned by the planet's natural beauty, only to become horrified as said natural beauty starts violently heaving upwards behind them, tearing up the self-building rail and scattering train cars. They run for it but are thrown off, waking in just enough time to completely miss another train, the rail un-building behind it. Elita is furious, but agrees to join Orion's search for the Matrix, on the conditions that 1) she's in command, 2) she holds the map, and 3) after they find the Matrix and bring it back, the other three turn themselves in for their idiotic plan and sing her praises to the authorities. Orion very quickly agrees, and the four head off, confused by the weird not-metal life growing on the surface. They spy a group of robotic quadrupedal lifeforms, which suddenly snap to attention and run for it as the ground begins to tremble. It's soon apparent the cause of their panic: a massive Quintesson spaceship! As the ship scans for any lifeforms (obliterating one of the Cybertronian fauna with a massive cannon blast when it ends up in the tracking beams), the four barely evade detection and the ship moves on.

[[File:TransformersOne-AlphaTrionTransformationCogs.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Take the staff in your hand, Moses. With it, you shall do My wonders.]]
Soon they find themselves at the end of the map's trail, a [[Mouth of Unicron|hidden and extremely creepy cave]]. Inside they find a scene of absolute horror: the spot where the ancient Primes made their final stand against the Quintessons, their bodies lying broken and covered in overgrowth. Although the Matrix is nowhere to be found, Orion discovers that [[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]'s spark still pulses and uses an [[energon cube]] provided by B to revive him. The four attempt to bring Trion up to speed on recent events, but their mention of "Sentinel Prime" causes Trion to reveal the terrible truth: Sentinel is an imposter, a traitorous aide who led the Primes into a Quintesson ambush in exchange for "ruling" Cybertron under the invaders' command. However, when Sentinel tried to claim the Matrix after prying it from [[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]]'s corpse, the artifact judged him unworthy and disappeared. To appease his new masters, Sentinel has deliberately stolen transformation cogs from newborn Transformers to keep them producing energon in the mines; at Trion's urging, the four emerge from the cave to witness Sentinel pledging servitude to the [[Quintesson High Commander]] and learn the city's garbage trains are actually transporting Cybertron's dwindling energon supplies to Quintesson ships, leaving barely enough for the people of Cybertron. These revelations leave the bots horrified, but D-16 takes it the worst of all, having also looked up to Sentinel for years. Alpha Trion decides to give the team hope by gifting them the transformation cogs from four of the fallen Primes, as well as a recording of Sentinel's treachery. However, Airachnid spotted the four when they were watching Sentinel's meeting with the Quintessons, and a squad of Sentinel's [[Tracker]]s arrive. Despite his disrepair, Alpha Trion uses his leonine alternate mode to wipe out the squad, allowing Orion and the others to escape, but is quickly incapacitated by Airachnid.

The four bots have a very rocky time learning to transform in the middle of fleeing a squad of Trackers, tumbling downhill with only ''parts'' of them shifting into their new vehicle modes, but desperation forces them to adapt ''very'' quickly. Each one finds new abilities and an aptitude for combat, and soon they're able to destroy their pursuers. Overjoyed at their victory, they make the plan to use the incriminating information Trion gave them by returning to Iacon and exposing Sentinel as a traitor. In their excitement, they fail to notice a Tracker about to shoot them from behind until D-16 uses his new tank mode to kill him first... and then starts laughing at what he just did. D-16 snatches the evidence and takes the lead, his ever-growing intensity and openly stated desire to kill Sentinel leaving Orion more and more unnerved.

Back in Iacon, Alpha Trion is brought before Sentinel, who mocks the "old-timer" and gloats about his station, complaining to Airachnid about the Primes' stuffiness and boring speeches. Trion's word of warning that Sentinel's time will soon be over only annoys the false Prime further, and in a fit of rage he kills the ancient Prime before sending Airachnid back to the surface to hunt down the wayward miners.

[[File:TFoneStarscreamSoundwaveShockwaveInterrogation.jpg|left|thumb|300px|You're playing with the big boys now!]]
Along the path to Iacon, a series of shots ring out, and each bot slips into stasis... Orion and the others are brought back online, bound (and gagged in B's case) as prisoners of the former members of Cybertron's [[High Guard]], who have been fighting a guerrilla war against the Quintessons ever since the fall of the Primes, led by [[Starscream (One)|Starscream]]. D-16 is not impressed, and giving into his growing rage, challenges Starscream's authority, and the two quickly end up in a brawl. While Starscream plays it tough even as D-16 crushes his neck and damages his speech module, his attitude soon changes as D-16 manifests a massive cannon on his arm, aimed directly at Starscream's head. The Guard quickly rallies behind their new leader, ready to take the fight to Sentinel... but Airachnid's forces arrive and ambush them.

[[File:TFOne Airachnid attacks.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Not much of a snake-charmer, are you?]]
Orion, having been buried in the battle, awakens when Elita drags him from the rubble to find that D-16, B-127, and much of the Guard have been taken prisoner, and the data crystal containing the evidence of Sentinel's betrayal has been shattered. Orion despairs, believing their quest to be hopeless now, but Elita won't have it. Though she's still not above taking some digs at Orion, she points out that it is the bot's endless ''optimism'' that makes him a true leader, one that can make bots do amazing (and occasionally amazingly ''stupid'') things. Orion takes the praise (and insults) and decides it's time to rally, and the two quickly formulate a plan; the Guard may be strong, but the last battle proved they aren't enough on their own, they need a true army... and Orion knows exactly where to get one. After Elita quickly shuts down any dissent from the remaining Guard (thanks to a very swift punch to [[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave's]] eye), Orion primes the warriors for the coming battle, with a cry of "''[[Roll out|Transform and ROLL OUT]]!''"

The captives have been brought to Sentinel's tower, where the puppet leader gloats over them, mocking Starscream's scrambled voice and sneering at D-16. But the miner does not cower or balk at all, declaring that he is not afraid of Sentinel, as he has nothing left to lose. Noticing the worn Megatronus decal, Sentinel reveals that he took Megatronus's transformation cog when he killed him, ripping the decal from the miner's arm before slapping it back onto his chest... and then, knocking the miner on his back, using a mining tool to crudely ''carve'' the Prime's face into D-16's chest.

Orion uses his new form to rocket-glide into the depths of Iacon City, entering the miners' quarters (and bodily hurling Darkwing aside in the process). Orion reveals the truth to the miners and rallies them to join forces with the High Guard and rebel against Sentinel's regime. Meanwhile, Elita, Shockwave, and [[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] have commandeered a returning "garbage" train, transporting the Guard into the city in a sneak attack. But the sudden appearance of hundreds of Trackers makes things look very bad for the plan... until Orion and the miners leap into the fray and cut a swath through the incoming horde, armed with their jet packs and mining tools. Airachnid attempts to kill Orion, slamming him into the train engine, and revealing the ''incredibly horrifying'' array of optics hidden in the back of her head. But her multi-scanning abilities give Orion a sudden idea as the train plows towards Sentinel's tower.

[[File:TFOneSentinelvsD16.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I will not be dictated to. I will not be threatened.]]
Sentinel, angered as D-16 once again attempts to rise up, is just about to blow the miner's head off when the train slams into his tower. Soundwave frees the prisoners and the fight spills across the city. Sentinel transforms into combat mode, but D-16 will not be deterred, the two launch into battle. Elita leaps into action, tackling Airachnid and attempting to take her prisoner (with only ''some'' gratuitously satisfying pummeling along the way). She drags the semi-conscious bot to one of Iacon's broadcast stations, and B makes a ''very'' over-enthusiastic entrance. Airachnid's memory banks are quickly scanned, and her memories of Sentinel's most recent meeting with the Quintessons are broadcast throughout the city, leading the populace to also join the fight.

Sentinel fares badly in his fight with D-16, and seeing his cowering before the Quintessons on dozens of screens, his empire in ruins, tries to flee, and when that fails, begs D-16 to spare him, claiming they can co-rule Cybertron. D-16 insists that Sentinel must die for his crimes, but Orion tries to convince his friend that they can be better than their enemies. D-16 violently disagrees, knocking his friend aside and readying the kill shot... only for Orion to leap in the path, the cannon blast tearing through his torso and sending him tumbling over the edge. D-16 grabs Orion's one good arm, horrified... ''that Orion would stop him from killing Sentinel''. With this betrayal, he vows he is ''done'' saving Orion from his mistakes and lets his dying friend plummet into Cybertron's depths. As Orion falls, D-16, insistent that there will be no more Primes, kills Sentinel by bisecting him with his hands. He then seizes Megatronus' cog from Sentinel's chest, replacing the one gifted to him by Trion, which transforms him into an even ''more'' battle-ready form. Declaring himself "Megatron", he commands the High Guard to destroy everything Sentinel built... in other words, what's left of the city.

[[File:One-Megs-Prime-face-to-face.jpg|thumb|300px|Goodbye... brother.]]
Meanwhile, the mortally wounded Orion falls through the planetary strata, which slides and shifts out of his way, until he finally reaches Cybertron's core. There, he encounters the spirits of the Primes as Trion announce that Primus has deemed him worthy for the future of Cybertron and to carry the Matrix of Leadership, reformatting Orion and restoring his spark to declare him the newest of the Primes: "Optimus Prime", before being sent rocketing back to the surface in a blaze of blue light.

Elita and B try and fail to stop Megatron's rampage, their former friend ready to kill them too, but Optimus smashes onto the scene. Megatron is incensed at this new betrayal both by his former friend ''and'' the Matrix itself, and launches himself at Optimus. During their fight, Optimus manifests an energy battle axe to fight against Megatron along with Starscream, Soundwave, and Shockwave before using it to destroy Megatron's new cannon, ultimately winning their fight. Unwilling to kill his oldest friend, Optimus reluctantly banishes Megatron and his new allies to the surface. Megatron seethes but decides that now is not the time, and takes his new army to the surface.

With the return of the Matrix of Leadership, Cybertron is restored to life: energon flows once again from the planet's core to the surface, and ''all'' of the cogless bots receive transformation cogs, becoming fully autonomous "[[Autobot]]s" who vow to defend Cybertron from any future Quintesson incursions. However, the Quintessons are not the only looming threat—though banished from Iacon, Megatron and his followers rechristen themselves the "[[Decepticon]]s" and swear revenge.
{{-}}

==Cast==
{{featuredcharacters
|h1=Miners
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax / Optimus Prime]] ([[Chris Hemsworth]])
*[[Megatron (One)|D-16 / Megatron]] ([[Brian Tyree Henry]])
*[[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]] ([[Scarlett Johansson]])
*[[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]] ([[Keegan-Michael Key]])
*[[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] ([[Evan Michael Lee]])
*[[Arcee (One)|Arcee]] ([[Jinny Chung]])
*[[Bluestreak (One)|Bluestreak]]
*[[Brawn (One)|Brawn]]
*[[Firestar (One)|Firestar]]<ref group=note name="uncredited">Denotes a character, or unidentified members of a group, who speaks, but has no credited voice actor. The performance was likely done by an ADR voice cast member.</ref>
*[[Hound (One)|Hound]]
*[[Huffer (One)|Huffer]]
*[[Ironhide (One)|Ironhide]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Mirage (One)|Mirage]]
*[[Moonracer (One)|Moonracer]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Prowl (One)|Prowl]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Ratchet (One)|Ratchet]]
*[[Red Alert (One)|Red Alert]]
*[[Sideswipe (One)|Sideswipe]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Smokescreen (One)|Smokescreen]]
*[[Sunstreaker (One)|Sunstreaker]]
*[[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Windcharger (One)|Windcharger]]

|h2=[[High Guard]]
|c2=
*[[Starscream (One)|Starscream]] ([[Steve Buscemi]])
*[[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] ([[Jon Bailey]])
*[[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave]] ([[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]])
*[[Skywarp (One)|Skywarp]] (Josh Cooley)
*[[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]]
*[[Dirge (One)|Dirge]]
*[[Ramjet (One)|Ramjet]]
*[[Thrust (One)|Thrust]]
*[[Slipstream (One)|Slipstream]]
*[[Redwing (One)|Redwing]]

|h3=[[Thirteen#One film|Primes]]
|c3=
*[[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]] ([[Laurence Fishburne]])
*[[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]] ([[James Remar]])
*[[The Fallen#One film|Megatronus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime#One film|Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime#One film|Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo#One film|Liege Maximo]]
*[[Micronus Prime#One film|Micronus Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime#One film|Nexus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Onyx Prime#One film|Onyx Prime]]
*[[Prima#One film|Prima Prime]]
*[[Quintus Prime#One film|Quintus Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime#One film|Solus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Vector Prime#One film|Vector Prime]]

|c4=
*[[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] ([[Jon Hamm]])
*[[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] ([[Vanessa Liguori]])
*[[Quintesson High Commander]]
*[[Quintesson Soldier]]s
*[[Primus]]
*[[Tracker]]s<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Guard (One)|Guards]] ([[Steve Blum]], Jason Konopisos-Alvarez)
*[[Announcer Bot]] (Steve Blum)
*[[Control Room Guys]] (Josh Cooley)

'''Racers'''
*[[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]] ([[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]])
*[[Chromia (One)|Chromia]] (Jinny Chung)
*[[Injured Racer]] ([[Dillon Bryan]])

|nonumbering=true
}}
<references group=note/>

==Quotes==
"Let me guess. Chased out of the archive?" 
"Yeah. I had to jump out of a window this time. Almost died. It was wild." 
"And digging through ancient data is worth dying for?" 
"Yes, it is." 
"Oh, I need a new best friend..."
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' meet up before their shift.

"Are you ''crazy?!''" 
"Sure feels like it!"
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' summing up their initial relationship.

"Every day. Every ''single day'' of my life. Has been... a lie! You just '''had''' to do it, didn't you?" 
"Me? What did I do?" 
"You just had to go to the surface, had to enter the Iacon 5000, you just '''HAD''' to break protocol!" 
"Who cares about protocol?" 
"'''I do'''! I care! Because nothing bad happens when you ''stay on protocol!''" 
"Sentinel Prime has been forcing us to work in the mines until our gears strip. And all the while he's been giving our Energon away to our greatest enemies!" 
"Uh, and what do you think he's gonna do to us when he finds out that we know?!" 
"I'm not ''thinking'' about what he's going to do, I'm thinking about what ''we're'' going to do." 
"That's the whole thing! You're never thinking about anything else, just yourself. Fantastic! Another Orion Pax 'master plan'! I can't wait to hear this!" 
"Don't you want to stop him?" 
"NO, '''I WANT TO KILL HIM!''' I wanna put Sentinel in chains and march him through the mines so everyone can see him for the '''false Prime''' that he is! I want him to suffer, and then to ''die'' in ''darkness.'' But we all know it doesn't matter what I want, ''right'', Pax? The fact is, we're just cogless bots. Right? We had limited options, and now... now we have ''none''."
:—The first cracks show in '''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''''s friendship.

"What defines a Transformer is not the cog in his chest, but the spark in that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. My fellow Primes had that spark. And I see their strength in you. Take their cogs and access your full potential. Prima. Onyx. Alchemist. Micronus. Warriors of noble spirit, loyalty, strength. Their uniqueness enhanced by these. They were one. ''You'' are one. '''ALL''' are one!" 
"Wait. We have... You-- You gave us..." 
"The ability to change your world. How you choose to use that power is up to you."
:—'''Alpha Trion''' inaugurates '''Orion Pax''' and our heroes with the tried and true phrase.

'''Starscream''': Now, are you spies, or incompetent lackeys? 
'''Orion Pax''': We're not spies. 
'''Elita-1''': But he is incompetent.
:—Elita-1 on her boss-to-be

"Uh... why is he gagged?" 
"He wouldn't stop talking." 
"Even when he was unconscious?" 
"''ESPECIALLY'' WHEN HE WAS UNCONSCIOUS!"
:—'''Elita-1''' asks '''Shockwave''' about B-127's restraints.

"Hey! What are you doing?" 
"I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not cowering in some busted ship, playing king of the throne. I'm not pretending that I'm making a difference by throwing one punch and running away to hide. I found out that Sentinel is rotten today, and I'm going to make him pay for it! TODAY!" 
"You think you can insult me and just walk away? No one leaves unless I say so." 
"Is that right? Well, how can you say so... with my head in your teeth?"
:—'''Starscream''' and '''D-16''', right before he beats the living scrap out of him.

"Bear witness! ''This'' is the '''last''' time I show mercy! Decide right now! You can stay here in hiding, bowing before your pathetic leader, or follow me as we march on Iacon and I take down Sentinel '''ONCE AND FOR ALL!'''"
:—'''D-16''', as he usurps the High Guard's leadership from Starscream.

"Listen to me, I really want you to hear this. Are you listening?" 
[Orion looks up at Elita] 
"I'm better than you." 
"Yeah, okay, I'm hearing you." 
"I'm better than you in every way, ''except'' you have hope. You always have. You went back into the mine to rescue Jazz, you snuck up to the surface to find the Matrix of Leadership!" 
"Oh, yeah, and how'd that work out?" 
"My point is that your instincts tell you to break protocol for a ''reason''. This blind optimism that you have is why you make such bold and courageous choices. That are also extremely stupid." 
"First time giving a pep talk?" 
"You're inspiring. You can envision a better future that no one else can see. If you ever want to see B and D-16 again, that, ''that'' is the Orion Pax that we need right now. Listen to me. We can do this."
:—'''Elita-1''' attempts to give '''Orion Pax''' a pep-talk. ''Attempts'' to.

'''Soundwave''': "What is our first move?" 
'''Orion Pax''': ''(quietly and intensely)'' "We roll out." 
'''Skywarp''': "...what?!" 
'''Elita-1''': ''(quietly)'' "Louder!" 
'''Orion Pax''': "TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT!"
:—Orion realizes that dramatic one-liners aren't that dramatic if no one can hear them.

'''Jazz''': "Is that... Orion?" 
'''Orion Pax''': "Jazz." 
'''Jazz''': "Is it really you?" 
'''Orion''': "Yeah, I know I, uh, look a little... different." 
'''Jazz''': "Little? There's nothing 'little' about you." 
'''Ironhide''': "Uh- How is this possible?" 
'''Moonracer''': "Sentinel told us you died from your race injuries!" 
'''Orion''': "Sentinel is a '''liar'''." 
'''Arcee''': "Huh?" 
'''Ironhide''': "What?" 
'''Orion''': "Look, I know how this will sound coming from me. I was never the most... ''focused'' miner, but as you can see, everything is different now. I went to the surface. And I learned the truth. My friends, we were ''all'' born with transformation cogs. And then Sentinel, ''he stole them from us.'' '''He took away our ability to make our own decisions.''' '''''He stole our freedom.''''' But now, I'm offering you your first '''real choice'''. You can work a twenty-third shift and mine yourself to death, or fight back against Sentinel with me. Right now." 
'''Sideswipe''': "How are we supposed to do that?" 
'''Arcee''': "We can't fight. We don't have cogs." 
'''Orion''': "What defines a Transformer is not the cog in its chest, but the spark that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. And that spark, Sentinel can ''never'' take from us." 
'''Jazz''': "There's not enough of us. We need an army." 
'''Orion''': "And we have one. Elita is bringing troops. We are not alone in this. If we want to be in control of our own destiny, we will have to fight for it. Now is the time for us to stand up. For ourselves. Stand up for this injustice! I promise you, this fight will be worth it. Follow me. Nothing can stop us when we stand together! Together as '''one!'''"
:—And with the miners chanting his name, Orion Pax delivers his first heroic speech.

''(Airachnid opens the back of her head to reveal'' dozens ''of eyes.)'' 
"You can't win, miner! ''I see '''everything!'''''" 
"That's right, you do... Except the tower we're about to crash into."
:—'''Airachnid''' gets creepy and '''Orion Pax''' gets an idea.

"You pathetic little twits! Did you really think that you could knock down everything I've built?!" 
"It's over, Sentinel! You can't escape the truth!" 
"What truth? That I plucked the cogs from your newborn chests? Forced you to mine so that I could pay off the Quintessons and live like a king? None of that matters! Because the truth... Is. ''WHAT. I. '''MAKE IT!'''''"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' teaches '''Orion Pax''' that he won't go down without a fight.

"What's wrong, D-16? Rise up!"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' mockingly gives D-16 his future slogan.

"I'm ''done'' saving you."
:—'''D-16''' lets his ''former'' friend fall.

"The Age of Primes has ended! '''NO MORE FALSE PROPHETS'''! Follow me, and you will ''never again'' be ''deceived!'' '''RISE UP!''' ''I'' will lead us all into the future! ''I...'' '''AM...''' '''''MEGATRON!'''''"
:—With the death of Sentinel Prime, '''D-16''' renames himself as '''Megatron'''

"''Orion Pax.'' Your noble sacrifice for the greater good has proven you worthy in the eyes of Primus. He entrusts in you the future of Cybertron, and... the Matrix of Leadership! '''Arise...''' '''''Optimus Prime.'''''"
:—Speaking for Primus, '''Alpha Trion''' and the Primes rebuild Orion Pax.

"We could have built the future ''together!"'' 
"I'll build it myself. After I tear down everyone '''''IN MY WAY!'''''"
:-'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' set the stage for eons of conflict to come.

"We were given the power to change our world, and you chose to destroy it. Just like Sentinel. You have betrayed Cybertron and its citizens, and you betrayed... ''me.'' Go. Take the High Guard, and leave. You are banished from Iacon. It didn't have to end this way." 
"This isn't over... ''Prime.''"
:—'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' share one final exchange.

"This is the greatest day of my life... I get to work for the ''government''!"
:—'''B-127''' knows a good benefits package when he sees one.

"And now we stand here together as one, proving we all have the power to transform; to become who we were destined to be; to right wrongs; to make our world better. Because here, freedom and autonomy are the right of all sentient beings. Here, all are truly ''Autobots''. This message is a warning to all Quintessons: If you dare return to Cybertron, the Autobots will be waiting. ''I'' will be waiting. I... am ''Optimus Prime''."
:—'''Optimus Prime''' gives his first dramatic ending monologue...

"Sentinel, the betrayer, is dead. But his death has given life to a new enemy...a stronger enemy... a ''personal'' enemy. We will ''not'' be blinded by his deception! We are the ones who are... '''DECEPTICONS! ''RISE UP!'''''"
:—...and '''Megatron''' gives the coming darkness its new name.

==Continuity notes==
The movie that would ultimately become ''Transformers One'' entered preliminary development in early 2015, when the project was first pitched as part of a writer's room that would lay out a number of sequels, prequels, and spinoff films that would turn the ongoing [[live-action film series|slate of live-action movies]] into a proper "cinematic universe", an attempt to cash in on the then-meteoric hype of the {{w|Marvel Cinematic Universe}}. Like pretty much all the other "cinematic universes" pitched at around this time, this ambitious vision was not to be: following the box-office bomb that was ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight]]'', most of these projects were shelved, while others were heavily reworked—perhaps most infamously, ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'' was recut into a film that contradicted ''The Last Knight'' and its depictions of Bumblebee fighting in [[World War II]], shifting the film and [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|its sequel]] into a more ambiguous "soft reboot" that only loosely connect to the five Bay films.

It appears that a similar conceptual drift occurred over the course of ''Transformers One'''s production. When the film entered full production in mid-2020, ''One'' was said to be "separate and apart" from the ongoing live-action films, though at the time just ''how'' distinct the film would be from its predecessors remained a mystery.<ref name="cooleyreveal" /> When later asked if the film was a prequel to the live-action films, a reboot, or its own universe, director Josh Cooley answered "yes" to all of the above.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref> While a few details and visual nods—such as Bumblebee's original name of "B-127", the function of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in which it dissolves into dust if it deems someone unworthy to wield it and the incorporation of a closing monologue delivered by Optimus—referenced the live-action films, the film otherwise draws heavily upon the mythology first laid down in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity family]] and has gone on to inform just about every major ''Transformers'' universe afterwards, particularly in its depiction of Orion Pax and D-16 as former allies fighting against a corrupt Cybertronian government.

As the film's release date drew closer, multiple comments from the film's creatives indicated that the filmmakers viewed the movie as something entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films. In July, Josh Cooley stated that the film was set in a "new Transformers continuity"<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "Hey little nerd in my profile picture, what if I told you someday you'll create a new Transformers continuity, that begins earlier than anything you've seen on the Transformers lore timeline, with the greatest crew and cast ever assembled?"|link= https://x.com/CooleyUrFaceOff/status/1817235351095894510?t=Oju3b9v53cYIHlH4MLEsXg |name=Josh Cooley|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=7|day=27}}</ref>; in another interview from a week before release, di Bonaventura ultimately admitted that ''One'' didn't fit into the chronology of the live-action films, and described ''One'' and the live-action films as "two universes" that would be "[kept] separate".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> These statements were ultimately borne out by the movie itself, which featured multiple plot points that are pretty much irreconcilable with the live-action films—early on, the film establishes that [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] is long dead, negating his appearance in ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; additionally, the movie ends with the newly christened Megatron killing Sentinel Prime, leaving no wiggle room for the events of ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]'' to occur. As a result, the wiki has opted to treat ''One'' and any potential sequels as a new [[continuity family]] entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films.

==Transformers references==
* As with pretty much every major ''Transformers'' project since 2010, ''Transformers One'' is the latest interpretation of the modernized ''Transformers'' backstory that originated with [[Binder of Revelation|Hasbro's internal design documents]] and was first laid down in ''[[Transformers: Exodus]]''—the story of [[Primus]], the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]], and the origins of Optimus Prime and Megatron as former friends who fought against inequality on pre-war Cybertron until Megatron's extremism drove them apart. Notably, this version of the story portrays both Orion and Megatron as [[energon]] miners on the bottom of Cybertron's caste system—most other interpretations have instead depicted Orion as a somewhat higher-ranking data clerk. While other tellings of the story have Orion advocating for non-violent social change, this take on the origin ends with Orion Pax working alongside the future Decepticons to directly overthrow the reigning Prime, evoking [[IDW Publishing|IDW]]'s ''[[The Transformers: Autocracy|Autocracy]]'' miniseries.
* Many contemporary works of pre-war ''Transformers'' fiction have established that pre-war Cybertronians organized themselves under a job-based [[Functionism|caste system]], with miners and other manual laborers occupying the lowest ranks of Transformer society. ''One'' features a very simplified version of this hierarchy, where Cybertronians without transformation cogs are an oppressed underclass while other Transformers receive additional rights and job opportunities.
* With the exception of D-16—whose origins as a low-ranking miner date back to IDW's ''[[The Transformers: Megatron Origin|Megatron Origin]]''—all of the other miners shown in the film go on to join the Autobots, while the forerunners of the Decepticons are depicted as ex-members of the elite [[High Guard]]. This specific class divide dates back to the ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'' episode "[[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4]]" and, to a lesser extent, "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]", which explained the war between the Autobots and Decepticons as an entrenched conflict between civilian laborers and military robots.
* All the character designs are far closer to their Generation 1 designs (both the cartoon and the original toys) than the previous films. Characters also earn their iconic design traits in pivotal scenes, such as Optimus Prime's [[Energon-axe]] and [[mouthplate]], or Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. In the final scene, many miners gain details to match their Generation 1-selves even closer after they receive their cogs; in particular, Arcee gains her pink visor from ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''. Starscream, Soundwave, and Megatron's newly applied insignias in the post-credits scene are also in the same place as their original counterparts, with Starscream's even being upside-down!
* Optimus Prime's original identity of "Orion Pax" is a name taken from the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". Notably, the cartoon's version of Orion Pax was also a manual laborer, although the film does seemingly pay homage to Orion Pax's other famous job by having him sneak into the Cybertronian Archives at the very beginning of the film. D-16 takes [[Dion (G1)|Dion]]'s place as his best friend and co-worker.
* The 'bot who will one day be known as "Megatron" initially goes by the name "D-16", a moniker lifted from ''Exodus'' and itself based on the [[TakaraTomy]] ID number of the [[Megatron (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original Megatron toy]]. D-16's original body—with a black, dome-shaped helmet and yellow eyes—references Megatron's [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel Comics appearance]], which in turn was based on concept art for an unproduced prototype version of the original Takara Micro Change figure. Much like Orion Pax, his modern gladiator job is paid homage in his fight with Starscream.
* B-127 is heavily based on his [[Bumblebee (Movie)|live-action film series counterpart]]: his helmet design and blasters bear a resemblance to his appearance in those films; additionally, his overly-talkative nature is a meta-gag about his "future" self being best known for not being able to speak. The name "B-127" derives from the [[Bumblebee (film)|''Bumblebee'' movie]], where, much like this film, he did not receive the name "Bumblebee" on Cybertron. B-127's battle mask resembles his [[Bumblebee (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart's]] [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original toy]]; towards the end of the film, he fights with a pair of "knife hands" seemingly based on ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]'' Bumblebee's melee weapons.
* In general, Elita-1 doesn't draw upon as many specific references as her co-stars, although her purplish-pink color scheme and motorcycle [[alternate mode]] may be a reference to her [[Elita-One (Movie)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' design]]. Notably, of the four main protagonists, Elita's the only one who ''doesn't'' have an alternate alias—especially odd given that her [[Elita One (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] originally went by "Ariel" in the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". (This exclusion is perhaps less odd when one considers that subsequent to 1985, [[Disney]] secured a near-stranglehold on toys named "{{w|Ariel (The Little Mermaid)|Ariel}}".)
* Sentinel Prime is based on [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]], the former leader of Cybertron in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity]]. Like that version of the character, this take on Sentinel Prime is explicitly a "false" Prime who never carried the Matrix of Leadership, and a puppet ruler who was appointed to the position by the Quintessons. Design-wise, this take on Sentinel draws from his "Aligned" counterpart, his [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|''Dark of the Moon'' appearance]], and has details from his [[Sentinel Prime (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]] and the thematically similar character, [[Nominus Prime]]. Sentinel's battle mode is inspired by his [[Apex Armor (G1)|Apex Armor]] from the ''Megatron Origin'' comic. He also has his [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]]'s glorious chin, as well as carrying on his 'arrogant jerkwad' personality rather than the more stoic attitude of other Sentinels. His double-bladed weapon takes specific inspiration from DOTM Sentinel's [[Primax Blade]], now with the additional ability to retract one or both of its blades when required.
* Airachnid is derived from the ''Prime'' [[Airachnid (Prime)|character of the same name]]—a notable inclusion given the primarily G1-based main cast—sharing a similar design, alternate mode as a helicopter, and antagonistic personality. Role-wise, however, she draws from her [[Airachnid (G1)|IDW 2005 counterpart]] being a subordinate of the [[Starscream_(G1)/2005_IDW_continuity|shady sovereign ruler of Cybertron]].
* Like Sentinel Prime, the Quintessons are primarily based on their depiction in the "Aligned" lorebook [[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|''The Covenant of Primus'']], which depicted them as shadowy manipulators who ruled Cybertron and exploited its natural resources through a proxy government; notably, the Quintessons in the ''Covenant'' helped maintain their hold on Transformer civilization by withholding the power to transform from the general populace. In a notable deviation from traditional ''Transformers'' lore, the bodies and starships of the film's Quintessons appear to be organic in nature.
** It is ambiguous to what the origin of the Quintessons actually is. In most modern media, the Quintessons are the renegade creations of Quintus Prime (such as in ''[[Transformers: EarthSpark]]''). While they do share some similarities, such as part of their names, multiple appendages, need for Energon, and their coloration, nothing is ever stated that Quintus Prime created them. They aren't the creators of the Cybertronian race like in media before Primus was created, either. It is possible that the Quintessons are simply an alien race unrelated to the Cybertronians.
* Primus' design seen in the hologram Orion plays is largely based on the [[IP infringement|"third party"]] 01 Studio Seed figure, itself inspired by the oft-referenced [[:File:UltimateGuidePrimus.jpg|original character model]] for his planet-body from [[DK Publishing|DK]]'s [[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|''The Ultimate Guide'']]. His head and chest are closer to his ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' appearance, also pulling a simplified version of [[Primus#Cybertron|that toy]]'s transformation scheme. Primus' willing sacrifice of his locomotion and birthing of the Thirteen pulls from his appearance in the eponymous ''Covenant of Primus''.
* The Thirteen are similarly based on their "Aligned"' incarnations for their backstory and designs. Nexus, Megatronus, Solus, and Alchemist Prime also draw from their ''[[:File:NexusPrimeflankedbyotherPrimes.jpg|Timelines]]'', ''[[:File:Megatronus.jpeg|Titans Return]]'', ''[[:File:SolusPrime-PowerofthePrimes.jpg|Power of the Primes]]'', and ''[[:File:TheCitizen IaconusCitizens.jpg|Cyberverse]]'' designs, respectively, while Vector Prime is based squarely on his original ''Cybertron'' design.
* Megatronus is also inspired by his ''Revenge of the Fallen'' design, including his face being based on the Decepticon symbol (or vice versa in-universe), although it is far more obvious in this movie, coincidentally evoking [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]]. Megatronus' face becoming the in-universe inspiration for the Decepticon symbol reflects the real life story of [[Soundwave (G1)|Generation 1 Soundwave]]'s face inspiring the iconic symbol.
* Alpha Trion's abilities to recreate and store memories as information calls back to the archival role of his [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]. His alternate mode being a leonine beast with a unicorn-esque horn is a direct homage to his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]], itself based on his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Toys|cancelled BotCon toy]].
* The mysterious [[Thirteenth Prime]] is replaced with Zeta Prime, who also takes [[Prima]]'s role as leader and Matrix-bearer, though Prima himself is still present. Zeta's design is also based on "Aligned" Sentinel Zeta Prime, as he appears in the ''War for Cybertron'' video game.
* The Thirteen are not actually referred to as the "Thirteen", but rather the Primes or the "Council of Elders", a term that originated in ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''. This is likely because it would contradict Sentinel's narrative painting himself as a fourteenth Prime. Notably, none of the archives or displays of the Thirteen include Sentinel.
* The cameo miners mostly draw from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)/cast#Season 1|1984 Autobot cast of the original cartoon]], along with the [[Female Autobots]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], and recolors such as [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]. The background High Guard characters, meanwhile, are based on the endless Starscream recolors that have appeared throughout ''Transformers'', commonly known as the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]]. Notably, one of their helmet variations is based on [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity#Cybertron cartoon|''Cybertron'' Starscream]]'s, while some Seekers including [[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]] sport triple-barreled weapons on their arms that resemble the [[neutron assault rifle]] from ''Fall of Cybertron'' – specifically the split-in-half configuration seen in the [[Starscream (WFC)/toys#Generations|''Fall of Cybertron'' Starscream toy]] and its redecoes, even including a gear-shaped detail behind the barrels echoing the gears on the toy's accessories.
* Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream/the Seekers, and the cogged versions of Ironhide, Ratchet, and Arcee have details based on their ''Bumblebee'' designs.
*The jet modes of Starscream/the Seekers are also based on ''Bumblebee'', while Soundwave's vehicle mode is based on his [[Soundwave (ROTF)/toys#SS83|''Studio Series Bumblebee'' toy]]. Shockwave's alternate mode resembles his [[Shockwave (WFC)|''War for Cybertron'' counterpart]], and both he and Starscream/the Seekers have details from their [[War for Cybertron: Siege|''Siege'' toys]].
*When Orion "transforms" to run away from the guards, he moves his limbs in a way that evokes [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Toys|his original toy]]'s transformation.
* The Matrix causing Energon to flow and 'killing' the planet when lost calls back to the [[AllSpark]].
* When discussing their mining ability, Elita says Orion "[doesn't] have the touch or the power," a reference to the [[The Touch|beloved song]] from ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* The Iacon 5000 derives from the Marvel UK ''The Transformers'' [[Source:Darn 'n' Blast#Issue 326|issue 326's "Darn 'n' Blast" letter page]]. Many of the racers in the Iacon 5000 are characters from Generation 1 and ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]]'', with their colors and vehicle modes next to their names on the leaderboard, though they do not correspond to specific models except for the miners, Darkwing, and Chromia.
** Racers based on their Generation 1 counterparts include [[Mirage (One)|Mirage]], [[Clampdown (One)|Clampdown]], [[Silverbolt (One)|Silverbolt]], "[[Deadend (One)|Deadend]]", [[Slingshot (One)|Slingshot]], [[Cliffjumper (One)|Cliffjumper]], [[Dragstrip (One)|Dragstrip]], [[Swerve (One)|Swerve]], [[Powerglide (One)|Powerglide]], [[Jetstorm (One)|Jetstorm]], [[Windblade (One)|Windblade]], [[Afterburner (One)|Afterburner]], [[Blurr (One)|Blurr]], [[Fireflight (One)|Fireflight]], [[Cordon (One)|Cordon]], [[Breakdown (One)|Breakdown]], [[Swindle (One)|Swindle]], [[Tailgate (One)|Tailgate]], [[Lightspeed (One)|Lightspeed]], "[[Spinout (One)|Spinout]]", [[Greasepit (One)|Greasepit]], [[Scattershot (One)|Scattershot]], [[Inferno (One)|Inferno]], [[Motormaster (One)|Motormaster]], and "[[Hotrod (One)|Hotrod]]".
** Racers based on their ''Generation 2'' counterparts include [[Blowout (One)|Blowout]], [[High Beam (One)|High Beam]], [[Double Clutch (One)|Double Clutch]], [[Meanstreak (One)|Meanstreak]], [[Motormouth (One)|Motormouth]], [[Speedstream (One)|Speedstream]], "[[Roadrocket (One)|Roadrocket]]", [[Jolt (One)|Jolt]], and [[Staxx (One)|Staxx]].
** [[Override (One)|Override]] and [[Tankor (One)|Tankor]] are based on their ''[[Override (Cybertron)|Cybertron]]'' and ''[[Tankor (BM)|Beast Machines]]'' counterparts, respectively.
**Racers that are only named through dialogue are [[Tailwind (One)|Tailwind]], [[Strafe (One)|Strafe]] (spelled "Streak" in the Spanish subtitles), [[Skyfire (One)|Skyfire]], and original characters [[Thunderglide]] and [[Behemoth]]. Phew!
* After being knocked off the train and stranded on the surface, Elita-1 calls Orion, D-16, and B-127 a bunch of "idiot [[GoBots|go-bots]]".
* The film's themes, "Resting Place of the Primes" and "The Fall", includes a leitmotif from the main theme of ''Transformers: Prime'', which was also composed by Brian Tyler. "The Fall" also plays a motif lifted from ''The Transformers: The Movie'''s "[[Death of Optimus Prime]]" in a different key. More specifically, the motif is from when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] flatlines and dies. Fitting, as "The Fall" plays when Orion Pax is dropped into Cybertron's [[core]] and Optimus Prime is born. Incidentally, this scene and the music are also quite similar to when Megatron fatally shoots Bumblebee in the ''Transformers: Prime'' series finale "[[Deadlock (episode)|Deadlock]]".
*D-16's eye color gradually shifting from yellow to red upon declaring himself "Megatron" is similar to how his [[Megatron (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]'s eye color changed from blue to red after being denied the rank of Prime as seen in the flashbacks of "[[One Shall Rise, Part 3]]".
*The part of "The Fall" that plays when Megatron rips Sentinel in half also includes a leitmotif from [[Transformers: Fall of Cybertron|Fall of Cybertron's]] "The Great Exodus".
* The notion of the Matrix actively rejecting an "unworthy" candidate and disintegrating was a plot point in ''Revenge of the Fallen''.
* Alpha Trion announces "All are one!" as he bequeaths the main quartet their new transformation cogs, a reference to the classic slogan "[['Til all are one]]!" originating from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* An empty Matrix chamber is visible behind Orion's chest window after receiving his cog, even before finding the actual Matrix.
* The throne Starscream sits on is loosely based on the crown his [[Starscream (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] wore during his coronation in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.<ref>[https://youtu.be/fo7EwIlSNAs?si=8y1UWHCLv46WKzE7&t=190 Brian Tyree Henry & Josh Cooley Dissect The Evolution Of Megatron | Transformers One Behind The Shot]</ref>
*Soundwave scans Orion's electrical impulses to check if he is lying, a rarely referenced ability from his [[Soundwave (G1)|original toy's bio]].
*Shockwave's eye flickers when he speaks, just as it did in the original Generation 1 cartoon. Similarly, Optimus Prime's faceplate bobs up and down when he speaks.
* Starscream has a normal-sounding voice (for Steve Buscemi, anyway) when he first appears, but after D-16 crushes his [[voice box]] during their duel, his voice becomes shriller and scratchier in the style of [[Chris Latta]]'s portrayal of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] in the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]].
*Shockwave and Elita have a small rivalry, reflecting their Generation 1 versions in Elita's introduction episode, "[[The Search for Alpha Trion]]".
* Soundwave orders the High Guard to "[[Decepticon Mini-Cassette|eject]]" when descending on Sentinel's tower.
[[File:TFoneOrionJump.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Let my people go!]]
* During the battle in Sentinel Prime's tower, Orion leaps into the air and shoots one of the Trackers, with his midair pose homaging Optimus Prime's famous midair shooting pose from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Megatron is the 'bot who shoots Orion and leaves him on the brink of death until he is resurrected as Optimus Prime in what is likely a reference to the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". However, the specific framing of the scene—in which Megatron shoots Orion and drops him into the depths of the planet, only for him to find the Matrix and return as Optimus—is, however coincidentally, nearly identical to the events of [[Transformation (issue)|issue #9]] of ''Autocracy''. Orion finding the Matrix in the planet's core also evokes the climax of the ''War for Cybertron'' games.
* The fatal wounds Orion Pax sustained from D-16 before his descent into Cybertron's core strongly resemble the wounds Optimus Prime sustained at the end of the ''The Transformers'' episode "[[Dark Awakening (episode)|Dark Awakening]]".
* Megatron disposes of Sentinel Prime in the same manner that his [[Megatron (Movie)|live-action counterpart]] killed [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]]—by bisecting the bot with his bare hands. Similarly, this is also how the [[Rainmaker]]s disposed of Sentinel in the [[2019 IDW continuity]].
* When both Orion Pax and Sentinel Prime die, [[aggressive depigmentation|their bodies turn grey]].
* Orion is caught by a beam and brought to Primus to be reformatted into Optimus Prime, much like how Megatron was caught by [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] and reformatted into [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]].
* "Arise, Optimus Prime", intones Alpha Trion as Orion receives the Matrix, evoking the climax of ''The Transformers: The Movie'', in which a ghostly Optimus Prime said the same to [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] as he transformed into Rodimus Prime.
* When the energy burst from Optimus' return to the surface blows Megatron off his feet, he crashes to the ground in a [https://www.reddit.com/r/transformers/s/QRpmFJRCXz pose] identical to his G1 self after Optimus threw him off during their duel in ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* Megatron using a long piece of sharp, orange shrapnel to attack Optimus also comes from the iconic fight in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus using a defeated Shockwave's cannon to attack another enemy is a fighting move Optimus made in ''Dark of the Moon''.
* After Optimus and Megatron's fight concludes, Megatron is shown with "tear stains" of mech fluid under his eyes, precisely matching the fluid-streaks the original Megatron had running down ''his'' face after his fight with Optimus in ''The Transformers: The Movie''. In ''One'', Megatron then declares "This isn't over, Prime," mirroring his line from ''The Movie'': "It's over, Prime."
* When restoring Cybertron's Energon supply, Optimus holds the Matrix in the same pose Hot Rod holds it when transforming into Rodimus at the end of ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus' concluding narration is presented as a "message" being sent into space, continuing the recurring concept of the ''Transformers'' films ending in such a way, introduced in the [[Transformers (film)|first live-action movie]].
*Optimus' transformation during his ending monologue is accompanied by the original transformation noise.
* In the post-credits scene, Megatron brands the Decepticon insignia onto his troops much like his [[Megatron (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]] did in "[[A Bridge Too Close, Part I]]". Megatron also orders the Decepticons to "[[Roll out#Transformers_Animated|rise up]]", quoting his ''Animated'' counterpart who originated the phrase "transform and rise up" in "[[Megatron Rising - Part 2]]".
* While the newly christened Decepticons fire into the sky, the glow of the laser beams shines on Megatron's insignia in a way that homages the metallic effect of the [[:File:TF-G1-HD-Logo-Evil-Decepticon.png|original Decepticon ''The Transformers'' logo]], and many a [[scene transition]].

==Real-life references==
* One of B-127's "friends" is named [https://youtu.be/Dd7FixvoKBw?t=104 A-A-Tron].
* As Orion Pax and D-16 approach the finish line in the Iacon 5000, the announcer quotes verbatim Joe Starkey's call of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play_(American_football) The Play] from the 1982 Cal-Stanford game. "The most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heart-rending, exciting, thrilling finish in the history of—" It can be assumed he would say "The Iacon 5000" in place of "college football," had Chromia not sped past to win the race.

==Errors==
* The history record about Primus, the Primes, and the Matrix that Orion Pax watches in the archives is recorded by [[Laurence Fishburne|a voice]] that clearly belongs to Alpha Trion. Yet, the events described in the history record include the disappearance of the Matrix, which happened after the Primes were killed and Alpha Trion went offline. So how could Alpha Trion have made that recording when he was lying comatose in a cave during that time?
* Many of the miners based on recognizable characters appear multiple times in the background or between shots, with many, such as Ironhide, having numerous occupations and being in multiple places at the same time.
* The High Guard has the same issue. Slipstream is shown to have been captured by the Death Trackers, but is later shown to take part in the attack on Sentinel's tower. Thundercracker is sliced in half by Airachnid, but is present the rest of the film.
* Mirage, with the colors and land-based vehicle mode of his [[Mirage (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]], appears on the leaderboard of the Iacon 5000, but one of the cogless miners is clearly based on Generation 1 Mirage.
* Chromia is the racer that wins the Iacon 5000, but a bot that better resembles [[Chromia (G1)|Generation 1 Chromia]] appears as a miner too. Production designer Jason Scheier would confirm the miner bot is just a bot that resembles Chromia, while the one in the Iacon 5000 is the 'real' Chromia.
* One of the cogless miners is clearly meant to be [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], with a black crest, red pelvis, and red pips on his shoulders. However, the scene after the Iacon 5000 in Iacon's medical center has a voice on the intercom paging a "Dr. Ratchet".
* Airachnid's legs are floating behind her back in her conversation with Sentinel Prime after he murders Alpha Trion.
* When Starscream interrogates the main quartet in the High Guard lair, Slipstream's hands are [https://www.reddit.com/r/Transformemes/comments/1gw87v2/something_feels_missing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 positioned] as if she is holding a blaster but the blaster itself is not present at all, resulting in a rather awkward pose.
* The incriminating clips of Sentinel replayed from Airachnid's mind reuse clips from previous scenes of the movie instead of being from Airachnid's point of view. She wasn't exaggerating when she said "I see ''everything''"!
* Additionally, one of Sentinel’s lines in Airachnid’s mind isn’t present in the scene it should come from; her memory of the meeting with the Quintessons includes Sentinel saying “I’m working my miners as hard as I can”, a line that’s never said in the original scene.
* During the long take of Optimus Prime using his Energon axe to fight off Megatron, Starscream, Shockwave, and Soundwave at the end of the film, Soundwave's shoulder cannon is on his left shoulder. In every other shot of the film, he is depicted with the cannon over his right shoulder like his G1 counterpart usually does.

==Music==
A score album, ''[[Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]]'', features the original music by composer [[Brian Tyler]] and was released concurrently with the film. It notably repurposes a leitmotif from his work on [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|''Transformers: Prime'']] into this film's main theme. The score also has other Transformers references, both in the melodies and titles of the tracks. The composer, under his electronic side project "Are We Dreaming", also produced the end credits song, "If I Fall", featuring rappers [[W:Quavo|Quavo]] (of Migos fame) and [[W:Ty Dolla Sign|Ty Dolla $ign]].

Canadian DJ {{w|Excision_(musician)|Excision}} released the dubstep song "Together As One", which samples numerous lines from the film's cast, as part of the film's marketing campaign. Many of the lines in this song would go unused in the film's final cut. Chinese artist {{w|Yuqi}} released the song "ONE" as part of the film's Chinese marketing campaign. Neither song is present in the film.

==Reception==
{{quote|Just when you’re about to give up on stories that endlessly repackage the same trademarked properties, along comes a movie like Josh Cooley’s “Transformers One.” As its subtly confident title suggests, it carries itself as if nobody had ever made a Transformers movie before.|Matt Zoller Seitz|[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/transformers-one-film-review Rogerebert.com]}}

While [[Michael Bay]]'s ''Transformers'' films were notable for their record-breaking profits despite mixed to overwhelmingly negative reviews, ''Transformers One'' faced the opposite problem. While [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|the previous theatrical ''Transformers'' film]] met with mixed reviews, ''Transformers One'' enjoyed an almost universally positive reception from both film critics and casual moviegoers. Critics praised the film's visual design, its nuanced approach to characterization and worldbuilding, and the performances of the film's voice actors, with many singling out Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry for their portrayals of Orion Pax and D-16. As of October 2024, its RottenTomatoes rating sits at 89% positive critical reviews and 98% positive audience reviews.

In the United States and Canada, ''Transformers One'' was originally projected to gross between 30 and 40 million dollars on its opening weekend. Ultimately, the film only made 24.6 million dollars, and finished second in the box office behind ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}'' (which had been released ''two weeks'' prior) in a surprise upset. <ref> [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-office-can-transformers-one-borrow-a-page-from-spider-verse-and-recover-1236009559/ "Box Office: Can Transformers One Borrow a Page From Spider-Verse and Recover?"] </ref> In its second weekend, the film lost out out to rival animated robot movie ''{{w|The Wild Robot}}'', and ultimately took in a mere 9.2 million dollars after suffering a 62.8% drop. <ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/09/box-office-megalopolis-the-wild-robot-1236101618/ "'Wild Robot' Powers To Third Best September Animated Pic Debut With $35M; 'Megalopolis' Collapses With $4M & D+ CinemaScore; 'Saturday Night' Alive In Limited Release -- Box Office Update" </ref>

==Development timeline==
[[File:Transformers-One-Teaser-Poster.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''There can be miracles when you believe Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill Who knows what miracles you can achieve When you believe, somehow you will You will when you believe'']]
*March 27, 2015 — As part of the development of ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]'', [[Paramount Pictures]] negotiates with [[Akiva Goldsman]], hiring him to create a "writer's room" to build a cinematic universe.<ref name="goldsman">[https://deadline.com/2015/03/transformers-akiva-goldsman-paramount-sequels-spinoffs-1201400027/ Paramount Enlisting Akiva Goldsman To Ramp Up 'Transformers' Output] on deadline.com</ref> Among the writers hired are ''Ant-Man and the Wasp'' scribes [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]], who pitch the concept of an animated ''Transformers'' prequel set in the [[Live-action film series|live-action series universe]].<ref name="barrerferrari">[https://deadline.com/2015/05/transformers-ant-man-andrew-barrer-gabriel-ferrari-cybertron-1201433402/ 'Ant-Man' Scribes Andrew Barrer & Gabriel Ferrari Join 'Transformers' Writers Room] on Deadline</ref>
*December 20, 2018 — Following the release of ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'', [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] hints in an interview that the animated prequel is still in the works.<ref>[https://www.metro.us/will-there-be-a-bumblebee-2-whats-the-future-for-the-transformers-universe-heres-what-its-producer-told-us/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura interview for Metro USA]</ref>
*April 29, 2020 — Director [[Josh Cooley]] (''Toy Story 4'') is reported to have been brought into the project to oversee a final draft, which is said to be "separate and apart" from the live-action films.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />
*May 18, 2021 — [[Allspark Pictures]] President [[Greg Mooradian]] credits the animated ''Transformers'' film on his Linkedin page with a 2023 release.<ref>[https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-mooradian-4a5062200/ Greg Mooradian's Linkedin:] "TRANSFORMERS (Animated Feature), with Oscar-winner Josh Cooley directing (2023 release)"</ref>
*May 24, 2021 — Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]] confirms the animated feature is in development, and will be released at some point after ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|Transformers: Rise of the Beasts]]''.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/05/24/tfw2005-coverage-of-49th-j-p-morgan-conference-434088 TFW2005 Coverage Of 49th J.P. Morgan Conference]</ref>
*January 21, 2022 — Paramount announces an untitled animated Transformers movie will be released on July 19, 2024.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-release-date/ Collider: New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Release Date Set For 2024]</ref>
*April 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura reveals that the entire film takes place on Cybertron, and the setting explores how they begin to question the hierarchy of how their society has gotten stratified, and how the common man doesn't have the voice that they want to have.<ref name=collider2023>[https://collider.com/transformers-animated-movie-characters-plot-cybertron-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ Here’s What the New Animated ‘Transformers’ Movie Is About (Exclusive)]</ref>
*April 21, 2023 — A day after the previous interview, di Bonaventura confirms [[Industrial Light & Magic]]'s involvement as the film's animation studio, bringing the company back to the franchise for the first time since ''Bumblebee''.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-ilm-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ The New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Is Partnering With an Industry Giant for the CGI (Exclusive)]/</ref>
*April 27, 2023 — The first members of the film's voice cast are revealed, consisting of [[Chris Hemsworth]] as Optimus Prime, [[Brian Tyree Henry]] as Megatron, [[Scarlett Johansson]] as Elita, [[Keegan-Michael Key]] as Bumblebee, [[Jon Hamm]] as Sentinel Prime, and [[Laurence Fishburne]] as Alpha Trion.<ref>[https://variety.com/2023/film/news/transformers-animated-prequel-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235596692/ ‘Transformers’ Animated Prequel Sets Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and More Voice Cast]</ref>
*May 24, 2023 — Paramount moves the film's release date to September 13, 2024.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2023/05/transformers-one-release-date-pushed-by-paramount-1235379167/ ‘Transformers One’: Paramount Pushes Date For Animated Feature]</ref>
*June 7, 2023 — di Bonaventura teases how the film stands out from previous entries in the franchise, praises Chris Hemsworth's casting as Optimus Prime, and mentions a vocal transition from Hemsworth's voice to [[Peter Cullen]]'s as the character for audiences to witness. [[Steve Desmond]] and [[Michael Sherman]] (''Knock at the Cabin'') were revealed to be additional writers for the film, but where uncredited when the final credit came in.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ 'Transformers One' Producer Is Already Hyped for Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime]</ref>
*June 15, 2023 — Scarlett Johansson discusses the film's animation and praises Cooley as director.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqG5mlRxzs Scarlett Johansson Says Transformers One Looks So Cool]</ref> Chris Hemsworth later brings details on voicing Optimus Prime for the film and his reasoning he joined the project through his love of the script. He confirms that he will not use his regular voice for the character.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrsvSzWHoE Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime Sadly Won't Be Australian in Transformers One]</ref>
*July 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura confirms Optimus Prime and Megatron in the film will be depicted under their Orion Pax and D-16 identities.<ref>[https://onetakenews.com/2023/07/20/lorenzo-di-bonaventura-transformers-one/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura Teases Upcoming Film ‘Transformers: One’: “It’s Something I’ve Wanted To Do For A Long Time” (Exclusive)]</ref>
*December 15, 2023 — Keegan-Michael Key mentions his voice for Bumblebee is closer to his regular speaking voice.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLM71B5xmFY Transformers One: Keegan-Michael Key Reveals What Bumblebee Sounds Like in New Animated Film]</ref>
*April 11, 2024 — The cast of the movie previews the trailer and reveals a new logo for the film at Cinemacon 2024, The Hollywood Reporter also confirms [[Steve Buscemi]] has joined the cast.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-animated-movie-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235871998/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and Brian Tyree Henry Debut Origin Story 'Transformers One' - The Hollywood Reporter]</ref> During the presentation, Hemsworth revealed that Cullen served as a consultant on the getting the voice down.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-news-film-is-testing-very-well-and-peter-cullen-consulted-chris-hemsworth-on-voice/48127/ Transformers One News: Film is Testing Very Well and Peter Cullen Consulted Chris Hemsworth on Voice]</ref>
*April 16, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry announce the date of the film's first trailer being on Thursday, April 18, 2024, as it will be launched into space.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-trailer-premiered-from-space/ The 'Transformers One' Trailer Will Be Premiered From Space - Collider]</ref>
[[File:TransformersOne-weatherballoon.jpg|right|thumb|250px|''So how do you judge what a man is worth? By what he [[Toy|builds or buys]]? You can never see with your eyes on Earth Look through Heaven's eyes Look at your life. Look at your life Look at your life through Heaven's eyes'']]
*April 18, 2024 — A livestream hosted by Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry follows a small craft launched towards space, with a screen that plays the trailer once it reaches 125,000 feet. The movie's release date has been pushed back by one week, to September 20, reportedly to avoid the release conflicting with that of ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}''.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/04/transformers-one-trailer-release-date-1235889037/ ‘Transformers One’ Launches Trailer In Space, A First For A Movie Studio; Pic Going Later In September]</ref> When asked whether the film is a fresh start, a prequel to the live-action films, or its own thing, Cooley replies "yes to all of the above".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref>
*May 20, 2024 — [[Brian Tyler]] is attached as the film's composer.<ref>[https://filmmusicreporter.com/2024/05/20/brian-tyler-scoring-josh-cooleys-transformers-one/ Brian Tyler Scoring Josh Cooley’s ‘Transformers One’ - Filmmusicreporter.com]</ref>
*June 7, 2024 — Production for the film is revealed to be finished in the following month.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2024/06/07/work-on-transformers-one-animated-movie-is-set-to-wrap-up-in-july-513038 Work On Transformers: One Animated Movie Is Set To Wrap Up In July - TFW2005]</ref>
*June 10, 2024 — A work-in-progress cut of the film was screened at the {{w|Annecy International Animation Film Festival}} to a standing ovation.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235918820/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Transformers One’ Draws Laughs, Cheers in Its Annecy Debut - Hollywood Reporter]</ref>
*June 12, 2024 — Several media outlets, including representatives from TFWiki, are invited to an [[Transformers One London advance screening|advance screening]] hosted by di Bonaventura and Cooley.
*June 18, 2024 — Production designer Jason Scheier confirms animation for the film is finished.<ref>[https://twitter.com/ScheierJason/status/1803227407404638226/ Production Designer Jason Scheier's post on Twitter]</ref>
*June 27, 2024 — Sound-mixing for the film is finished, with production finally now complete around three months in advance of release.<ref>[https://www.instagram.com/p/C8vPCEUS3Bs/ @CooleyYourFaceOff - Instagram]</ref>
*July 9, 2024 — A panel for the film has been announced for [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2024 on Thursday, July 25 at 11:45 am PST at Hall H.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-comic-con-1236004636/ Paramount Animation & Hasbro Entertainment’s ‘Transformers One’ Will Be More Than Meets The Eye At San Diego Comic-Con]</ref>
*July 13, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth, Bryan Tyree Henry, and Keegan-Michael Key reveal a new clip of the main cast transforming for the first time at the Kids' Choice Awards 2024.<ref>[https://twitter.com/transformers/status/1812285185427431646/ Post from the official Transformers account on Twitter]</ref>
*July 23, 2024 — Cooley discusses how ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' influenced ''One''.<ref>[https://ew.com/transformers-one-comic-con-preview-optimus-prime-megatron-origin-story-8676886 Transformers One director reveals how infamous 1986 animated movie influenced new prequel film]</ref> A screening of the finished film was shown at a fan-event at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles and in New York City.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/anime/news/transformers-one-review-first-reactions/ Transformers One First Reactions are Raving Over "Best Transformers Film to Date"]</ref> Hemsworth talks about voicing Optimus Prime in the film and how his depiction stands out.<ref>[https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-orion-pax/ Chris Hemsworth on Becoming Optimus Prime for Transformers One (Exclusive)]</ref>
*July 24, 2024 — Several new posters are released, along with the announcement of a new trailer the following day at the SDCC panel.<ref>[https://twutter.com/transformers/status/1816111093917573615/ Second trailer announcement on Twitter]</ref>
*July 25, 2024 — Details at the SDCC panel were revealed, along with the debut of the second trailer and Bucsemi's role announced to be Starscream.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-comic-con-1236022134/ ‘Transformers One’ Ignites Comic-Con With Chris Hemsworth, Brian Tyree Henry & Keegan-Michael Key: How Two Best Friends Became Immortal Enemies]</ref> [[Eric Pearson]] was revealed to be an additional writer.<ref>[https://www.awn.com/news/paramount-drops-transformers-one-trailer-2 Paramount Drops ‘Transformers One’ Trailer #2]</ref>
*August 21, 2024 — A new clip of Orion Pax and D-16 competing in the Iacon 5000 race is released on Paramount's YouTube channel.<ref>[https://youtu.be/7o-bGIBZxdc?feature=shared/ TRANSFORMERS ONE Film Clip IACON Race Begins (2024)]</ref>
*August 23, 2024 — Evan Michael Lee is revealed to be voicing Jazz.<ref>[https://twitter.com/Evanmichaellee/status/1826960202920530306/ Evan Michael Lee on Twitter]</ref>
*August 24, 2024 — [[Jon Bailey]], [[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]], [[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]] and [[Vanessa Liguori]] are revealed to be voicing Soundwave, Shockwave, Darkwing and Airachnid respectively, with Bailey reprising his role from ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]''.<ref>[https://punto.com.ph/paramount-pictures-our-crew-rolls-deep-meet-the-voice-cast-behind-the-characters-in-transformers-one-in-cinemas-september-18/ PARAMOUNT PICTURES : OUR CREW ROLLS DEEP: MEET THE VOICE CAST BEHIND THE CHARACTERS IN “TRANSFORMERS ONE,” IN CINEMAS SEPTEMBER 18 on Punzo.com]</ref>
*September 6, 2024 — The film's credits song, '[[If I Fall]]' by [[Quavo]], is released.<ref>[https://youtu.be/M3FCIf0HFnk?si=NB1J3bT9XNPOpKCc/ If I Fall (Music from the Motion Picture Transformers One / Lyric Video)]</ref>
*September 12, 2024 — In an interview, Lorenzo di Bonaventura clarifies that ''One'' doesn't directly connect to the live-action films, and describes them as "two universes" that will be "[kept] separate". However, he notes that ''One'' will likely have an influence on future live-action projects.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> The film's review embargo is also lifted, and the film debuts with an 89% "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-critic-reviews-are-out-currently-89-on-rotten-tomatoes/48337/ Transformers One Critic Reviews are Out, Currently 89% on Rotten Tomatoes]</ref>
*September 13, 2024 — The film's main theme is released.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFnuXrOH0fs/ Brian Tyler - Transformers One Theme | Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]</ref>
*September 17, 2024 — In an interview with Lorenzo di Bonaventura and Josh Cooley, when asked again about ''One''{{'}}s relation to any of the live-action movies, di Bonaventura stated, "It was like 300 million years before the [[Transformers (film)|first Michael Bay movie]], so if that's a prequel, that's a prequel."<ref>[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-and-josh-cooley-interview/ Transformers One Producer Hopes For Sequel & Confirms G.I. Joe Crossover]</ref>
*September 18, 2024 — An early fan event screening is held, preceded by a seven-minute featurette consisting of interview segments with Hemsworth, Henry, and Key, footage of main cast recording their dialogue, and some [https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1836584462341054907 hilarious trivia]. Attendees receive one of four exclusive keychains and poster prints featuring Orion Pax, D-16, B-127, or Elita-1.<ref>https://bleedingcool.com/movies/transformers-one-4-new-posters-tickets-go-on-sale-fan-screenings/</ref>
*September 20, 2024 — The first 300 ticket holders at participating theaters receive a poster print of {{w|Shadow the Hedgehog}} to promote the upcoming release of ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog (character)|Sonic the Hedgehog 3]]''.<ref>https://kotaku.com/sonic-3-shadow-print-transformers-one-theater-showtimes-1851649010</ref>

===Changes before, during, and after production===
*Although the broad story beats of ''One'' remained more or less consistent over the course of the film's development, the first draft—written before Josh Cooley's involvement—was a silly, joke-heavy script that was very different in tone from the final product. When first brought on to direct, Cooley pushed for a more serious treatment to bring the film closer in line to the usual tone of the ''Transformers'' franchise.<ref name="gizmodo">[https://gizmodo.com/transformers-one-director-interview-josh-cooley-easter-eggs-2000489187 ''Transformers One'' Director Josh Cooley Talks Lore, Easter Eggs, and Alternate Versions] </ref>
*At one point, a bird robot based on ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Aerobolt]] would've played a role in the story.<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "In an older version of the story we explored Aerobolt being part of the story. It never made it into the final."|link=https://x.com/ScheierJason/status/1840624306465755358|name=Jason Scheier|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=9|day=30}}</ref>
*An early draft had a scene where Orion and D-16 played an arcade game together, which would've featured an 8-bit version of "The Touch". The gag was eventually dropped, although the arcade machine and a different reference to the song made it into the final film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*Another draft had D-16 as a gladiator, alluding to another part of the character's standard origin story, but ultimately this concept was cut for time.<ref>[https://www.indiewire.com/features/animation/transformers-one-star-wars-old-republic-interview-1235017651/ ‘Transformers One’ Director Talks Bringing the Franchise to Its ‘Old Republic’ Era - Indiewire]</ref>
*Originally, the film would've ended on a smash cut to the film's title, accompanied by a rendition of the classic ''Transformers'' [[theme song]]. However, Cooley decided that the scene would be overly self-referential, and instead [[Brian Tyler]] scored an original composition to close out the film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*A shot of Orion, Elita, Soundwave, and Shockwave exiting the train after crashing into Sentinel's tower is not in the final film, and only appears in promotional material.
*Concept air for Airachnid reveals she was initially planned to transform into a spider rather than a drone.
*A bot resembling [[Reflector]] was also present in concept art, but makes no appearance in the film proper. Unless he was the cameraman.

