MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

User:Thunderwave

2025-07-26T19:59:22Z

Thunderwave:

Game Design Student and 2D Artist from Germany. 
My art is to be found under the Name '''bwans_art''' on platforms like Instagram and all that jazz.

Watched a clip comp, thought Shockwave was cool, now I'm here 

----

"A fan from Germany pleads for Blades to survive in the hopes that Defensor can appear in the comic. "
( https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers_(2023)_issue_22 )

'''THAT'S ME'''

Whoever added this, thank you, I am that fan from Germany!!

User:Thunderwave

2025-07-09T16:09:43Z

Thunderwave:

Game Design Student and 2D Artist from Germany. 
My art is to be found under the Name '''bwans_art''' on platforms like Instagram and all that jazz.

Watched a clip comp, thought Shockwave was cool, now I'm here 

----

"A fan from Germany pleads for Blades to survive in the hopes that Defensor can appear in the comic. "
(https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers_(2023)_issue_22)

'''THAT'S ME'''

Whoever added this, thank you, I am that fan from Germany!!

User:Thunderwave

2025-07-09T16:09:00Z

Thunderwave:

Game Design Student and 2D Artist from Germany. 
My art is to be found under the Name '''bwans_art''' on platforms like Instagram and all that jazz.

Watched a clip comp, thought Shockwave was cool, now I'm here 

"A fan from Germany pleads for Blades to survive in the hopes that Defensor can appear in the comic. "
(https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers_(2023)_issue_22)

THAT'S ME
Whoever added this, thank you, I am that fan from Germany!!

Transformers (2023) issue 16

2025-05-20T18:02:05Z

Thunderwave: /* Transformers references */

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[Transformers (2023 comic)|Transformers]]'' #16
|prev=Transformers (2023) issue 15
|next=Transformers (2023) issue 17
|image=Transformers 2023 16 Cover A.jpg
|caption=
|title=
|publisher=[[Image Comics]] [[Skybound Entertainment]]
|date=[[January 8]], [[2025]]
|coverdate=January 2025
|written by=[[Daniel Warren Johnson]]
|art by=[[Jorge Corona]]
|colors by=[[Sarah Stern]]
|letters by=[[Rus Wooton]]
|editor=[[Ben Abernathy]]
|production design=[[Andres Juarez]]
|production=[[Ashby Florence]]
|continuity=[[Energon Universe]]
|chronology=
}}

'''The Autobots are caught in the crossfire of a Decepticon civil war, and the only hope to end it may be the return of an even greater evil.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:TF2023 no. 16 - BruticusVsDevastator.jpg|left|250px|thumb]]
Despite her reservations, [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] leads [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] and [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] across the war-torn wastes of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to what was once the home of Cliffjumper's [[clan]], long forgotten by the [[Decepticon]]s ever since they destroyed it in a bombing campaign. Cliffjumper digs through the rubble to find a [[spark canister]] he had hidden away; though there isn't enough remaining to bring back any of his friends, he says there's the possibility it can be used to create something new.

On [[Earth]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] orders the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]s to merge into [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] to combat [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]]. As [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], Soundwave, and their respective troops clash, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]], and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] are caught in the middle of the carnage. [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] tries to reason with Starscream, but the one-time Decepticon leader is too obsessed with revenge and reveals the truth of what he and Soundwave did to [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]. As Starscream rants about the universe being made only for the strong, Thundercracker uses the [[H.I.S.S. tank]] remote control to steer Starscream's body off a ledge. The blue [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]] then transforms and flies away, abandoning Soundwave to the fury of [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]]. Optimus decides the [[Autobot]]s must intervene, fearing that the Decepticons’ senseless violence could damage the dam and endanger the humans. However, he is again overcome with visions and rage, firing his [[fusion cannon]] straight at the dam. Water bursts through the structure and sweeps away all the [[Transformer]]s. As the water rushes through the woods, Optimus spots two children on bikes fleeing from the waves. He tries to save them but is unable to reach them. Luckily, they are saved by the timely arrival of [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]], who uses his force field to protect the “strange little creatures,” who managed to survive nearly being crushed by the combiners.

Back on Cybertron, the Autobots return to their makeshift headquarters and Elita explains to Cliffjumper that they’ve been unable to communicate with any other Autobot resistances and that they could be the only ones left. Elita asks Cliff what he plans to do with the sparks in the canister, and he reveals his plan to take them to the [[Well of All Sparks|Well of Sparks]]. Elita reveals that the Well is deep in Decepticon-controlled territory, but Cliff insists that they need a new warrior to help them, something Bluestreak echoes. And afterward, Cliff will return to Earth. To [[Carly (G1)|Carly]].

Meanwhile, Carly and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] set off on their search for [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] with [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] and [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]]. Elsewhere, in some desert, [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] finds that which he was sent to find: [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], sitting in a cave, wounded and blinded. Megatron thanks Laserbeak as he grabs the bird, pulls out some of his cables and connects them to his eyes; he orders Laserbeak to act as his eyes and guide him to the Decepticons.

==Featured characters==
Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks. 
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (1)
* [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] (2)
* [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (3)
* [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] (13)
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (14)
* [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (15)
* [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (21)
* [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (22)
* [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]] (25)
* [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] (26)

|c2=
* [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (4)
* [[Bonecrusher (G1)|Bonecrusher]] (5)
* [[Mixmaster (G1)|Mixmaster]] (6)
* [[Scrapper (G1)|Scrapper]] (7)
* [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] (8)
* [[Hook (G1)|Hook]] (9)
* [[Scavenger (G1)|Scavenger]] (10)
* [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] (11)
* [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]] (12)
* [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (16)
* [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] (19)
* [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (20)
* ''[[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]]'' (23)
* [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] (27)
* [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] (28)

||c3=
* Kevin (17)
* Kevin's friend (18)
* [[Carly (G1)|Carly]] (24)
* [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (26)
}}

==Quotes==
"You think Soundwave is any different than me?! It was '''both''' of us that tore your precious Skywarp to pieces, all for his useful metals!!!" 
"You-- you lie!" 
"Wake up from your naïveté, Thundercracker!!! The universe is only for the strong!!! [[Turborat]] eat turborat! Spark versus spark! '''METAL ON METAL!'''"
:—'''Starscream''' shocks '''Thundercracker''' with news about their brother.

"Sorry I'm late to the party, I woke up and almost got crushed by [[Devastator_(G1)#Energon Universe|those]] [[Bruticus_(G1)#Energon Universe|two]]! What in the spark is going on?" 
"Chaos."
:—A newly reactivated '''Trailbreaker''' finds '''Optimus Prime''' in a bad spot.

"My old friend. It has been too long. I must thank you. For finding me, wandering this desolate landscape. But thanks to your temporary sacrifice... I can now, see. Now guide me to my warriors."
:—No longer blind, '''Megatron''' has returned.

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* We first learned about the destruction of Cliffjumper's clan in [[Transformers (2023) issue 4|issue #4]].
* Thundercracker initially believed the Autobots to be responsible for what became of Skywarp when he was revived in [[Transformers (2023) issue 5|issue #5]], but now knows that it was Starscream and Soundwave that used the Seeker to rebuild [[Teletraan I]].
* This is the first time Astrotrain has used his steam train mode in the Energon Universe.
* It was unknown why Astrotrain was locked away aboard the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' other than his rage against Megatron when we first saw him back in [[Transformers (2023) issue 8|issue #8]]. Here, we learn that Megatron was responsible for "ending his love."
* Optimus Prime has been experiencing strange visions ever since [[Sparkplug Witwicky|Sparky]] entered the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in [[Transformers (2023) issue 6|issue #6]]. However, these visions have been growing more and more corrupted, along with Optimus' eyes turning purple with rage, since [[Transformers (2023) issue 12|issue #12]].
* MEGATRON RETURNS! The Decepticon leader was last seen in the series proper to be frozen in a block of ice in issue #4, though readers of ''[[Cobra Commander (comic)|Cobra Commander]]'' know that he was taken by the denizens of [[Cobra-La]] to be studied. He escaped from [[Cobra-La]] in [[Transformers Energon Universe Special story|the ''Transformers'' segment]] of the ''[[Energon Universe 2024 Special]]'', though losing his (remaining) eye to [[Golobulus]] in the process.

===''Transformers'' references===
* Devastator says, “Prepare for Devastation, Bruticus!” Which was actually heard in [[All Hail Megatron]] by Devastator himself.
* Starscream’s line, “Sniveling FOOL! You cannot kill what is unkillable!”, to Soundwave, during their fight, is an obvious reference to multiple pieces of Transformers media where Starscream survives death through various ways. Such as surviving as a ghost, having an immortal spark, or by having a piece of the AllSpark connected to him.
* Thundercracker’s decision to abandon the Decepticons fits in with earlier portrayals of him, calling to mind both his original toy file card and his appearances in the [[2005 IDW continuity]].
* The Well of Sparks, more commonly known as the "Well of All Sparks" is a longtime piece of ''Transformers'' mythology, first appearing in the [[Dreamwave Generation One continuity]] in ''[[Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages]]'' [[Conflagration|#6]].

===Covers===
* '''Cover A:''' Bruticus vs. Devastator, by Daniel Warren Johnson and [[Mike Spicer]].
* '''Cover B:''' Bruticus emerges from a smoking forest, by Jorge Corona and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover C:''' Connecting cover by [[Karl Kerschl]].
* '''Cover D:''' Soundwave vs Starscream, by [[Manabu Yashiro]].
* '''Cover E:''' Laserbeak perches on Megatron’s arm, by [[Homare]].

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 16 Cover A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Cover B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Cover C.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Cover D.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Cover E.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Unknown Comics Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Big Time Collectibles Cover A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 The 616 Comics Cover A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 The 616 Comics Cover B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 16 Big Time Collectibles Cover B.jpg|
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* Explore the Energon Universe in ''[[G.I. Joe (2024 comic)|G.I. Joe]]'' [[G.I. Joe (2024) issue 3|#3]], ''[[Void Rivals]]'' [[Void Rivals issue 16|#16]], and Transformers #17.
* Four-page preview for ''Invincible Universe: Battle Beast''

===Reprints===
* '''''Transformers Volume 3: Combiner Chaos''''' ([[May 28]], [[2025]]) ISBN 153432559X / ISBN 978-1534325593 
** Collects issues #13–18 and the [[Transformers Energon Universe Special story|''Transformers'' story]] from ''[[Energon Universe 2024 Special]]''.
** Trade paperback format.

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 V3.jpg|'''''Volume 3: Combiner Chaos''''' – cover art by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer
</gallery>

==External links==

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) issues]]

The Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks

2025-02-01T23:26:52Z

Thunderwave: /* Errors */ Added possible error on page 8

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[The Transformers: Lost Light|The Transformers: Lost Light]]'' #11
|prev=The Plotters' Club (Part 1): Full Circle
|next=The Plotters' Club (Part 3): Journey's End
|image=LL11_cvrA.jpg
|title="The Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks"
|caption="I'm sure you're wondering how I got here."
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[November 29]], [[2017]]
|coverdate=October 2017
|written by=[[James Roberts]]
|art by=[[Jack Lawrence]]
|colors by=[[Joana Lafuente]]
|letters by=[[Tom B. Long]]
|editor=[[Carlos Guzman]]
|continuity=[[2005 IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[2005 IDW timeline|Current era]]
}}
'''Or: How Getaway Did It.'''

==Synopsis==
Not so very long ago, aboard the ''[[Lost Light]]'', [[Getaway]] reclines on a couch in [[Rung (G1)|Rung]]'s quarters and tells [[Froid]] the story of how he took over the ship...

Over the course of months, one by one, Getaway and co-conspirator [[Atomizer]] speak to every member of the ''Lost Light'' crew, either securing their aid in a potential future mutiny against [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] and [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], or wiping their memories with Getaway's [[nudge gun]] if they refuse. Most of the crew sides with them outright, with around two-dozen "undecided" voters. After winning over [[Mainframe (G1)|Mainframe]], the pair hold their final "interview" with [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]—an Autobot who Getaway clearly hates, but who, surprisingly, is totally on board with the idea of getting rid of Megatron.

Getaway's plot falters when he is incarcerated for manipulating [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] in an attempt to get Megatron to incriminate himself, but when Mainframe picks up a signal from [[Necroworld]], he sees the opening Getaway has told him to watch out for, and quickly arranges for Megatron, Rodimus, and their "inner circle" to be stranded on the planet when they leave the ship to investigate. Soon after the mutineers free Getaway, Rodimus's team makes contact with the ship, whereupon Getaway gloats over his victory—but it transpires that most of the rest of the crew were unaware of his plan to hand Megatron over to the [[Galactic Council]], having only ever thought that the plan was to get him off the ship. After terminating Rodimus's call, Getaway reassures the crew that he has made sure the other Autobots' lives are in no danger... but that is another lie, as the Council agreed to no such terms, and Getaway's attempts to make contact with the Council to amend their agreement are refused, leading to a temper tantrum from the escapologist that ends with a chair being put through a viewscreen.

Needing to get the crew back on his side with a "clean win," Getaway puts [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] to work decrypting a collection of confusing information Getaway amassed while he was being held prisoner by [[Solomus|Tyrest]] on [[Moonbase One|Luna 1]]. Perceptor succeeds, locating what Tyrest called "the [[Warren]]"—a knot of quantum tunnels through which Tyrest intended to take Luna 1 to [[Cyberutopia]], but which he had never been able to find. Getaway calls the crew together to tell them about this discovery, and, by comparing it to the map Rodimus scratched into his desk, concludes they can find Cyberutopia within weeks. This is the first time Thunderclash has seen Rodimus's map, which looks different to the one he saw in his own dreams; spotting some unfinished scratches around Cyberutopia's location, he uses his own first-hand knowledge to finish sketching them in, revealing that they are the symbols of the five clans of the [[Knights of Cybertron]]. As everyone ponders what this might mean, [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] picks up a distress call; Getaway momentarily panics, until it turns out it is an SOS from the alien world of [[Frayus]], requesting help evacuating to escape a battle between the Galactic Council and the [[Black Block Consortia]]. The crew is stunned when Getaway refuses them aid, dubbing the mercy mission a "distraction" from their real end goal. Various crewmembers start to object, but are interrupted by the transmission that Getaway was dreading: a call from Rodimus himself. In fact, it is the "last will and testament" made by those stranded on Necroworld, but only Rodimus's portion has time to play—containing the fact that the castaways are about to die at the hands of the [[Decepticon Justice Division]]—before Getaway cuts it off and deletes it, claiming it is a fake. Getaway orders everyone out of the room save for Atomizer and Thunderclash; the latter is determined to go to the rescue of Rodimus and the others, but before he can storm off to gather up volunteers for the mission, Atomizer shoots him in the throat, and Getaway discharges the nudge gun into his head multiple times. The grisly scene is witnessed by an eavesdropping [[Riptide (G1)|Riptide]], who tries to run, but is soon on the receiving end of a nudge gun blast of his own.

...and that, it turns out, is where Froid came in. Getaway orders Atomizer to release the psychotherapist and his pet serial killer [[Sunder (G1)|Sunder]] from the ship's brig, and after he finishes telling Froid the story of how things got to this point, he proposes a trade. In return for using his remote [[mnemosurgery]] abilities to trap Thunderclash in a memory loop, and to alter the memories of the crew so they forget the transmission from Rodimus and believe he and the others left the ship of their own volition, Sunder demands the [[life cord]]s of twenty-five victims for him to feast upon. Atomizer has pronounced doubts; he can tell this is no longer about getting rid of Megatron, but has become about Getaway's own monomaniacal, narcissistic need to fulfill what he considers his "destiny" of becoming a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] at any and all costs. Even so, Getaway finds Sunder's price hard to swallow, but Froid—fascinated by Getaway's grotesque combination of psychological complexes and eager to study him in action—goads him on, inspiring Getaway to sacrifice the "undecided" voters to Sunder and have the crew's memory of them erased.

Getaway's heinous scheme is completed, but almost unravels when the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] return to the ship and are told the truth by Riptide, who turns out to have been unaffected by the nudge gun due to Getaway running out its charge blasting Thunderclash. While the Protectobots are hunted down trying to escape by a security team who have been mnemosurgically convinced they are undercover Decepticons, Getaway and Atomizer take Riptide to the ship's oil reservoir, which Getaway reveals he has filled with [[scraplet]]s. It is to these metal-eating monsters that Getaway has been feeding Sunder's "sacrifices," stripping them down to only their life cords... and to pay Sunder to place the Protectobots in memory loops of their own, he needs another one. With a final blast of the nudge gun, Getaway wipes Riptide's memory of how to transform into his boat mode, and shoves him into the reservoir...

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
{{{!}}border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background:transparent"
{{!}}-
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Getaway]] (1)
* [[Atomizer]] (2)
* [[Mainframe (G1)|Mainframe]] (3)
* [[Joyride (G1)|Joyride]] (4)
* [[Slapdash (G1)|Slapdash]] (5)
* [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]] (6)
* [[Jackpot (G1)|Jackpot]] (7)
* [[Hosehead (G1)|Hosehead]] (8)
* [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] (10)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (11)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Crosscut (G1)|Crosscut]] (14)
* [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] (15)
* [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] (16)
* [[Riptide (G1)|Riptide]] (17)
* [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] (18)
* [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] (19)
* [[Skids (G1)|Skids]] (20)
* [[Grapple (G1)|Grapple]] (21)
* [[Siren (G1)|Siren]] (22)
* [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (23)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] (24)
* [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] (25)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (26)
* [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] (27)
* [[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]] (28)
* [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] (29)
* [[Dipstick]] (30)
* [[Rollout (G1)|Rollout]] (31)
* [[Sprocket (G1)|Sprocket]] (32)
* [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] (33)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Gears (G1)|Gears]] (34)
* [[Xaaron]] (35)
* [[Sunder (G1)|Sunder]] (37)
* [[Pointblank]] (38)
* [[Boss (G1)|Boss]] (39)
* [[Grotusque]] (40)
* [[Rook (CW)|Rook]] (41)
* [[Streetwise (G1)|Streetwise]] (42)
* [[Dogfight (G1)|Dogfight]] (43)
* [[Strafe (G1)|Strafe]] (44)
{{!}}}

|c2=
* [[Ravage (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ravage]] (12)

|c4=
* [[Froid]] (9)
* [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] (13)
* [[Galactic Council]] agent (36)
}}

==Quotes==
"So... Mainframe's a '''yes.'''" 
"Course he is. He's lonely—and the loneliest are the easiest."
:—'''Atomizer''' and '''Getaway'''

"If we can win '''him''' over, we're laughing. Half the crew '''worship''' him. People have to sit down after talking to him." 
"He's not '''that''' impressive." 
"He carried the Matrix..." 
"Temporarily! And he never displayed '''The Signs,''' did he? There's a world of difference between '''storing''' the Matrix and '''carrying''' it. He stored it. He was a glorified '''trophy cabinet.'''"
:—'''Atomizer''' and '''Getaway''' discuss Thunderclash

"Tailgate. '''That''' was my first misstep..." 
"I'd like to talk about that. Has anyone ever used the word 'predatory' to describe your behavior?" 
"Only as a compliment."
:—'''Getaway''' and '''Froid'''

"So here's the thing about '''lying'''... the more you do it, the easier it gets."
:—'''Getaway'''

"After I die, I want someone to sell my '''innermost energon'''—it's Matrix-enriched, so, y'know, it'll fetch a good price—and use the proceeds to employ a '''bounty hunter'''. There's this '''freelance peacekeeping agent''' on Elpasos. Horns, detachable hand, eyebrows that would make Rung jealous. Use him. I want what's left of my body turned into a '''pathblaster'''—Brainstorm says it's totally possible—and I want the bounty hunter to '''use''' the pathblaster to '''shoot Getaway in the face.''' Now '''ideally''', the pathblaster would be in my colors? But the main thing is that Getaway dies knowing I was personally responsible for his lack of a head."
:—'''Rodimus''' delivers his last wishes

"I need to '''trick''' them into '''trusting''' me again."
:—'''Getaway''' in a nutshell

"[Getaway] makes for a '''fascinating''' case study. Narcissism, impostor syndrome, a truly '''multi-faceted''' inferiority complex... it's quite the cocktail."
:—'''Froid'''

"D'you know why '''Team Megatron''' lost interest in you? D'you know why they didn't take you to Necroworld? Clue: it's because '''you're not like them.''' Brainstorm, Ratchet, Nightbeat, Skids. They're smart guys, Riptide. And you... you're really not." 
"I'm not a '''psychiatrist''' either, but I'm pretty sure this conversation says more about '''you''' than me."
:—'''Getaway''' and '''Riptide'''

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* Froid and Sunder were last seen in [[Speak, Memory! (Part 2)|''More than Meets the Eye'' #49]].
* Two "undecided" voters are named by Atomizer, both "comic-original" characters: [[Fervor]], who first appeared in [[Speak, Memory: Part 1|''More than Meets the Eye'' #48]], and [[Turbine]], whose only appearance came in [[Interiors|issue #6]].
* Just before his meeting with Thunderclash, Getaway says he is going to the oil reservoir with Tailgate; the pair were shown to go fishing there in [[Our Steps Will Always Rhyme|''More than Meets the Eye'' #40]], but that can't be ''this'' time, because the presence of Thunderclash on the ship dates this scene to after [[The Frail Gaze|issue #42]] (but see "Errors," below).
* Thunderclash was previously stated to have held the Matrix in [[Little Victories|''More than Meets the Eye'' #22]]. Getaway is ''most'' put out about this, pointing out that Thunderclash never displayed "the Signs"; he is referring to the "Signs of Affinity" that means one is suited to be an actual-factual Matrix bearer. ''Why'' is Getaway so annoyed? Well, as we oh-so-casually learned in [[Twenty Plus One|''More than Meets the Eye'' #31]], Getaway himself purportedly showed the Signs, which goes a long way to explaining the warped sense of self-entitled "destiny" that this issue reveals has been his main motivator all along.
* Getaway flashes back to the events of [[The Lopsided Triangle|''More than Meets the Eye'' #47]], in which he tried to have Tailgate killed by Megatron. We see [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] arresting him, an off-panel scene not shown before that takes place between issues #47 and #48.
** Earlier, Getaway pre-emptively suggested to Mainframe that "Megatron's fan club" might lock him up for some "crime" as an excuse if they ever found out he was plotting against them. This implies Mainframe (and possibly other mutineers) ultimately didn't believe the Tailgate story was true when they sided with Getaway.
* Pages 6–7 are reprinted in their entirety from [[The Dying of the Light: (1) How Bright Their Frail Deeds|''More than Meets the Eye'' #50]], featuring the artwork of [[Alex Milne]] and [[Priscilla Tramontano]], with surrounding pages showing the other side of the same scene back on the ''Lost Light'' that we didn't see in the original issue. General [[Neech]] of the Galactic Council, who appeared in that issue, is name-dropped here.
* Getaway makes a positive comment about how "Perceptor > physics" that is ''very'' similar to a statement made by Rodimus in [[Elegant Chaos Part 3: Predestination: An Expert's Guide|''More than Meets the Eye'' #38]]. The difference between him and Rodimus is emphasized when he follows it up with a negative comment about how Highbrow didn't get his oh-so-funny joke.
* Getaway refers back to his time as a prisoner of Tyrest, and the deranged Chief Justice's attempts to create a portal to Cyberutopia, which, as a footnote reminds us, were chronicled in [[Remain in Light|''More than Meets the Eye'' #17-21]]. "The Warren" was namedropped just last issue; the idea that Tyrest wanted to fly the entire moon of Luna 1 through it hearkens back to the revelation that the moon had massive planetary engines, as revealed at the end of issue #21.
* Hound recalls the class Megatron held on the Knights of Cybertron, and the conclusion they all reached that the Knights sub-divided into different clans, each represented by a different symbol, which all took place in ''More than Meets the Eye'' #50. We learned that there were five clans total in [[An Axe to Break the Ice|''Lost Light'' #8]], but only the infamous gear-symbol that has been appearing throughout the adventures of the ''Lost Light'' was known to the class at the time; Thunderclash noted that he had seen other symbols but been unable to focus on them, suggesting that his successful completion of the images in this issue is the first time he has done this.
* In his broadcast, Rodimus says his [[innermost energon]] is Matrix-enriched referring to the brief time he held the artifact from [[Heart Like a Wheel|''The Transformers'' #13]] to [[Space Opera—Final Tableaux: Orphans of the Helix|''The Transformers'' #21]].
* The scraplets Getaway has filled the reservoir with are specifically identified as partially-domesticated "Red Scraplets" he found in the medibay. Though you may immediately assume these are the same scraplets that caused trouble for the crew in [[Silent Light|the 2015 ''Transformers Holiday Special'']], which were quite intelligent and last seen in the medibay, those scraplets weren't red; this is, in fact, a different cluster of scraplets that were alluded to be on the ship from the beginning of its voyage, which appeared in a single panel in [[The Gloaming|''More than Meets the Eye'' #16]], and were indeed red in color. Moreover, [[slaughterhouse Part 2: The Road Not Taken|issue #33]] noted that the ''Lost Light''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s quantum duplicate had "domesticated scraplets" aboard, which must surely be the same critters.
* Did you spot the implication that something menacing was lurking in the oil reservoir last issue? When Getaway had his conversation with First Aid about whether or not he could trust him, it was held outside the oil reservoir, and Getaway had his hand on the controls, aaalll ready to open the door and shove First Aid in if trust wasn't forthcoming...

===Transformers references===
* The "freelance peacekeeping agent" Rodimus describes in his last wishes (quoted above) is, of course, [[Death's Head (G1)|Death's Head]], the bounty hunter created for the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel UK Generation 1 comic]], who has previously been alluded to in IDW continuity by [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]'s bio in [[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|''Last Stand of the Wreckers'' #5]]. Rodimus notes Death Head hangs out on the planet [[Elpasos]]; that's where Death's Head was visiting during his first appearance in [[Wanted: Galvatron — Dead or Alive!|Marvel UK issue #113]]—famously, Roberts's first issue of the comic, and one he has made [[113 (disambiguation)|numerous references]] to during his tenure.
* Rodimus also requests that his dead body be converted into a [[Pathblaster]] that Death's Head should use to kill Getaway; the Pathblaster is another Marvel UK reference, a devastatingly powerful weapon featured in [[Time Wars|issue #203]]. Rodimus's intention to have it blow off Getaway's head, specifically, may reference how its sole use in that issue removed part of Galvatron's.
* While the Scraplets that appeared in the ''Holiday Special'' were based on the version of the critters from the Marvel comic (parasites that slowly eat away at their victims), the Red Scraplets are based on those seen in [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|''Transformers: Prime'' animated series]], piranha-like predators that consume their victims in seconds. The single Red Scraplet seen in close-up is based on the ''Prime'' Scraplet design, except—naturally—colored red.
* Ravage's pose on page 5 is, of course, based on his [[:File:Ravageboxart.jpg|Generation 1 packaging art]].

===Real-life references===
* Various pieces of dialogue in this issue include allusions to the talking points of ascendant right-wing politicians uttered across 2016-2017:
** "The will of the people has been realized—all without a single shot being fired!" says Getaway after stranding Team Rodimus. The outcome of 2016's {{w|Brexit}} referendum in the [[United Kingdom]] has often been referred to with the buzz-phrase "the will of the people." Brexit proponent {{w|Nigel Farage}} remarked following the win that "revolution" had been victorious "without a single bullet being fired." A statement that understandably angered a lot of people, as the campaign had seen the public murder of {{w|Jo Cox}}, an anti-Brexit Member of Parliament, by a man shouting pro-fascist statements as he SHOT her. Indeed, in-universe the crew have just learned Getaway has indeed shot people with the nudge gun (albeit not fatally) and has implied they're going to ''be'' shot (fatally) by the Council.
** Getaway calls Rodimus's transmission "{{w|fake news}}," a term referring to misinformation and propaganda, but most famously used by {{w|Donald Trump}} to simply attack negative news reports about him in the same incendiary manner Getaway employs it here.
** Froid goads Getaway by saying he is securing "a strong and stable future for our race"; "strong and stable" was the election slogan of [[Prime Minister of the United Kingdom|British Prime Minister]] {{w|Theresa May}} in 2017, which was repeated so regularly and robotically that it became the subject of mockery in the press.
* Getaway calls Riptide "{{w|Boaty McBoatface}}", a name that entered the meme-o-sphere in 2016 when it won an online poll to decide what a new {{w|RRS Sir David Attenborough|UK Antarctic research vessel}} would be called.
* He also calls him "the little boat that couldn't," a reference to ''{{w|The Little Engine That Could}}''.
* Getaway refers to turning Tailgate into a "red rag." That's an allusion to the rather British euphemism, "like a red rag to a bull," referring to an act of deliberate provocation—like trying to provoke Megatron into murdering Tailgate.

===Errors===
* Getaway's meeting with Thunderclash is technically impossible. The former captain of the ''[[Vis Vitalis]]'' was comatose from the time he was brought on board the ''Lost Light'' in [[The Frail Gaze|''More than Meets the Eye'' #42]] until waking up in [[Speak, Memory: Part 1|issue #48]], ''after'' Getaway had already pulled his stunt with Tailgate and Megatron, meaning that there is no point in time at which the meeting seen in this issue could have occurred. When this was pointed out to Roberts on Twitter, he admitted his mistake, and promised a "continuity patch" in a later issue that would indicate Thunderclash had woken from his coma and had a relapse somewhere between the two issues,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Right, so it hinges on Lotty's dialogue in 48. My No Prize explanation... has to be a series of relapses twixt 42 and 47. Expect a continuity patch.|link=https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/931201912103428097|name=James Roberts|site=Twitter|year=2017|month=11|day=16|(defunct=)}}</ref> though ultimately this did not come to fruition before the series's conclusion.
* On page 8 in the third panel, Perceptor is seen standing behind Hound. On the next page, Perceptor has been replaced by Inferno. Either Perceptor decided to walk elsewhere (given he's seen in the crowd shot that follows) or this is an error, likely due to Inferno and Perceptor having very similar designs.

===Other trivia===
* Originally solicited for release in October, this issue arrived noticeably late, in the final week of November.
* The re-used pages from ''More than Meets the Eye'' #50 are included in addition to the regular 20 story pages, making this story 22 pages in length.

===Crew manifest===
* Exiled: Brainstorm, Chromedome, Cyclonus, Megatron, Minimus Ambus, Nautica, Nightbeat, Ravage, Rewind, Rodimus, Rung, Skids, Swerve, Tailgate, Ten, Velocity and Whirl were effectively removed from the crew by Getaway's mutiny; Ravage and Skids have since died; Megatron is trapped in the [[Functionist Universe]]; Tailgate is buried alive on [[Necroworld]].
* Thunderclash: Comatose and trapped in a memory loop.
* Returned to the ship: the Protectobots and Mirage, also captured and trapped in a memory loop.
* 25 bots: reduced to life cords floating in engex.
* Riptide: thrown into oil reservoir with scraplets.

===Soundtrack===
* "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ajn-NXtdc I Am the Resurrection]" by {{w|The Stone Roses}}<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Lost Light #11 - Song 1 - I Am The Resurrection https://t.co/IXCnSMSwHS|link=https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/934161366163869696|name=James Roberts|site=Twitter|year=2017|month=11|day=24|(defunct=)}}</ref>
* "Lost Myself" by {{w|Longpigs}}<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is the second song from Lost Light #11 (apologies if you can't access it) https://t.co/55pmepo9rj|link=https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/934163353089355776|name=James Roberts|site=Twitter|year=2017|month=11|day=24|(defunct=)}}</ref>
* "You Can't Always Get What You Want" by {{w|The Rolling Stones}}<ref>{{citesocial|quote=The penultimate song from Lost Light #11 is... https://t.co/DaAfZ6EXZK|link=https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/934164974183833601|name=James Roberts|site=Twitter|year=2017|month=11|day=24|(defunct=)}}</ref>
* "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero" by {{w|Morrissey}}<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Final song from Lost Light #11. What Do You Mean It's Too On The Nose? https://t.co/27afnJEArl|link=https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/934165768794722307|name=James Roberts|site=Twitter|year=2017|month=11|day=24|(defunct=)}}</ref>

===Covers (4)===
* '''Cover A:''' Getaway admires a "Getaway Star," by [[Jack Lawrence]] and [[Joana Lafuente]]
* '''Cover B:''' Getaway seizes the ''Lost Light,'' by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]], revisiting the theme of Roche and Burcham's covers for issues #1-5
* '''Cover C:''' Getaway aiming his nudge gun, reflected in [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]]'s visor, by [[Alex Milne]] and [[Josh Perez]]
* '''Retailer incentive cover:''' Megatron leads the Decepticons in attacking Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Windblade, with everyone in their [[Evergreen]] character designs, by [[Joana Lafuente]]; part of a matching pair with Lafuente's retailer incentive cover for [[Primeless, Part 2|''Optimus Prime'' #12]], which shows the scene from the opposite angle

<gallery>
File:LL11 cvrA.jpg|And he said he hated Rodimus.
File:LL11 cvrB.jpg|And he ain't giving it back!
File:LL11 cvrC.jpg|Don't worry First Aid, you'll forget all about it.
File:LL11 cvrRI.jpg|Nope, none of these folks are in this comic.
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* ''Lost Light'' #12
* ''[[First Strike]]: [[M.A.S.K.: First Strike|M.A.S.K.]]'', ''[[ROM: First Strike|ROM]]'', and ''[[Unification Day: Dusk|Transformers]]'' one-shots
* IDW ''[[Star Trek]]: Discovery'' comic
* ''Ghostbusters: Answer the Call'' #1
* ''Atomic Robo and the Spectre of Tomorrow'' #1
* ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]] Adventures''

===Reprints===
* '''''Transformers: Lost Light Volume 2''''' ([[February 14]], [[2018]]) ISBN 1684051487 / ISBN 978-1684051489
** Collects ''Lost Light'' issues #7–12.
** Bonus material includes a cover gallery.
** Trade paperback format.

* '''''[[Transformers: The Definitive G1 Collection]] Volume 79: Primeless''''' ([[November 14]], 2018)
** Collects ''[[Optimus Prime (comic)|Optimus Prime]]'' issues [[The Life of Sideswipe|#9]]–[[Primeless, Part 2|12]], and ''Lost Light'' issues #9–12.
** Bonus material includes information about the end of the IDW Universe, a cover gallery and an intro by [[Simon Furman]].
** Hardcover format.

* '''''[[The Transformers: The IDW Collection Phase Three: Volume 3]]''''' ([[September 27]], [[2022]]) ISBN 1684059070 / ISBN 978-1684059072
** Collects ''[[Revolutionaries]]'' issues [[Strange Visitors|#5]]–[[Ghost in the Machine (IDW)|8]], ''[[Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook]]'' [[Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook issue 2|#2]]: "[[Upgrade]]", ''Lost Light'' issues issues #8–9 & #10–12, ''Optimus Prime'' issues [[The Next Day, and the Next|#7]]–[[What It's Really Like|8]] & #9–[[Origin Myths|10]], [[Ghost Stories|''Transformers'' Annual 2017]], and ''[[The Transformers: Salvation|Salvation]]''.
** Hardcover format.

<gallery>
File:LLvol2 TPBcvr.jpg|'''''Lost Light Volume 2''''' – cover art by [[Alex Milne]] and [[Josh Perez]]
File:DefinitiveG1Collection v79.jpg|'''''The Definitive G1 Collection Volume 79: Primeless''''' – cover art by [[Don Figueroa]] and [[Livio Ramondelli]]
File:IDWCollectionP3V3.jpg|'''''The IDW Collection Phase Three: Volume 3''''' – cover art by [[Sara Pitre-Durocher]]
</gallery>

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [https://www.newsarama.com/37512-thunderclash-makes-a-choice-in-transformers-lost-light-11-preview.html Preview]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks}}
[[Category:Lost Light issues]]

Crucible (Part 1): A Dance Before Dying

2024-10-28T23:46:41Z

Thunderwave: /* Errors */ Added an error on page 6

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[The Transformers: Lost Light|The Transformers: Lost Light]]'' #19
|prev=The Everlasting Voices (3): You Are Here
|next=Crucible (Part 2): Lūstrāre
|image=LL19_cvrA.jpg
|title="Crucible (Part 1): A Dance Before Dying"
|caption=Shut up and dance with me.
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[July 4]], 2018
|coverdate=Early June, 2018
|written by=[[James Roberts]]
|art by=[[E. J. Su]]
|colors by=[[Joana Lafuente]]
|letters by=[[Tom B. Long]]
|editor=[[David Mariotte]]
|continuity=[[2005 IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[2005 IDW timeline|Current era]]
}}
'''Team Rodimus and the Scavengers reunite with former friends just in time to deal with a sparkeater attack orchestrated by Getaway.'''

==Synopsis==
[[Team Rodimus (G1)|Team Rodimus]] and the [[Scavengers (G1)|Scavengers]] watch as the mutinous crew of the ''[[Lost Light]]''—now somehow converted into [[sparkeater (creature)|sparkeaters]]—land on the surface of [[Mederi]] and start lumbering towards them. The group is unsure of the extent of the threat they pose, but quickly find out when [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]] approaches the sparkeater-[[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] and attempts to talk to him, only to be scorched by a stream of acid vomit from his former lab partner. [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]] tackles the wounded Brainstorm to safety, and the whole group transforms and beats retreat. As the sparkeaters give chase, [[Wipe-Out's ship|a small ship]] appears in the distance, heading right for the group; something drops from its underside, which [[Roller (IDW)|Roller]] initially thinks is a bomb... only for it to turn out to be [[Grimlock (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Grimlock]], who lands in the midst of the sparkeaters, stomping several of them flat. The former [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]] leader hacks the sparkeater-[[Mainframe (G1)|Mainframe]] to bits with his sword, prompting [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] to grab [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] and zap Grimlock with the Decepticon's guns, just enough to get his attention and stop him from killing any more of their afflicted fellow Autobots. A blast from the ship overhead scatters the remaining sparkeaters, and the craft sets down, revealing who else is on board: [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]], [[Riptide (G1)|Riptide]], [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]], and [[Wipe-Out]]. Explanations come thick and fast: after being separated from the Scavengers, Grimlock fought his way out of [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]'s [[Worldsweeper]] and ended up adrift in space, where his distress signal was picked up by First Aid, Riptide, and the injured Thunderclash after they escaped the ''Lost Light''. The group proceeded to travel to [[Troja Major]], where they repaired Thunderclash, left the [[Firstborn]] in the care of [[Agonizer|the Curator]], chartered a small [[Quantum generator|quantum-jump]]-capable ship from Wipe-Out, and set out in search of the ''Lost Light'' by following a homing beacon they hid on it. As [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]] and [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] bond over a love of puns, First Aid relates the atrocities [[Getaway]] has wrought in [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]]'s absence. Suddenly, just as Rodimus is making plans to search for the ''Lost Light'', a [[proton missile]] impacts nearby. Looking up to the source of the missile, the group sees that the ''Lost Light'' has arrived, now decorated with a huge symbol on its underside: the gear-like coat of arms of the [[Knights of Cybertron]]!

Aboard the ''Lost Light'', Getaway orders [[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]] to fire on the 'bots below again, but it turns out they've run out of missiles, having used up the rest recently battling the [[Phantom Fleet]]. As indicated by the symbol that has been added to the ship, Getaway has joined forces with the mysterious [[Adaptus|Grand Architect]], and worse yet, he is not the only familiar face on the Architect's side: so is Getaway's former captor, Chief Justice [[Solomus|Tyrest]]! Communicating via hologram, Tyrest accuses Getaway of playing with the Autobots and urges him to finish things quickly so the final stage of the Architect's plan can begin. Getaway denies it, but as he surveys the oil reservoir full of [[scraplet]]s, it's obvious that he has plans of his own...

Down below, the group watches as the ''Lost Light'' pulls back, disappearing into clouds that are rapidly darkening the sky. But there is no respite for our heroes, as a second wave of sparkeaters suddenly appears; [[Krok (G1)|Krok]] saves the surprised Rodimus by blasting the sparkeater-[[Slapdash (G1)|Slapdash]] to pieces, which angers [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]], but Krok won't apologize for saving Rodimus. Magnus instructs everyone to shoot to wound rather than kill, but sparkeater physiology makes it a tricky prospect—[[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]] does some heavy damage to [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]]; Thunderclash has to shoot [[Jackpot (G1)|Jackpot]] after he takes off one of Rung's arms with his acid vomit; but Grimlock has no angst to spare for mutineers and traitors. Realizing that Getaway ''wants'' him to get angry and lash out, Rodimus—inspired by [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]'s recent attempt to goad him into action, and much to his own chagrin—decides to calm down and think like [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], assembling a rational plan of action. He instructs most of the group to barricade themselves inside Ward Zero, luring the sparkeaters after them, while he, Magnus, Thunderclash, Roller, Grimlock, Whirl, [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]], [[Anode]], and [[Lug (IDW)|Lug]] wedge into Wipe-Out's ship, with Crankcase at the helm, and take off after the ''Lost Light''. Cyclonus, in particular, relishes a reunion with Getaway, intending to kill him ''slowly''.

Weaving through bolts of lightning, Crankcase pilots Wipe-Out's ship after the ''Lost Light'', and the group is able to enter the larger vessel via shuttle bay four, finding that there are no guards or shields up. It is, of course, all part of Getaway's plan; no sooner have they landed and disembarked than all the shields and blast doors in the bay start descending. Rodimus and Cyclonus are able to dart under one before it shuts, but the rest of the group is sealed in. Strategically placed charges in the ceiling detonate, bringing the contents of the room above—the oil reservoir—flooding down into the bay. Anode, in particular, is gripped with terror as the team find themselves facing the menace of the metal-munching scraplets, who have combined into a massive, tentacled monstrosity!

Rodimus and Cyclonus, meanwhile, make for the bridge of the ship, certain that Getaway is waiting for them. And he is... but what Rodimus has ''not'' expected is for Getaway to be flanked by Star Saber... and Scorponok!

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
{{{!}}border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background:transparent"
{{!}}-
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Velocity (G1)|Velocity]] (4)
* [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]] (5)
* [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]] (6)
* [[Chromedome (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Chromedome]] (7)
* [[Nautica (G1)|Nautica]] (9)
* [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] (10)
* [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] (11)
* [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] (12)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (13)
* [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] (16)
* [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] (17)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] (21)
* [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] (24)
* [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] (25)
* [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] (26)
* [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] (27)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (28)
* [[Mainframe (G1)|Mainframe]] (29)
* [[Grimlock (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Grimlock]] (30)
* [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] (31)
* [[Riptide (G1)|Riptide]] (32)
* [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]] (33)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Getaway]] (35)
* [[Slapdash (G1)|Slapdash]] (36)
* [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (37)
* [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (38)
* [[Jackpot (G1)|Jackpot]] (39)
* [[Crosscut (G1)|Crosscut]] (40)
* [[Xaaron]] (41)
* [[Powerflash]] (43)
{{!}}}

|c2=
* [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]] (2)
* [[Krok (G1)|Krok]] (3)
* [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] (8)
* [[Spinister (G1)|Spinister]] (14)
* [[Fulcrum]] (15)
* [[Nickel]] (19)
* [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] (46)

|c4=
* [[Roller (IDW)|Roller]] (1)
* [[Anode]] (18)
* ''[[Epistemus|Magnificence]]'' (20)
* [[Lug (IDW)|Lug]] (22)
* [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] (23)
* [[Wipe-Out]] (34)
* [[Solomus|Tyrest]] (42)
* Alien telepaths (44)
* [[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]] (45)
}}

==Quotes==
"Perceptor? Percy? It's Brainstorm—remember me? Your lab partner? Your one-time lab partner? 'Watch out you fool, the ceiling can't support your weight!' That guy."
:—'''Brainstorm''' tries to reach the sparkeater'd Perceptor

"'''Run,''' people! Threat level five! Emergency protocol five! Escape procedure fi—" 
"Five?" 
"'''Six''', actually!" 
"Pretty sure you were gonna say—" 
"'''Don't pretend you know the system!'''"
:—'''Ultra Magnus''' and '''Misfire'''

'''Misfire''': Grimsy! You're '''alive'''! 
'''Ultra Magnus''': Best to keep your distance, Decepticon. Grimlock has a tendency to— 
''(Misfire embraces Grimlock)'' 
'''Ultra Magnus''': —hug people? 
'''Rodimus''': Now that we've found Cyberutopia, we should go on a quest to explain '''this'''. 
'''Ultra Magnus:''' ...Grimlock's been missing for years. They probably found him, saved him—by accident, no doubt—and he feels protective towards them. You see? There's an explanation for everything. 
'''Misfire''': What did you do with the baby? 
'''Ultra Magnus''': ...Nothing makes sense anymore.
:—The Scavengers' weirdness officially tops Team Rodimus's weirdness.

"That's how I like my explanations. Hard, fast, and confusing." 
"Yeah, I used to be in [the] recap business, and that précis did '''not''' take any prisoners." 
"It was like being beaten to death with a '''Story So Far.'''" 
"A 'summary execution.'" 
"How come we've never met?" 
"The universe hates winners."
:—'''Misfire''' and '''Swerve''' bond

"What was it you said yesterday?" 
"You expect me to remember back that far? I can't even remember how this sentence started."
:—'''Rodimus''' and '''Whirl'''

"I don't care about Getaway. I care about '''you.'''"
:—'''Tailgate''', to Cyclonus

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* The "story so far" segment on the inside front cover is presented as a conversation between Swerve and Misfire, hearkening back to the old "Swerve recap" pages used in ''More than Meets the Eye'' between [[World, Shut Your Mouth Part 2: Words Hang in the Air|issue #29]] and [[The One Where They Go to Earth|#43]].
* Brainstorm's line (quoted above) about the ceiling not being able to hold his weight alludes to an unseen follow-up to a scene from way back in [[Rules of Disengagement (issue)|''More than Meets the Eye'' #7]], in which Brainstorm did science while suspending himself from the ceiling in an attempt to impress Perceptor.
* Brainstorm attempts to tell Perceptor that they are "simpatico", which he did before in [[Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|''More than Meets the Eye'' #24]].
* Grimlock and Scorponok were both last seen in [[Kill All 'Cons|issue #15]].
* Grimlock is less than happy to see Ultra Magnus; unsurprising, since Magnus was the one who arrested him way back in [[Maximum Dinobots issue 5|''Maximum Dinobots'' #5]].
* First Aid, Riptide, and Thunderclash were last seen escaping the ''Lost Light'' in [[The Plotters' Club (Part 3): Journey's End|issue #12]].
* Wipe-Out previously appeared in [[An Axe to Break the Ice|issues #8]]-[[Chasing the Infinite|9]].
* Star Saber references an off-panel encounter the ''Lost Light'' has had between issue #12 and this one with the "[[Phantom Fleet]]". This fleet was first mentioned in [[Dissolution Part 2: Anomie|issue #2]], explained to be a group of [[Worldsweeper]]-class ships that were lost in the [[Dark Nebula]] millions of years ago. The Grand Architect's use of Worldsweepers has been flagged up as anachronistic several times, always suggesting there was a connection...
* When the crew observes the change in weather, as the sky darkens and clouds roll in, First Aid notes that conditions were the same on Troja Major. We saw this weather in action there in issue #14, where it was said to be due to the "warping" of the "spiritual ley line" the planet sits on; it was noted last issue that Mederi sits on the same ley line.
* Whirl needled Rodimus into action by asking him "What Would Megatron Do?" back in [[The Everlasting Voices (1): Metastasis|issue #16]].
* Tyrest was last seen in [[Remain in Light 5 of 5: This Calamitous Life|''More than Meets the Eye'' #21]], when his attempt to reach Cyberutopia by killing every [[reproduction|cold-constructed]] Transformer in the universe was stopped by the crew. The [[The Sound of Breaking Glass|prose story]] published as a back-up in that issue revealed he went on to escape captivity via a teleporter.
* Tyrest notes that "Benzene has been cleared" as part of the Grand Architect's plans. The [[Benzene Cluster]] has been mentioned several times between [[The Plotters' Club (Part 1): Full Circle|issues #10]]-[[Sardines|13]]; in particular, issue #12 mentioned a mysterious party operating out of the cluster.
* Tyrest also says "the pathway has been sterilized", something [[Flame (Marvel)|Flame]] noted preparations were being made for back in issue #9.
* As we observed back in our notes for [[The Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks|issue #11]], the red scraplets have been on the ''Lost Light'' from the start, as alluded to by [[The Gloaming|''More than Meets the Eye'' #16]]. This issue finally reveals why; Drift explains that Brainstorm brought them on board, hoping he could train them to "eat temporal energy" to prevent his time-travel experiments being discovered. Though based on the Scraplets from [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|''Transformers: Prime'']], the Red Scraplets are here shown to possess the ability to combine into larger forms, like the Scraplets from the Marvel comic, and the different species previously seen in IDW continuity in the [[The Transformers Holiday Special|2015 ''Holiday Special'']], an ability the ''Prime'' Scraplets never displayed.

===Errors===
[[File:LL19 vehicle modes.jpg|thumb|upright=1.33]]
* Well, doesn't look like anyone provided E. J. Su with reference material for the crew's vehicle mode looks from past issues of the comic,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I apologize for inconsistencies with alternate modes. Truth be told I havent kept up with TF over the years, there are 20 some characters in the book I had to research on, only one that I have drawn in past. Not a good excuse, but I did the best I can.|link=https://twitter.com/ejsu28/status/1008256077215903744|name=E. J. Su|site=Twitter|year=2018|month=06|day=17|(defunct=)}}</ref> because Chromedome turns into his ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' [[Chromedome (G1)#Generations|toy]] (itself based on his [[:File:MTMTE9 early Chromedome.jpg|Shadowplay"-era body]], in contrast with his modern body), Ratchet turns into his ''[[Transformers: Prime (toyline)|Transformers: Prime]]'' [[Ratchet (G1)/toys#Prime|toy]], and... ''sigh''... Rodimus and Drift turn into the vehicle modes of [[IP infringement|unofficial "third party" toys]] based on their comic book designs.
* In his part of the "story so far", Misfire mentions "an'''d''' army" rather than "an army".
* Not necessarily an error, but on page 6 when First Aid says "Funeral towns are great '''for''' spare parts", it seems odd to emphasise the word "for".
* On the same page, the medic symbol on First Aid's shoulder is drawn the wrong way, the right horizontal piece of the cross should be flipped upside-down.
* On page 7, Swerve says "I used to be in recap business", which should probably be "I used to be in ''the'' recap business". This was corrected for the trade paperback.
* There are two typos on page 9: "mobilze" instead of "mobilize" in the first panel and "make is" instead of "make it" in the third panel. Both were corrected for the trade paperback.
* It might not strictly be an error, but the timings really don't match up between the Scavengers and Grimlock and their different journeys after splitting on the Worldsweeper. Grimlock has managed to fight his way out of the Worldsweeper; get picked up; fly to Troja Major; meet and hire Wipe-Out; tool up with a massive arsenal and fly to Mederi. In the same amount of time, the Scavengers only managed to arrive (instantaneously) at Mederi, spend a few minutes bickering in a cell, and run into Nautica. Huh.

===Other trivia===
* Originally solicited for release in early June 2018, as the first of ''two'' issues of ''Lost Light'' that were supposed to be released that month, this issue arrived late, in the first week of July.

===Soundtrack===
TBC

===Covers (3)===
* '''Cover A:''' Whirl, Magnus, Rodimus, Brainstorm, Anode, and Lug aim their weapons, by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]]
* '''Cover B:''' Inferno, Blaster, Bluestreak, Hound, Brawn, and Huffer aim their weapons, by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]]; a companion piece to Cover A
* '''Retailer incentive cover:''' Roche's black and white lineart from Cover A

<gallery>
File:LL19 cvrA.jpg|Team Rodimus
File:LL19 cvrB.jpg|vs. the Mutineers
File:LL19 cvrRI.jpg|and the loser is the colors
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* ''Lost Light'' #20
* ''[[Transformers: Unicron]]''
* ''[[Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers]]''
* ''{{i|Jem and the Holograms: Dimensions}}'' TPB
* ''Atomic Robo: The Spectre of Tomorrow'' TPB
* ''Ghostbusters: Answer the Call'' TPB
* ''The Infinite Loop: Nothing But the Truth'' TPB
* ''Full Bleed'' comics and culture magazine
* ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]] Adventures'' Vol. 3 TPB

===Reprints===
* '''''Transformers: Lost Light Volume 4''''' ([[January 30]], [[2019]]) ISBN 1684054109 / ISBN 978-1684054107
** Collects ''Lost Light'' issues #19–25.
** Bonus material includes a cover gallery.
** Trade paperback format.

* '''''[[Transformers: The Definitive G1 Collection]] Volume 87: Crucible''''' ([[July 29]], [[2020]])
** Collects ''Lost Light'' issues #19–24.
** Bonus material includes the second half of ''[[Transformers: Historia]]'', including the [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] profile, a cover gallery and an intro by [[Simon Furman]].
** Hardcover format.

<gallery>
File:LLvol4 TPBcvr.jpg|'''''Lost Light Volume 4''''' – cover art by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]]
File:DefinitiveG1Collection v87.jpg|'''''The Definitive G1 Collection Volume 87: Crucible''''' – cover art by [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]], [[Casey Coller]] and [[Tom B. Long]]
</gallery>

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [https://www.comiccrusaders.com/exclusive-preview-transformers-lost-light-19/ Preview]

[[Category:Lost Light issues]]

Transformers (2023) issue 8

2024-08-06T19:20:54Z

Thunderwave: /* Other trivia */ Added trivia from DWJ's guest appearance on the Triple Takeover podcast

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[Transformers (2023 comic)|Transformers]]'' #8
|prev=Transformers (2023) issue 7
|prev2=Transformers Energon Universe Special story
|next=Transformers (2023) issue 9
|image=Transformers 2023 8 Cover A.jpg
|caption=
|title=
|publisher=[[Image Comics]] [[Skybound Entertainment]]
|date=[[May 8]], [[2024]]
|coverdate=May 2024
|written by=[[Daniel Warren Johnson]]
|art by=[[Jorge Corona]]
|colors by=[[Mike Spicer]]
|letters by=[[Rus Wooton]]
|editor=[[Ben Abernathy]]
|continuity=[[Energon Universe]]
|chronology=
}}

'''As the Autobots ready themselves to go on the offensive, Soundwave begins a plan to bring Earth under Decepticon rule!'''

==Synopsis==
[[Carly (G1)|Carly]] brings [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] to a lake outside [[Farmingham]], thinking it will help his recovery to get some fresh air. When she asks how he feels, Spike tells her he doesn't feel ''anything''. Carly says that with the world changing, they have to protect themselves. [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] joins them, even offering them colas, but Carly is still angry at him for not killing [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], feeling like she can't trust him anymore. She storms off, leaving Spike to comfort a dejected Cliff.

On [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] carries the mangled body of a delirious [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] through the fortress, looking for an exit. Having experienced over a hundred fifty years of torture, Magnus begs Elita to kill him. Elita apologizes for taking so long to find him and assures him that she won't let him go again, but ultimately promises to follow Magnus's order—for both of them—if they are captured.

In the [[Pacific Ocean]], [[USS Henry Harrison|U.S.S. ''Henry Harrison'']] makes its way towards [[Washington (state)|Washington]] when [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] and [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] attack. Thundercracker pities the humans, and when the Captain begs for his life, he begins to let them go. Soundwave points out that while they pose no threat to them, they will likely inform their superiors about their attack, and thus they cannot be allowed to go free. He blasts the humans fleeing on lifeboats.

On the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] is still trying to use [[Teletraan I|Teletraan One]] despite the interference of [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]], whose fusion with the computer gives him more control over it and whom Wheeljack can't remove without compromising what remains of Teletraan. Optimus pities the Seeker for what his fellow [[Decepticon]]s did to him, especially after seeing a video log of him getting ripped apart. However, Carly enters carrying a missile launcher, planning to kill what remains of Skywarp. Optimus tries to talk her down, but her finger slips on the trigger, sending the missile headed towards the computer. However, [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] takes the shot, saving Teletraan and Skywarp, much to Carly's distress. Grateful to be saved, Skywarp uses Teletraan to fix Wheeljack's legs. Optimus tries to use this as a teaching moment for Carly, but she's not having any of it and storms off to her van. Arcee follows after her, and Carly apologizes. Carly admits that she’s confused why the [[Autobot]]s don't act like the giant badass robots she sees, but Arcee reveals that before Optimus brought them together, they were all scattered and lost. She tells Carly that while Optimus tries to hide it, his losses are greater than anyone's.

Later, Optimus awakens from a dream where he sees himself with a human child as the boy grows through the years. He questions what these visions mean, but is soon distracted by the newly-awoken [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]], whom [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] was able to save from death, but unfortunately, he is now [[Transformation paralysis|mode locked]] and blind, much to Jetfire's horror. Optimus apologizes, trying to justify it as an allocation of resources, but when he turns to leave, Jetfire begs him to stay, not wanting to be left alone in the darkness. Optimus agrees to sit with him awhile.

[[File:TF2023 no. 8 - Nemesis Underwater.jpg|200px|thumb|left]]

Having sunk the ''Henry Harrison'', Soundwave and Thundercracker follow it down to the sea floor, where the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] have been unearthing the key to Soundwave's ultimate plan: the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'', the ship which brought the Decepticons to Earth all those years ago! As the Decepticons work to repair the ship, they hear a loud banging coming from inside the ship's brig. Soundwave orders the Decepticons open it, much to their trepidation, saying they need all the help they can get. As the doors open, an enraged [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] tears through them, demanding to know where [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] is. As he tears through the smaller Decepticon warriors, Soundwave tries to get him to calm down, saying that they don't know where Megatron is now, but promising to give him to Astrotrain when they find him.

Back at the ''Ark'', Wheeljack detects the activation of the ''Nemesis''. Optimus orders the Autobots to board Jetfire so that they might finally take the fight to their enemy. Carly insists on coming, but Optimus refuses, telling her she isn't a warrior. Arcee offers to take Carly on as her [[iron apprentice]]—a sacred bond between (typically) an older and younger Cybertronian that marks the beginning of a [[clan]], and the same relationship Ultra Magnus had with Arcee many years ago. Optimus reluctantly agrees, but orders them to instead stay at the Ark with Wheeljack to defend their home and watch over Spike as the rest of the Autobots depart in Jetfire.

On the ''Nemesis'', Thundercracker asks when the ship will take to the skies, but Soundwave reports that that will require too much [[energon]]. What they really need is the ship's antennae, which will allow them to finally call for reinforcements. Soundwave activates the monitor on the ship's bridge, and the image of [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] appears.
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] (3)
* [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]]? (4, see "Continuity notes" below)
* [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (5)
* [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] (6)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (7)
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (12)
* [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (13)
* [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (18)
* [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] (21)

|c2=
* [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (10)
* [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (11)
* [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] (14)
* [[Scrapper (G1)|Scrapper]] (15)
* [[Hook (G1)|Hook]] (16)
* [[Bonecrusher (G1)|Bonecrusher]] (17)
* [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] (20)
* [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] (22)

|c3=
* [[Carly (G1)|Carly]] (1)
* [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (2)
* Captain of the ''Henry Harrison'' (8)
* "[[Skip (EU)|Skip]]" (9)

|c4=
* [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] (19)
}}

==Quotes==
"That's why we have to protect ourselves, Spike. And we've got big metal warriors now. They can help us get the ones who killed our dads!" 
"But...my dad ''wasn't'' killed. He gave himself up for those robots, I can't help but think of how he disappeared. No body, no ashes, just ''gone''. Just like Jimmy. I didn't realize how much I needed him until he went away. I didn't know how bad it could get until now..." 
:—'''Carly''' and '''Spike''' discuss their reactions to their respective fathers deaths

"I don't get it. You're all huge and powerful! Total badasses. How come you don't '''act''' like it?" 
"We weren't always like this. We were scattered and lost before the war started on our planet. Optimus brought us together. He desires peace above all else." 
"Easy for '''him''' to say." 
"He doesn't speak of it often, but believe me-- His losses could fill a chasm."
:—'''Carly''' struggles to believe '''Arcee''' and the Autobots aren't warriors

"I... had to use what was left at my disposal. We needed a way to travel around this world in order to save it." 
"Is that what I am to you now? A '''husk?''' I cannot move. Everything is... black. I cannot see the '''stars''' anymore."
:—'''Optimus''' faces the repercussions of bringing '''Jetfire''' back to life

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* Hidden in the shadows on the first page is a bot whose few identifying features look suspiciously similar to [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]], who was previously seen getting shot in a flashback to Cybertron in [[Transformers (2023) issue 2|issue #2]]. What is he doing here?
* Carly mentions that Starscream killed Bumblebee back in [[Transformers (2023) issue 1|issue #1]].
* Cliffjumper’s refusal to kill Starscream occurred in [[Transformers (2023) issue 6|issue #6]].
* Wheeljack has been operating as only a torso since he was revived in [[Transformers (2023) issue 4|issues #4]].
* Skywarp getting torn apart to repair Teletraan One happened in issues #4 and [[Transformers (2023) issue 5|#5]].
* The Decepticons might not know where Megatron is, but readers who picked up the [[Energon Universe Special 2024]] certainly do.
* Arcee's relationship with Ultra Magnus was first glimpsed [[Transformers (2023) issue 7|last issue]].
* Clans were first mentioned back in [[Transformers (2023) issue 3|issue #3]].
* After previously appearing in ''[[Void Rivals]]'' [[Void Rivals issue 4|#4]] and being alluded to last issue, Shockwave finally makes his first appearance in the ''Transformers'' title proper.

===''Transformers'' references===
* Introduced in this issue is the ''Nemesis'', the classic Decepticon flagship seen in both the original [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comic]]. Its name and fate - crashed and at the bottom of the ocean - first appeared in the ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' finale two-parter, "[[Nemesis Part 1|Nemesis]]".
* The Decepticons operating out of a crashed spaceship at the bottom of the ocean is yet another element pulled from the Generation 1 cartoon. However, it should be noted that, while the ''Nemesis'' was depicted as crashing into the ocean in the aforementioned ''Beast Wars'' episode, the Decepticon headquarters of the Generation 1 cartoon was actually a different ship, the ''[[Victory (G1)|Victory]]''.

===Real-world references===
* While the colas go unbranded, they are colored with red packaging of {{w|Coca-Cola}}.

===Errors===
* The establishing caption for the U.S.S. ''Henry Harrison'' again misspells the name as ''Henry Harrisson''.

===Other trivia===
* It is confirmed in the fan mail section that Frenzy (the [[FIRRIB|red one]] in this continuity) perished during the dam battle in Issue #5.
* Initially, DWJ had intended for Jetfire to be dead with the Autobots using his lifeless body for transportation. Hasbro, however, deemed it "too morbid" and wanted him to remain alive. Yeah, that ''definitely'' worked. Even DWJ himself was disturbed! <ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is a thing that Hasbro asked for, actually. [...] I really needed a way for the Autobots to get around, 'cause none of them can fly [...] I was like 'Okay they'll use like, the transformed mode of Jetfire.' [...] But Hasbro was like 'We don't- It's too morbid, we don't want like, the husk of Jetfire to be travelling around with the Autobots.' [...] And then I had to write him being ''alive''. [...] I wrote it and I was like 'Oh my god, this is so f-ed up!' |link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gf3prR5PK0&t=2970s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRIPLE TAKEOVER | #81: Skybound Transformers (featuring Daniel Warren Johnson)|year=2024|month=06|day=10}}</ref>

===Covers===
* '''Cover A:''' Elita One, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover B:''' Thundercracker attacks the ''Henry Harrison'', by Jorge Corona and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover C (1:10 Copy Incentive):''' Connecting cover, by [[Karen S. Darboe]].
* '''Cover D (1:25 Copy Incentive):''' Astrotrain, by [[Ethan Young]].
* '''Cover E (1:50 Copy Incentive):''' The ''Nemesis'' in the sky over Optimus Prime, by [[Paul Azaceta]].

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 8 Cover A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 8 Cover B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 8 Cover C.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 8 Cover D.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 8 Cover E.jpg|
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* 5-page preview of ''[[Scarlett (comic)|Scarlett]]'' [[Scarlett issue 1|#1]].

===Reprints===
* '''''Transformers Volume 2: Transport to Oblivion''''' ([[November 27]], [[2024]]) ISBN 1534345272 / ISBN 978-1534345270 
** Collects issues #7–12.
** Trade paperback format.

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 V2.jpg|'''''Volume 2: Transport to Oblivion''''' – cover art by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer
</gallery>

==External links==
*

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) issues]]

Before & After

2024-07-16T01:25:06Z

Thunderwave: /* Errors */

{{Comicstory|
|series=mtmte|issueno=12
|prev=Shadowplay (Conclusion): An Intimate Beheading
|next=More than Meets the Eye issue 13
|caption=Call me crazy, but I think it's a bomb...
|image=MTMTE12_cvrA.jpg
|title="Before & After"
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[December 19]], [[2012]]
|coverdate=December 2012
|story by=[[James Roberts]]
|pencils by=[[Alex Milne]] (before) [[Brendan Cahill]] (after)
|inks by=[[Atilio Rojo]] with Alex Milne (before) [[Brian Shearer]] (after)
|colors by=[[Josh Burcham]]
|letters by=[[Tom B. Long]]
|editor=[[John Barber]]
|continuity=[[2005 IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[2005 IDW timeline|Current era (2012)]]
}}
'''In the wake of a battle with the Decepticons on the planet Temptoria, Rewind lies at death's door and Chromedome is pushed to the edge.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Mtmte-before-and-after-whirl-weaponup.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2]]
''Before... Aboard the scout ship ''[[Leading Light]]'', a shuttle of the ''[[Lost Light]]'', the rambunctious, fight-hungry 'bots in the craft's fore section are led in a war-chant by [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]], and have to be silenced by [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] so he can deliver their mission briefing: they are heading for the planet [[Temptoria]], current home to a group of Decepticons they suspect of kidnapping the [[Circle of Light]]. Around the ship, [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] and [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] employ "[[Rung (G1)|Rungian]] Re-Experience Therapy", going to their "happy places" to calm themselves before battle; [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] and [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] discuss [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]]'s appointment in the stead of the wounded [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]; [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] compliments [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] on his new leg-guns; and [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] and [[Chromedome (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Chromedome]] argue over a promise Rewind has broken. Before that particular argument can get going, Whirl barges into the rear section and calls for Rewind to accompany him on the front lines to take footage.''

''In "the [[Battery]]", the Decepticon base down on Temptoria, [[Blip]] responds to a summons from [[Nautilator]], but finds himself more interested in the fact that the [[Seacon (G1)|Seacon]] sounds exactly like [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]. When Nautilator finally gets him to pay attention to the security monitor, he sees that the Autobots are air-dropping out of the ''Leading Light'' right on top of them! A ferocious battle soon erupts; while Rodimus and Drift squabble over who gets to take on which 'cons, Tailgate and Swerve head off to sneak into the enemy base, though Tailgate delays a moment to marvel at Ultra Magnus's fighting prowess.''

After... The Autobots return to the ''Lost Light'', but the battle is not without victims: twenty-one crew-members have been gravely injured, including "massive contributors to the Autobot cause" [[Spoke]] and [[Lockstock]]... and Rewind. A panicked Chromedome tries to ask Swerve what happened, but discovers the little 'bot has had his face blown off. [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] rushes Rewind to the medibay where his [[spark]] is diagnosed to be rapidly fading. As Rewind's [[Conjunx Endura]], Chromedome is given the option of using First Aid's spark-jumpstarting procedure to save him—an easy choice to make, and with his spark a match for Rewind's rare type, he volunteers for the process himself. Just before they begin, Tailgate bursts in, dragging the wounded [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] behind him, begging for help.

[[File:Before&After Shoomer.jpg|thumb]]
''While the other members of their team handle the fighting, Rewind and Tailgate search the Battery for the Circle of Light, and discover that the Decepticons have captured not them, but the native organic Temptorians, and are somehow [[pink alchemy|converting them into fuel]]. A bomb is wired to the door of their cell, which Tailgate sets to work disarming while Rewind films; when Rewind asks what he is going to do, Tailgate calls upon him to hypothesize what the correct procedure would be, then proceeds to carry it out exactly as he describes. Whirl, Cyclonus and Swerve keep the Decepticons at bay just outside... although Swerve'' does ''manage to shoot himself in the face when Whirl tosses him [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]]'s newest weapon, the [[Shoomer]].''

The jumpstart procedure complete, Chromedome waits with Tailgate outside the medibay. After Chromedome explains that the little vials left in the bay are symbolic offerings of [[innermost energon]] from the crew for Rewind, Tailgate is prompted to ask how the pair met. A little reluctantly at first, Chromedome relates Rewind's history: he was a member of the "[[disposable class]]" in the days of functionism, and was recruited to work as a data receptacle by campaigner [[Dominus Ambus]]. Rewind became friends with his new employer (whose list of achievements prompts Tailgate to take an immediate dislike to him), who was moved to fight for Disposables' rights, and accompanied him on a quest for [[Moonbase One|Luna-1]], only returning to Cybertron after the war had broken out. After some time, Dominus disappeared and Rewind began searching [[Relinquishment Clinic]]s—since repurposed as assisted suicide facilities—in hopes of discovering his friend's fate. It was in such a clinic that he met Chromedome, who was seeking death to escape the war, and together, the pair gave each other something to live for. But Rewind has never given up his search for Dominus—this is the reason for his hoarding of "snuff movies", and why he has broken his promise to Chromedome to stop entering danger zones. Tailgate argues that perhaps Rewind only goes into battle to be beside Chromedome, but then, First Aid emerges with bad news: Chromedome's own weak spark means the process has not worked.

The call goes out for other donors to save Rewind while Chromedome goes to his quarters in a grief-filled haze. As he sits in silence, [[Drift (G1)|a voice]] calls to him through the door... a voice that tells him it has discovered a way to wipe out the Decepticons and stop what happened to Rewind from ever happening again... an answer that lies in [[Overlord (G1)|the basement]]. Suddenly, First Aid calls Chromedome on his comm and summons him to the medibay: Whirl has proven to have a compatible spark and has saved Rewind's life. On the other side of the bay, Tailgate is about to leave some of his innermost energon for Cyclonus when he suddenly awakens and knocks the vial from Tailgate's hand, shattering it. Cyclonus mocks the small 'bot for believing they share a bond, but upon noticing how many offerings have been left for Rewind by the others, while none were left for him, he silently kneels to help Tailgate pick up the pieces of glass.

''After Whirl and Cyclonus finish off the remaining Decepticons, Whirl compliments Cyclonus on his fighting ability, and suggests they become friends and put that whole "death threat" business behind them. Cyclonus is not interested and reiterates his intent to kill Whirl some day, at which point Rewind calls for their aid: Tailgate has triggered a timer on the bomb, but refuses to leave until he can drain the explosives so the blast won't reach the prisoners. Cyclonus seizes his diminutive contemporary and hurls him out of the chamber to safety, only to be trapped inside as Whirl surreptitiously presses the lock button in order to take out his would-be killer. Rewind is trapped inside with Cyclonus, but at the last second, just before the bomb detonates, Cyclonus throws himself in front of the archivist, shielding him.''

==Featured characters==
(Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks.) 
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
{{{!}}border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background:transparent"
{{!}}-
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Powerflash]] (1)
* [[Sureshot (G1)|Sureshot]] (2)
* [[Dogfight (G1)|Dogfight]] (3)
* [[Skids (G1)|Skids]] (4)
* [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] (5)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (6)
* [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] (7)
* [[Atomizer]] (8)
* [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (9)
* [[Sunstreaker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Sunstreaker]] (10)
* [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]] (11)
* [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] (12)
* [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] (14)
* [[Chromedome (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Chromedome]] (15)
* [[Ambulon]] (16)
* [[Xaaron]] (17)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] (18)
* [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] (20)
* [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] (21)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (22)
* [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (23)
* [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] (24)
* [[Fizzle]] (27)
* [[Strafe (G1)|Strafe]] (28)
* [[Rollout (G1)|Rollout]] (29)
* [[Dipstick]] (30)
* Little generic's head (33)
* [[Pincher (G1)|Pincher]] (35)
* [[Crosshairs (G1)|Crosshairs]]'s fist (38)
* [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] (43)
* [[Steeljaw (G1)|Steeljaw]] (47)
{{!}}}
|c2=
* [[Blip]] (25)
* [[Nautilator]] (26)
* [[Snapdragon (G1)|Snapdragon]] (31)
* [[Rage (G1)|Rage]] (32)
* [[Bulletbike (G2)|Bulletbike]] (34)
* Sureshot's generic victim (36)
* [[Seawing (G1)|Seawing]] (37)
* [[Hun-Gurrr (G1)|Hun-Gar]] (39)
* [[Slugfest (G1)|Slugfest]] (40)
* [[Turbo Master]] (41)
* [[Tailwind (G1)|Tailwind]] (42)
* [[Tentakil (G1)|Tentakil]] (44)
* [[Snaptrap (G1)|Snap Trap]] (45)
* [[Overkill (G1)|Overkill]] (46)
|c4=
* [[Cyclonus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Cyclonus]] (13)
* [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] (19)
* ''[[Flip Sides (G1)|Flip Sides]]'' (48)
* ''[[Rosanna (KP)|Rosanna]]'' (49)
* ''[[Dominus Ambus]]'' (50)
}}

==Quotes==
"Ultra Magnus informs me that running through the ''Lost Light'' shouting 'Who's up for a fight?' doesn't '''technically''' qualify as a 'briefing.'"
:—'''Rodimus'''

"I'm '''Nautilator''', by the way, one of '''Snap Trap''''s crew. I thought you'd want to see this." 
"Woah. Say that again." 
"What?" 
"You sound '''exactly''' like Megatron." 
"Everyone says that, but I really think you should look at the '''monitor'''." 
"'''Ha!''' Brilliant. Is that your actual voice? Say, ''um'', you know—something something '''tyranny.'''"
:—'''Nautilator''' and '''Blip'''

"D'you mind if I film this? If I die, I don't want my last recorded footage to be of Whirl punching himself in the face to prove he's ''''super-unvincible.''''"
:—'''Rewind'''

"The day I snuggle up to a bomb and '''don't''' fear for my life is the day I get '''sloppy'''."
:—'''Tailgate''', eyes flashing with panic as he sets to work.

