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Optimus Prime (Movie)

2011-06-07T12:55:09Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Titan Magazines post-Revenge of the Fallen comics */

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:''Optimus Prime is the [[Autobot]] leader from the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] [[Continuity family|continuity family]]. He has [[Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots|sometimes]] used the codename '''10-22'''.''

[[Image:Movieprime meettheautobots.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Hello, pretty bird. GIVE ME YOUR FACE.]]

'''Optimus Prime''' is the leader of the [[Autobot]]s. Long ago, he was the humble leader of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s science division, which studied the [[AllSpark]], and were protected by [[Lord High Protector]] [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'s military. When Megatron was corrupted by [[The Fallen]], Optimus discovered that he was the last of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], hidden away when The Fallen destroyed their lineage. In response to Megatron's attempts to seize the AllSpark and conquer other worlds, Optimus assumed his proper [[Prime (rank)|title]] and rallied the Autobots to stand against the [[Decepticon]]s.

As obsessively as Megatron strives to achieve his objective, Optimus is equally as dedicated to stopping him, even at the cost of his life, his world, and—if necessary—his own people. It was on his order that the AllSpark was jettisoned into space, dooming Cybertron to a slow death and his people to a nomadic life. The sacrifices he has made weigh heavily on his [[spark]], but they must be done, for there is no other choice. He knows the ambitions that lurk in Megatron's spark, and they must never see the light of day. Lives must be kept free from the threat of Megatron's tyranny, no matter the cost.

{{bigquote|Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.|Optimus Prime reflecting on his past|''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''}}

==Fiction==
===IDW ''Transformers'' movie prequel comics===

It was Optimus Prime's [[Prima|ancestor]] who finally vanquished [[the Fallen]] to another [[sarcophagus|dimension]] in the battle for the [[Matrix of Leadership]], {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}} but his orphaned descendant who was hidden away from the Fallen grew up with no knowledge of what he was. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen issue 3|Revenge of the Fallen Adaptation issue 3}}

[[Image:Foundation1-literaldawn.jpg|left|thumb|300px|He's right, an actual literal dawn ''was'' involved. Put those knives away, English majors.]]

Eons after the [[Dynasty of Primes]] were vanquished, Cybertron fell into dark times. The AllSpark had been buried somewhere within Cybertron and been dismissed as a legend, and the planet itself lacked a star to orbit. As energy became more and more scarce, Cybertronians segregated into tribes. [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|Sentinel Prime]], a being who claimed to be descended from [[Primus]] himself, found Optimus and recruited him into his cause. {{storylink|Foundation issue 1|Foundation #1}} Optimus and [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] helped Sentinel Prime locate the AllSpark and harness a star for Cybertron to orbit, and these fantastic acts united Cybertron for the first time in known history. But Sentinel Prime had grown old and weary and refused to lead the Cybertronians, and, in confidence, he revealed to Optimus that he was a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]], and that he ought to succeed him as leader. But Optimus could not believe he was a Prime. Sentinel, understanding Optimus's skeptical attitude, encouraged him to investigate the Primes so he would truly believe in his lineage. Sentinel redrew his plans for Cybertron, having Optimus lead the archaeological [[Science Division]], while placing Megatron in charge of Cybertron's [[Defense Force]]. {{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}} Little did they know that Megatron had been eavesdropping, and Optimus's brother came to a jealousy-inspired conclusion. He didn't believe Optimus Prime had the ability to competently lead Cybertron, and that this series of events would one day pit the two against each other, until one was dead. Megatron vowed that it would not be him. {{storylink|Foundation issue 1|Foundation #1}}

[[Image:Defiance1 Megs Prime argument.jpg|right|350px|thumb|"Hey, I wanted a mouthplate!"]]

For two generations, Optimus and Megatron ruled Cybertron together. The two personalities created a balance; Prime was fair while Megatron was firm. {{storylink|Movie Prequel issue 1|Movie Prequel #1}} After an increase in [[Malcontent]]s disrupting Sentinel's order, Megatron intimidated Optimus into giving him supreme power in defense of the planet. {{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}} When ''Lord'' Protector Megatron toured the excavation site near the temple at [[Simfur]], he and Optimus clashed over several issues. While Optimus wanted to take the investigation slowly, all Megatron cared about was whether the site contained power similar to the AllSpark. Optimus nettled Megatron when he reminded the Protector that the science sector was in charge of scientific and archaeological discoveries, and that the defense forces had a tendency to treat such discoveries as hostile, to which Megatron responded that if and when he was leader, he could make such decisions. When a [[The Fallen|mysterious relic]] was uncovered, Optimus disagreed with Megatron's order for it to be removed from the ground. Just as the two were about to launch into yet another argument, aliens previously encountered by Commander [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] attacked Cybertron. Megatron blackmailed Optimus into moving the relic into his personal quarters by reminding the science leader that the science division would like to protect the only intact relic from harm. {{storylink|Defiance issue 1|Defiance #1}}

Optimus ordered his science teams to help the survivors on both sides, in the hopes of finding out who was responsible and why they attacked. While he went off to find Megatron, he ordered the others to continue searching for survivors while [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]] examined the alien remains. Optimus was shocked and appalled when Megatron ordered him to marshal his forces for war. Optimus objected, as his science division was not trained for combat, but Megatron retorted that the scientists should have known that aliens were after the AllSpark. He endured Megatron's insane fury when he accused the Protector of betraying that upon which their society was built. Later, Optimus called upon a meeting with his science division to ask them to stay by his side and continue on with their mission of peaceful research, as they were protectors, not soldiers. While the aerial-based Cybertronians followed Megatron into space, Optimus confided in [[Prowl (Movie)|Prowl]] and [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] that Megatron sought to divide their planet, and he asked the former for help breaking into the High Protector's personal quarters. {{storylink|Defiance issue 2|Defiance #2}}

[[Image:Defiance3_OptimusPrime_battle.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Man...Prime ain't foolin' around.]]

After noting that Megatron had restored the artifact to pristine condition, Optimus had to leave the military leader's quarters just before he returned. Back at Burthov, he came upon [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], Arcee, and [[Elita-One (Movie)|Elita-One]] scanning the pieces of the other artifacts. Arcee then discovered that the pieces all contained the same symbol on them, and that the same symbol was on Optimus' head. Ratchet declared that the symbol was proof of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and it indicated Optimus himself was a [[Dynasty of Primes|Prime]]. Ratchet and the other Autobots began to dub him "Optimus Prime", although a humble Optimus noted they did not know what it meant and for all they knew, he could just be from a line of record clerks. As they discussed the revelations, Prowl was forced by Megatron to arrest Optimus, but this turned out to be a trap to kill him. Optimus bested Starscream, while Megatron formed his new faction, the [[Decepticon]]s. {{storylink|Defiance issue 3|Defiance #3}}

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{{storylink|Foundation issue 3|Foundation #3}}

[[Image:Ark Bridge Defiance4.jpg||thumb|300px|right|]]
Retreating to Burthov with his fellow scientists and Prowl's security officers, Optimus was acknowledged as the leader of the group, with Prowl serving as his lieutenant. He and Prowl were discussing sites for a new base when Jazz informed them that Captain Ironhide of the [[Defense Force]] wanted to see Optimus. Learning of Megatron's new starship, the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'', Optimus Prime was convinced by his advisers that their side needed a [[Ark (Movie)|ship of their own]] to prepare for any eventualities. The Autobots found themselves at an advantage when the ''Nemesis'' left Cybertron with the balance of the Decepticon forces, and Optimus himself took the fight to their enemies.

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{{storylink|Foundation issue 3}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 4}}

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{{storylink|Foundation issue 1}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 2}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 3}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 4}}

However, years of bloody war devastated the planet, and Optimus saw no end in sight, unless the main reason for fighting was removed from the conflict. He revealed his plan to capture the AllSpark, and most assumed the Autobots would somehow take it aboard their ship. But Optimus's real plan was to blast the Cube into deep space, away from Cybertron and away from Megatron. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

[[Image:Optimusprimemovieprequel.jpg|left|200px|thumb|All Primes are required to have window boobs.]]

The AllSpark was successfully ejected into space at [[Tyger Pax]], where [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] distracted Megatron. Prime and the Autobots were held up in [[Simfur]] during the launch. {{storylink|Movie Prequel issue 1|Movie Prequel #1}} As they prepared to leave Cybertron on board the ''[[Ark (Movie)|Ark]]'' to go after the AllSpark, Optimus Prime had some doubts about his decision, feeling that in buying them some time in the war, he had sentenced their world to death. [[Prowl (Movie)|Prowl]] disagreed, pointing out that had Megatron been able to claim the Cube, all those that opposed him would have been destroyed, and that Prime had turned death into a fighting chance for the Autobots. Bolstered by Prowl's words, Prime resolved to rebuild their shattered home once they retrieved the AllSpark. {{storylink|The Reign of Starscream Issue Number One}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Beginnings''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Bumblebee remembered Optimus Prime's orders that they must launch the AllSpark into space, for it was better to lose it to the depths of space than allow Lord Megatron to corrupt it with his evil. For wherever there is hope, there is life. {{storylink|Transformers: Beginnings}}

{{note|Transformers: Beginnings is a condensed, flash-animated retelling of the [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] [[Movie Prequel]] that is detailed above this section.}}

===Titan Magazines ''Transformers'' movie comics===
[[Image:OptimusMovie_GeoffSenior.JPG|250px|thumb|Starting as he means to go on.]]

When war broke out, Optimus studied the entire history of intergalactic warfare from any datatrack he could find—he studied whole campaigns to desperate last stands, gaining a focused "playbook" of warfare strategy. He understands warfare on a practical and psychological level, and in desperate battles knows to show no mercy to opponents beyond a swift death. <ref>''Autobot VS Decepticon Smackdown! - Megatron V. Optimus Prime'', #4</ref>

Optimus was the focus of constant attacks by assassin drones and killed them all. In the aftermath of one, he witnessed a prophetic vision of the [[Mission City]] battle and realised the AllSpark's ejection could spread war to other planets—but too late to stop the launch... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 1|Prelude: Optimus Prime}}

{{note|The following event is unique to the Titan Magazines comics continuity, and thus does not occur anywhere else.}}

Almost immediately after the final battle against Megatron, Optimus Prime had to lead the Autobots against a horde of [[Zombie|zombie]] Decepticons. Despite having no idea how they could be stopped and having had his power drained by fighting Megatron, Optimus continued to fight the monsters rather than let them run amok. Ratchet worked out a solution just in time before Optimus fell. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 7|Starscream's Militia}}

{{notetitantlg}}

In the alternate reality, Megatron defeated Optimus and took the AllSpark at [[Mission City]]. Prime's body was now partially frozen and in Decepticon hands. He was the last and only hope of the Earth resistance, and so Bumblebee and [[Mikaela Banes]] were not happy to find him offline. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 9|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 1}}

She thawed him out while Bumblebee distracted Megatron, and the revived Prime challenged Megatron to a solo duel... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 12|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 4}} Unfortunately, Megatron's link to the AllSpark meant Optimus could not do any lasting damage and was never going to win. Luckily, Bumblebee and Mikaela saved the day, hitting the distracted Megatron with an old [[Sector Seven]] nanovirus. (Which means ''they'' were the last and only hope, but oh well.) Despite Megatron dying as a result and the AllSpark being destroyed elsewhere, Prime could take no satisfaction in victory: this battle was won, but the war remained... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 13|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 5}}

[[Image:Optimus_Titan12.JPG|left|250px|thumb|"Megatron's face must be cut off...no MATTER THE COST!"]]

He became resigned to the fact that Humanity, battered by Decepticon occupation, would view both Autobot and Decepticon as hostile invaders. When [[NATO]] was manipulated into attacking the Autobots, Optimus refused to allow his men to return fire, and after the crisis passed, he was sure that [[Starscream (Movie)|the Decepticons' unknown new commander]] was up to something bigger. Optimus also placed the last AllSpark fragment in the care of Ratchet, though he was worried exposure to Megatron might have corrupted it. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 14|Aftermath Part 1}} {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 15|Aftermath Part 2}} He was ''not'' happy when Ratchet "took care" of the fragment by bringing [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] back with it, who was left corrupted and amoral by it. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 16|Dark Spark}}

Optimus Prime soon worked out that while the AllSpark's transformation of Earth had been halted, the damage had been done: the organic Earth and the technological transformation were now fighting for supremacy, killing the planet in the process. He called in a specialist team to investigate and limit the damage, while working with [[President of the United States|President Allen]]. In secret, he organised for [[Nucleon]] to be retrieved from the dead Cybertron and brought to Earth, as there was a long shot it could save the planet. He didn't tell the humans out of concern that if they knew about the plan and it failed, their hopes would be raised and dashed. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 17|Return to Cybertron: Part 1}} It was bad enough that Nucleon was so unstable it could turn destructive... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 18|Return to Cybertron: Part 2}}

When the team on Cybertron sent a distress signal and reported [[Stockade (Movie)|Stockade's]] Decepticons had captured the Nucleon, Optimus led the entirety of the Earth-bound Autobots (save Camshaft's team) to Cybertron as back-up. He was then surprised to see Cybertron coming to ''them'', looking [[Unicron|a lot meaner these days]]. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 19|Return to Cybertron: Part 3}} The planet's possessor, Unicron, shot down the Straxus and the Autobots survived only by evacuating it in time in [[protoform]] modes.

Optimus landed next to Stockade's old equipment and, after being filled in by [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], he effortlessly formed an alliance with Stockade against Unicron. His plan was to drain the Nucleon away so Unicron couldn't use it as a power source, while the bulk of the Transformers provided a distraction, which turned out to be going underground and shooting up Unicron's body. The plan worked, Nucleon was secured for Earth, and Optimus extended an offer for Stockade to join them on Earth whenever he wished. Optimus was left optimistic that Autobots and Decepticons had come together in a common cause. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 20|Return to Cybertron: Part 4}}

On returning to Earth, he found the Decepticons had seized the Autobot base and six hundred square miles around it; he made the decision to withdraw to [[Washington, D.C.]], knowing that this meant leaving Mikaela in Decepticon hands. Upon landing at an air base, the Decepticon-controlled President Allen lured him into a trap, and he found himself fighting Jazz, now a Decepticon hired gun. Optimus lured him away from humans and prepared to engage him, but when a second assassin named [[Kullt]] turned up, Jazz gunned it down out of annoyance. Optimus had viewed Jazz as a lost cause but now stated there was still some Autobot in him: he ''could'' have let Kullt do the work for him and then killed him, but he saved Prime instead.

The battle made it clear to Optimus that Allen was under Decepticon mental control. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 21|Hard Target}}

[[Image:Optimus Titan22.JPG|200px|thumb|Freedom is not dispensed here, sentient fools, only DEATH!]]

As he'd promised Bumblebee, Optimus took the Autobots to get Mikaela back; he himself went first, launching himself in [[Protoform|protoform]] mode to land in Savannah like a bomb and tearing his way through [[Swindle (Movie)|drone hordes]]. He was quickly gunned down by aerial units and about to be killed by Starscream, but this whole flashy attack had been a diversion—allowing other Autobots a chance to hit the distracted air forces and nab Mikaela. After the battle, Optimus remarked Starscream was no Megatron. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 22|The Decepticon Who Haunted Himself}}

Optimus seemed to quickly bond with [[General Seward]], his military liaison at Andrews Air Base, but that didn't help when the mind-controlled President Allen had the government order the Autobots out of America. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 23|Revolution Part One}} However, Prime had anticipated this. Almost two weeks before, he'd had Ironhide task [[Tom Banachek]] to identify all the Decepticon puppets for him. With Allen making the expected move, he dispatched Ironhide and Bumblebee to set things up so that the following day, when the Autobots all departed, Allen would try to nuke them out of the sky and be fooled by a decoy ship into thinking he'd killed them. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 25|Revolution Part Three}}

To protect the Earth while they were undercover on Cybertron, Optimus had made a deal with Stockade to start a [[Decepticon Civil War]]. Optimus didn't trust Stockade to not renege on the deal and just take control of Earth for himself, {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 24|Revolution Part Two}} but he ensured the Decepticons were set up for the Autobot's final strike: forcibly teleporting all of the enemy to Cybertron via Unicron's leftover teleportational engines, then stranding Cybertron in a remote solar system. Optimus led the troops to Earth and witnessed Megatron's return from the dead... only to ''thwack'' him flying. The next minute, both Megatron ''and'' Stockade (why wait for him to renege?) were teleported away, along with their forces.

This left the Autobots stranded on Earth and with a lot of clean-up to do. But Optimus had ''finally'' brought about the end of the war... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 25|Revolution Part Three}}
{{-}}

===''Ghosts of Yesterday''===
Optimus Prime led the search for the AllSpark in the ''[[Ark (Movie)|Ark]]'', a transport vessel. When they came across an abandoned solar system, they located [[Ghost 1|a vessel]] of strangely Cybertronian design, seemingly of Decepticon make. When the vessel fled to the surface of a planet, Prime dispatched Bumblebee to investigate while he and the other Autobots battled Decepticons from the ''[[Nemesis (Movie)|Nemesis]]''. Prime managed to defeat [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], and [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]] all on his own. After losing touch with Bumblebee, Prime went down to locate him on the planet, where they were attacked by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and the alien ship. They fell into a cavern network, where they were further attacked by [[Worm-thing|indigenous worms]].

During their flight from the creatures, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee came across the alien vessel. Prime realized that they were trying to surrender, so the Autobots communicated with its crew. Optimus explained that they came in peace, "freedom is the right of all sentient beings," Starscream tricks everyone, and so on. However, the creatures, who called themselves "[[Human|humans]]", explained that they held Megatron, whom they called the Ice Man, on their home world, [[Earth]]. Realizing the destruction Megatron would wreak upon the humans if he escaped, and that the humans would be unable to defend themselves effectively, Prime vowed to see them return to their world to warn it. Prime was able to blast an opening in the cavern, and the group escaped. As they returned to the ''Ark'', Prime began to speculate that the AllSpark was what drew Megatron to Earth.

In the ensuing battle with the Decepticons, Prime was in the difficult position of fighting Starscream and protecting the human ship. His distractions allowed Bonecrusher to spear him with his tail. The difficult state nearly gave Starscream the chance to kill him, but the humans saved Prime's life by damaging Starscream, who destroyed them. Optimus Prime was inspired by their courage and sacrifice, and resolved to locate Earth before the Decepticons did—and hopefully before Megatron came back online. {{storylink|Ghosts of Yesterday}}

===''Transformers'' (2007) film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Tesshō Genda]] (Japanese), [[Guilherme Briggs]] (Brazil), [[Reiner Schöne]] (German), [[Alessandro Rossi]] (Italian), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Guy Nadon]] (French-Canadian)

{{bigquote|A necessary sacrifice to bring peace to this planet. We cannot let the humans pay for our mistakes.|Optimus Prime on sacrificing his life to destroy the [[AllSpark]]}}

[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime protoform.jpg|right|220px|thumb|Having overenergized the previous night, Prime woke up abandoned in a field, with his wallet and clothes stolen.]]
The leader of the Autobots, Optimus Prime, came to Earth shortly after [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] sent his comrades a beacon. Upon atmospheric reentry, Prime managed to land outside of [[Tranquility]]'s inhabited areas. While Sam and Mikaela watched, Optimus transformed and left his landing place. From atop a hill, he quickly scanned the form of an Earth truck, thus configuring his body to transform into it. Prime, [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], and [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] met up with Bumblebee and his human friends, [[Sam Witwicky]] and [[Mikaela Banes]] in an alley. In one of the most extended [[Transformation|transformations]] in the multiverse, Prime assumed his robotic form before the stunned humans. After confirming Sam's identity, Prime introduced himself and his team. When Mikaela asked of the Autobots' intentions, Prime explained the search for the AllSpark, the betrayal of Megatron, and why Sam was important to their search.

[[Image:Movie PrimeSam parentsfreakout.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Optimus Prime will watch you fornicate. And there is nothing you can do about it.]]
Glasses that belonged to Sam's ancestor, [[Archibald Witwicky|Captain Archibald Witwicky]], contained the location of the AllSpark encoded across its lenses, so Optimus Prime ordered his troops to wait outside Sam's house while Sam and Mikaela searched inside for the glasses. Much to Sam's exasperation, Optimus Prime, in his impatience, clumsily ruined his parents' garden, and the Autobots' heavy footsteps convinced them there was an earthquake. Prime's attempts to hide, such as having the Autobots transform into vehicle mode right in the backyard, were also less than satisfactory. Ultimately, Sam came so close to a panic attack that Prime was forced to order the Autobots to fall back. As Prime lectured his team on their supposed inability to remain quiet, Ratchet got himself shocked by walking into some powerlines, causing further problems. When [[Ron Witwicky|the]] [[Judy Witwicky|parents]] came to investigate, Prime's attempt to avoid discovery caused the house to shake, though this was to their benefit, as the father assumed that the damage to the yard was the result of an earthquake. Ironhide suggested that they kill the parents, but Optimus scolded his old friend. Despite all this, their presence remained undetected until [[Sector Seven]] arrived (in a convoy of GMC Yukons) and abducted Sam, Mikaela, and Sam's parents.

[[Image:Movie Optimus Prime S7 mad.JPG|right|300px|thumb|Get out of the car...what's left of it anyway!]]
Optimus Prime sent the Autobots in pursuit of the SUV that contained Sam, Mikaela, and Sector Seven's director, [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]]. Prime intercepted the vehicle carrying their young human friends, ripping the roof of the vehicle off, with the other Autobots disarming the agents, and made it perfectly clear to Simmons how pissed off he was at him for trying to apprehend the two children, regarding this as a bad move on Simmons' behalf. Optimus then ordered his comrades to relieve the agents of their weapons, and attempted to interrogate Simmons. The agents' lack of surprise at their appearance indicated that they had seen Cybertronians before, but Simmons refused to reveal any information. With a Sector Seven backup team en route, Prime ordered the Autobots to scatter, while he took Sam and Mikaela. While hiding under a bridge, Mikaela and Sam slipped and fell off Prime's shoulder. Bumblebee managed to catch them before impact, but was captured, and Sam and Mikaela recaptured, by the organization after their retreat. Now in possession of the glasses which could tell him the location of the AllSpark, Optimus regretfully left Bumblebee in Sector Seven's hands, knowing that if they went after him, they would have to use deadly force.

After regrouping the next day, Prime used the glasses to locate the AllSpark. Jazz again raised objections to leaving Bumblebee behind, but Prime remained firm in his belief of not harming the humans. Ironhide seemed okay with using deadly force, stating the humans were too violent, but Prime countered that when their time had come, the Cybertronians had been [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|little different]]. Going on to explain the potential he saw in the humans, as well as reminding them that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings", Prime revealed to the Autobots his real plan for the AllSpark: if they could not defeat the Decepticons, Prime intended to merge the Cube with his [[Spark|spark]]. Though this would destroy the AllSpark, Ratchet cautioned Prime against this, as it would also kill him. Prime believed that this was acceptable, vowing not to let another race suffer the mistakes of the Transformers. The glasses placed the AllSpark at [[Hoover Dam]] where, luckily, Bumblebee and the young humans were taken.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime sword.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Swiss army Prime.]]
Optimus Prime's team met up with Sector Seven, Bumblebee, Sam, and Mikaela en route, who had planned to hide the AllSpark in nearby [[Mission City]]. While on the highway, he was attacked by [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]], who managed to tackle Optimus and drag him over the edge of a freeway overpass. During the battle, Optimus struck the rage-filled Transformer so hard his [[Optic|optic]] popped out. As the Decepticon swung his claw wildly, Optimus drew his sword from his right arm and sliced off one of Bonecrusher's arms, before brutally finishing off his enemy by [[Decapitation|driving the blade through]] Bonecrusher's neck, severing his head.

Optimus arrived at Mission City just in time to observe Megatron discarding the remains of Jazz, and challenged him. Millennia in the ice had done nothing to lessen Megatron's hatred of his brother, and he launched himself in jet mode at the Autobot leader. Optimus leaped and grabbed hold of the wings, which was a really bad idea, as Megatron drove himself and Prime through an office block. As they flew out of the building onto the street below, Megatron transformed and leapt on top of Prime, declaring the humans undeserving of life. Prime rejected his claims, saying that they deserved to choose for themselves. Megatron threw Prime across the street, declaring that if he wished to defend the humans, Prime could die with them. He then formed his [[Fusion cannon|fusion cannon]] from his forearms. The power up time allowed Prime to draw his [[Ion blaster|ion blaster]] and fire, hitting Megatron. The Decepticon used the momentum to spin around, then used the fusion cannon to blast Prime across the street into another building. Megatron then resumed the hunt for Sam and the AllSpark.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime truck.jpg|right|300px|thumb|He knows he's a sexy truck.]]
Tracking Megatron to the deserted building, Prime barely managed to catch Sam after Megatron knocked him off the roof. Telling the boy to hold onto the Cube, Prime attempted to scale down the building, but Megatron jumped on Prime, causing them both to fall down hard onto the street below. Sam survived, however, and Optimus told the boy that if he could not defeat Megatron, Sam must put the AllSpark into his chest which would destroy it. As Sam sought cover, Optimus faced down Megatron, and informed him that, "At the end of this day, one shall stand, one shall fall". Unfortunately, Megatron, even after years of stasis, proved to be far too powerful for Prime to defeat alone. The unit led by Lennox and the Raptor squadron laid down suppressing fire as Megatron reached for the AllSpark, until Optimus finally took him down by sweeping his legs. Still, Megatron continued, crawling toward the cube. Believing he had lost, Optimus implored Sam to put the AllSpark into his chest. Sam instead thrust it into Megatron's chest, killing the Decepticon leader and destroying the AllSpark.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime AllSpark shard.jpg|left|300px|thumb|The Autobot [[Matrix of Leadership|Dorito of leadership]]]]
As Optimus watched his brother die, he regretfully said there was little other choice. He also told Sam he owed him a debt of gratitude for saving his life, but was then informed that Jazz had not survived (Jazz was flapping around disrespectfully like a ragdoll during this sequence). Prime briefly eulogized his comrade, then commented that they had gained new comrades in the humans, and was honored by their bravery. Bumblebee, who had finally regained his voice, requested permission to remain with Sam Witwicky, to which the young human eagerly agreed, and Optimus approved. He noticed a fragment of the AllSpark in Megatron's chest cavity and removed it, then permitted the humans to dispose of the Decepticon corpses by dumping them into the deepest part of the ocean.

[[Image:Movie Optimus ending.JPG|right|300px|thumb|[['Til all are one]]!]]
Though Megatron was killed and his Decepticons were defeated, the AllSpark was destroyed, leaving the Autobots unable to restore Cybertron. The Autobots elected to remain on Earth, and Prime sent a message into deep space to any surviving Autobots in the Galaxy to come to their new home on Earth, their long years of searching having finally having come to an end. As the other Autobots rested (and watched Sam and Mikaela make out on Bumblebee's hood) Optimus Prime looked to the sky, hoping his message had been heard. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)|Transformers}}
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{{note|The [[Movie Adaptation Issue Number Four|comic book adaptation]] depicts Optimus Prime also defeating [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] during the highway altercation with Bonecrusher. However, the later comic [[The Reign of Starscream Issue Number One|''The Reign of Starscream'' #1]] depicts Ironhide doing the deed.}}
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===Toy bios===
{{notemoviebio}}

That truck he transcanned was ''the coolest thing he ever saw''. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Voyager Class toys|Robo-Vision Optimus Prime}}

When the AllSpark was destroyed, Optimus was ''bathed'' in its power and became a living receptacle: he could destroy or heal with the merest thought. He still remained dedicated to peace, and altered his exterior decorations to match the ones he bore as a young leader, before the beginning of the war. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Voyager Class toys|First Strike Optimus Prime}}

When the war turned out to ''not'' be over though, and with more Decepticons appearing on Earth, he was forced to alter himself to be used for stealth missions—something he finds dishonourable but knows has to be done. He is now sensor transparent and silent. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Leader Class toys|Nightwatch Optimus Prime}} In this form, he came under surprise attack by an equally stealth-modified Starscream, leader of the new Decepticons! {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Legends Class toys|Nightwatch Optimus Prime vs. Stealth Starscream}}

Once the Decepticons were beaten on Earth, Optimus was given intelligence by [[Sector Seven]]. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Fast Action Brawlers|Fire Blast Optimus Prime}}

===Beast Wars Diorama Story===
[[Beast Wars (event)|On Earth in the past and in another universe]], a contingent of [[Maximal]]s, led by [[Optimus Primal]], battled a group of [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] in a forest. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Convoy Chapter}}

Some time into the battle, a warp opened, bringing with it [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], Optimus Prime, and [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]]. Optimus Prime made fast friends with [[Optimus Primal]]; they joined their forces and double-teamed the injured [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], who had just taken a blast to the face from [[Tigatron]]. Starscream then joined the Predacons. The two Optimuses commemorated their accomplishment of teamwork by shaking hands. The Maximals and Ratchet looked up with approval. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Tigatron Chapter}} [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] later appeared and joined the Predacons. As the battled raged, the [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] from Prime's universe came in through the warp. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Gimlet Chapter}}

The Decepticon Megatron brought along [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]], and the two Megatrons combined their troops into a fearsome force against the Autobots and Maximals. Fortuantely for the Autobots and Maximals, [[Motorarm (BWII)|Motorarm]] arrived to assist. The two factions then took formation against each other with the intention of combining their energies to attack the opposing side. With [[Motorarm (BWII)|Motorarm]] leading the charge, the Maximals and the Autobots attacked first. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Motorarm Chapter}}

===IDW ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===
[[Image:AllianceOptimusHoloDriver.jpg|right|250px|thumb|[[Peter Cullen|Optimus Prime]] driving Optimus Prime! Sheer awesomeness!]]

Following the battle of [[Mission City]], and the destruction of Megatron and the AllSpark, Optimus Prime was left to ferry the body of his first lieutenant [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] out of the city in an abandoned trailer. Trusting [[William Lennox|Captain Lennox]] and his men, Prime asked the human soldiers to help the Autobots escape from the city, before [[Sector Seven]] and other untrustworthy humans could arrive. A month later, [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]] managed to convince Lennox and [[Robert Epps|Sergeant Epps]] to call upon the assistance of Optimus Prime and the Autobots to escort the Decepticon remains, thereby hopefully reactivating the Decepticon [[Wreckage (Movie)|Wreckage]] somehow. {{storylink|Alliance issue 1|Alliance #1}}

Optimus, Ironhide, Ratchet and Bumblebee arrived at Sector Seven's Nevada desert base to escort to a naval base at [[California|San Diego, California]]. Optimus insisted on escorting Jazz's remains personally, and thanked Lennox for arranging a proper burial-at-sea for his fallen lieutenant. When he noticed the AllSpark shard seemingly reacting to the Decepticon bodies, he handed the fragment to [[Professor Vine]] for safekeeping until he returned. Shortly after leaving the base, Optimus had second thoughts about leaving the fragment in Sector Seven's possession, and ordered Bumblebee and Ironhide to turn around and retrieve the only remaining piece of the AllSpark. {{storylink|Alliance issue 2|Alliance #2}}

[[Image:Alliance3_OptimusPrime_Lennox.jpg|thumb|left|300px|"So erm, want to go back to my place?" "Prime, are you trying to get onto me?" "No dude, I just want to show you my collection of faces and heads!"]]

The convoy returned to the Sector Seven base after learning of Wreckage and Starscream's attacks. [[Salani]] retrieved the AllSpark shard and returned it to Optimus Prime, who felt the last piece of their heritage should stay with him. Weeks later, the Autobots and the soldiers with whom they served traveled aboard a [[United States Navy|US Navy]] carrier for Jazz's burial-at-sea and to observe the disposal of the Decepticons. Optimus deeply appreciated the humans' paying last respects to their fallen comrade, though he was concerned that even the great depths of the [[Laurentian Abyss]] were not enough to keep the Decepticon bodies hidden. Below deck, Optimus and Lennox agreed to a formal [[NEST|alliance between the Autobots and humans]] as the first line of offense and defense against the Decepticons. During training on the island of [[Diego Garcia]], Optimus Prime reminded the Autobots that they must work together with the humans as a team, never forgetting that division was what caused the war on Cybertron in the first place. When they were alone, Optimus Prime and Major Lennox complimented each other's leadership and the dedication of their respective troops. When Lennox commented that it was because of the Autobots that he and his soldiers were alive today, Optimus refuted this, saying it was because of humans such as Lennox and Sam, and that the Autobots were only part of the problem. Soon, both [[NEST]] leaders learned that the Decepticons had returned to Earth. {{storylink|Alliance issue 3|Alliance #3}}

By November 2008, Sideswipe had arrived on Earth, but was recklessly pursuing the Decepticon Demolishor in South America. Optimus was chastised by Admiral Morshower for this "grey area" in the Autobot ranks, but the Autobot leader assured Morshower he would settle it. Human relations were so strained the exasperated Optimus decided to forcibly bring Sideswipe in to end his rampage; however, Ironhide requested he go calm his former student down. Optimus agreed, but made his position clear: if Sideswipe could not be negotiated with... he would be ''dealt'' with. Ironhide eventually was able to calm his student, but not before Demolishor was let loose upon human civilians, AND the authorities were attacking Cybertronians on sight. Luckily, Optimus and a strike team had already arrived and had the authorities stand down, and Sideswipe joined the Autobot ranks. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 2|Tales of the Fallen #2}}

[[Image:Alliance4_Prime_killingspree.jpg|thumb|300px|Freedom is the right of all '''non-Decepticon''' sentient beings.]]