==Notes==
*As seen in the cast list above, Arcee and Chromia are voiced by Jinny Chung, the film's story / script coordinator. The Injured Racer is voiced by Dillon Bryan, Josh Cooley's assistant. Cooley himself cameos as Skywarp, the "Control Room Guys", and the PA system.
* Several international releases of the film are edited to cut away from Orion's "finger transformation" a few seconds earlier, as well as changing any mention of Bee's "knife hands" to refer to them as "sword hands" instead.
* The credits feature a dedication to former Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]], who passed away in October 2021.
*Darkwing was named by Hasbro designer [[Mark Maher]], when his boss asked him "If this was a Decepticon flyer, who would it be?"<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://www.instagram.com/stories/markclonus/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2024|month=09|day=08}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''''Transformers/One''''' (トランスフォーマー/ONE ''Toransufōmā Wan'')
*''Cantonese:'' '''''Bin Ying Gam Gong: Choh Chi Pin''''' (變形金剛：初始篇, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''French:'' '''''Transformers : Le Commencement''''' (France, "Transformers: The Beginning"), '''''Transformers : Un''''' (Canada, "Transformers: One")
*''Hungarian:'' '''''Transformers Egy''''' ("Transformers One")
*''Korean:'' '''''Transformer ONE''''' (트랜스포머 ONE ''Teuraenseupomeo ONE'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''''Biànxíng Jīngāng: Qǐyuán''''' (变形金刚：起源, "Transformers: The Origin")
*''Portuguese:'' '''''Transformers: O Início''''' ("Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Russian:'' '''''Transformery: Nachalo''''' (Трансформеры: Начало, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Spanish:'' '''''Transformers One''''' (Spain), '''''Transformers : Uno''''' (Latin America, "Transformers: One")

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:One| ]]
[[Category:Real world films]]

Transformers One (film)

2024-11-22T00:38:40Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers references */

{{Nav-one}}
{{movie|
|seriess=Transformers One
|prev=
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|title=''Transformers One''
|image=Transformers One New Theatrical Poster.jpg
|caption=The motion picture you are about to see is an adaptation of the [[Transformers: Exodus|Exodus]] story. While artistic and historical license has been taken, we believe that this film is true to the essence, values and integrity of a story that is a cornerstone of faith for [[fandom|millions of people worldwide]].
|production companies=[[Hasbro Entertainment]] [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura|di Bonaventura Pictures]] Bayhem Films [[Paramount Animation]] New Republic Pictures
|distributor=[[Paramount Pictures]]
|executive producer=[[Steven Spielberg]] [[Zev Foreman]] [[Olivier Dumont]] [[Brian Oliver]] [[B.J. Farmer]] [[Matt Quigg]] [[Greg Moordain]]
|producer=[[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] [[Tom DeSanto]] [[Don Murphy]] [[Michael Bay]] [[Mark Vahradian]] [[Aaron Dem]]
|story by=[[Andrew Barrer]] [[Gabriel Ferrari]]
|screenplay by=[[Eric Pearson]] Andrew Barrer Gabriel Ferrari
|directed by=[[Josh Cooley]]
|cinematography by=
|edited by=
|music by= [[Brian Tyler]]
|release date=[[September 20]], [[2024]]
|runtime=104 minutes
|budget= $75 million
|box office=$129 million<ref>https://the-numbers.com/movie/Transformers-One-(2024)#tab=summary</ref>
|credits=Transformers One (film)/credits
}}

'''''Transformers One''''' is an animated film released on [[September 20]], [[2024]]. It is written by [[Eric Pearson]], [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]] from a story by Barrer and Ferrari,<ref name="deadlinereveal">[https://deadline.com/2015/09/transformers-writers-room-akiva-goldsman-transformers-5-1201531918/ 'Transformers' Writers Room Wraps] on Deadline</ref> and directed by [[Josh Cooley]].<ref name="cooleyreveal">[https://deadline.com/2020/04/transformers-animated-movie-paramount-hasbro-toy-story-4-director-josh-cooley-1202921100/ Animated 'Transformers' Prequel Activated; 'Toy Story 4's Josh Cooley To Direct For Hasbro/eOne & Paramount]</ref> The movie is an origin story set on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] three billion years ago<ref name="collidercinemacon">[https://collider.com/transformers-one-animated-movie-title/ New ‘Transformers’ Animated Movie Rolls Out a New Title at CinemaCon] on Collider</ref><ref name="screenrantsandiegocomiccon">[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-timeline-setting-takes-place// When Transformers One Takes Place In The Franchise Timeline] on Screen Rant</ref> in the days before the Autobot-Decepticon war, and focuses on [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (One)|Megatron]] as they go from brothers-in-arms to enemies.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />

{{bigquote|The line between friend and enemy is not as clear as I once believed. Once it's crossed, there is no going back. Because some transformations are permanent...|[[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]]}}

==Synopsis==
Long ago, the benevolent [[Primus]] sacrificed his life essence to become the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], and created the [[Thirteen|first generation of Transformers]], the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s. Through the power of the [[Matrix of Leadership]], [[energon]] flowed freely from the planet's core, and the Primes ruled justly for a time. However, when the alien [[Quintesson]]s began a long war of invasion, the Primes were eventually slain, and the Matrix of Leadership was lost, leaving only [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] to rule the planet in their absence after the Cybertronians relocated to massive underground cities, abandoning the dangerous surface.

[[File:TFOne Orion caught.jpg|left|thumb|300px|She's exhausted from the day's work. Uh, not that it was too much! We-we quite enjoyed it!]]
Fifty cycles after the war, Cybertronian society now relies on an [[Cogless|underclass]] of manual laborers born without [[transformation cog]]s, including a caste of miners who physically extract what few veins of usable energon remain from the tunnels beneath the subterranean [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] City, while Sentinel Prime makes periodic journeys to the surface in search of the missing Matrix. One impulsive miner named [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] has been searching for information regarding the Matrix, in the hopes that finding the artifact will restore Cybertron to prosperity and allow him and his fellow miners to choose their own path in life. Unfortunately, this search for information has led him to repeatedly break into the city's data archives without authorization. His latest attempt draws the unwanted attention of two [[Guard (One)|guards]] who have caught him several times in the past already, leading to a wild (and nearly lethal) chase through the skyways, through buildings, and eventually into the ground-level public transport station. Though the guards eventually catch up to Orion, the miner's friend [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] provides a distraction and sends the guards off on a wild goose chase. On the train to work, the pair discuss Orion's latest life-endangering adventure, and Orion, knowing that his friend idolizes the strongest Prime, gifts D-16 a rare first-edition decal of [[The Fallen|Megatronus Prime]]'s helmet he'd found.

[[File:TFOne Mine Explosion.jpg|right|thumb|300px|We're trying to get the funny man out of the well!]]
In the mines, D-16 and Orion work under the supervision of their go-getting captain [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]], using [[jet pack]]s and deployable support poles to keep Cybertron's shifting geology stable long enough for them to extract raw energon. However, [[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]] accidentally hits a vein of unstable energon, and the ensuing explosions trap [[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] under a rockfall. Orion and D-16 defy protocol and use a jet pack to save their coworker, but the chaos ends up damaging and destroying a lot of mine equipment. One of the mine's guards, [[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]], blames Elita for the disaster, and informs her she's been demoted to waste management duty, despite Orion sticking up for her and taking the blame.

That evening, Sentinel Prime returns to Iacon to announce that he still has not found the Matrix; to take the blow off this bad news, Sentinel declares that the prestigious [[Iacon 5000]] race will be held the next day. Orion tries to persuade D-16 to join him in the race, hoping that they can prove to the rest of Cybertron that mining bots deserve respect, but D-16 has no interest in the idea. On the day of the race, Orion discreetly leads D-16 to the maintenance area inside the giant starting signal above the race's starting line; while D-16 is initially excited to watch from a perfect vantage point, Orion reveals his true intention as he straps jet packs to the two just as the race begins and they're dropped into the thick of a throng of racing robots. Using their jet packs and some quick thinking to compensate for their inability to transform, the two dodge the numerous traps and obstacles and briefly manage to take the lead, sending bots across the city into a frenzy, especially their fellow cogless miners. The pair are just about to limp across the finish line and take first place, but end up being run down by [[Chromia (One)|Chromia]], who snags victory for herself. The pair figure they can still be proud of second place... until several dozen other racers whip by them in vehicle mode.

[[File:TFOne Sentinel visits.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I seek to build an empire, and your only goal is to amuse yourselves by tearing it down. Have I taught you nothing?]]
In Iacon's medical center, where many, many racers have ultimately ended up, Sentinel Prime meets with Orion and D-16; the pair are immediately certain they are in ''massive'' trouble, especially when they're scanned by Sentinel's creepy aide [[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] before his arrival, but it turns out it's quite the opposite. Sentinel ''loved'' their little stunt, and tells them that the miners' productivity after that showing was already at 150%. Sentinel offers them a chance to tour the mines and help inspire their comrades to work harder, with promises of some pampering along the way, and the pair quickly agree. However, Darkwing arrives before Airachnid can escort them to Sentinel's private quarters; infuriated that he nearly lost the race to the pair after they humiliated him, he drags them to the planet's fiftieth sub-level (ten levels below what they ''thought'' was the lowest level of the planet) and locks them in a trash incineration station.

The two bots soon meet the eccentric and exceptionally talkative [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]], who has been trapped at the job of "look at garbage and take anything of value out before it's burned" for years, with only garbage statues for "company". When one of B's pals "[[Steve (One)|Steve]]" utters some electronic gibberish, Orion accidentally beheads the "bot", but discovers within the wreckage an old beacon from the Quintesson war, still broadcasting a set of coordinates located somewhere on the planet's surface. Orion, B-127, and D-16 decide to investigate, escaping the only way they can: by climbing up the dump chute. Ew. The trio stow away aboard an automated surface-bound garbage train but coincidentally encounter Elita-1, who now works the refuse line. She handily clobbers the three but ends up locked in the train with them as it departs. She heads for the front, intending to report them to security, a mad dash that gets all the harder as the train starts moving vertically towards its destination. She manages to pop a hatch and make it out of the train, and the trio gives chase, but all four are stopped cold as they're enveloped in light and they find themselves traveling along Cybertron's surface.

The four are stunned by the planet's natural beauty, only to become horrified as said natural beauty starts violently heaving upwards behind them, tearing up the self-building rail and scattering train cars. They run for it but are thrown off, waking in just enough time to completely miss another train, the rail un-building behind it. Elita is furious, but agrees to join Orion's search for the Matrix, on the conditions that 1) she's in command, 2) she holds the map, and 3) after they find the Matrix and bring it back, the other three turn themselves in for their idiotic plan and sing her praises to the authorities. Orion very quickly agrees, and the four head off, confused by the weird not-metal life growing on the surface. They spy a group of robotic quadrupedal lifeforms, which suddenly snap to attention and run for it as the ground begins to tremble. It's soon apparent the cause of their panic: a massive Quintesson spaceship! As the ship scans for any lifeforms (obliterating one of the Cybertronian fauna with a massive cannon blast when it ends up in the tracking beams), the four barely evade detection and the ship moves on.

[[File:TransformersOne-AlphaTrionTransformationCogs.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Take the staff in your hand, Moses. With it, you shall do My wonders.]]
Soon they find themselves at the end of the map's trail, a [[Mouth of Unicron|hidden and extremely creepy cave]]. Inside they find a scene of absolute horror: the spot where the ancient Primes made their final stand against the Quintessons, their bodies lying broken and covered in overgrowth. Although the Matrix is nowhere to be found, Orion discovers that [[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]'s spark still pulses and uses an [[energon cube]] provided by B to revive him. The four attempt to bring Trion up to speed on recent events, but their mention of "Sentinel Prime" causes Trion to reveal the terrible truth: Sentinel is an imposter, a traitorous aide who led the Primes into a Quintesson ambush in exchange for "ruling" Cybertron under the invaders' command. However, when Sentinel tried to claim the Matrix after prying it from [[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]]'s corpse, the artifact judged him unworthy and disappeared. To appease his new masters, Sentinel has deliberately stolen transformation cogs from newborn Transformers to keep them producing energon in the mines; at Trion's urging, the four emerge from the cave to witness Sentinel pledging servitude to the [[Quintesson High Commander]] and learn the city's garbage trains are actually transporting Cybertron's dwindling energon supplies to Quintesson ships, leaving barely enough for the people of Cybertron. These revelations leave the bots horrified, but D-16 takes it the worst of all, having also looked up to Sentinel for years. Alpha Trion decides to give the team hope by gifting them the transformation cogs from four of the fallen Primes, as well as a recording of Sentinel's treachery. However, Airachnid spotted the four when they were watching Sentinel's meeting with the Quintessons, and a squad of Sentinel's [[Tracker]]s arrive. Despite his disrepair, Alpha Trion uses his leonine alternate mode to wipe out the squad, allowing Orion and the others to escape, but is quickly incapacitated by Airachnid.

The four bots have a very rocky time learning to transform in the middle of fleeing a squad of Trackers, tumbling downhill with only ''parts'' of them shifting into their new vehicle modes, but desperation forces them to adapt ''very'' quickly. Each one finds new abilities and an aptitude for combat, and soon they're able to destroy their pursuers. Overjoyed at their victory, they make the plan to use the incriminating information Trion gave them by returning to Iacon and exposing Sentinel as a traitor. In their excitement, they fail to notice a Tracker about to shoot them from behind until D-16 uses his new tank mode to kill him first... and then starts laughing at what he just did. D-16 snatches the evidence and takes the lead, his ever-growing intensity and openly stated desire to kill Sentinel leaving Orion more and more unnerved.

Back in Iacon, Alpha Trion is brought before Sentinel, who mocks the "old-timer" and gloats about his station, complaining to Airachnid about the Primes' stuffiness and boring speeches. Trion's word of warning that Sentinel's time will soon be over only annoys the false Prime further, and in a fit of rage he kills the ancient Prime before sending Airachnid back to the surface to hunt down the wayward miners.

[[File:TFoneStarscreamSoundwaveShockwaveInterrogation.jpg|left|thumb|300px|You're playing with the big boys now!]]
Along the path to Iacon, a series of shots ring out, and each bot slips into stasis... Orion and the others are brought back online, bound (and gagged in B's case) as prisoners of the former members of Cybertron's [[High Guard]], who have been fighting a guerrilla war against the Quintessons ever since the fall of the Primes, led by [[Starscream (One)|Starscream]]. D-16 is not impressed, and giving into his growing rage, challenges Starscream's authority, and the two quickly end up in a brawl. While Starscream plays it tough even as D-16 crushes his neck and damages his speech module, his attitude soon changes as D-16 manifests a massive cannon on his arm, aimed directly at Starscream's head. The Guard quickly rallies behind their new leader, ready to take the fight to Sentinel... but Airachnid's forces arrive and ambush them.

[[File:TFOne Airachnid attacks.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Not much of a snake-charmer, are you?]]
Orion, having been buried in the battle, awakens when Elita drags him from the rubble to find that D-16, B-127, and much of the Guard have been taken prisoner, and the data crystal containing the evidence of Sentinel's betrayal has been shattered. Orion despairs, believing their quest to be hopeless now, but Elita won't have it. Though she's still not above taking some digs at Orion, she points out that it is the bot's endless ''optimism'' that makes him a true leader, one that can make bots do amazing (and occasionally amazingly ''stupid'') things. Orion takes the praise (and insults) and decides it's time to rally, and the two quickly formulate a plan; the Guard may be strong, but the last battle proved they aren't enough on their own, they need a true army... and Orion knows exactly where to get one. After Elita quickly shuts down any dissent from the remaining Guard (thanks to a very swift punch to [[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave's]] eye), Orion primes the warriors for the coming battle, with a cry of "''[[Roll out|Transform and ROLL OUT]]!''"

The captives have been brought to Sentinel's tower, where the puppet leader gloats over them, mocking Starscream's scrambled voice and sneering at D-16. But the miner does not cower or balk at all, declaring that he is not afraid of Sentinel, as he has nothing left to lose. Noticing the worn Megatronus decal, Sentinel reveals that he took Megatronus's transformation cog when he killed him, ripping the decal from the miner's arm before slapping it back onto his chest... and then, knocking the miner on his back, using a mining tool to crudely ''carve'' the Prime's face into D-16's chest.

Orion uses his new form to rocket-glide into the depths of Iacon City, entering the miners' quarters (and bodily hurling Darkwing aside in the process). Orion reveals the truth to the miners and rallies them to join forces with the High Guard and rebel against Sentinel's regime. Meanwhile, Elita, Shockwave, and [[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] have commandeered a returning "garbage" train, transporting the Guard into the city in a sneak attack. But the sudden appearance of hundreds of Trackers makes things look very bad for the plan... until Orion and the miners leap into the fray and cut a swath through the incoming horde, armed with their jet packs and mining tools. Airachnid attempts to kill Orion, slamming him into the train engine, and revealing the ''incredibly horrifying'' array of optics hidden in the back of her head. But her multi-scanning abilities give Orion a sudden idea as the train plows towards Sentinel's tower.

[[File:TFOneSentinelvsD16.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I will not be dictated to. I will not be threatened.]]
Sentinel, angered as D-16 once again attempts to rise up, is just about to blow the miner's head off when the train slams into his tower. Soundwave frees the prisoners and the fight spills across the city. Sentinel transforms into combat mode, but D-16 will not be deterred, the two launch into battle. Elita leaps into action, tackling Airachnid and attempting to take her prisoner (with only ''some'' gratuitously satisfying pummeling along the way). She drags the semi-conscious bot to one of Iacon's broadcast stations, and B makes a ''very'' over-enthusiastic entrance. Airachnid's memory banks are quickly scanned, and her memories of Sentinel's most recent meeting with the Quintessons are broadcast throughout the city, leading the populace to also join the fight.

Sentinel fares badly in his fight with D-16, and seeing his cowering before the Quintessons on dozens of screens, his empire in ruins, tries to flee, and when that fails, begs D-16 to spare him, claiming they can co-rule Cybertron. D-16 insists that Sentinel must die for his crimes, but Orion tries to convince his friend that they can be better than their enemies. D-16 violently disagrees, knocking his friend aside and readying the kill shot... only for Orion to leap in the path, the cannon blast tearing through his torso and sending him tumbling over the edge. D-16 grabs Orion's one good arm, horrified... ''that Orion would stop him from killing Sentinel''. With this betrayal, he vows he is ''done'' saving Orion from his mistakes and lets his dying friend plummet into Cybertron's depths. As Orion falls, D-16, insistent that there will be no more Primes, kills Sentinel by bisecting him with his hands. He then seizes Megatronus' cog from Sentinel's chest, replacing the one gifted to him by Trion, which transforms him into an even ''more'' battle-ready form. Declaring himself "Megatron", he commands the High Guard to destroy everything Sentinel built... in other words, what's left of the city.

[[File:One-Megs-Prime-face-to-face.jpg|thumb|300px|Goodbye... brother.]]
Meanwhile, the mortally wounded Orion falls through the planetary strata, which slides and shifts out of his way, until he finally reaches Cybertron's core. There, he encounters the spirits of the Primes as Trion announce that Primus has deemed him worthy for the future of Cybertron and to carry the Matrix of Leadership, reformatting Orion and restoring his spark to declare him the newest of the Primes: "Optimus Prime", before being sent rocketing back to the surface in a blaze of blue light.

Elita and B try and fail to stop Megatron's rampage, their former friend ready to kill them too, but Optimus smashes onto the scene. Megatron is incensed at this new betrayal both by his former friend ''and'' the Matrix itself, and launches himself at Optimus. During their fight, Optimus manifests an energy battle axe to fight against Megatron along with Starscream, Soundwave, and Shockwave before using it to destroy Megatron's new cannon, ultimately winning their fight. Unwilling to kill his oldest friend, Optimus reluctantly banishes Megatron and his new allies to the surface. Megatron seethes but decides that now is not the time, and takes his new army to the surface.

With the return of the Matrix of Leadership, Cybertron is restored to life: energon flows once again from the planet's core to the surface, and ''all'' of the cogless bots receive transformation cogs, becoming fully autonomous "[[Autobot]]s" who vow to defend Cybertron from any future Quintesson incursions. However, the Quintessons are not the only looming threat—though banished from Iacon, Megatron and his followers rechristen themselves the "[[Decepticon]]s" and swear revenge.
{{-}}

==Cast==
{{featuredcharacters
|h1=Miners
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax / Optimus Prime]] ([[Chris Hemsworth]])
*[[Megatron (One)|D-16 / Megatron]] ([[Brian Tyree Henry]])
*[[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]] ([[Scarlett Johansson]])
*[[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]] ([[Keegan-Michael Key]])
*[[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] ([[Evan Michael Lee]])
*[[Arcee (One)|Arcee]] ([[Jinny Chung]])
*[[Bluestreak (One)|Bluestreak]]
*[[Brawn (One)|Brawn]]
*[[Firestar (One)|Firestar]]<ref group=note name="uncredited">Denotes a character, or unidentified members of a group, who speaks, but has no credited voice actor. The performance was likely done by an ADR voice cast member.</ref>
*[[Hound (One)|Hound]]
*[[Huffer (One)|Huffer]]
*[[Ironhide (One)|Ironhide]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Mirage (One)|Mirage]]
*[[Moonracer (One)|Moonracer]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Prowl (One)|Prowl]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Ratchet (One)|Ratchet]]
*[[Red Alert (One)|Red Alert]]
*[[Sideswipe (One)|Sideswipe]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Smokescreen (One)|Smokescreen]]
*[[Sunstreaker (One)|Sunstreaker]]
*[[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Windcharger (One)|Windcharger]]

|h2=[[High Guard]]
|c2=
*[[Starscream (One)|Starscream]] ([[Steve Buscemi]])
*[[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] ([[Jon Bailey]])
*[[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave]] ([[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]])
*[[Skywarp (One)|Skywarp]] (Josh Cooley)
*[[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]]
*[[Dirge (One)|Dirge]]
*[[Ramjet (One)|Ramjet]]
*[[Thrust (One)|Thrust]]
*[[Slipstream (One)|Slipstream]]
*[[Redwing (One)|Redwing]]

|h3=[[Thirteen#One film|Primes]]
|c3=
*[[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]] ([[Laurence Fishburne]])
*[[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]] ([[James Remar]])
*[[The Fallen#One film|Megatronus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime#One film|Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime#One film|Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo#One film|Liege Maximo]]
*[[Micronus Prime#One film|Micronus Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime#One film|Nexus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Onyx Prime#One film|Onyx Prime]]
*[[Prima#One film|Prima Prime]]
*[[Quintus Prime#One film|Quintus Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime#One film|Solus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Vector Prime#One film|Vector Prime]]

|c4=
*[[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] ([[Jon Hamm]])
*[[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] ([[Vanessa Liguori]])
*[[Quintesson High Commander]]
*[[Quintesson Soldier]]s
*[[Primus]]
*[[Tracker]]s<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Guard (One)|Guards]] ([[Steve Blum]], Jason Konopisos-Alvarez)
*[[Announcer Bot]] (Steve Blum)
*[[Control Room Guys]] (Josh Cooley)

'''Racers'''
*[[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]] ([[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]])
*[[Chromia (One)|Chromia]] (Jinny Chung)
*[[Injured Racer]] ([[Dillon Bryan]])

|nonumbering=true
}}
<references group=note/>

==Quotes==
"Let me guess. Chased out of the archive?" 
"Yeah. I had to jump out of a window this time. Almost died. It was wild." 
"And digging through ancient data is worth dying for?" 
"Yes, it is." 
"Oh, I need a new best friend..."
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' meet up before their shift.

"Are you ''crazy?!''" 
"Sure feels like it!"
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' summing up their initial relationship.

"Every day. Every ''single day'' of my life. Has been... a lie! You just '''had''' to do it, didn't you?" 
"Me? What did I do?" 
"You just had to go to the surface, had to enter the Iacon 5000, you just '''HAD''' to break protocol!" 
"Who cares about protocol?" 
"'''I do'''! I care! Because nothing bad happens when you ''stay on protocol!''" 
"Sentinel Prime has been forcing us to work in the mines until our gears strip. And all the while he's been giving our Energon away to our greatest enemies!" 
"Uh, and what do you think he's gonna do to us when he finds out that we know?!" 
"I'm not ''thinking'' about what he's going to do, I'm thinking about what ''we're'' going to do." 
"That's the whole thing! You're never thinking about anything else, just yourself. Fantastic! Another Orion Pax 'master plan'! I can't wait to hear this!" 
"Don't you want to stop him?" 
"NO, '''I WANT TO KILL HIM!''' I wanna put Sentinel in chains and march him through the mines so everyone can see him for the '''false Prime''' that he is! I want him to suffer, and then to ''die'' in ''darkness.'' But we all know it doesn't matter what I want, ''right'', Pax? The fact is, we're just cogless bots. Right? We had limited options, and now... now we have ''none''."
:—The first cracks show in '''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''''s friendship.

"What defines a Transformer is not the cog in his chest, but the spark in that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. My fellow Primes had that spark. And I see their strength in you. Take their cogs and access your full potential. Prima. Onyx. Alchemist. Micronus. Warriors of noble spirit, loyalty, strength. Their uniqueness enhanced by these. They were one. ''You'' are one. '''ALL''' are one!" 
"Wait. We have... You-- You gave us..." 
"The ability to change your world. How you choose to use that power is up to you."
:—'''Alpha Trion''' inaugurates '''Orion Pax''' and our heroes with the tried and true phrase.

'''Starscream''': Now, are you spies, or incompetent lackeys? 
'''Orion Pax''': We're not spies. 
'''Elita-1''': But he is incompetent.
:—Elita-1 on her boss-to-be

"Uh... why is he gagged?" 
"He wouldn't stop talking." 
"Even when he was unconscious?" 
"''ESPECIALLY'' WHEN HE WAS UNCONSCIOUS!"
:—'''Elita-1''' asks '''Shockwave''' about B-127's restraints.

"Hey! What are you doing?" 
"I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not cowering in some busted ship, playing king of the throne. I'm not pretending that I'm making a difference by throwing one punch and running away to hide. I found out that Sentinel is rotten today, and I'm going to make him pay for it! TODAY!" 
"You think you can insult me and just walk away? No one leaves unless I say so." 
"Is that right? Well, how can you say so... with my head in your teeth?"
:—'''Starscream''' and '''D-16''', right before he beats the living scrap out of him.

"Bear witness! ''This'' is the '''last''' time I show mercy! Decide right now! You can stay here in hiding, bowing before your pathetic leader, or follow me as we march on Iacon and I take down Sentinel '''ONCE AND FOR ALL!'''"
:—'''D-16''', as he usurps the High Guard's leadership from Starscream.

"Listen to me, I really want you to hear this. Are you listening?" 
[Orion looks up at Elita] 
"I'm better than you." 
"Yeah, okay, I'm hearing you." 
"I'm better than you in every way, ''except'' you have hope. You always have. You went back into the mine to rescue Jazz, you snuck up to the surface to find the Matrix of Leadership!" 
"Oh, yeah, and how'd that work out?" 
"My point is that your instincts tell you to break protocol for a ''reason''. This blind optimism that you have is why you make such bold and courageous choices. That are also extremely stupid." 
"First time giving a pep talk?" 
"You're inspiring. You can envision a better future that no one else can see. If you ever want to see B and D-16 again, that, ''that'' is the Orion Pax that we need right now. Listen to me. We can do this."
:—'''Elita-1''' attempts to give '''Orion Pax''' a pep-talk. ''Attempts'' to.

'''Soundwave''': "What is our first move?" 
'''Orion Pax''': ''(quietly and intensely)'' "We roll out." 
'''Skywarp''': "...what?!" 
'''Elita-1''': ''(quietly)'' "Louder!" 
'''Orion Pax''': "TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT!"
:—Orion realizes that dramatic one-liners aren't that dramatic if no one can hear them.

'''Jazz''': "Is that... Orion?" 
'''Orion Pax''': "Jazz." 
'''Jazz''': "Is it really you?" 
'''Orion''': "Yeah, I know I, uh, look a little... different." 
'''Jazz''': "Little? There's nothing 'little' about you." 
'''Ironhide''': "Uh- How is this possible?" 
'''Moonracer''': "Sentinel told us you died from your race injuries!" 
'''Orion''': "Sentinel is a '''liar'''." 
'''Arcee''': "Huh?" 
'''Ironhide''': "What?" 
'''Orion''': "Look, I know how this will sound coming from me. I was never the most... ''focused'' miner, but as you can see, everything is different now. I went to the surface. And I learned the truth. My friends, we were ''all'' born with transformation cogs. And then Sentinel, ''he stole them from us.'' '''He took away our ability to make our own decisions.''' '''''He stole our freedom.''''' But now, I'm offering you your first '''real choice'''. You can work a twenty-third shift and mine yourself to death, or fight back against Sentinel with me. Right now." 
'''Sideswipe''': "How are we supposed to do that?" 
'''Arcee''': "We can't fight. We don't have cogs." 
'''Orion''': "What defines a Transformer is not the cog in its chest, but the spark that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. And that spark, Sentinel can ''never'' take from us." 
'''Jazz''': "There's not enough of us. We need an army." 
'''Orion''': "And we have one. Elita is bringing troops. We are not alone in this. If we want to be in control of our own destiny, we will have to fight for it. Now is the time for us to stand up. For ourselves. Stand up for this injustice! I promise you, this fight will be worth it. Follow me. Nothing can stop us when we stand together! Together as '''one!'''"
:—And with the miners chanting his name, Orion Pax delivers his first heroic speech.

''(Airachnid opens the back of her head to reveal'' dozens ''of eyes.)'' 
"You can't win, miner! ''I see '''everything!'''''" 
"That's right, you do... Except the tower we're about to crash into."
:—'''Airachnid''' gets creepy and '''Orion Pax''' gets an idea.

"You pathetic little twits! Did you really think that you could knock down everything I've built?!" 
"It's over, Sentinel! You can't escape the truth!" 
"What truth? That I plucked the cogs from your newborn chests? Forced you to mine so that I could pay off the Quintessons and live like a king? None of that matters! Because the truth... Is. ''WHAT. I. '''MAKE IT!'''''"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' teaches '''Orion Pax''' that he won't go down without a fight.

"What's wrong, D-16? Rise up!"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' mockingly gives D-16 his future slogan.

"I'm ''done'' saving you."
:—'''D-16''' lets his ''former'' friend fall.

"The Age of Primes has ended! '''NO MORE FALSE PROPHETS'''! Follow me, and you will ''never again'' be ''deceived!'' '''RISE UP!''' ''I'' will lead us all into the future! ''I...'' '''AM...''' '''''MEGATRON!'''''"
:—With the death of Sentinel Prime, '''D-16''' renames himself as '''Megatron'''

"''Orion Pax.'' Your noble sacrifice for the greater good has proven you worthy in the eyes of Primus. He entrusts in you the future of Cybertron, and... the Matrix of Leadership! '''Arise...''' '''''Optimus Prime.'''''"
:—Speaking for Primus, '''Alpha Trion''' and the Primes rebuild Orion Pax.

"We could have built the future ''together!"'' 
"I'll build it myself. After I tear down everyone '''''IN MY WAY!'''''"
:-'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' set the stage for eons of conflict to come.

"We were given the power to change our world, and you chose to destroy it. Just like Sentinel. You have betrayed Cybertron and its citizens, and you betrayed... ''me.'' Go. Take the High Guard, and leave. You are banished from Iacon. It didn't have to end this way." 
"This isn't over... ''Prime.''"
:—'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' share one final exchange.

"This is the greatest day of my life... I get to work for the ''government''!"
:—'''B-127''' knows a good benefits package when he sees one.

"And now we stand here together as one, proving we all have the power to transform; to become who we were destined to be; to right wrongs; to make our world better. Because here, freedom and autonomy are the right of all sentient beings. Here, all are truly ''Autobots''. This message is a warning to all Quintessons: If you dare return to Cybertron, the Autobots will be waiting. ''I'' will be waiting. I... am ''Optimus Prime''."
:—'''Optimus Prime''' gives his first dramatic ending monologue...

"Sentinel, the betrayer, is dead. But his death has given life to a new enemy...a stronger enemy... a ''personal'' enemy. We will ''not'' be blinded by his deception! We are the ones who are... '''DECEPTICONS! ''RISE UP!'''''"
:—...and '''Megatron''' gives the coming darkness its new name.

==Continuity notes==
The movie that would ultimately become ''Transformers One'' entered preliminary development in early 2015, when the project was first pitched as part of a writer's room that would lay out a number of sequels, prequels, and spinoff films that would turn the ongoing [[live-action film series|slate of live-action movies]] into a proper "cinematic universe", an attempt to cash in on the then-meteoric hype of the {{w|Marvel Cinematic Universe}}. Like pretty much all the other "cinematic universes" pitched at around this time, this ambitious vision was not to be: following the box-office bomb that was ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight]]'', most of these projects were shelved, while others were heavily reworked—perhaps most infamously, ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'' was recut into a film that contradicted ''The Last Knight'' and its depictions of Bumblebee fighting in [[World War II]], shifting the film and [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|its sequel]] into a more ambiguous "soft reboot" that only loosely connect to the five Bay films.

It appears that a similar conceptual drift occurred over the course of ''Transformers One'''s production. When the film entered full production in mid-2020, ''One'' was said to be "separate and apart" from the ongoing live-action films, though at the time just ''how'' distinct the film would be from its predecessors remained a mystery.<ref name="cooleyreveal" /> When later asked if the film was a prequel to the live-action films, a reboot, or its own universe, director Josh Cooley answered "yes" to all of the above.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref> While a few details and visual nods—such as Bumblebee's original name of "B-127", the function of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in which it dissolves into dust if it deems someone unworthy to wield it and the incorporation of a closing monologue delivered by Optimus—referenced the live-action films, the film otherwise draws heavily upon the mythology first laid down in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity family]] and has gone on to inform just about every major ''Transformers'' universe afterwards, particularly in its depiction of Orion Pax and D-16 as former allies fighting against a corrupt Cybertronian government.

As the film's release date drew closer, multiple comments from the film's creatives indicated that the filmmakers viewed the movie as something entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films. In July, Josh Cooley stated that the film was set in a "new Transformers continuity"<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "Hey little nerd in my profile picture, what if I told you someday you'll create a new Transformers continuity, that begins earlier than anything you've seen on the Transformers lore timeline, with the greatest crew and cast ever assembled?"|link= https://x.com/CooleyUrFaceOff/status/1817235351095894510?t=Oju3b9v53cYIHlH4MLEsXg |name=Josh Cooley|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=7|day=27}}</ref>; in another interview from a week before release, di Bonaventura ultimately admitted that ''One'' didn't fit into the chronology of the live-action films, and described ''One'' and the live-action films as "two universes" that would be "[kept] separate".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> These statements were ultimately borne out by the movie itself, which featured multiple plot points that are pretty much irreconcilable with the live-action films—early on, the film establishes that [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] is long dead, negating his appearance in ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; additionally, the movie ends with the newly christened Megatron killing Sentinel Prime, leaving no wiggle room for the events of ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]'' to occur. As a result, the wiki has opted to treat ''One'' and any potential sequels as a new [[continuity family]] entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films.

==Transformers references==
* As with pretty much every major ''Transformers'' project since 2010, ''Transformers One'' is the latest interpretation of the modernized ''Transformers'' backstory that originated with [[Binder of Revelation|Hasbro's internal design documents]] and was first laid down in ''[[Transformers: Exodus]]''—the story of [[Primus]], the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]], and the origins of Optimus Prime and Megatron as former friends who fought against inequality on pre-war Cybertron until Megatron's extremism drove them apart. Notably, this version of the story portrays both Orion and Megatron as [[energon]] miners on the bottom of Cybertron's caste system—most other interpretations have instead depicted Orion as a somewhat higher-ranking data clerk. While other tellings of the story have Orion advocating for non-violent social change, this take on the origin ends with Orion Pax working alongside the future Decepticons to directly overthrow the reigning Prime, evoking [[IDW Publishing|IDW]]'s ''[[The Transformers: Autocracy|Autocracy]]'' miniseries.
* Many contemporary works of pre-war ''Transformers'' fiction have established that pre-war Cybertronians organized themselves under a job-based [[Functionism|caste system]], with miners and other manual laborers occupying the lowest ranks of Transformer society. ''One'' features a very simplified version of this hierarchy, where Cybertronians without transformation cogs are an oppressed underclass while other Transformers receive additional rights and job opportunities.
* With the exception of D-16—whose origins as a low-ranking miner date back to IDW's ''[[The Transformers: Megatron Origin|Megatron Origin]]''—all of the other miners shown in the film go on to join the Autobots, while the forerunners of the Decepticons are depicted as ex-members of the elite [[High Guard]]. This specific class divide dates back to the ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'' episode "[[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4]]" and, to a lesser extent, "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]", which explained the war between the Autobots and Decepticons as an entrenched conflict between civilian laborers and military robots.
* All the character designs are far closer to their Generation 1 designs (both the cartoon and the original toys) than the previous films. Characters also earn their iconic design traits in pivotal scenes, such as Optimus Prime's [[Energon-axe]] and [[mouthplate]], or Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. In the final scene, many miners gain details to match their Generation 1-selves even closer after they receive their cogs; in particular, Arcee gains her pink visor from ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''. Starscream, Soundwave, and Megatron's newly applied insignias in the post-credits scene are also in the same place as their original counterparts, with Starscream's even being upside-down!
* Optimus Prime's original identity of "Orion Pax" is a name taken from the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". Notably, the cartoon's version of Orion Pax was also a manual laborer, although the film does seemingly pay homage to Orion Pax's other famous job by having him sneak into the Cybertronian Archives at the very beginning of the film. D-16 takes [[Dion (G1)|Dion]]'s place as his best friend and co-worker.
* The 'bot who will one day be known as "Megatron" initially goes by the name "D-16", a moniker lifted from ''Exodus'' and itself based on the [[TakaraTomy]] ID number of the [[Megatron (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original Megatron toy]]. D-16's original body—with a black, dome-shaped helmet and yellow eyes—references Megatron's [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel Comics appearance]], which in turn was based on concept art for an unproduced prototype version of the original Takara Micro Change figure. Much like Orion Pax, his modern gladiator job is paid homage in his fight with Starscream.
* B-127 is heavily based on his [[Bumblebee (Movie)|live-action film series counterpart]]: his helmet design and blasters bear a resemblance to his appearance in those films; additionally, his overly-talkative nature is a meta-gag about his "future" self being best known for not being able to speak. The name "B-127" derives from the [[Bumblebee (film)|''Bumblebee'' movie]], where, much like this film, he did not receive the name "Bumblebee" on Cybertron. B-127's battle mask resembles his [[Bumblebee (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart's]] [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original toy]]; towards the end of the film, he fights with a pair of "knife hands" seemingly based on ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]'' Bumblebee's melee weapons.
* In general, Elita-1 doesn't draw upon as many specific references as her co-stars, although her purplish-pink color scheme and motorcycle [[alternate mode]] may be a reference to her [[Elita-One (Movie)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' design]]. Notably, of the four main protagonists, Elita's the only one who ''doesn't'' have an alternate alias—especially odd given that her [[Elita One (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] originally went by "Ariel" in the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". (This exclusion is perhaps less odd when one considers that subsequent to 1985, [[Disney]] secured a near-stranglehold on toys named "{{w|Ariel (The Little Mermaid)|Ariel}}".)
* Sentinel Prime is based on [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]], the former leader of Cybertron in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity]]. Like that version of the character, this take on Sentinel Prime is explicitly a "false" Prime who never carried the Matrix of Leadership, and a puppet ruler who was appointed to the position by the Quintessons. Design-wise, this take on Sentinel draws from his "Aligned" counterpart, his [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|''Dark of the Moon'' appearance]], and has details from his [[Sentinel Prime (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]] and the thematically similar character, [[Nominus Prime]]. Sentinel's battle mode is inspired by his [[Apex Armor (G1)|Apex Armor]] from the ''Megatron Origin'' comic. He also has his [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]]'s glorious chin, as well as carrying on his 'arrogant jerkwad' personality rather than the more stoic attitude of other Sentinels. His double-bladed weapon takes specific inspiration from DOTM Sentinel's [[Primax Blade]], now with the additional ability to retract one or both of its blades when required.
* Airachnid is derived from the ''Prime'' [[Airachnid (Prime)|character of the same name]]—a notable inclusion given the primarily G1-based main cast—sharing a similar design, alternate mode as a helicopter, and antagonistic personality. Role-wise, however, she draws from her [[Airachnid (G1)|IDW 2005 counterpart]] being a subordinate of the [[Starscream_(G1)/2005_IDW_continuity|shady sovereign ruler of Cybertron]].
* Like Sentinel Prime, the Quintessons are primarily based on their depiction in the "Aligned" lorebook [[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|''The Covenant of Primus'']], which depicted them as shadowy manipulators who ruled Cybertron and exploited its natural resources through a proxy government; notably, the Quintessons in the ''Covenant'' helped maintain their hold on Transformer civilization by withholding the power to transform from the general populace. In a notable deviation from traditional ''Transformers'' lore, the bodies and starships of the film's Quintessons appear to be organic in nature.
** It is ambiguous to what the origin of the Quintessons actually is. In most modern media, the Quintessons are the renegade creations of Quintus Prime (such as in ''[[Transformers: EarthSpark]]''). While they do share some similarities, such as part of their names, multiple appendages, and their coloration, nothing is ever stated that Quintus Prime created them. They aren't the creators of the Cybertronian race like in media before Primus was created. It is most likely that the Quintessons are simply an alien race unrelated to the Cybertronians.
* Primus' design seen in the hologram Orion plays is largely based on the [[IP infringement|"third party"]] 01 Studio Seed figure, itself inspired by the oft-referenced [[:File:UltimateGuidePrimus.jpg|original character model]] for his planet-body from [[DK Publishing|DK]]'s [[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|''The Ultimate Guide'']]. His head and chest are closer to his ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' appearance, also pulling a simplified version of [[Primus#Cybertron|that toy]]'s transformation scheme. Primus' willing sacrifice of his locomotion and birthing of the Thirteen pulls from his appearance in the eponymous ''Covenant of Primus''.
* The Thirteen are similarly based on their "Aligned"' incarnations for their backstory and designs. Nexus, Megatronus, Solus, and Alchemist Prime also draw from their ''[[:File:NexusPrimeflankedbyotherPrimes.jpg|Timelines]]'', ''[[:File:Megatronus.jpeg|Titans Return]]'', ''[[:File:SolusPrime-PowerofthePrimes.jpg|Power of the Primes]]'', and ''[[:File:TheCitizen IaconusCitizens.jpg|Cyberverse]]'' designs, respectively, while Vector Prime is based squarely on his original ''Cybertron'' design.
* Megatronus is also inspired by his ''Revenge of the Fallen'' design, including his face being based on the Decepticon symbol (or vice versa in-universe), although it is far more obvious in this movie, coincidentally evoking [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]]. Megatronus' face becoming the in-universe inspiration for the Decepticon symbol reflects the real life story of [[Soundwave (G1)|Generation 1 Soundwave]]'s face inspiring the iconic symbol.
* Alpha Trion's abilities to recreate and store memories as information calls back to the archival role of his [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]. His alternate mode being a leonine beast with a unicorn-esque horn is a direct homage to his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]], itself based on his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Toys|cancelled BotCon toy]].
* The mysterious [[Thirteenth Prime]] is replaced with Zeta Prime, who also takes [[Prima]]'s role as leader and Matrix-bearer, though Prima himself is still present. Zeta's design is also based on "Aligned" Sentinel Zeta Prime, as he appears in the ''War for Cybertron'' video game.
* The Thirteen are not actually referred to as the "Thirteen", but rather the Primes or the "Council of Elders", a term that originated in ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''. This is likely because it would contradict Sentinel's narrative painting himself as a fourteenth Prime. Notably, none of the archives or displays of the Thirteen include Sentinel.
* The cameo miners mostly draw from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)/cast#Season 1|1984 Autobot cast of the original cartoon]], along with the [[Female Autobots]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], and recolors such as [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]. The background High Guard characters, meanwhile, are based on the endless Starscream recolors that have appeared throughout ''Transformers'', commonly known as the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]]. Notably, one of their helmet variations is based on [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity#Cybertron cartoon|''Cybertron'' Starscream]]'s, while some Seekers including [[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]] sport triple-barreled weapons on their arms that resemble the [[neutron assault rifle]] from ''Fall of Cybertron'' – specifically the split-in-half configuration seen in the [[Starscream (WFC)/toys#Generations|''Fall of Cybertron'' Starscream toy]] and its redecoes, even including a gear-shaped detail behind the barrels echoing the gears on the toy's accessories.
* Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream/the Seekers, and the cogged versions of Ironhide, Ratchet, and Arcee have details based on their ''Bumblebee'' designs.
*The jet modes of Starscream/the Seekers are also based on ''Bumblebee'', while Soundwave's vehicle mode is based on his [[Soundwave (ROTF)/toys#SS83|''Studio Series Bumblebee'' toy]]. Shockwave's alternate mode resembles his [[Shockwave (WFC)|''War for Cybertron'' counterpart]], and both he and Starscream/the Seekers have details from their [[War for Cybertron: Siege|''Siege'' toys]].
*When Orion "transforms" to run away from the guards, he moves his limbs in a way that evokes [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Toys|his original toy]]'s transformation.
* The Matrix causing Energon to flow and 'killing' the planet when lost calls back to the [[AllSpark]].
* When discussing their mining ability, Elita says Orion "[doesn't] have the touch or the power," a reference to the [[The Touch|beloved song]] from ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* The Iacon 5000 derives from the Marvel UK ''The Transformers'' [[Source:Darn 'n' Blast#Issue 326|issue 326's "Darn 'n' Blast" letter page]]. Many of the racers in the Iacon 5000 are characters from Generation 1 and ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]]'', with their colors and vehicle modes next to their names on the leaderboard, though they do not correspond to specific models except for the miners, Darkwing, and Chromia.
** Racers based on their Generation 1 counterparts include [[Mirage (One)|Mirage]], [[Clampdown (One)|Clampdown]], [[Silverbolt (One)|Silverbolt]], "[[Deadend (One)|Deadend]]", [[Slingshot (One)|Slingshot]], [[Cliffjumper (One)|Cliffjumper]], [[Dragstrip (One)|Dragstrip]], [[Swerve (One)|Swerve]], [[Powerglide (One)|Powerglide]], [[Jetstorm (One)|Jetstorm]], [[Windblade (One)|Windblade]], [[Afterburner (One)|Afterburner]], [[Blurr (One)|Blurr]], [[Fireflight (One)|Fireflight]], [[Cordon (One)|Cordon]], [[Breakdown (One)|Breakdown]], [[Swindle (One)|Swindle]], [[Tailgate (One)|Tailgate]], [[Lightspeed (One)|Lightspeed]], "[[Spinout (One)|Spinout]]", [[Greasepit (One)|Greasepit]], [[Scattershot (One)|Scattershot]], [[Inferno (One)|Inferno]], [[Motormaster (One)|Motormaster]], and "[[Hotrod (One)|Hotrod]]".
** Racers based on their ''Generation 2'' counterparts include [[Blowout (One)|Blowout]], [[High Beam (One)|High Beam]], [[Double Clutch (One)|Double Clutch]], [[Meanstreak (One)|Meanstreak]], [[Motormouth (One)|Motormouth]], [[Speedstream (One)|Speedstream]], "[[Roadrocket (One)|Roadrocket]]", [[Jolt (One)|Jolt]], and [[Staxx (One)|Staxx]].
** [[Override (One)|Override]] and [[Tankor (One)|Tankor]] are based on their ''[[Override (Cybertron)|Cybertron]]'' and ''[[Tankor (BM)|Beast Machines]]'' counterparts, respectively.
**Racers that are only named through dialogue are [[Tailwind (One)|Tailwind]], [[Strafe (One)|Strafe]] (spelled "Streak" in the Spanish subtitles), [[Skyfire (One)|Skyfire]], and original characters [[Thunderglide]] and [[Behemoth]]. Phew!
* After being knocked off the train and stranded on the surface, Elita-1 calls Orion, D-16, and B-127 a bunch of "idiot [[GoBots|go-bots]]".
* The film's themes, "Resting Place of the Primes" and "The Fall", includes a leitmotif from the main theme of ''Transformers: Prime'', which was also composed by Brian Tyler. "The Fall" also plays a motif lifted from ''The Transformers: The Movie'''s "[[Death of Optimus Prime]]" in a different key. More specifically, the motif is from when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] flatlines and dies. Fitting, as "The Fall" plays when Orion Pax is dropped into Cybertron's [[core]] and Optimus Prime is born. Incidentally, this scene and the music are also quite similar to when Megatron fatally shoots Bumblebee in the ''Transformers: Prime'' series finale "[[Deadlock (episode)|Deadlock]]".
*D-16's eye color gradually shifting from yellow to red upon declaring himself "Megatron" is similar to how his [[Megatron (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]'s eye color changed from blue to red after being denied the rank of Prime as seen in the flashbacks of "[[One Shall Rise, Part 3]]".
*The part of "The Fall" that plays when Megatron rips Sentinel in half also includes a leitmotif from [[Transformers: Fall of Cybertron|Fall of Cybertron's]] "The Great Exodus".
* The notion of the Matrix actively rejecting an "unworthy" candidate and disintegrating was a plot point in ''Revenge of the Fallen''.
* Alpha Trion announces "All are one!" as he bequeaths the main quartet their new transformation cogs, a reference to the classic slogan "[['Til all are one]]!" originating from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* An empty Matrix chamber is visible behind Orion's chest window after receiving his cog, even before finding the actual Matrix.
* The throne Starscream sits on is loosely based on the crown his [[Starscream (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] wore during his coronation in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.<ref>[https://youtu.be/fo7EwIlSNAs?si=8y1UWHCLv46WKzE7&t=190 Brian Tyree Henry & Josh Cooley Dissect The Evolution Of Megatron | Transformers One Behind The Shot]</ref>
*Soundwave scans Orion's electrical impulses to check if he is lying, a rarely referenced ability from his [[Soundwave (G1)|original toy's bio]].
*Shockwave's eye flickers when he speaks, just as it did in the original Generation 1 cartoon. Similarly, Optimus Prime's faceplate bobs up and down when he speaks.
* Starscream has a normal-sounding voice (for Steve Buscemi, anyway) when he first appears, but after D-16 crushes his [[voice box]] during their duel, his voice becomes shriller and scratchier in the style of [[Chris Latta]]'s portrayal of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] in the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]].
*Shockwave and Elita have a small rivalry, reflecting their Generation 1 versions in Elita's introduction episode, "[[The Search for Alpha Trion]]".
* Soundwave orders the High Guard to "[[Decepticon Mini-Cassette|eject]]" when descending on Sentinel's tower.
[[File:TFoneOrionJump.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Let my people go!]]
* During the battle in Sentinel Prime's tower, Orion leaps into the air and shoots one of the Trackers, with his midair pose homaging Optimus Prime's famous midair shooting pose from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Megatron is the 'bot who shoots Orion and leaves him on the brink of death until he is resurrected as Optimus Prime in what is likely a reference to the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". However, the specific framing of the scene—in which Megatron shoots Orion and drops him into the depths of the planet, only for him to find the Matrix and return as Optimus—is, however coincidentally, nearly identical to the events of [[Transformation (issue)|issue #9]] of ''Autocracy''. Orion finding the Matrix in the planet's core also evokes the climax of the ''War for Cybertron'' games.
* The fatal wounds Orion Pax sustained from D-16 before his descent into Cybertron's core strongly resemble the wounds Optimus Prime sustained at the end of the ''The Transformers'' episode "[[Dark Awakening (episode)|Dark Awakening]]".
* Megatron disposes of Sentinel Prime in the same manner that his [[Megatron (Movie)|live-action counterpart]] killed [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]]—by bisecting the bot with his bare hands. Similarly, this is also how the [[Rainmaker]]s disposed of Sentinel in the [[2019 IDW continuity]].
* When both Orion Pax and Sentinel Prime die, [[aggressive depigmentation|their bodies turn grey]].
* Orion is caught by a beam and brought to Primus to be reformatted into Optimus Prime, much like how Megatron was caught by [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] and reformatted into [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]].
* "Arise, Optimus Prime", intones Alpha Trion as Orion receives the Matrix, evoking the climax of ''The Transformers: The Movie'', in which a ghostly Optimus Prime said the same to [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] as he transformed into Rodimus Prime.
* When the energy burst from Optimus' return to the surface blows Megatron off his feet, he crashes to the ground in a [https://www.reddit.com/r/transformers/s/QRpmFJRCXz pose] identical to his G1 self after Optimus threw him off during their duel in ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* Megatron using a long piece of sharp, orange shrapnel to attack Optimus also comes from the iconic fight in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus using a defeated Shockwave's cannon to attack another enemy is a fighting move Optimus made in ''Dark of the Moon''.
* After Optimus and Megatron's fight concludes, Megatron is shown with "tear stains" of mech fluid under his eyes, precisely matching the fluid-streaks the original Megatron had running down ''his'' face after his fight with Optimus in ''The Transformers: The Movie''. In ''One'', Megatron then declares "This isn't over, Prime," mirroring his line from ''The Movie'': "It's over, Prime."
* When restoring Cybertron's Energon supply, Optimus holds the Matrix in the same pose Hot Rod holds it when transforming into Rodimus at the end of ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus' concluding narration is presented as a "message" being sent into space, continuing the recurring concept of the ''Transformers'' films ending in such a way, introduced in the [[Transformers (film)|first live-action movie]].
*Optimus' transformation during his ending monologue is accompanied by the original transformation noise.
* In the post-credits scene, Megatron brands the Decepticon insignia onto his troops much like his [[Megatron (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]] did in "[[A Bridge Too Close, Part I]]". Megatron also orders the Decepticons to "[[Roll out#Transformers_Animated|rise up]]", quoting his ''Animated'' counterpart who originated the phrase "transform and rise up" in "[[Megatron Rising - Part 2]]".
* While the newly christened Decepticons fire into the sky, the glow of the laser beams shines on Megatron's insignia in a way that homages the metallic effect of the [[:File:TF-G1-HD-Logo-Evil-Decepticon.png|original Decepticon ''The Transformers'' logo]], and many a [[scene transition]].

==Real-life references==
* One of B-127's "friends" is named [https://youtu.be/Dd7FixvoKBw?t=104 A-A-Tron].
* As Orion Pax and D-16 approach the finish line in the Iacon 5000, the announcer quotes verbatim Joe Starkey's call of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play_(American_football) The Play] from the 1982 Cal-Stanford game. "The most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heart-rending, exciting, thrilling finish in the history of—" It can be assumed he would say "The Iacon 5000" in place of "college football," had Chromia not sped past to win the race.

==Errors==
* The history record about Primus, the Primes, and the Matrix that Orion Pax watches in the archives is recorded by [[Laurence Fishburne|a voice]] that clearly belongs to Alpha Trion. Yet, the events described in the history record include the disappearance of the Matrix, which happened after the Primes were killed and Alpha Trion went offline. So how could Alpha Trion have made that recording when he was lying comatose in a cave during that time?
* Many of the miners based on recognizable characters appear multiple times in the background or between shots, with many, such as Ironhide, having numerous occupations and being in multiple places at the same time.
* The High Guard has the same issue. Slipstream is shown to have been captured by the Death Trackers, but is later shown to take part in the attack on Sentinel's tower. Thundercracker is sliced in half by Airachnid, but is present the rest of the film.
* Mirage, with the colors and land-based vehicle mode of his [[Mirage (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]], appears on the leaderboard of the Iacon 5000, but one of the cogless miners is clearly based on Generation 1 Mirage.
* Chromia is the racer that wins the Iacon 5000, but a bot that better resembles [[Chromia (G1)|Generation 1 Chromia]] appears as a miner too. Production designer Jason Scheier would confirm the miner bot is just a bot that resembles Chromia, while the one in the Iacon 5000 is the 'real' Chromia.
* One of the cogless miners is clearly meant to be [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], with a black crest, red pelvis, and red pips on his shoulders. However, the scene after the Iacon 5000 in Iacon's medical center has a voice on the intercom paging a "Dr. Ratchet".
* Airachnid's legs are floating behind her back in her conversation with Sentinel Prime after he murders Alpha Trion.
* When Starscream interrogates the main quartet in the High Guard lair, Slipstream's hands are [https://www.reddit.com/r/Transformemes/comments/1gw87v2/something_feels_missing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 positioned] as if she is holding a blaster but the blaster itself is not present at all, resulting in a rather awkward pose.
* The incriminating clips of Sentinel replayed from Airachnid's mind reuse clips from previous scenes of the movie instead of being from Airachnid's point of view. She wasn't exaggerating when she said "I see ''everything''"!
* Additionally, one of Sentinel’s lines in Airachnid’s mind isn’t present in the scene it should come from; her memory of the meeting with the Quintessons includes Sentinel saying “I’m working my miners as hard as I can”, a line that’s never said in the original scene.
* During the long take of Optimus Prime using his Energon axe to fight off Megatron, Starscream, Shockwave, and Soundwave at the end of the film, Soundwave's shoulder cannon is on his left shoulder. In every other shot of the film, he is depicted with the cannon over his right shoulder like his G1 counterpart usually does.