"Please! I surrender! Don't shoot!" 
"That is un'''canny'''! Has anyone ever—?" 
"Megatron, yes, I know! Just '''don't shoot!'''" 
"Okay, you be Megatron, I'll be Prime. "You who are without mercy, now plead for it?" Wait wait wait. Try again: "You who are without—" Not '''deep''' enough. "You who are—" How can anyone's voice '''be''' that low? Ah, frag it."
:—'''Nautilator''' and '''Whirl''', just before Whirl shoots Nautilator in the head.

"I'll admit I've made no real '''effort''' to understand the '''warped moral code''' by which you live your '''atrocity''' of a life, but I assume you think that by helping me fight a common foe you've atoned for past sins. You're wrong. There's no '''before''' or '''after''' to our 'relationship': I'm still going to kill you. All that changes is the manner of your death, which becomes more elaborate and protracted by the day."
:—'''Cyclonus''', to Whirl

==Notes==

===Continuity notes===
* Magnus was seen returning from his reconnaissance mission in [[Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|issue #10]]. Now we know where he went!
* Tailgate claims that, when in the [[Primal Vanguard]], he fought and killed organics. While immediately a bit jarring for such a naive, innocent little guy, it's been established for a while now that the Vanguard were [[Nova Prime]]'s off-world army, and given his [[expansion]] ideals, it shouldn't really come as any surprise that this is what they were up to for all those years.
* Judging from the 'bots present, Tailgate's "happy place" would appear to specifically be the "movie night" he attended in [[Scavengers (Part 2): Who's Afraid of the DJD?|issue #8]].
* Trailbreaker has added guns to his legs in emulation of [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]], after drunkenly grumbling about the latter's legs back in [[Interiors|issue #6]].
* Blip was previously mentioned by Ultra Magnus as a Decepticon who thought he was a [[sparkeater (creature)|Sparkeater]] in [[Liars, A to D Part 3: The Chaos of Warm Things|issue #3]]. His slobbering monster [[alternate mode]] certainly helps sell his delusion, and explains why Nautilator confuses him with [[Blot (G1)|Blot]], who's also a filthy beast.
* While the Terrorcon leader has had his name spelled quite a few ways across various Transformers stories at this point, "Hun-Gar" is a new one. He was "Hun-Grrr" in his only named IDW appearance before now, in ''[[Spotlight: Sixshot]]''.
* One of the Decepticons in this issue is [[Tailwind (G1)|Tailwind]], who is usually a [[Micromaster]]. A Gorlamite appearing to be Tailwind appeared back in ''[[Spotlight: Hardhead]]'', but at the time this wiki hadn't documented that appearance, which [[Circular reporting|presumably led]] Roberts to consider him fair game!
* On page 5, we see Pipes unconscious on the ground, apparently one of those Autobots injured in the fighting. This is the latest incident in his streak of bad luck that began in issue #4 (brought down by plague) and continued in issue #6 (gunned down by Fortress Maximus).
* Chromedome off-handedly mentions Rewind is "allergic" to ultraviolet light, the only known way to illuminate neuro-surgery insertion scars. But hey, that's probably a coincidence.
* The footnote regarding the conversion of organics into energon points readers to the deluxe hardback edition of ''[[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|Last Stand of the Wreckers]]''; specifically, the process was seen in the short story included in that tome, "[[Escape (G1)|Escape]]".
* The substance [[propex]] was previously mentioned in "Shadowplay". There, "propex conduits" were blamed for some explosions.
* The nature of innermost energon is expanded upon after passing mentions in issues [[Liars, A to D Part 3: The Chaos of Warm Things|
#3]], [[Rules of Disengagement (issue)|#7]], and [[Scavengers (Part 2): Who's Afraid of the DJD?|#8]].
* Dominus Ambus was mentioned by [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] in ''[[Omega's Conundrum|Spotlight: Orion Pax]]''.
* The disease cybercrosis was previously mentioned by Swerve in the [[Primus: You, Me, and Other Revelations|2012 Annual]].
* At this point, quite a few characters have mentioned seeking the missing [[Moonbase One|Luna 1]], intimating that many searches for it have taken place. We get a little bit of a reason for that with this issue, in that the moon lies at the centre of romanticized legend. We also find out that it's the same thing as the "Seething Moon", something included in a list of non-existent folk legends by Trailbreaker in issue #3.
* A relinquishment clinic was heavily implied to have played a role in Chromedome and Rewind's first meeting back in issue #6; we get the full story here.
* Rewind's "snuff movies" were introduced in issue #6.
* Tailgate's innermost energon is green, rather than the pink seen in all the other offerings. Although this gives it a resemblance to the propex Tailgate was seen draining earlier in the issue, James Roberts confirmed<ref>http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=325247&highlight=#325247 Post on the IDW Publishing Forums</ref> that it was his real energon being decanted.

===Transformers references===
* When Blip asks Nautilator to say "something something tyranny", he is evidently trying to recall Megatron's motto: "Peace through tyranny."
* The Decepticon base on Temptoria has [[Energon Driller]]s from ''[[Transformers: Prime (franchise)|Transformers: Prime]]'' stationed outside.
* Tailgate identifies the bomb as a "C-61"; this was the [[List of Japanese ID numbers|Japanese ID number]] of Tailgate's Generation 1 toy. Further, he recalls the bomb's progenitor, the "C-12S"; "12" was the ID number of [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]]'s toy, which was [[retool]]ed to create Tailgate's.
* In attempting his Optimus Prime impression, as transcribed above, Whirl is, of course, quoting from Prime and Megatron's famous exchange from ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''.

===Real world references===
* Whirl's upcoming film, ''Harder, Faster, Wrecker'', is presumably a reference to the 2001 {{w|Daft Punk}} song, "{{w|Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger}}".

===Trivia===
* The bomb Tailgate is studying on Cover A matches the alt modes of [[K-Class]] Decepticons seen in [[Scavengers (Part 2): Who's Afraid of the DJD?|issue #8]]. This, coupled with a solicitation for the issue that mentioned "a band of rogue Decepticons", led pretty much the entire fandom to the conclusion that the ''Lost Light'' crew would be meeting [[Fulcrum]] and the [[Scavengers (G1)|Scavengers]]. Whoops!
* Also, in an amusing little bit of foreshadowing of what will happen, the bomb Tailgate is examining on Cover A has the words "Keep Out of Reach of Small Bots" scrawled on the side of it.
* The transition from page 4 to page 5 makes a semantic juxtaposition of the phrases, "It's raining Autobots" and "Autobot down!"
* If you hadn't ''got'' Chromedome and Rewind's relationship from the rest of the issue, note that "Conjunx"—from "Conjunx Endura", the Transformer term for "significant other"—is Latin for "spouse". Not Roberts's [[Empurata|first use]] of Latin wordplay!

===Crew manifest===
* 21 crew members are seriously injured, but with no fatalities as of yet.
* 5 deaths, 5 new arrivals (plus 20 or so Faders) and 1 boxed since the launch.
* A number of Decepticons — those "too dumb to run" — are incarcerated in the ship's brig.

===Errors===
* Temptoria's capital is spelled differently the two times it's mentioned: "Sensensica" (page 2, panel 2) and "Sensenica" (page 4, panel 1). In the TPB the latter was corrected to Sensensica.
* On page 15, panel 2, "Cybertronian" is misspelled "Cybetronian". This was also corrected in the TPB.
* On page 1, panel 1, Ambulon's eyes are colored blue instead of yellow.
* On the very last page, panel 3, Cyclonus' fingertips are colored green.

===Soundtrack===
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw27WpM8AxY "Airbag"] by {{w|Radiohead}}
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZnS2cNJhc "Prelude for Time Feelers"] by {{w|Eluvium (musician)|Eluvium}}

===Foreign localization===
'''Japanese'''
* ''Title:'' "'''Before & After'''" (ビフォア＆アフター ''Befoa ando Afutā'')

'''Swedish'''
* ''Title:'' "'''Före & efter'''" ("Before & After")

===Covers (3)===
* '''Cover A:''' Tailgate looks over a Decepticon bomb, by [[Alex Milne]] and [[Josh Perez]]
* '''Cover B:''' Ultra Magnus and Rodimus under fire, by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]]
* '''Cover RI:''' The assembled crew of the ''Lost Light'', by [[Casey Coller]] and [[Joana Lafuente]], in homage to the cover of the [[Fab Four|Beatles]] album, ''{{w|Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band}}''. Part of a theme month along with [[City on Fire|''Robots in Disguise'' #12]], which also features an incentive cover based on a famous album.

<gallery>
File:MTMTE12_cvrA.jpg|It's a bo... Not a bah, a bomb!
File:MTMTE12_cvrB.jpg|Who did Rodimus piss off now?
File:MTMTE12_cvrRI.jpg|The ''[[Lost Light]]'' class of 2012.
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[City on Fire|#13]]
* ''[[The Transformers: Spotlight|Spotlight:]] [[The Hunting Party (IDW)|Thundercracker]]''
* IDW Limited
* ''[[Doctor Who]]: Prisoners of Time'' (back cover)

===Reprints===
* '''''The Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye Volume 4''''' ([[July 17]], [[2013]]) ISBN 1613776918 / ISBN 978-1613776919 
** Collects ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #12–16.
** Bonus material includes art from most covers, and the prose story "[[Signal to Noise]]".
** Trade paperback format.

* '''''Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye Box Set''''' ([[December 2]], [[2015]]) ISBN 1631404741 / ISBN 978-1631404740
** Collects ''More Than Meets the Eye'' volumes 1–5.
** Bonus material unknown at this time.

* '''''[[The Transformers: The IDW Collection Phase Two: Volume 3]]''''' ([[February 24]], [[2016]]) ISBN 1631405403 / ISBN 978-1631405402
** Collects ''[[The Transformers: Spotlight|Spotlight]]: [[The Hunting Party (IDW)|Thundercracker]], [[The Question|Bumblebee]]'' & ''[[Spotlight: Megatron|Megatron]]'', ''More than Meets the Eye'' Annual 2012, issues #9–11 & #12–13 & "[[Signal to Noise]]", and ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Primus: All Good Things|Annual 2012]] & issues [[Syndromica (2)|#10]]–[[The End of the Beginning of the World|11]].
** Bonus material unknown at this time.
** Hardcover format.

* '''''[[Transformers: The Definitive G1 Collection]]: Volume 55: Shadowplay''''' ([[January 9]], [[2019]])
** Collects ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #7–13 and Annual 2012.
** Bonus material includes the second of a new three-part interview with Roberts, early pages of scripts, design sketches from Alex Milne, a cover gallery and a forward by Simon Furman.
** Hardcover format.

* '''''Transformers: Kaos och skuggor''''' ([[November]], [[2020]])
** Collects [[The Transformers (IDW)|''The Transformers'' (2009)]] issues [[Chaos Theory Part 1|#22]]–[[Chaos Part One: Lamentations|24]], [[Chaos Part Two: Numbers|#26]], [[Chaos Part Three: Kings|#28]] & [[Chaos Part Four: Genesis|#30]], ''[[Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime|The Death of Optimus Prime]]'', and ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #9–13.
** Hardcover format.

<gallery>
File:MTMTE vol4.jpg|'''''More than Meets the Eye Volume 4''''' – cover art by [[Alex Milne]] and [[Joana Lafuente]]
File:MTMTE boxset.jpg|'''''More Than Meets the Eye Box Set''''' – cover art by [[Marcelo Matere]]
File:IDWCollectionP2V3.jpg|'''''The IDW Collection Phase Two: Volume 3''''' – cover art by Marcelo Matere and [[Tom B. Long]]
File:DefinitiveG1Collection v55.jpg|'''''The Definitive G1 Collection: Volume 55: Shadowplay''''' – cover art by [[Don Figueroa]] (Whirl) and Alex Milne (retro)
File:MTMTE SWE 02.jpg|'''''Kaos och skuggor''''' – cover art by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Josh Burcham]]
</gallery>

==References==
{{reflist}}

Kaput

2024-05-29T18:22:33Z

Thunderwave: /* Notes */ Corrected the note claiming that "Kaput" is a german word

{{factions|autobot}}
:''Kaput is an [[Autobot]] from the [[2005 IDW continuity|2005 IDW portion]] of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''
[[File:This Machine Kills Fascists - Kaput (cropped).jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Find your inner balance! Quickly, because you're a unicycle!]]
'''Kaput''' is a medical officer stationed at the [[Kimia Facility]], specializing in the study of [[spark]]s. He's small, has a bad eye and moves around on a wheel in robot mode. His bedside manner needs some work.

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|"[[Bullets]]" (text story); ''[[Omega's Conundrum|Spotlight: Orion Pax]]'' (depicted on-panel)}}
[[File:KaputandRung.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|left|]]
Early in the reign of [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta Prime]], Kaput of [[Teledonia]] {{storylink|Dissolution Part 2: Anomie|Anomie}} worked at an Autobot medical center. Alongside [[Wheeljack (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Wheeljack]], he oversaw the temporary redesign of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]] for a difficult mission. {{storylink|Omega's Conundrum}}

When [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]'s [[cerebro-sensitive bullet]] gun backfired in his face, he went to Kaput to get a prognosis on his injury. Kaput told him in no uncertain terms that he was going to die, probably soon, and there was no way to remove the bullet before then. And no one likes you. And you're stupid. {{storylink|Bullets}}

Kaput and [[Fixit (G1)|Fixit]] repaired [[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] after his battle with [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] at [[Garrus-9]], but even though they renovated his entire body he wouldn't wake up. They found that this was because of a [[zero point]], a smaller-than-microscopical cavity that kept his [[spark]] from traveling through his body, but failed to locate it. Kaput later transferred the comatose Springer to ''[[Debris]]'', where he told [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] and [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]] of his findings. {{storylink|Zero Point}}

At some point, Kaput worked with [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]] at the [[Kimia Facility]]. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

Later, Kaput showed up as one of the "[[Disappeared]]" on [[Necroworld]], {{storylink|Dissolution Part 1: Some Other Cybertron|Some Other Cybertron}} where he repaired [[Anode]]'s impalement wound before leaving in a hurry when [[Velocity (G1)|Velocity]] got confrontational. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 2: Anomie|Anomie}}

Before [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]], Kaput also attempted to find a way to track whose sparks lit up the [[Mortilus|Necrobot]]'s flowers. He finally found that Censere had a database that matched the flowers to the sparks. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 3: A World Misplaced|A World Misplaced}}

[[File:AfterMegatron-DeadKaput.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.5|De-Kaput-ated.]]
After Anode learned that her [[Conjunx Endura]] [[Lug (IDW)|Lug]] hadn't actually travelled with her to the future, Kaput led her, Nautica, and Velocity to a spark-flower containing a fragment of Lug's residual spark energy. Anode, however, realized that she could use the spark and a fragment of [[Living metal|sentio metallico]] to potentially return her partner back to life, and subsequently supervised the operation that resulted in the recreation of Lug's mind and body. {{storylink|Dissolution Part 6: This Machine Kills Fascists|This Machine Kills Fascists}}

As [[Team Rodimus (G1)|Team Rodimus]] prepared to leave Necroworld, Kaput decided that he would stay on the planet with his new assistant [[Fangry (G1)|Fangry]], fascinated by the wealth of potential knowledge the Necrobot had left behind. [[Minimus Ambus]] requested his assistance after he discovered that he could no longer control his new suit of [[Magnus Armor]], though Kaput couldn't figure out what was wrong.

After the Autobots had left, Kaput turned his attention to [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]], who was suffering increasingly destructive fits as a result of a trauma-induced spark mutation. After several days of study, Kaput devised an experimental procedure that would hopefully return Tailgate to normal: a sealed isolation chamber that would bombard the little Autobot's spark with neutronic radiation for six months. Just as Kaput finished lowering Tailgate into the chamber, however, Fangry, hoping to get his revenge on Tailgate, crept up on his erstwhile colleague and tore off his head, trapping Tailgate underground for another six million years. {{storylink|After Megatron (A Dissolution Epilogue)|After Megatron}}

==Notes==
* "Kaput" (spelled as "kaputt") is German for "broken".

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Kaput''' (カプット ''Kaputto'')

[[Category:Comic-only Autobots]]
[[Category:Disappeared]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:Medics]]

How Ratchet Got His Hands Back

2024-04-30T11:19:15Z

Thunderwave: /* Notes */ Added coloring error of First Aid's hands

{{Comicstory|
|series=mtmte|issueno=5
|prev=Life After the Big Bang
|next=Interiors
|caption=
|image=MTMTE5_cvrA.jpg
|title="How Ratchet Got His Hands Back"
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[May 23]], [[2012]]
|coverdate=May 2012
|story by=[[James Roberts]]
|art by=[[Alex Milne]]
|colors by=[[Josh Burcham]]
|letters by=[[Chris Mowry]]
|editor=[[John Barber]]
|continuity=[[2005 IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[2005 IDW timeline|Current era (2012)]]
}}
'''There's nothing left to lose as Ratchet confronts the 'bot behind the plague on Delphi.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:MTMTE5 firstaid takes charge.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6]]
At the [[Delphi]] medical facility, the furious [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] dispatches the two [[Genericon]]s threatening the remaining Autobots there, tearing one in half and decapitating the other with his shoulder compartment. As [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]] and [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] return to tending the inflicted, [[Pharma (G1)|Pharma]] pulls a gun on [[Ambulon]], accusing him of freeing the Decepticons and releasing the virus plaguing the facility, on the basis that he is a former Decepticon himself. First Aid, however, turns the tables on Pharma when he examines the Genericons' remains and discovers that they were ''not'' [[Monoformer]]s, as Pharma had claimed. Ratchet puts the final pieces of the puzzle together, and requests that Pharma transform; when he refuses, Ratchet diagnoses the virus as being activated through transformation. First Aid and Ambulon have not succumbed to its effects because the former has a malfunctioning [[transformation cog]], while the latter has no reason to transform, his alternate mode being only the leg of a prototype [[combiner]], but Pharma will not transform because he knows this already, being responsible for the plague in the first place. Pharma shoots out a life-support system to cover his escape, rabbiting down a hidden tunnel in a [[CR chamber]] while the other medics scramble to save the lives of their patients. [[Backstreet (G1)|Backstreet]] fades particularly fast, forcing Ratchet to transform into ambulance mode in order to give him a full systems boost from his reboot coils. With the virus now activated within him, Ratchet sets off after Pharma.

Meanwhile, aboard the ''[[Lost Light]]'', [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] meets with [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] and requests to undergo the [[Rite of the Autobrand]], having realized the foolishness of his earlier decision to be a [[Decepticon]]. Grudgingly impressed with Tailgate's skill set, Magnus agrees to teach him the [[Autobot Code]], nearly driving the poor little bot out of his head with intense study of the code's ten thousand pages. Tailgate's interest is caught by clause nineteen-eighty-five; remembering the [[Legislator|giant robots]] pursuing [[Skids (G1)|Skids]], he inquires about clause nineteen-eighty-four, which Magnus informs him relates to the supposedly non-existent "thought warfare".

[[File:Red Alert listens How Ratchet Got His Hands Back.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2]]
Elsewhere on the ship, [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] meets with one of his oldest patients, [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]], concerned that the paranoia he helped the security officer overcome is returning. Red Alert insists that he heard a noise emanating from a crack in the floor of the chamber in which the [[Sparkeater (creature)|Sparkeater]] was found, but that ''should'' be impossible, as that chamber is at the lowest point on the ship, with only outer space beyond. Despite Rung's skepticism, Red Alert produces a recording of the sound, which Rung recognizes as a distorted voice...repeating "kill me" over and over again...

[[File:Ratchet Red Rust.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
Back in Delphi, Ratchet catches up to Pharma, who gleefully explains his master plan: he engineered the plague in order to shut Delphi down so that he could escape a deal he made with the [[Decepticon Justice Division]] that forced him to kill patients in order to harvest their transformation cogs for the [[Tarn (G1)|DJD's transformation addicted-leader]] in return for Delphi's safety. The two Genericons—[[Sonic (IDW)|Sonic]] and [[Boom]]—were paid by Pharma to surrender to the facility, and once locked up together, to merge into their audio-equipment alternate mode and project a blast of weaponized sound calculated by Pharma to corrode Transformers from within: the "big bang" that contaminated all who heard it. His vigorous monologuing has blinded Pharma to one thing, however: as Ratchet slowly rusts away in front of him, his liquefied innards have pooled around Pharma's feet, infecting him. Pharma escapes to the roof of the facility with the only vaccine, but is surprised by the appearance of Ratchet's remote-projected [[holomatter]] avatar, which distracts him long enough to let Ratchet catch up and tackle him, causing the vaccine to fall off the building. Ratchet and Pharma grapple, but when Ratchet's arm breaks off, Pharma tumbles off the roof, and is left clinging onto the edge, unable to transform to jet mode and fly to safety without activating the virus. Ratchet turns to leave him to his fate, and the traitorous medic tries to shoot him in the back: luckily, the near-dead [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] appears and slices Pharma's hands off, letting him plummet to his presumed doom.

Thanks to Pharma's vaccine, saved from its fall by Ratchet's holomatter projection, the virus is cured, and everyone leaves for the ''Lost Light''. On the return journey, Ratchet invites First Aid to succeed him as the ship's chief medical officer, recognizing both his skill, and his dedication and honor: it was he who transmitted the escalating death rates—caused by Pharma's cog harvesting—over the ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' frequency. The two doctors lament the loss of both [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]] and the old Pharma, but First Aid remarks that Ratchet will always carry part of Pharma with him. Two parts, actually: Ratchet has replaced his worn-out hands with Pharma's!
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
(Characters in ''italic text'' appear in flashbacks.) 
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
{{{!}}border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background:transparent"
{{!}}-
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] (2)
* [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]] (3)
* [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] (5)
* [[Ambulon]] (6)
* [[Pharma (G1)|Pharma]] (7)
* [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] (8)
{{!}}style="background:transparent;border:0px" valign="top"{{!}}
* [[Backstreet (G1)|Backstreet]] (9)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (11)
* [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] (13)
* [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]] (14)
* [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] (16)
{{!}}}
|c2=
* [[Sonic (IDW)|Sonic]] (1)
* [[Boom]] (4)
* ''[[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]]'' (15)
|c4=
* [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] (10)
* ''[[Nova Prime]]'' (12)
}}

==Quotes==
"I have the '''world's worst alt mode:''' I turn into a '''leg.''' Ambulon: From the verb 'to ambulate,' meaning 'to walk about.' It's a stupid name..." 
"...but all the best names are taken."
:—'''Ambulon''' and '''Ratchet'''

"It's just—I thought it would be more of a '''ten-point plan...? One:''' Don't do bad things. '''Two:''' Don't, er, be rude... stuff like—'''three:''' don't be a Decepticon. Stuff like that."
:—'''Tailgate''' on the unexpected intricacies of the Autobot Code

"Relax! A few weeks of '''cripplingly intense study''' and it'll be '''over!''' It might even be '''fff'''— It might even be '''fff'''— I can't—my mouth just won't—I can't say it." 
"Fun...?" 
"'''That's''' the one!"
:—'''Ultra Magnus''' and '''Tailgate'''

"I'm not convinced you're paying attention." 
"...what? Oh. Sorry—I, er, I thought I saw some '''graffiti''' on your desk. Yeah, some—some really '''tiny''' graffiti. 'Ultra Magnus is an O.C.D. control freak who uses learning to hurt people.' But it was just a speck of dirt." 
"'''DIRT?!'''" 
"It's okay, sir—it's gone. It can't hurt you now."
:—'''Magnus''' and '''Tailgate''' quickly become this book's next great double-act.

"Pharma, I've been held at gunpoint by the '''best'''—[[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]], [[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]], [[Killmaster]]—remember Killmaster? With the wand?—and I've never known anyone take '''so long''' to explain their grand plan."
:—With a dry cool wit like that, '''Ratchet''' could be an action hero.

"You died a long time ago, Pharma. And as for me... my hands don't work, I'm miles from anyone I truly care about, and I'm still coming to terms with the fact that after a '''four-million year build-up,''' peace has turned out to be a '''massive anticlimax.''' Bottom line? I've got nothing else to lose."
:—'''Ratchet'''

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* The absence of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s [[Moonbase One|first moon]] is mentioned again, previously noted in [[Liars, A to D Part 1: How to Say Goodbye and Mean It|issue #1]] and an important plot point over in ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Stick Together|#3]]. Tailgate claims (falsely) to have coordinated the first search for it, meaning it's been missing since the early days of [[Nova Prime]].
* Speaking of Nova Prime, Tailgate claims (false) responsibility for persuading him to look beyond Cybertron. (He probably didn't know how [[Revelation (IDW)|that turned out]].)
* Ultra Magnus tells Tailgate to relax, a word he later [[Cybertronian Homesick Blues|denies the existence of due to never having heard of it]].
* Ratchet's [[holomatter]] avatar returns, a concept only seen [[Police Action Part 2: Only Forward|once]] since [[Simon Furman]]'s time on the series ended. A quick explanation is offered for why the tech was phased out in universe: it's energy-intensive, it demands total concentration, and the hair never looks real.
* While talking about Red Alert's history, Rung mentions the security officer's belief in "the [[Institute]]", a mysterious facility previously mentioned in "[[Chaos Theory Part 2]]". This scene has a very sneaky payoff in [[Shadowplay, Part 2: Patternism|#10]].
* Likewise, Drift mentions Ratchet having once saved his life long ago in [[Rodion]], a story that will be shown to us in [[Shadowplay, Part 1: Post Hoc|#9]].

===Transformers references===
* The opening moments of the issue, as Fortress Maximus tears one of the Genericons in half and slams the pieces together, is an homage to ''[[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|Last Stand of the Wreckers]]'' [[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|#5]], in which [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] did the same thing to [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]].
* A patient named [[Tracer (disambiguation)|Tracer]] is listed among those at Delphi. Whether this is supposed to be a new character or one of the existing Tracers is unknown; as the Micromaster [[Tracer (Micromaster)|Tracer]] was an Autobot in Japanese fiction, we'd guess it's him.
* Rung and Red Alert's session numbers are clearly evocative of issues of the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel UK comic]]: [[Prey!|#97]] was Roberts's first issue; [[Wanted: Galvatron — Dead or Alive!|#113]] was the issue that hooked him; [[Front Line! (issue)|#288]] was the issue in which he got a [[Letters page (Marvel UK)|letter printed]]; and issue [[End of the Road! (US)|#332]] was the final installment of the series. The significance of [[The Last Stand|#7]] is not apparent.
* On the subject of numbers, Rung's patient number for Red Alert is the [[List of Japanese ID numbers|numbers]] used for Red Alert's Japanese toy releases (his [[Red Alert (G1)#Generation 1 2|original toy]] ID, [[Red Alert (G1)#Smallest Transforming Transformers|Smallest Transforming Transformers]], and [[Red Alert (G1)#Binaltech Asterisk|Binaltech Asterisk]] numbers respectively).

===Real-world references===
* Ironically, clause Nineteen Eighty-Four is not a direct reference to what [[1984|you might be thinking]]. Rather, "Nineteen Eighty-Four" and "thought warfare" homage {{w|Nineteen Eighty-Four|the novel of the same name}} by George Orwell, in which a totalitarian state controls the populace through "thought crime" and "double think," both forms of thought control, though "thought warfare" in the IDW continuity is often taken [[Mnemosurgery|more]] [[Nudge gun|literally]].

===Crew Manifest===
* Fortress Maximus, Ambulon, and First Aid return to the ''Lost Light'' with Ratchet.
* Red Alert admits finding 207 of his fellow crew suspicious.
* 5 deaths, 5 new arrivals since the launch.

===Errors===
* First Aid's hands are inconsistently colored. In some panels they are red with white fingers, while in other panels these colors are switched.

===Soundtrack===
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-aB4wtWiYI "Get Me Away From Here, I'm Dying"] by {{w|Belle & Sebastian}}
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fR21QVgJ84 "Carries On"] by {{w|Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros}}

When a thread was compiled for the soundtrack on the IDW boards, the second of these songs had been lost, so Roberts [http://web.archive.org/web/20150905164925/http://boards.idwpublishing.com/3/viewtopic.php?p=305968#p305968 suggested] the following as a replacement:
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c7QRP8mIt8 "City Sickness"] by {{w|Tindersticks}}

===Foreign localization===
'''Japanese'''
* ''Title:'' "'''"Meii" Ratchet no Fukkatsu'''" ("名医"ラチェットの復活, "The Resurrection of "Doctor" Ratchet")

'''Swedish'''
* ''Title:'' "'''Hur Ratchet fick händerna tillbaka'''" ("How Ratchet Got His Hands Back")

===Covers (3)===
* '''Cover A:''' Ratchet, infected with Red Rust, by Alex Milne and [[Josh Perez]].
* '''Cover B:''' Ultra Magnus teaches Tailgate the Autobot Code, by [[Nick Roche]] and [[Joana Lafuente]]. This cover was accidentally printed in a blurry, low-resolution quality.
* '''Cover RI:''' Ratchet and Drift, by [[Marcelo Matere]] and [[Priscilla Tramontano]], the first half of a combined image formed with the RI cover to ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[A Better Tomorrow|#5]].

<gallery>
File:MTMTE5_cvrA.jpg|This looks [[Cosmic Rust (disease)|familiar]].
File:MTMTE5_cvrB.jpg|You '''will''' deal with this now!
File:MTMTE5_cvrRI.jpg|I am cooler than you.
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[A Better Tomorrow|#5]]
* ''[[Star Trek|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]/[[Doctor Who]]: Assimilation²''
* ''[[The Transformers: Autocracy|Autocracy]]''
* CGC
* IDW ''Ghostbusters'' comics
* [[John Byrne]]'s ''Trio''

===Reprints===
* '''''The Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye Volume 2''''' ([[October 17]], [[2012]]) ISBN 1613774982 / ISBN 978-1613774984 
** Collects ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #4–8.
** Bonus material includes art from most covers, "Meet the Crew" and "Meet the 'Cons" pages.
** Trade paperback format.

* '''''[[The Transformers: The IDW Collection Phase Two: Volume 1]]''''' ([[September 3]], [[2014]]) ISBN 1631400401 / ISBN 978-1631400407
** Collects ''[[Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime|The Death of Optimus Prime]]'', ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #1–3 & #4–5, and ''[[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|Robots in Disguise]]'' issues [[The Autonomy Lesson (issue)|#1]]–[[A Better Tomorrow|5]] & [[Syndromica (1)|#6]].
** Hardcover format.

* '''''Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye Box Set''''' ([[December 2]], [[2015]]) ISBN 1631404741 / ISBN 978-1631404740
** Collects ''More Than Meets the Eye'' volumes 1–5.
** Bonus material unknown at this time.

* '''''[[Transformers: The Definitive G1 Collection]]: Volume 53: Liars, A to D''''' ([[December 26]], [[2018]])
** Collects ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #1–6, and ''[[The Transformers: Spotlight|Spotlight]]: [[The Reluctant Specialist|Trailcutter]]'' & ''[[The Waiting Game|Hoist]]''.
** Bonus material includes an all-new interview with James Roberts, rare archive material from the dawn of ''More than Meets the Eye'', Alex Milne's sketchbook, a cover gallery and a forward by [[Simon Furman]].
** Hardcover format.

* '''''Transformers: Mer än ögat kan se''''' ([[June 15]], [[2019]])
** Collects ''More than Meets the Eye'' issues #1–8 & Annual 2012, ''Spotlight: Trailcutter'' & ''Hoist'', and a special illustrated edition of "[[Bullets]]".
** Swedish reprint. Hardcover format.

<gallery>
File:MTMTE vol2.jpg|'''''More Than Meets the Eye Volume 2''''' – cover art by [[Alex Milne]] and [[Josh Perez]]
File:IDWCollectionP2V1.jpg|'''''The IDW Collection Phase Two: Volume 1''''' – cover art by [[Saren Stone]]
File:MTMTE boxset.jpg|'''''More Than Meets the Eye Box Set''''' – cover art by [[Marcelo Matere]]
File:DefinitiveG1Collection v53.jpg|'''''The Definitive G1 Collection: Volume 53: Liars, A to D''''' – cover art by [[Don Figueroa]] (Whirl) and Alex Milne (retro)
File:MTMTE_SWE_01.jpg|'''''Mer än ögat kan se''''' – cover art by Alex Milne and [[Joana Lafuente]].
</gallery>

Shockblast: Rampage

2024-01-22T15:38:10Z

Thunderwave: /* Differences with Super Link */

{{episode|
|series=Energon
|ep=21
|prev=Alpha Q: Identity
|next=Survival Instincts
|title="Laser Wave: Rampage" "Shockblast: Rampage"
|japanese=大暴れ! レーザーウェーブ
|romaji=Ōabare! Laserwave
|translation=Rampage! Laserwave
|image=E21_titlecard.jpg
|caption= Oddly enough, of the three [[generic]]s about to be blasted by 'ol Shock, the {{w|Redshirt (character)|redshirt}} survives. [[Each One Fights...|For now...]] then he [[Unicron Unleashed|gets better]] and [[Wing Saber (Energon)|quits being a redshirt.]]
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]]
|writer=[[Akira Okeya]]
|director=[[Naoki Ōhira]]
|animation studio=[[Actas Inc.|Actas]], [[Studio A-CAT]] (3D)
|airdate=[[May 28|28 May]] [[2004]] (Japanese) [[July 3]], 2004 (English)
|continuity=[[Unicron Trilogy]]
}}

'''Shockblast disables Cybertron's energon grid, while Kicker tries to convince the Autobots to listen to Alpha Q.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Shockblast Breaks In.jpg||upright=1.3|thumb|left|This is kind of cool... wait no it isn't.]]

[[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] careens madly across the surfaces of [[Unicron]]'s head, with [[Kicker Jones|Kicker]] at the controls and [[Misha Miramond|Misha]] screaming in terror. [[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]] is excited at the prospect of joining forces with the [[Autobot]]s and gaining freedom at last; Kicker is also happy over the prospect of bringing Unicron's head to the Autobots.

Autobot troops continue searching for [[Shockblast]]. As the escaped fugitive watches from the shadows, a guard refuses [[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Dagger]] and [[Padlock (Energon)|Padlock]] entry to a restricted area, and the two head onwards in their search. Shockblast wastes no time in killing the guard after they leave and leaping through the doors. He lands in the "[[Primus|energon core]]" chamber, which blasts him.

[[Rad White|Rad]] reports on Shockblast's intrusion, and [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Prime]], [[Inferno (Energon)|Inferno]] and [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] head that way. Padlock and Wing Dagger arrive first and find Shockblast lying inert, but it's just an act. Shockblast takes Padlock hostage, holding off the Autobots as Prime and company arrive. He exits... and kills Padlock on the way out. The doors are sealed behind him. An infuriated Wing Dagger futilely tries to bash his way out of the [[Primus]] chamber, while Hot Shot contacts Rad to open the doors.

Shockblast radios [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]], demanding to be rescued. He informs Megatron that there's a huge cache of [[energon]] on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], enough to revive Unicron, and offers to disable the [[energon grid (technology)|energon grid]] so the [[Decepticon]]s can infiltrate the planet. Megatron sends his troops to help, despite [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]]'s warnings about trusting Shockblast.

[[File:Energon-Shockblast-Rides-Tidal-Wave.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|Dude, hang ten!]]

Rad detects the Decepticons approaching the planet with a mobile fortress, and he powers up the energon grid. Prime and company continue their hunt for Shockblast.

[[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] and the troops arrive at Cybertron; Shockblast, who's been put in charge, orders them to crash the mobile fortress into the energon grid, over their protests. A huge explosion ensues; Shockblast uses the distraction to destroy one of the [[energon tower]]s. [[Terrorcon (Energon)|Terrorcons]] and Decepticons swarm in through the resultant hole in the energon grid.

Shockblast links up with the Decepticons, and he and Tidal Wave immediately begin squabbling. When Shockblast begins picking on Tidal Wave, the Decepticons fight among themselves.

Rad redirects the energon grid to blast Shockblast. Megatron arrives and orders the others to rescue Shockblast, and Tidal Wave reluctantly does so. Shockblast delivers one last blast, destroying another tower, before Megatron orders a retreat.

[[File:Energon-Optimus-VS-Rodimus.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|left|Admit it, you always wanted to see this.]]

In the wake of the battle, Wing Dagger recriminates himself for letting Shockblast get away. [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]] radios in with news that Kicker is on his way, with Unicron's head. Alpha Q hopes he's doing the right thing.

Jetfire is shocked to see Unicron. Prime and company arrive aboard the ''[[Miranda II]]'', as does [[Rodimus (Energon)|Rodimus]]. Optimus demands that he release Kicker; Rodimus refuses until Optimus listens to everything he has to say. Optimus is prepared to use force to get his allies back, and the two come to blows, while the puzzled Kicker watches. Summoning the [[Energon Saber]], Kicker gets between the two and orders them to stop. He pleads with Optimus to listen to Alpha Q's plans for Unicron. Optimus reluctantly agrees, at least until Megatron is dealt with. A deal is struck, and he and Rodimus shake on it.

Aboard Unicron's body, Shockblast bashes Tidal Wave for failing to cover him adequately during the battle on Cybertron. Megatron orders him to lay off. Shockblast leaves with Snow Cat and Demolishor. Megatron tells Tidal Wave that he'll eventually be allowed to deal with Shockblast himself, and that an attack on Cybertron is nigh...

Kicker leads Optimus and the rest back to Alpha Q, and Optimus prepares himself to listen to the alien's tale.
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] (1)
*[[Prowl (Energon)|Prowl]] (6)
*[[Rodimus (Energon)|Rodimus]] (7)
*[[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Dagger]] (8)
*[[Padlock (Energon)|Padlock]] (9)
*[[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (13)
*[[Prime Force]] (14)
*[[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] (15)
*[[Inferno (Energon)|Inferno]] (16)
*[[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]] (23)
*[[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] (24)

|c2=
*[[Shockblast]] (10)
*[[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (17)
*[[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]] (18)
*[[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (19)
*[[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]] (20)
*[[Cyclonus (Armada)|Snow Cat]] (21)
*[[Divebomb (Energon)|Divebomb]]s (22)

|c3=
*[[Kicker Jones]] (2)
*[[Misha Miramond]] (3)
*[[Rad White]] (12)

|c4=
*[[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]] (4)
*[[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]] (5)
*[[Primus]] (11)
*[[Energon Saber]] (25)
}}

==Quotes==
"I can't believe we've actually joined forces with the talking Q-heads!"
:—'''Kicker''' reflects on his newest ally.

"Don't trust Shockblast. Shockblast BAD."
:—'''Tidal Wave''' is both eloquent and succinct.
{{--}}

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Super Link''===
*As Ironhide careens across Unicron's head, ''Super Link'' has Kicker essentially saying to Misha, "Ha ha, this scares you? Keep it up, Ironhide!" In ''Energon'', he just says "Relax, everything's under control."
*The part where Shockblast kills the [[Padlock (Energon)#Orange jet Autobots|orange Autobot]] has a lot of ''Energon'' exclusive dialogue, including the guard's screaming and whistling, and Shockblast grunting and a giving small monologue.
*Alpha Q's opening lines are a bit mangled in ''Energon''. He says "It is time to bring him to us", even though Kicker's ''already'' been brought before Alpha Q. Then he says "He sees it!" as Ironhide stops in front of nothing. In ''Super Link'', Kicker notices that the stars are moving relative to them, meaning that Unicron's head is moving, but this reaction is missing from ''Energon'', instead replaced with the bizarre observation that "We're moving at light speed on Unicron's head!"
*''Energon'' inserts some strange dialogue from Rodimus about Unicron's ''body'' moving. It's supposed to be about his ''head'' moving. Y'know, like, the thing that they're inside of and have control over.
*''Energon'' scrambles Kicker and Ironhide's chat about bringing the head to Optimus; in ''Super Link'', they're worried about what he will think, while in ''Energon'', they're just like YAY WE DID A GREAT THING GO US.
*For some reason, ''Energon'' changes the first mention of Primus's chamber into "the energon core". A moment later, it's the chamber of Primus, as intended.
*Hot Shot's bizarre "Who are they?", referring to the two Autobot guards, is an ''Energon'' addition, as is Prime's rather excited "Let's go find out!" reply. In ''Super Link'', it's more along the lines of "What was that?" and "Doesn't matter; we're going our own way."
*''Energon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s animation omits some anime teardrops falling from Wing Dagger's eyes as he mourns for Padlock, even though the sound effect for it remains audible. The ''Energon'' animation also gives Wing Dagger blue eyes, while in ''Super Link'', they're green.
*Five seconds after informing Optimus that Unicron's head is approaching, Jetfire is shocked and alarmed at the sight of...Unicron's head.
*Kicker tells Optimus that "we're coming through the warp gate", even though they're ''already right there''. A second later, ''Rodimus'' comes through a warp gate.
*For once, someone was paying attention: the dialog for ''Super Link'' indicates that the Decepticons are using several mobile fortresses; ''Energon'' changes it to just one, as shown in the animation.
*''Energon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s animation is missing an energon glow effect over Optimus as the Decepticons retreat.
*''Energon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s animation is missing a brief slash of highlighting white light as Kicker steps between Rodimus and Optimus.
*After the battle, Snow Cat and Demolishor lead Shockblast away to be repaired. ''Energon'' adds dialogue that makes it sound like Shockblast is taking ''them'' away.

===Pain Count===
*"Uh?": 11
*"Let's do this": 1
*"Aw man": 2

===Animation and technical errors===
[[File:Laser Wave Rampage.jpg|thumb|To be fair, translating is tough.]]
[[File:Tf Energon Unfinished Foreground Fight.jpg|thumb|It probably went down like this at the animation studio: Worker A: "They left the background out!" Worker B: "It's ok, here's a sketch to tide us over for now- we'll fix it in post-production." Worker A: "It goes out ''TODAY!''" Worker B: "WHAT!?!"]]

*When first broadcast, this episode was titled "Laser Wave: Rampage", using Shockblast's Japanese name. Amazingly, it was fixed when the episode was rebroadcast. The [[2014]] [[Shout! Factory]] DVD release of the series, however, uses the original incorrect title for the episode.
*Prowl's forearms are moving in a hilarious “weight lifting” movement, almost as if he's eager to join something, despite only discussing Unicron's body moving.
*In the middle of a quiet moment, Hot Shot ''yells'' at Inferno to suggest they [[Powerlinx]]...even though they're standing right next to each other.
*Misha's hair flows freely from the back of her space suit helmet. It even flaps around from all the wind that's blowing around in the airless vacuum of deep space. Somehow this does not kill her.
*When the Decepticons raid the energon tower, Snow Cat and Demolishor transform into robot mode when they are already in robot mode.
*There are a few instances where Shockblast is miscolored pink, which is likely an older CGI model as this [[:File:Tvmag6-3.jpg|color variant was used in promotional material]] in ''[[TV Magazine]]''.
*Optimus Prime speaks with Inferno's voice as he confronts Tidal Wave and Shockblast.
*Tidal Wave's CGI model fluctuates in size throughout the episode; going from the same size as the other Decepticons, to being ginormous, to being correctly scaled.
*In the scene that shows Optimus and Rodimus fighting with Kicker in the background, the ground they are standing on is a rough sketch, with a visible signature and some Japanese characters. Apparently, it was either overlooked or the animators sent in an incomplete print of the episode running low on time, as had happened in the past with several episodes exported to America.
*Once again, Rodimus's model is sized too big throughout the episode.

===Continuity notes===
*This episode reveals that the purified energon stars are what prevents the Autobots from being harmed by the energon grid.
*Gadgets and powers:
**Shockblast's back [[kibble]] is used as antenna to contact Megatron.
**Shockblast calls out "Shockblast!" as he fires his cannon in satellite mode. Does this mean his attack call out is named after him, or is it the other way around?
**Demolishor and Snow Cat's new bodies are shown to be capable of withstanding raw [[energon star]]s much like Megatron's body can.
**Shockblast's head can pop out of his satellite mode, [[Sweep (G1)|Sweep]]-style.
***Ironically, he is also the first satellite [[Transformer]] to use this feature—the second being ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]].
**Megatron uses his Hyper Mode for the first time. This is the first instance of it being referred to as such on-screen.
**Jetfire's gun can fire flares.
*Powerlinx forms:
**Optimus Prime [[Super Mode]]
**Powerlinx Inferno with Hot Shot
**Powerlinx Rodimus with Prowl
**Energon Saber

===Trivia===
*Kicker repeatedly refers to Alpha Q as the "Talking Q-Heads".

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 3: Shockblast Unleashed ([[Paramount Pictures|Paramount]])
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2004 — ''Transformer: Super Link'' — Volume 006 ([[Interchannel]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 3: Shockblast Unleashed (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2008 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Ultimate Collection (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Complete Series ([[Shout! Factory]])

[[Category:Energon episodes]]

Battle Stations

2024-01-20T03:50:23Z

Thunderwave: /* Differences with Super Link */

{{episode|
|series=Energon
|ep=19
|prev=A Tale of Two Heros
|next=Alpha Q: Identity
|title="Battle Stations"
|japanese=恐怖! ユニクロン始動
|romaji=Kyōfu! Unicron Shidō
|translation=Terror! Unicron Activates
|image=E19_titlecard.jpg
|caption=''Never let you get between me and my guitar.'' 
''No use to keep trying, you won’t get very far.''
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]]
|writer=[[Shōji Tonoike]]
|director=[[Kei'ichirō Kawaguchi]]
|animation studio=[[Actas Inc.|Actas]], [[Studio A-CAT]] (3D)
|airdate=[[May 14|14 May]] [[2004]] (Japanese) [[July 3]], 2004 (English)
|continuity=[[Unicron Trilogy]]
}}

'''The Autobots take on Unicron, luring him into a running battle within the space bridge.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Energon-MirandaII-Attacks-Unicron.jpg|upright=1.3|left|thumb|Attack pattern alpha, go now!]]

[[Kicker Jones|Kicker]] recaps the ''[[Miranda II]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission, [[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]]'s plans, and [[Rodimus (Energon)|Rodimus]]'s reappearance.

The ''Miranda II'' approaches [[Unicron]], and her crew prepares for battle. The plan is to fry Unicron from the inside with the [[energon grid]].

The [[Decepticon]]s note the ship's approach; [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]] has Unicron open fire. The [[Autobot]]s fire back. It doesn't seem to do any damage, but they continue forward and infiltrate Unicron. As they fly amid Unicron's inner workings, Megatron has Unicron stir, and huge panels threaten to crush the ship. [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] orders a withdrawal. The panels close in, damaging the energon grid antennae. The ship barely escapes; Unicron growls and glows with energy.

[[Misha Miramond|Misha]] can't raise the energon grid; the [[Omnicon]]s report the antenna damage. Optimus Prime decides to lure Unicron into the space bridge. As the bridge activates and the ''Miranda II'' heads toward it with Unicron in pursuit, the Decepticons decide to attack. Prime and some others counter-attack. The ship enters the space bridge; Unicron follows, straining the gateway... but both make it through intact.

[[File:Energon-Demolishor-VS-Inferno.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|[[Transformation]]? In ''my'' Transformers?]]

Aboard Unicron's head, Rodimus's contingent watch the battle. They're amazed to see Unicron's body just disappear. Alpha Q wonders if there's no way to stop Optimus from destroying Unicron. Rodimus says it's out of his hands. [[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] stirs, calling out Kicker's name.

In the space bridge, Kicker responds to Ironhide's call, and tells the Omnicons to drop him off at "the sky bridge", where he and Ironhide got separated. In the midst of the battle, Prime tells him that though Ironhide's decision was a bad one, they can't help him now. Kicker says that he won't let his partner down, despite Misha's pleas.

Prime relents, despite [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]]'s protests. With Prime's blessing, Kicker rockets off the ship's hull toward a warp gate that suddenly appears in the [[space bridge]] warp field. [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] comes with him.

[[File:Energon-Unicrons-Arms.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|left|BRAINS!]]

Rodimus and the others note that Ironhide is awake; Alpha Q orders Scorponok to tend to him.

Kicker begins searching for Ironhide.... and is joined by Misha. She defends her actions, saying that Ironhide is her friend too.

The Decepticons suddenly remember that they can [[transformation|transform]], and do, lending the unstoppable power of a flying space dump truck to their side. Optimus orders the Omnicons to send the ''Miranda II'' toward Unicron at full speed. As the battle continues, Unicron overtakes the ship, actually bumping into it. The ship approaches the exit gate. Prime orders everyone to re-board the ship, and contacts [[Rad White|Rad]], who says he's ready. Unicron, and all the combatants, arrive at Cybertron.

Rad activates Cybertron's energon grid. The [[energon tower]]s open fire on Unicron. Megatron partially transforms Unicron to crush Prime, but an energon blast destroys his arms. The assault continues, inflicting further damage on Unicron. Megatron finally relents, and retreats.

Kicker has a sudden premonition, and warns Misha to take cover. [[Team Rodimus's ship]] emerges from a warp gate. Rodimus asks them to come with him; Kicker hesitantly agrees.
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Inferno (Energon)|Inferno]] (1)
*[[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (2)
*[[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] (3)
*[[Skyblast (Energon)|Skyblast]] (11)
*[[Strongarm (Energon)|Strongarm]] (12)
*[[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]] (15)
*[[Prime Force]] (16)
*[[Rodimus (Energon)|Rodimus]] (19)
*[[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] (20)
*[[Prowl (Energon)|Prowl]] (21)
*[[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] (22)

|c2=
*[[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]] (6)
*[[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (7)
*[[Cyclonus (Armada)|Snow Cat]] (8)
*[[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]] (9)
*[[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (10)
*[[Divebomb (Energon)|Divebomb]]s (14)

|c3=
*[[Misha Miramond]] (4)
*[[Kicker Jones]] (5)
*[[Rad White]] (24)

|c4=
*[[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]] (17)
*[[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]] (18)

*[[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (23)
}}

==Quotes==
"Remember, team! Our ultimate goal is to hit Unicron with everything we've got in order to put him out of commission for good."
:—'''Optimus Prime''' really does not trust his troops' memories.

"I can hardly wait to see the look on Prime's face when he's defeated."'
:—'''Megatron''' should really already know [[Dull surprise|what that look will be]].

"Ohh.. agh.. can somebody get the number of that asteroid?"
:—'''Ironhide''' thinks asteroids have insurance.

"I gotta shake this cat. His yodeling is drivin' me ''nuts''!"
:—'''Hot Shot''', pursued by Snow Cat.

"Misha! Take cover!"
:—'''Kicker''' warns Misha to seek cover... while they float aimlessly in the empty void of outer space.
{{--}}

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Super Link''===
*Continuing ''Energon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s ceaseless efforts to paint Alpha Q as a villain, Kicker's recap focuses on Alpha Q's effort at reviving Unicron, rather than Megatron as in ''Super Link''. ''Energon''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> narration is also heavily padded out with a ''ton'' of extra verbage.
*''Super Link'' opens with Prime noting that, if Unicron activates, they must immediately lure him into the space bridge. ''Energon'' doesn't bring up this plan until the middle of the battle, after Unicron is already active, and replaces it with some random "be ready to act on the double" chatter. Prime finally mentions the space bridge plan as if it were just a random thought: "What if we could lure it into the space bridge?"
*''Energon'' further makes it sound like the plan is to fly inside Unicron and destroy him from within with the ''Miranda II''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s energon grid. This is actually what seems to happen in the animation... yet in ''Superlink'', the dialog seems to be referring to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s energon grid.
*In ''Energon'', Unicron growls as Megatron activates him. These growls were performed by the [[Mark Acheson|same voice actor]] from ''[[Transformers: Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]''.
*During the scene of the Decepticons watching the Autobots enter the space bridge, ''Energon'' omits a couple of key points. First, Starscream has a short line reacting to Tidal Wave's question, explaining why Snow Cat hits him and speaks to him. Second, the impetus for the attack is that they know the ''Miranda II''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s energon grid is down. Third, the point of the attack is stop the Autobots from escaping. Fourth, Megatron's threat to devour Earth is omitted.
*As the ''Miranda II'' approaches the space bridge, several of ''Energon''<nowiki>s</nowiki>s lines make it seem like Prime's troops are off flying around in space, away from the ship. All are contradicted by the animation, which clearly shows Prime's group standing on the ''Miranda II''{{'}}s hull:
**"Stay close to the ship!" (originally a command to keep the Decepticons ''away'' from the ship)
**"Why are they taking their time getting to the space bridge?" (originally a complaint that the space bridge wasn't ready yet)
**"Hurry men! To the space bridge!" (originally an order for the ''ship'' to enter the space bridge.)
*''Energon'' is missing some animation effects after Unicron enters the space bridge. ''Super Link'' features green glowing space behind the flying Decepticons, rather than normal space.
**Alpha Q's holo-viewer-globe-thing is left out of one the subsequent shots, with a black void in its place.
*Kicker's statement about "the sky bridge" is ''Energon'' nonsense. In ''Super Link'', he requests the Omnicons to set up a "link-up gate" for him.
*Prime and Kicker's argument is a bit more coherent and forceful in ''Super Link'', with Prime clearly ordering Kicker to forget Ironhide (since he left without orders), and Kicker clearly ignoring Prime's order. Jetfire's subsequent statement that they'll have to use force to stop Kicker is an ''Energon'' insertion.
*In ''Energon'', Scorponok says that Alpha Q has wanted to meet Ironhide for a while now when it ''should'' be the other way around—Ironhide wanting to meet Alpha Q. Given that Ironhide had been unconscious on the floor in front of Alpha Q for quite some time, this addition isn't ''entirely'' nonsensical and kinda makes sense to a degree.
*Strongarm's statement that "we're still pointing directly at Unicron", when Prime orders engines to full throttle, is ''Energon'' nonsense. Both the plot and the animation show that they're ''fleeing'' from Unicron.
*Misha's responses to Kicker, when they meet up in space, are all ''Energon'' alterations. In ''Super Link'', she says she was worried she'd never see him again.
*''Super Link'' uses a different still shot of Unicron after he emerges from the space bridge.
*Prime's ''Megatron... when will you learn'' is an ''Energon'' addition, which rather disrupts the flow of Prime's obvious doubts about destroying Unicron.
*Jetfire reports "warp field dead ahead" as Unicron escapes, as if they've been looking for it and are flying toward it. He's ''supposed'' to be just reporting that a warp was detected, explaining how Unicron escaped.

===Pain count===
*"Uh?": 8
*"There's no time": 3
*"We've gotta": 1
*"We're a team": 1
*"We're counting on you": 1
*"You can't be serious": 1

===Animation and technical errors===
*The Autobots and Omnicons working the controls of the ''Miranda II'', are hilariously bashing at the buttons with closed fists.
*When Prime tells Hot Shot and Jetfire to stand by to attack, it's ''Inferno'' and Hot Shot that reply. Prime presumably meant Inferno, as he and Hot Shot were the ones at the helm.
*The music that plays when Unicron semi-transforms is hilariously inappropriate.
*More of a real-world error: Misha's space helmet has a gap in the back to let her hair flow out.
*Snow Cat yells "transform!" using Starscream's voice.

===Continuity notes===
*Grindor briefly appears in robot mode for the first time since "[[The New Cybertron City]]".
*Gadgets and powers:
**Snow Cat uses his guns in vehicle mode (however, he's not fully transformed into Hyper Mode as his skis are all folded away).
**Likewise, Demolishor uses his Hyper Mode transformation in vehicle mode.
**Hot Shot opens his car doors in vehicle mode and deploys his arms—something the toy is capable of. Unfortunately, he's wielding two of his rifles, despite only being shown to have one.
**Megatron deploys Unicron's arms in planet mode.
*[[Powerlinx]] forms:
**Optimus Prime [[Super Mode]]
**Powerlinx Inferno with Hot Shot

===Continuity errors===
*Grindor pretty much comes out of nowhere. He hasn't been seen at all since the ''Miranda II'' left Earth.

===Trivia===
*During Kicker's narration in the beginning, the flashback to Unicron from ''[[Transformers: Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]'' is shown again.
*The clip of Demolishor using his Hyper Mode with an army of Divebombs flying around him was reused from the [[A Tale of Two Heros|previous episode]].

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2004 — ''Transformer: Super Link'' — Volume 005 ([[Interchannel]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2008 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Ultimate Collection ([[Paramount Pictures|Paramount]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Complete Series ([[Shout! Factory]])

[[Category:Energon episodes]]

Battle of the Asteroid Belt

2024-01-16T14:18:09Z

Thunderwave: /* Animation and technical errors */

{{episode|
|series=Energon
|ep=9
|prev=Starscream the Mysterious Mercenary
|next=Energon Tower (episode)
|title="Battle of the Asteroid Belt"
|japanese=アステロイドベルトの死闘
|romaji=Asteroid Belt no Shitō
|translation=The Asteroid Belt's Battle to the Death
|image=E9_titlecard.jpg
|caption=First [[The New Cybertron City|Earth]], then [[Scorpinok (episode)|Mars]], now the asteroids. Will Jupiter be next?
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]]
|writer=[[Akira Okeya]]
|director=[[Kei'ichirō Kawaguchi]]
|animation studio=[[Actas Inc.|Actas]], [[Studio A-CAT]] (3D)
|airdate=[[March 5|5 March]] [[2004]] (Japanese) [[April 9]], 2004 (English)
|continuity=[[Unicron Trilogy]]
}}

'''The Decepticons manage to hit Asteroid City and Lunar City at the same time.'''

==Synopsis==
From [[Midway Gate Station 0-8]], [[Carlos Lopez|Carlos]] reports an unknown ship approaching [[Asteroid City]]. [[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] suspects it's the unknown assassin. Communications with Asteroid City are being jammed, and [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] suspects the enemy has set up a base nearby.

[[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]] reports [[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]]'s approach to [[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]], and warns him not to mess things up again. Scorponok is pleased to learn that the [[Autobot]]s and [[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]] may be headed there too.

[[File:Energon-Megatron-Torments-Demolishor.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|left|The head crushings will continue until morale improves.]]

In Asteroid City, Megatron demands more [[energon]] from his [[Terrorcon (Energon)|Terrorcon]]s. He gives [[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]] a drubbing for not finding more, wondering if his time among the Autobots affected his work habits. Demolishor notes that they should have stayed at [[Lunar City]], but that it's fortified now. Scorponok arrives and reports that Optimus Prime and company are headed for Lunar City. Megatron harshly asks Scorponok where he got the information; despite not sounding very convinced, Megatron leads some troops off to attack Prime there, while leaving Scorponok to carry out the Asteroid City ambush as a test of loyalty.

Alpha Q is pleased by this turn of events, and orders Scorponok to ensure Megatron's safety so Alpha Q can continue to use him.

The Autobots arrive in the asteroid belt. [[Kicker Jones|Kicker]] directs the search effort; he and [[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] note that Optimus Prime's been very much on his guard since the assassination incident on the [[Moon (moon)|Moon]].

[[File:Energon-Alpha-Q-Watches-Starscream-Vs-Optimus.jpg‎|upright=1.3|thumb|I can seee you!]]

The [[Decepticon]]s arrive at Lunar City and attack. The [[Omnicon]]s evacuate the mines in a panic.

Kicker identifies a particular asteroid. Hot Shot suddenly says something about Unicron and opens fire. After a moment, the others join in.

Starscream meets with Scorponok, wondering why everyone keeps calling him "Starscream". Scorponok tells him that he's a warrior under his command, and that's the end of it.

The Autobots aren't having much luck shooting the asteroid, which returns fire when Hot Shot goes to investigate. Alpha Q's ship emerges, but when the Autobots start to pursue, Starscream attacks. Optimus Prime holds him off, demanding answers. Starscream tells him he's under the command of Alpha Q, "supreme ruler of the [[universe (universe)|universe]]".

The others run into Scorponok, who makes short work of Jetfire and is ready to take on the rest. When the Autobots [[Powerlinx]] to engage, the ship departs, warping away, leaving Kicker adrift in space and freaking out, flashing back to his childhood.

[[File:Energon-Scorponok-Stings-Jetfire.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|left|Say uncle!]]

Optimus Prime learns that Alpha Q's mission is to revive [[Unicron]], but Alpha Q contacts Starscream and has him retreat before he reveals anything further. The [[Decepticon]]s arrive and watch how Scorponok handles himself against the Autobots.

Prime retrieves Kicker, while Hot Shot, Inferno and Ironhide move in to rescue Jetfire. Hot Shot distracts Scorponok, while Prime and Ironhide get in close, and manage to capture Scorponok. They ask him who he's working for. Megatron arrives, and the teams trade words. The Autobots realize there's an energon seam nearby, which the Decepticons gleefully detonate, setting the whole asteroid off. Both teams retreat. Kicker freaks out, then passes out, as the fragments explode around him. The Autobot rescue him.

The Autobots return to [[Earth]], regretting that they couldn't save Lunar City. Prime reports to [[Primus]] that they've "destroyed the fortress that once was home to Unicron". [[Misha Miramond|Misha]] finds Kicker, who vents about his own freak-outs and failures on the mission. Misha reassures him and offers advice. They watch as the city's population starts returning, and a ship emerges from the [[space bridge]]. [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]] welcomes [[Brian Jones|Dr. Jones]] to [[Ocean City]], who responds in his own unique fashion.

Meeting with the Autobots and the city's population, Dr. Jones proposes the creation of [[energon tower]]s to protect [[Blizzard City]], [[Desert City]], [[Jungle City]], and Ocean City, creating an impenetrable global [[energon grid]].
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Hot Shot (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Hot Shot]] (4)
*[[Optimus Prime (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[Ironhide (Energon)|Ironhide]] (6)
*[[Inferno (Energon)|Inferno]] (7)
*[[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]] (8)
*[[Prime Force]] (16)
*[[Skyblast (Energon)|Skyblast]]s (18)
*[[Strongarm (Energon)|Strongarm]]s (19)

|c2=
*[[Starscream (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (9)
*[[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]] (11)
*[[Cyclonus (Armada)|Cyclonus]] (13)
*[[Megatron (Armada)/Cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (14)
*[[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]] (15)

|c3=
*[[Carlos Lopez]] (1)
*[[Kicker Jones]] (2)
*[[Misha Miramond]] (21)
*[[Brian Jones|Dr. Brian Jones]] (22)
*[[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]] (23)

|c4=
*[[Alpha Quintesson|Alpha Q]] (10)
*[[Divebomb (Energon)|Divebomb]]s (12)
*[[Battle Ravage]]s (17)
*[[Primus]] (20)
}}

==Quotes==
"I gave you a very simple task, Demolishor, and that's to find me my energon. But it seems while you were on the Autobots' side their worthless work habits rubbed off on you!" 
"But sir, I'm trying my best! Maybe we should go back to Lunar City, remember? There was plenty left there—uuuuahhhhg!" 
"To Lunar City?!" 
"Yes! But the only problem is, since we were there last, Optimus fortified the place and it might be too dangerous!" 
"Are you implying I can't defeat a few mindless Autobots?!" 
"No, of course not! I just thought I'd point it out, that's all!"
:—'''Megatron''' makes us wonder why '''Demolishor''' is so keen to work for him.

"Prove to me your loyalty. And if you succeed, maybe I'll have some new-found respect for you! But to be honest, I rather ''doubt'' it."
:—'''Megatron''' isn't a Scorponok fan

'''Kicker:''' "There!" 
'''Optimus:''' "Is that it?" 
'''Kicker:''' "A hundred percent, Optimus." 
'''Jetfire:''' "But that asteroid looks almost alive!" 
'''Hot Shot:''' "Unicron?! But that's impossible, isn't it, sir?" 
[''opens fire''] 
'''Optimus:''' "Hot Shot! What do you think you're doing?" 
'''Kicker:''' ''Man, that's weird. As soon as Hot Shot mentioned the name Unicron, it's like everyone got all uptight. And I know that name from somewhere. Some kind of legendary gigantic Transformer who's the most powerful force in the universe. I think he's the one who attacked Cybertron.'' 
'''Hot Shot:''' "NO, Optimus! We've gotta destroy him! Now's our chance." 
'''Optimus Prime:''' "Open fire!" 
[''everyone opens fire''] 
'''Everyone:''' "YUUUAAAAAAHHH!!"
:—WHAT?

'''Scorponok:''' "Not even close! ...Fire two!" 
'''Hot Shot''' and '''Ironhide:''' "Whoah!" 
'''Ironhide:''' "But that was!" 
'''Hot Shot:''' "Cause his shots are spiked with ''energon!''" 
'''Ironhide:''' "Are you ''serious?!''"
:—Seriously, ''WHAT?''

"If you're trying to make me angry, you're doing a good job! But trust me, Junior... you wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
:—'''Megatron''' channels Bruce Banner

"Aw no. The power from my energon star's almost dry. Another blast like that and we're done for!"
:—'''Jetfire''' uses the royal we, or else thinks he's the only thing keeping the team alive.

"Planning?! How do you strategize against an enemy like Unicron?! ...If anybody can figure it out, Optimus can!"
:—'''Kicker''' argues with himself

"I ''guess'' it's safe for everyone to come home. I ''suppose'' that's good news. And look! They're coming through the ''space bridge'' right now."
:—'''Misha''' doesn't seem to understand why anyone would come back to Ocean City

"Some of you may find my ideas to be quite radical. However, after researching our strengths, I feel very confident in my proposal. My plan is for the creation of energon towers." 
"TOWERS?!"
:—'''Dr. Jones''' and '''Optimus Prime'''

"Something just isn't right..."
:—Amen, '''Optimus Prime'''.
{{--}}

==Note==
===Differences with ''Super Link''===
[[File:Battlefortheasteroidbelt comparisons.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Aw, come on.]]
A ''heck'' of a lot.

*The ''Energon'' version of this episode utilizes a lot of unfinished animation which was properly completed for the ''Super Link'' broadcast. These half-formed scenes have in turn influenced the script, leading to something that doesn't make a lot of sense. Primarily, the Decepticons are ''not'' based on an asteroid—they have brought a mobile base, spawned from Unicron, into the Asteroid Belt, and are operating out of that. This is what is destroyed at the conclusion of the episode. However, the mobile base is almost completely missing from the unfinished animation used for the ''Energon'' version of the episode (see screenshots at right), and the rough footage used puts either an asteroid or nothing at all in its place. References to the base are basically removed from the episode, except now a lot of things don't make sense, such as Hot Shot's claim that "the asteroid" is like Unicron (since the base shares several features with him), Ironhide and Prime pushing asteroids into the ship's path to block its movement, and the final scene of Prime reporting to Primus about its destruction (which is further warped into it "being home to Unicron", instead of being created from him).
*Many of the background paintings from the unfinished animation in ''Energon'' are different from the finished ''Super Link'' version. They are not ''wrong''—just different, and not as detailed. They are most noticeable in the closing scenes at Ocean City (for example, in the instance that puts the ''sky'' behind Kicker and Misha, instead of the rest of the building) and the Decepticons' visit to Lunar City, but they even extend to the layout of the clouds in the sky and the asteroids in space.
*In another case of background paintings gone awry, the energon towers are missing from the unfinished ''Energon'' animation (see right again), but the beams they generate are still present. As you can see, even the painting of Earth is different.
*Additionally, a whole scene is cut out of ''Energon'' when Kicker is caught in the explosion of the mobile base. After passing out, he has a hallucination of his protective suit being stripped from him, and an image of his father appearing before him. As he calls out to his father for help (which is something he would never do in real life—see, it's ''insightful''), more images of Doctor Jones appear, and then fade into the Autobots as Kicker wakes up and realizes who is really surrounding him. It's not clear if this is a product of the unfinished episode, or if it was something actively cut for ''Energon''.
*''Energon'' sees Demolishor claim that there's plenty of energon at Asteroid City, but that they just haven't found it yet, when in ''Super Link'', he states that there's none left. That's why the Decepticons go to Lunar City.
*The Decepticons are not planning any "ambush" on Asteroid City, they're just there for the energon.
*Kicker claims that Optimus Prime has been wary and looking over his shoulder, when in ''Super Link'', he says Optimus has been ''eager'' for a fight.
*Misha's musing about the residents of Ocean city returning makes it sound like they're ''all'' coming through the space bridge, when, in actuality, only Doctor Jones is coming through the space bridge (since he'd been on Cybertron until now). This stems from a previous error in "[[Energon Stars]]" which makes it seem like all the humans of Earth had been evacuated.

===Pain count===
*"Uh?": 13
*"We need/they want energon": 5
*"It's time to": 4

===Animation and technical errors===
*Hot Shot and Inferno both react and turn in response to Kicker ''thinking to himself''.
*Both Optimus and Cyclonus say "regroup" when they mean "retreat".
*While not necessarily an error and more of a fault of the CGI model, Starscream's sword spins all around his hand as he performs his tricks. As his hand is designed based on the toy, it has all of the vehicle mode, forearm-[[kibble]] incasing it, making any use of his hands impossible. Sheesh, even ''[[Transformers: Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]'' [[Smokescreen (Armada)|Smokescreen]]'s hands were still capable of movement despite ''his'' kibble.
*Megatron is depicted incredibly small off and on this episode, being only slightly taller than Cyclonus and Demolishor, rather than them coming up to his waist.

===Continuity notes===
*Despite being forcefully added to the Decepticon ranks, Scorponok is now working as a spy for Alpha Q.
*Since the evacuation of Ocean City in "Energon Stars", the humans operating in Ocean City have finally returned home.
*Gadgets and powers:
**One of the Strongarms has his [[energon weapon|crane arm/cannon]] attached to his shoulder.
**Skyblast fires lasers from his wrist vents.
**Scorponok fires lasers from his tail in robot and scorpion mode.
**Scorponok's tail stinger—being an energy weapon—can disconnect from him.
*[[Powerlinx]] forms:
**Optimus Prime [[Super Mode]]
**Powerlinx Hot Shot with Inferno
**Energon Saber
**Powerlinx Jetfire with Ironhide or Powerlinx Ironhide with Jetfire, Maybe? (''Energon'' has Hot Shot tell Jetfire to Powerlinx with Ironhide as he is "injured", yet no combination stock footage is used and the animation moves too fast to make out whether or not they were actually combined as the Autobot's evacuate the area).

===Continuity errors===
*[[Starscream the Mysterious Mercenary|Last episode]] Starscream obliterated the [[Prime Force]]. (He shot them and they exploded, leaving nothing left.) They are back in this episode with no explanation.
*Optimus Prime orders his team to Asteroid City. Scorponok reports that the Autobots are on their way to Lunar City and suggests an ambush there. Megatron leaves Scorponok at their current location, Asteroid City, to set up the ambush there as a test of loyalty. Somehow, they are actually going to manage to ambush the Autobots at their destination, but... wow.
*This episode incorrectly refers to Misha as "Meeka" once again.

===Real-world references===
*After Ironhide says to Megatron that he won't follow his orders Megatron says that "If you're trying to make me angry, you're doing a good job. But I warn you: you won't like me when I'm angry." This is clearly a reference to the [[Hulk]].

===Trivia===
*Paramount's home video releases list the title of the episode as "'''The''' Battle of the Asteroid Belt," despite the title card still naming the episode "Battle of the Asteroid Belt."
*Dr. Jones comes across as rather unhinged, touting the virtues of his energon tower grid against anyone "who ''dares'' attack us!!" and laughing hysterically after greeting Alexis (and leaving her with her arms crossed over her chest, looking ''very'' uncomfortable). This is pretty much how Doctor Jones is all the time in ''Super Link'', constantly giggling and making strange remarks, and it was (thankfully) downplayed for the ''Energon'' version (though whether through deliberate action or inept dubbing, it's hard to say). In the case of Alexis in this episode, ''Super Link'' saw Jones comment on how "mature and sexy" she'd grown up to be, and it's not hard to see why that got cut.
*This episode features a flashback to the ''[[Transformers: Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]'' episode "[[Origin]]". Exactly the same flashback is used again in the beginning of the episode "[[Battle Stations]]".
*Optimus Prime and Hot Shot's statements about "disposing" of Scorponok when Ironhide holds him at sword-point implies that the Autobots are planning on executing Scorponok on the spot once he answers their questions! That's pretty ruthless, not to mention unusually dark subject matter for a kids show.
*Much like Jetfire's gun being corrected in color last episode, Cyclonus's arm-cannons (the missiles on the toy), are now colored to a more neutral gray instead of the gold they were before. It's ''still'' not quite toy-accurate, as the missiles on the toy are the purple-lavender color of his rotor blades, but it's pretty close.
**The gold on the tips of his rotor blades has also been removed.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 2: The Return of Megatron ([[Paramount Pictures|Paramount]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 2: The Return of Megatron (Paramount)
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2004 — ''Transformer: Super Link'' — Volume 003 ([[Interchannel]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 2: The Return of Megatron (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 2: The Return of Megatron (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — Volume 2: The Return of Megatron (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2008 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Ultimate Collection (Paramount) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''Transformers: Energon'' — The Complete Series ([[Shout! Factory]])

[[Category:Energon episodes]]

Talk:Ruined FOREVER

2024-01-04T04:04:30Z

Thunderwave: /* Possible addtion - Pronouns? */

==Regarding deletion==
I see no point to having this article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:There are 4 instances of Ruined Forever on [[Transformers timeline|this page]] alone. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::I see no point to having those, either. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::JaAm has a page. 'Ruined Forever' is used ironically within the fandom- and this is clearly marked as a fandom article just like [[True fan]] is. Ruined Forever is clearly more prominent than [[Dull surprise]], though possibly not as widely as [[Neon]]. (Which now that I look at it need its opening quote reformatted...) My entire impetus for creating it was that Sntint made an ironic Ruined Forever joke on a talk page and I was like- "huh, why dont' we have a page for that?" (Well, also I wanted to wash the bad tast of [[Don Murphy|Don Murray]] out of my brain.)
:::Ruined Forever appears to rest comfortably within the range of existing articles on the Wiki, but I am content to allow others to decide. If a majority think it's not relevant to Transformers the article can be deleted, as always. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::::I say it's as relevant as Playskool, neon, and FIRRIB. {{unsigned|Terrocon Blot}}
:::::And Derik on the rebound to make me feel dumber. It's not enough that I misspelled my own screenname, he's also got to sign my posts for me. Damn that Derik. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 07:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the page. As already stated, a number of other pages already exist to explain similar fandom colloquialisms. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 13:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't see this article as explaining anything. It seems to exist purely to ridicule fandom behavior that we don't like, and thus I see no point to keeping it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay too. Where else would terms like ''Ruined FOREVER'', [[Furmanism]], and Chewed caramels be documented for all time, if not here?--[[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 14:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Do these fandom terms need to be ones that are famous/infamous, known or used widely? Then how about TFW2005's 'HE TELL ME' (in reference to that guy who claimed Peter Cullen was cast as RID Prime)? TFW2005 is probably the most prominent of the Transformers fan sites, as well as the one that Hasbro seems to unofficially prefer. I personally never even heard of 'dull surprise' until I read it on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Nor I. But I don't think we're just documenting memes-- each of these articles, Truk !Munky, Chewed caramels even JaAm are 'about' a belief/response/tendency in fandom- not just the phrase used to illustrate it. Dull Surprise is a belief the masturbatory praise heaped on Superstar Funana was undeserved, JaAm is about the backlash against Dreamwave's style-over-sanity lack of visual storytelling, Truk not Monkey encompasses both knee-jerk hatred of BW and frustration about knee-jerks, and Chewed caramels ''seems'' to be about a desire that all TF toylines subscribe to some broad interpretation of G1's design aesthetic. I doubt anyone put ''conscious thought'' into this, but the fandom-meme articles people found worthy of creating aren't ''just'' about the phrase- they're about phrases that expresses something larger about how fans relate to Transformers.
::(I'm not familiar with 'HE TELL ME' and where it may fall with this.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think dull surprise is way too limited in use (basically just #wiigii! as far as I know) to really belong here, but Derik does sort of have a point about the article being about a little more than that. I also don't know "HE TELL ME" but it sounds like something worth considering -- claims of unnamed inside sources and all that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Oops, it was actually Peter Cullen as Armada Prime. The posts (being from 2002), no longer exists, but fortunately blitz_64 managed to save the posts for posterity [http://www.geocities.com/blitz_64/HETELLME.html The Saga of HE TELL ME and GoOP].