NEST was deployed to [[San Francisco]], where the Decepticons [[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] and [[Dead End (Movie)|Dead End]] were wreaking havoc. Flushed out of hiding, the Decepticons managed to evade the other Autobots, but Optimus Prime quickly put down Dead End by ramming him head-on. When asked by Prime, he commented that he was fine, but he wasn't sure if Dead End was. On the way back to base, Lennox and Optimus Prime discussed Swindle's last words and were concerned that this was just the first wave of Decepticons coming to Earth, and that they were after [[Sam Witwicky]]. Optimus convinced Lennox that no matter what, it was Sam's destiny to become involved in this conflict, and they agreed to send Bumblebee back to the States to resume his role as the boy's guardian. Later, when Optimus observed the distrust for the Autobots held by Lennox's superiors, he suggested that they must work harder and that continued success would satisfy those above them. During the subsequent hunt for Decepticons around the world, Optimus Prime personally destroyed [[Jetstorm (Movie)|Jetstorm]], [[Dropkick]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. As NEST's ranks grew, together they celebrated their victories and mourned those who made the ultimate sacrifice. One event brought joy and hope to the team: The arrival of Autobot refugees who were eager to protect their new homeworld. This joy was tempered by the fact more and more Decepticons were being sighted on Earth, and Optimus believed that there was some unknown that threatened their new home, their species and their alliance with the humans. {{storylink|Alliance issue 4|Alliance #4}}
{{-}}

===''The Veiled Threat''===
{{Note|The events of ''The Veiled Threat'' take place during [[IDW Publishing]]'s ''[[Alliance (comic)|Alliance]]'' comic.}}

{{bigquote|I know Megatron. I know all of you. You would not have taken the AllSpark and left this world in peace. You would have subdued it and made slaves of its people. Even in the absence of the AllSpark, my conscience and that of my friends could not have allowed that.|Optimus Prime to [[Macerator]]}}

Optimus attended an initial [[NEST]] briefing about sightings of Starscream in [[Zambia]], and was placed in joint command with Lennox of a team to go there to investigate. He also advised some new Autobot arrivals about how best to fit in on Earth. In Zambia, they quickly tracked down three Decepticons, [[Payload (Movie)|Payload]], [[Macerator]] and [[Dropkick]] waiting at the Zambezi River. Optimus, Ironhide and Ratchet waded in to face their opponents, unaware that it was a trap — as they fought, they were dragged downriver towards Victoria Falls. Although the other two Autobots escaped the trap, Optimus was held fast by Macerator and plunged off the falls. While Macerator was caught mid-air by Starscream, Optimus managed to cling to an outcropping. He was rescued by the other Autobots present, utilizing [[Beachbreak]]'s tow line. Enraged by the rescue, Starscream killed Beachbreak, something Optimus regarded as a result of his own failure to lead. The team tracked Payload, Macerator and Dropkick downriver to the Kariba dam, where Optimus rammed two of the Decepticons and then fought with Macerator at length. He eventually triumphed, decapitating the Decepticon. As Dropkick retreated, Optimus stopped Ironhide from firing as he might have hit some of the humans nearby. They instead went to look for Payload, who had been swept away by raging waters from the dam emergency release.

Back at [[Diego Garcia]], two more Decepticon contacts were made in [[Australia]] and [[Peru]]. Optimus opted to lead the team checking Australia. After exploring the Outback for a number of days, the team discussed whether the Decepticons might be hunting for energy to resurrect Megatron, but Optimus doubted there was an energy source on the planet that could do so. They eventually encountered [[Kickback (ROTF)|Kickback]], [[Trample]] and [[Tread]], three [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]]s mining for minerals. Optimus found Kickback's sonic charge weapon to be a challenge, but with some help from Lennox, killed the Decepticon.

After they returned to base, Optimus's input into the conversation on how the Decepticons might revive Megatron was for the most part unhelpful. The subsequent appearance of [[Jolt (Movie)|Deadend]] and [[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] in [[Rome]] led the Autobots to take another trip, but Optimus found Rome's narrow streets frustrating as he was unable to navigate them in his truck form. After [[Knock Out (ROTF)|Knockout]] dealt to the two Decepticons, a furious Starscream challenged Optimus to one-on-one combat in the nearby Colosseum. Naturally it was a trap — Starscream had allied himself with a human, [[Bruno Carrera]], and together they trapped Optimus in a pit and set Barricade on him. With the help of four humans, Optimus broke free, threw Barricade into the pit and sealed him there. He then had only to show his face outside to where Starscream was fighting Ironhide, Ratchet and [[Salvage (Movie)|Salvage]], and the would-be Decepticon leader fled. {{storylink|The Veiled Threat}}

===Titan Magazines ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===

[[Image:Titan5_Optimustwins.jpg|thumb|left|250px|"Your slang is bad and you should ''feel'' bad!"]]

Since coming to Earth, Optimus has had to strive daily to gain credibility with the human powers-that-be. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.5|Reversal of Fortune}}

Even Optimus doesn't believe [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap's]] stories anymore! When those same twins arrived, Optimus was absent on a 'need to know' mission {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|Learning Curve}} in [[Australia]] with [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]]. When [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] landed on the continent, the two Autobots interrupted their mission to bring the bot in. It proved far more difficult than you'd expect, with the Decepticon able to outdistance them in the long run and better suited to the terrain. Optimus was knocked offroad when Sideways blasted him with exhaust, and Arcee reported her alt mode was too out of its comfort zone to keep up... which gave Optimus an idea.

That idea was to take ''away'' the terrain, blasting Sideways off the road and into the grass with projectile weaponry. Violence works!

Optimus took the prisoner to Diego Garcia, and on arrival was greeted with the sight of the twins brawling on the runway. He bawled them out over improper conduct, but before he could go further [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] made an attack. Taking fire, Optimus began barking out orders... only to be tripped up by Skids. Once he was up, Scorponok and Sideways had both done a runner. Knowing that the enemy could ''not'' have got this close without NEST security being compromised, Optimus was convinced by [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe's]] argument that the twins had turned traitor and had them taken away for questions. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.5|Reversal of Fortune}}

When the twins were sprung by Decepticons, Prime agreed with [[Theodore Galloway]] that the Autobots would make finding the twins a number one priority. However, Optimus was left suspicious when a [[Soundwave (ROTF)|mysterious "friend"]] tipped the Autobots off about the twins. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.6|Outlaw Blues}} Soon, it came out that the twins were being framed and by tracking the two, Optimus and his men found out about a Decepticon base near [[Mars (planet)|Mars]]. Optimus led a raid on it, taking down the [[Purple generic drones|drone army]] stationed there. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Tesshō Genda]] (Japanese), [[Guilherme Briggs]] (Brazil), [[Reiner Schöne]] (German), [[Alessandro Rossi]] (Italian), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Guy Nadon]] (French-Canadian)

[[Image:ROTF-DemolishorPrime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|With the Legends and Voyager toys, this scene is ''just'' possible.]]
After the events in [[Mission City]] two years ago, Optimus Prime and the Autobots became part of a Transformer/human military group called [[NEST]], which hunted down the remaining Decepticons across the world. When [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]] and [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] were detected in [[Shanghai]], NEST was deployed there, including the Autobots [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]], [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]], [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]]. Once Demolishor made himself known by transforming into robot mode and crushing dozens of cars along the highway, [[Robert Epps|Sergeant Epps]] radioed an overhead C-17 to release the Autobot leader. Optimus Prime parachuted out of a NEST cargo plane and landed in vehicle mode. He leapt off a bridge onto the Decepticon's head as he plowed through it. When the massive Constructicon refused his order to pull over, Optimus unleashed several blasts of his [[ion blaster]] into Demolishor's head. These shots, coupled with Ironhide destroying his tires, sent the titan crashing to the ground and into a warehouse. As he and Ironhide approached the dying Decepticon, Optimus asked if he had any last words. With his dying breath, the Constructicon stated that [[The Fallen]] would rise again. Optimus responded in the negative and unceremoniously executed him.

Returning to [[Diego Garcia]], Prime entered a briefing with [[Theodore Galloway]], the National Security Adviser who had been appointed liaison by the [[President of the United States|President]], and [[Morshower|General Morshower]], the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was watching by satellite feed. Prime relayed the warning of The Fallen to them, but Galloway made no effort to conceal his hostility toward the Autobots. He noted that while they had given them intelligence and the sole remaining AllSpark fragment, Galloway took issue with their refusal to share weapons technology and their continued sending of transmissions into space. Prime told Galloway that the Autobots were aware of humanity's history of warfare, and Morshower said that all the transmissions had been vetted by NEST officers. Galloway also pointed out that despite Megatron's death and burial in the Laurentian Abyss and the destruction of the AllSpark, the Decepticons had not left Earth as Optimus had hoped, leading him to conclude that the Autobots were the ones who the Decepticons were after. When asked if the Autobots would leave Earth peacefully if told to, Optimus replied that they would honor their request, but warned Galloway to consider what would happen if the Autobots left but the Decepticons did not.

Unknown to Prime, the Decepticon [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] had been monitoring transmissions and spied on the briefing. Dispatching [[Ravage (ROTF)|Ravage]] to the island, he had his agent steal the remaining AllSpark fragment, killing several soldiers in the process. The incident left the Autobots with rather chilly relations with the United States. Seeking outside help, Optimus dispatched Bumblebee to retrieve Sam Witwicky from college in an effort to secure his testimony on the Autobots' behalf. Meeting Sam at an abandoned cemetery near his college, Optimus explained the situation. Sam was not receptive; in fact, he was quite hostile, saying that he had just started college and was trying to have a normal life. Knowing that fate often called at inconvenient times, Optimus impressed upon Sam the importance of what was going on, but Sam reiterated that the Cybertronian War was not his, and that they didn't need him. Optimus relayed his fear that it soon would be, and silently said that they needed him more than he realized.

[[Image:ROTFPrimevsMegsandScreamer.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Stick em' up!]]
Prime's fear soon came to pass, but in the last way he could imagine: the Decepticons had used the AllSpark shard to resurrect Megatron, who had learned that the knowledge of the AllSpark had been passed to Sam by a fragment Sam had touched, and soon captured him, Mikaela, and Sam's college roommate [[Leo Spitz]]. Heading to rescue the three humans, Optimus and Bumblebee ambushed the Decepticons in the [[Broadwater Metal Works|abandoned industrial complex]] where the teens were being held, just as [[Scalpel (ROTF)|Scalpel]] was about to perform fatal neurosurgery on Sam. Knocking Megatron and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] out of the building, Optimus managed to whisk Sam away from the plant. Optimus made it as far as the nearby forest when Megatron arrived. Going one-on-one with the Decepticon leader, Prime managed to hold his own, all the while trashing talking Megatron. Megatron then called for Starscream and [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]], who quickly arrived. Prime was forced to run interference between Megatron and Starscream, who pursued Sam.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|right||250px|''Frenzy is red,'' '' Rumble is blue,'' ''this poem doesn't rhyme,'' ''NOW GIVE ME YOUR FACE !'' ]]
As the battle raged, Megatron told Prime that the boy was the key to finding another energon source, then shattered his [[mouthplate]] and sent him flying back with a point blank shot from his [[fusion cannon]]. Megatron asked if the boy's life was greater than the future of their race, but Prime knew that he would never stop with a single life. Declaring that he'd take them all on, Optimus Prime unsheathed his [[Dual Energon Swords]] and fought a three-on-one fight against the Decepticons. Surprisingly, not only did he manage to hold his own, he was actually winning, managing to stab Megatron multiple times, slice off Starscream's arm and use it as a club, and rip apart Grindor's head. However, Megatron managed to stab his own sword through Optimus Prime's chest, following with a point blank shot through his injured back. Critically injured, Optimus implored the still-observing Sam to run. Although the rest of the Autobots soon arrived and drove off Megatron and Starscream, Optimus Prime was [[The_many_deaths_of_Optimus_Prime|dead]].

[[Image:ROTF Optimus death.jpg|thumb|left|250px|"You're so weak!" "Then why have I spent this whole fight kicking your a—"*BOOM*]]
Soon after, The Fallen made his presence known and demanded Sam Witwicky be turned over to him or the world would be destroyed. Galloway used this as a reason to shut down NEST and ordered the Autobots returned to Diego Garcia under guard, along with Prime's corpse (which Galloway callously denounced as a piece of scrap metal). Fortunately, Bumblebee, and [[Skids (ROTF)|the]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Twins]] managed to spirit Sam, Mikaela, and Leo away before The Fallen made his announcement. With help from their former enemy Seymour Simmons and the Decepticon-turned-Autobot [[Wheelie (ROTF)|Wheelie]], the group discovered that Sam's mind contained the Language of the Primes, to which group The Fallen had once belonged. The human/Autobot group managed to locate the Seeker [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]], who told them of how the [[Dynasty of Primes]] forged a [[star harvester]] to use a star's energy to replenish the AllSpark, and the [[Matrix of Leadership]], needed to activate the harvester, until they were betrayed by The Fallen, who tried to harvest [[Sun|Sol]] in defiance of the Primes' rule of the sanctity of life. Sam hit upon the idea to use the Matrix to restore Optimus to life, similar to how the Decepticons had used the AllSpark fragment to resurrect Megatron. Having been teleported to [[Egypt]] by Jetfire, the group managed to relay the information to Major Lennox and Sergeant Epps, who faked engine trouble over Petra, where the [[Tomb of the Primes]] was located. Unfortunately, the Matrix had turned to dust in the thousands of years since its entombment, but Sam still believed that it could be used to revive Optimus.

[[Image:ROTF movie Powered-Up Optimus Prime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|I'm bringing sexy back.]]
However, the Decepticons were still looking for the harvester and the Matrix needed to activate it. Sam was technically killed in the [[Operation: Firestorm|battle]], during which he communed with the six Primes from the tomb, who restored the Matrix. Jamming it in the fallen Autobot's chest, Sam used the Matrix to restore Optimus Prime to life. Unfortunately, The Fallen soon arrived and stole the Matrix. Having been fatally injured by [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], Jetfire offered his parts to Optimus, as only a Prime could defeat The Fallen, and snuffed out his own spark. After Ratchet and [[Jolt (ROTF)|Jolt]] finished attaching Jetfire's wings and thrusters to Prime's body, Optimus hurried to the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]], which had been constructed around the harvester, and damaged the machine before it could destroy Earth's sun.

[[Image:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Your face is insufficient. GIVE ME YOUR SPARK!]]
Optimus Prime then faced Megatron and the Fallen. This against the odds battle went far better for Optimus, as he used Megatron's own fusion cannon to shoot off half his face and his afterburners to send him through some ruins. Optimus then battled the Fallen, using his Energon Sword to slice through his face. The Fallen countered by ripping off his left wing and striking him with it, but Optimus managed to grab the Fallen's own spear and impale him with it. Telling the traitorous Prime he had picked the wrong planet, Optimus used the spear to rip off The Fallen's face plate. As The Fallen tried to flee, Optimus Prime punched through his abdomen and crushed his spark core, killing The Fallen and forcing Megatron and Starscream to retreat.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus Sam ship.JPG|thumb|right|250px|"So why did you want his face?" "Okay, I'll tell you."*cuts to credits*]]
On the return voyage home, Optimus thanked Sam for saving his life, as the boy thanked the Autobot leader for believing in him. Following this, Optimus Prime sent another transmission into space, detailing recent events so that the pasts of both races would be remembered, and also declaring that Humanity and the Autobots would face the future together. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{--}}

===Titan Magazines post-''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===

Following the later Fallen incident, Optimus continued operations against the Decepticons. [[Jolt (ROTF)|Jolt's]] over-enthusiasm began to muck that up, causing damage and getting NEST into trouble, despite Optimus' attempts to point this out to him. Optimus had to confine him to base. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.9|Culture Shock}}

[[Image:Titan10_Optimusgetsout.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Never had a human face before. GIVE ME IT ANYWAY!]]

Soon after that, he was drawn out into a trap by [[Trophy White]] and the [[Free Men]], who wanted to take his head as a trophy. Optimus worked out their plan and allowed himself to be captured by the deranged hunter, in order to keep the fight away from civilians. He pretended to be securely chained down and listened to White's sociopathic ravings, before (at the moment he considered funniest) breaking free and taking White prisoner. Shockingly, he found keeping the severed heads of animals as trophies to be ''bad'', and destroyed Trophy's trophies. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.10| Bring Me the Head of Optimus Prime}}

When there was a Decepticon breakout in [[South Africa]], Optimus ordered his men to let the prisoners flee: a battle outside [[World Cup|a major sports event]] would cause unacceptable civilian casualties. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.13|Inside Out!}} This led to a major collapse in Autobot popularity, and open battles with Decepticons in cities were just risking further alienation. In response, Prime created of a secret covert unit (even under NEST's radar) that would monitor the Decepticons, wait for windows of opportunity out of the public eye, and then hit hard and fast. While this worked, Optimus was left disquieted: the tactics he was using were too akin to the Decepticons, and a fine line was being walked. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.18|Shadow War}}

{{-}}

===Cyber Missions===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Eric Edwards]] (English), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish)

[[Image:CyberMissions1 Optimus.jpg|right|thumb|250px|]]
Optimus Prime recorded some information on the Autobot-Decepticon war for preservation in [[Vector Sigma]]. Bumblebee and Ironhide were reviewing it when [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] and [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] launched their attack. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 1}} The next morning, Optimus had been informed of the attack and Soundwave's capture, and he ordered Ironhide to wait for reinforcements to assist in pursuing Bludgeon. Bludgeon made that difficult for Ironhide. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 2}} Later, Optimus contacted Ratchet to inform him that [[Lockdown (ROTF)|Lockdown]] was causing chaos in [[Mission City]], and he reminded the Autobot medic to be careful. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 3}}

He and Sideswipe tracked Megatron to a disused factory, only to lose the scent. Megatron, having cloaked his spark signature, jumped out of hiding to attack them, and Optimus used his swords to attack the Decepticon. An appeal for Megatron to surrender was answered by a blast from Megatron's cannon bringing the roof down on the two Autobots, and the Decepticon escaped. Optimus promised that Megatron would no longer be able to hide. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 4}}

When Ironhide went missing after the incident with Bludgeon, Optimus searched for him, and Bumblebee revealed he was last near a cave with a load of [[Energon (fuel)|Energon]]. That same cave happened to be where [[Mindwipe (ROTF)|Mindwipe]] was hiding. As Optimus went to rescue his friend, Mindwipe tried to hypnotize the Autobot leader, but Optimus was able to resist the hypnosis and defeat Mindwipe, leaving a confused Ironhide to wonder what was going on. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 5}}

Reports of [[Smolder]] attacking a building in [[Scramble City (city)|Scramble City]] resulted in Optimus dispatching Bumblebee and Ratchet to investigate. He filled them in on the situation en route. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 9}} During another mission, Optimus warned Sideswipe and Ratchet that they were being tracked, moments before the pair were attacked by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and Mindwipe. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 10}}

Bumblebee reported to Optimus that he'd managed to pinpoint the location where Megatron and Starscream were meeting, leading Optimus to confront the two Decepticons in an Arctic region. When Megatron expressed surprise that he'd come to fight them without backup, Optimus assured him that the Autobots were never far from their leader's side. While Starscream went to attack the others, Optimus and Megatron continued to fight, with Optimus emerging the eventual victor. As Megatron tried to goad him into finishing the fight, Optimus announced that the Autobots protected all sentient life, and that included the Decepticons. He subsequently allowed Megatron to flee. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 12}}

{{quote|By showing even one such as him the power of mercy, Megatron might realize that we'll never give up, no matter the cost.|Optimus Prime|"Cyber Missions 12"}}

Prime set up an elaborate trap involving a hologram of Soundwave to lure the Decepticons to a spot in the wilderness. The ploy worked, and Optimus attacked Megatron while his men attacked Megatron's troops. At one point during the battle, Megatron threw a train car at him, and he simply somersaulted along its length. Though Megatron boasted that the Decepticons would win through sheer determination, Optimus knocked him to the ground and gave a speech about building alliances, which was the cue for the [[human]]s to turn up in force and surround the Decepticons. Optimus informed Megatron that he could either leave the planet peacefully or be destroyed. Once the rest of the Decepticons fled, Megatron delivered a final threat before taking off. Prime celebrated with another speech, before admiring the huge Autobot [[insignia]] Bumblebee had stomped into the ground. {{storylink|Decepticons Attack}}

===Transformers Annual 2011===
An alert of Decepticon activity in [[Tokyo]] sent Optimus, Ironhide, Ratchet and Sideswipe to investigate. He intervened in Sideswipe and Barricade's battle to lift the Decepticon into the air, only to find himself under attack by Grindor. Ordering Sideswipe and Ratchet to cover him, Optimus scaled the side of a nearby office block so he could punch the helicopter out of the air. Standing over the two Decepticons, Optimus was surprised when they informed him that they were simply providing a diversion. Optimus realised that Sam was in danger, and rushed back to America in time to find Starscream attempting to abduct the boy. He jumped on Starscream's back, causing the Decepticon to flee and saving Sam from a kidnapping. {{storylink|Sam in Danger}}

===IDW Post ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===
[[Image:Nefarious2 Prime on Soundwave.jpg|thumb|left|350px]]
Lennox reported to Optimus via videolink on the halting of [[Alice]]'s rampage. Optimus mentioned that they should be more aggressive in tracking down Decepticons, but Lennox reminded him that NEST was low on resources. They decided on some "improvisations" in the form of newly-arrived Autobots. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 1|Nefarious #1}} Optimus was witness to Galloway balling out Lennox over the battle at [[Kingdom Petrochemicals]], but kept quiet. Afterwards, Lennox and Optimus discussed the [[Initiative|mysterious humans]] who had been seen at the petrochemical plant. When [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] and [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]] came under attack from [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]], Optimus parachuted in and bested Soundwave. Soundwave attempted to persuade Prime to let him go, but Prime decided that instead they would take him into NEST custody for interrogation. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 2|Nefarious #2}}

Optimus oversaw the preparations of the facilities for holding Soundwave, rather than face having to tell Major Lennox what they'd done. He was only delaying the inevitable, and Lennox was even more annoyed when the plane carrying Soundwave was shot down. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 3|Nefarious #3}} When NEST received a distress call from Galloway, who was under attack from [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], Optimus sent [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] to assist. He also reminded Ironhide that just because the man was a "pain in the aft" didn't mean they could avoid helping him. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 4|Nefarious #4}}

[[Image:Nefarious5 Prime already too late.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"They've already put the bomp in the bomp-a-bomp-a-bomp"]]
Soundwave led the Autobots to the location of the [[Initiative]] base in [[California]], but the base was gone. Despite this, Optimus still trusted Soundwave as he believe the organization they faced had access to Cybertronian technology. Soundwave pinpointed the mobile base as being in [[Utah]], so the Autobots headed there. Part way, Optimus felt the power of something very like the [[AllSpark]] being used and began to realize what they were up against. They reached Utah and began an assault on the [[Initiative base]], only to find themselves facing brainwashed Transformers. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 5|Nefarious #5}}

As the battle continued, Optimus tried to call out for their foe to surrender the AllSpark they possessed, however [[Carter Newell]], head of the Initiative, responded by trying to use the artifact to terminate all Cybertronian life. An injury courtesy of [[Reedman]] aborted the attempt, and Newell tried to flee. Optimus was forced to ram the truck he was in to obtain the AllSpark, but realized the only way to halt the rapidly-destabilizing Cube was to
feed it his own [[spark]]. Luckily that turned out to be unnecessary, as [[Fortress (ROTF)|Fortress]] took the AllSpark from him and carried it into space, where it exploded. Optimus later noted that the Initiative data banks had been [[Soundwave (ROTF)|picked clean]] and wondered if anyone else could make an attempt to recreate the AllSpark. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 6|Nefarious #6}}

{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 1|Rising Storm #1}}{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 2|Rising Storm #2}}{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 3|Rising Storm #3}}
{{-}}

===''Dark of the Moon'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin American-Spanish)
{{comingsoon|unreleased|when=July 29, 2011}}
{{storylink|Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots}}

===''Transformers'' (Glu)===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers (Glu)}}

===''Transformers'' - The Game===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC/Wii/PS2====
====Autobot campaign====
Optimus Prime provided intelligence and missions to Bumblebee in his search for the AllSpark. Eventually, the clues led the Autobot to Sam Witwicky. After saving Sam from Barricade, Bumblebee finally completed preparations for the Autobots to arrive on Earth.

Once on Earth, and having informed the two teenagers of their mission, Prime and the Autobots were discovered by Sector Seven. Optimus sent Jazz on a high-speed <strike>destruction</strike> distraction mission, then sent Ironhide to rescue Jazz from a double-threat posed by the government agents and various Decepticon scouts.

When Bumblebee was captured, Optimus Prime transformed and chased the helicopter which from which the small Autobot was tied. After a lengthy pursuit, Optimus managed to catch the net, only to be thrown off by another Cybertronian [[transition form|meteor]]. As Bumblebee was carried away, Optimus promised he would not fail him again. Jazz informed him that the meteor was not an Autobot and Optimus confronted the new threat, who turned out to be the Decepticon triplechanger [[Shockwave (Movie)|Shockwave]]. The two battled it out across [[Tranquility]] before Optimus finally destroyed him, and in doing so, overheard [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s transmission revealing the location of the AllSpark.

Optimus then returned to an intel role as he guided Bumblebee in his mission to retrieve the AllSpark from Hoover Dam. Unfortunately, the Decepticons managed to free Megatron, leading to the final battle in Mission City.

As the Autobots engaged in an all-out urban war with the Decepticons to protect Sam and the AllSpark, things seemed to take a turn for the worse as Megatron finally arrived. But before the Decepticon leader could claim the Cube, Optimus Prime attacked.

The two leaders duked it out until Megatron was finally on the ground, seemingly devoid of life. Optimus knelt to take the AllSpark as Sam handed it to him, but Megatron suddenly awoke, leaping at the Autobot with his chain-flail out, and making one last attempt at defeating his adversary. Optimus grabbed the chain, pulling Megatron in closer, and with the AllSpark clutched in his fist, delivered a punch through Megatron's spark. As Megatron died Optimus reflected on the losses and rewards of this battle, as the Autobots have a new home. Optimus planned to guard the humans in secret, "For freedom is the right of all sentient beings." {{storylink|Transformers The Game (console)|Transformers The Game}}

====Decepticon campaign====
After all the Autobots we´re killed on Mission City, Sam and Mikaela informed the deaths to Prime, Optimus decided to defeat Megatron, In the final battle, Optimus Prime was beaten to the ground, and as he desperately crawled for the AllSpark, Megatron smashed his head with his flail, before using the Cube to destroy humanity. {{storylink|Transformers The Game (console)|Transformers The Game}}

====''Transformers: Autobots''====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Arriving late on Earth, Optimus meets up with the other Autobots to give further commands to his troops. [[Create-A-Bot (Autobot)|Create-A-Bot]], the new rookie, is eager to help in the cause, but Optimus tells him to sit back while the grown-ups take care of business. Getting fed up with the bureaucracy, Create-A-Bot finally defies orders and completes a mission against Optimus's counsel. After nearly getting himself and the other Autobots killed, Create-A-Bot apologizes to Optimus personally. Taking pity on the newcomer, Optimus lets him off with a stern warning, and they move out together to face Megatron. During the fight, Create-A-Bot sacrifices himself to save his commander. Megatron defeated, Optimus commends the young Autobot as a war hero, and sends out an interstellar message to any Cybertronians living among the stars. {{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Autobots}}

====''Transformers: Decepticons''====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Landing on Earth, Optimus Prime quickly joins the other Autobots to attempt to stop the Decepticons. Prime didn't appear on the battlefield until Megatron himself was released and Starscream escaped with the AllSpark. He stepped in to thwart the maniacal leader of the Decepticons, but alas, was struck down, left in the streets while Megatron gave chase to his traitorous second-in-command. {{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Decepticons}}

====''Transformers: The Game'' (PSP)====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English)
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers The Game (PSP)}}

===Datafile Decoder===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Datafile Decoder}}

===AllSpark Wars===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|AllSpark Wars}}

===Allspark Highway===
The Autobots needed to race the Allspark to safety, and Optimus Prime teamed with his fellow Autobots to drive through the Decepticon defenses and get their prize to a secure location. {{storylink|Allspark Highway}}

===Autobot Stronghold===
The Decepticons were invading an Autobot stronghold in the city, and Optimus Prime and the Autobots placed themselves at key positions to defend it from attack. {{storylink|Autobot Stronghold}}

===Transformers: Battle for the Matrix===

{{Note|Battle for the Matrix is a simplified retelling of the events of [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]. It can be played from the perspective of either Bumblebee or Optimus Prime.}}
[[Image:Optimusprime battleforthematrix.jpg|thumb|left|200px]]
{{storylink|Transformers: Battle for the Matrix}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - The Game''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English) [[Dariusz Odija]] (Polish)
====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC====
=====Autobot campaign=====
[[Image:ROTF game Optimus Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|One shall stand, one sha— oh, you know the drill.]]
Optimus Prime served as the Autobots all around fighter. Weapons wise, he possessed dual laser rifles and dual shell cannons. In melee combat, he possessed [[Dual Energon Swords|Dual Energy Swords]] in each hand. Finally, with his valiant leader ability, he could generate a shield around himself which would prevent his energy from dropping past 1%.

After overseeing Ironhide's defeat of [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] and Ratchet's rescue of Ironhide, Optimus Prime took to the field when a previously unknown Decepticon named [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]] began attacking the [[Shanghai]] waterfront. Optimus was finally able to defeat him, but Demolishor gave a single warning before he was killed: "The Fallen shall rise again". Optimus and the Autobots were at a loss as to what he meant. Back in the United States, Sam Witwicky gave Mikaela Banes a fragment of the AllSpark that he had discovered, which the Decepticons soon sought. Prime dispatched Bumblebee to rescue her. Following this, the Decepticons launched a raid on the city's oil refinery, where Ratchet rescued several engineers. Finally, Ironhide escorted a NEST team to safety in the city's canals.

Their victories were short lived. The Decepticons soon learned about the AllSpark shard on Diego Garcia, stealing it to revive Megatron. Although [[Breakaway (ROTF)|Breakaway]] managed to save the fleet, Megatron was reborn. He soon made an attack on Sam, trying to access information in his mind downloaded from the AllSpark. Bumblebee managed to rescue him. In light of these attacks, Optimus decided to give NEST the [[Axiom Gun]] to better defend themselves against the Decepticons. The escort came under Decepticon assault, but Prime was able to beat back the attackers and deliver the Axiom Gun to NEST. Soon afterwards, Bumblebee escorted Sam to meet with [[Seymour Simmons]], who told him of Jetfire, who then took the boy to Egypt.

While there, Jetfire explained what was going on: Eons ago, Optimus's ancestors, the [[Thirteen original Transformers|13 founders]] of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], built a star harvester to convert the energy of the sun into [[Energon (fuel)|Energon]]. When they discovered the humans, they upheld their rule of the sanctity of life, but one of the Primes defied the rule and murdered his twelve brothers. This Prime was known as The Fallen, but the star harvester was hidden from him. While Sam made inquires to the [[Tomb of the Primes|Tomb of the Twelve]], Megatron and Starscream arrived in an attempt to learn the harvester's location and kill Sam. Optimus Prime was able to defeat both Decepticons with Jetfire's help, but Jetfire was stabbed in the back by Megatron. Dying, Jetfire offered his parts to Optimus, as only a Prime could defeat The Fallen.

Finding the harvester at the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]], Optimus challenged The Fallen. Despite The Fallen's powerful command of telekinesis and pyrokinesis, Optimus Prime was able to get past his defenses and kill The Fallen by stabbing him through the face. On the return trip home, Sam expressed gratitude at seeing the sunrise, and told Optimus he would have to trust him on it. Optimus Prime replied that he had always trusted Sam, and always would. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

=====Decepticon campaign=====
When the revenant Megatron and the Decepticons rampaged across the United States of America, Optimus Prime faced him in a major city on the East Coast. The two leaders engaged in a titanic struggle that shook the city, but despite being aided by many Autobot drone units, Optimus was seemingly destroyed. However, much later, Optimus Prime reappeared when Megatron's master, The Fallen, activated the Star Harvester to drain Earth's Sun. The Autobot leader revealed that The Fallen's promise to make Megatron a Prime was a lie, as Primes were born, not made. When Megatron demanded his reward, The Fallen reneged on his promise. As the master and disciple of evil began to fight, Optimus left to find a way to disable the Harvester. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}
{{-}}

===Transformers Battle Universe===
At the edge of time, when the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] needed a new host, Optimus Prime was among several warriors (and [[Optimus Prime|Prime]]s) summoned from the multiverse to battle for control of the prize. {{storylink|Transformers Battle Universe}}

===Starscream Showdown===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Starscream Showdown}}

===Transformers RPMs: Devastator's Demise===
[[Image:Devastatorsdemise optimus.jpg|left|thumb|200px]]
Optimus Prime is both fast and sturdy. His firepower blows obstacles to smithereens.

In order to defeat [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]], Bumblebee, Optimus and Ironhide must drive through Cairo and avoid obstacles.{{storylink|Transformers RPMs: Devastator's Demise}}
{{-}}

===Hunt for the Decepticons===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Hunt for the Decepticons}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Dark of the Moon - The Game''===
====(Xbox 360/PS3)====

{{comingsoon}}

==Commercial appearances==
* As part of the hype buildup to the movie's release, Optimus Prime made a brief cameo at the 2007 MTV Movie Awards, interacting with host Sarah Silverman. The scene spliced Silverman into pre-existing movie footage, but featured new dialogue recorded for the event by Peter Cullen. Prime heavily hinted that he wanted to present an award, but was rejected for a regular MTV fan.

* According to a tie-in advertisement for [[Burger King]], Prime likes his Whoppers with no onions, no cheese, extra pickles, with a side of ????. However, due to a cruel twist of fate, he can never enjoy the sweet taste of beefy victory (and all because he needed a driver for him to receive his order). He saved the world from the Decepticons, and still he can't even have it his way? Where's the justice?

* Optimus Prime (in truck mode) made an appearance at [[BotCon 2007]], alongside the [[Sector Seven Mobile Command Unit]]. He was available for pictures all weekend. He made a second appearance at [[BotCon 2009]].