==Music==
A score album, ''[[Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]]'', features the original music by composer [[Brian Tyler]] and was released concurrently with the film. It notably repurposes a leitmotif from his work on [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|''Transformers: Prime'']] into this film's main theme. The score also has other Transformers references, both in the melodies and titles of the tracks. The composer, under his electronic side project "Are We Dreaming", also produced the end credits song, "If I Fall", featuring rappers [[W:Quavo|Quavo]] (of Migos fame) and [[W:Ty Dolla Sign|Ty Dolla $ign]].

Canadian DJ {{w|Excision_(musician)|Excision}} released the dubstep song "Together As One", which samples numerous lines from the film's cast, as part of the film's marketing campaign. Many of the lines in this song would go unused in the film's final cut. Chinese artist {{w|Yuqi}} released the song "ONE" as part of the film's Chinese marketing campaign. Neither song is present in the film.

==Reception==
{{quote|Just when you’re about to give up on stories that endlessly repackage the same trademarked properties, along comes a movie like Josh Cooley’s “Transformers One.” As its subtly confident title suggests, it carries itself as if nobody had ever made a Transformers movie before.|Matt Zoller Seitz|[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/transformers-one-film-review Rogerebert.com]}}

While [[Michael Bay]]'s ''Transformers'' films were notable for their record-breaking profits despite mixed to overwhelmingly negative reviews, ''Transformers One'' faced the opposite problem. While [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|the previous theatrical ''Transformers'' film]] met with mixed reviews, ''Transformers One'' enjoyed an almost universally positive reception from both film critics and casual moviegoers. Critics praised the film's visual design, its nuanced approach to characterization and worldbuilding, and the performances of the film's voice actors, with many singling out Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry for their portrayals of Orion Pax and D-16. As of October 2024, its RottenTomatoes rating sits at 89% positive critical reviews and 98% positive audience reviews.

In the United States and Canada, ''Transformers One'' was originally projected to gross between 30 and 40 million dollars on its opening weekend. Ultimately, the film only made 24.6 million dollars, and finished second in the box office behind ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}'' (which had been released ''two weeks'' prior) in a surprise upset. <ref> [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-office-can-transformers-one-borrow-a-page-from-spider-verse-and-recover-1236009559/ "Box Office: Can Transformers One Borrow a Page From Spider-Verse and Recover?"] </ref> In its second weekend, the film lost out out to rival animated robot movie ''{{w|The Wild Robot}}'', and ultimately took in a mere 9.2 million dollars after suffering a 62.8% drop. <ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/09/box-office-megalopolis-the-wild-robot-1236101618/ "'Wild Robot' Powers To Third Best September Animated Pic Debut With $35M; 'Megalopolis' Collapses With $4M & D+ CinemaScore; 'Saturday Night' Alive In Limited Release -- Box Office Update" </ref>

==Development timeline==
[[File:Transformers-One-Teaser-Poster.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''There can be miracles when you believe Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill Who knows what miracles you can achieve When you believe, somehow you will You will when you believe'']]
*March 27, 2015 — As part of the development of ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]'', [[Paramount Pictures]] negotiates with [[Akiva Goldsman]], hiring him to create a "writer's room" to build a cinematic universe.<ref name="goldsman">[https://deadline.com/2015/03/transformers-akiva-goldsman-paramount-sequels-spinoffs-1201400027/ Paramount Enlisting Akiva Goldsman To Ramp Up 'Transformers' Output] on deadline.com</ref> Among the writers hired are ''Ant-Man and the Wasp'' scribes [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]], who pitch the concept of an animated ''Transformers'' prequel set in the [[Live-action film series|live-action series universe]].<ref name="barrerferrari">[https://deadline.com/2015/05/transformers-ant-man-andrew-barrer-gabriel-ferrari-cybertron-1201433402/ 'Ant-Man' Scribes Andrew Barrer & Gabriel Ferrari Join 'Transformers' Writers Room] on Deadline</ref>
*December 20, 2018 — Following the release of ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'', [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] hints in an interview that the animated prequel is still in the works.<ref>[https://www.metro.us/will-there-be-a-bumblebee-2-whats-the-future-for-the-transformers-universe-heres-what-its-producer-told-us/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura interview for Metro USA]</ref>
*April 29, 2020 — Director [[Josh Cooley]] (''Toy Story 4'') is reported to have been brought into the project to oversee a final draft, which is said to be "separate and apart" from the live-action films.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />
*May 18, 2021 — [[Allspark Pictures]] President [[Greg Mooradian]] credits the animated ''Transformers'' film on his Linkedin page with a 2023 release.<ref>[https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-mooradian-4a5062200/ Greg Mooradian's Linkedin:] "TRANSFORMERS (Animated Feature), with Oscar-winner Josh Cooley directing (2023 release)"</ref>
*May 24, 2021 — Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]] confirms the animated feature is in development, and will be released at some point after ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|Transformers: Rise of the Beasts]]''.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/05/24/tfw2005-coverage-of-49th-j-p-morgan-conference-434088 TFW2005 Coverage Of 49th J.P. Morgan Conference]</ref>
*January 21, 2022 — Paramount announces an untitled animated Transformers movie will be released on July 19, 2024.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-release-date/ Collider: New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Release Date Set For 2024]</ref>
*April 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura reveals that the entire film takes place on Cybertron, and the setting explores how they begin to question the hierarchy of how their society has gotten stratified, and how the common man doesn't have the voice that they want to have.<ref name=collider2023>[https://collider.com/transformers-animated-movie-characters-plot-cybertron-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ Here’s What the New Animated ‘Transformers’ Movie Is About (Exclusive)]</ref>
*April 21, 2023 — A day after the previous interview, di Bonaventura confirms [[Industrial Light & Magic]]'s involvement as the film's animation studio, bringing the company back to the franchise for the first time since ''Bumblebee''.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-ilm-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ The New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Is Partnering With an Industry Giant for the CGI (Exclusive)]/</ref>
*April 27, 2023 — The first members of the film's voice cast are revealed, consisting of [[Chris Hemsworth]] as Optimus Prime, [[Brian Tyree Henry]] as Megatron, [[Scarlett Johansson]] as Elita, [[Keegan-Michael Key]] as Bumblebee, [[Jon Hamm]] as Sentinel Prime, and [[Laurence Fishburne]] as Alpha Trion.<ref>[https://variety.com/2023/film/news/transformers-animated-prequel-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235596692/ ‘Transformers’ Animated Prequel Sets Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and More Voice Cast]</ref>
*May 24, 2023 — Paramount moves the film's release date to September 13, 2024.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2023/05/transformers-one-release-date-pushed-by-paramount-1235379167/ ‘Transformers One’: Paramount Pushes Date For Animated Feature]</ref>
*June 7, 2023 — di Bonaventura teases how the film stands out from previous entries in the franchise, praises Chris Hemsworth's casting as Optimus Prime, and mentions a vocal transition from Hemsworth's voice to [[Peter Cullen]]'s as the character for audiences to witness. [[Steve Desmond]] and [[Michael Sherman]] (''Knock at the Cabin'') were revealed to be additional writers for the film, but where uncredited when the final credit came in.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ 'Transformers One' Producer Is Already Hyped for Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime]</ref>
*June 15, 2023 — Scarlett Johansson discusses the film's animation and praises Cooley as director.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqG5mlRxzs Scarlett Johansson Says Transformers One Looks So Cool]</ref> Chris Hemsworth later brings details on voicing Optimus Prime for the film and his reasoning he joined the project through his love of the script. He confirms that he will not use his regular voice for the character.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrsvSzWHoE Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime Sadly Won't Be Australian in Transformers One]</ref>
*July 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura confirms Optimus Prime and Megatron in the film will be depicted under their Orion Pax and D-16 identities.<ref>[https://onetakenews.com/2023/07/20/lorenzo-di-bonaventura-transformers-one/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura Teases Upcoming Film ‘Transformers: One’: “It’s Something I’ve Wanted To Do For A Long Time” (Exclusive)]</ref>
*December 15, 2023 — Keegan-Michael Key mentions his voice for Bumblebee is closer to his regular speaking voice.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLM71B5xmFY Transformers One: Keegan-Michael Key Reveals What Bumblebee Sounds Like in New Animated Film]</ref>
*April 11, 2024 — The cast of the movie previews the trailer and reveals a new logo for the film at Cinemacon 2024, The Hollywood Reporter also confirms [[Steve Buscemi]] has joined the cast.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-animated-movie-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235871998/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and Brian Tyree Henry Debut Origin Story 'Transformers One' - The Hollywood Reporter]</ref> During the presentation, Hemsworth revealed that Cullen served as a consultant on the getting the voice down.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-news-film-is-testing-very-well-and-peter-cullen-consulted-chris-hemsworth-on-voice/48127/ Transformers One News: Film is Testing Very Well and Peter Cullen Consulted Chris Hemsworth on Voice]</ref>
*April 16, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry announce the date of the film's first trailer being on Thursday, April 18, 2024, as it will be launched into space.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-trailer-premiered-from-space/ The 'Transformers One' Trailer Will Be Premiered From Space - Collider]</ref>
[[File:TransformersOne-weatherballoon.jpg|right|thumb|250px|''So how do you judge what a man is worth? By what he [[Toy|builds or buys]]? You can never see with your eyes on Earth Look through Heaven's eyes Look at your life. Look at your life Look at your life through Heaven's eyes'']]
*April 18, 2024 — A livestream hosted by Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry follows a small craft launched towards space, with a screen that plays the trailer once it reaches 125,000 feet. The movie's release date has been pushed back by one week, to September 20, reportedly to avoid the release conflicting with that of ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}''.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/04/transformers-one-trailer-release-date-1235889037/ ‘Transformers One’ Launches Trailer In Space, A First For A Movie Studio; Pic Going Later In September]</ref> When asked whether the film is a fresh start, a prequel to the live-action films, or its own thing, Cooley replies "yes to all of the above".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref>
*May 20, 2024 — [[Brian Tyler]] is attached as the film's composer.<ref>[https://filmmusicreporter.com/2024/05/20/brian-tyler-scoring-josh-cooleys-transformers-one/ Brian Tyler Scoring Josh Cooley’s ‘Transformers One’ - Filmmusicreporter.com]</ref>
*June 7, 2024 — Production for the film is revealed to be finished in the following month.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2024/06/07/work-on-transformers-one-animated-movie-is-set-to-wrap-up-in-july-513038 Work On Transformers: One Animated Movie Is Set To Wrap Up In July - TFW2005]</ref>
*June 10, 2024 — A work-in-progress cut of the film was screened at the {{w|Annecy International Animation Film Festival}} to a standing ovation.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235918820/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Transformers One’ Draws Laughs, Cheers in Its Annecy Debut - Hollywood Reporter]</ref>
*June 12, 2024 — Several media outlets, including representatives from TFWiki, are invited to an [[Transformers One London advance screening|advance screening]] hosted by di Bonaventura and Cooley.
*June 18, 2024 — Production designer Jason Scheier confirms animation for the film is finished.<ref>[https://twitter.com/ScheierJason/status/1803227407404638226/ Production Designer Jason Scheier's post on Twitter]</ref>
*June 27, 2024 — Sound-mixing for the film is finished, with production finally now complete around three months in advance of release.<ref>[https://www.instagram.com/p/C8vPCEUS3Bs/ @CooleyYourFaceOff - Instagram]</ref>
*July 9, 2024 — A panel for the film has been announced for [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2024 on Thursday, July 25 at 11:45 am PST at Hall H.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-comic-con-1236004636/ Paramount Animation & Hasbro Entertainment’s ‘Transformers One’ Will Be More Than Meets The Eye At San Diego Comic-Con]</ref>
*July 13, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth, Bryan Tyree Henry, and Keegan-Michael Key reveal a new clip of the main cast transforming for the first time at the Kids' Choice Awards 2024.<ref>[https://twitter.com/transformers/status/1812285185427431646/ Post from the official Transformers account on Twitter]</ref>
*July 23, 2024 — Cooley discusses how ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' influenced ''One''.<ref>[https://ew.com/transformers-one-comic-con-preview-optimus-prime-megatron-origin-story-8676886 Transformers One director reveals how infamous 1986 animated movie influenced new prequel film]</ref> A screening of the finished film was shown at a fan-event at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles and in New York City.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/anime/news/transformers-one-review-first-reactions/ Transformers One First Reactions are Raving Over "Best Transformers Film to Date"]</ref> Hemsworth talks about voicing Optimus Prime in the film and how his depiction stands out.<ref>[https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-orion-pax/ Chris Hemsworth on Becoming Optimus Prime for Transformers One (Exclusive)]</ref>
*July 24, 2024 — Several new posters are released, along with the announcement of a new trailer the following day at the SDCC panel.<ref>[https://twutter.com/transformers/status/1816111093917573615/ Second trailer announcement on Twitter]</ref>
*July 25, 2024 — Details at the SDCC panel were revealed, along with the debut of the second trailer and Bucsemi's role announced to be Starscream.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-comic-con-1236022134/ ‘Transformers One’ Ignites Comic-Con With Chris Hemsworth, Brian Tyree Henry & Keegan-Michael Key: How Two Best Friends Became Immortal Enemies]</ref> [[Eric Pearson]] was revealed to be an additional writer.<ref>[https://www.awn.com/news/paramount-drops-transformers-one-trailer-2 Paramount Drops ‘Transformers One’ Trailer #2]</ref>
*August 21, 2024 — A new clip of Orion Pax and D-16 competing in the Iacon 5000 race is released on Paramount's YouTube channel.<ref>[https://youtu.be/7o-bGIBZxdc?feature=shared/ TRANSFORMERS ONE Film Clip IACON Race Begins (2024)]</ref>
*August 23, 2024 — Evan Michael Lee is revealed to be voicing Jazz.<ref>[https://twitter.com/Evanmichaellee/status/1826960202920530306/ Evan Michael Lee on Twitter]</ref>
*August 24, 2024 — [[Jon Bailey]], [[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]], [[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]] and [[Vanessa Liguori]] are revealed to be voicing Soundwave, Shockwave, Darkwing and Airachnid respectively, with Bailey reprising his role from ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]''.<ref>[https://punto.com.ph/paramount-pictures-our-crew-rolls-deep-meet-the-voice-cast-behind-the-characters-in-transformers-one-in-cinemas-september-18/ PARAMOUNT PICTURES : OUR CREW ROLLS DEEP: MEET THE VOICE CAST BEHIND THE CHARACTERS IN “TRANSFORMERS ONE,” IN CINEMAS SEPTEMBER 18 on Punzo.com]</ref>
*September 6, 2024 — The film's credits song, '[[If I Fall]]' by [[Quavo]], is released.<ref>[https://youtu.be/M3FCIf0HFnk?si=NB1J3bT9XNPOpKCc/ If I Fall (Music from the Motion Picture Transformers One / Lyric Video)]</ref>
*September 12, 2024 — In an interview, Lorenzo di Bonaventura clarifies that ''One'' doesn't directly connect to the live-action films, and describes them as "two universes" that will be "[kept] separate". However, he notes that ''One'' will likely have an influence on future live-action projects.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> The film's review embargo is also lifted, and the film debuts with an 89% "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-critic-reviews-are-out-currently-89-on-rotten-tomatoes/48337/ Transformers One Critic Reviews are Out, Currently 89% on Rotten Tomatoes]</ref>
*September 13, 2024 — The film's main theme is released.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFnuXrOH0fs/ Brian Tyler - Transformers One Theme | Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]</ref>
*September 17, 2024 — In an interview with Lorenzo di Bonaventura and Josh Cooley, when asked again about ''One''{{'}}s relation to any of the live-action movies, di Bonaventura stated, "It was like 300 million years before the [[Transformers (film)|first Michael Bay movie]], so if that's a prequel, that's a prequel."<ref>[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-and-josh-cooley-interview/ Transformers One Producer Hopes For Sequel & Confirms G.I. Joe Crossover]</ref>
*September 18, 2024 — An early fan event screening is held, preceded by a seven-minute featurette consisting of interview segments with Hemsworth, Henry, and Key, footage of main cast recording their dialogue, and some [https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1836584462341054907 hilarious trivia]. Attendees receive one of four exclusive keychains and poster prints featuring Orion Pax, D-16, B-127, or Elita-1.<ref>https://bleedingcool.com/movies/transformers-one-4-new-posters-tickets-go-on-sale-fan-screenings/</ref>
*September 20, 2024 — The first 300 ticket holders at participating theaters receive a poster print of {{w|Shadow the Hedgehog}} to promote the upcoming release of ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog (character)|Sonic the Hedgehog 3]]''.<ref>https://kotaku.com/sonic-3-shadow-print-transformers-one-theater-showtimes-1851649010</ref>

===Changes before, during, and after production===
*Although the broad story beats of ''One'' remained more or less consistent over the course of the film's development, the first draft—written before Josh Cooley's involvement—was a silly, joke-heavy script that was very different in tone from the final product. When first brought on to direct, Cooley pushed for a more serious treatment to bring the film closer in line to the usual tone of the ''Transformers'' franchise.<ref name="gizmodo">[https://gizmodo.com/transformers-one-director-interview-josh-cooley-easter-eggs-2000489187 ''Transformers One'' Director Josh Cooley Talks Lore, Easter Eggs, and Alternate Versions] </ref>
*At one point, a bird robot based on ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Aerobolt]] would've played a role in the story.<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "In an older version of the story we explored Aerobolt being part of the story. It never made it into the final."|link=https://x.com/ScheierJason/status/1840624306465755358|name=Jason Scheier|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=9|day=30}}</ref>
*An early draft had a scene where Orion and D-16 played an arcade game together, which would've featured an 8-bit version of "The Touch". The gag was eventually dropped, although the arcade machine and a different reference to the song made it into the final film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*Another draft had D-16 as a gladiator, alluding to another part of the character's standard origin story, but ultimately this concept was cut for time.<ref>[https://www.indiewire.com/features/animation/transformers-one-star-wars-old-republic-interview-1235017651/ ‘Transformers One’ Director Talks Bringing the Franchise to Its ‘Old Republic’ Era - Indiewire]</ref>
*Originally, the film would've ended on a smash cut to the film's title, accompanied by a rendition of the classic ''Transformers'' [[theme song]]. However, Cooley decided that the scene would be overly self-referential, and instead [[Brian Tyler]] scored an original composition to close out the film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*A shot of Orion, Elita, Soundwave, and Shockwave exiting the train after crashing into Sentinel's tower is not in the final film, and only appears in promotional material.
*Concept air for Airachnid reveals she was initially planned to transform into a spider rather than a drone.
*A bot resembling [[Reflector]] was also present in concept art, but makes no appearance in the film proper. Unless he was the cameraman.

==Notes==
*As seen in the cast list above, Arcee and Chromia are voiced by Jinny Chung, the film's story / script coordinator. The Injured Racer is voiced by Dillon Bryan, Josh Cooley's assistant. Cooley himself cameos as Skywarp, the "Control Room Guys", and the PA system.
* Several international releases of the film are edited to cut away from Orion's "finger transformation" a few seconds earlier, as well as changing any mention of Bee's "knife hands" to refer to them as "sword hands" instead.
* The credits feature a dedication to former Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]], who passed away in October 2021.
*Darkwing was named by Hasbro designer [[Mark Maher]], when his boss asked him "If this was a Decepticon flyer, who would it be?"<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://www.instagram.com/stories/markclonus/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2024|month=09|day=08}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''''Transformers/One''''' (トランスフォーマー/ONE ''Toransufōmā Wan'')
*''Cantonese:'' '''''Bin Ying Gam Gong: Choh Chi Pin''''' (變形金剛：初始篇, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''French:'' '''''Transformers : Le Commencement''''' (France, "Transformers: The Beginning"), '''''Transformers : Un''''' (Canada, "Transformers: One")
*''Hungarian:'' '''''Transformers Egy''''' ("Transformers One")
*''Korean:'' '''''Transformer ONE''''' (트랜스포머 ONE ''Teuraenseupomeo ONE'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''''Biànxíng Jīngāng: Qǐyuán''''' (变形金刚：起源, "Transformers: The Origin")
*''Portuguese:'' '''''Transformers: O Início''''' ("Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Russian:'' '''''Transformery: Nachalo''''' (Трансформеры: Начало, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Spanish:'' '''''Transformers One''''' (Spain), '''''Transformers : Uno''''' (Latin America, "Transformers: One")

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:One| ]]
[[Category:Real world films]]

Transformers One (film)

2024-11-22T00:36:36Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers references */

{{Nav-one}}
{{movie|
|seriess=Transformers One
|prev=
|next=
|title=''Transformers One''
|image=Transformers One New Theatrical Poster.jpg
|caption=The motion picture you are about to see is an adaptation of the [[Transformers: Exodus|Exodus]] story. While artistic and historical license has been taken, we believe that this film is true to the essence, values and integrity of a story that is a cornerstone of faith for [[fandom|millions of people worldwide]].
|production companies=[[Hasbro Entertainment]] [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura|di Bonaventura Pictures]] Bayhem Films [[Paramount Animation]] New Republic Pictures
|distributor=[[Paramount Pictures]]
|executive producer=[[Steven Spielberg]] [[Zev Foreman]] [[Olivier Dumont]] [[Brian Oliver]] [[B.J. Farmer]] [[Matt Quigg]] [[Greg Moordain]]
|producer=[[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] [[Tom DeSanto]] [[Don Murphy]] [[Michael Bay]] [[Mark Vahradian]] [[Aaron Dem]]
|story by=[[Andrew Barrer]] [[Gabriel Ferrari]]
|screenplay by=[[Eric Pearson]] Andrew Barrer Gabriel Ferrari
|directed by=[[Josh Cooley]]
|cinematography by=
|edited by=
|music by= [[Brian Tyler]]
|release date=[[September 20]], [[2024]]
|runtime=104 minutes
|budget= $75 million
|box office=$129 million<ref>https://the-numbers.com/movie/Transformers-One-(2024)#tab=summary</ref>
|credits=Transformers One (film)/credits
}}

'''''Transformers One''''' is an animated film released on [[September 20]], [[2024]]. It is written by [[Eric Pearson]], [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]] from a story by Barrer and Ferrari,<ref name="deadlinereveal">[https://deadline.com/2015/09/transformers-writers-room-akiva-goldsman-transformers-5-1201531918/ 'Transformers' Writers Room Wraps] on Deadline</ref> and directed by [[Josh Cooley]].<ref name="cooleyreveal">[https://deadline.com/2020/04/transformers-animated-movie-paramount-hasbro-toy-story-4-director-josh-cooley-1202921100/ Animated 'Transformers' Prequel Activated; 'Toy Story 4's Josh Cooley To Direct For Hasbro/eOne & Paramount]</ref> The movie is an origin story set on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] three billion years ago<ref name="collidercinemacon">[https://collider.com/transformers-one-animated-movie-title/ New ‘Transformers’ Animated Movie Rolls Out a New Title at CinemaCon] on Collider</ref><ref name="screenrantsandiegocomiccon">[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-timeline-setting-takes-place// When Transformers One Takes Place In The Franchise Timeline] on Screen Rant</ref> in the days before the Autobot-Decepticon war, and focuses on [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (One)|Megatron]] as they go from brothers-in-arms to enemies.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />

{{bigquote|The line between friend and enemy is not as clear as I once believed. Once it's crossed, there is no going back. Because some transformations are permanent...|[[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]]}}

==Synopsis==
Long ago, the benevolent [[Primus]] sacrificed his life essence to become the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], and created the [[Thirteen|first generation of Transformers]], the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s. Through the power of the [[Matrix of Leadership]], [[energon]] flowed freely from the planet's core, and the Primes ruled justly for a time. However, when the alien [[Quintesson]]s began a long war of invasion, the Primes were eventually slain, and the Matrix of Leadership was lost, leaving only [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] to rule the planet in their absence after the Cybertronians relocated to massive underground cities, abandoning the dangerous surface.

[[File:TFOne Orion caught.jpg|left|thumb|300px|She's exhausted from the day's work. Uh, not that it was too much! We-we quite enjoyed it!]]
Fifty cycles after the war, Cybertronian society now relies on an [[Cogless|underclass]] of manual laborers born without [[transformation cog]]s, including a caste of miners who physically extract what few veins of usable energon remain from the tunnels beneath the subterranean [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] City, while Sentinel Prime makes periodic journeys to the surface in search of the missing Matrix. One impulsive miner named [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] has been searching for information regarding the Matrix, in the hopes that finding the artifact will restore Cybertron to prosperity and allow him and his fellow miners to choose their own path in life. Unfortunately, this search for information has led him to repeatedly break into the city's data archives without authorization. His latest attempt draws the unwanted attention of two [[Guard (One)|guards]] who have caught him several times in the past already, leading to a wild (and nearly lethal) chase through the skyways, through buildings, and eventually into the ground-level public transport station. Though the guards eventually catch up to Orion, the miner's friend [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] provides a distraction and sends the guards off on a wild goose chase. On the train to work, the pair discuss Orion's latest life-endangering adventure, and Orion, knowing that his friend idolizes the strongest Prime, gifts D-16 a rare first-edition decal of [[The Fallen|Megatronus Prime]]'s helmet he'd found.

[[File:TFOne Mine Explosion.jpg|right|thumb|300px|We're trying to get the funny man out of the well!]]
In the mines, D-16 and Orion work under the supervision of their go-getting captain [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]], using [[jet pack]]s and deployable support poles to keep Cybertron's shifting geology stable long enough for them to extract raw energon. However, [[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]] accidentally hits a vein of unstable energon, and the ensuing explosions trap [[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] under a rockfall. Orion and D-16 defy protocol and use a jet pack to save their coworker, but the chaos ends up damaging and destroying a lot of mine equipment. One of the mine's guards, [[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]], blames Elita for the disaster, and informs her she's been demoted to waste management duty, despite Orion sticking up for her and taking the blame.

That evening, Sentinel Prime returns to Iacon to announce that he still has not found the Matrix; to take the blow off this bad news, Sentinel declares that the prestigious [[Iacon 5000]] race will be held the next day. Orion tries to persuade D-16 to join him in the race, hoping that they can prove to the rest of Cybertron that mining bots deserve respect, but D-16 has no interest in the idea. On the day of the race, Orion discreetly leads D-16 to the maintenance area inside the giant starting signal above the race's starting line; while D-16 is initially excited to watch from a perfect vantage point, Orion reveals his true intention as he straps jet packs to the two just as the race begins and they're dropped into the thick of a throng of racing robots. Using their jet packs and some quick thinking to compensate for their inability to transform, the two dodge the numerous traps and obstacles and briefly manage to take the lead, sending bots across the city into a frenzy, especially their fellow cogless miners. The pair are just about to limp across the finish line and take first place, but end up being run down by [[Chromia (One)|Chromia]], who snags victory for herself. The pair figure they can still be proud of second place... until several dozen other racers whip by them in vehicle mode.

[[File:TFOne Sentinel visits.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I seek to build an empire, and your only goal is to amuse yourselves by tearing it down. Have I taught you nothing?]]
In Iacon's medical center, where many, many racers have ultimately ended up, Sentinel Prime meets with Orion and D-16; the pair are immediately certain they are in ''massive'' trouble, especially when they're scanned by Sentinel's creepy aide [[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] before his arrival, but it turns out it's quite the opposite. Sentinel ''loved'' their little stunt, and tells them that the miners' productivity after that showing was already at 150%. Sentinel offers them a chance to tour the mines and help inspire their comrades to work harder, with promises of some pampering along the way, and the pair quickly agree. However, Darkwing arrives before Airachnid can escort them to Sentinel's private quarters; infuriated that he nearly lost the race to the pair after they humiliated him, he drags them to the planet's fiftieth sub-level (ten levels below what they ''thought'' was the lowest level of the planet) and locks them in a trash incineration station.

The two bots soon meet the eccentric and exceptionally talkative [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]], who has been trapped at the job of "look at garbage and take anything of value out before it's burned" for years, with only garbage statues for "company". When one of B's pals "[[Steve (One)|Steve]]" utters some electronic gibberish, Orion accidentally beheads the "bot", but discovers within the wreckage an old beacon from the Quintesson war, still broadcasting a set of coordinates located somewhere on the planet's surface. Orion, B-127, and D-16 decide to investigate, escaping the only way they can: by climbing up the dump chute. Ew. The trio stow away aboard an automated surface-bound garbage train but coincidentally encounter Elita-1, who now works the refuse line. She handily clobbers the three but ends up locked in the train with them as it departs. She heads for the front, intending to report them to security, a mad dash that gets all the harder as the train starts moving vertically towards its destination. She manages to pop a hatch and make it out of the train, and the trio gives chase, but all four are stopped cold as they're enveloped in light and they find themselves traveling along Cybertron's surface.

The four are stunned by the planet's natural beauty, only to become horrified as said natural beauty starts violently heaving upwards behind them, tearing up the self-building rail and scattering train cars. They run for it but are thrown off, waking in just enough time to completely miss another train, the rail un-building behind it. Elita is furious, but agrees to join Orion's search for the Matrix, on the conditions that 1) she's in command, 2) she holds the map, and 3) after they find the Matrix and bring it back, the other three turn themselves in for their idiotic plan and sing her praises to the authorities. Orion very quickly agrees, and the four head off, confused by the weird not-metal life growing on the surface. They spy a group of robotic quadrupedal lifeforms, which suddenly snap to attention and run for it as the ground begins to tremble. It's soon apparent the cause of their panic: a massive Quintesson spaceship! As the ship scans for any lifeforms (obliterating one of the Cybertronian fauna with a massive cannon blast when it ends up in the tracking beams), the four barely evade detection and the ship moves on.

[[File:TransformersOne-AlphaTrionTransformationCogs.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Take the staff in your hand, Moses. With it, you shall do My wonders.]]
Soon they find themselves at the end of the map's trail, a [[Mouth of Unicron|hidden and extremely creepy cave]]. Inside they find a scene of absolute horror: the spot where the ancient Primes made their final stand against the Quintessons, their bodies lying broken and covered in overgrowth. Although the Matrix is nowhere to be found, Orion discovers that [[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]'s spark still pulses and uses an [[energon cube]] provided by B to revive him. The four attempt to bring Trion up to speed on recent events, but their mention of "Sentinel Prime" causes Trion to reveal the terrible truth: Sentinel is an imposter, a traitorous aide who led the Primes into a Quintesson ambush in exchange for "ruling" Cybertron under the invaders' command. However, when Sentinel tried to claim the Matrix after prying it from [[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]]'s corpse, the artifact judged him unworthy and disappeared. To appease his new masters, Sentinel has deliberately stolen transformation cogs from newborn Transformers to keep them producing energon in the mines; at Trion's urging, the four emerge from the cave to witness Sentinel pledging servitude to the [[Quintesson High Commander]] and learn the city's garbage trains are actually transporting Cybertron's dwindling energon supplies to Quintesson ships, leaving barely enough for the people of Cybertron. These revelations leave the bots horrified, but D-16 takes it the worst of all, having also looked up to Sentinel for years. Alpha Trion decides to give the team hope by gifting them the transformation cogs from four of the fallen Primes, as well as a recording of Sentinel's treachery. However, Airachnid spotted the four when they were watching Sentinel's meeting with the Quintessons, and a squad of Sentinel's [[Tracker]]s arrive. Despite his disrepair, Alpha Trion uses his leonine alternate mode to wipe out the squad, allowing Orion and the others to escape, but is quickly incapacitated by Airachnid.

The four bots have a very rocky time learning to transform in the middle of fleeing a squad of Trackers, tumbling downhill with only ''parts'' of them shifting into their new vehicle modes, but desperation forces them to adapt ''very'' quickly. Each one finds new abilities and an aptitude for combat, and soon they're able to destroy their pursuers. Overjoyed at their victory, they make the plan to use the incriminating information Trion gave them by returning to Iacon and exposing Sentinel as a traitor. In their excitement, they fail to notice a Tracker about to shoot them from behind until D-16 uses his new tank mode to kill him first... and then starts laughing at what he just did. D-16 snatches the evidence and takes the lead, his ever-growing intensity and openly stated desire to kill Sentinel leaving Orion more and more unnerved.

Back in Iacon, Alpha Trion is brought before Sentinel, who mocks the "old-timer" and gloats about his station, complaining to Airachnid about the Primes' stuffiness and boring speeches. Trion's word of warning that Sentinel's time will soon be over only annoys the false Prime further, and in a fit of rage he kills the ancient Prime before sending Airachnid back to the surface to hunt down the wayward miners.

[[File:TFoneStarscreamSoundwaveShockwaveInterrogation.jpg|left|thumb|300px|You're playing with the big boys now!]]
Along the path to Iacon, a series of shots ring out, and each bot slips into stasis... Orion and the others are brought back online, bound (and gagged in B's case) as prisoners of the former members of Cybertron's [[High Guard]], who have been fighting a guerrilla war against the Quintessons ever since the fall of the Primes, led by [[Starscream (One)|Starscream]]. D-16 is not impressed, and giving into his growing rage, challenges Starscream's authority, and the two quickly end up in a brawl. While Starscream plays it tough even as D-16 crushes his neck and damages his speech module, his attitude soon changes as D-16 manifests a massive cannon on his arm, aimed directly at Starscream's head. The Guard quickly rallies behind their new leader, ready to take the fight to Sentinel... but Airachnid's forces arrive and ambush them.

[[File:TFOne Airachnid attacks.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Not much of a snake-charmer, are you?]]
Orion, having been buried in the battle, awakens when Elita drags him from the rubble to find that D-16, B-127, and much of the Guard have been taken prisoner, and the data crystal containing the evidence of Sentinel's betrayal has been shattered. Orion despairs, believing their quest to be hopeless now, but Elita won't have it. Though she's still not above taking some digs at Orion, she points out that it is the bot's endless ''optimism'' that makes him a true leader, one that can make bots do amazing (and occasionally amazingly ''stupid'') things. Orion takes the praise (and insults) and decides it's time to rally, and the two quickly formulate a plan; the Guard may be strong, but the last battle proved they aren't enough on their own, they need a true army... and Orion knows exactly where to get one. After Elita quickly shuts down any dissent from the remaining Guard (thanks to a very swift punch to [[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave's]] eye), Orion primes the warriors for the coming battle, with a cry of "''[[Roll out|Transform and ROLL OUT]]!''"

The captives have been brought to Sentinel's tower, where the puppet leader gloats over them, mocking Starscream's scrambled voice and sneering at D-16. But the miner does not cower or balk at all, declaring that he is not afraid of Sentinel, as he has nothing left to lose. Noticing the worn Megatronus decal, Sentinel reveals that he took Megatronus's transformation cog when he killed him, ripping the decal from the miner's arm before slapping it back onto his chest... and then, knocking the miner on his back, using a mining tool to crudely ''carve'' the Prime's face into D-16's chest.

Orion uses his new form to rocket-glide into the depths of Iacon City, entering the miners' quarters (and bodily hurling Darkwing aside in the process). Orion reveals the truth to the miners and rallies them to join forces with the High Guard and rebel against Sentinel's regime. Meanwhile, Elita, Shockwave, and [[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] have commandeered a returning "garbage" train, transporting the Guard into the city in a sneak attack. But the sudden appearance of hundreds of Trackers makes things look very bad for the plan... until Orion and the miners leap into the fray and cut a swath through the incoming horde, armed with their jet packs and mining tools. Airachnid attempts to kill Orion, slamming him into the train engine, and revealing the ''incredibly horrifying'' array of optics hidden in the back of her head. But her multi-scanning abilities give Orion a sudden idea as the train plows towards Sentinel's tower.

[[File:TFOneSentinelvsD16.jpg|left|thumb|300px|I will not be dictated to. I will not be threatened.]]
Sentinel, angered as D-16 once again attempts to rise up, is just about to blow the miner's head off when the train slams into his tower. Soundwave frees the prisoners and the fight spills across the city. Sentinel transforms into combat mode, but D-16 will not be deterred, the two launch into battle. Elita leaps into action, tackling Airachnid and attempting to take her prisoner (with only ''some'' gratuitously satisfying pummeling along the way). She drags the semi-conscious bot to one of Iacon's broadcast stations, and B makes a ''very'' over-enthusiastic entrance. Airachnid's memory banks are quickly scanned, and her memories of Sentinel's most recent meeting with the Quintessons are broadcast throughout the city, leading the populace to also join the fight.

Sentinel fares badly in his fight with D-16, and seeing his cowering before the Quintessons on dozens of screens, his empire in ruins, tries to flee, and when that fails, begs D-16 to spare him, claiming they can co-rule Cybertron. D-16 insists that Sentinel must die for his crimes, but Orion tries to convince his friend that they can be better than their enemies. D-16 violently disagrees, knocking his friend aside and readying the kill shot... only for Orion to leap in the path, the cannon blast tearing through his torso and sending him tumbling over the edge. D-16 grabs Orion's one good arm, horrified... ''that Orion would stop him from killing Sentinel''. With this betrayal, he vows he is ''done'' saving Orion from his mistakes and lets his dying friend plummet into Cybertron's depths. As Orion falls, D-16, insistent that there will be no more Primes, kills Sentinel by bisecting him with his hands. He then seizes Megatronus' cog from Sentinel's chest, replacing the one gifted to him by Trion, which transforms him into an even ''more'' battle-ready form. Declaring himself "Megatron", he commands the High Guard to destroy everything Sentinel built... in other words, what's left of the city.

[[File:One-Megs-Prime-face-to-face.jpg|thumb|300px|Goodbye... brother.]]
Meanwhile, the mortally wounded Orion falls through the planetary strata, which slides and shifts out of his way, until he finally reaches Cybertron's core. There, he encounters the spirits of the Primes as Trion announce that Primus has deemed him worthy for the future of Cybertron and to carry the Matrix of Leadership, reformatting Orion and restoring his spark to declare him the newest of the Primes: "Optimus Prime", before being sent rocketing back to the surface in a blaze of blue light.

Elita and B try and fail to stop Megatron's rampage, their former friend ready to kill them too, but Optimus smashes onto the scene. Megatron is incensed at this new betrayal both by his former friend ''and'' the Matrix itself, and launches himself at Optimus. During their fight, Optimus manifests an energy battle axe to fight against Megatron along with Starscream, Soundwave, and Shockwave before using it to destroy Megatron's new cannon, ultimately winning their fight. Unwilling to kill his oldest friend, Optimus reluctantly banishes Megatron and his new allies to the surface. Megatron seethes but decides that now is not the time, and takes his new army to the surface.

With the return of the Matrix of Leadership, Cybertron is restored to life: energon flows once again from the planet's core to the surface, and ''all'' of the cogless bots receive transformation cogs, becoming fully autonomous "[[Autobot]]s" who vow to defend Cybertron from any future Quintesson incursions. However, the Quintessons are not the only looming threat—though banished from Iacon, Megatron and his followers rechristen themselves the "[[Decepticon]]s" and swear revenge.
{{-}}

==Cast==
{{featuredcharacters
|h1=Miners
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax / Optimus Prime]] ([[Chris Hemsworth]])
*[[Megatron (One)|D-16 / Megatron]] ([[Brian Tyree Henry]])
*[[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]] ([[Scarlett Johansson]])
*[[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]] ([[Keegan-Michael Key]])
*[[Jazz (One)|Jazz]] ([[Evan Michael Lee]])
*[[Arcee (One)|Arcee]] ([[Jinny Chung]])
*[[Bluestreak (One)|Bluestreak]]
*[[Brawn (One)|Brawn]]
*[[Firestar (One)|Firestar]]<ref group=note name="uncredited">Denotes a character, or unidentified members of a group, who speaks, but has no credited voice actor. The performance was likely done by an ADR voice cast member.</ref>
*[[Hound (One)|Hound]]
*[[Huffer (One)|Huffer]]
*[[Ironhide (One)|Ironhide]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Mirage (One)|Mirage]]
*[[Moonracer (One)|Moonracer]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Prowl (One)|Prowl]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Ratchet (One)|Ratchet]]
*[[Red Alert (One)|Red Alert]]
*[[Sideswipe (One)|Sideswipe]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Smokescreen (One)|Smokescreen]]
*[[Sunstreaker (One)|Sunstreaker]]
*[[Wheeljack (One)|Wheeljack]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Windcharger (One)|Windcharger]]

|h2=[[High Guard]]
|c2=
*[[Starscream (One)|Starscream]] ([[Steve Buscemi]])
*[[Soundwave (One)|Soundwave]] ([[Jon Bailey]])
*[[Shockwave (One)|Shockwave]] ([[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]])
*[[Skywarp (One)|Skywarp]] (Josh Cooley)
*[[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]]
*[[Dirge (One)|Dirge]]
*[[Ramjet (One)|Ramjet]]
*[[Thrust (One)|Thrust]]
*[[Slipstream (One)|Slipstream]]
*[[Redwing (One)|Redwing]]

|h3=[[Thirteen#One film|Primes]]
|c3=
*[[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]] ([[Laurence Fishburne]])
*[[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]] ([[James Remar]])
*[[The Fallen#One film|Megatronus Prime]]
*[[Alchemist Prime#One film|Alchemist Prime]]
*[[Amalgamous Prime#One film|Amalgamous Prime]]
*[[Liege Maximo#One film|Liege Maximo]]
*[[Micronus Prime#One film|Micronus Prime]]
*[[Nexus Prime#One film|Nexus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Onyx Prime#One film|Onyx Prime]]
*[[Prima#One film|Prima Prime]]
*[[Quintus Prime#One film|Quintus Prime]]
*[[Solus Prime#One film|Solus Prime]]<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Vector Prime#One film|Vector Prime]]

|c4=
*[[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]] ([[Jon Hamm]])
*[[Airachnid (One)|Airachnid]] ([[Vanessa Liguori]])
*[[Quintesson High Commander]]
*[[Quintesson Soldier]]s
*[[Primus]]
*[[Tracker]]s<ref group=note name="uncredited"/>
*[[Guard (One)|Guards]] ([[Steve Blum]], Jason Konopisos-Alvarez)
*[[Announcer Bot]] (Steve Blum)
*[[Control Room Guys]] (Josh Cooley)

'''Racers'''
*[[Darkwing (One)|Darkwing]] ([[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]])
*[[Chromia (One)|Chromia]] (Jinny Chung)
*[[Injured Racer]] ([[Dillon Bryan]])

|nonumbering=true
}}
<references group=note/>

==Quotes==
"Let me guess. Chased out of the archive?" 
"Yeah. I had to jump out of a window this time. Almost died. It was wild." 
"And digging through ancient data is worth dying for?" 
"Yes, it is." 
"Oh, I need a new best friend..."
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' meet up before their shift.

"Are you ''crazy?!''" 
"Sure feels like it!"
:—'''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''' summing up their initial relationship.

"Every day. Every ''single day'' of my life. Has been... a lie! You just '''had''' to do it, didn't you?" 
"Me? What did I do?" 
"You just had to go to the surface, had to enter the Iacon 5000, you just '''HAD''' to break protocol!" 
"Who cares about protocol?" 
"'''I do'''! I care! Because nothing bad happens when you ''stay on protocol!''" 
"Sentinel Prime has been forcing us to work in the mines until our gears strip. And all the while he's been giving our Energon away to our greatest enemies!" 
"Uh, and what do you think he's gonna do to us when he finds out that we know?!" 
"I'm not ''thinking'' about what he's going to do, I'm thinking about what ''we're'' going to do." 
"That's the whole thing! You're never thinking about anything else, just yourself. Fantastic! Another Orion Pax 'master plan'! I can't wait to hear this!" 
"Don't you want to stop him?" 
"NO, '''I WANT TO KILL HIM!''' I wanna put Sentinel in chains and march him through the mines so everyone can see him for the '''false Prime''' that he is! I want him to suffer, and then to ''die'' in ''darkness.'' But we all know it doesn't matter what I want, ''right'', Pax? The fact is, we're just cogless bots. Right? We had limited options, and now... now we have ''none''."
:—The first cracks show in '''D-16''' and '''Orion Pax''''s friendship.

"What defines a Transformer is not the cog in his chest, but the spark in that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. My fellow Primes had that spark. And I see their strength in you. Take their cogs and access your full potential. Prima. Onyx. Alchemist. Micronus. Warriors of noble spirit, loyalty, strength. Their uniqueness enhanced by these. They were one. ''You'' are one. '''ALL''' are one!" 
"Wait. We have... You-- You gave us..." 
"The ability to change your world. How you choose to use that power is up to you."
:—'''Alpha Trion''' inaugurates '''Orion Pax''' and our heroes with the tried and true phrase.

'''Starscream''': Now, are you spies, or incompetent lackeys? 
'''Orion Pax''': We're not spies. 
'''Elita-1''': But he is incompetent.
:—Elita-1 on her boss-to-be

"Uh... why is he gagged?" 
"He wouldn't stop talking." 
"Even when he was unconscious?" 
"''ESPECIALLY'' WHEN HE WAS UNCONSCIOUS!"
:—'''Elita-1''' asks '''Shockwave''' about B-127's restraints.

"Hey! What are you doing?" 
"I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not cowering in some busted ship, playing king of the throne. I'm not pretending that I'm making a difference by throwing one punch and running away to hide. I found out that Sentinel is rotten today, and I'm going to make him pay for it! TODAY!" 
"You think you can insult me and just walk away? No one leaves unless I say so." 
"Is that right? Well, how can you say so... with my head in your teeth?"
:—'''Starscream''' and '''D-16''', right before he beats the living scrap out of him.

"Bear witness! ''This'' is the '''last''' time I show mercy! Decide right now! You can stay here in hiding, bowing before your pathetic leader, or follow me as we march on Iacon and I take down Sentinel '''ONCE AND FOR ALL!'''"
:—'''D-16''', as he usurps the High Guard's leadership from Starscream.

"Listen to me, I really want you to hear this. Are you listening?" 
[Orion looks up at Elita] 
"I'm better than you." 
"Yeah, okay, I'm hearing you." 
"I'm better than you in every way, ''except'' you have hope. You always have. You went back into the mine to rescue Jazz, you snuck up to the surface to find the Matrix of Leadership!" 
"Oh, yeah, and how'd that work out?" 
"My point is that your instincts tell you to break protocol for a ''reason''. This blind optimism that you have is why you make such bold and courageous choices. That are also extremely stupid." 
"First time giving a pep talk?" 
"You're inspiring. You can envision a better future that no one else can see. If you ever want to see B and D-16 again, that, ''that'' is the Orion Pax that we need right now. Listen to me. We can do this."
:—'''Elita-1''' attempts to give '''Orion Pax''' a pep-talk. ''Attempts'' to.

'''Soundwave''': "What is our first move?" 
'''Orion Pax''': ''(quietly and intensely)'' "We roll out." 
'''Skywarp''': "...what?!" 
'''Elita-1''': ''(quietly)'' "Louder!" 
'''Orion Pax''': "TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT!"
:—Orion realizes that dramatic one-liners aren't that dramatic if no one can hear them.

'''Jazz''': "Is that... Orion?" 
'''Orion Pax''': "Jazz." 
'''Jazz''': "Is it really you?" 
'''Orion''': "Yeah, I know I, uh, look a little... different." 
'''Jazz''': "Little? There's nothing 'little' about you." 
'''Ironhide''': "Uh- How is this possible?" 
'''Moonracer''': "Sentinel told us you died from your race injuries!" 
'''Orion''': "Sentinel is a '''liar'''." 
'''Arcee''': "Huh?" 
'''Ironhide''': "What?" 
'''Orion''': "Look, I know how this will sound coming from me. I was never the most... ''focused'' miner, but as you can see, everything is different now. I went to the surface. And I learned the truth. My friends, we were ''all'' born with transformation cogs. And then Sentinel, ''he stole them from us.'' '''He took away our ability to make our own decisions.''' '''''He stole our freedom.''''' But now, I'm offering you your first '''real choice'''. You can work a twenty-third shift and mine yourself to death, or fight back against Sentinel with me. Right now." 
'''Sideswipe''': "How are we supposed to do that?" 
'''Arcee''': "We can't fight. We don't have cogs." 
'''Orion''': "What defines a Transformer is not the cog in its chest, but the spark that resides in their core. A spark that gives you the will to make your world better. And that spark, Sentinel can ''never'' take from us." 
'''Jazz''': "There's not enough of us. We need an army." 
'''Orion''': "And we have one. Elita is bringing troops. We are not alone in this. If we want to be in control of our own destiny, we will have to fight for it. Now is the time for us to stand up. For ourselves. Stand up for this injustice! I promise you, this fight will be worth it. Follow me. Nothing can stop us when we stand together! Together as '''one!'''"
:—And with the miners chanting his name, Orion Pax delivers his first heroic speech.

''(Airachnid opens the back of her head to reveal'' dozens ''of eyes.)'' 
"You can't win, miner! ''I see '''everything!'''''" 
"That's right, you do... Except the tower we're about to crash into."
:—'''Airachnid''' gets creepy and '''Orion Pax''' gets an idea.

"You pathetic little twits! Did you really think that you could knock down everything I've built?!" 
"It's over, Sentinel! You can't escape the truth!" 
"What truth? That I plucked the cogs from your newborn chests? Forced you to mine so that I could pay off the Quintessons and live like a king? None of that matters! Because the truth... Is. ''WHAT. I. '''MAKE IT!'''''"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' teaches '''Orion Pax''' that he won't go down without a fight.

"What's wrong, D-16? Rise up!"
:—'''Sentinel Prime''' mockingly gives D-16 his future slogan.

"I'm ''done'' saving you."
:—'''D-16''' lets his ''former'' friend fall.

"The Age of Primes has ended! '''NO MORE FALSE PROPHETS'''! Follow me, and you will ''never again'' be ''deceived!'' '''RISE UP!''' ''I'' will lead us all into the future! ''I...'' '''AM...''' '''''MEGATRON!'''''"
:—With the death of Sentinel Prime, '''D-16''' renames himself as '''Megatron'''

"''Orion Pax.'' Your noble sacrifice for the greater good has proven you worthy in the eyes of Primus. He entrusts in you the future of Cybertron, and... the Matrix of Leadership! '''Arise...''' '''''Optimus Prime.'''''"
:—Speaking for Primus, '''Alpha Trion''' and the Primes rebuild Orion Pax.

"We could have built the future ''together!"'' 
"I'll build it myself. After I tear down everyone '''''IN MY WAY!'''''"
:-'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' set the stage for eons of conflict to come.

"We were given the power to change our world, and you chose to destroy it. Just like Sentinel. You have betrayed Cybertron and its citizens, and you betrayed... ''me.'' Go. Take the High Guard, and leave. You are banished from Iacon. It didn't have to end this way." 
"This isn't over... ''Prime.''"
:—'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Megatron''' share one final exchange.

"This is the greatest day of my life... I get to work for the ''government''!"
:—'''B-127''' knows a good benefits package when he sees one.

"And now we stand here together as one, proving we all have the power to transform; to become who we were destined to be; to right wrongs; to make our world better. Because here, freedom and autonomy are the right of all sentient beings. Here, all are truly ''Autobots''. This message is a warning to all Quintessons: If you dare return to Cybertron, the Autobots will be waiting. ''I'' will be waiting. I... am ''Optimus Prime''."
:—'''Optimus Prime''' gives his first dramatic ending monologue...

"Sentinel, the betrayer, is dead. But his death has given life to a new enemy...a stronger enemy... a ''personal'' enemy. We will ''not'' be blinded by his deception! We are the ones who are... '''DECEPTICONS! ''RISE UP!'''''"
:—...and '''Megatron''' gives the coming darkness its new name.

==Continuity notes==
The movie that would ultimately become ''Transformers One'' entered preliminary development in early 2015, when the project was first pitched as part of a writer's room that would lay out a number of sequels, prequels, and spinoff films that would turn the ongoing [[live-action film series|slate of live-action movies]] into a proper "cinematic universe", an attempt to cash in on the then-meteoric hype of the {{w|Marvel Cinematic Universe}}. Like pretty much all the other "cinematic universes" pitched at around this time, this ambitious vision was not to be: following the box-office bomb that was ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight]]'', most of these projects were shelved, while others were heavily reworked—perhaps most infamously, ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'' was recut into a film that contradicted ''The Last Knight'' and its depictions of Bumblebee fighting in [[World War II]], shifting the film and [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|its sequel]] into a more ambiguous "soft reboot" that only loosely connect to the five Bay films.

It appears that a similar conceptual drift occurred over the course of ''Transformers One'''s production. When the film entered full production in mid-2020, ''One'' was said to be "separate and apart" from the ongoing live-action films, though at the time just ''how'' distinct the film would be from its predecessors remained a mystery.<ref name="cooleyreveal" /> When later asked if the film was a prequel to the live-action films, a reboot, or its own universe, director Josh Cooley answered "yes" to all of the above.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref> While a few details and visual nods—such as Bumblebee's original name of "B-127", the function of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in which it dissolves into dust if it deems someone unworthy to wield it and the incorporation of a closing monologue delivered by Optimus—referenced the live-action films, the film otherwise draws heavily upon the mythology first laid down in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity family]] and has gone on to inform just about every major ''Transformers'' universe afterwards, particularly in its depiction of Orion Pax and D-16 as former allies fighting against a corrupt Cybertronian government.

As the film's release date drew closer, multiple comments from the film's creatives indicated that the filmmakers viewed the movie as something entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films. In July, Josh Cooley stated that the film was set in a "new Transformers continuity"<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "Hey little nerd in my profile picture, what if I told you someday you'll create a new Transformers continuity, that begins earlier than anything you've seen on the Transformers lore timeline, with the greatest crew and cast ever assembled?"|link= https://x.com/CooleyUrFaceOff/status/1817235351095894510?t=Oju3b9v53cYIHlH4MLEsXg |name=Josh Cooley|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=7|day=27}}</ref>; in another interview from a week before release, di Bonaventura ultimately admitted that ''One'' didn't fit into the chronology of the live-action films, and described ''One'' and the live-action films as "two universes" that would be "[kept] separate".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> These statements were ultimately borne out by the movie itself, which featured multiple plot points that are pretty much irreconcilable with the live-action films—early on, the film establishes that [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] is long dead, negating his appearance in ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; additionally, the movie ends with the newly christened Megatron killing Sentinel Prime, leaving no wiggle room for the events of ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]'' to occur. As a result, the wiki has opted to treat ''One'' and any potential sequels as a new [[continuity family]] entirely separate from the ongoing live-action films.