::::Actually, Steve-o, I'd say "Secret Inside Sources" would be a more appropriate meme/article to describe that last one. Having never heard of "HE TELL ME", and seeing that few others apparently have either, I'm not sure it's as much a meme as "Secret Inside Sources" is.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Around the same period, I recall some other idiot who claimed to be a Hasbro photographer and described crazy things like the Mini-Cons becoming body armour and Prime's minicon transforming into his Matrix. These claims, while totally false, were important because they apparently spurred Aaron to emerge as ORSON and totally destroy that other dude, IIRC. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I remember that quite vividly indeed. The guy who claimed to be the photographer actually revealed himself over [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26415&st=20&p=551756&#entry551756 at the Allspark this year], actually. Oh yeah, and I think the animu thing was 4Chan leakage [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=animu].--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I say we keep it. [[User:Compy-Rex|Compy-Rex]] 18:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Compy-Rex
:If this page is deleted I will cry. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 05:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

==Usage==
Has "ruined forever" ever been used seriously by fans? While it describes a real and annoying sentiment, I'm not sure I like basing an article on a phrase that was sarcastic in the first place. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I'm sure something very similar, at least, has been used. But regardless, you say that it describes a real sentiment, so, what's the problem? Can you recommend a better title for the article? Or are you saying the article shouldn't exist at all? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well, my vote is for not existing at all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I (and a number of others) used to think "Rapeing my childood" was only used for sarcastic reasons. Then I read the thread on the promo poster for Transformers Animated, which had a number or people using the seriously. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Has Trukk not Munky ever been used in a non Ironic/Sarcastic way? It's still a catchphrase used by the fandom, as is this. Both rate articles under the fandom category, IMo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:The '''scream your head off in outraged panic''' / '''call for mass-firings or send death threats over something that has/will ruin/ed TF''' ''behavior'' of this article certainly was in evidence during Beast Machines- and I think the "sky is falling" aspect is amply evidenced by the sheer ''number'' of times fans have declared TF ruined forever. (And, clearly, been wrong every time, or every time but 1 depending on your belief system.)
:If you have some other title you'd prefer for this article like 'Clicken-Little Syndrome' by all means propose it and see what people think, but the article speaks to a genuine (and highly mockable) aspect of fandom psychology.
:And frankly, while the ''behavior'' itself is worthy of ridicule, the ''reason'' for it- an exaggerated concern for the health and future of the brand- is actually kinda ''endearing'' and speaks well of fans. At least their ''hearts'' are in the right place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

==Paul Dini==

I think accusing the fandom of saying the art style of Paul Dini ''the writer'' being used for Animated will "RUIN TRANSFORMERS FOREVER" is making the article simply too mean-spirited. I've never seen any individual display the idiocy we're accusing the fandom of with that line. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 05:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have.
Scary, scary stuff.

Also, the last line of the entry seems to cut a little into the humor by overexplaining. Replace it with a "general hasbro idiocy" linking to "transformers" or somesuch?

==Marked for deletion.==

This is getting out of hand.

This page has become the epicenter of an edit war that has gone on for nearly a week now. As of the time of this writing, only six other pages link to this article. While I fully support the light tone of Teletraan I, and I understand that some explanation of aspects of the fandom complete the Wiki, I believe this particular article and debate at this point only detracts from the issue.

I DO agree that it was biased in the form in which it existed before our anonymous editor "friend" decided to change it, but I do not think that matters any longer. This article does not add anything inherently positive to the wiki, indeed, it does not chronicle anything positive ''or'' negative about Transformers itself at all. Its relation to Transformers is tangential at best.

By deleting this, we would not lose anything except the beginnings of what appear to be the modern equivalent of a Usenet flamewar. Deleting it, I believe, can only benefit Teletraan I. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 12:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree. I didn't feel this article was necessary, and I still don't. I agree that the fandom is full of idiots who never bothered to grow up after 1986, but our mockery of them doesn't belong in the wiki. Not to say that Mister "integrity of the characters" is right, though. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm putting in a vote for keeping it. It's a fun article to read, and it speaks a lot of truth in it's wonderfully snarky way.--[[User:Gouki|Gouki]] 12:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Snarkyness can be fun but this article is just pushing it, IMO. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::I think it should stay, it's funny. Also, if you delete it then the terrorists win.
::::::I would keep it. I think it describes a real sentiment, that needs to be pointed out as overblown. [[User:JW|JW]] 13:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The edit war was only between registered users and a single unregistered dude. I've fixed things, at least for the moment, by protecting the page from unregistered editors. If you're gonna get in a pissy editing war, we'd damn well better know who you are. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Our anonymous friend is from the Netherlands, if anybody cares. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This "Ruined FOREVER" article is stupid and don't make any sense. Its just shit

: [[Seafood Louis]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if the opinion of an anon means anything, but I think this article is freaking hilarious. I was talking with a friend about TF:Animated and he said that the girl with the transforming bike 'ruined it permanently' so I linked him this article. He laughed and said, 'ok, well maybe I'm over-reacting.'

I think the article is funny and provides valuable perspective. {{unsigned|66.167.253.76}}
: Well said, citizen. [[User:JW|JW]] 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've cancelled out the other anon from earlier, at any rate. And yeah, I agree with your assessment of it.--[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Same --[[User:Chiasaur11|Chiasaur11]]

I happen to think this article is incredibly useful in charting the tendency for all fans everywhere (but especially TF fans) to react in comical and hyperbolic ways. I think the breadth of what people determine can/has ruined TF forever automatically makes the article an amusing and insightful look for the novice fan into the fandom's reactionary past.

Indeed, I actually have shown this article to people just coming back (or getting into) TF. It's inspired about as many laughs as it has genuine curiosity as to what the fandom and franchise are like as entities. Isn't that the idea of this wiki? I would think reference materials as to the history of the fandom, good and bad, are always a boon.

(and that aside, I just think it's really, really funny)

.... Aaaaaaand I had to go and screw up. Bah. That's me above. --[[User:Cmdr Crayfish|Cmdr Crayfish]] 10:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

==Where do we draw the line?==
How do we stop this from becoming just a giant list of everything that anyone has ever expressed any dislike for ever? Why, for instance, is ''The Beast Within'' in there? Or Gonzo (which I thought was generally accepted as at least ''better'' than We've, even if not as good at Mainframe)? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've kinda been watching this list grow with some mild irritation- it went from about 1 item for every 2 years to ''twice'' that in fairly short order, and that bothers me.
:I've sorta resolved to edit the list down this October, pruning it (so to speak) with some opportunity for people to say what should stay and what should go.
:The Beast Within has to stay though- at the ''very'' least it ruined the Dinobots forever- now whenever George Rodd brings up combiner Dinobots we have to grudgingly admit they're canon. Also, it was the reason for the article's creation in the first place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why wait? If we want this to be a list of developments that prompted widespread fury that lingered for years, we can shorten it to "Actionmasters, BW, BM, Armada, Hallit, and Bay," and perhaps a few others, right now. Then a "Trivia" note saying that The Beast Within really DID ruin Transformers, or at least Dinobots, forever. Just a thought... but yeah, having every single series in there dilutes the point. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 19:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Problem is, how do you decide what deserves to be listed as ruining TF forever, if none of it really did in the first place. I've seen just about everything listed there used as an example of why ____ TF series/movie/toyline will fail--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 20:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, Thy, I'd append your list with a general "*-masters" thing, as a lot of armchair CEOs claim that the entire -master trend killed the line, not the fact that it had, you know, run its course. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 14:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'll just basically agree with Thy and Hoop that whatever's listed here should have a certain "endurance" as a scapegoat. The turnaround of opinion on Animated was what, two weeks? "* Masters" certainly counts, as should Pretenders. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::What, a simple a Google newsgroup search for [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22killed+transformers%22&start=10&sa=N&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&|"killed transformers"] ain't enough? /:] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I doubt I'd get objections if I added it, but I'd like to throw it by the community: Should we readd [[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Kiss Players]]? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 04:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I really think Animated should stay in there, if only because it's '''such a dramatic departure.''' Turn around was fast, but the initial reaction was strong. I mean, for the first time in fifteen years of being a fan, I actually found myself muttering "My god... they've finally done it. It's ruined..." --[[User:70.190.251.10|70.190.251.10]] 05:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

beast wars didnt reuin tf beast machines sorta did but it was still quite good ,if u ignore some minor things - Unsigned post by [[User:80.6.180.141|80.6.180.141]]
:You're missing the point of the article, then. The point is that every time something new comes along, the fandom screams about how it will ruin Transformers forever, when in reality it's usually the opposite. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Last Deletion Locked in?==
Spotted a couple of points on the list removed by [[Special:Contributions/Teletraan|someone who seems to like deleting stuff just because]], but when I tried to restore the page, it was already locked. Were his edits accepted, then?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:There are two facets to this. First, without occasional pruning, the list in this article tends to grow, and grow, and grow. Every now and then, someone has to come along and cut it back. Since this is a wiki, the question of what gets cut is made by the person willing to do the cutting.
:The second facet is that the items cut were in fact less core to the "ruined forever" concept. "Runined forever" is a cry that springs up whenever ''something new is added to the Transformers brand'' by HasTak, and it happens every single time. Thus, the fans ''can't'' ruin TF forver, because they don't add new canon. And, while HasTak ''can'' ruin TF forever, it's because they're the only ones who can do so. I.e., one of the cut items was in error, and one was redundant. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
::Fair enough, I suppose. It was a combination of both the deletions and the person who committed them that made me question their validity.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:::Yah, user Teletraan is not exactly a primo contributor. Still, this particular edit seems (at minimum) defensible. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

==Masters of the Universe link==
I've never, ever been interested in MOTU, so I have no idea what was the cause of the revamp line's failure, but given the extreme slant of the article, I can only assume it failed because it concentrated on collectors rather than kids. If so, why does it link to a Wikipedia article that cites Mattel's ''"excessive focus on attempting to mass-market the line to a new generation of children rather than focusing on a safer collector-based approach"'' as the reason for the line's failure? Am I missing something or does that sound like the line tanked because it focused on selling toys to kids rather than what this article is railing against? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
: Guess who wrote the Wikipedia article. (Hint: It wasn't kids.) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:: The fact is the line failed, no one can say *exactly* why. There are reasons for both oppinions.

::'''Fact:''' The line DID court fans rather than kids in many ways. It didn't reinvent the boat but took the exact looks, exact characters, and in some cases even exact stories the fans clamored for and did them again, only better, prettier, smarter, and more "realisticly". In that respect it was pretty much EXACTLY what older fans of '80s properties clamor for, and said fans generally loved it. But for whatever reason it never caught on with '''actual kids''' in the way the simple, campy, primitive, bowlegged original did. So some see that and blame the line's failure on the older fan mentality.

::'''Also Fact:''' Mattel tried to sell the toyline the way they had Batman. I.E. A million goofy variations on He-man and Skelator (and one or two others) and everyone else was almost impossible to find or didn't get a figure at all. This was very much NOT what collectors wanted. Many blame it for the line's failure at retail, arguing that part of what made the original a hit where the huge variety of strange and different warriors and monsters that Mattel had left out this time in favor of flooding the shelves with He-man repaints and ill-concieved alterations (The entire wave of "samori repaints on stilts" is often pointed to, but are only one of many examples.) Some see this and blame an ill-concieved inapropriate retail stratagy aimed at marketing to kids having crippled the line's retail appeal.

::Personally I think there's some truth to BOTH. For whatever reason (timing, approach, luck,) the older fan oriented cartoon never clicked with the kiddies, '''AND''' the Batman-style retail stratagy was a bad choice for a MOTU type toyline. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was the feeling I got, that is there is no clear cut side to 'blame', and in this case, I think we should ditch the Masters of the Universe link, given the information there contradicts the slant of this article, and in any case it's not a clear cut case of 'it's all the collectors fault'. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Hrm, there's some legitimate thought there... but it ruins the G.I. Joe comparison. (Why catering to adult collectors and abandoning attempts at reinvention is a losing strategy in the long run necause ther old dudes die off and uyou're not bringing new fans in.)
::::For what it's worth, I meant from design and marketing- I agree that the actual toyline was schitzophrenic- alternating between a slavish adherence to the original designs and case assortments aimed at kida who weren't watching the cartoon.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Here's an idea - how about one of you guys (who actually know about MOTU) edit the wikipedia article so it's more balanced, so we don't end up looking like idiots in this article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that even in today's environment, the military has ''some'' pull to kids. Not so much the gay, gay fur-bikini barbarians. Sword-and-sorcery has some appeal nowadays, but mostly when it's very Japanesey kids-anime-style. (One could also note that the "big" Joe revival frankly isn't very big. It's pretty damn low-key, really, where He-Man was some major-league THIS WILL BE BIG!!! Lower expectations = greater chance of meeting and exceeding them.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd also imagine that production costs on the 25th anniversary Joe figs are pretty darn reasonable on Hasbro's bookkeeping. They've done similar lines for Star Wars for decades, so they know what they're doing.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really annoyed that the GI Joe 25th line isn't available here, because Hasbro AU's last attempt to revive GI Joe in Australia totally tanked. If you can believe it, Toys R Us stores here languished under piles of unsold Cobra Trooper 6-packs, which, as I've read in forums, collectors were fighting over. They're not on pegs anymore, so I guess they've been shredded or incinerated by now.--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So have we decided on this link yet? The Wikipedia link still contradicts the snarky joke link of this article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:It's always going to, because there will always, ''always'' be enough people who are going to make sure that the bullshit boogeyman "CASE RATIOS!! CASE RATIOS!!! KIDS WANTED ALL THOSE OBSCURE ONE-EPISODE GUYS AND USELESS MINOR VILLANS!!!!!" (while patently ignoring the fact that if you can't sell your ''two primary characters in the line'', maybe there's something wrong with your franchise, not case ratios... it'd be like if a Batman line couldn't sell toys of Batman) is squarely blamed for MOTU's failure. Frankly, I'd say just add a note to OUR article saying "ignore the bullshit about case ratios. Kids just didn't want a line about a boring gay man in a fur bikini." --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ignoring your general disdain for He-man here, and even the whole case ratio issue, the fact remains that saying (as our snark does) that the newer He-man line "catered exclusively to older collectors" and that this caused its failure is both unprovable, AND very widely disputed. I'd say we should remove the link on those issues alone. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC) (-'''Edit:''' On a side-note, given the apparent success of the 25th ann. line and the coming movie, the critical G.I.Joe link in there may soon be meaninglessly out of date as well...)

:::And this is my point - we'll start looking like idiots who can't even get our facts or jokes straight if we insist on keeping these links. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I see Zac's point- but I think he's reacting to something that's not in the article. We're holding the MOTU reboot as an example of a line that abandoned all attempt at reinvention. Since there ''was'' not reinvention in the reboot line, at all, this should not be up for dispute.
:::We do not say that this is ''why'' the line failed. It probably ''was'', but we don't say that. We merely hold it up as an apporach that's probably unhealthy for Transformers to follow.
:::So to be really blunt-- I don't care what whiny fanboys may have edited Wikipedia to say in support of their view that the line was perfect and viable the way it was. '''A)''' That's masturbatory. '''B)''' It's not what this article is talking about, so it's simply not relevant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::But it says 'cater exclusively to the old-school collectors', which the line evidently did not do. In which case, regardless of if we are holding up as an approach that TF should not follow, it's not a good example in the context of the very joke-link, especially if it sends the reader to an article that disputes the joke. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::In this context, that 'catering' refers to design, not case assortments. We're discussing ''reinvention''. One does not 'reinvent' case assortments! And in terms of designs, characters etc... MOTU ''did'' cater. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::More to the point- we're discussing changign the content on ''this'' page because highly dubious artument on Wikipedia disagrees with something ''we're not even saying here''.
:::::If Wikipedia had a bullshit argument we were actually refuting I might kinda understand this. But we're not! We are actually arguing about removing a link to an article because fanboys have jizzed across it in ways that contradict things our article ''doesn't'' say, but which 'might run through that same fanboy's mind as they read our article.'
:::::While '''I''' clearly feel the fanboy argument is specious-at-best '''it doesn't matter'''. We say it catered to collectors. That's it! '''It's just an example of one extreme a toyline can take.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why is The [[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Armada]] series , [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] series, the [[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]], and [[Exclusive]]s listed here?[[User:Autobot Soundwave|Autobot Soundwave]] 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because fans reacted [[Trukk not munky|very]] [[Pokeformers|negatively]] to a lot of these things, which went on to become major successes. It's satire. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because they ruined Transformers forever, of course.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the list ==

The Cliff Notes version: there's very little reason to.

The full version: Contrary to what [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER many people think], this is not a list of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER everything Transformers ever]. It is not even a list of everything Transformers that fans have ever complained about. It is a list of the relative handful of times that something ground-shaking and new has come along, something totally different from what's gone before, something that's not exactly like 1984, that causes people to complain that Transformers has irrevocably jumped the shark and begun sinking into an irreversible oblivion. All this doomsaying is then typically followed by the franchise surging back to life as the awful horrible new thing turns out to be a smashing success. Alternately, the horrible new thing quietly fades away while the franchise chugs along to the next new thing.

Thing is, anybody who's stuck with Transformers to this point is used to these reinventions. Perspective has grown long enough that plenty of fans now understand that anything they don't like will be gone in a year or two. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I only read the Allspark boards and they're fairly intelligent, but cries of RUINED FOREVER are increasingly rare these days.

I don't see why Drift is on the list. Plenty of people think he sucks, but nobody's claiming he's going to bring down the whole franchise. ''All Hail Megatron'' would be a better candidate, because people (including myself!) ''are'' claiming that IDW's whole storyline has been permanently destroyed by it. (You could also make a case for ''Energon'' ("bad anime"), ''Prime Directive'' ("MATURE ADULT XXX" or "Buckets of Blood" or "Pat Lee"), and/or Dreamwave ("The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man", "Superstars", "Bankruptcy").

I don't see why stolen prototypes are on the list. Yeah, some of us make a fuss over them. Y'know why? Because HASBRO THEMSELVES HAS SAID THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. There's no ridiculously overblown grasping-at-straws fandom absurdity to mock here.

And I'd need to see a LOT of linked posts before I'd accept ROTF on the list. I can't fathom someone having complaints about ROTF that didn't also apply to the first movie. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:10, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

:There are new complaints about ROTF - about [[Mudflap (ROTF)|these]] [[Skids (ROTF)|two]].--[[Special:Contributions/172.162.17.159|172.162.17.159]] 08:34, 10 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree with Repowers 100%. If anything, I think the list could use some trimming. Are people complaining about the Twins? Sure! Is ANYONE saying that Transformers, as a franchise, is over/tainted? Umm ... not that I've heard. Certainly no substantial block of the fandom.
::And stolen prototypes, while I DO think people make a somewhat biggish deal about them, don't really belong on the list either. A: as Repowers points out, Hasbro itself has legitimized the concern. B: people getting annoyed about something is NOT the same as saying that the Transformers brand is beyond recovery. Hell, even AHM seems like a stretch. I think that most of the fandom has gained enough hindsight to know that, at worst, AHM represents a change in direction for *IDW'S* story, but certainly not the end of Transformers as we know it. Hell, ROTF and Animated were contemporary, and both were tremendous successes.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 09:48, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure we we can't have Energon on this list, seeing all the complaints on this very wiki, but, eh.--[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] 08:00, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:I disagree. I've read on here that people LIKED it at first, but eventually lost faith/the will to live after watching it. The list chronicles the events which work the OTHER way around. [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 09:07, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I'd say the list has nothing to do with how good something is, but more with complaints from the fandom and especially even before the thing in question has been released. Having said that, does RiD really warrant a place on the list? Was there really that much of a commotion about it? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm surprised "G1 Bayformers", aka Don Figueroa's new drawing style isn't on this list, given that almost every single opinion on it I found was a flame.....--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:30, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::I loath it to the core of my petty, petty being... but i don't see it as something that will kill or taint the franchise. Kiss-Player is still squicking people ''years'' later... the fact the Japanese owners basically licensed TF loli guro porn is something that genuinely shocks people and lessens their opinion of TF as a whole-- especially since it's not one of those 'worse than it sounds' things, the closer you look, the more disturbing it actually gets. An unpleasant art style inflicted on the comparatively small comic-book audience... just isn't in the same ballpark.
::::I think it's harmed ''IDW'''s Transformers brand equity... people seem a lot more skeptical and a lot more negative of editorially-generated jerking around of the TF brand, because they've now repeatedly dumped directions they committed to in order to chase imaginary gains that never materialized-- apparently heedless of the negative baggage piled on the story in the process. (One more major reset in pursuit of some sort of magical deckchair configuration the editors are convinced is more important than telling good stories... and I might as well be reading DC!) But not the brand overall. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Not to get all chat roomy here, but... what he said. Oh dear lord, WHAT HE SAID. (Derik, have you posted that sentiment to IDW's boards?) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

==How about that B.O.T episode==

To many fans, it's considered to be the worst G1 episode ever, so I think it should be placed here. [[User:Dinoman96|Dinoman96]] 17:23, 23 November 2009 (EST)
:Yea, but this isn't a list of what people just call "bad" - it's a list of the things that threw the fandom into a colossal uproar and actually caused people to say Transformers was ruined forever, more for the fact that they were drastically or outlandishly new and different than for their actually being of poor quality. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

==Drift==
Shouldn't we add [[Drift (G1)| this Mary Sue]] to Runied FOREVER? {{unsigned|24.62.9.241}}
:No. He hasn't ruined anything forever. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:55, 17 August 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe you should read the page above before you add to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

==A quick question (not about adding additional items)...==

Anyone else think that a funnier name for ''Prime'' would be Bayformers Teen Titans? I ask because we've got Bayformers and Teen Titans on the list, and Bayformers Animated kind of throws off the flow. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:03, 16 December 2010 (EST)
:To me at least, "Bayformers Animated" flows much better than "Bayformers Teen Titans". --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 20:04, 16 December 2010 (EST)
::A fair point. I meant it more in the manner of fitting with what else was in the article. Not a big deal either way, I suppose. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:12, 16 December 2010 (EST)

== Parodies of this page in other media ==

Just in case you didn't noticed it, this page has been parodied several times and in different media:

* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER (As noted, this wiki is the trope namer for "Ruined FOREVER")
* http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx
* http://www.helloweenboard.com/topic/4063-seven-sinner-discussion-thread/page__view__findpost__p__336072
* http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47999&page=1
* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER
* http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/warmachine/163237-blight-spreading-nites-cryx-blog.html#post1416664
* http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Ruined_FOREVER
{{unsigned|201.212.60.105}}

:I love how the Wookiepedia people completely missed the point. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:40, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::...their version seems basically the same sarcastic treatment as ours. Are you reading a different page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:43, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
:::They seemed a lot more concerned with insignificant detail than this wiki is. However, in retrospect, "completely missed the point" was a bit strong on my part. Maybe the Star Wars fandom is more temperamental than we are? [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:49, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::::"''MAYBE''", he says! :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
: Not really parodies, more just... versions. [[User:Esser-Z|Esser-Z]] 11:40, 29 December 2011 (EST)
::Adaptations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:54, 29 December 2011 (EST)

== Literal for once ==

Pat Lee. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:31, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
: Transformers survived him, so not really literally, no. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:00, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:: The franchise as a whole, but not Dreamwave. Or his reputation. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
::: Not the point of the page. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 21:20, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

== Autobots who didn't turn into cars ==

[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/615489-what-characters-killed-g1.html Transformers was ruined FOREVER in 1985!] Seriously.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:39, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
:TFW2005 ruined Transformers forever.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 15:07, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

== Dark of the Moon ==
*The first and second movies by Michael bay are on the list, but why not the third. Lots of people complained about the third one. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 07:49, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
::Getting on this page takes more than simple complaints. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:16, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

== Rescue Bots ==
I propose adding rescue bots to this list, only listed as rescue heroes, or Eureka. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 20:26, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:...but it's universally beloved. Surely no Transformers fan could hate ''fun''?! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:51, 12 December 2012 (EST)
::While I agree that in moderation fun is enjoyable, its creation did cause the standard "Ruined FOREVER" response that would deem it necessary to add to the page in the best interests of keeping an accurate database. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 18:29, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::...Which died down about a week later, with only the few stubborn mules of the fandom remaining intolerant of it. This list contains things that have had lasting backlash that ran deep. Rescue Bots never got such deep-filled hatred as the things covered by this list. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:09, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== Windblade ==
Given the kerfuffle a certain segment of the fanbase made over Windblade, ahould she and/or her series be added to this list? And if so, as what? [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 22:10, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:This is just me, but I'd say we wait a bit more and see how her series and its portrayal of her character are received first. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
::You know this fandom better than I do... I'm not always active in forums or anything... so I'll defer to your judgement. But from what I heard, the drama got really stupid at some points. [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 21:45, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:::The loudmouths are a minority at this point, people are being really vocal about how much they're enjoying the book. People are being mixed about whether they like the writing or the art more, but in general I'm seeing a favorable response to the art and an appreciation for its snappy writing. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] ([[User talk:Antimatter|talk]]) 22:06, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
::::IMO the drama was less to do with Windblade and more about the "brief conflict" between Scott and Furman referenced on ''Spotlight: Arcee'''s page - the worst criticism of Windblade I've seen is that she's kinda dull so far (and that was from me). I remember Drift raising far more ire when he was introduced and Drift isn't listed here. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 02:58, 23 April 2014 (EDT)
:::::That's because IDW shilled Drift as "super cool" and that he'd be "their Wolverine". Windblade, on the other hand, wasn't shilled as a super cool "Wolverine", which is probably why she's been received better than Drift was.[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] ([[User talk:Spin-Out|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2014 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Star Saber's English-language bio for the Australian release ==

Wow, the nerdrage over a little bonus addition for a limited run official import of a Japanese toy that references established IDW fiction is ''amazing''. If that bio doesn't ruin Transformers FOREVER, nothing can.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:11, 4 February 2015 (EST)
:As always, my instinct in a situation like this is to wait for at least 3-4 months to see if there is widespread and sustained griping. Many people want to find a way to include, well, virtually everything on this page, and most TF franchises just don't get that level of sustained vitriol to warrant inclusion.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:20, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::I don't think we even need to be that conservative. Nobody is going to claim that one regional release of one toy has ''ruined the entire Transformers franchise''. There's no new innovation or franchise re-invention going on here. It's just one bio on one toy and some people raging for a day or two.
::As I've said before, RUINED FOREVER is not just "BUHR ME FAN HATE THING". It's "This new and different thing means that Transformers cannot and will not ever be good again" (add "because new things are bad" as needed), followed by Transformers surviving, thriving, and continuing to be good. In this age of live action movies, there's not much left that can shake the franchise to its core like that. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 00:04, 5 February 2015 (EST)

== DOTM Soundwave and Wheeljack cancelled in USA ==

Is that ruined forever? Many fans compalined about them cancelled and how they got too many Bumblebees.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 06:43, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:No, that is not "ruined forever". Ruined Forever is large scale complaining about things that have supposedly irredeemably damaged the brand. And the complaining has to continue for a long period of time. Fans were upset about this, but it didn't drag on for years and years. Or even months and months. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:52, 10 February 2015 (EST)

== Autobot Megatron ==

Alot of fans were really upset with Megatron joining the autobots...That can be considered as a `RUINED FOREVER".
[[User:Hyruk|Hyruk]] ([[User talk:Hyruk|talk]]) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:This doesn't sound like something that happened. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] ([[User talk:Nu-Priest|talk]]) 18:13, 10 February 2015 (EST)
::Megatron never joined the Autobots ([[Megatron (SG)|though there is a mirrorverse Megatron of course]]) but we don't talk about fanfics, only official fiction.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 08:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
:::Go read the IDW comics, it happened. Or wait for [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Leader|this toy]]. But again, this is nowhere near the level of complaining that is necessary for Ruined Forever. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
::::But what's wrong if Megatron is an Autobot? It's supposed to be nice because that means there are no Decepticons and no war.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 03:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
:::::Which would pretty much END the fiction. No conflict, no drama, no story.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)

In the allinged continuity, he becomes an Autobot in the Beast Hunters Predicons Rising movie. [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 23:09, 1 August 2015 (EDT)

=="Radical Feminist SJWs"==

Can we remove this entry from the list? It just seems like pointless flamebait to me- not to mention that in my experience, practically nobody believes that female Transformers "ruined" the brand. I mean, you have some people (including the mighty Simon Furman himself) who find the idea of gender in a race of robots kinda silly because, well, they're robots- an opinion I personally disagree with but still understand- but in all my time as a Transformers fan I've never seen ANYONE having the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the existance of female Transformers that this entry is implying, even on the 4chan Transformers threads.

Plus, quite aside from anything else, it's an open invitation for LOLDRAMA and not even that funny.[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 12:43, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

* As far as I can tell, the only people who had trouble with it were the writers for some of the comics, under the justification that as automata, Transformers shouldn't have genders. That said, no one complained and after Arcee's head-turning introduction to the series, more of them showed up without incident, meaning either a shift in attitude or pressure from Hasbro.

: So yeah, pretty much. Don't need it. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 14:44, 11 December 2015 (EST)

Nnnnnyeah, that one's staying.
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/125522205664
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/124075222269
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/122682384287
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/129784394268
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/128712971726
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/121195549217
There is literally an entire Tumblr dedicated to cataloging angry reactions to women in Transformers and how "social justice" is ruining it further. Hundreds of entries. If you missed all of it, then you're blessed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:13, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:I mean, seriously, this is one of the few entries on the page that can [http://fusion.net/story/182445/misogynistic-fans-cant-deal-with-the-new-female-transformers/ actually be supported by articles] [http://www.avclub.com/article/hasbro-declares-war-boys-announcing-female-transfo-218595 on non-Transformers websites]. It belongs on here more than most others, if this were a wiki which was going for any kind of Wikipedia-style notability. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:16, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:: Well, my day is ruined forever. I could seriously have gone my whole life without learning about this tumblr.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 15:20, 11 December 2015 (EST)
Meh, most of the posts linked in that Tumblr (or at least the ones you linked) seemed to be fairly reasonable, and far from the outright disgust that usually accompanies cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Heck, there were actually a few fairly valid points here and there amidst the "I disagree with the direction IDW is taking the franchise" posts (most notably that men might be better at managing/marketing a boy-oriented toyline, just as women might be better for girl-oriented toylines). Unless "Ruined FOREVER" now means "Not everyone agrees this is a 100% good thing" I still think it's a pretty petty, unnecessary addition to an otherwise decent article. Now if you want real Ruined Forever butthurt just look at the reactions to Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook and Blastoff-as-a-jet.

Also, you aren't helping your case any by linking to clickbait articles. C'mon, we're better than this.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:08, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:...wow. Now this entry is staying even more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:18, 20 December 2015 (EST)
I beg your pardon? Is simply stating the fact that the cited sources did not display a particularly vicious level of backlash, especially compared to, say, the absolute atomic butthurt experienced by the fandom due to the existence of Alpha Bravo and the other CW newbies, now some kind of capital offence? I certainly don't think I said anything that even remotely deserved that level of condescension.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:44, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::No, no, he needed to use more condescension. You're agreeing with some awful-ass bigoted shit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 17:58, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Yeah, I was toning it down, really. Because the contention that new Combiner components complaints were somehow more vicious and awful than the shit leveled at the existence of more female TFs, including female TFs who don't look like metal Barbies (adding a nice layer of transphobia to the mix) is patently ridiculous, repulsive horseshit, and you are NOT going to win this one, so just stop now. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:01, 20 December 2015 (EST)

Both those websites linked push agendas up the asshole, and pulling shit off some obscure Tumblr page doesn't really help one's argument. Also, it's funny seeing Walky defend entry. Why don't we compromise? Remove the shit about feminism and SJWs and replace it with something like... "More female Transformers"? It makes the people mad look like strawmen, but it's a start. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek]]~~ ([[User talk:TheTFGeek:talk]])
:Oh, and I won't be able to reply immediately because I'll be hitting the hay soon. Please take into consideration my idea and try to act civilized (not that you all aren't). Oh, and apologies for attacking you like that, Walky. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Hahahahah "agendas" hahahahhahahahah no. No, it is not going away. Coddling bigoted, misogynistic shit is not "civilized", its scummy and won't be tolerated here. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:::I would sooner raze this website to the ground than allow something I pay for to coddle smallminded 4chan concern trolling about "agendas." It stays. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 03:57, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::Shit, I was trying to act nice and compromise, but, alright, have it your way. Also, M, are you telling me you really can't tell when news sites push agendas? ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::::Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 12:32, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha this fool won't actually argue with me and has to reply in a insulting manner hahahahahahahahah ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:It's interesting how nobody's ever asked that this article be more polite about fans who hate Beast Wars or the live-action films or whatever. No, it's just the fans who hate female characters who deserve that! [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 07:31, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Gamergate has finally reached our shores. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::I had a good feeling someone would bring that up... ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::I wonder why. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:I'm unclear regarding how the obscurity or otherwise of the tumblr page is relevant when it is reposting stuff people have said on a major Transformers fan site. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:56, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::My two Euro-Cents: Do I ''personally'' need female Transformers? Not necessarily. Do I hate the concept of female Transformers? Hell no. Do I oppose the introduction of more female Transformers characters? Not if they're written well, which they seem to be for the most part. (I particularly enjoy Nautica!) Is the backlash hilariously over the top? Absolutely. Is it indicative of misogyny deeply rooted in many members of our jolly little fandom? Definitely. Does it belong on this page? Well, of course.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 17:13, 21 December 2015 (EST)

==Locked==
If ever there was a page that deserved to be locked, it's this one. The idea that it needs some debate before we go ahead and add something here is a good one, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 08:37, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Thank you for listening to me instead of laughing at my posts and automatically assuming I'm a troll. I'd add some insulting stuff in this next sentence, but I don't want to further agitate people. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Right, I just got an idea for a bullet point; combining Dinobots, which were summarily Ruined FOREVER to the fandom after [[The Beast Within]]. It's pretty clear that that topic should probably be on here under a bullet point, at least to me. [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 17:00, 17 February 2016 (EST)

== Combiner Wars ==

Anyone else think Combiner Wars (cartoon) should be added to the list? [[User:Jcbynum1|Jcbynum1]] 23:11, 27 September 2016 EST
:No, the point of this list is things which whiners ridiculously claim have ruined Transformers but in fact have not. Terribly made productions are a separate thing. You don't see the RotF film on here with its dismally low critical reception, do you? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:19, 27 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sipher gave a big fat NO to that previously, so it's a no go. This page isn't for everything terrible or everything new, just specific stuff that was widely, irrationally feared by the fandom to spell certain irreparable doom for the Transformers brand. As bad as the CW cartoon was, it was hyped up with much anticipation and hailed by some as a sort of Second Coming of G1 in cartoon form. People were dying to see this cartoon and were thinking it could be the greatest thing ever, the very opposite of the "Ruined FOREVER" concept. And once it came out, while people saw how bad it was, they still knew that it wouldn't ruin the brand like they thought the things on this page would. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:21, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

== Apparently IDW is adding another to the list ==

According to some people 'stuck in 1984', shall we say, at least, [[Rom the Space Knight|Multi-property crossovers]] are Ruining FOREVER! Transformers as a stealth way to phase out all the 1984-introduced characters we know and love. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 04:26, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:Once again, the list's entry requirements are not a simple as "some people complained about it". (If they were, literally everything the brand has ever done would be on the list.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 05:19, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

== HasCon ==
Given the fans' unfavorable reaction to the newest convention, any hopes for adding this to the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 13:21, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
:Has Hascon been actually accused being something that will "ruin the Transformers brand forever", or have the negative reactions just been a general dislike of some of the con's aspects? If only the latter, then no, it wouldn't be added to this page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:53, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
::Well, looks like HasCon is spared from the fires of this page. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 02:23, 15 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Great, that omission has made this page worthless. "Transformers: Ruined FOREVER" ruined FOREVER. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 23:30, 22 October 2017 (EDT)
::::At this point I would support the removal of the list of things that have ruined Transformers forever, just to make it easier to keep the page from being indiscriminately added to. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:06, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::It's already locked so only administrators can edit the page. I think bringing prospective items here means we can limit what's added all right, even if some people are going to disagree with the outcome of the discussion. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:42, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::I for one was trying to make a joke. I'm not really concerned about HasCon being on this page. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 10:17, 26 October 2017 (EDT)

== Hasbro acquiring TakTom ==
Oh boy, this is a big one. This is going to be mentioned to this page in the future if this happens. https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/speculation-hasbro-looking-to-acquire-takara-tomy/39978/ (NOTE: This is speculation) [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 10:25, 8 November 2017 (EST)
UPDATE: Yup, that "Unifying the Brands" happened. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Cade's quote in TLK ==
Should you add Cade's "That is ''not'' Optimus" quote in this page as a meta reference to the fans and the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Beast? ==

Given the frequency of the two subjects popping up together, I am actually curious. Has anyone ever accused the Beast of ruining the franchise forever? Or is it one of those thankfully obscure things that only really comes up on this wiki and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZDj3DwXD4 The Cinema Sins review of ''Power Rangers''?] --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 17:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:I think it's one of those things that isn't obscure among TFdom, but it's also not exactly mainstream media like most of the things on that list.
:It prob belongs on this list, tho. [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 18:35, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
::The point of this list is not "bad things in the Transformers franchise" but "things the fandom overreacted to". Nobody cared about the Beast because it's a British pack-in comic that has zero influence on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:42, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:::Have you... ''seen'' the Beast, Saix? I don't know if I'd say "no influence"...
:::But in all seriousness, he is correct. Pretty much anyone who goes on a TF news-site or the like can be exposed to mainline show or comic and react to it. The Beast is more one of those things that only hardcore fans (and/or us wiki editors) really understand the reference to. It's horrifying, but not "controversial". [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 22:09, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

== Toy Distributions in 2020 ==

Looks like this example has potential given the negative reactions regarding Hasbro's lack of distribution in some countries like the UK. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 04:52, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
: No. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 07:50, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
:: (Late response) Okay, I understood. But I'm also here to remind you that the responses to the exclusives these days are alarmingly clear. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:49, 26 October 2020 (EDT)

== NFTs ==
Yup. <big>'''''Definitely'''''</big> [https://news.tfw2005.com/2022/03/07/transformers-x-funko-nft-collection-series-1-announced-451207?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter new entry worthy]. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 22:32, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:Probably not for this page, because this is a sarcastic list of things that people overreact to but turn out to not be that bad in the long run. NFTs don't quite fit that, being unironically and unabashedly terrible. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 22:49, 7 March 2022 (EST)
::Yeah, no. NFTs are ''objectively'' shit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:57, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:::Okay. Maybe I should SERIOUSLY read the page carefully next time. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 00:03, 8 March 2022 (EST)

== MOTU no longer a good example ==
In the years since the intro was written, Netflix She-Ra and "kid" He-Man have shown that that property can be rebuilt to appeal to new, more diverse audiences. GIJoe still entombed in amber, though. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:51, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
:Honestly, Joe as the sole punchline without Mickey or MOTU feels more effective anyway. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:08, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

== Possible addtion - Pronouns? ==
Considering the uproar about Nightshade's pronouns being mentioned like, twice, maybe we could add Pronouns to the list and tag them? (Cue all those people saying that EarthSpark is indoctrinating children lol)
Or add Nightshade to the "SJW" part, since "woke" and "SJW" are pretty much used synonymously nowadays -- [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 18:51, 3 January 2024 (EST)
: I don't see any mention of that storm in a teacup on <s>his</s> their page, and frankly I'm disinclined to give the matter any oxygen. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:26, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:: "His"? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 20:40, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::guh it's been a long day --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:42, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::: Valid, let's leave this topic to the whiners on Reddit and X... fingers crossed they'll get used to it in season 2! -- [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 23:03, 3 January 2024 (EST)

Talk:Ruined FOREVER

2024-01-04T04:04:16Z

Thunderwave: /* Possible addtion - Pronouns? */

==Regarding deletion==
I see no point to having this article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:There are 4 instances of Ruined Forever on [[Transformers timeline|this page]] alone. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::I see no point to having those, either. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::JaAm has a page. 'Ruined Forever' is used ironically within the fandom- and this is clearly marked as a fandom article just like [[True fan]] is. Ruined Forever is clearly more prominent than [[Dull surprise]], though possibly not as widely as [[Neon]]. (Which now that I look at it need its opening quote reformatted...) My entire impetus for creating it was that Sntint made an ironic Ruined Forever joke on a talk page and I was like- "huh, why dont' we have a page for that?" (Well, also I wanted to wash the bad tast of [[Don Murphy|Don Murray]] out of my brain.)
:::Ruined Forever appears to rest comfortably within the range of existing articles on the Wiki, but I am content to allow others to decide. If a majority think it's not relevant to Transformers the article can be deleted, as always. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::::I say it's as relevant as Playskool, neon, and FIRRIB. {{unsigned|Terrocon Blot}}
:::::And Derik on the rebound to make me feel dumber. It's not enough that I misspelled my own screenname, he's also got to sign my posts for me. Damn that Derik. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 07:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the page. As already stated, a number of other pages already exist to explain similar fandom colloquialisms. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 13:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't see this article as explaining anything. It seems to exist purely to ridicule fandom behavior that we don't like, and thus I see no point to keeping it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay too. Where else would terms like ''Ruined FOREVER'', [[Furmanism]], and Chewed caramels be documented for all time, if not here?--[[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 14:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Do these fandom terms need to be ones that are famous/infamous, known or used widely? Then how about TFW2005's 'HE TELL ME' (in reference to that guy who claimed Peter Cullen was cast as RID Prime)? TFW2005 is probably the most prominent of the Transformers fan sites, as well as the one that Hasbro seems to unofficially prefer. I personally never even heard of 'dull surprise' until I read it on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Nor I. But I don't think we're just documenting memes-- each of these articles, Truk !Munky, Chewed caramels even JaAm are 'about' a belief/response/tendency in fandom- not just the phrase used to illustrate it. Dull Surprise is a belief the masturbatory praise heaped on Superstar Funana was undeserved, JaAm is about the backlash against Dreamwave's style-over-sanity lack of visual storytelling, Truk not Monkey encompasses both knee-jerk hatred of BW and frustration about knee-jerks, and Chewed caramels ''seems'' to be about a desire that all TF toylines subscribe to some broad interpretation of G1's design aesthetic. I doubt anyone put ''conscious thought'' into this, but the fandom-meme articles people found worthy of creating aren't ''just'' about the phrase- they're about phrases that expresses something larger about how fans relate to Transformers.
::(I'm not familiar with 'HE TELL ME' and where it may fall with this.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think dull surprise is way too limited in use (basically just #wiigii! as far as I know) to really belong here, but Derik does sort of have a point about the article being about a little more than that. I also don't know "HE TELL ME" but it sounds like something worth considering -- claims of unnamed inside sources and all that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Oops, it was actually Peter Cullen as Armada Prime. The posts (being from 2002), no longer exists, but fortunately blitz_64 managed to save the posts for posterity [http://www.geocities.com/blitz_64/HETELLME.html The Saga of HE TELL ME and GoOP].

::::Actually, Steve-o, I'd say "Secret Inside Sources" would be a more appropriate meme/article to describe that last one. Having never heard of "HE TELL ME", and seeing that few others apparently have either, I'm not sure it's as much a meme as "Secret Inside Sources" is.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Around the same period, I recall some other idiot who claimed to be a Hasbro photographer and described crazy things like the Mini-Cons becoming body armour and Prime's minicon transforming into his Matrix. These claims, while totally false, were important because they apparently spurred Aaron to emerge as ORSON and totally destroy that other dude, IIRC. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I remember that quite vividly indeed. The guy who claimed to be the photographer actually revealed himself over [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26415&st=20&p=551756&#entry551756 at the Allspark this year], actually. Oh yeah, and I think the animu thing was 4Chan leakage [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=animu].--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I say we keep it. [[User:Compy-Rex|Compy-Rex]] 18:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Compy-Rex
:If this page is deleted I will cry. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 05:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

==Usage==
Has "ruined forever" ever been used seriously by fans? While it describes a real and annoying sentiment, I'm not sure I like basing an article on a phrase that was sarcastic in the first place. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I'm sure something very similar, at least, has been used. But regardless, you say that it describes a real sentiment, so, what's the problem? Can you recommend a better title for the article? Or are you saying the article shouldn't exist at all? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well, my vote is for not existing at all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I (and a number of others) used to think "Rapeing my childood" was only used for sarcastic reasons. Then I read the thread on the promo poster for Transformers Animated, which had a number or people using the seriously. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Has Trukk not Munky ever been used in a non Ironic/Sarcastic way? It's still a catchphrase used by the fandom, as is this. Both rate articles under the fandom category, IMo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:The '''scream your head off in outraged panic''' / '''call for mass-firings or send death threats over something that has/will ruin/ed TF''' ''behavior'' of this article certainly was in evidence during Beast Machines- and I think the "sky is falling" aspect is amply evidenced by the sheer ''number'' of times fans have declared TF ruined forever. (And, clearly, been wrong every time, or every time but 1 depending on your belief system.)
:If you have some other title you'd prefer for this article like 'Clicken-Little Syndrome' by all means propose it and see what people think, but the article speaks to a genuine (and highly mockable) aspect of fandom psychology.
:And frankly, while the ''behavior'' itself is worthy of ridicule, the ''reason'' for it- an exaggerated concern for the health and future of the brand- is actually kinda ''endearing'' and speaks well of fans. At least their ''hearts'' are in the right place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

==Paul Dini==

I think accusing the fandom of saying the art style of Paul Dini ''the writer'' being used for Animated will "RUIN TRANSFORMERS FOREVER" is making the article simply too mean-spirited. I've never seen any individual display the idiocy we're accusing the fandom of with that line. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 05:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have.
Scary, scary stuff.

Also, the last line of the entry seems to cut a little into the humor by overexplaining. Replace it with a "general hasbro idiocy" linking to "transformers" or somesuch?

==Marked for deletion.==

This is getting out of hand.

This page has become the epicenter of an edit war that has gone on for nearly a week now. As of the time of this writing, only six other pages link to this article. While I fully support the light tone of Teletraan I, and I understand that some explanation of aspects of the fandom complete the Wiki, I believe this particular article and debate at this point only detracts from the issue.

I DO agree that it was biased in the form in which it existed before our anonymous editor "friend" decided to change it, but I do not think that matters any longer. This article does not add anything inherently positive to the wiki, indeed, it does not chronicle anything positive ''or'' negative about Transformers itself at all. Its relation to Transformers is tangential at best.

By deleting this, we would not lose anything except the beginnings of what appear to be the modern equivalent of a Usenet flamewar. Deleting it, I believe, can only benefit Teletraan I. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 12:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree. I didn't feel this article was necessary, and I still don't. I agree that the fandom is full of idiots who never bothered to grow up after 1986, but our mockery of them doesn't belong in the wiki. Not to say that Mister "integrity of the characters" is right, though. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm putting in a vote for keeping it. It's a fun article to read, and it speaks a lot of truth in it's wonderfully snarky way.--[[User:Gouki|Gouki]] 12:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Snarkyness can be fun but this article is just pushing it, IMO. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::I think it should stay, it's funny. Also, if you delete it then the terrorists win.
::::::I would keep it. I think it describes a real sentiment, that needs to be pointed out as overblown. [[User:JW|JW]] 13:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The edit war was only between registered users and a single unregistered dude. I've fixed things, at least for the moment, by protecting the page from unregistered editors. If you're gonna get in a pissy editing war, we'd damn well better know who you are. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Our anonymous friend is from the Netherlands, if anybody cares. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This "Ruined FOREVER" article is stupid and don't make any sense. Its just shit

: [[Seafood Louis]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if the opinion of an anon means anything, but I think this article is freaking hilarious. I was talking with a friend about TF:Animated and he said that the girl with the transforming bike 'ruined it permanently' so I linked him this article. He laughed and said, 'ok, well maybe I'm over-reacting.'

I think the article is funny and provides valuable perspective. {{unsigned|66.167.253.76}}
: Well said, citizen. [[User:JW|JW]] 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've cancelled out the other anon from earlier, at any rate. And yeah, I agree with your assessment of it.--[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Same --[[User:Chiasaur11|Chiasaur11]]

I happen to think this article is incredibly useful in charting the tendency for all fans everywhere (but especially TF fans) to react in comical and hyperbolic ways. I think the breadth of what people determine can/has ruined TF forever automatically makes the article an amusing and insightful look for the novice fan into the fandom's reactionary past.

Indeed, I actually have shown this article to people just coming back (or getting into) TF. It's inspired about as many laughs as it has genuine curiosity as to what the fandom and franchise are like as entities. Isn't that the idea of this wiki? I would think reference materials as to the history of the fandom, good and bad, are always a boon.

(and that aside, I just think it's really, really funny)

.... Aaaaaaand I had to go and screw up. Bah. That's me above. --[[User:Cmdr Crayfish|Cmdr Crayfish]] 10:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

==Where do we draw the line?==
How do we stop this from becoming just a giant list of everything that anyone has ever expressed any dislike for ever? Why, for instance, is ''The Beast Within'' in there? Or Gonzo (which I thought was generally accepted as at least ''better'' than We've, even if not as good at Mainframe)? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've kinda been watching this list grow with some mild irritation- it went from about 1 item for every 2 years to ''twice'' that in fairly short order, and that bothers me.
:I've sorta resolved to edit the list down this October, pruning it (so to speak) with some opportunity for people to say what should stay and what should go.
:The Beast Within has to stay though- at the ''very'' least it ruined the Dinobots forever- now whenever George Rodd brings up combiner Dinobots we have to grudgingly admit they're canon. Also, it was the reason for the article's creation in the first place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why wait? If we want this to be a list of developments that prompted widespread fury that lingered for years, we can shorten it to "Actionmasters, BW, BM, Armada, Hallit, and Bay," and perhaps a few others, right now. Then a "Trivia" note saying that The Beast Within really DID ruin Transformers, or at least Dinobots, forever. Just a thought... but yeah, having every single series in there dilutes the point. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 19:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Problem is, how do you decide what deserves to be listed as ruining TF forever, if none of it really did in the first place. I've seen just about everything listed there used as an example of why ____ TF series/movie/toyline will fail--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 20:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, Thy, I'd append your list with a general "*-masters" thing, as a lot of armchair CEOs claim that the entire -master trend killed the line, not the fact that it had, you know, run its course. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 14:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'll just basically agree with Thy and Hoop that whatever's listed here should have a certain "endurance" as a scapegoat. The turnaround of opinion on Animated was what, two weeks? "* Masters" certainly counts, as should Pretenders. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::What, a simple a Google newsgroup search for [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22killed+transformers%22&start=10&sa=N&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&|"killed transformers"] ain't enough? /:] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I doubt I'd get objections if I added it, but I'd like to throw it by the community: Should we readd [[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Kiss Players]]? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 04:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I really think Animated should stay in there, if only because it's '''such a dramatic departure.''' Turn around was fast, but the initial reaction was strong. I mean, for the first time in fifteen years of being a fan, I actually found myself muttering "My god... they've finally done it. It's ruined..." --[[User:70.190.251.10|70.190.251.10]] 05:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

beast wars didnt reuin tf beast machines sorta did but it was still quite good ,if u ignore some minor things - Unsigned post by [[User:80.6.180.141|80.6.180.141]]
:You're missing the point of the article, then. The point is that every time something new comes along, the fandom screams about how it will ruin Transformers forever, when in reality it's usually the opposite. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Last Deletion Locked in?==
Spotted a couple of points on the list removed by [[Special:Contributions/Teletraan|someone who seems to like deleting stuff just because]], but when I tried to restore the page, it was already locked. Were his edits accepted, then?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:There are two facets to this. First, without occasional pruning, the list in this article tends to grow, and grow, and grow. Every now and then, someone has to come along and cut it back. Since this is a wiki, the question of what gets cut is made by the person willing to do the cutting.
:The second facet is that the items cut were in fact less core to the "ruined forever" concept. "Runined forever" is a cry that springs up whenever ''something new is added to the Transformers brand'' by HasTak, and it happens every single time. Thus, the fans ''can't'' ruin TF forver, because they don't add new canon. And, while HasTak ''can'' ruin TF forever, it's because they're the only ones who can do so. I.e., one of the cut items was in error, and one was redundant. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
::Fair enough, I suppose. It was a combination of both the deletions and the person who committed them that made me question their validity.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:::Yah, user Teletraan is not exactly a primo contributor. Still, this particular edit seems (at minimum) defensible. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

==Masters of the Universe link==
I've never, ever been interested in MOTU, so I have no idea what was the cause of the revamp line's failure, but given the extreme slant of the article, I can only assume it failed because it concentrated on collectors rather than kids. If so, why does it link to a Wikipedia article that cites Mattel's ''"excessive focus on attempting to mass-market the line to a new generation of children rather than focusing on a safer collector-based approach"'' as the reason for the line's failure? Am I missing something or does that sound like the line tanked because it focused on selling toys to kids rather than what this article is railing against? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
: Guess who wrote the Wikipedia article. (Hint: It wasn't kids.) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:: The fact is the line failed, no one can say *exactly* why. There are reasons for both oppinions.

::'''Fact:''' The line DID court fans rather than kids in many ways. It didn't reinvent the boat but took the exact looks, exact characters, and in some cases even exact stories the fans clamored for and did them again, only better, prettier, smarter, and more "realisticly". In that respect it was pretty much EXACTLY what older fans of '80s properties clamor for, and said fans generally loved it. But for whatever reason it never caught on with '''actual kids''' in the way the simple, campy, primitive, bowlegged original did. So some see that and blame the line's failure on the older fan mentality.

::'''Also Fact:''' Mattel tried to sell the toyline the way they had Batman. I.E. A million goofy variations on He-man and Skelator (and one or two others) and everyone else was almost impossible to find or didn't get a figure at all. This was very much NOT what collectors wanted. Many blame it for the line's failure at retail, arguing that part of what made the original a hit where the huge variety of strange and different warriors and monsters that Mattel had left out this time in favor of flooding the shelves with He-man repaints and ill-concieved alterations (The entire wave of "samori repaints on stilts" is often pointed to, but are only one of many examples.) Some see this and blame an ill-concieved inapropriate retail stratagy aimed at marketing to kids having crippled the line's retail appeal.

::Personally I think there's some truth to BOTH. For whatever reason (timing, approach, luck,) the older fan oriented cartoon never clicked with the kiddies, '''AND''' the Batman-style retail stratagy was a bad choice for a MOTU type toyline. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was the feeling I got, that is there is no clear cut side to 'blame', and in this case, I think we should ditch the Masters of the Universe link, given the information there contradicts the slant of this article, and in any case it's not a clear cut case of 'it's all the collectors fault'. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Hrm, there's some legitimate thought there... but it ruins the G.I. Joe comparison. (Why catering to adult collectors and abandoning attempts at reinvention is a losing strategy in the long run necause ther old dudes die off and uyou're not bringing new fans in.)
::::For what it's worth, I meant from design and marketing- I agree that the actual toyline was schitzophrenic- alternating between a slavish adherence to the original designs and case assortments aimed at kida who weren't watching the cartoon.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Here's an idea - how about one of you guys (who actually know about MOTU) edit the wikipedia article so it's more balanced, so we don't end up looking like idiots in this article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that even in today's environment, the military has ''some'' pull to kids. Not so much the gay, gay fur-bikini barbarians. Sword-and-sorcery has some appeal nowadays, but mostly when it's very Japanesey kids-anime-style. (One could also note that the "big" Joe revival frankly isn't very big. It's pretty damn low-key, really, where He-Man was some major-league THIS WILL BE BIG!!! Lower expectations = greater chance of meeting and exceeding them.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd also imagine that production costs on the 25th anniversary Joe figs are pretty darn reasonable on Hasbro's bookkeeping. They've done similar lines for Star Wars for decades, so they know what they're doing.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really annoyed that the GI Joe 25th line isn't available here, because Hasbro AU's last attempt to revive GI Joe in Australia totally tanked. If you can believe it, Toys R Us stores here languished under piles of unsold Cobra Trooper 6-packs, which, as I've read in forums, collectors were fighting over. They're not on pegs anymore, so I guess they've been shredded or incinerated by now.--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So have we decided on this link yet? The Wikipedia link still contradicts the snarky joke link of this article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:It's always going to, because there will always, ''always'' be enough people who are going to make sure that the bullshit boogeyman "CASE RATIOS!! CASE RATIOS!!! KIDS WANTED ALL THOSE OBSCURE ONE-EPISODE GUYS AND USELESS MINOR VILLANS!!!!!" (while patently ignoring the fact that if you can't sell your ''two primary characters in the line'', maybe there's something wrong with your franchise, not case ratios... it'd be like if a Batman line couldn't sell toys of Batman) is squarely blamed for MOTU's failure. Frankly, I'd say just add a note to OUR article saying "ignore the bullshit about case ratios. Kids just didn't want a line about a boring gay man in a fur bikini." --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ignoring your general disdain for He-man here, and even the whole case ratio issue, the fact remains that saying (as our snark does) that the newer He-man line "catered exclusively to older collectors" and that this caused its failure is both unprovable, AND very widely disputed. I'd say we should remove the link on those issues alone. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC) (-'''Edit:''' On a side-note, given the apparent success of the 25th ann. line and the coming movie, the critical G.I.Joe link in there may soon be meaninglessly out of date as well...)

:::And this is my point - we'll start looking like idiots who can't even get our facts or jokes straight if we insist on keeping these links. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I see Zac's point- but I think he's reacting to something that's not in the article. We're holding the MOTU reboot as an example of a line that abandoned all attempt at reinvention. Since there ''was'' not reinvention in the reboot line, at all, this should not be up for dispute.
:::We do not say that this is ''why'' the line failed. It probably ''was'', but we don't say that. We merely hold it up as an apporach that's probably unhealthy for Transformers to follow.
:::So to be really blunt-- I don't care what whiny fanboys may have edited Wikipedia to say in support of their view that the line was perfect and viable the way it was. '''A)''' That's masturbatory. '''B)''' It's not what this article is talking about, so it's simply not relevant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::But it says 'cater exclusively to the old-school collectors', which the line evidently did not do. In which case, regardless of if we are holding up as an approach that TF should not follow, it's not a good example in the context of the very joke-link, especially if it sends the reader to an article that disputes the joke. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::In this context, that 'catering' refers to design, not case assortments. We're discussing ''reinvention''. One does not 'reinvent' case assortments! And in terms of designs, characters etc... MOTU ''did'' cater. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::More to the point- we're discussing changign the content on ''this'' page because highly dubious artument on Wikipedia disagrees with something ''we're not even saying here''.
:::::If Wikipedia had a bullshit argument we were actually refuting I might kinda understand this. But we're not! We are actually arguing about removing a link to an article because fanboys have jizzed across it in ways that contradict things our article ''doesn't'' say, but which 'might run through that same fanboy's mind as they read our article.'
:::::While '''I''' clearly feel the fanboy argument is specious-at-best '''it doesn't matter'''. We say it catered to collectors. That's it! '''It's just an example of one extreme a toyline can take.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why is The [[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Armada]] series , [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] series, the [[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]], and [[Exclusive]]s listed here?[[User:Autobot Soundwave|Autobot Soundwave]] 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because fans reacted [[Trukk not munky|very]] [[Pokeformers|negatively]] to a lot of these things, which went on to become major successes. It's satire. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because they ruined Transformers forever, of course.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the list ==

The Cliff Notes version: there's very little reason to.

The full version: Contrary to what [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER many people think], this is not a list of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER everything Transformers ever]. It is not even a list of everything Transformers that fans have ever complained about. It is a list of the relative handful of times that something ground-shaking and new has come along, something totally different from what's gone before, something that's not exactly like 1984, that causes people to complain that Transformers has irrevocably jumped the shark and begun sinking into an irreversible oblivion. All this doomsaying is then typically followed by the franchise surging back to life as the awful horrible new thing turns out to be a smashing success. Alternately, the horrible new thing quietly fades away while the franchise chugs along to the next new thing.

Thing is, anybody who's stuck with Transformers to this point is used to these reinventions. Perspective has grown long enough that plenty of fans now understand that anything they don't like will be gone in a year or two. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I only read the Allspark boards and they're fairly intelligent, but cries of RUINED FOREVER are increasingly rare these days.

I don't see why Drift is on the list. Plenty of people think he sucks, but nobody's claiming he's going to bring down the whole franchise. ''All Hail Megatron'' would be a better candidate, because people (including myself!) ''are'' claiming that IDW's whole storyline has been permanently destroyed by it. (You could also make a case for ''Energon'' ("bad anime"), ''Prime Directive'' ("MATURE ADULT XXX" or "Buckets of Blood" or "Pat Lee"), and/or Dreamwave ("The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man", "Superstars", "Bankruptcy").

I don't see why stolen prototypes are on the list. Yeah, some of us make a fuss over them. Y'know why? Because HASBRO THEMSELVES HAS SAID THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. There's no ridiculously overblown grasping-at-straws fandom absurdity to mock here.

And I'd need to see a LOT of linked posts before I'd accept ROTF on the list. I can't fathom someone having complaints about ROTF that didn't also apply to the first movie. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:10, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

:There are new complaints about ROTF - about [[Mudflap (ROTF)|these]] [[Skids (ROTF)|two]].--[[Special:Contributions/172.162.17.159|172.162.17.159]] 08:34, 10 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree with Repowers 100%. If anything, I think the list could use some trimming. Are people complaining about the Twins? Sure! Is ANYONE saying that Transformers, as a franchise, is over/tainted? Umm ... not that I've heard. Certainly no substantial block of the fandom.
::And stolen prototypes, while I DO think people make a somewhat biggish deal about them, don't really belong on the list either. A: as Repowers points out, Hasbro itself has legitimized the concern. B: people getting annoyed about something is NOT the same as saying that the Transformers brand is beyond recovery. Hell, even AHM seems like a stretch. I think that most of the fandom has gained enough hindsight to know that, at worst, AHM represents a change in direction for *IDW'S* story, but certainly not the end of Transformers as we know it. Hell, ROTF and Animated were contemporary, and both were tremendous successes.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 09:48, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure we we can't have Energon on this list, seeing all the complaints on this very wiki, but, eh.--[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] 08:00, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:I disagree. I've read on here that people LIKED it at first, but eventually lost faith/the will to live after watching it. The list chronicles the events which work the OTHER way around. [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 09:07, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I'd say the list has nothing to do with how good something is, but more with complaints from the fandom and especially even before the thing in question has been released. Having said that, does RiD really warrant a place on the list? Was there really that much of a commotion about it? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm surprised "G1 Bayformers", aka Don Figueroa's new drawing style isn't on this list, given that almost every single opinion on it I found was a flame.....--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:30, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::I loath it to the core of my petty, petty being... but i don't see it as something that will kill or taint the franchise. Kiss-Player is still squicking people ''years'' later... the fact the Japanese owners basically licensed TF loli guro porn is something that genuinely shocks people and lessens their opinion of TF as a whole-- especially since it's not one of those 'worse than it sounds' things, the closer you look, the more disturbing it actually gets. An unpleasant art style inflicted on the comparatively small comic-book audience... just isn't in the same ballpark.
::::I think it's harmed ''IDW'''s Transformers brand equity... people seem a lot more skeptical and a lot more negative of editorially-generated jerking around of the TF brand, because they've now repeatedly dumped directions they committed to in order to chase imaginary gains that never materialized-- apparently heedless of the negative baggage piled on the story in the process. (One more major reset in pursuit of some sort of magical deckchair configuration the editors are convinced is more important than telling good stories... and I might as well be reading DC!) But not the brand overall. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Not to get all chat roomy here, but... what he said. Oh dear lord, WHAT HE SAID. (Derik, have you posted that sentiment to IDW's boards?) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

==How about that B.O.T episode==

To many fans, it's considered to be the worst G1 episode ever, so I think it should be placed here. [[User:Dinoman96|Dinoman96]] 17:23, 23 November 2009 (EST)
:Yea, but this isn't a list of what people just call "bad" - it's a list of the things that threw the fandom into a colossal uproar and actually caused people to say Transformers was ruined forever, more for the fact that they were drastically or outlandishly new and different than for their actually being of poor quality. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

==Drift==
Shouldn't we add [[Drift (G1)| this Mary Sue]] to Runied FOREVER? {{unsigned|24.62.9.241}}
:No. He hasn't ruined anything forever. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:55, 17 August 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe you should read the page above before you add to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

==A quick question (not about adding additional items)...==

Anyone else think that a funnier name for ''Prime'' would be Bayformers Teen Titans? I ask because we've got Bayformers and Teen Titans on the list, and Bayformers Animated kind of throws off the flow. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:03, 16 December 2010 (EST)
:To me at least, "Bayformers Animated" flows much better than "Bayformers Teen Titans". --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 20:04, 16 December 2010 (EST)
::A fair point. I meant it more in the manner of fitting with what else was in the article. Not a big deal either way, I suppose. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:12, 16 December 2010 (EST)

== Parodies of this page in other media ==

Just in case you didn't noticed it, this page has been parodied several times and in different media:

* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER (As noted, this wiki is the trope namer for "Ruined FOREVER")
* http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx
* http://www.helloweenboard.com/topic/4063-seven-sinner-discussion-thread/page__view__findpost__p__336072
* http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47999&page=1
* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER
* http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/warmachine/163237-blight-spreading-nites-cryx-blog.html#post1416664
* http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Ruined_FOREVER
{{unsigned|201.212.60.105}}

:I love how the Wookiepedia people completely missed the point. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:40, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::...their version seems basically the same sarcastic treatment as ours. Are you reading a different page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:43, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
:::They seemed a lot more concerned with insignificant detail than this wiki is. However, in retrospect, "completely missed the point" was a bit strong on my part. Maybe the Star Wars fandom is more temperamental than we are? [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:49, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::::"''MAYBE''", he says! :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
: Not really parodies, more just... versions. [[User:Esser-Z|Esser-Z]] 11:40, 29 December 2011 (EST)
::Adaptations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:54, 29 December 2011 (EST)

== Literal for once ==

Pat Lee. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:31, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
: Transformers survived him, so not really literally, no. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:00, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:: The franchise as a whole, but not Dreamwave. Or his reputation. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
::: Not the point of the page. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 21:20, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

== Autobots who didn't turn into cars ==

[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/615489-what-characters-killed-g1.html Transformers was ruined FOREVER in 1985!] Seriously.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:39, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
:TFW2005 ruined Transformers forever.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 15:07, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

== Dark of the Moon ==
*The first and second movies by Michael bay are on the list, but why not the third. Lots of people complained about the third one. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 07:49, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
::Getting on this page takes more than simple complaints. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:16, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

== Rescue Bots ==
I propose adding rescue bots to this list, only listed as rescue heroes, or Eureka. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 20:26, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:...but it's universally beloved. Surely no Transformers fan could hate ''fun''?! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:51, 12 December 2012 (EST)
::While I agree that in moderation fun is enjoyable, its creation did cause the standard "Ruined FOREVER" response that would deem it necessary to add to the page in the best interests of keeping an accurate database. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 18:29, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::...Which died down about a week later, with only the few stubborn mules of the fandom remaining intolerant of it. This list contains things that have had lasting backlash that ran deep. Rescue Bots never got such deep-filled hatred as the things covered by this list. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:09, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== Windblade ==
Given the kerfuffle a certain segment of the fanbase made over Windblade, ahould she and/or her series be added to this list? And if so, as what? [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 22:10, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:This is just me, but I'd say we wait a bit more and see how her series and its portrayal of her character are received first. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
::You know this fandom better than I do... I'm not always active in forums or anything... so I'll defer to your judgement. But from what I heard, the drama got really stupid at some points. [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 21:45, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:::The loudmouths are a minority at this point, people are being really vocal about how much they're enjoying the book. People are being mixed about whether they like the writing or the art more, but in general I'm seeing a favorable response to the art and an appreciation for its snappy writing. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] ([[User talk:Antimatter|talk]]) 22:06, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
::::IMO the drama was less to do with Windblade and more about the "brief conflict" between Scott and Furman referenced on ''Spotlight: Arcee'''s page - the worst criticism of Windblade I've seen is that she's kinda dull so far (and that was from me). I remember Drift raising far more ire when he was introduced and Drift isn't listed here. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 02:58, 23 April 2014 (EDT)
:::::That's because IDW shilled Drift as "super cool" and that he'd be "their Wolverine". Windblade, on the other hand, wasn't shilled as a super cool "Wolverine", which is probably why she's been received better than Drift was.[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] ([[User talk:Spin-Out|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2014 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Star Saber's English-language bio for the Australian release ==

Wow, the nerdrage over a little bonus addition for a limited run official import of a Japanese toy that references established IDW fiction is ''amazing''. If that bio doesn't ruin Transformers FOREVER, nothing can.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:11, 4 February 2015 (EST)
:As always, my instinct in a situation like this is to wait for at least 3-4 months to see if there is widespread and sustained griping. Many people want to find a way to include, well, virtually everything on this page, and most TF franchises just don't get that level of sustained vitriol to warrant inclusion.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:20, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::I don't think we even need to be that conservative. Nobody is going to claim that one regional release of one toy has ''ruined the entire Transformers franchise''. There's no new innovation or franchise re-invention going on here. It's just one bio on one toy and some people raging for a day or two.
::As I've said before, RUINED FOREVER is not just "BUHR ME FAN HATE THING". It's "This new and different thing means that Transformers cannot and will not ever be good again" (add "because new things are bad" as needed), followed by Transformers surviving, thriving, and continuing to be good. In this age of live action movies, there's not much left that can shake the franchise to its core like that. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 00:04, 5 February 2015 (EST)

== DOTM Soundwave and Wheeljack cancelled in USA ==

Is that ruined forever? Many fans compalined about them cancelled and how they got too many Bumblebees.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 06:43, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:No, that is not "ruined forever". Ruined Forever is large scale complaining about things that have supposedly irredeemably damaged the brand. And the complaining has to continue for a long period of time. Fans were upset about this, but it didn't drag on for years and years. Or even months and months. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:52, 10 February 2015 (EST)

== Autobot Megatron ==

Alot of fans were really upset with Megatron joining the autobots...That can be considered as a `RUINED FOREVER".
[[User:Hyruk|Hyruk]] ([[User talk:Hyruk|talk]]) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:This doesn't sound like something that happened. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] ([[User talk:Nu-Priest|talk]]) 18:13, 10 February 2015 (EST)
::Megatron never joined the Autobots ([[Megatron (SG)|though there is a mirrorverse Megatron of course]]) but we don't talk about fanfics, only official fiction.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 08:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
:::Go read the IDW comics, it happened. Or wait for [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Leader|this toy]]. But again, this is nowhere near the level of complaining that is necessary for Ruined Forever. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
::::But what's wrong if Megatron is an Autobot? It's supposed to be nice because that means there are no Decepticons and no war.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 03:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
:::::Which would pretty much END the fiction. No conflict, no drama, no story.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)

In the allinged continuity, he becomes an Autobot in the Beast Hunters Predicons Rising movie. [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 23:09, 1 August 2015 (EDT)

=="Radical Feminist SJWs"==

Can we remove this entry from the list? It just seems like pointless flamebait to me- not to mention that in my experience, practically nobody believes that female Transformers "ruined" the brand. I mean, you have some people (including the mighty Simon Furman himself) who find the idea of gender in a race of robots kinda silly because, well, they're robots- an opinion I personally disagree with but still understand- but in all my time as a Transformers fan I've never seen ANYONE having the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the existance of female Transformers that this entry is implying, even on the 4chan Transformers threads.

Plus, quite aside from anything else, it's an open invitation for LOLDRAMA and not even that funny.[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 12:43, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

* As far as I can tell, the only people who had trouble with it were the writers for some of the comics, under the justification that as automata, Transformers shouldn't have genders. That said, no one complained and after Arcee's head-turning introduction to the series, more of them showed up without incident, meaning either a shift in attitude or pressure from Hasbro.

: So yeah, pretty much. Don't need it. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 14:44, 11 December 2015 (EST)

Nnnnnyeah, that one's staying.
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/125522205664
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/124075222269
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/122682384287
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/129784394268
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/128712971726
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/121195549217
There is literally an entire Tumblr dedicated to cataloging angry reactions to women in Transformers and how "social justice" is ruining it further. Hundreds of entries. If you missed all of it, then you're blessed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:13, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:I mean, seriously, this is one of the few entries on the page that can [http://fusion.net/story/182445/misogynistic-fans-cant-deal-with-the-new-female-transformers/ actually be supported by articles] [http://www.avclub.com/article/hasbro-declares-war-boys-announcing-female-transfo-218595 on non-Transformers websites]. It belongs on here more than most others, if this were a wiki which was going for any kind of Wikipedia-style notability. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:16, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:: Well, my day is ruined forever. I could seriously have gone my whole life without learning about this tumblr.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 15:20, 11 December 2015 (EST)
Meh, most of the posts linked in that Tumblr (or at least the ones you linked) seemed to be fairly reasonable, and far from the outright disgust that usually accompanies cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Heck, there were actually a few fairly valid points here and there amidst the "I disagree with the direction IDW is taking the franchise" posts (most notably that men might be better at managing/marketing a boy-oriented toyline, just as women might be better for girl-oriented toylines). Unless "Ruined FOREVER" now means "Not everyone agrees this is a 100% good thing" I still think it's a pretty petty, unnecessary addition to an otherwise decent article. Now if you want real Ruined Forever butthurt just look at the reactions to Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook and Blastoff-as-a-jet.