* Optimus threw a trailer during his appearance on an [[M&M's]] commercial.

* On [[July 6]]th 2009, Optimus appeared on ''The Late Show With David Letterman'' to declare the "Top Ten Things That Sound Cool When Said By A Giant Robot". Optimus said it was nice to be there, although David was ''clearly'' concerned by having an 28-feet tall robot in the studio because of a bad history of robots messing up the place, and during the presentation Letterman decided there was something about Prime he didn't like. Anyway, the top ten was:
<ol>
<li value="10">"Jergens lotion leaves my hands silky smooth."</li>
<li value="9">"Do you have these khakis in size 114?"</li>
<li value="8">"My perfect night involves a pint of Haagen-Dazs and season three of ''Sex and the City''."</li>
<li value="7">"Man do I love me some 'taters."</li>
<li value="6">"It was so hot in Central Park, I saw a squirrel rubbing sunblock on his nuts."</li>
<li value="5">"You seemed a little pitchy, dawg."</li>
<li value="4">"Brody Jenner has added you as a friend on Facebook."</li>
<li value="3">"Live from New York, it's Saturday night."</li>
<li value="2">"My parents wanted me to be a Rabbi."</li>
<li value="1">"All the slammin' shorties in the house say 'Yeah'."<ref>[http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/991507.phtml Lateshow CBS archive video of Optimus's guest spot.]</ref></li>
</ol>

* To promote the DVD and Blu-ray release of ''Revenge of the Fallen'', Paramount set up a website where US fans could request Optimus call up their friends, warning them of Starscream's attempts to recruit human civilian allies.

*In the Discovery Channel promo, "The World Is Just Awesome," Optimus made a brief cameo, singing the words "boom-de-ya-da, boom-de-ya-da."<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jZzBEKIMc Discovery commercial] on YouTube.</ref>

*Prime (voiced by Cullen, but not animated by ILM) appeared to promote a NASA competition to vote for videos made by children about NASA's impact on commonplace technology.<ref>[http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/optimus/ NASA Optimus Prime]</ref>

*Optimus appeared in truck mode at [[Toy Fair 2011]]. He got a $115 parking ticket.<ref>[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357327/Transformers-truck-gets-parking-ticket-toy-fair.html ''Daily Mail'' article on Prime's fine.]</ref>

==Toys==
{{main|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys}}

==Merchandise==
:''Main article: [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Merchandise|Merchandise]]''

==Notes==
[[Image:moviecullen.jpg|right|150px|thumb|GIVE ME MY FACE]]

[[Image:Movie Primetruck before.jpg|right|150px|thumb|8:30 pm: "Trick My Truck". Tonight's guest: [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]].]]
* When Optimus' design was first revealed, [[GEEWUN|many fans of the Generation 1 series objected to the flames seen on Prime's body]]. When asked in an interview why he put the flames on, [[Michael Bay]] claimed he liked them because it was "cool". It was later revealed on a special featurette on the DVD that the flames were added because, apparently, red is not very good to film on camera, so Bay chose a blue truck but used the flames so that when Optimus transformed, the layout would result in maintaining his iconic red chest.

* The announcement of [[Peter Cullen]] as Prime's voice actor in the movie is credited by some fans as alleviating many fan tensions about the movie. Not all tensions, mind you, as there are some who just will never be satisfied, but it put the fans in a good mood.

* Prime's ''Rise of the Chevy Autobots'' codename, "10-22", is [http://www.truckercountry.com/cb-terminology.html#10c CB radio slang] for "report in person to." As in "Bumblebee, 10-22 to 10-22." Cute, huh?

* [[TakaraTomy]] officially recognizes Optimus Prime's vehicle mode as a [http://www.kenworth.com/2100_vir_w900.asp Kenworth W900 truck], even though the vehicle used for filming was a modified Peterbilt 379, a different model from a different brand, although both are made by the PACCAR company.<ref>[http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=121424?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2.* Article at Edmunds.com on some of the vehicles used in the movie]</ref>
[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime truckrear.jpg|right|150px|thumb|]]

* Prime's truck mode is apparently intended to haul a flatbed trailer, based on the presence of the large silver "headache rack", a piece of optional equipment that protects the driver in case a flatbed load breaks free during braking. It is generally not installed on trucks hauling enclosed container trailers.

[[Image:Movie Prime Trucklogomistake.jpg|right|150px|thumb|In the darkness, a PA will misread "Truck A" as "Truck B", and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth — Revelation 11:7.]]

* When Optimus Prime scans a truck for his new body, the passing truck has what appears to be an Autobot sigil on its grill, but the actual truck that Prime turns into at the end of the scene has a much wider, flatter symbol on the grill, which looks rather more like that of Peterbilt. Then, Prime has an Autobot sigil on his grill while driving to meet the other Autobots.

* According to the free trading cards from the Boston Globe, Optimus is 28 feet tall, weighs 4.3 metric tons, and his primary weapon is an [[Ion blaster|ion blaster]]. (Considering Optimus's height, however, this weight would seem implausible.)

* In the Japanese dub of the movie, he is given his original western name of Optimus Prime rather than the Japanese equivalent, Convoy. Just as Peter Cullen voiced Prime in the English version of the film, Tesshō Genda (the voice of G1 Convoy) reprised his role for the Japanese dub.

[[Image:MBMovieOptimusAttacks.jpg|thumb|250px|Maybe it's, uh, [[jet judo]].]]

*The [[Milton Bradley]] [[Transformers Battling Card Game]] depicts Prime with a unique a magnetic grapple attack, fired from the side of his arm. It also declares his forearm gun to be a chain gun (it's an ion blaster in other sources), and has him using a "judo kick", which... while it may not be out of the realm of plausibility for Prime to have learned an Earth martial art, judo does not actually '''use''' kicks, being focused on throwing moves. Oops.

* The Optimus Prime computer generated model consisted of 10,108 individual parts, 1,830,898 polygons, 27,744 rig nodes, and 2336 texture maps. The volume of all pieces combined came to 5445 cubic feet.<ref>Robertson, Barbara (2007). Heavy Metal. ''Computer Graphics, 30''(7), 12-17.</ref>

* It said in the Autobots game in the DS, Prime's father was killed by Megatron. However, since it is also widely known that Prime and Megatron were brothers, Megatron killed his own dad. Not that this is surprising, though.

* In Titan Magazines ''Transformers'' comics, Optimus's Cybertronian robot mode is exactly like his Earth mode, but with different weapons, yet his Cybertronian mode is a mostly silver protoform—with no truck windows. Odd.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus trailer super mode.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"One shall be scrawny...One shall be brawny"]]
* Optimus was supposed to combine with a trailer for ''Revenge of the Fallen'', something for which [[Ben Procter]] and [[Josh Nizzi]] drew up designs. In the end, Nizzi designed the combination with Jetfire.

* This incarnation of Optimus Prime doesn't do the best burials in the world, either—giving what can at best be described as a half-hearted goodbye to his [[Jazz (Movie)|first lieutenant]] at the end of the first movie, and unceremoniously dumping the parts of [[Jetfire (ROTF)|the converted Decepticon who had given him the power to defeat the Fallen]] at the conclusion of the second film. This is offset by how he's treated by humans when ''he'' dies.

* Of the Optimus Primes in all the existing continuities, this one is probably the most aggressive incarnation. Additionally, he seems obsessed with destroying the heads of his opponents. In ''[[Transformers (2007)|Transformers]]'', Prime [[Decapitation|decapitates]] [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]] and tries pulling off [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'s head. In ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of The Fallen]]'', Optimus severely damages [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]]'s head before putting the lethal bullet in it, he tries pulling off [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream's]] head with his foot, ''rips apart'' [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor's]] head with hooks, shoots off part of Megatron's face, and ''rips off'' [[The Fallen]]'s face before killing him. (He also slices or tears off Megatron, Starscream and Grindor's arms in the second film, but this was not immortalized with a classic one liner.) Maybe he took Jazz's death hard after all?

* According to [[TakaraTomy]] marketing director [[Masahiko Yamazaki]], for the Japanese dub of ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Transformers Animated]]'', the [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus]] featured in that show would become a young version of this one. However, nothing in the show-itself has happened to support his claims.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Optimus Prime''' (オプティマス・プライム ''Oputimasu Puraimu'')
*''Cantonese:'' '''O Baak Man''' (Hong Kong, 柯柏文)
*''Hungarian:'' '''Optimusz Fővezér''' ("Prime Leader Optimus")
*''Indonesian:'' '''Optimis Prima'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Kē Bó Wén''' (Taiwan, 柯博文), '''Qíng Tīan Zhù''' (China, 擎天柱, "Pillar that Supports the Sky")
*''Ukrainian:'' '''Optimus Naikrashchiy''' (Оптимус Наiкращий, "Optimus the Best")

{{--}}

==References==
<references />

==External links==
* [http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/ProtoformOptimusPrime/optimusprime.htm Optimus Prime at TFU.info]
* [http://www.seibertron.com/toys/index.php?f_series=40&f_name=optimus&f_type=exact&Submit=Search Galleries of various different Optimus Prime toys from the Movie]

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Autobots]]
[[Category:Convention guests]]
[[Category:Cyber Missions characters]]
[[Category:Dark of the Moon Autobots]]
[[Category:Hall of Fame]]
[[Category:Live-action film ARG characters]]
[[Category:Movie Autobots]]
[[Category:NEST]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Autobots]]
[[Category:Rulers of Cybertron]]

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)

2011-06-06T17:36:26Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Synopsis */ fixing an incorrectly used hononym.

{{Comicstory|
|seriesissue=[[Revenge of the Fallen (books)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' book series]]
|prev=The Veiled Threat
|next=Dark of the Moon (novel)
|title=''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen''
|image=TF2009 Revengeofthefallen novelization.jpg
|caption="''GIVE ME YOUR FA--'' Oh, wait, that doesn't happen in this version. Sorry, my bad."
|publisher=[[Del Rey Books]]
|date=[[May 19]], [[2009]]
|writer=[[Alan Dean Foster]]
|screenplay=[[Ehren Kruger]], [[Alex Kurtzman]], & [[Roberto Orci]]
|continuity=[[Movie continuity]]
|pagecount=336
|ISBN=ISBN 0345515935 ISBN 978-0345515933
}}
'''As Sam Witwicky seeks a normal life and the Autobots seek acceptance, The Fallen rises again...'''

==Synopsis==
''On ancient Earth, early human hunters are stalking a tiger when they find what they believe to be a god. [[The Fallen|Said god]] briefly examines one, then lets it drop and walks off. Some of the hunters follow the god when they find [[Transformer|smaller gods]] building something....''

In the present, the city of [[Shanghai]] is being evacuated due to a major chemical spill. However, the team sent in are not hazmat teams, they're [[NEST]], special force of soldiers from multiple Earth governments working with the [[Autobot]]s to locate and eliminate the [[Decepticon]]s still on Earth. [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]], [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]], and [[the Twins]] are deployed to locate a Decepticon in an industrial sector. When [[William Lennox|Major Lennox]] discovers two children who were not evacuated, the Decepticon [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]] strikes. As Demolishor attacks, his partner [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] tries to escape, and is forced to fight Arcee and the Twins. He fights them off but is killed by Sideswipe. Demolishor continues his attempts to escape, but is intercepted by [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]. He and Ironhide fatally damage Demolishor, but the dying Decepticon relays a warning: "The Fallen shall rise again."

Back in Burbank, [[Sam Witwicky]] is packing up for college while watching a report of the cover up on Mission City, which laid blame on [[Massive Dynamics]]. Sam dismisses it with disgust and resumes his packing. He then has to deal with his mom [[Judy Witwicky|Judy]] suffering from sadness over Sam's departure. As his father [[Ron Witwicky|Ron]] expresses pride in Sam for getting a scholarship to [[Princeton University|Princeton]], Sam gets a call from [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]], who halfheartedly announces that they're breaking up. Sam then announces that he has a long-distance relationship kit for her, including some personal items, a [[Sector Seven]] badge, certain [[glasses]], and even offers up the shirt he was wearing that day. As he unfolds it, a fragment of the [[AllSpark (Movie)|AllSpark]] falls out. Picking it up, Sam experiences a brief flash of images, then is shocked by the fragment and drops it, which burns through his floor and lands in the kitchen. The resulting surge of energy brings several [[Appliancebot|appliances to life]], who immediately make their way to Sam's room and attack him. Sam jumps out the window and seeks cover with his father, before Sam yells for [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]. The little Autobot manages to destroy the rampaging mutations, but is overzealous and destroys Sam's room in the process, damaging the house.

Emergency services are already there when Mikaela arrives and Sam gives her the fragment, telling not to tell anyone about it. Judy then announces that Bumblebee will be leaving when he leaves, and since freshmen aren't allowed to have cars on campus, Bumblebee is going back to the rest of the Autobots. Sam and Mikaela share a goodbye, but reach a minor rough patch when both hesitate to be the first to say "I love you". They move though, and Sam and his parents head for the airport, while Mikaela heads home. Unknown to her, [[Wheelie (ROTF)|Wheels]], a Decepticon, is watching her, and discovers that she has the AllSpark fragment with her. He relays his discovery to [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]], who orders him to retrieve to the fragment.

On [[Diego Garcia]], NEST is returning to base after the operation in Shanghai when [[Theodore Galloway|Director Galloway]] arrives, saying he has a message for the Autobots. NEST is preparing to debrief [[Morshower|Admiral Morshower]], the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, via satellite conference. Soundwave promptly hacks into the satellite and listens in on the message. Optimus Prime relays the warning of "The Fallen", and admits that he is unaware of its origins. It implies a link to the past, but since the only recorded history of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] was contained in the AllSpark, they cannot research it. Director Galloway then interrupts, asking why the Decepticons are still interested in Earth with the AllSpark's destruction. Galloway reveals the [[President of the United States|President]] is concerned over the destruction resulting in Shanghai, and takes issue with the Autobots refusing to share weapons technology with the humans and continued sending of transmissions into space inviting more Autobots to come to Earth. Major Lennox and [[Robert Epps|Sergeant Epps]] defend the Autobots, but Galloway dismisses their defense. Galloway then explains that with [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] at the bottom of the [[Laurentian Abyss]], and the last fragment of the AllSpark locked on Diego Garcia, there is only one reason for the Decepticons to be interested in Earth: they're here to hunt the Autobots. Galloway then asks that if they conclude that humanity would be better protected by denying the Autobots further asylum on Earth, would they leave peacefully? The other Autobots and NEST personnel are less than thrilled with the concept, but Optimus says that as freedom is the right of all sentient beings, he will honor the request. However, Optimus aks Galloway to relay a question to the President: what if they leave, and the Decepticons do not? Having learned of Megatron and the AllSpark shard's location, Soundwave begins to formulate a plan...

Arriving at Princeton, Sam makes his way to his dorm and meets his roommate, [[Leo Spitz]], owner of [[The Real Effing Deal]], an alternate news website trying to prove the existence of alien robots on Earth. He and his partners are working on a scope regarding the recent events in Shanghai, but they are beaten to the punch by their rival, [[Robo-Warrior]], at [[GiantEffingRobots.com]]. Sam quickly realizes that they may have some conflict of interest, and asks if there is another room available, but there are no other rooms available. Sam and Leo are introduced to [[Alice]], an attractive young girl who seems interested in Sam, but Sam has other priorities—namely, controlling his mother, who has just ingested marijuana laced brownies and nearly reveals the existence of the Autobots.

Over Diego Garcia, Soundwave releases his partner [[Ravage (ROTF)|Ravage]], who sneaks onto the base and releases the [[Microcon (ROTF)|microcons]] comprising [[Reedman]]. Reedman manages to remove the AllSpark fragment in the vault, and kills several soldiers in the process. Rejoining Ravage, the pair blast off for their next destination.

At Princeton, Sam is dragged to a fraternity party by Leo, despite his insistence that he has a web chat date with Mikaela. While he avoids any brownies, he does feel strange at the party, seeing strange images. Alice is there, and starts chatting him up, until a member of the fraternity announces that a yellow Camaro is parked outside in the bushes. Sam runs out and sees Bumblebee, and quickly decides to take him away. Alice hitches a ride, and makes it clear she's interested in Sam. Bumblebee disapproves of the girl, and douses her in lubricant, causing her to get out in a huff. Sam is angry at Bumblebee's behavior until he mentions a meeting with "the boss". Mikaela eventually gives up on the live chat date, while Sam is taken to an abandoned graveyard to meet with Optimus Prime, who informs Sam of the theft of the AllSpark fragment and the trouble he's having with the United States. Optimus needs outside help, and believes Sam to be a worthy ambassador. Sam is upset, as he just arrived at college. Optimus knows that fate rarely calls at a moment of one's choosing, and believes that there is greatness in Sam. Sam, however, disagrees, and declines the request. Optimus is disappointed but respects his decision.

On the ''[[Bayos]]'', a ship traveling across the [[Atlantic Ocean]], a sailor finds of his comrades dead, but is quickly killed himself by four of the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]]s on the ship. Ravage arrives on the ship, and the five Decepticons jump overboard and begin diving for the ocean floor. A [[United States Navy|Naval]] submarine detects their presence and begins diving as well. Finding Megatron's shell, [[Scalpel (ROTF)|the Doctor]] is released and declares that he needs more parts. Three Constructicons descend upon the smallest of them and kill him, quickly using his components to repair Megatron. Once they're complete, the Doctor inserts the fragment into Megatron's [[spark]] core. The plan works, and Megatron is reactivated, hitting the submarine on the way to the surface.

At Princeton, Sam attends [[Professor Colan]]'s Astronomy 101, and quickly begins seeing the images from before. He quickly reads Colan's book in seconds, and then stands up and says that [[Albert Einstein|Einstein]] was wrong about the theory of relativity. It's only accurate if you take this dimension into account, but false if you take the other seventeen. He then writes down complex equations on the chalkboard in [[Cyberglyphics|alien script]] and cites the [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|Sentinel Prime]] expedition as his source. Furious, Colan orders Sam out of class. Realizing something is wrong, he looks up information on his great-great-grandfather, [[Archibald Witwicky]], and learns that he drew the same images after he discovered Megatron.

Elsewhere, Megatron has reached a dying star system and made his way to a dead, cold world, where the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'' lies in ruins. Once he reaches the cargo hold, which still houses hundreds of Protoform Decepticons in [[stasis]], an image begins to form, which Megatron bows before as the face of his master, The Fallen, who is gathering forces in other dimensions. Megatron tells the Fallen that the AllSpark has been destroyed, but the Fallen tells him that the Cube was destroyed, while the knowledge within the AllSpark was instead transferred into Sam. With it, they can find another source of [[Energon (fuel)|Energon]] to raise their army. Once he has succeeded, The Fallen will grant Megatron the powers of "The Dynasty". An incredibly fearful [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] then enters the hold and tells Megatron he needed to take command in Megatron's absence. Megatron swats him aside and warns him that even in death, there is no command but Megatron. He then activates thirteen protoforms...

Meanwhile, Mikaela reaches the shop she works at, and is followed by Wheels. Sam calls her and starts telling her about the symbols she is seeing, and realizes they started happening when he touched the AllSpark fragment. She reassures Sam that it's safe in the shop vault. Wheels goes to retrieve it, but is caught in several mousetraps and attracts Mikaela's attention. She captures him, and says that she's heading for Sam. Meanwhile, NEST receives multiple Decepticon contacts on the East Coast, but the Autobots are both responding to the contacts, and not responding to NEST's communication attempts. Lennox orders NEST ready.

At Princeton, Leo attempts to woo Alice, who is more interested in Sam. They reach Sam and Leo's room, to discover that Sam has covered the room in alien symbols. Alice dismisses Leo, and attempts to seduce Sam. Leo goes to watch some television, when he happens across a commercial for an [[Alice in Wonderland]] amusement park...and the "Alice" of said amusement park looks exactly like Alice. Mikaela reaches Sam's room, and finds Sam with Alice. Before he can explain, Alice reveals herself to be a Decepticon. She chases Sam, Mikaela, and Leo to the library, and then to the parking lot, where Mikaela hot wires a car and runs over Alice. The car is intercepted by [[Grindor (ROTF)|a helicopter Decepticon]] and taken to an abandoned foundry where Megatron and Starscream await. Megatron taunts Sam with threats of death, and restrains him as the Doctor inserts a probe into Sam's mind. The probe replays images from Sam's brain, including the symbols he's been drawing. Megatron orders the Doctor to remove Sam's brain, but the Doctor is destroyed by a sniper shot, just as Optimus Prime and Bumblebee break into the foundry. Optimus escapes with Sam, while Bumblebee escapes with Mikaela and Leo. Megatron, Starscream, and the copter Decepticon reach up with Optimus at a nearby forest, and Megatron says that the boy is the key to another Energon source. Optimus refuses to let him have Sam, unsheathes his [[Dual Energon Swords|swords]], and fights the off the Decepticons, killing the copter Decepticon. As Optimus goes for Starscream, Megatron impales Optimus with his [[Death-lock pincer|sword]] from behind. Fortunately, the rest of the Autobots arrive before Megatron can finish off Optimus and take Sam. Unfortunately, the damage is severe, and Optimus will be in complete [[stasis lock]] until he can heal, which will take some time.

A few days later, Megatron and Starscream meet near the [[Arctic]]. They cannot find Sam, and there are over seven billion humans to look through. Megatron decides to compel the humans to bring Sam to him, and then destroys the ''U.S.S. Lincoln'', while Soundwave tracks Ron and Judy Witwicky to Paris, and dispatches another Decepticon to retrieve them. Following this, Megatron makes a televised broadcast to humanity, revealing the existence of the Transformers and demanding Sam be turned over to them within a day. At the military base where Optimus Prime's body is taken to, the United States military surrounds the Autobots at gunpoint, as Galloway reveals that he has operational command now and has deactivated NEST as a sign of good faith to the Decepticons, who they are negotiating with to buy time while they make a coordinated military strategy. Ironhide believes Galloway to be insane if he thinks the Decepticons will negotiate, but Sideswipe reminds him that this is not what Optimus would want. Reluctantly, the Autobots stand down.

At an abandoned prison in New Jersey, Sam, Mikaela, and Leo are hiding with Bumblebee and the Twins, [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]]. They learn of NEST's deactivation, and the manhunt for Sam. Blaming himself, Sam announces that he will turn himself in, but Bumblebee and Mikaela insist that this will only make things worse. Sam then decides to figure out where this energon source is. He assumes that some knowledge got transferred to him when the Cube was destroyed, and Mikaela surmises that the information is what allowed Sam to ace his SATs and get a scholarship to Princeton. Sam has no idea what the symbols mean, and asks if the Autobots can read what he's writing. They identify it as the Language of the Primes, an ancient Cybertronian language they cannot translate. Leo then offers up the location of the Robo-Warrior, his rival.

Heading to [[New York City]], Leo explains that he and his friends once revenge-hacked Robo-Warrior's site, and saw some of the symbols on his site. The group make their way to a deli, where Robo-Warrior is located. To Sam and Mikaela's shock, Robo-Warrior is none other than [[Seymour Simmons]], former chief agent of Sector Seven, now working in [[Tova Simmons|his mother's]] deli. For his part, Simmons is hostile to Sam and Mikaela, blaming them for the loss of his job and failing to kill Megatron. Simmons tells them to get lost, but when Sam mentions the symbols, Simmons interest is piqued. Taking them to the attic above the meat locker, Simmons shows them his archive of research he poached from Sector Seven (along with the head of [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]). The research is the presence of alien symbols on ancient ruins all over the world, meaning that the Transformers visited Earth several thousand years ago, and Simmons believed some were left behind. He shows them evidence of suspected Transformers across the planet, which Sector Seven dismissed as insignificant, despite Simmons insistence on investigating them. However, Simmons is just as in the dark on the symbols as the Autobots. With no choice, Mikaela brings out Wheels, who panics when he sees Frenzy's head. It's enough to frighten Wheels talking, who says that he cannot read the language of the Primes either, but tells them of those who can: the [[Seeker (ROTF)|Seeker]]s, the Transformers that Simmons mentioned, who were sent to look for something thousands of years ago. He tells them where to find them, and the nearest one is in [[Washington, D.C.]].

The group head to the [[wikipedia:Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center|Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center]] of the [[Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum]], where the Seeker is located. After dispatching the guards, the group finds that the Seeker in question is the Blackbird on display. Unfortunately, it's also a Decepticon, and is revived by the AllSpark fragment from Sam. It quickly becomes apparent that the Decepticon, named [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]], is barely functioning. He makes his way outside and is shocked by how much time he's been in stasis, also revealing that he defected to the Autobots. This amazes Wheels, who announces that he's defecting to Mikaela, dubbing her "Warrior Goddess". Jetfire also says that he has a mission, but cannot remember what it is. Sam writes down some of what he's been seeing, and Jetfire realizes that they're part of his mission. He quickly teleports them to [[Egypt]]. The trip is unpleasant for all, human and Transformer. It also attracted the attention of [[Ransack (ROTF)|another Seeker]], this one as barely functional as Jetfire, but still a Decepticon. The Seeker tries to kill Jetfire, but his shot bounces off him, and Jetfire crushes the Decepticon under his foot.

With things settled down, Jetfire explains what is going on: in the beginning, the Transformers were ruled by the [[Dynasty of Primes]], the [[Thirteen original Transformers|Thirteen original Cybertronians]] and their descendants, who were forged by the AllSpark to bring order to Cybertron. Because Energon was scarce, the AllSpark forged for them the [[Matrix of Leadership]], which contained the AllSpark's power and fueled the [[Star harvester|Great Machines]] needed to recharge the AllSpark...by destroying stars. The Dynasty had a single rule in their searches: life is precious, so any inhabited star system was spared. One day, the Dynasty came to Earth and built a machine in Egypt, but when they discovered the humans, twelve of the Primes upheld their law. One of the Primes despised the humans and tried to defy the rule, and he was forever known as The Fallen. He killed eleven of his brothers, but [[Optimus Prime's ancestor|the twelfth]] stole the Matrix and hid it in a tomb made of his brothers bodies, sacrificing his own spark to fuse it shut. The machine was abandoned, and the Seekers dispatched to find the Matrix. If The Fallen finds the Matrix, he will activate the machine, which will mean the end of all life on Earth. Mikaela asks how they can stop him, Jetfire explains that only a Prime can defeat The Fallen. Sadly, The Fallen knew this, and he destroyed the rest of the Dynasty when he returned to Cybertron. A single orphan was hidden from him, unaware of his lineage. Sam recognizes that he's talking about Optimus, and wonders if the Matrix, as a part of the AllSpark, could heal Optimus. Jetfire says it's possible, but they need to find the Tomb first. He then relays a riddle the Seekers discovered: "When dawn alights the Dagger's tip, Three Kings will show the way". Unable to help them further, Jetfire goes back into stasis. Leo is ready to give up, but the rest of the group leaves him and drives far enough away to convince him to shut up and get in Bumblebee.

In New Jersey, the Autobots are loaded onto cargo planes, strapped in nets and under heavy guard. Although they could easily free themselves, they realize that this is what Optimus would want, and that time will make the humans realize that they are still valuable allies. Lennox and Epps have no such extended concept of time, and are angry at the Autobots mistreatment. It would comfort them to know that Morshower and the Joint Chiefs are working to relieve Galloway of command, but without a proper target to retaliate against, the Administration needs a scapegoat.

As Sam's group travels through the desert, Simmons calls his CIA contact in general history, and learns that "the Dagger" is the [[Gulf of Aqaba]], a region which separates [[Egypt]], [[Jordan]], and [[Israel]]. The group find themselves at a checkpoint, and the Twins are easily able to move through without papers as their holodrivers used supermodels. Simmons tries to take charge, but he doesn't speak Arabic and the soldiers do not speak English. Worse, there are cameras at the checkpoint, and Sam tells Bumblebee to drive, fearing that he was identified. They are able to make their way through Cairo, but pick up police on the way. Unable to shake them, Wheels jumps out Bumblebee and attacks the following police car, his screams surpassed only by those of the police. After driving the car off the road, he steals a window wiper as a trophy and says his actions are evidence of his defection. Sam needs to call Lennox and have Optimus brought to Aqaba, but Simmons says that contacting Lennox will allow him to get traced. Instead, Sam calls Lennox's wife [[Sarah Lennox|Sarah]], and tells her what is going on. The group then makes their way to abandoned tourist center outside the [[Pyramid]]s of [[Giza]].

Sarah and Epps wife [[Monique Epps|Monique]] call their husbands, but Galloway refuses to allow a private call and places them on speakerphone. Saying that Monique is interested in plastic surgery, the two wives are able to convey the message in an incredibly unsubtle way. Fortunately, Galloway is untrained in subtlety. Lennox and Epps then talk with the pilot of the plane that will take them back to Diego Garcia, who says that the coordinates are in Jordan. Lennox realizes that Sam knows or has something Megatron wants, and hatches a plan to fake engine trouble over the coordinates, while Lennox has a message relayed to Admiral Morshower, who is trying to get NEST reactivated. Morshower realizes that Lennox knows something and arranges for assets in the target area.

Traveling to Egypt in [[Alternate mode|jet mode]], Megatron makes a stop at the [[Rock of Gibraltar]] and contacts The Fallen, saying that Sam has been spotted in the land where the harvester was constructed. The Fallen tells Megatron the harvesters specific coordinates and gives him two commands: assemble his forces, and prepare for his arrival.

At the tourist center, Sam and Mikaela get into another argument over who will say "I love you" first, with Mikaela pointing out the romantic location under the stars, which jogs something in Sam's memory. He recalls the textbook saying that [[Orion's Belt]] were called the "Three Kings", because they lined up with the pyramids when they were built. The trail leads to [[Petra]], which appears to be a dead end. Skids declares that he's done listening to Sam, and when Mudflap defends the human, the Twins get into a brawl which ends up damaging the ruins. However, it also reveals Cybertronian symbols underneath, and Bumblebee blasts a hole in the wall. They find the Tomb of the Primes, but only find sand where the Matrix should be. Simmons assumes that the Matrix devoured itself in the years waiting, but quickly leaves when he hears C-17s approaching. Sam refuses to believe that something from the AllSpark would simply decay, so he gathers up the dust. On the C-17, the pilot announces engine trouble and orders the passengers to bailout. Galloway is tricked into opening his parachute while inside the plane, forgetting his cellphone and laptop. The team then parachutes out with Optimus' body, and Lennox relays words to the Autobots aboard the other plane, who immediately start releasing exhaust. When a guard opens the cargo door for fresh air, Arcee brings up her guns and "persuades" the guards to allow them to leave. The Autobots meet up with NEST on the ground at an abandoned fishing village. Bumblebee's team is quickly spotted, and a flare is popped. Unfortunately, Starscream reaches the area and releases an EMP burst, disabling communication. He and Megatron begin strafing Sam's group, and Sam and Mikaela leave on foot while Bumblebee, the Twins, Simmons, and Leo draw them away. A force of Thirteen Decepticons then land searching for Sam. At the [[Pentagon]], Morshower begins observing the area through a satellite, but the Decepticons are not on the image. Soundwave is connected to the satellite and is doctoring the video to remove the Decepticons presence. After a while, Morshower becomes suspicious at the lack of communication, and asks for help to be sent from Egypt and Jordan to confirm on site visuals.

In the abandoned village, Sam and Mikaela sneak into a building as Starscream leads a group of Decepticons to search for him. [[Insecticon (Movie)|A tiny Decepticon]] flies in and is crushed before Sam realizes what it is. Starscream tears off the roof and tries to grab the teens, but they manage to escape. Meanwhile, the Twins take Leo and Simmons to a quarry near the pyramids, where they find four heavy Construction vehicles. As Simmons grows suspicious, three more vehicles arrive...and the seven vehicles combine into one: [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]]. Back at the village, Sam and Mikaela are making their way to the soldiers when a Decepticon cuts them off, depositing Ron and Judy Witwicky, and demanding the Matrix. Sam is ready to give him the sand, but Bumblebee manages to ambush the Decepticon and kill him. Sam then tells Bumblebee to take his parents somewhere safe, despite Ron's initial refusal to leave Sam.

At the quarry, the Twins presence causes Devastator to activate his [[Vortex Grinder|maw]] and suck everything in, which includes Skids. As Simmons realizes hiding underneath it is the only safe place, Skids busts out, and Mudflap helps him by climbing up. However, Devastator shrugs them off and makes his way to the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]], where Megatron is waiting. Just then, a [[space bridge]] opens above the pyramid, and a Transformer arrives, this one appearing on fire: The Fallen has risen again, and he commands Megatron to go forth and deliver the Matrix to him. Two Jordanian helicopters arrive; one is shot down, while the other is crashed by the Fallen, who uses [[telekinesis]]. As Simmons and Leo make their way to the downed helicopter, Leo notices Devastator has begun attacking the pyramid, and realization hits Simmons: the pyramid is built right over the star harvester. Taking a radio, Simmons makes contact with [[L. W. Wilder|Captain Wilder]] of the ''U.S.S. Roosevelt'', and says that an experimental [[rail gun]] is the only way to destroy Devastator.

At the village, a UAV reaches the battle site, and begins transmitting information of what is really happening to the Pentagon. Morshower orders everything available sent at once. Just as Megatron arrives and begins attacking in tank mode, heavy armor from the United States, Egypt, and Jordan begin pouring in, reinforcing NEST and allowing Lennox and Epps to reach Sam and Mikaela. Just as they prepare to make a break for it, a Decepticon finds them. Before it can act, Jetfire appears and blows up the Decepticon. Unfortunately, [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] makes a surprise attack on Jetfire, impaling him with his tail. Jetfire is able to rip his head off, but is seriously injured. An Air Force strike manages to destroy most of the Decepticons, and Sam makes a mad dash toward Optimus' body. Just as he reaches it, Megatron fires a shot which hits the ground near Sam, sending him flying. Although Megatron is forced to retreat under human fire, Sam appears dead. Medics are unable to revive him, and even Mikaela's admission of love fails to do anything.