==Transformers references==
* As with pretty much every major ''Transformers'' project since 2010, ''Transformers One'' is the latest interpretation of the modernized ''Transformers'' backstory that originated with [[Binder of Revelation|Hasbro's internal design documents]] and was first laid down in ''[[Transformers: Exodus]]''—the story of [[Primus]], the [[Thirteen|thirteen original Transformers]], and the origins of Optimus Prime and Megatron as former friends who fought against inequality on pre-war Cybertron until Megatron's extremism drove them apart. Notably, this version of the story portrays both Orion and Megatron as [[energon]] miners on the bottom of Cybertron's caste system—most other interpretations have instead depicted Orion as a somewhat higher-ranking data clerk. While other tellings of the story have Orion advocating for non-violent social change, this take on the origin ends with Orion Pax working alongside the future Decepticons to directly overthrow the reigning Prime, evoking [[IDW Publishing|IDW]]'s ''[[The Transformers: Autocracy|Autocracy]]'' miniseries.
* Many contemporary works of pre-war ''Transformers'' fiction have established that pre-war Cybertronians organized themselves under a job-based [[Functionism|caste system]], with miners and other manual laborers occupying the lowest ranks of Transformer society. ''One'' features a very simplified version of this hierarchy, where Cybertronians without transformation cogs are an oppressed underclass while other Transformers receive additional rights and job opportunities.
* With the exception of D-16—whose origins as a low-ranking miner date back to IDW's ''[[The Transformers: Megatron Origin|Megatron Origin]]''—all of the other miners shown in the film go on to join the Autobots, while the forerunners of the Decepticons are depicted as ex-members of the elite [[High Guard]]. This specific class divide dates back to the ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'' episode "[[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4]]" and, to a lesser extent, "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]", which explained the war between the Autobots and Decepticons as an entrenched conflict between civilian laborers and military robots.
* All the character designs are far closer to their Generation 1 designs (both the cartoon and the original toys) than the previous films. Characters also earn their iconic design traits in pivotal scenes, such as Optimus Prime's [[Energon-axe]] and [[mouthplate]], or Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. In the final scene, many miners gain details to match their Generation 1-selves even closer after they receive their cogs; in particular, Arcee gains her pink visor from ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''. Starscream, Soundwave, and Megatron's newly applied insignias in the post-credits scene are also in the same place as their original counterparts, with Starscream's even being upside-down!
* Optimus Prime's original identity of "Orion Pax" is a name taken from the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". Notably, the cartoon's version of Orion Pax was also a manual laborer, although the film does seemingly pay homage to Orion Pax's other famous job by having him sneak into the Cybertronian Archives at the very beginning of the film. D-16 takes [[Dion (G1)|Dion]]'s place as his best friend and co-worker.
* The 'bot who will one day be known as "Megatron" initially goes by the name "D-16", a moniker lifted from ''Exodus'' and itself based on the [[TakaraTomy]] ID number of the [[Megatron (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original Megatron toy]]. D-16's original body—with a black, dome-shaped helmet and yellow eyes—references Megatron's [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel Comics appearance]], which in turn was based on concept art for an unproduced prototype version of the original Takara Micro Change figure. Much like Orion Pax, his modern gladiator job is paid homage in his fight with Starscream.
* B-127 is heavily based on his [[Bumblebee (Movie)|live-action film series counterpart]]: his helmet design and blasters bear a resemblance to his appearance in those films; additionally, his overly-talkative nature is a meta-gag about his "future" self being best known for not being able to speak. The name "B-127" derives from the [[Bumblebee (film)|''Bumblebee'' movie]], where, much like this film, he did not receive the name "Bumblebee" on Cybertron. B-127's battle mask resembles his [[Bumblebee (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart's]] [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#The Transformers|original toy]]; towards the end of the film, he fights with a pair of "knife hands" seemingly based on ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]'' Bumblebee's melee weapons.
* In general, Elita-1 doesn't draw upon as many specific references as her co-stars, although her purplish-pink color scheme and motorcycle [[alternate mode]] may be a reference to her [[Elita-One (Movie)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' design]]. Notably, of the four main protagonists, Elita's the only one who ''doesn't'' have an alternate alias—especially odd given that her [[Elita One (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] originally went by "Ariel" in the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". (This exclusion is perhaps less odd when one considers that subsequent to 1985, [[Disney]] secured a near-stranglehold on toys named "{{w|Ariel (The Little Mermaid)|Ariel}}".)
* Sentinel Prime is based on [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]], the former leader of Cybertron in the [[Aligned continuity family|"Aligned" continuity]]. Like that version of the character, this take on Sentinel Prime is explicitly a "false" Prime who never carried the Matrix of Leadership, and a puppet ruler who was appointed to the position by the Quintessons. Design-wise, this take on Sentinel draws from his "Aligned" counterpart, his [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|''Dark of the Moon'' appearance]], and has details from his [[Sentinel Prime (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]] and the thematically similar character, [[Nominus Prime]]. Sentinel's battle mode is inspired by his [[Apex Armor (G1)|Apex Armor]] from the ''Megatron Origin'' comic. He also has his [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]]'s glorious chin, as well as carrying on his 'arrogant jerkwad' personality rather than the more stoic attitude of other Sentinels. His double-bladed weapon takes specific inspiration from DOTM Sentinel's [[Primax Blade]], now with the additional ability to retract one or both of its blades when required.
* Airachnid is derived from the ''Prime'' [[Airachnid (Prime)|character of the same name]]—a notable inclusion given the primarily G1-based main cast—sharing a similar design, alternate mode as a helicopter, and antagonistic personality. Role-wise, however, she draws from her [[Airachnid (G1)|IDW 2005 counterpart]] being a subordinate of the [[Starscream_(G1)/2005_IDW_continuity|shady sovereign ruler of Cybertron]].
* Like Sentinel Prime, the Quintessons are primarily based on their depiction in the "Aligned" lorebook [[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|''The Covenant of Primus'']], which depicted them as shadowy manipulators who ruled Cybertron and exploited its natural resources through a proxy government; notably, the Quintessons in the ''Covenant'' helped maintain their hold on Transformer civilization by withholding the power to transform from the general populace. In a notable deviation from traditional ''Transformers'' lore, the bodies and starships of the film's Quintessons appear to be organic in nature.
** It is ambiguous to what the origin of the Quintessons actually is. In most modern media, the Quintessons are the renegade creations of Quintus Prime (such as in Transformers: EarthSpark). While they do share some similarities, such as part of their names, multiple appendages, and their coloration, nothing is ever stated that Quintus Prime created them. They aren't the creators of the Cybertronian race like in media before Primus was created. It is most likely that the Quintessons are simply an alien race unrelated to the Cybertronians.
* Primus' design seen in the hologram Orion plays is largely based on the [[IP infringement|"third party"]] 01 Studio Seed figure, itself inspired by the oft-referenced [[:File:UltimateGuidePrimus.jpg|original character model]] for his planet-body from [[DK Publishing|DK]]'s [[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|''The Ultimate Guide'']]. His head and chest are closer to his ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' appearance, also pulling a simplified version of [[Primus#Cybertron|that toy]]'s transformation scheme. Primus' willing sacrifice of his locomotion and birthing of the Thirteen pulls from his appearance in the eponymous ''Covenant of Primus''.
* The Thirteen are similarly based on their "Aligned"' incarnations for their backstory and designs. Nexus, Megatronus, Solus, and Alchemist Prime also draw from their ''[[:File:NexusPrimeflankedbyotherPrimes.jpg|Timelines]]'', ''[[:File:Megatronus.jpeg|Titans Return]]'', ''[[:File:SolusPrime-PowerofthePrimes.jpg|Power of the Primes]]'', and ''[[:File:TheCitizen IaconusCitizens.jpg|Cyberverse]]'' designs, respectively, while Vector Prime is based squarely on his original ''Cybertron'' design.
* Megatronus is also inspired by his ''Revenge of the Fallen'' design, including his face being based on the Decepticon symbol (or vice versa in-universe), although it is far more obvious in this movie, coincidentally evoking [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]]. Megatronus' face becoming the in-universe inspiration for the Decepticon symbol reflects the real life story of [[Soundwave (G1)|Generation 1 Soundwave]]'s face inspiring the iconic symbol.
* Alpha Trion's abilities to recreate and store memories as information calls back to the archival role of his [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]. His alternate mode being a leonine beast with a unicorn-esque horn is a direct homage to his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' toy]], itself based on his [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Toys|cancelled BotCon toy]].
* The mysterious [[Thirteenth Prime]] is replaced with Zeta Prime, who also takes [[Prima]]'s role as leader and Matrix-bearer, though Prima himself is still present. Zeta's design is also based on "Aligned" Sentinel Zeta Prime, as he appears in the ''War for Cybertron'' video game.
* The Thirteen are not actually referred to as the "Thirteen", but rather the Primes or the "Council of Elders", a term that originated in ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''. This is likely because it would contradict Sentinel's narrative painting himself as a fourteenth Prime. Notably, none of the archives or displays of the Thirteen include Sentinel.
* The cameo miners mostly draw from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)/cast#Season 1|1984 Autobot cast of the original cartoon]], along with the [[Female Autobots]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], and recolors such as [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]. The background High Guard characters, meanwhile, are based on the endless Starscream recolors that have appeared throughout ''Transformers'', commonly known as the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]]. Notably, one of their helmet variations is based on [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity#Cybertron cartoon|''Cybertron'' Starscream]]'s, while some Seekers including [[Thundercracker (One)|Thundercracker]] sport triple-barreled weapons on their arms that resemble the [[neutron assault rifle]] from ''Fall of Cybertron'' – specifically the split-in-half configuration seen in the [[Starscream (WFC)/toys#Generations|''Fall of Cybertron'' Starscream toy]] and its redecoes, even including a gear-shaped detail behind the barrels echoing the gears on the toy's accessories.
* Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream/the Seekers, and the cogged versions of Ironhide, Ratchet, and Arcee have details based on their ''Bumblebee'' designs.
*The jet modes of Starscream/the Seekers are also based on ''Bumblebee'', while Soundwave's vehicle mode is based on his [[Soundwave (ROTF)/toys#SS83|''Studio Series Bumblebee'' toy]]. Shockwave's alternate mode resembles his [[Shockwave (WFC)|''War for Cybertron'' counterpart]], and both he and Starscream/the Seekers have details from their [[War for Cybertron: Siege|''Siege'' toys]].
*When Orion "transforms" to run away from the guards, he moves his limbs in a way that evokes [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Toys|his original toy]]'s transformation.
* The Matrix causing Energon to flow and 'killing' the planet when lost calls back to the [[AllSpark]].
* When discussing their mining ability, Elita says Orion "[doesn't] have the touch or the power," a reference to the [[The Touch|beloved song]] from ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* The Iacon 5000 derives from the Marvel UK ''The Transformers'' [[Source:Darn 'n' Blast#Issue 326|issue 326's "Darn 'n' Blast" letter page]]. Many of the racers in the Iacon 5000 are characters from Generation 1 and ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]]'', with their colors and vehicle modes next to their names on the leaderboard, though they do not correspond to specific models except for the miners, Darkwing, and Chromia.
** Racers based on their Generation 1 counterparts include [[Mirage (One)|Mirage]], [[Clampdown (One)|Clampdown]], [[Silverbolt (One)|Silverbolt]], "[[Deadend (One)|Deadend]]", [[Slingshot (One)|Slingshot]], [[Cliffjumper (One)|Cliffjumper]], [[Dragstrip (One)|Dragstrip]], [[Swerve (One)|Swerve]], [[Powerglide (One)|Powerglide]], [[Jetstorm (One)|Jetstorm]], [[Windblade (One)|Windblade]], [[Afterburner (One)|Afterburner]], [[Blurr (One)|Blurr]], [[Fireflight (One)|Fireflight]], [[Cordon (One)|Cordon]], [[Breakdown (One)|Breakdown]], [[Swindle (One)|Swindle]], [[Tailgate (One)|Tailgate]], [[Lightspeed (One)|Lightspeed]], "[[Spinout (One)|Spinout]]", [[Greasepit (One)|Greasepit]], [[Scattershot (One)|Scattershot]], [[Inferno (One)|Inferno]], [[Motormaster (One)|Motormaster]], and "[[Hotrod (One)|Hotrod]]".
** Racers based on their ''Generation 2'' counterparts include [[Blowout (One)|Blowout]], [[High Beam (One)|High Beam]], [[Double Clutch (One)|Double Clutch]], [[Meanstreak (One)|Meanstreak]], [[Motormouth (One)|Motormouth]], [[Speedstream (One)|Speedstream]], "[[Roadrocket (One)|Roadrocket]]", [[Jolt (One)|Jolt]], and [[Staxx (One)|Staxx]].
** [[Override (One)|Override]] and [[Tankor (One)|Tankor]] are based on their ''[[Override (Cybertron)|Cybertron]]'' and ''[[Tankor (BM)|Beast Machines]]'' counterparts, respectively.
**Racers that are only named through dialogue are [[Tailwind (One)|Tailwind]], [[Strafe (One)|Strafe]] (spelled "Streak" in the Spanish subtitles), [[Skyfire (One)|Skyfire]], and original characters [[Thunderglide]] and [[Behemoth]]. Phew!
* After being knocked off the train and stranded on the surface, Elita-1 calls Orion, D-16, and B-127 a bunch of "idiot [[GoBots|go-bots]]".
* The film's themes, "Resting Place of the Primes" and "The Fall", includes a leitmotif from the main theme of ''Transformers: Prime'', which was also composed by Brian Tyler. "The Fall" also plays a motif lifted from ''The Transformers: The Movie'''s "[[Death of Optimus Prime]]" in a different key. More specifically, the motif is from when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] flatlines and dies. Fitting, as "The Fall" plays when Orion Pax is dropped into Cybertron's [[core]] and Optimus Prime is born. Incidentally, this scene and the music are also quite similar to when Megatron fatally shoots Bumblebee in the ''Transformers: Prime'' series finale "[[Deadlock (episode)|Deadlock]]".
*D-16's eye color gradually shifting from yellow to red upon declaring himself "Megatron" is similar to how his [[Megatron (WFC)|Aligned counterpart]]'s eye color changed from blue to red after being denied the rank of Prime as seen in the flashbacks of "[[One Shall Rise, Part 3]]".
*The part of "The Fall" that plays when Megatron rips Sentinel in half also includes a leitmotif from [[Transformers: Fall of Cybertron|Fall of Cybertron's]] "The Great Exodus".
* The notion of the Matrix actively rejecting an "unworthy" candidate and disintegrating was a plot point in ''Revenge of the Fallen''.
* Alpha Trion announces "All are one!" as he bequeaths the main quartet their new transformation cogs, a reference to the classic slogan "[['Til all are one]]!" originating from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* An empty Matrix chamber is visible behind Orion's chest window after receiving his cog, even before finding the actual Matrix.
* The throne Starscream sits on is loosely based on the crown his [[Starscream (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]] wore during his coronation in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.<ref>[https://youtu.be/fo7EwIlSNAs?si=8y1UWHCLv46WKzE7&t=190 Brian Tyree Henry & Josh Cooley Dissect The Evolution Of Megatron | Transformers One Behind The Shot]</ref>
*Soundwave scans Orion's electrical impulses to check if he is lying, a rarely referenced ability from his [[Soundwave (G1)|original toy's bio]].
*Shockwave's eye flickers when he speaks, just as it did in the original Generation 1 cartoon. Similarly, Optimus Prime's faceplate bobs up and down when he speaks.
* Starscream has a normal-sounding voice (for Steve Buscemi, anyway) when he first appears, but after D-16 crushes his [[voice box]] during their duel, his voice becomes shriller and scratchier in the style of [[Chris Latta]]'s portrayal of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] in the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]].
*Shockwave and Elita have a small rivalry, reflecting their Generation 1 versions in Elita's introduction episode, "[[The Search for Alpha Trion]]".
* Soundwave orders the High Guard to "[[Decepticon Mini-Cassette|eject]]" when descending on Sentinel's tower.
[[File:TFoneOrionJump.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Let my people go!]]
* During the battle in Sentinel Prime's tower, Orion leaps into the air and shoots one of the Trackers, with his midair pose homaging Optimus Prime's famous midair shooting pose from ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Megatron is the 'bot who shoots Orion and leaves him on the brink of death until he is resurrected as Optimus Prime in what is likely a reference to the ''The Transformers'' episode "War Dawn". However, the specific framing of the scene—in which Megatron shoots Orion and drops him into the depths of the planet, only for him to find the Matrix and return as Optimus—is, however coincidentally, nearly identical to the events of [[Transformation (issue)|issue #9]] of ''Autocracy''. Orion finding the Matrix in the planet's core also evokes the climax of the ''War for Cybertron'' games.
* The fatal wounds Orion Pax sustained from D-16 before his descent into Cybertron's core strongly resemble the wounds Optimus Prime sustained at the end of the ''The Transformers'' episode "[[Dark Awakening (episode)|Dark Awakening]]".
* Megatron disposes of Sentinel Prime in the same manner that his [[Megatron (Movie)|live-action counterpart]] killed [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]]—by bisecting the bot with his bare hands. Similarly, this is also how the [[Rainmaker]]s disposed of Sentinel in the [[2019 IDW continuity]].
* When both Orion Pax and Sentinel Prime die, [[aggressive depigmentation|their bodies turn grey]].
* Orion is caught by a beam and brought to Primus to be reformatted into Optimus Prime, much like how Megatron was caught by [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] and reformatted into [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]].
* "Arise, Optimus Prime", intones Alpha Trion as Orion receives the Matrix, evoking the climax of ''The Transformers: The Movie'', in which a ghostly Optimus Prime said the same to [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] as he transformed into Rodimus Prime.
* When the energy burst from Optimus' return to the surface blows Megatron off his feet, he crashes to the ground in a [https://www.reddit.com/r/transformers/s/QRpmFJRCXz pose] identical to his G1 self after Optimus threw him off during their duel in ''The Transformers: The Movie.''
* Megatron using a long piece of sharp, orange shrapnel to attack Optimus also comes from the iconic fight in ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus using a defeated Shockwave's cannon to attack another enemy is a fighting move Optimus made in ''Dark of the Moon''.
* After Optimus and Megatron's fight concludes, Megatron is shown with "tear stains" of mech fluid under his eyes, precisely matching the fluid-streaks the original Megatron had running down ''his'' face after his fight with Optimus in ''The Transformers: The Movie''. In ''One'', Megatron then declares "This isn't over, Prime," mirroring his line from ''The Movie'': "It's over, Prime."
* When restoring Cybertron's Energon supply, Optimus holds the Matrix in the same pose Hot Rod holds it when transforming into Rodimus at the end of ''The Transformers: The Movie''.
* Optimus' concluding narration is presented as a "message" being sent into space, continuing the recurring concept of the ''Transformers'' films ending in such a way, introduced in the [[Transformers (film)|first live-action movie]].
*Optimus' transformation during his ending monologue is accompanied by the original transformation noise.
* In the post-credits scene, Megatron brands the Decepticon insignia onto his troops much like his [[Megatron (Animated)|''Animated'' counterpart]] did in "[[A Bridge Too Close, Part I]]". Megatron also orders the Decepticons to "[[Roll out#Transformers_Animated|rise up]]", quoting his ''Animated'' counterpart who originated the phrase "transform and rise up" in "[[Megatron Rising - Part 2]]".
* While the newly christened Decepticons fire into the sky, the glow of the laser beams shines on Megatron's insignia in a way that homages the metallic effect of the [[:File:TF-G1-HD-Logo-Evil-Decepticon.png|original Decepticon ''The Transformers'' logo]], and many a [[scene transition]].

==Real-life references==
* One of B-127's "friends" is named [https://youtu.be/Dd7FixvoKBw?t=104 A-A-Tron].
* As Orion Pax and D-16 approach the finish line in the Iacon 5000, the announcer quotes verbatim Joe Starkey's call of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play_(American_football) The Play] from the 1982 Cal-Stanford game. "The most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heart-rending, exciting, thrilling finish in the history of—" It can be assumed he would say "The Iacon 5000" in place of "college football," had Chromia not sped past to win the race.

==Errors==
* The history record about Primus, the Primes, and the Matrix that Orion Pax watches in the archives is recorded by [[Laurence Fishburne|a voice]] that clearly belongs to Alpha Trion. Yet, the events described in the history record include the disappearance of the Matrix, which happened after the Primes were killed and Alpha Trion went offline. So how could Alpha Trion have made that recording when he was lying comatose in a cave during that time?
* Many of the miners based on recognizable characters appear multiple times in the background or between shots, with many, such as Ironhide, having numerous occupations and being in multiple places at the same time.
* The High Guard has the same issue. Slipstream is shown to have been captured by the Death Trackers, but is later shown to take part in the attack on Sentinel's tower. Thundercracker is sliced in half by Airachnid, but is present the rest of the film.
* Mirage, with the colors and land-based vehicle mode of his [[Mirage (G1)|Generation 1 counterpart]], appears on the leaderboard of the Iacon 5000, but one of the cogless miners is clearly based on Generation 1 Mirage.
* Chromia is the racer that wins the Iacon 5000, but a bot that better resembles [[Chromia (G1)|Generation 1 Chromia]] appears as a miner too. Production designer Jason Scheier would confirm the miner bot is just a bot that resembles Chromia, while the one in the Iacon 5000 is the 'real' Chromia.
* One of the cogless miners is clearly meant to be [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], with a black crest, red pelvis, and red pips on his shoulders. However, the scene after the Iacon 5000 in Iacon's medical center has a voice on the intercom paging a "Dr. Ratchet".
* Airachnid's legs are floating behind her back in her conversation with Sentinel Prime after he murders Alpha Trion.
* When Starscream interrogates the main quartet in the High Guard lair, Slipstream's hands are [https://www.reddit.com/r/Transformemes/comments/1gw87v2/something_feels_missing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 positioned] as if she is holding a blaster but the blaster itself is not present at all, resulting in a rather awkward pose.
* The incriminating clips of Sentinel replayed from Airachnid's mind reuse clips from previous scenes of the movie instead of being from Airachnid's point of view. She wasn't exaggerating when she said "I see ''everything''"!
* Additionally, one of Sentinel’s lines in Airachnid’s mind isn’t present in the scene it should come from; her memory of the meeting with the Quintessons includes Sentinel saying “I’m working my miners as hard as I can”, a line that’s never said in the original scene.
* During the long take of Optimus Prime using his Energon axe to fight off Megatron, Starscream, Shockwave, and Soundwave at the end of the film, Soundwave's shoulder cannon is on his left shoulder. In every other shot of the film, he is depicted with the cannon over his right shoulder like his G1 counterpart usually does.

==Music==
A score album, ''[[Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]]'', features the original music by composer [[Brian Tyler]] and was released concurrently with the film. It notably repurposes a leitmotif from his work on [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|''Transformers: Prime'']] into this film's main theme. The score also has other Transformers references, both in the melodies and titles of the tracks. The composer, under his electronic side project "Are We Dreaming", also produced the end credits song, "If I Fall", featuring rappers [[W:Quavo|Quavo]] (of Migos fame) and [[W:Ty Dolla Sign|Ty Dolla $ign]].

Canadian DJ {{w|Excision_(musician)|Excision}} released the dubstep song "Together As One", which samples numerous lines from the film's cast, as part of the film's marketing campaign. Many of the lines in this song would go unused in the film's final cut. Chinese artist {{w|Yuqi}} released the song "ONE" as part of the film's Chinese marketing campaign. Neither song is present in the film.

==Reception==
{{quote|Just when you’re about to give up on stories that endlessly repackage the same trademarked properties, along comes a movie like Josh Cooley’s “Transformers One.” As its subtly confident title suggests, it carries itself as if nobody had ever made a Transformers movie before.|Matt Zoller Seitz|[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/transformers-one-film-review Rogerebert.com]}}

While [[Michael Bay]]'s ''Transformers'' films were notable for their record-breaking profits despite mixed to overwhelmingly negative reviews, ''Transformers One'' faced the opposite problem. While [[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|the previous theatrical ''Transformers'' film]] met with mixed reviews, ''Transformers One'' enjoyed an almost universally positive reception from both film critics and casual moviegoers. Critics praised the film's visual design, its nuanced approach to characterization and worldbuilding, and the performances of the film's voice actors, with many singling out Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry for their portrayals of Orion Pax and D-16. As of October 2024, its RottenTomatoes rating sits at 89% positive critical reviews and 98% positive audience reviews.

In the United States and Canada, ''Transformers One'' was originally projected to gross between 30 and 40 million dollars on its opening weekend. Ultimately, the film only made 24.6 million dollars, and finished second in the box office behind ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}'' (which had been released ''two weeks'' prior) in a surprise upset. <ref> [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/box-office-can-transformers-one-borrow-a-page-from-spider-verse-and-recover-1236009559/ "Box Office: Can Transformers One Borrow a Page From Spider-Verse and Recover?"] </ref> In its second weekend, the film lost out out to rival animated robot movie ''{{w|The Wild Robot}}'', and ultimately took in a mere 9.2 million dollars after suffering a 62.8% drop. <ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/09/box-office-megalopolis-the-wild-robot-1236101618/ "'Wild Robot' Powers To Third Best September Animated Pic Debut With $35M; 'Megalopolis' Collapses With $4M & D+ CinemaScore; 'Saturday Night' Alive In Limited Release -- Box Office Update" </ref>

==Development timeline==
[[File:Transformers-One-Teaser-Poster.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''There can be miracles when you believe Though hope is frail, it's hard to kill Who knows what miracles you can achieve When you believe, somehow you will You will when you believe'']]
*March 27, 2015 — As part of the development of ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]'', [[Paramount Pictures]] negotiates with [[Akiva Goldsman]], hiring him to create a "writer's room" to build a cinematic universe.<ref name="goldsman">[https://deadline.com/2015/03/transformers-akiva-goldsman-paramount-sequels-spinoffs-1201400027/ Paramount Enlisting Akiva Goldsman To Ramp Up 'Transformers' Output] on deadline.com</ref> Among the writers hired are ''Ant-Man and the Wasp'' scribes [[Andrew Barrer]] and [[Gabriel Ferrari]], who pitch the concept of an animated ''Transformers'' prequel set in the [[Live-action film series|live-action series universe]].<ref name="barrerferrari">[https://deadline.com/2015/05/transformers-ant-man-andrew-barrer-gabriel-ferrari-cybertron-1201433402/ 'Ant-Man' Scribes Andrew Barrer & Gabriel Ferrari Join 'Transformers' Writers Room] on Deadline</ref>
*December 20, 2018 — Following the release of ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]'', [[Lorenzo di Bonaventura]] hints in an interview that the animated prequel is still in the works.<ref>[https://www.metro.us/will-there-be-a-bumblebee-2-whats-the-future-for-the-transformers-universe-heres-what-its-producer-told-us/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura interview for Metro USA]</ref>
*April 29, 2020 — Director [[Josh Cooley]] (''Toy Story 4'') is reported to have been brought into the project to oversee a final draft, which is said to be "separate and apart" from the live-action films.<ref name="cooleyreveal" />
*May 18, 2021 — [[Allspark Pictures]] President [[Greg Mooradian]] credits the animated ''Transformers'' film on his Linkedin page with a 2023 release.<ref>[https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-mooradian-4a5062200/ Greg Mooradian's Linkedin:] "TRANSFORMERS (Animated Feature), with Oscar-winner Josh Cooley directing (2023 release)"</ref>
*May 24, 2021 — Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]] confirms the animated feature is in development, and will be released at some point after ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|Transformers: Rise of the Beasts]]''.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/05/24/tfw2005-coverage-of-49th-j-p-morgan-conference-434088 TFW2005 Coverage Of 49th J.P. Morgan Conference]</ref>
*January 21, 2022 — Paramount announces an untitled animated Transformers movie will be released on July 19, 2024.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-release-date/ Collider: New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Release Date Set For 2024]</ref>
*April 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura reveals that the entire film takes place on Cybertron, and the setting explores how they begin to question the hierarchy of how their society has gotten stratified, and how the common man doesn't have the voice that they want to have.<ref name=collider2023>[https://collider.com/transformers-animated-movie-characters-plot-cybertron-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ Here’s What the New Animated ‘Transformers’ Movie Is About (Exclusive)]</ref>
*April 21, 2023 — A day after the previous interview, di Bonaventura confirms [[Industrial Light & Magic]]'s involvement as the film's animation studio, bringing the company back to the franchise for the first time since ''Bumblebee''.<ref>[https://collider.com/new-transformers-animated-movie-ilm-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ The New 'Transformers' Animated Movie Is Partnering With an Industry Giant for the CGI (Exclusive)]/</ref>
*April 27, 2023 — The first members of the film's voice cast are revealed, consisting of [[Chris Hemsworth]] as Optimus Prime, [[Brian Tyree Henry]] as Megatron, [[Scarlett Johansson]] as Elita, [[Keegan-Michael Key]] as Bumblebee, [[Jon Hamm]] as Sentinel Prime, and [[Laurence Fishburne]] as Alpha Trion.<ref>[https://variety.com/2023/film/news/transformers-animated-prequel-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235596692/ ‘Transformers’ Animated Prequel Sets Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and More Voice Cast]</ref>
*May 24, 2023 — Paramount moves the film's release date to September 13, 2024.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2023/05/transformers-one-release-date-pushed-by-paramount-1235379167/ ‘Transformers One’: Paramount Pushes Date For Animated Feature]</ref>
*June 7, 2023 — di Bonaventura teases how the film stands out from previous entries in the franchise, praises Chris Hemsworth's casting as Optimus Prime, and mentions a vocal transition from Hemsworth's voice to [[Peter Cullen]]'s as the character for audiences to witness. [[Steve Desmond]] and [[Michael Sherman]] (''Knock at the Cabin'') were revealed to be additional writers for the film, but where uncredited when the final credit came in.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-comments/ 'Transformers One' Producer Is Already Hyped for Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime]</ref>
*June 15, 2023 — Scarlett Johansson discusses the film's animation and praises Cooley as director.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqG5mlRxzs Scarlett Johansson Says Transformers One Looks So Cool]</ref> Chris Hemsworth later brings details on voicing Optimus Prime for the film and his reasoning he joined the project through his love of the script. He confirms that he will not use his regular voice for the character.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWrsvSzWHoE Chris Hemsworth's Optimus Prime Sadly Won't Be Australian in Transformers One]</ref>
*July 20, 2023 — di Bonaventura confirms Optimus Prime and Megatron in the film will be depicted under their Orion Pax and D-16 identities.<ref>[https://onetakenews.com/2023/07/20/lorenzo-di-bonaventura-transformers-one/ Lorenzo di Bonaventura Teases Upcoming Film ‘Transformers: One’: “It’s Something I’ve Wanted To Do For A Long Time” (Exclusive)]</ref>
*December 15, 2023 — Keegan-Michael Key mentions his voice for Bumblebee is closer to his regular speaking voice.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLM71B5xmFY Transformers One: Keegan-Michael Key Reveals What Bumblebee Sounds Like in New Animated Film]</ref>
*April 11, 2024 — The cast of the movie previews the trailer and reveals a new logo for the film at Cinemacon 2024, The Hollywood Reporter also confirms [[Steve Buscemi]] has joined the cast.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-animated-movie-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235871998/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson and Brian Tyree Henry Debut Origin Story 'Transformers One' - The Hollywood Reporter]</ref> During the presentation, Hemsworth revealed that Cullen served as a consultant on the getting the voice down.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-news-film-is-testing-very-well-and-peter-cullen-consulted-chris-hemsworth-on-voice/48127/ Transformers One News: Film is Testing Very Well and Peter Cullen Consulted Chris Hemsworth on Voice]</ref>
*April 16, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry announce the date of the film's first trailer being on Thursday, April 18, 2024, as it will be launched into space.<ref>[https://collider.com/transformers-one-trailer-premiered-from-space/ The 'Transformers One' Trailer Will Be Premiered From Space - Collider]</ref>
[[File:TransformersOne-weatherballoon.jpg|right|thumb|250px|''So how do you judge what a man is worth? By what he [[Toy|builds or buys]]? You can never see with your eyes on Earth Look through Heaven's eyes Look at your life. Look at your life Look at your life through Heaven's eyes'']]
*April 18, 2024 — A livestream hosted by Chris Hemsworth and Brian Tyree Henry follows a small craft launched towards space, with a screen that plays the trailer once it reaches 125,000 feet. The movie's release date has been pushed back by one week, to September 20, reportedly to avoid the release conflicting with that of ''{{w|Beetlejuice Beetlejuice}}''.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/04/transformers-one-trailer-release-date-1235889037/ ‘Transformers One’ Launches Trailer In Space, A First For A Movie Studio; Pic Going Later In September]</ref> When asked whether the film is a fresh start, a prequel to the live-action films, or its own thing, Cooley replies "yes to all of the above".<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status/ Transformers ONE Director Confirms New Movie's Canon Status - ComicBook.com]</ref>
*May 20, 2024 — [[Brian Tyler]] is attached as the film's composer.<ref>[https://filmmusicreporter.com/2024/05/20/brian-tyler-scoring-josh-cooleys-transformers-one/ Brian Tyler Scoring Josh Cooley’s ‘Transformers One’ - Filmmusicreporter.com]</ref>
*June 7, 2024 — Production for the film is revealed to be finished in the following month.<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2024/06/07/work-on-transformers-one-animated-movie-is-set-to-wrap-up-in-july-513038 Work On Transformers: One Animated Movie Is Set To Wrap Up In July - TFW2005]</ref>
*June 10, 2024 — A work-in-progress cut of the film was screened at the {{w|Annecy International Animation Film Festival}} to a standing ovation.<ref>[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-scarlett-johansson-1235918820/ Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Transformers One’ Draws Laughs, Cheers in Its Annecy Debut - Hollywood Reporter]</ref>
*June 12, 2024 — Several media outlets, including representatives from TFWiki, are invited to an [[Transformers One London advance screening|advance screening]] hosted by di Bonaventura and Cooley.
*June 18, 2024 — Production designer Jason Scheier confirms animation for the film is finished.<ref>[https://twitter.com/ScheierJason/status/1803227407404638226/ Production Designer Jason Scheier's post on Twitter]</ref>
*June 27, 2024 — Sound-mixing for the film is finished, with production finally now complete around three months in advance of release.<ref>[https://www.instagram.com/p/C8vPCEUS3Bs/ @CooleyYourFaceOff - Instagram]</ref>
*July 9, 2024 — A panel for the film has been announced for [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2024 on Thursday, July 25 at 11:45 am PST at Hall H.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-comic-con-1236004636/ Paramount Animation & Hasbro Entertainment’s ‘Transformers One’ Will Be More Than Meets The Eye At San Diego Comic-Con]</ref>
*July 13, 2024 — Chris Hemsworth, Bryan Tyree Henry, and Keegan-Michael Key reveal a new clip of the main cast transforming for the first time at the Kids' Choice Awards 2024.<ref>[https://twitter.com/transformers/status/1812285185427431646/ Post from the official Transformers account on Twitter]</ref>
*July 23, 2024 — Cooley discusses how ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' influenced ''One''.<ref>[https://ew.com/transformers-one-comic-con-preview-optimus-prime-megatron-origin-story-8676886 Transformers One director reveals how infamous 1986 animated movie influenced new prequel film]</ref> A screening of the finished film was shown at a fan-event at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles and in New York City.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/anime/news/transformers-one-review-first-reactions/ Transformers One First Reactions are Raving Over "Best Transformers Film to Date"]</ref> Hemsworth talks about voicing Optimus Prime in the film and how his depiction stands out.<ref>[https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-optimus-prime-orion-pax/ Chris Hemsworth on Becoming Optimus Prime for Transformers One (Exclusive)]</ref>
*July 24, 2024 — Several new posters are released, along with the announcement of a new trailer the following day at the SDCC panel.<ref>[https://twutter.com/transformers/status/1816111093917573615/ Second trailer announcement on Twitter]</ref>
*July 25, 2024 — Details at the SDCC panel were revealed, along with the debut of the second trailer and Bucsemi's role announced to be Starscream.<ref>[https://deadline.com/2024/07/transformers-one-chris-hemsworth-comic-con-1236022134/ ‘Transformers One’ Ignites Comic-Con With Chris Hemsworth, Brian Tyree Henry & Keegan-Michael Key: How Two Best Friends Became Immortal Enemies]</ref> [[Eric Pearson]] was revealed to be an additional writer.<ref>[https://www.awn.com/news/paramount-drops-transformers-one-trailer-2 Paramount Drops ‘Transformers One’ Trailer #2]</ref>
*August 21, 2024 — A new clip of Orion Pax and D-16 competing in the Iacon 5000 race is released on Paramount's YouTube channel.<ref>[https://youtu.be/7o-bGIBZxdc?feature=shared/ TRANSFORMERS ONE Film Clip IACON Race Begins (2024)]</ref>
*August 23, 2024 — Evan Michael Lee is revealed to be voicing Jazz.<ref>[https://twitter.com/Evanmichaellee/status/1826960202920530306/ Evan Michael Lee on Twitter]</ref>
*August 24, 2024 — [[Jon Bailey]], [[Jason Konopisos-Alvarez]], [[Isaac C. Singleton, Jr.]] and [[Vanessa Liguori]] are revealed to be voicing Soundwave, Shockwave, Darkwing and Airachnid respectively, with Bailey reprising his role from ''[[Bumblebee (film)|Bumblebee]]''.<ref>[https://punto.com.ph/paramount-pictures-our-crew-rolls-deep-meet-the-voice-cast-behind-the-characters-in-transformers-one-in-cinemas-september-18/ PARAMOUNT PICTURES : OUR CREW ROLLS DEEP: MEET THE VOICE CAST BEHIND THE CHARACTERS IN “TRANSFORMERS ONE,” IN CINEMAS SEPTEMBER 18 on Punzo.com]</ref>
*September 6, 2024 — The film's credits song, '[[If I Fall]]' by [[Quavo]], is released.<ref>[https://youtu.be/M3FCIf0HFnk?si=NB1J3bT9XNPOpKCc/ If I Fall (Music from the Motion Picture Transformers One / Lyric Video)]</ref>
*September 12, 2024 — In an interview, Lorenzo di Bonaventura clarifies that ''One'' doesn't directly connect to the live-action films, and describes them as "two universes" that will be "[kept] separate". However, he notes that ''One'' will likely have an influence on future live-action projects.<ref>[https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ Is Transformers One a Prequel or Reboot? The Animated Movie's Origin Story Is Both, Director Says]</ref> The film's review embargo is also lifted, and the film debuts with an 89% "Fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes.<ref>[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-one-critic-reviews-are-out-currently-89-on-rotten-tomatoes/48337/ Transformers One Critic Reviews are Out, Currently 89% on Rotten Tomatoes]</ref>
*September 13, 2024 — The film's main theme is released.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFnuXrOH0fs/ Brian Tyler - Transformers One Theme | Transformers One (Music from the Motion Picture)]</ref>
*September 17, 2024 — In an interview with Lorenzo di Bonaventura and Josh Cooley, when asked again about ''One''{{'}}s relation to any of the live-action movies, di Bonaventura stated, "It was like 300 million years before the [[Transformers (film)|first Michael Bay movie]], so if that's a prequel, that's a prequel."<ref>[https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-and-josh-cooley-interview/ Transformers One Producer Hopes For Sequel & Confirms G.I. Joe Crossover]</ref>
*September 18, 2024 — An early fan event screening is held, preceded by a seven-minute featurette consisting of interview segments with Hemsworth, Henry, and Key, footage of main cast recording their dialogue, and some [https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1836584462341054907 hilarious trivia]. Attendees receive one of four exclusive keychains and poster prints featuring Orion Pax, D-16, B-127, or Elita-1.<ref>https://bleedingcool.com/movies/transformers-one-4-new-posters-tickets-go-on-sale-fan-screenings/</ref>
*September 20, 2024 — The first 300 ticket holders at participating theaters receive a poster print of {{w|Shadow the Hedgehog}} to promote the upcoming release of ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog (character)|Sonic the Hedgehog 3]]''.<ref>https://kotaku.com/sonic-3-shadow-print-transformers-one-theater-showtimes-1851649010</ref>

===Changes before, during, and after production===
*Although the broad story beats of ''One'' remained more or less consistent over the course of the film's development, the first draft—written before Josh Cooley's involvement—was a silly, joke-heavy script that was very different in tone from the final product. When first brought on to direct, Cooley pushed for a more serious treatment to bring the film closer in line to the usual tone of the ''Transformers'' franchise.<ref name="gizmodo">[https://gizmodo.com/transformers-one-director-interview-josh-cooley-easter-eggs-2000489187 ''Transformers One'' Director Josh Cooley Talks Lore, Easter Eggs, and Alternate Versions] </ref>
*At one point, a bird robot based on ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Aerobolt]] would've played a role in the story.<ref>{{citesocial|quote= "In an older version of the story we explored Aerobolt being part of the story. It never made it into the final."|link=https://x.com/ScheierJason/status/1840624306465755358|name=Jason Scheier|site=Twitter|year=2024|month=9|day=30}}</ref>
*An early draft had a scene where Orion and D-16 played an arcade game together, which would've featured an 8-bit version of "The Touch". The gag was eventually dropped, although the arcade machine and a different reference to the song made it into the final film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*Another draft had D-16 as a gladiator, alluding to another part of the character's standard origin story, but ultimately this concept was cut for time.<ref>[https://www.indiewire.com/features/animation/transformers-one-star-wars-old-republic-interview-1235017651/ ‘Transformers One’ Director Talks Bringing the Franchise to Its ‘Old Republic’ Era - Indiewire]</ref>
*Originally, the film would've ended on a smash cut to the film's title, accompanied by a rendition of the classic ''Transformers'' [[theme song]]. However, Cooley decided that the scene would be overly self-referential, and instead [[Brian Tyler]] scored an original composition to close out the film.<ref name="gizmodo" />
*A shot of Orion, Elita, Soundwave, and Shockwave exiting the train after crashing into Sentinel's tower is not in the final film, and only appears in promotional material.
*Concept air for Airachnid reveals she was initially planned to transform into a spider rather than a drone.
*A bot resembling [[Reflector]] was also present in concept art, but makes no appearance in the film proper. Unless he was the cameraman.

==Notes==
*As seen in the cast list above, Arcee and Chromia are voiced by Jinny Chung, the film's story / script coordinator. The Injured Racer is voiced by Dillon Bryan, Josh Cooley's assistant. Cooley himself cameos as Skywarp, the "Control Room Guys", and the PA system.
* Several international releases of the film are edited to cut away from Orion's "finger transformation" a few seconds earlier, as well as changing any mention of Bee's "knife hands" to refer to them as "sword hands" instead.
* The credits feature a dedication to former Hasbro CEO [[Brian Goldner]], who passed away in October 2021.
*Darkwing was named by Hasbro designer [[Mark Maher]], when his boss asked him "If this was a Decepticon flyer, who would it be?"<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://www.instagram.com/stories/markclonus/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2024|month=09|day=08}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''''Transformers/One''''' (トランスフォーマー/ONE ''Toransufōmā Wan'')
*''Cantonese:'' '''''Bin Ying Gam Gong: Choh Chi Pin''''' (變形金剛：初始篇, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''French:'' '''''Transformers : Le Commencement''''' (France, "Transformers: The Beginning"), '''''Transformers : Un''''' (Canada, "Transformers: One")
*''Hungarian:'' '''''Transformers Egy''''' ("Transformers One")
*''Korean:'' '''''Transformer ONE''''' (트랜스포머 ONE ''Teuraenseupomeo ONE'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''''Biànxíng Jīngāng: Qǐyuán''''' (变形金刚：起源, "Transformers: The Origin")
*''Portuguese:'' '''''Transformers: O Início''''' ("Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Russian:'' '''''Transformery: Nachalo''''' (Трансформеры: Начало, "Transformers: The Beginning")
*''Spanish:'' '''''Transformers One''''' (Spain), '''''Transformers : Uno''''' (Latin America, "Transformers: One")

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:One| ]]
[[Category:Real world films]]

Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (manga)

2024-11-20T14:52:54Z

TFEarthConquest: Added the notes section about HasTak not owning rights. Still can't access Instagram to link reference.

{{nav-victory}}

Running in ''[[TV Magazine]]'' from April [[1989]] to January [[1990]], the '''''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory''''' (戦え!超ロボット生命体トランスフォーマーV ''Tatakae! Chō Robot Seimeitai Transformers Victory'') [[manga]] lasted for ten issues, all of which were written by [[Masumi Kaneda]] and featured artwork by [[Ban Magami]].

The ''Victory'' manga is a distinct anomaly amongst the Generation 1 Transformers manga series. Like ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (manga)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' before it, the ''Victory'' manga was independent of the anime, telling its own story, whereas all the previous manga had supplemented the TV shows, weaving between their episodes. However, while the ''Masterforce'' manga essentially told a variation of the anime's storyline, hitting the same basic plot points and themes and employing characters in the same manner, the ''Victory'' manga is a ''completely'' different story from the anime. Additionally, while the other mangas (''Masterforce'' included) had very little in the way of continuing story, focusing more on single-chapter tales, ''Victory'' has a very defined story arc running from beginning to end, focusing on [[Jan Minakaze]] and manga-exclusive character [[Solon Kitakaze (G1)|Solon Kitakaze]].

All this is probably due to the fact that while Masumi Kaneda originated the original concept for ''Victory'', the anime was headed up by [[Hiroyuki Hoshiyama]]. Consequently, it wound up going in a significantly different direction to the manga, where Kaneda was busy employing the original ideas that he had for the series. As one might expect from the creator of ''Super-God Masterforce'', Kaneda's manga featured a particularly pronounced human involvement, with Solon, additional manga-exclusive character [[Patty Minakaze]], and returning ''Masterforce'' characters [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Cab (human)|Cab]] teaming up with Jan to create an armored group called the [[Victories]]. On an artistic level, the manga even employed different character designs than the anime, using Ban Magami's original designs for Jan and [[Illumina]] before they were modified for television, resulting in a distinctly different look for the pair.

This does not, however, change the fact that the manga could also be thoroughly ''bizarre'' at times, including such oddities as Deathsaurus being terrified of a caterpillar, four young boys wandering around in robot hot pants, and its infamous conclusion, featuring the first [[canon]]ical appearance of [[Female Transformer|female]] Decepticons and little tiny baby Decepticons.

{{chapters
|title=''Victory'' issues
|prev=Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (manga)
|next=Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Zone (manga)
|content=
*[[So Cool! Our Ally, Star Saber!|#1]]
*[[Great Reversal! Star Saber|#2]]
*[[Leozack's Rampage!|#3]]
*[[Star Saber, Warrior of Love!|#4]]
*[[Danger, Jan! Hurry, Star Saber!|#5]]
*[[Star of Friendship, Jan and Star Saber!|#6]]
*[[The Strongest Pair, the Combination of Victory!|#7]]
*[[Victory Saber Is Strong!|#8]]
*[[Shine, Five Stars of Victory|#9]]
*[[The Grand Victory War|#10]]
}}

==Collections==
* '''''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: The Comics]]''''' ([[October 23]], [[2002]])
* '''''[[Transformers: The Manga Volume 3]]''''' ([[October 13]], [[2020]])

<gallery>
File:TransformersTheComicsCover01.jpg|'''''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: The Comics'''''; art by Ban Magami
File:TFTheMangaVol3.jpg|'''''Transformers: The Manga Volume 3'''''; art by Ban Magami
</gallery>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Victory (manga)}}
[[Category:Japanese Generation 1 comic series]]
[[Category:Victory media]]

==Notes==
*In a post regarding the HasLab Deathsaurus campaign, a question was asked regarding if Esmeral was ever considered to be one of the milestones for the project. Designer Evan Brooks responded by saying that Hasbro and Takara don't actually own the rights to Esmeral or the rest of the Victory manga original characters.

Nova Prime

2024-11-19T20:09:07Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */ Added knowledge to the fact that Nova's one of the 13 in EW. Vector Prime said so.

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-Prima.png|cSize=40px|cLink=Prima|cPretty=Prima}}|autobot|decepticon|unicron}}
{{disambigm|Nova Prime (disambiguation)|Nemesis Prime (disambiguation)}}
:''Nova Prime is a [[Transformer]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:Novaprime.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[[Furmanism|Ahead, hovering, like some vast, predatory bird...]]]]
'''Nova Prime''' was the predecessor to [[Nominus Prime]]. Once the elite soldier '''Nova Major''', he led the unification of a divided [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], ascending to leadership of his people. An expansionist and a supremacist, Nova Prime believed that [[Transformer]]s were the greatest among all life forms and that they should bring their glory to the myriad of lesser races throughout the universe.

After being sucked into the [[Dead Universe]], Nova was chosen to be the host for [[Darkness (G1)|the Darkness]], an otherworldly counterpart of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] which worked by transforming the inhabitants of the Dead Universe into [[Zombie|undead wielders of anti-life]]. Upon merging, Nova was reborn as the sinister and extremely powerful '''Nemesis Prime'''. He now sees it as his mission to fulfil the Darkness' imperative by expanding the Dead Universe's hold into the living realm.

Nemesis may seem to hold sway over both his troops and the Darkness, but nothing could be further from the truth. The powerful [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] sees the Darkness as his rightful inheritance. And then, there is the fear. The fear that the Darkness has more in common with the Matrix than Nemesis is comfortable with. He feels he has earned this power, and isn't willing to see it follow its natural path. It is for this reason he must eliminate Optimus Prime. And it is for this reason he fears to face his successor.

{{bigquote|Nova was forever seeking, forever testing the limits of science and faith. He had a certain moral...ambiguity about the Cybertronian ideal.|[[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]|"[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]"}}

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]]}}

{{quote|'''I AM THE LEGACY OF PRIMUS!'''|Nova Prime|"[[Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things]]"}}

[[File:TheCrucible NovaMajorEucryphia.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.4]]
Long ago in [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron's]] past, there was a [[First Cybertronian Civil War|great war]] (no, not [[Great War (G1)|that one]]) and Nova Major fought for his tribe's leader [[Prima]]. Ten million years ago, Prima flew the coop and Nova was left as the last soldier standing at the Siege of the [[Citadel of Light]] until [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] arrived out of the wilderness. The two fought against the beast hordes and drove them back, turning the siege into a by-word for courage. [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the last Prime on the planet, was the one who brought them together in the hope that they could end the war.

Realizing the Primes were gone, Nova went out and united the tribes (starting with [[Rhinox (BW)|the beasts]]) to create a unified Cybertronian society, one for all Cybertronians and where everyone would be "[[functionism|in their place]]." Trion later claimed that this did not sound sinister at the time.

[[File:PrimusAllGoodThings-introdump.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|"I, '''Nova Prime''', stand ready to use my '''homage''' powers to enforce a pleasing '''metafictionality!'''"]]

With Trion's blessing, Nova took the mantle of Prime. {{storylink|The Crucible}} With the war over, he and his closest friends and advisors Galvatron, [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]], and [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] went on a quest in Cybertron's underground, hoping to rediscover the lost principles of their gods, the [[Guiding Hand]]. Nova found the Hand's old home: [[Crystal City]], with its guardian [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]. Omega joined Nova's crew and they worked to bring about the legendary [[Golden Age]]. {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}}

Soon, Nova's ambition grew and he secretly began planning the [[Expansion]], the Cybertronian conquest of the universe. Obsessed with the Hand's prophecy that "[['Til all are one|all shall be one]]", he intended to enslave all other lifeforms in order to "free" them from their individual wills and make them part of something greater—Nova's empire. He formed the [[Primal Vanguard]] for off-world peacekeeping and began work on the first ''[[Ark (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|Ark]]'', claiming it was meant for trade and exploration when it was in truth the first step of the Expansion. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 2: Hangers On|Hangers On}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} However, his plans hit a snag when [[Vector Sigma]]'s flow of new [[spark]]s began to cease. Fearing that his Expansion would be impossible with a limited population of Cybertronians at his disposal, Nova had a team of scientists led by [[Solomus|Tyrest]] tap into the [[Matrix of Leadership]] and use its power to create new life, a process that was covered up as a "population augmentation program" that made use of [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|"spark splicing"]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}} {{storylink|Remain in Light 3 of 5: The Divided Self|The Divided Self}} Nova Prime also wished to evolve Cybertronians in preparation for their destiny as rulers of the universe, and against Omega's wishes, he had Jhiaxus re-engineer [[Pretender Monster|six Transformers]] to be able to [[Combiner|combine]] into a being of higher intellect and strength, in hopes of uncovering the secret of [[Nexus Prime]]'s [[Enigma of Combination]]. However they were driven mad by the merging, and they devolved into [[Monstructor (G1)|a monster]] that tore through Crystal City before they were stopped. Nova didn't care about the destruction though, feeling the city had outlived its usefulness. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}} {{storylink|Primus: All Good Things|All Good Things}} {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:DarkCybertron1 NovaOrdersEntryIntoDU.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.7|Their "Prime Directive" is the literal opposite of [[Star Trek]]'s.]]
Nova Prime and his closest comrades boarded the ''Ark'' to enact the Expansion, making their way to the [[Benzuli Expanse]] where they discovered a portal to the [[Dead Universe]]. Seeing it as just ''another'' universe to conquer, Nova ordered the ship to pass through, not worried at all by the fact that the portal itself was pulling them in. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} The ship never reappeared and the crew was presumed dead, but Nova's aggressive intentions never came to light, and the Transformers honored his memory with a statue. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}} The Matrix he once carried remained on Cybertron, hidden in the [[Underworld|Undergrid]] {{storylink|Transformation (issue)|Transformation}}, with a fake one (that everyone believed was real) left behind for his successor, [[Nominus Prime]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 1: Post Hoc|Post Hoc}} Meanwhile, his population expansion had left Cybertron with energon shortages and caused an outburst of racism, complete with a period of apartheid, against the constructed Transformers created by his spark splicing program. {{storylink|Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|Patternism}}

[[File:Escalation6 OptimusNemesisInfraspace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|[[Lightbright (G1)|Lite-Brite]], Lite-Brite, make a face to glow at night!]]
The Prime was thought dead but countless years later, when [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] downloaded himself into [[infraspace]] to survive an attack from [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], he sensed the presence of Nova Prime... and was filled with an incredible sense of dread. {{storylink|Escalation issue 6|Escalation #6}} These feelings led Optimus Prime to seek information from Omega Supreme, and shared with him his belief that Nova might still be alive, and his feelings of dread. In turn, Omega told Optimus of Nova's story, and later learned of Monstructor. Optimus was left with the knowledge that the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] lineage had been corrupt from the start, and it gave the Autobot leader something to ponder about. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}}

It was later learned that Optimus Prime's assessment was right: Nova Prime was still functioning, though in a strange half-dead state in the [[Dead Universe]], and was now the fearsome figure known as Nemesis Prime, powered by the almighty mind-altering anti-Matrix, the [[Darkness (G1)|Darkness]], which ruled the Dead Universe. His grand plan, the Expansion, was now intended to merge the Dead Universe with the real one, allowing him to both return home at long last ''and'' direct the merged universe into a new, more ''ordered'' era.

[[File:Jhiaxusnemesisprimedevastation.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.3|Not even a toy yet and he's already got a [[black repaint]].]]
He already had an outpost and minions on [[Gorlam Prime]], ready to direct his coming Expansion. He had [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] captured by [[Sports Car Patrol|some of his minions]] and programmed {{storylink|Spotlight: Nightbeat}} to assassinate Optimus Prime at a set time, {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}} as he subconsciously knew the Darkness would behave like the Matrix and jump from him to Optimus if given the chance. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

With that secured, Nemesis Prime decided that the Expansion was ready to begin. He dispatched [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a mission to secure [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], kill the Autobots guarding him, and bring the [[Pretender]] to the Dead Universe. Galvatron secured Thunderwing, but spared the Autobots, viewing it as a small rebellion against Nova. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}} After observing the [[Reaper]]s about to destroy [[Earth]], he ordered Galvatron there to stop them, since the Earth was part of their expansion plan. {{storylink|Devastation issue 3|Devastation #3}} Galvatron performed his task well, but Prime remarked to Jhiaxus that he was aware that Galvatron had his own agendas and secrets. {{storylink|Devastation issue 6|Devastation #6}}

After [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] secured the [[Nega-Core]] and activated its guardian, Nemesis Prime initiated the Expansion with the rest of the [[Dead Universe]] crew. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}}

Nemesis Prime was found by Jhiaxus on the remains of the ''Ark'', thinking back on old times and planning for the future. Upon receiving the latest intelligence on both Cyclonus and Nightbeat, he dismissed the former and requested Jhiaxus take care of the Nightbeat situation personally. When Jhiaxus reported Nightbeat's death, Nemesis was unmoved, deciding he would take over Nightbeat's mission and deal with Optimus Prime himself. {{storylink|Spotlight: Hardhead}}

[[File:DarknessNemesis.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|He's an 8.5 on the Kirby Dot Scale!]]
Nemesis Prime attacked the prison facility on [[Garrus-9]] while Optimus Prime was inspecting it. The Autobot defense forces were helpless against him: Nemesis was immune to all their firepower and used his deadly decaying touch to instantly snuff out their lives. Seeing that conflict was futile, Optimus Prime ordered all the defenders to retreat, then faced Nemesis Prime directly. Nemesis gloated about the upcoming Expansion, then revealed to Optimus Prime the nature of the Darkness and channeled it as a weapon against Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Spotlight: Doubledealer}}

Unfortunately for Nemesis, the Darkness ''did'' want to leap to Optimus as he had feared, and it would do so if he either used it or touched Optimus. Enraged, Nemesis backed off and resorted to firing a torrent of normal energy. Optimus was able to withstand the blast however, but their fight ended abruptly when Nemesis, distracted by the battle, was shot in the back and killed by Galvatron, as part of his plan to claim the Darkness for himself. Though Optimus Prime soon destroyed the Darkness-infused Galvatron (or so he thought), Optimus remarked that he could not mourn his predecessor, noting that Nova Prime was long dead. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

[[File:HoD3 NemesisPrimeRevealed.jpg|thumb|right|Now filled with Black Moon clan essence.]]
Nemesis's body was taken back to Cybertron, where [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] took custody of it and began studying it in his lab in hopes of finding out more about the Dead Universe. He eventually came to speculate that Nemesis had not actually perished, but rather, that his life-essence had returned to the Dead Universe. What Brainstorm was ''not'' aware of, however, was the bolt of energy that had leapt from Nemesis's corpse to his own body, leaving him in a living-dead state of his own. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

Brainstorm's supposition was proven correct when Nemesis Prime reappeared on the planet [[Dykayra]], emerging from a portal to the Dead Universe to confront Galvatron. His wounds pulsating with dark energy, he now served the greater being of which the Darkness had always been but a small part: the [[D-Void]]. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 3|Heart of Darkness #3}} Apparently seeking to retake the Darkness from Galvatron, Nemesis briefly battled him and his army, brushing off their firepower and destroyed several of Galvatron's minions by devouring their energy. He then mutated into a gigantic, horrible monster, seemingly falling under the D-Void's direct control in the process, and continued the fight against Galvatron. In the end, Galvatron was able to summon his army and force the malformed Nemesis Prime back through the portal, which he then destroyed. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}}

[[File:FinestHour NovaGalvatronExitMegatron.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb|left|"Hey, what's the big idea? Move it, chowdah-head!"{{-}}"''Whoob whoob whoob''!"]]
As it transpired, however, Nemesis had not sought to reclaim the Darkness, but had rather only been used a pawn by D-Void in its attempts to motivate Galvatron into using the Darkness to destroy Cybertron. Following the D-Void's destruction and Galvatron's own consignment to the Dead Universe, Nemesis was at last free of its influence, and reverted to being "Nova Prime" in name and appearance once more. Working with Galvatron, he made contact with Jhiaxus and his old pupil [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] in the living universe, and began an apparent plot to conquer Cybertron and return it to Nova's leadership. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Initially hoping to use the [[space bridge]] of Shockwave's [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]] as transport out of the Dead Universe, {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} Nova and Galvatron were forced to use Megatron's personal space bridge when that plan faltered. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}} However, as Nova was about to emerge in the living universe, the united forces of [[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]]'s Autobots and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons attacked Shockwave's lair, and in the chaos, Nova was punched by [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] back into the Dead Universe.

[[File:NoExit NovaAndOrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.6]]
Trapped yet again, Nova Prime directed his rage upon a group of intruders who had entered the Dead Universe while he had been occupied: Orion Pax and his band. {{storylink|Finest Hour: Dark Cybertron Chapter 5|Finest Hour}} Amused with Orion's choice to no longer call himself a Prime, Nova proceeded to mock Cyclonus, claiming that his former crewmate had been nothing but a hanger-on. After [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] broke out of the containment field Nova had sealed the group in, Nova destroyed his protective forcefield generator, allowing the Autobot to be consumed and disintegrated by the Dead Universe. {{storylink|No Exit: Dark Cybertron Chapter 6|No Exit}} Demonstrating his growing ability to manipulate the energies of the Dead Universe, Nova took the remainder of the group to his citadel, where he kept [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], whom he had been attempting to convert into a living spacebridge. In the energy of his captives' [[spark]]s, Nova Prime finally saw a chance to escape the universe. {{Storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead Are Not Enough}}

[[File:RID26 my name is optimus prime.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7|Blue blazes!]]
However, the prisoners were able to liberate Nightbeat, still under Nova's control after all these years, and he then helped them escape their cage. Confronting them, Nova Prime took the opportunity to challenge his successor to battle once more. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} Nova employed some psychological warfare on Pax, using his control of the Dead Universe to make himself shape-shift into each member of the Prime lineage to mock Orion with its tainted legacy. After Nova became a mirror image of him, Pax sank into temporary despair as Nova began gaining the upper hand. However, [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] delivered a pep talk that got Pax back on his feet, just before being blasted by Nova. Re-accepting his role as Prime and his duty to brighten that dark lineage, Optimus promptly tore Nova's arm off and finally slew his evil predecessor with a punch clear through the villain's chest. Upon expiring, Nova Prime's crumbling body reverted to its natural appearance. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}}

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to Orion, this was exactly what Shockwave had wanted all along; with Nova dead, the Dead Universe's energies were now Shockwave's to control as part of his ''true'' plan to end all life in the universe. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}} Nova's corpse had one final use to serve, though: when Optimus's team heard singing emanating from it, they realized that it contained a link back to the living universe, and used the technology of his citadel to convert his body into a space bridge home. They emerged through a portal in Brainstorm's own chest, thanks to his own living-dead link to the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}}

[[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]] later cited Nova Prime—along with [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel]] and [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta]]—as examples of the corrupt lineage of the Primes, to discredit Optimus and sway the opinion of the [[Council of Worlds]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 3: The Medium and the Message|The Medium and the Message}} After being removed from power and receiving a life sentence, Starscream defended his reign of Cybertron to Bumblebee by bringing up Nova Prime trying to destroy the universe multiple times. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}}

====The Functionist Universe====
In an [[Functionist Universe|alternate timeline]] where the [[Functionist Council]] overthrew Nominus Prime and ruled Cybertron, they discovered the truth behind Nova Prime's spark splicing program and declared it heresy. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
At some point during Cybertron's history, Nova Prime held the Matrix. When he inherited the talisman, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Orion Pax]] glimpsed Nova's spirit along with his other predecessors during a trip through the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]]. {{storylink|War World: Prime|Prime}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:Legendscardgame-NovaPrime.jpg|right|thumb|300px|]]
The peace of Nova Prime's rule over Cybertron was shattered by the arrival of a future version of himself named [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis Prime]]. Though Nova Prime rallied [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] in an attempt to quell this future shade, Nemesis Prime triumphed over the Autobots. {{storylink|Prime Evil}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Devastation''===
[[File:Devastation-Nova-Madness.jpg|right|thumb|Insane in the Mainframe]]

Nova Prime was known as the conqueror of the [[Benzuli Expanse]], greatest Autobot to bear the Matrix, and all around great guy. He inspired [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Bad Bots]] to be good and [[Kranix (G1)|Good Bots]] to be better. It was he who led the Mission of Cybertronian Expansion, hoping to create [[Cybertronian colonies|colonies]] on cyberformed planets for future Cybertronians to inhabit, thereby preserving their culture forever.

The mission started out as a tremendous success. The crew would find uninhabited planets and using the [[Ferrotaxis]], a [[Plasma Core]], and the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon Swarm]] aboard Nova Prime's ship, the ''[[Proudstar]]'', a planet could be quickly cyberformed and ready for colonization. After [[Lithone (planet)|Lithone]] had been cyberformed, resources began to wane and the ''Proudstar'' made a supply run on a [[Unicron/Generation 1|mysterious planet]]. [[File:Devastation-Nova-Awakens.jpg|left|thumb|Nova Prime is awake, and he's mad you broke all his stuff.]] As the crew resupplied, a darkness fell over them and their ship, causing them to become corrupt and mad. Before the crew left the planet, Nova Prime pointed it in the direction of Cybertron. As the ''Proudstar'' sailed through the galaxy, the darkness began to grow in Nova Prime, with righteous pride, as opposed to once peaceful intentions, beginning to guide his mission. Nova Prime eventually began targeting inhabited planets for cyberforming, wiping out several civilizations. One of these planets was [[Earth]] where, thanks to some sabotage courtesy of a guilt-ridden [[Kranix (G1)|Kranix]], the ''Proudstar'' crashed into the surface and trapped its crew and resources in stasis. Unaware of what had transpired on his fateful mission, the populace of Cybertron declared Nova Prime as missing in action while heralding him as one of the greatest heroes their race had ever produced.

In the late 20th century, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] discovered the ''Proudstar'' and tried to use it to cyberform Earth only for his plot to be foiled by Nova's eventual successor Optimus Prime. Though Optimus had believed the ''Proudstar'' to be offline once again, some unseen power supply still thrummed deep within its bowels and, within a broken [[stasis pod]], reawakened Nova Prime! {{storylink|Transformers: Devastation|Devastation}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:Battle-Tactics-Nova-Prime.jpg|thumb|400px|I ''am'' the most powerful Prime!]]
Nova Prime participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a an Epic character who was available in the (last) February Daily Campaign, and could be recruited by collecting 20 Alpha cores, 20 Beta Cores, 20 Omega cores, and 10 cores of this character. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Frontiers''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Frontiers}}}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Nova Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
An aggressive seeker of advancement of the Cybertronian race, Nova Prime observed many realities, frustrated that in none of them did Cybertronians unite to take their rightful place as leaders of the universe. To change destiny, Nova Prime instigated a [[Time Vortex]] in one universe to trap the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] and [[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]] in [[1984]], which would gradually unravel the entire fabric of reality, allowing him to conduct his own [[Great Resetting]].

Nova Prime is said to be one of the original Thirteen Primes.

Upon arriving in normal spacetime, Nova Prime retrieved the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] from a slow-time bubble and recruited them to his cause, leaving behind [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] others who refused to follow anyone but [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Bringing his new acolytes to [[inner space]], Nova Prime maintained the other Terrorcons in stasis, instead assigning [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] alone to retrieve Sinnertwin's own Megatron, preferably intact. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Nova Prime arrival}} The opposition concluded that to stop a Prime's gambit, they would need a Prime's tool, the [[Forge of Solus Prime]]. {{storylink|History Repeating}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Thrilling-30-Nemesis-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|]]
:''See: [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Toys]]''

:The ''Legends'' game event "[[Prime Evil]]", [[repurposing|repurposes]] the character model of [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|G1 Nemesis Prime]] as the future version of Nova Prime, because the [[:File:TFLegends-NemesisPrime.jpg|Nemesis Prime cards]] available in that event use the same bio as the one we previously got in "[[Nemesis Rising]]", where he was an evil clone of Optimus Prime created by [[Doctor Arkeville]]. We'll just link you to that dude's toy page, rather than reproduce it all here.
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-NovaPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|That's weird, this doesn't look anything like Glenn Close.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Nova Prime''' (Deluxe Class, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': "[[Fusion cannon|Quantum Fusion cannon]]", "[[G-Metal]] Battle Axe"

: The first of two [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusives for 2015, Nova Prime is a [[redeco]] of that same year's member incentive figure, [[Lio Convoy#Timelines 2|Lio Convoy]]. Both were retooled from ''Thrilling 30'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Deluxe|Orion Pax]] and feature a new head. Nova still comes with the blaster and axe, which can store via a 5mm peg on either side of the vehicle mode. Although not depicted on the instructions, the Quantum Fusion cannon can also peg into the hole on the larger blade of the Energon Axe.