Also, you aren't helping your case any by linking to clickbait articles. C'mon, we're better than this.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:08, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:...wow. Now this entry is staying even more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:18, 20 December 2015 (EST)
I beg your pardon? Is simply stating the fact that the cited sources did not display a particularly vicious level of backlash, especially compared to, say, the absolute atomic butthurt experienced by the fandom due to the existence of Alpha Bravo and the other CW newbies, now some kind of capital offence? I certainly don't think I said anything that even remotely deserved that level of condescension.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:44, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::No, no, he needed to use more condescension. You're agreeing with some awful-ass bigoted shit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 17:58, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Yeah, I was toning it down, really. Because the contention that new Combiner components complaints were somehow more vicious and awful than the shit leveled at the existence of more female TFs, including female TFs who don't look like metal Barbies (adding a nice layer of transphobia to the mix) is patently ridiculous, repulsive horseshit, and you are NOT going to win this one, so just stop now. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:01, 20 December 2015 (EST)

Both those websites linked push agendas up the asshole, and pulling shit off some obscure Tumblr page doesn't really help one's argument. Also, it's funny seeing Walky defend entry. Why don't we compromise? Remove the shit about feminism and SJWs and replace it with something like... "More female Transformers"? It makes the people mad look like strawmen, but it's a start. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek]]~~ ([[User talk:TheTFGeek:talk]])
:Oh, and I won't be able to reply immediately because I'll be hitting the hay soon. Please take into consideration my idea and try to act civilized (not that you all aren't). Oh, and apologies for attacking you like that, Walky. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Hahahahah "agendas" hahahahhahahahah no. No, it is not going away. Coddling bigoted, misogynistic shit is not "civilized", its scummy and won't be tolerated here. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:::I would sooner raze this website to the ground than allow something I pay for to coddle smallminded 4chan concern trolling about "agendas." It stays. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 03:57, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::Shit, I was trying to act nice and compromise, but, alright, have it your way. Also, M, are you telling me you really can't tell when news sites push agendas? ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::::Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 12:32, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha this fool won't actually argue with me and has to reply in a insulting manner hahahahahahahahah ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:It's interesting how nobody's ever asked that this article be more polite about fans who hate Beast Wars or the live-action films or whatever. No, it's just the fans who hate female characters who deserve that! [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 07:31, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Gamergate has finally reached our shores. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::I had a good feeling someone would bring that up... ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::I wonder why. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:I'm unclear regarding how the obscurity or otherwise of the tumblr page is relevant when it is reposting stuff people have said on a major Transformers fan site. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:56, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::My two Euro-Cents: Do I ''personally'' need female Transformers? Not necessarily. Do I hate the concept of female Transformers? Hell no. Do I oppose the introduction of more female Transformers characters? Not if they're written well, which they seem to be for the most part. (I particularly enjoy Nautica!) Is the backlash hilariously over the top? Absolutely. Is it indicative of misogyny deeply rooted in many members of our jolly little fandom? Definitely. Does it belong on this page? Well, of course.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 17:13, 21 December 2015 (EST)

==Locked==
If ever there was a page that deserved to be locked, it's this one. The idea that it needs some debate before we go ahead and add something here is a good one, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 08:37, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Thank you for listening to me instead of laughing at my posts and automatically assuming I'm a troll. I'd add some insulting stuff in this next sentence, but I don't want to further agitate people. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Right, I just got an idea for a bullet point; combining Dinobots, which were summarily Ruined FOREVER to the fandom after [[The Beast Within]]. It's pretty clear that that topic should probably be on here under a bullet point, at least to me. [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 17:00, 17 February 2016 (EST)

== Combiner Wars ==

Anyone else think Combiner Wars (cartoon) should be added to the list? [[User:Jcbynum1|Jcbynum1]] 23:11, 27 September 2016 EST
:No, the point of this list is things which whiners ridiculously claim have ruined Transformers but in fact have not. Terribly made productions are a separate thing. You don't see the RotF film on here with its dismally low critical reception, do you? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:19, 27 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sipher gave a big fat NO to that previously, so it's a no go. This page isn't for everything terrible or everything new, just specific stuff that was widely, irrationally feared by the fandom to spell certain irreparable doom for the Transformers brand. As bad as the CW cartoon was, it was hyped up with much anticipation and hailed by some as a sort of Second Coming of G1 in cartoon form. People were dying to see this cartoon and were thinking it could be the greatest thing ever, the very opposite of the "Ruined FOREVER" concept. And once it came out, while people saw how bad it was, they still knew that it wouldn't ruin the brand like they thought the things on this page would. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:21, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

== Apparently IDW is adding another to the list ==

According to some people 'stuck in 1984', shall we say, at least, [[Rom the Space Knight|Multi-property crossovers]] are Ruining FOREVER! Transformers as a stealth way to phase out all the 1984-introduced characters we know and love. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 04:26, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:Once again, the list's entry requirements are not a simple as "some people complained about it". (If they were, literally everything the brand has ever done would be on the list.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 05:19, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

== HasCon ==
Given the fans' unfavorable reaction to the newest convention, any hopes for adding this to the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 13:21, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
:Has Hascon been actually accused being something that will "ruin the Transformers brand forever", or have the negative reactions just been a general dislike of some of the con's aspects? If only the latter, then no, it wouldn't be added to this page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:53, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
::Well, looks like HasCon is spared from the fires of this page. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 02:23, 15 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Great, that omission has made this page worthless. "Transformers: Ruined FOREVER" ruined FOREVER. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 23:30, 22 October 2017 (EDT)
::::At this point I would support the removal of the list of things that have ruined Transformers forever, just to make it easier to keep the page from being indiscriminately added to. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:06, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::It's already locked so only administrators can edit the page. I think bringing prospective items here means we can limit what's added all right, even if some people are going to disagree with the outcome of the discussion. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:42, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::I for one was trying to make a joke. I'm not really concerned about HasCon being on this page. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 10:17, 26 October 2017 (EDT)

== Hasbro acquiring TakTom ==
Oh boy, this is a big one. This is going to be mentioned to this page in the future if this happens. https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/speculation-hasbro-looking-to-acquire-takara-tomy/39978/ (NOTE: This is speculation) [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 10:25, 8 November 2017 (EST)
UPDATE: Yup, that "Unifying the Brands" happened. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Cade's quote in TLK ==
Should you add Cade's "That is ''not'' Optimus" quote in this page as a meta reference to the fans and the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Beast? ==

Given the frequency of the two subjects popping up together, I am actually curious. Has anyone ever accused the Beast of ruining the franchise forever? Or is it one of those thankfully obscure things that only really comes up on this wiki and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZDj3DwXD4 The Cinema Sins review of ''Power Rangers''?] --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 17:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:I think it's one of those things that isn't obscure among TFdom, but it's also not exactly mainstream media like most of the things on that list.
:It prob belongs on this list, tho. [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 18:35, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
::The point of this list is not "bad things in the Transformers franchise" but "things the fandom overreacted to". Nobody cared about the Beast because it's a British pack-in comic that has zero influence on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:42, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:::Have you... ''seen'' the Beast, Saix? I don't know if I'd say "no influence"...
:::But in all seriousness, he is correct. Pretty much anyone who goes on a TF news-site or the like can be exposed to mainline show or comic and react to it. The Beast is more one of those things that only hardcore fans (and/or us wiki editors) really understand the reference to. It's horrifying, but not "controversial". [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 22:09, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

== Toy Distributions in 2020 ==

Looks like this example has potential given the negative reactions regarding Hasbro's lack of distribution in some countries like the UK. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 04:52, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
: No. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 07:50, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
:: (Late response) Okay, I understood. But I'm also here to remind you that the responses to the exclusives these days are alarmingly clear. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:49, 26 October 2020 (EDT)

== NFTs ==
Yup. <big>'''''Definitely'''''</big> [https://news.tfw2005.com/2022/03/07/transformers-x-funko-nft-collection-series-1-announced-451207?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter new entry worthy]. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 22:32, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:Probably not for this page, because this is a sarcastic list of things that people overreact to but turn out to not be that bad in the long run. NFTs don't quite fit that, being unironically and unabashedly terrible. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 22:49, 7 March 2022 (EST)
::Yeah, no. NFTs are ''objectively'' shit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:57, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:::Okay. Maybe I should SERIOUSLY read the page carefully next time. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 00:03, 8 March 2022 (EST)

== MOTU no longer a good example ==
In the years since the intro was written, Netflix She-Ra and "kid" He-Man have shown that that property can be rebuilt to appeal to new, more diverse audiences. GIJoe still entombed in amber, though. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:51, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
:Honestly, Joe as the sole punchline without Mickey or MOTU feels more effective anyway. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:08, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

== Possible addtion - Pronouns? ==
Considering the uproar about Nightshade's pronouns being mentioned like, twice, maybe we could add Pronouns to the list and tag them? (Cue all those people saying that EarthSpark is indoctrinating children lol)
Or add Nightshade to the "SJW" part, since "woke" and "SJW" are pretty much used synonymously nowadays -- [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 18:51, 3 January 2024 (EST)
: I don't see any mention of that storm in a teacup on <s>his</s> their page, and frankly I'm disinclined to give the matter any oxygen. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:26, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:: "His"? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 20:40, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::guh it's been a long day --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:42, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::: Valid, let's leave this topic to the whiners to Reddit and X... fingers crossed they'll get used to it in season 2! -- [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 23:03, 3 January 2024 (EST)

Talk:Ruined FOREVER

2024-01-04T04:03:44Z

Thunderwave: /* Possible addtion - Pronouns? */

==Regarding deletion==
I see no point to having this article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:There are 4 instances of Ruined Forever on [[Transformers timeline|this page]] alone. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::I see no point to having those, either. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::JaAm has a page. 'Ruined Forever' is used ironically within the fandom- and this is clearly marked as a fandom article just like [[True fan]] is. Ruined Forever is clearly more prominent than [[Dull surprise]], though possibly not as widely as [[Neon]]. (Which now that I look at it need its opening quote reformatted...) My entire impetus for creating it was that Sntint made an ironic Ruined Forever joke on a talk page and I was like- "huh, why dont' we have a page for that?" (Well, also I wanted to wash the bad tast of [[Don Murphy|Don Murray]] out of my brain.)
:::Ruined Forever appears to rest comfortably within the range of existing articles on the Wiki, but I am content to allow others to decide. If a majority think it's not relevant to Transformers the article can be deleted, as always. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::::I say it's as relevant as Playskool, neon, and FIRRIB. {{unsigned|Terrocon Blot}}
:::::And Derik on the rebound to make me feel dumber. It's not enough that I misspelled my own screenname, he's also got to sign my posts for me. Damn that Derik. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 07:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the page. As already stated, a number of other pages already exist to explain similar fandom colloquialisms. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 13:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't see this article as explaining anything. It seems to exist purely to ridicule fandom behavior that we don't like, and thus I see no point to keeping it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay too. Where else would terms like ''Ruined FOREVER'', [[Furmanism]], and Chewed caramels be documented for all time, if not here?--[[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 14:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Do these fandom terms need to be ones that are famous/infamous, known or used widely? Then how about TFW2005's 'HE TELL ME' (in reference to that guy who claimed Peter Cullen was cast as RID Prime)? TFW2005 is probably the most prominent of the Transformers fan sites, as well as the one that Hasbro seems to unofficially prefer. I personally never even heard of 'dull surprise' until I read it on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Nor I. But I don't think we're just documenting memes-- each of these articles, Truk !Munky, Chewed caramels even JaAm are 'about' a belief/response/tendency in fandom- not just the phrase used to illustrate it. Dull Surprise is a belief the masturbatory praise heaped on Superstar Funana was undeserved, JaAm is about the backlash against Dreamwave's style-over-sanity lack of visual storytelling, Truk not Monkey encompasses both knee-jerk hatred of BW and frustration about knee-jerks, and Chewed caramels ''seems'' to be about a desire that all TF toylines subscribe to some broad interpretation of G1's design aesthetic. I doubt anyone put ''conscious thought'' into this, but the fandom-meme articles people found worthy of creating aren't ''just'' about the phrase- they're about phrases that expresses something larger about how fans relate to Transformers.
::(I'm not familiar with 'HE TELL ME' and where it may fall with this.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think dull surprise is way too limited in use (basically just #wiigii! as far as I know) to really belong here, but Derik does sort of have a point about the article being about a little more than that. I also don't know "HE TELL ME" but it sounds like something worth considering -- claims of unnamed inside sources and all that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Oops, it was actually Peter Cullen as Armada Prime. The posts (being from 2002), no longer exists, but fortunately blitz_64 managed to save the posts for posterity [http://www.geocities.com/blitz_64/HETELLME.html The Saga of HE TELL ME and GoOP].

::::Actually, Steve-o, I'd say "Secret Inside Sources" would be a more appropriate meme/article to describe that last one. Having never heard of "HE TELL ME", and seeing that few others apparently have either, I'm not sure it's as much a meme as "Secret Inside Sources" is.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Around the same period, I recall some other idiot who claimed to be a Hasbro photographer and described crazy things like the Mini-Cons becoming body armour and Prime's minicon transforming into his Matrix. These claims, while totally false, were important because they apparently spurred Aaron to emerge as ORSON and totally destroy that other dude, IIRC. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I remember that quite vividly indeed. The guy who claimed to be the photographer actually revealed himself over [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26415&st=20&p=551756&#entry551756 at the Allspark this year], actually. Oh yeah, and I think the animu thing was 4Chan leakage [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=animu].--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I say we keep it. [[User:Compy-Rex|Compy-Rex]] 18:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Compy-Rex
:If this page is deleted I will cry. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 05:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

==Usage==
Has "ruined forever" ever been used seriously by fans? While it describes a real and annoying sentiment, I'm not sure I like basing an article on a phrase that was sarcastic in the first place. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I'm sure something very similar, at least, has been used. But regardless, you say that it describes a real sentiment, so, what's the problem? Can you recommend a better title for the article? Or are you saying the article shouldn't exist at all? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well, my vote is for not existing at all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I (and a number of others) used to think "Rapeing my childood" was only used for sarcastic reasons. Then I read the thread on the promo poster for Transformers Animated, which had a number or people using the seriously. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Has Trukk not Munky ever been used in a non Ironic/Sarcastic way? It's still a catchphrase used by the fandom, as is this. Both rate articles under the fandom category, IMo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:The '''scream your head off in outraged panic''' / '''call for mass-firings or send death threats over something that has/will ruin/ed TF''' ''behavior'' of this article certainly was in evidence during Beast Machines- and I think the "sky is falling" aspect is amply evidenced by the sheer ''number'' of times fans have declared TF ruined forever. (And, clearly, been wrong every time, or every time but 1 depending on your belief system.)
:If you have some other title you'd prefer for this article like 'Clicken-Little Syndrome' by all means propose it and see what people think, but the article speaks to a genuine (and highly mockable) aspect of fandom psychology.
:And frankly, while the ''behavior'' itself is worthy of ridicule, the ''reason'' for it- an exaggerated concern for the health and future of the brand- is actually kinda ''endearing'' and speaks well of fans. At least their ''hearts'' are in the right place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

==Paul Dini==

I think accusing the fandom of saying the art style of Paul Dini ''the writer'' being used for Animated will "RUIN TRANSFORMERS FOREVER" is making the article simply too mean-spirited. I've never seen any individual display the idiocy we're accusing the fandom of with that line. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 05:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have.
Scary, scary stuff.

Also, the last line of the entry seems to cut a little into the humor by overexplaining. Replace it with a "general hasbro idiocy" linking to "transformers" or somesuch?

==Marked for deletion.==

This is getting out of hand.

This page has become the epicenter of an edit war that has gone on for nearly a week now. As of the time of this writing, only six other pages link to this article. While I fully support the light tone of Teletraan I, and I understand that some explanation of aspects of the fandom complete the Wiki, I believe this particular article and debate at this point only detracts from the issue.

I DO agree that it was biased in the form in which it existed before our anonymous editor "friend" decided to change it, but I do not think that matters any longer. This article does not add anything inherently positive to the wiki, indeed, it does not chronicle anything positive ''or'' negative about Transformers itself at all. Its relation to Transformers is tangential at best.

By deleting this, we would not lose anything except the beginnings of what appear to be the modern equivalent of a Usenet flamewar. Deleting it, I believe, can only benefit Teletraan I. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 12:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree. I didn't feel this article was necessary, and I still don't. I agree that the fandom is full of idiots who never bothered to grow up after 1986, but our mockery of them doesn't belong in the wiki. Not to say that Mister "integrity of the characters" is right, though. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm putting in a vote for keeping it. It's a fun article to read, and it speaks a lot of truth in it's wonderfully snarky way.--[[User:Gouki|Gouki]] 12:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Snarkyness can be fun but this article is just pushing it, IMO. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::I think it should stay, it's funny. Also, if you delete it then the terrorists win.
::::::I would keep it. I think it describes a real sentiment, that needs to be pointed out as overblown. [[User:JW|JW]] 13:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The edit war was only between registered users and a single unregistered dude. I've fixed things, at least for the moment, by protecting the page from unregistered editors. If you're gonna get in a pissy editing war, we'd damn well better know who you are. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Our anonymous friend is from the Netherlands, if anybody cares. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This "Ruined FOREVER" article is stupid and don't make any sense. Its just shit

: [[Seafood Louis]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if the opinion of an anon means anything, but I think this article is freaking hilarious. I was talking with a friend about TF:Animated and he said that the girl with the transforming bike 'ruined it permanently' so I linked him this article. He laughed and said, 'ok, well maybe I'm over-reacting.'

I think the article is funny and provides valuable perspective. {{unsigned|66.167.253.76}}
: Well said, citizen. [[User:JW|JW]] 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've cancelled out the other anon from earlier, at any rate. And yeah, I agree with your assessment of it.--[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Same --[[User:Chiasaur11|Chiasaur11]]

I happen to think this article is incredibly useful in charting the tendency for all fans everywhere (but especially TF fans) to react in comical and hyperbolic ways. I think the breadth of what people determine can/has ruined TF forever automatically makes the article an amusing and insightful look for the novice fan into the fandom's reactionary past.

Indeed, I actually have shown this article to people just coming back (or getting into) TF. It's inspired about as many laughs as it has genuine curiosity as to what the fandom and franchise are like as entities. Isn't that the idea of this wiki? I would think reference materials as to the history of the fandom, good and bad, are always a boon.

(and that aside, I just think it's really, really funny)

.... Aaaaaaand I had to go and screw up. Bah. That's me above. --[[User:Cmdr Crayfish|Cmdr Crayfish]] 10:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

==Where do we draw the line?==
How do we stop this from becoming just a giant list of everything that anyone has ever expressed any dislike for ever? Why, for instance, is ''The Beast Within'' in there? Or Gonzo (which I thought was generally accepted as at least ''better'' than We've, even if not as good at Mainframe)? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've kinda been watching this list grow with some mild irritation- it went from about 1 item for every 2 years to ''twice'' that in fairly short order, and that bothers me.
:I've sorta resolved to edit the list down this October, pruning it (so to speak) with some opportunity for people to say what should stay and what should go.
:The Beast Within has to stay though- at the ''very'' least it ruined the Dinobots forever- now whenever George Rodd brings up combiner Dinobots we have to grudgingly admit they're canon. Also, it was the reason for the article's creation in the first place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why wait? If we want this to be a list of developments that prompted widespread fury that lingered for years, we can shorten it to "Actionmasters, BW, BM, Armada, Hallit, and Bay," and perhaps a few others, right now. Then a "Trivia" note saying that The Beast Within really DID ruin Transformers, or at least Dinobots, forever. Just a thought... but yeah, having every single series in there dilutes the point. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 19:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Problem is, how do you decide what deserves to be listed as ruining TF forever, if none of it really did in the first place. I've seen just about everything listed there used as an example of why ____ TF series/movie/toyline will fail--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 20:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, Thy, I'd append your list with a general "*-masters" thing, as a lot of armchair CEOs claim that the entire -master trend killed the line, not the fact that it had, you know, run its course. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 14:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'll just basically agree with Thy and Hoop that whatever's listed here should have a certain "endurance" as a scapegoat. The turnaround of opinion on Animated was what, two weeks? "* Masters" certainly counts, as should Pretenders. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::What, a simple a Google newsgroup search for [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22killed+transformers%22&start=10&sa=N&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&|"killed transformers"] ain't enough? /:] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I doubt I'd get objections if I added it, but I'd like to throw it by the community: Should we readd [[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Kiss Players]]? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 04:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I really think Animated should stay in there, if only because it's '''such a dramatic departure.''' Turn around was fast, but the initial reaction was strong. I mean, for the first time in fifteen years of being a fan, I actually found myself muttering "My god... they've finally done it. It's ruined..." --[[User:70.190.251.10|70.190.251.10]] 05:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

beast wars didnt reuin tf beast machines sorta did but it was still quite good ,if u ignore some minor things - Unsigned post by [[User:80.6.180.141|80.6.180.141]]
:You're missing the point of the article, then. The point is that every time something new comes along, the fandom screams about how it will ruin Transformers forever, when in reality it's usually the opposite. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Last Deletion Locked in?==
Spotted a couple of points on the list removed by [[Special:Contributions/Teletraan|someone who seems to like deleting stuff just because]], but when I tried to restore the page, it was already locked. Were his edits accepted, then?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:There are two facets to this. First, without occasional pruning, the list in this article tends to grow, and grow, and grow. Every now and then, someone has to come along and cut it back. Since this is a wiki, the question of what gets cut is made by the person willing to do the cutting.
:The second facet is that the items cut were in fact less core to the "ruined forever" concept. "Runined forever" is a cry that springs up whenever ''something new is added to the Transformers brand'' by HasTak, and it happens every single time. Thus, the fans ''can't'' ruin TF forver, because they don't add new canon. And, while HasTak ''can'' ruin TF forever, it's because they're the only ones who can do so. I.e., one of the cut items was in error, and one was redundant. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
::Fair enough, I suppose. It was a combination of both the deletions and the person who committed them that made me question their validity.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:::Yah, user Teletraan is not exactly a primo contributor. Still, this particular edit seems (at minimum) defensible. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

==Masters of the Universe link==
I've never, ever been interested in MOTU, so I have no idea what was the cause of the revamp line's failure, but given the extreme slant of the article, I can only assume it failed because it concentrated on collectors rather than kids. If so, why does it link to a Wikipedia article that cites Mattel's ''"excessive focus on attempting to mass-market the line to a new generation of children rather than focusing on a safer collector-based approach"'' as the reason for the line's failure? Am I missing something or does that sound like the line tanked because it focused on selling toys to kids rather than what this article is railing against? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
: Guess who wrote the Wikipedia article. (Hint: It wasn't kids.) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:: The fact is the line failed, no one can say *exactly* why. There are reasons for both oppinions.

::'''Fact:''' The line DID court fans rather than kids in many ways. It didn't reinvent the boat but took the exact looks, exact characters, and in some cases even exact stories the fans clamored for and did them again, only better, prettier, smarter, and more "realisticly". In that respect it was pretty much EXACTLY what older fans of '80s properties clamor for, and said fans generally loved it. But for whatever reason it never caught on with '''actual kids''' in the way the simple, campy, primitive, bowlegged original did. So some see that and blame the line's failure on the older fan mentality.

::'''Also Fact:''' Mattel tried to sell the toyline the way they had Batman. I.E. A million goofy variations on He-man and Skelator (and one or two others) and everyone else was almost impossible to find or didn't get a figure at all. This was very much NOT what collectors wanted. Many blame it for the line's failure at retail, arguing that part of what made the original a hit where the huge variety of strange and different warriors and monsters that Mattel had left out this time in favor of flooding the shelves with He-man repaints and ill-concieved alterations (The entire wave of "samori repaints on stilts" is often pointed to, but are only one of many examples.) Some see this and blame an ill-concieved inapropriate retail stratagy aimed at marketing to kids having crippled the line's retail appeal.

::Personally I think there's some truth to BOTH. For whatever reason (timing, approach, luck,) the older fan oriented cartoon never clicked with the kiddies, '''AND''' the Batman-style retail stratagy was a bad choice for a MOTU type toyline. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was the feeling I got, that is there is no clear cut side to 'blame', and in this case, I think we should ditch the Masters of the Universe link, given the information there contradicts the slant of this article, and in any case it's not a clear cut case of 'it's all the collectors fault'. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Hrm, there's some legitimate thought there... but it ruins the G.I. Joe comparison. (Why catering to adult collectors and abandoning attempts at reinvention is a losing strategy in the long run necause ther old dudes die off and uyou're not bringing new fans in.)
::::For what it's worth, I meant from design and marketing- I agree that the actual toyline was schitzophrenic- alternating between a slavish adherence to the original designs and case assortments aimed at kida who weren't watching the cartoon.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Here's an idea - how about one of you guys (who actually know about MOTU) edit the wikipedia article so it's more balanced, so we don't end up looking like idiots in this article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that even in today's environment, the military has ''some'' pull to kids. Not so much the gay, gay fur-bikini barbarians. Sword-and-sorcery has some appeal nowadays, but mostly when it's very Japanesey kids-anime-style. (One could also note that the "big" Joe revival frankly isn't very big. It's pretty damn low-key, really, where He-Man was some major-league THIS WILL BE BIG!!! Lower expectations = greater chance of meeting and exceeding them.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd also imagine that production costs on the 25th anniversary Joe figs are pretty darn reasonable on Hasbro's bookkeeping. They've done similar lines for Star Wars for decades, so they know what they're doing.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really annoyed that the GI Joe 25th line isn't available here, because Hasbro AU's last attempt to revive GI Joe in Australia totally tanked. If you can believe it, Toys R Us stores here languished under piles of unsold Cobra Trooper 6-packs, which, as I've read in forums, collectors were fighting over. They're not on pegs anymore, so I guess they've been shredded or incinerated by now.--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So have we decided on this link yet? The Wikipedia link still contradicts the snarky joke link of this article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:It's always going to, because there will always, ''always'' be enough people who are going to make sure that the bullshit boogeyman "CASE RATIOS!! CASE RATIOS!!! KIDS WANTED ALL THOSE OBSCURE ONE-EPISODE GUYS AND USELESS MINOR VILLANS!!!!!" (while patently ignoring the fact that if you can't sell your ''two primary characters in the line'', maybe there's something wrong with your franchise, not case ratios... it'd be like if a Batman line couldn't sell toys of Batman) is squarely blamed for MOTU's failure. Frankly, I'd say just add a note to OUR article saying "ignore the bullshit about case ratios. Kids just didn't want a line about a boring gay man in a fur bikini." --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ignoring your general disdain for He-man here, and even the whole case ratio issue, the fact remains that saying (as our snark does) that the newer He-man line "catered exclusively to older collectors" and that this caused its failure is both unprovable, AND very widely disputed. I'd say we should remove the link on those issues alone. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC) (-'''Edit:''' On a side-note, given the apparent success of the 25th ann. line and the coming movie, the critical G.I.Joe link in there may soon be meaninglessly out of date as well...)

:::And this is my point - we'll start looking like idiots who can't even get our facts or jokes straight if we insist on keeping these links. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I see Zac's point- but I think he's reacting to something that's not in the article. We're holding the MOTU reboot as an example of a line that abandoned all attempt at reinvention. Since there ''was'' not reinvention in the reboot line, at all, this should not be up for dispute.
:::We do not say that this is ''why'' the line failed. It probably ''was'', but we don't say that. We merely hold it up as an apporach that's probably unhealthy for Transformers to follow.
:::So to be really blunt-- I don't care what whiny fanboys may have edited Wikipedia to say in support of their view that the line was perfect and viable the way it was. '''A)''' That's masturbatory. '''B)''' It's not what this article is talking about, so it's simply not relevant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::But it says 'cater exclusively to the old-school collectors', which the line evidently did not do. In which case, regardless of if we are holding up as an approach that TF should not follow, it's not a good example in the context of the very joke-link, especially if it sends the reader to an article that disputes the joke. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::In this context, that 'catering' refers to design, not case assortments. We're discussing ''reinvention''. One does not 'reinvent' case assortments! And in terms of designs, characters etc... MOTU ''did'' cater. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::More to the point- we're discussing changign the content on ''this'' page because highly dubious artument on Wikipedia disagrees with something ''we're not even saying here''.
:::::If Wikipedia had a bullshit argument we were actually refuting I might kinda understand this. But we're not! We are actually arguing about removing a link to an article because fanboys have jizzed across it in ways that contradict things our article ''doesn't'' say, but which 'might run through that same fanboy's mind as they read our article.'
:::::While '''I''' clearly feel the fanboy argument is specious-at-best '''it doesn't matter'''. We say it catered to collectors. That's it! '''It's just an example of one extreme a toyline can take.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why is The [[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Armada]] series , [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] series, the [[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]], and [[Exclusive]]s listed here?[[User:Autobot Soundwave|Autobot Soundwave]] 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because fans reacted [[Trukk not munky|very]] [[Pokeformers|negatively]] to a lot of these things, which went on to become major successes. It's satire. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because they ruined Transformers forever, of course.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the list ==

The Cliff Notes version: there's very little reason to.

The full version: Contrary to what [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER many people think], this is not a list of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER everything Transformers ever]. It is not even a list of everything Transformers that fans have ever complained about. It is a list of the relative handful of times that something ground-shaking and new has come along, something totally different from what's gone before, something that's not exactly like 1984, that causes people to complain that Transformers has irrevocably jumped the shark and begun sinking into an irreversible oblivion. All this doomsaying is then typically followed by the franchise surging back to life as the awful horrible new thing turns out to be a smashing success. Alternately, the horrible new thing quietly fades away while the franchise chugs along to the next new thing.

Thing is, anybody who's stuck with Transformers to this point is used to these reinventions. Perspective has grown long enough that plenty of fans now understand that anything they don't like will be gone in a year or two. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I only read the Allspark boards and they're fairly intelligent, but cries of RUINED FOREVER are increasingly rare these days.

I don't see why Drift is on the list. Plenty of people think he sucks, but nobody's claiming he's going to bring down the whole franchise. ''All Hail Megatron'' would be a better candidate, because people (including myself!) ''are'' claiming that IDW's whole storyline has been permanently destroyed by it. (You could also make a case for ''Energon'' ("bad anime"), ''Prime Directive'' ("MATURE ADULT XXX" or "Buckets of Blood" or "Pat Lee"), and/or Dreamwave ("The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man", "Superstars", "Bankruptcy").

I don't see why stolen prototypes are on the list. Yeah, some of us make a fuss over them. Y'know why? Because HASBRO THEMSELVES HAS SAID THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. There's no ridiculously overblown grasping-at-straws fandom absurdity to mock here.

And I'd need to see a LOT of linked posts before I'd accept ROTF on the list. I can't fathom someone having complaints about ROTF that didn't also apply to the first movie. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:10, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

:There are new complaints about ROTF - about [[Mudflap (ROTF)|these]] [[Skids (ROTF)|two]].--[[Special:Contributions/172.162.17.159|172.162.17.159]] 08:34, 10 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree with Repowers 100%. If anything, I think the list could use some trimming. Are people complaining about the Twins? Sure! Is ANYONE saying that Transformers, as a franchise, is over/tainted? Umm ... not that I've heard. Certainly no substantial block of the fandom.
::And stolen prototypes, while I DO think people make a somewhat biggish deal about them, don't really belong on the list either. A: as Repowers points out, Hasbro itself has legitimized the concern. B: people getting annoyed about something is NOT the same as saying that the Transformers brand is beyond recovery. Hell, even AHM seems like a stretch. I think that most of the fandom has gained enough hindsight to know that, at worst, AHM represents a change in direction for *IDW'S* story, but certainly not the end of Transformers as we know it. Hell, ROTF and Animated were contemporary, and both were tremendous successes.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 09:48, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure we we can't have Energon on this list, seeing all the complaints on this very wiki, but, eh.--[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] 08:00, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:I disagree. I've read on here that people LIKED it at first, but eventually lost faith/the will to live after watching it. The list chronicles the events which work the OTHER way around. [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 09:07, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I'd say the list has nothing to do with how good something is, but more with complaints from the fandom and especially even before the thing in question has been released. Having said that, does RiD really warrant a place on the list? Was there really that much of a commotion about it? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm surprised "G1 Bayformers", aka Don Figueroa's new drawing style isn't on this list, given that almost every single opinion on it I found was a flame.....--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:30, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::I loath it to the core of my petty, petty being... but i don't see it as something that will kill or taint the franchise. Kiss-Player is still squicking people ''years'' later... the fact the Japanese owners basically licensed TF loli guro porn is something that genuinely shocks people and lessens their opinion of TF as a whole-- especially since it's not one of those 'worse than it sounds' things, the closer you look, the more disturbing it actually gets. An unpleasant art style inflicted on the comparatively small comic-book audience... just isn't in the same ballpark.
::::I think it's harmed ''IDW'''s Transformers brand equity... people seem a lot more skeptical and a lot more negative of editorially-generated jerking around of the TF brand, because they've now repeatedly dumped directions they committed to in order to chase imaginary gains that never materialized-- apparently heedless of the negative baggage piled on the story in the process. (One more major reset in pursuit of some sort of magical deckchair configuration the editors are convinced is more important than telling good stories... and I might as well be reading DC!) But not the brand overall. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Not to get all chat roomy here, but... what he said. Oh dear lord, WHAT HE SAID. (Derik, have you posted that sentiment to IDW's boards?) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

==How about that B.O.T episode==

To many fans, it's considered to be the worst G1 episode ever, so I think it should be placed here. [[User:Dinoman96|Dinoman96]] 17:23, 23 November 2009 (EST)
:Yea, but this isn't a list of what people just call "bad" - it's a list of the things that threw the fandom into a colossal uproar and actually caused people to say Transformers was ruined forever, more for the fact that they were drastically or outlandishly new and different than for their actually being of poor quality. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

==Drift==
Shouldn't we add [[Drift (G1)| this Mary Sue]] to Runied FOREVER? {{unsigned|24.62.9.241}}
:No. He hasn't ruined anything forever. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:55, 17 August 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe you should read the page above before you add to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

==A quick question (not about adding additional items)...==

Anyone else think that a funnier name for ''Prime'' would be Bayformers Teen Titans? I ask because we've got Bayformers and Teen Titans on the list, and Bayformers Animated kind of throws off the flow. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:03, 16 December 2010 (EST)
:To me at least, "Bayformers Animated" flows much better than "Bayformers Teen Titans". --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 20:04, 16 December 2010 (EST)
::A fair point. I meant it more in the manner of fitting with what else was in the article. Not a big deal either way, I suppose. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:12, 16 December 2010 (EST)

== Parodies of this page in other media ==

Just in case you didn't noticed it, this page has been parodied several times and in different media:

* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER (As noted, this wiki is the trope namer for "Ruined FOREVER")
* http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx
* http://www.helloweenboard.com/topic/4063-seven-sinner-discussion-thread/page__view__findpost__p__336072
* http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47999&page=1
* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER
* http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/warmachine/163237-blight-spreading-nites-cryx-blog.html#post1416664
* http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Ruined_FOREVER
{{unsigned|201.212.60.105}}

:I love how the Wookiepedia people completely missed the point. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:40, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::...their version seems basically the same sarcastic treatment as ours. Are you reading a different page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:43, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
:::They seemed a lot more concerned with insignificant detail than this wiki is. However, in retrospect, "completely missed the point" was a bit strong on my part. Maybe the Star Wars fandom is more temperamental than we are? [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:49, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::::"''MAYBE''", he says! :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
: Not really parodies, more just... versions. [[User:Esser-Z|Esser-Z]] 11:40, 29 December 2011 (EST)
::Adaptations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:54, 29 December 2011 (EST)

== Literal for once ==

Pat Lee. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:31, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
: Transformers survived him, so not really literally, no. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:00, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:: The franchise as a whole, but not Dreamwave. Or his reputation. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
::: Not the point of the page. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 21:20, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

== Autobots who didn't turn into cars ==

[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/615489-what-characters-killed-g1.html Transformers was ruined FOREVER in 1985!] Seriously.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:39, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
:TFW2005 ruined Transformers forever.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 15:07, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

== Dark of the Moon ==
*The first and second movies by Michael bay are on the list, but why not the third. Lots of people complained about the third one. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 07:49, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
::Getting on this page takes more than simple complaints. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:16, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

== Rescue Bots ==
I propose adding rescue bots to this list, only listed as rescue heroes, or Eureka. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 20:26, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:...but it's universally beloved. Surely no Transformers fan could hate ''fun''?! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:51, 12 December 2012 (EST)
::While I agree that in moderation fun is enjoyable, its creation did cause the standard "Ruined FOREVER" response that would deem it necessary to add to the page in the best interests of keeping an accurate database. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 18:29, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::...Which died down about a week later, with only the few stubborn mules of the fandom remaining intolerant of it. This list contains things that have had lasting backlash that ran deep. Rescue Bots never got such deep-filled hatred as the things covered by this list. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:09, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== Windblade ==
Given the kerfuffle a certain segment of the fanbase made over Windblade, ahould she and/or her series be added to this list? And if so, as what? [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 22:10, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:This is just me, but I'd say we wait a bit more and see how her series and its portrayal of her character are received first. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
::You know this fandom better than I do... I'm not always active in forums or anything... so I'll defer to your judgement. But from what I heard, the drama got really stupid at some points. [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 21:45, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:::The loudmouths are a minority at this point, people are being really vocal about how much they're enjoying the book. People are being mixed about whether they like the writing or the art more, but in general I'm seeing a favorable response to the art and an appreciation for its snappy writing. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] ([[User talk:Antimatter|talk]]) 22:06, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
::::IMO the drama was less to do with Windblade and more about the "brief conflict" between Scott and Furman referenced on ''Spotlight: Arcee'''s page - the worst criticism of Windblade I've seen is that she's kinda dull so far (and that was from me). I remember Drift raising far more ire when he was introduced and Drift isn't listed here. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 02:58, 23 April 2014 (EDT)
:::::That's because IDW shilled Drift as "super cool" and that he'd be "their Wolverine". Windblade, on the other hand, wasn't shilled as a super cool "Wolverine", which is probably why she's been received better than Drift was.[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] ([[User talk:Spin-Out|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2014 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Star Saber's English-language bio for the Australian release ==

Wow, the nerdrage over a little bonus addition for a limited run official import of a Japanese toy that references established IDW fiction is ''amazing''. If that bio doesn't ruin Transformers FOREVER, nothing can.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:11, 4 February 2015 (EST)
:As always, my instinct in a situation like this is to wait for at least 3-4 months to see if there is widespread and sustained griping. Many people want to find a way to include, well, virtually everything on this page, and most TF franchises just don't get that level of sustained vitriol to warrant inclusion.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:20, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::I don't think we even need to be that conservative. Nobody is going to claim that one regional release of one toy has ''ruined the entire Transformers franchise''. There's no new innovation or franchise re-invention going on here. It's just one bio on one toy and some people raging for a day or two.
::As I've said before, RUINED FOREVER is not just "BUHR ME FAN HATE THING". It's "This new and different thing means that Transformers cannot and will not ever be good again" (add "because new things are bad" as needed), followed by Transformers surviving, thriving, and continuing to be good. In this age of live action movies, there's not much left that can shake the franchise to its core like that. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 00:04, 5 February 2015 (EST)

== DOTM Soundwave and Wheeljack cancelled in USA ==

Is that ruined forever? Many fans compalined about them cancelled and how they got too many Bumblebees.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 06:43, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:No, that is not "ruined forever". Ruined Forever is large scale complaining about things that have supposedly irredeemably damaged the brand. And the complaining has to continue for a long period of time. Fans were upset about this, but it didn't drag on for years and years. Or even months and months. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:52, 10 February 2015 (EST)

== Autobot Megatron ==

Alot of fans were really upset with Megatron joining the autobots...That can be considered as a `RUINED FOREVER".
[[User:Hyruk|Hyruk]] ([[User talk:Hyruk|talk]]) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:This doesn't sound like something that happened. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] ([[User talk:Nu-Priest|talk]]) 18:13, 10 February 2015 (EST)
::Megatron never joined the Autobots ([[Megatron (SG)|though there is a mirrorverse Megatron of course]]) but we don't talk about fanfics, only official fiction.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 08:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
:::Go read the IDW comics, it happened. Or wait for [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Leader|this toy]]. But again, this is nowhere near the level of complaining that is necessary for Ruined Forever. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
::::But what's wrong if Megatron is an Autobot? It's supposed to be nice because that means there are no Decepticons and no war.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 03:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
:::::Which would pretty much END the fiction. No conflict, no drama, no story.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)

In the allinged continuity, he becomes an Autobot in the Beast Hunters Predicons Rising movie. [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 23:09, 1 August 2015 (EDT)

=="Radical Feminist SJWs"==

Can we remove this entry from the list? It just seems like pointless flamebait to me- not to mention that in my experience, practically nobody believes that female Transformers "ruined" the brand. I mean, you have some people (including the mighty Simon Furman himself) who find the idea of gender in a race of robots kinda silly because, well, they're robots- an opinion I personally disagree with but still understand- but in all my time as a Transformers fan I've never seen ANYONE having the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the existance of female Transformers that this entry is implying, even on the 4chan Transformers threads.

Plus, quite aside from anything else, it's an open invitation for LOLDRAMA and not even that funny.[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 12:43, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

* As far as I can tell, the only people who had trouble with it were the writers for some of the comics, under the justification that as automata, Transformers shouldn't have genders. That said, no one complained and after Arcee's head-turning introduction to the series, more of them showed up without incident, meaning either a shift in attitude or pressure from Hasbro.

: So yeah, pretty much. Don't need it. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 14:44, 11 December 2015 (EST)

Nnnnnyeah, that one's staying.
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/125522205664
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/124075222269
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/122682384287
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/129784394268
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/128712971726
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/121195549217
There is literally an entire Tumblr dedicated to cataloging angry reactions to women in Transformers and how "social justice" is ruining it further. Hundreds of entries. If you missed all of it, then you're blessed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:13, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:I mean, seriously, this is one of the few entries on the page that can [http://fusion.net/story/182445/misogynistic-fans-cant-deal-with-the-new-female-transformers/ actually be supported by articles] [http://www.avclub.com/article/hasbro-declares-war-boys-announcing-female-transfo-218595 on non-Transformers websites]. It belongs on here more than most others, if this were a wiki which was going for any kind of Wikipedia-style notability. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:16, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:: Well, my day is ruined forever. I could seriously have gone my whole life without learning about this tumblr.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 15:20, 11 December 2015 (EST)
Meh, most of the posts linked in that Tumblr (or at least the ones you linked) seemed to be fairly reasonable, and far from the outright disgust that usually accompanies cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Heck, there were actually a few fairly valid points here and there amidst the "I disagree with the direction IDW is taking the franchise" posts (most notably that men might be better at managing/marketing a boy-oriented toyline, just as women might be better for girl-oriented toylines). Unless "Ruined FOREVER" now means "Not everyone agrees this is a 100% good thing" I still think it's a pretty petty, unnecessary addition to an otherwise decent article. Now if you want real Ruined Forever butthurt just look at the reactions to Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook and Blastoff-as-a-jet.

Also, you aren't helping your case any by linking to clickbait articles. C'mon, we're better than this.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:08, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:...wow. Now this entry is staying even more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:18, 20 December 2015 (EST)
I beg your pardon? Is simply stating the fact that the cited sources did not display a particularly vicious level of backlash, especially compared to, say, the absolute atomic butthurt experienced by the fandom due to the existence of Alpha Bravo and the other CW newbies, now some kind of capital offence? I certainly don't think I said anything that even remotely deserved that level of condescension.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:44, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::No, no, he needed to use more condescension. You're agreeing with some awful-ass bigoted shit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 17:58, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Yeah, I was toning it down, really. Because the contention that new Combiner components complaints were somehow more vicious and awful than the shit leveled at the existence of more female TFs, including female TFs who don't look like metal Barbies (adding a nice layer of transphobia to the mix) is patently ridiculous, repulsive horseshit, and you are NOT going to win this one, so just stop now. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:01, 20 December 2015 (EST)

Both those websites linked push agendas up the asshole, and pulling shit off some obscure Tumblr page doesn't really help one's argument. Also, it's funny seeing Walky defend entry. Why don't we compromise? Remove the shit about feminism and SJWs and replace it with something like... "More female Transformers"? It makes the people mad look like strawmen, but it's a start. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek]]~~ ([[User talk:TheTFGeek:talk]])
:Oh, and I won't be able to reply immediately because I'll be hitting the hay soon. Please take into consideration my idea and try to act civilized (not that you all aren't). Oh, and apologies for attacking you like that, Walky. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Hahahahah "agendas" hahahahhahahahah no. No, it is not going away. Coddling bigoted, misogynistic shit is not "civilized", its scummy and won't be tolerated here. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:::I would sooner raze this website to the ground than allow something I pay for to coddle smallminded 4chan concern trolling about "agendas." It stays. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 03:57, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::Shit, I was trying to act nice and compromise, but, alright, have it your way. Also, M, are you telling me you really can't tell when news sites push agendas? ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::::Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 12:32, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha this fool won't actually argue with me and has to reply in a insulting manner hahahahahahahahah ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:It's interesting how nobody's ever asked that this article be more polite about fans who hate Beast Wars or the live-action films or whatever. No, it's just the fans who hate female characters who deserve that! [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 07:31, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Gamergate has finally reached our shores. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::I had a good feeling someone would bring that up... ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::I wonder why. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:I'm unclear regarding how the obscurity or otherwise of the tumblr page is relevant when it is reposting stuff people have said on a major Transformers fan site. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:56, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::My two Euro-Cents: Do I ''personally'' need female Transformers? Not necessarily. Do I hate the concept of female Transformers? Hell no. Do I oppose the introduction of more female Transformers characters? Not if they're written well, which they seem to be for the most part. (I particularly enjoy Nautica!) Is the backlash hilariously over the top? Absolutely. Is it indicative of misogyny deeply rooted in many members of our jolly little fandom? Definitely. Does it belong on this page? Well, of course.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 17:13, 21 December 2015 (EST)

==Locked==
If ever there was a page that deserved to be locked, it's this one. The idea that it needs some debate before we go ahead and add something here is a good one, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 08:37, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Thank you for listening to me instead of laughing at my posts and automatically assuming I'm a troll. I'd add some insulting stuff in this next sentence, but I don't want to further agitate people. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Right, I just got an idea for a bullet point; combining Dinobots, which were summarily Ruined FOREVER to the fandom after [[The Beast Within]]. It's pretty clear that that topic should probably be on here under a bullet point, at least to me. [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 17:00, 17 February 2016 (EST)

== Combiner Wars ==

Anyone else think Combiner Wars (cartoon) should be added to the list? [[User:Jcbynum1|Jcbynum1]] 23:11, 27 September 2016 EST
:No, the point of this list is things which whiners ridiculously claim have ruined Transformers but in fact have not. Terribly made productions are a separate thing. You don't see the RotF film on here with its dismally low critical reception, do you? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:19, 27 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sipher gave a big fat NO to that previously, so it's a no go. This page isn't for everything terrible or everything new, just specific stuff that was widely, irrationally feared by the fandom to spell certain irreparable doom for the Transformers brand. As bad as the CW cartoon was, it was hyped up with much anticipation and hailed by some as a sort of Second Coming of G1 in cartoon form. People were dying to see this cartoon and were thinking it could be the greatest thing ever, the very opposite of the "Ruined FOREVER" concept. And once it came out, while people saw how bad it was, they still knew that it wouldn't ruin the brand like they thought the things on this page would. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:21, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

== Apparently IDW is adding another to the list ==

According to some people 'stuck in 1984', shall we say, at least, [[Rom the Space Knight|Multi-property crossovers]] are Ruining FOREVER! Transformers as a stealth way to phase out all the 1984-introduced characters we know and love. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 04:26, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:Once again, the list's entry requirements are not a simple as "some people complained about it". (If they were, literally everything the brand has ever done would be on the list.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 05:19, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

== HasCon ==
Given the fans' unfavorable reaction to the newest convention, any hopes for adding this to the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 13:21, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
:Has Hascon been actually accused being something that will "ruin the Transformers brand forever", or have the negative reactions just been a general dislike of some of the con's aspects? If only the latter, then no, it wouldn't be added to this page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:53, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
::Well, looks like HasCon is spared from the fires of this page. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 02:23, 15 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Great, that omission has made this page worthless. "Transformers: Ruined FOREVER" ruined FOREVER. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 23:30, 22 October 2017 (EDT)
::::At this point I would support the removal of the list of things that have ruined Transformers forever, just to make it easier to keep the page from being indiscriminately added to. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:06, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::It's already locked so only administrators can edit the page. I think bringing prospective items here means we can limit what's added all right, even if some people are going to disagree with the outcome of the discussion. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:42, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::I for one was trying to make a joke. I'm not really concerned about HasCon being on this page. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 10:17, 26 October 2017 (EDT)

== Hasbro acquiring TakTom ==
Oh boy, this is a big one. This is going to be mentioned to this page in the future if this happens. https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/speculation-hasbro-looking-to-acquire-takara-tomy/39978/ (NOTE: This is speculation) [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 10:25, 8 November 2017 (EST)
UPDATE: Yup, that "Unifying the Brands" happened. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Cade's quote in TLK ==
Should you add Cade's "That is ''not'' Optimus" quote in this page as a meta reference to the fans and the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Beast? ==

Given the frequency of the two subjects popping up together, I am actually curious. Has anyone ever accused the Beast of ruining the franchise forever? Or is it one of those thankfully obscure things that only really comes up on this wiki and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZDj3DwXD4 The Cinema Sins review of ''Power Rangers''?] --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 17:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:I think it's one of those things that isn't obscure among TFdom, but it's also not exactly mainstream media like most of the things on that list.
:It prob belongs on this list, tho. [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 18:35, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
::The point of this list is not "bad things in the Transformers franchise" but "things the fandom overreacted to". Nobody cared about the Beast because it's a British pack-in comic that has zero influence on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:42, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:::Have you... ''seen'' the Beast, Saix? I don't know if I'd say "no influence"...
:::But in all seriousness, he is correct. Pretty much anyone who goes on a TF news-site or the like can be exposed to mainline show or comic and react to it. The Beast is more one of those things that only hardcore fans (and/or us wiki editors) really understand the reference to. It's horrifying, but not "controversial". [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 22:09, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

== Toy Distributions in 2020 ==

Looks like this example has potential given the negative reactions regarding Hasbro's lack of distribution in some countries like the UK. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 04:52, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
: No. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 07:50, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
:: (Late response) Okay, I understood. But I'm also here to remind you that the responses to the exclusives these days are alarmingly clear. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:49, 26 October 2020 (EDT)

== NFTs ==
Yup. <big>'''''Definitely'''''</big> [https://news.tfw2005.com/2022/03/07/transformers-x-funko-nft-collection-series-1-announced-451207?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter new entry worthy]. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 22:32, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:Probably not for this page, because this is a sarcastic list of things that people overreact to but turn out to not be that bad in the long run. NFTs don't quite fit that, being unironically and unabashedly terrible. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 22:49, 7 March 2022 (EST)
::Yeah, no. NFTs are ''objectively'' shit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:57, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:::Okay. Maybe I should SERIOUSLY read the page carefully next time. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 00:03, 8 March 2022 (EST)

== MOTU no longer a good example ==
In the years since the intro was written, Netflix She-Ra and "kid" He-Man have shown that that property can be rebuilt to appeal to new, more diverse audiences. GIJoe still entombed in amber, though. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:51, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
:Honestly, Joe as the sole punchline without Mickey or MOTU feels more effective anyway. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:08, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

== Possible addtion - Pronouns? ==
Considering the uproar about Nightshade's pronouns being mentioned like, twice, maybe we could add Pronouns to the list and tag them? (Cue all those people saying that EarthSpark is indoctrinating children lol)
Or add Nightshade to the "SJW" part, since "woke" and "SJW" are pretty much used synonymously nowadays [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 18:51, 3 January 2024 (EST)
: I don't see any mention of that storm in a teacup on <s>his</s> their page, and frankly I'm disinclined to give the matter any oxygen. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:26, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:: "His"? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 20:40, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::guh it's been a long day --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:42, 3 January 2024 (EST)
:::: Valid, let's leave this topic to the whiners to Reddit and X... fingers crossed for season 2! [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 23:03, 3 January 2024 (EST)

Talk:Ruined FOREVER

2024-01-03T23:51:19Z

Thunderwave:

==Regarding deletion==
I see no point to having this article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:There are 4 instances of Ruined Forever on [[Transformers timeline|this page]] alone. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::I see no point to having those, either. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::JaAm has a page. 'Ruined Forever' is used ironically within the fandom- and this is clearly marked as a fandom article just like [[True fan]] is. Ruined Forever is clearly more prominent than [[Dull surprise]], though possibly not as widely as [[Neon]]. (Which now that I look at it need its opening quote reformatted...) My entire impetus for creating it was that Sntint made an ironic Ruined Forever joke on a talk page and I was like- "huh, why dont' we have a page for that?" (Well, also I wanted to wash the bad tast of [[Don Murphy|Don Murray]] out of my brain.)
:::Ruined Forever appears to rest comfortably within the range of existing articles on the Wiki, but I am content to allow others to decide. If a majority think it's not relevant to Transformers the article can be deleted, as always. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::::I say it's as relevant as Playskool, neon, and FIRRIB. {{unsigned|Terrocon Blot}}
:::::And Derik on the rebound to make me feel dumber. It's not enough that I misspelled my own screenname, he's also got to sign my posts for me. Damn that Derik. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 07:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the page. As already stated, a number of other pages already exist to explain similar fandom colloquialisms. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 13:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't see this article as explaining anything. It seems to exist purely to ridicule fandom behavior that we don't like, and thus I see no point to keeping it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay too. Where else would terms like ''Ruined FOREVER'', [[Furmanism]], and Chewed caramels be documented for all time, if not here?--[[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 14:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Do these fandom terms need to be ones that are famous/infamous, known or used widely? Then how about TFW2005's 'HE TELL ME' (in reference to that guy who claimed Peter Cullen was cast as RID Prime)? TFW2005 is probably the most prominent of the Transformers fan sites, as well as the one that Hasbro seems to unofficially prefer. I personally never even heard of 'dull surprise' until I read it on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Nor I. But I don't think we're just documenting memes-- each of these articles, Truk !Munky, Chewed caramels even JaAm are 'about' a belief/response/tendency in fandom- not just the phrase used to illustrate it. Dull Surprise is a belief the masturbatory praise heaped on Superstar Funana was undeserved, JaAm is about the backlash against Dreamwave's style-over-sanity lack of visual storytelling, Truk not Monkey encompasses both knee-jerk hatred of BW and frustration about knee-jerks, and Chewed caramels ''seems'' to be about a desire that all TF toylines subscribe to some broad interpretation of G1's design aesthetic. I doubt anyone put ''conscious thought'' into this, but the fandom-meme articles people found worthy of creating aren't ''just'' about the phrase- they're about phrases that expresses something larger about how fans relate to Transformers.
::(I'm not familiar with 'HE TELL ME' and where it may fall with this.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think dull surprise is way too limited in use (basically just #wiigii! as far as I know) to really belong here, but Derik does sort of have a point about the article being about a little more than that. I also don't know "HE TELL ME" but it sounds like something worth considering -- claims of unnamed inside sources and all that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Oops, it was actually Peter Cullen as Armada Prime. The posts (being from 2002), no longer exists, but fortunately blitz_64 managed to save the posts for posterity [http://www.geocities.com/blitz_64/HETELLME.html The Saga of HE TELL ME and GoOP].

::::Actually, Steve-o, I'd say "Secret Inside Sources" would be a more appropriate meme/article to describe that last one. Having never heard of "HE TELL ME", and seeing that few others apparently have either, I'm not sure it's as much a meme as "Secret Inside Sources" is.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Around the same period, I recall some other idiot who claimed to be a Hasbro photographer and described crazy things like the Mini-Cons becoming body armour and Prime's minicon transforming into his Matrix. These claims, while totally false, were important because they apparently spurred Aaron to emerge as ORSON and totally destroy that other dude, IIRC. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I remember that quite vividly indeed. The guy who claimed to be the photographer actually revealed himself over [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26415&st=20&p=551756&#entry551756 at the Allspark this year], actually. Oh yeah, and I think the animu thing was 4Chan leakage [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=animu].--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I say we keep it. [[User:Compy-Rex|Compy-Rex]] 18:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Compy-Rex
:If this page is deleted I will cry. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 05:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

==Usage==
Has "ruined forever" ever been used seriously by fans? While it describes a real and annoying sentiment, I'm not sure I like basing an article on a phrase that was sarcastic in the first place. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I'm sure something very similar, at least, has been used. But regardless, you say that it describes a real sentiment, so, what's the problem? Can you recommend a better title for the article? Or are you saying the article shouldn't exist at all? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well, my vote is for not existing at all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I (and a number of others) used to think "Rapeing my childood" was only used for sarcastic reasons. Then I read the thread on the promo poster for Transformers Animated, which had a number or people using the seriously. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Has Trukk not Munky ever been used in a non Ironic/Sarcastic way? It's still a catchphrase used by the fandom, as is this. Both rate articles under the fandom category, IMo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:The '''scream your head off in outraged panic''' / '''call for mass-firings or send death threats over something that has/will ruin/ed TF''' ''behavior'' of this article certainly was in evidence during Beast Machines- and I think the "sky is falling" aspect is amply evidenced by the sheer ''number'' of times fans have declared TF ruined forever. (And, clearly, been wrong every time, or every time but 1 depending on your belief system.)
:If you have some other title you'd prefer for this article like 'Clicken-Little Syndrome' by all means propose it and see what people think, but the article speaks to a genuine (and highly mockable) aspect of fandom psychology.
:And frankly, while the ''behavior'' itself is worthy of ridicule, the ''reason'' for it- an exaggerated concern for the health and future of the brand- is actually kinda ''endearing'' and speaks well of fans. At least their ''hearts'' are in the right place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

==Paul Dini==

I think accusing the fandom of saying the art style of Paul Dini ''the writer'' being used for Animated will "RUIN TRANSFORMERS FOREVER" is making the article simply too mean-spirited. I've never seen any individual display the idiocy we're accusing the fandom of with that line. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 05:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have.
Scary, scary stuff.

Also, the last line of the entry seems to cut a little into the humor by overexplaining. Replace it with a "general hasbro idiocy" linking to "transformers" or somesuch?

==Marked for deletion.==

This is getting out of hand.

This page has become the epicenter of an edit war that has gone on for nearly a week now. As of the time of this writing, only six other pages link to this article. While I fully support the light tone of Teletraan I, and I understand that some explanation of aspects of the fandom complete the Wiki, I believe this particular article and debate at this point only detracts from the issue.

I DO agree that it was biased in the form in which it existed before our anonymous editor "friend" decided to change it, but I do not think that matters any longer. This article does not add anything inherently positive to the wiki, indeed, it does not chronicle anything positive ''or'' negative about Transformers itself at all. Its relation to Transformers is tangential at best.

By deleting this, we would not lose anything except the beginnings of what appear to be the modern equivalent of a Usenet flamewar. Deleting it, I believe, can only benefit Teletraan I. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 12:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree. I didn't feel this article was necessary, and I still don't. I agree that the fandom is full of idiots who never bothered to grow up after 1986, but our mockery of them doesn't belong in the wiki. Not to say that Mister "integrity of the characters" is right, though. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm putting in a vote for keeping it. It's a fun article to read, and it speaks a lot of truth in it's wonderfully snarky way.--[[User:Gouki|Gouki]] 12:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Snarkyness can be fun but this article is just pushing it, IMO. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::I think it should stay, it's funny. Also, if you delete it then the terrorists win.
::::::I would keep it. I think it describes a real sentiment, that needs to be pointed out as overblown. [[User:JW|JW]] 13:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The edit war was only between registered users and a single unregistered dude. I've fixed things, at least for the moment, by protecting the page from unregistered editors. If you're gonna get in a pissy editing war, we'd damn well better know who you are. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Our anonymous friend is from the Netherlands, if anybody cares. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This "Ruined FOREVER" article is stupid and don't make any sense. Its just shit

: [[Seafood Louis]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if the opinion of an anon means anything, but I think this article is freaking hilarious. I was talking with a friend about TF:Animated and he said that the girl with the transforming bike 'ruined it permanently' so I linked him this article. He laughed and said, 'ok, well maybe I'm over-reacting.'

I think the article is funny and provides valuable perspective. {{unsigned|66.167.253.76}}
: Well said, citizen. [[User:JW|JW]] 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've cancelled out the other anon from earlier, at any rate. And yeah, I agree with your assessment of it.--[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Same --[[User:Chiasaur11|Chiasaur11]]

I happen to think this article is incredibly useful in charting the tendency for all fans everywhere (but especially TF fans) to react in comical and hyperbolic ways. I think the breadth of what people determine can/has ruined TF forever automatically makes the article an amusing and insightful look for the novice fan into the fandom's reactionary past.

Indeed, I actually have shown this article to people just coming back (or getting into) TF. It's inspired about as many laughs as it has genuine curiosity as to what the fandom and franchise are like as entities. Isn't that the idea of this wiki? I would think reference materials as to the history of the fandom, good and bad, are always a boon.

(and that aside, I just think it's really, really funny)

.... Aaaaaaand I had to go and screw up. Bah. That's me above. --[[User:Cmdr Crayfish|Cmdr Crayfish]] 10:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

==Where do we draw the line?==
How do we stop this from becoming just a giant list of everything that anyone has ever expressed any dislike for ever? Why, for instance, is ''The Beast Within'' in there? Or Gonzo (which I thought was generally accepted as at least ''better'' than We've, even if not as good at Mainframe)? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've kinda been watching this list grow with some mild irritation- it went from about 1 item for every 2 years to ''twice'' that in fairly short order, and that bothers me.
:I've sorta resolved to edit the list down this October, pruning it (so to speak) with some opportunity for people to say what should stay and what should go.
:The Beast Within has to stay though- at the ''very'' least it ruined the Dinobots forever- now whenever George Rodd brings up combiner Dinobots we have to grudgingly admit they're canon. Also, it was the reason for the article's creation in the first place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why wait? If we want this to be a list of developments that prompted widespread fury that lingered for years, we can shorten it to "Actionmasters, BW, BM, Armada, Hallit, and Bay," and perhaps a few others, right now. Then a "Trivia" note saying that The Beast Within really DID ruin Transformers, or at least Dinobots, forever. Just a thought... but yeah, having every single series in there dilutes the point. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 19:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Problem is, how do you decide what deserves to be listed as ruining TF forever, if none of it really did in the first place. I've seen just about everything listed there used as an example of why ____ TF series/movie/toyline will fail--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 20:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, Thy, I'd append your list with a general "*-masters" thing, as a lot of armchair CEOs claim that the entire -master trend killed the line, not the fact that it had, you know, run its course. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 14:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'll just basically agree with Thy and Hoop that whatever's listed here should have a certain "endurance" as a scapegoat. The turnaround of opinion on Animated was what, two weeks? "* Masters" certainly counts, as should Pretenders. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::What, a simple a Google newsgroup search for [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22killed+transformers%22&start=10&sa=N&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&|"killed transformers"] ain't enough? /:] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I doubt I'd get objections if I added it, but I'd like to throw it by the community: Should we readd [[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Kiss Players]]? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 04:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I really think Animated should stay in there, if only because it's '''such a dramatic departure.''' Turn around was fast, but the initial reaction was strong. I mean, for the first time in fifteen years of being a fan, I actually found myself muttering "My god... they've finally done it. It's ruined..." --[[User:70.190.251.10|70.190.251.10]] 05:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

beast wars didnt reuin tf beast machines sorta did but it was still quite good ,if u ignore some minor things - Unsigned post by [[User:80.6.180.141|80.6.180.141]]
:You're missing the point of the article, then. The point is that every time something new comes along, the fandom screams about how it will ruin Transformers forever, when in reality it's usually the opposite. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Last Deletion Locked in?==
Spotted a couple of points on the list removed by [[Special:Contributions/Teletraan|someone who seems to like deleting stuff just because]], but when I tried to restore the page, it was already locked. Were his edits accepted, then?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:There are two facets to this. First, without occasional pruning, the list in this article tends to grow, and grow, and grow. Every now and then, someone has to come along and cut it back. Since this is a wiki, the question of what gets cut is made by the person willing to do the cutting.
:The second facet is that the items cut were in fact less core to the "ruined forever" concept. "Runined forever" is a cry that springs up whenever ''something new is added to the Transformers brand'' by HasTak, and it happens every single time. Thus, the fans ''can't'' ruin TF forver, because they don't add new canon. And, while HasTak ''can'' ruin TF forever, it's because they're the only ones who can do so. I.e., one of the cut items was in error, and one was redundant. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
::Fair enough, I suppose. It was a combination of both the deletions and the person who committed them that made me question their validity.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:::Yah, user Teletraan is not exactly a primo contributor. Still, this particular edit seems (at minimum) defensible. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

==Masters of the Universe link==
I've never, ever been interested in MOTU, so I have no idea what was the cause of the revamp line's failure, but given the extreme slant of the article, I can only assume it failed because it concentrated on collectors rather than kids. If so, why does it link to a Wikipedia article that cites Mattel's ''"excessive focus on attempting to mass-market the line to a new generation of children rather than focusing on a safer collector-based approach"'' as the reason for the line's failure? Am I missing something or does that sound like the line tanked because it focused on selling toys to kids rather than what this article is railing against? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
: Guess who wrote the Wikipedia article. (Hint: It wasn't kids.) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:: The fact is the line failed, no one can say *exactly* why. There are reasons for both oppinions.

::'''Fact:''' The line DID court fans rather than kids in many ways. It didn't reinvent the boat but took the exact looks, exact characters, and in some cases even exact stories the fans clamored for and did them again, only better, prettier, smarter, and more "realisticly". In that respect it was pretty much EXACTLY what older fans of '80s properties clamor for, and said fans generally loved it. But for whatever reason it never caught on with '''actual kids''' in the way the simple, campy, primitive, bowlegged original did. So some see that and blame the line's failure on the older fan mentality.

::'''Also Fact:''' Mattel tried to sell the toyline the way they had Batman. I.E. A million goofy variations on He-man and Skelator (and one or two others) and everyone else was almost impossible to find or didn't get a figure at all. This was very much NOT what collectors wanted. Many blame it for the line's failure at retail, arguing that part of what made the original a hit where the huge variety of strange and different warriors and monsters that Mattel had left out this time in favor of flooding the shelves with He-man repaints and ill-concieved alterations (The entire wave of "samori repaints on stilts" is often pointed to, but are only one of many examples.) Some see this and blame an ill-concieved inapropriate retail stratagy aimed at marketing to kids having crippled the line's retail appeal.

::Personally I think there's some truth to BOTH. For whatever reason (timing, approach, luck,) the older fan oriented cartoon never clicked with the kiddies, '''AND''' the Batman-style retail stratagy was a bad choice for a MOTU type toyline. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was the feeling I got, that is there is no clear cut side to 'blame', and in this case, I think we should ditch the Masters of the Universe link, given the information there contradicts the slant of this article, and in any case it's not a clear cut case of 'it's all the collectors fault'. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Hrm, there's some legitimate thought there... but it ruins the G.I. Joe comparison. (Why catering to adult collectors and abandoning attempts at reinvention is a losing strategy in the long run necause ther old dudes die off and uyou're not bringing new fans in.)
::::For what it's worth, I meant from design and marketing- I agree that the actual toyline was schitzophrenic- alternating between a slavish adherence to the original designs and case assortments aimed at kida who weren't watching the cartoon.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Here's an idea - how about one of you guys (who actually know about MOTU) edit the wikipedia article so it's more balanced, so we don't end up looking like idiots in this article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that even in today's environment, the military has ''some'' pull to kids. Not so much the gay, gay fur-bikini barbarians. Sword-and-sorcery has some appeal nowadays, but mostly when it's very Japanesey kids-anime-style. (One could also note that the "big" Joe revival frankly isn't very big. It's pretty damn low-key, really, where He-Man was some major-league THIS WILL BE BIG!!! Lower expectations = greater chance of meeting and exceeding them.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd also imagine that production costs on the 25th anniversary Joe figs are pretty darn reasonable on Hasbro's bookkeeping. They've done similar lines for Star Wars for decades, so they know what they're doing.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really annoyed that the GI Joe 25th line isn't available here, because Hasbro AU's last attempt to revive GI Joe in Australia totally tanked. If you can believe it, Toys R Us stores here languished under piles of unsold Cobra Trooper 6-packs, which, as I've read in forums, collectors were fighting over. They're not on pegs anymore, so I guess they've been shredded or incinerated by now.--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So have we decided on this link yet? The Wikipedia link still contradicts the snarky joke link of this article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:It's always going to, because there will always, ''always'' be enough people who are going to make sure that the bullshit boogeyman "CASE RATIOS!! CASE RATIOS!!! KIDS WANTED ALL THOSE OBSCURE ONE-EPISODE GUYS AND USELESS MINOR VILLANS!!!!!" (while patently ignoring the fact that if you can't sell your ''two primary characters in the line'', maybe there's something wrong with your franchise, not case ratios... it'd be like if a Batman line couldn't sell toys of Batman) is squarely blamed for MOTU's failure. Frankly, I'd say just add a note to OUR article saying "ignore the bullshit about case ratios. Kids just didn't want a line about a boring gay man in a fur bikini." --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ignoring your general disdain for He-man here, and even the whole case ratio issue, the fact remains that saying (as our snark does) that the newer He-man line "catered exclusively to older collectors" and that this caused its failure is both unprovable, AND very widely disputed. I'd say we should remove the link on those issues alone. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC) (-'''Edit:''' On a side-note, given the apparent success of the 25th ann. line and the coming movie, the critical G.I.Joe link in there may soon be meaninglessly out of date as well...)

:::And this is my point - we'll start looking like idiots who can't even get our facts or jokes straight if we insist on keeping these links. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I see Zac's point- but I think he's reacting to something that's not in the article. We're holding the MOTU reboot as an example of a line that abandoned all attempt at reinvention. Since there ''was'' not reinvention in the reboot line, at all, this should not be up for dispute.
:::We do not say that this is ''why'' the line failed. It probably ''was'', but we don't say that. We merely hold it up as an apporach that's probably unhealthy for Transformers to follow.
:::So to be really blunt-- I don't care what whiny fanboys may have edited Wikipedia to say in support of their view that the line was perfect and viable the way it was. '''A)''' That's masturbatory. '''B)''' It's not what this article is talking about, so it's simply not relevant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::But it says 'cater exclusively to the old-school collectors', which the line evidently did not do. In which case, regardless of if we are holding up as an approach that TF should not follow, it's not a good example in the context of the very joke-link, especially if it sends the reader to an article that disputes the joke. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::In this context, that 'catering' refers to design, not case assortments. We're discussing ''reinvention''. One does not 'reinvent' case assortments! And in terms of designs, characters etc... MOTU ''did'' cater. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::More to the point- we're discussing changign the content on ''this'' page because highly dubious artument on Wikipedia disagrees with something ''we're not even saying here''.
:::::If Wikipedia had a bullshit argument we were actually refuting I might kinda understand this. But we're not! We are actually arguing about removing a link to an article because fanboys have jizzed across it in ways that contradict things our article ''doesn't'' say, but which 'might run through that same fanboy's mind as they read our article.'
:::::While '''I''' clearly feel the fanboy argument is specious-at-best '''it doesn't matter'''. We say it catered to collectors. That's it! '''It's just an example of one extreme a toyline can take.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why is The [[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Armada]] series , [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] series, the [[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]], and [[Exclusive]]s listed here?[[User:Autobot Soundwave|Autobot Soundwave]] 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because fans reacted [[Trukk not munky|very]] [[Pokeformers|negatively]] to a lot of these things, which went on to become major successes. It's satire. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because they ruined Transformers forever, of course.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the list ==

The Cliff Notes version: there's very little reason to.

The full version: Contrary to what [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER many people think], this is not a list of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER everything Transformers ever]. It is not even a list of everything Transformers that fans have ever complained about. It is a list of the relative handful of times that something ground-shaking and new has come along, something totally different from what's gone before, something that's not exactly like 1984, that causes people to complain that Transformers has irrevocably jumped the shark and begun sinking into an irreversible oblivion. All this doomsaying is then typically followed by the franchise surging back to life as the awful horrible new thing turns out to be a smashing success. Alternately, the horrible new thing quietly fades away while the franchise chugs along to the next new thing.

Thing is, anybody who's stuck with Transformers to this point is used to these reinventions. Perspective has grown long enough that plenty of fans now understand that anything they don't like will be gone in a year or two. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I only read the Allspark boards and they're fairly intelligent, but cries of RUINED FOREVER are increasingly rare these days.

I don't see why Drift is on the list. Plenty of people think he sucks, but nobody's claiming he's going to bring down the whole franchise. ''All Hail Megatron'' would be a better candidate, because people (including myself!) ''are'' claiming that IDW's whole storyline has been permanently destroyed by it. (You could also make a case for ''Energon'' ("bad anime"), ''Prime Directive'' ("MATURE ADULT XXX" or "Buckets of Blood" or "Pat Lee"), and/or Dreamwave ("The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man", "Superstars", "Bankruptcy").

I don't see why stolen prototypes are on the list. Yeah, some of us make a fuss over them. Y'know why? Because HASBRO THEMSELVES HAS SAID THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. There's no ridiculously overblown grasping-at-straws fandom absurdity to mock here.