On another plane of existence, Sam finds himself with twelve Transformers, who identify themselves as the Dynasty of Primes. They have been watching him for a long time, as he was destined to find the Matrix. But the Matrix cannot be merely found; instead, it must be earned. Sam's courage, selflessness, and sacrifice were tests, and now he has earned the Matrix, and must fulfill his destiny: raise up the last Prime. Sam is returned to life, and tells Mikaela he loves her, as the Matrix begins to reform before him. Sam makes his way to Optimus's body, and drives the Matrix into him. The plan works, and Optimus Prime is reborn, and pleased that his assessment of Sam was correct. Unfortunately, The Fallen teleports in and steals the Matrix, crushing Optimus beneath him and swatting Ironhide and Sideswipe like they're nothing before teleporting to the now exposed harvester. Sam frantically urges Optimus up, but he is still injured from his fight with Megatron. Already injured, Jetfire offers his parts to Optimus, and snuffs out his own spark. Though all are shocked, Optimus recognizes that they do not have the time to mourn, and orders Ratchet to start refitting the necessary components onto his structure. Soon, Optimus Prime has achieved a [[Super Mode|more powerful flight mode]], and flies off.

At the pyramid, The Fallen, with Megatron, Starscream, and Devastator, inserts the Matrix into the harvester. As it powers up, Devastator sees Optimus and prepares to fire. Just then, Simmons relays coordinates the ship with the rail gun, which fires, killing Devastator. Unfortunately, the machine also activates, firing a beam which destroy the sun in eight minutes. Distracted by Devastator's death and the machine's activation, the Decepticons are unable to shoot down Optimus, who flies through the harvester and causes the beam to collapse, seriously wounding Megatron and Starscream. The Fallen is enraged, not just at the attack on the harvester, but at Optimus's presumption to challenge him, a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]. Optimus declares that The Fallen abandoned that name when he slaughtered his brothers, and that as the last Prime, it is Optimus's destiny to avenge his lineage. As Optimus battles The Fallen, it quickly becomes apparent that Optimus is going to win. Incredulous and angry, Megatron reminds The Fallen of his promise to make Megatron a Prime. Optimus reveals that this is a lie, as Primes are born, not made. Panicking, The Fallen opens a space bridge and tries to flee, but Megatron and Starscream leave The Fallen to his fate. Optimus then rips off the top of the harvester and drives it through The Fallen's head, killing him. Optimus then recovers the Matrix and rejoins the others, who are also joined by Simmons, Leo, and the Twins.

Later, on the ''Roosevelt'', Sam and Optimus watch the view, and Sam says that he can no longer see the symbols. Optimus explains that the knowledge of the AllSpark has been absorbed within the stuff of the Matrix, which is attached to his hip, and thanks Sam for preserving Cybertron's past and saving his life. Sam then asks what the future will hold, and Optimus Prime declares that it is a future Humanity and the Autobots will face together, as their ancestors did once before.

That future may be sooner than they think, for on the ''Nemesis'', Megatron commands his [[Protoform]] army to "arise"...

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] (2)
*[[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] (3)
*[[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]] (4)
*[[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] (7)
*[[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]] (8)
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] (11)
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] (23)
*[[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] (44)
*[[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]] (46)

|c2=
*[[The Fallen]] (1)
*[[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolisher]] (9)
*[[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] (10)
*[[Wheelie (ROTF)|Wheels]] (24)
*[[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] (26)
*[[Ravage (ROTF)|Ravage]] (28)
*[[Alice]] (32)
*[[Microcon (ROTF)|Microcons]] (33)
*[[Scalpel (ROTF)|The Doctor]] (34)
*Unidentified [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicons]] (35–39)
*[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] (40)
*[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] (42)
*[[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]] (43)
*[[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]] (47)
*Unidentified Decepticons (50–63)
*[[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]] (65)
*[[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] (70)

|c3=
*[[William Lennox]] (5)
*[[Robert Epps|Raymond Epps]] (6)
*[[Sam Witwicky]] (12)
*[[Ron Witwicky]] (13)
*[[Judy Witwicky]] (14)
*[[Mikaela Banes]] (15)
*[[Theodore Galloway|Director Galloway]] (25)
*[[Morshower|Admiral Morshower]] (27)
*[[Leo Spitz]] (29)
*[[Sharsky]] (30)
*[[Fassbinder]] (31)
*[[Professor Colan]] (41)
*[[Seymour Simmons]] (45)
*[[Sarah Lennox]] (48)
*[[Monique Epps]] (49)
*[[General Fassad]] (64)
*[[Marouf]] (65)
*The [[King of Jordan]] (66)
*Captain [[L. W. Wilder]] (68)
*[[Captain Jackson]] (69)
|c4=
'''[[Appliancebot]]s'''
*[[Cappuccino bot]] (16)
*[[Ejector]] (17)
*[[Garbage disposal bot]] (18)
*[[Cell phone]] (19)
*[[Microwave bot]] (20)
*[[Dickbot the blender guy]] (21)
*[[Hand mixer]] (22)
'''[[Dynasty of Primes|Primes]]'''
*[[Optimus Prime's ancestor]] (71)
}}

==Quotes==
'''Starscream''': Forgive me, Lord Megatron, but in your absence, someone had to take command. I have deployed spy drones to the insect planet. They have already located the child who—bested you. 
''[Megatron rises and smacks Starscream into a wall]'' 
'''Megatron''': Even in death, there is no command but mine. My words ring truer in my absence than yours when you are present!
:—Megatron and Starscream reunite, but without the slashy subtext.

'''Jetfire''': C'mon, you dimensionally challenged runts, have faith. Gather tight, stand still now, hurry. And lets just pray all my circuits are firing. 
'''Mikaela''': Why do we need to stand still? 
'''Jetfire''': So your parts get there in one piece. 
'''Leo''': One piece?! As opposed to what?!
:—Jetfire needs to work on his sales pitch.

'''Jetfire''': Long ago on these very lands, a legendary battle was fought. A monumental slaughter that divided us all... 
''[Several minutes of silence]'' 
'''Leo''': ''And''...? 
'''Jetfire''': And what? 
'''Sam''': What about the battle? 
'''Jetfire''': What battle?
:—Story time with Jetfire can take a ''long'' time.

"Anyone else get the feeling we got the dregs of the Cybertronian gene pool?"
:—'''Seymour Simmons''' on Skids and Mudflap.

"Everyone's after me because of what I know? Well, I know that this is gonna work." 
"How"? 
"Because I believe it." 
:—'''Sam''' lets '''Mikaela''' know that he'll raise Optimus through [[Burning Justice]] if necessary.

"You dare challenge me?! ''I am a Prime''!" 
"You abandoned that name when you slaughtered your brothers. There is only one Prime now, and my ancestry will be avenged." 
:—'''The Fallen''' and '''Optimus Prime''' settle their family feud.

==Errors==

==Items of note==

===Transformers references===
*The Thirteen Cybertronians who founded the Dynasty of Primes are the same [[Thirteen original Transformers|Thirteen]] originally created by [[Primus]] to man his planet mode.

*The ''Nemesis'' is named for the [[Nemesis (G1)|cruiser]] that the Decepticons used to attack the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'' in [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]].

===Differences with the movie===
*In the film, six Primes killed themselves to create the [[Tomb of the Primes]]. Here, ''eleven'' Primes have already been killed by The Fallen, and the twelfth creates the tomb from their bodies, only killing himself to seal it up.

*Wheels talks in a very [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]-like fashion, but is normal, albeit pretty rude, in the movie.

*More information is given as to how Mikaela gets Wheels through airport security. She told the young male ticket agent that the case contained expensive mechanic's tools an therefore may look strange on the X-ray. That explanation along with her good looks and cleavage distracted the ticket agent enough that he failed to notice anything wrong.

*The Fallen is not present on the [[Nemesis (ROTF)| Nemesis]] when Megatron visits it. Megatron instead speaks with The Fallen by means of an odd communications device which consists of millions of tiny mechanisms which rose from the deck and forms a likeness of The Fallen's head.

*Optimus does not die, but instead goes into a form of [[stasis lock]].

*The Decepticons spend at least a few days looking for Sam before Megatron makes the worldwide broadcast. Additionally, Megatron is so angry he does ''not'' strike Starscream.

*Instead of the Fallen, Megatron is the one who hijacks the news broadcasts.

*Epps and Lennox receive their coordinates via a roundabout conversation from Epps' wife Monique, with some input from Sarah. Simmons is the one who directly tells them where to go in the film.

*The Twins seem to switch places with their movie counterparts. For example:
**Skids is the one who refuses to follow Sam at Petra, and Mudflap comes to his defense.
**Simmons drives Mudflap while leading Megatron and Starscream away.
**Skids is sucked up by Devastator.

*Mudflap does not speak in jive, but instead has a severe lisp. Skids still talks in jive.

*Bumblebee speaks with his own voice several times throughout the novel.

*There a lot of differences in deaths. [[Mixmaster (ROTF)| Mixmaster]] (who is unidentified in the novel), is blown up by Jetfire instead of being bisected and crushed, and then Jetfire rips Scorponok's head off instead of smashing his head. Ravage's death is not mentioned. And finally, like in almost every piece of media, The Fallen is killed by being stabbed through the head with the top of the Star Harvester.

*The Fallen is revealed to have gained Megatron's allegiance by promising him the powers of a Prime, something Optimus reveals as a lie, which compels Megatron to leave The Fallen to his death.

*Optimus' final words in the novel are different. They are the same that were in the comic adaptation.

*Another similarity with the comic adaptation is that Megatron is shown raising his army on the [[Nemesis (ROTF)| Nemesis]].

===Trivia===
*Devastator is formed from seven Constructicons: a green hauler, a [[Long Haul (ROTF)|dump truck]], a [[Scrapper (ROTF)|front loader]], a [[Hightower (ROTF)|construction crane]], and three other unidentified Constructicons.

*The kitchen appliances that are brought to life are called "appliancebots." The "electric mixer" is described as having whirling blades on his hands. There are two mixer appliancebots, but the one with whirling hands is [[hand mixer]].

*In [[Defiance issue 4]], The Fallen claimed he would be imprisoned in his [[sarcophagus]] until the star harvester is rediscovered. This is apparently literally true. It seems the act of finding the harvester somehow freed him from prison.

*Mikaela absolutely despises Leo.

==International printings==

'''Japan'''
*ISBN 4150117152
*ISBN 978-4150117153
*'''Date published:''' [[June 10]], 2009
*'''Publisher:''' [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A9%E5%B7%9D%E6%9B%B8%E6%88%BF Hayakawa Publishing Corp.]
*'''Translator:''' [[Naoya Nakahara]]
*'''Pagecount:''' 416

{{stub}}

==External links==
*[http://www.randomhouse.com/delrey/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345515933 Product page at Del Rey Online]
*[http://www.randomhouse.com/delrey/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345515933&view=excerpt Chapter 1 preview at Del Rey Online]

[[Category:Adaptations]]
[[Category: Novels]]
[[Category: Revenge of the Fallen books]]

Spotlight: Sideswipe

2011-06-02T17:23:10Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Items of note */

{{Comicstory|
|seriesissue=[[Spotlight (comics)|''The Transformers Spotlight'']] #19
|prev=Spotlight: Doubledealer
|next=Spotlight: Blurr
|seriesissue2=[[Revelation (IDW)|''The Transformers: Revelation'']] #4
|next2=Maximum Dinobots issue 1
|image=SL Sideswipe Cover B.jpg
|caption=You must defeat my Dragon Punch to stand a chance!
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[October 8]], [[2008]]
|coverdate=September 2008
|written by=[[Simon Furman]]
|art by=[[E. J. Su]]
|colors by=[[E. J. Su]]
|letters by=[[Chris Mowry]]
|edits by=[[Denton J. Tipton]]
|continuity=[[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[IDW timeline#Revelation|Revelation]]
}}

'''Sideswipe and company work to save Earth as the Expansion comes to its shattering end.'''

==Synopsis==
Hound's team arrives on [[Earth]] to attack Grindcore and Straxus. Sideswipe postulates to himself that everyone thinks he wanted to come to Earth for [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]]. This is true, but not for the reason they think... Sideswipe reveals that Sunstreaker has treated him like a rookie all his life, and he sees rescuing him from [[Machination|whatever trouble he's gotten himself into]] as a way of stepping out of his shadow. He seems more than happy to kick Grindcore's skidplate while the others secure the [[space bridge]], and Ultra Magnus gives them all a convenient rundown of what is going on.

Back at the [[Benzuli Expanse]], the crew of the ''[[Mirror-Manifold]]'' is about to be destroyed by Cyclonus, but they are beamed out seconds before their ship explodes by the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]] in the ''[[Nightbird (ship)|Nightbird]]''. The Autobot scientists waste no time in presenting them with their own personal [[Pretender|Pretender carapaces]]. They exit the cargo ship, wanting to take on Cyclonus personally.

Meanwhile, Jetfire works at the [[Garrus-9]] to subdue the enslaved Thunderwing on [[Corata-Vaz]], giving Springer and his crew the chance to get to the [[Nega-Core]]. Unfortunately, the plan suffers a minor setback when Bludgeon (under the control of Jhiaxus) cuts through the wall, distracting Jetfire enough to reactivate the monstrosity.

Upstairs, things take an unexpected turn for Nemesis Prime. The so-called "Darkness" he covets seems more interested in the new Prime, reaching out to Optimus. It seems the Darkness is not so different from the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]], seeking to be passed on to a successor. Nemesis is no longer in charge of the power, but will not take it lying down. He unleashes an attack on Optimus, keeping him at a distance to keep in control. Optimus tries to reason with him, but Nemesis is not swayed, convinced that it is the next evolutionary step and that the Cybertronians will serve as a template for a new species. Optimus is determined to stop him, as someone watches from the shadows...

Back on Earth, Sideswipe tells Hound and the others to leave the Cybertronians to him, to which Hound responds it was an honor to serve with him. The group splits up, the majority of them going to grab the Nega-Cores while Skram fetches Arcee from beating on Monstructor. The young Autobot realizes it is a losing battle, but he regards it as a good way to die; he feels his rivalry with Sunstreaker is nothing compared to what is going on, and if anything, he has proven to himself what he is capable of doing.

Things seem to be falling apart for Jhiaxus. He stops himself from killing Jetfire, and the Autobot knows there is too much for him to handle all at once, what with the Pretenders breaching the Benzuli Expanse and the Nega-Cores being removed from their locations. Just as Hot Rod reports that the fourth space bridge leads to [[Gorlam Prime]], Arcee is already there, slicing off the Cybertronian's arm before he can do anything else.

Meanwhile, things look bleak for Optimus, but he is determined to stop Nemesis. But just as the fallen Prime counts his victory, Galvatron blasts his leader in the back. Nemesis falls over dead, while the Darkness finally enters Optimus. Prime resists as best he can, but it is a losing battle...until Galvatron offers him a choice: kill himself in the nearby Solar Pool, or willingly pass on the Darkness to the one who has desired it for so long. It was the reason he plunged the first ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'' into the [[Dead Universe]], and he wants what he feels is rightfully his. Optimus seems to relent, reaching out to Galvatron... but at the last minute, just as he passes on the power, he hurls the surprised bot into the pool. Optimus looks over the body of Nemesis, telling himself that he can't mourn him because, in truth, Nova Prime died a long time ago.

The Pretenders successfully push the stasis-trapped Nega-Cores into the Expanse, getting out just before they explode and cause the anomaly to close. The effect is felt all over the galaxy; Sideswipe turns to see Straxus and Grindcore dead, cut off from the power of the Dead Universe. He beams himself back to his ship, finding after all he went through, he just doesn't care about Sunstreaker anymore, and perhaps never did in the end...

[[Image:SpotlightSideswipe Jhiaxus deathbecomeshim.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Ya know, maybe I shouldn't have experimented on her.]]

Meanwhile, Jhiaxus flees the rampaging Arcee, who is cutting through his [[Micromaster]]s, and heads for the gateway below. He is sure she will not cross over and sacrifice her life in this universe... but reckons without the reappearance of Hardhead—now a permanent resident of the Dead Universe—who distracts the ancient Cybertronian long enough for Arcee to tear him to pieces. Arcee comments on Jhiaxus's inability to die, to which Hardhead remarks that while the amoral scientist is on the border of the two universes, he is practically immortal. This seems to suit Arcee fine, and she decides simply to kill Jhiaxus again. And again. And again...

Some time later, Jetfire muses on what has happened. He has been keeping an eye on Gorlam Prime, the residents out of their chrysalis period, evolving into something very different. In fact, the planet is no longer called Gorlam Prime. The locals now call it [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. For the Autobots, it has not been an easy time; [[Maximum Dinobots|certain]] [[All Hail Megatron|events]] have driven them to the brink. But at least for the fallen Cybertronians, it is finally ended. The Expansion is over.

But not quite. Back on Garrus-9, someone has survived...
{{-}}
==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]] (1)
* [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (3)
* [[Skram (G2)|Skram]] (4)
* [[Road Rocket (G2)|Road Rocket]] (5)
* [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (7)
* [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] (8)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (9)
* [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] (11)
* [[Cloudburst]] (13)
* [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] (14)
* [[Groundbreaker]] (15)
* [[Waverider]] (16)
* [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]] (18)
* [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] (19)
* [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]] (20)
* [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)|Lightspeed]] (21)
* [[Strafe (G1)|Strafe]] (22)
* [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (23)
* [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] (24)
* [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (25)
* [[Twin Twist]] (26)
* [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] (27)
* [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]] (29)
* [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] (30)
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (33)
* [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] (39)
* [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] (44)
* [[Fastlane]] (45)
* [[Cloudraker (G1)|Cloudraker]] (46)
* [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] (48)
|c2=
* [[Sixshot]] (10)
* [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] (28)
* [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] (31)
* [[Banzai-Tron (G1)|Banzai-Tron]] (35)
* [[Vortex (G1)|Vortex]] (36)
* [[Gutcruncher (G1)|Gutcruncher]] (38)
* [[Brawl (G1)|Brawl]] (40)
* [[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]] (41)
* [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] (42)
* [[Axer]] (43)
|c4=
* [[Grindcore (G1)|Grindcore]] (2)
* [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] (6)
* [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] (12)
* [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] (17)
* [[Nova Prime|Nemesis Prime]] (32)
* [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] (34)
* [[Monstructor (G1)|Monstructor]] (37)
* Various [[Micromaster]]s (47)
}}

== Quotes ==
"Earth -- At last! The others think it's all about Sunstreaker. And it is. Just not in the way they think. All I want is to save his sorry hide and step out of his shadow forever!"
:—'''Sideswipe''', full of angst.

"Congratulations, Jetfire, you have graduated from an irritation to a full blown nuisance. And in doing so... You merit an untidy death."
:—'''Jhiaxus''' thinks a mere spanking is too lenient.

"I command The Darkness, Optimus Prime, not you." 
"It... commands you!"
:—'''Nemesis Prime''' refuses to believe '''Optimus Prime's''' assertion that he's yesterday's Prime.

"What's the matter, Jhiaxus...things not quite going to plan? Can't quite manage Bludgeon and...be aware of what's happening on other fronts? Maybe you're worried, maybe you're wondering just how much we all ready know..and how much more we'll find out? Question is, can you afford the time and effort to kill me...with your entire strategy about to fall apart?"
:—'''Jetfire''' mocks Jhiaxus' inability to multi-task.

"Cold. Ancient. Terrible. Wonderful. Heart of darkness, it speaks to me. Please no, let me be strong."
:—'''Optimus Prime''', member of the Royal Shakespeare Company.

"I wish I could find it within me to mourn your passing, Nova Prime, but in truth you died a long time ago. The part of you that mattered, the part of you that was a Prime, was lost as soon as you turned away from the light...and embraced the Darkness." 
:—'''Optimus Prime''' will not mourn Nova Prime, but he will eulogize him.

"In the calm after the storm, I think of Sunstreaker. Maybe alive, maybe dead, certainly in some kind of purgatory... Possibly of his own making! And I find I just don't care. Maybe I never did. I trigger my Orbital Jump recall... And don't look back."
:—'''Sideswipe.'''

"Yeah? Hm. Actually, that suits me fine. Means I can keep killing him... Again... And again... And again... And again..."
:—'''Arcee''' finally gets her happy ending. Jhiaxus has had better days.

== Errors ==
* Both Cover A and Cover B have an errant extra Autobot symbol floating around. On Cover A, it is located on Sideswipe's right forearm, and on Cover B, it is located in Sideswipe's armpit. Darn you, Photoshop layers!
* In the one scene he appears in, Blast-Off is drawn as being extremely large in robot mode as compared to the other [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]]. This might have been an attempt on E.J. Su's part to justify Blast-Off's usual space shuttle alt-mode without resorting to [[size changing]]. This makes sense, until you consider that the Combaticons haven't taken Earth vehicle modes at this point in the continuity. Also consider that Blast-Off has appeared twice before, in ''[[Stormbringer (comics)|Stormbringer]]'' and "[[Spotlight: Arcee]]" and both times he was depicted as being normal or average-sized as compared to his comrades.
* When Galvatron asks for the Darkness, he forgets to use the word "to".

== Items of note ==
* E. J. Su handled full art duties on this issue; penciling, inking and coloring the entire issue. The result is ''beautiful'' and so very, very ''shiny''.
* The original plan was for Sideswipe actually to catch up with Sunstreaker and realize "he's no longer just Sunstreaker!" The story would also delve into what a "brother" was for a Transformer, whereas in the printed version, there's no mention of brotherhood at all.<ref>http://idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=42871#42871 Simon Furman Q&A thread on the IDW Publishing forums</ref> The printed version clearly features a darker and less brotherly version of Sideswipe and Sunstreaker's relationship.
* Despite this being Sideswipe's Spotlight issue, the titular character only appears on a mere 7 out of 22 pages.
* In a reply on his blog before "Spotlight: Sideswipe" was released, Simon Furman warned in advance, "I know for a fact not everyone's going to be happy with the way ''Revelation'' plays out" due to the sheer amount of stuff that had to be crammed into a final issue.<ref>http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/double-trouble/#comments Simon Furman's blog comments on the August 19, 2008</ref>
* Due to the truncated nature of ''Revelation'', several threads are left hanging, most notably the fates of Monstructor and Sixshot. Due to the existence of [[Devastator (G1)|Decepticon gestalts]] a year later, Furman has said we should assume the Decepticons got hold of Monstructor and that he likes the idea that the Autobots executed an offline Thunderwing and Sixshot (He ''would'' like the idea of killing more characters off).<ref>http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=5032 Simon Furman Q&A thread in December 2008</ref> However, Sixshot would later reappear in "[[Spotlight: Metroplex]]" and explain that the Decepticons revived him in exchange for Jhiaxus's technology. Bludgeon and Monstructor show up later as well, leaving Thunderwing as the only one "officially" unaccounted for.
* The Autobot Pretender shells are different from the Decepticon ones seen previously in IDW's storyline; there's no indication these could transform, and they resemble armored suits rather than organic horrors. Unlike the toys, the armor does not make them look like 50-foot-tall humans.
* The final transformation of Gorlam Prime into a new Cybertron is similar to the backstory of the ''[[GoBots (franchise)|GoBots]]''; it also calls back to "[[Spotlight: Nightbeat]]", in which Nightbeat wondered if the original Cybertron had [[Beast Machines (franchise)|once been an organic world]], only for everyone to "upgrade" themselves.
* Arcee is freaking terrifying.
* In closing, Jetfire makes references to other miniseries: ''[[All Hail Megatron]]'', and the then-upcoming ''[[Maximum Dinobots]]''.
* Originally (the differently plotted) ''Revelation'' would have led into the six-issue miniseries ''Expansion'', until the latter was canceled in favor of ''All Hail Megatron''.

===Covers===
* '''Cover A:''' Sideswipe amongst rubble, fourth part of 4-issue image by [[E. J. Su]].
* '''Cover B:''' Sideswipe doing an uppercut, surrounded by the series' major players; art by [[Nick Roche]]. This cover art was reused for the TPB cover.
* '''Cover RI''' Front-to-back cover of Doubledealer and Sideswipe, parts 3 and 4 of a 4-issue image by E. J. Su.

<gallery>
Image:Spotlight Sideswipe a.jpg|Round 1... FIGHT!
Image:SL Sideswipe Cover B.jpg|SHINRYUKEN!
Image:Spotlight Sideswipe ri.jpg|Final Battle!
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* ''[[Beast Wars Sourcebook]]''
* ''The Dreamland Chronicles'' figurines
* ''The Dreamland Chronicles'' comic
* ''[[All Hail Megatron]]''
* ''[[Transformers Animated (IDW Publishing)|Transformers Animated]]'' comics
* ''Nightwings''
* ''Star Trek: Romulans: The Hollow Crown''
* ''Igor Movie Prequel''
* ''Adventures in Oz''
* Comics Grading Corporation
* ''Presidential Material'' comics and merchandise (back cover)

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Spotlight issues|Sideswipe]]

Talk:Grindor (ROTF)

2011-06-02T16:19:14Z

Tyrannolodon:

==Background==
Just out of curiosity, do any of the toy bios give an explanation on what Grindor's story is? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 12:27, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
:No, it is just his personality. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

== Accuracy edit. ==

It has been confirmed that Blackout is dead, so I am deleting the part that says he might be Blackout.[[User:Homey|Homey]] 21:29, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
:Where was that confirmed? There's all kinds of back-and-forth on whether it was Grindor or Blackout. Here's Liam Shalloo claiming Roberto Orci has said it was supposed to be Blackout: http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=59821&view=findpost&p=1259230 ...I don't doubt the info, I just think we need to get some links to first-hand info that confirms one way or another, because I'm seeing a lot of arguing and people quoting credible sources without actually sourcing them. [[User:Lukeblast|Lukeblast]] 10:23, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
::Grindor is the only one who is getting mainline toys, though. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:29, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::And Barricade is a definite example that if Hasbro considered him alive, they would have reused him.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 10:43, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Yeah but what does the movie identify him as? Unless the end credits say something, I'm pretty sure he wasn't named at all. People not following the toyline would be forgiven for assuming it's Blackout. This comes under whether the movie is a seperate entity or considered connected to all the other materials. The Grinder toy is clearly Hasbro making some sense out of the movie (and scoring a new toy to boot) but the movie on its own doesn't explain who this is. Narrative convention (and I know that's kinda a bullshit term, but you know what I mean) makes it Blackout. Up to now, he's the only guy we've ever seen before that looks like that. No one else was introduced as a sepearte character.[[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 14:53, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Don't forget that Grindor is a major playable character in the video games. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:52, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::When Dreamworks says Grindor's a misinformation name, i'm inclined to believe them.--[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 17:03, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::When and where did "Dreamworks" say this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:05, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Hey, when an anonymous dude says anything with no source, I'm inclined to believe them! It's a failing of mine. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:32, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::That's more or less what I'm getting at. Even people who aren't anon are throwing around information that can go either way. Some are claiming it came from credible sources, but I've seen no actual proof of those. I have no reason to doubt anyone and no desire to prove anyone wrong; in this case, who is right is less important to me than showing your work. Like many people, the wiki is my go-to site for TF information, and I'm finding that even here, a side has been taken with no conclusive proof that I can see. I'm just asking that a link or quote or something gets dug up and added to this. [[User:Lukeblast|Lukeblast]] 00:15, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Blackout is dead, and the guy in the movie is in Grindor's colors. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:29, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::What's the source for Blackout being dead? The first movie? Megatron was pretty dead too. What's the source for the guy in ROTF being Grindor? The toys? They aren't the movie (let's not forget that the toys also say Jazz and Bonecrusher are still alive). Aside from "Grindor" not standing still long enough for someone to really tell the difference in color between him and the nearly-identical guy from the previous movie, he's never named on-screen. The assumption that if Megatron was brought back, then so was Blackout is a likely one for the average moviegoer (and many fans) to make. Sam's Allspark fragment brought an entire kitchen to life and re-energized Jetfire. Why couldn't the much larger one used on Megatron have brought Blackout back as well? Not to keep harping the same point, but proof is a necessity. I'm seeing well-thought and logical arguments (and personally, I think it's Grindor too), but reasoned assumptions are not the same as sourced facts. [[User:Lukeblast|Lukeblast]] 02:32, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
::::You can see Blackout's remains (in many peieces) among the wreckage to be disposed of on the deck of the aircraft carrier in the first movie.
::::The Decepticons had but one AllSpark fragment.
::::That's not Blackout in the ROTF movie. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:35, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Once again, Megatron was also in pieces. No one has said that Allspark fragments can only be used once (in fact, Sam's was used twice). The argument that he could be Blackout was just as reasonable, which is why I kept harping on the necessity for a sourced statement. Thankfully, the recent Q&A has provided one. I'm gonna link it and remove all doubt... well, I'm sure someone out there will still insist differently, but Hasbro's word trumps fan stubbornness. [[Special:Contributions/98.222.66.80|98.222.66.80]] 19:10, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::It's a common sense argument that anyone could easily accept. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that Wikis have to take canon over common sense, so here's hoping Hasbro backs it up. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 12:47, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Here's something to think about... ''If'' it was Blackout, you would see him erupting from the water beside his master Megatron, like the Constructicons and Ravage did. He was never seen doing that. What do you all think?--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 12:59, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Kind of speculatey. Nearly everything about Blackout's personality was established in secondary media like comics, and I... just don't think the screenwriters or Bay thought that long and hard about his motivations.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:02, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Not to sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but this goes back to what I was mentioning earlier. Everyone is going to secondary sources such as the toys and books and Transformers previous incarnations to compute what, in the film itself, could be counted as actually film errors. A Blackout looking guy showing up even though he was dropped into the water last time. Multiple Constructicons. We can fannon it off that "yeah, there's probably multiple troops with the same body type" and "yeah, the toy says that's Grindor" but avarage movie goers don't know that. The movie doesn't state it, and the movie is, in many ways, considered a spliter timeline from the comics and toy lines and what not. It's its own continuity. [[Special:Contributions/98.235.18.165|98.235.18.165]] 15:48, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Such is the nature of a constructed reality.
:::::But is our own any less inconsistent, or any less artificial? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:44, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::But many of the supposed 'errors' in both the 2007 and 2009 movies ''were'' explained in the original scripts, but the explanations were simply trimmed for time. Those things are not 'errors' or after-the-fact explanations... they are simply things that were ''always'' true which did not make it on-screen.
:::::ROTF is messier, because it has a mix of things that ''do'' make sense if you go back to the original script (which in our case usually means the novel) and things for which explanations were created during-production by Hasbro or the game developers who were workign with the script and started adding to the events off-screen etc... and stuff that is being added after-the-fact to fix problems in the movie or simply fill 'holes.' ("Purple Motorcycle Autobot" seems to not have ''never'' had a name in the course of production. That's not really an error of any sort... it's just that the character's name, bio etc all got filled in later.)
:::::Plus the problems with IDW's expanded continuity, which is always a bit messy.
:::::So do we listen to Orci who says Arcee is a 3-body combiner? Or Hasbro who says it's 3 individuals, one of whom is Arcee? Does Orci ''lose'' his ability to pass judgment on what Arcee 'is' because the combining aspect was completely dropped from the film? "The picture of reality you are presenting is based on an early idea that was dropped. Justifying your picture of reality with the dropped idea invalidates it." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:49, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

== Welker credits according to his site ==

According to [http://www.mkbmemorial.com/FWHp/ Welker's official site], he voices Soundwave, Ravage (huh?), Devastator and Grindor (huh??). What do you guys think? Something to consider is Welker was credited for [[Reedman]], but it's not mentioned on this site. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:42, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
:I'm not entirely convinced that that wasn't updated by someone who read on Wikipedia that Welker voiced Grindor (particularly since it prominently uses of the term "vocal effects", which is how I personally wrote the original sentence on Wikipedia that described Welker's audio efforts for the non-speakers). That is not to say, of course, that Welker did NOT do the effects for Gindor: small as they are, that "sheeagh" when Prime rips his head apart is total Welker. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:45, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
::I'd be willing to take it if we're looking for a justification to do away with this "we don't know who the helicopter in the movie is" nonesense (which really seems to a passive-aggressive form of ROTF butthurt) but McFeely is probably right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:35, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

== Accuracy edit pt 2 ==

Firstly it was confirmed at the premere in tokyo, but you can see for yourselves now that it's out here. Secondly, don't hound people so much.[[User:Homey|Homey]] 16:21, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
:In what manner was it confirmed? How is Tokyi specific tot his? Are you saying that the movie itself somehow confirms this? Was the character's name mentioned in press-releases or interviews for the movie? Did the Japanese dub credit him as Grindor?
:Do you realize that your general hand-wave statement is terribly uninformative? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:37, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

== Protect ==

I say we protect this site as it's being hit by some douchebag annon user.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 12:57, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
:[[User:Jaw123|Jaw123]] isn't an anon though. [[User:Apcog|Apcog]]'s given him a warning, so if he keeps edit warring, stricter action may be taken. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:17, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

== Accuracy edit part 3 ==

Why are you all so fussy? And did any of you read the [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|{{SITENAME_SHORT}} Hasbro Q&A for July 2009]] ? If you didn't, please do. Right now. And I won't keep wasting my time debating about this unless someone has a ''reliable'' source that says that Grindor is Blackout.[[User:Homey|Homey]] 20:49, 3 October 2009 (EDT)

== How big is Grindor exactly? ==

Alright so Blackout was about 33 or so feet tall if the Movie Guide is to be believed, but Grindor is nearly one and a half times taller than Optimus (who is 28 feet tall) is. Well, a MH-53 Pavelow is 88 feet long, 25 feet high, and I'd say about 10 feet wide or so...A CH-53 super stallion is 99 1/2 feet long, 27 3/4 feet tall and I'd say, twelve feet wide? So Grindor can't be that much bigger than Blackout. And yet he is indeed significantly taller despite only having a bit more dimension from his vehicle mode...can someone with the ROTF scale guide answer this for me?