: The foam insert in Nova Prime's box features an extra slot to store either the aforementioned incentive figure Lio Convoy, or the [[BotCon 2015]] customization class exclusive [[Galva Convoy#Timelines|Galva Convoy]], both of whom are featured in the exterior [[package art]].

: This figure officially [[Repurposing|doubles]] as ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Optimus Prime (SG)#NovaPrime|Nova Prime]]. This mold was also used to make Galva Convoy.
{{--}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:LegacyNovaPrime.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66|Estuans interius! Ira vehementi! '''SEPHIROTH!''']]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-multi|'''Nova Prime''' (Leader Class, [[2023]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Armor pieces, 2 missile launchers, laser cannon/truck cannon barrel, 2 front wheels/armguards
:*''Known designers'': [[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBqMyy6HYxE San Diego Comic-Con 2023 Generations panel recording] at the "Memo's collection" YouTube channel</ref>

:Part of the [[Amazon_(website) | Amazon]]-exclusive ''Pre-Cybertronian War Collection'' imprint, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy: Evolution]]'' Nova Prime is a [[retool]] and [[redeco]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#S40|Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime]], itself an extensive retool of ''Siege'' [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Ultra Magnus]], based on Nova's appearance in ''[[Transformers: Devastation]]''. He transforms into a heavily-armed, futuristic truck.

:Compared to Optimus, Nova has new wings, new shoulders, a new headsculpt, and a new chest, all in "super" mode. He includes all of Optimus's accessories, redecoed into Nova's regular color scheme. Being a retool of the ''Siege'' Magnus/Optimus mold, Nova is compatible with either of the two's armor sets, and Optimus and Magnus likewise are more or less compatible with Nova's armor pieces. The stock images (seen on the right) released after his reveal show a broken sample, where the figure's right ear tip is shown to be broken.

:Like Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime, Nova Prime also features flip-out support struts on the leg armor to compensate for the back's weight. While they're hardly needed since the armor's bulk is heavy enough to support the weight, the pieces also prevent the leg armor from standing flat when folded in.

:In vehicle mode, the trailer does not actually attach to the truck in a way that keeps its wheels lined up and consequently part of the trailer/armor section risks scraping if pushed across a surface.

:Nova Prime was revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con#2023|San Diego Comic-Con]] on [[July 20]], 2023, and went up for pre-order on Amazon the following day, with [[Hasbro Pulse]] also receiving a limited supply of the figure.
{{WFCSiegeUltraMagnusMold}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:NovaPrime variousmodes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I would have waited an eternity for this… it’s Nova Prime!]]
*Nova Prime's design began life as an Optimus Prime toy concept that artist [[Don Figueroa]] had drawn for [[Hasbro]], but ultimately went unused. In fact, part of the combined "[[Super Mode]]" concept art was first seen on the [[BotCon 2005]]-exclusive cover for [[Infiltration issue 0|''Infiltration'' #0]] (and the full art was seen in ''[[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]]''). Figueroa credits [[Simon Furman]] for the creation of Nova Prime as a character and reused the unused Optimus Prime design for Nova as he was not aware a new character needed to be designed before receiving the script for ''Spotlight: Optimus Prime'';<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|quote=Nova was solely a @SimonFurman3 creation, I just simply repurposed a rejected Optimus design I did much earlier because I wasn’t told a new character needed to be created/designed for this issue prior to me receiving the script|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639697794750619651|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> given enough time, Figueroa would have made Nova's vehicle mode more Cybertronian.<ref>{{citesocial|name=Don Figueroa|site=Twitter|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639753581233606656|quote=If I had advanced notice, I would have given him a more Cybertronian looking vehicle mode, preferably one without Earth looking tires. But I just straight up pulled him out of my portfolio as is (except for the head)|year=2023|month=03|day=23}}</ref> The head design, which had appeared prior as a vision in [[Escalation issue 6|''Escalation'' #6]], is by [[E. J. Su]].<ref>{{citesocial|link=https://twitter.com/SketchyFig/status/1639754070713057280|site=Twitter|name=Don Figueroa|quote=The head, btw is based on the one designed by @ejsu28 which appeared as a hologram in an earlier issue|year=2023|month=03|day=25}}</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Nova Prime''' (ノバ・プライム ''Noba Puraimu'', ノヴァ・プライム ''Nova Puraimu''), '''Nemesis Prime''' (ネメシス・プライム ''Nemeshisu Puraimu'')
*''Korean:'' '''Nova Prime''' (노바 프라임 ''Noba Peulaim'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Yào Tiān Wēi''' (耀天威, "Sky-deterrence Shine" ), '''Xīnghuáng''' (''Earth Wars'', 星皇 "Star Emperor")
*''Russian:'' '''Nova Prime''' (Нова Прайм ''Nova Praym'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{IDWPrimes nav}}
{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Dead Universe]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Legacy characters]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Primes]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Vector Prime

2024-11-19T20:05:36Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-VectorPrime.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Vector Prime}}|autobot|autobotg2|guardian}}
{{featured}}
[[File:VectorPrime dvd.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|He gives a new meaning to the term "grandfather clock".]]
'''Vector Prime''' is [[Primus]]'s appointed guardian of time and space. Though recorded history pegs him as 25 million years old,<ref>[[Revelations Part 4]]</ref> he has identified himself as 9 billion years old,<ref name="AVP">[[Ask Vector Prime]]</ref> making the clockwork-covered Transformer one of the [[Thirteen]]. He's so old that in many timelines, the locals have called him "the First Autobot".<ref>[[Ask Vector Prime]], 11 September 2015: "Come to think of it, in many timelines, I was not called "Vector Prime" but "The First Autobot." Indeed, this was from time-to-time shortened to simply "Autobot," though usually as an invective hurled at me."</ref> Despite his age, Vector Prime is very powerful, and can warp both space and time, though excessive use of this power can severely weaken him. His powers allow him to traverse the [[multiverse]] at will, allowing Vector Prime to track and record events across a countless number of realities.

Vector Prime was once a holder of the [[Matrix of Leadership]]<ref name="AVP">[[Ask Vector Prime]]</ref> before he left [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to guard space and time, a lonely job which isolated him from Cybertronian culture for tens of millions of years. Though he has rejoined the timestream on occasion to protect it from large-scale dangers,<ref>[[Vector Prime: In the Beginning]]</ref> his extraordinary exile has left him emotionally, culturally, and politically disconnected from his race. He speaks in archaic terminology steeped in chivalry from an age long past, which has led [[Transcendent Technomorph|some]] to believe him to be little more than a doddering relic (a front he admittedly finds useful at times). Despite this disconnect, Vector Prime never forgets that these strange modern creatures are the reason he guards space and time so fiercely. It is the miracle of time that allows these precious lives to continue and flourish across the multiverse.

Vector Prime has a "Guardian [[Mini-Con]]" called [[Safeguard (Cybertron)|Safeguard]], and is also responsible for the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]].

{{bigquote|I finally understand the true value of time, for it is the bonds between us that give time its meaning.|Vector Prime's last words|"[[Guardian (episode)|Guardian]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Unicron Trilogy continuity family===
====Fun Publications comics====
[[File:Vectorprimeut.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Hey, I can see THE DAWN OF TIME from here! Hi, Phil!]]
Vector Prime was created by Primus at the very beginning of its struggle with Unicron, 'drawn from the sublime material of a multiverse at the far end of entropy'. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 5|Vector Prime's profile in Club magazine #5}} During the long dormancy of [[Primus]] and [[Unicron]] at the beginning of time, Vector Prime retreated from the march of history to prepare for when his skills would once again be called upon. From this isolation he watched the greatest victories and defeats of the Transformers across various timelines, intervening only when his hand was needed to preserve the balance of time. (For example, Vector Prime helped mend [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and repair the [[The Agenda (Part III)|timestorm]] that [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]] [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] had unleashed in the [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]].) However, the awakening of Primus and Unicron returned Vector Prime to active service, following the wake of Unicron across the multiverse to prevent or restore what damage the Dark God had inflicted with its contaminating presence.

After the [[Transformers: Energon (cartoon)|Powerlinx Battles]], Primus attempted to lock Unicron's essence away in the center of a newborn sun, but this plan backfired and the sun collapsed into a black hole, also known as the [[Unicron Singularity]]. This threatened the multiverse itself, so Vector Prime was called back to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to assist the Autobots in locating artifacts which would destroy the black hole. {{storylink|Vector Prime: In the Beginning}}

[[File:Vectorprimeutramjet.jpg|thumb|Hey, we got swords. Let's parry.]]
During the Autobots' search, Vector Prime would routinely confer with [[Alpha Trion (Energon)|Alpha Trion]] on their progress. During one such visit, Unicron's heralds [[Ramjet (Universe)|Ramjet]] and [[Nemesis Prime (Universe)|Nemesis Prime]] attacked Cybertron, prompting Alpha Trion to recruit some extra-dimensional help in the form of [[Sentinel Maximus]]. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} No sooner had Maximus arrived than Ramjet and Nemesis came blasting into Alpha Trion's chamber; Vector duelled with Ramjet, but was unable to prevent him from heavily damaging Alpha Trion and destroying [[Vector Sigma]]. {{storylink|Balancing Act}} After placing Alpha Trion in a repair chamber, Vector Prime explained to Sentinel Maximus the extent of the peril they faced; it was Ramjet's plan that Nemesis Prime would unleash his [[Dead Matrix]] to destroy their Creator. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 2}} Deducting that their opponents would likely next strike at the [[Kalis Primary Energon Reserves Control]], Vector Prime and his allies preemptively traveled there to defend it. Sure enough, another one of Unicron's pawns, [[Scorponok (Energon)|Dark Scorponok]], soon turned up and attacked the facility. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 3}} Dark Scorponok was felled, but Vector Prime came to realize that the shambling creature had acted as a distraction while Ramjet and Nemesis Prime had made their way towards their true target: the chamber housing Primus's essence, deep within Cybertron. Vector Prime opened a warp gate and traveled with Sentinel Maximus to head off their enemies before the wicked machinations came to fruition. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Part 4}} Vector Prime and Ramjet's fight left the chamber and took them high above Cybertron. Ramjet offered Vector Prime another option to his plan: it was within Vector Prime's power to restore Unicron from the Singularity, dooming this Cybertron but saving all others. Vector Prime refused, claiming that they could restore balance to the multiverse without saving Unicron. {{storylink|Balancing Act, Pt 5}} Though Vector Prime was able to defeat Ramjet and seal him away in another dimension, {{storylink|Revelations Part 1}} this act weakened him considerably. The guardian of space and time returned to the Autobots on [[Earth]] and left Cybertron in the care of [[Over-Run (Armada)|Over-Run]], a Mini-Con who had taken the reins of what remained of Vector Sigma. {{storylink|Revelations Part 2}}

While on Cybertron of [[Primax 509.28 Epsilon]], [[Nexus Prime]] decided to tell his companion [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] about the ancient artifact he was trying to find, the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]]. As he explained to Aquarius that the artifact was originally intended to serve good Transformers, the face of Vector Prime flashed through his mind. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}} Eventually, Nexus succeeded in finding all the pieces of the shattered sword, and united the rebuilt blade with the [[Terminus Blade]] with the intention of strengthening the multiverse and making the walls between dimensions less permeable. Vector Prime and the rest of the Thirteen were drawn to this momentous event from across space and time, but as a consequence of Nexus's actions, Vector and his brothers and sisters ceased to exist as multiversal singularities. They were splintered into infinite variations of themselves and scattered throughout the multiverse, sentient reoccurring themes each appearing in their own way, if at all, in all the worlds of the multiverse. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

====''Cybertron'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Richard Newman]] (English), [[Show Hayami]] (Japanese)|[[Joscha Fischer-Antze]] (German), [[Sepuh Apikian]] (Armenian), [[Ossi Valo]] (Finnish), [[Fredrik Beckmann]] (Swedish), [[Michel Dodane]] (French), [[Davide Marzi]] (Italian), [[Salvador Serrano]] (Castilian Spanish), [[José Mendez]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Mariusz Leszczyński]] (Polish), [[Phil Cruz]] (Tagalog, HERO TV dub)}}

[[File:Cyb ep47 outside of time.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Twelfth Doctor, Transformerfied]]

Vector Prime spent much of his existence outside the linear flow of time, observing reality from afar. When he sensed the effect of the [[Unicron Singularity]] upon the timestream, he attempted to voyage further into the future to see what the outcome would be, only to strike a barrier which he found he could not pass beyond. Peering through the barrier and seeing only endless nothingness, Vector Prime realized that the black hole would go on to consume all space and time if he did not finally leave the safety of his extra-dimensional realm and re-enter the linear flow of time to help seal it. {{storylink|Guardian (episode)|Guardian}} Appearing in the skies over Cybertron, Vector Prime immediately made contact with Optimus Prime and his Autobot team, making them aware of the Cyber Planet Keys and how they could stop the black hole. As Vector Prime then synchronized his map of the keys’ locations to the current arrangement of the cosmos, he was approached by the evil [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]], who exploited Vector Prime's diminished memory of the Autobot/Decepticon conflict and convinced him to hand over the map. Alas, Vector Prime realized his mistake just as the other Autobots arrived to attack Megatron. The villain made good his escape, but not before his lieutenant [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] caused Autobot warrior [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] to be caught in the black hole's gravitational pull, forcing Vector Prime to open a portal to save him, transporting him to [[Earth]].

[[File:Cyb ep1 loris shirt.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|"This is Clara, my carer. She cares so I don't have to."]]

Vector Prime joined with [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]'s Autobots in relocating to Earth. En route, Vector Prime explained to Optimus that the black hole threatened not only Cybertron, but would go on to swallow all of creation if not dealt with. He then doubled back, explaining he had to retrieve the cosmic map Megatron had stolen. Optimus Prime insisted on having [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]], [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]], and [[Overhaul (Cybertron)|Overhaul]] accompany him, deeming the task too dangerous for Vector Prime to handle on his own. Vector Prime's team came upon Megatron and Starscream inside an asteroid belt. While Jetfire and Vector Prime dealt with Starscream, Overhaul and Hot Shot tackled Megatron. Unfortunately, the Decepticons proved to be simply too powerful, and the Autobots were unable to prevent them from escaping once more. Vector Prime then rendezvoused with Optimus back on Earth, where the Autobots had already befriended three human children. Upon meeting these humans, Vector Prime recognized a symbol decorating the T-shirt of the female, [[Lori Jiménez|Lori]], as the pattern of the Omega Lock, the device that focused the power of the Cyber Planet Keys, and deduced that it lay in hiding somewhere on Earth. {{storylink|Fallen (episode)|Fallen}} {{storylink|Inferno (episode)|Inferno}}

Vector Prime then aided his Autobot allies in building their base of operations on Earth. During the blasting that preceded construction, he discovered that the children were able to hear the [[Omega Frequency]], the trans-sonic signal given off by the Omega Lock that was inaudible to the Autobots. This would make them invaluable in the search for the artifact. As the base neared completion, Megatron and Starscream were detected heading towards Earth once again. The base's stealth coating had yet to be fully applied, and so Vector Prime joined Optimus, Jetfire, and Hot Shot in keeping the villains out of sensor range while the rest of the team finished this task. Vector Prime used the power of a Cyber Planet Key to send the Decepticon leader and his lackey fleeing, awing his comrades. Having deemed them worthy, Vector Prime then granted Optimus, Hot Shot, and Jetfire the ability to also summon their own Cyber Planet Keys. {{storylink|Haven}}

Walking in on the Autobots receiving word that the latest attempt at collapsing the black hole had failed, Vector Prime reiterated that they needed to track down the keys to the Omega Lock. The Autobots were doubtful at first, but Red Alert spoke up on Vector Prime's behalf, convincing his comrades that the keys should be their priority. Thundercracker was then detected by the airforce, forcing Vector Prime to help take him down before he caused too much trouble. He saved two human pilots from the Decepticon by opening a temporal portal for them to escape through. Megatron and Starscream then joined the battle, and explained that they had already found the first of the Cyber Planet Keys before they were forced away. {{storylink|Hidden}}

Further studies on the Omega Lock's pattern around the world led the Autobots to a museum in Mexico. While Vector Prime studied the artifacts within it, the rest of the team held off Thundercracker and Starscream, who had been tracking them. This Omega Lock turned out to be merely an imitation, but Vector Prime's scans yielded the co-ordinates of [[Velocitron]], the Speed Planet, resting place of the first Cyber Planet Key. Using his sword in conjunction with Optimus Prime's Matrix, Vector Prime opened a portal to this other world, through which Hot Shot and Red Alert were sent as an advance party. {{storylink|Landmine (episode)|Landmine}} The search for the Omega Lock next took the Autobots to the [[United Kingdom|British Isles]]. They excavated an ancient druid site, only to be met with another dead end. Once more, they were pestered by Starscream and Thundercracker, who managed to isolate Vector Prime and Optimus from their ground-based reinforcements. Though Starscream was fighting more strategically however, the Primes managed to lure their opponents close enough to the ground to overpower them and force them into another retreat. {{storylink|Space (episode)|Space}} Vector Prime teamed up with Landmine to continue searching for the Omega Lock, but returned from their excursion with nothing to show for it. That evening, Lori alerted the Autobots to a strange beacon emanating from a nearby forest, depicting the Lock's "Atlantis Pattern". Vector Prime and the team sped off to what seemed like a lucky break at last, only to find that the signal had been created by the Decepticons to lure them into a trap. As Optimus took on the enemy, Jolt reported that humans were inbound to their location. As neither side wanted to be discovered by more of the locals, the battle was brought to an abrupt halt, and all combatants withdrew. {{storylink|Speed}}

[[File:Cyb ep9 time slip.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.67|But where's Cringer, his fearless friend?]]

Jetfire and Vector Prime were contacted by Scattorshot and Optimus to alert them of an emergency in [[Rockville]]: the nearby [[Mount McDermott]] was about to collapse into an underwater reservoir, which would lead to a catastrophic flooding of the entire town. Thankfully, Coby came up with a plan to drain the reservoir, and the Autobots created a controlled collapse of the mountain to prevent further harm from coming to Rockville. After this plan was successfully implemented, Vector Prime congratulated his comrades on a job well done. {{storylink|Collapse}}

Returning to the search for the Omega Lock, Vector Prime next headed for a tropical island, allowing the children to tag along for a mini-vacation of sorts. This turned out to be another false lead. Before heading off to their next destination, Vector Prime took the time to discuss his temporal powers with the children, informing them that though they might seem impressive, they had become limited in his old age. The group next headed for the [[Sahara]], where they were joined by Optimus and Jetfire. There, they found what appeared to be the Omega Lock on open display within some ancient ruins. But the Decepticons had been following them, and the battle for the artifact had catastrophic consequences: Megatron's managed to kill the Mini-Cons! Distraught over their untimely demise, Vector Prime drew on a greater portion of his powers for the first time in ages. He rewound time to save the Mini-Cons, though the resulting drain on his systems left him too weak to continue fighting. The lock in question was proven to be a fake. {{storylink|Time (episode)|Time}}

[[File:Cyb ep11 control room.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]

After rescuing an Autobot civilian from Thundercracker, the Autobots were led to another iteration of the Atlantis pattern. The inscription detailed the coordinates to the next planet where a Cyber Planet Key was hidden: the [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Jungle Planet]]. Vector Prime opened a dimension gate to transport Overhaul and Landmine to this new world, but was struck by the returning Thundercracker before Landmine could traverse the portal. Due to his injuries, Vector Prime couldn't open up another dimension gate, leaving Overhaul stranded on an alien world alone. {{storylink|Search (episode)|Search}} Shortly afterwards, another Autobot civilian alerted Optimus Prime's team to another sighting of the Atlantis seal, this time on the ocean bottom in the [[Bermuda Triangle]]. Making their way underwater, the Autobots explored the area. Vector Prime, the Mini-Cons and the children found an entrance leading to a control room, and the elder Cybertronian concluded that Atlantis was in fact an ancient Cybertronian ship that had crashed in Earth's prehistory. In order to keep it out of the Decepticons' reach, Vector Prime activated the craft and teleported it away with only himself, the kids and Mini-Cons aboard. {{storylink|Deep}} Using the children's sensitivity to the Omega Frequency, Vector Prime tracked down the Omega Lock in the bowels of the ''Atlantis''. Though Megatron appeared to claim the relic for himself, activating the ship's self-destruct mechanism in the process, Optimus caught up to his old foe and dueled him for the Omega Lock. Meanwhile, Vector Prime took the children to safety. Optimus emerged victorious. When Vector Prime laid hands on the Omega Lock afterwards, it created a new spacebridge network, linking all of the planets hosting Cyber Planet Keys. Vector Prime accompanied Optimus and Landmine to the Speed Planet in response to a distress call from Red Alert. {{storylink|Ship}}

There, he observed [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] try to win the world's Cyber Planet Key in a racing tournament. {{storylink|Hero (episode)|Hero}} He did not actually participate-mainly because his vehicle mode lacked wheels-but he offered encouragement and advice when he could. {{storylink|Race}} The races were intense enough to get even him worked up, although he did his best to restrain his enthusiasm to Optimus Prime's mild amusement. {{storylink|Detour (episode)|Detour}}

[[File:Cyb ep16 feed me seymour.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|But whatever they offer you, don't feed the plants!]]

While Hot Shot trained for a particularly grueling track, the Autobots received a transmission urging them to come to the [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Jungle Planet]] to help [[Overhaul (Cybertron)|Overhaul]], sent there in advance to seek out the second Cyber Planet Key. [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] offered to go, but Vector Prime and Optimus decided to make the trip, as they could open the dimension gate necessary to go there anyway. When they arrived, they were attacked by a massive plant monster, but Overhaul-now in the form of Leobreaker-saved them with his claws. Vector Prime joined Optimus in explaining the black hole's threat to Leobreaker's new friends, [[Snarl (Cybertron)|Snarl]] and [[Backstop (Cybertron)|Backstop]], but was confused to learn that they had not, in fact, sent a distress signal at all. He then joined the others in confronting world leader [[Scourge (Cybertron)|Scourge]], battling [[Sideways (Armada)|Sideways]] (who had sent the distress signal simply to watch the factions battle) and witnessing Optimus and Leobreaker's first combination into Savage Claw Mode. {{storylink|Savage}}

[[File:Cyb ep9 meteor attack.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Hitting you where the sun definitely shines.]]

Soon after, Vector Prime and the other Autobots met Scourge and Megatron's forces in another battle, lured into a canyon thanks to Sideways's trickery. He was also among the 'bots who watched Leobreaker's attempted interrogation of the two-faced trickster when the battle ended, {{storylink|Sand}} and returned to Velocitron in time to stop Megatron from stealing the Planet Cup after Hot Shot defeated Override in the final race. {{storylink|Champion}}

While most of the Autobots went back to Earth to investigate a disturbance created by the Omega Lock, Vector Prime returned to the Jungle Planet with Optimus Prime and Leobreaker, intending to secure the second Cyber Planet Key. {{storylink|Ice}} Their attempt to reason with Scourge failed miserably, leading to Leobreaker separating from Optimus mid-speech and futilely attacking the dragon-bot himself. With the lion storming off in a huff, Vector Prime accompanied Optimus back to Backstop's cave, where he learned of Scourge's beginnings as a student of Backstop's. Vector Prime was also present at the volcano Leobreaker had chosen to seclude himself in, and witnessed his reconciliation with Optimus Prime, the latter at last deciding to face Scourge in battle. {{storylink|Honor}} The Autobots ran into a Decepticon ambush en route to Scourge's temple, and Vector Prime had to use his sword to free the beast 'bots and Hot Shot from a net. He later stood back and watched Optimus and Leobreaker finally defeat Scourge in battle, winning the right to take the Cyber Planet Key. {{storylink|Primal (Cybertron)|Primal}}

[[File:Cyb ep22 autobots together.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]

Unfortunately, Megatron led his Decepticons on an immediate counterattack, desperate to obtain the Planet Key. While most of the Autobots fended off Starscream and Thundercracker, Vector Prime came up with a plan to splinter the Decepticons. He distributed boxes amongst the Autobots, with the key's location unknown to even them, and bade them scatter to force the Decepticons to spread out. Vector Prime himself came face-to-visor with Sideways, intent on acquiring the "key". The enigmatic jet managed to steal the box, warping around Vector Prime and bypassing Safeguard with his faction-switching abilities, but learned it was a fake when he found naught but a rock inside. He later joined the rest of the Autobots in fending off Megatron and Starscream's attempted theft of the true key. {{storylink|Trust (Cybertron)|Trust}}

[[File:Cyb ep22 shell game.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1]]

The insertion of the Jungle Planet Key into the Omega Lock transported the Autobots into a strange dimension that Vector Prime identified as the consciousness of Primus. The god himself briefly spoke to them through the Mini-Cons before fading away, and a signal again alerted them to something in the North Pole. {{storylink|Trap}} Unfortunately, what came out of the North was Starscream, Sideways, and ''legions'' of [[Ancient Decepticon]]s, hell-bent on finding the Cyber Planet Key hidden on Earth. Vector Prime soon joined the fray, using his sword to warp in the main Autobot forces to back Snarl up. The Autobots were eventually forced to fall back, but made two new allies in the form of [[Crosswise (Cybertron)|Crosswise]] and [[Evac (Cybertron)|Evac]]. {{storylink|Invasion (episode)|Invasion}}

Knowing that Starscream would come looking for the Omega Lock and the other two Keys, the Autobots established a communications blackout, using a direct link to the human telephone network to keep the refugee Autobots calm. Vector Prime soon brought up another worry, however-the children and Mini-Cons were missing! The kids soon returned, bringing the eccentric scientist [[Lucy Suzuki]] with them, but [[Jolt (Cybertron)|Jolt]]'s advance transmission about the government's knowledge of the Autobots allowed Sideways to find the Autobot's base. With no other option, Optimus Prime led a full retreat to Velocitron while Evac retrieved the Cyber Planet Key of Earth, but Starscream followed them up the space bridge and launched a one-bot assault to claim the artifacts for himself. Vector Prime was the last to stand in the Decepticon's way, vowing to give up his spark before he relinquished the Lock. Despite being blackened and battered from previous attacks, Starscream still managed to take down the ancient guardian of time, stealing the Lock and all three Planet Keys. {{storylink|Retreat}}

Vector Prime was present at the Autobot's base when it received a strange signal after Starscream inserted the third Cyber Planet Key. Enlisting the aid of [[Red Alert (Armada)|Red Alert]] to decrypt it, he reported that it came from Cybertron itself, instructing them to return the Lock and Keys to the planet itself. Unfortunately, the part about ''what'' happens when the Lock is returned was lost due to interference from the black hole-and worse yet, Megatron's Decepticons were on their way to Earth to settle their own grudge with Starscream. Vector Prime generated a warp to speed his allies' trip to [[Niagara Falls]], and found himself battling the traitorous Autobot [[Mudflap (Cybertron)|Mudflap]]. He was shocked to discover that Landmine had practically raised the disgruntled warrior back on Cybertron...and even more dismayed to see Megatron cut down Hot Shot, Red Alert, and Scattorshot with a single volley from his newly unlocked Cyber Key machine gun. {{storylink|Revelation (episode)|Revelation}}

[[File:Cyb ep27 giant vector.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtkGtXtDlQA Lets go on a journey / a journey through all time / a TIME that's changing all the TIME / it's TIME to go to TIME!]]]

While others kept Megatron busy, Vector Prime evacuated the fallen warriors, assuring the pessimistic Scattorshot that they'd be fine. Upon returning to the battlefield, however, he grimly informed Optimus Prime that the situation of the trio was dire at best. Thankfully, Hot Shot, Scattorshot, and Red Alert recovered and reformatted, returning as the powerful [[Cybertron Defense Team (Cybertron)|Cybertron Defense Team]]. They kept the Decepticons occupied while Vector Prime warped Optimus, Override, and Evac to Starscream's newly discovered island base. {{storylink|Critical}}

Megatron's forces soon made a break for the island, causing Vector Prime to warp the rest of his team into the fray as well. He and Optimus pursued Megatron into a volcano, and Vector Prime saved Optimus' life by blocking Megatron's shots with his own body. They would have both met their ends nonetheless, had [[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Saber]] not chosen that moment to join the party as well. In response to Coby's warning that the black hole was distorting the space around Cybertron, Vector Prime would suggest sending an advance team to clear a path for the return of the Omega Lock. {{storylink|Assault}}

[[File:Cyb ep28 vector takes the hit.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]

The two Primes continued their descent into the volcano, soon joined by Leobreaker. Vector Prime used a small warp to redirect one of Sideways's traps, hitting Scourge instead of them. When they finally met Sideways in battle, Vector Prime had the novel idea of attaching Safeguard to the warping enigma's back, allowing him to detect where Sideways would appear. When Starscream manifested himself as a giant, courtesy of Primus' stolen power, Vector Prime was trapped in the volcano, unable to move and with his sword out of reach. Wing Saber came to his rescue, and the pair escaped with the Omega Lock after fending off [[Thunderblast (Decepticon)|Thunderblast]]. {{storylink|Starscream (episode)|Starscream}} After seeing the Lock off with Leobreaker, Evac, and Override, he continued fighting against Starscream, and witnessed Optimus' combination with Wing Saber into Sonic Wing Mode to defeat the behemoth. {{storylink|United (episode)|United}}

With Starscream defeated, Vector Prime joined the rest of the Autobots in crossing the space bridge to Cybertron. They engaged Megatron, who managed to escape with the Omega Lock, but Optimus Prime battled him for possession of the Lock and keys within [[Fire dimension|Megatron's personal fiery dimension]]. At Optimus' order, Vector Prime used his portal-generating abilities to collapse the dimension in upon itself, forcing Megatron to use all his power just to keep it open. Combining his own power with that of the Lock, Vector Prime fired a beam straight into the occupied Decepticon, apparently destroying Megatron. Vector Prime later encouraged Optimus to place the Lock within Cybertron-and the planet started coming apart beneath their feet. After evacuating the team to a nearby moon, Vector Prime realized that the planet wasn't separating; it was transforming into Primus himself! {{storylink|Cybertron (episode)|Cybertron}}

After Primus revealed that the fourth Cyber Planet Key rested on [[Gigantion]], homeworld of the Recon Mini-Con Team, Vector Prime recounted how he met the diminutive Transformers when they were lost playing hide-and-seek. He joined his friends in confronting the Decepticons (tenuously led by Scourge), and then joined everyone in gaping at Starscream's brazen attack on Primus himself. Vector Prime doubted Starscream's sanity for daring to attack their creator, but Primus' disposal of the treacherous jet allowed Vector Prime to finally regain the Planet Map. {{storylink|Balance}}

Sadly, a series of problems presented themselves after this small victory; Megatron returned in a mysterious ghost-like form, and the Mini-Cons seemingly disappeared along with the children. Vector Prime left to investigate the latter development, and reviewed the security camera footage at their headquarters. Discovering that Sideways had stolen the Mini-Cons and that the children had pursued him, Vector Prime requested Scattorshot and Red Alert's aid in locating them. {{storylink|Darkness (episode)|Darkness}} Continuing to work as the battle raged outside {{storylink|Memory (Cybertron)|Memory}}, they finally received a signal from the kids, reporting that they were trapped on the ''Atlantis'' in the shadow of Earth's moon. Vector Prime led Scattorshot and Red Alert through a warp gate to the ship and caught an escape pod carrying Coby, Lori, and [[Six-Speed (Cybertron)|Six-Speed]]. Unfortunately, the other pod (carrying Bud, Jolt, and [[Reverb (Cybertron)|Reverb]]) was caught in the warp field of the ''Atlantis'' before the Autobots could retrieve it and was teleported away to parts unknown. {{storylink|Escape (episode)|Escape}}

[[File:Cyb ep36 autobots revealed.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Predicting that the ''Atlantis'' would be heading for Gigantion, Vector Prime reassured Coby and Lori that their friends would be fine in the warp gate to the planet, thanks to their flexible minds. Transformers, however, are not so flexible, and so Red Alert began working on a stabilizing program, partially based on Vector Prime's sword. Vector Prime would join Optimus Prime in convincing the kids' doubting parents to allow Coby and Lori to join them on the trip to Gigantion. He also denied their fathers' wish to go as well, citing the requirement of an open mind (which the adults had just proven they lacked), but joined Optimus in promising to protect the children with his life. {{storylink|Family}}

With the children's assistance cemented, Vector Prime began rigorously studying the Planet Map for the location of the dimensional rift that led to Gigantion. He discovered the gate just after Primus defeated a superpowered Starscream, {{storylink|Titans}} informing the others that the gate was open for only a few days every year. After again reminding Coby and Lori about their immunity to the warp's effects, he helped load supplies onto the newly arrived ''[[Ogygia (Cybertron)|Ogygia]]'' starship. After receiving his copy of the stabilizing program via injection (and observing Primus shooting down Jetfire's attempt to avoid getting one), Vector Prime boarded the ''Ogygia'' as it entered the warp, warning everyone that even the slightest moment of doubt or fear could destabilize the tunnel. After an unpleasant encounter with the Starscream-controlled ''Atlantis'', he joined his comrades in blasting a hole through a massive asteroid in the ''Ogygia''{{'}}s path before finally arriving in the dimension of Gigantion. {{storylink|Warp}}

After landing on the Giant Planet, Vector Prime joined the search for the Cyber Planet Key, and came up empty-handed. When the Autobots met planet leader [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|Metroplex]] and his lieutenant [[Quickmix (Cybertron)|Quickmix]], neither of whom allowed them access to the lower levels of the planet, Vector Prime attempted to create a warp, but found he could not due to security measures around the planet. After a confrontation with Megatron's goons, now including rebellious Gigantion native [[Menasor (Cybertron)|Menasor]] and enigmatic impersonator [[Soundwave (Cybertron)|Soundwave]], Metroplex and Quickmix were more willing to cooperate, {{storylink|Giant}} but admitted that they deleted all data on the lower levels from their memories to escape their past.

[[File:Cyb ep45 save the universe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Undeterred, the team set up equipment to help Vector Prime determine the general location of the Cyber Planet Key. Using the Omega Lock, Vector Prime found the Key, but also realized that someone else had drawn power from it. Fearing the worst, the Autobots split into teams, with Vector Prime accompanying Optimus and Metroplex. Unfortunately, this allowed them to be picked off by Megatron, who had used the Cyber Planet Key to upgrade himself. By the time Optimus's team caught up with the Decepticon leader, he had dealt with every other Autobot, completed his transformation, and renamed himself Galvatron! In this state, he struck down Vector Prime with a single blow, and only the combined strength of Optimus Prime and Metroplex was enough to force his retreat. {{storylink|Fury (Cybertron)|Fury}}

When Scattorshot determined that there were four potential routes to the Cyber Planet Key, the Autobots again split up to cover all of the paths. Vector Prime teamed up with Optimus, Metroplex, Bud, and the Mini-Cons to travel down one of the trails. He joined Optimus in pursuit of Ransack and Crumplezone when the bumbling lackeys snatched Jolt, unable to fire for fear of hurting his friend, and gave Coby an approving thumbs-up when he dramatically transformed [[Cobybot|his personal mech]] to save Jolt. {{storylink|City}} After that, the journey was mostly uneventful, save for watching the Velocitronian partners in grime get beaten up and sent off (repeatedly), {{storylink|Ambush (episode)|Ambush}} and meeting up with Lori and Override. {{storylink|Challenge}}

When Bud and the Mini-Cons accidentally fell down a secret passage, Vector Prime remained with the group, as Optimus claimed they would be more effective as a team searching for their lost comrades. When they found their small friends, Bud had given Scourge an eye-opening talk, and the Jungle Planet leader immediately challenged them all to a duel (for reasons only they seemed to understand). Vector Prime was the second opponent, and easily defeated the dragon, who nonetheless challenged the next comer with enthusiasm. {{storylink|Scourge (episode)|Scourge}}

[[File:Cyb ep45 matrix glow.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|"Two hearts beat as one..."]]

At last, the Autobots reached the central, organic layer of Gigantion, where the Cyber Planet Key rested in the ancient starship ''[[Lemuria (Cybertron)|Lemuria]]''. Unfortunately, both Galvatron and Starscream chose that moment to make their appearances, and the former's taunts were enough to force Optimus into a breakdown of self-doubt. Finding his best logic to the contrary useless, Vector Prime was forced to drastic measures: ''punching'' Optimus in the face. Berating his peer for his arrogance, Vector Prime explained that Optimus' men trust him with their lives, but ''he'' has to trust ''them'' to do their jobs. His words snapped Prime out of his momentary funk, and the duo continued on in time to see a super-sized Landmine defeat Starscream and engage Galvatron. The combined strength of the Autobots was enough to send the Decepticon leader into retreat, leaving Optimus to claim the Cyber Planet Key and thank Vector Prime for his support (and comment on his mean right hook). {{storylink|Optimus (episode)|Optimus}}

Vector Prime personally inserted the final key into the Omega Lock, opening a path to their home universe (via opening the planet layers and creating a space bridge). Barring their path, however, was Galvatron, intent on taking the now-completed Lock and achieving his dark plans. Vector Prime moved to stop him, but was aghast to learn that Galvatron could warp-as well as summon a massive blast that sent all the Autobots sprawling. With the Lock in Decepticon hands, Vector Prime made a final attempt to take it back, but Galvatron simply electrocuted the ancient Transformer through his own sword and knocked him back. Perhaps due to this beating, Vector Prime was only able to watch Galvatron's apocalyptic confrontation with Starscream and subsequent escape through the space bridge. He theorized that Starscream (and the two Planet X survivors also caught in the final clash of superpowered Decepticons) had been blasted into ''another'' dimension rather than destroyed, but bigger concerns arose when the gate between universes closed, leaving the Autobots stranded on Gigantion. {{storylink|Showdown (Cybertron)|Showdown}}

[[File:Cyb ep47 vector prime dies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|I'll see you in another life, brother!]]

In the wake of this shock, Vector Prime was the only Autobot with any ideas on what to do, but Jolt, seemingly aware of what was coming, insisted against it. Instead, an attempt to create a space bridge generator was made, but Vector Prime was forced to destroy it after it released hordes of [[Laserbeak (Cybertron)|bird-like drone robots]]. Optimus assured Vector Prime that he had done the right thing, but it was realized by all that the only way back was through the warp, which would not open again for a year. With no other options, Vector Prime revealed the only way to get back to Cybertron was for him to reverse time to the point where the warp to Gigantion was open. Jolt cut in to point out that the effort would be enough to destroy him-in the conventional sense, anyways. Despite this, Vector Prime was adamant, knowing that the black hole would destroy all of time itself if left unchecked. In preparation for this final act, he released Safeguard, telling his old partner to live on Cybertron with the other Mini-Cons, gave his Planet Map to Bud, and told Optimus Prime that it was an honor to work with him. As the three Autobot starships took off, Vector Prime gave it his all to get his allies back to Cybertron, finally returning them to their own dimension before his energy gave out and his body dissolved into green particles of light. {{storylink|Guardian (episode)|Guardian}} Primus was aware of Vector Prime's sacrifice and assured Optimus Prime that Vector Prime would live on and that he would be honoured by the closing of the black hole. {{storylink|Homecoming (episode)|Homecoming}}

[[File:Cyb ep49 vector ghost.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Remember, the force will be with you. Always...]]

However, as Vector Prime had already explained to the Autobots, since he had existed for most of his life outside of time, he would ''always'' exist there, able to observe the passage of time, even though he could now no longer enter the linear universe. He swore to always watch over Optimus Prime and the Autobots, and would be there for them in spirit when their need was greatest. The first such moment came during Optimus Prime's pivotal moment within the black hole, as he appeared alongside the Autobot leader as he reached for the Omega Lock. {{storylink|End}}

[[File:Vector Primevs.Megatron.JPG|upright=1.4|thumb|Battling... IN THE NEXT DIMENSION!]]
Subsequently, the black hole was sealed, but Galvatron was not yet through, and challenged Prime to a final one-on-one duel. During the battle, as Galvatron stood poised to deliver the final blow, Vector Prime's Planet Map flew from the pocket of the watching Bud and moved between the two combatants, blocking Galvatron's blow. Vector Prime spoke to Optimus once more, promising to always be there for him, and bestowing upon him the greatest of gifts—his own sword, [[Rhisling]], with which Optimus Prime defeated and destroyed Galvatron once and for all. {{storylink|Unfinished}} Not long afterwards, as the Autobots departed on a mission across the universe to create a new [[space bridge]], Vector Prime appeared to Optimus once more, smiling at his old friend. {{storylink|Beginning}}

Vector Prime was last seen dueling Galvatron in an existence after death. {{storylink|Beginning}}
{{-}}

====''Cybertron'' toy bios====
Inspired by {{w|The Time Machine (1960 film)|an old movie he once saw on Earth}}, Vector Prime once picked up a hobby whereby he would phase in and out of time to visit a small-town store in the Midwest, looking in the window every day. In 1896, he "befriended" a gentleman in a fine suit who was always standing still in the window. For the next 110 years, Vector Prime visited the store to see the gentleman's different outfits. Eventually, after changing owners, the store closed down, but Vector Prime regarded this temporary diversion fondly.<ref>Galaxy Force Vector Prime's [[Cyber Key Codes|Cyber Key Code]] [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/codes/index.html secret bio content]</ref>

====''Galaxy Force'' manga====
When the [[Unicron Singularity|Grand Black Hole]] began to devour Cybertron, Vector Prime opened a warp and sent [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] to Earth. When the humans Coby, Bud, and Lori failed to repair Landmine, Vector Prime arrived through a warp and thanked the kids for their efforts before repairing Landmine himself. Vector Prime revealed he was unable to save Optimus Prime, but his despair was distracted by the human children bombarding him with questions about Transformers (sound familiar?). Then Megatron showed up and used his hypnotic powers to mesmerize Vector into handing over the Map to the [[Cyber Planet Key|Ancient Power]]. Luckily, Coby was able to yell loud enough to snap Vector out of it. And then Optimus Prime showed up, alive and well, and forced Megatron into retreat. {{storylink|Touchdown! Optimus Prime}}

{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|The Devil's Dogfight! Coby's Courage}} {{storylink|Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime}} {{storylink|Galaxy Force Mission.8}} {{storylink|Galaxy Force Mission.9}}}}

====''Beast Wars Reborn''====
[[File:Bwreborn text.jpg|thumb|"Do you have any idea at all why you and I are currently divided into first and second ranks? It’s because there’s a complete wall between us that you’ll never get past."]]

When his brother [[Logos Prime]] plucked the [[spark]]s of [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] out of their home dimension following [[Great Transformation|their deaths]] and brought them into the "Unicron Trilogy" dimension with the intention of choosing one of them to be his successor and the recipient of his power, Vector Prime was forced to intervene. {{storylink|Master of the Game}} Remembering his sibling as a noble being, Vector was horrified to learn that he planned to pass his power to the evil Megatron, and the two did battle on the astral plane. {{storylink|Planetfall (BWR)|Planetfall}}

====''Kiss Players''====
[[File:KPVectorPrime.jpg|left|thumb|"Scary-Faced Gear Man", she calls him.]]
When the human [[Kiss Players (singing group)|Kiss Players]] became scattered across the dimensions after their vessel [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Brave Maximus]] collided into the "wall of time" while pursuing a mysterious golden hand through the timestream, [[Shaoshao Li]] found herself in another universe, around [[Aurex 105.08 Alpha|the time of the search]] for the Cyber Planet Keys. Finding herself on the deserted Cybertron, she was set upon by a horde of [[Scrapmetal (race)|Scrapmetal]], but was then saved by Safeguard. He explained what had befallen her, then Vector Prime showed up and used his sword to slash a hole in spacetime itself, from which the golden hand—actually that of Primus himself—emerged to pull Shaoshao through. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 50|Kiss Players #50}} {{storylink|Sparkbots Volume 3}}
{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
====As a multiversal singularity====

[[File:Ask Vector Prime Facebook.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Vector Prime: causing wiki headaches since 2015.]]

At some undetermined point in Vector Prime's life, he took the time to answer a series of questions about himself, other Transformers, and the ''Transformers: Cybertron'' toyline in a recurring feature on Hasbro's official ''Transformers'' website, to be reprised in ''[[Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II]]'', ''[[Transformers Animated: The Complete AllSpark Almanac|The Complete AllSpark Almanac]]'', and a [[Fun Publications]]-provided Facebook account, called [[Ask Vector Prime]]. Because of his mastery of time and space, it is impossible to determine when exactly he communicated with our universe, but it may have been during the course of events in the ''Cybertron'' animated series, as he answered questions regarding those events and other characters who he had not met before the series began.

Vector revealed much about himself in these pages, including much new information about his early life. He fondly remembered all his brothers, even knowing how three of them turned into dread monsters, and listened with rapt attention to the [[Liege Maximo]]'s tales of the [[Covenant (group)|Covenant]] and [[Primon]], stories he was not even sure were real or just legends. He and his brothers and sisters spent an extended period of time on Earth in ancient Greece, where the [[holomatter]] avatar he used formed the basis for human legends of {{w|Hermes}}, while Rhisling was likewise interpreted as the {{w|Caduceus}}.

[[File:WatchRoboCard.jpg|188px|thumb|right|Available in the finest vending machines across the country.]]

Following the final falling out between the Primes, after the shattering of the Star Saber, Vector helped hide away the five components that [[Nexus Prime]] had split himself into, then went into hiding in the universe [[Aurex 404.11 Kappa]] and locked away all memories of his trauma. Out of necessity, he took a much simpler form, one that turned into a device similar to a wristwatch. There, he became the Autobot leader and wielded the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. He had a bodyguard, [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]], during his Matrix-bearer days, and the two became [[Transformer romance|close]] despite the difference in rank (and his initial reluctance to act on his feelings for a subordinate). After leading the Autobots to victory in the [[second Cybertronian war (Armada)|second Cybertronian war]] against such foes as [[Devron (Armada)|Devron]], [[Megazarak (Armada)|Megazarak]], and the [[Destructon]]s, he was called on by the [[Chronarchitect]] to help fix damage to Time itself! Reluctantly, he passed the Matrix to [[Guardian Major]].

With a group of fellows, the [[Time Warrior (AVP)|Time Warriors]]—Scorpia, medical officer [[Kaltor]], intelligence officer [[Autoceptor]], and quantum scientist [[Deceptor]]—Vector Prime faced foe and threat innumerable, with some timelines only knowing him as "First Autobot" or, when shortened, "Autobot" as a slur, meaning his watch self has often been mistaken for a person ''called'' Autobot. Eventually the Warriors discovered their true enemy, [[Mogahn the Mass]], an indescribable entity that absorbed entire star systems into itself. In the final battle, Vector found his mind entering the [[Realm of the Primes]] and learning his true identity once more; [[Amalgamous Prime|Adaptus]] gifted him the power to create the mighty sword Rhisling, and he smote Mogahn so hard that his remains went back in time and detonated in [[the Big Bang]]. Now once more aware of his true role in the multiverse, Vector Prime had to say a tearful goodbye to Scorpia. He tries not to remember her and does not like talking about it. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/10 and 2015/07/12}}

In another adventure, the GoBot '''Vec-Tor''' was forced to intervene after the always-mischievous [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] recruited [[Renegade#Gong|Gong]] to destabilize two universes, using the [[Omega Lock]]s far beneath [[Gobotron]]. After warping to a [[Primax]] universe, Vector Prime managed to undo the damage before Unicron could devour Cybertron, allowing history to progress along its proper course. {{storylink|Echoes and Fragments}}

Notable other revelations:

*His favorite human authors were [[Peter David]] and [[Alan Dean Foster]], though he seldom had time to read.
*He was a fan of the [[Dinobot (disambiguation)|Dinobot]]s.
*His favorite planet was Cybertron, and his favorite city there was [[Apophenia]].
*He was over nine billion years old, almost as old as the galaxy itself.
*He did not need to shave.
*He used to "boogie down" with [[Disco ball]] when he was younger, but not so much any more. He still enjoyed the symphonies created by the [[Eurythma]] natives. On the other hand, he was not a fan of the [[Knights of Unicron (band)|Knights of Unicron]], since he found their name tasteless.
*He found the [[Viron]] universal cluster to be underrated.
*He was unable to visit the [[Quadwal]] universal cluster.
*He knows which universes have manifested as fiction in Quadwal.
*Despite having traveled far and wide, he could not see why kids loved [[Cinnamon Toast Crunch]].
*He feared the [[Elder God]]s.
*He missed Safeguard, as well as Lori, Bud, and Coby.
*If he had to choose an Earth mode, he would choose a dirigible, though he didn't because he was "not here to blend."
*If he had to choose a beast mode, it would be a large sea mammal.
*He was not a fan of dragons.
*He was definitely not [[Santa Claus]].
*He held several misconceptions about humans, such as how long we could survive decapitation, and whether or not they enjoyed molten boron.
*Though he vehemently dismissed the Decepticon ideology, he did find his species too quick to jump to philosophical extremes, and wished they were more apt to find a middle ground.
*He could view events from elsewhere in the [[Omniverse]], and was impressed by the adventures of [[Ben 10]].
*He cherished his relationship with each of his fellow Thirteen original Primes, though he acknowledged that some of them had gone bad.
*He enjoyed [[Energon Z]] and Stanixian energon wine, but did not care for [[Red Energon]].
*The large glowing hole in his chest was a [[Critias Gate]]way.
*He answered to many names, including [[GoBots|Vec-Tor]], [[Convoy (disambiguation)|Vector Convoy]], Vector Maximus, Vector Maximo, and [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Vector Prima-Vectorum]].
*He was in the process of absorbing the memories and experiences of his [[Vector Prime#Aligned continuity family|Uniend counterpart]], which would eventually alter his physical appearance.
*Since there were constant threats across the multiverse, he had no intentions of retiring anytime soon. If Vector Prime ever got the opportunity to settle down without jeopardizing space or time, however, he would like to become a factory and help build useful things.
*He eventually grew tired of having people ask him about the identities of nameless Transformers, and politely suggested that his audience could ask him more cosmically significant questions.
*In his downtime, he enjoys the art galleries of [[Axiom Nexus]].
*Everyone he ever cares about will grow old and die in what, to him, is just the pulse of a spark. Sometimes, he feels alone even when he's in a crowd.
*He had bravely faced down many threats during his life, but he dreaded the prospect of going up against [[Kinetic Solutions Incorporated|KSI]]'s legal department.
*He found biological functions confusing, and thus he had no wish to become a [[synthoid]].
*His favorite anime was ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]''. (don't think about this one too hard)
*His favorite character from [[Babylon 5]] was the ambassador {{w|Kosh Naranek|Kosh}}.
*In some universes, Vector is female. She would purchase ''[[Venus (magazine)|Venus]]'' as a guilty pleasure more often than when she is male. She sounds like [[Star Trek|Kate Mulgrew]].
*Though he doesn't have a birthday, per se, he suggests that a celebration could be held on [[September 19]], the day he first arrived on Earth (and, not coincidentally, the day [[Fallen (episode)|the first episode]] of Cybertron aired in the U.S.)
*He doesn't like talking about the various conflicts and tribulations that his species regularly undergo. He'd rather discuss music, art, and the beautiful things that he's seen across the multiverse; he rarely has the opportunity to talk about the nature of his work to someone on an equal level.
*His favourite human movie was ''[[Back to the Future]]'', due to the performance of lead actor {{w|Eric Stoltz}}.
*Among his favorite human television shows are ''[[Doctor Who]]'', ''[[Mystery Science Theater 3000]]'', ''[[Sliders]]'', and ''[[Quantum Leap]]''.
*He revealed himself as a [[Point One Percenter]] (after the Shroud).

The answers Vector Prime gave on Facebook were delivered at a time when he was living in [[Axiom Nexus]], and was employed to write an advice column position with [[Axiom Nexus News]] in [[Nexus 208.0 Epsilon]]. {{storylink|Axiom Nexus News Editor|Axiom Nexus News Editor, 2015/05/13}} He was viewed by the TransTech public as a respected if a bit eccentric elder 'bot, but ANN journalist [[Rook (TransTech)|Rook]] (correctly) suspected that Vector Prime was merely putting on an act. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/06/05}}

At one point during his tenure at ANN, he was kidnapped and tortured by [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]]. While Vector Prime was indisposed, Sideways took over his inventory of unanswered questions, and offered decidedly unhelpful answers. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Ask Sideways|Ask Sideways, 2015/06/27}} He was able to escape the clutches of Sideways when a [[David Willis|particularly infuriating question]] caused the head of the Herald of Unicron to suddenly explode. However, [[Rook (Armada)|Rook]] was part of the [[Axiom Nexus Security Administration|OZSA]] team sent to rescue Vector Prime, and the Mini-Con initiated a [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] sequence with Sideways, allowing the Herald of Unicron to escape capture via a [[Dimensional Interfacer]]. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/07/08}}

After a few decades of recovery in other universes, Vector Prime resumed his advice columnist position in Axiom Nexus but, after [[Nexus Prime]] summoned him {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/09/30}}, the column fell into the hands of [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|a Grimlock]]. After being falsely told that Vector Prime lied about Dinobots and said they looked like jerks, Grimlock snarled "him look like jerks!" and, in a burst of wit, said Vector was ''old''. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Grim Grams|Grim Grams, 2015/10/03}} When [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] took over the column, he was dismayed to note that he was filling in for a "filthy Guardian do-gooding dunce" and refused to answer any questions about Vec-Tor. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Renegade Rhetoric|Renegade Rhetoric (1), 2015/10/18}}

====As a TransTech====
{{voiceactor|[[Richard Newman]] ("Special Guest")}}

Vector Prime returned to Axiom Nexus soon after "the [[Shroud]]" had cut it off from every other universe. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|ANN live coverage, 2015/10/29}} Little did anyone in the city know, this "Shroud" was the product of Nexus Prime's unification of the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] and [[Terminus Blade]], and the Vector who returned was not truly the same being as the one who had left: per the results of Nexus Prime's actions, the Vector who resumed his duties as host of the column was no longer a multiversal singularity, but a single incarnation of the many that now existed throughout the multiverse. This was a TransTech Vector Prime, native to Axiom Nexus, a "mere" 25 million years old, with a unique history of his own as a professor at the [[Academy of Science and Technology]] who had been the teacher of [[Rhinox (TransTech)|the local Rhinox]], and who had come up with the theoretical foundation of the [[universal stream]] classification system. Accordingly, he was left with only unclear memories of exactly had happened, much like a dream, and was no longer aware of his original nature: he believed his exploits as one of the Thirteen had happened to the (possibly newly created) other Vector Primes.

[[Image:AVP Vector and Scorpia do Nebulos.jpg|thumb|300px|right|That's Vector's holomatter disguise in the centre, but we get the feeling he'll change it a few times.]]

Briefly leaving his column in the hands of [[Spacewarp]] while he responded to a summons from the city's Ministry of Higher Dimensional Sciences, Vector Prime's experience with multiversal travel led to him taking part in an Axiom Nexus scheme to try to establish contact with one of the nine fundamental realities: specifically, [[Primax 984.0 Gamma]], requiring him to be stationed on [[Nebulos]] as a factory manufacturing [[hoverboard]]s, binary bonded to a local codenamed [[Safeguard (TransTech)|Safeguard]] and with a bodyguard known as [[Scorpia (TransTech)|Scorpia]]. He hoped he'd got on well with them!

In the interim, he endeavoured to answer questions and among his answers:

*He has 'dreams' of the exploits of other Vector Primes and believes this is down to an unusual physiology of his. While he has a vague sense of having been greater once, these memories "are but oneiric wisps, gossamer threads that vanish when I touch them."

*He's ''dramatically'' less interested in questions about who came from what universal stream. Stop wasting his time, nerds!

*He has visited a few other realities as a scholar. It was Rhinox that challenged him into getting out into the field.

*The students he remembers the most fondly after Rhinox are [[Perceptor (TransTech)|Perceptor]], [[Apelinq (TransTech)|Apelinq]], [[Proxima (TransTech)|Proxima]], and [[Brainstorm (TransTech)|Brainstorm]], who all did great things in their respective fields. [[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]], on the other hand, often challenged him to excel but they did not go on, each believing the other had deep problems. [[Deluge (TransTech)|Deluge]] and [[Herr Fiend]] were frustrating as neither seemed likely to do nice things with their skills.

Not long into his voyage on [[Galaxy Shuttle]], he started to develop tentative feelings for Scorpia. Unfortunately, his trip was interrupted by an abduction. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/11/19}} [[Spacewarp]] came to his aid on behalf of the wounded Galaxy Shuttle. {{storylink|Transformers: Spacewarp's Log|Spacewarp's Log (2), 2015/11/21 and 2015/11/22}} During the long, meandering journey, he fell in love with Scorpia and they became [[Conjunx Endura]]. He eventually arrived safely at Nebulos. He looked forward to exploring its wonders with his new guide and binary bonded Target/Powermaster, Safeguard. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2016/02/14 and 2016/02/15}}

===''Animated'' cartoon continuity===
When the battle between [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] and [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] caused the [[AllSpark]] to discharge an energy flare, this massive surge of cosmic power caught Vector Prime's attention. Peering through the dimensions, he observed the growing conflict between these Autobots and Decepticons and recorded his thoughts in a journal. {{storylink|Dispatches}} {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac|The AllSpark Almanac}} When he manifests in this dimension, Vector is known by the grandiose name of "Vector Prima-Vectorum".<ref>Originally an idea of [[Derrick J. Wyatt]]'s that never made it into any official media; later referenced in [[Ask Vector Prime]] (2015/06/24)</ref>

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
After the Fallen was caught trying to harvest a [[Sun|star]] from a system with life, he turned on the other Primes and made war on them. In order to prevent the Fallen from harvesting the star, the remaining Primes (including Vector Prime) hid the [[Matrix of Leadership|key to the harvester]] inside a tomb made of their own bodies and sealed it with their own life essence. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{storylink|Ask Vector Prime}}

[[File:ROTF-sixprimes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|I was the handsome one.]]

{{note|Vector Prime was among the [[Dynasty of Primes]], though it was unclear which exact Prime he was. However, since he simply claims that he was the "handsome one", this may have all been a joke. If not, Vector Prime's involvement in the preceding events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the novel "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]."}}

===Generation 1 continuity family===
====''Alternity''====
Vector Prime was contacted by his fellow defenders of space and time, the hyper-evolved Autobots known as the [[Alternity (species)|Alternity]], when they were facing their final hours. At the Alternity's behest, Vector Prime communicated with a race of two-dimensional beings called [[Planicron]]s who were under threat from [[Megatron (G1)#Alternity|Megatron]], and discovered that they were attempting to evolve beyond their two-dimensional existence. To do so, they had to pass through a doorway that took the form of a diagram somewhere on the Earth of [[universal stream]] [[Story of Binaltech|Primax 903.0 Beta]]. A team consisting of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], [[Arcee (Energon)|Elita Seven]], and [[Nemesis Prime (Universe)|Nemesis Prime]] successfully located the diagram, and Vector Prime proceeded to lead the Planicrons through it, successfully evolving them into higher-dimensional lifeforms that took the Alternity's place as defenders of reality. {{storylink|Alternation}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
:*''First Appearance:'' [[Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|''Transformers vol. 2'' #47]] (mentioned); [[Heavy|''Transformers: Till All Are One'' #9]] (obscured image); [[Origin Myths|''Optimus Prime'' #10]] (full appearance)

Vector Prime was one of the Thirteen Primes, who led the [[Thirteen Tribes]] of Cybertron that formed after the [[Knights of Cybertron]] left the planet. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} He joined his tribe with those of [[Solus Prime]], [[Alchemist Prime]], [[Nexus Prime]], and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], the quintet commissioning the construction of [[Crystal City]], on the site where [[Primus]] had supposedly delivered his [[Prime Pastoral]], as a way of honoring their creator.