And I'd need to see a LOT of linked posts before I'd accept ROTF on the list. I can't fathom someone having complaints about ROTF that didn't also apply to the first movie. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:10, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

:There are new complaints about ROTF - about [[Mudflap (ROTF)|these]] [[Skids (ROTF)|two]].--[[Special:Contributions/172.162.17.159|172.162.17.159]] 08:34, 10 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree with Repowers 100%. If anything, I think the list could use some trimming. Are people complaining about the Twins? Sure! Is ANYONE saying that Transformers, as a franchise, is over/tainted? Umm ... not that I've heard. Certainly no substantial block of the fandom.
::And stolen prototypes, while I DO think people make a somewhat biggish deal about them, don't really belong on the list either. A: as Repowers points out, Hasbro itself has legitimized the concern. B: people getting annoyed about something is NOT the same as saying that the Transformers brand is beyond recovery. Hell, even AHM seems like a stretch. I think that most of the fandom has gained enough hindsight to know that, at worst, AHM represents a change in direction for *IDW'S* story, but certainly not the end of Transformers as we know it. Hell, ROTF and Animated were contemporary, and both were tremendous successes.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 09:48, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure we we can't have Energon on this list, seeing all the complaints on this very wiki, but, eh.--[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] 08:00, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:I disagree. I've read on here that people LIKED it at first, but eventually lost faith/the will to live after watching it. The list chronicles the events which work the OTHER way around. [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 09:07, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I'd say the list has nothing to do with how good something is, but more with complaints from the fandom and especially even before the thing in question has been released. Having said that, does RiD really warrant a place on the list? Was there really that much of a commotion about it? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm surprised "G1 Bayformers", aka Don Figueroa's new drawing style isn't on this list, given that almost every single opinion on it I found was a flame.....--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:30, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::I loath it to the core of my petty, petty being... but i don't see it as something that will kill or taint the franchise. Kiss-Player is still squicking people ''years'' later... the fact the Japanese owners basically licensed TF loli guro porn is something that genuinely shocks people and lessens their opinion of TF as a whole-- especially since it's not one of those 'worse than it sounds' things, the closer you look, the more disturbing it actually gets. An unpleasant art style inflicted on the comparatively small comic-book audience... just isn't in the same ballpark.
::::I think it's harmed ''IDW'''s Transformers brand equity... people seem a lot more skeptical and a lot more negative of editorially-generated jerking around of the TF brand, because they've now repeatedly dumped directions they committed to in order to chase imaginary gains that never materialized-- apparently heedless of the negative baggage piled on the story in the process. (One more major reset in pursuit of some sort of magical deckchair configuration the editors are convinced is more important than telling good stories... and I might as well be reading DC!) But not the brand overall. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Not to get all chat roomy here, but... what he said. Oh dear lord, WHAT HE SAID. (Derik, have you posted that sentiment to IDW's boards?) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

==How about that B.O.T episode==

To many fans, it's considered to be the worst G1 episode ever, so I think it should be placed here. [[User:Dinoman96|Dinoman96]] 17:23, 23 November 2009 (EST)
:Yea, but this isn't a list of what people just call "bad" - it's a list of the things that threw the fandom into a colossal uproar and actually caused people to say Transformers was ruined forever, more for the fact that they were drastically or outlandishly new and different than for their actually being of poor quality. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

==Drift==
Shouldn't we add [[Drift (G1)| this Mary Sue]] to Runied FOREVER? {{unsigned|24.62.9.241}}
:No. He hasn't ruined anything forever. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:55, 17 August 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe you should read the page above before you add to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

==A quick question (not about adding additional items)...==

Anyone else think that a funnier name for ''Prime'' would be Bayformers Teen Titans? I ask because we've got Bayformers and Teen Titans on the list, and Bayformers Animated kind of throws off the flow. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:03, 16 December 2010 (EST)
:To me at least, "Bayformers Animated" flows much better than "Bayformers Teen Titans". --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 20:04, 16 December 2010 (EST)
::A fair point. I meant it more in the manner of fitting with what else was in the article. Not a big deal either way, I suppose. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:12, 16 December 2010 (EST)

== Parodies of this page in other media ==

Just in case you didn't noticed it, this page has been parodied several times and in different media:

* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER (As noted, this wiki is the trope namer for "Ruined FOREVER")
* http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx
* http://www.helloweenboard.com/topic/4063-seven-sinner-discussion-thread/page__view__findpost__p__336072
* http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47999&page=1
* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER
* http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/warmachine/163237-blight-spreading-nites-cryx-blog.html#post1416664
* http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Ruined_FOREVER
{{unsigned|201.212.60.105}}

:I love how the Wookiepedia people completely missed the point. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:40, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::...their version seems basically the same sarcastic treatment as ours. Are you reading a different page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:43, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
:::They seemed a lot more concerned with insignificant detail than this wiki is. However, in retrospect, "completely missed the point" was a bit strong on my part. Maybe the Star Wars fandom is more temperamental than we are? [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:49, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::::"''MAYBE''", he says! :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
: Not really parodies, more just... versions. [[User:Esser-Z|Esser-Z]] 11:40, 29 December 2011 (EST)
::Adaptations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:54, 29 December 2011 (EST)

== Literal for once ==

Pat Lee. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:31, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
: Transformers survived him, so not really literally, no. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:00, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:: The franchise as a whole, but not Dreamwave. Or his reputation. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
::: Not the point of the page. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 21:20, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

== Autobots who didn't turn into cars ==

[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/615489-what-characters-killed-g1.html Transformers was ruined FOREVER in 1985!] Seriously.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:39, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
:TFW2005 ruined Transformers forever.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 15:07, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

== Dark of the Moon ==
*The first and second movies by Michael bay are on the list, but why not the third. Lots of people complained about the third one. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 07:49, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
::Getting on this page takes more than simple complaints. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:16, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

== Rescue Bots ==
I propose adding rescue bots to this list, only listed as rescue heroes, or Eureka. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 20:26, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:...but it's universally beloved. Surely no Transformers fan could hate ''fun''?! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:51, 12 December 2012 (EST)
::While I agree that in moderation fun is enjoyable, its creation did cause the standard "Ruined FOREVER" response that would deem it necessary to add to the page in the best interests of keeping an accurate database. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 18:29, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::...Which died down about a week later, with only the few stubborn mules of the fandom remaining intolerant of it. This list contains things that have had lasting backlash that ran deep. Rescue Bots never got such deep-filled hatred as the things covered by this list. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:09, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== Windblade ==
Given the kerfuffle a certain segment of the fanbase made over Windblade, ahould she and/or her series be added to this list? And if so, as what? [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 22:10, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:This is just me, but I'd say we wait a bit more and see how her series and its portrayal of her character are received first. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
::You know this fandom better than I do... I'm not always active in forums or anything... so I'll defer to your judgement. But from what I heard, the drama got really stupid at some points. [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 21:45, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:::The loudmouths are a minority at this point, people are being really vocal about how much they're enjoying the book. People are being mixed about whether they like the writing or the art more, but in general I'm seeing a favorable response to the art and an appreciation for its snappy writing. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] ([[User talk:Antimatter|talk]]) 22:06, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
::::IMO the drama was less to do with Windblade and more about the "brief conflict" between Scott and Furman referenced on ''Spotlight: Arcee'''s page - the worst criticism of Windblade I've seen is that she's kinda dull so far (and that was from me). I remember Drift raising far more ire when he was introduced and Drift isn't listed here. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 02:58, 23 April 2014 (EDT)
:::::That's because IDW shilled Drift as "super cool" and that he'd be "their Wolverine". Windblade, on the other hand, wasn't shilled as a super cool "Wolverine", which is probably why she's been received better than Drift was.[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] ([[User talk:Spin-Out|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2014 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Star Saber's English-language bio for the Australian release ==

Wow, the nerdrage over a little bonus addition for a limited run official import of a Japanese toy that references established IDW fiction is ''amazing''. If that bio doesn't ruin Transformers FOREVER, nothing can.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:11, 4 February 2015 (EST)
:As always, my instinct in a situation like this is to wait for at least 3-4 months to see if there is widespread and sustained griping. Many people want to find a way to include, well, virtually everything on this page, and most TF franchises just don't get that level of sustained vitriol to warrant inclusion.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:20, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::I don't think we even need to be that conservative. Nobody is going to claim that one regional release of one toy has ''ruined the entire Transformers franchise''. There's no new innovation or franchise re-invention going on here. It's just one bio on one toy and some people raging for a day or two.
::As I've said before, RUINED FOREVER is not just "BUHR ME FAN HATE THING". It's "This new and different thing means that Transformers cannot and will not ever be good again" (add "because new things are bad" as needed), followed by Transformers surviving, thriving, and continuing to be good. In this age of live action movies, there's not much left that can shake the franchise to its core like that. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 00:04, 5 February 2015 (EST)

== DOTM Soundwave and Wheeljack cancelled in USA ==

Is that ruined forever? Many fans compalined about them cancelled and how they got too many Bumblebees.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 06:43, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:No, that is not "ruined forever". Ruined Forever is large scale complaining about things that have supposedly irredeemably damaged the brand. And the complaining has to continue for a long period of time. Fans were upset about this, but it didn't drag on for years and years. Or even months and months. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:52, 10 February 2015 (EST)

== Autobot Megatron ==

Alot of fans were really upset with Megatron joining the autobots...That can be considered as a `RUINED FOREVER".
[[User:Hyruk|Hyruk]] ([[User talk:Hyruk|talk]]) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:This doesn't sound like something that happened. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] ([[User talk:Nu-Priest|talk]]) 18:13, 10 February 2015 (EST)
::Megatron never joined the Autobots ([[Megatron (SG)|though there is a mirrorverse Megatron of course]]) but we don't talk about fanfics, only official fiction.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 08:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
:::Go read the IDW comics, it happened. Or wait for [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Leader|this toy]]. But again, this is nowhere near the level of complaining that is necessary for Ruined Forever. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
::::But what's wrong if Megatron is an Autobot? It's supposed to be nice because that means there are no Decepticons and no war.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 03:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
:::::Which would pretty much END the fiction. No conflict, no drama, no story.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)

In the allinged continuity, he becomes an Autobot in the Beast Hunters Predicons Rising movie. [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 23:09, 1 August 2015 (EDT)

=="Radical Feminist SJWs"==

Can we remove this entry from the list? It just seems like pointless flamebait to me- not to mention that in my experience, practically nobody believes that female Transformers "ruined" the brand. I mean, you have some people (including the mighty Simon Furman himself) who find the idea of gender in a race of robots kinda silly because, well, they're robots- an opinion I personally disagree with but still understand- but in all my time as a Transformers fan I've never seen ANYONE having the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the existance of female Transformers that this entry is implying, even on the 4chan Transformers threads.

Plus, quite aside from anything else, it's an open invitation for LOLDRAMA and not even that funny.[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 12:43, 19 September 2015 (EDT)

* As far as I can tell, the only people who had trouble with it were the writers for some of the comics, under the justification that as automata, Transformers shouldn't have genders. That said, no one complained and after Arcee's head-turning introduction to the series, more of them showed up without incident, meaning either a shift in attitude or pressure from Hasbro.

: So yeah, pretty much. Don't need it. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 14:44, 11 December 2015 (EST)

Nnnnnyeah, that one's staying.
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/125522205664
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/124075222269
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/122682384287
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/129784394268
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/128712971726
http://fucknotfw2005.tumblr.com/post/121195549217
There is literally an entire Tumblr dedicated to cataloging angry reactions to women in Transformers and how "social justice" is ruining it further. Hundreds of entries. If you missed all of it, then you're blessed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:13, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:I mean, seriously, this is one of the few entries on the page that can [http://fusion.net/story/182445/misogynistic-fans-cant-deal-with-the-new-female-transformers/ actually be supported by articles] [http://www.avclub.com/article/hasbro-declares-war-boys-announcing-female-transfo-218595 on non-Transformers websites]. It belongs on here more than most others, if this were a wiki which was going for any kind of Wikipedia-style notability. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:16, 11 December 2015 (EST)
:: Well, my day is ruined forever. I could seriously have gone my whole life without learning about this tumblr.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 15:20, 11 December 2015 (EST)
Meh, most of the posts linked in that Tumblr (or at least the ones you linked) seemed to be fairly reasonable, and far from the outright disgust that usually accompanies cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Heck, there were actually a few fairly valid points here and there amidst the "I disagree with the direction IDW is taking the franchise" posts (most notably that men might be better at managing/marketing a boy-oriented toyline, just as women might be better for girl-oriented toylines). Unless "Ruined FOREVER" now means "Not everyone agrees this is a 100% good thing" I still think it's a pretty petty, unnecessary addition to an otherwise decent article. Now if you want real Ruined Forever butthurt just look at the reactions to Alpha Bravo, Offroad, Rook and Blastoff-as-a-jet.

Also, you aren't helping your case any by linking to clickbait articles. C'mon, we're better than this.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:08, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:...wow. Now this entry is staying even more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:18, 20 December 2015 (EST)
I beg your pardon? Is simply stating the fact that the cited sources did not display a particularly vicious level of backlash, especially compared to, say, the absolute atomic butthurt experienced by the fandom due to the existence of Alpha Bravo and the other CW newbies, now some kind of capital offence? I certainly don't think I said anything that even remotely deserved that level of condescension.--[[User:Squigsquasher|Squigsquasher]] ([[User talk:Squigsquasher|talk]]) 17:44, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::No, no, he needed to use more condescension. You're agreeing with some awful-ass bigoted shit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 17:58, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Yeah, I was toning it down, really. Because the contention that new Combiner components complaints were somehow more vicious and awful than the shit leveled at the existence of more female TFs, including female TFs who don't look like metal Barbies (adding a nice layer of transphobia to the mix) is patently ridiculous, repulsive horseshit, and you are NOT going to win this one, so just stop now. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:01, 20 December 2015 (EST)

Both those websites linked push agendas up the asshole, and pulling shit off some obscure Tumblr page doesn't really help one's argument. Also, it's funny seeing Walky defend entry. Why don't we compromise? Remove the shit about feminism and SJWs and replace it with something like... "More female Transformers"? It makes the people mad look like strawmen, but it's a start. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek]]~~ ([[User talk:TheTFGeek:talk]])
:Oh, and I won't be able to reply immediately because I'll be hitting the hay soon. Please take into consideration my idea and try to act civilized (not that you all aren't). Oh, and apologies for attacking you like that, Walky. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Hahahahah "agendas" hahahahhahahahah no. No, it is not going away. Coddling bigoted, misogynistic shit is not "civilized", its scummy and won't be tolerated here. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:::I would sooner raze this website to the ground than allow something I pay for to coddle smallminded 4chan concern trolling about "agendas." It stays. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 03:57, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::Shit, I was trying to act nice and compromise, but, alright, have it your way. Also, M, are you telling me you really can't tell when news sites push agendas? ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::::Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 12:32, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha this fool won't actually argue with me and has to reply in a insulting manner hahahahahahahahah ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:It's interesting how nobody's ever asked that this article be more polite about fans who hate Beast Wars or the live-action films or whatever. No, it's just the fans who hate female characters who deserve that! [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 07:31, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Gamergate has finally reached our shores. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::I had a good feeling someone would bring that up... ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
:::I wonder why. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:I'm unclear regarding how the obscurity or otherwise of the tumblr page is relevant when it is reposting stuff people have said on a major Transformers fan site. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:56, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::My two Euro-Cents: Do I ''personally'' need female Transformers? Not necessarily. Do I hate the concept of female Transformers? Hell no. Do I oppose the introduction of more female Transformers characters? Not if they're written well, which they seem to be for the most part. (I particularly enjoy Nautica!) Is the backlash hilariously over the top? Absolutely. Is it indicative of misogyny deeply rooted in many members of our jolly little fandom? Definitely. Does it belong on this page? Well, of course.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 17:13, 21 December 2015 (EST)

==Locked==
If ever there was a page that deserved to be locked, it's this one. The idea that it needs some debate before we go ahead and add something here is a good one, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 08:37, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:Thank you for listening to me instead of laughing at my posts and automatically assuming I'm a troll. I'd add some insulting stuff in this next sentence, but I don't want to further agitate people. ~~[[User:TheTFGeek|TheTFGeek]]~~
::Right, I just got an idea for a bullet point; combining Dinobots, which were summarily Ruined FOREVER to the fandom after [[The Beast Within]]. It's pretty clear that that topic should probably be on here under a bullet point, at least to me. [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 17:00, 17 February 2016 (EST)

== Combiner Wars ==

Anyone else think Combiner Wars (cartoon) should be added to the list? [[User:Jcbynum1|Jcbynum1]] 23:11, 27 September 2016 EST
:No, the point of this list is things which whiners ridiculously claim have ruined Transformers but in fact have not. Terribly made productions are a separate thing. You don't see the RotF film on here with its dismally low critical reception, do you? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:19, 27 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sipher gave a big fat NO to that previously, so it's a no go. This page isn't for everything terrible or everything new, just specific stuff that was widely, irrationally feared by the fandom to spell certain irreparable doom for the Transformers brand. As bad as the CW cartoon was, it was hyped up with much anticipation and hailed by some as a sort of Second Coming of G1 in cartoon form. People were dying to see this cartoon and were thinking it could be the greatest thing ever, the very opposite of the "Ruined FOREVER" concept. And once it came out, while people saw how bad it was, they still knew that it wouldn't ruin the brand like they thought the things on this page would. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:21, 27 September 2016 (EDT)

== Apparently IDW is adding another to the list ==

According to some people 'stuck in 1984', shall we say, at least, [[Rom the Space Knight|Multi-property crossovers]] are Ruining FOREVER! Transformers as a stealth way to phase out all the 1984-introduced characters we know and love. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 04:26, 8 October 2016 (EDT)
:Once again, the list's entry requirements are not a simple as "some people complained about it". (If they were, literally everything the brand has ever done would be on the list.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 05:19, 8 October 2016 (EDT)

== HasCon ==
Given the fans' unfavorable reaction to the newest convention, any hopes for adding this to the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 13:21, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
:Has Hascon been actually accused being something that will "ruin the Transformers brand forever", or have the negative reactions just been a general dislike of some of the con's aspects? If only the latter, then no, it wouldn't be added to this page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:53, 13 June 2017 (EDT)
::Well, looks like HasCon is spared from the fires of this page. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 02:23, 15 September 2017 (EDT)
:::Great, that omission has made this page worthless. "Transformers: Ruined FOREVER" ruined FOREVER. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 23:30, 22 October 2017 (EDT)
::::At this point I would support the removal of the list of things that have ruined Transformers forever, just to make it easier to keep the page from being indiscriminately added to. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:06, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::It's already locked so only administrators can edit the page. I think bringing prospective items here means we can limit what's added all right, even if some people are going to disagree with the outcome of the discussion. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:42, 23 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::I for one was trying to make a joke. I'm not really concerned about HasCon being on this page. [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 10:17, 26 October 2017 (EDT)

== Hasbro acquiring TakTom ==
Oh boy, this is a big one. This is going to be mentioned to this page in the future if this happens. https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/speculation-hasbro-looking-to-acquire-takara-tomy/39978/ (NOTE: This is speculation) [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 10:25, 8 November 2017 (EST)
UPDATE: Yup, that "Unifying the Brands" happened. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Cade's quote in TLK ==
Should you add Cade's "That is ''not'' Optimus" quote in this page as a meta reference to the fans and the page? [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:45, 26 December 2017 (EST)

== Beast? ==

Given the frequency of the two subjects popping up together, I am actually curious. Has anyone ever accused the Beast of ruining the franchise forever? Or is it one of those thankfully obscure things that only really comes up on this wiki and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZDj3DwXD4 The Cinema Sins review of ''Power Rangers''?] --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] ([[User talk:King Starscream|talk]]) 17:14, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:I think it's one of those things that isn't obscure among TFdom, but it's also not exactly mainstream media like most of the things on that list.
:It prob belongs on this list, tho. [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 18:35, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
::The point of this list is not "bad things in the Transformers franchise" but "things the fandom overreacted to". Nobody cared about the Beast because it's a British pack-in comic that has zero influence on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:42, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
:::Have you... ''seen'' the Beast, Saix? I don't know if I'd say "no influence"...
:::But in all seriousness, he is correct. Pretty much anyone who goes on a TF news-site or the like can be exposed to mainline show or comic and react to it. The Beast is more one of those things that only hardcore fans (and/or us wiki editors) really understand the reference to. It's horrifying, but not "controversial". [[User:Crossfire|'''Cross''']][[User talk:Crossfire|'''fire''']] 22:09, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

== Toy Distributions in 2020 ==

Looks like this example has potential given the negative reactions regarding Hasbro's lack of distribution in some countries like the UK. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 04:52, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
: No. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 07:50, 8 October 2020 (EDT)
:: (Late response) Okay, I understood. But I'm also here to remind you that the responses to the exclusives these days are alarmingly clear. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 21:49, 26 October 2020 (EDT)

== NFTs ==
Yup. <big>'''''Definitely'''''</big> [https://news.tfw2005.com/2022/03/07/transformers-x-funko-nft-collection-series-1-announced-451207?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter new entry worthy]. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 22:32, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:Probably not for this page, because this is a sarcastic list of things that people overreact to but turn out to not be that bad in the long run. NFTs don't quite fit that, being unironically and unabashedly terrible. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 22:49, 7 March 2022 (EST)
::Yeah, no. NFTs are ''objectively'' shit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:57, 7 March 2022 (EST)
:::Okay. Maybe I should SERIOUSLY read the page carefully next time. [[User:FigureGunplaFan|FigureGunplaFan]] ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 00:03, 8 March 2022 (EST)

== MOTU no longer a good example ==
In the years since the intro was written, Netflix She-Ra and "kid" He-Man have shown that that property can be rebuilt to appeal to new, more diverse audiences. GIJoe still entombed in amber, though. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:51, 17 May 2022 (EDT)
:Honestly, Joe as the sole punchline without Mickey or MOTU feels more effective anyway. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:08, 17 May 2022 (EDT)

== Possible addtion - Pronouns? ==
Considering the uproar about Nightshade's pronouns being mentioned like, twice, maybe we could add Pronouns to the list and tag them? (Cue all those people saying that EarthSpark is indoctrinating children lol)
Or add Nightshade to the "SJW" part, since "woke" and "SJW" are pretty much used synonymously nowadays [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 18:51, 3 January 2024 (EST)

Dead Universe

2023-12-22T02:26:19Z

Thunderwave: /* Foreign names */

[[File:Devastation3 DeadUniverse.jpg|upright=2.2|thumb|More like DRED universe, mirite???]]

The '''Dead Universe''' is a mysterious and malevolent realm, a universe that lurks on the far side of all living worlds. This lifeless plane is home only to the vast, undead intelligence known only as the [[D-Void]], which preys upon those of the living universe, intent on using them as pawns to expand the borders of the Dead Universe, giving it new life to feed upon.

Various points of access to the Dead Universe exist, with regions of notable death and decay apparently serving as prime loci for the creation of portals between the worlds. Those who cross over from the living universe to the dead are said to become dead themselves, in both body and mind, left unable to survive outside the Dead Universe for more than short periods of time. A characteristic shared by these victims is the presence of an interdimensional link within their bodies that straddles the living and dead universes.

Sometimes, the Dead Universe is not a realm of pure evil, but rather an infinite space of nothingness, being more akin to [[unspace|transwarp space]].

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
Had nature taken its course, the Dead Universe would likely have been just another one of the many realities that exist within the [[multiverse]]. Its fate, however, was forever altered when the Decepticon scientist [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], based in the year [[2014]], used a time machine to reach back through history to the moment time began in the Dead Universe, whereupon he siphoned off its life energy from the very instant of its creation in order to fuel a grand scheme he was in the process of carrying out. The result was a stillborn universe, birthed into a state of perpetual unlife. {{storylink|The Becoming: Dark Cybertron Chapter 10|The Becoming}}

The Dead Universe would soon receive visitors: [[zombie]]s created by [[Undermind|an infestation]] from yet another universe and led by [[Britt]]. To prevent the infestation from reaching a living [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in his relative past, [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]] in [[2011]] hijacked Britt's transportation gate to teleport all of the undead nearby—Kup himself included—to the beginning of the Dead Universe, where they would find naught to feed on. {{storylink|The Transformers: Infestation issue 2|The Transformers: Infestation #2}}

The only known native entity to reside within the Dead Universe was the D-Void, which was one with the Dead Universe, and sought to expand its borders to consume the living universe. Using an aspect of itself known as the [[Darkness (G1)|Heart of Darkness]], the D-Void sought out catspaws within the living universe; [[Nova Prime]] felt its pull through his [[Matrix of Leadership]], and so embarked with the crew of the original [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] to follow the sensation back to its source. When the Ark traced it to a cosmic anomaly within the [[Benzuli Expanse]], crewmember [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]] steered the vessel into the anomaly, transporting them to the mysterious dimension. {{storylink|Spotlight: Galvatron}} {{storylink|Dark Dawn: Dark Cybertron Chapter 1|Dark Dawn}} The crew were rendered undead upon entry, and Nova Prime came into possession of the Heart of Darkness, renaming himself "Nemesis Prime". {{storylink|Devastation issue 3|Devastation #3}}

[[File:SpotlightCyclonus DeadUniversetransformers.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|The Boyzone reunion tour just got more interesting.]]
The Ark crew remained trapped in the Dead Universe for millions of years until a permanent gateway was opened between the universes on the planet [[Gorlam Prime]], when the second of [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]]'s [[Regenesis]] ores struck the world and decayed an underground chamber, enabling a portal to form there. {{storylink|Homecoming (IDW)|Homecoming}} In time, they also learned to use the Benzuli Expanse anomaly to travel back and forth between the worlds, and with access back to their universe of origin now at their fingertips, Nemesis Prime initiated a plan to cause the "[[Expansion]]", merging the living and dead universes into one ordered whole that he would rule. Though not explicitly stated, this merge was almost certainly the bidding of the D-Void, which Prime was unaware he was following.

Prime's chief scientist [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] oversaw the facets of the Expansion from a staging base on Gorlam Prime. Devices known as "[[Nega-Core]]s" were installed on [[Corata-Vaz]], [[Rotan]], and the fourth moon of [[Bhul]], which would accelerate the steady growth of the Benzuli Expanse anomaly, causing the living universe to be subsumed into the dead. Fortunately, the Autobots were able to occupy the guardians assigned to protect the Nega-Cores long enough for the cores to be removed and dumped into the Dead Universe itself by a team protected from its death-inducing effects by [[Pretender]] shells. With the cores' detonation, the Benzuli Expanse anomaly collapsed, sealing off the Dead Universe. Simultaneously, Galvatron betrayed Nemesis Prime, slaying him and stealing the Heart of Darkness but was then cast into an energy reservoir by [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]]. {{storylink|Revelation (IDW)|Revelation}}

Saved from destruction by the power of the Heart of Darkness, Galvatron emerged from the reservoir years later and travelled to Gorlam Prime, where he discovered that the portal there had been reactivated. Learning that the entire population of the planet had recently been lured through the portal by a mysterious force, Galvatron entered it himself, returning to the Dead Universe, where he watched as the Gorlamians were consumed by the D-Void, the existence of which was revealed to him at last. Escaping its clutches, Galvatron returned to the living universe, destroyed the portal, and set about forming an army in preparation to defend against the D-Void's coming, believing that the Heart of Darkness had chosen him to stop it. {{storylink|The Transformers: Heart of Darkness|Heart of Darkness}}

Told by the Heart that the D-Void would be able to emerge through [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] since it was a dead world, Galvatron attempted to stop it by feeding the Heart to [[Vector Sigma]], the mega-computer at the planet's core. What he did not realize, however, was that he was enacting the D-Void's will, and that feeding the Heart to Vector Sigma would ''transform'' the planet into the portal that would allow it to fuse the living and death universes, consuming all life. Fortunately, Optimus Prime was able to open the Matrix and close the portal, sealing off the last known opening to the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Chaos (IDW)|Chaos}}

Galvatron and Nova Prime were reborn within the Dead Universe following their deaths in the living universe. After using [[Ore-14]] and [[Ore-2]] to create an undead [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]], [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]] and [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] used the space bridge at its heart to make contact with Galvatron and Nova Prime within the Dead Universe and plan their return to Cybertron. {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} Though establishing the link burned out the titan's space bridge, Shockwave simply captured [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] and used the space bridge within his body to open a portal for the pair to emerge from. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}}

At the same time, the destruction of Gorlam Prime at the hands of Jhiaxus created a one-way portal into the Dead Universe. [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]] led a team inside to investigate, only to find that the Universe was shrinking. {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} After [[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]] pushed Nova Prime back through the portal in Megatron's body, Nova confronted Orion Pax's team and demonstrated that the collapsing universe was giving him increasing control over its reality, {{storylink|No Exit: Dark Cybertron Chapter 6|No Exit}} before revealing that he had captured Kup and was trying to use his connection to the living universe to create a space bridge from the ancient Transformer's body. {{storylink|The Dead Are Not Enough: Dark Cybertron Chapter 7|The Dead Are Not Enough}}

Orion Pax destroyed Nova Prime, {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}} and as he and his team escaped with the aid of the Autobot scientist [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]], the Dead Universe finally collapsed and destroyed itself. {{storylink|...And the Damage Done: Dark Cybertron Finale|...And the Damage Done}}

===Ask Vector Prime===
The [[Violengiguar|Bio Ranger Iga]] of [[Primax 1086.0 Kappa]] pulled [[Galvatronus (CW)|Galvatronus]] from a Dead Universe to serve as the leader of the [[Thirteen Great Demon Generals]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/06/27}}

When asked if the Dead Universe had its own [[universal stream]] designation, [[Vector Prime]] explained that iterations of the Dead Universe were "pocket universes" of other realities, and as such did not warrant their own stream designations. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/11/16}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
[[File:EarthriseEpisode5-SkyLynxfloating.jpg|thumb|300px]]
Long ago, [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] used the [[Staff of Solus]] to banish [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] into the Dead Universe as punishment for trying to steal the Matrix of Leadership. Eventually, its infinite nothingness gave Sky Lynx enough time to reflect upon his mistakes and become more humble, now having the purpose of redeeming himself for his past behavior and escaping from his exile. Besides the bot, statues of [[The Fallen|Megatronus]], [[Alchemist Prime]], and [[Solus Prime]] were all that remained in the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}}

The ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'' and its crew accidentally entered the Dead Universe after their battle with the [[Decepticon]]s that resulted in the [[Nebulos|Nebulon]] Station's space bridge exploding. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 4}} Confused as to what their current location was, the [[Autobot]]s soon realized where they were upon seeing Sky Lynx. He then proceeded to teleport [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] to an empty area, where he taught Prime to let go of his self-blame and concentrate the power of the Matrix to escape the Dead Universe. Eventually, Prime managed to do so and opened a rift out of the realm. [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] noticed the rift, and decided to take the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' through it. Upon his arrival, Megatron encountered [[Galvatron (G1)|a mysterious guide]] who took him on a journey through his past and told him what he needed to do in order to kill Prime.

During the Autobots' attempt at going through the rift, Megatron tried to strike the ''Ark'' down by concentrating his rage and sending a [[Hate Plague|powerful red beam]] towards it, but Sky Lynx put himself between the beam and the ''Ark'', allowing the Autobots to escape before being disintegrated. Shortly after, the ''Nemesis'' followed them out of the Dead Universe. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 5}}

Upon exiting, the ships were rendered immobile due to processing a [[Earthrise episode 6#Transformers references|massive data upload]] received in the Dead Universe. Shortly after, the ''[[Fool's Fortune]]'' exited the Dead Universe, as it was covertly following the ''Ark''. {{storylink|Earthrise episode 6}}

On prehistoric Earth, [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] were having trouble repairing the ''Ark'' at first, until Ratchet mentioned that he didn't expect the ''Ark'' to survive another trip through the Dead Universe. Rhinox was quite familiar with the Dead Universe, and now that he knew what was causing the ''Ark'''s problems, he was easily able to repair the damage by purging the data upload from its systems, {{storylink|Kingdom episode 2}} although it retained one item: the schematics for a transformation into an immense robot mode, which it was already in the process of integrating and using to upgrade itself. {{storylink|Kingdom episode 5}}

When Optimus Prime found the Allspark, it was suffering from the same kind of data overload as the ''Ark'', including possessing information from the future which caused it to recognise Optimus as [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis]] at first. Its projection of [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] described having somehow passed through the Dead Universe on its way from Cybertron to Earth, even mentioning a "Dead Multiverse". Optimus Prime was able to use Rhinox's repair program on the Allspark to purge the data overload from its system. {{storylink|Kingdom episode 4}}

On their way back to Cybertron, the Autobots, Maximals, Decepticons and Predacons aboard the ''Ark'' found themselves in the Dead Universe once again, but they were pulled back to present-day Cybertron by the efforts of [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] and [[Nemesis Prime (G1)|Nemesis Prime]].

After Unicron's defeat, he brought Nemesis Prime and Galvatron back to him, telling them that their use of the Dead Universe to travel through time had given him ideas, and that he would "begin again".
{{storylink|Kingdom episode 6}}

==Notes==
* A monstrous other universe of darkness that wanted to kill the real universe? Also the enemy in ''NecroWar'', a cut-short comic [[Simon Furman]] wrote for [[Dreamwave Productions]].

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Dead Universe''' (デッドユニバース ''Deddo Yunibāsu'')
*''German:'' '''Totes Universum''' (Dead Universe)

[[Category:Dead Universe| ]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) legends]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) locations]]
[[Category:Named universes]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron Trilogy locations]]

Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity

2023-12-20T00:48:44Z

Thunderwave: /* Notes */

{{suite}}{{factions|autobot|autobotg2}}
[[File:FSRLFstorypage5 blaster vs soundwave.jpg|thumb|upright=1.95|These two just can't agree on the same music]]
In the Generation 1 cartoon continuity, '''Blaster''' is one happenin' dude! Looking for more information? Then keep your dial tuned to this station! Yow!

==''The Transformers'' cartoon==
{{voiceactor|[[Buster Jones]] (English), [[Keiichi Nanba]] (Japanese)|[[Chen Chun]] (Chinese), [[Leonardo Araujo]] (American Spanish), [[Thomas Rau]] (German), [[Werner Abrolat]] (German, "Auto-Bop"), [[Holger Schwiers]] (German, "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1–5"), [[Peter Musäus]] (German, "Forever Is a Long Time Coming"), [[Gernot Duda]] (German, "The Big Broadcast of 2006"), [[Reinhard Brock]] (German, "Call of the Primitives"), [[Willy Schäfer]] (German, ''The Movie'', ''Generation 2''), [[Christoph Jablonka]] (German, ''Generation 2'' "Kreemzeek!"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French), [[Henry Djanik]] (European French, "Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1" & "The Key to Vector Sigma"), [[Pierre Garin]] (European French, "Blaster Blues" & "Make Tracks"), [[Éric Etcheverry]] (European French, "Five Faces of Darkness" episodes), [[Serge Bourrier]] (European French, "Madman's Paradise"), [[Jean Claudio]] (European French, "Carnage in C-Minor"), [[Bruno Magne]] (European French, "Only Human"), [[Carlos Seidl]] (Portuguese), [[Orlando Drummond]] (Portuguese, "Make Tracks" & "Quest for Survival"), [[Francisco José]] (Portuguese, "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1"), [[Nelson Batista]] (Portuguese, "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5"), [[Júlio Chaves]] (Portuguese, "Forever Is a Long Time Coming"), [[Luiz Feier Motta]] (Portuguese, "The Movie" VHS dub), [[Gyula Szersén]] (Hungarian, "The Movie" 1st dub (some lines))}}

[[File:DinobotIsland nice and nifty.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb]]
Blaster was a fun-loving, hip and happening robot. Loud and energetic, he was happy to share his choice of rockin' tunes with anyone, whether they really wanted to hear them or not.

Blaster appeared out of nowhere one day during [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]]'s demonstration of the modifications he'd made to the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]. To aid him in his presentation, Wheeljack requested that Blaster play something "nice", and the communicator responded by transforming and queueing up some rock 'n' roll/big band fusion music that [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] then started playing with a finely-placed laser-breath blast to Blaster's buttons. While the other Autobots were less than appreciative of Blaster's musical choice, Grimlock danced to the music to demonstrate his new levels of finesse. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 1}}

Blaster was among the Autobots who were exiled from Earth as part of a villainous conspiracy between [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] and [[Shawn Berger]]. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 1}} Everything turned out okay in the end, though.

At a not-so-secret EJK testing facility for the new [[Ultra Plane]], Blaster was sitting in the back of [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]]'s [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]] and didn't seem to notice the fact that [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] was sitting right next to him—at least until the Decepticon tape deck launched [[Ravage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ravage]], whom Blaster quickly transformed to grab. The cat turned to attack the Autobot while his master escaped to report to Megatron. Blaster continued to tussle until Ironhide transformed into [[robot mode]] and threw them both out of his caboose. After being initially distracted by the Ultraplane's destruction, the Autobots returned to EJK's lab to confront the Decepticons. Blaster greatly appreciated [[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]]'s taste in music to confound the hapless villains. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1}}

[[File:BlasterBlues blaster altmode.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Boom boom box]]
While attending a concert with [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike]] and [[Carly]], Blaster decided to share the show with the other Autobots by flooding their communications channels with the music, though only [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] and Jazz seemed to appreciate it. Unfortunately, his broadcast also disrupted an emergency communique from the [[Haley Observatory]], meaning the Autobots were unable to respond and stop the Decepticons stealing the [[Voltronic Galaxer]]. Searching for the Decepticons, Blaster and Cosmos were captured and brought to the villains' [[Decepticon lunar dome base|moonbase]], where Blaster was welded into place to be used as a trans-scrambler for Megatron's scheme to use the Voltronic Galaxer to ransom energy from the Earth by disrupting the planet's communications. Blaster tipped the Autobots off to his location by broadcasting his music over the system, and once the Decepticons were thwarted, Blaster was assigned to the abandoned moonbase with Cosmos, but quickly got into trouble with Prime again for his music. {{storylink|Blaster Blues}}

[[File:QuestforSurvival bee carries blaster.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Damn big tape deck.]]
Later, Blaster and [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]] helped the [[New York City|New York]] police crack a car theft ring by posing as an attractive target for punks to steal. After Blaster teamed up with car thief [[Raoul]], they learned that Megatron was behind the criminal operation, stealing cars to rebuild them into transforming drones. Blaster defended the Washington Bridge from the Decepticon drones alongside the other Autobots, but they were nearly overwhelmed by sheer numbers. After [[Ratchet (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ratchet]] realized the cars were remote-controlled, Blaster jammed the frequency, allowing the Autobots to attack and defeat the Decepticons. {{storylink|Make Tracks}}

Blaster proved pivotal in saving Cosmos and some [[robotic insecticide]] from the [[Morphobot]]s, when, with no options left, he randomly tried exposing the alien plants to a blast of music, that caused them to recoil away from the Autobots. {{storylink|Quest for Survival}} Soon afterward, the Autobots were attacked by the malevolent [[Kremzeek]], an energy life form created by Megatron. [[File:Kremzeek blaster littlekrem.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Hey, you're not one of my cassettes...]] Blaster and a small number of other Autobots were the only ones to stay functional long enough to be sprayed with an insulating foam that protected them from the creature's attacks. The Autobot team chased it to [[Japan]], where it wreaked havoc with the massive electronics industry there. Managing to trap Kremzeek inside his chest compartment, Blaster thought he could short the electrical imp out with his own energy, but this only made the situation worse, as Kremzeek absorbed all the juice Blaster pumped into it and split into dozens of copies of itself. One of the copies managed to slip inside Blaster, and after the other Kremzeeks were seemingly destroyed, it jumped out of his chest and the pursuit began again. {{storylink|Kremzeek!}}

Blaster was watching "[[As the Kitchen Sinks]]" with his Auto-buddies when Prime informed them that Tracks and [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] were late returning from their supply run. Suspecting foul play, the Autobots took off to search for their missing comrades. While on the search, Blaster was forcibly transformed by a Creamy Cream billboard then carted away by the big game hunter [[Chumley|Lord Chumley]] and his butler [[Dinsmore]] as bait to lure [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] into a hunt. Chumley apparently couldn't think of a suitably dastardly device in which to store Blaster, though, as he was totally absent from Chumley's prisoner showcase later on. {{storylink|Prime Target (episode)|Prime Target}}

{{bigquote|I've been waiting a long time for this, you poor excuse for a sound system!|Blaster confronting [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]]|"[[Auto-Bop]]"}}
[[File:AutoBop blaster speakers.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|He can sure bring the house down, baby!]]
Tracks and Blaster were reunited with Raoul when they saved their human friend and his [[Bop Crew]] from a bunch of hoodlums in the employ of the [[Dancitron]] nightclub. The pair investigated the club, but Blaster did not share Tracks's suspicion that something unsavoury was going on inside its walls, enjoying the atmosphere and dancing with the human clubbers. After saving Raoul again when a mind-controlled train driver sent the train Raoul was in hurtling out of control, Blaster was forced to re-evaluate his opinion, and used with [[Teletraan I]] to deduce that the club was controlling its patrons with hypnotic signals. Thinking he could counter them his own sonic powers, Blaster returned to the club, where he discovered the culprit was his Decepticon counterpart Soundwave, who he engaged in a fierce sonic duel. Soundwave proved the more powerful of the two, but Blaster won the day by using Dancitron's own sound system to boost his powers. Unfortunately, he was soon pulled into service as the Bop Crew's replacement sound system, forcing him to endure blaring loud breakdancing music for at least three days. {{storylink|Auto-Bop}}

[[File:KtVspt2 blaster sonics.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Blaster joined in Optimus Prime in travelling to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to stop Megatron from using [[Vector Sigma]] to bring his new [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] to life. They failed thanks to a cadre of [[Centurion droid]]s Megatron sent to delay them, {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} so as a counter-measure, Blaster and the other Autobots created the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] from five Cybertronian shuttles as Earth vehicles. With the [[Key to Vector Sigma]] in Megatron's grasp, [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] was forced to sacrifice himself to activate Vector Sigma and bring the Aerialbots to life, a decision Blaster loudly, if vainly, opposed. Returning to Earth to confront the Stunticons, Blaster impressively used his sound system to generate a miniature earthquake using sonic vibrations, but [[Wildrider (G1)|Wildrider]] just sailed over the cracks and smashed into Blaster's face. On a second encounter, Blaster used his sonics to collapse a tree into [[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]]'s path, but the Stunticon just used it as a ramp while Wildrider casually drove by and ran Blaster over. Ouch. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

[[File:TFtM BlasterRoundhouseKick.jpg|left|thumb|Everybody was kung-fu fighting, those cats were fast as lightning...]]
Blaster and Cosmos were sent on an inter-galactic shopping trip to pick up more [[Ingredient X]] for [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]]'s protective chemical spray, [[Corrostop]], only to find there was none left in the entire universe. {{storylink|Cosmic Rust (episode)|Cosmic Rust}} Soon after, when the Stunticons returned performing a series of heists for Megatron, Blaster joined Prime and [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] in hunting down [[Motormaster (G1)|Motormaster]]. He didn't do much, but he did get to witness the most awesome game of chicken ever, when Prime totalled Motormaster. {{storylink|Masquerade}}

In the year [[2005]], Blaster was assigned to the communications hub at [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]] on Earth. When the fortress was [[Battle of Autobot City|attacked]] by the Decepticons, Blaster used the advantageous height of his broadcast tower to fire upon the enemy before being urged by Perceptor to send a distress signal to Optimus Prime's forces on [[Moonbase One]]. His transmission equipment was destroyed by Soundwave's cassettes, who proceeded to break into the tower and attack the pair, Blaster countered with his own cassette army, and his efforts were soon revealed to have succeeded when Optimus Prime arrived with reinforcements to rout the Decepticons. After the Decepticons retreated, Blaster was helping to rebuild the city when he received a faint signal from Jazz and [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cliffjumper]] on Moonbase One, which was being munched by a [[Unicron|ginormous, weird-looking planet]]. Several of the Autobots soon departed to investigate this new threat, but Blaster remained behind on Earth. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}
{{note|Blaster’s involvement in these events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the comic mini-series "[[Transformers: The Animated Movie]]" and the storybook "[[Transformers the Movie (Ladybird adaptation)|Transformers the Movie]]."}}

[[File:FFOD1 blaster and outback.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Perhaps it was this dedication to Earth that saw Blaster appointed [[City Commander]] once Autobot City was successfully rebuilt later in 2005. Believing the Decepticons responsible for an attack on the [[Galactic Olympics]] which saw [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] and Spike kidnapped, Blaster and [[Outback (G1)|Outback]] were sent to the North African nation of [[Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya|Carbombya]] on the suspicion that the militant leader [[Abdul Fakkadi (G1)|Abdul Fakkadi]] was harbouring Decepticon fugitives that they could interrogate for information. Despite Fakkadi's assurances that there were no Decepticons on his soil, Outback managed to psyche out [[Dirge (G1)|Dirge]] and [[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]], whose escape was also quickly put down by the Australian-accented Autobot. Blaster then threatened the two [[conehead]]s to spill the beans, for Outback was trigger-happy. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}}

[[File:FFOD5 blaster command console.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]
While [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] followed up on the info they obtained, Blaster returned to Autobot City to keep tabs on the impending delivery of the city's new [[Transformation cog|transforming cog]], replacing the original that was destroyed in the great battle. Unfortunately, [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]] and [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]]'s delivery shuttle was destroyed by [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]], forcing Blaster to call upon Commander [[Marissa Faireborn]] of the [[Earth Defense Command]] for help. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} Faireborn and the Autobot delivery team were stranded when [[Io]]'s native [[lightpole]]s destroyed the EDC ship, so the long-suffering Blaster sent rescue in the form of the magnificent [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], whom Blaster remarked was difficult to describe. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} After Sky Lynx effortlessly saved their friends and delivered the cog to Earth, [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] installed the cog, allowing the giant Autobot [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], who formed part of the city, to transform to [[robot mode]]. Once the Autobot city defeated the Decepticon giant [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]], Blaster declared that Metroplex was his kind of town. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

In [[2006]], Blaster was briefly seen aboard the Autobot flagship when Optimus Prime returned from the dead to rally the troops against the [[Quintesson]]s. He fled the ship with the rest of the crew before Prime's suicidal assault on the Quintessons' central planet. {{storylink|Dark Awakening (episode)|Dark Awakening}}

[[File:ForeverisaLongTimeComing blaster ejects rewind.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Pizza delivery!]]
After Perceptor uncovered a source of chronal energy emanating from an asteroid belt, Blaster accompanied him on a survey mission, along with his cassettes [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]] and [[Ramhorn (G1)|Ramhorn]]. Though prompted to radio for reinforcements when they were attacked by [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]] on approach, Blaster made short work of their opponents with the help of Blurr and [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]]. The source of the chronal energy proved to be a Quintesson [[Time Window]], through which Blaster and the other Autobots were accidentally chased by the tentacled aliens, catapulting them 11 million years back through time, to Cybertron's distant past. Immediately attacked by [[Dark Guardian]] robots, Blaster and his comrades were saved by the intervention of [[Beta (G1)|Beta]], [[second-in-command]] of the slave rebellion against the Quintessons. With the rebels' leader [[Alpha Trion (G1)|A-3]] missing, Blaster and the Autobots stepped into his place to lead the rebellion, but the sheer number of Dark Guardians seemed insurmountable. Just as the Autobots were about to be overwhelmed, A-3 returned through the time window and turned his [[Coder Remote]] device against the Guardians, shutting them down. With the natural flow of history ensured, Blaster and the future Autobots took the window back to the present. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

[[File:Madman's Paradise Golden One Blaster.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|He's a riot on karaoke night.]]
When [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] and Wheelie were taken hostage by the Decepticons, Blaster fielded the ransom call for Spike and Ultra Magnus, but his skill as a communication officer failed him and he lost [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]]'s signal at a critical point in the monologing. {{storylink|Surprise Party}} Daniel was saved, but it wasn't long before he got into more trouble, disappearing with Grimlock during a reception on Cybertron. Blaster had [[Steeljaw (G1)|Steeljaw]] track the boy's scent, following it to an ancient Quintesson chamber beneath Cybertron's surface, where he then called upon Rewind to translate the ancient text on the walls. Discovering that the chamber was a method of banishing criminals to other dimensions, Blaster and the others reactivated the portal and followed them to the sorcerous world of [[Menonia]]. There, they got involved in a local skirmish against [[Mara-Al-Utha]], the banished Quintesson who had usurped power from the benevolent [[Golden One]]. In order to defeat the Quintesson, Blaster lent his sound system to the Golden One, amplifying his voice as he invoked the proper counter-spells. {{storylink|Madman's Paradise}}

[[File:GhostintheMachine blaster startled.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|He has no reflection! He's a vampire!]]
When Kup visited Autobot City for a security inspection, Blaster passed with flying colors and nearly succeeded in convincing Kup how seriously they took the job... until he happened to lean against a control panel and set off some 20 year old tunes on the sound speakers. Things turned serious immediately thereafter, though, as Metroplex was invaded by [[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]] and the ghost of [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]], who stole Metroplex's eyes and set off a bomb in his brain. {{storylink|Ghost in the Machine (G1)|Ghost in the Machine}}

[[File:Blaster C Minor.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|Who runs Bartertown?]]
While helping Ultra Magnus and the other Autobots fight the Decepticons on a renegade comet, Blaster experienced first-hand the power of the [[harmony]], a musical weapon from the nearby planet of [[Eurythma]], which blew the comet to bits. With Galvatron now seeking to acquire the harmony's power, Blaster joined Ultra Magnus and [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] in travelling to Eurythma to stop him. Discovering that the entire planet's civilization was based on music, Blaster immediately became enamored with the world, and served as translator for the Eurythman's lyrical language. The hunt for the harmony turned into a bizarre scavenger hunt, as Blaster and Soundwave attempted to recover the three thirds of the harmony produced by [[Basso Profundo]], [[Zebop Skandana]] and [[Allegra]]. The Decepticons assembled the harmony first, and Soundwave turned its united power against the Autobots, but Blaster stopped him by erasing his recording of it. {{storylink|Carnage in C-Minor}}

[[File:QuintessonJournal blaster vines.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Blaster joined Kup, Ultra Magnus and Rodimus Prime aboard Omega Supreme to check out some strange reports from the [[Junkion (planet)|planet of Junk]], which turned out to be a full-fledged war between half the galaxy raging over the [[Junkion (species)|Junkions]]' heads. Blaster's receivers pinpointed the source of the sudden intergalactic aggression: a hypnotic signal being broadcast somehow from the Junkions' TV antenna, which he was able to counteract by broadcasting his own counter-frequency. In the course of the chaos, a [[Quintesson Journal]] was lost in space, {{storylink|The Big Broadcast of 2006 (episode)|The Big Broadcast of 2006}} eventually coming to rest on an uninhabited planet. The journal's signal was detected by the Perceptor some time later, who contacted Blaster, Outback, Steeljaw, Ramhorn and Sky Lynx while they were returning from another mission and had them investigate. Navigating the planet's dangers, they recovered the journal, finding that it detailed centuries of manipulating the planets [[Xetaxxis]] and [[Lanarq]] into ever-escalating warfare. Despite Quintesson and Decepticon interference, Blaster and his comrades managed to bring the journal to the attention of the warring aliens, ending their conflicts... at least for the moment. {{storylink|The Quintesson Journal}}

[[File:CallofthePrimitives blaster auto eject.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Blaster, NOW you choose the time for this?]]
Blaster was manning Autobot City when [[Victor Drath]]'s men drove the empty shells of Ultra Magnus, Arcee, Springer and Rodimus Prime towards the city for a Trojan horse ploy. When the ''real'' Magnus and Springer hijacked the latter's helicopter mode and started taking potshots at the city, however, Blaster quickly caught on and transformed the city into battle station mode, cutting off their entry. {{storylink|Only Human}} Later, when Sky Lynx and Cosmos crashed on [[Power Platform Alpha]], Blaster raced out to help with his fellow Autobots. Upon trying to radio for assistance, however, Blaster found himself unable to properly transmit any signals. The Autobots eventually uncovered [[anti-electron]] sabotage in the new power generator, and cleaned out the disruptive influence. {{storylink|Grimlock's New Brain}} Later still, Blaster began self-ejecting when the [[Oracle (G1)|Oracle]]'s transmission convinced Ramhorn and Steeljaw to force their way out of Blaster's chest to answer the call of the [[Primitive]]s. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}

Although he wasn't on the initial casualty list, Blaster was revived alongside the Autobots who fell before the crazed [[Superion (G1)|Superion]], during the outbreak of the [[Hate Plague]]. He travelled with the resurrected Optimus Prime and the other survivors of the plague to planet [[Chaar]] to recover a heat-resistant alloy that would shield Prime from the plague's effect, but succumbed to the disease while battling infected Decepticons. He and all other sufferers were cured when Prime used the wisdom of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] to eradicate the plague. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}
{{-}}

==Japanese cartoon continuity==
===''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' story pages===
Blaster battled Soundwave in what seemed to be the foothills of the Alps, while Perceptor kept the Decepticon communicator's cassettes busy. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (story page)#Part 5|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers story page #5}}

===Scramble City===
[[File:ScrambleCity blaster ejects ramhorn.jpg|left|225px|thumb]]
In the late 1980s, as the Autobots neared the completion of their "Scramble City" project to construct a transforming battle fortress, Blaster and his new cassette troops were assigned the task of guarding the entrance to the subterranean cavern where the construction was taking place against incursion by Decepticon spies. When Ravage, [[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] and [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] came sniffing around, Blaster deployed Steeljaw and Ramhorn to take care of the former two, while he himself dealt with Ratbat. Unfortunately, the tiny Decepticon was able to avoid his blasts and returned fire, which forced Blaster to dodge away from the cavern opening, allowing Ratbat to swiftly fly inside. Although Blaster gave chase, he lost track of Ratbat, who escaped with all the data he could scan from Scramble City. {{storylink|Scramble City: Mobilization}}

===''Legends'' comic (1)===
In the 1980s, Blaster and the Autobots defended the Ark and Wheeljack's [[Transform Super Cog]] from a Decepticon attack. Blaster shielded the [[Jumpstarter]]s from an assault by [[Enemy (G1)|Enemy]] using his indestructible shogun cassette, [[Nightstalker]]. {{storylink|Slugslinger's Ambition}}

===''The Battle of the Star Gate''===
[[File:StargateBattles blaster.jpg|thumb]]
In the 1990s, Blaster was among the assembled forces of the Autobots who travelled into Earth orbit to save the human space station known as the ''[[Trigger]]'' from the Decepticons. When Starscream seized control of the station, he used its [[warp gate]] to bombard the Autobots with asteroids he teleported from across space, which Blaster helped blast to bits so they wouldn't rain down on Earth. The battle was ended when Megatron and Optimus Prime combined their powers to stop the treacherous Starscream, resulting in an explosion so powerful that Blaster and all the other Autobots were hurled into Earth's atmosphere, where they were badly damaged by re-entry and disappeared for some time. {{storylink|The Battle of the Star Gate}}
{{-}}

===''Asterisk Story''===
[[File:Asterisk Story BTA-03 page 5.jpg|225px|thumb|left|"My voice gives me super strength!"]]
In the early 21st century, Blaster's love of human culture made him a logical choice for participation the [[Interplanetary Personnel Exchange Program]], an initiative designed to promote goodwill and cooperation between humans and Transformers that saw one member of each race partnered with another. Blaster was paired up with TV Announcer [[Lumina Hoshi]], and was reconfigured with a new Toyota Scion [[alternate mode]], prompting him to take on the new name "Broadblast".

While covering an auto show where Broadblast was operating undercover, Lumina Hoshi was unfortunately present when a large section of lighting broke free from the ceiling and came hurtling down upon a crowd of people. Luckily, Broadblast was able to transform in time and catch the lights before they could squash everyone. Broadblast was then left to nervously explain his presence to the onlookers as Lumina apologized for the technical difficulties to her viewers. {{storylink|The World's First Disaster Relief Car!?}}
{{-}}

===''15 Go! Go!''===
[[File:TGGBlaster.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"Don't be cryin'—here's a lion!"]]
Blaster was present when Optimus Prime made the discovery that numerous Autobot files held within [[Teletraan I]]'s databanks had been lost. {{storylink|Information Administration Teletraan 15 Go! Go! Volume 1}}

While travelling through time and space to gather up information to replace data lost when Teletraan I was damaged, the human computer [[Teletraan 15]] was damaged by Galvatron. While recuperating from her injuries (presumably back in her home year of 2005), she was watched over by Blaster in his boombox mode, who grew determined to cheer up the perpetually downcast girl. Telling her that "the song in her heart sounded lonely" and that she deserved better, Blaster transformed to [[robot mode]] to listen to her problems, and advised her to not to worry, and to focus on doing what she loved best. Likening human beings to individual notes who become music when they work together, Blaster advocated listening to music when depressed, and gave Teletraan 15 a cassette. The perked-up 15 thanked him and he departed... but she soon discovered that, despite his best intentions, the tape was full of ''really'' depressing music. {{storylink|Blaster Volume}} It also turned out to be Steeljaw! {{storylink|Steeljaw Volume}}

===''Kiss Players''===
While continuing to build his cassette army into a force that could rival Soundwave's, Blaster hand-picked the Autobot songstress [[Rosanna (KP)|Rosanna]] to join his team, feeling that she was the only [[Autobot]] who properly understood his love of music. {{storylink|Rosanna (KP)|Rosanna's bio}} He was also so happy to add the avian [[Sundor]] to his cassette ranks, finally giving his forces some air support, that he didn't suspect Sundor was actually an undercover Decepticon. {{storylink|Sundor|Sundor's bio}}

In [[2007]], when the Autobots were able to return to Earth after being forced to withdraw when Transformer/human relations had been heavily damaged the previous year, Ultra Magnus hit upon the idea of a joint Transformer/human singing group to help improve public relations. Blaster was assigned the role of producer for this group, the "[[Kiss Players (singing group)|Kiss Players]]", of which Rosanna became a founding member. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 39|Kiss Players #39}}
{{--}}

===''The Headmasters'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Keiichi Nanba]] (Japanese), [[Simon Broad]] (English, Omni Productions dub)| [[Roberto Alexander]] (American Spanish)}}
[[File:Hm blaster1.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|left|OOH YEAH MACHO MACHINE WITH THE ELBOW DROP OFF THE TOP ROPE! SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM! MISS ELIZABETH!!]]
Some time before the Transformers' war left Cybertron, Blaster briefly engaged the Decepticons with his comrades.

In [[2011]], Blaster and his Mini-Cassettes were on Earth under Ultra Magnus's command when the Decepticons attacked Cybertron. While making their way to the [[space bridge]] to join their comrades, Blaster and Ultra Magnus were attacked by the new Decepticon ninja consultant, [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]] and were unable to help in the battle on their homeworld. {{storylink|Four Warriors Come out of the Sky}} Fortunately, the arrival of the Autobot [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] helped shift the fight in the Autobots' favor, allowing Blaster and a group of other high-rankers to convene at the Autobots' secondary command post on the planet [[Athenia]] to discuss the situation. Realizing the Decepticons had been able to invade the planet thanks to the destabilization of Vector Sigma, the Autobots realized that in order to bring the computer back under control, they would have to locate the missing [[Matrix of Leadership]], hidden somewhere on Earth by Optimus Prime. Before returning to Earth to outline their plan, Blaster gave the ill-tempered Wheelie a tape of music to relax him.

Upon the group's return to Autobot City, Blaster immediately detected [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] spying on their conversation. Sending Steeljaw to pursue the bat, Blaster found Soundwave lurking nearby, and a brief battle between the two old enemies ended with both combatants vowed to rid the universe of one another some day. The day came sooner than either expected, as Blaster joined [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] in searching for the Matrix in the [[Arctic]], and found Soundwave waiting for him. Blaster engaged his opposite number in battle to cover Hot Rod's retreat, with the clash quickly moving from a firefight to a physical brawl that saw Blaster rip off one of Soundwave's arms. [[File:HMep4 twincast.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Sometimes I have three buttons...]] After both combatants caved in each other's chests, it appeared Blaster had won when Soundwave's injuries consumed him and he ''exploded'', but Blaster quickly succumbed to his wounds as well, urging Hot Rod to find the Matrix with his last words. When the news of his death reached Athenia, Wheelie played the tape Blaster had given him to commemorate his passing, finding to be full of soft, beautiful violin music. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}}

Knowing the super-science of planet [[Master (planet)|Master]] could potentially be used to restore Blaster to life, Autobot Headmaster commander [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]] set about rebuilding the communications officer on his spaceship, the ''Maximus''. Unaware of the secret project, Blaster's cassettes grew increasingly despondent over the loss of their commander and became unable to perform their duties, so Rodimus Prime elected to reveal Blaster's impending resurrection, putting a spring back in their step. When Blaster's reconstruction as '''Twincast''' was complete, he was teleported from the ''Maximus'' to Athenia, reunited with his cassettes, and was then immediately charged with investigating the Decepticons' newest weapon, the [[Madmachine]]. Infiltrating Trypticon on Earth, Twincast learned that the Madmachine was being controlled remotely from [[Chaar]] by Soundwave, who had also been resurrected as "Soundblaster". Twincast single-handedly overpowered the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] to access the Decepticon space bridge, and made his way to Chaar, where he faced off with Soundblaster and destroyed the sonic controller he had been using to command the Madmachine, then escaped. {{storylink|The Great Cassette Operation}}

[[File:HMep11 twincast hardhead karaoke.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|...And sometimes I have five!]]
Later on, Twincast reported to Rodimus Prime that the Decepticons were gathering on Earth, in preparation for a raid on Cybertron that tragically led to the planet's destruction. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 1}} Soon after, he attended a party on Athena to commemorate the launch of the [[Sol 1]] satellite, where he was badgered into serving as a karaoke machine for [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]]. The Sol 1 was stolen by the Decepticons to power a mysterious plot, {{storylink|The Shadow Emperor, Scorponok}} so Twincast was charged with finding out what the villains were up to. He sent Ramhorn and Steeljaw to Chaar on a reconnaissance mission, and they returned with information on Scorponok's scheme to harness [[plasma energy]], like that which was released by Cybertron's destruction. {{storylink|The Dormant Volcano Mysteriously Erupts}} Soon after, Twincast followed Sixshot to Chaar over the space bridge, and witnessed the activation of Scorponok's MegaZarak [[transtector]]. {{storylink|Explosion on Mars!! MegaZarak Appears}}

[[File:HMep22 twincast ejects.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Presumably because of his role as a communications officer, Twincast was aware of [[Punch (G1)|Punch]]'s undercover duties with the Decepticons as Counterpunch. After the Headmasters clashed with Scorponok near Chaar, he alerted Fortress that Punch had arrived to make his latest report. {{storylink|Return of the Immortal Emperor}} Later, Twincast learned that the Decepticons planned to raid the energy supplies Ultra Magnus was sending to the destitute planet [[Sandra (planet)|Sandra]]. His warning only arrived a few short moments before the Decepticons did. {{storylink|SOS from Planet Sandra}}

When Fortress and the Headmasters pursued the Decepticons out into space, Twincast joined them on the expedition. {{storylink|Fight to the Death on Planet Hive!!}} He was with the Headmasters when they investigated an SOS call from the planet [[Daros]]. {{storylink|Find MegaZarak's Weak Spot!!}} On [[Paradise]], Twincast used his Mini-Cassettes to scout the countryside and locate the Decepticons. {{storylink|Head Formation of Friendship}} He was also active when the Autobots came to the [[Pirate Planet]], watching for Decepticon activity. His scouting patrol came by a sealed pyramid in time to pull [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] to safety when Galvatron arrived looking for energy. {{storylink|Mystery of the Space Pirate Ship}}

[[File:HMep25 twincast and steeljaw.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4]]
After the Autobots returned to Earth, Twincast helped investigate the sudden flurry of Decepticon attacks. He released his collection of Mini-Cassettes to seek out information, and personally accompanied Steeljaw on an investigation to an Autobot outpost in Alaska. Upon arriving, they discovered Scorponok had wiped out the outpost. Twincast and Steeljaw were spotted by Sixshot, who opened fire on them. Twincast demanded Steeljaw return to Autobot City with the information they had uncovered, while he stayed behind to cover the retreat. Steeljaw reluctantly left his commander to his fate, and Twincast was ultimately blasted into a ravine by Sixshot's winged wolf mode. Steeljaw eventually returned with reinforcements, and Twincast was taken in for repairs. {{storylink|The Emperor of Destruction Vanishes on an Iceberg}}

[[File:HMep35 cassettes deploy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Eject ALL the tapes!]]
Twincast reported to a series of caves where the Headmasters were searching for [[plasma energy]] bombs left behind by Scorponok and the Decepticons when they departed Earth. He joined the Headmasters aboard the Battleship Maximus as they tried to get the massively powerful explosives a safe distance away from Earth. When they came across a group of [[Targetmaster (technology)|six refugees]] fleeing the planet Master, Twincast used his interpretive skills to translate their strange language. {{storylink|Miraculous Warriors, Targetmasters (Part 1)}} On the planet Master, Twincast was among the Autobots when the kidnapped scientist, [[Jack (G1)|Jack]], suddenly returned to their midst. Prompted by the suspicious [[Pointblank]], Twincast scanned Jack and discovered the Decepticons had installed a time bomb inside him. {{storylink|Miraculous Warriors, Targetmasters (Part 2)}} Twincast was also among the Autobots debating whether [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]]'s life was worth the secret of the [[Master Sword]]. {{storylink|The Master Sword Is in Danger!!}}

Twincast joined the entire Autobot army in journeying to the North Pole. There they battled Scorponok and his minions to stop the [[crysmagnetal]] towers from destroying the planet Earth. Twincast saved Chromedome and [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] from [[Mindwipe (G1)|Mindwipe]]'s hypnotic spell by dumping his entire chest full of Mini-Cassettes on the evil Headmaster. The Death Towers created a field of energy that was threatening to tear the Earth apart At the request of Daniel and Wheelie all the Autobots assembled to assist the Autobot Headmasters, thus combined in "Final Formation", they provided Fortress with the energy he needed, and the Earth was saved. {{storylink|The Final Showdown on Earth (Part 2)}}

===''Masterpiece'' toy bios===
When one of his cassette subordinates, [[Flip Sides (G1)|Flip Sides]], came under suspicion of espionage, Twincast—unfortunately unaware that she genuinely ''was'' a Decepticon sleeper agent—vociferously defended her. Together, Flip Sides and Twincast went on the run from the Autobot bounty hunter [[Road Rage (G1)|Road Rage]]. {{storylink|Road Rage (G1)#Masterpiece|''Masterpiece'' Road Rage bio}}

===''Legends'' comic (2)===
Twincast and Flip Sides were eventually apprehended by Road Rage and taken back to Athenia for trial, but Twincast continued to protest Flip Sides's innocence. Sadly, even he could no longer deny the truth when Flip Sides revealed her submerged Decepticon personality. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 27|Bonus Edition Vol. 27}}

In [[2021]], Twincast and the rest of Fortress Maximus's soldiers were infected with tiny black holes known as "[[blackball]]s" following a battle with Scorponok. These blackballs caused their bodies to slowly shrink away into nothingness, forcing Twincast and others to have their heads removed and turned into Headmasters to save their lives. {{storylink|Headmaster Chapter Prologue}} In need of new bodies, the Autobots traveled to the [[Legends World]] and formed a partnership with [[Axalon Trading Company]] to build everyone [[transtector]]s. There, Twincast enjoyed singing karaoke with his friends and once helped Hardhead fight off a meteor. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 21|Bonus Edition Vol. 21}} When it turned out the Decepticons had also come looking for new bodies, Twincast helped defeat a narcoleptic [[Skullcruncher (G1)|Skullcruncher]] by broadcasting Hardhead's lullaby at him. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 22|Bonus Edition Vol. 22}}

When Twincast received his new Transtector—which was capable of [[size changing|shrinking]] down into a hand-held boombox—he decided to return to being "Blaster" again, and quit working for the Axalon Trading Company so he could go back to making music. He "released" his cassettes, giving them freedom to go and live their own lives, and dedicated himself to uniting the world through music, in hopes that he could one day bring the Autobots and Decepticons together again and see Flip Sides once more. Unfortunately, things didn't go well for him—Blaster soon wound up penniless, living on the streets and trying to sell his mix CDs to passersby. Just as he found himself wishing that his new Transtector could turn into somewhere for him to live, [[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]] came rampaging through the streets, transformed by the power of the [[Zodiac]] into a two-headed monster. Blaster leapt into action, snagging the Zodiac from around Scourge's neck; the ancient, enigmatic energy then flowed through Blaster himself, and granted his "wish," transforming his Transtector into a brand-new base mode! With the help of his friends, Blaster used this new form to defeat Scourge, and then to host a concert celebrating their victory... but it didn't help his CD sales any! {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 27|Bonus Edition Vol. 27}}

[[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] later visited Blaster to borrow the Zodiac for research purposes. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 33|Bonus Edition Vol. 33}} His stage, [[Blaster Blues (Legends)|Blaster Blues]], was then attacked by a crowd that had been brainwashed by Soundblaster's music. He cured them with his own tunes, but while he was distracted, Soundblaster stole the Zodiac and used it to create a Soundwave transtector for himself. To Blaster's surprise, however, Soundwave had no interest in fighting him if he wasn't a soldier and instead vowed to defeat him as a fellow musician. Soundwave's boss, [[Devil Z]], was none too pleased with his desertion and attacked him, but Blaster helped defeat the villain by teaming up with his rival and lending him the [[harmony]]. After the battle was over, he revealed that that piece of the harmony had been one-time-use only, earning Soundwave's scorn once more and fueling their rivalry. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 36|Bonus Edition Vol. 36}} Blaster was later [[scanning|scanned]] by [[Lio Convoy|Leo Prime]], who used the Autobot as a basis for his own Headmaster body. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 41|Bonus Edition Vol. 41}}

When the Legends World was placed under martial law by the [[Dimensional Patrol]], Blaster was among the Autobots who resisted and incapacitated their [[Black Convoy Mass Production Type Drone|drones]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Black Convoy 2)|Bonus Edition Black Convoy 2}} During Trypticon's attack on the city, Blaster attacked him with a barrage of ultrasound from his base, but the giant Decepticon was unaffected and stomped the base to pieces. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 43|Bonus Edition Vol. 43}} It was repaired and integrated into the rebuilt [[Akihabara|Neo Akihabara City]]. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Prologue}} He later witnessed [[Majin Zarak]]'s arrival in the Legends World, {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One}} and subsequently evacuated from the doomed dimension. On his return home, in the year [[2023]], Blaster aided in the [[Beastformer]]s' war with the [[Laser Beast]]s and got knocked around by the [[Red Phoenix]]. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 1}}

===Metrowars===
Blaster later went back to being Twincast in order to keep fighting the war. Twincast commanded [[Metroplex (G1)|Scramble City]] while it was under reconstruction after an attack from [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]]. When Metrotitan and the Decepticons attacked again, [[Pipes (G1)|Pipes]] pleaded with Twincast to have Metroplex transform, but an ongoing energy crisis made Twincast reluctant to use up so much. Nevertheless, Metroplex pressed the need and Twincast allowed his transformation. After the Decepticons retreated, Twincast received and showed a message from [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] about the discovery of [[Nucleon (substance)|Nucleon]]. {{Storylink|Metrowars}}

===''Legends'' comic (3)===
Once the Autobots discovered [[Nucleon (substance)|nucleon]], an energy that could power Transformers infinitely, Twincast held an impassioned speech calling for peace on the basis that was no need for fighting if they had infinite resources. As the war came to an end and the [[Cybertron Alliance]] was established, Twincast returned to being Blaster once more, adopted a nucleon-powered [[Action Master]] body, and was finally reunited with Flip Sides. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Metroplex)|Bonus Edition Metroplex}}

===''G-2'' story pages===
[[File:BlasterG2.jpg|thumb|There's so much we don't understand about this image.]]

After [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] forged the [[Cybertron Alliance]], Blaster was an active participant in the united faction, until the Autobots and Decepticons once again descended into conflict. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|G-2 Part 3}}

===''Legacy VS500 Collection Special Comic''===
Blaster was one of many spectators for the [[Speedia 500]] race on [[Velocitron]]. {{Storylink|Velocitron Speedia 500 Part 2}} Twincast would later be present with [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]] for the second week of the race. {{Storylink|Velocitron Speedia 500 Part 3}}

===''Legends'' comic (4)===
By [[2038]], the Cybertron Alliance had fallen apart after a friend of Megatron was killed by humans and [[Galvatron II]] assumed command of the Decepticons. Blaster had hope, however, for Megatron's timeline from the Legends World had finally caught up to his. While Blaster and the Headmasters returned from the Legends universe fifteen years prior, Mayor Megatron had only just gone and returned from New Akihibara City, emerging back into the G1 World with a renewed desire for peace. He hoped to restart the Cybertron Alliance in order to pool resources and recreate that lost dimension. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One}}

Although their efforts were temporarily waylaid by the attacks of [[Dark Nova]] and [[Violengiguar]], the Autobots and Decepticons eventually succeeded in recreating the Legends World. Peace reigned in the galaxy, as Optimus Prime and Megatron shook hands to reinstitute the Cybertron Alliance. Blaster and Flip Sides were on scene with Soundwave and [[Sundor]] to observe the historic meeting. Blaster also finally took off with his music career, apparently topping #1 on the charts. {{storylink|Transformers Legends Final Chapter "Epiloge"|Epiloge}}
{{--}}

==''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' comic==
[[File:FSRLF6 blaster tied up.jpg|thumb|left]]
Blaster was stationed at a secret base in Japan, connected to the primary Autobot HQ in America via the [[Autobot Road]]. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 4|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #4}}

Later, while vacationing on a utopian island, he and Perceptor were captured by the Constructicons. Blaster was eventually freed by [[Kenji]], Superion and several other Autobots. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 6|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #6}}
{{--}}

==Full Throttle Scramble Power!==
[[File:FullThrottle blaster blasts ravage.jpg|thumb]]
When [[Tōru]], [[Jenny (G1)|Jenny]], and [[Hound (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hound]] were captured while searching for the Decepticon [[Omega Wave Cannon]] device, Blaster came to their rescue, blowing several large holes in Ravage with his [[electro-scrambler]] gun. He then grappled with Soundwave until the entire Autobot army arrived with Metroplex to drive off the Decepticons. {{storylink|Full Throttle Scramble Power!}}
{{--}}

==''Mars Attacks: The Transformers''==
[[File:MarsAttacksTheTransformers Soundwave and Blaster.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Blaster took part in a battle that ended in the defeat of the Decepticons. When [[Martian]]s promptly invaded and trapped both factions in a force field, the Autobots and Decepticons entered into an alliance. [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] came up with a plan involving hooking [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] and Blaster together, using their combined power to take down the force field. The alliance continued to last just long enough for them to see off the Martians. {{storylink|Mars Attacks: The Transformers}}
{{--}}

==Ask Vector Prime==
In a universe where [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] and [[Gong (GoBots)|Gong]] had thrown [[GoBot]]s into the [[Unicron War]], Blaster was manning Autobot City's communication center when Perceptor alerted him to [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]]'s [[Renegade]] assault. Blaster radioed Prime for reinforcements, then wound up grappling with [[Re-Volt]], [[Chaos (GoBots)|Chaos]], and [[Traitor (GoBots)|Traitor]], who had managed to breach Autobot City from above. Blaster countered their attack by deploying four of his own cassettes, and with the odds evened he and Perceptor managed to defeat the three Renegades.