Siberia

2011-05-27T16:49:45Z

Tyrannolodon:

'''Siberia''' is a region on [[Earth]] making up most of northern [[Russia]]. It is ''incredibly'' cold and ''incredibly'' big.

==Fiction==
===Kid Stuff storybooks===
When [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] drained a huge underground [[oil]] reservoir of its contents, it collapsed on itself, causing huge geographical disasters. As Earth's continental plates began shifting, northern Siberia drifted slowly towards [[Alaska]]. {{storylink|When Continents Collide}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[Cobra]] was based out of the [[Terrordrome]], which was safely hidden in the depths of Siberia. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 4|The Art of War #4}}

===''Ghosts of Yesterday''===
[[Sergei Tasarov]], a Russian spy, hailed from [[Irkutsk]], Siberia. {{storylink|Ghosts of Yesterday}}

==External links==
*[[wikipedia:Siberia|Siberia]] at Wikipedia

[[Category:Asia]]
[[Category:Generation 1 locations]]
[[Category:Movie locations]]

Talk:The Fallen

2011-05-27T15:10:04Z

Tyrannolodon: /* A little request */

That bit about how the Fallen was created by Pat Lee? In the latest edition of Wayward's [http://www.insecticons.com/insecticomics.html Insecticomics] it is said that it was actually Furman who created the character, that Lee just did the design. When I asked her about it, she posted this [http://p206.ezboard.com/fthepaddedcell71381frm19.showMessage?topicID=2995.topic&index=107 transcript] which backs that up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 14:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

OK so I just left line in the trivia, cos I thought it was funny.
* So he's the henchman of a evil being, has mystical supernatural powers, is a badass and is on fire? Someone might want to file a law suit.

Can it stay or should I take it back down?[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

..I don't even get that. [[User:AlwaysWrong|AlwaysWrong]] 22:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)
:It was removed, it contained a link to the wikipedia article for Ghost Rider[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

==Head==
Anyone notice that his head is very Soundwave-y? When i first saw him, i clearly recognized his head as soundwave's with added badassery.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 05:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

==Disambig time?==
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=59522272-D56F-E112-4C783175A8BBBAD6

Ah-heh.

(SOMEBODY IN THAT MOVIE DAMN WELL BETTER BE ON FIRE.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

==Fallen, Bludgeon and Megs==

I don't know about Bludgeon, but there is a connection between the Fallen and Megs: IDW Megatron's Cybertronian body is based off of the Fallen, right down to the design of the Fusion Cannon. [[User:GWolfv2]] 21.07 June 11

== Defiance issue 4 Fallen's backstory ==

Defiance issue 4 is out. [http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/revenge-of-the-fallen-prequel-comic-defiance-4-provides-potential-movie-spoilers-167267/ TFW2005.com has posted all the Fallen-relevant spoilers from issue 4, but beware, if you're avoiding Defiance, this spoils the Fallen's crazy scheme in the movie]. The backstory for the Fallen seems fairly different to the Fallen we know. So are they still the same guy? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:56, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Still appears to be a member of the Thirteen, still appears to betray them, still apparently serves a force that devours planets/stars.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:12, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::But from what I understand of the "multiversal singularity" characters thing, there's just one Fallen, so the guy created by Primus who eventually serves Unicron is also a guy created by a Cube who serves nobody but himself and is building solar towers to replenish the Cube. Or is the currently-untold story of the 13 vague enough that this still works? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::It does seem pretty distinct. One's a "created by mighty power source, got selfish, betrayed his brothers, now want to kick off where things went wrong" other "created as a multiversal control for entrophy and warrior against Unicron. Switched sides. Most dangerous servant of the ultimate evil ever". [[User:Eire]] 21.21 Apr 8 2009 (UTC)
:I don't trust a 3rd party summary written by someone who may not fully understand the story to accurately represent what's actually in the story. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:44, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::In any case, I suspect we are probably going to need to wait to see what the movie itself has to say before making a decision on this. It may expand on what is presented in the comic, it may contradict it in some way, it could make it easier to tie this version in with the previous mythos or may firmly separate it, etc. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think we would have to wait until the movie if the comic is fairly clear on the matter. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::::I think we do, because as I said, we have no way of knowing in advance how well the actual movie will line up with the comic. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:05, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:The Fallen is one thing, but what about definite "multiversal singularity" Primus? Does the AllSpark=Primus in the movieverse? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::The AllSpark has been designated a [[sacred implement]] in Japanese fiction.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:07, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::It is not uncommon for Transformers to have no knowledge of Primus or Unicron. For every world where they have a full-blown religion to fill them in, you have one where the Transformers have neither heard of either-- remember in [[The Transformers: The Movie]] Hot Rod and Kup had never even heard Unicron's name before. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
Did they not mention that the Fallen calls himself and his other pals "trans-dimensional beings"? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:48, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Not the mention [http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2009-04-01-transformers-first-look_N.htm this interview] affirming he's the original and was "banished to another dimension." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
::I think what they mean by that is that he's stuck in that stupid pylon. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:15, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

==The Fallen gets Power Plans!==
[http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2009/05/transformers-movie-universe-preview.html] Preview page from the upcoming DK Ultimate Movie Guide, which is totally written by Furman. It establishes a few important things. The Fallen is an "omniversal tyrant." He betrayed his fellow Primes to serve the source of his new "chaotic" powers "from the very birth of the universe," forces which seek to replace morality with a "void." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:If Nimoy is cast as him, it will be the second time in his career that he'll be playing some sort of servant of Unicron. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

== Subject Seperation ==

Will you make a separate page the live action version of the Fallen? --Some Random User guy {{unsigned|69.230.53.229|00:50, May 20, 2009 EDT}}
:As we far as we know, the Fallen is a multi-dimensional being that can... you get the picture. If this Fallen is established as a seperate being, then maybe.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 01:01, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::And as seen in Walky's post above this, the DK guide establishes the Fallen as an "Omniversal tyrant". That more or less means the Fallen is one of those characters who can travel between dimensions, and there's only one of him. Thus, we consider ROTF Fallen to be the same guy as Dreamwave comics Fallen, unless the movie says otherwise (and it obviously won't). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::Despite the brain-bending problems this creates with the other 12, yes. Are they all birthed by the AllSpark then? That's not what The Ultimate Guide says... (We'll figure it out. Expect the backpedaling, qualifications and clarifications to begin trickling in this fall.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::You know, the movie universe could have two individuals named the Fallen. I mean, it's not a real name, but rather a sort of title, right? Why couldn't the omniversal tyrant and some douchebag that came from the AllSpark live in the same universe? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:26, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::'''Two''' dimension-hopping flaming ancient Primes who discarded their name in favor of being called "The Fallen" after betraying their 12 fellow Primes, the oldest of Transformers?
:::We already have the Covenant and the Thirteen. Don't make this ''more'' complicated. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:39, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I personally think they should be seperated. I mean, he's been trapped in that relic, or whatever it exactly is, for a really long time. How could he of shown up in the IDW series? And, the other 12 sacrificed themselves, so, how could they exist either? -[[User:VakamaMetruNui|VakamaMetruNui]] 09:29, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::::(The Dreamwave series, not the IDW series.) That's really easy to explain. The DW Fallen was also trapped in a dimension, same as the Movie one. He was able to break free of it due to a space bridge accident, and was apparently banished back to it by Primus. (He would have returned if DW hadn't gone bankrupt, so he wasn't dead.) Who knows how time and space work in there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:11, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Unicron keeps showing up in new places yet always gets defeated in more or less the same way; why should his gothy wanna-be have it any better? Since his "real" origin was as a creation of Primus, perhaps the entire Movie AllSpark / Movie Original 13 was something the Fallen himself put together later--he tried his own hand at being a god, while actually not claiming credit for it but just inserting himself among the lineup, like Keyser Soze. Or maybe he used his woowoo omniversal magic to sense that some other god was about to create the AllSpark, and then he twisted the whole process to his own ends. Who knows. And if all that sounds like a deus-ex-machina, remember that that is LITERALLY what he is. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:24, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
[[Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|right|thumb|100px|What dimension did this happen in? The movie-verse? Not necessarily.]]
::::::I think splitting the page of a known dimension-hopper goes against common sense. Without a really good reason, of course. I don't think there is a good reason yet. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:47, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::At BotCon 2009, Hasbro copy-writer Forest Lee stated once again (at the Collectors' Club panel) that the Original 13 are all multiversal singularities. Apparently the upcoming movie hasn't changed his mind! So let's hold on to our current setup for the time being. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:11, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::He didn't state this before, IIRC he stated that they were ''probably'' Multiversal singularities before.
::::::::Do you or anyone (Steve) have an exact working on his statement this weekend? It's worth citing it on the 13 page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:52, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::I don't, no. And Steve-o wasn't there this weekend, so we are without his meticulous information-gathering. He did specifically say that the original 13 were multiversal singularities, though. It was in response to someone asking if Shattered Glass The Fallen would be icy. Forest said that as one of the 13, The Fallen doesn't have any multiverse counterparts. There's just one of him, the same as Vector Prime and the others. (Trent noted that he liked to believe that if the Fallen were to ever wander into the Shattered universe, his flames would turn to ice, much to his confusion.)--[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:53, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
Is there evidence that supports ROTF Fallen is the same as the character in The War Within?--[[User:TOM|TOM]] 13:20, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
:Evidence in the form of fictional stories? No. Apparently not. It is all shadow evidence as far as I can tell. Word of mouth at conventions and [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|a Hasbro Q&A]]. Should the wiki hang its hat on such shadow evidence? Or would the "multiversal singularity" thing be better put in the "notes" section until it shows up in fiction? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:53, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
::If this Wiki wants to wait on merging Alpha Trions I suggest your side doesn't split the G1, UT, ROTF and Prime versions of Prima, Megatronus, Liege or Vector. And it wouldn't call it shadow evidence considering Megatronus explicitly described his brothers as able to traverse dimensions, or Vector and Nexus being the sole versions of those characters flying about the timelines. "[[Reunification: Part 5|All Cybertrons are yours.]]" [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 14:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie altmode ==

FYI: If we get Hasbro photography depicting a toy with an altmode (we have!) and the paragraph in question is describing that toy, then ''the presence of said altmode is officially confirmed''. I don't know under what logic you can say otherwise.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:10, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:Remember Scorponok's robot mode? I believe the debate is whether or not The Fallen's vehicle mode was something invented for the toyline. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
::Except the altmode description was removed from the toy section. The toy has an altmode. Plain as day. Thus the section describing that toy ought to mention said altmode.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:07, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Ah, right then. Well... most of what I said can be salvaged, assuming this argument comes up outside the toy section. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 21:14, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

== Decepticon symbol ==

I see there is a Decepticon symbol on The Fallen's page for a long while, is this something related to his toy(s)? Thanks. (I can't reach my Titanium Fallen now, so... ) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 11:24, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
: His ROTF toy packaging consistently labels him a Decepticon. He helped Megatron START the Decepticon faction in the live-action continuity. And the Decepticon faction symbol is based on his face. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:35, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:::So it is really due to the ROTF. Thanks. ;-D --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 12:55, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

::What they said.
::I notice the Beast-machines Dinobots symbol links to the Dinobots disambig page-- was it used tor the Wal-Mart Dinobots as well? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:56, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

==Mainpic==
When the Wikia site comes up on Google, it also has a secondary link, which is their version of this page. Our secondary link is [[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|''Animated'']], which is unfortunately now a bit less relevant than theirs. (Notably, they've even rebranded their site to have a Movie look.) Happily, our [[The Fallen]] is much better than theirs because we've expanded the DW section, and they still haven't written ANYTHING about the prequel comics. Plus, y'know, there's [[:Image:WikiaAdInsert_TheFallen.jpg|the stuff that made us leave in the first place]]. But in the interests of sealing the relevancy deal, I suggest we change the mainpic to be The Fallen's ROTF body. That way even at a GLANCE a viewer can see which one is more up-to-date. What do you all think? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:23, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:I support this. We've got good promo renders of it. Let's do it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me, I say go for it. Maybe change it back when the movie buzz fades down, but for now, yeah, totally. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:44, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Heh, so they merged the articles back. TX55 was an editor here. Doesn't he notice the borked layout of the images? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:00, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

===New main pic===
[[Image:ROTF The Fallen promotional 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|You dare photograph me?! I am a a Prime!]]
Swap the current one for a promotional shot from [[Josh Nizzi]]'s website? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 13:58, 21 July 2009 (EDT)
:Naw, I prefer the one we have now. Flashier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:12, 21 July 2009 (EDT)

==Grargh fiction==
Do we really need to separate out his various DK Ultimate Guide and Titanium information into their own little sections. Can't we throw those into the beginning of the Dreamwave continuity section and cite them appropriately? This page is now a real friggin' chore to read and understand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:58, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, it sorta feels like it's... out of order. Cause, it is. Fictionally. I mean, I grok what Jackpot has done - he's put it in publication order, which I know is an approach that he's generall favoured in the past, but to me, it just doesn't "read" right. (Also, I am totally about to ruin the "he is on fire" joke. Watch me go!) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:05, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
::I feel a little weird about combining them like that, but I don't full-on object. I don't think there's ever been precedent for putting toy-bio info into a comic-series summary, but in this case there was clearly intent behind the bio to make it mesh, and there are no variant ''War Within'' "continuities." All I can do is note that it's unorthodox and move along.
::Oh, and Walky, thanks for restoring the continuity-family headers. My theory is that since our default organizational model is to separate our articles based on continuity family, whenever we break that "rule," we should call it out.
::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:49, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

==Really not buying the 'multiversal singularity' thing here==
Recently, I saw the new movie and....... I don't see how it could possibly be the same character as in Dreamwave's comics.
Not only is his entire backstory different, but his motives also seem different and the film also makes mention that The Fallen was a member of 8 original leaders (if I remember correctly), as opposed to 13.
Not to mention his radically different appearance (the other 'multiversal singularities' at least all looked alike) and abilities.

Unless the writers find a way of explaining how this could be possible, I don't see how it makes any form of sense.
:The fact it's 8 and not 13 is the first sign that the writers ''intend'' to explain it. They're backpedaling away from making it "The 13" because it creates ''way'' to many problems.
:We all basically agree that it makes not sense now, but this ('''very''' last-minute) change strongly indicates that it ''will'' make sense, and that Hasbro's story-gurus has finally figured out how they intend to make it fit. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:33, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::I seriously doubt that Hasbro's story-gurus had any imput whatsoever on the contents of the movie itself. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:35, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, I think that rather than being The 'Multiversal Singularity' Fallen, The (ROTF) Fallen is just a 'fallen' Prime who is subsequently and coincidentally called "The Fallen". He happens to have the same name, like Prowl, Prowl, Prowl, Prowl and Prowl.[[Special:Contributions/218.214.49.189|218.214.49.189]] 21:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::That's nice, but Hasbro's packaging bio writer is saying that's not the case. Thus we have to go with what he says. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
So... Doesn't this mean that since he died in the movie, he has died in all universes forever, since he is a "multiversal singularity"?[[Special:Contributions/76.251.230.101|76.251.230.101]] 19:59, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:When a multiversal singularity "dies" in one universe, he'll reappear in another universe --[[Special:Contributions/72.64.107.124|72.64.107.124]] 20:02, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::I've seen that idea expressed on the Wiki before, but I've never seen a source for it. Basically... says who? In fact, most of what we "know" about multiversal singularities comes not from the fiction itself, but from creator comments. I don't agree with putting [[authorial intent]] on that high a pedestal, especially when its results are flat-out nonsensical. I think that at best, author-intent should get a Note, not define central aspects of how we describe characters. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:16, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Hear hear! Besides, saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not. Then we get a weird state of 'he's mostly a multiuniversal singularity, except where he isn't' situation. I think this sort of notion warrants about as much consideration as a Madman DVD book saying that Cyclonus categorically was Skywarp - we note it, then we go on with the rest of our lives. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:37, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::There's at least some indication that Mowry and Furman are going to attempt to reconcile the multiversal singularity thing, or at least hang a lampshade on it and run with it, in [[Tales of the Fallen]]. We may get our answer soon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:09, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::''saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not''
:::::Bingo. No matter how much people might like Forrest's ideas, it's just as much "authorial intent" whenever anybody else at Hasbro or IDW or Bay's workshop says something that contradicts him. We know he's multiversal, or "omniversal," whatever, because one of the movie guidebooks says so. I try not to think too hard about the "13-whoops-7-Primes" clusterfuck. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:48, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I think the idea of Multiversal Singularities dieing in one universe and appearing in another has 2 sources: 1) Unicron - He's a multiversal singularity and this is demonstrably how he works, and 2) Vector Prime - After his death in the UT he's seen again in the final credits battling Galvatron again. Granted it's supposition, but I think that's the basis for the idea.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 21:22, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Unicron's many deaths constitute one of the reasons why the multiversal-singularity idea is generally thought to be nonsensical. The idea that he "respawns" every time he's destroyed is a rationalization somebody here came up with; it's never been shown to ''happen'' in the fiction. And Vector Prime's case barely applies; he wasn't destroyed the way Unicron or The Fallen were; he just permanently phased outside of normal time because he overexerted his temporal powers. It was presumably in this non-time limbo that he battled Galvatron again, and where he will be forever. Ultimately, I think Rosicrucian's right: We should wait until "Tales of the Fallen" comes out before we make any hard-and-fast calls on the subject. But I've [[Talk:Unicron#"Respawning"?|long thought]] that we should be more rigorous about letting the fiction alone define "multiversal singularity" instead of the authors, and I'll be more than happy if future information radically changes what we think it means. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::The bio for TRU-excl. Universe Unicron says he travels through multiple dimensions and that whenever he dies he comes back to life. I don't think it says he has to be reobrn in a different dimension than the one he just died in, but honestly, once they've officialized and published the "multidimensionality and immortality" aspect, precisely where he is at ANY given moment in any life doesn't matter. But that's just Unicron--there's nothing as cut-and-dried in published form for the rest of them, I don't think. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:08, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::Ah, that's interesting. Let's [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2856639219_b4fb44b44e.jpg?v=0 take a look]... Hm, it actually sounds more like Vector Prime's existence than the hoppity-hop-from-universe-to-universe model that's been the wiki party line. Unicron "floats through the non-space between dimensions, reaching out with his sensors to find the universe with the most energy. Those dimensions he finds suitable, he consumes." Also, "He has been defeated or destroyed countless times, yet he always returns [...] for [...] He is evil incarnate, and as long as there is evil, there is Unicron." It sounds like, whereas Vector Prime is stuck outside of time and can only send messages (or swords) into the timestream, Unicron can actually manifest himself in a very real and devastating way. But they share some essential transcendent nature, which to me is a bit more sensical than the more linear model. I read it to mean that basically he can keep coming back because he's always got one foot outside of normal space-time, and destroying a specific incarnation will never be enough. It's not a full "death." Plus he's got that strange relation to the concept of evil, which is backed up in the ''Armada'' cartoon when only Galvatron's death and the resulting end of the war could destroy him. As you say, I don't know how this would apply to The Fallen or others, but one thing at a time... - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:06, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::It's not particularly relevant, but I just want to point out that Vector Prime ''did'' actually die, in the sense that his linear lifespan came to an end point. He continues to exist because ''prior'' to his death, he spent most of his existence outside of the timestream, and since time has no meaning there, he will ''always'' be there, watching and guiding. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:55, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

== Change of appearance ==

From TF; The Movie Universe
{{quote|The Fallen butchered and betrayed his brother Primes, disowning his given name in favor of one befitting his new, terrifying appearance.|[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]] p86|"The Fallen"}}
Late intot he game, we have the idea that The Fallen may have changed his appearance. (And since his appearance is really no different than the other Primes... it begs the question what the hell this is talking about.)

Oh, and Walky was wondering abotu the curiously-regular panes of transparent plastic on The Fallen toy's shoulders... accordign to the guidebook, he has "Energon Distribution arcs" in his shoulders-- I think they're actually supposed to represent some sort of energy blade. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:44, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Unreliable narrator ==

So I saw the ROTF film. It really doesn't clash with the Multiversal Singularity thing too bad... it's Defiance that's the real problem. And I'm beginning to think that Definace just had a ''serious'' case of "unreliable narrator."

Let's assume (for a moment) that the Fallen ''was'' lying about parts of his backstory to Megatron. He certainly didn't mention Primus or Unicron (so we know he left stuff out) and we know he was snowing Megatron about making him a Prime (something you apparently have to be born to in the Movieverse.) He's ALREADY demonstrably lying, so lets throw out everything he said about his own origins, and assume he's actually the same dimension-hopping spanish-speaking nutjob we know and love-- what would the universe 'look' like?

Logically, The Fallen {{redact|''traveled'' to this universe and integrated himself with it-- somehow convincing the six Founding Primes of the universe that he was one of them. He then secretly endeavored to murder them all, destroy the Earth and seize ultimate power for himself using the sun harvester.}}

Of course, if this was '''actually''' what happened, and The Fallen is lying... you'd expect there to be some ''indicator['' of this in the IDW comics.

[[Image:Ros03 cuberitual.png|thumb|250px]]
Oh hey, look at that! It's the ancient illustration Starscream was trying to replicate in "Reign of Starscream"! The ''only'' piece of evidence from the era of the original Primes that ''doesn't'' come from our Unreliable Narrator. And what does it show?
{{redact|'''Six''' Primes surrounding the AllSpark cube as it is renewed by the Sun Harvester. '''Not''' seven.}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:55, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:As much as I really want to make this all work, I don't know if I want to go the Unreliable Narrator route. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:18, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::Neither do I... but if IDW chooses to quietly change the 13 primes to the 7 in their Movie Spotlight books... at ''that'' point the Fallen's retelling of history becomes much more actively wrong, and this bit from Reign of Starscream fits quite nicely.
::I figured it was worth highlighting as a possibility. It wouldn't be appropriate to present it as "fact" until IDW gets a crack at it. (It seems almost inevitable that there are Retcons Comings.) But i was pleased to discover that there's at least one ''fairly'' clean way here to make things more-or-less fit, and it ties into some pre-established continuity arond Starscream's plan with the [[Replica AllSpark]], which is a definite plus in terms of making the change less jarring. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:27, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Your way probably works better than my "the other 6 Primes were busy." But still, that's fanon until Forest Lee gets a crack at it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:31, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::...That leaves me a little worried that we're putting our hopes on IDW. Especially since they caused quite a few of the problems. And lets not even get into their record of continuity consistency in okaying [[All Hail Megatron]]. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:34, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::But '''nothing''' the movies is 100% consistent with one another. Did you notice Leo mentioned the big fight from the 2007 movie took place in '''L.A.'''? And the IDW comics aren't in continuity with the ''first'' movie in a strict sense either-- Reign of starscream dedicated a page to re-doing the "gathering of the 'cons" from the dfirst movie ''just'' so they could assert "no, he's called BRAWL damnit." Or the helicopter being shot down over <strike>Afganistan</strike> America.
:::::Frankly, I think think the wiki would be best off is we weaned ourselves of this tendency to present the IDW comics as somehow "the primary continuity." They're definitely bound up tightly with the movies... but they ''aren't'' in perfect continuity with them-- and it's not just oddities, it's outright deliberate contradiction, like the Brawl thing. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Until I get an official reasoning to change continuity flow of various fiction, I'd rather leave the articles as they are. Brawl thing - who cares, really? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:36, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::By which you mean "structured differently than every other fiction section on the wiki." ;)
:::::::(I'm not really pushing for the restructure either. Just talking in general terms.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:54, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I'm set in my ways, dagnabbit. Yeah, the movie kind of started the movement of supporting fiction such as comic books and novels more or less directly being in continuity with the primary fiction, something we saw later in Animated. As opposed to the traditional TF method of having comics and cartoons and books all going in completely different directions. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:26, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

::::You've got it backwards. The Mowry-penned stuff has some of the best internal consistency of the entire continuity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Right, Mowry was foreshadowing the RotF plot in the second issue of Reign of Starscream, before ''anything'' had leaked. And he seems to have a pretty clear idea where almost ''every'' character "was" before and after the war, how they're related to one another, etc. He also did a ''lot'' of ground work to make the game drones fit right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

== Voyager toy ==

The Voyager toy has slidable gauntlets, shinguards, and some kind of firey thing under the shinguards, but none of these are called out in the instructions, or seem to serve any point in either mode. Should this be mentioned in the article, and if not, does anyone know what the deal with them is?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 20:50, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

== "saturn"? ==

Especially because the novel specifically says it's not Saturn, can we get rid of this? Unless it was revealed in an interview or on a toy bio or something, all the movie shows is that it's on the moon of a ringed planet - without specifically identifying it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:22, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:I think it has to be Saturn unless it is a plot hole. Megatron just flies there in about a day or so. It has to be in the solar system, I think. Megatron was never shown to have a personal space bridge like Jetfire. Can Megatron travel faster-than-light? Possibly, but the space bridge seems to be this universe's faster-than-light technology. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:57, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::I recall seeing something about how Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but that he's supposed to be one of the few Transformers who can. Additionally, we see the Decepticons travel to Earth in transition form, implying that they are coming from somewhere in the solar system. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:59, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but in a day or two? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:02, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::And return with Starscream and Grindor? And have The Fallen and a buttload of new Hatchlings arrive not soon after? They can't be lightyears away. That'd basically be Yet Another Plothole. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:09, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::According to the Ultimate Guide, The Fallen actually can do something like a space bridge, so wouldn't it be possible for the Fallen to have brought them to the final battle? Unless the Fallen can only do personal transport.
:::::For Grindor, though, do we know he was actually on the Nemesis?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:47, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::I thought someone might suggest that about The Fallen, so I didn't argue that point. I think that if he has the ability to space bridge armies across interstellar distances I would wonder why he would need the Nemesis at all. Starscream also made it to the Nemesis but he had a little longer, he could have hailed a space taxi or something. I think the movie strongly implies the Decepticons traveled by protoform from a relatively short distance and landed on the aircraft carriers. Even The Fallen. He seems to have traveled by protoform. Maybe space bridging long distances uses too much energy? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:13, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::"Saturn" appears to have a nebula in the background in the movie.
:::::::Which means that unless you can provide a cite for it being Saturn, it's not Saturn. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 July 2009 (EDT)

==Power of a Prime?==
Why is that important? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 20:15, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why is pointing out the differences between the film itself and its adaptations important? Is that what you're asking? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:19, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why IS information about a Transformer in a Transfomers wiki important, I wonder? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:50, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:The novel and comics are similar enough to the movie that they don't merit their own sections on the page, so the few significant differences that DO crop up need to go SOMEWHERE. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:53, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

==Main Pic==

Since the standard practice to to have the main image use the body the character first appeared in, rather than their most recent or more well known, shouldn't the main pic here be his Dreamwave body? [[User:Eire]] 23.45 18 Aug 09 (UTC)
:In this case it was changed so that movie visitors wouldn't reach the page and go "who the hell is this guy?" as well as to visually distinguish our article from Wikia's.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 19:25, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

==Leader Class==

I found a clip on Youtube about a Leader class The Fallen toy. It's extremely close to the CGI version in design and look and it comes with a staff. I think it's a fanmade one, but it's definitely worth noticing. I have proof. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q142a9Fl9_c]--[[User:Cydra|Cydra]] 09:49, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, that's a custom by FrenzyRumble. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:51, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

== Image:Vectorprimeut.jpg ==

OK, who put that there? The Fallen isn't even on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:07, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
: Read the caption and come back to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:09, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::I just wasted two seconds on reading a caption which I have already memorized, and another ten on checking the image again. The Fallen is NOT on the image. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:19, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
:::...yes he is. See the guy behind Vector Prime? His silhouette matches The Fallen's. Pay special attention to the little spikey hangy-things on his crotch, plus the shape of his head. And don't talk to ME about wasting time. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:21, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::::My bad. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:26, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

== Unable to edit ==
I noticed that I am unable to edit The Fallen page why is that. Also I thing the sarcophagus should have its own link and that it should be edited to make it more appropiate. --[[User:Naruotfox94|Narutofox94]] 10:04, 14 November 2009

== Lawson Exclusive EZ Fallen??? ==

Just noticed the pic of the 'Lawson exclusive' EZ figure.

Apparently the version of EZ Fallen released in the 2-pack with Soundwave was actually the standard US version, and the Takara-Tomy picture was incorrect. Unless anyone has an official source (in-hand pictures, on-line sales listings etc) that says the Japanese version of the Legends figure is any different from the US colours, I'd recommend deleting this photo. [[Special:Contributions/213.123.203.109|213.123.203.109]] 09:03, 1 December 2009 (EST)
:... that doesn't make any sense. If we don't have any in-hand photos, how do we know it's the SAME as the US release? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 10:10, 1 December 2009 (EST)
::So what you're saying is that we have this exclusive Legends Fallen, now released in Japan. You'd think it might show up ''somewhere''? But there's not a squeak of it on YouTube, on eBay, or for that matter ANY Transformers retailer or website you can care to name (trust me, I've checked). I realise it's supposedly an exclusive, but I can't think of another occasion in all my years of collecting when a figure's been commercially released and yet NO-ONE has seen it. As I say, I think it's just a bad photograph.

::Also, note that the two supposed 'exclusives' in this Lawson offer were Mudflap and The Fallen... which haven't actually been released in Japan as part of the main EZ line (nor have they been announced as forthcoming). So it would make sense that these are the standard US versions, which were Lawson store exclusives in Japan. Just like how ROTF Deluxes Dead End, Swerve and Stalker Scorponok were on general sale in the US but store exclusives in Japan.

::I seem to recall pictures of Takara Deluxe Ravage and Voyager Mixmaster with different paint apps too (extra purple on Ravage and a different coloured head on Mixmaster) - yet both releases ended up the same as their US counterparts. Early photos of the Takara combiner Devastator (shown in Hyber Hobby and Dengeki Hobby) has the US grey face that was later changed to red in Japan. We now know that the Deluxe red Rampage has a movie-accurate silver shovel, not the red one we saw in the early pictures. My point here is that promotional photos are notoriously unreliable.

::I realise I'm on shaky ground here - It's very difficult to prove something ''doesn't'' exist. But I think at the very least the point should be made on the page that this so-called redeco has never - to anyone's knowledge - been sighted outside of a low-res photo on the Takara website. And possibly never will.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 13:55, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::This strikes me as a question that would easily be resolved if we had actual contact with the Japanese fanbase.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 7 December 2009 (EST)
::::OK, after a bit of research, I've discovered that the US and Japanese versions of these legends are IDENTICAL. There are pictures on TFW2005 (I think you need to be a member to sign into the forums) [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-toy-discussion/281376-rotf-takara-v-hasbro-comparisons.html] So this page ''does'' need to be changed, as does Mudflap's.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 17:20, 7 December 2009 (EST)

== Page Quote ==

To be fair... whether or not it should be changed to LesterX's idea, the current quote does suck. It says pretty much zero about the Fallen's personality or motivation or purpose or anything. All it says is that he's from some past time period, which is true of every 13 member. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:21, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:I never was crazy about it but it does do a good job of summing up a pretty major aspect of the character. I'm gonna go through all his comic appearances and have a look for a better one (can't think of one from the movie) [[User:Eire]] 00.00 Jan 08 2009 (UTC)
::Change the top quote all you want, but "kali ma" is so not going away for another damn "Give me your face" joke. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:05, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:::No argument from me on ''that'' regard. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:14, 7 January 2010 (EST)

==Separate==
I recommend that this page be split into two different pages, as the backgrounds differ. (I would type in a label, but the thing won't let me) [[User:Cold Rod|Cold Rod]] 16:23, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
: I recommend you learn what [[multiversal singularity]] means. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:38, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
::Of which the movie version is not. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:41, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::I would like to laugh at this, because do you see that big pile of text on [[multiversal singularity]]? That was taken from a Hasbro response ABOUT SPECIFICALLY MOVIE THE FALLEN. The original question was "If The Fallen is a multiversal singularity, how can we reconcile these various different movie-originated versions of him, like in the novelization and childrens storybooks?" And then we got that answer. So to say that the answer does not pertain to movie The Fallen betrays a monumental ignorance of the subject at hand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:11, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::Prove it. According to Hasbro multiversal singularities can have different backgrounds in different universes and still be the SAME character. Confusing, but true. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::So they look exactly the same then? they have the same background? [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:56, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::Somebody sign this guy up for a course in logic. Or at least ENGLISH. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::Seriously, read the [[multiversal singularity]] page. Specifically "multiversal dynamics". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:00, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::You said '''can''', not '''do'''. There's a difference. '''Can''' means possibly. '''Do''' means certainly. It doesn't prove their one and the same. The one bathed in fire isn't a Decepticon. In addition, Teletraan 1 (the other wiki) split theirs. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 13:05, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Then go annoy them and leave us alone. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:08, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Besides, the other wiki is pretty much abandoned by this community. They're now almost independent. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Hasbro said they were the same character. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:09, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yes, can. The Fallen has different backgrounds in different universes, but is still a singularity. Other singularities have the same background in different universes. Thus, singularities CAN have different backgrounds. Also, what Teletraan 1 does is not an argument that will go over well here. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:10, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::To cut a long story short, we're treating them as the same because Hasbro writer [[Forest Lee]], who's basically responsible for all the multiversal singularity stuff, ''says they are'', and has offered an explanation for how that works. And yes, kindly refrain from holding up ''anything'' Teletraan-1 does as a basis for how we should do things. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:22, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::I thank the other wiki a billion times for separating their Fallen pages, because Google sure likes our page way better now! (and that was fairly immediate) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:07, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Google still prefers Wikia if you add "Transformers" to your search terms for "The Fallen", at least from what I can tell. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:18, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

== Multiversal Clean Up ==

Some people's stubborn refusals to understand his nature aside, I think the article as written right now might contain a few too many "artifacts" from when we were still rather unsure of the Fallen's Multiversal Singularity status and how it worked. The "Origin" section for instance seems to exist entirely to present his differing origins as being a conflict while not mentioning at all that Hasbro's explanation on how singularities work explains any conflict away.