After [[Septimus Prime]] perished, Vector ran to his fellow Primes to inform them of the development that the [[The Fallen|killer]] had conquered Septimus's lands and was on the warpath. There was a mixed reception to this news. {{storylink|Origin Myths}} In the era that followed, Vector would come to command the loyalty of the [[Titan (group)|Titan]] [[Tempo]]. {{storylink|Ceremony}}

The death of [[Nexus Prime]] at the hands of [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] prompted all the remaining Primes, except [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]], to flee Cybertron. Eons later, [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] would send one of his [[Regenesis]] ores, [[Ore-1]], to [[LV-117]], a planet associated with Vector. {{storylink|The Crucible}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Ceremony}}

In the modern day, Vector Prime's name was remembered in the [[Way of Flame]], the religion of [[Solus Prime]]'s colony [[Caminus (planet)|Caminus]]. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}}

====''Beast Wars: Uprising''====
In the 34th century CE, '''Vector Convoy''' was one of the [[Convoy Council]]. He usually abstained from voting the same as his peers. When the stolen ship ''[[Terrastar (BWU)|Terrastar]]'' left the Milky Way Galaxy, in violation of the Council's decree, Vector took part in the vote to send [[Astral Knight (BWU)|Astral Knight]] and his crew after them. Surprisingly, he agreed, though Astral noted it was with "infinite sadness". {{storylink|The Inexorable March}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material====
Vector Prime's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Vector Prime's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|#Generations|''Power of the Primes'' Metalhawk / Vector Prime online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Vector Prime's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
Vector Prime was one of the Thirteen. {{storylink|Lord of Misrule: Sea of Rust I|Sea of Rust I}}

===Aligned continuity family===
====''The Covenant of Primus''====
[[File:VectorPrime-CovenantOfPrimus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|"The only mystery worth solving here is how this thing passed its MOT."]]
Stern, serious, Vector Prime considered himself a force of order and balance in the universe, a mere extension of his creator [[Primus]]. His powers over time and space allowed him to create and prevent temporal paradoxes to suit his needs, and even distort reality as he saw fit. His personal artifact of power was the [[Blades of Time]], which he could use to travel through other dimensions. He also had [[Badge of Vector Prime|a badge]], seemingly for decoration.

The second of the Thirteen Primes to be created, Vector was a warrior Prime, joining Prima, Onyx, Amalgamous and Megatronus in the groupings among the Thirteen. After [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus]] had caused [[Unicron/Aligned|Unicron]] to fall into stasis, Vector Prime created a time loop around the inert form of the Chaos Bringer ensuring he would never awaken. Like the others however, Vector Prime was tainted by a touch of Unicron's darkness, which would mark the downfall of the Thirteen.

In the aftermath, Vector joined with Prima and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] to create rules and order for a new community and the upcoming birth of the Cybertronian species, though their rules were found restrictive by the other Primes. Along with Trion and Prima, Vector was greatly confused by the romance between Solus and Megatronus. Despite this however, Vector commissioned a new mandala from Solus.

The end of the Thirteen came after [[Prima]] discovered that Megatronus, [[Quintus Prime]], and [[Liege Maximo]] had worked on a secret "farm" of robotic creatures, which Alchemist found troubling. Suspecting a sinister motive, Prima forced the rest of the Thirteen into a vote on the matter, and Vector voted against letting the project continue. Furious with the results of the debate, Megatronus inadvertently killed Solus in a dispute that [[Liege Maximo]] had orchestrated. Drawn by the commotion, the rest of the Thirteen arrived in time to see Solus's body return to the [[Core]], its passage creating the [[Well of All Sparks]].

Even after Megatronus offered his side of the story, accusations began to fly. The investigation degenerated into a free-for-all brawl between the remaining twelve siblings, which ended with Maximo getting killed by the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]] through uncertain means.

The survivors buried Liege Maximo's remains in a chasm and held a memorial to Solus Prime in deep space. Hoping to put their ugly past behind them, the Primes then turned their attention to Cybertron and their plans for the future. They decided to use [[Onyx Prime]]'s [[Triptych Mask]] to create a new race of robotic beings, as Primus had created them, with Onyx, Micronus, and Optimus travelling into the Well resulting in the creation of a new wave of Cybertronian creatures which the surviving Primes oversaw. Vector Prime's faith in his siblings however had long since been shattered and he quietly retreated to [[Realm of the Primes|another dimension]] when no one was looking.

One way or another his badge wound up in [[Vector Sigma]]'s possession. Millenia later, Alpha Trion would gift it to Sentinel Prime. Millenia after that, Optimus reassembled the Blades of Time.
{{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}
{{-}}

====Aligned novels====
In the past, the once idealistic Vector Prime held the Thirteen together with his idealism, but despaired as his fellow Primes fell to fighting and backstabbing. He could understand a moment of anger that caused [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] to lash out and kill [[Solus Prime]], but when he discovered [[Liege Maximo]] actively scheming against his brothers, he could tolerate no more, and created a miniature pocket dimension for himself. This could only be accessed through the [[Blades of Time]], which were scattered across the [[Cybertronian colonies]] and guarded by [[Nexus Prime]]'s fractured selves. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

When he defeated [[Sentinel Zeta Prime|Sentinel Prime]] in combat, [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] noticed he wore the sigil of the noble myth of Vector Prime. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

After discovering and assembling the Blades of Time, Optimus stepped through into Vector Prime's pocket dimension. Vector Prime had been expecting him, and called Optimus "Prime". He agreed to aid the [[Autobot]]s, and seemed surprised that Alpha Trion was still alive. He wondered how many of the Thirteen were still around. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[File:OneShallRise1-VectorPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1]]

According to legend, at the beginning of time, [[Unicron]] and [[Primus]] battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Till, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}}

At some point, statues of Vector Prime and his brothers were made. They were placed in the chamber of the High Council. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

====Ask Vector Prime====
The [[Uniend]] incarnation of Vector Prime was initially not part of the "multiversal singularity" Vector, as the Uniend Cluster was separated from the rest of the multiverse by a quantum membrane. When this membrane was punctured by the [[Dark Spark]], Uniend Vector began to be absorbed into the wavestructure of the living quantum event that was the singularity incarnation. As this process carried itself out, the singularity Vector began to experience and absorb the memories of the Uniend Vector, recalling how he had convinced [[Ironfletch]] to join the Autobot cause, and briefly worked alongside [[Rampart Punch]] and [[Avatar Brave]]. In particular, he expressed a fondness for his Uniend equivalent's [[Facial hair|beard]], and wondered if he would adopt it into his own facial structure. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime}}

====2015 ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Troy Baker]] (English), [[Yasuhiro Kikuchi]] (Japanese)|[[Xavier Percy]] (French), [[Glauco Marques]] (Brazilian Portuguese)}}
[[File:BattlegroundsPt1 vector prime.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.5|He knows about Setsuna Meiou being demoted to a dwarf planet.]]
When the evil of [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] threatened to return, endangering both Earth and Cybertron, [[Micronus Prime]] brought [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] before Vector and the other four Primes who dwelled within the [[Realm of the Primes]]. Speaking for the group, Vector announced that they could sense Optimus had not yet completed the necessary preparations that would allow him to safely receive a portion of power from each of the assembled Primes so that he could effectively combat Megatronus, but an impassioned speech from Optimus convinced them to go through with the power transfer. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}}

{{-}}

===''Kre-O'' online comic===
[[File:KreO vectorprime.jpg|right|thumb|upright=.75]]
In [[Fornax 813.0 Gamma|a universe]] built out of blocks, Vector Prime witnessed a Decepticon attack on [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]. {{storylink|Two Giant Bases! Everybody Getting Along, Come On, Fight!}}
{{-}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Vector Prime was one of the [[Thirteen]]. {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} {{storylink|Silent Strike}} {{storylink|The Other One}}

===''One'' film===
[[File:One-Vector-Prime.jpg|thumb|Hey 2000s kids! It's me! I'm back.....just to be killed off in a brief flashback for shock value...]]
Vector Prime and the other twelve Primes were created by [[Primus]] at the dawn of Cybertron, and they ruled Cybertron benevolently through its Golden Age. When a war with the Quintessons meant their world was in danger, throwing the planet into a protracted, violent conflict, the Primes' secretary, [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel Prime]], herded the [[Thirteen|thirteen]] into a Quintesson ambush within a remote cave. Vector would be killed during the battle, with his brothers' and sisters' bodies resting in a hidden cave for fifty cycles before being rediscovered by miners [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]], [[Megatron (One)|D-16]], [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita]], and [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]].

A vision of Vector Prime and the other Primes later appeared as Alpha Trion declared a damaged Orion Pax to be the next wielder of the Matrix of Leadership, Optimus Prime.{{storylink|Transformers One (film)|Transformers One}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===Transformers Power Up: The Game===
{{Note|Vector Prime is one of four Transformers that can be built over the course of the game.}}
{{storylink|Transformers Power Up: The Game}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Vector Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]
Vector Prime was one of the original Thirteen Primes.

When [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] and [[C.L. (G1)|C.L.]] were surrounded by Decepticons, Vector Prime temporarily stopped time and stepped in to have a talk with the two Autobots. Introducing himself, Vector explained the slow-time bubble was necessary for him to enter regular spacetime to act against [[Nova Prime]], who wanted to destroy all timelines in the multiverse to reset the slate. {{Storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy}} Vector gave a hint: "Unite or perish." before departing. {{storylink|History Repeating}}

Vector Prime also appeared to the time-lost Optimus Prime in [[1984]], explaining that Optimus was needed to stop Nova Prime. {{storylink|Mayhem: Enemy of My Enemy|Vector Prime arrival}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Generation 2''===
[[File:G2AutobotGenerations.jpg|100px|thumb|Sadly not featured in a hilarious rap-filled commercial.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a2|'''Autobot''' (Watch, 1993)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Watchband
{{toydesigner|[[Takashi Matsuda]] (TakaraTomy)}}
{{note|This toy was [[Repurposing|repurposed]] into an older form of Vector Prime via an entry of [[Ask Vector Prime]].}}

: [[Autobot (G2)|Autobot]] originated in the [[1983]] ''[[Microman]]'' ''[[Micro Change]]'' line as MC-06 Watch Robo, where he was available in four different colors. In [[1993]], he was released directly by [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] in North America as part of ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'', alongside [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]] and the wristwatches of [[Superion (G1)|Superion]], [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]].

: He transforms from a boxy silver chrome robot to a boxy functional digital watch that attaches to a plastic wristband.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1993/Autobot/Autobot/autobot.htm More information on Autobot at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Cybertron''===
[[File:Cybertrontoy hasbro and takara vector primes.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|The [[Last Autobot]]'s beiger cousin. (Hasbro Vector Prime at left, Takara release on the right, and their respective Cyber Keys from top to bottom at center.)]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Voyager, 2004/2005)}}</ul>
:*''Takara ID number'': '''GC-03'''
:*''Takara release date'': [[December 28]], 2004
:*''Accessories'': [[Rhisling|Sword]], missile, [[Zeonomicon|Cyber Key]]
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''v38g'''
{{toydesigner|[[Aaron Archer]] and [[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro), [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Hirofumi Ichikawa]] (detailing)}}

: Part of the first wave of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]/[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)#Takara Galaxy Force toyline|Galaxy Force]]'' toys, Vector Prime transforms into a large Cybertronic space cruiser with "solar panel" wings and a ''ton'' of clockwork/filigree detailing. His nosecone has a spring-loaded missile launcher at the tip, and an indented area over his cockpit for his pack-in Mini-Con partner [[Safeguard (Cybertron)#Toys|Safeguard]] to attach in jet/cannon mode. The nosecone ''also'' holds his [[Rhisling|sword]], the guard sticking out of the side to form a small stabilizer fin (with an immobile matching fin on the other side). In robot mode, raising his right arm triggers electronic laser sounds; inserting his unique [[Cyber Key]] into his <s>fly</s> abdomen in either mode activates a vague electronic charging sound, and replaces his arm-activated laser sounds with those of a clashing sword.

: First made available in Japan by [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] several months ahead of [[Hasbro]]'s release, ''Galaxy Force'' Vector Prime has some significant differences between these two separate releases. Where Hasbro's release features a high-contrast color scheme of stark white and rich chocolate-brown plastics, Takara's uses a softer metallic-tinged grey and burgundy. [[For safety reasons]], Hasbro uses a softer, bendable translucent plastic for Vector Prime's wings and sword, where Takara was able to cast these parts in firmer materials. Finally, there are numerous [[paint operation]] differences between the two: Takara's version features a burgundy trim that runs all around the figure's wings, extra red circles on his shoulders, silver paint on the thigh vents, and several additional gold details on his forearm guards, helmet crest, and the sides of his legs, while Hasbro's does away with these and adds instead a larger gold application around his midriff and Cyber Key slot, and an Autobot [[insignia]] on his vehicle-mode cockpit. Hasbro's Cyber Key is entirely unpainted translucent blue with a [[Cyber Key Codes|Cyber Key Code]] printed on the back, Takara's features a generous metallic silver paint coating and no code.

: Unhelpfully, [[:File:VectorPrime toy.jpg|stock photos of Vector Prime]] depicted a conglomerated version of the figure with Hasbro's white plastic, Takara's burgundy, and all the different paint applications from both versions.

: The Korean [[Mocom Toy]] version of Takara Vector Prime replaces the silver paint of his Cyber Planet Key with a light gray.

: This mold was also used to create [[BotCon 2007]] [[Alpha Trion (SG)#Toys|Alpha Trion]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/VectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on Vector Prime at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|VsStarscream}}
[[File:Cybertrontoy vprime vs sscream.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Starscream vs. Vector Prime''' (Multi-pack, 2005)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': [[Rhisling|Sword]], missile, [[Zeonomicon|Cyber Key]]
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''v38g'''

: The Vector Prime in this [[Toys"R"Us]] [[exclusive]] set is identical to the regular-retail version. He comes with a unique version of [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#VsVector|Starscream]], a Voyager-class mold that was otherwise not available at normal US retail, and in an entirely new deco to boot.

{{-}}{{anchor|LOC}}
[[File:Cyb-toy VectorPrime LOC.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|And I'm his poorer cousin who can't afford paint.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Legends of Cybertron, 2006)}}</ul>

: As part of the ''[[Legends Class (2005)|Legends of Cybertron]]'' line, Vector Prime is a miniature, heavily-simplified version of the Voyager-class toy, yet retaining much of the sculpted detailing. He was part of the third wave of product, the first wave to be sold outside of "[[market six]]" stores and in "big box" chains like Toys 'R' Us and Kmart.

: Some stock photos of this figure, including the ones on the back of its packaging,<ref name="locvprime">[http://www.shmax.com/product_details/271/vector_prime Legends of Cybertron Vector Prime's packaging] at Shmax.com</ref> depict Vector Prime with functional elbows. Evidently, a [[design change]] was implemented at some point; on the final release, the arms are cast as one piece, with ''fake elbow joints'' as moulded detail. OK then.

: This mold was [[redeco]]ed into ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|Universe]]'' [[Scattershot (G1)#Universe (2008)|Scattershot]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/LOCVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Legends of Cybertron'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|CGFVectorPrime}}
[[File:Cyb GFVectorPrime toy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Safeguard pimps his ride. Fo sho.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Galaxy Force Vector Prime''' (Voyager, 2006)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Sword, missile, Cyber Key
:*''Cyber Key Code'': '''vz74'''
{{toydesigner|[[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro)}}

: Not to be confused with the ''Galaxy Force'' release of Vector Prime, Hasbro's "Galaxy Force Vector Prime" is a matte gold & clear-orange [[redeco]] of Vector Prime released in the eighth and final wave of ''Cybertron'' Voyagers, the only new toy in that assortment. The packaging photography shows the [[prototype]] as considerably more blinged out than the rather yellowish matte gold plastic actually used for the production run. He retains all of his normal gimmickry from the original release.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/GFVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on Galaxy Force Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Universe2008 VectorPrime.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Last Autobot [[homage]]: Denied!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime with Mini-Con Safeguard!''' (Voyager, 2009)}}</ul>
:*''Series'': Cybertron Series
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, missile, Cyber Key
{{toydesigner|[[Andrew Scribner]] (deco artist)}}

: Vector Prime was re-released in the fourth wave of the [[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|2008 ''Universe'' series]] Voyagers, redecoed in black, brown, and blue. Notably, this is the first Hasbro iteration of the figure to have painted wings like the Takara Galaxy Force version, as well as being the only version with a painted sword blade. Like [[BotCon]] exclusive [[Alpha Trion (SG)#Toys|Alpha Trion]], sadly, he has been gutted of his electronic features, rendering the Cyber Key pointless; though the battery compartment can be opened.

:This toy was shipped in extremely low quantities, and as a result was a very rare sight at U.S. retail stores.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Autobot/TFUVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Universe'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Vector-Prime-Prime-Master.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Vector Prime''' (Prime Master, [[2017]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''PP-03'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[May 25]], [[2018]]
:*''Accessories'': [[Metalhawk (G1)#Power of the Primes|Metalhawk]] decoy armor, cannon
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Vector Prime is a [[Prime Master]] with [[Metalhawk (G1)#Toys|Metalhawk]] "decoy armor", visually based on the original [[Pretender]]'s inner robot and shell.

: This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The decoy armor has a weapon piece that can fold out to create a weapon mode, or detach and be held in the armor's 3 mm-compatible hand. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside the decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug into any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the [[Scepter of Sparks]]. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

: Unlike every other Titan Master/Prime Master, Vector Prime and his fellow first-wave Prime Masters feature backpacks/symbols secured by pins instead of screws.

: Though designated for a first-quarter 2018 release, Vector Prime/Metalhawk's wave reached U.S. store shelves in November 2017.

:Vector Prime/Metalhawk was retooled with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil and decoy armor front as [[Alpha Trion (G1)#Power of the Primes|Alpha Trion]]/[[Landmine (G1)#Power of the Primes|Landmine]], and again replacing the entire gray sprue with new parts for [[Quintus Prime#Power of the Primes|Quintus Prime]]/[[Bludgeon (G1)#Power of the Primes|Bludgeon]]. Vector Prime alone was given a different replacement sprue for the [[Thirteenth Prime#Power of the Primes|Thirteenth Prime]].
{{-}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:TF-Legacy-United-Voyager-Vector-Prime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Retooled with direction ''and'' magnitude.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Cybertron Universe Vector Prime''' (Voyager, [[2024]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy Release Date:'' [[December 28]], [[2024]]
:*''TakaraTomy ID Number:'' '''TL-80'''
:*''Accessories'': "[[Rhisling#Legacy|Rhisling]]" sword, [[Zeonomicon#Legacy|Cyber Key]]
{{toydesigner|[[Mark Maher]] (Hasbro), [[Yūya Ōnishi]] (TakaraTomy)}}<ref>[[April 25]], [[2024]]'s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s06YE02e844 Hasbro Pulse Transformers Fanstream | April 2024] on YouTube, with [[Ben MacCrae]], [[Mark Maher]] and [[Evan Brooks]].</ref>

: Part of the third wave of ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy United]]'' Voyagers, Vector Prime is a partial [[retool]]ing of [[Jhiaxus (G2)#Legacy|G2 Universe Jhiaxus]], retaining the legs, arms and part of the chest. While teased at Hasbro's [[WonderCon 2024 fan media event|WonderCon]] panel with his ''[[Binder of Revelation]]'' appearance, the toy itself is based on his ''Cybertron'' design. He transforms into a chunkier take on his original spaceship alt-mode.

: He comes with his [[Rhisling#Legacy|Rhisling sword]] and his personal [[Zeonomicon#Legacy|clockwork-style Cyber Key]]. Like most ''Cybertron''-derived ''Legacy'' figures with Keys, it is only there as a callback to its functionality on the original toy, not activating any gimmicks. The key is inserted in a different location than as before, as it doesn't plug into his waist like his original toy, instead attaching to his chest or backpack (presumably to not block his new waist articulation). His wing panels can also be taken off their pegs fairly easily, if one wants to make use of the [[Powerlinx]] posts on them to equip him with shields.

: Like with most characters partnered with Mini-Cons, [[Safeguard (Cybertron)#Toys|Safeguard]] is omitted from this release, though Vector Prime’s jet mode has a port for the original to plug into and rest.

: Vector Prime was revealed on the [[April 25]] fanstream, with pre-orders going up later that same day.

::*''[https://www.instagram.com/p/C6TodbUuVLy/ Designer commentary on ''Legacy'' Vector Prime from Mark Maher on Instagram'']''
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===''Attacktix''===
[[File:Attacktix VectorPrime.jpg||thumb|upright=1.1|Go ahead. Ask me again about how well I blend.]]
*'''Vector Prime''' (Booster, 2006)
{{attacktix
|ID=TF11
|faction=Autobot
|class=Leader
|special=Vengeance—2525 (77%) success ratio
|cost=40
|speed=4
|attacktype=Shooter (Energy Blast)
}}
:Part of the first assortment of ''[[Attacktix]]'' Transformers-series Booster packs, Vector Prime is one of the less stable shooters of his size. He has three points of articulation (shoulders and waist) which you can use to put him in a more stable stance than his default, though it doesn't look very comfortable.

:Vector Prime appears to have been created as the counterpart to the powerful Decepticon [[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]] figure. His Special Power is the antithesis of Scorponok's, allowing you to instantly remove up to two of your opponent's in-play [[Insecticon (Energon)|Insecticons]]. Who knew Vector Prime hated Terrorcons so much?

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Autobot/AttacktixVectorPrime/vectorprime.htm More information on ''Attacktix'' Vector Prime at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===Jollibee===
{{anchor|Jollibee}}
[[File:JollibeeCybVector.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|The Guardian of Shakes and Fries]]
*'''Vector Prime''' (Jollibee Kids Meal, 2007)
**''Accessories'': Cup topper stand

:Released under the "Robot Blasters" promotion from [[Jollibee]], Vector Prime is a simplified rendition of the [[Vector Prime#LOC|Legends of Cybertron]] figure, missing several joints and shaving off a few transformation steps in the process. Like all four pieces in this set, Vector includes a stand with his name and faction symbol sculpted on one side and the ''Cybertron'' logo on the other. This stand can also be used to cover up a regular-sized cup from a fast food joint.

{{--}}

==Notes==
===General===
[[File:VectorPrimeGoldCG.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Vector Prime goes Super Saiyan.]]
* Like other members of the Thirteen, Vector Prime was once established as a [[multiversal singularity]], existing as one being across all of time and space, but that is [[Shroud|no longer the case]].
* The original concept for Vector Prime was for him to be a character who could cut through spacetime to summon different characters from across the multiverse.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Multiverse travel was really what he was created for, he was initially created as a character that could cut through the Multiverse with his sword and potentially bring characters from different versions of the franchise together. Now that changed a little bit in the execution of ''Cybertron'' and how that finished up, but initially he would have been a character that would have helped the Autobots, or guided somehow them getting to the different places, and meeting up with different versions of different characters that maybe they would have brought forward.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQLQ4VzuCGA&t=281s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=Toy Armada Friday night LIVE: Creating characters and lore|year=2023|month=05|day=26}}</ref> In keeping with the idea of him being a much older Transformer than had ever been seen before, his design drew heavily from Egyptian imagery and {{w|Swiss made}} watches.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=One of my favorite character designs. He was created for Cybertron animation and incorporated into the TF aligned continuity project. Heavily based on Egyptian influences as well as swiss watches, we wanted his age to show in his design that he came from an much older time than #Optimus and the gang. I altered his head colors to create a more uniform look.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CEuFhNtA5bn/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2020|month=09|day=04}}</ref> He was originally going to have two swords (as seen in the image to the right), representing the hands of a {{w|clock face}}.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So his initial concept was that he was somehow going to be the controller of [...] time and space. That is why he was designed with clocklike gears and mechanism, 'cause he's a time machine, and the two swords that he was supposed to have represent like, a clock arm—the two clock arms—and that he would cut through, you know, the reality of time and space around him, to enter into other Transformer realities. So that was the original, like, ''need'' for the character. As we thought about that, that seemed pretty epic, that seemed like a skill set that no other Transformer seems to have—so are we going too far, right? You gotta be fair. And that's when it was like, "well what if this guy is even bigger than Autobot/Decepticon? What if he's one of the Thirteen? Then we can get away with a god power.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=938s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref>
** During pre-production of the ''Cybertron'' franchise, [[Don Figueroa]] iterated on early concept art for Vector Prime. [http://www.unicron.us/tf2007/figueroa/DonceptVector-b.jpg Figueroa's design] depicted the character as much older and with a noticeable hunch, and ultimately went unused in favor of his final design.
** The vaguely pharaonic head of one of the earliest known sketches of Vector Prime had a resemblance to {{w|Giant Robo (OVA)|Giant Robo}}, but [[Aaron Archer]] had no idea what Giant Robo was when questioned about it—although, to be fair, the sketch was not one Archer had done himself.<ref>http://tfu.info/issue12/aaronsdesk.htm Stuff From Aaron's Desk, Day 22</ref>
** His final head design was largely based on the [[Autobot]] insignia.<ref>[[Hasbro]] panel at [[BotCon 2006]]</ref> During development, a few possibilities were explored to give him a much more slavish version of the insignia for a face, such as a flip-down<ref>[http://www.flickr.com/photos/naladahc/256973979/in/set-72157594305640507/ BotCon - Friday - Vector Prime's original head]</ref> or opening<ref>{{citesocial|quote=His head has a bit of an Egyptian vibe to it. It was the Autobot logo at one point, and that was just a little too on-the-nose for Hasbro, you know, we didn't want to define that [...] logo on a character forever. [...] And then the face was going to open up, like it was a shield kind of thing.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1081s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> battle mask.
* Vector Prime's spaceship mode was based directly on the [[Sith Infiltrator]],<ref>{{citesocial|quote=The Sith Infiltrator was obviously part of the visual of the alt-mode.
|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1138s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> and needed to undergo revisions by [[Eric Siebenaler]] to reduce the resemblance for the final product.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I know I did an image board with Swiss watches and this that and the other, Chris took that to a level, Don was working on the heads a little bit more, Eric was working on the spaceship after we got the first version back—we needed some refinement to get it away from the Sith Infiltrator vibe, and so that's when Eric did some overlays on the vehicle—so this is toy design, and this is classic character design when you have a big corporation: a lot of people are going to touch them.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=1953s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref> Aaron Archer feels that Vector Prime's vehicle mode was a little undercooked, in comparison to the robot mode.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wish we worked on the vehicle mode as much as we did the bot....|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CEuFhNtA5bn/c/17860106990087566/r/17913964018469268/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2020|month=09|day=04}}</ref>
* The "Galaxy Force Vector Prime" color scheme appears to have been inspired by a [[GONZO]] CGI color mock-up done before Vector Prime's final coloration was decided. A Hasbro design chart showing this and other concepts was first seen at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2005, and was present at [[BotCon 2005]] later that same year. The image also made an appearance during a slideshow at one of Hasbro's [[BotCon 2006]] presentations, and in Galaxy Force Vector Prime's unlockable online Cyber Key content.
** Aaron Archer's personal [[Authorial intent|headcanon]] regarding Vector Prime's color scheme was that he originally had a [[Vacuum metallizing|shiny]] gold finish—as seen in this concept art and in ''[[Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus]]''—but that the chrome flaked away over the years.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=In my headcanon, he was shimmery shiny gold at some point—like you see in the ''Covenant'' book, he is gold in that book—and his VM has worn off over the millenniums, you know? tAnd that's why he's white and brown now, because the the chrome has flaked off of him! [*Laughs*]|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlVUQbW01Ys&t=2301s|name=Aaron Archer|site=''The Toy Armada''|title=17 - Transformers Created To SELL A STORY | Vector Prime & Thundertron|year=2024|month=06|day=14}}</ref>
* "Vector Prime" was the originally proposed name for [[Sentinel Maximus]], going so far as to be printed on Sentinel Maximus's shipping cases.
* The released version of the Vector Prime ''Attacktix'' figure featured the Takara coloration of the ''Cybertron'' toy, gray with a metallic burgundy. [[:File:WhiteVectorPrimeAttacktix.jpg|A more Hasbro-release-like white-and-brown redeco]] was seen through various avenues, such as Toy Fair 2006 and Hasbro publicity photos, but ultimately never came out at retail.
* Vector Prime is [[Aaron Archer]]'s favorite character he's created.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=mine too|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bubcs5Kn9dr/c/17978356441205690/r/17907536086292250/|name=Aaron Archer|site=Instagram|year=2019|month=05|day=03}}</ref>

===''Generation 2'' "Autobot" watch toy===
[[File:RobotTimeMachineSixModes.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|Robot Time Machine in watch, "battle station", "galactic shuttle", "cosmic tank", "solar creature", and robot forms. No, this time we're not joking.]]
* After being released in ''Micro Change'', Autobot was sold by Takara in a line called ''Watch Q'' in 1984. The watches who would become [[Kaltor]] and [[Scorpia (G2)|Scorpia]] were also sold in ''Watch Q'', as were a bunch of other transforming watches who were never sold as Transformers. Autobot was also sold as part of Takara's North American ''[[Kronoform]]'' line, where he was called "Robot Time Machine" and had the unique honor of appearing in a television commercial that advertised him as being, at the least, a [[Six Changer]] (albeit a highly unconvincing one).
* He has the distinction of being THE prototypical transforming watch toy of the 1980s, with scores of knock-offs produced during that era. Surprisingly, one of these was advertised ''within'' an issue of Marvel's ''Transformers'' series! "[[The Next Best Thing to Being There!]]" featured [[:File:BonkersRobotWatch.jpg|an ad from the Nabisco company]] for a "Robot-Watch" (plainly Autobot, with "Quartz" replacing "Takara" on his chest) at the cost of $3.95 and 3 "Bonkers" candy labels.
* Two versions of Autobot's packaging are depicted in ''[[Transformers Generations (guidebook)|Transformers Generations]]'', one using his ''Micro Change'' art with an Autobot symbol slapped on and the other with original art. According to the text, the former was a packaging mock-up; the one shown on this page is how he was released.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Vector Prime''' (ベクタープライム ''Bekutā Puraimu'')
*''Hungarian:'' '''Vector Fővezér'''
*''Korean:'' '''Mega Vector Prime''' (메가 벡터 프라임 ''Mega Bekteo Peuraim'')
*''Indonesian:'' '''Dexter Prime'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Vector''' (Taiwan, 貝克達 ''Bèikèdá''), '''Yǐn Tiān Xíng''' (China, 引天行), '''Xiàngliàng Zhìzūn''' (''Earth Wars'', 向量至尊 "Vector Supreme")
*''Ukrainian:'' '''Vektor Naykrashchyy''' (Вектор Найкращий, "Vector the Best")

==External links==
*[http://www.insecticons.com/vector-qa-00.html Ask Vector Prime archive at ''In Space, No One Can Hear Starscream'']
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNlb0h6qig8 Kronoform Robot Time Machine commercial on youtube]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Attacktix]]
[[Category:Alternity Autobots]]
[[Category:Animated Autobots]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Autobots]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising Transformers]]
[[Category:Council members]]
[[Category:Cybertron Autobots]]
[[Category:Cyberverse Transformers]]
[[Category:Dimension hoppers]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category:Female Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Autobots]]
[[Category:Guardians]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Legacy Autobots]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:One Transformers]]
[[Category:Point One Percenters]]
[[Category:Powermasters]]
[[Category:Prime Masters]]
[[Category:Repurposed toys]]
[[Category:Targetmasters]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Transcendent Technomorphs]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:Watches]]

Alpha Trion/Generation 1

2024-11-19T20:04:44Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */

{{factions|{{factions/icons|custom=PotP-AlphaTrion.png|cSize=30px|cLink=Alpha Trion (G1)|cPretty=Alpha Trion}}|autobot|autobotg2|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Alpha Trion}}
:''Alpha Trion is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-Legendsartclean.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm sure I'm just a wise old sage and nothing any more complicated or cosmic than that!]]

'''Alpha Trion''' (aka '''A-3''') is one of the oldest living Transformers, and with that age comes a nuanced understanding of his race and their place within the universe. In his youth, he was instrumental in establishing [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] as an independent galactic power, and in his older years, he has found a comfortable role in serving as advisor to other Transformers.

Though Alpha Trion rarely takes part in the battles of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], he is firmly on the side of the Autobots and serves as a mentor and guide, especially to [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He is an enigmatic old robot, and in many realities he is the guardian of [[Vector Sigma]] and the custodian of its [[Key to Vector Sigma|circuit key]]. His sage-like manner paints him in almost a mystic tone, and possible connections between Alpha Trion, [[Primus]], and the history of Cybertron itself have boosted him into legendary status.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[John Stephenson]] (English), [[Corey Burton]] (English, "War Dawn"), [[Tony Pope]] (English, "Forever Is a Long Time Coming"), [[Osamu Saka]] (Japanese), [[Toshiro Ishii]] (Japanese, "War Dawn"), [[Hiroshi Naka]] (Japanese, "The Rebirth")|[[Chen Chun]] (Chinese), [[Wolfgang Mascher]] (German, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2" and "The Rebirth, Part 2"), [[Ramón Rocabayera]] (Spain-Spanish), [[Alejandro Abdalah]] (Latin American Spanish), [[François Leccia]] (European French, "The Search for Alpha Trion"), Unknown (European French, "The Key to Vector Sigma" episodes & "War Dawn"), [[Albert Augier]] (European French, "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French, "The Rebirth" episodes), [[Magalhães Graça]] (Portuguese), [[Jomeri Pozzoli]] (Portuguese, "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2")}}

[[File:YoungA3.jpg|left|thumb|Silverbolt never misses a chance to check out A-3's rugged mustache.]]
11 million years ago, a mechanoid named A-3 was part of the [[Autobot Rebellion|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s on a [[Cybertron (planet)|factory world]], creating a device called the [[Coder Remote]] that would stop their [[Dark Guardian]]s. Due to a timerift created by Quintessons from the future, he was briefly pulled from his position in the [[Empty Lands]] into the year 2006. Fortunately, his partner [[Beta (G1)|Beta]] managed to start the rebellion as scheduled, and A-3 was soon returned by future [[Autobot]]s to fulfill his role in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

[[File:Alphatrionagesbackwards.jpg|thumb|He grew a beard, picked up the Matrix, shaved his beard, and then built Optimus, apparently.]]
Years later, he would be given the [[Matrix of Leadership]] by the dying [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], but Alpha Trion himself did not become Autobot leader. It would sit in his possession, unused, until the coming of the next Autobot leader. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} In the meantime, Alpha Trion developed plans to rebuild Autobots to better combat the escalating [[Decepticon]] menace.

The next Autobot leader would actually come to ''him'' when a [[Aerialbot (G1)|group of time-travelers]] lugged a dying youth named Orion Pax to his repair center. Reluctant at first, Alpha Trion sensed a strong spirit in Orion Pax, and decided to rebuild him entirely... into [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]. When Prime asked if Alpha Trion could rebuild his fallen girlfriend Ariel as well, Alpha Trion agreed, and mused that [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] would be a good name for a female warrior. {{storylink|War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn}}

[[File:AlphaTrion.jpg|left|thumb|Alpha Trion has secret liquor stashes in the strangest of places.]]

Over the intervening millennia, Alpha Trion's two greatest creations, whether by design or coincidence, forgot their relationship to the ancient Autobot. Five million years after his creation, Optimus Prime was lost when his spacecraft crash-landed on prehistoric Earth, but Alpha Trion kept in contact with Elita One, acting as a sagely advisor to her team of [[Female Autobots]] as they spent the following four million years stealing [[energon]] from [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. Eventually, in the Earth year 1985, Shockwave caught the Female Autobots in the act and tracked them back to their headquarters, prompting Elita One to consult with Alpha Trion on a course of action. Trion suggested they move their headquarters, telling Elita to scout for a new location alone, but in the event that she encountered the Decepticons, warned her not to use her life-draining time-freezing power. Alas, Elita was captured, and used by the Decepticons to lure Optimus Prime into a trap. To save her beloved's life, Elita used her fatal power, and the Autobot leader was forced to track Alpha Trion to [[Alpha Trion's base‎|his secret base]] in hopes that he could save her. Alpha Trion repaired her to the best of his ability, but revealed to Optimus Prime that only Prime could save Elita by interfacing to her with his power filter. An astonished Optimus Prime stated that only his creator could know that! {{storylink|The Search for Alpha Trion}}

[[File:Ktvs prime and trion.jpg|thumb|"Hey"]]

A short time later, while he was looking for a [[10.2 ultra-drill|misplaced tool]], Alpha Trion was attacked in his workshop by [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] and his Decepticons, who demanded that he hand over the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]. Trion pled ignorance, but Megatron knew better, and the elderly Autobot was soon overpowered while the Decepticons made off with the key. Alpha Trion was rescued from the chunk of metal the Decepticons left him stuck in by Optimus Prime and the Autobots, and after his injuries were repaired by [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], he journeyed with them into Cybertron's depths, leading the way to Vector Sigma's chamber. Their way, however, was barred by [[Centurion droid]]s that Megatron used the Key to command, and Alpha Trion helped reactivate some discarded worker robots to fight the droids off. The droids had done their job, however, and prevented the Autobots from reaching Megatron before he used Vector Sigma to bring his newest Decepticons, the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] to life. To combat these new land-based Decepticons, Optimus Prime hit on the idea of creating some new aerial Autobots, and Alpha Trion set to work reconstructing some Cybertronian aircraft. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} When the work was done, Alpha Trion professed that he had another key to Vector Sigma "on him," and he would use it to reactivate the computer so that it could bring the jets to life. His "key," however, was his own life force: as a first generation product of Vector Sigma, his [[computation matrix]] could interface with the computer and bring it back online, at the cost of his own continued existence. Optimus Prime tried to stop him, but Alpha Trion refused to listen, reminding Prime that he was his creator and insisting that the jets were more important than he was. Prime relented, and Alpha Trion merged with Vector Sigma, which activated and brought the new [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] to life. Before Prime and the Autobots departed for Earth, Alpha Trion spoke to them through Vector Sigma, warning them of a fact merging with the computer had revealed to him: on Earth, the Key to Vector Sigma had even greater power. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

Many years later, when the [[Hate Plague]] was raging throughout the universe in the year 2006, Optimus Prime entered the Matrix to consult the ancient Autobots within on a possible cure. Alpha Trion was the first Prime spoke to, but he had no information to give, save a warning that Prime should take care on his journey into the Matrix, lest he be unable to return. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

The following year, after the Decepticons stole the [[Key to the Plasma Energy Chamber]], Optimus Prime used the Matrix to reactivate Vector Sigma so that he could converse with Alpha Trion, hoping that the old sage knew something more about what was going on. Alpha Trion revealed to Prime that Vector Sigma had ''allowed'' [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] to become aware of the key's existence, as the chamber was key to the dawning of a new [[Golden Age]] for Cybertron... as was the merging of an [[Cerebros (G1)|Autobot]]'s life with that of a [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|human]]'s. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}} Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus one final time, urging him to preserve the key at all costs, as it would be vital in fulfilling Vector Sigma's prophecy. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 3}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in the Japanese timeline as described above, except that the events of 2006 take place instead in 2010, and "The Rebirth" does not occur. Japanese continuity inserts many additional stories into the timeline.}}

=====''Generations Selects Special Comic''=====
The consciousness of [[Primus]] observed Beta and A3 drive the Quintessons off of their planet. {{storylink|Generations Selects Special Comic Finale|Finale}}

=====''The Headmasters'' cartoon=====
{{voiceactor|[[Masaharu Satō]] (Japanese)}}

[[File:AlphaTrionGhost.jpg|thumb|Alpha Trion's Spooooooky Ghost]]
In the year 2011, one year after Optimus Prime released the energy of the Matrix to cure the Hate Plague, Vector Sigma began to destabilize as a result. Optimus Prime voyaged into the planet's depths to try and bring the computer back under control, but the mission seemed doomed to failure, as he did not have the Matrix to help him. While the other Autobots searched Earth for the Matrix, which had been hidden away to recharge, the spectral form of Alpha Trion appeared to Optimus Prime to help lead him through the many dangers blocking the path to Vector Sigma's chamber. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}} When they finally reached their goal, however, it turned out the Decepticons had beaten them there. [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] was not far behind, with the recovered Matrix in his grasp, and when the young Autobot arrived, Alpha Trion instructed him to hold the talisman aloft. Trion's ethereal form flowed into the Matrix, completing its recharging process and transforming [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] back into Rodimus Prime, who joined Optimus in thrashing the Decepticons. {{storylink|Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime}}

=====Train Wars=====
The incorporeal Alpha Trion sensed a threat to [[Vector Sigma]] from inside the Matrix, and rematerialized on the physical plane to address the problem. He discovered [[The Fallen]] attempting to steal and assume the power of Vector Sigma for himself. Downplaying his own importance, Alpha Trion attempted to advise [[Shouki]] and the other Autobot defenders present. {{storylink|Train Wars}}

Upon recovering Vector Sigma from the Fallen, Alpha Trion once again sacrificed his physical form to merge with Vector Sigma, giving it the drive necessary to reformat Shouki into a "train bazooka" mode, powerful enough to defeat the Fallen. {{storylink|Train Wars 2}}

=====''G-2'' story pages=====
[[File:G2StoryPageReconfigurationMatrix1.jpg|thumb|left]]
When Optimus Prime was fatally injured in battle with Megatron, the spirits of Alpha Trion and former leaders residing within the Matrix activated its [[Reconfiguration Matrix]] mechanism, reviving Prime as Battle Convoy. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 5}}

=====''Legends'' comic=====
Alpha Trion and the Matrix—possibly the Reconfiguration Matrix again—had a hand in Rodimus Prime's transformation into a [[Micromaster]]. {{storylink|Transformers 2015 Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter|Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter}}

To counter the rise of [[Galvatron II]], Battle Convoy contacted the spirit of Alpha Trion within the Matrix and requested his help in reviving [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. Locating Magnus among the spirits of former leaders residing in the Matrix, Trion convinced him he was needed in the world of the living and entered his chest, using his unique connection with the Matrix to act as a substitute Matrix and bring both himself and Magnus back to life. Trion was restored in a tiny body that popped out of Magnus's chest. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#Resurrection Chapter|Resurrection Chapter}} Granted the ability to predict the future by his merging with Vector Sigma, Alpha Trion then foresaw that Megatron would return to his evil ways in the [[Legends World]] he had settled in. Seeking to stop this, the sage himself traveled to this other universe, using his diminutive body to disguise himself as a janitor at the [[Axalon Trading Company]] while waiting for Megatron to make his move. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

When the employees of Axalon Co. got curious about Metroplex—who'd ended up as their new office building after getting summoned into the Legends Universe—Alpha Trion taught them about the city-bot's past. He accidentally blew his cover by explaining he knew this much because he was from "the other world", though fortunately(?) the employees wrongly assumed he meant the world of the dead. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter|The Mysterious Knowledgeable Grandpa Chapter}} Alpha Trion was present when Megatron made his move, teaming up with [[Megatron (Armada)|Armada Megatron]] to conquer the Legends World. {{storylink|LG14 Ultra Magnus Prologue#The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter|The Autumn Megatron Festival Chapter}} In response, he cast his disguise aside and used an [[10.2 ultra-drill|ultra-drill]] to summon Ultra Magnus from their home universe. At first Magnus told Trion to get back in his chest, but the sage assured him he no longer needed Trion's Matrix power but had to rely on his own strength. After the Megatrons were defeated by Magnus, Alpha Trion confirmed to a curious [[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] that he could indeed predict the future, and had had a vision of the imminent arrival of [[Nightbird (G1)|Nightbird Shadow]], [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]], and [[Slipstream (Animated)|Slipstream]] as well. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 14|Bonus Edition Vol. 14}}

Alpha Trion later confirmed to a curious Rattrap that his new body was a [[Mini-Con]]-type one, though he got defensive when asked to display the third weapon mode Mini-Cons are supposed to have. Transforming into his hovercar mode, he claimed it was ''clearly'' a shield and displayed its usefulness by shielding Ultra Magnus from a barrage of lasers. Unfortunately his size meant he only took a fraction of the blasts, and Magnus was gunned down. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Alpha Trion Chapter|Alpha Trion Chapter}} Armada Megatron later bought an Ultra Magnus toy in order to examine it for the Autobot's weaknesses, defending his purchase of a non-Mini-Con toy to [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] by pointing out the Alpha Trion accessory. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Sequel#Armada Megatron Chapter|Armada Megatron Chapter}}

Thanks to Alpha Trion's premonitions, the Autobots were prepared for Slipstream's arrival in the Legends World and easily defeated her. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 16|Bonus Edition Vol. 16}} While doing janitor work at [[Tera-Kura Co.]], he overheard Megatron talk about his plan to steal energy from people, and summoned [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] into the Legends World as reinforcement. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 17|Bonus Edition Vol. 17}} When [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Armada Starscream]] attempted to sacrifice himself to prevent [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] from destroying the Legends World, Alpha Trion opened a portal to Starscream's home universe and brought forth [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]] to stop him. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 18|Bonus Edition Vol. 18}}

Alpha Trion was later contacted by the [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] of his home universe, who requested to be brought to the Legends World. {{storylink|LG19 Sprung Prologue}} Following Springer's arrival, Trion had his ultra-drill stolen by a jealous [[Tigatron]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 19|Bonus Edition Vol. 19}} He was later caught up in Megatron's attack on the city when the Decepticon briefly returned to being Galvatron. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 23|Bonus Edition Vol. 23}} Aware that Alpha Trion contained the power of the Matrix, [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] had [[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]] capture the sage as part of a bid to take over Tera-Kura, but he was freed when the Matrix energies overloaded and exploded Scourge's [[transtector]]. He went on to teach Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]] how to be proper janitors. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 26|Bonus Edition Vol. 26}} When Tera-Kura purchased Metroplex from Axalon, Alpha Trion joined the Decepticon company so that he could stay with Metroplex. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 31|Bonus Edition Vol. 31}}

Alpha Trion was pretty careless with his ultra-drill; after Tigatron, it was also stolen by [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 33|Bonus Edition Vol. 33}} and [[Weirdwolf (G1)|Weirdwolf]] to serve their own needs. {{storylink|LG-43 Trypticon Project Chapter}} He was present when [[Ginrai (human)|God Ginrai]] tried to force his way into Tera-Kura Co., {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 42|Bonus Edition Vol. 42}} and later had his drill nabbed again by [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Magna Convoy)|Bonus Edition Vol. EX}} When Weirdwolf's Decepticon faction attacked Tera-Kura to nab Metroplex's [[transformation cog]], Alpha Trion did his best to fight off [[Apeface]]. {{storylink|LG43 Trypticon Mobilization Chapter: Decepticon Civil War|Decepticon Civil War}} Weirdwolf used the cog to rebuild [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]], so Trion responded by summoning [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]], who had previously bested the monster. Following Trypticon's defeat, he also called for the [[Disaster Relief Team]] to rebuild [[Akihabara]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 43|Bonus Edition Vol. 43}} Alpha Trion was later kidnapped by [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]], [[Triggerhappy (G1)|Triggerhappy]] and [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]], who forced him to summon the six [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]] partners lost in the G1 World. He did as instructed only to find that the Targetmasters were emitting lethal amounts of [[plasma energy]], so he instead put the drill in reverse and scattered the six across the Legends World for everyone's safety. {{storylink|Mutant Targetmaster Birth Chapter}}

During a battle between Ultra Magnus and [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]], Alpha Trion entered Magnus's chest to lend him his power. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 50|Bonus Edition Vol. 50}} He contacted the [[Wreckers]] for help when the city came under attack from a [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]]-controlled Windblade. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} During the battle with [[Majin Zarak]], whom fate decreed could not be destroyed, Alpha Trion hooked his ultra-drill up to [[Twin Twist]]'s Drill Base in order to generate a giant portal that Zarak could be pushed through. Megatron then had him open portals all over the Legends World so the doomed world's citizens could be evacuated to the G1 World. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two}}

====''Wings Universe''====
{{Wingsnote}}

[[File:BattleLines6-stasishibernationpods.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67]]

After the ''[[Van De Graaff]]'' was shot down on [[Beta-Nine]], the proemial Alpha Unit of the [[Elite Guard]] managed to retrieve its cargo. The [[Matrix of Leadership|mysterious item]] was then delivered by [[Magnum]] to its custodian, Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Wings of Honor}}

Over the next ten years, the Decepticon insurrection became more fierce. Councilor Magnum continued to champion his Elite Guard, a series of strike teams dedicated to hunting down the [[Decepticon Warlord]]s to cut the many heads off the serpent. Councilor Alpha Trion, however, favored his own Prime Initiative, a general of sorts who would oversee the entire Autobot army as a unified force against the Decepticons. {{Storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 2}}

Despite their political differences, Alpha Trion and Magnum worked together as the situation called for it. When a group of civilian scientists and historians needed demolitions assistance at a dig site in [[Median]], Alpha Trion requested the help of Magnum's Elite Guard for the job. Of course, he neglected to mention some of the finer points of the mission, but such is politics. {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

After [[Dion (G1)|Dion]] and [[Magnum]] were injured in a Decepticon attack, they were taken to Alpha Trion. He was only able to save one of them, rebuilding the survivor into [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. As the war drained Cybertron's energy to dangerously low levels, Optimus left the planet on a mission to find more energy. Alpha Trion prepared stasis pods within which most of the remaining Autobot population would hibernate. As they placed the other Autobots in the pods, he warned [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] that remaining online during periods of low energy as he intended to do would greatly accelerate the aging process. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 6}}

When Optimus Prime and the other Autobots aboard the Ark were considered lost, Alpha Trion set about uniting the divided Cybertronian through other means. Using the remains of a Decepticon deep-space shuttle, he built [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] and brought him to life with the power of Vector Sigma, instructing the super-computer to imbue him with a need to unite Cybertron under one banner. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 44|''Wings Universe'' Jhiaxus profile}}

Centuries later, after the [[Great Transformation]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] dedicated himself to interfacing with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] in search of guidance from [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]]. After many failed attempts, Cheetor finally succeeded, instead meeting with Alpha Trion. Trion told Cheetor of his true destiny: to lead Cybertron into a new age of peace. Cheetor accepted his destiny and thus merged with Alpha Trion, becoming Alpha Trizer. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag|Alpha Trizer's profile}} In [[2984]] C.E. as Alpha Trizer engaged in combat against the [[Star Seeker]]s, the faces of Optimus Primal and Alpha Trion flashed through his mind. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag}}

====''Deviations''====
In an alternate timeline where [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] killed [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] in the [[Battle of Autobot City]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] ended up sacrificing himself to defeat [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megascream]] and [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]]. In the following [[Autobot]] celebration, Optimus Prime saw a vision of Alpha Trion and Rodimus Prime as equals within the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] and swore to never question its ways. {{Storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Letters page continuity====
[[Dreadwind (G1)|Dreadwind]] said that the events of "War Dawn" sounded like it happened, though he'd "never heard of this Alpha Trion character but then who am I?" {{storylink|Flashback!|268's Dread Tidings}}

===3H comics===
[[File:DepartureBetrayal-AlphaTrion.jpg|left|upright=1.66|thumb|Alpha Trion was various lions for all of two seconds, in one person's mind.]]
In the distant past, during the Cybertronians' rebellion against their Quintesson oppressors, A-3's mettle was tested in an encounter with a [[Dark Guardian]]. {{storylink|Disclosure}}

During [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]]'s rule of Cybertron, Alpha Trion was seemingly resurrected and/or reformatted as a lion by the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] to guide [[Primal Prime]] and his [[Wreckers|Wrecker]] in much the same way as he aided many previous Autobot leaders. {{storylink|Departure}} It is unclear whether this new form ever existed physically; its only appearance was as a vision in Primal Prime's head. {{storylink|Betrayal}} The ancient Autobot reached out and made contact with Primal Prime's spark, but his messages came through garbled and incomplete. Of the small amount of information he was able to transmit to Primal Prime was the fact that the Wreckers should believe in Primus's vision, and that their creator sometimes worked in mysterious ways... {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}}

[[File:Alphatrionuniverse.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|He said he was reformatted into a [[beast mode]], but he was lyin'.]]
Alpha Trion did not make a physical appearance after this enigmatic reintroduction until [[Unicron]] posed a new threat to the balance of the multiverse. Alpha Trion, though technically still merged with [[Primus]]/[[Vector Sigma]]/Whatever, was again in his original body (but now with a cape!). He/they pulled Cybertron's greatest hero, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]], back from the dead in order to rescue recently abducted Cybertronians from the center of the Chaos Bringer. {{storylink|Abduction}}

Though Primal was at first taken aback by the enormity of the task he had been assigned, Alpha Trion's pontification goaded him on in accepting the mission. When Primal succeeded at this monumental task, {{storylink|Escape (Universe)|Escape}} he confronted the [[Maximal High Council]] with one of his overblown speeches and was thrown in jail. Alpha Trion sent [[Snarl (BM)|Snarl]] to stage a small rescue of his own, and Primal was returned to the center of Cybertron. Here, Alpha Trion presented Primal with a window into the past, present, and future of the [[Transformer afterlife|Allspark]], from which he could pluck any warrior, whether they be living or dead. Primal chose [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depthcharge]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]], the former of whom rejected Primal's calling. Alpha Trion quieted Primal's disappointment, letting Depthcharge go, expecting him to return of his own accord. To take his place, Alpha Trion pulled [[Omega Prime]] from [[Viron 903.0 Beta|a Viron universe]]. {{storylink|Homecoming (Universe)|Homecoming}}
{{--}}

===Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity===
[[File:Alphatriondw.jpg|left|thumb|Most people kill their prizes before hanging them on their wall. Shockwave is not most people.]]
Eons ago, Alpha Trion kept watch over the Transformers when Primus entered his eternal sleep to hide Cybertron from Unicron. However, a nomadic alien race eventually conquered Cybertron, and Alpha Trion was forced into hiding. Thousands of Transformers were slaughtered, and Alpha Trion was unable to act. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide}} Alpha Trion performed actions that would make him known as the savior of his race. {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}}

Alpha Trion was attached to the supercomputer Vector Sigma, and was its caretaker from the [[Golden Age]] to the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. He was considered the only Transformer capable of accessing all of the computer's functions. In his position, he disagreed with the [[Council of Ancients]]' esoteric mysticism, wishing to make the Transformers' place in the cosmos more known. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #8}} Despite this, he was a secret guiding force behind the Council and its selection of Primes. He was fond of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], both with whom he had a special bond. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

After the [[Great Shutdown]], [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] was awakened. Soon after, he met [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]], who somehow led the [[Decepticon]] to Alpha Trion. Alpha Trion was incapacitated and hung on a wall in Shockwave's laboratory for analysis, to assist Shockwave in his attempt to control Vector Sigma. The ancient Cybertronian constantly foiled his attempts to analyze him; nevertheless, Shockwave swore that the savior of their race would become its "greatest destroyer". {{storylink|Cold War (issue)|Cold War}} As Shockwave's plans reached fruition, the last remaining "ancient program" for him to decode was Alpha Trion. However, Shockwave's machinations were foiled by his apparent and untimely demise. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}}

Alpha Trion's last days were recorded to be deep within Cybertron, preparing the Transformers and Cybertron for their darkest hour. {{Storylink|Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye #1}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[File:Historyofcybertron.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|Trukk... and munky?]]
When [[Serpentor|Serpent O.R.]] downloaded some of [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s memories, he saw Alpha Trion and his role in the [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|rebellion]] against the [[Quintesson]]s. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 1|The Art of War #1}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Megatron Origin issue 3|''Megatron Origin'' #3]]}}

[[File:OriginMyths-ThePrimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]

In the years that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], Alpha Trion emerged as one of the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s, leading one of the [[Thirteen Tribes]] some twelve million years ago. He was well known as a chronicler and record-keeper of Cybertronian history; {{storylink|The Crucible}} though he did not have the same heroic reputation as the other Primes, he was a well-versed historian, librarian, and orator. {{storylink|White Light}} In his youth, he studied some of the mythical [[Artifacts of the Primes|artifacts]] that would come to be wielded by the Primes, such as the ancient [[Enigma of Combination]], {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} and learned as much as he could about the primitive tribes that inhabited prehistoric Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}}

Alpha Trion would join forces with four other Primes: [[Alchemist Prime|Alchemist]], [[Vector Prime|Vector]], [[Solus Prime|Solus]], and [[Nexus Prime]], and together they established a village they called the [[Crystal City]]. As a storyteller and keeper of legends, Trion encouraged the tribes to work together by regaling them with tales of [[Primus]] and the [[Guiding Hand]], believing that the kernels of truth passed down through his tales could inspire others to perform great deeds.

[[File:OriginMyths-AlchemistPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|"Go home Alchemist, you're drunk."]]

Their early efforts were threatened by the advancing armies of the [[Darklands]]; shortly after the Darklanders slaughtered [[Septimus Prime]] and sacked [[Protihex|Protohex]], another Prime, going by the name of "[[Onyx Prime|Onyx]]", arrived to propose an alliance, bringing with him his comrade [[Liege Maximo]] and an army of [[Beast mode|bestial]] warriors. "Onyx" professed scorn for Trion's belief in the Guiding Hand, but Trion spoke to him privately and made him see the inspirational power that his stories possessed. Onyx pressed him to convince the other Primes into allying with him; once united, their forces took to the field against the Darklanders. As the battle raged, events took an unexpected turn when three [[Titan (group)|Titans]] emerged from the depths of the planet. In the impromptu ceasefire, Onyx was able to reach the enemy leader [[The Fallen|Megatronus]] and convince him to lay down arms and agree to a proper truce. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

The other Primes never learned the truth about Onyx Prime: the bestial Prime was an identity of convenience assumed by a time-travelling [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]; using Megatronus as a catspaw, he had deliberately engineered the war between the Darklanders and the Crystal City in order to bring the Primes together under a single banner, one of many historical paradoxes he would engineer using his foreknowledge of Cybertron's long history. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

In the ensuing celebration, Trion soon became wary of his new ally: "Onyx" had begun telling "stories" of his own, thus seeding history with more paradoxes, including the "[[Dark Cybertron (prophecy)|Dark Cybertron]]" prophecy that his younger self would one day study and attempt to bring about. Trion's concerns were echoed by the Darklander warrior [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]], who believed that the Primes would eventually grow drunk on their own superiority and become tyrants. Trion solemnly told Arcee that it would be the job of their followers to keep the Primes in check. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

[[File:OmegasConundrum-Metroplex.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Because he's the wise sage Cybertron deserves, but not the one it needs right now.]]

Determined to see as much of his planet as he could before it all changed, Trion befriended the Titan [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], and the pair set off to explore and chart Cybertron. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} Over the next two million years, the initial coalition of Primes were joined by five more, and thus united the Primes became the alliance known as the [[Thirteen]], led by [[Prima]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} In the ensuing era of peace, Trion became known as "The Trion" and developed his famed reputation for storytelling. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Other Primes had grown arrogant, however and began spreading rumors that only a Prime could kill another Prime, to ensure their reign would last forever. {{storylink|The Crucible}} None of the twelve Primes ever suspected that "Onyx Prime" had continued to manipulate them, and, as he had once brought them together, planned to tear them apart once more. Indeed, "Onyx" soon realized that he could permanently keep Trion's suspicions at bay simply by spinning one convincing story after another. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-AntillanWar.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.85]]
"Onyx" set his plans in motion by encouraging Prima to commission an interstellar mission of goodwill, designed to share the "enlightened" civilization of Cybertron with their neighbors. Alpha Trion joined the voyage as its official record-keeper, and joined by [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] and his [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinels]], the Cybertronian expedition set off for the organic world of [[Antilla]], its resources making it ripe for colonization. When the detachment arrived however, the [[Antillan]]s fought back against the invaders. Over the course of this brief war, "Onyx"—despite Trion's misgivings—announced that this world now belonged to Alpha Trion, the first of Cybertron's thirteen "colonies". When recording these events however, Trion would write that the Antillan mission had been one of peace and that the natives had been the ones who fired first. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} {{storylink|Our Finest}}

On returning to Cybertron, "Onyx" continued to secretly sow discord, and manipulated events so that a furious Megatronus would slay [[Solus Prime]] in an attempted coup against Prima. Alpha Trion agreed that Liege Maximo, who had seemingly masterminded the coup that had led to her death, had forfeited his right to live on Cybertron and watched as his fellow Primes imprisoned Liege Maximo aboard [[Vigilem]].

Determined to bring Solus Prime's killer to justice, Alpha Trion joined "Onyx" and Prima aboard Prima's Titan, [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]]. The three Primes tracked Megatronus to the barren world of [[Tsiehshi]], but Trion stayed behind while the other two Primes went to confront Megatronus in a final duel. Only "Onyx Prime" returned, informing the record-keeper that Prima had sacrificed himself to end Megatronus's life. The reality was more complicated, however: "Onyx" had simply let Megatronus kill Prima, then, his usefulness at an end, killed Megatronus. Trion was once more swayed by "Onyx Prime's" well-told tale, and so this account became the "official" version of events that would find its way into the chronicles of Cybertron... and thus, the inspiration for the lie that the time-traveling Shockwave used to cover up the truth. Returning to Cybertron, Trion and the five remaining Primes watched as Emissary interred Prima's remains within his body and left Cybertron, unaware that his systems had been sabotaged by "Onyx". {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheMindBomb-TrionAndGalvatron.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|left]]
With the Primes reduced in number and divided from within, they and their followers soon fell to war with one another in the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]], {{storylink|Heavy}} the outcome Shockwave had been aiming for all along. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Trion was not an active participant in the war, instead hoping to find a way to end the conflict as bloodlessly as possible. When the warrior [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] slaughtered [[Nexus Prime]] and dispelled the rumors that the Primes were immortal, fear for their own safety prompted the last of the Primes to flee Cybertron, one by one, until only Alpha Trion remained. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:TheCrucible AlphaTrionRevealed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]
Determined to bring the war to an end, Alpha Trion approached Galvatron during the [[Battle of Aegiax]] to request his help in bringing peace to Cybertron—promising the bloodthirsty barbarian whatever he wanted in exchange. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}} Trion led Galvatron to the [[Citadel of Light]], former home of [[Prima]] and his tribe, and watched Galvatron and Prima's last follower [[Nova Prime|Nova Major]] defeat the remnants of Onyx Prime's forces. When the battle was won, Alpha Trion introduced himself to Nova, who was not quick to believe Trion's claim to Primehood until Trion pummeled him into submission. Together, the trio made for "Onyx Prime's" castle in [[Kalis]] to verify Trion's belief that the other Primes had disappeared. Their way into the castle was barred by the sole remaining warrior, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox of the Mournsong]], but he was quickly intimidated into letting them pass. Discovering that "Onyx" had indeed vanished, Nova announced his plan to take control of Cybertron and unify its tribes, and Alpha Trion, feeling this was the best course of action for Cybertron's people, gladly stood aside and let Nova assume the title of Prime.