Reality bounced around a few times before settling on a new configuration where ''our'' Blaster was replaced with [[Blaster (GoBots)|a ''different'' Blaster]] because the universe is funny like that. {{storylink|Echoes and Fragments}}

==''Deviations''==
When Hot Rod sacrificed himself to save Unicron, Blaster attended Optimus’s speech commemorating the end of the Cybertronian wars. {{storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

==Notes==
* As part of his hip and happening personality in the Generation 1 cartoon, Blaster's speech patterns were modeled on those of a radio DJ, a rhythmic pattern full of raps and rhymes. However, throughout season 2 of the cartoon, Blaster very rarely talked in rhyme, if at all. The rhyming dialogue didn't fully take over until ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' onwards, but even then, there were still entire sequences of season 3 where he talked regularly.
* Blaster's absence from the second half of ''The Transformers: The Movie'' is often a talking point among fans. It stems from a deleted plotline from early drafts of the movie, in which he would have led several other 1984 and '85 Autobots as a team of guerrilla fighters, defending Earth against the Decepticons while Ultra Magnus and the other Autobots went into space to stop Unicron from feeding on the energy of the planet. While this plot had been excised by the time of dialogue recording, the shooting script for the film does include another pair of deleted lines that explain Blaster's absence, as he and [[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]] tell Magnus's Autobots that they will cover them as they escape on the shuttles.
* The script for the 1986 episode "[[Fight or Flee (episode)|Fight or Flee]]" noted the [[Playback (G1)|Communication Autobot]] of [[Paradron]] as a "primative {{sic}} Blaster". The intended family resemblance didn't really make it on-screen, unfortunately. As it happens, however, decades later the Paradron communicator would be retconned in 2015 by [[Ask Vector Prime]] as an alternate version of the barely-seen Marvel character [[Playback (G1)|Playback]], who was described as a [[Autobot Mini-Cassette|cassette-former]]. This would come full circle in [[IDW Publishing]]'s 2021 ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (IDW)|Shattered Glass]]'' comic, where [[Playback (SG)|Playback]] is a member of evil Blaster's lineup of cassettes.
* The cartoon version of Blaster makes a Hasbro-sanctioned cameo in the 2022 film ''{{w|Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers (film)|Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers}}'', appearing as an audience member during Chip and Dale's high school talent show performance.

===Character model===
[[File:TV-Magazine-Soundblaster-Twincast.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRV7uVfCcCM "Try Blue – It's the New Red!"]]]
* Blaster's original [[character model]] is riddled with a few discrepancies:
# The first is the arms. His arms are drawn based on the toy reference's being left folded against the body like they are in his [[alternate mode]], leading to both the sticker details and the wrist slider slots on the forearms being on the sides of the arms, rather than the front. Additionally, the toy's wrists are on swivels, so one can easily replicate this with their toy and not lose the ability to hold the gun in a natural position.
# The second is his thighs. His thighs on the toy references were left extended, exposing the black-plastic sliders inside the legs, thus giving the model the iconic "shorts"-like divide between his upper thighs and lower legs.
# Lastly, the [[robot mode]] model breaks the row of buttons on his abdomen up into three buttons, while keeping the correct four in his alternate mode model. This is a product of the way his toy is made: it has three separate button chunks, but the center chunk is ''actually'' two buttons sculpted together. The reason the robot mode ended up with three buttons instead of four is likely due to a combination of the angle that the robot mode toy references were shot on, and the light source used in the photos. Most toy reference photos the artists were given from Hasbro were shot at a ¾ angle. They were also ''usually'' given one photo reference for the back and one for the front, meaning that wherever the light source was coming from in that one robot mode photo, likely never captured the molded groove that divides the two center buttons, whereas the alternate mode photo did.
* After Blaster and [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] were rebuilt into Twincast and Soundblaster respectively in ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|The Headmasters]]'' cartoon, their animation models weren't a simple recoloring as one might assume; to match the [[retool]]ing found on the respective toys released in [[1987]] that allowed for two cassettes to be stored, their animation models were slightly modified to include bigger chest doors that protruded from their bodies.

[[Category:Action Masters]]
[[Category:Binaltech Asterisk characters]]
[[Category:Communications specialists]]
[[Category:G-2 Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Headmasters]]
[[Category:Kiss Players Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]

User:Thunderwave

2023-12-13T19:23:48Z

Thunderwave:

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2023-11-01T19:03:30Z

Thunderwave: /* Up button */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. For less wide-reaching subjects, either use articles' individual talk pages or [https://discord.gg/tfwiki our Discord server].

Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
 <div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
 <div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}} 

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== Site Logo revamp ==

Up until now, our rotating logo on the main page tends to have a batch of logos pointing to pages from the most recent franchises and series, plus a few from older franchises that we forgot or didn't bother to remove. I'd like to rework this system a bit to have a more even balance franchise-wise. I think we should have one character for every franchise that has had a cartoon or movie (including the JG1 shows), plus one from each of the major English-language comic runs (Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW1, and IDW2 at the bare minimum). This would be a good way to demonstrate the breadth of the franchise scope of the wiki, and help drive new readers towards legacy content. (Of course, we'd still have a few extra banners based on whatever is currently running for the "Hey, I know that guy!" factor. Would love to get some thoughts on this, and potentially character suggestions for each franchise. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 00:59, 18 December 2021 (EST)
:I think this is a great idea! Though, I'm unsure on which characters from each show would be good to use. Like, would we go most popular/memorable characters or just some really random left field obscurities like G1 Skids who appeared in only two episodes of ''The Transformers'', just to get some more eyes on character articles from franchises newer fans may not be fully aware of? Also, would Japanese-exclusive shows include ''Go!'', ''Q-Transformers'' and ''Robotmasters''? If so, maybe even an image from ''Portal'' (the Russian show) would be worthwhile too. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:47, 18 December 2021 (EST)
::Obscure/minor stuff risks just being the GO! Boxes again, and we already have those. For the big logo, best to go with majorish characters from majorish media. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 07:19, 18 December 2021 (EST)
:This sounds like a great idea. We could break it down like this:
G1 Seasons 1 and 2 - Optimus Prime,
TFTM/G1 Seasons 3 and 4 - Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime,
G1 Marvel - Ratchet,
Headmasters - Fort Max,
Masterforce - Minerva,
Victory - Star Saber,
Idk if we would do Zone or any of the Japanese G1 stories that came after,
Beast Wars - Megatron,
Beast Wars II - Lio Convoy,
Beast Wars Neo - Magmatron,
RID/Car Robots - Side Burn,
I've never read Dreamwave so I don't know a good character that represents it,
Unicron Trilogy - Hot Shot,
IDW could be broken into a few character reps because of how long it went on,
IDW Furman Era - IDW Bumblebee,
IDW Post Furman - IDW Galvatron,
IDW MTMTE/LL - Nautica,
IDW RID/OP - IDW Optimus Prime,
Animated - Bulkhead,
Movies - Bumblebee,
WFC Games - Bruticus,
Prime - Starscream,
RID15 - Strongarm,
Cyberverse - Windblade,
WFC Trilogy - G1 Megatron,
And then we can have a few slots open for characters from the latest shows/movies. This list would give new readers an idea on how big the franchise truly is and how diverse the characters are. [[User:Paladin Denn|Paladin Denn]] ([[User talk:Paladin Denn|talk]]) 18:03, 5 January 2022 (EST)
:Certainly if anyone's gonna represent CR/RiD'01, it's gonna be Sky-Byte, the breakout star of the show, and not Side Burn, the Autobot womanizer. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 18:26, 5 January 2022 (EST)
::Funilly enough I meant to put him there lol. [[User:Paladin Denn|Paladin Denn]] ([[User talk:Paladin Denn|talk]]) 20:43, 5 January 2022 (EST)
::Dreamwave, I'd pick War Within Grimlock. Certainly Shockwave should be part of 2005 IDW since he's responsible for the whole sha-bang.--[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] ([[User talk:MistaTee|talk]]) 18:40, 5 January 2022 (EST)

== Splitting Cloud characters ==

So now we have some sorta adequate translations, I'm being increasingly convinced that merging them just on the basis of AVP was a mistake and that the Cloud characters should be split out for simplicity and ease of explanation. Notably, the central conceit is far more similar to TransTech than G1—and more different to G1 than Cyberverse, for instance. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 02:44, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:I was against it then and I'm against it now. They're nothing like the TransTech; they are practically nigh identical to the G1 guys, there's a war going on in their universe, and the "central conceit" of them being multiversal guardians is more akin to Alternity than it is to TransTech, who for the majority of their fiction were at most passive observers. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 07:05, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::I am declining to weigh in personally until I finish first pass translations but please at least pretend to look over the translated material before repeating the same arguments. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 12:19, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:::I have looked over it. Nothing is convincing me that it's all that separate from G1 stuff. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 12:29, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::"War going on" describes most of Transformer fiction. What makes Cyberverse "not G1", but Cloud G1, other than convenience for us editors? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:02, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::: As far as I can tell, there is no basic divergence, aside from Grimlock's origins, from the Cloud characters to the G1 counterparts. I could point to a fair few examples on the side of Cyberverse that rank higher than that (Grimlock's presenations, the origins of the Quintessons and Sharkticons, Skywarp, Acid Storm, etc etc.) [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 17:23, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::::We can be here all day debating over character minutiae, but the point is that Cyberverse ultimately doesn't diverge that much from G1 in its general premise as opposed to Cloud. G1 is bloated enough as it is; it doesn't hurt to take out the one thing that doesn't really fit in and make it its own thing. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:29, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::::: Well that just comes right back to my question: what actually makes Cloud World's core conceit any different from G1 beyond the fact that they have technology that allows them dimensional travel? Because if it is just that, I simply do not believe that is enough to justify a split for characters who are almost all made to look like and have the same personality as the G1 characters. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 17:51, 28 December 2021 (EST)
I agree for the sake of wiki presentation. *Cloud* is more like *TransTech* than it is like *Alternity*. *Cloud* characters got to travel to both the G1 and MD worlds as equally separate destinations. TakaraTomy used the *Generations War for Cybertron* moulds as the *United* series, which is G1 and not Aligned by our classification. *Cloud* recycling unused *Generations Fall of Cybertron* toys in a non-Aligned setting strikes me as more evidence that we can allow *Cloud* to live on its own rather than as another G1 setting. And *Cloud* was chosen by e-HOBBY over the competing proposal *Prime Shattered Glass* which would also have been on separate wiki pages despite employing purely redeco mould choiceis. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:08, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:I'm not convinced by the idea that them saying "G1 World" is an indicator of separateness when there is also designations for "BW Spacetime" and "MF Spacetime." Brawn is depicted as practically identical in appearance to G1 Brawn before being upgraded. As for the Prime Shattered Glass choice, I think it's pretty obvious why that would be completely separate from this particular issue. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 16:25, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::The only reason Brawn is shown as the G1 body is if you take consideration that all Cloud members are drawn according to the latest toy or model available... he got no real toy before that, the only options were either G1 Sunbow, G1 toy or the tiny Universe 2.0 Legends. Now if you remove their appearance and focus on the story, Cloud is still more akin to Transtech than Alternity, Deadlock for example even got to visit the Legends World, a Aligned world (possibly the Adventure toyline) and the Ehobby spin-off dimension (now called Precursor World) -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 17:55, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:::Yes, I am aware of how Cloud repurposings work. Nothing prevents one G1 universe from visiting another. And aside from that, Japan has had barely any non-JG1 cartoon related G1 fiction; of course Cloud World, which isn't directly JG1 related, would be indicated as different; that doesn't mean that it's not able to be categorized as G1. If it were an American storyline, where we have always had multiple G1 storylines, I feel that this would not nearly be as much of a point of contention. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:05, 28 December 2021 (EST)
I'm in favor of splitting Cloud from G1. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 19:32, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:I haven't read any of the Cloud fiction myself, but I know that if our translation team collectively agrees on something based on the material available, then that's more than enough convincing for me to agree with them also. In other words, I agree with a split. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 19:52, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::I'd vastly prefer if we could get someone like McFeely to weigh in on this. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:56, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:::i'm in favour of the split. The cloud people have enough characteristics to distonguist them from theur jg1 counterpatts.--[[User:ZacAttack|ZacAttack]] ([[User talk:ZacAttack|talk]]) 20:14, 28 December 2021 (EST)
::::Alright, seriously, what characteristics are there actually to distinguish them from G1? Because nobody has been able to give me a concrete example so far. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 21:17, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:::::dinobot, heavy usage of aligned designs, hellwarp --[[User:ZacAttack|ZacAttack]] ([[User talk:ZacAttack|talk]]) 21:36, 28 December 2021 (EST)
Looks like Escargon is the only voice against the split thus far. Still, I suggest the discussion should remain open longer than usual, out of courtesy for people not checking the wiki as regularly given the holiday season. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 21:47, 28 December 2021 (EST)
:As the translations are still ongoing, I think the most we can suggest at this time is a note regarding its a classification as a Primax setting by AVP. As more information comes to light I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it was a decision made on shaky logic. Unlike the Alternity there doesn't seem to be any evidence of these guys being derived in-universe from G1 guys. And as fiction, it's about a bunch of super advanced parallel universe monitor guys who regularly travel to other universes. If it's literally just "the cast is mostly recolours of toys with G1 fiction" then maybe we need to start talking about listing the War for Cybertron games as G1 too. [[User:Star Spangled Sam|Star Spangled Sam]] ([[User talk:Star Spangled Sam|talk]]) 01:44, 29 December 2021 (EST)
::What exactly is super-advanced about them beyond SARA, who, as far as I can tell, is a gift from some being and not even their own creation? Because otherwise, they seem to be basic Transformers. Not a single person has been able to tell me that so far, and I'd be far more willing to listen if someone would just spell out what exactly makes them so distinct that means they can't be G1. It's not about in-universe stuff, because for all intents and purposes, the characters themselves are nigh-identical to the Generation 1 characters; you look at Cloud Megatron or Cloud Rodimus and it is obvious that, irregardless of whatever the fiction might say, they are being sold as new versions of the G1 characters. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 04:29, 29 December 2021 (EST)
:::By the same logic, then why not put the FOC and WFC games under the G1 banner since it heavly takes inspirations from it, same settings (war on cybertron, the resources are becoming low, escaping to another world), closest designs to G1.. hell they were more marketed towards G1 than the Movies and Prime in mind (let's face it.. that's what Hasbro always does).. but the further Hasbro tied them to Aligned and they became their own thing.. Cloud is about that, maybe marketed as G1 at first but they became their own thing at the end -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 13:20, 29 December 2021 (EST)
::::The WFC games are their own case that, despite what you say, were always clearly a part of Hasbro's ideas for the Aligned continuity, which is something that I'm not going to bother going into here. Nothing about Cloud registers to me as being somehow so separate that it requires us splitting off things into their own pages. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 13:24, 29 December 2021 (EST)
Bumping for more opinions. If there's no overall opposition to it by Friday or so, I'll start splitting. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:07, 4 January 2022 (EST)
:The Cloud fiction prominently features the Cloud characters interacting with their own G1 counterparts. If nothing else, it should be split on same basis as [[Galvatron II]]. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:50, 4 January 2022 (EST)
::We've seen that with other fiction. I'm not sure why it would justify them having their whole separate pages (Galvatron II is a unique case). If that's what it takes though to not go through some inane total split, though, then fine, whatever. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:03, 5 January 2022 (EST)
:If there is to be movement on this in the immediate future I suppose I should go ahead and weigh in. As the one doing the translation I broadly agree with Riptide. While I am unmoved by philosophical discussions on what constitutes "G1-ness" or "Transtech-ness," I believe it is important to return to our guiding principle of the end user experience. Given the already convoluted nature of the material as well as the cast's consistent interaction with both various Generation 1 continuities in general and their own incarnations in specific, I believe it will be in the best interests of intelligibility for the reader to split out Cloud from Generation 1. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:25, 5 January 2022 (EST)

We are not going to pretend that these are completely separate from the Generation 1 characters. Put up a suite or a "see [X] article for more information" because it is completely ridiculous to pretend that Cloud is it's own little continuity. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 09:38, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:I disagree. Cloud should be split off entirely. So let's have an official vote and resolve this. I say '''Split'''. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:28, 8 January 2022 (EST)
::The articles have already been split. You'll forgive me if I don't show confidence in the decision from people who blew me off when I pointed out their original reason for splitting was incorrect (that supposedly the Almanac had come out before Cloud was truly explained, but in fact it had come after almost all of it had been published). [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:35, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:::This discussion has been open for twelve days. An unofficial tally shows at least 7-to-1 in favor of splitting. No one else has openly agreed with your position. Given that, and that Saix announced days in advance he would start splitting if there was no further discussion, it wasn't unreasonable for him to begin. But maybe there's a different split of opinions on the Discord or wherever, so it's certainly appropriate to ask for an official vote. Beyond that...the decision is just not up to you alone. The point of democracy is for all voices to be heard, not to leave every voice feeling satisfied with the outcome. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 11:08, 8 January 2022 (EST)
::::I have no idea what's going on in the Discord server; I'm barred from it. I certainly hope there's not more discussion going on over there, because I was told that there would be a push to have these sorts of big discussions to be on the wiki. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 23:42, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:::With all due respect: You need to stop putting so much emphasis on the in-universe designation, which AVP itself pointed out was ultimately arbitrary. I understand that AVP and the Almanacs are important to you, but Jim is not infallible, and while I'm sure he had good reasons for calling it "Primax" that's ultimately just ''his opinion''. Cloud being "its own thing" isn't some essential property; it's a matter of how to organise the wiki in order to make the fiction clear. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:47, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:I also vote '''Split''' if only because of how better translations now has pointed out various past errors/assumptions/presumptions that needed correcting, and thus updating is needed so as to make things easier to categorize and organize here. Any wiki really worth their salt and wanting to do proper service to their respective franchises' fandoms would do the same. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 14:43, 8 January 2022 (EST)
::I ''still'' haven't got an answer for what makes Cloud so different that makes it ''need'' to be split. If there were a crossover between say, Marvel and Sunbow, nobody in their right mind we should completely separate, say, Huffer from Huffer. I'm willing to admit that I might just be missing something, but nothing in the stories themselves, as far as I can see, suggests it, beyond the aforementioned Cloud World classification, which for me is not enough of a justification. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 15:33, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:::Neither Marvel nor Sunbow consists primarily of crossovers with another G1 continuity. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:20, 8 January 2022 (EST)
::::If that's the main avenue of justification then frankly I don't think I'm ever going to agree with that line of reasoning, but I can clearly see I'm outvoted on this. I wish there would have been more people asked before the split was done, though, because I can see that this could very easily end up being another whole "retitling things to FSRLF" situation. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:00, 8 January 2022 (EST)
:::We functionally split out Marvel and Sunbow versions for a lot of characters anyway. We're at the point where we draw lines based on how easy/hard it is for the information to be conveyed, not whether it's G1 enough or not. We think Cloud, as its own fullblown storyline/premise, falls on the side of "it's easier to read and parse it if they get their own shebang" instead of burying them in overlong G1 articles. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:11, 8 January 2022 (EST)

I'm not gonna argue further on this because I recognize it's a losing battle, but I think that the line of thought of "this one bit of media shouldn't be kept in an article because it won't get out there otherwise" sets a bad precedent that could easily be misused in the future. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 23:39, 8 January 2022 (EST)

Should the Cloud toys also be removed from the G1 character's pages? [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 09:21, 17 February 2022 (EST)
:Yeah no, It vould be too convoluted, example look at the redirections [[Transformers_Cloud#Toys|there]]... where should each toy be redirected?? + the fiction regarding said toys has their own page now -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 10:58, 17 February 2022 (EST)
::...What on earth are you talking about? [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 11:16, 17 February 2022 (EST)
:::Srry I misread his question.. I thought he meant "added" not "removed" from the G1 pages...
:Not entirely certain what you're asking, but the eight toys in the Cloud toyline (plus Deadlock) have already been moved to the Cloud pages in conjunction with the fiction, as they solely represent Cloud characters. The remaining Cloud characters repurpose existing toys. The writeups for those toys remain on the original pages with duplicates on the repurpose pages, as is standard practice. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:54, 17 February 2022 (EST)
::I mean, for example, [[Blaster_(G1)/toys#Generations|G1 Blaster's toy page]] has FOC Blaster on it, due to FOC Blaster being repurposed as Cloud Blaster. Should that repurposing be removed from G1 Blaster's page, since Cloud Blaster isn't considered to be G1 Blaster anymore? [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 12:34, 17 February 2022 (EST)
:::I believe yeah, the splitting between G1 and Cloud was recent (done last month) so there's still leftover traces on the wiki, if you can take your time to remove them why not -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 16:44, 17 February 2022 (EST)
::::Ok, good. I just wanted to check I wasn't missing anything. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:13, 17 February 2022 (EST)
:::::Oh! Yes those should go, good eye! -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 10:52, 18 February 2022 (EST)

==Split Movie Character Toy lists?==
Just as what happened with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys]] and [[Megatron (G1)/toys]], I suggest we split certain Movie toy pages such as [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys]] as both pages have become excessively bloated. I suggest we separate them by having the original Bay film toylines (07, ROFT, DOTM, AOE, TLK, and any pre SS sub lines) have their own page and starting a new one that Contains SS, BB, and the upcoming ROTB toylines, alongside any future movie toylines until the new page itself becomes heavily bloated [[User:Paladin Denn|Paladin Denn]] ([[User talk:Paladin Denn|talk]]) 18:43, 5 January 2022 (EST)
:Sorry for being this late but given that ROTB toys are apparently coming this spring, I suggest you split like one part contains all 5 movies while the other starts with SS and BB until now -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 15:26, 22 January 2022 (EST)

== Multi-part comic stories ==

For old Marvel UK multi-part stories like [[Target: 2006]] or [[Time Wars]], we put the whole thing under a single article, but for modern-day ones like each storyline in [[Transformers (2019 comic)]] we have a separate article for each issue. Is there a good reason for the discrepancy, or are the old ones just an artefact of a time in the wiki's history that didn't follow our current standards? --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 09:36, 22 January 2022 (EST)
:The thing with that is that it's a result of how the UK comic was written; there'd be about 8 or so pages per issue, meaning that we'd have a lot of little articles that are easier just grouped together. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:16, 22 January 2022 (EST)
::Makes sense, although that's essentially what we have for [[The Transformers: Autocracy]] et al., which are also 8 pages per issue. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 15:38, 23 January 2022 (EST)
:::The difference with Autocracy lies mostly in that pretty much all of those issues have a beginning and end, and also have different titles. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 15:47, 23 January 2022 (EST)
::::Oh, I always thought our headings on the Marvel UK story pages ''were'' the issue titles. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 01:21, 24 January 2022 (EST)

== Composite characters and page transclusion ==

This is something I've had the idea about for a while, but I've finally had a look at how the markup for it works and have come up with a proposal. The pages for [[Greatshot]] and [[Sixshot (G1)]] contain an entirely duplicated section set around the ''Victory'' cartoon owing to a retcon that occurred in the much later Legends manga. This is not an ideal solution because, among other reasons, any edits to Greatshot's cartoon section necessitates making the same edit to Sixshot's section.

Over in my sandbox, I've whipped up the page [[User:TheLastGherkin/Greatshot-test]], containing only the events that happened to both Greatshot and the retconned Sixshot. By inserting <nowiki>{{:User:TheLastGherkin/Greatshot-test}}</nowiki> into the relevant parts of Greatshot and Sixshot's pages (also sandboxed [[User:TheLastGherkin/Greatshot|here]] and [[User:TheLastGherkin/Sixshot|here]]), the same information is automatically transcluded. And clicking "Edit" on, for example, the Legends manga section on Sixshot's page automatically redirects the user to editing that portion of Greatshot-test, thus updating all three pages at once.

If we go forward with this, I can see it being used for other characters in similar situations, like BWU [[Wolfang (Maximal)#Beast Wars: Uprising|Wolfang]], or Unite Warriors [[Roller (IDW)#Unite Warriors|Roller]], or putting the lion's share (pun intended) of [[Victory Leo]]'s fictional appearances back onto Victory Leo's page. With refinements, like say a <nowiki><noinclude></nowiki> explanation for what each subpage is for the layperson ("This page covers the events of the Japanese Generation 1 continuity, where Greatshot and Sixshot are the same individual...") and maybe a [[:Category:Transcluded pages]], I could see this really working, and it could probably be bent into shape for repurposed toys as well. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 12:48, 10 February 2022 (EST)
:If we cannot avoid this sort of duplicated information entirely, this does seem like a pretty ideal solve to mitigate the constant peril of copy editing flubs maintaining multiple copies of one write-up entails. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:56, 10 February 2022 (EST)
::Is there any way to get rid of the "This section is transcluded from another page. To edit it, please edit the transcluded page." notice? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:06, 10 February 2022 (EST)
:::There is! I just put that there manually while experimenting and also to make clear where the transcluded section is. In practice, since clicking "Edit" on a transcluded section takes you to the source page, a notice like that can be relegated to a commented-out note for editors who click to Edit the entire page (or a larger section). [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 16:16, 10 February 2022 (EST)
::::Oh, I thought it was automatic software stuff. Whoops, never mind. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:22, 10 February 2022 (EST)
::Also, this works for fiction, but I see it running into issues when it comes to toys. (Thinking of Sixshot/Greatshot, Sixshot always gets toys first with Greatshot as the retool later in the same line.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:14, 10 February 2022 (EST)
:I've made some tweaks to my sandboxes, including standardising the transcluded page. Are there any objections before I start implementing this (in fiction sections)? [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 07:10, 12 February 2022 (EST)
::I sense that there could be an issue in the future where, for whatever reason, these sorts of characters diverge back into separate ones, whether it be through alternate continuities or whatever. Also, in the case of Greatshot, I feel like at the very beginning of his entry, there has to be something different to set up the Sixshot retcon, and just having the same opening text doesn't do that. 08:57, 12 February 2022 (EST)
:::His toy bio that mentions Sixshot as a separate person could go there. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:21, 16 February 2022 (EST)
:This could also be applied to Primus and Vector Sigma for their 3H comics sections since they are one and the same in that continuity. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 19:26, 26 February 2022 (EST)

== What makes a franchise? Or, does "Precursor World" exist? ==

So, browsing around the wiki, as one does, and came across this: [[Precursor World continuity|Precursor World (franchise)]]

Now, I'm not as well-versed in the Legends + Selects comics, so maybe this is incorrect, but to the best of my understanding, the branding "Precursor World" doesn't exist — this story was told across Generations Selects and Legends, and no toy or story was ever released branded as "Precursor World". It doesn't seem like the name even existed until pretty recently.

This...isn't a franchise, right? It's a long-running story told across various medium, but it's not a franchise, and calling it such implies something that isn't true.

Particularly, the idea that there is a "toyline" seems a bit of a stretch. There are only three listed "official" toys, but none of them were released under the "Precursor World" branding (which near as I can tell does not exist) and the list of "repurposings" seems almost entirely just "this toy/characters showed up in this story" which doesn't seem like anything's been repurposed to me. The IDW comics used a bunch of existing/prior toys, but that doesn't create a toyline of that comic series.

Am I off base here? --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 12:16, 3 March 2022 (EST)
:Okay there's a lot to unpack here but to begin with every single one of those toys is being repurposed as a separate object/character in a separate setting a la, for example, [[Green Tender Convoy]] and the [[Matrix Buster|Red Matrix]]. Most of the unnamed crowdfillers are minimized to footnotes on existing articles to avoid generating a bazillion stubs. The closest analogue I can give you is the [[Transformers: Shattered Glass (toyline)|toyline]] for the original ''Timelines'' iteration of Shattered Glass. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 12:35, 3 March 2022 (EST)

::I'll grant that those indeed seem to be repurposings, but the vast majority of toys on this list merely link to the toy entry for the toy on the regular character's page. I don't think having a list of members of these groups is bad (it's good!) but I don't think this is a toyline. Again, crucially, Shattered Glass has a brand, with the official toys released under that brand, whereas precursor world does not. IDW repurposed WfC/FoC/aligned toys as G1 characters, but this didn't create a virtual toyline associated with that comic. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 12:46, 3 March 2022 (EST)

:::Arguably Shattered Glass toys weren't really released under their own brand either until the recent Hasbro Pulse stuff, until then the figures were all just released under the ''Timelines'' banner or whatever else Fun Pub used at the time - the idea of a singular "Shattered Glass toyline" was just as much of a constructed idea until like a year ago. I can't say "franchise" and "toyline" ''aren't'' slightly more non-literal labels than usual in this context, but I do think there's value in having the info collated like this, and I can't think of ''better'' labels that aren't something stupid like "(meta franchise)". [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:57, 3 March 2022 (EST)

::::To be honest, I'm inclined to agree re: Shattered Glass, and would not be opposed to restructuring the toyline page to delineate between the "Shatted Glass Collection" and "Shattered Glass toys released via Timelines" or something. Shattered Glass does, however, have a leg up on Precursor World given that every official SG toy was branded as "Shattered Glass" in some way, though perhaps not as a "franchise". The box set is called Shattered Glass, and every official toy was called "Shattered Glass". There's some nuance there, of course, as arguably those are part of the character's names ala "Prime Universe Bulkhead" is still a Legacy toy, not a Prime toy, but I'd be happy to have a debate around the best way to frame Shattered Glass stuff given those discrepancies. Allll that said, Shattered Glass is today a franchise, but there have been zero anythings released with Precursor World branding or labeling. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 13:06, 3 March 2022 (EST)

::I don't think the page should be removed or even severely modified, but I do think the terminology is flawed. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 16:02, 3 March 2022 (EST)
Precursor World is definitely not a "franchise" and should not have that label. The model to look at here is the [[Beast Wars: Uprising]] article, which gives an overview of the thing, lists it's stories and toys, but does not use the "franchise" label, and doesn't ''need'' to use it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:07, 3 March 2022 (EST)

Yeah, no, this is not a "franchise", and the page should not be labeled as such. It is a ''setting''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:04, 3 March 2022 (EST)

:I like the solution that AzimuthAcolyte gave on Discord: move "Precursor World (franchise)" to "Precursor World continuity" (with all uses of the word "franchise" changed to "continuity") and "Precursor World (toyline)" to "List of Precursor World toys". Simple and elegant. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 18:55, 3 March 2022 (EST)
::Seconded.[[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 19:00, 3 March 2022 (EST)
:::That seems reasonable to me. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:00, 3 March 2022 (EST)
::::I'm for that. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 19:04, 3 March 2022 (EST)
::That's fair. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:59, 3 March 2022 (EST)
::Works for me, somewhat obviously! If there are no major objections over the next day or two I'll get those moved over. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:48, 4 March 2022 (EST)
::Ohhh, That works -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 18:19, 4 March 2022 (EST)
Alrighty as it's been a day or so with no objections I am proceeding with the moves away from (franchise) and (toyline). --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 18:06, 5 March 2022 (EST)

== Episode Order ==
It's come to my attention that all cartoons have been listed in production order '''except''' Beast Wars, RID01, RB, and RBA. While I understand production order is not available for the latter two I suggest we change the first two for consistency's sake - Unless I'm wrong and they are ''not'' all in production order. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 13:48, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
:We're not touching Beast Wars. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:52, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
::Beast Wars and RiD'01 not being in production order are accepted exceptions to the norm. We leave them as they are for reasons specific to each. But as for RB and RBA, we do have an idea of the production orders for each, but we instead use a weird mixture of production order and airing order that is consistent with no other series we cover. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:53, 16 March 2022 (EDT)
:OK quick correction to myself, turns out that it's all supposed to be chronological order; That just happens to be production order for everything but those four. Sorry! [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 14:09, 16 March 2022 (EDT)

==Help with statues / figurines==
I wrote up many of the [[Super7#Transformers ULTIMATES!|ULTIMATES!]] entries, simply because no one else had. I don't actually care about that sort of merch and it ended up being me paraphrasing from press releases and copying their pics. Just today I learned there are 3 waves of TF [[Minimates]] that have no coverage here at all. It definitely seems like a lot of high-end statues are falling through the cracks as well. Is there someone who is willing to make that stuff more of a project? If not, could we perhaps put out a call for submissions on our Twitter feed? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:47, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:I fear this is just... going to continue to be an Issue. The wiki is a labor of love, and the brand is at a point where there's a lot of stuff out there... well, that a lot of people probably aren't gonna love. Hasbro's moichandized the everloving HELL out of TF over the years, with more and more niche "G1" stuff that seemingly would never appeal to people for whom G1 is the big center of their fandom. I mean I just found some Micro Figures merch at a Big Lots, I've never seen these before, and I don't know offhand if they're on the wiki. They're kind of a nothing. It's hard to keep up. Same for stuff like phone games. 
:I don't know if there's an actual solution. ''Someone'' certainly needs to step up, but I kinda got my plate overflowing with my own pet (ha ha) niche chunk of TF history to exhaustively document, never mind dealing with stuff I am almost aggressively disinterested in. (Seriously what little Minimates experience I have left me with a worse impression of them than I already had from their hideous aesthetic alone.) Asking Twitter for people more well-versed in this stuff might could help for phone games, but... IS there anyone into Minimates as a whole Brand and not just in a "I get the licenses I like" sense to fill in gaps? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:20, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::Once I had composed the thought "Hey, it's bad that there are a lot of Minimates out with us not covering them at all," it was too late, and I just had to burn 40 minutes on some cut-and-paste writups for the entire series. That's one "solution," I guess, but even ''my'' obsessive-compulsiveness can only go so far. Editing this site really should not feel like a job... --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:18, 22 March 2022 (EDT)

==Implementing galleries==
I propose making galleries on character pages a wiki standard. The current mainpic + show screenshots format doesn't cover images like character models (Unless used as a mainpic), concept art, appearances in posters or toy murals, comic book covers, etc.
Other wikis have successfully implemented galleries, I think the Hololive Wiki galleries in particular work well as an example https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Tokino_Sora#Media.
This gallery header covers character models and has suites for concept art and even character uses in collaborative merch.[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 13:27, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:Seconded. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 13:30, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:I would say some version of this concept for a section has merit, if nothing else as a solve for major characters with several prominent character models, perhaps as a fairly unobtrusive method of documenting alt modes, etc etc. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:38, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::I'm for this. As a good example, the BotBots characters all look to have been radically redesigned for the show. By default the current standard is to keep the original stock art look will appear as the mainpic each page. Having a gallery option would be a good way to show both versions. [[User:ParadoxFactor|ParadoxFactor]] ([[User talk:ParadoxFactor|talk]]) 14:24, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:Oppose. There is no reason for these to take up space on the character pages. Would not oppose separate "gallery" pages. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 13:57, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::If we are open to workshopping implementation I do agree a separate "gallery page" in the style we already use for more conceptual articles here and there would probably be cleaner. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 14:06, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:::I love the gallery idea. There's a question of how much to include, and the exact implementation details of how to portion out overflow if there's too many images. It's a shame there isn't some way to generate them automatically just by tagging images with the characters they depict. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 14:24, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::A separate page seems like it would be overkill for someone like [[Flamewar (G1)|Flamewar]], who would only take a few images to cover appearances not already covered by fiction section images. I assume if a small gallery was to be used on a character's page, it would be near the bottom at any rate? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:22, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:::Yes, at the bottom would be ideal, no different from any of the galleries on our artist pages. IMO, separate gallery pages should only be used in instances where the number of images can't be comfortably fit onto one or two lines. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:33, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::::I agree with Cyberlink. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:29, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
:::Fair; Using gallery sections for those with few images and gallery pages for those with many images might make sense. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 15:46, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
::::See [[Megatron (G1)/gallery|G1 Megatron]] and [[Megatron (BW)/gallery|BW Megatron]] for examples of characters with enough images to justify separate gallery pages. [[Rhinox (BW)/gallery|BW Rhinox]], as it is now, is probably right on the line between "split it off" and "stick it at the bottom of the page". -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:58, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
I think choosing between a header at the bottom or a suite depending on image amount is a good solution instead of sticking to just one method.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 11:29, 22 March 2022 (EDT)
:Yeah, I think that would be good, as has been pointed out earlier. I do have to ask - because sometimes the artistic difference between characters in comics is slight with details only a little different in shape or kibble - would those fall under gallery stuff? Because they're effectively different per artist interpretation. I would be inclined to say yes, because effectively a different artist's rendition is shown usually of the same character without having reformatted or taken up armor or so forth. --[[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 10:56AM 27 March 2022 (PDT)
::I am very much on board with this idea. Having a gallery section or page depending on the character would be great, especially for characters like Flamewar who have a extremely prominent new design that we can't use as a main pic and for characters who have tons of designs, especially in the case of IDW where some characters change bodies every Tuesday. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]]) 11:35 AM 27 March 2022 (PDT)
::I think artistic liberty vs. new design would have to be on a case by case basis. Burcham's art of the BW cast wouldn't count for gallery purposes, in my opinion. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:08, 27 March 2022 (EDT)
:::I think it would be cool to have art of the same designs in different artstyles, but I agree it should probably be on case by case basis. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]]) 6:17 PM 27 March 2022 (PDT)
::I currently have a sandbox to test galleries using Tigatron https://tfwiki.net/wiki/User:MrRald/sandbox/Tigatron#Gallery. I'd appreciate any feedback on things to add or change! [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 23:44, 1 April 2022 (EDT)
::: I like what you have so far, I think we should maybe add a few more versions of Tigatron, like his different comic appearances and such. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]])

: Now that we're actually going ahead with this... I have to ask, what are the galleries actually ''for''? When we were discussing this I was under the impression that they were going to be for "behind-the-scenes" images that wouldn't otherwise have a place on the wiki, like out-of-universe character models, character concept art, or full-body renders from stuff like guidebooks. Right now, a lot of the galleries just feel redundant, given that they're just a bunch of cartoon and comic screengrabs taken from the relevant section and removed of all context... and a lot of them, like [[Blaster (G1)/gallery]] are just completely empty. The fact that every character ''can'' have a gallery does not mean that all of them ''should'', especially if most of them are just going to be redundant or mostly empty. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 18:57, 4 August 2022 (EDT)
::Agreed, I feel like this is bloating the wiki and toeing over the line of our vague remit. Despite having a LOT of images, we're not an image repository. Also, a lot of these could probably be done as a single subsection of the characters' mainpage under below "Notes" of whatever rather than as separate mostly-blank-space sub-pages full of sub-headers with like two images total in them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 06:11, 5 August 2022 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I didn't think they'd be separate pages. What I was expecting was whichever of the cartoon character model, Dreamwave profile art or package art weren't being used for the mainpic, plus behind-the-scenes stuff, plus maybe extra bits from artbooks, covers, or sources like that. Stuff that can't just be slotted into a fiction writeup—and I don't mean "comic crops we don't have room for because equivalent/better panels are already in the fiction section". —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 06:35, 5 August 2022 (EDT)
My intentions for the gallery pages were for users to actually do the work in uploading character models, renders, et al., not dumping whatever cartoon screencaps we already have in fiction sections. And separate pages would be on a case by case basis. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:46, 5 August 2022 (EDT)
I don't see the point, honestly. It seems like pretty much any significant body a significant enough character has will appear on the wiki at some point in a comic panel or a toy info image or a screenshot or something, somewhere. I'm not sure this is a problem that needs solving. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 20:36, 29 August 2022 (EDT)

===G1 model images===
To branch off of this topic, how would we feel about using [https://www.allspark.com/forums/threads/the-most-accurately-coloured-g1-animation-models-online.301/ DM's coloured models] for the G1 cartoon model galleries? The last time I brought this topic up (on Discord), some people were against the idea, due to them being fan-colour works and not official, but a few newer developments have been made since I last brought it up.

To clarify, for those unaware of DM's works:

* All of the line art is original and unedited (unlike several of the models in ''The Ark'' books, which had been tweaked, altered and traced by Bill Forster to make them presentable for publishing).
* The models are the final ones used throughout the majority of the cartoon (in Toei-animated episodes at least). Note: several of the models in ''The Ark'' books we have also come to discover were unfinalized ones, due to the internet and more stuff being made public since what was originally found around 2007—not to discredit Jim and Bill's hard work in putting those books together, it's just some of what we knew then isn't entirely correct now.
* And finally, the colours (which was the big thing some people were against). Unlike the handful of fan-coloured models that were originally uploaded to the wiki in the past, which eye dropped colors straight from poor quality episode masters, DM's colours are based directly on Toei and Marvel Productions' model colour guides, colour codes, charts, colour chips found by a member of the ''Dragon Ball'' fandom (who has scanned and digitized said colour chips) and other original production materials, meaning that the colours DM has used are all coming from the ''original'' original source.

An alternative Mr. Rald had brought up on Discord is that we could possibly look at using the uncoloured model line art instead, if people feel strongly against using fan-coloured works, but I think in order to present the G1 character models fully as references, you kinda need the colours included, especially given how poor the cartoon production was, what with all the animation errors (even in Toei episodes) etc, making it hard to gather decent references for the characters, which is mostly what these galleries are for.

Also, for the record, DM has given us permission to use his colourings on the wiki.

Let me know you thoughts. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 01:39, 6 April 2022 (EDT)

: I personally think that we should use DM's coloured models, they are as official as coloured models are going to get, and it's not like DM just randomly picked and chose want colours to use as FOCS said. We could just have the model and the colour guide, but at that point, just have the model sheet coloured. I would however be in favour of the uncoloured models with colour guides and the sheets with the fully coloured models to cover all our bases. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]]) 11:16 AM, 6 April 2022 (PDT)

== Making a page for the Unreal Engine? ==

War for Cybertron, Dark of the Moon (PS3/X360), Fall of Cybertron, and Rise of the Dark Spark all run on Unreal Engine, specifically Unreal Engine 3. Why isn't there a page for it. It could have good info on those wanting to mod those games.

Unrelated, but there's a server revival project being worked on for those games. Right now it's only on PC, and progress is slow, but should we include info for it in the pages for those games? It's not official btw, there's a Discord server for it and a few YouTube vids about it.[[User:Trashatron|Trashatron]] ([[User talk:Trashatron|talk]]) 17:29, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
:I'm not sure what information we could put on an Unreal Engine page that would be useful to modders. An Unreal Engine page would be general info on the engine and a list of games which use it. Diving into technical details isn't really something we do. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 17:52, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
:I think linking to {{W|Unreal Engine|Wikipedia}} should be sufficient. That's what I did when I ''unfortunately'' had to document the Funko NFTs. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 19:11, 24 March 2022 (EDT)
:I don't see what value there would be to this. Unreal warrants, at ''most'', a mention on the relevant game pages. We don't have pages for every program used to make every piece of TF media/product. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:33, 24 March 2022 (EDT)

== Category for characters with no established gender ==

So I just had this idea and decided to share it here because why not? We have categories for female characters and variable gender characters but not for characters with undetermined genders. Many BotBots for example don't have genders and I think this category could be a useful way of grouping them together. And who knows, maybe someday it could even help official creators specifically looking for genderless characters to establish a gender to them. Does anyone agree to implement this category? -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 19:06, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
:This concept has been discussed before in the past, and generally the feeling has been that this would be a bit too much like the wiki actively trying to shape canon. Don't get me wrong, creators taking advantage of characters with no official pronouns is neat and I'm all for it, but IMO the wiki shouldn't directly serve up them. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 19:26, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
::Interestingly, I can't seem to find a prior community portal discussion about this matter, though I know it has come up on the Discord server more than once, to the conclusion Jalaguy mentioned. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:35, 3 April 2022 (EDT)
:::Just to clarify, I thought of "official creators using it" as a quick example in favor of the category, but now I can totally see how it sounded like trying to influence canon too much. Regardless, I'd still be down for having the category if we agreed on it being useful for any other reason. -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 19:51, 3 April 2022 (EDT)

== Category for trans characters ==

We had a productive conversation about the no established gender thing on the wiki discord and it made me realize that there should be a transgender category for the five established trans characters that there are so far, Arcee (who has established trans characterization on two different pages), Howlback, Arcadis, Anode, and Lug. Jalaguy mentioned that this has been discussed and people thought it was a good idea but it hasn't happened, so I just thought I'd ask for go-ahead on this. I figured that transgender rather than just trans could be a good word to use for this, due to them all being people who have gender. The term trans is merely more broad and could cover different kinds of transness than that or aesthetic stuff that is similar to gender, but we have no confirmation of being there yet in canon. Thus I think transgender would be the most accurate and desirable term here, and the umbrella trans can always be tacked on later if we need to. --[[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 5:40PM 3 April 2022 (PDT) (edited 5:48PM PDT for clarity)
:Seconded. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]]) 5:53 PM, 3 April 2022 (PDT)
::Since there are no objections, I'll go ahead. :3 -- [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 4:19AM, 11 April 2022 (PDT)

==Streamlining disambig headers (revist)==
So I remember this conversation from last year about streamlining the disambiguation headers. I checked back on the talk page discussion (link to said discussion archive here https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive69#Streamlining_disambig_headers) to see what happened and even though there was a lot of people who liked the idea with some who did not, it did not seem like it went anywhere. I thought I'd see if anyone else would like to revisit this idea as I feel like this would streamline things more, especially for Movie and Aligned and maybe a bit of UT especially for the guys who show up in all 3 shows or those don't have other bots who are completely different sharing the same name within the trilogy. -- [[User:ComfyBlanket|ComfyBlanket]] ([[User:ComfyBlanket|talk]]) 9:01 PM, 12 April 2022 (PDT)

== Disambig tags and suites for Masterforce paired pages ==

We need to balance out our page titles for ''Masterforce'' human + transtector character pairs. Right now we have among extant pages and tentative redlinks:

Bullhorn (G1), Cab (human), Cancer (G1), Clouder, Ginrai (human), Shūta Gō, Lightfoot (G1), Minerva (human), Ranger, Road King, Wilder (G1)

Bullhorn (robot), Cab (robot), Cancer (robot), [something], Ginrai (robot), Goshooter, Lightfoot (robot), Minerva (G1 robot), Ranger (robot), Road King (robot), Wilder (robot)

I propose either we do human gets no species tag with the robot getting a species tag as the splinter page:

Bullhorn (G1) | Bullhorn (G1)/robot

or the human does get a species tag to equally balance with the robot:

Bullhorn (G1)/human | Bullhorn (G1)/robot

This would eliminate the need to have any longer-within-parentheses tag like "Minerva (G1 robot)" which would be affected by future continuities which may not yet have happened. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:55, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
:I would prefer either the human gets the "default" continuity tag with no further disambiguation or (human)/(robot) (with needed variations for disambiguation). The slash system is ugly to me. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:59, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
::I'm of the opinion that the slash option for both feels the most fair. While the human versions were the first and thus feel the most deserving of the "default" tag, the robot versions are likely to become more commonplace and relevant as newer fiction dips its toes into using more Japanese characters. On a similar note, it was decided not to give the "BW" tag to either BW Silverbolt out of fairness, so while a similar "human/robot" concept could be implemented, there is the problem with Minerva having an Animated counterpart who is also a robot, Cancer having an Animated counterpart who is also a human, there being a Kre-O Bullhorn who is also a robot, a G.I. Joe Lightfoot who is also a human, and an IDW Wilder who is also a human. "Minerva (Headmaster)" also doesn't work for the G1 robot since the human was a Headmaster too. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:29, 22 April 2022 (EDT)
::The slash system may not be entirely visually pleasant, but I consider having "Minerva (G1 robot)" in parentheses worse. In my proposal, all transtector characters would be unified symmetrically as "(robot)". [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 17:47, 24 April 2022 (EDT)

Here are three proposals to unify the namespaces:

Possibility 1: humans get nothing and robots get slashes

Bullhorn (G1), Cab, Cancer (G1), Clouder, Ginrai, Shūta Gō, Lightfoot (G1), Minerva (G1), Ranger, Road King, Wilder (G1)

Bullhorn (G1)/robot, Cab/robot, Cancer (G1)/robot, Doubleclouder, Ginrai/robot, Goshooter, Lightfoot (G1)/robot, Minerva (G1)/robot, Ranger/robot, Road King/robot, Wilder (G1)/robot

Possibility 2: both humans and robots get slashes

Bullhorn (G1)/human, Cab/human, Cancer (G1)/human, Clouder/human, Ginrai/human, Shūta Gō/human, Lightfoot (G1)/human, Minerva (G1)/human, Ranger/human, Road King/human, Wilder (G1)/human

Bullhorn (G1)/robot, Cab/robot, Cancer (G1)/robot, Doubleclouder, Ginrai/robot, Goshooter, Lightfoot (G1)/robot, Minerva (G1)/robot, Ranger/robot, Road King/robot, Wilder (G1)/robot

Possibility 3: both humans and robots get parentheses

Bullhorn (G1 human), Cab (human), Cancer (G1 human), Clouder, Ginrai (human), Shūta Gō, Lightfoot (G1 human), Minerva (G1 human), Ranger (human), Road King (human), Wilder (G1 human)

Bullhorn (G1 robot), Cab (robot), Cancer (G1 robot), Doubleclouder, Ginrai (robot), Goshooter, Lightfoot (G1 robot), Minerva (G1 robot), Ranger (robot), Road King (robot), Wilder (G1 robot)

Thoughts? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:12, 12 June 2022 (EDT)
:Isn't Option 1 one basically just a slightly different version of what we're already using and what you're proposing to change in the first place? Anyway, like I said above, Option 2 is the most fair between the human and robot depictions (as Option 1 feels like we're saying "The human versions are the more important versions" when it's the robot versions that are more likely to get any representation in future comic appearances), and it reduces the amount of multiple-word parentheses tags that we usually dislike using and try to avoid as best we can (which is the exact opposite of what Option 3 is proposing). Though, drop the "/human" from Clouder and Shūta Gō since their names already differ from "Doubleclouder" and "Goshooter". No need to complicate those two. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 08:45, 12 June 2022 (EDT)

==Transformers: Armada (Trading Card Collection)==
I recently discovered that Fleer published a Trading Card collection in 2003 for Transformers Armada.
I've documented everything I could find about it - including an Energon (preview) Scorponok card I got from a local retro game store.
[[Iacon0/Sandbox]]
Is it alright if I roll this out? [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 12:52, 1 May 2022 (EDT)

== WFC/FOC Reenergized Server Project info? ==

Info: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO5yzrWE9yVT56Rgxl9oqntVysxWr2k7e

Basically, it brings back the multiplayer servers for the Cybertron games, PC and PS3. Should this be talked about in the pages for those games? (ROTDS and ROTF aren't online at the moment, and 360 versions won't have support) [[User:Trashatron|Trashatron]] ([[User talk:Trashatron|talk]])}
:It's not official, so no, it shouldn't. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:54, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

== Handling of "former GoBots" and "former Diaclone" characters on the wiki ==

So recently we've been seeing multiple characters that had previously been portrayed as dimension-hoppers from non-Transformers realities, but using Transformers designs — [[Bug Bite (GoBots)]], [[Burn Out (Diaclone)]] and [[Lift-Ticket (Diaclone)]] — appearing as "normal" Transformers ([[Bug Bite (G1)]], [[Burn Out (Diaclone)]], [[Lift-Ticket (Diaclone)]]). There's some heavy dispute over whether we should put them on the same page or split them out (e.g. "since the GoBots Bug Bite isn't ''originally'' from a G1 universe, he shouldn't go on the G1 Bug Bite page), so I thought we should probably have a centralised place to put together a comprehensive set of standards.

My take, personally, is that GoBots and Diaclone are *not* continuity families, they're their own properties that happen to cross over with Transformers, and so shouldn't be split on that basis. I feel that Burn Out and Lift-Ticket, regardless of them being portrayed as Diaclone mecha in their initial appearance, are the same basic concept as the likes of Road Rage and Tigertrack — "Transformers versions" of existing Diaclone toys and decoes. It helps that [[Spin-Out (G1)]] inherently blurs the lines, having first appeared as a "normal" Transformer ''before'' he was portrayed as a former Diaclone mech.

For the GoBots characters, I'd frankly be tempted to go even more radical and just merge ''all'' of them — put all the [[Cy-Kill (disambiguation)|Cy-Kill]] cameos on one page, like we do for other external property characters. Even in the edge cases like [[Fracture (Movie)|Fracture]], there's the precedent of her actually being intended as just ''being'' the GoBot. It feels a lot simpler to me than the headache of having Bug Bite, the white Bumblebee who appeared in G1 stories, and Bug Bite, the ''other'' white Bumblebee who appeared in G1 stories, having separate pages on a technicality. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:57, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:Hard disagree on GoBots. By virtue of covering the Scioli comic in full, we have a GoBots continuity family to put them in. I say keep the ones who are explicitly GoBots at (GoBots), and put the ones who are Transformers (or ambiguous) at their respective continuity families. Basically, what we're doing for Bug Bite, do for all of them. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:23, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:I don't agree on movie-Fracture in specific and the mass-merge of ''all'' GoBots-based characters in general. Fracture's a movie-universe character who premiered in a movie-based toyline and appeared in movie-timeline fiction. "The toy was originally conceived as" holds very little water there in light of all the rest of that. I'm not wild about merging characters from different continuity families (aka "major franchise umbrellas", the point of that divide was always less "fiction-detail based" and more "real-world Hasbro/Takara starting over based" as an organizational tool), as that leans heavily towards the Wikipedia style "just lump 'em all together" manner that... doesn't really work for our scope. There's SG Bug Bite and Crasher too, I don't think they should go under a giant singular page for the character concept.
: But ''in general'' I agree with keeping stuff like Lift-Ticket and Burn Out together because the distinction is really too nitpicky to be useful. If we get an EarthSpark Lift-Ticket who is a red Hoist-like bot, then they can go on a separate page because "new major franchise umbrella" gives a decent degree of separation. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:25, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:: Oh, well, the SG GoBots are an obvious exception. If it's a "mirror universe" I feel like it should never share a page because the point is that it's the opposite.
:: That said, there are other nuances I admit I skimmed over — stuff like Wings Universe Cop-Tur, who's based on the original but is a secret genius and a good guy, I'm not sure he should be merged in. At the same time, though, splitting the Bug Bites feels disingenuous, and I'm not sure whether there's a good middle ground between "split 'em all" and "merge 'em all". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 20:44, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:::I also agree there isn't really a good middle ground. But here's the thing: If GoBots wasn't a factor and it was just G1 and Cyberverse, we wouldn't be having this conversation. At the end of the day, they're from another IP, but they're also genuine Transformers characters, and thus they should remain split like other Transformers characters. And that includes treating the genuine GoBot incarnations as separate entities. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:51, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:::I am, honestly, not sold either way on splitting/merging re: the "very distinctly the Tonka GoBots who originated from the Tonka GoBots franchise". I feel that there are '''''definitely''''' some bots that should not be merged with the Tonkas, by virtue of being from different continuity-families/hub-franchises (bots from the live action movies and Cyberverse, for example, should really stay separate). I'm less concerned about "in-fiction origin" because that's a clusterfuck all its own since 1984 best just left alone and we already disregard that for like Nebulans and stuff anyway, though I'd also argue that like, it should be taken into consideration the diff between an homage and an iteration (I'd argue ''Timelines'' Cop-Tur is the former and probably shouldn't be merged). But even just looking at them from the real-world staggered integration of the franchises, GoBots ARE a weird edge case (whaaat, something Scioli was involved in got weird? ''nnnoooOOOOOooooo'') and it kinda feels off to not treat them as a separate thing given their ultimate origins. But like, they are, functionally, "G1" characters as far as "how they were brought to TF" goes in the real world, and I'm not convinced that splitting out WFC Bug Bite is really a good idea or terribly helpful. So like, I dunno. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 02:06, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
::::And then there's the ''very'' unique case of GoBots Stretch having been given a retroactive backstory of being born in the world of Transformers Animated before he crossed dimensions and became a GoBot. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 02:23, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
:::::If anything, Stretch is a Transformer pretending to be a GoBot.
:::::The criteria that keep this wiki running and readable have always had some smudgy bits, and if you stare too long at any of them pretty soon all one sees is the smudge, not the dividing line or even the story itself. Cyberverse and Prime are each ''basically'' a retelling of G1, and if they didn't have a few features we've accepted as clear dividers from "real" G1, they could have gone within G1 just as much as the IDW comics have. The divisions are necessary to keep information from being a useless, unstructured, unnavigable mess; hopefully we can draw the lines in a way that comes to require the fewest exceptions later. '''My thoughts''': when there's a Bug Bite whose origin is explicitly "I'm not a Transformer, I'm hiding among them, creatures like myself find Transformers to be nauseating uncanny valley aliens," then that's a pretty extreme division, more extreme than many others we've been holding up for years without controversy, and should stay very much separate from any other Bug Bites who are just plain ol' white car Transformers. The various Cy-Kill cameos in G1 and Armada should stay separate, just because that's how we handle other hi-and-die cameos across firm storyline borders (Animated Overlord, SG Krok). I agreed at first with splitting the Burnouts/Lift-Tickets, but if it is really causing a huge dilemma I do not object to re-merging them. Each pair exists within the G1 storytelling universe. It is not essential that we build 2 different pages for G1 universe Lift-Tickets where one of them is a Diaclone mech and the other looks just like it and comes from someplace called Diaclone. We could paper that over with a "Note" explanation. The really important part is that both the Burn-Out and Lift-Ticket cases must get the same resolution. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 05:10, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
:I vote for split. I regret ever pushing for merging similar concepts around the time of ''Ask Vector Prime'' because a decade ago this wouldn't have been a question, it would have been settled with "obvious they're different characters." [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:38, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:Strongly in favor of putting the Diaclones back together so long as they remain essentially G1 guys. Especially since we now have ''two nigh-identical Burn-Out pages that differ only by which sliver of fiction section they possess''. Moderately in favor of putting all the dumb Cy-Kill cameos together because, like, it's only moderately funny to split out Cy-Kill (Armada) on a technicality. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 20:47, 29 July 2022 (EDT)
:: I'm going to stay out of the Bugbite / Fracture question. I'm too involved on the creative side. I think Walky nails it about Burn-Out & Lift-Ticket. And probably the Cy-Kill cameos too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 21:11, 29 July 2022 (EDT)

:I have to ask: if this is a concern, why did we split out the Cloud articles a month ago. Because they also are clearly designed to look like G1 characters, and aside from some minor changes in personality and dimension hopping stuff (which also applies to these three examples here), are near-identical in fiction to their Generation 1 counterparts. What makes them different from Bug Bite, Burn Out, and Lift-Ticket? [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 11:29, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
::Lead Cloud translator here. As we discussed in-depth at the time, the Cloud characters do nothing *but* dimension hop and frequently cross over with the Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity and their own G1 incarnations, rendering them nigh unintelligible when buried in A-list G1 articles. The Cloud issue was one of logistics and readability, not one on the philosophy of intrinsic "G1-ness," as I believe was said at the time. I would also argue something on the scale of Cloud is a different discussion entirely from the current topic of merging two one-paragraph articles.

::On a most practical level re-merging a thoroughly deliberated and reasonably large scale split from a couple months ago just strikes me as kind of a waste of community resources.

::For those that missed it the impetus was translating the other 80-90% of the prose and the discussion can be found [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#Splitting_Cloud_characters|here]]. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:40, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

Had a brainwave about a potential way to handle the GoBots characters—as a compromise between "treating them like full Transformers characters" and "treating them like external properties", use the GoBots page as a "hub" for the others. I've mocked up a couple of sandboxes for [[User:Riptide/Sandbox:Cy-Kill|Cy-Kill]] and [[User:Riptide/Sandbox:Bug Bite|Bug Bite]]. Any thoughts? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:16, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
:If we absolutely have to (which I still really don't agree with) I'd prefer this over full fledged merging. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:02, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
:I think this is a good compromise. The important thing is that there's a clear delineation between the dimension-hopping GoBots and native Cybertronians, and I think this fits the bill. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:03, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
::I still don't like the idea of rolling in the ''Cyberverse'' Bug Bite or any other not-G1-franchise iterations on the GB character concepts (like movieverse Fracture), even in the proposed super-abridged-and-linked-to-main-article format. For the appearances within the franchise of TF-origin, sure, I think this works. Cy-Kill's multiverse of murder... ehn. I'm not really feeling strongly either way but like we got hi-then-die charcater micropages aplenty, I don't think Cy is something terribly unique to not get them. Like... we got a page for "the many deaths of Optimus Prime", I feel like "the many deaths of Cy-Kill" could probably stand to be its own thing if we REALLY wanted to hammer the point of how stupid and hack it is home. Which, come to think about it, I kinda DO. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:42, 31 July 2022 (EDT)
:::Ah, see, Fracture was something I was specifically thinking of here — I thought it would work to accomodate both the original intent and how she's been tied back to Crasher in <s>Jim's nonsense</s> fan-targeted media while still respecting the practical reality of Fracture as her own, movieverse character. That said, I do understand your reluctance, so if the majority is against this I'm not too fussed. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:22, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
:::Yeah, it feels like "Bug Bite, the white Bumblebee" is its own Transformers thing at this point. He may have originated as a GoBots transplant (both in real life and in fiction), but that doesn't automatically make every iteration of Bug Bite a GoBot, any more than every subsequent iteration of Lockdown or Lugnut is considered an Animated character. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 04:34, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
::::I appreciate the work Riptide put into this and like the writing / presentation style employed... and I just still don't think it's necessary. Between disambigs and "You Look Familiar...", we already have ways to cope with characters who look alike across different continuities but who aren't the same character. Most of these transplanted GoBots are absolutely not the same characters as each other - most of the Cy-Kill cameos, Cyberverse Bug Bite. There is no need for us to build a new way to unite those cross-continuity characters when nothing unites them more than the "basic concepts" that we've kept separate on hundreds of other name / appearance reuses. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:43, 1 August 2022 (EDT)
::I adore this brain blast, over and above what I proposed below (as it actually accommodates, in Cy-Kill's case, say, the ''Armada/TransTech/Animated'' cameos), and think the fact that people on both sides of this polarising issue aren't immediately opposed to it makes it strike me as a really good compromise. I still would prefer the ''Diaclone'' pages to be merged with their G1 counterparts, but whether or not it's a full merge or just the "main article" structure here, the intro phrasing proposed with Cy-Kill and Bug-Bite is perfect in my opinion. The key thing for me is that, when people look up info on Cy-Kill or Burn Out, they still find a pointer to the relevant information at the exact point they'd expect it to be, and not only that, but they can chart the entire conceptual history of the character on one page (I know the disambigs theoretically do the same, but in practise Jo's approach is much more effective). Assuming the same policy isn't applied to ''Uprising'' appearances, I still think something should be done about those—but otherwise I'd be very happy with this. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 06:16, 1 August 2022 (EDT)

So as I understand it, the consensus is that Diaclone characters should share a page with their G1 counterparts, and that — at least for the moment — GoBot characters should be left as-is, with White Bumblebee's G1 adventures split between the GoBot and G1 pages? Would appreciate some more input before we begin implementing this. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:09, 2 August 2022 (EDT)
:I still don't like the Diaclone thing but clearly I'm outvoted. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:48, 2 August 2022 (EDT)
:More or less. I'm fine with rolling G1 WFC Bug Bite in with the explicitly-GoBots one in the manner test-bedded above on the same grounds as the whole "Nebulan/Cybertronian" deal with Targetmaster gun-bots we've done forever; I think the proposed format both works with the way we've handled disparate depictions between different fictions within the same franchise chunk for a very long time now while noting the important real-world issues with these transplanted characters. And it's not like the combo page would be anywhere near big enough to make a split-out necessary. But I'm willing to table that for the moment while moving ahead with rolling the Diaclones back in. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:15, 2 August 2022 (EDT)
::I agree with this completely. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 08:11, 3 August 2022 (EDT)
:Diaclone characters should share pages with G1 counterparts who are also canonically said to be Diaclone-y. If we ever get a "Gobots Universe Bug Bite" that would be merged too - but just "white car Bug Bite" should not. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:21, 3 August 2022 (EDT)

==Proposal re: G1 pages==
I'm not expecting anything other than a hard "no" on this from the vast majority of editors, but a few people impelled me to post it, so here goes. In particular, I think this perspective is one held by many casual readers of the wiki. As I said over on [[Talk:Burn Out (Diaclone)|Burn Out's talk page]], I think both camps feel a sense of "''obviously'' these are (not) the same character", depending on whether they're coming from a strictly in-universe perspective or not. I want to put that whole discussion into an even broader perspective. Plus, I think the list of characters below is an interesting resource in its own right.

For ages, the wiki's had it so G1 appearances of characters originating in ''Robots in Disguise''—such as [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]—just get put on those pages. My understanding is that RID was considered something of a special case, because of how it was originally conceived as an in-continuity G1 thing, and remained such in Japanese continuity. For a less-prominent example, see also ''[[Power Core Combiners]]'', which similarly lists the IDW G1 appearances of [[Smolder (PCC)]] and [[Steamhammer (PCC)]] just on those pages. Again, this was a special case, because PCC was never concretely established as being a live-action movieverse thing or a G1 thing (which makes sense, because in Hasbro's eyes at the time, that wasn't a distinction that mattered to them).

There are other areas on the wiki that take a continuity-agnostic approach; I think it's just character pages that are handled so strictly. Check out [[Noisemaze Mass Production Type Version]]—which honestly ''is'' a character page in every way that matters—for a recently-made-relevant-again example. For many bigger-picture concept pages, a similar approach is used to great effect: [[Transformation]], [[Scanning]], [[Energon]], [[Protoform]], [[Spark]], [[Living metal]], [[Mini-Con]], [[Energon mutation]], just to grab a few random examples.

To draw attention to one last point, which I predict will resonate a lot with people who already agree with me and not at all with people who don't: any and all ''Beast Wars'' or ''Beast Machines'' original characters are exempt from this issue—despite, on a real-world level, there not really being any difference between those franchises and the likes of ''Armada'' or ''Animated''. It's just the lore connection that keeps it tethered, despite the wiki treating it as its ''own'' continuity family in basically every other way that matters.

My specific proposal is this: '''for characters originating ''outside of G1'', don't keep separate G1 pages.''' Treat those characters as we do Sky-Byte, ignoring the "continuity family" divide, and put the appearances on the page where they're most relevant. Here are the salient benefits of this approach:
*Have all the information on many popular post-G1 characters in the place where most casual readers would expect to look.
*Cut the Gordian knot of the GoBots/Diaclone debate.
*Finally ditch all those (BWU) pages consisting of a single sentence and a duplicated toy entry.
*Fewer redundant toy writeups which need to be maintained in parallel.
*Far, far fewer awkward paragraphs in Notes sections talking about "continuity transplants" like those are a real thing.

Here is a list of pages which I think would be affected, sorted by continuity, just from an hour or so of searching:
*'''''Diaclone''''': [[Lift-Ticket (Diaclone)]], [[Burn Out (Diaclone)]]
*'''''GoBots''''': [[Bug Bite (G1)]], [[Crasher (G1)]], [[Cy-Kill (G1)]], [[Leader-1 (G1)]], [[Rest-Q (G1)]], [[Cop-Tur (G1)]] (!)
*'''''Armada''''': [[Hot Shot (G1)]], [[Red Alert (IDW)]], [[Demolisher (G1)]], [[Tidal Wave (G1)]], [[Sideways (RM)]] (!), [[Treadshot (IDW)]]
*'''''Energon''''': [[Steam Hammer]], [[Doom-Lock (BWU)]], [[Avalon (BWU)]]
*'''''Cybertron''''': [[Override (BWU)]], [[Ransack (IDW)]], [[Wing Saber (BWU)]], [[Cannonball (G1)]], [[Signal Lancer (G1)]], [[Shortround (BWU)]]
*'''Movies''': [[Barricade (IDW)]], [[Black-Out]], [[Reckage]], [[Hatchet (BWU)]], [[Breacher (G1)]], [[Terradive (G1)]], [[Hailstorm (G1)]], [[Skipjack (BWU)]], [[Sea Spray (BWU)]], [[Fearswoop (BWU)]], [[Depthcharge (BWU)]], [[Rav (BWU)]], [[Evac (BWU)]], [[Drydock (BWU)]], [[Photon (BWU)]]
*'''''Animated''''': [[Bulkhead (G1)]] (!), [[Lugnut (TF 2010)]], [[Lockdown (G1)]], [[Slipstream (G1)]] (!), [[Oil Slick (G1)]], [[Lightbright (G1)]], [[Lickety-Split (G1)]]
*'''''TransTech''''': [[Ego (BWU)]]
*'''''War for Cybertron''''': [[Contrail (BWU)]], [[Sigil (BWU)]], [[Halogen (G1)]], [[Gauntlet (BWU)]]
*'''''Prime''''': [[Knock Out (G1)]], [[Breakdown (IDW)]], [[Airachnid (G1)]], [[Predaking (Kingdom)]], [[Ser-Ket (BWU)]], [[Rot Gut (BWU)]], [[Twinstrike (BWU)]], [[Gaidora (BWU)]], [[Budora (BWU)]], [[Darksteel (BWU)]], [[Vertebreak (BWU)]], [[Grimwing (BWU)]], [[Blackbeak (BWU)]], [[Judora (BWU)]]
*'''''Rescue Bots''''': [[Medix (G1)]]
*'''''Robots in Disguise''''': [[Strongarm (G1)]], [[Thunderhoof (BWU)]], [[Bisk (BWU)]], [[Paralon (BWU)]], [[Quillfire (BWU)]], [[Scatterspike (G1)]], [[Ped (BWU)]], [[Psychobat (BWU)]], [[Headlock (G1)]], [[Springload (BWU)]], [[Transit (G1)]], [[Fracture (Cybertron)]], [[Snitch (BWU)]], [[Razorgrille (BWU)]]
*'''''Cyberverse''''': [[Shadow Striker (G1)]], [[Croaton (G1)]], [[Meteorfire (G1)]], [[Wildwheel (G1)]]
*'''''Transformers Online''''': [[Doomwings (G1)]], [[Ursa Major (G1)]], [[Astral Knight (BWU)]], [[Psychic Shortstop (BWU)]], [[Wrath Thunder (BWU)]], [[Deep Blue (BWU)]]
*'''Mini-Cons''': (deep breath) [[Synapse (BWU)]], [[Black Out]], [[Twirl (G1)]], [[Steamhammer (BWU)]], [[Sky Blast (G1)]], [[Sureshock (G1)]], [[Flat-Out (BWU)]], [[Six-Speed (BWU)]], [[Zapmaster (BWU)]], [[Crumplezone (BWU)]], [[Cannon (BWU)]], [[Bulge (BWU)]], [[Bomb (BWU)]], [[Shot (BWU)]], [[Crack (BWU)]], [[Thunderblast (BWU)]], [[Wreckage (BWU)]], [[Bonecrusher (BWU)]], [[Broadside (BWU)]], [[Tankor (BWU)]], [[Caliburn (BWU)]], [[Torque (BWU)]], [[Bilge (BWU)]], [[Search (BWU)]], [[Refute (BWU)]], [[Kingbolt (BWU)]], [[Starcatcher (BWU)]], [[Clench (BWU)]], [[Run-Over (BWU)]], [[Deepdive (BWU)]], [[Astro-Sinker (BWU)]], [[Snow Cat (BWU)]], [[Draft (BWU)]], [[Screw (BWU)]], [[Aston (BWU)]] (deep sigh)
*'''Other''': [[Terrastar (BWU)]], [[Hyperborea (BWU)]], [[Alchemor (BWU)]], [[Minion of Unicron (BWU)]]
I assuredly missed some, so feel free to edit the lists above to add any other characters that would be affected by this proposal which are omitted!

Again, the vast majority of these are from ''Beast Wars Uprising'', which does have some weird lingering cases that would need further individual discussion, I think: [[Clobber (BWU)]], [[Apex (BWU)]], [[Offshoot (BWU)]], [[Cybaxx (BWU)]], [[Overbite (BWU)]], and [[Terrorcon (BWU)]]. But for the most part, I really don't see any reason why there should be all these tiny nothing pages; the only reason all those Mini-Cons were not called Mini-Cons is that in the ''Uprising'' universe, Mini-Cons are called Micromasters instead (which is the lore equivalent of "[[Barricade (G1)]] doesn't look like he's made of knives"). This is even ''less'' an irreconcilable lore detail than, for example, the organic/robotic split for Targetmasters and the like. My main goal with sharing this is to revisit the ''Uprising'' policy, because from where I'm sitting, it's resulted in exactly the same horribly inconvenient setup as the ''Diaclone'' stuff. A different, specific policy there would deal with most of the examples above, and I'd be very happy; what I've suggested is just a one-size-fits-all policy.

The weirdest victim of this stated policy, I think, is that of [[Bulkhead (G1)]], who technically originated with Animated, but whose appearances in G1 media have all drawn specifically from the ''Prime'' version. [[Slipstream (G1)]] is in a similar situation. I guess my proposal here would be to actually split the G1 content across the various pages: [[Slipstream (Animated)]], [[Slipstream (WFC)]] and [[Slipstream (Cyberverse)]], depending on which specific version is being depicted. That means all of the Bulkhead appearances would actually go on the ''Prime'' page. I really don't feel strongly on this detail, though. [[Cop-Tur (G1)]], as mentioned in the above discussion, is another edge case. One more strange case ''not'' listed above is that of [[Emissary (IDW)]], who homages the ''Robots in Disguise'' character but genuinely has what I'd consider to be a radically different portrayal, likely inspired as much by the ''Titans Return'' figure as anything.

To be clear, I consider G1 a special case because of how it's a catch-all label for anything that isn't Hasbro's newest ground-up reboot du jour. Like it or not, G1 usually doesn't actually mean "G1" any more, it just means ''Transformers''. I absolutely wouldn't want to start merging anything from other continuity families—that way pure madness lies. But I think this proposal has clear-cut criteria for inclusion, and would feel more consistent with other areas of existing wiki policy. To give a specific, relevant example: I don't think [[Fracture (Movie)]]'s appearances should be folded onto her merged ''GoBots'' page as some have suggested, ''but'' I do think her toy writeup should be on both without any "blah blah repurposed" hedging, and likewise for the other movieverse characters based on redecos designed by [[Joe Kyde]] contemporaneously with Classics and Universe with specific G1 characters (mostly Micromasters) in mind, some of which were even intended to be released as part of the ''Universe'' toyline. These being: [[Fracture (Movie)]], [[Big Daddy (Movie)]], [[Jolt (Movie)]], [[Grindcore (Movie)]], [[Breakaway (Movie)]], and [[Crankcase (Movie)]]. [[Mudflap (Movie)]] and [[Inferno (Movie)]] are basically the exact same but nobody ever talks about that.