I think the page could use a slight "refresh" (the Origin section especially) to really make it clearer that all the differing apperences, actions, and even origins are all part and parcel of how a mulitversal singularity works and not mistakes or continuity conflicts.

Didn't want to try to touch/alter such a potentially controversial article without feeling people out on the idea first though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

:Anyone have any real feelings on this one way or another? If no, I may attempt a clean up as discribed above in the near future. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 13:03, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::I'm inclined that it gets a "refresh", given the "stubborn refusals to under his nature". MUL-TI-VERSE, how hard is it to understand? Oy. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:39, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::What is this 'multiverse' of which you speak? Is that a breakfast cereal?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::::A wonderful porridge filled with all the vitamins and minerals (some necessary, some superfluous, and some bad for the waistline) for growing protoforms, from the same company that produces Garbage O's! :B --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:49, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

==Megatronous Prime==
Where the hell did the person who put The Fallen's real name as Megatronous Prime? Which comic or whatever included his real name did that person learn that?
:I believe it was mentioned in the [[Exodus: The Official History of the War for Cybertron|Exodus novel]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:32, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::I wonder if that's a reference to the Covenant of Primus... "I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come...and you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you!" Sounds like it could be about the Fallen to me. If that's the case, other Megatrons may have named themselves after him to show how hardcore they are. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:58, 30 June 2010 (EDT)

===Appearance===
Dark, Decepticon symbol face, did he look like Soundblaster? Considering that [[Soundblaster (Cybertron)|Soundblaster]] might or might not be one of the 13, feels like an odd coincidence. I guess we'll have to wait to find out if that actually means anything. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:43, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. He looked like this squat, ornately-carved boxy monstrosity whose whole body vaguely looked like a 'Con symbol, the face much moreso, with a big right-arm cannon. Hasbro said in a previous Q&A answer that we should not assume Logos Prime is one of the 13. I would not be surprised if that character never matters again. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:09, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Considering Logos Prime can alter his appearance at will, and that Soundblaster is only one of those forms, Logos Prime can basically be any of the other 13 that he wants. Hell, maybe he's the Fallen. </fanon> --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:36, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:::I put up this section hoping for it to turn out that way. I think I should maybe discuss this on a messageboard. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

==Megatronus vs Megatronus Prime==
When Hasbro did their Thirteen concept art presentation at BotCon, pre-The Fallen was just "Megatronus" rather than "Megatronus Prime". I assume this was intentional, as the only Thirteener to otherwise have "Prime" as part of his name in the line-up was Vector Prime. I don't know how this factoid should be incorporated, though. Just in Notes? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:07, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

== Life support chair ==

Where did this info come from? It wasn't clarified in the movie.--[[Special:Contributions/96.54.128.212|96.54.128.212]] 16:49, 23 December 2010 (EST)

== A little request ==

Can we have some notes to compare and contrast Fallen's tie-in IDW comics, game, and promo-render forms with the one presented in the final movie? Or at least, can someone explain to me here on this talk page? I know they're different...but I just can't put my finger on how (probably because of the drought of good full body screencaps of him in ROTF) and it's kind of bugged me for a while now. - [[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 11:09, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

Talk:The Fallen

2011-05-27T15:09:17Z

Tyrannolodon:

That bit about how the Fallen was created by Pat Lee? In the latest edition of Wayward's [http://www.insecticons.com/insecticomics.html Insecticomics] it is said that it was actually Furman who created the character, that Lee just did the design. When I asked her about it, she posted this [http://p206.ezboard.com/fthepaddedcell71381frm19.showMessage?topicID=2995.topic&index=107 transcript] which backs that up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 14:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

OK so I just left line in the trivia, cos I thought it was funny.
* So he's the henchman of a evil being, has mystical supernatural powers, is a badass and is on fire? Someone might want to file a law suit.

Can it stay or should I take it back down?[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

..I don't even get that. [[User:AlwaysWrong|AlwaysWrong]] 22:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)
:It was removed, it contained a link to the wikipedia article for Ghost Rider[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

==Head==
Anyone notice that his head is very Soundwave-y? When i first saw him, i clearly recognized his head as soundwave's with added badassery.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 05:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

==Disambig time?==
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=59522272-D56F-E112-4C783175A8BBBAD6

Ah-heh.

(SOMEBODY IN THAT MOVIE DAMN WELL BETTER BE ON FIRE.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

==Fallen, Bludgeon and Megs==

I don't know about Bludgeon, but there is a connection between the Fallen and Megs: IDW Megatron's Cybertronian body is based off of the Fallen, right down to the design of the Fusion Cannon. [[User:GWolfv2]] 21.07 June 11

== Defiance issue 4 Fallen's backstory ==

Defiance issue 4 is out. [http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/revenge-of-the-fallen-prequel-comic-defiance-4-provides-potential-movie-spoilers-167267/ TFW2005.com has posted all the Fallen-relevant spoilers from issue 4, but beware, if you're avoiding Defiance, this spoils the Fallen's crazy scheme in the movie]. The backstory for the Fallen seems fairly different to the Fallen we know. So are they still the same guy? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:56, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Still appears to be a member of the Thirteen, still appears to betray them, still apparently serves a force that devours planets/stars.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:12, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::But from what I understand of the "multiversal singularity" characters thing, there's just one Fallen, so the guy created by Primus who eventually serves Unicron is also a guy created by a Cube who serves nobody but himself and is building solar towers to replenish the Cube. Or is the currently-untold story of the 13 vague enough that this still works? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::It does seem pretty distinct. One's a "created by mighty power source, got selfish, betrayed his brothers, now want to kick off where things went wrong" other "created as a multiversal control for entrophy and warrior against Unicron. Switched sides. Most dangerous servant of the ultimate evil ever". [[User:Eire]] 21.21 Apr 8 2009 (UTC)
:I don't trust a 3rd party summary written by someone who may not fully understand the story to accurately represent what's actually in the story. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:44, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::In any case, I suspect we are probably going to need to wait to see what the movie itself has to say before making a decision on this. It may expand on what is presented in the comic, it may contradict it in some way, it could make it easier to tie this version in with the previous mythos or may firmly separate it, etc. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think we would have to wait until the movie if the comic is fairly clear on the matter. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::::I think we do, because as I said, we have no way of knowing in advance how well the actual movie will line up with the comic. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:05, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:The Fallen is one thing, but what about definite "multiversal singularity" Primus? Does the AllSpark=Primus in the movieverse? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::The AllSpark has been designated a [[sacred implement]] in Japanese fiction.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:07, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::It is not uncommon for Transformers to have no knowledge of Primus or Unicron. For every world where they have a full-blown religion to fill them in, you have one where the Transformers have neither heard of either-- remember in [[The Transformers: The Movie]] Hot Rod and Kup had never even heard Unicron's name before. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
Did they not mention that the Fallen calls himself and his other pals "trans-dimensional beings"? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:48, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Not the mention [http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2009-04-01-transformers-first-look_N.htm this interview] affirming he's the original and was "banished to another dimension." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
::I think what they mean by that is that he's stuck in that stupid pylon. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:15, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

==The Fallen gets Power Plans!==
[http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2009/05/transformers-movie-universe-preview.html] Preview page from the upcoming DK Ultimate Movie Guide, which is totally written by Furman. It establishes a few important things. The Fallen is an "omniversal tyrant." He betrayed his fellow Primes to serve the source of his new "chaotic" powers "from the very birth of the universe," forces which seek to replace morality with a "void." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:If Nimoy is cast as him, it will be the second time in his career that he'll be playing some sort of servant of Unicron. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

== Subject Seperation ==

Will you make a separate page the live action version of the Fallen? --Some Random User guy {{unsigned|69.230.53.229|00:50, May 20, 2009 EDT}}
:As we far as we know, the Fallen is a multi-dimensional being that can... you get the picture. If this Fallen is established as a seperate being, then maybe.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 01:01, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::And as seen in Walky's post above this, the DK guide establishes the Fallen as an "Omniversal tyrant". That more or less means the Fallen is one of those characters who can travel between dimensions, and there's only one of him. Thus, we consider ROTF Fallen to be the same guy as Dreamwave comics Fallen, unless the movie says otherwise (and it obviously won't). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::Despite the brain-bending problems this creates with the other 12, yes. Are they all birthed by the AllSpark then? That's not what The Ultimate Guide says... (We'll figure it out. Expect the backpedaling, qualifications and clarifications to begin trickling in this fall.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::You know, the movie universe could have two individuals named the Fallen. I mean, it's not a real name, but rather a sort of title, right? Why couldn't the omniversal tyrant and some douchebag that came from the AllSpark live in the same universe? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:26, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::'''Two''' dimension-hopping flaming ancient Primes who discarded their name in favor of being called "The Fallen" after betraying their 12 fellow Primes, the oldest of Transformers?
:::We already have the Covenant and the Thirteen. Don't make this ''more'' complicated. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:39, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I personally think they should be seperated. I mean, he's been trapped in that relic, or whatever it exactly is, for a really long time. How could he of shown up in the IDW series? And, the other 12 sacrificed themselves, so, how could they exist either? -[[User:VakamaMetruNui|VakamaMetruNui]] 09:29, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::::(The Dreamwave series, not the IDW series.) That's really easy to explain. The DW Fallen was also trapped in a dimension, same as the Movie one. He was able to break free of it due to a space bridge accident, and was apparently banished back to it by Primus. (He would have returned if DW hadn't gone bankrupt, so he wasn't dead.) Who knows how time and space work in there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:11, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Unicron keeps showing up in new places yet always gets defeated in more or less the same way; why should his gothy wanna-be have it any better? Since his "real" origin was as a creation of Primus, perhaps the entire Movie AllSpark / Movie Original 13 was something the Fallen himself put together later--he tried his own hand at being a god, while actually not claiming credit for it but just inserting himself among the lineup, like Keyser Soze. Or maybe he used his woowoo omniversal magic to sense that some other god was about to create the AllSpark, and then he twisted the whole process to his own ends. Who knows. And if all that sounds like a deus-ex-machina, remember that that is LITERALLY what he is. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:24, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
[[Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|right|thumb|100px|What dimension did this happen in? The movie-verse? Not necessarily.]]
::::::I think splitting the page of a known dimension-hopper goes against common sense. Without a really good reason, of course. I don't think there is a good reason yet. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:47, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::At BotCon 2009, Hasbro copy-writer Forest Lee stated once again (at the Collectors' Club panel) that the Original 13 are all multiversal singularities. Apparently the upcoming movie hasn't changed his mind! So let's hold on to our current setup for the time being. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:11, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::He didn't state this before, IIRC he stated that they were ''probably'' Multiversal singularities before.
::::::::Do you or anyone (Steve) have an exact working on his statement this weekend? It's worth citing it on the 13 page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:52, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::I don't, no. And Steve-o wasn't there this weekend, so we are without his meticulous information-gathering. He did specifically say that the original 13 were multiversal singularities, though. It was in response to someone asking if Shattered Glass The Fallen would be icy. Forest said that as one of the 13, The Fallen doesn't have any multiverse counterparts. There's just one of him, the same as Vector Prime and the others. (Trent noted that he liked to believe that if the Fallen were to ever wander into the Shattered universe, his flames would turn to ice, much to his confusion.)--[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:53, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
Is there evidence that supports ROTF Fallen is the same as the character in The War Within?--[[User:TOM|TOM]] 13:20, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
:Evidence in the form of fictional stories? No. Apparently not. It is all shadow evidence as far as I can tell. Word of mouth at conventions and [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|a Hasbro Q&A]]. Should the wiki hang its hat on such shadow evidence? Or would the "multiversal singularity" thing be better put in the "notes" section until it shows up in fiction? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:53, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
::If this Wiki wants to wait on merging Alpha Trions I suggest your side doesn't split the G1, UT, ROTF and Prime versions of Prima, Megatronus, Liege or Vector. And it wouldn't call it shadow evidence considering Megatronus explicitly described his brothers as able to traverse dimensions, or Vector and Nexus being the sole versions of those characters flying about the timelines. "[[Reunification: Part 5|All Cybertrons are yours.]]" [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 14:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie altmode ==

FYI: If we get Hasbro photography depicting a toy with an altmode (we have!) and the paragraph in question is describing that toy, then ''the presence of said altmode is officially confirmed''. I don't know under what logic you can say otherwise.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:10, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:Remember Scorponok's robot mode? I believe the debate is whether or not The Fallen's vehicle mode was something invented for the toyline. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
::Except the altmode description was removed from the toy section. The toy has an altmode. Plain as day. Thus the section describing that toy ought to mention said altmode.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:07, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Ah, right then. Well... most of what I said can be salvaged, assuming this argument comes up outside the toy section. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 21:14, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

== Decepticon symbol ==

I see there is a Decepticon symbol on The Fallen's page for a long while, is this something related to his toy(s)? Thanks. (I can't reach my Titanium Fallen now, so... ) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 11:24, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
: His ROTF toy packaging consistently labels him a Decepticon. He helped Megatron START the Decepticon faction in the live-action continuity. And the Decepticon faction symbol is based on his face. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:35, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:::So it is really due to the ROTF. Thanks. ;-D --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 12:55, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

::What they said.
::I notice the Beast-machines Dinobots symbol links to the Dinobots disambig page-- was it used tor the Wal-Mart Dinobots as well? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:56, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

==Mainpic==
When the Wikia site comes up on Google, it also has a secondary link, which is their version of this page. Our secondary link is [[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|''Animated'']], which is unfortunately now a bit less relevant than theirs. (Notably, they've even rebranded their site to have a Movie look.) Happily, our [[The Fallen]] is much better than theirs because we've expanded the DW section, and they still haven't written ANYTHING about the prequel comics. Plus, y'know, there's [[:Image:WikiaAdInsert_TheFallen.jpg|the stuff that made us leave in the first place]]. But in the interests of sealing the relevancy deal, I suggest we change the mainpic to be The Fallen's ROTF body. That way even at a GLANCE a viewer can see which one is more up-to-date. What do you all think? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:23, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:I support this. We've got good promo renders of it. Let's do it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me, I say go for it. Maybe change it back when the movie buzz fades down, but for now, yeah, totally. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:44, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Heh, so they merged the articles back. TX55 was an editor here. Doesn't he notice the borked layout of the images? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:00, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

===New main pic===
[[Image:ROTF The Fallen promotional 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|You dare photograph me?! I am a a Prime!]]
Swap the current one for a promotional shot from [[Josh Nizzi]]'s website? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 13:58, 21 July 2009 (EDT)
:Naw, I prefer the one we have now. Flashier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:12, 21 July 2009 (EDT)

==Grargh fiction==
Do we really need to separate out his various DK Ultimate Guide and Titanium information into their own little sections. Can't we throw those into the beginning of the Dreamwave continuity section and cite them appropriately? This page is now a real friggin' chore to read and understand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:58, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, it sorta feels like it's... out of order. Cause, it is. Fictionally. I mean, I grok what Jackpot has done - he's put it in publication order, which I know is an approach that he's generall favoured in the past, but to me, it just doesn't "read" right. (Also, I am totally about to ruin the "he is on fire" joke. Watch me go!) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:05, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
::I feel a little weird about combining them like that, but I don't full-on object. I don't think there's ever been precedent for putting toy-bio info into a comic-series summary, but in this case there was clearly intent behind the bio to make it mesh, and there are no variant ''War Within'' "continuities." All I can do is note that it's unorthodox and move along.
::Oh, and Walky, thanks for restoring the continuity-family headers. My theory is that since our default organizational model is to separate our articles based on continuity family, whenever we break that "rule," we should call it out.
::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:49, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

==Really not buying the 'multiversal singularity' thing here==
Recently, I saw the new movie and....... I don't see how it could possibly be the same character as in Dreamwave's comics.
Not only is his entire backstory different, but his motives also seem different and the film also makes mention that The Fallen was a member of 8 original leaders (if I remember correctly), as opposed to 13.
Not to mention his radically different appearance (the other 'multiversal singularities' at least all looked alike) and abilities.

Unless the writers find a way of explaining how this could be possible, I don't see how it makes any form of sense.
:The fact it's 8 and not 13 is the first sign that the writers ''intend'' to explain it. They're backpedaling away from making it "The 13" because it creates ''way'' to many problems.
:We all basically agree that it makes not sense now, but this ('''very''' last-minute) change strongly indicates that it ''will'' make sense, and that Hasbro's story-gurus has finally figured out how they intend to make it fit. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:33, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::I seriously doubt that Hasbro's story-gurus had any imput whatsoever on the contents of the movie itself. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:35, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, I think that rather than being The 'Multiversal Singularity' Fallen, The (ROTF) Fallen is just a 'fallen' Prime who is subsequently and coincidentally called "The Fallen". He happens to have the same name, like Prowl, Prowl, Prowl, Prowl and Prowl.[[Special:Contributions/218.214.49.189|218.214.49.189]] 21:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::That's nice, but Hasbro's packaging bio writer is saying that's not the case. Thus we have to go with what he says. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
So... Doesn't this mean that since he died in the movie, he has died in all universes forever, since he is a "multiversal singularity"?[[Special:Contributions/76.251.230.101|76.251.230.101]] 19:59, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:When a multiversal singularity "dies" in one universe, he'll reappear in another universe --[[Special:Contributions/72.64.107.124|72.64.107.124]] 20:02, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::I've seen that idea expressed on the Wiki before, but I've never seen a source for it. Basically... says who? In fact, most of what we "know" about multiversal singularities comes not from the fiction itself, but from creator comments. I don't agree with putting [[authorial intent]] on that high a pedestal, especially when its results are flat-out nonsensical. I think that at best, author-intent should get a Note, not define central aspects of how we describe characters. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:16, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Hear hear! Besides, saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not. Then we get a weird state of 'he's mostly a multiuniversal singularity, except where he isn't' situation. I think this sort of notion warrants about as much consideration as a Madman DVD book saying that Cyclonus categorically was Skywarp - we note it, then we go on with the rest of our lives. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:37, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::There's at least some indication that Mowry and Furman are going to attempt to reconcile the multiversal singularity thing, or at least hang a lampshade on it and run with it, in [[Tales of the Fallen]]. We may get our answer soon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 21:09, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::''saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not''
:::::Bingo. No matter how much people might like Forrest's ideas, it's just as much "authorial intent" whenever anybody else at Hasbro or IDW or Bay's workshop says something that contradicts him. We know he's multiversal, or "omniversal," whatever, because one of the movie guidebooks says so. I try not to think too hard about the "13-whoops-7-Primes" clusterfuck. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:48, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I think the idea of Multiversal Singularities dieing in one universe and appearing in another has 2 sources: 1) Unicron - He's a multiversal singularity and this is demonstrably how he works, and 2) Vector Prime - After his death in the UT he's seen again in the final credits battling Galvatron again. Granted it's supposition, but I think that's the basis for the idea.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 21:22, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Unicron's many deaths constitute one of the reasons why the multiversal-singularity idea is generally thought to be nonsensical. The idea that he "respawns" every time he's destroyed is a rationalization somebody here came up with; it's never been shown to ''happen'' in the fiction. And Vector Prime's case barely applies; he wasn't destroyed the way Unicron or The Fallen were; he just permanently phased outside of normal time because he overexerted his temporal powers. It was presumably in this non-time limbo that he battled Galvatron again, and where he will be forever. Ultimately, I think Rosicrucian's right: We should wait until "Tales of the Fallen" comes out before we make any hard-and-fast calls on the subject. But I've [[Talk:Unicron#"Respawning"?|long thought]] that we should be more rigorous about letting the fiction alone define "multiversal singularity" instead of the authors, and I'll be more than happy if future information radically changes what we think it means. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::The bio for TRU-excl. Universe Unicron says he travels through multiple dimensions and that whenever he dies he comes back to life. I don't think it says he has to be reobrn in a different dimension than the one he just died in, but honestly, once they've officialized and published the "multidimensionality and immortality" aspect, precisely where he is at ANY given moment in any life doesn't matter. But that's just Unicron--there's nothing as cut-and-dried in published form for the rest of them, I don't think. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:08, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::Ah, that's interesting. Let's [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2856639219_b4fb44b44e.jpg?v=0 take a look]... Hm, it actually sounds more like Vector Prime's existence than the hoppity-hop-from-universe-to-universe model that's been the wiki party line. Unicron "floats through the non-space between dimensions, reaching out with his sensors to find the universe with the most energy. Those dimensions he finds suitable, he consumes." Also, "He has been defeated or destroyed countless times, yet he always returns [...] for [...] He is evil incarnate, and as long as there is evil, there is Unicron." It sounds like, whereas Vector Prime is stuck outside of time and can only send messages (or swords) into the timestream, Unicron can actually manifest himself in a very real and devastating way. But they share some essential transcendent nature, which to me is a bit more sensical than the more linear model. I read it to mean that basically he can keep coming back because he's always got one foot outside of normal space-time, and destroying a specific incarnation will never be enough. It's not a full "death." Plus he's got that strange relation to the concept of evil, which is backed up in the ''Armada'' cartoon when only Galvatron's death and the resulting end of the war could destroy him. As you say, I don't know how this would apply to The Fallen or others, but one thing at a time... - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:06, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::It's not particularly relevant, but I just want to point out that Vector Prime ''did'' actually die, in the sense that his linear lifespan came to an end point. He continues to exist because ''prior'' to his death, he spent most of his existence outside of the timestream, and since time has no meaning there, he will ''always'' be there, watching and guiding. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:55, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

== Change of appearance ==

From TF; The Movie Universe
{{quote|The Fallen butchered and betrayed his brother Primes, disowning his given name in favor of one befitting his new, terrifying appearance.|[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]] p86|"The Fallen"}}
Late intot he game, we have the idea that The Fallen may have changed his appearance. (And since his appearance is really no different than the other Primes... it begs the question what the hell this is talking about.)

Oh, and Walky was wondering abotu the curiously-regular panes of transparent plastic on The Fallen toy's shoulders... accordign to the guidebook, he has "Energon Distribution arcs" in his shoulders-- I think they're actually supposed to represent some sort of energy blade. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:44, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Unreliable narrator ==

So I saw the ROTF film. It really doesn't clash with the Multiversal Singularity thing too bad... it's Defiance that's the real problem. And I'm beginning to think that Definace just had a ''serious'' case of "unreliable narrator."

Let's assume (for a moment) that the Fallen ''was'' lying about parts of his backstory to Megatron. He certainly didn't mention Primus or Unicron (so we know he left stuff out) and we know he was snowing Megatron about making him a Prime (something you apparently have to be born to in the Movieverse.) He's ALREADY demonstrably lying, so lets throw out everything he said about his own origins, and assume he's actually the same dimension-hopping spanish-speaking nutjob we know and love-- what would the universe 'look' like?

Logically, The Fallen {{redact|''traveled'' to this universe and integrated himself with it-- somehow convincing the six Founding Primes of the universe that he was one of them. He then secretly endeavored to murder them all, destroy the Earth and seize ultimate power for himself using the sun harvester.}}

Of course, if this was '''actually''' what happened, and The Fallen is lying... you'd expect there to be some ''indicator['' of this in the IDW comics.

[[Image:Ros03 cuberitual.png|thumb|250px]]
Oh hey, look at that! It's the ancient illustration Starscream was trying to replicate in "Reign of Starscream"! The ''only'' piece of evidence from the era of the original Primes that ''doesn't'' come from our Unreliable Narrator. And what does it show?
{{redact|'''Six''' Primes surrounding the AllSpark cube as it is renewed by the Sun Harvester. '''Not''' seven.}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:55, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:As much as I really want to make this all work, I don't know if I want to go the Unreliable Narrator route. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:18, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::Neither do I... but if IDW chooses to quietly change the 13 primes to the 7 in their Movie Spotlight books... at ''that'' point the Fallen's retelling of history becomes much more actively wrong, and this bit from Reign of Starscream fits quite nicely.
::I figured it was worth highlighting as a possibility. It wouldn't be appropriate to present it as "fact" until IDW gets a crack at it. (It seems almost inevitable that there are Retcons Comings.) But i was pleased to discover that there's at least one ''fairly'' clean way here to make things more-or-less fit, and it ties into some pre-established continuity arond Starscream's plan with the [[Replica AllSpark]], which is a definite plus in terms of making the change less jarring. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:27, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Your way probably works better than my "the other 6 Primes were busy." But still, that's fanon until Forest Lee gets a crack at it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:31, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::...That leaves me a little worried that we're putting our hopes on IDW. Especially since they caused quite a few of the problems. And lets not even get into their record of continuity consistency in okaying [[All Hail Megatron]]. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:34, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::But '''nothing''' the movies is 100% consistent with one another. Did you notice Leo mentioned the big fight from the 2007 movie took place in '''L.A.'''? And the IDW comics aren't in continuity with the ''first'' movie in a strict sense either-- Reign of starscream dedicated a page to re-doing the "gathering of the 'cons" from the dfirst movie ''just'' so they could assert "no, he's called BRAWL damnit." Or the helicopter being shot down over <strike>Afganistan</strike> America.
:::::Frankly, I think think the wiki would be best off is we weaned ourselves of this tendency to present the IDW comics as somehow "the primary continuity." They're definitely bound up tightly with the movies... but they ''aren't'' in perfect continuity with them-- and it's not just oddities, it's outright deliberate contradiction, like the Brawl thing. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Until I get an official reasoning to change continuity flow of various fiction, I'd rather leave the articles as they are. Brawl thing - who cares, really? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:36, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::By which you mean "structured differently than every other fiction section on the wiki." ;)
:::::::(I'm not really pushing for the restructure either. Just talking in general terms.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:54, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I'm set in my ways, dagnabbit. Yeah, the movie kind of started the movement of supporting fiction such as comic books and novels more or less directly being in continuity with the primary fiction, something we saw later in Animated. As opposed to the traditional TF method of having comics and cartoons and books all going in completely different directions. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:26, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

::::You've got it backwards. The Mowry-penned stuff has some of the best internal consistency of the entire continuity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Right, Mowry was foreshadowing the RotF plot in the second issue of Reign of Starscream, before ''anything'' had leaked. And he seems to have a pretty clear idea where almost ''every'' character "was" before and after the war, how they're related to one another, etc. He also did a ''lot'' of ground work to make the game drones fit right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

== Voyager toy ==

The Voyager toy has slidable gauntlets, shinguards, and some kind of firey thing under the shinguards, but none of these are called out in the instructions, or seem to serve any point in either mode. Should this be mentioned in the article, and if not, does anyone know what the deal with them is?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 20:50, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

== "saturn"? ==

Especially because the novel specifically says it's not Saturn, can we get rid of this? Unless it was revealed in an interview or on a toy bio or something, all the movie shows is that it's on the moon of a ringed planet - without specifically identifying it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:22, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:I think it has to be Saturn unless it is a plot hole. Megatron just flies there in about a day or so. It has to be in the solar system, I think. Megatron was never shown to have a personal space bridge like Jetfire. Can Megatron travel faster-than-light? Possibly, but the space bridge seems to be this universe's faster-than-light technology. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:57, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::I recall seeing something about how Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but that he's supposed to be one of the few Transformers who can. Additionally, we see the Decepticons travel to Earth in transition form, implying that they are coming from somewhere in the solar system. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:59, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but in a day or two? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:02, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::And return with Starscream and Grindor? And have The Fallen and a buttload of new Hatchlings arrive not soon after? They can't be lightyears away. That'd basically be Yet Another Plothole. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:09, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::According to the Ultimate Guide, The Fallen actually can do something like a space bridge, so wouldn't it be possible for the Fallen to have brought them to the final battle? Unless the Fallen can only do personal transport.
:::::For Grindor, though, do we know he was actually on the Nemesis?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:47, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::I thought someone might suggest that about The Fallen, so I didn't argue that point. I think that if he has the ability to space bridge armies across interstellar distances I would wonder why he would need the Nemesis at all. Starscream also made it to the Nemesis but he had a little longer, he could have hailed a space taxi or something. I think the movie strongly implies the Decepticons traveled by protoform from a relatively short distance and landed on the aircraft carriers. Even The Fallen. He seems to have traveled by protoform. Maybe space bridging long distances uses too much energy? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:13, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::"Saturn" appears to have a nebula in the background in the movie.
:::::::Which means that unless you can provide a cite for it being Saturn, it's not Saturn. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 July 2009 (EDT)

==Power of a Prime?==
Why is that important? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 20:15, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why is pointing out the differences between the film itself and its adaptations important? Is that what you're asking? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:19, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why IS information about a Transformer in a Transfomers wiki important, I wonder? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:50, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:The novel and comics are similar enough to the movie that they don't merit their own sections on the page, so the few significant differences that DO crop up need to go SOMEWHERE. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:53, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

==Main Pic==

Since the standard practice to to have the main image use the body the character first appeared in, rather than their most recent or more well known, shouldn't the main pic here be his Dreamwave body? [[User:Eire]] 23.45 18 Aug 09 (UTC)
:In this case it was changed so that movie visitors wouldn't reach the page and go "who the hell is this guy?" as well as to visually distinguish our article from Wikia's.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 19:25, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

==Leader Class==

I found a clip on Youtube about a Leader class The Fallen toy. It's extremely close to the CGI version in design and look and it comes with a staff. I think it's a fanmade one, but it's definitely worth noticing. I have proof. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q142a9Fl9_c]--[[User:Cydra|Cydra]] 09:49, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, that's a custom by FrenzyRumble. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:51, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

== Image:Vectorprimeut.jpg ==

OK, who put that there? The Fallen isn't even on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:07, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
: Read the caption and come back to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:09, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::I just wasted two seconds on reading a caption which I have already memorized, and another ten on checking the image again. The Fallen is NOT on the image. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:19, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
:::...yes he is. See the guy behind Vector Prime? His silhouette matches The Fallen's. Pay special attention to the little spikey hangy-things on his crotch, plus the shape of his head. And don't talk to ME about wasting time. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:21, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::::My bad. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:26, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

== Unable to edit ==
I noticed that I am unable to edit The Fallen page why is that. Also I thing the sarcophagus should have its own link and that it should be edited to make it more appropiate. --[[User:Naruotfox94|Narutofox94]] 10:04, 14 November 2009

== Lawson Exclusive EZ Fallen??? ==

Just noticed the pic of the 'Lawson exclusive' EZ figure.

Apparently the version of EZ Fallen released in the 2-pack with Soundwave was actually the standard US version, and the Takara-Tomy picture was incorrect. Unless anyone has an official source (in-hand pictures, on-line sales listings etc) that says the Japanese version of the Legends figure is any different from the US colours, I'd recommend deleting this photo. [[Special:Contributions/213.123.203.109|213.123.203.109]] 09:03, 1 December 2009 (EST)
:... that doesn't make any sense. If we don't have any in-hand photos, how do we know it's the SAME as the US release? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 10:10, 1 December 2009 (EST)
::So what you're saying is that we have this exclusive Legends Fallen, now released in Japan. You'd think it might show up ''somewhere''? But there's not a squeak of it on YouTube, on eBay, or for that matter ANY Transformers retailer or website you can care to name (trust me, I've checked). I realise it's supposedly an exclusive, but I can't think of another occasion in all my years of collecting when a figure's been commercially released and yet NO-ONE has seen it. As I say, I think it's just a bad photograph.

::Also, note that the two supposed 'exclusives' in this Lawson offer were Mudflap and The Fallen... which haven't actually been released in Japan as part of the main EZ line (nor have they been announced as forthcoming). So it would make sense that these are the standard US versions, which were Lawson store exclusives in Japan. Just like how ROTF Deluxes Dead End, Swerve and Stalker Scorponok were on general sale in the US but store exclusives in Japan.

::I seem to recall pictures of Takara Deluxe Ravage and Voyager Mixmaster with different paint apps too (extra purple on Ravage and a different coloured head on Mixmaster) - yet both releases ended up the same as their US counterparts. Early photos of the Takara combiner Devastator (shown in Hyber Hobby and Dengeki Hobby) has the US grey face that was later changed to red in Japan. We now know that the Deluxe red Rampage has a movie-accurate silver shovel, not the red one we saw in the early pictures. My point here is that promotional photos are notoriously unreliable.