After taking control of Cybertron, Nova directed his attention to decoding the secrets of the Thirteen, beginning with Nexus Prime's Enigma of Combination. Galvatron was the only one of them who ''didn't'' want to uncover the Enigma, and continually insisted that the Enigma was gone, just like its creator. Trion became curious by Galvatron's claims and pointed out that everyone ''except'' Galvatron talked of the Enigma as if it were merely a concept, but Galvatron spoke of it as a physical object. One look in Galvatron's eyes provided Alpha with all the explanation he needed to arrive at the answer. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

Over the next few million years, Alpha Trion was content to let himself fade into the background of Cybertronian life, allowing himself to be "forgotten" after the disastrous fall of the Primes. {{storylink|The Crucible}} When Nova Prime and his crew—which included Galvatron—departed Cybertron six million years ago, Alpha Trion blessed their starship, the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]''. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} Following the disappearance of the ''Ark'', memorial lectures were held in honor of Nova, during which Alpha Trion gave a speech about [[Primus]]. {{storylink|Primus: You, Me, and Other Revelations}} Alpha Trion's various compendiums regarding the early histories of Cybertron were of interest to the younger Senator [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], and thus would go on to form the basis for many of "Onyx Prime's" manipulations to the timeline. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:MO3 EOOPAT funeral.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5]]
Nova Prime, thought dead, would eventually be supplanted by [[Nominus Prime]], and, later, [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]. Unaware that Sentinel Prime was a false identity constructed by the ancient [[Titan Master]] [[Infinitus]], Alpha Trion was known to have stood up against "Sentinel Prime's" increasingly fascistic ideals. {{storylink|White Light}} At the request of a [[blacksmith]], Trion bore witness to the birth of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]], agreeing that there was something special about the newborn. {{storylink|Post}} Four million years ago, as [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Decepticon]] uprising took shape, Alpha Trion attended the funerals of [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]] and [[Fastback (G1)|Fastback]]. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3|Megatron Origin #3}}

Because of Alpha Trion's intimate knowledge of Cybertron's surface, he accompanied Orion Pax and [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] on a mission into the treacherous [[Rust Sea|Rust Spot]] to swap Decepticon prisoners for the captured [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]]. This was merely a ruse to draw out Alpha Trion, who the Decepticons wanted in order to help locate Metroplex. Due to Orion Pax's valiant actions, Alpha Trion and the other Autobots escaped with their lives. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}} The Autobots did get something out of Alpha Trion though; confirmation that the Titans were indeed real. {{storylink|The Hunting Party (IDW)|The Hunting Party}}

Once Orion Pax had become Optimus Prime, he broadcast a message to all Cybertronians, asking them to join him in the fight against the Decepticons and beginning the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. Alpha Trion watched this broadcast with interest from the archives of [[Kutanzuule]]. {{storylink|Broadcast}} He soon came in contact with the young Prime to offer him advice and guidance in his early days as Autobot leader. {{storylink|Derelicts}} When Optimus blamed himself for being unable to stop the [[Exodus (event)|Exodus]], Alpha Trion assured him that sometimes a leader's role was to let their followers go and make their own decisions. {{storylink|The Illusion of Control}} Alpha Trion was surprised when Optimus rediscovered the long lost [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], and advised him to accept that the ancient guardian would not easily reintegrate into society. {{storylink|Primacy issue 2|Primacy #2}}

[[File:HelloCruelWorld-AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.7]]
500,000 years ago, Alpha Trion chose to leave Cybertron together with Metroplex, partly to keep the Titan and his technology out of Decepticon hands, but also to investigate [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]'s [[Regenesis]] plan. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} After exploring space for millennia, Alpha Trion came to realize that Shockwave had not seeded his miraculous ores randomly—each had been sent to a planet that Shockwave believed one of the Thirteen had gone after they had fled Cybertron, and the thirteenth planet was the resting place of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Crucible}}

[[File:Ironing Out the Details Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|Metal beards are ridiculous! But ''cloth'' beards are super okay.]]
The pair briefly returned to Cybertron in [[1997]]; by this point, the planet had been rendered virtually uninhabitable by war, and so Trion began trying to restore it. Operating out of Metroplex, Trion spent the next decade processing the corrosive elements out of Cybertron's atmosphere, slowly making it habitable again. After 2008, the problem was compounded by a monstrous [[Insecticon swarm]] that had overrun the planet. Requiring the toughest of the tough to obliterate the swarm, Alpha Trion selected [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] to do the job. That Ironhide was across the galaxy on Earth mattered little: Ironhide would eventually die some day, Trion rationalized, and so he built a duplicate body on Cybertron into which he could implant Ironhide's spark and memories once he passed on and returned to the "[[Transformer afterlife|core]]". With Vector Sigma having been essentially erased in the event that devastated Cybertron, this took Alpha Trion years and pushed his skills to their limit, but once Ironhide died on Earth in 2010, the ancient Autobot's grand work was complete, and Ironhide returned to life on Cybertron in the new body constructed for him. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

Ironhide awoke in confusion, his memories incomplete due to damage he had suffered millions of years beforehand that had disrupted his link to the core, and wandered Cybertron's wastes until Alpha Trion dispatched his [[Scamper|page]] to bring the befuddled warrior to Metroplex's city mode. Alpha Trion took umbrage at the fact Ironhide had never heard of his ancient greatness, and revealed his incredible powers over his own electromagnetic aura by using it to control Ironhide's actions when the ornery Autobot started to get a little rough. Ironhide further tested Trion's patience when he ignored his cautions and ventured out to track down the near-dead [[Sunstreaker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sunstreaker]] (even if Sunstreaker ''had'' heard of him). Finally, Trion relented to Ironhide's constant questioning and explained the reason he had brought him back online: to exterminate the swarm. {{storylink|Ironing Out the Details}}

[[File:AnyOldIron IronhidePunchesTrion.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.6|"Oh sorry, I thought you were [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] for a second."]]
While Ironhide took out of most of the swarm in a brutal battle, Trion busied himself repairing Sunstreaker. After Ironhide returned, Trion announced that he and Metroplex were leaving Cybertron for parts unknown while Ironhide mopped up the remaining Insecticons. Infuriated by the old 'bots condescending attitude, Ironhide slugged him one, but Alpha Trion let it slide, putting Ironhide in his place by telling him he was just a small playing piece in a very large game. Before departing, however, Alpha Trion softened, congratulating Ironhide on saving the entire planet. After all, the only other Autobot would could make that claim... was he. {{storylink|Any Old Iron}}

In 2012, Alpha Trion finally deduced that the Enigma of Combination had landed on [[Earth]]. Hoping to recover it before Shockwave could harness its power for his own ends, {{storylink|The Crucible}} Trion left Metroplex to fend off the next stage of Shockwave's ultimate plan by himself. Trion set course for Earth to retrieve what he called the "holy grail", and was thus unable to turn back and help when his Titan companion was infected with an [[alchemical virus]]. After crossing paths with the ''[[Vis Vitalis]]'', he convinced [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]'s [[Caminus (planet)|Camien]] associates, [[Cityspeaker]] [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and her compatriots [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] and [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]], to use their [[Cityspeaker|cityspeaking]] skills to aid the Titan in his place. {{storylink|Burning Bright: Dark Cybertron Chapter 8|Burning Bright}} {{storylink|A 'Bot and Her City}} Alpha Trion also tasked the three with delivering a simple message for Optimus Prime: "Earth." {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}} Shockwave saw Alpha Trion in a vision of things that would come to pass during the Dark Cybertron prophecy. {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}}

[[File:Full Fathom Five Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|left]]
Alpha Trion made it to Earth shortly before Shockwave enacted the final stage of his plan; unfortunately for him, however, his ship was shot down by the [[Earth Defense Command]], {{storylink|The Crucible}} and both he and his vessel were interred at the EDC's primary headquarters in the [[Marshall Islands|Bikini Atoll]] for study. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} After finally meeting Optimus in person, Windblade passed Trion's message along and Optimus and a group of Autobots travelled to Earth to find him. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 1: Hello Cruel World|Hello Cruel World}}

A month later, [[Jazz (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jazz]] infiltrated the EDC base and stumbled on him while investigating the EDC's use of Cybertronian tech. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 4: Full Fathom Five|Full Fathom Five}} Knowing he was hooked up to an alarm and that the EDC's "[[mindbomb]]" couldn't have been created from just ''his'' brain, [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] stopped Jazz from rescuing Alpha Trion immediately in order to investigate further. After deactivating the alarms they took Alpha Trion and fled on [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], where a merry Trion's reunion with Optimus Prime was cut short by a coughing fit, prompting [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]] to take him away and have a look at his injuries. {{storylink|Earthfall Part 5: I Dream of Wires|I Dream of Wires}}

[[File:TheCrucible MoonMeeting.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.5]]
Alpha Trion had Optimus Prime take him to the [[Moon (moon)|moon]], away from prying ears, to share with him why Earth was so important. He told the story about how he brought Galvatron and Nova Prime together, shocking and angering Optimus with the fact that he was one of the Thirteen Primes and let Nova Prime's reign happen, before revealing the presence of the Enigma of Combination on Earth. {{storylink|The Crucible}} They subsequently returned to the ''[[Ark-7]]'', where Jetfire found their trip had worsened Alpha Trion's condition and admonished Prime. When Prime then returned to Cybertron for what he claimed were political reasons, Trion poked fun at him until he admitted he also had a personal reason, namely the anniversary of him becoming Prime. {{storylink|Onyx Interface Part One: Signals, Calls, and Marches|Signals, Calls, and Marches}}

[[File:TheNothingMan-alphatrionwithenigmacode.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|left]]
When the ''Ark-7'' came under attack and the Autobots lost control of the ship, Alpha Trion recognized why—its computers had been infected with the source code of the Enigma of Combination. {{storylink|The Nothing Man}} Joining [[Sideswipe (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sideswipe]] and [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] as they fought their way through the ship's defenses towards its [[Space bridge|spacebridge]], Trion described the Enigma as one of the "metaphors made real" devised by the ancient Primes and that normal Transformers couldn't fight against it. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 1: Aphelion|Aphelion}} They reached their goal only to be greeted by a group of Decepticons who'd arrived through the spacebridge to capture the ship, {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} prompting Sideswipe to hide the still injured Alpha Trion away from harm in a storage compartment. {{storylink|Conquerors Part 4: Perihelion|Perihelion}}

After the Decepticons had crashed the ship onto Earth, Trion and the others were recovered by Optimus Prime's forces. Once they'd relocated, he was shocked to hear that Optimus had started a war with Earth in an attempt to annex it, and wondered what his plan was now. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 1: Once Upon a Time on Earth|Once Upon a Time on Earth}} He was present when Optimus returned after an ill-fated confrontation between [[Aileron]] and the [[President of the United States]]. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 2: Edge of the Earth|Edge of the Earth}} When the Autobots joined forces with [[Soundwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Soundwave]]'s Decepticons against Galvatron, Alpha Trion's status as another Prime distressed Soundwave. He remained at their [[Monument Valley]] base caring for [[Buster (IDW)|Buster]] during the actual attack, but an attack on ''them'' by the humans caused the dog to run off with [[D.0.C.]] {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 4: It's Beginning To And Back Again|It's Beginning To And Back Again}} As the battle raged on, Alpha Trion encouraged Optimus Prime to search within himself for the reason he had chosen this particular valley as their base, which led to Optimus realizing [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]] was hidden beneath the surface and awakening him. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 5: As Above...So Below|As Above...So Below}}

[[File:WhiteLight-trionandinfinitus.jpg|thumb|right]]
Alpha Trion watched Metrotitan transform into [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], the Cybertronian embassy on Earth. {{storylink|All Hail Optimus Part 6: No Fair Fights|No Fair Fights}} After this he sought another Prime-to-Prime talk with Optimus, but Optimus postponed it in favor of having him coordinate the aftermath of the battle with Galvatron's soldiers. {{storylink|The Last Autobot}}

While resting at Autobot City, Alpha Trion was confronted by a diminutive Cybertronian who introduced himself as "[[Infinitus]]", decrying Trion as the weakest of the original [[Thirteen]]. Alpha Trion was confused by Infinitus, but as the interloper pontificated about his plan to wipe Cybertron clean of "vermin" and return it to its [[Golden Age]], Alpha Trion realized that his visitor was none other than the 'bot he had once known as [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]! Sentinel Prime deployed a set of blades from his forearms and pounced on Trion, decapitating him. While Optimus and Soundwave were waylaid, Infinitus used his [[Titan Master]] powers to puppeteer Trion's body, escaping in its spaceship configuration. {{storylink|White Light}} After using it to fetch [[Sovereign]], herald of Onyx Prime and fellow Titan Master, Infinitus passed control of the body on to him. When Infinitus and Sovereign confronted Optimus Prime and Soundwave, Soundwave used Alpha Trion's sword to remove Sovereign, and Trion's head and body were recovered. They were returned to Cybertron and reunited by [[Fixit (G1)|Fixit]], who explained that the old Autobot would survive. {{storylink|White Heat}}

Alpha Trion then got an apartment and spruced it up with all manner of literary texts. Prior to Earth officially joining the Cybertronian [[Council of Worlds]], he was visited by Optimus, Pyra and Starscream and recounted the tale of the unification of the Thirteen and the "first face". Once he was finished, he defended himself to a skeptical Starscream, saying he simply told the story. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

When [[Thundercracker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Thundercracker]] ran into story difficulties in making [[Starscream: The Movie (film)|his film about Starscream]], he sought out Alpha Trion for his views regarding Starscream being labelled as the "Chosen One". Alpha Trion felt that Metrotitan had been spouting random nonsense in his damaged state with Starscream just having been in the right place to take advantage of it. Nonetheless, he gave Thundercracker advice that instead of using his film to spread lies about Starscream, he should instead use the power of stories to present truths that would inspire his audience. {{storylink|Starscream: The Movie (comic)|Starscream: The Movie}}

[[File:AnotherMine OnyxAlphaReunited.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.3|"But enough about me, let's kill ''you!''"]]
After [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] became ruler of Cybertron, Trion met with the [[Mistress of Flame]] who recounted to him an encounter she had with Onyx Prime on Antilla. Alpha Trion had also invited [[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]] to the discussion in the hopes that the highly religious Mistress and the recently atheist Constructicon could each teach the other something. Onyx Prime himself returned to Cybertron that very day with the captive Liege Maximo, much to everyone's apprehension. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 1: Surfeit of Primes|Surfeit of Primes}} Trion joined the subsequent meeting at the [[Spire]], but as tensions mounted between the trio of Primes, the religious colonists, and Soundwave—who refused to let the Primes reassert themselves as leaders—Trion was struck by a devastating epiphany: the 'bot he believed to be "Onyx Prime" was, in fact, Shockwave, who had manipulated him all these years. Before he could warn his allies of "Onyx Prime"'s true intentions, a powerful blast ripped through the Spire and mortally wounded him. Soundwave rushed to his side, but was unable to do anything more than pronounce him dead. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 2: Another Mine|Another Mine}}

When Soundwave sacrificed his life to help defeat [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]], he saw a vision of the many deceased- Alpha Trion included, welcoming him into the [[Transformer afterlife|Afterspark]]. {{storylink|Ceremony}} As Optimus Prime himself died, he remembered all the major moments of his life and pondered if Trion being present at his forging was proof that he'd been [[The Arisen]]. {{storylink|Post}}

====Vision of the future====
In a vision of the future seen by Ironhide and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] during the reformatting of Cybertron, Alpha Trion lived on a prosperous [[Gorlam Prime]] fifteen million years from now, telling young Transformers the history of their race and their struggles. His closest friend at this time was an aged Ironhide, who Alpha frequently comforted as Ironhide struggled to find his place in the new civilization. {{storylink|Pax Cybertronia (issue)|Pax Cybertronia}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
[[Preditron]] remembered Alpha Trion as an inspirational figure, one who exemplified the best qualities of the Autobots. {{storylink|The Predacon Manifesto}}

[[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] knew the books of Alpha Trion to hold that countless Cybertrons existed in the multiverse. {{storylink|Alone Together: Prologue}}

While interacting with the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]], [[Overshoot]] witnessed flashes of Cybertron's long history, including Alpha Trion wielding his [[Quill]]. {{storylink|Cultural Appropriation}}

===''Transformers vs. G.I. Joe''===
[[File:Everybody Hates Metroplex - Vision of Alpha Trion passing the Matrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
As he lay dying, Alpha Trion passed the Matrix of Leadership down to Optimus Prime, an event that would later be plucked from Prime's memories and scrutinized during his [[Quintesson]] trial. {{storylink|Everybody Hates Metroplex}} His spirit passed into the Matrix, where it would later haunt [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] after he'd stolen the artifact. {{storylink|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe issue 12|Transformers vs. G.I. Joe #12}} The spirits of Alpha Trion and other past Matrix holders manifested again when Optimus Prime took back the Matrix. {{storylink|The War Never Ends}}

{{--}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
When questioned if Alpha Trion was [[Solomus]], [[Vector Prime]] just said that his brethren went by many faces and names. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/01}}

===''Prime Wars Trilogy'' marketing material===
[[File:PowerOfTheTitanMasters-alphatrion.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was partnered with the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], who granted him the power of Primus himself. {{storylink|#Generations|''Titans Return'' Sovereign/Alpha Trion toy bio}} On the planet [[Jungle Planet (colony)|Eukaris]], Alpha Trion and [[Grimlock (G1)|Clobber]] discovered an ancient artifact linked to the [[Titan (group)|Titan]]s and Titan Masters. They were attacked by a contingent of Decepticons intent on ambushing the two Autobots and stealing the artifact for themselves, but [[Apeface]] managed to blow their cover and give the Autobots time to fight back. {{storylink|Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters}}

Alpha Trion's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Trion's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|#Power of the Primes|''Power of the Primes'' Landmine / Alpha Trion online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Alpha Trion's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}
{{--}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
[[File:StormHorizonPart2-Soundblaster.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]

A stained-glass mural of Alpha Trion existed next to other members in Cybertronian history. {{storylink|The Cracks Beneath Your Feet Part Five}} Alpha Trion was active in the days before the [[War of the Threefold Spark]], and attempted to teach his mentee [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] about sympathy and compassion. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}} Trion bore witness to the war that followed, his spark weeping for those that were extinguished.

When the [[Tether]] had fallen, Alpha Trion had left Cybertron, hunting down ancient Cybertronian artefacts across the galaxy. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 1}} Trion's search led him to the [[Decimus Sector]]. Knowing that [[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]]'s crew had mapped the [[Black Sphere]] region, he bargained for usage of a [[Kworian]] starship, eventually finding himself in [[Soundblaster (G1)|Soundblaster]]'s company. Though Trion had left a series of signal markers, their proximity to the [[black hole]] gave an exaggerated account of how long he'd been gone, sending Ultra Magnus on a search for him. Via [[hologram]], Trion projected himself to his mentee on the planet [[Obsidar]] just as Soundblaster's vessel came under attack from a fleet of starships. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 2}}

Obsessed with his profits, Soundblaster refused to let Alpha Trion go free, forcing Ultra Magnus to board the ship and rescue his mentor. With Trion noting that the Kworians were unlikely to stand down, the two left the ship to be destroyed by the black hole and retreated to the ''[[Fist of Iacon]]''. Setting course for home, the crew discovered that Megatron had overthrown the [[Senate]] but Alpha Trion reassured everyone that with faith in their cause and courage, they would see through this crisis and emerge stronger. {{storylink|Storm Horizon Part 3}}

{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Ben Jurand]] (English), [[Banjō Ginga]] (Japanese)|[[Dario de Castro]] (Portuguese), [[Mathieu Buscatto]] (French), [[Samuel Zekarias]] (German), [[Jesús Carrasco]] (Castilian Spanish), [[José Luis Orozco]] (Latin-American Spanish)}}
[[File:WFC-Earthrise-Ep5-Alpha-Trion-threatens-Sky-Lynx.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4]]

In Cybertron's past, Alpha Trion led the planet into a rebellion against its [[Quintesson|oppressors]], and mentored [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] {{storylink|Siege episode 1}} as his students to bring change and good to Cybertron. Alpha Trion also protected the [[Matrix of Leadership]], waiting for one worthy enough to be chosen. The arrogant [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] time and time again tried to claim the talisman until Alpha Trion used the [[Staff of Solus]] to banish the draconian to the [[Dead Universe]]. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} At some point, Alpha Trion studied the mystical [[AllSpark]], proving its existence, {{storylink|Siege episode 2}} and knew where it was located. {{storylink|Siege episode 4}}

As the Autobots and Decepticons diverged and Megatron started his own revolution, the former student murdered Alpha Trion. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}} The Matrix of Leadership chose Optimus Prime as its next bearer and Magnus inherited the sum total of Alpha Trion's knowledge in the form of the [[Alpha Trion Protocols]]. Trion, greatly missed by many, was awarded a memorial in the mass-grave at [[Tarn-Hauser Gate]]. When Megatron murdered Ultra Magnus, the Alpha Trion Protocols chose the scavenger [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. He spoke to a simulacrum of Alpha Trion that persisted within the Protocols, {{storylink|Siege episode 4}} but it was destroyed when [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] engineered a virus against it. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}}

While in the Dead Universe, both Optimus and Megatron looked back to when Alpha Trion had mentored them and Ultra Magnus, but the Decepticon leader only let it fuel his hatred. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}} When the Autobots and [[Maximal]]s searched for the AllSpark on Earth, the artifact produced an illusion of Alpha Trion to Optimus Prime, part of its defense mechanism to lead would-be threats astray. Optimus followed the projection until it led him to a mortally wounded [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and the Matrix of Leadership. {{storylink|Kingdom episode 3}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Go! Go!''===
{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Go! Go! issue 42}}}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Legends''===
[[File:AlphaTrionG1-MegatronOriginLegends.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest Transformers alive. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

Sentinel Prime sent Alpha Trion out to investigate an uprising of working-class robots. Alpha Trion uncovered that Senator Ratbat has shut down a mine, which catapulted into motion the Decepticon movement. He reported his findings to Sentinel Prime, and Ratbat was forced to flee for his life. {{storylink|Megatron Origins}}

[[File:AlphaTrionG1-GoldenAgeLegends.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.4]]

Alpha Trion, alongside Nightbeat and Orion Pax, was to escort the Decepticons Rack'n'Ruin in a prisoner exchange with the Decepticons. Though they encountered [[Slicer (group)|Slicers]] en route, the group eventually met up with Bludgeon. But instead of the agreed upon exchange, Bludgeon and the Decepticons ambushed the Autobots, leading to Alpha Trion's capture. He was rescued and returned to Zeta Prime's protective custody thanks to Nightbeat and Orion Pax's efforts. {{storylink|Orion's Gambit}}

When Orion Pax and Ariel were seriously injured by the Decepticons, the Aerialbots took the pair to Trion, who rebuilt them into [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]]. He also aided the Aerialbots in returning to their own time through the [[Chronogon]] portal. {{storylink|Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age}}
{{--}}

===''Angry Birds Transformers''===
{{main|Mighty Eagle#As Alpha Trion}}
Alpha Trion appears as a character unlockable in Challenge Events. He is portrayed by Mighty Eagle. {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}

===''Transformers Roleplaying Game''===
Alpha Trion was one of the oldest living Cybertronians. While not technically an Autobot, he happily provided them with advice and lore from Cybertron's prehistoric past. {{storylink|Transformers Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook|Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
[[File:EW-Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|right|150px|]]
Alpha Trion has said he had not borne arms for many centuries. {{Storylink|The Nemesis (Earth Wars)|The Nemesis}}

Alpha Trion was one of the original Thirteen Primes.

[[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]] had found evidence of recent time travel and told the other Autobots. Prowl suspected it was Alpha Trion and the other [[Council of Autobot Elders|Autobot Elders]] who had traveled to the past. Perceptor agreed, knowing that since Alpha Trion was a High Councillor, he would have direct access to Vector Sigma. Windblade feared this could lead to more Time Wars. {{Storylink|Lost In Time}}

{{Charstubgames|{{Storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}

==Toys==
===''Expanded Universe''===
[[File:Alphalion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|"im not ownable! im not ownable!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a lion]]
:A redeco of ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' Deluxe Class [[Snarl (BM)#Toys|Snarl]] was planned as Alpha Trion for the [[BotCon|OTFCC]] ''[[Transformers: The Wreckers|Wreckers]]'' storyline, but this concept never made it past the paint mock-up stage.

:A redecoed [[Lio Convoy#Beast Wars|Lio Convoy]] was also considered by [[3H Productions|3H]] for Alpha Trion around the same time, and it was sort of this version that briefly appeared in the comic book ([[#3H comics|see above]]). Though the toy [[Prototype|mock-up]] used Snarl, 3H hoped they could finagle the use of the Lio Convoy mold. The wireframe appearance of "Alpha Lion" in [[Departure|''The Wreckers'' #1]] used Lio Convoy's body, but Snarl's head, hopefully allowing 3H to fudge either way, should they come to a decision. They didn't!

::*''[http://www.transformertoys.co.uk/resources/review/universe/alpha+trion/3368 Image gallery of the Alpha Trion Snarl redeco purchased from the Hartmans]''

{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-AlphaTrion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm not evil! Honest!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Alpha Trion / Weirdwolf''' (Souvenir two-pack, 2007)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, missile, Cyber Key

: The first actual toy of Alpha Trion (well, sorta, we'll get to that in a moment) is a [[retool]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' Voyager Class [[Vector Prime#Cybertron|Vector Prime]], [[redeco]]ed in purple, white, and red, plus a new head designed by [[Dan Khanna]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Here's some Transformers Legends Alpha Trion card art I pencilled for the game. ( colors by Volta studios ) They based this off the Botcon 2007 toy. ( where I designed a new head for the Vector Prime mold.) https://t.co/hfDwLjQHlc|link=https://twitter.com/DantheArtguy/status/1326732569140977669|name=DantheArtguy|site=Twitter|year=2020|month=11|day=12|(defunct=)}}</ref> He transforms into a large Cybertronian space cruiser with "solar panel" wings. His nosecone has a spring-loaded missile launcher at the tip. Inserting his [[Cyber Key]] (painted gold to resemble the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]) does not activate any sounds, unlike Vector Prime's toy. Alpha Trion has the more flexible translucent plastic parts ([[for safety reasons]]) of the [[Hasbro]] version of the mold. His starship mode also has a socket to snugly fit his pack-in partner [[Beta Maxx (RID)#Toys|Beta Maxx]].

: Released under the ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' banner, he was only available in a bagged "souvenir set" with Beta Maxx and [[Weirdwolf (G1)#Timelines|Weirdwolf]] at [[BotCon 2007]], limited to 1400 pieces.

: While this figure's design obviously derives from depictions of Generation 1 Alpha Trion, the accompanying profile card ''very vaguely'' describes the [[Alpha Trion (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' incarnation of Alpha Trion]]. And roughly a year after its release, the ''Timelines'' fiction made the big reveal that yes, this was the villainous incarnation. For many years there was dispute as to whose page this toy should go on according to the wiki's classification system, but in 2013, this toy appeared in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Legends]]'' mobile game event "[[Golden Age (Legends)|Golden Age]]", and thus this toy resumed having an entry on this page.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/BCAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Generations'' (Japan)===
[[File:TFGenerations2014 Rejected AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|Denied.]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{bp-a1|'''Alpha Trin''' (Deluxe, <strike>[[2015]]</strike>)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Presumably 2 handguns

: A mock-up of a Japanese "Alpha Trin" toy in the form of a ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Deluxe Class [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Generations|Scourge]] redeco was shown in ''[[Transformers Generations 2014 Volume 1]]'' as one of ten potential exclusives for Vol. 2. In the [[Fan polls#Generations Magazine Exclusive Character Popularity Vote|fan poll]] held to determine which of the ten would be produced, Alpha Trion claimed 28.9% of the votes but ultimately came second place under [[Goshooter#Generations (Japan)|Goshooter]].<ref>[http://millionhero.sblo.jp/article/101898683.html Poll results at Hero-X]</ref> The accompanying text notes that he would have come with a Vector Sigma accessory, presumably to be a golden redeco of [[Eggbot (BW)|''Beast Wars'' Eggbot]] as seen in the volume's manga story, "[[Train Wars]]".
{{GenerationsScourgeMold}}
{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionKreon.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2014)}}</ul>
:*''Collection'': '''4'''
:*''Bag number'': '''***** 33'''
:*''Accessories'': Stand brick, buildable sword/spear-thing
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of the fourth Collection of [[blindpacking|blind-bagged]] [[Kreon]] [[Micro-Changer]]s, ''[[Kre-O]]'' Alpha Trion can be rebuilt from a humanoid to a starship seemingly based on the [[BotCon 2007]] Alpha Trion toy (above). His vehicle-mode bits are rebuilt into a massive spear/sword/thing weapon for robot mode. His jet mode is the only Micro-Changer to fully remove the Kreon's arms in alternate mode.

:He uses the [[Jazz (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Jazz]] helmet... which covers his eyes when pushed all the way down on the noggin.

: This Collection was passed by most larger brick-and-mortar stores, appearing at [[Walgreens]] drug stores first and largely being relegated to similar outlets. Later releases of this wave lost the individual bag codes, meaning you either felt parts through the bag or buy blind.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Autobot/Kre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on ''Kre-O'' Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
[[File:KreO-Toy AlphaTrionClass85.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|There's always that one old guy who hangs out at school long after he graduated...]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1d1|'''Kreon Class of 1985''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)}}</ul>
:*''Set number'': '''B5152'''
:*''Voted'': 800th Year Senior
:*''Accessories'': Longsword

: This version of Kreon Alpha Trion has more intricate, cartoon-accurate detailing, and uses the ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (franchise)|Age of Extinction]]'' [[Megatron (Movie)/toys#Kre-O|Galvatron]] helmet. He also comes with the longsword accessory from the ''Kre-O Dungeons & Dragons'' series for... some reason.

: He also uses the updated 2015-style Kreon body, making almost all of his parts incompatible with previous years' Kreons.

: He was only available in the "[[Kreon Class of '85]]" 30-Kreon box set, a [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2015 [[exclusive]], also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] following the convention.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Autobot/SDCCKre-OAlphaTrion/alphatrion.htm More information on Class of '85 Alpha Trion at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Legends''===
[[File:Legendstoy-LG14-Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|So I'm basically Optimus Prime's brother ''and'' father figure?]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Ultra Magnus''' (Leader, [[2015]])}}</ul>
:*''ID number'': '''LG-14'''
:*''Release date'': [[September 9]], 2015

: The ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' release of ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Leader Class [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#Generations|Ultra Magnus]] includes a small Alpha Trion figure, which is a redeco of the [[Minimus Ambus#Generations|Minimus Ambus]] figure (as Minimus does not appear in any Japanese-original fiction). He transforms into a [[Popular Cybertronian vehicle alternate modes#Hovercar|Cybertronian hovercar]], which can tab onto three grooves on the lower level of Magnus's trailer. In robot mode, Alpha Trion can sit inside Ultra Magnus's robot mode torso, "wearing" the Magnus head like a helmet.
{{-}}

===''Titans Return''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Titans-Return-Voyager-Alpha-Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Destined to be repurposed as [[Cheetor (BW)#Wings Universe|Alpha Trizer]].]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Autobot Sovereign & Alpha Trion''' (Voyager Class, 2016)}}</ul>
:*''Accessories:'' Sword, [[Sovereign#Generations|Sovereign]] Titan Master, Gun
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)|[[Emiliano Santalucia]] (concept artist), [[Marcelo Matere]] (packaging artist)}}

:''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' Alpha Trion transforms from a robot to lion (in homage to his cancelled [[BotCon 2001]] toy) to spaceship. His head transforms into the [[Titan Master]] [[Sovereign]], although his neck socket is compatible with any other Titan Master figure. Both his alternate modes are references to Alpha Trion's previous BotCon toys. He comes with a gun that Sovereign can ride in spaceship mode. As with other ''Titans Return'' Voyager figures, pressing in his chest crystal makes his head adornments spring up to "bulk up" his head. In Canada and Australia, Alpha Trion along with his wavemate [[Astrotrain (G1)/toys#Titans Return|Astrotrain]] were prominent shelfwarmers, while finding Alpha Trion anywhere in the US was a great deal more difficult.

: The Hasbro Asia exclusive giveaway sticker sheet can be used to enhance the figure's details.<ref>https://news.tfw2005.com/2016/09/23/hasbro-asia-titans-return-stickers-wave-2-325179</ref>

: This toy was [[Repurposing|repurposed]] as a body for ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Alpha Trion (SG)|Alpha Trion]]. This mold was retooled into ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' [[Lio Convoy#Legends|Leo Prime]] and ''extensively'' retooled into ''Titans Return'' [[Broadside (G1)#Titans Return|Broadside]] and [[Tidal Wave (G1)#Titans Return|Tidal Wave]]. The sword was redecoed into ''Legends'' [[Magna Convoy]]'s [[Matrix Sword]] and ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Nemesis Prime]]'s Ancient Sword.
{{-}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-POTP-Prime-Master-Alpha-Trion-with-Landmine.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|''Legends'', ''Titans Return'', ''Power of the Primes''. The trilogy is complete!]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''Alpha Trion''' (Prime Master, [[2018]])}}</ul>
:*''TakaraTomy ID number:'' '''PP-32'''
:*''TakaraTomy release date'': [[October 27]], 2018
:*''Accessories:'' Landmine decoy armor, cannon
{{toydesigner|[[John Warden]] (Hasbro)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Alpha Trion is a [[Prime Master]] with [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] decoy armor, visually based on the original [[Pretender]]'s shell. Alpha Trion/Landmine is a [[retool]] of [[Vector Prime#Power of the Primes|Vector Prime]]/[[Metalhawk (G1)#Power of the Primes|Metalhawk]], with a new [[Prime Master]] sigil and decoy armor front.

:This toy has identical features to the other Prime Masters in the line. The decoy armor has a weapon piece which can fold out to create a weapon mode, or detach and be held in the armor's 3 mm-compatible hand. The [[Titan Master]]-like robot can store inside the decoy armor or ride [[Size class|Legends Class]] figures in vehicle mode, and is fully compatible with toys from the previous ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' line. The "Power Swap" gimmick means its [[spark]] form can plug onto any decoy armor's weapon form (which has a [[5 mm post]] to be held by larger figures), Deluxe Class figures' chest armor, Voyager Class figures' bucklers, Leader Class figures' [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix]] (in place of their Matrix core), [[combiner]]s' torsos (in place of their [[Enigma of Combination]]), or the [[Scepter of Sparks]]. With the power of [[you]]r imagination, this bestows the Prime Master's [[Prime Master/Combinations|unique power]] on the larger figure.

:Quality control on the Landmine armor varies: many units' arm holes are slightly too small, warping the connector joints in-package and making the arms pop off when posing. Copies with normal-sized holes can be identified by viewing the package sideways to see whether the joints are warped. There have also been some reports of copies with just one flawed arm.
{{-}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:Legacy-A-Hero-Is-Born-Alpha-Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"Please, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#HasbroPulse|my son]], he is very sick..."]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-a1|'''A Hero is Born''' (2-pack, 2022) }}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Rifle, [[Vector Sigma#Legacy|Vector Sigma]], [[Key to Vector Sigma#Legacy|Key to Vector Sigma]], stand
{{toydesigner|[[Evan Brooks]] (Hasbro), [[Takio Ejima]] and [[Takashi Kunihiro]] (TakaraTomy)|[[Lenny Panzica]] (initial concept)}}<ref>[https://youtu.be/vuZHDR3ZBd8 Transformers Panel] at [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022]] Day 1 on the [[Hasbro Pulse]] YouTube channel.</ref>

: Revealed at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2022, ''[[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy]]'' Alpha Trion is a hefty [[retool]] of ''[[Studio Series]]'' [[Scourge (G1)/toys#Studio Series|Scourge]], transforming into a Cybertronian hovercraft in 21 steps. This release uses new "wing" pieces in robot mode to resemble his cape from the original animation model; unfortunately, due to clearance issues with his new chest, those pieces do not fold up neatly into the vehicle mode undercarriage, so they just kind of sit there awkwardly and make him tilt forward when placed on a flat surface. Alpha Trion also utilizes the [[5 mm post]]-compatible open-palm hands from ''both'' Scourge and his [[Sweep (G1)#Studio Series|Sweep]] redeco/retool, rather than having either of those molds' asymmetrical open/closed hand arrangements.

: Alpha Trion was only available in the "A Hero Is Born" two-pack with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#Legacy|Orion Pax]], as well as a Vector Sigma accessory and the Key to Vector Sigma. The set went up for pre-order during [[Hasbro Pulse Con 2022|Pulse Con 2022]], and began appearing at stores in Hong Kong shortly afterward.

: [[Taiwan]]ese fans who supported the [[Hasbro Pulse|HasLab]] [[Star Saber (G1)#Legacy|Victory Saber]] project ended up getting the "A Hero Is Born" set instead (along with a full refund) after their Victory Sabers were severely water damaged during shipment and could not be delivered. No, this set is nowhere near as cool. Sorry?<ref>{{citesocial|quote=People in Taiwan that preordered Haslab Victory Saber through Hasbro TW is getting their preorders cancelled because their batch had too much water damage during transport to be rendered acceptable. They're getting a full refund and a free Alpha Trion set to compensate. (2022) https://t.co/h2A26ZDcS0|link=https://twitter.com/TF_Moments/status/1570857553503948800/photo/1|name=Crazy ass moments in Transformers History|site=Twitter|year=2022|month=09|day=16|(defunct=)}}</ref>
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Alpha Trion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|You better believe people were excited for this in 2002.]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2002)
**''Act'': '''8'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

: The first "toy" of Alpha Trion ever made, this three-inch-tall [[plastic|PVC]] figurine was available in "Act 8" of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' line. Like all the figures in the wave, it was available as both a standard full-color figure and a metallic-silver "pewter" version, one of each of which was available in a standard case of twelve [[blindpacking|blindpacked]] figures.

: The pewter version of the figure has a potential problem with connector peg breakage, due to said pegs often getting a layer of pewter paint before being forced into a socket, leading to sticking and tearing. Care should be used when moving or removing the arms; shaving down the socket interior with a thin hobby knife is usually sufficient to fix the issue.

: Additionally, the pewter version of Alpha Trion came packaged with the left leg of the [[Scorponok (G1)#Super Collection Figure|Scorponok]] collectible "build-a-figure".

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/AlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on ''Super Collection Figure'' Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Cybertron/PewterAlphaTrin/alphatrin.htm More information on pewter Alpha Trin at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''EX Gōkin''===
[[File:EX Gokin Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|You'd be scolding young 'bots too if you had a pole in your aft...]]
*'''Alpha Trin''' (2014)
**''Accessories:'' Two fists, two open hands, two gripping hands, right pointing hand, A-3 head, two A-3 shoulders, display stand

:Produced by [[Art Storm]] as part of their ''[[EX Gōkin]]'' line, this Alpha Trion is a 6-inch tall posable figure based on his cartoon [[character model]]. He comes with a plethora of extra hands and has an articulated cape that splits in two pieces for easier posing. Alpha Trion can (sort of) be turned into his younger self, A-3, by use of an alternate head based on his appearance in "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and two smaller, spike-less shoulderpads.

::*''[http://artstorm.co.jp/exgokin_transformersseries_alphatrion.html More information on ''EX Gōkin'' Alpha Trin at Art Storm's official site]''
{{--}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W3AlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage''' (2019)
**'''Wave 3: War for Cybertron: Siege I'''
**''Rarity: '''''RT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T01/T48'''
**''Stars: ''11

: Alpha Trion, Cybertronian Sage is one of forty-eight double-sided character cards available in Wave 3 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], War for Cybertron: Siege I.
{{--}}

===''ReAction''===
*'''Alpha Trion''' (2020)

: Released in the second wave of [[Super7]]'s line of multi-property 3.75-inch "retro" action figures, ''[[ReAction]]'' Alpha Trion is a non-converting 3 3/4-inch action figure based on his appearance in the original cartoon, with 5 points of articulation (swivel neck, shoulders, hips) and holes in his feet for use with some variety of stand. Unlike most releases in this line, he lacks an accessory (but both of his hands are open to enable him to hold one), but he does have a thin vinyl cape which is not removable (at least, not without breaking it).

: As with all releases in the ''ReAction'' toyline, Alpha Trion comes packaged on a small cardback that emulates the nostalgic packaging style of [[Kenner]]'s ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' action figures from the late 1970s to early '80s.

{{-}}

===''Transformers Character Card''===
[[File:Transformers Character Card Matrix and Alpha Trion.jpg|upright=1|thumb]]
*'''Alpha Trin & Convoy Set''' ([[April 22]], [[2023]])
**''ID number:'' '''49 & 50'''

:Released as part of the seventh wave of the [[e-HOBBY]] exclusive ''[[Transformers Character Card]]'' series, this pair of holographic trading cards depict super-deformed art of "Alpha Trin" and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] touting the [[Matrix of Leadership]] along with [[bio|character profiles]] and [[Tech Spec|tech specs]].
::*''[[Source:Transformers Character Card#49|Translation of Alpha Trion's Transformers Character Card]]''
{{-}}

===Jada Toys===
*'''Transformers Series 3 18-pack''' (4 cm Die Cast Figure Multipack, 2023)
:Released by [[Jada Toys]], ''Nano Metalfigs'' Alpha Trion is an incredibly small die-cast figurine molded doing an action pose. He has a little base attached to his feet for balancing reasons.

:He comes in an impressive multipack with [[Jada Toys#Nano Metalfigs|seventeen other figurines]].

{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:Alpha_Trion_through_the_epochs.jpg|thumb|Once you go white, you'll never, er... be right?]]
* Alpha Trion is one of the very few Cybertronians to show signs of aging and [[Facial hair|hair growth]].
* According to a timeline in the January 1987 issue of ''[[Comic Bom Bom]]'', A-3 was the first successful robot by Vector Sigma, [[A-1 (G1)|A-1]] and [[A-2]] being failures. However, the presence of Cybertronians within the Matrix of Leadership older than Alpha Trion (as seen in "[[The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2|The Return of Optimus Prime]]") makes the actual [[canon]]icity of this questionable.
* Alpha Trion may be named after the {{w|Triple-Alpha Process}}, the method through which carbon is created, which in turn is the reason (human) life came to be. Given that Alpha Trion essentially "created" Optimus Prime, who in turn formed the Autobots, this is actually quite fitting.
[[File:ImAlphaTrionsHovercraftMode.jpg|thumb|"I'm Alpha Trion's hover-craft mode!"]]
* Alpha Trion had a hover-craft [[alternate mode]] designed for his appearance in ''[[The Transformers: Ironhide]]'', but ultimately didn't end up transforming in that mini-series. The vehicle mode was first revealed in the trade paperback's extras, and would eventually be used in-continuity as part of a flashback sequence in "[[Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb]]" and in the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]]'' episode "[[Megatron Origins]]".

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Alpha Trin''' (アルファートリン ''Arufā Torin''), '''Alpha Trion''' (アルファトライオン ''Arufa Toraion'')
*''Hebrew:'' '''Alpha Trion''' (אלפא טריון, "Alpha Trion")
*''Hungarian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Indonesian:'' '''Alfa Trion'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Alpha Tellion''' (Taiwan, 阿法特利昂 ''Āfǎ Tèlìáng''), '''Tài Shīfù''' (China, 钛师傅, "Master Titanium")

==References==
{{Reflist}}

{{Thirteen}}

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Beast Machines Autobots]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Autobots]]
[[Category:Ghosts]]
[[Category:Go! Go! Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Kre-O Autobots]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Legacy Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Mini-Cons]]
[[Category:Prime Masters]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Titans Return Autobots]]
[[Category:Transformers Character Card]]
[[Category:Transformers Roleplaying Game Autobots]]
[[Category:Triple Changers]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege characters]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Autobots]]

Esmeral (G1)

2024-11-17T20:07:59Z

TFEarthConquest:

{{factions|decepticon}}
{{disambig2|the <s>evil</s> married Decepticon|her single mirrorverse counterpart|Esmeral (SG)}}
:''Esmeral is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (franchise)|Victory]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:Esmeral-manga.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|And afterwards, when the Autobots were lured into a false sense of security by those teary eyes, the Decepticons, now easily with five times as many, launched a devastating attack on their enemies and won the Victory war. [[Fanon|Pretty please?]]]]
'''Esmeral''' (エスメラル ''Esumeraru'') is the wife of the Decepticon leader [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]. She presumably has a similar [[alternate mode]], as her robot mode bears more than a passing resemblance to her husband's.

==Fiction==
===''Victory'' comic===
Defeated at the end of the long conflict, the Decepticons begged the Autobots not to destroy their [[Planet-Destroying Fortress|Giant Fortress Base]]. Because the Autobots were little convinced by that alone, Deathsaurus opened a door to the top of the fortress, revealing a large crowd of Decepticon civilians. Among them was Esmeral, who stepped forward to greet her husband and explained to the Autobots that the fortress was home to all the Decepticon families, whom the Decepticon warriors only sought to protect. Peace was subsequently made between the two factions. {{storylink|The Grand Victory War}}

[[Category:Comic-only Decepticons]]
[[Category:Female Transformers]]
[[Category:Japanese-original Transformers]]
[[Category:Victory Decepticons]]

==Notes==
In a post regarding the HasLab Deathsaurus campaign, a question was asked regarding if Esmeral was ever considered to be one of the milestones for the project. Designer Evan Brooks responded by saying that Hasbro and Takara don't actually own the rights to Esmeral or the rest of the Victory manga original characters.

Esmeral (G1)

2024-11-17T20:06:25Z

TFEarthConquest: Added the notes section about HasTak not owning rights. Can't access Instagram to link reference.

Wreckers

2024-11-17T18:56:37Z

TFEarthConquest: /* Transformers: Earth Wars */

{{factions|autobot|wreckers|wreckersidw}}
{{featured}}
{{disambig3|Wreckers}}
[[File:Wreckers symbol.png|thumb|Wreck & Rule.]]
The '''Wreckers''' are a special task force, generally composed of the best and the toughest die-hard fighters around. Its ranks include a veritable who's-who of the obscure; mechs you've never heard much about, mostly because the Wreckers are often called in to fight when the odds of success are slim. Bluntly, they tend to burn through their roster at a frightening rate. The Wreckers are a close-knit group that's more concerned with bursting in, guns-blazing, and doing their Thing, than they are concerned with, say, strategy. Despite their disregard for planning and the bodycount their team mounts, the Wreckers are amazingly successful. If it's a lost cause, the Wreckers will be there, winning the day with sheer guts and determination.

Perhaps the most celebrated leader of the Wreckers is [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], though the memory of his former leader, [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], hangs over his head. The team also often has ties to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], and the [[Maximal]] future will bring leaders such as [[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]] and [[Primal Prime]].

They're associated with Autobots like the [[Deluxe Vehicle]]s and [[Jumpstarter]]s, but when [[Target: 2006|times]] [[Transformers: The Wreckers|get]] [[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|really]] [[Of Masters and Mayhem|desperate]], they'll grab ''anyone'': newly modified Autobots, [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]], squishy [[human]]s, and even former [[Decepticon]]s or the [[Ironfist (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|dying]].

{{bigquote|Never a dull moment when you're a Wrecker.|[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]|[[Stormbringer issue 4|''Stormbringer'' #4]]}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 continuity family===
====Marvel Comics continuity====
=====Marvel ''The Transformers'' comics=====
{{noteukexclusive|The Wreckers}}
[[File:Wreckersoriginallineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|They always smile after a nice massacre.]]
The Wreckers were [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]]'s special ops squad, first being heard from during [[Trannis]]'s dread advances. Their first mission was to assassinate Trannis himself and they succeeded (and that meant [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] took over, whoops). {{storylink|Cybertron: The Middle Years!}}

In [[1986]], the roster of the Wreckers consisted of Impactor (the leader), Roadbuster, Whirl, Twin-Twist, Topspin, and Rack'n'Ruin. They were later joined by Broadside, Sandstorm, and Springer (who became the team's leader after Impactor's death). The team were set to be at the business end of [[Operation: Volcano]], killing ten of the most deadly Decepticons as they converged on a staged conference. Without [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]] around to help, however, they would have been massacred soon after and they came close to backing out, only to decide to do their duty. The Autobot [[Triple Changer]]s were sent in as a replacement.

However, when [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] called off the Decepticons' advance (truth be told, he didn't seem to know or care about it), the Wreckers' plans were also cancelled. As was Impactor's life, as one of the Decepticons, [[Macabre]], had stayed behind to kill [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]], and Impactor took the 'bullet' for him. Impactor named Springer his successor as he lay dying. {{storylink|Target: 2006}}

Later, the team and Ultra Magnus were misled into trying to kill [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]] upon his return to Cybertron. Decepticons had planted misinformation that Prime was in fact a Decepticon made up to ''look'' like Prime. Fortunately for the Wreckers' record, Magnus and Xaaron uncovered the truth before anyone could kill the Autobots' Greatest Leader. {{storylink|Distant Thunder!}} During his stay on Cybertron, Optimus Prime led the Wreckers on a number of fruitful raids on [[Decepticon fuel store]]s. {{storylink|Resurrection!}}

[[File:Technician wreckers legion of the lost.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.95]]
After Optimus Prime returned to Earth, [[Autobase]] in [[Kalis]] was rocked by a huge explosion caused by the venting of an active nuclear reactor. Xaaron told the Wreckers of Megatron's ancient plan to turn Cybertron into a vast mobile battle station and that Autobase was potentially built on top of the engine room. Springer led the Wreckers to try to find the entrance to the sub-terranean facility but they were unable to locate it. Upon their return Autobase was attacked by hoards of undead Transformers, including their former leader, Impactor. Once the Wreckers and Xaaron were imprisoned, [[Flame (Marvel)|Flame]] revealed himself to be behind the explosion, as well as the reanimation of the dead. Though shaken by recent events Springer managed to escape the cell, taking Impactor with him. The current Wrecker leader did enough to reawaken some sense of self in the zombified Impactor before reaching the surface, where he met Ultra Magnus and the [[Sparkabot|Sparkler Mini-Bots]]. Meanwhile, the other Wreckers had escaped and headed for the armory and, aided by a curious and vengeful Impactor, managed to reach the weapons necessary to defeat Flame's undead minions. With [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s assistance, the Wreckers broke through to the main control room, where Xaaron was preparing to sacrifice himself in order to reach the reactor shut down control. Under orders to leave, the Wreckers fought their way past more reanimated corpses, leaving Impactor to save Xaaron twice again, firstly by killing Flame and then entering the radioactive chamber himself to deactivate the reactor. Xaaron made it to safety and gave thanks for the bravest being he had ever met. {{storylink|Legion of the Lost!}} {{storylink|Meltdown!}}

[[File:WreckingHavoc-yourfoe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Sandstorm and Broadside are on good terms with Galvy.]]
In [[1988]] the Wreckers were tasked to bring down [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. Both Xaaron and Springer had concerns about the mission, but deemed it necessary due to the danger posed by the future Decepticon leader. The team transported through an unstable dimensional portal, unwittingly landing in a small mid-western town, to be confronted not only by Galvatron but also his two former lieutenants, [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] and [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]]. Unable to fight all three Decepticons as well as defend the human population, Springer managed to lure Cyclonus and Scourge away. Faced with a choice of allowing Galvatron to escape or aid their leader the Wreckers chose to help Springer. Galvatron was able to escape but the Wreckers vowed to return to finish the job. {{storylink|Wrecking Havoc}}

In an effort to reduce further risk to human life Xaaron sent an [[Advance Surveillance Unit]], consisting of Broadside, Sandstorm, and Inferno, to set up a reconnaissance base. Though their primary mission was to observe and not interfere, the two Wreckers and Inferno could not help but go to the aid of a local town when a [[Firebug (G1)|Firebug]] crash landed nearby and started multiple blazes. {{storylink|Firebug!}}

[[File:Megatron wreckers time wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|The Wreckers look on as Megatron goes Dreamwave on them.]]
The unit tracked Galvatron as he stockpiled equipment and supplies, and discovered his subterranean base. With space and time [[time rift|ripping themselves apart]] due to the future Decepticon's presence, Xaaron sent reinforcements in the shape of a Decepticon [[Decepticon heavy transport|spacecraft]] carrying the rest of the Wreckers and the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]], who had formed a crisis alliance. The two teams made their way to Galvatron's unguarded base and were able to walk straight in. Unfortunately Galvatron had formed his own alliance with [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] (or at least, [[Straxus (G1)|his clone]]) and they attacked the two elite squads, who quickly began to fall beneath the might of the crazed duo. Topspin was one of the first to fall, victim of Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. Cracks soon showed in the alliance as Springer and [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] almost came to blows, blaming each other for the disastrous plan. They were interrupted by Scourge and [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]], who had also allied themselves to Galvatron. Fortunately Springer was able to sow seeds of doubt about the cause of the space/time rift in Scourge's mind, distracting him. Springer then jumped him while Ravage was taken out by Carnivac. The Wreckers leader sounded the retreat and Carnivac reluctantly ordered his Mayhems to do the same.

[[File:TimeWars-frakamm.jpg|thumb|GET OUT OF MY WAY!]]
The teams re-grouped at the Decepticon ship with Galvatron and Megatron hot on their heels. Galvatron announced his arrival by destroying Sandstorm with his [[Particle cannon]]. An enraged Roadbuster fetched an experimental [[Pathblaster]] and managed to blow half of Galvatron's face off. However the weapon was unstable and exploded, killing Roadbuster before he could use it again. Galvatron was only further madenned by his injury, ripping off Twin Twist's head and blasting Rack'n'Ruin. The remaining Wreckers were only saved by the arrival of reinforcements of Autobots and Decepticons from both the future and present day. With most of their members offline and the rest injured, the Wreckers did not play any further part in the battle. {{storylink|Time Wars}}

After the Time Wars, the few survivors (Springer, Broadside and Inferno) joined with other "outsiders"—both Autobot and Decepticon. The Decepticon ship they had used to reach Earth was stolen by Megatron and they were seemingly abandoned by High Command. With these new circumstances they ceased to use the Wreckers title and formed part of the (aptly named) [[Survivors]]. {{storylink|Survivors!}}
{{-}}

======Marvel UK future timelines======
[[File:Rodimus technobots wreckers peace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66||...have granted me the right to join two Cybertronians in holy matrimony. You sure about your best man Magnus?]]
In an alternate future of [[2510]], the Wreckers killed the last Decepticon in battle, signifying the end of the [[Great War (G1)|war]]. Upon learning this news, [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]] called together his warriors at Autobase to announce that he was stepping down as Autobot leader and selected Springer as his replacement. [[Triton]], a Decepticon double agent who had infiltrated the ranks of the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]], sought to sow dissent in the Autobot ranks and questioned Rodimus's choice, suggesting that Ultra Magnus would make a better leader.

The resulting argument quickly escalated when [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]] shot Roadbuster, blowing his head clean off. Sandstorm retaliated by killing Triton and soon the Autobots had split into factions fighting a whole new war, to Rodimus Prime's great despair. {{storylink|Peace}}
{{-}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]
*[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (first leader)
*[[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]]
*[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]
*[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (second leader)
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}

*Both Roadbuster and Whirl were absent during the Flame incident and initial Galvatron mission. Roadbuster reappears and dies during the Time Wars but Whirl is never seen again. As Springer states that the rest of the Wreckers are with him on the Decepticon heavy transport ship, this may indicate that Whirl either left the Wreckers or was killed in action.
*Dialogue in "[[Firebug!]]" suggests Inferno was not a Wrecker at this point. Later, in "[[Survivors!]]" and an [[Transformers Annual 1991|annual bio]], he was considered an ex-Wrecker. There is no indication of when he joined, most likely prior to "[[Time Wars]]".
*Rack'n'Ruin and Inferno are missing from the alternate future roster in "[[Peace]]".