Finally, I think [[Gigatron (G1)]]/[[Overlord (G1)]], [[Zaptrap]]/[[Kuwagatrer]], and [[Rotorbolt (Timelines)]]/[[Skyklik]]/[[Fumes]] should prrrooobably be revisited? In the former two cases, they exist due to niche media establishing them as separate individuals within the same continuity, but we already have precedent for dealing with that—see [[Hot Shot (G1)]]. I will concede that the Rotorbolt situation is quite funny.

I understand that the wiki is structured the way it is for good reasons, but the post-[[Evergreen]] state of the franchise is one where most writers are plucking characters from anywhere in the franchise's history without any significant changes to their depiction. The existing policy will only become more cumbersome as time goes on, in my eyes—I know for many editors, the list of pages above is a horrible scary list of Exceptions, but from where I'm sitting, they feel more like exceptions as they already stand? —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 07:25, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
:As someone who is basically sympathetic to your goals and not knee-jerk opposed to the idea, this:
:::"Slipstream (G1) is in a similar situation. I guess my proposal here would be to actually split the G1 content across the various pages: Slipstream (Animated), Slipstream (WFC) and Slipstream (Cyberverse), depending on which specific version is being depicted."
:is the worst thing I've ever read. Just, why? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 08:14, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
::I was mostly being glib, I don't have a good answer there! Just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it ''would'' be a problem with the proposal. It's also been pointed out that all of [[Lockdown (G1)|Lockdown]]'s appearances are visually based on the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toy! —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 08:56, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

:Absolutely not. There's so much here that's based on false assumptions/incorrect information that I absolutely refuse to take any of this seriously. Concepts are on the same page because they are just that: concepts. There's so much to pick apart here but because I have important things to do, I'll just say that right now, the only reason why there was ''ever'' any confusion over Power Core Combiners is because fans took behind the scenes information from the company overly literally. You actually look at the one piece of information about the toyline (the brief history provided directly by Hasbro the club) and it makes it abundantly clear that it was always meant to be movieverse; I even argued back at the time about Smoulder and Steamhammer being put on that page, and the only reason why it's still that way is because the argument just fizzled out. And once again, I really have to ask: why the hell are we pushing forward merges based on "vibes" when we still keep the Sideways' (someone who is actually said in fiction to all be the same guy) apart based on moronic, petty reasons? [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 09:01, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

:Yeah, no, sorry, I think this is ultimately unhelpful and going to cause more accessibility issues than it solves. "The wiki sorts the brand into broad franchise-based chunks (G1/BW, UT, movie, etc), and characters are split up by which of those chunks they appeared in" is perhaps a little confusing to new readers, but it's ultimately fairly self-consistent and easy to navigate once you understand the basic concept; "The wiki sorts the brand into broad franchise-based chunks (G1/BW, UT, movie, etc), and characters are split up by which of those chunks they appeared in, with the exception of RID01 which shares its pages with G1, and any latter-day characters imported into G1, which go on the pages of their non-G1 incarnations" is very confusing and requires you to be deep in the sauce to understand which characters are and are not exceptions to the rule. I obviously think that flexibility of the system is a good thing — the RID/G1 merge, while less than ideal, is definitely the best way to solve a very unintuitive issue — but the more holes we poke in the tower the closer it comes to collapsing, if you catch my drift.
:Ultimately I think the occasional silliness of "Shadow Striker (G1) who is identical to Shadow Striker (Cyberverse)" and such is the price we pay for having any structure whatsoever. The more we make exceptions on the basis of ultimately arbitrary "well this one's SO similar" the less consistent the wiki overall gets, and the harder it gets to navigate. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:40, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
::Basically, this. And I don't even think that drawing the franchise-based chunk distinction is all that confusing given I think most people grok the idea that characters will pop up across sub-fictions of major multi-media franchises with varying levels of similarity to prior incarnations that are still "oh, it's a wholly separate storyline, okay". That's just how these things ''do''. (and like "multiverse" has kinda become a ''thing'' in other franchises the last several years) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 10:00, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

:"We've always put RID guys appearing in G1 as still being the RID character, look at Sky Byte" - what other examples make this an "always"? There WERE two Sky Byte pages, for years. We only stopped having a Sky-Byte (G2) when its character model in the IDW G1 comic was explicitly based off the new T30 toy sculpt which wound up with like half of these separate articles duplicating each other. It was argued on that talk page for a long while. The only other case I can think of at all is Gigatron (G1), and we ''don't'' treat him like Megatron (RID).
:"We treat BW as a continuity family like Armada, it looks like we are showing favoritism to them" - we treat it like a franchise within G1, which is what it is. And we disambig by franchise, not by continuity family. "Chase (RB)", not "Chase (Aligned)" or "Chase (Prime)". This was one of the concerns I raised last year when we turned Victory, Masterforce et al into G1 because they had no separate box branding of their own, wait it turned out they did, welp whattaya gonna do, no backsies.
:'''Last but MOST''', I'd say that, yes, "lore connections" mean a great deal here, it is a feature not a bug. This is a fiction-centric wiki as surely as it's an English-centric one. We put character writeups first, above the toys. We give the toys the character names and say "his stickers", not "its stickers" and talk about how it represents the character, not about how many micrograms of silicon it contains. Separating characters because they come from different storyline eras / offerings is entirely normal and reasonable for us. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:43, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
::I don't disagree in general, but G1/IDW Gigatron DOES share a page with RID Megatron. [[Gigatron (G1)]] is the Overlord repurpose. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:49, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
:::Oof. Don't know why I clearly remembered them as being separate, but in any case I regret the error. Thank you.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:14, 30 July 2022 (EDT)
There's no way to organize something like this place without something somewhere seeming arbitrary. I think the existing structure is arbitrary in the best way that makes the most sense, and trying to "mitigate" that arbitrariness just creates different arbitrariness. A lot of this "but what if we redid all this to fix this particular thing" shuffling just relitigates why we already do the stuff we already do. so, like: no --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 09:54, 30 July 2022 (EDT)

== The Discord ==

Alright, seriously, we need to talk about this. It is beyond frustrating that a greater than 50% chunk of discussion about what big edits will happen on the wiki are happening on an app that people either aren't on or (in my case) aren't allowed on. I was told it was going to just to get voices onto things but that clearly isn't how it's working out. We need either some sort of archival dump of all these posts or something because I'm tired of getting into arguments where half the responses haven't even happened on the main site itself. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 07:45, 17 August 2022 (EDT)
: I think you're drastically overestimating how much discussion about big edits is happening on the Discord. No actual big decisions are getting made there, and we make it a point to repeatedly remind people that discussion for major changes needs to happen here before anything gets decided. But we also can't stop anyone from simply talking about things there the same way we couldn't stop discussion on the AllSpark thread when that was a thing, and having a public log of discussions from the editing channel is both infeasible and frankly unnecessary. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 09:09, 17 August 2022 (EDT)

==Designer bylines on toy writeups==

As those of us who have been tuning in to the [[Hasbro Pulse#Livestreams|Hasbro Pulse livestreams]] have no doubt noticed, one side effect of the unprecedented transparency of the current team on the ''Generations'' franchise is that we are now pretty consistently being blasted with a fire hose of toy designer credits. While there's been a scramble to record them on the designers' pages as best we can, this rapidly growing body of information is not doing the average reader a whole lot of good sequestered away on pages that require them to already know the designers by name. As such, I've put together a template to act as a designer byline for relevant toy write-ups, largely following the formatting of our existing voice actor template.

Documentation for the prototype template which I've named '''<nowiki>{{toydesigner}}</nowiki>''' can be found here:

*[[:Template:Toydesigner]]

And a variety of examples of implementation can be found here:

*[[User:AzimuthAcolyte/Sandbox/Toy credits demo]]

Is this something we would be interested in implementing?

Questions, concerns, suggestions etc are welcome. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:33, 22 August 2022 (EDT)

:I support adding this template, it's valid information and helps put names and faces in a historically anonymous industry due to the lack of credits in the products themselves.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 13:38, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
::I think this is a great idea. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:52, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
:::I really like it. The only possible negative is that unless a whole bunch of people are very dedicated to this (or one brave soul is ''extremely'' dedicated to it) we might end up seeing it only appear on a small handful of toy entries and most will never feature it. I vote for going ahead with it regardless.
:::While we are addressing the "designer credits" issue, can we also please find a better phrase to use on the designer pages than "Toys So-and-so is known to have had a hand in creating"? It's just so overwrought. I think "Design Team Credits Include:" gets the point across much more naturally.... --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:54, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
::::This is a fair point. Maybe something as blunt as "Known Design Work" mirroring the "Published Works" thing we use for writers/artists? -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:17, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
:Looks good to me. Hope we can scrounge together sources and lists for older design teams too. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 15:05, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
::I can't see any reason not to do this. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:05, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
:I'm not a toy person, but that looks really cool! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:23, 22 August 2022 (EDT)
Oh wow, I'm blown away by the universally positive reception here! If there are no concerns in the next few days I guess I'll get started rolling this out. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 11:17, 25 August 2022 (EDT)
:Alrighty it's been a fair bit with no further concerns, so I have pushed the template live to [[:Template:Toydesigner]] and will begin implementing it as I have time. Any and all help is appreciated, as this will of course be a huge job. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 16:13, 29 August 2022 (EDT)

== Wiki Toy Photo Quality Standards ==
So we know (and had long suspected anyway) that Hasbro designers are sometimes pulling Wiki photos for reference. That's great, but we've got some toy photography on here that's a good bit off from what the figures look like in reality for one reason or another. Is there any way to flag shots that are out of whack so that they might get tweaked or replaced? This issue comes to mind since, while I've been here more or less since the Wiki started, I don't recall there being a formal set of standards for photos since it just wasn't really a big deal before now. Oversaturation is my main complaint, since one user a long while ago was going through, taking existing shots into Photoshop and oversaturating the hell out of them without regard to the actual toy, and I've noticed some updated photography like [[Prowl (Magnaboss)]] that does basically the same. It's a larger photo, but that Prowl is definitely not blazing yellow in person. Apologies in advance and please disregard if this has already been discussed elsewhere or before.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 16:10, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
:For the record, my lighting set up is very warm, hence why Prowl's colours appear so bright. I haven't figured out the right balance in Photoshop to get the colours of figures to look spot on so figures either appear too bright or too dull in the finished product. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 17:30, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
::Oh, I'm not intending to put you on the spot, that's just the first example I had on hand of a wider issue that we probably need to start being careful about since it appears to be (hilariously) affecting actual figures now, like Titans Return PMOP or Legacy Iguanus. When it was the one guy tweaking things to be inaccurate "because it looked better", I could follow him and revert stuff, but I can't when there's nothing to revert in most cases.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 18:38, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
::I recommend ring lights, you can get some pretty cheap, they've good at spreading light out rather than heavy-focus, and they have adjustable brightness and warm/cool light settings: use "cool" (aka white/blue-tinted). Even before I got ring lights, I used "cool" light bulbs in the lamps. The problem is these are nowhere as common as the "normal" yellow-tinted bulbs, thus, go with the ring lights.
::As for "standards"... well, good luck with that. Every camera's a little different. Every MONITOR is a little different. Hell, I have a double-monitor setup with different models and they have small but distinct differences in brightness & etc; honestly I'm good with it since it lets me check how things may look to different people. But I think maybe a tag for photos that we are CERTAIN are too far off from final product (be they user-made or stock images) may not be a bad idea. Assuming we notice. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:44, 24 August 2022 (EDT)
:::Yeah, a tag we can throw on to a photo just to make it at least visible that it's incorrect would be useful. And would probably prompt a deco designer to gather some secondary reference material, assuming the tag's obvious. I like the idea.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 16:29, 29 August 2022 (EDT)
:::I've noticed that the quality of the UT stuff in the toys section flunctuates greatly-- for example, ML Starscream still uses the guidebook picture, and Superlink ver of the combining Optimus downright doesn't exist. I've started to collect UT toys since Hasbro has been updating UT stuff with more commitment and I have 0 faith in them doing it right, and most of the stuff I've gotten are the JP versions. For minor alterations like ML/ Armada Megs, is it worth uploading a completely new picture of ML Megatron onto his page? Another issue worth regarding discussing is "cartoon accuracy". Whilst Hasbro is indeed working on making more accurate figures, they obviously aren't 100% accurate, like 86 starscream using the commonly accepted G1 logo instead of the sunbow accurate one with the spike in the middle, and even from a sculpt and proportional standppint the ER mold is far from accurate compared to the sunbow model, let alone MP52. I actually cleaned up the page for TM2 Megatron because he deviates pretty heavily if you compare the CG model to the final toy, and changed the claim that Skids is "toon" accurate as he is blantently based on the original toy in deco. The same goes for Starscream, aside from the forearms and forehead hes blatently based on the T30 toy. I also had to edit that bit --[[User: Pixelmaster|Pixelmaster]] 3:31 HKT

==Reconsolidating some of our pages==
This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I'd like to propose re-merging some of our excessively split articles back into something more manageable. It seems like that once a page is split out, a) we get a lot less editorial oversight, as the recent toy page trimming has revealed, b), stuff does not get updated nearly as often as they would be on their respective mainpages, and c) it makes information harder to find by pushing it behind a subpage that's not readily accessible.

Obviously I understand that splits are necessary for the really long pages like [[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Megatron (G1)]], and soforth, but when you get down to like, [[Mirage (G1)]] or [[Hound (G1)]] or [[Hot Shot (Armada)]], there's barely anything of any significance on their main pages beyond Dreamwave or the odd IDW cameo. Are, for instance, [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]]'s Marvel adventures that major that they can't fit into the main page? Are [[Hook (G1)/toys|Hook]] or [[Warpath (G1)#Toys|Warpath]] really that inundated with toys that they need their own subpage? If it's a problem of just ''length'', then a lot of the subpaged articles or mainpage stuff like the storybooks could just be trimmed down into something more manageable—as I did with G1 Cliffjumper's Marvel section earlier this year. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 17:00, 29 August 2022 (EDT)
:I 100% agree with this. --[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 17:04, 29 August 2022 (EDT)
: Fully in favour. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 17:20, 29 August 2022 (EDT)
: Sub-pages should, on their own, be significantly sizable pages to justify making readers link-jump. A dozen toys does not strike me as remotely enough to justify a subpage split. Being ''in'' a major long-running fiction but mostly having appearances in a minority of installments that can be summed up in two sentences doesn't justify a split. New editing tools are fun and all, but just 'cuz you gotta new hammer doesn't mean you have to go hunting for anything that looks vaguely nail-like. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:18, 29 August 2022 (EDT)

== Incoming maintenance ==

Just a heads up, our host is going to be doing some maintenance in about an hour that may cause problems with the site, so if you have trouble reaching it and therefore cannot read this message, that's what it is. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:11, 23 November 2022 (EST)

== Foreign names ==

A dispute came up recently on the [[Megatron (ES)]] page. User:Kiké Prime has been providing Hungarian names for all the characters, but this one apparently is just "Megatron". Cyberlink420 removed it. I disputed it, pointing out that not listing it leaves the implication that we do not know the name of the character in the language. Despite having my reversion again reverted, I still find deliberately leaving blanks in our name lists odd. I am thus bringing the matter here for further discussion. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:16, 5 December 2022 (EST)
:My understanding has always been that we only add foreign names if they are different from the English name. Per pages like [[Megatron (G1)]], this includes examples where the name is the same, but is spelled with a diacritic or using a different alphabet. So "Megatron" wouldn't be different enough to justify inclusion, but examples like Mégatron, Megatrón, Мегатрон and メガトロン would. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:10, 5 December 2022 (EST)

== Nonbinary Character Category ==

So, we now have another nonbinary character (who actually used their pronouns during the media no less), [[Nightshade (ES)|Nightshade]] from [[Transformers: EarthSpark (franchise)|Earthspark]] (Nightshade at time of posting doesn't have a page yet)! The other fully for certain fully intentional one is [[Screwball]] from [[Beast Wars: Uprising]] while [[Acid Storm (Cyberverse)|Acid Storm]] was at least an out of media by writer retcon of animation, and [[Overlord_(G1)#Ask_Vector_Prime|Overlord's]] gender is somewhat nebulous on where that fits beyond being gender expansive due to being [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#December 23, 2015|"what some would call genderfluid"]] but that at least puts us at three. Given that we have a trans category now we thought it best to at this point suggestion a nonbinary category for the sake of users (including gender expansive people) easily finding nonbinary characters on here. Obviously adding Nightshade will have to wait until they have a page but any thoughts on this yea or nay? [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 18:28, 8 December 2022 (EST)
:I forgot about Screwball. I think with three confirmed examples, even without the edge case of Overlord, that's probably enough to justify one. Care will have to be taken, however, to only include confirmed examples and not use it as a dumping ground for any character whose gender has never been explicitly identified. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 18:37, 8 December 2022 (EST)
::Authorial intent and all, but I can say that if I had the option to go back and rewrite it I would have used the term non binary for Overlord. I feel like Acid Storm is more of an edge case; it’s what one person said on their account to justify it. Whenever Acid Storm actually says something they’re animated with a female face; it’s not done at random.[[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:47, 8 December 2022 (EST)
:::Acid Storm changes from masculine male to feminine female and back. Gender-fluid, sure, but definitely non-binary? As for Overlord, in the Legends manga Mega gives Overlord a female-presenting face - is there a pronoun change during that time? Would we have more candidates for inclusion in a Gender-fluid category first? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 20:17, 8 December 2022 (EST)
:::::Thank for the notes folks, that does help to piece this together! Just want to note that a pronoun change is not necessary for a gender being experienced in fluidity to be the one expressed or what have you, so unless the Legends manga actually has some sort of statement about Overlord's fluidity that kind of puts us back with an umbrella term of nonbinary (which we are unsure as not having read the Legends manga if that would work for that Overlord so we can't speak to where/if Overlord falls under gender expansiveness beyond the fact that Overlord's presentation changes depending on the binary bond partner right?). Acid Storm is an edge case yes but if we do count the edge case that they are we think it is worth noting that for Acid Storm what Catt said was specifically that changing expression is just something they do, and "any pronouns" work for Acid Storm, no statement about the binary. Of course, we only see two faces which are the two different Seeker faces that were otherwise delineated by gender, but at this point we're getting into the opt-in thing of 'x person is genderfluid and thus considers themself nonbinary' or 'z person is genderfluid and only considers themself as under the multigender umbrella'. Which we don't have detail on really if Acid Storm is genderfluid as how they know themselves right? Because that's just a thing that was written in the Female Transformers page because of (no blame being given, it's understandable) the user finding that to be the term that fit best? Feel like we've ended up just pointing out an need for just a gender expansive category instead but ah well. [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 21:46, 1 January 2023 (EST)
::::::We seem to have killed this with a non-solution for the nonbinary category by pointing out that gender expansive is more certain than saying genderfluid. If we count Nightshade, Overlord, and Screwball, is that a go on nonbinary, or should we just have a gender expansive category at this point that would also be one trans characters use? For people wondering what gender expansive means you can find a definition here https://www.diversitystyleguide.com/glossary/gender-expansive/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/08/gender-expansive-mean/ [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 23:18, 6 February 2023 (EST)
:::::::Respectfully, I think needing to invoke a glossary suggests the term is so little-used in common parlance that it would not be useful for our needs and style. We don't have a category tag at the bottom of a bunch of BW characters saying "tetrapods" or "perissodactyls" (we ''do'' talk like that on [[Popular beast alternate modes]], maybe a grouping ''page'' would be a better approach? Just a thought...). If we are looking for a category tag I think it would be better to find the term that unambiguously covers the largest number of candidates, without a need to rely on edge cases, maintaining both accuracy and readability. I see three characters that could sensibly go in a Gender-fluid tag, one that could go in a Non-binary tag (meaning we wouldn't make the latter). We may be facing a case where there are few enough disparate examples that there isn't one single category tag that usefully unites them. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:55, 7 February 2023 (EST)
::::::::With the most recent block of EarthSpark episodes having further explored Nightshade's character and introduced a new nonbinary character in the form of Sam (this also saw the term nonbinary used in the show for the first time), we have been discussing the topic of introducing a Nonbinary characters category on the Discord. Doing some research, AVP also confirmed the Tigerhawk of Primax 496.22 Alpha (the Beast Wars cartoon continuity) to be nonbinary, so that's another character to justify that category. It's been suggested by an expert on the matter that we could introduce a "Gender expansive characters" category as an umbrella category, with Genderfluid characters, Nonbinary characters, and Transgender characters existing as subcategories as a way of future-proofing our coverage of gender expansive characters, while also ensuring we don't lump every gender expansive character together into a single broad category and hopefully making these concepts easier to navigate for casual readers. - [[User:Archforce|Archforce]] ([[User talk:Archforce|talk]]) 17:26, 4 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::In sequence you replied to my post of Feb 7 but seem to have side-stepped the part where I questioned the usefulness of a category tag that will not be widely understood. Also, creating such a category exactly ''is'' "lumping them all together into a single broad category." So is that approach desirable or not? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 17:43, 4 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::: They said the word nonbinary in the show. In a show full of nonbinary rep. And then nonbinary characters exists outside of that show, and it would not be a dangerous bet to expect this to continue. But people are born with an innate understanding of what an Alpha Primax 9384u743 is, or Transmetals, or Powermasters, but not what a nonbinary person is so yeah maybe we are going too far on this website for nerds who want to learn more about things related to Transformers (like nonbinary characters). We have a category called council members. Literally for any character who has served on any council. I did not understand what "council members" actually refered to before I clicked on it, assumed it was more specific than it was, but in fact it took me two seconds to figure it out. A non-binary category and/or gender-expansive category would surely be the same. And as Archforce says, make these concepts easier to navigate. Or if that was too long, what Walky said. Seriously. You also appear to misunderstand what is meant by lumping together. Because putting all non-binary people in a non-binary category is accurate, and is something I and at least some others want, putting all non-binary people on a transgender page would be a misrepresentative "all of these are the same thing right?". Gender-expansive on the other hand comes from someone familiar with the matter, and as a non-binary person myself, as someone who has researched gender representation in media at an honours level (to flex some credentials that yeah I could be making up), I agree with what is being said on the Discord. Gender expansive as an umbrella provides the room to not lump everyone together while recognising yeah there is something shared in any act of gender that is not one of cisgender conformity. Having transgender and nonbinary characters on the same page while called out as two seperate subcategories I again think helps casual readers navigate based on this. [[User:Bumblebee2000|Bumblebee2000]] ([[User talk:Bumblebee2000|talk]]) 18:40, 4 March 2023 (EST)
::::::::::Not using the best useful terms because they're not understood by enough people is extremely self-defeating. I reject that line of thinking. (also, like, c'mon, the first complete article for this wiki was gaddang Robot-Master, not Optimus Prime, so I think we can say the words "gender expansive" even if someone hasn't heard of them) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 17:49, 4 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::Thank you all for the discussion! To clarify regarding aesthetics (because gender is aesthetics, we can give recommendations on stuff to read re that), the term gender expansive does not in fact cover everybody, merely all the bots we're talking about it in this instance and likely future unless we get canon transformers fiction that actually uses a variable alien aesthetic system that isn't gender but is something similar. To put this another way: not all human societies' aesthetic category concepts and formulation of individual and collective context for self such as pronouns, names, expressions, (to use Leslie Feinberg's words for navigating transness and gender itself, the 'poetics,' not just construction) etc. used or uses those in a way that neatly fits modern Western gender constructs with a large number of examples both from outside Europe and within it. In a similar vein some xeno aesthetic spectrum folks (like some of ourselves, and yes we're getting very obscure here the gender parallel is xenogender) and speculative fiction/sci-fi about aliens live or navigates the idea of aesthetic structures that are not gender at all but merely overlap or parallel.
:::::::::::Transformers fiction has really only touched on the subject of the alien aspect of the bots' gender or lack thereof when trying to portray that something is there by e.g.; parallel with the embodying and living of their various modes such as when Lodestar speaks to having weapon retrofit dysphoria in the 2021 annual (yes, the 'embodying and living' is something we're borrowing from Gayle Salamon on how she frames gender), their unique histories, the December 23rd 2015 AVP gender answer having a note about continuities where the concept of gender is barely relevant, and possibly that time 'gal' got put in quotations (it's still unclear what Maggs meant by that but that's okay). So rest assured that while gender expansive is a broad category- it only future proofs us until alien terminology or narrative that is clearly shown in replacement of when gender would otherwise be used in a story actually happens in canon. Which would be incredibly exciting, but isn't where we are right now. [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 19:11, 4 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::But we are nonetheless at a special point in time in the transformations of transformers, that the categories genderfluid, nonbinary, and gender expansive would be useful for. <3 [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 19:15, 4 March 2023 (EST)
::::::::::::Gosh that felt good to dedicating an afternoon to doing, thank you for the help! We feel that [[Editor|Chief]] ought to be included in the gender expansive category, and given the entry regarding Tigerhawk that was mentioned here, Spittor arguably also could be [[Source:Ask_Vector_Prime/Facebook#May_23.2C_2015|"In some universes where Spittor scans an organic alternate mode, his biological system conforms to female while his Cybertronian gender identity is male."]]. Chief seems fairly obvious? RE Spittor where his situation could be argued to break down is the cybertronian understanding of gender maybe not matching gender and anatomy as framed by humans but then that in itself still qualifies. [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 20:32, 5 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::: *shrugs* maybe the latter re Spittor and similar situations is just something to note in an eventual article rather than to throw in the category itself [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 20:45, 5 March 2023 (EST)
:::::::::::::I'm gonna say that I'm for Editor while Spittor is ultimately a way of just saying that his alt-mode is a female frog even though he's male. Ala Tigatron in the cartoon, Waspinator, etc. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:57, 5 March 2023 (EST)
::::::::::::::Thank you, that helps clarify things! :3 [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 21:47, 5 March 2023 (EST)

== Adding an informative table to each character page ==
I was thinking about it since it's striking.. lack.. There should be a way to tell people in which and how many episodes/issues/movies each character appears in the continuity they belong to, their debut episode/issue movie, what aliases they have had and nicknames they were given by other characters, a more centered area for the voice or live actors, a link to their gallery pages(if they have any) and one to their disambiguation pages etc. The kind of information that one would prefer to find with greater ease, especially if they aren't members. And talking about their appearances, that should prove quite useful for future page edits, since we'll know exactly where to look especially when it's about latecomers or characters that don't appear on a regular basis. I just think it'd be useful. [[User:Darthrone|Darthrone]] ([[User talk:Darthrone|talk]]) 15:44, 2 February 2023 (EST)
:This kind of infobox was discussed at the very earliest days of this wiki, and it was decided that there was just way, way too much information for it to work... and this was in 2006, BEFORE the franchise exploded. TF is such a fragmented kludge of fictions from multiple sources and creators spanning 40 years that any major character would end up with one ultra-massive thing of dubious use (can't say I see the value in a "number of appearances" tally, aside from the headache of keeping that accurate over time and arguing "what counts"), or a billion splintered ones spread across the page for the different fictions. And "nicknames" is always a minefield as those tend to turn into a massive list of "someone called them this once" which is... not helpful. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:46, 2 February 2023 (EST)
::Even if it had been a day-1 thing, I don't see how this is more informative than our current style. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 17:58, 2 February 2023 (EST)
:::I'm for infoboxes, but the information you're asking for is far too abstract and meaningless in this franchise. (We are absolutely not doing "nicknames". No.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:09, 2 February 2023 (EST)

==The (BWU) tag==
I understand the reasons why [[#Proposal re: G1 pages|my previous proposal]] regarding the proliferation of (G1) pages for random newer characters was soundly rejected. However, my main motivation for raising it was that I find the huge quantity of (BWU) pages for "repurposed" Mini-Cons and bestial Transformers to be reader-unfriendly, so I wanted to make a case for making an exception for ''[[Beast Wars: Uprising]]'' cameos. ''Uprising'' was an obscure barely-canon multi-continuity-drifting web serial which we are very unlikely to get further instalments of, and most of the relevant characters are similarly very deep pulls who will assuredly not be appearing again in future stories, and who will otherwise be stuck with tiny stub-pages forever. Most of these are Mini-Cons (here Micromasters) or bestial Transformers (here Protoformers), with a few boats or Constructicons from "[[Derailment]]". In many cases, I perceive ''Uprising'' as having tried to give these toys a hint of fiction where previously they had none at all, much like [[Ask Vector Prime]] before it. It's a very different phenomenon to most so-called "continuity transplants" we've seen in other series (such as with, say, [[Hot Shot (G1)]]), which are instead rooted in the popularity of those characters.

I think the problem here is that strictly speaking ''Uprising'' is a "Primax" continuity, sure, but it lifts dozens of characters (let alone concepts) unchanged from later stories. Slavishly hewing to that label when it's such an intertextual melting pot has resulted in this unfriendly setup. It feels like a fair decision made at the time (was [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive64#Derailment & Uprising pages|this discussion]] the one?) but in my opinion the wiki's policy kinda fails here. If we get rid of the (BWU) tag, the (G1) back-ports remaining (a minority!) will be for more significant characters, often adapted more radically. Here's the list of tiny pages we could be rid of, just like that:

*'''''Energon''''': [[Steam Hammer]], [[Doom-Lock (BWU)]], [[Avalon (BWU)]]
*'''''Cybertron''''': [[Wing Saber (BWU)]], [[Shortround (BWU)]]
*'''Movies''': [[Reckage]], [[Hatchet (BWU)]], [[Skipjack (BWU)]], [[Sea Spray (BWU)]], [[Fearswoop (BWU)]], [[Depthcharge (BWU)]], [[Rav (BWU)]], [[Evac (BWU)]], [[Drydock (BWU)]], [[Photon (BWU)]]
*'''''TransTech''''': [[Ego (BWU)]]
*'''''War for Cybertron''''': [[Contrail (BWU)]], [[Sigil (BWU)]], [[Gauntlet (BWU)]]
*'''''Prime''''': [[Ser-Ket (BWU)]], [[Rot Gut (BWU)]], [[Twinstrike (BWU)]], [[Budora (BWU)]], [[Darksteel (BWU)]], [[Vertebreak (BWU)]], [[Grimwing (BWU)]], [[Blackbeak (BWU)]], [[Judora (BWU)]]
*'''''Robots in Disguise''''': [[Bisk (BWU)]], [[Paralon (BWU)]], [[Quillfire (BWU)]], [[Ped (BWU)]], [[Psychobat (BWU)]], [[Springload (BWU)]], [[Snitch (BWU)]], [[Razorgrille (BWU)]]
*'''''Transformers Online''''': [[Astral Knight (BWU)]], [[Psychic Shortstop (BWU)]], [[Wrath Thunder (BWU)]], [[Deep Blue (BWU)]]
*'''Mini-Cons''': [[Synapse (BWU)]], [[Black Out]], [[Steamhammer (BWU)]], [[Flat-Out (BWU)]], [[Six-Speed (BWU)]], [[Zapmaster (BWU)]], [[Crumplezone (BWU)]], [[Cannon (BWU)]], [[Bulge (BWU)]], [[Bomb (BWU)]], [[Shot (BWU)]], [[Crack (BWU)]], [[Thunderblast (BWU)]], [[Wreckage (BWU)]], [[Bonecrusher (BWU)]], [[Broadside (BWU)]], [[Tankor (BWU)]], [[Caliburn (BWU)]], [[Torque (BWU)]], [[Bilge (BWU)]], [[Search (BWU)]], [[Refute (BWU)]], [[Kingbolt (BWU)]], [[Starcatcher (BWU)]], [[Clench (BWU)]], [[Run-Over (BWU)]], [[Deepdive (BWU)]], [[Astro-Sinker (BWU)]], [[Snow Cat (BWU)]], [[Draft (BWU)]], [[Screw (BWU)]], [[Aston (BWU)]] (deep sigh)
*'''Other''': [[Terrastar (BWU)]], [[Hyperborea (BWU)]], [[Alchemor (BWU)]], [[Minion of Unicron (BWU)]]

There's a handful of ''Uprising'' characters that need a (G1) page anyway for non-''Uprising'' reasons; I'm totally ambivalent about where the ''Uprising'' content ends up for these: [[Tidal Wave (G1)]], [[Override (BWU)]] (!), [[Cannonball (G1)]], [[Black-Out]], [[Halogen (G1)]], [[Knock Out (G1)]], [[Gaidora (BWU)]], [[Strongarm (G1)]], [[Thunderhoof (BWU)]], [[Twirl (G1)]].

Finally there's a few weird cases that would merit individual discussion but would probably just need to keep their own pages: [[Clobber (BWU)]], [[Apex (BWU)]], [[Offshoot (BWU)]], [[Cybaxx (BWU)]], [[Overbite (BWU)]], and [[Terrorcon (BWU)]].

Here is a ([https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&redirs=1&profile=all&search=%22from+the%22+%22continuity+families%22 probably non-exhaustive]) list of existing cases of multi-continuity drifting you should probably consider before weighing in:
* [[Buckethead]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#July 31, 2015|this Ask Vector Prime answer]])
* [[Drydock (TF 2010)]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#September 13, 2015|this answer]] which explicitly has him travel from one continuity to another)
* [[Drelnar Feh'd]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#September 17, 2015|this one]])
* [[Scorpia (G2)]], [[Autoceptor]], [[Deceptor]], and [[Kaltor]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#June 12, 2015|this one]])
* The [[Night Rescue Team]], [[Clear Skies Team]], [[Rapid Intervention Team]], [[Prehistoric Team]], [[Demolition Team]], [[Dirt Digger Team]], [[Heavy Load (Universe)]] and the [[Mobile Fortification Team]], and [[Detectas]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#September 28, 2015|this one]]).
**However, exceptions from these Mini-Con teams are [[Nightscream (Cybertron)|Nightscream]], [[Offshoot (Cybertron)|Offshoot]], [[Strongarm (Cybertron)|Strongarm]] and [[Knockdown (Cybertron)|Knockdown]], who all have separate (Cybertron) basis on the basis of receiving separate bios after being packed in with ''Cybertron'' Primus...
**...but then [[Liftor]] is all on a single page, despite his ''Classics'' bio.
**[[Snarl (Classics)|Snarl]], [[Sledge (Classics)|Sledge]], [[Wideload (Classics)|Wideload]], [[Knockdown (Classics)|Knockdown]], and [[Steel Wind]] already have ''Uprising'' content on their pages, but that makes sense as these were originally ''Classics'' guys.
* The [[Saurian Strike Team]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#September 28, 2015|this one]])
* The [[Minicon 8 Pack]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#July 24, 2015|this one]])
* The ''Dark of the Moon'' Mini-Cons [[Dualor (DOTM)]], [[Triceradon (DOTM)]], [[Rav (DOTM)]], and [[Catilla (DOTM)]], plus [[Ironlunge]], [[Reptix]], [[Sling (AOE)]], [[Gnashteeth]], [[Wedge Shape]], [[Brimstone (Universe)]], [[Apexus]], [[Gredator]], and [[Dragoyell]] (because of [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Facebook#August 13, 2015|this one]])
** Weirdly, we ''separately'' have a page for [[Rav (BWU)]], but Catilla has Unicron Trilogy, movie, and ''Uprising'' appearances covered all on the one page!
* [[Galadria]] and [[Ramak]] (because of [[Source:Transformers: Spacewarp's Log#December 5, 2015|this post]])
* Am I to understand that [[Wind Sheer (RID)]], [[Skyfire (RID)]] and the [[Dimensional Patrol]] each have just a single page because (RID) ''is'' part of the G1 continuity family sometimes...?
* And I understand that [[Primus Vanguard]] cameos just go on their original pages because that's a weird thing kinda outside of G1 anyway (at least from an in-universe perspective, if not a real-world one).
* ''Diaclone'' examples like [[Burn Out (Diaclone)]], [[Lift-Ticket (Diaclone)]], and [[Chifumi Takahashi]] have been discussed to death.
* [[Monsterous]] was retconned to originally be from an Aligned universe (in [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Guest column#October 21, 2015|this post]], though I can't actually find any mention of Uniend? EDIT: [[Source:Ask Vector Prime/Guest column#November 7, 2015|found it]]!)
* [[Primacron]] was apparently mentioned in ''[[Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II| The AllSpark Almanac II]]''.
* And [[Sentinel Supreme]] is just an Easter egg that everyone seemed to shrug about at the time.

To those who say the exception I'm proposing would be confusing, I submit these existing examples where we've apparently neglected to split something out as evidence that the only people this confuses are wiki editors like me wondering why they're not all that way. Maybe I'm just unaware of some aspect of the existing policy which accounts for all these cases? But is it really helpful to anyone to have a given toy's associated fiction squirrelled away somewhere separate you have to go into the disambiguation to find? We recently merged [[Chromhorn]] (another Sorenson job) on the basis that "There's literally no reason for these to be on different pages. They are the same thing." Can we not do the same for these Sorenson-penned cases that are basically going "look, the exact same guy shows up in multiple universes, alright?" And if the answer is no, will someone go through and split all these out? —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 18:27, 6 February 2023 (EST)

:I think my response to your earlier G1-import proposal still applies here: the more exceptions we make to our system for the sake of "accessibility", the harder the overall structure becomes to grok for a new reader, and thus ironically it all becomes ''less'' accessible. Why should ''Uprising'' Steel Jaw be at [[Steel Jaw]], but ''Uprising'' Bisk be at [[Bisk (RID)]]? Or, conversely, why should ''Uprising'' Steel Jaw be at [[Steeljaw (RID)]], but LBS Steeljaw be at [[Steel Jaw|Steeljaw (IDW)]]? Neither solution is good.
:As for the current list of exceptions, I'd argue everything you list from Buckethead to the DOTM Mini-Cons should probably be split. Galadria and Ramak are characters from outside media, so we don't split them across continuity lines. Wind Sheer and Skyfire have one page for consistency with the other RID guys. The source on Monsterous being Aligned is [[Source:Ask_Vector_Prime/Facebook#November_7.2C_2015|here]], but I would argue that's just giving an origin to the GoBot and so they should share a page anyway.
:Lastly - I object to you bringing the Chromhorn thing into this, as I don't think it's a fair comparison. Chromhorn wasn't making any exception to our categorisation system; it was one page saying "Chromhorn is a green variant of Insecticon from the UT" and another saying "Chromhorn Forest Type is a green variant of Insecticon from the UT", and the former was somehow a "repurposing" of the fictionless latter. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 20:24, 6 February 2023 (EST)
::Totally get the Steeljaw example—although it ''is'' crazy that we're currently disambiguating G1 wolf Steeljaw simply by [[Steel Jaw]]. You should post about the disambiguation tag policy change you suggested on Discord, I think a lot of people were thinking along similar lines there. Agree with your interpretation of the current policy as to which of the examples listed should be split and which shouldn't—although the more I think about the Primus Vanguard, the more I think those should technically be split too. While I guess the [[Time Warrior (AVP)|Time Warrior]]s are multiversal travellers like Drydock. RE: Chromhorn, I understand why it's technically different; I brought it up because I think it speaks to the tenor of ''Ask Vector Prime'' answers—in spirit, I think its aim was exactly the same as with the Mini-Con examples I've given.
::What do I mean by that? To match your Steeljaw example, from the opposite angle: say I'm your typical fan scrolling [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)]], and I click on, say, [[Dualor (DOTM)]], wondering if he's ever shown up in anything. In their current state, I get my answer immediately. With the proposed split for consistency, I instead get a page telling me that Dualor (DOTM) is a dinosaur Mini-Con from ''Dark of the Moon'', some info about the toy, ''maybe'' ending with an inscrutable note about how he was "repurposed" as an identical guy. Now, there's ''already'' an unrelated [[Dualor (Armada)]], so we'd need to make a disambiguation page. We can see this already by looking at [[Snow Cat (Universe)]], which is barren (the very scenario AVP so often tried to address!), and doesn't even admit to the existence of [[Snow Cat (BWU)]] aside from a general Snow Cat disambiguation tag. In some existing cases like [[Steamhammer (BWU)]], we've mirrored a toy writeup, which needs upkeep in parallel; in others, like Snow Cat, we're asking the user to visit the other page to read about the toy ''anyway''. To my mind, this is inarguably less accessible. I don't understand arguments made about accessibility here which are predicated on readers having learned editing policy to begin with, and I don't think this proposal would actually make it any harder to learn the system.
::I regret not listing out all the individual members of those Mini-Con teams above, to better communicate the sheer number of pages that would need to be made (and pages that would need to be renamed, in case of conflicts) to create this inconvenience in service of a rule we've already been ignoring without issue. Nobody wants to do this work, and I think it's less that no-one cares, and more that some people think it'd actually make the wiki worse, and the rest don't particularly think it'd make the wiki better.
::What about just making an exception for Mini-Cons/Micromasters? I've talked about ''Uprising'', but obviously the vast majority of cases that theoretically need splitting aren't from ''Uprising'' at all. Could probably even do a generic template like "X exists in multiple continuity families, and is a Micromaster/Maximal/Predacon in those without Mini-Cons". Thus your Steeljaws and Bisks and Overrides go unchanged, no problems or ambiguity there! —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 17:09, 7 February 2023 (EST)
:Once upon a time, I probably would have pushed for something like this, but where we are now: I am not a fan of any push towards treating something differently based on how "relevant" something is or not. It goes against the very spirit this wiki was founded on, because that is what was happening to the Wikipedia coverage of Transformers where they were just getting rid of things wholesale because of "relevancy." I can understand the basic point behind this, but I feel that doing so would set a bad precedent that could be exploited in the future.
:I'd be fine with splitting most of these out. I've said it before elsewhere but by and large a lot of the inconsistencies were largely the result of different contributors adding stuff or splitting stuff without a general consensus, and they haven't been cleaned up afterwards. Also, a minor note, but the Liftor thing was mainly cause no one noticed at the time until I wrote up about the profile years after the fact. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:26, 6 February 2023 (EST)
::If I gave the impression "relevancy" was the main thrust of my argument here, I didn't mean to! Like, it goes both ways—would we be merging because ''Uprising'' is so irrelevant that we shouldn't devote all these random stub pages to it, ''or'' are we merging because it's sufficiently relevant that we shouldn't be hiding that content in stub pages nobody visits? Either is true! I'm arguing for convenience and clarity. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 17:09, 7 February 2023 (EST)
::: This definitely feels like the strongest argument to the merge in my mind. The wiki is no stranger to niche pages, pages for nameless, fictionless, toyless nonentities. But I believe these fictionless toys and toyless fiction which are really the same thing would be a richer niche page for the merges. [[User:Bumblebee2000|Bumblebee2000]] ([[User talk:Bumblebee2000|talk]]) 20:36, 7 February 2023 (EST)
::: I really think that once again, this overrates the number of people who would be confused by this, and underrates the number of people who would be able to figure out where to go if they wish to find the information. Like, I hate to do the whole "I was able to figure it out" thing but I was a small child with a single-digit age when I first discovered the wiki and I was able to figure out pretty quick why it was laid out the way it was. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement; I think there's a lot of cases in which the way we have things set up now is kind of ridiculous. But in this particular case, I don't really see how merging things would be any more convenient than just leaving them the way they are and splitting out the cases that we never got around to. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:52, 7 February 2023 (EST)

Just found some more pages that would need splitting under current policy: [[Crystal Widow]], [[Seawave]], [[Cradon]], [[Freefall (Kre-O)]], [[Liftoff]], and [[Epsilon Holdings]]. All due to ''Uprising'' and ''The Allspark Almanac''. Really hoping someone can propose a solution here that doesn't involve creating a billion pages and disambigs. --[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 09:24, 18 February 2023 (EST)
:We don't split businesses/locations/organizations, so Epsilon Holdings isn't one we need to consider. Kre-O doesn't really occupy a continuity family in our organization and I would just split the rest, especially Crystal Widow. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:28, 18 February 2023 (EST)

Noticed the ''[[Transformers: Earth Wars| Earth Wars]]'' stub templates on Mini-Con pages for [[Wheeljack Kunai]] and [[Bido]]. The game had previously added [[Gabu]], [[Zori]], [[Baru]], [[Bashbreaker]], [[Windstrike]], and [[Tricerashot]]. Following policy, these should ''all'' be split—see [[Giza (POTP)]] and [[Giza (Prime)]], although to be fair they're not the same animal at least. As always, I think the fiction for those toys should go on the pages for those toys. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 12:39, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

Just finished going through documenting the preliminary bios for the [[Night Rescue Team]], [[Predator Attack Team]], and [[Mini-Con Council of Sages]], from when the ''Classics'' Mini-Cons were still going to be released as ''Cybertron'' two-packs, and it occurs to me that if ''all'' of those guys end up getting duplicate pages, the Unicron Trilogy pages would be where that information should probably end up. Right now it's all a bit of a mess, as some of those characters have (Cybertron) pages via the Primus bonus-pack-in, some don't, and others had their names changed from their would've-been ''Cybertron'' incarnations anyway. I've generally tried to stick to linking to the existing pages rather than redlinking—naturally I remain convinced that it'd be for the best if we didn't distinguish between ''Classics'' and ''Cybertron'' at all in this case and just kept all the relevant information for each of those Mini-Cons on one page per; I think [[Liftor]] is proof that this is in fact perfectly fine and much, much less of a headache for readers. See whatever the hell is going on with the page for the [[Night Rescue Team]], which names the patrol car as "[[Strongarm (Classics)|Strongarm]]/[[Strongarm (Cybertron)|Strongarm]]" as though that's something which makes any sense at all. Tangentially, I also reckon the material from these early bios (which evidently made it out via the official Hasbro website ''somehow'') should probably just be written up in fiction sections proper, along the lines of, say, cancelled Dreamwave issues...? —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 18:03, 23 April 2023 (EDT)
:The Cybertron Primus pack-in guys had bios written by Sepelak and Troop (who also wrote the bios for the Classics guys) that deliberately made them different characters for the Club website with little in common besides their physical appearances. It's not a case of "old rules" at all, it was something specific done at the time. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 18:28, 23 April 2023 (EDT)

==Wikia links still around?==
https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Smelting_pool&direction=prev&oldid=109505
Are other archived "intermediate / obsolete" edit pages still pointing to Wikia? Or have they been somehow neutralized? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:52, 25 May 2023 (EDT)
:Not exactly sure what you're asking? I mean, the link is literally part of the text in that edit, so it wouldn't be removed. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:25, 25 May 2023 (EDT)
::Is that page (and presumably any other intermediate edit page from those years) still directing search engines to Wikia? Some years ago it was seen as pretty urgent that every last such link be removed, regardless of location. Not "gone from current pages," gone from ''everything''. As I recall, there were even refs to Wikia pre-struck-out on pages so people could only see them in mid-edit, but they were still boosting Wikia's rankings, and an admin had to create a bot to scrape them out of everywhere. If they still persist on hundreds of intermediate edit pages from those years, should those pages be totally erased, as they would be when randos insert porn or hate speech here? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:10, 26 May 2023 (EDT)
:::Historic page revisions are not indexed by Google, so they won't boost Wikia rankings. Those links will be present on any revisions before March 2008, as those revisions are from a backup imported from when the site was on Wikia. We still do have some Wikia links on live pages ([[Miscolorings based on the Generation 1 cartoon]] is an example) but those links will be marked nofollow as all external links are, so they should, in theory, not be boosting Wikia's ranking either. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:04, 26 May 2023 (EDT)

== ROTB being a reboot - what should we do with that? ==

I don't necessarily hold an opinion on this issue, but according to an interview with the director of ROTB, Rise of the Beasts will be a reboot of the live-action movie franchise. Will this affect how existing articles are grouped and written? Or does the wiki just consider it a case of authorial intent? ([https://news.tfw2005.com/2023/05/27/transformers-rise-of-the-beasts-director-steven-caple-jr-confirms-rotb-set-in-a-rebooted-universe-484900 source]) [[User:Gigirassy|Gigirassy]] ([[User talk:Gigirassy|talk]]) 16:19, 27 May 2023 (EDT)
:The wiki is intentionally waiting for the movie's official release to make a stand on the matter. Regardless, even if the movie is a reboot it will not affect the wiki as much as you may be thinking it will; both movie series will simply be considered as two different continuities that are still part of the same continuity family overall (just like the multitude of G1 universes out there that are all in the same family). What may or may not happen is some characters may get splitted pages depending on if there's enough evidence for that, but for now all we can do is just wait and see. -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 16:56, 27 May 2023 (EDT)

== Adaptation notes ==

Can we figure out a way to format this information that isn't an ugly and intrusive note that fucks up the formatting? Like, convert them into storylinks or references. Collapsible notes. Something. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:06, 21 June 2023 (EDT)
:(also probably take a weed whacker to the insane number of images people try to stuff into those film sections but that's another discussion) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:09, 21 June 2023 (EDT)
::I second that. Though we would also have to find a place to put the extra information those notes sometimes provide about how the adaptation differs from the source material. Like how [[Optimus Prime (Movie)#Transformers film|Optimus Prime]]'s notes on the 07 movie mention he kills Barricade in the adaptations when that doesn't happen in the movie itself. Or the very recent example of how ROTB [[Wheeljack (ROTB)|Wheeljack]] appears [[Mission at the Museum|in a book based entirely on the half of the movie he wasn't supposed to appear in]]. So how will we deal with that? -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 16:40, 21 June 2023 (EDT)

Against this. When it comes to an informational wiki, utility should be a higher priority than aesthetic taste. Speaking of aesthetics, however… [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 17:24, 21 June 2023 (EDT)
:We can be informative without haphazardly shoving "hey, here's some inconsequential adaptations you likely don't care about" into readers' faces. Not all information is created equal, as we've already established by hiding any VAs that the great majority of readers don't care about. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:41, 21 June 2023 (EDT)

I'd be against this. The notes make it clear that one thing is an adaptation of another, allow differences to be described succinctly without wholesale repetition of an entire story section, and I honestly think a mass of stoylyinks for every movie character in the first 3 Bay films after their write-up would be far more visually obtrusive and difficult to parse than the note that's already there, for example.[[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 22:31, 21 June 2023 (EDT)
:I'm gonna more or less agree with the above. Storylinks are ''absolutely'' a bad idea once you get beyond, like, two in a row. And I really don't feel like there's ever going to be enough adaptations of any one thing to justify a whole template, where "voice actors in a dozen languages" and "holy crap they redecoed/retooled/rereleased this toy THIS MANY TIMES" certainly can get hugely bulky. And honestly, if they're not a huge list, I like the easy discoverability of keeping them in a note below; hiding them whiffs of "we should de-prioritize the coloring books and not-current media on character pages" that we rejected from the get-go. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:56, 22 June 2023 (EDT)

== Images and formatting ==

Here’s something that baffles me; at least far back as the MP announcement of the Trainbots, there’s been a push by some to remove images from articles for reasons that mostly elude me. I agree that a lot of our older writeups have images that aren’t good, but what I don’t get is the removal of them from sections that only have one image. Sure, a lot of the time it’s for characters that have very minor roles in something, but I’ve always thought that McFeely’s way of making articles (by getting the best possible image of each character in every section whenever possible) is the gold standard for how we make articles. On a loosely related note; I’m not convinced by Sipher’s recent push to align images to the right; I think the alternating thing we usually have is much cleaner (aside from in toy sections). [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 17:29, 21 June 2023 (EDT)
: Opening a section with a left-justified image almost invariably fucks up the normal "flow" of how your eyes move when you reach the end of a line: you move down and ''left'' to the next line. Most of the time, left-justified images at the top of the section push that next line of text to the ''right'' of the header. It may look "better" if you unfocus and just look at the page as a blur, but if you're actually ''reading'' the text, it's a subtle but very there stumbler. If it's a section where there's a "voice actors" bit or a note template ''above'' the image where the end of that is ''definitely'' going to end up beyond the rightmost border of the image, that's fair. ''Every'' image doesn't have to be on the right. Alternating is fine within longer sections. But opening with left should be used sparingly and judiciously. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:24, 21 June 2023 (EDT)

==Two things sandboxed a while ago maybe we might consider==
*[[User:M Sipher/Sandbox:ToysBullets]]
*[[User:M Sipher/sandbox:ToypageAltmodesAdded]]
I mean I'm not gonna lie, these are both in the "oh my grodd so many pages" realm, and worse, they're not something we can really get a bot to do. But, Iunno, something to consider. 
The insignia bullet point thing on individual character pages, only so many characters have toys across multiple factions (most would have G1/G2 variants), so this doesn't feel as "important" an addition, but, well. Could be useful. Adding altmodes to the toyline page listings, however, I think there's a decent case for, especially when dealing with obscure toy-only characters in lines loaded to the gills with toys. It'll certianly help the "man I remember I had this cool toy what was its name" searches. And it involves tweaking considerably fewer pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:09, 27 June 2023 (EDT)
:I'm in favor of the first from a readability standpoint. It just looks better. On the alt modes, I worry it might open the door to edit skirmishes on some of the more vague vehicle modes out there (thinking specifically of Devcon that just came out, or things that are just indeterminate like Cybertron Menasor or Protoform Optimus/Starscream), that just "Cybertronic car/jet/whatever" isn't a common term people outside the Wiki would really think to search, and how specific we'd need to get a la "truck" versus "longnose truck" versus "Peterbilt 379 truck". Hard to call, in my opinion.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 23:37, 27 June 2023 (EDT)
::The bullet points hit me a little weird at first but I could get used to them, I think it's a neat idea. And I can see the inclusion of alt modes in toy pages as something useful, though no doubt a lot of pages would have to be slightly rearranged to make room for them. Regardless, I'd gladly give a hand with some of the editing if either one gets approved. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 09:46, 28 June 2023 (EDT)
::: RE: altmodes on toyline pages... As far as "arguments" go, you get those ''anyway''. I think for these pages we can afford a bit of looseness ("red Lamborghini" for 1984 Sideswipe since there's a lot of sports cars (and two Lambos) in that line/assortment, "blue sports car" for Cyb Hot Shot since there are fewer "sports cars" in that line), giving enough for a quick ID'ing. Spacing... yeah, this will stretch the pages vertically a bit, but like, that's generally fine if the space has ''information'' in it. Plus it will likely mean we can add another pic to the right-hand side of many sections, letting us give a few more examples. And it'll beef up the absolutely anemic sections slightly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 01:53, 29 June 2023 (EDT)
:So, anyone got any objections to these, other than "holy hell that's a lot of manual work"? If anything, it'd also be a good excuse to go in and find out what entries are in need of some sprucing up and getting to today's standards... properly sorting the features into cohesive paragraphs, moving release dates to bullet points, trimming excess or filling out light writeups, making sure links to other toys have the proper anchors, etc. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:32, 4 July 2023 (EDT)
::The faction symbols look neat, no issue there. ''Really'' dislike the alt-mode descriptions on the toyline pages; it's a huge amount of visual noise for very little informational gain, not even to mention the actual work involved. I honestly think they would be very error-prone as a rule, or at the very least lead to some extremely tiresome debates—for example, you've labelled Soundwave/Sideways as "Cybertronian" jets, but my understanding is that they're not Cybertronians at all...? Even until pretty recently, I often find myself clicking links on toy pages only to find that they've been broken by the epidemic of "/toys" splits (and then the subsequent merges now that that's being corrected!); so far as I'm concerned, if you're consistently able to click a link on a toyline page and immediately jump to a write-up with an actual image of the toy in question, that'd be far more useful than a brief indicator of alt-mode, especially considering most readers are going to know that Starscream probably turns into "a jet". Something else this has brought to mind for me, though—for the ''Cybertron'' toyline, could be nice to have extra faction bullets for the various Cyber Key types they came with! —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 14:53, 6 July 2023 (EDT)
::: Late to the party, but I've seen some of the faction bullets have been implemented in some character articles and I really like how they look. I think it will also help in the long run with figures that are marketed as a certain faction on Hasbro's websites or packaging, but not on the toy itself or utilized in any fiction. Like, for example: ''Studio Series'' Sentinel Prime. His packaging features a Decepticon insignia, while his instructions feature an Autobot insignia, which means the toy is marketed as both factions, even if both insignia are absent on the toy itself. The alt-mode descriptors, on the other hand, are a no from me, better to leave those kinds of specifics to the toy write ups themselves, as some toy listings in toyline articles are already pretty cluttered as it is, due to all of the characters included in some sets. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 01:20, 5 August 2023 (EDT)
::::I'm in favor of both. I think the faction bullets look neat and visually appealing, and I wouldn't mind helping with the edits. I also think that the alt-mode listings would be very helpful, and while I agree that it could create a lot of visual noise, I think it could be lessened by some formatting alterations. In particular, making the alt-mode descriptors (small) and/or on a separate line, and having fewer columns in each row so they aren't so scrunched. Played around with a couple variations here: [[User:Ashendawn/sandbox:ToypageAltmodesAdded]] --[[User:Ashendawn|Ashendawn]] ([[User talk:Ashendawn|talk]]) 15:07, 2 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::I'm quite coming to like the faction symbols, but here's another vote against the alt descriptions. In addition to suddenly making the pages denser and busier... a lot of them are subjective and generic, and it will definitely be noticeable to have multiple generic vehicle types listed so close together. In that last sandbox, "missile truck" and "missile tank" are one on top of the other, and what's really the difference between an "off-road vehicle" and a "military buggy"? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:17, 2 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::I feel like that's REALLY getting into push-glasses-up-nose um-actually-ing and missing the entire point of the descriptors. The point is not to give a superprecise What They Very Definitely Are, but a general guide to people who don't actually remember every single toy's name and are thinking "who was that small blue truck?" while looking at the toyline pages. It's for the people who are not hyper-versed in Everything Transformers. It's for the same reasons we implemented "Major (character name here)"s on the disambiguation pages. Generalities is kind of the ''aim''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:06, 2 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::::But the descriptors aren't "small blue truck." None of them list either color or size. Instead we see "Cybertronian space cruiser", "Cybertronian jet", and "Cybertronian shuttle" directly adjacent to each other. The amount of space we reasonably have available, and the undeniable vagueness of many TF toys, makes me think our setup isn't the right one for helping people identify unknown / barely remembered toys. And then there's the question of how someone with an unknown / barely remembered toy would know to go to the right series in the first place. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:21, 4 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::::I do think listing the most predominant color(s) could be helpful. Shortening the "Cybertronian [x]" to "Cyber[x]" when possible, or omitting it (in the case of the space cruiser for example, since those don't actually exist outside of sci-fi) could help. As far as the usefulness factor goes--at least in my personal experience--as I've been working on identification of my spouse's childhood toys, we're usually able to identify the era but don't know the name of the specific toy (especially in the case of UT and and toy-only movie guys). Being able to control+F "green" and/or "jet" to find them would have saved me a lot of time. --[[User:Ashendawn|Ashendawn]] ([[User talk:Ashendawn|talk]]) 11:58, 4 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::::You're getting incredibly lost in vicious pedantry over something that's still in the process. You're acting like the proposal was for something EXACTLY unchanged from what was presented as a prototype, that still (and always would) be tweakable to see what worked better. Part of proposing this is to see if the wording and exact formatting could be tweaked, and other people have added ideas to it that I think really improve on things. The phrasing can be changed, and actually has been in the working example. ("RE: "Cybertronian", we could go with "tech" or "sci-fi" instead if we need that kind of qualifier or for space issues.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:41, 4 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::Oh and I think making the descriptors small text helps a lot, but not wild about changing the number of columns; in most cases that'd leave some real MASSIVE gaps. Brevity will help alleviate width/clutter concerns. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:08, 2 October 2023 (EDT)

== Alternators/Binaltech headers on toy pages ==

It feels like something from the old days of the wiki that has become outdated by our modern standards. Binaltech is not its own toyline, it's just the Takara version of Alternators, as reflected by both lines [[Transformers: Alternators|sharing the same page]]. So I propose we stop using "Alternators/Binaltech" headers on toy pages. Keep "Binaltech" on characters that ''only'' have Takara toys and standardize to just "Alternators" on all pages with either only Hasbro toys or both Hasbro and Takara toys. To use similar examples, we only have "[[Fortress Maximus (RID)#Car Robots|Car Robots]]" and "[[Lockdown (RID)#Adventure|Adventure]]" headers on Takara-only toy pages, while all other pages have "Robots in Disguise (2001)" and "Robots in Disguise (2015)" regardless of if they have Takara toys or not. There's no "Robots in Disguise/Car Robots" or "Robots in Disguise/Adventure" headers. So can we please start using the same standard to Alternators? --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 14:58, 29 June 2023 (EDT)

== Energon Universe coverage ==

With Void Rivals #2 due out next week, I think we need to start a discussion about how much coverage we give non-TF issues in the Energon Universe. This isn't like IDW where the shared universe element came years later; we're starting out on the ground floor, with Transformers part of the universe from the very first released issue. It's going to be closely involved with all the comics going forward, so I think we need to figure out if we're going to cover everything, and if not, what qualifies for coverage. For example, it sounds like Energon is going to be a recurring element in both Void Rivals and G.I. Joe. Is that alone enough to qualify, or do there need to be actual Transformers characters? I think we need to start asking these sorts of questions so we can figure out the scope of our coverage. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:39, 10 July 2023 (EDT)
:I'm fine with covering everything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 23:42, 10 July 2023 (EDT)
:I am also in favor of covering it all, the universe has established immediately that Transformers seem to be intrinsic to it, and this way we can keep all reading to one wiki. [[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 23:46, 10 July 2023 (EDT)
::Agreed. They are presenting it as a shared, intrinsically connected universe - and yeah it's called the Energon Universe so that's very clearly transformery to us unless energon moves on from here to be a generic hasbroverse term, which we doubt. [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 23:52, 10 July 2023 (EDT)
:Yeah. I think "cover everything" is the best approach to begin with, and then if we want to discuss splitting things off at a later date we can do that. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 00:00, 11 July 2023 (EDT)
:Nothing against a "cover everything" either. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 00:53, 12 July 2023 (EDT)

==Stock image sizes==
Okay, I wanted to bring this up before going on a revertathon but... is there ANY need for HD stock imagery here? Frankly, 4000x2000 images at nearly a meg each seems like absolute overkill and just adding incrementally to server load (good god various Optimuses' toy pages are bad enough as it is, we prolly shouldn't be doing things to make that worse). We just need images big enough to be clear, we're not here to archive print-quality images. I've been sticking to a general 600px vertical with the odd 700px for bigger/more involved toys when doing pics, and like, that sure seems more than fine. Once you hit 1000px it feels real excessive. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 04:01, 3 August 2023 (EDT)

== Video game cameos ==

{{collist|2|
*[[Kunai]]
*[[Sawtooth (G1)]]
*[[Tricerashot (G1)]]
*[[Windstrike (G1)]]
*[[Zori (G1)]]
*[[Bashbreaker (G1)]]
*[[Baru (G1)]]
*[[Bido (G1)]]
*[[Gabu (G1)]]}}

I'm not seeing the point in being persnickety about continuity families when it comes to mobile game cameos, especially when said game already has established characters from other continuity families. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:52, 6 August 2023 (EDT)
:If you bothered to do some due diligence, you would know these guys are selectable for individual play, not "cameos". As long as our continuity family policy remains in place, they merit pages just as ''Prime'' Knock Out's G1 transplant does. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:56, 6 August 2023 (EDT)
::Dude, they're support units without any real role in the story (which, again, includes multiversal travelers already). That's cameo level to me. It's not comparable to Knock Out. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:04, 6 August 2023 (EDT)
:::Late, but they're definitely not cameos. The COMBAT bots frequently have their own dialogue and play a part in the event storylines. They're probably ''exactly'' the same situation as Knock Out, who so far as I can tell was introduced without any fanfare as to whether he's a native to the ''Earth Wars'' universe or a dimension-hopper. The same even appears true of "Breakdown Prime"! In the past, when characters from other continuities have shown up, there's always been lots of hullabaloo in the dialogues explaining where they've come from. It's silly to make definitive claims one way or another until we successfully scrape the scripts from the last couple of years and can read everything, so under current wiki policy unless someone can produce dialogues where Windstrike says "whoa, this Earth Wars universe is crazy, not at all like my home reality!" we just have to assume they're G1 versions of those characters and give them separate pages. Personally, I would actually ''agree'' that it's really silly to have created all of these tiny stub pages for these so-called "continuity transplants", and even brought up the fact earlier on the Portal that nobody had seemed to consider it problematic when they were all just lumped in on the Aligned pages, but if this is how it's gotta be then someone who feels strongly about the split oughta commit to having the coverage on the G1 pages, not the Aligned pages, and disambiguate between them properly. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 08:14, 25 August 2023 (EDT)

== Subcategory trimming ==

Looking at some of our character categories, such as the subcats under [[:Category:Generation 1 Autobots]] and [[:Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]], I'm starting to wonder if all of these are strictly necessary. I think there's merit to having categories for whole franchises, but I'm unsure whether we necessarily need to add more categories for inclusion in specific media or toylines, like "G1 cartoon Autobots" or "G1 toy Decepticons"; after a while, it starts to feel a little excessive and perhaps even counterproductive. Thoughts? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:44, 23 August 2023 (EDT)
:On the one hand, with "G1" being basically Brobdingnagian in scope, I think media/toyline subcategorization is definitely important... but I'm unsold in either direction on if the Autobot/Decep split in said subcats are necessary. I ''will'' put forward the argument ''for'' the subcategorization that categories are a very helpful method of quick-checking "who's in group x", especially with something as massive as "the Marvel comics cast". Looking for obscure comic Decepticons to maybe feature in something is a lot easier when you don't have to fish through a list that also includes every obscure comic-only Autobot. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:53, 23 August 2023 (EDT)
:: I"m good for keeping "Generation 1 cartoon" and "Marvel comic" categories the way we do with Dreamwave, IDW1, and IDW2 characters (although I think that the Marvel category should be merged with the preexisting [[:Category:Regeneration One Decepticons]] into a single "Marvel Comics continuity" category). "Generation 1 toy" seems... less necessary to me. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 19:31, 23 August 2023 (EDT)
::: The [[:Category:Generation 1 Seekers]] and [[:Category:Generation 1 Aerialbots]] categories are good and useful categories to me, as the subgroup is the main thing, in these cases (IMO), and the subgroups have been divided on the franchise/continuity-family level.--[[User:Karanseraph|Karanseraph]] ([[User talk:Karanseraph|talk]]) 12:25, 25 August 2023 (EDT)
I would definitely dump the Regeneration One categories. It's just a miniseries, and not a very impactful one at that. Plus, 99% of those characters are already in Marvel G1 anyway. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:30, 25 August 2023 (EDT)

== Wiki Format ==

I have a question regarding the set-up of this site. It is one of the only ones I've seen not using fandom and has a nice set up. The Gundam fandom users are talking about maybe moving off of fandom, and this site has shown promising to be a potential new site if a similar format can be created but changed to be Gundam style. I know of someone who "runs" the wiki, and would like to possibly get in contact with them to look at this and see if its plausible replacement for that. If anyone can do something like that, or if it's not possible to use this format like that, then please lmk, thnx! (PS: I'm on the discord, GrootimusPrime, if that would be easier contact as that's also how I'll probably get the Gundam wiki spokesperson to see.) [[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]]) 11:29, 7 September 2023 (EDT)
:The skin we use is just one of the standard skins that comes with Mediawiki (Monobook) with some styling applied. If they have someone who is expert at tweaking stylesheets, they should be fine doing that, though there are other standard skins they could also look at tweaking. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:05, 7 September 2023 (EDT)
::Alright thanks, Ill look into that and relay to Iserlohn. Thanks! [[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]])
What hosting service is used? While I'm not quite sure of preferences of admin, I'm just looking into cheaper hosts that can run this wiki to be good and useable for all editors, as they span most of the world, centering around Asia and America. (PS. If anyone knows Fandom gund-wiki users, please keep this on the low-down, we are attempting to keep this relatively low-key as there has been problems between ours and their teams. Thanks.) [[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]]) 09:55, 12 September 2023 (EDT)
:We're hosted by Linode. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:04, 12 September 2023 (EDT)

== Include these? ==

I feel like on fiction related pages, we should include major event sections (so readers don't have to spend 10h scouring the page for info). And maybe we also should indicate some characters' debut (and also indicate when it is the first time a char appears on that continuity, like hot rod debuting in the movie, then state which ep he debuted in the show proper, and so on so forth).[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 19:26, 7 September 2023 (EDT)
:I feel like this would be more character based, as there are subcategories, mostly of continuities and such, but then major events would typically be character based, as outside of debuts, most characters major events are different than others and arent shared.[[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]]) 10:15, 12 September 2023 (EDT)

== Gundam ==
So I've noticed a few references to Gundam here, and a few important people mentioned regarding it, but the links all go to the wiki page which isn't really that helpful, so I was wondering if I could possibly make a new page for it similar to like the go-bots where it gives a gist of it and directs to mentions of people related to it in here? [[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]]) 09:26, 21 September 2023 (EDT)
:No. Wiki pages are only made for other properties when they cross over ''directly'' with Transformers. Just sharing tropes or staff isn't enough. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 09:33, 21 September 2023 (EDT)
::Then second question, where does one email Hasbro to angrily complain about the fact there hasn't been a crossover on the most crossover-able series ever. Literally they are perfect for each other, and if Gundam can crossover with hello kitty I think tformers would be good.[[User:SkywarpsTwin|SkywarpsTwin]] ([[User talk:SkywarpsTwin|talk]]) 09:37, 21 September 2023 (EDT)
:::This isn't the place for this. Talk pages are for meaningful discussions on how to improve the wiki, not for fandom bantering. -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 09:48, 21 September 2023 (EDT)

== Fandom Terminology: #maccadam ==
So on the Fandom Page we have a page for fandom terminology that became official and we also have a Category for Fan Terminology, right? 
Maybe it could be useful to have an actual page dedicated to widespread fanmade terms aswell in order to make it easier to get into the fandom? 
Similarly to the Page for "Ruined FOREVER", which is essentially also just a list for common (ridiculous) opinions so to speak. 
For example the #maccadam tag is mostly used for Fanart on platforms like Twitter, Instagram etc. but looking it up on Google leads you to the actual character and it takes some time to find an actual explanation what the tag actually means (it was supposed to make it easier for fans to differentiate between Bayverse and Non-Bayverse Content. Interesting way to split the fandom y'all.). 
The Fanart community is really big for Transformers and given that Fan fiction even has its own page I feel it to also be logical to include the Fanart-Tag somewhere. 
As an alternative, the tag could also just be mentioned in Maccadam's wiki entry in the Trivia section, but yeah that's why I'm here, to wonder and ask before adding info on the fandom. 
[[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 17:54, 20 October 2023 (EDT)

== Remastering the Wiki's logo and background ==
This proposal is to recreate the current logo and background of the wiki in nicer quality and colors that are more accurate to the Transformers Animated logo.

It would NOT be a redesign of the wiki's skin, I'm talking about simply replacing the current files for ones in a nicer resolution. This would also be more convenient to any social media publication that requires the use of the logo, which has become a running issue due to the unavailability of a high quality file of it.

To elaborate on the colors, the current logo and background have noticeably darker and purpler shades of blue than the Animated logo, so ideally the new versions would correct that.

As an added value, having newer files whose PSD/AI files are available could open the doors to variations for Holidays such as Christmas or Halloween, which had been done in the past. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 16:54, 26 October 2023 (EDT)

:I think that it would be a nice idea. Does this also mean remastering the headers of the links (The "Navigation", "Search", "Toolbox" and "Advertisement" thingies.) on the sides of each webpage? [[User:JJ2104|JJ2104]] ([[User talk:JJ2104|talk]]) 18:29, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
:That is a possibility, yes. It will depend on how well they look alongside the hypothetical new Logo and Background. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 23:49, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
:I'd say this is a no-brainer and probably something we should be doing every few years. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:13, 28 October 2023 (EDT)

== Up button ==

As per a request, I added a floating up button that will take you to the top of the page you're on. It should only appear once you've scrolled a little way down a page, and will take you back to the top when clicked. I'm adding this section here so people can offer feedback. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:34, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
:I see it when I load a page and it goes away when I scroll down. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:42, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
::It might require doing a shift-reload or whatever the equivalent is in your browser, as stuff can get cached. If that doesn't fix it, let me know which browser you're using, as it might be browser specific. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:47, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
::Gotcha, works now. (Using Chrome.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:56, 27 October 2023 (EDT)

:Oh that's nice. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:12, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
:I like it! -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 22:09, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
:I personally find the new up button a bit distracting (I think just because it's a large button placed in the middle of the important content part, though I understand we don't have unlimited screen real estate here) but I can see its purpose. I like the red arrow which matches well with the GO! buttons, gives it cohesion and prevents it from clashing with the rest of the site aesthetically too much. Personally blocking it in uBlock Origin for now myself just because it's not too useful for me personally, but I can imagine a quick way to the top being a valuable addition. --[[User:ShyAndroid|ShyAndroid]] ([[User talk:ShyAndroid|talk]]) 23:57, 27 October 2023 (EDT)
::I can kinda see the opinion of it being distracting, what with it being a bright red object appearing in the top-middle of the screen. Were it off to the side like, say, on the top-right or bottom-right corner of the screen, it'd be more conveniently out of the way. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 02:44, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::Definitely a great UX improvement. As to workshopping, perhaps moving it to the left of the screen where we maintain a big ol bar of negative space anyway? Presuming we can set it only to appear once the reader is below the bottom banner ad to avoid overlap, of course. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 03:30, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
::::I dunno, if we're gonna move it to either side, maybe the right near the scroll bar would be better and more intuitive, people're more likely to look in that direction if they wanna jump (and if this works on mobile, which I've not checked, even better since mobile scroll bars ''suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck''). I think the center is fine tho. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 03:58, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::Nah, having it in the centre looks hideous. It'd be better off on one of the sides - I'd say the left side, under the banner ad in the negative space column, but the right side could work if it doesn't block the edit buttons or anything like that. [[User:BattleBlade|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade|talk]]) 10:36, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::: I say the right because putting it on the left would make it appear over all the various sidebars we have over there. We don't have anything on the right side, so it would have plenty of negative space to hover over out of the way. Put it either in the top-right corner or the bottom-right corner. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:05, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Again, going left justified is only being discussed ''under the condition'' we can prevent it from appearing until the user is below the sidebars. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:20, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::::I think it's appearing way too early and on pages that are too short. Right now it's hovering there right after the sidebar hits the top of my screen, where scrolling back to the top is laughably easy. Also, having it in the middle doesn't seem readability friendly – I clicked through to this section of discussion from Recent Changes, and having an arrow obscuring the body text of the section I was directly linked to seems like a bad idea. I'm seconding the need for it to be somewhere less obtrusive – preferably the blue space on the left once one scrolls past the sidebars/ad. —[[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 13:31, 28 October 2023 (EDT) P.S. it seems weird to have it on editing/backstage pages??
:::::::I agree with the opinion that the mostly empty space on the lower left is the best solution, appearing after all the actual stuff there is out of the way. Articles short enough to not go past the useful part of the left side benefit little from its appearance since the left sidebars aren't all too long, and it's a convenient spot where it wouldn't block anything else. While I can see where people discussing placement in the lower right are coming from, if we can get it appearing after all of the important things, I'd be in full support of its placement in the lower left. [[User:ShyAndroid|ShyAndroid]] ([[User talk:ShyAndroid|talk]]) 14:26, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::::How far down before it appears is easily adjustable - at the moment it's set to 200dp, so making it only appear further down is just a matter of changing that to a larger number. I'll tweak to lower left and we'll see how we go. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 17:15, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
::::::::I'm going to add another vote for "it's super distracting on desktop and appears when I've barely even started to scroll down at my resolution." -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 17:38, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::I've moved it to bottom left so it'll be out of the way and also only appear once you've scrolled past the stuff in the left column. You may need to hit reload to see the change, as caching can be aggressive. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 17:59, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:::::I would prefer that it appear ''only'' on mobile if it has to appear at all. When I browse webpages on my PC, I can just hit the Home key to jump to the top. [[User:Bag of Magic Food|Bag of Magic Food]] ([[User talk:Bag of Magic Food|talk]]) 15:14, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:Since a lot of users on the Discord were confused by its appearance, it does seem that its function isn't immediately obvious at first glance, so we're implementing a new version with "GO to top!" written below it for clarity. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:01, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
::Oh wow that looks perfect now imo! --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 18:09, 28 October 2023 (EDT)
:For me (Chrome on desktop) it's displayed right underneath the page title and if I scroll even just slightly down it vanishes, completely defeating the purpose hahaha. 
:The button in general looks very clunky, it takes up a bit too much space imho. Why not have it hover left from the page title instead of underneath? - [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 08:41, 31 October 2023 (EDT)
::You need to clear your browser cache. Hold Shift and press F5. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 08:55, 31 October 2023 (EDT)
:: Ohh got it, thanks! [[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 15:03, 1 November 2023 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2023-10-31T12:41:04Z

Thunderwave: /* Up button */

Transformers (2023) issue 1

2023-10-21T22:56:05Z

Thunderwave: /* Covers */ Added second Forbidden Planet exclusive. Unsure whether the cover also being sold in a foiled variant is relevant info?