::I realise I'm on shaky ground here - It's very difficult to prove something ''doesn't'' exist. But I think at the very least the point should be made on the page that this so-called redeco has never - to anyone's knowledge - been sighted outside of a low-res photo on the Takara website. And possibly never will.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 13:55, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::This strikes me as a question that would easily be resolved if we had actual contact with the Japanese fanbase.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 7 December 2009 (EST)
::::OK, after a bit of research, I've discovered that the US and Japanese versions of these legends are IDENTICAL. There are pictures on TFW2005 (I think you need to be a member to sign into the forums) [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-toy-discussion/281376-rotf-takara-v-hasbro-comparisons.html] So this page ''does'' need to be changed, as does Mudflap's.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 17:20, 7 December 2009 (EST)

== Page Quote ==

To be fair... whether or not it should be changed to LesterX's idea, the current quote does suck. It says pretty much zero about the Fallen's personality or motivation or purpose or anything. All it says is that he's from some past time period, which is true of every 13 member. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:21, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:I never was crazy about it but it does do a good job of summing up a pretty major aspect of the character. I'm gonna go through all his comic appearances and have a look for a better one (can't think of one from the movie) [[User:Eire]] 00.00 Jan 08 2009 (UTC)
::Change the top quote all you want, but "kali ma" is so not going away for another damn "Give me your face" joke. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:05, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:::No argument from me on ''that'' regard. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:14, 7 January 2010 (EST)

==Separate==
I recommend that this page be split into two different pages, as the backgrounds differ. (I would type in a label, but the thing won't let me) [[User:Cold Rod|Cold Rod]] 16:23, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
: I recommend you learn what [[multiversal singularity]] means. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:38, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
::Of which the movie version is not. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:41, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::I would like to laugh at this, because do you see that big pile of text on [[multiversal singularity]]? That was taken from a Hasbro response ABOUT SPECIFICALLY MOVIE THE FALLEN. The original question was "If The Fallen is a multiversal singularity, how can we reconcile these various different movie-originated versions of him, like in the novelization and childrens storybooks?" And then we got that answer. So to say that the answer does not pertain to movie The Fallen betrays a monumental ignorance of the subject at hand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:11, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::Prove it. According to Hasbro multiversal singularities can have different backgrounds in different universes and still be the SAME character. Confusing, but true. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::So they look exactly the same then? they have the same background? [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:56, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::Somebody sign this guy up for a course in logic. Or at least ENGLISH. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::Seriously, read the [[multiversal singularity]] page. Specifically "multiversal dynamics". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:00, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::You said '''can''', not '''do'''. There's a difference. '''Can''' means possibly. '''Do''' means certainly. It doesn't prove their one and the same. The one bathed in fire isn't a Decepticon. In addition, Teletraan 1 (the other wiki) split theirs. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 13:05, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Then go annoy them and leave us alone. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:08, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Besides, the other wiki is pretty much abandoned by this community. They're now almost independent. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Hasbro said they were the same character. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:09, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yes, can. The Fallen has different backgrounds in different universes, but is still a singularity. Other singularities have the same background in different universes. Thus, singularities CAN have different backgrounds. Also, what Teletraan 1 does is not an argument that will go over well here. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:10, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::To cut a long story short, we're treating them as the same because Hasbro writer [[Forest Lee]], who's basically responsible for all the multiversal singularity stuff, ''says they are'', and has offered an explanation for how that works. And yes, kindly refrain from holding up ''anything'' Teletraan-1 does as a basis for how we should do things. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:22, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::I thank the other wiki a billion times for separating their Fallen pages, because Google sure likes our page way better now! (and that was fairly immediate) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:07, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Google still prefers Wikia if you add "Transformers" to your search terms for "The Fallen", at least from what I can tell. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:18, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

== Multiversal Clean Up ==

Some people's stubborn refusals to understand his nature aside, I think the article as written right now might contain a few too many "artifacts" from when we were still rather unsure of the Fallen's Multiversal Singularity status and how it worked. The "Origin" section for instance seems to exist entirely to present his differing origins as being a conflict while not mentioning at all that Hasbro's explanation on how singularities work explains any conflict away.

I think the page could use a slight "refresh" (the Origin section especially) to really make it clearer that all the differing apperences, actions, and even origins are all part and parcel of how a mulitversal singularity works and not mistakes or continuity conflicts.

Didn't want to try to touch/alter such a potentially controversial article without feeling people out on the idea first though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

:Anyone have any real feelings on this one way or another? If no, I may attempt a clean up as discribed above in the near future. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 13:03, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::I'm inclined that it gets a "refresh", given the "stubborn refusals to under his nature". MUL-TI-VERSE, how hard is it to understand? Oy. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:39, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::What is this 'multiverse' of which you speak? Is that a breakfast cereal?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::::A wonderful porridge filled with all the vitamins and minerals (some necessary, some superfluous, and some bad for the waistline) for growing protoforms, from the same company that produces Garbage O's! :B --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:49, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

==Megatronous Prime==
Where the hell did the person who put The Fallen's real name as Megatronous Prime? Which comic or whatever included his real name did that person learn that?
:I believe it was mentioned in the [[Exodus: The Official History of the War for Cybertron|Exodus novel]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:32, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::I wonder if that's a reference to the Covenant of Primus... "I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come...and you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you!" Sounds like it could be about the Fallen to me. If that's the case, other Megatrons may have named themselves after him to show how hardcore they are. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:58, 30 June 2010 (EDT)

===Appearance===
Dark, Decepticon symbol face, did he look like Soundblaster? Considering that [[Soundblaster (Cybertron)|Soundblaster]] might or might not be one of the 13, feels like an odd coincidence. I guess we'll have to wait to find out if that actually means anything. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:43, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. He looked like this squat, ornately-carved boxy monstrosity whose whole body vaguely looked like a 'Con symbol, the face much moreso, with a big right-arm cannon. Hasbro said in a previous Q&A answer that we should not assume Logos Prime is one of the 13. I would not be surprised if that character never matters again. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:09, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Considering Logos Prime can alter his appearance at will, and that Soundblaster is only one of those forms, Logos Prime can basically be any of the other 13 that he wants. Hell, maybe he's the Fallen. </fanon> --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:36, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:::I put up this section hoping for it to turn out that way. I think I should maybe discuss this on a messageboard. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

==Megatronus vs Megatronus Prime==
When Hasbro did their Thirteen concept art presentation at BotCon, pre-The Fallen was just "Megatronus" rather than "Megatronus Prime". I assume this was intentional, as the only Thirteener to otherwise have "Prime" as part of his name in the line-up was Vector Prime. I don't know how this factoid should be incorporated, though. Just in Notes? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:07, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

== Life support chair ==

Where did this info come from? It wasn't clarified in the movie.--[[Special:Contributions/96.54.128.212|96.54.128.212]] 16:49, 23 December 2010 (EST)

== A little request ==

Can we have some notes to explain how the Fallen's IDW comics, games, and promo-render forms differ from the one presented in the final movie? Or at least, can someone explain to me here on this talk page? I know they're different...but I just can't put my finger on how (probably because of the drought of good full body screencaps of him in ROTF) and it's kind of bugged me for a while now. - [[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 11:09, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Dynasty of Primes

2011-05-27T14:58:56Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Older than the Universe? */

... what on earth? Half the stuff in the "Revenge of the Fallen" section doesn't agree with the film version of the events, which are more-or-less chronicled at [[Tomb of the Primes]]. There couldn't have been a lone Prime who hid the Matrix in the Tomb of the Primes when we were shown a group of Primes melding their bodies into slag to MAKE the Tomb of the Primes to hide in the Matrix in the FIRST place. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 03:26, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:The info I got was from the novelization. If I was wrong, please correct. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 13:28, 27 June 2009 (EDT)

==sol = sun?==
: Do they meen Sun with sol? because if they do meen the sun, ''the sun does not circle the earth''.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 15:14, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

== Merge proposal ==

So where would the combined page go? And how do we reconcile the differences between the movie and the adaptations? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 14:22, 25 July 2009 (EDT)
:I think it should move to "Prime (ROTF)" so we can describe what a Prime is without starting off with a bias toward one medium or another. And we wouldn't reconcile anything, just describe what a Prime is in the movie and adaptations and leave it all unreconciled like the actual fiction is unreconciled. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:41, 25 July 2009 (EDT)
::I still disagree with the need for a parenthetical. The term "Dynasty of Primes" encompasses every last Prime in the movie continuity. If we're going to merge, go with the official term that is the most inclusive.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:25, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

== Name for one of them ==

When Sam starts babbling Cybertronian knowledge in Astronomy class, one of the things that can be heard is "Sentinel Prime expedition." So it's possible one of them was named Sentinel Prime. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 21:20, 28 July 2009 (EDT)
:I'm not sure if it was Sentinel. Some of them are probably named things like Prima , Liege Maximo; after the Thirteen basically, except there was just seven instead. [[User:CH|CH]] 12:58, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
::The adaptations confirm it was Sentinel.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:49, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
:::Any one in particular, just so we can source it and head-off confusion? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:14, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
::::Both the novelization and issue two of the comic. Also, it just mentions "Sentinel Prime". For all we know, he isn't one of the original founders, and may just be a descendant like Optimus. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 14:16, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Actually, he says it in the film as well. During the ramble the words Sentinel Prime are very clear, saying he proved something about the other dimensions, something scientific like that. We don't know if he's one of the original 7 or a descendant, but his existence is confirmed [[User:Eire]] 19.56 Oct 12 09 (UTC)
::::::He says "the Sentinel Prime Expidition." It could be the name of the expedition, like "The Ark Expidition." And regardless we have no proof that this name refers to one of the 12/7 even if it does refer to an individual. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:40, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

== Mark of the Primes... ==

That funky little symbol at the beginning of the article--I think it's on the left side of movie!Optimus' forehead area, but sometimes it seems to be there and sometimes it isn't! Is this some kind of animation/rendering error? [[User:CH|CH]] 03:45, 12 October 2009 (EDT) (I finally figured out the tildes! Doy!)

== Difference with the adaptations ==

I only saw the movie once, after reading the adaptations (I was trying to enjoy the film and not looking for differences) but I don't think the stories are all that different. There is the number of Primes and how many are alive when they make the tomb. Anything else? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:01, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:Sometimes described as 12 prime initially, sometimes described as 13. If you start to get into the kids adaptions... the phrasing REALLY reads like the survivors ''except one'' sealed themselves in a tomb, and the last one returned to Cybertron and either begat or ''is'' Optimus Prime with his memory wiped. Or there was onyl one survivor who forged the tomb out of the parts of his fallen brothers...
:You could dismiss the phrasing as bad, and not really indicating something different... but the story demonstrably ''is'' different in different c0ontinuities (number of Primes) so I'm reluctant to do so... I think the books do just say what they say. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:12, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
::I didn't know that in the kids' adaptation one of the original Primes may have survived. That would have actually made ''a little'' more sense. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:27, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

*[[The Last Prime]]
**AllSpark created 13 Primes
**Primes created the Matrix of Leadership (from the Allspark, other acaptions are clearer.)
**"They hd one rule: No sun would be destroyed if it gave life to the worlds around it. Earth was one -planet the Transformers explored for Energy. But early humans were starting to walk the Earth, and the one rule was invoked. One of the Primes, known as The Fallen, did not follow this rule. Because he wanted the Matrix for hismelf, The Falled waged war on his 12 brothers." (Other books make a mess of this and disagree... but this simmary make the opening scene 17k years ago make the most SENSE, IMO. They surveyed Earth, thought it had no sentient life, and were ''well into'' the building process when that hunting party of humans arived and encountered The Fallen. This his anger at them-- and his decision to scare them off so he could cover it up and continue working would be his act of betrayal-- a moral failing. This doesn't fit with other media, which've imposed other somewhat jumbled contexts or meanings on the scene... but it feels the most 'right,' and I bet if you asked Orci he'd say that that's what it was ''supposed'' to be.)
**12 Primes sealed themselves in a tomb.
**The Fallen waits "hovering in space."
**Optimus is the last Prime. (Don't ask me to explain how that works is the Allspark only created 13, and 12 are in a tomb and the other is The Fallen.)
**The face of the Fallen is projected from a triangle in the floor of the crashed ship.
**Jetfire changed sides in the war between the Decepticons and the Autobots long ago.
**Jetfire says "Only a Prime can defeat him. Only one survives, forever unaware of his destiny." (So Jetfire knows of Uptimus specifically? And he knows he's ignorant of his own origins which are...? I know, it makes no sense.)
**The Primes in the Infinite White are called 'skeletons.' (I remember the ROTF novel also called them 'endoskeletons'... do it doesnt' seem to just be a 'look' the original 13 had... they actually ''are'' Transformer skeletons, with none of the armor a Transformer normally has.)
**First ghost/skeleton: "We are the Dynasty of the Primes." (Wait... they called ''themselves'' that? As a formal term for their group?)
**Optimus is "our descendant." Our is collective, he's the sescendant of the Primes as a whole. (How literal to take that...?)
**Like in the ROTF novelization, only 6 primes actually speak.
**Jetfire tells Optimus that as the last of the Primes he possesses powers beyond his own imagining. (No I don't know what that means... but the movie seems to have a vague notion that Primes have some intrinsically special quality to them that it wanted to articulate, but failed in the scramble to corall the script disaster. It might be related to Prime's ability to take Jetfire's parts or absorb his energy, or might not. The movie dials this back signifigantly, jetfire says his parts will give Prime great power-- ditchign any idea of this somehow being intrinsic to his status as a Prime.)
**Optimus says the Fallen killed his 'brothers', who are his ancestry. (The movie ditches this, and has The Fallen scream at Optimus "Die like your brothers!")
**Prime tells Megatron that The Fallen's promise to make him into a Prime was a lie because Prime's a born, not made. (Totally undercutting the moral of Sam's arc in the movie, where he is told that a hero is something you choose to become, not something you already are... hilariously he's told this by the Ghost Primes as a piece of great universal wisdom. Don't look too deeply into this... I think the reason the line got cut from the movie was because the producers were aware of the moral dissonance and didn't want to highlight it.)
**The Fallen opens a wormhole to escape, but is pulled back by Optimus using Animated-style grapple-lines. Megatron escapes through the wormhole before it closes instead. (This shows up in a dople adaptions-- I think Bay toywed with a couple different ideas of the final fight. Megatorn escapign this way was PROBABLY ditched because when it came tiem to do the effects they had the Fallen teleporting in flashes, not stepping through flaming portals as originally envisioned.)
**Prime stabs The Fallen through the skull with a piece of the machine.

*[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel]] notes
**The hunters encounter The Fallen. The workers in the canyon are ''not'' his fellow Primes (there are dozens of them) and the alien's angular, crowned face was the symbold of a group of Transformers known as the Decepticons." (This suggests that Earth was ''always'' somehow an "off the books" operation, with the Fallen building the harvester there as part of his byzantine never-properly-explained plot to steal the Matrix of Leadership. Fits better with the IDW comics... but those are due for a retconnign any day now, and it doesnt' explain the Fallen's explicitly-stated hatred of humans, which even jetfire mentions, while the version in The Last Prime does.)
**Ravage and The Doctor revive Megatron with no Constructicons.
**The ship on the ice world (which has a Crimons Atmosphere) is explicitly named to be the Nemesis.
**the pods are "sarcophagi," cryogenic containment vaults. (Stasis pods, basically.)
**Starscream says the Nemesis contains The Fallen's long-lost army, which fled Cybertron and crashed in 15 sarcophagi. (13 in the adult novel.) (Since none of the vaults are open at this point, it means that the Transformers already seen on Earth up to this point are '''not'' them.)
**The Fallens' face is formed by thousands of metal pins that rise up out of the floor.
**"While I assemble forces in other dimensions..." (What forces? You bring YOURSELF. That's it. And if you can freely jump between dimensions, why were you using Megatron as a catspaw all this time?)
**Megatron opens all 15 sarcophagi and heads for Earth. (Ditched in the movie, obviously, by making them gestation pogs which needed Energy. The comic adaption had a scene at the end where Megatron returned to the Nemesis at the '''end of the film''' to open all the vaults, freeing this epic ancient army as a stinger for a 3rd film.)
***Really the whole Nemesis plot seems to be aborted in the final movie... there was some idea that Megatron would get his warriors-- probably Devastator from it... but by the time they broke the script, they realized that they needed to have the Constructions on Earth earlier... so the idea shifted to being "a group of legendary warriors sealed in boxes you ''can't'' open" to drive the plot forward-- they were heading to Earth to get the power (?) to awaken these guys... but that just made them an obnoxious unfired Chokov's gun straddling the plot. (The "locked Sarcophagi" version of the script is clearly where The Fallen's imprisonment in the IDW comics comes from.)
***So they get turned into gestating hatchlings who they needed power to quicken... and we're given every reason ''not'' to expect to see again in the film, "''please ignore how this makes the Decepticons somewhat sympathetic characters trying to birth their young''" "''Please also ignore how Starscream explicitly says he started these things with The Fallen since 2007... despite the fact 'the only source of Transformer life' being destroyed is a plot point in this movie.''" So to make ''that'' work, The Fallen is no longer imprisoned and... it's just a horrible mish-mash of a scene that accomplishes ''nothing'' it was originally supposed to and plays hob with the film's internal timeline... but which had to be there because they needed to get everyone in a room together to explain shit.
***Which didn't work ''anyway'', because the script got so away from the screenwriters that Soundwave never scanned an Earth mode-- or even showed up in robot mode! There's a '''reason''' Hasbro released a '''Gathering at Nemesis''' giftset ostensibly about a meeting between Megatron, The Fallen and Soundwave... the expectation seems to have been that as the script got hammered into place they'd all actually ''be'' there on the Nemesis to compare notes and make fun of Starscream together. But like a '''lot''' of stuff in the movie, that plotline "got away from 'em" as they desperately scrambled to get other stuff 'working' with only half as many drafts as the previous movie. (Due to the writers strike.) As a result, Soundwave is essentially a non-character. He was supposed to be '''awesome'''.
**Alice is an android, TV comercial, etc.
**The Doctor is killed by a sniper with a laser scope. (This was in "The Last Prime" too... why wasn't it in the movie? it sounds like an awesome hilarious moment, because the red dot appearing and puzzlignt he doctor is our first clue rescue is imminent.)
** The Decepticon that grabs Ron and Judy is explicitly said to be one of the ones from The Nemesis. (Remember, no Constructicons when reviving Megatron, so except for the shoverl at the beginning, they all arrived from space after Megatron awoke them. This makes ''sense'' in the book!)
** Sam calls The Doctor a crab-bot. (relevant to an old discussion about the Doctor.)
** The seekers were stranded or stuck on Earth for thousands of years. ("The Last Prime" said the same thing.)
**Jetfire has been scouring Earth for 2000 years. (Yes, I know the timeline makes no goddamn sense at all. Fuck you too. I think Orci just wrote dates in the script and figured they'd make 'em make sense later. Notice in the final movie that avoid ''all'' such date-time references except 17,000 years ago, dodging the problem.)
**Jetfire's "Transdimensional land bridge" is "post-Dynastic" technology (preferring to a time era) that was discontinued in later models due to a tendency to occasional catastrophic failure. It's powered or tied directly into his spark, which pulses powerfuly as he uses it. (As I follow this... it means jetfire was not/could not have been one of the combatants in the original war in Egypt 17,000 years ago... but instead dates from the period on Cybertron AFTER the 12 primes were all killed... the Post-Dynastic period. ...how or why they were all scouring Earth for the Matrix of Leadership...? Who knows. And a start dats of 2000 years makes absolute '''anti-sense''', since Megatron landed on Earth 10,000 years ago. The post-Dynastic period '''has''' to have been prior to that. Ignore it.)
**Jetfire says The Fallen sent him (and presumably the rest of the Seekers) to Earth. (What. The. Hell?! But-- that just raises even MORE questions! Note how ALL these crappy half-formed backstory and dates were CUT from the final movie because they made no damn sense? Treat them like what they are-- placeholders. If the dates or backstory make no sense and aren't affirmed by something that came out AFTER the movie did... ignore them.)
**The Allspark forged the Matrix, not the Primes. (IIRC the adult nodalization splits the difference, the Primes used the Allspark to forge the Matrix. That makes good sense.)
**The Fallen has a specific and unexplained hatred of organic life that caused him to specifically choose Earth, so that he could wipe out some life when the sun-harvester went active.
**The Fallen deactivated the other Primes, one after another. One escaped and took the matrix sealing it and himself in a tomb on Earth.
**'''"Only a Prime can defeat The Fallen," Jetifre replied. "That is why he returned to Cybestron to wage war. He deactivated all direct descendants of the Prime Dynasty, except for one who was hidden away. An orphan-- forever unaware of his destiny."''' (Okay... '''that''' makes sense. And it jibes with the IDW comics. You had a set of original Primes... but they also pro-created and has literal descendants they left back on Cybertron. For whatever reason, Optimus got lost in the shuffle and was unaware he was part of that bloodline, thus he was spared the purge when The Fallen returned to Cybertron. It fits ''terribly'' with the actual events of [[Defiance]], since Megatorn started the war and there were no other Primes to purge... but in broad terms... this it as least ''close'' to what must have happened-- it actually makes '''sense''' unlike the other contradictory mumbled vagueness you find in many sources that draw on early scripts that didn't quite make sense.)
**With the sun-harvester abandoned, human civilization sprang up around it, presumably worshiping it as a temple or relic of the gods. (It's basically implied that this, not the Nile, was the true impetus for humans to give up a nomadic existance and start building a civilization.) In time they are buried by natural and manmade accumulation.
**Epps and Lennox's wives.
**Instead of the twins fighting, Leo and Simmons have an argument and leo throws a pottery shart at him-- which cracks the mural and reveals... etc.
**The Twins regognize Devastator and call him by name. (Wait... I thought these robots came out of 15 ancient sarcophagai not opened since the time The Fallen brought war to Cybertron...?)
**No helicopter crash where they steal radios from the survivors... Simmons is just a paranoid who owns a EMP hardedned cell phone that can double as a radio. Bless his paranoid little soul!
**In his NDE, sam finds himself "Someplace empty, and white, and infinite." Okay-- I've been referring to the ghostly zone where Sam encounters the Primes as "Infinite White" for awhile now... that's the title of Jablonsky's [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOemc9C_qKc instrumental track] for that scene, and the exact same phrase is being echoed here. At '''some''' point in the scripting or production process, that "location" received the ''name'' [[infinite white]]. With two points of triangulation for an ''extremely'' specific phrase, I'm 'calling' it. "Infinite White" is an ''official'' designation for that 'place.' Whether it's an in-universe designation...? Probably not, Movieverse TF's dont' seem to have much in the way or religion or theology, and there's been no mention of a concept of an afterlife. So-- an official internal term. '''Good''', now we have something to call it. (I'm happy, if I hadn't re-read this to make these notes I'd never have noticed that.)
**There are '''11''' Primes in the Infinite White-- which means The Fallen was #12. (He was #13 in The Last Prime.)
**"Slowly the vast, infinite white receded, and Sam realized..." slightly more than 1 page after the first usage. It was '''so''' called that in the script!
**The Fallen's "telekinetic" displays are said to be accomplished using invisible force fields.
**Jetfire tells him he's the last of the Primeas as as such posessed power blah blah blah... (Ignore it, for all the reasons I growled about for "The Last Prime." It's an unformed concept that was wisely removed from the finished movie because it never gelled.)
**Jetfire thumped into a "deep sleep." (As with the 2007 movie, the censorship is inconsistent. This book mentioned lifeboats for the sinking aircraft carrier too. But "The Last Prime" aimed at an even YOUNGEr audience has Megatron threatening to torture and kill Sam!)
**Devastator gets railgun'd just as Prime is flying intot he pyramid, clearing the way for him.
**The machine is called the "sun harvester."
**Prime rams the top of the machine as it's firing, causing its beam to disochet down into the inside of the pyramid where Megatron, Starscream and The Fallen are standing, burning them. (In the movie Prime just lobs a missile on his way in-- the Sun harvester is essentially a ''null'' threat.)
**The Fallen uses his forcefields to ''bend gravity''. (Gravitional lensing maybe? I guess gravity manipulation makes more sense than focefields used to imitate telekinesis... when he was throwing stuff around it LOOKED more like gravitational manipulation.)
** Optimus Prime (apparently bolstered by Jetfire's power?) manifests his own shimmering forcefield that blocks the Fallen's effects. (...see, now that actually makes '''perfect sense'''. If Primes can inherently manipulate whatever-the-hell kind of energy The Fallen is throwing around, ''then'' it makes sense why you'd need a Prime to beat him... because only a Prime could nullify his godlike powers so The Fallen was forced to fight on a direct, physical level. And the movie fight was ''extremely'' visceral. The Fallen doesn't even teleport during it... despite seeming to favor Scorpion-style teleport attacks in the previous scene. Maybe Prime was blocking him? ...would it have '''killed''' them to take 3 seconds to explain this?)
**Prime beats the Fallen senseless with a couple pieces of the sun harvester, then beats him until he's sensible again just so he can be rightly terrified. The Fallen opens a wormhole to escape, but Optimus grabs The Matrix from the base of the harvester, and waves it like a magic wand to SHUT that hole-- and then OPEN another one to...
**"Send you somewhere else. A place where no one will hear from you. Ever again." He throws him through the wormhole, and closes it. (We're not told where it leaves, but the implication is it's someplace The Fallen will '''not''' be able to escape from, despite his ability to open his own wormholes.)
**As in the "The Last Ptime" book, Simmons is explicitly stated to survive being directly under Davastator's balls when he blows up.
:::I had no idea the Jr. novels were so different, and in some ways more complicated. It's like they took the story and slammed it against the wall leaving a pile of plot threads picked up differently in each medium. But at least the movie made some cash. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:15, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

== New page for "repurposed Protoform Optimus Prime" Prime? ==

Should a new page be created for "repurposed Protoform Optimus Prime" Prime to attempt to start to keep track of these guys or would that be pointless since their appearance changes all the time? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 01:43, 7 January 2010 (EST)

== Older than the Universe? ==

According to [http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/en_US/discover/Timeline.cfm Hasbro's Transformers Timeline], the Primes were ancient when the universe was young. Is that just gibberish, or hyperbole, or are they confusing "universe" with "galaxy" or something? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:44, 3 March 2010 (EST)

:Two options: '''1)''' That phrase is pretty common hyperbole when refering to ancient races in comic book fiction (See the Guardian, Galactus, the Elders of the Universe, etc) so excuse it on that front or '''2)''' Remember that we know the Primes are [[Multiversal singularity|Multiversal singularities]] and given the definition of that Hasbro gave in their Q&As the Primes quite possibly ARE much MUCH older than the Movie universe. -'''ZacWilliam (not signed in)'''

::I just assumed that meant they were among the first lifeforms in the universe. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:06, 3 March 2010 (EST)

:::No, as confirmed Multiversal singularities they exist outside and seperate from the Movie Universe itself and could easily predate it by billions of years or more. '''-Zac again.'''

::::I'd go as far as to say that the Seven Primes as [[Multiversal singularity|Multiversal singularities]] are probably infinitely old. - [[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 10:58, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

Star Harvester

2011-05-27T14:50:15Z

Tyrannolodon: Removing an unneccesary category.

{{disambigr|Harvester|the machines that collected Transformer bodies for the [[smelting pool]] in [[Marvel Comics]]|harvester unit}}
:''A star harvester is a piece of technology from the [[live-action film series|live-action film]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:ROTF-Solarharvester.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Honeycomb's big—yeah, yeah, yeah.]]
When the [[AllSpark]] runs low on energy, only the destruction of a star can replenish it. In order to harness the power of stars, [[Transformer|workers]] in service to the AllSpark built ''' star harvesters'''.

==Fiction==
===IDW ''Transformers'' movie comics===
[[Image:Harvester Defiance4.jpg|left|thumb|150px|[[Ark (G1)|And no one on Earth discovered this for millions of years]].]]
In the distant past, the mysterious relic known as the AllSpark cube created life on the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] and terraformed its surface to make the world suitable for habitation for its creations, the [[Thirteen original Transformers|Thirteen Primes]]. However, this effort depleted the AllSpark, and the power from a star was the one thing that could re-energize it. The Thirteen could travel dimensions, but they needed help locating stars and properly utilizing stellar energy. The cube created a servant race of transforming workers who would seek out stars and build devices called star harvesters to aid in collecting the solar energy. The Thirteen ruled these "[[Transformer]]s" with their descendants, known as the [[Dynasty of Primes]], protecting Cybertron and the AllSpark while exploring the galaxy and searching for stars to harvest. The Primes recognized that the star harvesters could have devastating consequences for worlds without stars, so they set out with a single rule: Never take a star from a life-giving world. To further prevent misuse, the Primes guarded the [[Matrix of Leadership]] created by the AllSpark, which would serve as the key for the harvesters.

One "[[Jetfire (ROTF)|Seeker]]" discovered [[Sun|a suitable star]] for their purpose and led his masters and the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|builders]] to the [[Earth|third planet]] of its star system. The builders constructed the harvester and prepared to drain the Sun's energy, but it was discovered that this world contained life. Twelve of the Primes refused to utilize the harvester, for the process would destroy this world. However, the remaining being felt no such obligation to protect life and merely wanted all of the AllSpark's energy for himself. The Prime killed eleven of his brothers, but the last stole the Matrix and hid it in a tomb. The rogue Prime, now known as [[The Fallen]], then returned to Cybertron and destroyed the rest of the Dynasty, along with the [[sarcophagus|sarcophagi]] of his brothers to prevent their return, but he expended much of his energy and withdrew to his own sarcophagus to heal. It was here that he discovered that his twelve brothers could still act, for they sealed him in his sarcophagus. The Dynasty of Primes passed into the realm of myth, while the harvester left on Earth was eventually hidden by the [[human|native sentient inhabitants]]. When [[Optimus Prime (Prime)|Optimus Prime]] launched the AllSpark into space, the Cube began searching for a planet with a harvester. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}} {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen issue 3|Revenge of the Fallen #3}}

Thousands of years later, [[Decepticon]]s under the command of [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] arrived on Earth in search of the harvester. {{Storylink|Alliance issue 2|Alliance #4}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie===
The [[Seven Primes]] came to [[Earth]] around 17,000 BC. Although they had sworn never to take a life in their pursuit of [[energon (fuel)|energon]], one of their kind hated the [[human]] inhabitants of the planet and was going to activate the star harvester until his brothers stopped him by stealing the [[Matrix of Leadership]] needed to power it. They sealed it in a [[Tomb of the Primes|tomb]] made of their own bodies.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus destroys harvester.jpg|thumb|right|250px|And historians, archaeologists and treasure seekers across the world go nuts.]]
In 2009 AD, [[The Fallen]] Prime returned to Earth, seeking to use his machine two years after the [[AllSpark]]'s apparent destruction. [[Sam Witwicky]] uncovered the tomb and recovered the Matrix, which he intended to use to resurrect [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]], the only one who could kill The Fallen. [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]] excavated the harvester from the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]] before he was destroyed, and The Fallen snatched the Matrix to activate his machine, but Optimus had returned, and he combined with [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]] to destroy the harvester. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
A team led by [[Skyquake (G1)|Skyquake]] was sent to the [[Skomiloch Territories]] to put down local resistance to the Decepticons' star harvesting efforts. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers|Snare's personnel evaluation}}

==Games==
===Transformers: Battle for the Matrix===
{{Note|Battle for the Matrix is a simplified retelling of the events of [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]. It can be played from the perspective of either Bumblebee or Optimus Prime. The final battle is against Megatron and the Fallen at the Star Harvester.}}
[[Image:Solarharvester battleforthematrix.jpg|thumb|200px|left]]
{{storylink|Transformers: Battle for the Matrix}}
{{-}}

==Notes==
* Yeah, it's the same idea as the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]'s [[Solar Needle]]. ''That doesn't make it a reference!''

[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]
[[Category:Technology]]

Talk:Star Harvester

2011-05-27T14:47:51Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Energon Source and Other Stuff */

Why? Aren't they called different names and have completely different origins? Yeah, the Harvester is cribbed from the Solar Needle, but I think merging them begins journey down a slippery slope. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:24, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
:Goood lord, no, that's about as silly a proposal for a merge as I've ever seen. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:30, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
::Anyone else but me notice it kinda looks like that Vox house in Beast Wars, in which they conversed with Optimus? (signed by an uncreated acount at 8:57 PM, Mountain time)
== Move? ==

In the last two issues of the movie adaptation comic, they call it "the star harvester" about fifty times.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:36, 13 June 2009 (EDT)
:<s>The movie used the term "Solar Harvester". --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:06, 25 June 2009 (EDT)</s>
::No it didn't. Re-watched the movie a few times and it's name wasn't mentioned. My bad. Don't know ''where on Earth'' I heard "solar" from. :S --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 10 March 2010 (EST)

== Energon Source and Other Stuff ==

Exactly where are they going to put all that energon? Also, wouldn't the blast of the sun cause it to go supernova and destroy Earth? Then again, the Fallen can telepo........bah, open a space bridge. [[Special:Contributions/69.230.74.60|69.230.74.60]] 22:18, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:In the official prequel comics the harvester recharged the AllSpark. I think that was the same plan when the Earth harvester originally built. How was the Fallen going to store the Energy in the film where the AllSpark was destroyed? Umm... Good question. I don't think it would necessarily make the sun go supernova, unless that was stated somewhere in fiction. It is draining energy from the sun, so maybe it wouldn't have enough energy left to go supernova. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:58, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:Do you want to put a trivia bullet about where the Fallen would store energy? [[Special:Contributions/69.230.74.60|69.230.74.60]] 23:52, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:I know I'm late to this discussion but I think I have an explanation that can satisfy all of us. Considering that the Fallen can lift hundreds of tons worth of matter telekinetically with no visible effort, spew fireballs from nowhere, unmake reality by thinking hard, and can teleport at will I think it's safe to assume that the technology of the Primes/Original Thirteen sneers at such things as space limits. It's almost a given that they use some kind of space folding or pocket dimension flubdudgery. As for Supernova stuff, the Sun isn't big enough to go Supernova in the first place, and the Sun Harvester would probably only leave a cold dead mass, like how a giant monster leech would only leave a dessicated husk. So no risk of sun kaboominess. - [[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 10:47, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Star Harvester

2011-05-27T14:47:30Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Energon Source and Other Stuff */

Why? Aren't they called different names and have completely different origins? Yeah, the Harvester is cribbed from the Solar Needle, but I think merging them begins journey down a slippery slope. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:24, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
:Goood lord, no, that's about as silly a proposal for a merge as I've ever seen. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:30, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
::Anyone else but me notice it kinda looks like that Vox house in Beast Wars, in which they conversed with Optimus? (signed by an uncreated acount at 8:57 PM, Mountain time)
== Move? ==

In the last two issues of the movie adaptation comic, they call it "the star harvester" about fifty times.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:36, 13 June 2009 (EDT)
:<s>The movie used the term "Solar Harvester". --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:06, 25 June 2009 (EDT)</s>
::No it didn't. Re-watched the movie a few times and it's name wasn't mentioned. My bad. Don't know ''where on Earth'' I heard "solar" from. :S --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 15:46, 10 March 2010 (EST)

== Energon Source and Other Stuff ==

Exactly where are they going to put all that energon? Also, wouldn't the blast of the sun cause it to go supernova and destroy Earth? Then again, the Fallen can telepo........bah, open a space bridge. [[Special:Contributions/69.230.74.60|69.230.74.60]] 22:18, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:In the official prequel comics the harvester recharged the AllSpark. I think that was the same plan when the Earth harvester originally built. How was the Fallen going to store the Energy in the film where the AllSpark was destroyed? Umm... Good question. I don't think it would necessarily make the sun go supernova, unless that was stated somewhere in fiction. It is draining energy from the sun, so maybe it wouldn't have enough energy left to go supernova. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:58, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:Do you want to put a trivia bullet about where the Fallen would store energy? [[Special:Contributions/69.230.74.60|69.230.74.60]] 23:52, 9 February 2010 (EST)
:I know I'm late to this discussion but I think I have an explanation that can satisfy all of us. Considering that the Fallen can lift hundreds of tons worth of matter telekinetically with no visible effort, spew fireballs from nowhere, unmake reality by thinking hard, and can teleport at will I think it's safe to assume that the technology of the Primes/Original Thirteen sneers at such things as space limits. It's almost a given that they use some kind of space folding or pocket dimension flubdudgery. As for Supernova stuff, the Sun isn't big enough to go Supernova in the first place, and the Sun Harvester would probably only leave a cold dead mass, like how a giant monster leech would only leave a dessicated husk. So no risk of sun kaboominess.[[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 10:47, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

Transcendent Technomorph

2011-05-27T14:36:47Z

Tyrannolodon: /* TransTech */ If it's going to be linked...it might as well be linked to something.