=====''Regeneration One''=====
{{NoteRG1}}
[[File:Wreckers loose ends.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8| [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]? What Great War? Sorry, must have missed the call to arms. Did you make a mess?]]
Twenty-one years after the battle of [[Klo]], Springer led a team of soldiers known as the Wreckers. Loosely under the jurisdiction of [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]], the Wreckers were apparently separate from the standard [[Cybertronian Civil Defense]] rank-and-file. They stopped a terrorist act on Cybertron and later accompanied [[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] to visit planets affected by the Great War. On their first stop, Earth, they discovered it had been devastated some time ago. Before they had chance to fully take in the devastation their ship was promptly blown out of the sky by Megatron. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 1}}

[[File:Wreckers loose ends 2.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6]]
The unit managed to bail out of the ship in escape pods, crash landing on Earth. Somewhat battered, the Wreckers had little chance to fully take stock before Whirl delivered the news that reanimated Decepticons were on their way. Heading out Springer decided to try to contact Cybertron and aid the safe approach of reinforcements. Leaving the injured at a safe distance the remaining Wreckers attempted to reach the [[Deep Space Network]] at [[Goldstone]]. Sandstorm, Roadbuster and Leadfoot tried to keep the zombie Decepticons distracted while Kup, Springer and Whirl made a dash for the transmitter. The former trio were not totally successful so Kup turned to assist to allow his teammates to send the message. Unfortunately he was taken by surprise by [[Skywarp (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Skywarp]], knocked unconscious and quickly taken to Megatron. Meanwhile, a group of human survivors stumbled across Rack'n'Ruin and the injured Wreckers. Assuming the worst the humans attempted to flee, Rack'n'Ruin tried to go after them but was held off by [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Circuit Smasher]] {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 2}}

Though initially distrustful, Circuit Smasher eventually allied himself with the Wreckers and explained how human interference with the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] had led to the reactivation of Megatron. Somehow the Decepticon leader managed to turn the planet's defenses on itself, reactivated his fallen warriors and in a matter of hours had all but wiped out the Earth. Circuit Smasher took the Wreckers to meet [[G.B. Blackrock]], who told them that the Ark should be their key target as it formed the basis of Megatron's technology and defensive capabilities. However, before they could make any specific plans their meeting was interrupted by a call from Megatron, who informed them that he had given Kup [[Scraplet]]s. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 3}}

[[File:Wreckers loose ends 4.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Springer once again split the Wreckers. While he, Sandstorm and Whirl went to meet Megatron the remaining bots and their human allies would assault the Ark. Both teams took heavy fire, Springer's squad were soon grounded by weight of numbers and the others got past the first wave of Ark defenses only to face a troupe of [[Guardian (Marvel)|Guardian Units]]. Megatron was about to execute Springer when Optimus Prime arrived with reinforcements, the distraction allowing the zombie Starscream to tell Kup to kill [[Ratchet (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ratchet]]. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 4}}

Prime demanded the Megatron let Springer go. However the Decepticon leader merely goaded his nemesis by glibly blasting Springer's head off at point blank range. Blinded with rage Prime attacked, leading Megatron to reveal that he had programmed [[Aunty|Auntie]], the Ark's computer, to launch every missile on the planet once their battle was done. At the Ark the Wreckers kept the Guardians busy so that Circuit Smasher could deal with Auntie. Kup managed to arm himself and make his way to Megatron's [[battle sled]] to kill Ratchet and with him Megatron, with whom the medic had become fused both in body and mind. Considering it a mercy killing Kup shot Ratchet, giving Prime the chance he needed to rip out Megatron's [[Spark]]. Fortunately by this time Circuit Smasher had deactivated Auntie and the planet was saved from further destruction. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 5}}

[[File:Kup fang destiny.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.9]]
In addition to Springer's death, [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and [[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]] were left in critical condition because of their injuries. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part One}} After returning to Cybertron, {{storylink| Natural Selection, Part Five}} the Wreckers acted as a security force for [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Hot Rod]]. When a group of Neo-Decepticons led by [[Fang]] blockaded the bridge [[Auto-artery RG1]], Kup led the Wreckers to detain them. When Kup started to come to blows with Fang, Roadbuster pulled him aside, suggesting they do things the way Springer would have, going so far as suggesting that Kup ''himself'' was making things worse by giving the populace something to hate. As they argued, two Cybertronians tried to sneak past the blockade, attacking Fang, causing a fight to break out. {{storylink| Destiny, Part Two}}

[[File:Wreckers destiny.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]
The Wreckers' next foray into action came in the form of a raid. Remotely coordinated by Ultra Magnus, they raided [[Fort Scyk]] in order to apprehend [[Soundwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Soundwave]] and his Neo-Decepticons. However, having anticipated this, the Decepticons had abandoned the place and wired it to explode. Unsurprisingly, all of the Wreckers survived virtually unscathed, and Kup proceeded to report in to Magnus on the situation. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Three}}

When [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] launched an all out attack on Cybertron, Kup tried to convince [[Prowl (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Prowl]] to let the Wreckers take the front lines. Prowl refused, saying that the Wreckers needed to be applied strategically, he just didn't know ''where''. This frustrated Kup. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Four}}

The Wreckers were eventually dispatched aboard a ship to infiltrate Bludgeon's base of operations, the [[Warworld]]. However Bludgeon was fully aware of their presence, slaughtering them with his mastery of [[Metallikato]]. As the Wreckers tried to stand against him, Kup escaped to destroy the reservoir of Matrix energy powering the Warworld, but Bludgeon, having swiftly defeated all of the other Wreckers, pursued him. After catching him, Bludgeon proceeded to beat Kup to within an inch of his life, and the old-timer was only saved by the arrival of the newly christened [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. As the new Prime soundly defeated Bludgeon and disabled the ship, Kup, along with his fellow Wreckers and Rodimus fled the ship as it was destroyed. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Five}}

[[File:Wreckers war to end all wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.8]]
When a more successful attack against the Autobots was launched by [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], and Rodimus, along with a good number of the Autobot's forces were captured, the Wreckers (with Broadside now fully recovered from his wounds on Earth) carried on the fight on their own, single-handedly fending off thousands of [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronians]] while also desabalizing Jhiaxus's [[Hub (G2)|Hub Network]]. All while looking totally badass. When Rodimus and the others managed to free themselves, Autobot and Wrecker alike fled from the Hub as it began to disintegrate. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 4}}

Returning to Cybertron, the Autobots found the planet abandoned. Or so it seemed, as they were suddenly attacked by [[Shadow-leech]]es. As the Autobots held off the monsters, Perceptor came to the horrifying realisation that the Shadow-leeches were actually Cybertron's missing inhabitants, having been transformed by the [[Dark Matrix|Matrix's dark energy]]. As the Autobots' forces split up to cover multiple fronts, the Wreckers travelled to Earth to recruit their human allies. Upon successfully recruiting the humans, the Wreckers went to Nebulos, where they dispatched a rampaging [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]], who had been possessed by the corrupted Matrix entity. Elsewhere, Rodimus defeated the Dark Matrix entity by sealing off their own universe from the rest of the multiverse, disconnecting them from Primus for good, causing the entity to die. However, without a connection to Primus, the Transformers' lifespans became decidedly finite, and over the eons all of the remaining Autobots and Decepticons, including the Wreckers, eventually died out from old age. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 5}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]
*[[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] (second leader)
*[[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]]
*[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]
*[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (first leader)
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}

=====''Transformers '84''=====
[[File:Wreckers secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.57]]
When [[Punch (G1)|Punch]] had brought the news that [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] sought to reactivate [[Project Dreadnought]], he requested a dedicated wrecking crew from Ultra Magnus. Walking in at roughly the same time, Impactor and Roadbuster had a wave of inspiration. Rallying together some heavy-hitters, Impactor later retrieved Punch and introduced him to the Wreckers. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 3|Secrets & Lies #3}}

[[File:Wreckers punch terrorcons secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7]]
For their first mission as a team, the Wreckers deployed to the nerve centre of Project Dreadnought and split up to their designated holding positions until Impactor could think of an appropriate signal. When they encountered the [[combiner]] [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]], left by Straxus to defend the site, he coined the phrase "Wreckers! ''um''... wreck... ...and rule!" and the team went to work with Topspin and Twin Twist heading underground while the others battled the gestalt. After Rack'n'Ruin managed to take Abominus down with a [[Hammer (weapon)|hammer]] to the face, Impactor and the others piled into battle with the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] and [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] managed to bite off Impactor's hand while he was holding a [[harpoon]] gun, which went badly for Sinnertwin. This bought the Jumpstarters enough time to lay enough explosives to demolish the control centre, and the Wreckers returned to base victorious. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 4|Secrets & Lies #4}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]
*[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}

====3H comics====
[[File:Wreckers3hlineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Now taking applications for: [[Cyclonus (G1)|Traitors]], [[Fractyl|Wimps]], and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|People Who Shouldn't Be Here]].]]
{{quote|'''Wreck and Rule!''' The battle cry has echoed down through the centuries... They were an elite group of AUTOBOT warriors during the Great War. Now they are a balance of MAXIMAL and PREDACON, AUTOBOT and DECEPTICON, gathered together as their race's last great hope for survival. In a universe torn asunder by chaos and fire, they are the chosen few who will stand against an evil that threatens to consume all things. They are the light amidst a growing darkness. They are '''The Wreckers.'''|Wreckers packaging blurb|[[BotCon 2001]] and [[BotCon 2002|2002]] toys.|noquote=true}}

After the end of the war, the [[Maximal High Council]] called the Wreckers back into service to protect the fragile peace that existed between [[Maximal]] and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]]. They were originally stationed in Delta Three within the [[Wrecker Command Base]], but would eventually relocate to Delta Five {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} on the far side of Cybertron. {{storylink|Departure}} The war veteran and gifted engineer Apelinq was assigned to be a squad commander of this new iteration of the legendary Autobot strike force, and several of his former comrades were also drafted. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]] was also added to the ranks of the Wreckers in a commanding role. {{storylink|Disclosure|Apelinq's extended profile}} By 316 A.U., there were at least seven Wrecker Squadrons. {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}}

All but Rodimus and Apelinq were lost to [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon forces]] and its [[transformation virus]]; by the time the foe was identified, many of the Wreckers had already fallen and Rodimus took the remainders bar Apelinq in a last-ditch strike in 316.247 AU. Rodimus' Matrix history left him immune to the virus and meant Apelinq could develop an inoculant, and meant they had a chance to find and save any survivors. Luckily, their depleted ranks were filled when a new horde of battle-hardened survivors—some brought by [[Primal Prime]] from the time-lost [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]]—surfaced in [[Polyhex]]. Around this time is when the team relocated from Delta Three to Delta Five, and Prime himself took command after an incident that sent Apelinq back in time. {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} Apelinq eventually made it back via his own devices. In this troubled time, [[Decepticon]]s and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] were also accepted into their ranks, including the Great War veterans [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]. {{storylink|Departure}}

[[Cryotek (RID)|Cryotek]] and the [[Quintesson]]s plotted to exploit this: the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] [[shell program]] was placed on [[Vector Sigma]], allowing them to give false commands to any survivors and have Cybertron turned [[technorganic]], easier to conquer. Cyclonus was secretly working for them! {{storylink|Betrayal}} {{storylink|Disclosure}} (The technorganic shift was, in fact, part of [[Primus]]'s plan) {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} The Wreckers were part of the many groups conned, sent off on a quest that would require fighting their way through the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]] guards at [[Shuttle Complex Ohm]]. A staggered batch of reinforcements turned a likely trap into victory {{storylink|Departure}} to the annoyance of the enemy conspirators, but Cyclonus successfully bombed their ship in secret to impair them.

Five Wreckers died because of [[Packrat]] cowardly sacrificing them. This contributed to growing tension in the team. They made it to [[Akalo|Archa Nine]], home of the [[Divine Light]] power source that Cryotek coveted, and the team were so focused on Packrat that they didn't see Cyclonus coming! With the power source gone, the Wreckers could pretty much just mope. {{storylink|Betrayal}} Primal Prime took them on another quest, thinking he had an Oracle vision, and they found themselves on a planet where the Quintesson [[Al-badur]] lived in exile. There, they learned of the true threat (and that ''Vector Sigma'' had sent Prime the message) and they'd need to get the hell back to Cybertron! {{storylink|Disclosure}}

[[File:Chromutated.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|"We don't ''like'' out-of-towners!" "WE PUNCH WHAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND!!"]]
The Wreckers made it back in time to find the newly technorganic planet was facing an all-out Quintesson invasion and they joined the army in fighting back. They took the fight to Cryotek, who successfully used the Divine Light to gain access to Primus' power; luckily, his first act of demigodhood was to accidentally merge Apelinq and Primal Prime into [[Sentinel Maximus]]! {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}} While the two leaders threw down, the rest of the Wreckers fought Cyclonus, [[Chro]], and the Sharkticons. Mid-battle, [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] and Skywarp went [[Cauldron|missing]] but the Wreckers still triumphed over these other foes. In the end, Cryotek was defeated by forcing him into an extradimensional portal and the Divine Light's divine power was drained off. The cost was Rodimus' life and Sentinel Maximus being lost along with Cryotek.

The battle over, they mourned their lost comrades and went their separate ways in a new, peacetime Cybertron. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} (Well, ''briefly'' peacetime) {{storylink|Transformers: Universe (comic)|Universe}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]] (first leader, later second-in-command)
*[[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]]
*[[CatSCAN]]
*[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] (former member/traitor)
*[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]
*[[Dillo]]
*[[Fractyl]]
*[[Mol]]
*[[Packrat]]
*[[Primal Prime]] (second leader)
*[[Ramulus]]
*[[Rav (BM)|Rav]]
*[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]]
*[[Rotorbolt (Universe)|Rotorbolt]]
*[[Sentinel Maximus]] (merged form of Apelinq and Primal Prime)
*[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]
*[[Sonar (BW)|Sonar]]
*[[Spittor (BW)|Spittor]]
*[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]
*[[Tigatron]]
}}
{{-}}

====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====
[[File:Wreckersdw.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|The Wreckers: Featuring Ultra Magnus' Crotch.]]
The Wreckers split from the Autobot forces after the disappearance of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] in a [[space bridge]] explosion. Led by Springer, they clashed with [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]]'s [[Ultracon]]s in the [[Tagan Heights]] for a time {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages}} before reuniting with the Autobots and the [[Lightning Strike Coalition]] immediately prior to the Age of Internment. {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Age of Wrath|War Within: The Age of Wrath}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]
*[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (leader)
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}

Later on, during Shockwave's reign on Cybertron, the Wreckers whittled down to small but elite task force of Autobots dedicated to keeping the peace wherever (and however) necessary. The [[Triple Changer]]s left the group and Ultra Magnus stepped in to lead.

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*Roadbuster
*Topspin
*Twin Twist
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)
*Whirl
}}

When the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] were released from imprisonment in Cybertron's [[Detention Banks]], the Wreckers responded in kind. This, however, was after [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] had already wiped out the [[Omnibot (G1)|Omnibots]] and defeated [[Defensor (G1)|Defensor]]. In the battle, both Whirl and Roadbuster were apparently killed before Ultra Magnus took charge and brought Menasor down. {{storylink|War and Peace}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
{{quote|What do you '''mean''', it's a lost cause? Of '''course''' it's a lost cause. That's why we're '''here!'''|[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]], [[Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2]]}}

{{quote|They give the Autobots something to ''believe in!'' And it's all thanks to [[Ironfist (G1)|you]]. Without Fisitron and his datalogs, the Wreckers would be nothing more than a bunch of ''thugs with a death wish.''|[[Verity Carlo]], "[[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5]]}}

[[File:Wreckersstormbringer.jpg|left|upright=1.7|thumb|The IDW Wreckers are so hardcore they don't even need a spaceship. Except for when they [[Xantium (G1)|do]].]]
The Wreckers are the Autobots who get called in when the odds of success are non-existent, but the job needs to be done anyway. The origin of the group is unknown, and for the longest time their existence was no more than a rumor, even among the ranks of their fellow Autobots. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Because of the extreme nature of their missions, the Wreckers have a low survival rate, around 38% to 42%, depending on who you ask. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} All of the founding members have died (with one [[Valve|deliberately ignored exception]]), and the group's roster has gone through over eighteen iterations. Although every active member isn't always present for every mission, Springer once said Wreckers only leave the group ''for good'' in three ways: death, dementia, or dishonorable discharge. In fact, the one rule this "No Rules" team abides by is The Veto: any Wrecker can remove any other Wrecker from the roster at any time. {{storylink|Interiors}}

The Wreckers' exploits have been lionized in the eyes of the rank and file by their unofficial biographer, "[[Ironfist (G1)|Fisitron]]", and his ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' datalogs. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Before his death, Fisitron produced 331 datalog adventures for his heroes, cobbled together from data requests, mission reports and [[Autopedia]] bios about the Wreckers and their history. Many Autobots in the fleet subscribed to Fisitron's datalogs. They were an inspiration to the Autobots, heroes of daring exploits who never leave each other behind and always save the day... or so ''Wreckers: Declassified'' and the official line would tell them. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} {{storylink|Bullets}} In reality, the ''Declassifieds'' were full of embellishments and were quite sanitised. The dirtier the war got, the dirtier the Wreckers got, and they were always ''particularly'' dirty. Before they'd gone public, at least one Decepticon was caught wandering around, gibbering about Impactor's harpoons, before killing himself. {{storylink|Zero Point}}

Among the many adventures chronicled by Fisitron were the Wreckers' battles with the [[Anguished]], an event involving Broadside and some [[Rada Mor|psychic explosives]], {{storylink|Bullets}} Impactor rescuing Xaaron from the [[Sonic Canyons]] (at which point he coined the battle cry of "Wreck and rule!", while flying a [[sky-sled]] into a drilling platform) {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and the [[Siege of T'Muk]]. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Another episode involved Impactor rescuing hostages on the verge of an event horizon. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}

[[File:RulesofDisengagement-BlackShadowvsWreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|right|Oh, and remember when Black Shadow blasted us all new ones? Good times.]]
They were founded by [[Threnody]] {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} and [[Valve]] was part of his first squad. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The earliest version we've seen in action was the 11th iteration, led by Crest and consisting of Hyperion, Impactor, Valve, Piston, Rack, and at least one more member. They battled the Warriors Elite genocide specialist named [[Black Shadow (G1)|Black Shadow]], and three Wreckers died in combat, including their leader Crest and Piston. {{storylink|Rules of Disengagement (issue)|Rules of Disengagement}} Hyperion, a known former Wreckers leader, likely succeeded Crest as commander.

The roster continued to evolve, as Hyperion stepped down for reasons unknown, and Impactor went on to become the team's longest serving member and leader. The last surviving founding member, Valve, abandoned the Autobot cause and joined up with the Decepticons. He was responsible for founding and leading the Wreckers' opposite number, [[Squadron X]]. His betrayal cut so deep that the Wreckers collectively refuse to acknowledge his history with the group. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The reason for Valve's betrayal hasn't been explained, although considering that around this time the Wreckers recruited Whirl (a loose cannon indirectly responsible for the death of Valve's brothers, [[Wheelarch]] and [[Springarm]]), one could make an educated guess.

[[File:RequiemoftheWreckers WreckersWelcome.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|WELCOME TO DIE!]]
Following the battle of [[Sherma Bridge]] and after the public became aware of the Wreckers' existence, Impactor recruited Springer into the 17th iteration of the team. {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Requiem of the Wreckers}} Springer rose quickly in the ranks, becoming Impactor's first officer and nicknamed "his little green circuit booster" after his knack for rallying the team's spirits. Unfortunately, the horrors of war began to weigh on Springer, as he saw the Wreckers straying further and further from the [[Autobot Code]]. He ignored the "slips" for some time, then began telling himself at least he was making sure (increasingly fewer) Decepticons were still alive in incredible pain or buried rather than being dead, and then he began saying that at least it wasn't ''him'' brutalising prisoners; but as Impactor's hatred of Squadron X became more bittered and obsessive, Springer's resolve began to shake. A watching Prowl began waiting hundreds of years for an excuse to bring them in. And eventually, the Wreckers began to outright ignore threats, even as grim as the [[Black Epoch]] and the ongoing [[Simanzi Massacre]], so they could continue tracking Squadron X. {{storylink|Zero Point}}

After Springer was recruited, another Wrecker named Blocker succumbed to dementia and began cannibalizing his best friend. He was removed from the roster and replaced by Sandstorm. {{storylink|Zero Point}}

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4-triumphoverevil.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.8|TEAM WIPE!]]
Twenty years before the [[Surge (event)|Surge]], the vendetta between Impactor and Squadron X came to an end on the neutral planet of [[Pova]]. The roster by this time included Springer, Roadbuster, Sandstorm, Whirl, Broadside, and the now conjoined Rack'n'Ruin. After being pursued across nine star systems, Squadron X was caught off-guard refueling their ship, the ''[[Pale Fire]]''. A battle ensued, and Impactor made the winning move by shooting through trapped Springer's back, taking the Squadron by surprise. The entire roster was captured and fitted with inhibitor claws by the Wreckers. Impactor proudly called in his catch to [[Autobot High Command]], but [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] told him the unthinkable: they had to let Squadron X go. A non-interference pact made with the Povans made the capture illegal and a potential political nightmare, so Prowl ordered Impactor to release the Decepticons. Instead, Impactor took Roadbuster's gun and put himself in a room with the prisoners, executing each of them one at a time with a bullet through the brain module. Springer was nearly crippled by injuries he suffered during the fight, but as he dragged himself over to room, he saw Impactor standing over the bodies. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}

Springer reported his superior officer to High Command, and Impactor was arrested under the [[Tyrest Accord]] for violating the Autobot Code and killing helpless prisoners. At the [[Aequitas]] trials, Springer's testimony sank any chances Impactor had of release, and he was sentenced to [[Garrus-9]]. A cover story was released that Impactor had been locked away for selling circuit boosters to the [[Chomskian]]s. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}

[[File:Animals-RadarGatoraider.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|left|"FINISH HIM!"]]
Springer became the Wrecker leader after Impactor's arrest. He'd been asked to by the other Wreckers and thought that he could correct their increasingly immoral course; what he didn't know was that the other members were trying to cover up their collusion with Impactor's murders. They lavished praise on Springer in the hopes that he wouldn't demand they be prosecuted, too, and the hoodwinked Springer gave such a clear, unambiguous witness statement to the guilt-reading [[Aequitas]] that none of the others had to be plugged in to give an account. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Some time after Springer took command, Rack'n'Ruin died. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} Despite the change in leadership, the Wreckers continued to operate in a brutal capacity, maintaining their fearsome reputation among Decepticons. In a particularly-violent raid on a squad led by [[Krok (G1)|Krok]], Roadbuster- high on [[Syk]], tore out [[Radar]]'s spine and made him ''eat it''. {{storylink|Animals}}

Decades later, the Wreckers were assigned to [[Varas Centralus]] after the Decepticon [[Infiltration protocol|infiltration unit]] on that planet went to [[Phase Sixer|Phase Six]]. They were pulled out and sent back to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] at the order of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] when the Autobot leader suspected that [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] might have been behind the disappearance of the [[Calabi-Yau]]. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2}} The Wreckers arrived just in time to save [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] and [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]]. They then proceeded to take [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]]'s team apart without breaking a sweat. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 3|Stormbringer #3}} Thunderwing was ''slightly'' more challenging, but the Wreckers suffered no apparent casualties. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 4|Stormbringer #4}}

[[File:SpotlightSideswipe ThunderwingVSWreckers.jpg|right|upright=1.8|thumb|''-10... -10... -10... -10... -10... -10... -10... -10... -10... -10...'']]
When Thunderwing popped up again guarding a cave on [[Corata-Vaz]], Optimus Prime sent for the team once again. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}} While they did not succeed in stopping Thunderwing themselves, they managed to survive until he was rendered inert by [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

Sometime later, some of the Wreckers were captured by the Decepticons. They were rescued by the remaining Wreckers, now led by [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]], and [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], who was acting independently. After this, Kup decided to form a new team that included Wreckers [[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Drift}}

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers1-newrecruits.jpg|thumb|upright=1.45|left|"What's your name, soldier?" "Parts, sir! Private Parts!"]]
After the great push by Megatron, Kup and Perceptor were made into Wreckers, with Ultra Magnus and [[Verity Carlo]] providing them with transport. Springer began to rebuild the Wreckers, compiling a list of potential recruits and sending them to Prowl for approval. Prowl substituted [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]] in over Springer's choice of [[Skyfall (G1)|Skyfall]], but the other picks were given the green light. {{storylink|Out of Bullets}} Along with Ironfist, Wrecker reservists [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]], [[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]], and [[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]] were added to the roster. Springer was becoming weary of assembling these teams, only to see them blown apart.

The first mission by the new team was to travel to [[Garrus-9]] and bring it back under Autobot control. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} After the arrival of a battered Impactor, however, they discovered that the sociopathic [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] had seized control of the facility and the whole place had gone mental. A report from Prowl also stated they needed to find "[[Aequitas]]". Splitting into two teams, the Wreckers made planetfall {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and soon became separated from each other. Perceptor's team were tasked to find Aequitas, but Springer abruptly changed strategy and split his group into two: one to find the prisoners, the other to "get help" from a maximum security cell. Perceptor's team succeeded—albeit with the loss of Rotorstorm to Overlord—but Springer, Impactor and Twin Twist were captured. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 3|Last Stand of the Wreckers #3}}

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers5- Ironfist Perceptor Verity.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|right]]
Topspin willingly sacrificed himself to activate Aequitas, simultaneously killing Twin Twist due to their branched spark. Kup and Guzzle failed to find the help they were looking for, but managed to save Springer and Impactor from death by torture. As Springer's team faced down Overlord himself, the other Wreckers finished their mission by downloading Aequitas's data into Ironfist. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} Perceptor's group then went to aid the others in the battle against Overlord, with Pyro sacrificing himself in the process. Overlord effortlessly defeated most of the remaining Wreckers, but was eventually taken down thanks to Ironfist's connection to Aequitas. Garrus-9 was liberated, and miraculously, no further Wreckers had been killed in the fight with Overlord... though Springer was in a critical condition and Ironfist succumbed to a workplace injury and died on the way home. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}

Convinced that their leader, Springer, was a goner, Whirl used Roadbuster's [[Sparkeater (weapon)|Sparkeater]] to attempt to euthanize Springer. Instead he was caught in the act by Roadbuster and kicked out of the Wreckers. {{storylink|Interiors}} [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] later suggested to Roadbuster that reading something emotional could reactivate the leader of the Wreckers, so Roadbuster read datalogs from the ''Wreckers: Declassified'', to no avail. However, after Roadbuster confessed to Springer what the other Wreckers felt about what Impactor did, and called Springer their best leader, the comatose Autobot began showing signs of life. {{storylink|Zero Point}}

Pardoned after Garrus-9, Impactor continued to wreck with Guzzle. The latter became increasingly blood-thirsty and large, and even Impactor, who'd made progress on giving up his overly violent ways, succumbed again.{{storylink|Escape (G1)|Escape}}

[[File:Sins of the Wreckers2-everybody's unhappy.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Ha, you expected that cool splash of the group from ''Sins'' #1? Tough luck, buster, you get a more accurate depiction of the Wreckers!]]
Five years after Garrus-9, Prowl was abducted by the insane [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]] and to get him back, a rejuvenated Springer assembled a new Wreckers team out of old guys and whoever happened to be around. For most members, this was more about keeping Prowl's secrets like the Aequitas data out of the public eye. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} In true Wreckers fashion, this went horribly wrong for most people involved and the team were rapidly faced with their own psychological issues: Kup learning how he'd killed Autobots while mad, Guzzle in constant battle fury, and Roadbuster proving still willing to torture. Backing Tarantulas up were [[Mayhem Attack Squad|Mayhem]], whose leader [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] felt Springer should be with them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 2|Sins of the Wreckers #2}} Half the team invaded the [[Noisemaze (dimension)|Noisemaze]] to reach [[Tor|Tarantulas' base]] and were immediately defeated by its maddening environment, with the exception of Verity (human) and the frequency-blocking Hubcap. The latter was then seen with Tarantulas, while Springer, Arcee, and Roadbuster were plugged into the guilt-extracting [[Impetus]] to relive their worst sins.

Impactor and Kup, meanwhile, had gone back to Debris: Impactor knew a little about the Noisemaze and had a 'backdoor' to it buried under his own in-waiting grave! {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 3|Sins of the Wreckers #3}}

While in Impetus, Roadbuster relived the [[Roadbuster affair]], where he killed his assigned cadets in the name of [[Mortilus]], who spoke to him as a voice in his head. In reality, the voice was Tarantulas, shrunken down to a tiny size to whisper in his ear. One surviving cadet was Hubcap, who was incensed that Roadbuster served minimal time for his crimes, and fell in with Tarantulas to help punish those responsible, including Prowl. Verity revealed she is dying due to exposure from Aequitas' radiation and blackmailed Prowl as a cry for help. Impactor, Guzzle and Kup used a space portal to drag ''Debris'' into the Noisemaze and collapse it, while rescuing their comrades. Inside, they battled the Mayhems, including Tidal Wave. Hubcap had a change of heart and freed the captive Wreckers, who attacked Tarantulas while Prowl went with Hubcap back to ''Debris''. Roadbuster smashed into Tarantulas and they both fell out a window. In the confusion, Tarantulas shrunk and buried himself inside Roadbuster's head, expanding to full size and killing him. Prowl is talked out of killing Hubcap due to his possession of the Aequitas data, just before Impactor did the deed, as the info was just too dangerous for Hubcap to possess. As the Wreckers planned to blow up the Noisemaze and destroy all of Tarantulas's inventions, the spider returned and confronted them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 4|Sins of the Wreckers #4}}

Using mass displacement, Tarantulas grew to massive size, while shrinking the Tor itself down to pocket size so that he could safely transport the facility out of the collapsing Noisemaze. He then turned on Arcee, Verity, and Prowl, gloating over how he healed Verity's illness purely to prove his intellect to Prowl. Springer planted explosives, while sending Impactor to deliver the Obtenteum and aid the others. Impactor revealed it was not Prowl who pushed Tarantulas into the Noisemaze all those years ago, but Impactor himself. At the sound of Springer's voice crackling over Impactor's comm, Tarantulas realized that Ostaros was not dead, but was now Springer. Tarantulas forgot his vengeance and instead climbed into the pit to reunite with his child. Prowl and Verity took the Obtenteum while the others battled Tarantulas.

[[File:Sins05-guzzledies.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.25|Dementia, dishonorable discharge, death.]]
While Tidal Wave punched his way through ''Debris'', coffins spilled out and Verity was brought to tears as Ironfist's body landed right in front of her. Guzzle used his own cannon to blast himself up into the air, jamming the Obtenteum into Tidal Wave's mouth and driving him mad. This forced Carnivac to unwittingly play into the Wreckers' hands by using his Outlier power to forcibly convert Tidal Wave to whale mode. The g-forces of the giant's transformation—amplified by the Obtenteum, were the last push needed to trigger the Noisemaze's complete and irrevocable collapse. Arcee and Impactor escaped while Tarantulas leaped into the pit after Springer. Springer attacked and could no longer transmit his part of the call-and-response signal, forcing Impactor, with the utmost reluctance, to press the button to set off the explosives. Aboard the damaged ''Debris'' Guzzle threatened to kill Kup and Prowl as revenge for the deaths of his friends on [[Tsiehshi]] and Prowl's crimes. Impactor was forced to kill Guzzle to save them. Prowl ran back inside the Noisemaze before it collapsed and saved Springer's life. Kup and Arcee returned to Optimus Prime's ranks on Earth while Impactor took up Carnivac on his offer to join Mayhem, joining their crusade to bring down those in power who use 'bots like them as pawns. Back in Nome, Alaska, Verity and Springer stared up happily at the Northern Lights, enjoying the normalcy while it lasted. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 5|Sins of the Wreckers #5}}

[[File:RequiemoftheWreckers Wrookies.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2]]
Springer and Verity lived on their own for a bit, with Springer using his time to remotely train new Wreckers cadets, but the two were soon dragged into a new plot by Carnivac and Mayhem. After learning of Impactor's terrorist actions as part of Mayhem, Springer became disillusioned again by his former commander, but the two teamed up to save the kidnapped Verity from the survived Tarantulas and Overlord. To prevent Overlord from going back in time with Tarantulas' [[Timemaze]] portal, Impactor sacrificed himself to give Springer the opportunity to defeat the Phase-Sixer once and for all. With Tarantulas also having died and Mayhem in shambles, Springer decided to use the Timemaze to travel back and attempt to rewrite history so the war would never begin. He bid farewell to Verity and sent a message to his cadets, as well as all surviving Wreckers before he left. Springer begged them to honor the Wreckers' bloodstained legacy by forgetting it and stepped through the portal with the final advice "Wreck the past, Rule your future." {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Requiem of the Wreckers}}
{{-}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] (by association)
*[[Blocker (G1)|Blocker]]
*[[Breacher (G1)|Breacher]] (trainee)
*[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]
*[[Bulkhead (G1)|Bulkhead]] (trainee)
*[[Crest]] (second known leader)
*[[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]]
*[[Hubcap (G1)|Hubcap]]
*[[Hyperion (G1)|Hyperion]] (third known leader)
*[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (fourth known leader)
*[[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]
*[[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]]
*[[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]]
*[[Piston (Wrecker)|Piston]]
*[[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]]
*[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]]
*[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]
*[[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]]
*[[Sixknight]]<ref>See [[Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers#Errors|Requiem of the Wreckers]] under "Errors" for details</ref> (trainee)
*[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] (fifth known leader)
*[[Stakeout (G1)|Stakeout]] (by association)
*[[Strongarm (G1)|Strongarm]] (trainee)
*[[Threnody]] (first known leader)
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Valve]]
*[[Verity Carlo]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}
{{-}}

====''Wings Universe''====
During the Great War, the Wreckers were Autobot elite commandos led by [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], who served as the opposite number to [[Macabre]] and his Decepticons in [[Squadron X]]. Their long struggle came to an unexpected end when Macabre set an ambush for the Wreckers on [[Torax Prime]] which they never walked into. Instead, the various members of Squadron X slowly turned against Macabre or went completely insane waiting for the Wreckers to show up. Impactor's squad eventually came to Torax Prime only after hearing about a massive explosion, caused when [[Earthquake (G1)|Earthquake]] strapped a couple of bombs to his chest and rushed Macabre in a demonstration of his dissatisfaction with the current mission. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur}}

The Wreckers' activities are largely undocumented beyond that, although centuries later, one group of Wreckers was led by [[Primal Prime]] during a [[Quintesson]] invasion. Shortly before or during [[2984]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Alpha Trizer]] recently reformed the Wreckers under Primal Prime's command and given the ship ''[[Rodimus Major]]'' to patrol distant corners of the galaxy in the name of peace (and give some of the more aggressive personalities on peacetime Cybertron an outlet). {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}

Primal Prime invited [[Flareup (G1)|Flare-Up]] to join the Wreckers, but [[Ginrai (robot)|Ginrai]] had already recruited her for the [[Cybertronian Knight]]s.

As the Knights responded with dread to an impending mandatory meditation session and lecture from Alpha Trizer, [[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]] quipped that the Wreckers had refused the assignment.

When Ginrai called a red alert for what turned out to be a space fender-bender at a [[Nebulos]] spaceport, Apelinq reported that the Wreckers were two systems away. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}

While journeying to check up on a Predacon colony near the [[Dark Nebula]], the ''Rodimus Major'' was caught in the gravity well of a wormhole anomaly. {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} With no hope of breaking free, Primal Prime ordered [[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]], the only Wrecker with personal FTL capability, to return at top speed to Cybertron with their logs. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}

'''Known members: '''
{{collist|3|
*[[Backstop (G1)|Backstop]]
*[[Buzz Saw (BW)|Buzzsaw]]
*[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]
*[[Drop Zone]]
*[[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]]
*[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]
*[[Night Viper]]
*[[Primal Prime]] (leader)
*[[Quickstrike (BM)|Quickstrike]]
*[[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Major]]
*[[Stockade (Universe 2003)|Stockade]]
*[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] (second-in-command)
*[[Tripwire (G1)|Tripwire]]
*[[Wide Scope]]
}}

====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====
When [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] were created in [[Legends World|another dimension]], ''Transformers'' nerd [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] identified them as Wreckers from [[#Marvel The Transformers comics|a British comic book]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 4|Bonus Edition Vol. 4}} The two accepted this as their origin story and, after traveling to the year 2004 of the [[G1 World]], introduced themselves as Wreckers to [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]. [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] overheard their conversation and thought it was a really cool name for a team, so he founded his own Wreckers as a new Autobot unit and recruited all four of them. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 7|Bonus Edition Vol. 7}} {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG-07 Jetfire Sequel|LG-07 Jetfire Sequel}} Springer's vague mission statement for the Wreckers was "doing cool stuff", but [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] thought that was stupid and instead charged them with cleaning the area around [[Mount St. Hilary]]. As a result, a disappointed Springer left the team for a few years. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#G1 Wreckers Birth Story|G1 Wreckers Birth Story}}

In the 2030s, the Wreckers traveled to the Legends World to defend it from [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and [[Katsu Don]]. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG65 Twin Twist Prologue|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} Topspin and Twin Twist did most of the work thanks to having mastered the powers of the [[Zodiac]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 65|Bonus Edition Vol. 65}} {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 66|Bonus Edition Vol. 66}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Springer (G1)|Springer]]
*[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (G1)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]
}}

====Ask Vector Prime====
In [[Primax 208.06 Zeta]], the Wreckers were a resistance group led by [[Rodimus Primal]] that fought against [[Obsidian (BM)|Obsidian]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/16}}

====''Of Masters and Mayhem''====
[[File:Toxic Transformer The Wreckers.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6|"What are we, [[Avengers|a team]]? No, no, no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're ... [[Wreckage (G1)|we're a time bomb.]]"]]
After the monstrous [[Thunder Mayhem]] was created by the Decepticons and unleashed on the universe, the Wreckers took it on and were slaughtered. Only Impactor survived and swore revenge on the seemingly-unstoppable [[combiner]], which went on to completely devastate Cybertron and nearly wipe out the planet's entire population. {{storylink|Lively Pursuit}} Seeking new soldiers from the meager pool of Cybertronians left alive, Impactor traveled the galaxy and recruited Counterpunch on [[Paradron]], {{storylink|The Truth We Make}} Fractyl on [[Chicxulania]], {{storylink|Life Finds a Way}} Alpha Bravo and Offroad on [[Abrax]]as, {{storylink|Foundation and Wreckage Part 1: Deadly Aim|Deadly Aim}} and awakened a sealed-away Toxitron in the ruins of Cybertron. {{storylink|The Toxic Transformer}}

Deciding the only way to combat Thunder Mayhem was with a combiner of their own, Impactor put Fractyl to work on that project. Fractyl combined the mysterious power source [[greenergon]] with Toxitron's unique biochemistry, allowing for a comparable merger to Thunder Mayhem. After the Wreckers were all physically re-engineered, they traveled to an alien planet to test their new ability. All save Impactor merged, with the newborn gestalt dubbing himself "[[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]]". They were soon attacked by [[Mecannibal]]s, and Wreckage went on a rampage and began slaughtering them, then turning his bloodlust on Impactor. Only Alpha Bravo's willpower and internal horror at what they had become stopped Wreckage, forcing his disassembly. After returning to their ship, Alpha Bravo decided that Wreckage was as great a monster as Thunder Mayhem and could not be allowed to form again. He murdered his best friend Offroad and then allowed himself to be killed by Toxitron, intending that to be the end of Wreckage. The team was shaken by the betrayal and moreso when they realized Impactor had a failsafe installed in Wreckage that would kill all of them if the need arose. {{storylink|Foundation and Wreckage Part 1: Deadly Aim|Deadly Aim}}

[[File:LivelyPursuit Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|right|Wreckers AA meeting.]]
The Wreckers returned to Cybertron and encountered Bluestreak, having fallen under the sway of the [[Teklaan]]s. Impactor managed to convince him to join them and Bluestreak chose to be reformatted into a new limb for Wreckage. With Impactor now joining the merger, Wreckage was able to form up once again and drove the Teklaans off Cybertron. The Wreckers then discovered that the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]] was on [[Earth]] and headed there next to finally confront Thunder Mayhem. {{storylink|Lively Pursuit}}

Arriving on Earth, they found [[Metalhawk (G1)|Metalhawk]]'s team of Autobot [[Pretender]]s as well as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] himself fighting Thunder Mayhem and its new ally [[Ramjet (Universe)|Ramjet]]. {{storylink|Pandora's Gift}} The Wreckers combined into Wreckage once more and took Thunder Mayhem on, managing to finally defeat their adversary with the help of the other Autobots and [[human]] allies. In the aftermath, the Wreckers took the weakened members of the Mayhem Attack Squad into custody and departed Earth. {{storylink|Finale (OMAM)|Finale}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (leader)
*[[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl]]
*[[Toxitron (Universe)|Toxitron]]
*[[Alpha Bravo]]
*[[Offroad (CW)|Offroad]]
*[[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]] (ultimate weapon)
*[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]]
}}
{{-}}

====''Beast Wars: Uprising''====
During the waning days of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], the Wreckers tried to stop an [[Underbase]]-powered [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] only to be wiped out. {{storylink|Not All Megatrons}}

[[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] mentioned he was a former Wrecker. {{storylink|Derailment}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
[[File:Wreckeridw.png|thumb|]]

Led by Thunderclash, the Wreckers were ostensibly an undercover security force for [[Colonial Security]], presenting themselves as a traveling group of daredevils to avoid suspicion. The Wreckers operated without back-up or support from Colonial Security, leaving it unclear who exactly sanctioned them. Aside from Thunderclash, the group was composed of Aileron, Hot Shot, Ricochet, medical officer Minerva and cameraman Circuit.

After nearly two megacycles out in space, the Wreckers' feed was hijacked by the terrorists [[Mayhem Attack Squad|Mayhem]] who announced their opposition to the [[Speedia 500]] and demanded that [[Velocitron]] cancel the event and give power to the proletariat. At Thunderclash's order, the ''[[Stuntmaster]]'' set course for Velocitron where, contrary to Aileron's hope for covert ops, Thunderclash publicly declared that the Wreckers would join in the race. {{storylink|Tread & Circuits Part 1}}

[[File:Tread&Circuits1 WreckersJump.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|WRECK AND DO THE DEW!!]]
While the rest of the group scouted the top racers in hopes of finding Mayhem's operative, Circuit tracked down Mayhem only to be shot as he was relaying his position. Though his comrades found him, he was left in critical condition as the race began. {{storylink|Tread & Circuits Part 2}}

Once the Speedia 500 got underway, the Wreckers fended off Mayhem attacks, with some help from the other racers. Before they could take down [[Axer (G1)|Axer]], the local [[Security Operations]] appeared in droves and seized control of the scene, allowing the Mayhem operatives to sneak away and the [[Decepticon|Ascenticon]] racer, [[Knock Out (G1)|Knock Out]], to win the race. {{storylink|Tread & Circuits Part 3}}

Days later, the Wreckers attended the ceremonies at the Velocitronian Senate swearing in the First Senator and new delegates. As Knock Out was being sworn in, Submarauder skewered him with a harpoon gun, the Wreckers springing into action to both take down Mayhem and evacuate the civilians from the area. Though they succeeded, Minerva was caught holding the harpoon gun and arrested for attempted murder. Despite their best efforts, the Wreckers were forced to leave Minerva behind. When the medic was shown that Knock Out and Mayhem were in cahoots the entire time, she was promptly sentenced to indefinite stasis by the First Senator.

Back on the ''Stuntmaster'', the remaining Wreckers broadcast their intent to step away from the spotlight for a time, their last broadcast before Circuit passed away from his wounds. Worried about the political situation on Cybertron, but inspired by [[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]]'s enthusiasm, Thunderclash decided that the Wreckers should expand their ranks, putting out a call to trustworthy allies, both inviting them to join and help them find a [[space bridge]] back home. {{storylink|Tread & Circuits Part 4}}
{{-}}
'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]] (leader)
*[[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet]]
*[[Circuit (G1)|Circuit]]
*[[Hot Shot (G1)|Hot Shot]]
*[[Aileron]]
*[[Minerva (G1 robot)|Minerva]]
}}

===''Shattered Glass''===

====Fun Publications ''Shattered Glass'' continuity====
The Wreckers were a band of mercenaries led by [[Rodimus (SG)|Rodimus]], who spent their time looting and pillaging the countryside. They approved of [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus]]'s campaign of conquest, but initially preferred to remain autonomous.

That is, until one fateful day when Optimus hired the Wreckers to fight alongside his Autobots at the battle of [[Praxus-Delta]]. The battle was brutal and resulted in every Wrecker except Rodimus meeting the fate of most Wreckers across the [[multiverse]] at the hands of the Decepticons. Rodimus impressed Optimus by remaining in the fight regardless, in order to fulfill the contract. Thanks to his efforts the Autobots escaped without further losses, and Optimus was so impressed that he offered Rodimus leadership of the [[Seeker (SG)|Seekers]], which the former Wrecker accepted. {{storylink|Rodimus (SG)#Timelines|BotCon 2008 Rodimus profile card}}

After the [[Mayhem Suppression Squad]] had successfully turned back one of the Autobots' raids, [[Side Burn (SG)|Side Burn]] reminded Prime that he ''had'' recommended reforming the Wreckers as their best counter to the Squad.

Later, when trying to convince [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] and [[Sideswipe (SG)|Sideswipe]] to leave the Decepticons and join up with one of his power-grabbing schemes, Rodimus hearkened back to what was likely the Wreckers' old motto, when he told them that they'd have "a whole planet ready to ''wreck-and-ruin''!" {{storylink|Dungeons & Dinobots}}

====IDW ''Shattered Glass'' comic====
'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Blaster (SG)|Blaster]]
*[[Goldbug (SG)|Bumblebee]] (former member)
*[[Drift (SG)|Drift]]
*[[Impactor (SG)|Impactor]] (deceased)
*[[Jazz (SG)|Jazz]]
*[[Kup (SG)|Kup]]
*[[Ricochet (SG)|Ricochet]]
*[[Rodimus (SG)|Rodimus]]
*[[Sandstorm (SG)|Sandstorm]]
*[[Springer (SG)|Springer]]
*[[Tailgate (SG)|Tailgate]]
*[[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)
*[[Wheeljack (SG)|Wheeljack/Slicer]]
}}

The Wreckers began as a group of enforcers for [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Orion Pax]], commanded by [[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]]. After an encounter with Senator [[Shockwave (SG)|Shockwave]] exposed Magnus' poor grasp on the team, Magnus removed Impactor from the group and gave them their name. At Pax's command, the Wreckers launched an attack on the [[Senate]], killing many Senators and abducting Shockwave for the [[empurata]] procedure. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 1|Shattered Glass II #1}} When the Great War broke out, [[Blaster (SG)|Blaster]] joined their ranks. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 2|Shattered Glass II #2}} After the war ended, Magnus placed Wreckers throughout Autobot society so they could keep him abreast of various developments. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 5|Shattered Glass #5}}

After the Decepticons had conquered [[Kaon (polity)|Gold City]] and Goldbug had revived [[Metroplex (SG)|Metroplex]], the Wreckers came before Optimus Prime. Recognizing that Prime would simply have the Wreckers fight all threats in his stead, the Wreckers turned on and overthrew Optimus. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 1|Shattered Glass II #1}} At Magnus' order, the Wreckers first began sabotaging the Decepticons' communications efforts. Though Blaster failed in his task, a failure for which he was promptly beheaded, the Wreckers managed to listen on Decepticon transmissions. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 2|Shattered Glass II #2}}

Via Slicer, the Wreckers managed to steal Metroplex from Goldbug, turning the Titan into their base of operations. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 3|Shattered Glass II #3}} Still plagued by self-confidence issues however, Ultra Magnus did not believe he could lead the Autobots as himself, instead conspiring to steal Optimus's body. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 5|Shattered Glass II #5}} After being repaired, Optimus was brought to Metroplex, {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 4|Shattered Glass II #4}} where his [[spark]] was extracted and placed in Magnus's body.

When [[Soundwave (SG)|Soundwave]] charged into Metroplex, alongside a defected Slicer, the Wreckers fell one-by-one before Slicer shot Magnus through the chest, seemingly ending the Wreckers. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 5|Shattered Glass II #5}}

===''Animated'' cartoon===
During the [[Great War (Animated)|Great War]], the Wreckers were a major problem for the Decepticons, operating behind their lines as a commando unit. They are noted for interrupting supply lines, destroying the mainframe on [[Bk'n]], and demolishing the shipyards of [[Salvvatan VI]]. They operated from the [[Omega Sentinel (Animated)|Omega Sentinel]] ship ''[[Zeta Supreme|Xantium]]'', which was bonded to [[Impactor Major]], apparently the leader of the team. Megatron created the [[Decepticon Heavy Brigade]] specifically to hunt down the Wreckers. When they finally met in battle, [[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]] was the only survivor on either side. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}

===Aligned continuity family===
{{bigquote|Wreckers don't call for backup. They call for clean-up!|[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] and [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]|"[[Loose Cannons]]"}}
[[File:ChainOfCommand Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|On the count of three, everybody say "Whirl sucks!"]]
The Wreckers traced their origins to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s Age of Origins, emerging as a band of roving vigilantes that protected the primitive settlements of Cybertron from marauding and pillaging groups such as the [[Vandal]]s, [[Breaker (COP)|Breakers]], and [[Ravager]]s. When the [[Quintesson]]s arrived on Cybertron, they created an official planetary police force, branding the Wreckers as outlaws. The Wreckers did not take this well, later joining [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]]'s rebellion against the invaders. When the era of colonization began, the Wreckers protected the first duplicate [[Well of All Sparks]] on the planet [[Archon]] from religious doomsday cultists. {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}

During the era of the [[Functionism|caste system]], the Wreckers had become [[Autobot High Council|Council Guardians]], later siding with the Autobots in the [[Great War (Prime)|Great War]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}} [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] and [[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] were also members, though early on in the war Bulkhead left to join [[Team Prime]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} Wheeljack left when [[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] was appointed to lead the squad {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} by [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] with the hopes Magnus would be able to give the squad some discipline. {{storylink|Project Predacon}} The Wreckers took part in the siege of the [[Hydrax Plateau]]. Afterwards, they were all that stood between [[Devastator (WFC)|Devastator]] and the [[Tagan Heights]] before [[Defensor (WFC)|Defensor]] arrived. They guarded the [[Well of All Sparks]] when [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] descended through it to free the [[core]] of its suffocation by [[Dark Energon]]. Ultra Magnus, [[Springer (WFC)|Springer]], and other team members opted to remain behind to distract [[Trypticon (WFC)|Trypticon]] when the ''[[Ark (WFC)|Ark]]'' launched, gaining invaluable allies in [[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]], [[Omega Supreme (WFC)|Omega Supreme]], and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

After Cybertron went dark, Wheeljack traveled the stars and eventually found Bulkhead on [[Earth]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} He left shortly after their reunion and continued to search the galaxy. He eventually found [[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]], but [[Dreadwing (Prime)|Dreadwing]] had found them both and promptly destroyed Seaspray's ship, killing the Wrecker. When Dreadwing made his way to Earth, Wheeljack followed to get his revenge. {{storylink|Loose Cannons}} The [[Insecticon (WFC)|Insecticon]] [[Hardshell]] noted that he had off-lined several Wreckers when fighting Bulkhead. {{storylink|Toxicity}} Miko was inducted as a Wrecker by Wheeljack after she off-lined Hardshell. {{storylink|Hurt}} At some point, [[Elite Guard]] graduate [[Smokescreen (Prime)|Smokescreen]] had studied every battle the Wreckers had been involved in. {{storylink|The Human Factor}} After arriving on Earth, Ultra Magnus again attempted to instill some discipline into Bulkhead and Wheeljack, but this only led to Wheeljack temporarily quitting the team. {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} The Wreckers served as a vital asset to Team Prime during the twilight days of the war, usually handling large swaths of enemies on their own {{storylink|Evolution}} and proved instrumental in securing the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)|Nemesis]]'' during the final battle of the war. {{storylink|Deadlock (episode)|Deadlock}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]
*[[Fisitron (Timelines)|Fisitron]]
*[[Hot Shot (Prime)|Hot Shot]]
*[[Impactor (Prime)|Impactor]]
*[[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]]
*[[Kup (WFC)|Kup]]
*[[Miko Nakadai]]
*[[Moonracer (COP)|Moonracer]]
*[[Pyro (Prime)|Pyro]]
*[[Rack n' Ruin]]
*[[Roadbuster (Prime)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Rodimus (WFC)|Rodimus]]
*[[Rotorstorm (Prime)|Rotorstorm]]
*[[Ruination (FOC)|Ruination]]
*[[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]]
*[[Springer (WFC)|Springer]]
*[[Topspin (FOC)|Topspin]]
*[[Twintwist]]
*[[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)
*[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]]
*[[Whirl (FOC)|Whirl]]
}}

===Live-action film series===
{{bigquote|We don't let them off the base much 'cause they're assholes.|[[Charlotte Mearing]]|''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]''}}
[[File:DOTM-Leadfoot-Topspin.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|How am I gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer, use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.]]
The Wreckers, [[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]], [[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]], and [[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]], were a trio of engineering geniuses who came to Earth aboard the Autobot spaceship ''[[Xantium (DOTM)|Xantium]]''. The Wreckers rarely left the secret Autobot launch facility at Cape Canaveral, partially because caring for the ship dominated their time, and partially because they were assholes. The Wreckers helped engineer the Autobots' feigned exile from Earth and assassination by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], and later participated in the battle for [[Chicago]]. They proved effective, if vicious, fighters, dismantling their fair share of Decepticons, challenging [[Shockwave (Movie)|Shockwave]] and rescuing [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] from an embarrassing situation. All three of them would continue fighting and would be among the surviving Autobots, accepting Earth as their true home. {{storylink|Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon}}

After the Battle of Chicago, [[Harold Attinger]] formed a secret faction of the CIA known as "[[Cemetery Wind]]" to hunt down all Transformers regardless of faction. Leadfoot was among the many casualties of the hunt, and his death was revealed to the surviving Autobots by [[Cade Yeager]]. [[Hound (Movie)|Hound]] sadly took off his hat in respect for his fallen friend, and Optimus Prime vowed to kill the person responsible for Leadfoot and the other's deaths. {{storylink|Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Age of Extinction}}

Topspin was very fortunate, as he was given sanctuary in [[Cuba]] with [[Seymour Simmons]]. He spends most of his time pestering him to go to the beach or play volleyball for fun. {{storylink|Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight}}

At some point, at least four Wreckers faced off against [[Scourge (ROTB)|Scourge]] and lost, the [[Terrorcon (ROTB)|Terrorcon]] leader claiming their insignias as trophies. {{storylink|Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)|Rise of the Beasts}}

====''Bot Shots''====
The Wreckers were an elite Autobot fighting force famed for their habit of not fighting fair. {{storylink|Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin's online bio}}

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]]
*[[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]]
*[[Steeljaw (DOTM)|Steeljaw]] (pet)
}}
{{-}}

===''Cloud''===
The Wreckers of [[Cloud World]] were a special Autobot unit tasked with defending the entire world of space-time from dangerous threats. Numerous harsh missions caused many of them to develop rather bad tempers.

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*[[Impactor (Cloud)|Impactor]]
*[[Ironfist (Cloud)|Ironfist]]
*[[Roadbuster (Cloud)|Roadbuster]]
*[[Topspin (Cloud)|Topspin]]
*[[Twin Twist (Cloud)|Twin Twist]]
*[[Whirl (Cloud)|Whirl]]
}}

===''Angry Birds Transformers''===
[[File:ABTF-screen WreckerSquad.jpg|upright=1.6|thumb]]
Yes, even the inhabitants of [[Piggy Island]] have their version of the Wreckers! This Squad of [[Autobird]]s is famed for toppling towers and popping [[Minion Pig]]s aplenty... and when they're all together, earning more gold coins in the process. Cha-ching! {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}

'''Known members:'''
*[[Stella (AB)#As Moonracer|Moonracer]]
*[[Chuck (AB)#As Rodimus|Rodimus]]
*[[Red (AB)#As Ultra Magnus|Ultra Magnus]]
*[[Bomb (AB)#As Wheeljack|Wheeljack]]
{{-}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
When [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] convinced his comrades to go and help [[Sentius Magnus]], [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] agreed by "the Wrecker way". {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Equilibrium}} Given Topspin and Twin Twist's absence from Earth, Springer recruited [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] to be the Wreckers' new resident driller. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Nosecone arrival}} When Whirl, Roadbuster, Topspin, and Twin Twist arrived on Earth, Impactor combined with them to form Ruination. Ruination went on to fight both the D.J.D. and the newly formed God Neptune.

'''Known members:'''
{{collist|3|
*Arcee
*Impactor
*Kup
*Nosecone
*Roadbuster
*[[Ruination (G1)|Ruination (Gestalt)]]
*Sandstorm
*Springer (Leader)
*Topspin
*Twin Twist
*Ultra Magnus
*Whirl
}}

==Toys==
{{note|While many characters identified in various forms of Transformers fiction as Wreckers have had a substantial number of toys made of them, this section is specifically referencing the toys marketed by [[Hasbro]] as Wreckers via the ''[[Transformers: Legacy#Other outlets|Legacy Wreck 'N Rule Collection]]''.}}
===''Legacy''===
[[File:Wreck 'N Rule Collection Wrecker Hammer.jpg|thumb|''Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Xaaron'']]
[[File:Hasbro-Amazon_Wreck_'N_Rule_Collection_Marketing_Text.jpg|center|650px]]

The [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]]-exclusive '''''[[Transformers: Legacy#Other outlets|Legacy Wreck 'N Rule Collection]]''''' was themed around the Wreckers, pulling in members from different iterations of the franchise. The collection consisted of 5 packs with a total of 7 characters. Each pack had part of a buildable cardboard Wrecker hammer display. The base of of the model has [[Cybertronian_language|Ancient Autobot text]] which translates to "Creator of the Wreckers Resistance - Emirate [[Xaaron]]". All five boxes could be stacked to form a display mural.

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Impactor.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]
*'''[[Impactor (G1)#Legacy|Comic Universe Impactor]] & [[Spindle#Legacy|Spindle]]''' (2-pack, [[2022]])
**''Accessories'': "HP Energon Mineblaster" rifle, "Trilithium Drill", cannon barrel, Tail-weapon
{{toydesigner|[[Shogo Hasui]] (TakaraTomy)}}

: Impactor is a redeco and retool of his ''Siege'' mold with a new [[Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel]] comic-inspired head, chest, and two-part shoulder cannon; the barrel of the cannon is now a separate accessory. His colors are richer, with his yellow becoming much more golden in color and his purples more magenta. His chest faction insignia is now that of the Wreckers.

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Spindle.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]

: Meanwhile, Spindle is a heavy [[retool]]ing of ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' Deluxe Class [[Paleotrex#Toys|Paleotrex]], transforming into an (inaccurate) ''Spinosaurus'' skeleton in 28 steps. Aside from the obvious ''Spinosaurus'' changes, Spindle has a new head and chest piece. Her deco is made to match her pack-in partner "[[Impactor (G1)#Legacy|Comic Universe Impactor]]".

: As a [[F.O.S.S.I.L. Technology|Fossilizer]], Spindle can split into weapons and armor compatible with the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]] for use by other ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' figures (or any figure with [[5 mm post]] compatibility). Notably, Spindle's new tooling is pointedly designed with an eye towards creating a Fossilizer combination homaging the ''original'' dino-combiner, [[Grimstone (PCC)|Grimstone]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=You will also notice in my quick photoshop render to display a spinosaurus I really wanted a Grimstone combiner face plate to replace the existing Paleotrex chest plate. I really enjoyed the old power core combiner dinobot Grimstone toy back when I painted the prototypes so the figure has always stuck in my mind.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CdYlW-XuQT3/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2022|month=05|day=11}}</ref> Due to having tiny feet and a very oddly proportioned body in robot mode, the figure can be difficult to pose without it falling over, not helped by the fact that her "ankle" tilts are actually positioned just below her knees.

: This mold's original version was [[redeco]]ed into [[Skelivore]], and retooled with a new head to make ''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' [[Transmutate (BW)#Generations Selects|Transmutate]].

: This set came with the main body of the hammer.

{{--}}

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Leadfoot.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]
*'''[[Leadfoot (G2)#Legacy|G2 Universe Leadfoot]] & [[Masterdominus#Legacy|Masterdominus]]''' (2-pack, [[2022]])
**''Accessories:'' Cannon, shoulder-mounted launcher, missile, Double-tusk weapon

: Leadfoot is a new-head [[retool]]ing of ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' "Battle Across Time" [[Mirage (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Mirage]], transforming into a Formula 1 race car.

: The issue with the 5 mm port on the back of the figure that was present on Mirage has been fixed for this release, with 5 mm pegs now able to be snugly placed inside it without the fear of them falling out.

: Despite being revealed in May 2022, Leadfoot's design was teased six months prior through the ''[[Transformers: Wreckers—Tread & Circuits|Tread & Circuits]]'' comic series.

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Masterdominus.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb]]

: Meanwhile, Masterdominus is a heavy (haha) [[retool]]ing of ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' Deluxe Class [[Ractonite#Toys|Ractonite]], transforming into a mastodon skeleton. As a [[F.O.S.S.I.L. Technology|Fossilizer]], Masterdominus can split into weapons and armor compatible with the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]] for use by other ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' figures (or any figure with [[5 mm post]] compatibility).

: This mold was differently tooled to make [[Tricranius#Toys|Tricranius]].

: This set came with the hammer's mounting base.

{{--}}

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Springer.jpg|upright=1.2|thumb]]
*'''[[Springer (G1)/toys#Legacy|Autobot Springer]]''' (Voyager Class, [[2022]])
**''Accessories:'' 2 blade swords, twin blasters, rotor blade base

: Springer is a redeco of the above ''Siege'' toy in a color scheme based on his original Generation 1 toy (also the color scheme used for his first comic appearance in "[[Target: 2006]]"), with a new Wreckers insignia.

: Springer comes with the "C" face of the hammer.

{{--}}

{{-}}{{anchor|WreckNRule}}
[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Bulkhead.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]
*'''[[Bulkhead (Prime)#WreckNRule|Prime Universe Bulkhead]]''' (Voyager Class, 2022)
**''Accessories:'' Machine gun, battle mace, battle hammer, tarp cover/shield

: This version of Bulkhead is a redeco of his previous ''Legacy'' [[Bulkhead (Prime)#Legacy|toy]] in a "military camo" color scheme that gives him an ''even bigger'' resemblance to ''Age of Extinction'' [[Hound (Movie)|Hound]]. In addition to his original accessories, Bulkhead now comes with a new hammer accessory resembling his arch-nemesis [[Breakdown (WFC)|Breakdown]]'s, and his machine gun and windows are now cast in a darker, almost opaque, translucent black plastic. The new instructions show a way to stow both the hammer and machine gun together in the truck bed under the tarp, but you can't stow both them and the mace at the same time.

: Bulkhead comes with the "B" face of the hammer.

{{--}}

[[File:Legacy-Wreck-N-Rule-Twin-Twist.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]
<ul class="iconlist">{{Bp-wr|'''[[Twin Twist (G1)#Legacy|Diaclone Universe Twin Twist]]''' (Deluxe Class, [[2022]])}}</ul>
:*''Accessories'': Headmaster, left & right combinable blasters

: Twin Twist is a redeco of his ''Titans Return'' [[Twin Twist (G1)#Titans Return|toy]] in a ''[[Diaclone]]''-inspired color scheme (duh). He comes with the same accessories as his ''Titans Return'' release, though sadly his "Headmaster" module redecoed from [[Flameout]] is unnamed. According to designer [[Mark Maher]], Twin Twist's ''Diaclone'' colors are specifically inspired by his appearance in the [[1985]] [[Package art#Back of the box art|back of the box art]].<ref name="Diaclone">{{citesocial|quote=This is obviously inspired by the diaclone release but it was featured on one of the early package artwork battle scenes. I always wanted Twintwist to rock the heroic blue and red pallet.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/Cdju3RoMZA4/|name=Mark Maher|site=Instagram|year=2022|month=05|day=15}}</ref>

: Twin Twist comes with the hammer's handle.

{{--}}

==Notes==
*The ''Wings Universe'' Wreckers were supposed to feature in "[[Cybertron's Most Wanted]]" following their mentions in "[[Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur]]", but an art coordination error prevented this from happening.<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/135573-wings-universecannonball-loose-ends/?p=3406288 Post by NightViper (Jesse Wittenrich) on the Allspark Forums, 2016/12/23]</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Wreckers''' (レッカーズ ''Rekkāzu'')
*''German:'' '''Schrotter''' ("Wrecker")
*''Hungarian:'' '''Rontók''' ("Ruiners")
*''Italian:'' '''Demolitori''' ("Demolishers")
*''Korean:'' '''Wreckers''' (레커즈 ''Lekeojeu'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Léitíng Zhěngjiù Duì''' (China, 雷霆拯救队, "Lightning Rescue Team"), '''Huíshōu Jiùyuán Duì''' (China, 回收救援队, "Reclaim & Rescue Team")
*''Turkish:'' '''Yıkıcılar''' ("Wreckers")

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Animated subgroups]]
[[Category:Autobot subgroups]]
[[Category:Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Cloud subgroups]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) subgroups]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) subgroups]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising subgroups]]
[[Category:Dark of the Moon subgroups]]
[[Category:Fall of Cybertron subgroups]]
[[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]
[[Category:Marvel Generation 1 subgroups]]
[[Category:Prime subgroups]]
[[Category:Shattered Glass subgroups]]
[[Category:Subgroups]]
[[Category:Universe (2003)]]
[[Category:Wreckers| ]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron subgroups]]
[[Category:Wings Universe subgroups]]