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[Transformers (2023 comic)|Transformers]]'' #1
|prev=Void Rivals issue 1
|next=Transformers (2023) issue 2
|prev2=
|image=Transformers 2023 1 cvr.jpg
|caption=Alright, let’s do this one more time.
|title=
|publisher=[[Image Comics]] [[Skybound Entertainment]]
|date=[[October 4]], [[2023]]
|coverdate=October 2023
|written by=[[Daniel Warren Johnson]]
|art by=Daniel Warren Johnson
|colors by=[[Mike Spicer]]
|letters by=[[Rus Wooton]]
|editor=[[Sean Mackiewicz]]
|continuity=[[Energon Universe]]
|chronology=
}}

'''After centuries of slumber, the Autobots and Decepticons awaken on a strange new world.'''

==Synopsis==
[[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] finds his father, [[Sparkplug Witwicky|Sparkplug]], asleep in a bar. Spike asks his father how long he’s been there, to which [[Danny]] the bartender answers since noon. Sparkplug notices that Spike has his brother [[Jimmy Witwicky|Jimmy]]'s telescope with him. Spike tells him that he and [[Carly]] were planning to go up to [[Hanger's Rock]] to look at the full moon. He says it helps him remember Jimmy, to which Sparkplug grouses that it's better to just forget. Spike fires back at his father, telling him he won't end up like Jimmy. Meanwhile, [[Jerry (G1)|another patron]] is drunkenly ranting about how he saw a giant boxy jet fly down from space. Their conversation is interrupted by the arrival of Sparkplug's co-worker, [[Davey]], here to pick him up for their shifts. Sparkplug tells Spike that he has to grow up eventually, to which Spike angrily asks if he means being like him. As the adults drive off, Carly arrives to pick Spike up in her van. Carly consoles a dejected Spike by suggesting they go "pretend they're on another planet."

At Hanger's Rock, the pair climb the mountain in search of a better view and discuss their future ambitions. Spike has recently been accepted to the [[University of California, Berkeley]], where he wishes to follow in Jimmy's footsteps and become an astronaut, though he's reluctant to actually tell his father about it since Jimmy's death. Carly, meanwhile, has been looking at art schools, but she and her father are struggling to make it work financially. Carly takes Spike's hand in hers, telling him how sorry she is about what’s going on with his family. As the two teenagers lean in closer, an earthquake shakes the ground, causing the mountain to split open and sending the two plummeting into the depths below. Recovering, they find themselves inside a giant circular structure — the booster of [[Ark (G1)|a giant spacecraft]]. Spike ventures further inside the spacecraft and finds the main control room, littered with the mangled bodies of what appears to be some sort of giant robots.

[[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] flies into the ''Ark'' and transforms, grateful to have found his fallen friends. He activates [[Teletraan I|Teletraan One]] to repair and reconstruct his fellow Cybertronians, granting them new forms he found on [[Earth]]. The first to be reactivated is [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]. Jetfire warmly greets his old friend, having not seen him in centuries. Starscream thanks Jetfire for waking him and says that he's glad he "picked the right side" before immediately turning to the nearby [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and blasting his head off. The stunned Jetfire, unaware that their people have been at war for the past hundred years, tries to stop him, but Starscream turns his weapons on his old friend for showing weakness. Starscream aims his weapon at [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] next, but he is stopped by a reconstructed [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]!

As the [[Autobot]] leader and [[Decepticon]] warrior fight, Prime notices the humans and instinctively dives to protect them from Starscream’s fire. Starscream's attack is halted by the intervention of [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], right as Teletraan One reconstructs [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]. Realizing the computer is reconstructing them randomly, Starscream tells Skywarp to bring their fellow Decepticons closer. Optimus realizes that the Decepticons will outnumber them and orders a retreat, telling Ratchet to load their fellow Autobots into his new form's trailer while he fends off their opponents. He reaches for his [[ion blaster]] but is intercepted by cannon fire from a revived [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. As he recovers, he sees Bumblebee's remains, cradling him in despair before being beset by Starscream and [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]]. Seeing this, Spike and Carly run out and push Prime's blaster to him, allowing him to fight back.

Left with no choice, Optimus fires at Teletraan One, destroying the computer and preventing the remaining Decepticons from being reconstructed. As Teletraan explodes, Optimus grabs Carly and Spike. He and Ratchet transform and drive out of the ''Ark'' into the mountains below, Starscream and Skywarp in hot pursuit despite their low [[energon]] levels. Jetfire regains consciousness and follows after them, firing on Starscream much to his regret. Starscream volleys back, critically wounding Jetfire. Fortunately for the Autobots, Skywarp begins to run out of energy and the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] are forced to retreat.

Needing to recuperate, Spike leads the Autobots to an abandoned quarry. As he succumbs to his injuries, Jetfire apologizes to Optimus; so much has changed since he left Cybertron in hopes of saving it. Optimus tries to use the [[Matrix of Leadership]] to heal Jetfire, but Ratchet tells him that his injuries are too great. Optimus grips his old friend's hand as he passes, still lamenting his failure. Back in the ''Ark'', Soundwave reports to Starscream that he is unable to fix Teletraan One, as they lack both the energon and the raw materials necessary. Until it is repaired, they are the only Decepticons left. Soundwave has already sent [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] to scout for possible energon sources, but the job of harvesting it falls to Starscream since he has the most energon reserved. Begrudgingly, Starscream accepts. After all, he is leader of the Decepticons now.

As Davey and Sparkplug end their shift at the nearby power plant, Davey tries to talk to Sparkplug about his recent troubles, but they are interrupted by the arrival of Starscream, irritated he has to be the one doing all the work. The pair try to escape, but Starscream notices them. Sparkplug hides inside the plant, while Davey is snatched up by the giant alien. Starscream smiles to himself as he crushes Davey in his hand, amused at how fragile, squishy, and pathetic the humans are.

{{--}}

==Featured characters==
Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks. 
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (2)
* [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] (11)
* [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (12)
* [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] (13)
* [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (14)
* [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (15)
* [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] (16)
* [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] (18)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]]’s arm (19)

|c2=
* [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (8)
* [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (9)
* [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] (10)
* [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] (20)
* [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] (21)
* [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (22)

|c3=
* [[Sparkplug Witwicky]] (1)
* [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (3)
* [[Danny]] (4)
* [[Jerry (G1)|Jerry]] (5)
* [[Davey]] (6)
* [[Carly]] (7)

|c4=
* [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] (17)
}}

==Quotes==
"Where are you going? Isn't that... Jimmy's?" 
"Yeah. Carly and I were going to check out the full moon tonight, remember? On top of Hanger's Rock?" 
"Looking at '''stars''' again, huh?" 
"Doing this kind of thing... it reminds me of him." 
"Why would you want to remember? It's best to '''forget''' all that." 
"Is that how you're gonna '''live''' now? Just pretending he didn't '''exist?'''" 
:—'''Sparkplug''' and '''Spike''' touch on their trauma

"You must forgive me. I have been away for centuries. I did not know about the war. I did not know you were the new Prime..." 
"I remember the day you left our home to find a way to save it." 
"And you... were so young then." 
"Much has changed since you left our planet. All for the worse." 
:—'''Jetfire''' and '''Optimus Prime''' rekindle their friendship

"Why are you all looking at '''me?'''" 
"You have the most energon reserved. Thus the harvesting is up to '''you.''' It's what Meg---" 
"'''Do not''' say his name. '''I''' am the leader of the Decepticons now."
:—'''Starscream''' and '''Soundwave'''

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* Jetfire's arrival on Earth follows from his awakening in [[Void Rivals issue 1|the first issue]] of ''[[Void Rivals]]''. How long he was asleep exactly is a little unclear. In ''Void Rivals'', he mentions being stranded for millions of years, but here he says he was away for merely centuries. Due to the syntax used, it could be that Jetfire was ''searching'' for centuries but ''asleep'' for millions of years.
* Cybertron's energon shortage was hinted at by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] in ''Void Rivals'' [[Void Rivals issue 4|#4]].
* After being attacked by Starscream, Jetfire is seen leaking yellow fluid. This would appear to confirm that the yellow fuel used by [[Darak]] and [[Solila]] to reactivate him was indeed energon.
* Soundwave and Starscream allude to the absence of the usual Decepticon leader, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Hmm... [[Cobra Commander (comic)|where could he be]]?
* Yes, Bumblebee's really dead, having been destroyed by Starscream. The other Transformers, including those like Thundercracker whose reassembly is interrupted, are just offline.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Thundercracker's not killed, he just was not fully built. [...] S'not like I shot him in the heart or something. Just FYI.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3774s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>

===Transformers references===
* Like with ''Void Rivals'', this new series draws heavy influence from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]:
** The character designs all pull directly from Generation 1.
** The ''Ark'' crashing into a mountain and the Autobots and Decepticons being repaired by Teletraan One is lifted from the premiere episode, "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]", right down to one of the Decepticons being reactivated first. The "error" of the Transformers having their Earth-inspired designs before they receive their Earth alternate modes is also carried over.
** Spike, Sparkplug, and Carly all originate from the Generation 1 cartoon, though they have been heavily reimagined, especially Carly.
* Optimus Prime gains the upper hand over Starscream with a fist and a resounding "never", similar to ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''.
* This [[Darkness Rising, Part 1|isn't the]] [[Infiltration issue 1|first time]] a new ''Transformers'' series launched with Starscream in command in lieu of Megatron.

===Real-world references===
* Sparkplug's flashbacks on the first page of the issue features imagery of Sparkplug in a conflict much like the [[Vietnam War]] and the explosion of a space shuttle reminiscent of the {{w|Space Shuttle Challenger disaster|Space Shuttle ''Challenger'' disaster}}; based on the context, it seems likely that Jimmy was one of the victims in the latter. Whether these are meant to literally be those events (which would suggest the comic is actually supposed to be set in the 1980s) or merely stylistic renderings of purely fictional events remains to be seen.
* Appropriately, Sparkplug is drinking at a {{w|Veterans of Foreign Wars|VFW}} bar.
* The drunk man raving about having seen a strange aircraft homages a similar scene from ''{{w|The Iron Giant}}'', right down to the character's design.
* Carly's van art features several staples of van murals, such as a wizard inspired by {{w|Gandalf}} from ''{{w|The Lord of the Rings}}'', a barbarian resembling {{w|Conan the Barbarian|Conan}}, and a fantasy castle and dragon.
* Spike's outfit, with a red vest and blue jeans, seems to be pretty heavily based on [[Marty McFly]]'s classic outfit from ''[[Back to the Future]]''.
* Optimus Prime enters the scene by ''clotheslining'' Starscream—this being the signature move of "Rainmaker" Kazuchika Okada, one of DWJ's favorite wrestlers.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=And of course, next we have a rainmaker clothesline, as one does. This is a wrestling move, this is one of my favorite wrestlers, Kazuchika Okada from New Japan Pro Wrestling. Of course, you know, the rainmaker, the lariat, is not new in professional wrestling, and by the end of this series it will not be new to Transformers.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2508s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref><ref>[https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34jfv6 Kazuchika Okada's Finisher- Rainmaker on Dailymotion]</ref>

===Storytelling notes===
As both writer and artist on this ''Transformers'' series, Daniel Warren Johnson has a rare level of creative freedom while composing the issue and using the art to tell the story. Some of these creative choices were covered in a "director's commentary" livestream on his YouTube channel; key insights are reproduced here alongside our own analysis of the issue.
* DWJ keeps a copy of [[IP infringement|Magic Square]]'s "Light of Peace" figure close at hand, which influences his take on Optimus Prime.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is the Optimus Prime figure that Magic Square put out this past year in 2023. It's an update, so it has a new head sculpt, it looks just like the movie, the '86 movie which of course has been my bible. He looks so good that you can actually like, kind of pose him, and he looks pretty dynamic. And I knew that, man, if the toy looks this cool in real life, then I can make him look really cool... like look at this, it looks great, he looks kind of alive.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=798s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> He notes that he specifically avoids having Prime's "boots" flare out at all; he tries to draw them perfectly straight.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Another thing that I'll notice, that I'll give you a little preview of things to come artwise: you'll see Optimus's legs, you know, traditionally, you know, he's got kind of the 1970s design aesthetic here, which I think the Marvel Comics did, where, you know, the leg kind of comes out... like so it makes kind of like a boot cut kind of style for his like lower half of his leg. And I hate drawing that. I hate drawing that. Look how straight these legs are. As this series goes on you're going to see these legs get straighter and straighter. It's a stylistic thing something that I've been kind of like- it's been bugging me about drawing Optimus Prime, and it's just, I cannot stand drawing those legs widening out at the bottom. It's like, something about it, it just like, makes my eyes hurt. I've never liked it in the comics, it always read weird to me that they got wider. Some characters- like I remember when practicing, I was drawing Jazz. Jazz gets really wide, and if it's like, if it's really confident, like big and chunky, or Cliffjumper, big, chunky, no big deal. This? Like, Optimus's legs going wider? It just like, is it going wider is it not going w- anyway these are the ramblings of a crazy lunatic comic book artist.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2699s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* His primary ''Transformers'' comics influence comes from [[Marvel Comics]] and [[Dreamwave Productions]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wanted to just highlight this poster that I had in my bedroom when I was like 16, when Pat Lee made this imagery. You know, I was a huge ''Transformers'' fan of course when I was growing up, and I read mostly the Marvel Comics, 'cause that was the only thing that was available at the time, and here we have the Pat Lee comics of course that Dreamwave put out. I was so excited, I thought it looked awesome. I still do appreciate its blockiness now. So this is another reason why I wanted to do the project, 'cause like I just remember these feelings, and these like super bright colors that like were so awesome... and just being excited with like every cover, and I just felt like a kid. [...] And of course this image, like this is very satisfying, I knew I didn't want to get this bulbous with the designs, but you know I can't say I wasn't influenced by the absolutely outlandishness of these kind of like larger-than-life characters, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=997s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> In the case of the latter, we'll note that [[Prime Directive|their opening miniseries]] prominently featured the ''[[Ark II]]'' disaster which drew heavily from the real-world Space Shuttle ''Challenger'' disaster.
* The first page of the story consists of five vertically-stacked cinematic landscape panels, with Sparkplug's flashbacks interspersed by a panel of the Ark crashing and of Prime's deactivated body. This gives us an idea of what's been going through Sparkplug's mind at the bar. In particular, the panel of Optimus Prime is bookended by Spike's offscreen dialogue getting his dad's attention; Prime is often positioned as something of a father figure in wider pop culture.
** At Hasbro's request, DWJ avoided being too specific as to the conflict being shown.<ref name=HasbroMandates>{{citesocial|quote=So here we've got the first page, and you can kind of see here, Hasbro wanted me to be be very like... don't show what kind of war it is... which is fine, and I did have to change these engines from three engines, which I just thought was a little cleaner, to five engines, like the Ark is, so I didn't think they'd care that much about being on model when it came to the Ark but they did!|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0?t=1316s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
** DWJ wanted to streamline the Ark's design to have just three rear thrusters, but Hasbro insisted on it having five,<ref name=HasbroMandates /> necessitating the digital addition of two more to the later splash page of the ship's engines.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So again, I had to make a bit of an edit. The original art has just three engines, so I had to add these digitally—which I did not want to do, but Hasbro wanted it, so, okay, you know? It's okay, it's okay, it's all right, it is what it is...|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1845s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* The second page aims to bring the story into reality,<ref name=Page2>{{citesocial|quote=I really wanted to go all in on the first half of this page, and like really sell to you how lived in this world is. Even though it's a ''Transformers'' book it was very important to me that we got a vibe and a sense of where the human characters come from. And there's nothing more fun, than drawing the heck out of, than like a crappy VW hall. [...] It was a hard thing to draw, but it was also fun. I had to kind of photobash a bunch of different VFW bars—obviously didn't want to take from any one specifically, or any one bar specifically, just kind of taking the best of everything and kind of combining it into one. And this bartender, Danny the bartender, I'm a big fan of, he just kind of stands there. And of course the old guy that maybe has seen something crazy... total shout out to—even his like haircut is the same as, and the hat, as—''{{w|The Iron Giant}}'', so a little shout out there. [...] It doesn't really [take place in a specific time period like the '80s or '90s] in my opinion, there might be other people in the Energon Universe that have a different time, we don't really have a time period in place. I find time periods in comics like ''Transformers'' to be completely unnecessary. If I'm trying to make historical fiction then of course it is important, but when it comes to making things like the Transformers I have just never cared. JFK is not getting assassinated in the background on television here, so it's just not part of the story. But you will notice there's no cell phones, so. But that's cuz I hate writing stories with cell phones in them.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1406s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> with much more detailed panels of varying shapes and sizes, and a muted earthen color palette.
** DWJ took reference from several different {{w|Veterans of Foreign Wars|VFW}} bars to arrive at the location seen in the comic.<ref name=Page2 />
** As Spike and Sparkplug exit, the cluttered interior gives way to the orange evening sky, with the generous negative space often physically separating Spike from his distant father.
** DWJ notes that the final panel of this spread is technically wrong; based on the perspective of the scene, Spike should be sinking into the ground. This was necessary so as not to obscure Carly's van,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I have a bit of a goof, a bit of a mistake [...] if you actually like do the perspective here, the way it should be done, it makes no sense. He would be sinking into the ground, he's like in quicksand right now, but I could not figure out a better dynamic shot choice that would show Carly and her artistic ability with this van. Like I tried to do it like this way, and it didn't really work, because it covered up too much of the van, and I realized just how big he would have to be, like his whole face would have to be like over here and it just didn't work. I wanted him to be in the middle, but then it also didn't make sense. So I was just like beating my head against the wall like, I hope this is okay, I hope people don't notice.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0?si=QxISYwvu5QpUEbhw&t=1516s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> which is the same model of vehicle that appears in DWJ's previous original comic series ''[https://www.skybound.com/murder-falcon Murder Falcon]''.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Of course the dragon wagon, the van used in ''Murder Falcon''.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1578s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> Mike Spicer has coloured the van using blue-pink tones, strongly contrasting with the orange otherwise dominating the spread. As we turn the page, these nighttime hues take over the story, marking the beginning of a transition towards the unreal.
* The mountain landscape was drawn to resemble that of an alien planet, to highlight the feeling of "otherworldliness".<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This also is one of my favorite panels in the book. I wanted to start getting a little crazy, a little more intense with the shot choices, to kind of start getting us into the vibe of otherworldliness. This looks a little bit like they're exploring Mars, that was the goal, completely clear sky, really pushing the envelope when it comes to dynamic composition.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1635s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* As the earthquake begins, we get the first instance of hand-lettered sound effects, drawn into the lineart by DWJ. These appear more prominently and frequently as we transition towards comic-book action.
[[File:TF2023 1 Splash pages composition.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2|Diagram illustrating DWJ's intended flow for the back-to-back splash pages.]]
* The reveal of the Ark is paired across the two-page spread with another splash page of the deactivated Autobots. DWJ hoped to create a seamless transition, with the reader's gaze travelling down towards the inset panels at the bottom left, then following Spike and Carly across to the right, before travelling up into the scene.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This was a goal, this was the goal: to have these pages be bleeding into each other. [...] You know I don't like to do this very often, you have like two splash pages back-to-back, because they kind of like... it gets a little messy here. But you know I usually like- if I have a big splash here [on the left], I'll usually have something a little more reserved over here [on the right], and I won't have it bleed over to the left side of the page. But with here, you'll actually notice that I was trying to get people to read from... obviously you're reading here, then you go down, left to right, into this bottom part of the page, and have your eye trail up instead of going over here [diagonally across the center fold] to the top. So I was using these kind of inset panels to kind of get you to read that way.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1985s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> Mike Spicer's coloring (exaggerated in the diagram on the right) again reinforces this intent, with the blue shade of the rocks at the bottom of the right-hand page carrying over from the left-hand page.
** Meanwhile, all of the lines of perspective inside the room point outside, where a tiny Jetfire can be seen approaching.
* Jetfire is one of Robert Kirkman's favorite Transformers, and his role in this series came entirely from Robert Kirkman's broad-strokes outline.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So, full disclosure: Robert Kirkman came up with the Jetfire idea. Jetfire is one of Robert's favorite Transformers, and that's why he was chosen. He's also like part of the lore and it was kind of like in this big outline that Jetfire was the one that comes in and finds the Autobots on Earth in the Ark- Autobots and Decepticons. But he doesn't have knowledge about the war. So you know I can't give away too much, but that was a Robert Kirkman call, and I was happy to do it. I was a little afraid about drawing Jetfire at first, but I'm actually- of course I write the script first where he dies, because it's just what the story needed, but then as I got to drawing him I was like, "I really like drawing this guy, I'm so sad I have to kill him!"|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3301s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* The shock death of Bumblebee was a deliberate choice, as DWJ felt like audiences would be getting a little tired of seeing Bumblebee everywhere. Surprisingly, Hasbro felt the same way, and themselves asked if there was a way to write Bumblebee out of the series! DWJ also apparently doesn't enjoy drawing Bumblebee, which informed the decision,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Let me be totally honest about the Bumblebee page, let me address this. I do really- I do like Bumblebee. I don't like drawing Bumblebee, I don't like those rivets in his arms. That's not the only reason why he had to go, I just honestly wanted to change things up. I just wanted to change things up, and I had seen a lot of Bumblebee, I think we all have, in a lot of ''Transformers'' media, and I just thought it would be a fun little swerve. And this is actually funny, our contact over at Hasbro was also a little tired of seeing Bumblebee everywhere, and he actually asked, before he saw my script, he's like, "is there any way we can not use Bumblebee in the main line?" And I told him, I was like, "I got good news for you!" He had to go, he had to go. Sorry Bumblebee fans, sorry to let you down like that, I am so sorry. They are Transformers, maybe they'll come back... but not for a long time. It's Cliff's time baby! You said it!|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2545s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> which perhaps doesn't bode too well for Cliffjumper!
* When Starscream turns on Jetfire, DWJ struggled to get the composition exactly right, as he was limited by the need to make it explicitly clear that Jetfire was gravely wounded.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wanted to make sure that everybody knew that Jetfire was gravely injured by this blast, which means I couldn't really white it out, had to be clear.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2498s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* Prime uses several wrestling moves on Starscream; DWJ had previously created the original comic series ''[https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/do-a-powerbomb Do A Powerbomb!]'', which had a central theme of loss—a motif which recurs throughout this first ''Transformers'' issue.
* As Starscream, Skywarp and Thundercracker look identical in black-and-white, DWJ labels them in his lineart so colorist Mike Spicer can easily distinguish.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Also notice the color notes I had to leave for Mike, because Skywarp and Starcream look exactly alike in black and white.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2839s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* Prime instinctively knowing about his trailer, and its sudden appearance in the story, is a riff on classic media where Prime's trailer would often appear and disappear out of nowhere per the needs of the story.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is a little shoutout to like, the not-making-any-sense of ''Transformers'', where you know, very conveniently, this trailer just shows up out of nowhere. So you know, Prime's like, "What are we going to do?" and he's like, "We could use my trailer!" Look sometimes you just have to have fun and not think too much about the story.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3131s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* As Prime's face is uniquely inexpressive, DWJ had to get creative to show his emotions to the reader, relying a lot on the character's eyes. Additionally, he tries to channel Prime's feelings through Spike.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Optimus is a character that does not emote—less so than even the rest of the cast, because of the face shield, because so much of his face is taken up, and he's really only got those eyes to work with. And I found that I was needing a way to channel Optimus through something, and I'm kind of trying to channel that through Spike, if you can't tell. I have a tendency to not be subtle, so... in life and in comics.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3516s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> When Spike sees Prime kneeling over Bumblebee's body, it seems that he recognises the grief this alien robot is experiencing.
* Amongst the many creative sound effects in this sequence, we have highlights like "GRAPPLE" and "ROLL" accompanying the action. Clicks and buzzes fill the air together with the floating components as the Transformers are reassembled.
* DWJ contrived the situation where Spike and Carly need to push Prime's gun into his reach as a way of giving the human characters agency during the action sequence.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Sliding the gun! Super fun! I rewrote this scene a few times because the humans were just sitting, screaming, you know? Spike and Carly like, "Oh my god, what's happening!?" behind some rocks, and I was like, "They need to have some agency, they need to get involved somehow." And so that is why I had them push the gun, and it forces action, it just forces movement in a story, it gives Spike personality and like bravery, and I'm very happy with this moment. It's very hard to not just write fight scenes where it's just like fight fight fight fight fight, and finding new ways to tie everybody together, and I wish I had more time to do this but of course we work in genre fiction where there are deadlines, and sometimes that can't happen, but I was glad that I was able to figure this one out.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3543s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> The "SKRKK" sound effect of the gun scraping along the floor is drawn to follow the lines of action.
* When Prime gives the order to "Transform and roll out!", the ''entire comic'' shifts to a landscape orientation, requiring you to physically turn the comic in your hands. This is awesome.
* Ratchet's updated alternate mode came simply from a dissatisfaction with his classic Nissan look.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Any reason you went with a more modern style van, a Ford Transit rather than the traditional Nissan Vanette for Ratchet? You know what, I just didn't like the way the Nissan looked, so I just, I really wanted something different. I just wanted something different, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2966s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* DWJ was keen to develop the Decepticons beyond their classic cartoonishly-evil characterisation, with a key example in this issue being Soundwave's clear concern for the injured Ravage.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=It's all about this, baby. It's all about trying to give some... you know... something other than... "The Decepticons are all evil, raah!" Like, Soundwave is a bad dude—but man, he loves his tapes, and one of these tapes is hurting bad and he's feeling real bad about it.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=4410s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* For Davey's gruesome death at the hand of Starscream, Hasbro requested it occur off-panel. The beat was intended to clearly set the stakes of the comic without being egregiously gory,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Hasbro asked for Davey to be killed offscreen, which I was totally fine with. Did want to get kind of messy with it, though, because I did want to kind of make a little bit of a statement. You know, it's a book that your kids can read, but you know, not everybody's going to make it, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=4593s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> and seems to mark a major turning point for Sparkplug.

===Errors===
* Bumblebee's body is seen near Optimus Prime’s trailer, despite him being across the ship near Teletraan One when Starscream blew his head open.
* When Starscream is forced to break off his pursuit of the Autobots, his speech balloon is pointing to Skywarp.

===Other trivia===
* Prior to its official release, an ashcan copy of this issue was available exclusively at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2023. The ashcan had certain pages taken out to prevent spoilers, as well as featuring concept art and designs for various characters.
* In early solicitations for this issue, the cover had an original logo with blue text broken over two lines;<ref>[https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/AUG230407 ''Transformers'' #1 CVR A JOHNSON on PREVIEWSworld]</ref> the final cover uses the standard modern logo, leaving some unsightly negative space above Prime's head. This was changed at the request of Hasbro.
* This issue sold out at the distributor level before it was even officially released, prompting Skybound to announce a second printing the day before it hit retailer shelves.

===Covers===
{{comicstub|33/53 covers documented}}
* '''Cover A:''' Optimus Prime emerges from an explosion, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover B:''' The Autobots, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover C:''' The Decepticons, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover D:''' Optimus Prime destroys Starscream, by [[Ryan Ottley]].
* '''Cover E (1:10 Copy Incentive):''' Connecting cover, by [[Orlando Arocena]].
* '''Cover F (1:25 Copy Incentive):''' Optimus leaps on Starscream to save Carly's van as Laserbeak and Ravage attack, by [[Cliff Chiang]].
* '''Cover G (1:50 Copy Incentive):''' Optimus Prime, by [[Francis Manapul]].
* '''Cover H (1:100 Copy Incentive):''' Starscream holds Bumblebee’s head, by [[Ian Bertram]].
* '''Cover I:''' Blank sketch cover.
* '''Second printing cover A:''' Optimus Prime, by [[Jason Howard]].
* '''Second printing cover B:''' Starscream, by [[Jason Howard]].
* '''Second printing cover C:''' The 'Bots, by [[Lewis LaRosa]] and [[Rico Renzi]].
* '''Second printing cover D:''' The 'Cons, by [[Lewis LaRosa]] and [[Rico Renzi]].
* '''Second printing cover E:''' Bumblebee's fate, by [[Greg Tocchini]].
* '''Alan Quah exclusive:'''
* '''Carnivore Comics exclusive A:'''
* '''Carnivore Comics exclusive B:'''
* '''Comic Grail Vault exclusive:'''
* '''DarlsDraws exclusive:'''
* '''Felix Comic Art exclusive A:''' Wraparound cover of Optimus Prime playing basketball against the Decepticons, by Daniel Warren Johnson & Mike Spicer.
* '''Felix Comic Art exclusive B:''' Black-and-white virgin version.
* '''Forbidden Planet exclusive A (Limited to 1000 copies):'''
* '''Forbidden Planet exclusive B:'''
* '''Maria The Wolf exclusive A:'''
* '''Memory Lane Comics exclusive:'''
* '''Ryan Barry exclusive:'''
* '''San Diego Comic-Con Ashcan cover A:''' Spike atop Optimus Prime, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''San Diego Comic-Con Ashcan cover B:''' Black-and-white version, only available at Skybound's Energon Universe convention panel.
* '''Skottie Young exclusive:'''
* '''Stadium Comics exclusive:'''
* '''The 616 Comics exclusive:'''
* '''Things From Another World exclusive:'''
* '''TransMissions Podcast exclusive:'''

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File:Transformers 2023 1 SDCC AC cvr B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Skottie Young cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Stadium Comics cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 The 616 Comics cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Things From Another World cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 TransMissions Podcast cvr.jpg|
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* Explore the [[Energon Universe]] in ''Void Rivals''
* Codename: G.I. Joe starts in ''[[Duke (comic)|Duke]]'' #1
* The rise of [[Cobra]] starts in ''[[Cobra Commander (comic)|Cobra Commander]]'' #1
* A new era for G.I. Joe starts in ''[[G.I. Joe (comic)|G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero]]'' #301
* ''Murder Falcon'' Deluxe Hardcover available now

==External links==
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0 Director's commentary by Daniel Warren Johnson]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) issues]]

File:Transformers 2023 1 Juni Ba cvr.jpg

2023-10-21T22:53:32Z

Thunderwave: {{SkyboundEU |description= {{art|art=Juni Ba}} |series=transformers |cover=Forbidden Planet exclusive cover B |excerpt= |issueno=1 |storylink= |storytitle= |year=23}} Category:Transformers (2023) covers Category: Images by Juni Ba

{{SkyboundEU
|description=
{{art|art=[[Juni Ba]]}}
|series=transformers
|cover=Forbidden Planet exclusive cover B
|excerpt=
|issueno=1
|storylink=
|storytitle=
|year=23}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) covers]]
[[Category: Images by Juni Ba]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2023-10-20T21:54:39Z

Thunderwave: New Section

Drift issue 2

2023-10-16T14:08:51Z

Thunderwave: Info seemed to be inserted in the wrong spot (Am currently reading the issue and checked the page, Noprips is featured on page 20 instead of 15)

{{comicstory|seriesissue=''[[The Transformers: Drift]]'' #2
|prev=Drift issue 1
|next=Drift issue 3
|title=
|image=Transformers Drift Issue 2 Cover A.jpg
|caption=Warning: cover does not contain traces of Drift.
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[September 22]], [[2010]]
|coverdate=September 2010
|written by=[[Shane McCarthy]]
|art by=[[Alex Milne]]
|colors by=[[Josh Perez]]
|letters by=[[Shawn Lee]]
|edits by=[[Denton J. Tipton]]
|editorial consultant=[[Andy Schmidt]]
|continuity=[[2005 IDW continuity]]
|chronology=Unknown
}}
'''Awakening in New Crystal City, Drift is presented a challenge by Wing.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Drift2-somewhereinconspicuous.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6]]
[[Wing (IDW)|Wing]] explains to [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] about the war on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] and how those who refused to take sides had little hope of surviving. The [[Circle of Light]] then convened and decided to slip away to find another planet to live on. Realising that the war was spreading beyond Cybertron, the decision was made to build the new [[Crystal City]] underground. Its population was made up of scholars, scientists, and those who didn't wish to fight.

Back in the present, Wing and Drift debate each other's motives, Drift's for choosing to fight in an 'ideological' war and Wing's for running away which Drift deems to be 'cowardly'. Wing counters by comparing the slums and desperation of Cybertron to the utopia of Crystal City and then questioning Drift's [[Decepticon]] motives.

Wing is summoned before [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] and his council to explain why he brought a Decepticon into their city and revealed himself to the slavers. Wing questions why the laws of the Circle of Light would expect him to leave a fellow Cybertronian to die on the surface, not to mention leaving the Slavers' victims behind. Because of the danger involved with allowing a Decepticon know of their existence and thus endangering the whole city, Dai Atlas decides Drift will become the Wing's responsibility. Wing defends Drifts motives and promises he won't betray the city, but the council won't accept it and lays the fate of the city on the shoulders of Wing.

Drift and Wing head to a sparring room and Wing questions what the Decepticon emblem stands for. Drift believes it stands for strength, power and conviction and that Decepticons should rule because they're the 'best' and 'strongest'. Wing tells Drift to prove his superiority without swords or guns. The pair spar, with Wing always coming out on top. Wing offers a deal in which Drift can leave the city if he can beat him. Weeks later, Wing is still the better fighter and while the pair battle, Drift reveals that he didn't join the Decepticons to 'conquer the galaxy.'

In another flashback to Cybertron, Drift reveals that he was a discarded robot living on the streets when the 'annoyingly optimistic' [[Gasket]] found him and formed a street gang, stealing energon to survive. When Gasket intervenes on some police brutality, he's accidentally shot and killed. Drift then flips, tackling one police officer, taking his gun and shooting the rest. That's when he realises he's got a gift for violence. Although he went into hiding, Cybertron's underworld found him and trained him to be a great soldier. He also learned of the corruption in society's elite. At a Decepticon rally, he's singled out by [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] who shows him that there's another way. He then renames Drift as Deadlock, telling him he'll become a great warrior and will fight by Megatron's side.

Wing asks Drift to look at what his actions have done to Cybertron. He explains that there's another way for peace and equality to exist, that Crystal City holds everything Drift has been looking for. Wing sees something else in Drift, something previously corrupted by Megatron.

Wing and Drift are summoned to the control room when Axe picks up a widespread transmission from outside the city. Asked to translate, Drift says he can't. Later that night, Drift sneaks up to the surface to meet the [[Braid|slavers]] who sent the message. Drift is puzzled how the slavers were able to use Decepticon encoding when [[Lockdown (G1)|Lockdown]] appears, stating how displeased Megatron is. The Slavers then offer Drift a deal: reveal the location of Crystal City or die.

==Featured characters==
(Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks.) 
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
* ''[[Hot Shot (G1)|Hot Shot]]'' (5)
* ''[[Ironhide (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ironhide]]'' (6)
* ''[[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]]'' (7)
|c2=
* ''[[Motormaster (G1)|Motormaster]]'' (1)
* ''[[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]]'' (2)
* ''[[Skywarp (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Skywarp]]'' (3)
* ''[[Thundercracker (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Thundercracker]]'' (4)
* ''[[Glit (KP)|Glit]]'' (8)
* [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] (11)
* ''[[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]'' (15)
* ''[[Soundwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Soundwave]]'' (16)
* ''[[Runamuck (G1)|Runamuck]]'' (17)
* [[Lockdown (G1)|Lockdown]] (19)
|c4=
* [[Axe (G1)|Axe]] (9)
* [[Wing (IDW)|Wing]] (10)
* [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] (12)
* ''[[Gasket]]'' (13)
* ''[[Decimus (G1)|Decimus]]'' (14)
* [[Braid]] (18)
}}

==Quotes==
"You’re no run-of-the-mill brute. You believe in something, I can see it." 
"You see nothing."
:–'''Wing''' tries to nail down '''Drift’s''' motives.

"Come on, Drift. Where’s all that Decepticon power and superiority? If you want to conquer the galaxy, you need to try harder than '''that'''."
:–'''Wing''' schools Drift in weaponless combat.

==Notes==
===Transformers references===
[[File:Drift2-SGRavage.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Take this, Willis!]]
[[File:Drift2-hotshot.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|How to handle a disagreement among professionals in a professional manner.]]
* On page 15, panel two, one Decepticon [[generic]] seems to be based on ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]'' [[Lugnut (Animated)|Lugnut]].
* [[Hot Shot (G1)|''Henkei'' Hot Rod]] and [[Glit (KP)|Glit]] turn up and [[death|exit very terminally]]. Alex Milne revealed this was because when he needed some cannon fodder, his friend suggested killing [[Hot Shot (Armada)|''Armada'' Hot Shot]] and [[Ravage (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' Ravage]] as they are [[David Willis]]'s favourite character and original creation respectively, and they thought it'd be funny.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20120627081743/http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=204657 Post by Alex Milne on IDW's forum]</ref> This created some minor controversy, causing [[Denton J. Tipton]] to state that Milne has no control over which characters live or die, and that these were just generics and this is only an issue because of the "fascination with 'canon.'"<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20110720053941/http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=205076 Post by Denton Tipton on IDW's forum]</ref>

===Real life references===
* On page 1, panel 4, the word "[[User:Monzo|MONZO]]" is written on the floor, though it's partially obscured by a caption box. It's also written in reverse on the other side of the floor.
* On page four, panel two, Josh Perez colored several generics with color layouts based on [[Buzz Lightyear]] and Jessie from ''Toy Story 2'', Mega Man, Protoman, Turbo, [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]], and Earthworm Jim.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I totally didn't color Jessie and BuzzLightyear, Megaman, AnimatedBulkhead, Protoman, Turbo, and Earthworm Jim all in the same panel|link=https://twitter.com/dyemooch/status/25359006141|name=Josh Perez|site=Twitter|year=2010|month=09|day=24|(defunct=)}}</ref>
* On page 20, the words "TFW2005" (a popular Transformers fansite) are written under a train bridge.
* On the same page, in panel 2, "Noprips" (the DeviantArt username of colorist [[Priscilla Tramontano]]) is written on an arch.

===Errors===
* From pages 19–22, Drift's Decepticon insignia is missing from his chest.

===Other notes===
* Lockdown, who had previously only appeared in ''[[Lockdown (Animated)|Animated]]'' and the [[Lockdown (ROTF)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline]], makes his G1-continuity debut in this issue — the first instance of IDW bringing in a character from another [[continuity family]] to their Generation 1 universe as more than a cameo. Lockdown uses the design of [[Lockdown (ROTF)#Revenge of the Fallen|his ROTF toy]], albeit with a more "G1-ized" face.

===Covers(2)===
* '''Cover A:''' Wing and several other members of the [[Circle of Light]] posing on a cliffside; art by [[Alex Milne]], colors by [[Josh Perez]].
* '''Cover RI:''' Deadlock firing twin pistols with Megatron looking over; art by [[Guido Guidi]], colors by Josh Perez.

<gallery>
File:Transformers Drift Issue 2 Cover A.jpg|Wing and his friend are the only members of the Circle of Light who aren't blind.
File:Transformers Drift Issue 2 Cover RI.jpg|"Kill that human looking at us!"
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* [[Drift issue 3|''Drift'' #3]]
* IDWords
* ''Dungeons & Dragons'' #0
* ''Transformers Vol.1: For All Mankind'' TPB
* James Patterson's ''Witch & Wizard: Battle for Shadowland''
* ''The Rocketeer''
* ''[[G.I. Joe (franchise)|G.I. Joe]]'' comics on iPhone

===Reprints===
Other than [[The Transformers: Drift#Collections|reprints of the full series]]
* N/A

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Drift issues]]

User:Thunderwave

2023-10-15T14:18:29Z

Thunderwave: Created page with "Game Design Student and 2D Artist from Germany. My art is to be found under the Name '''bwans_art''' on platforms like Instagram and all that jazz. "Watch this. You will ..."

Game Design Student and 2D Artist from Germany. 
My art is to be found under the Name '''bwans_art''' on platforms like Instagram and all that jazz.

"Watch this. You will like it" 
This is what my friend told me after he sent a video about Shockwave. 
He had no idea just ''how much'' I would like it. 

He has regrets, but I for my part am having the time of my life over here, obsessing over giant alien robots.

File:Transformers 2023 1 ForbiddenPlanet cvr.jpg

2023-10-15T13:51:37Z

Thunderwave:

{{SkyboundEU |description= {{art|art=Flaviano}} |series=transformers |cover=ForbiddenPlanet exclusive cover (limited to 1000 copies) |excerpt= |issueno=1 | storylink= |storytitle= |year=23 }}

File:Transformers 2023 1 ForbiddenPlanet cvr.jpg

2023-10-15T13:44:40Z

Thunderwave: Thunderwave uploaded a new version of "File:Transformers 2023 1 ForbiddenPlanet cvr.jpg": {{SkyboundEU |description= {{art|art=Flaviano}} |series=transformers |cover=ForbiddenPlanet limited exclusive cover |excerpt= |issueno=1 | storylink= |

{{SkyboundEU |description= {{art|art=Flaviano}} |series=transformers |cover=ForbiddenPlanet exclusive cover (limited to 1000 copies) |excerpt= |issueno=1 | storylink= |storytitle= |year=23 }}

[[User:Thunderwave|Thunderwave/Bwans_Art]] ([[User talk:Thunderwave|talk]]) 09:33, 15 October 2023 (EDT)

Transformers (2023) issue 1

2023-10-15T13:39:12Z

Thunderwave: /* Covers */

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[Transformers (2023 comic)|Transformers]]'' #1
|prev=Void Rivals issue 1
|next=Transformers (2023) issue 2
|prev2=
|image=Transformers 2023 1 cvr.jpg
|caption=Alright, let’s do this one more time.
|title=
|publisher=[[Image Comics]] [[Skybound Entertainment]]
|date=[[October 4]], [[2023]]
|coverdate=October 2023
|written by=[[Daniel Warren Johnson]]
|art by=Daniel Warren Johnson
|colors by=[[Mike Spicer]]
|letters by=[[Rus Wooton]]
|editor=[[Sean Mackiewicz]]
|continuity=[[Energon Universe]]
|chronology=
}}

'''After centuries of slumber, the Autobots and Decepticons awaken on a strange new world.'''

==Synopsis==
[[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] finds his father, [[Sparkplug Witwicky|Sparkplug]], asleep in a bar. Spike asks his father how long he’s been there, to which [[Danny]] the bartender answers since noon. Sparkplug notices that Spike has his brother [[Jimmy Witwicky|Jimmy]]'s telescope with him. Spike tells him that he and [[Carly]] were planning to go up to [[Hanger's Rock]] to look at the full moon. He says it helps him remember Jimmy, to which Sparkplug grouses that it's better to just forget. Spike fires back at his father, telling him he won't end up like Jimmy. Meanwhile, [[Jerry (G1)|another patron]] is drunkenly ranting about how he saw a giant boxy jet fly down from space. Their conversation is interrupted by the arrival of Sparkplug's co-worker, [[Davey]], here to pick him up for their shifts. Sparkplug tells Spike that he has to grow up eventually, to which Spike angrily asks if he means being like him. As the adults drive off, Carly arrives to pick Spike up in her van. Carly consoles a dejected Spike by suggesting they go "pretend they're on another planet."

At Hanger's Rock, the pair climb the mountain in search of a better view and discuss their future ambitions. Spike has recently been accepted to the [[University of California, Berkeley]], where he wishes to follow in Jimmy's footsteps and become an astronaut, though he's reluctant to actually tell his father about it since Jimmy's death. Carly, meanwhile, has been looking at art schools, but she and her father are struggling to make it work financially. Carly takes Spike's hand in hers, telling him how sorry she is about what’s going on with his family. As the two teenagers lean in closer, an earthquake shakes the ground, causing the mountain to split open and sending the two plummeting into the depths below. Recovering, they find themselves inside a giant circular structure — the booster of [[Ark (G1)|a giant spacecraft]]. Spike ventures further inside the spacecraft and finds the main control room, littered with the mangled bodies of what appears to be some sort of giant robots.

[[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] flies into the ''Ark'' and transforms, grateful to have found his fallen friends. He activates [[Teletraan I|Teletraan One]] to repair and reconstruct his fellow Cybertronians, granting them new forms he found on [[Earth]]. The first to be reactivated is [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]. Jetfire warmly greets his old friend, having not seen him in centuries. Starscream thanks Jetfire for waking him and says that he's glad he "picked the right side" before immediately turning to the nearby [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and blasting his head off. The stunned Jetfire, unaware that their people have been at war for the past hundred years, tries to stop him, but Starscream turns his weapons on his old friend for showing weakness. Starscream aims his weapon at [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] next, but he is stopped by a reconstructed [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]!

As the [[Autobot]] leader and [[Decepticon]] warrior fight, Prime notices the humans and instinctively dives to protect them from Starscream’s fire. Starscream's attack is halted by the intervention of [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], right as Teletraan One reconstructs [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]. Realizing the computer is reconstructing them randomly, Starscream tells Skywarp to bring their fellow Decepticons closer. Optimus realizes that the Decepticons will outnumber them and orders a retreat, telling Ratchet to load their fellow Autobots into his new form's trailer while he fends off their opponents. He reaches for his [[ion blaster]] but is intercepted by cannon fire from a revived [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. As he recovers, he sees Bumblebee's remains, cradling him in despair before being beset by Starscream and [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]]. Seeing this, Spike and Carly run out and push Prime's blaster to him, allowing him to fight back.

Left with no choice, Optimus fires at Teletraan One, destroying the computer and preventing the remaining Decepticons from being reconstructed. As Teletraan explodes, Optimus grabs Carly and Spike. He and Ratchet transform and drive out of the ''Ark'' into the mountains below, Starscream and Skywarp in hot pursuit despite their low [[energon]] levels. Jetfire regains consciousness and follows after them, firing on Starscream much to his regret. Starscream volleys back, critically wounding Jetfire. Fortunately for the Autobots, Skywarp begins to run out of energy and the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] are forced to retreat.

Needing to recuperate, Spike leads the Autobots to an abandoned quarry. As he succumbs to his injuries, Jetfire apologizes to Optimus; so much has changed since he left Cybertron in hopes of saving it. Optimus tries to use the [[Matrix of Leadership]] to heal Jetfire, but Ratchet tells him that his injuries are too great. Optimus grips his old friend's hand as he passes, still lamenting his failure. Back in the ''Ark'', Soundwave reports to Starscream that he is unable to fix Teletraan One, as they lack both the energon and the raw materials necessary. Until it is repaired, they are the only Decepticons left. Soundwave has already sent [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] to scout for possible energon sources, but the job of harvesting it falls to Starscream since he has the most energon reserved. Begrudgingly, Starscream accepts. After all, he is leader of the Decepticons now.

As Davey and Sparkplug end their shift at the nearby power plant, Davey tries to talk to Sparkplug about his recent troubles, but they are interrupted by the arrival of Starscream, irritated he has to be the one doing all the work. The pair try to escape, but Starscream notices them. Sparkplug hides inside the plant, while Davey is snatched up by the giant alien. Starscream smiles to himself as he crushes Davey in his hand, amused at how fragile, squishy, and pathetic the humans are.

{{--}}

==Featured characters==
Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks. 
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (2)
* [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] (11)
* [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (12)
* [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] (13)
* [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (14)
* [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (15)
* [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] (16)
* [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] (18)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]]’s arm (19)

|c2=
* [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (8)
* [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (9)
* [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] (10)
* [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] (20)
* [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] (21)
* [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (22)

|c3=
* [[Sparkplug Witwicky]] (1)
* [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (3)
* [[Danny]] (4)
* [[Jerry (G1)|Jerry]] (5)
* [[Davey]] (6)
* [[Carly]] (7)

|c4=
* [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] (17)
}}

==Quotes==
"Where are you going? Isn't that... Jimmy's?" 
"Yeah. Carly and I were going to check out the full moon tonight, remember? On top of Hanger's Rock?" 
"Looking at '''stars''' again, huh?" 
"Doing this kind of thing... it reminds me of him." 
"Why would you want to remember? It's best to '''forget''' all that." 
"Is that how you're gonna '''live''' now? Just pretending he didn't '''exist?'''" 
:—'''Sparkplug''' and '''Spike''' touch on their trauma

"You must forgive me. I have been away for centuries. I did not know about the war. I did not know you were the new Prime..." 
"I remember the day you left our home to find a way to save it." 
"And you... were so young then." 
"Much has changed since you left our planet. All for the worse." 
:—'''Jetfire''' and '''Optimus Prime''' rekindle their friendship

"Why are you all looking at '''me?'''" 
"You have the most energon reserved. Thus the harvesting is up to '''you.''' It's what Meg---" 
"'''Do not''' say his name. '''I''' am the leader of the Decepticons now."
:—'''Starscream''' and '''Soundwave'''

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* Jetfire's arrival on Earth follows from his awakening in [[Void Rivals issue 1|the first issue]] of ''[[Void Rivals]]''. How long he was asleep exactly is a little unclear. In ''Void Rivals'', he mentions being stranded for millions of years, but here he says he was away for merely centuries. Due to the syntax used, it could be that Jetfire was ''searching'' for centuries but ''asleep'' for millions of years.
* Cybertron's energon shortage was hinted at by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] in ''Void Rivals'' [[Void Rivals issue 4|#4]].
* After being attacked by Starscream, Jetfire is seen leaking yellow fluid. This would appear to confirm that the yellow fuel used by [[Darak]] and [[Solila]] to reactivate him was indeed energon.
* Soundwave and Starscream allude to the absence of the usual Decepticon leader, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Hmm... [[Cobra Commander (comic)|where could he be]]?
* Yes, Bumblebee's really dead, having been destroyed by Starscream. The other Transformers, including those like Thundercracker whose reassembly is interrupted, are just offline.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Thundercracker's not killed, he just was not fully built. [...] S'not like I shot him in the heart or something. Just FYI.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3774s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>

===Transformers references===
* Like with ''Void Rivals'', this new series draws heavy influence from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]:
** The character designs all pull directly from Generation 1.
** The ''Ark'' crashing into a mountain and the Autobots and Decepticons being repaired by Teletraan One is lifted from the premiere episode, "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]", right down to one of the Decepticons being reactivated first. The "error" of the Transformers having their Earth-inspired designs before they receive their Earth alternate modes is also carried over.
** Spike, Sparkplug, and Carly all originate from the Generation 1 cartoon, though they have been heavily reimagined, especially Carly.
* Optimus Prime gains the upper hand over Starscream with a fist and a resounding "never", similar to ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''.
* This [[Darkness Rising, Part 1|isn't the]] [[Infiltration issue 1|first time]] a new ''Transformers'' series launched with Starscream in command in lieu of Megatron.

===Real-world references===
* Sparkplug's flashbacks on the first page of the issue features imagery of Sparkplug in a conflict much like the [[Vietnam War]] and the explosion of a space shuttle reminiscent of the {{w|Space Shuttle Challenger disaster|Space Shuttle ''Challenger'' disaster}}; based on the context, it seems likely that Jimmy was one of the victims in the latter. Whether these are meant to literally be those events (which would suggest the comic is actually supposed to be set in the 1980s) or merely stylistic renderings of purely fictional events remains to be seen.
* Appropriately, Sparkplug is drinking at a {{w|Veterans of Foreign Wars|VFW}} bar.
* The drunk man raving about having seen a strange aircraft homages a similar scene from ''{{w|The Iron Giant}}'', right down to the character's design.
* Carly's van art features several staples of van murals, such as a wizard inspired by {{w|Gandalf}} from ''{{w|The Lord of the Rings}}'', a barbarian resembling {{w|Conan the Barbarian|Conan}}, and a fantasy castle and dragon.
* Spike's outfit, with a red vest and blue jeans, seems to be pretty heavily based on [[Marty McFly]]'s classic outfit from ''[[Back to the Future]]''.
* Optimus Prime enters the scene by ''clotheslining'' Starscream—this being the signature move of "Rainmaker" Kazuchika Okada, one of DWJ's favorite wrestlers.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=And of course, next we have a rainmaker clothesline, as one does. This is a wrestling move, this is one of my favorite wrestlers, Kazuchika Okada from New Japan Pro Wrestling. Of course, you know, the rainmaker, the lariat, is not new in professional wrestling, and by the end of this series it will not be new to Transformers.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2508s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref><ref>[https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34jfv6 Kazuchika Okada's Finisher- Rainmaker on Dailymotion]</ref>

===Storytelling notes===
As both writer and artist on this ''Transformers'' series, Daniel Warren Johnson has a rare level of creative freedom while composing the issue and using the art to tell the story. Some of these creative choices were covered in a "director's commentary" livestream on his YouTube channel; key insights are reproduced here alongside our own analysis of the issue.
* DWJ keeps a copy of [[IP infringement|Magic Square]]'s "Light of Peace" figure close at hand, which influences his take on Optimus Prime.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is the Optimus Prime figure that Magic Square put out this past year in 2023. It's an update, so it has a new head sculpt, it looks just like the movie, the '86 movie which of course has been my bible. He looks so good that you can actually like, kind of pose him, and he looks pretty dynamic. And I knew that, man, if the toy looks this cool in real life, then I can make him look really cool... like look at this, it looks great, he looks kind of alive.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=798s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> He notes that he specifically avoids having Prime's "boots" flare out at all; he tries to draw them perfectly straight.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Another thing that I'll notice, that I'll give you a little preview of things to come artwise: you'll see Optimus's legs, you know, traditionally, you know, he's got kind of the 1970s design aesthetic here, which I think the Marvel Comics did, where, you know, the leg kind of comes out... like so it makes kind of like a boot cut kind of style for his like lower half of his leg. And I hate drawing that. I hate drawing that. Look how straight these legs are. As this series goes on you're going to see these legs get straighter and straighter. It's a stylistic thing something that I've been kind of like- it's been bugging me about drawing Optimus Prime, and it's just, I cannot stand drawing those legs widening out at the bottom. It's like, something about it, it just like, makes my eyes hurt. I've never liked it in the comics, it always read weird to me that they got wider. Some characters- like I remember when practicing, I was drawing Jazz. Jazz gets really wide, and if it's like, if it's really confident, like big and chunky, or Cliffjumper, big, chunky, no big deal. This? Like, Optimus's legs going wider? It just like, is it going wider is it not going w- anyway these are the ramblings of a crazy lunatic comic book artist.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2699s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* His primary ''Transformers'' comics influence comes from [[Marvel Comics]] and [[Dreamwave Productions]].<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wanted to just highlight this poster that I had in my bedroom when I was like 16, when Pat Lee made this imagery. You know, I was a huge ''Transformers'' fan of course when I was growing up, and I read mostly the Marvel Comics, 'cause that was the only thing that was available at the time, and here we have the Pat Lee comics of course that Dreamwave put out. I was so excited, I thought it looked awesome. I still do appreciate its blockiness now. So this is another reason why I wanted to do the project, 'cause like I just remember these feelings, and these like super bright colors that like were so awesome... and just being excited with like every cover, and I just felt like a kid. [...] And of course this image, like this is very satisfying, I knew I didn't want to get this bulbous with the designs, but you know I can't say I wasn't influenced by the absolutely outlandishness of these kind of like larger-than-life characters, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=997s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> In the case of the latter, we'll note that [[Prime Directive|their opening miniseries]] prominently featured the ''[[Ark II]]'' disaster which drew heavily from the real-world Space Shuttle ''Challenger'' disaster.
* The first page of the story consists of five vertically-stacked cinematic landscape panels, with Sparkplug's flashbacks interspersed by a panel of the Ark crashing and of Prime's deactivated body. This gives us an idea of what's been going through Sparkplug's mind at the bar. In particular, the panel of Optimus Prime is bookended by Spike's offscreen dialogue getting his dad's attention; Prime is often positioned as something of a father figure in wider pop culture.
** At Hasbro's request, DWJ avoided being too specific as to the conflict being shown.<ref name=HasbroMandates>{{citesocial|quote=So here we've got the first page, and you can kind of see here, Hasbro wanted me to be be very like... don't show what kind of war it is... which is fine, and I did have to change these engines from three engines, which I just thought was a little cleaner, to five engines, like the Ark is, so I didn't think they'd care that much about being on model when it came to the Ark but they did!|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0?t=1316s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
** DWJ wanted to streamline the Ark's design to have just three rear thrusters, but Hasbro insisted on it having five,<ref name=HasbroMandates /> necessitating the digital addition of two more to the later splash page of the ship's engines.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So again, I had to make a bit of an edit. The original art has just three engines, so I had to add these digitally—which I did not want to do, but Hasbro wanted it, so, okay, you know? It's okay, it's okay, it's all right, it is what it is...|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1845s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* The second page aims to bring the story into reality,<ref name=Page2>{{citesocial|quote=I really wanted to go all in on the first half of this page, and like really sell to you how lived in this world is. Even though it's a ''Transformers'' book it was very important to me that we got a vibe and a sense of where the human characters come from. And there's nothing more fun, than drawing the heck out of, than like a crappy VW hall. [...] It was a hard thing to draw, but it was also fun. I had to kind of photobash a bunch of different VFW bars—obviously didn't want to take from any one specifically, or any one bar specifically, just kind of taking the best of everything and kind of combining it into one. And this bartender, Danny the bartender, I'm a big fan of, he just kind of stands there. And of course the old guy that maybe has seen something crazy... total shout out to—even his like haircut is the same as, and the hat, as—''{{w|The Iron Giant}}'', so a little shout out there. [...] It doesn't really [take place in a specific time period like the '80s or '90s] in my opinion, there might be other people in the Energon Universe that have a different time, we don't really have a time period in place. I find time periods in comics like ''Transformers'' to be completely unnecessary. If I'm trying to make historical fiction then of course it is important, but when it comes to making things like the Transformers I have just never cared. JFK is not getting assassinated in the background on television here, so it's just not part of the story. But you will notice there's no cell phones, so. But that's cuz I hate writing stories with cell phones in them.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1406s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> with much more detailed panels of varying shapes and sizes, and a muted earthen color palette.
** DWJ took reference from several different {{w|Veterans of Foreign Wars|VFW}} bars to arrive at the location seen in the comic.<ref name=Page2 />
** As Spike and Sparkplug exit, the cluttered interior gives way to the orange evening sky, with the generous negative space often physically separating Spike from his distant father.
** DWJ notes that the final panel of this spread is technically wrong; based on the perspective of the scene, Spike should be sinking into the ground. This was necessary so as not to obscure Carly's van,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I have a bit of a goof, a bit of a mistake [...] if you actually like do the perspective here, the way it should be done, it makes no sense. He would be sinking into the ground, he's like in quicksand right now, but I could not figure out a better dynamic shot choice that would show Carly and her artistic ability with this van. Like I tried to do it like this way, and it didn't really work, because it covered up too much of the van, and I realized just how big he would have to be, like his whole face would have to be like over here and it just didn't work. I wanted him to be in the middle, but then it also didn't make sense. So I was just like beating my head against the wall like, I hope this is okay, I hope people don't notice.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0?si=QxISYwvu5QpUEbhw&t=1516s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> which is the same model of vehicle that appears in DWJ's previous original comic series ''[https://www.skybound.com/murder-falcon Murder Falcon]''.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Of course the dragon wagon, the van used in ''Murder Falcon''.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1578s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> Mike Spicer has coloured the van using blue-pink tones, strongly contrasting with the orange otherwise dominating the spread. As we turn the page, these nighttime hues take over the story, marking the beginning of a transition towards the unreal.
* The mountain landscape was drawn to resemble that of an alien planet, to highlight the feeling of "otherworldliness".<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This also is one of my favorite panels in the book. I wanted to start getting a little crazy, a little more intense with the shot choices, to kind of start getting us into the vibe of otherworldliness. This looks a little bit like they're exploring Mars, that was the goal, completely clear sky, really pushing the envelope when it comes to dynamic composition.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1635s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* As the earthquake begins, we get the first instance of hand-lettered sound effects, drawn into the lineart by DWJ. These appear more prominently and frequently as we transition towards comic-book action.
[[File:TF2023 1 Splash pages composition.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2|Diagram illustrating DWJ's intended flow for the back-to-back splash pages.]]
* The reveal of the Ark is paired across the two-page spread with another splash page of the deactivated Autobots. DWJ hoped to create a seamless transition, with the reader's gaze travelling down towards the inset panels at the bottom left, then following Spike and Carly across to the right, before travelling up into the scene.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This was a goal, this was the goal: to have these pages be bleeding into each other. [...] You know I don't like to do this very often, you have like two splash pages back-to-back, because they kind of like... it gets a little messy here. But you know I usually like- if I have a big splash here [on the left], I'll usually have something a little more reserved over here [on the right], and I won't have it bleed over to the left side of the page. But with here, you'll actually notice that I was trying to get people to read from... obviously you're reading here, then you go down, left to right, into this bottom part of the page, and have your eye trail up instead of going over here [diagonally across the center fold] to the top. So I was using these kind of inset panels to kind of get you to read that way.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=1985s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> Mike Spicer's coloring (exaggerated in the diagram on the right) again reinforces this intent, with the blue shade of the rocks at the bottom of the right-hand page carrying over from the left-hand page.
** Meanwhile, all of the lines of perspective inside the room point outside, where a tiny Jetfire can be seen approaching.
* Jetfire is one of Robert Kirkman's favorite Transformers, and his role in this series came entirely from Robert Kirkman's broad-strokes outline.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=So, full disclosure: Robert Kirkman came up with the Jetfire idea. Jetfire is one of Robert's favorite Transformers, and that's why he was chosen. He's also like part of the lore and it was kind of like in this big outline that Jetfire was the one that comes in and finds the Autobots on Earth in the Ark- Autobots and Decepticons. But he doesn't have knowledge about the war. So you know I can't give away too much, but that was a Robert Kirkman call, and I was happy to do it. I was a little afraid about drawing Jetfire at first, but I'm actually- of course I write the script first where he dies, because it's just what the story needed, but then as I got to drawing him I was like, "I really like drawing this guy, I'm so sad I have to kill him!"|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3301s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* The shock death of Bumblebee was a deliberate choice, as DWJ felt like audiences would be getting a little tired of seeing Bumblebee everywhere. Surprisingly, Hasbro felt the same way, and themselves asked if there was a way to write Bumblebee out of the series! DWJ also apparently doesn't enjoy drawing Bumblebee, which informed the decision,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Let me be totally honest about the Bumblebee page, let me address this. I do really- I do like Bumblebee. I don't like drawing Bumblebee, I don't like those rivets in his arms. That's not the only reason why he had to go, I just honestly wanted to change things up. I just wanted to change things up, and I had seen a lot of Bumblebee, I think we all have, in a lot of ''Transformers'' media, and I just thought it would be a fun little swerve. And this is actually funny, our contact over at Hasbro was also a little tired of seeing Bumblebee everywhere, and he actually asked, before he saw my script, he's like, "is there any way we can not use Bumblebee in the main line?" And I told him, I was like, "I got good news for you!" He had to go, he had to go. Sorry Bumblebee fans, sorry to let you down like that, I am so sorry. They are Transformers, maybe they'll come back... but not for a long time. It's Cliff's time baby! You said it!|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2545s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> which perhaps doesn't bode too well for Cliffjumper!
* When Starscream turns on Jetfire, DWJ struggled to get the composition exactly right, as he was limited by the need to make it explicitly clear that Jetfire was gravely wounded.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=I wanted to make sure that everybody knew that Jetfire was gravely injured by this blast, which means I couldn't really white it out, had to be clear.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2498s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* Prime uses several wrestling moves on Starscream; DWJ had previously created the original comic series ''[https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/do-a-powerbomb Do A Powerbomb!]'', which had a central theme of loss—a motif which recurs throughout this first ''Transformers'' issue.
* As Starscream, Skywarp and Thundercracker look identical in black-and-white, DWJ labels them in his lineart so colorist Mike Spicer can easily distinguish.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Also notice the color notes I had to leave for Mike, because Skywarp and Starcream look exactly alike in black and white.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2839s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* Prime instinctively knowing about his trailer, and its sudden appearance in the story, is a riff on classic media where Prime's trailer would often appear and disappear out of nowhere per the needs of the story.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=This is a little shoutout to like, the not-making-any-sense of ''Transformers'', where you know, very conveniently, this trailer just shows up out of nowhere. So you know, Prime's like, "What are we going to do?" and he's like, "We could use my trailer!" Look sometimes you just have to have fun and not think too much about the story.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3131s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* As Prime's face is uniquely inexpressive, DWJ had to get creative to show his emotions to the reader, relying a lot on the character's eyes. Additionally, he tries to channel Prime's feelings through Spike.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Optimus is a character that does not emote—less so than even the rest of the cast, because of the face shield, because so much of his face is taken up, and he's really only got those eyes to work with. And I found that I was needing a way to channel Optimus through something, and I'm kind of trying to channel that through Spike, if you can't tell. I have a tendency to not be subtle, so... in life and in comics.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3516s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> When Spike sees Prime kneeling over Bumblebee's body, it seems that he recognises the grief this alien robot is experiencing.
* Amongst the many creative sound effects in this sequence, we have highlights like "GRAPPLE" and "ROLL" accompanying the action. Clicks and buzzes fill the air together with the floating components as the Transformers are reassembled.
* DWJ contrived the situation where Spike and Carly need to push Prime's gun into his reach as a way of giving the human characters agency during the action sequence.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Sliding the gun! Super fun! I rewrote this scene a few times because the humans were just sitting, screaming, you know? Spike and Carly like, "Oh my god, what's happening!?" behind some rocks, and I was like, "They need to have some agency, they need to get involved somehow." And so that is why I had them push the gun, and it forces action, it just forces movement in a story, it gives Spike personality and like bravery, and I'm very happy with this moment. It's very hard to not just write fight scenes where it's just like fight fight fight fight fight, and finding new ways to tie everybody together, and I wish I had more time to do this but of course we work in genre fiction where there are deadlines, and sometimes that can't happen, but I was glad that I was able to figure this one out.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=3543s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> The "SKRKK" sound effect of the gun scraping along the floor is drawn to follow the lines of action.
* When Prime gives the order to "Transform and roll out!", the ''entire comic'' shifts to a landscape orientation, requiring you to physically turn the comic in your hands. This is awesome.
* Ratchet's updated alternate mode came simply from a dissatisfaction with his classic Nissan look.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Any reason you went with a more modern style van, a Ford Transit rather than the traditional Nissan Vanette for Ratchet? You know what, I just didn't like the way the Nissan looked, so I just, I really wanted something different. I just wanted something different, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=2966s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* DWJ was keen to develop the Decepticons beyond their classic cartoonishly-evil characterisation, with a key example in this issue being Soundwave's clear concern for the injured Ravage.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=It's all about this, baby. It's all about trying to give some... you know... something other than... "The Decepticons are all evil, raah!" Like, Soundwave is a bad dude—but man, he loves his tapes, and one of these tapes is hurting bad and he's feeling real bad about it.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=4410s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref>
* For Davey's gruesome death at the hand of Starscream, Hasbro requested it occur off-panel. The beat was intended to clearly set the stakes of the comic without being egregiously gory,<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Hasbro asked for Davey to be killed offscreen, which I was totally fine with. Did want to get kind of messy with it, though, because I did want to kind of make a little bit of a statement. You know, it's a book that your kids can read, but you know, not everybody's going to make it, so.|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0&t=4593s|name=Daniel Warren Johnson|site=YouTube|title=TRANSFORMERS Issue 1 DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARY|year=2023|month=10|day=06}}</ref> and seems to mark a major turning point for Sparkplug.

===Errors===
* Bumblebee's body is seen near Optimus Prime’s trailer, despite him being across the ship near Teletraan One when Starscream blew his head open.
* When Starscream is forced to break off his pursuit of the Autobots, his speech balloon is pointing to Skywarp.

===Other trivia===
* Prior to its official release, an ashcan copy of this issue was available exclusively at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2023. The ashcan had certain pages taken out to prevent spoilers, as well as featuring concept art and designs for various characters.
* In early solicitations for this issue, the cover had an original logo with blue text broken over two lines;<ref>[https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/AUG230407 ''Transformers'' #1 CVR A JOHNSON on PREVIEWSworld]</ref> the final cover uses the standard modern logo, leaving some unsightly negative space above Prime's head. This was changed at the request of Hasbro.
* This issue sold out at the distributor level before it was even officially released, prompting Skybound to announce a second printing the day before it hit retailer shelves.

===Covers===
{{comicstub|27/52 covers documented}}
* '''Cover A:''' Optimus Prime emerges from an explosion, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover B:''' The Autobots, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover C:''' The Decepticons, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover D:''' Optimus Prime destroys Starscream, by [[Ryan Ottley]].
* '''Cover E (1:10 Copy Incentive):''' Connecting cover, by [[Orlando Arocena]].
* '''Cover F (1:25 Copy Incentive):''' Optimus leaps on Starscream to save Carly's van as Laserbeak and Ravage attack, by [[Cliff Chiang]].
* '''Cover G (1:50 Copy Incentive):''' Optimus Prime, by [[Francis Manapul]].
* '''Cover H (1:100 Copy Incentive):''' Starscream holds Bumblebee’s head, by [[Ian Bertram]].
* '''Cover I:''' Blank sketch cover.
* '''Second printing cover A:''' Optimus Prime, by [[Jason Howard]].
* '''Second printing cover B:''' Starscream, by [[Jason Howard]].
* '''Second printing cover C:''' The 'Bots, by [[Lewis LaRosa]] and [[Rico Renzi]].
* '''Second printing cover D:''' The 'Cons, by [[Lewis LaRosa]] and [[Rico Renzi]].
* '''Second printing cover E:''' Bumblebee's fate, by [[Greg Tocchini]].
* '''Alan Quah exclusive:'''
* '''Comic Grail Vault exclusive:'''
* '''Felix Comic Art exclusive A:''' Wraparound cover of Optimus Prime playing basketball against the Decepticons, by Daniel Warren Johnson & Mike Spicer.
* '''Felix Comic Art exclusive B:''' Black-and-white virgin version.
* '''Memory Lane Comics exclusive:'''
* '''Ryan Barry exclusive:'''
* '''San Diego Comic-Con Ashcan cover A:''' Spike atop Optimus Prime, by Daniel Warren Johnson and Mike Spicer.
* '''San Diego Comic-Con Ashcan cover B:''' Black-and-white version, only available at Skybound's Energon Universe convention panel.
* '''Skottie Young exclusive:'''
* '''Stadium Comics exclusive:'''
* '''The 616 Comics exclusive:'''
* '''Things From Another World exclusive:'''
* '''ForbiddenPlanet exclusive (Limited to 1000 copies):'''

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 1 cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers01B Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers01C Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers01D Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers01E Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers01F Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers01G Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 cvr H.jpg|
File:Transformers01I Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 2nd ptg cvr A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 2nd ptg cvr B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 2nd ptg cvr C.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 2nd ptg cvr D.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 2nd ptg cvr E.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Alan Quah cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Comic Grail Vault cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers01-FelixComicArtA Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Felix Comic Art cvr B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Memory Lane Comics cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Ryan Barry cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 SDCC AC cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 SDCC AC cvr B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Skottie Young cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Stadium Comics cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 The 616 Comics cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 1 Things From Another World cvr.jpg|
File:Transformers_2023_1_ForbiddenPlanet_cvr.jpg|
</gallery>

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==External links==
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joUZgObXmU0 Director's commentary by Daniel Warren Johnson]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) issues]]

File:Transformers 2023 1 ForbiddenPlanet cvr.jpg

2023-10-15T13:33:41Z

Thunderwave: {{SkyboundEU |description= {{art|art=Flaviano}} |series=transformers |cover=ForbiddenPlanet exclusive cover (limited to 1000 copies) |excerpt= |issueno=1 | storylink= |storytitle= |year=23 }} ~~~~