{{disambig2|the guys in Axiom Nexus|the toys you can never have|Transtech}}
:''The Transcendent Technomorphs are a highly-evolved race of Transformers in TransTech [[continuity]].''

[[Image:Silverbolttranstech.jpg|right|300px|thumb|We're from an older and better universe than you, nyeah!]]
The '''Transcendent Technomorphs''', shortened to '''TransTechs''', are overall better than you. Hailing from a vastly more advanced [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] that has never known the primitive scourge of war, this ancient sub-race of Transformers has watched over the [[multiverse]] for untold eons (their own [[universal stream]] being the "Nexus"), welcoming travelers from other dimensions through their emissary city of [[Axiom Nexus]]. They have developed their bodies, technology, and civilization to a highly evolved state, far beyond that of the war-wracked bestial Transformers who typically pass through Axiom Nexus's gates.

However, they might not be as nice as they seem. Some of them are at the very least, a bit... how shall we say... ''[[Shockwave (TransTech)|morally ambiguous]]''.

==Fiction==
===''TransTech''===
[[Image:Transtechcheetorratbatprimestarscream.jpg|left|250px|thumb|We TransTech don't take normal walks. We take SUPER MEGA walks that are somehow in every single way possible better than yours!]]
Though there were ever-present planet-wide crises, extradimensional threats, and debilitating political corruption,<ref>[[Optimus Prime (TransTech)|Optimus Prime]]'s profile in [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 24]].</ref> the TransTechs' Cybertron never sank to the apocalyptic level of war. As such, their society was able to achieve unimaginable feats in technology and scientific discovery. However, many of these advancements were made possible by the amoral persistence of [[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]] and his master [[Jhiaxus (TransTech)|Jhiaxus]], not to mention a secret government partnership with the [[Liege Maximo]].<ref>[[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]]'s profile in [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 22]].</ref>

At some point in time, the TransTechs' universe confronted the [[Unicron|Unicron Phenomenon]] and they were gladly successful in diverting it... for the time being. {{storylink|Withered Hope}}

However, one bot sought to bring Cybertron into a new Golden Age, free of corruption and cynicism. This bot, an archivist named [[Optimus Prime (TransTech)|Optimus]], inspired the masses with his speeches and soon attracted the attention of a young military professional named [[Megatron (TransTech)|Megatron]]. A partnership formed and together, the two rose through the ranks of their respective career paths, military and political, until they uncovered [[Sentinel Prime (TransTech)|Sentinel Prime]]'s scandalous ties with the Liege Maximo. After a dramatic, violent battle with the Liege Maximo itself,<ref>[[Megatron (TransTech)|Megatron]]'s profile in [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 24]].</ref> much of the government was caught in this controversy and as a result, few were left standing when the legal proceedings ended. But from the ruins of this event rose Megatron and Optimus, with the former proving himself in battle and the latter proving worthy of becoming the new Prime.

Thanks to Optimus Prime's strong moral guidance and the strength of his political convictions, Cybertron did enter a new Golden Age. It was not a completely fresh start, however. Though Megatron arrested Shockwave as a war criminal, he was able to convince the [[High Senate]] to allow the scientist to continue doing experiments only under his guidance. In addition, [[Starscream (TransTech)|Starscream]] miraculously emerged unscathed from the Maximo incident despite his heavy involvement.<ref>[[Starscream (TransTech)|Starscream]]'s profile in [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 23]].</ref>

[[Image:Cryotektranstech.jpg|right|250px|thumb|We prefer to look like [[Soundwave (ROTF)|ROTF Soundwave]].]]
As stewards of the multiversal hub city [[Axiom Nexus]] and its massive and unruly "[[lowtech|outworlder]]" population, the TransTechs have few dull moments. [[Flareup (Timelines)|Officer Flareup]] was involved in an incident at Shockwave's lab with some illegal outworlders from the [[Malgus]] universe cluster, but all agreed never to speak of it again. {{storylink|Bee in the City}} Two outworlders from the [[Primax]] cluster were framed for the murder of a high-profile rebel group leader, but the real perpetrators were revealed to be stooges for a [[Cryotek (TransTech)|local gangster]]. {{storylink|Gone Too Far}} The arrival of [[GoBots (G1)|six dimensional travelers]] from an [[Tonka GoBots|unknown cluster]] resulted in the incarceration of [[Demolishor (TransTech)|General Demolishor]] of the military police. {{storylink|Withered Hope}} A harrowing incident that exchanged the [[spark]]s of [[RoboCo]] CEO [[Bulletbike (TransTech)|Bulletbike]] and a mere "[[lowtech]]" resulted in dozens dead and a government frightened by the possibility of undetectable Spark-swapping technology. {{storylink|I, Lowtech}}

However, the most noteworthy event was the abduction by Megatron and Shockwave of [[Breakaway (Classics)|a lowtech]] who was rescued by a rebel band led by [[Alpha Trion (SG)|Alpha Trion]]. The band stormed the [[Transwarp Complex]], murdered several TransTechs, dismantled Shockwave, and escaped with the abductee through a dimensional gate. {{storylink|Transcendent}} It is believed that this group had something to do with the Bulletbike incident.

===Known TransTech===
{{collist|3|
*[[Adventas]]
*[[Andromeda (TransTech)|Andromeda]]
*[[Aurik]]
*[[Beam Rider]]
*[[Blackarachnia (TransTech)|Blackarachnia]]
*[[Bricolo]]
*[[Bulletbike (TransTech)|Bulletbike]]
*[[Cheetor (TransTech)|Cheetor]]
*[[Corvo]]
*[[Cryotek (TransTech)|Cryotek]]
*[[Cy-Kill (TransTech)|Cy-Kill]]
*[[Cyclis]]
*[[Demolishor (TransTech)|Demolishor]]
*[[Depth Charge (TransTech)|Depth Charge]]
*[[Doppler]]
*[[Ego]]
*[[Immorticon]]
*[[Jhiaxus (TransTech)|Jhiaxus]]
*[[Megatron (TransTech)|Megatron]]
*[[Nightscream (TransTech)|Nightscream]]
*[[Optimus Prime (TransTech)|Optimus Prime]]
*[[Prowl (TransTech)|Prowl]]
*[[Ratbat (TransTech)|Ratbat]]
*[[Rhinox (TransTech)|Rhinox]]
*[[Scavenger (TransTech)|Scavenger]]
*[[Scooter (TransTech)|Scooter]]
*[[Scorponok (TransTech)|Scorponok]]
*[[Shockwave (TransTech)|Shockwave]]
*[[Silverbolt (TransTech)|Silverbolt]]
*[[Skyquake (TransTech)|Skyquake]]
*[[Starscream (TransTech)|Starscream]]
*[[Strika (TransTech)|Strika]]
*[[Stungun (TransTech)|Stungun]]
}}

==Notes==
* The TransTech character designs, and by proxy the entire concept, originated with the aborted franchise of [[Transtech|nearly the same name]].

==Footnotes==
<references />

[[Category:Species]]
[[Category:Transcendent Technomorphs| ]]
[[Category:TransTech]]
[[Category:Timelines]]

Talk:Blackout (Movie)

2011-05-27T14:03:27Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Crotch-shot? */

==Hard points==
Should it be mentioned in the article that the two hard points on the Voyager-class figure's shoulders are perfectly suited to plugging a Mini-con onto? I noticed this when I first purchased the figure, then tried it out when I got a chance; the pegs are almost identical to the ones on Armada and Energon figures.
[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 06:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
:Note it in the Voyager class toy's writeup. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:09, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
:Italicized trivia at the end of the toy writeup. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
:: I don't think its particularly significant, given that several non UT-era toys have that sort of 5mm peg with a hole in the middle. Even G1 Ultra Magnus has one. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
::: I think mentioning as part of the toy's description that it has two Powerlinx pegs on its shoulders/helicopterpartthingy isn't intrusive, and is actually a good thing to know! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:::: Something that EXPANDS the toy's playability? HELL YES it should be mentioned! --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 07:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
::::: Well the toy IS pretty unplayable in its present form, so it needs all the help it can get. I'll have to reword the blurb, because it suggests somebody at Haskara might have intended them to be Mini-Con ports, when they are not. Merely a coincidence. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
::::::aaaaand i'll just remove what I just said - forgot about this giant weapon, there. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

== Blackout on mars ==

In the movie, [[Tom Banachek]] clearly state that the robot destroying the Bealgle 2 Rover has been identified as the one that attacked the base in Irak. Shouldn't that be mentioned?--[[User:GUIGUI|GUIGUI]] 17:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
:Definitely. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
:I... don't think it's clearly stated. They say they have similar exoskeletal thingermajig. They could simply be saying he's the same species. We should be careful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah it was not clearly stated as such. What he told Keller was that they believe it the two things in the photos (Mars McRandomdude and Blackout) have a similar exoskeletal structure, not 'the thing that attacked the base destroyed this probe a couple of years ago!' --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well seeing that the transformers can also been ditingued by they personnal exoskeleton, we could mention it with a "Presumed", or a "it could be", even in the trivia, no?--[[User:GUIGUI|GUIGUI]] 18:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
:::There's no evidence, so we can't suggest it in trivia, in my opinion. They do that far too often on the regular Wikipedia. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
::It seemed pretty obvious to me that it was supposed to be the same guy. I assumed the "similar" part was just because now the guy turns into a helicopter and looks slightly different now-- not that it was a different guy. I mean, their silhouettes were basically the same. Regardless, if it's really a contended point, do we have any secondary material that addresses this at all? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
::I assumed the 'similar' bit meant 'we think it's the same species.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
:::It seemed to me that Banachek was saying it's the same robot. However, it is at best implied, and the idea of that being Blackout contradicts, IMO, Bumblebee's designation as N.B.E.-2. I was under the impression that Bumblebee was supposed to be the Mars robot, and thus was surprised by the (to me) implied "it was Blackout". --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Well, no, we know the rover-smasher was definitely either Starscream, Blackout or Barricade - we see it ''happen'' on the second-to-last page of the IDW prequel. We just don't see which one of them delivers the blow. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Tom clearly states that they are of “the same exoskeletal type”, so other than it being Blackout who the image is compared to, there is no implication that they are the same one what so ever. The purpose of that scene was to show they are the same species, nothing more. As far as evidence in the movie goes, the Mars Transformer is no more Blackout than it is any other character.
Obviously the images do look similar, but then most of the transformers are similar anyway, (just try looking at silhouettes of the Atobot protoforms for instance), realistically blackout would be too big for the event; he would overwhelm the view and would have cast the rover in a much greater shadow. If anything it looks more logical to be Barricade. -Guest 15:21, 6 March 2008.

==New image==
[[Image:Movie_Blackout_promorender2.jpg|thumb|right|300px|]]

Opinions on using this image as the new main pic? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally, what I would like to see this Wiki do is put a section at the bottom of each page of the movie transformers that contains all other images of that character, including extra CGI renders. --Guest 20.55 23February 2008

==Automorph==
I put info on how to best automorph the voyager class figure. Hope it helps. --[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 00:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

==Cyber Slammer==
I think the Cyber Slammers blackout thing is just an error on Hasbro's website's part, the page was up for a day with no pics or text, and I don't recall the toy being announced anywhere else. I'm removing it from the page 'til there's prooof it's gog to be made. --[[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] 03:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

==Alt-mode Origin Contradiction==
It just occurred to me that there may not necessarily be a contradiction between Blackout getting his alt-form 3 years before the movie in the "Prime Directives," prequel comic, and the mention of how his serial number namesake got shot down in Afghanistan 3 months prior to the movie. He mentions in the comic that there "were no witnesses," in contrast to Blackout and Starscream. If this is true, then it's entirely possible that he scanned the vehicle without any humans noticing, and then both he and the helicopter he scanned went on their separate paths; Blackout doing the stuff he did in Prime Directives and the helicopter getting shot down in Afghanistan three months before the movie. --[[User:UndeadScottsman|UndeadScottsman]] 08:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

==EMP??==
Why is Blackout's initial attack called an EMP wave? If it was, every electrical circuit on the base should be rendered dead. This was clearly not the case since the computers were still on. It looks like just some kind of plain old shockwave to me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

==Sabot at the base?==
Can we confirm it was a sabot round? I mean, for one, they didn't pull that trump card until later in the film. Two, Blackout didn't "react" the way every other Transformer (including himself) did when hit with Sabot: Namely, in pain. At the base, he merely "flinched".
tl;dr I think it was a simple grenade launcher. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 06:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
:You're right, it was just a grenade round. On the DVD there appears to be, as the soldiers later relate, some kind of force field holding back the energy of the grenade. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

== Blackout not dead? ==

In a recent video released by Bay himself, we see Prime clearly getting his ass kicked by Starscream, Megatron, and Blackout. Is this currently worth noting, or is someone going to suggest Blackout has a twin?
--[[Special:Contributions/75.181.157.99|75.181.157.99]] 07:24, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
:He definitely is, anything else is speculation. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 11:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
::It's not really that odd...Megatron was dead and disposed of with Blackout, so presumably whatever resurrected Megatron also nabbed Blackout. Honestly, it should have been expected.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 12:27, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
:He does have a twin of sorts, [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]] is a Blackout repaint appearing in both the toyline and the video game. While there's absolutely no confirmation that Grindor's the character in the trailer, there's also no confirmation that it *isn't* him. This will all be easy enough to confirm once we've seen the movie and game and so on, but until then I don't think we can say with certainly that Blackout returns in the new film. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 15:02, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

== ROTF status ==

So we have absolutely no idea if it's Blackout in Revenge of the Fallen? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:49, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
:No idea at all. Apparently the Blackout-like 'Con in the film is never called by name, has no lines (and so isn't listed in the credits), and Megatron's the only one of the dead 'Cons from film 1 that the 'Cons (a) are seeking to bring back and (b) are shown to bring back. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:55, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
::It is the same in the adaptations. Interestingly, there is a Blackout in the [[M&M's]] portion of the ROTF continuity. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:02, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

== Blackout is dead ==

Transformers Revenge of the Fallen has been released in tokyo, and it has been confirmed that Blackout is dead. The Blackout-looking guy you see in the commercial is Grindor. [[User:Homey|Homey]] 17:05, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

 It seems that much of the decepticon army is made of duplicates, as induvidual constructicons appear at the same time as Devastator, and Demolisher is clearly dead by this point. Along with the the new helicopter guy, there is a decepticon with Bonecrushers alt mode shown breifly, though it doesn't transform.[[User:Thelastallosaur|Thelastallosaur]] 18:17, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Thelastallosar, please don't spam.[[User:Homey|Homey]] 19:01, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Crotch-shot? ==

Practically every article that does as much as remotely mention Blackout states he was shot in the crotch. I wouldn't even have that much of a problem with this if it wasn't an outright lie. It is quite clear in the movie that he was shot underneath his chest armor, hitting his spark. As Epps said "They're weakest underneath the chest", right before Lennox proceeded to slide under Blackout, allowing him to get his shots underneat the armor.--[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:29, 8 August 2009 (EDT)

I know I'm a bit late to the party but I think it's a rule of funny thing. Also, you see Blackout getting hit for about one or two seconds, one can be forgiven if they think that Blackout is getting hit in the crotch in the brief moment you have to see the explosions impact the behemoth.[[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 10:03, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

== Call of Duty; Modern Warfare 2 ==

In the game, there are two callsigns which shout out reference to Transformers. One is called "Blackout" and features a Pave Low. The other is called "Transformer", and also features a Pave Low. Should we add this to trvia?
-ThiAthEhn

:We generally don't add references to outside media. The "Will Plays with Transformers" clip was removed from the [[Razorbeast]] page for this reason.

== Cannon ==

I'm pretty suere I saw him fire the chest cannon, only for a split second, in Mission City ''once''.—[[User:TOM|TOM]] 19:00, 6 January 2011 (EST)

==Promo render==
Off his page, you inconveniently-sized thing! --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 09:06, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

[[Image:MovieBlackout promorender.jpg|left|thumb]]

Optimus Prime (Movie)

2011-05-27T12:36:26Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Notes */ Please tell me if this isn't appropriate or is a little bit too snide.

{{factions|autobotfilm|{{factions/icons|custom=Cyberglyphics Prime Symbol.png|cLink=Dynasty of Primes|cPretty=Prime}}|NEST|hofsilver}}
{{disambig3|Optimus Prime}}{{suite}}

:''Optimus Prime is the [[Autobot]] leader from the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] [[Continuity family|continuity family]]. He has [[Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots|sometimes]] used the codename '''10-22'''.''

[[Image:Movieprime meettheautobots.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Hello, pretty bird. GIVE ME YOUR FACE.]]

'''Optimus Prime''' is the leader of the [[Autobot]]s. Long ago, he was the humble leader of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s science division, which studied the [[AllSpark]], and were protected by [[Lord High Protector]] [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'s military. When Megatron was corrupted by [[The Fallen]], Optimus discovered that he was the last of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], hidden away when The Fallen destroyed their lineage. In response to Megatron's attempts to seize the AllSpark and conquer other worlds, Optimus assumed his proper [[Prime (rank)|title]] and rallied the Autobots to stand against the [[Decepticon]]s.

As obsessively as Megatron strives to achieve his objective, Optimus is equally as dedicated to stopping him, even at the cost of his life, his world, and—if necessary—his own people. It was on his order that the AllSpark was jettisoned into space, dooming Cybertron to a slow death and his people to a nomadic life. The sacrifices he has made weigh heavily on his [[spark]], but they must be done, for there is no other choice. He knows the ambitions that lurk in Megatron's spark, and they must never see the light of day. Lives must be kept free from the threat of Megatron's tyranny, no matter the cost.

{{bigquote|Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.|Optimus Prime reflecting on his past|''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''}}

==Fiction==
===IDW ''Transformers'' movie prequel comics===

It was Optimus Prime's [[Prima|ancestor]] who finally vanquished [[the Fallen]] to another [[sarcophagus|dimension]] in the battle for the [[Matrix of Leadership]], {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}} but his orphaned descendant who was hidden away from the Fallen grew up with no knowledge of what he was. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen issue 3|Revenge of the Fallen Adaptation issue 3}}

[[Image:Foundation1-literaldawn.jpg|left|thumb|300px|He's right, an actual literal dawn ''was'' involved. Put those knives away, English majors.]]

Eons after the [[Dynasty of Primes]] were vanquished, Cybertron fell into dark times. The AllSpark had been buried somewhere within Cybertron and been dismissed as a legend, and the planet itself lacked a star to orbit. As energy became more and more scarce, Cybertronians segregated into tribes. [[Sentinel Prime (ROTF)|Sentinel Prime]], a being who claimed to be descended from [[Primus]] himself, found Optimus and recruited him into his cause. {{storylink|Foundation issue 1|Foundation #1}} Optimus and [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] helped Sentinel Prime locate the AllSpark and harness a star for Cybertron to orbit, and these fantastic acts united Cybertron for the first time in known history. But Sentinel Prime had grown old and weary and refused to lead the Cybertronians, and, in confidence, he revealed to Optimus that he was a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]], and that he ought to succeed him as leader. But Optimus could not believe he was a Prime. Sentinel, understanding Optimus's skeptical attitude, encouraged him to investigate the Primes so he would truly believe in his lineage. Sentinel redrew his plans for Cybertron, having Optimus lead the archaeological [[Science Division]], while placing Megatron in charge of Cybertron's [[Defense Force]]. {{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}} Little did they know that Megatron had been eavesdropping, and Optimus's brother came to a jealousy-inspired conclusion. He didn't believe Optimus Prime had the ability to competently lead Cybertron, and that this series of events would one day pit the two against each other, until one was dead. Megatron vowed that it would not be him. {{storylink|Foundation issue 1|Foundation #1}}

[[Image:Defiance1 Megs Prime argument.jpg|right|350px|thumb|"Hey, I wanted a mouthplate!"]]

For two generations, Optimus and Megatron ruled Cybertron together. The two personalities created a balance; Prime was fair while Megatron was firm. {{storylink|Movie Prequel issue 1|Movie Prequel #1}} After an increase in [[Malcontent]]s disrupting Sentinel's order, Megatron intimidated Optimus into giving him supreme power in defense of the planet. {{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}} When ''Lord'' Protector Megatron toured the excavation site near the temple at [[Simfur]], he and Optimus clashed over several issues. While Optimus wanted to take the investigation slowly, all Megatron cared about was whether the site contained power similar to the AllSpark. Optimus nettled Megatron when he reminded the Protector that the science sector was in charge of scientific and archaeological discoveries, and that the defense forces had a tendency to treat such discoveries as hostile, to which Megatron responded that if and when he was leader, he could make such decisions. When a [[The Fallen|mysterious relic]] was uncovered, Optimus disagreed with Megatron's order for it to be removed from the ground. Just as the two were about to launch into yet another argument, aliens previously encountered by Commander [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] attacked Cybertron. Megatron blackmailed Optimus into moving the relic into his personal quarters by reminding the science leader that the science division would like to protect the only intact relic from harm. {{storylink|Defiance issue 1|Defiance #1}}

Optimus ordered his science teams to help the survivors on both sides, in the hopes of finding out who was responsible and why they attacked. While he went off to find Megatron, he ordered the others to continue searching for survivors while [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]] examined the alien remains. Optimus was shocked and appalled when Megatron ordered him to marshal his forces for war. Optimus objected, as his science division was not trained for combat, but Megatron retorted that the scientists should have known that aliens were after the AllSpark. He endured Megatron's insane fury when he accused the Protector of betraying that upon which their society was built. Later, Optimus called upon a meeting with his science division to ask them to stay by his side and continue on with their mission of peaceful research, as they were protectors, not soldiers. While the aerial-based Cybertronians followed Megatron into space, Optimus confided in [[Prowl (Movie)|Prowl]] and [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] that Megatron sought to divide their planet, and he asked the former for help breaking into the High Protector's personal quarters. {{storylink|Defiance issue 2|Defiance #2}}

[[Image:Defiance3_OptimusPrime_battle.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Man...Prime ain't foolin' around.]]

After noting that Megatron had restored the artifact to pristine condition, Optimus had to leave the military leader's quarters just before he returned. Back at Burthov, he came upon [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], Arcee, and [[Elita-One (Movie)|Elita-One]] scanning the pieces of the other artifacts. Arcee then discovered that the pieces all contained the same symbol on them, and that the same symbol was on Optimus' head. Ratchet declared that the symbol was proof of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], and it indicated Optimus himself was a [[Dynasty of Primes|Prime]]. Ratchet and the other Autobots began to dub him "Optimus Prime", although a humble Optimus noted they did not know what it meant and for all they knew, he could just be from a line of record clerks. As they discussed the revelations, Prowl was forced by Megatron to arrest Optimus, but this turned out to be a trap to kill him. Optimus bested Starscream, while Megatron formed his new faction, the [[Decepticon]]s. {{storylink|Defiance issue 3|Defiance #3}}

{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Foundation issue 3|Foundation #3}}

[[Image:Ark Bridge Defiance4.jpg||thumb|300px|right|]]
Retreating to Burthov with his fellow scientists and Prowl's security officers, Optimus was acknowledged as the leader of the group, with Prowl serving as his lieutenant. He and Prowl were discussing sites for a new base when Jazz informed them that Captain Ironhide of the [[Defense Force]] wanted to see Optimus. Learning of Megatron's new starship, the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'', Optimus Prime was convinced by his advisers that their side needed a [[Ark (Movie)|ship of their own]] to prepare for any eventualities. The Autobots found themselves at an advantage when the ''Nemesis'' left Cybertron with the balance of the Decepticon forces, and Optimus himself took the fight to their enemies.

{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Foundation issue 3}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 4}}

{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Foundation issue 1}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 2}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 3}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 4}}

However, years of bloody war devastated the planet, and Optimus saw no end in sight, unless the main reason for fighting was removed from the conflict. He revealed his plan to capture the AllSpark, and most assumed the Autobots would somehow take it aboard their ship. But Optimus's real plan was to blast the Cube into deep space, away from Cybertron and away from Megatron. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

[[Image:Optimusprimemovieprequel.jpg|left|200px|thumb|All Primes are required to have window boobs.]]

The AllSpark was successfully ejected into space at [[Tyger Pax]], where [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] distracted Megatron. Prime and the Autobots were held up in [[Simfur]] during the launch. {{storylink|Movie Prequel issue 1|Movie Prequel #1}} As they prepared to leave Cybertron on board the ''[[Ark (Movie)|Ark]]'' to go after the AllSpark, Optimus Prime had some doubts about his decision, feeling that in buying them some time in the war, he had sentenced their world to death. [[Prowl (Movie)|Prowl]] disagreed, pointing out that had Megatron been able to claim the Cube, all those that opposed him would have been destroyed, and that Prime had turned death into a fighting chance for the Autobots. Bolstered by Prowl's words, Prime resolved to rebuild their shattered home once they retrieved the AllSpark. {{storylink|The Reign of Starscream Issue Number One}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Beginnings''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Bumblebee remembered Optimus Prime's orders that they must launch the AllSpark into space, for it was better to lose it to the depths of space than allow Lord Megatron to corrupt it with his evil. For wherever there is hope, there is life. {{storylink|Transformers: Beginnings}}

{{note|Transformers: Beginnings is a condensed, flash-animated retelling of the [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] [[Movie Prequel]] that is detailed above this section.}}

===Titan Magazines ''Transformers'' movie comics===
[[Image:OptimusMovie_GeoffSenior.JPG|250px|thumb|Starting as he means to go on.]]

When war broke out, Optimus studied the entire history of intergalactic warfare from any datatrack he could find—he studied whole campaigns to desperate last stands, gaining a focused "playbook" of warfare strategy. He understands warfare on a practical and psychological level, and in desperate battles knows to show no mercy to opponents beyond a swift death. <ref>''Autobot VS Decepticon Smackdown! - Megatron V. Optimus Prime'', #4</ref>

Optimus was the focus of constant attacks by assassin drones and killed them all. In the aftermath of one, he witnessed a prophetic vision of the [[Mission City]] battle and realised the AllSpark's ejection could spread war to other planets—but too late to stop the launch... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 1|Prelude: Optimus Prime}}

{{note|The following event is unique to the Titan Magazines comics continuity, and thus does not occur anywhere else.}}

Almost immediately after the final battle against Megatron, Optimus Prime had to lead the Autobots against a horde of [[Zombie|zombie]] Decepticons. Despite having no idea how they could be stopped and having had his power drained by fighting Megatron, Optimus continued to fight the monsters rather than let them run amok. Ratchet worked out a solution just in time before Optimus fell. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 7|Starscream's Militia}}

{{notetitantlg}}

In the alternate reality, Megatron defeated Optimus and took the AllSpark at [[Mission City]]. Prime's body was now partially frozen and in Decepticon hands. He was the last and only hope of the Earth resistance, and so Bumblebee and [[Mikaela Banes]] were not happy to find him offline. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 9|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 1}}

She thawed him out while Bumblebee distracted Megatron, and the revived Prime challenged Megatron to a solo duel... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 12|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 4}} Unfortunately, Megatron's link to the AllSpark meant Optimus could not do any lasting damage and was never going to win. Luckily, Bumblebee and Mikaela saved the day, hitting the distracted Megatron with an old [[Sector Seven]] nanovirus. (Which means ''they'' were the last and only hope, but oh well.) Despite Megatron dying as a result and the AllSpark being destroyed elsewhere, Prime could take no satisfaction in victory: this battle was won, but the war remained... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 13|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 5}}

[[Image:Optimus_Titan12.JPG|left|250px|thumb|"Megatron's face must be cut off...no MATTER THE COST!"]]

He became resigned to the fact that Humanity, battered by Decepticon occupation, would view both Autobot and Decepticon as hostile invaders. When [[NATO]] was manipulated into attacking the Autobots, Optimus refused to allow his men to return fire, and after the crisis passed, he was sure that [[Starscream (Movie)|the Decepticons' unknown new commander]] was up to something bigger. Optimus also placed the last AllSpark fragment in the care of Ratchet, though he was worried exposure to Megatron might have corrupted it. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 14|Aftermath Part 1}} {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 15|Aftermath Part 2}} He was ''not'' happy when Ratchet "took care" of the fragment by bringing [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] back with it, who was left corrupted and amoral by it. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 16|Dark Spark}}

Optimus Prime soon worked out that while the AllSpark's transformation of Earth had been halted, the damage had been done: the organic Earth and the technological transformation were now fighting for supremacy, killing the planet in the process. He called in a specialist team to investigate and limit the damage, while working with [[President of the United States|President Allen]]. In secret, he organised for [[Nucleon]] to be retrieved from the dead Cybertron and brought to Earth, as there was a long shot it could save the planet. He didn't tell the humans out of concern that if they knew about the plan and it failed, their hopes would be raised and dashed. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 17|Return to Cybertron: Part 1}} It was bad enough that Nucleon was so unstable it could turn destructive... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 18|Return to Cybertron: Part 2}}

When the team on Cybertron sent a distress signal and reported [[Stockade (Movie)|Stockade's]] Decepticons had captured the Nucleon, Optimus led the entirety of the Earth-bound Autobots (save Camshaft's team) to Cybertron as back-up. He was then surprised to see Cybertron coming to ''them'', looking [[Unicron|a lot meaner these days]]. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 19|Return to Cybertron: Part 3}} The planet's possessor, Unicron, shot down the Straxus and the Autobots survived only by evacuating it in time in [[protoform]] modes.

Optimus landed next to Stockade's old equipment and, after being filled in by [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], he effortlessly formed an alliance with Stockade against Unicron. His plan was to drain the Nucleon away so Unicron couldn't use it as a power source, while the bulk of the Transformers provided a distraction, which turned out to be going underground and shooting up Unicron's body. The plan worked, Nucleon was secured for Earth, and Optimus extended an offer for Stockade to join them on Earth whenever he wished. Optimus was left optimistic that Autobots and Decepticons had come together in a common cause. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 20|Return to Cybertron: Part 4}}

On returning to Earth, he found the Decepticons had seized the Autobot base and six hundred square miles around it; he made the decision to withdraw to [[Washington, D.C.]], knowing that this meant leaving Mikaela in Decepticon hands. Upon landing at an air base, the Decepticon-controlled President Allen lured him into a trap, and he found himself fighting Jazz, now a Decepticon hired gun. Optimus lured him away from humans and prepared to engage him, but when a second assassin named [[Kullt]] turned up, Jazz gunned it down out of annoyance. Optimus had viewed Jazz as a lost cause but now stated there was still some Autobot in him: he ''could'' have let Kullt do the work for him and then killed him, but he saved Prime instead.

The battle made it clear to Optimus that Allen was under Decepticon mental control. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 21|Hard Target}}

[[Image:Optimus Titan22.JPG|200px|thumb|Freedom is not dispensed here, sentient fools, only DEATH!]]

As he'd promised Bumblebee, Optimus took the Autobots to get Mikaela back; he himself went first, launching himself in [[Protoform|protoform]] mode to land in Savannah like a bomb and tearing his way through [[Swindle (Movie)|drone hordes]]. He was quickly gunned down by aerial units and about to be killed by Starscream, but this whole flashy attack had been a diversion—allowing other Autobots a chance to hit the distracted air forces and nab Mikaela. After the battle, Optimus remarked Starscream was no Megatron. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 22|The Decepticon Who Haunted Himself}}

Optimus seemed to quickly bond with [[General Seward]], his military liaison at Andrews Air Base, but that didn't help when the mind-controlled President Allen had the government order the Autobots out of America. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 23|Revolution Part One}} However, Prime had anticipated this. Almost two weeks before, he'd had Ironhide task [[Tom Banachek]] to identify all the Decepticon puppets for him. With Allen making the expected move, he dispatched Ironhide and Bumblebee to set things up so that the following day, when the Autobots all departed, Allen would try to nuke them out of the sky and be fooled by a decoy ship into thinking he'd killed them. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 25|Revolution Part Three}}

To protect the Earth while they were undercover on Cybertron, Optimus had made a deal with Stockade to start a [[Decepticon Civil War]]. Optimus didn't trust Stockade to not renege on the deal and just take control of Earth for himself, {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 24|Revolution Part Two}} but he ensured the Decepticons were set up for the Autobot's final strike: forcibly teleporting all of the enemy to Cybertron via Unicron's leftover teleportational engines, then stranding Cybertron in a remote solar system. Optimus led the troops to Earth and witnessed Megatron's return from the dead... only to ''thwack'' him flying. The next minute, both Megatron ''and'' Stockade (why wait for him to renege?) were teleported away, along with their forces.

This left the Autobots stranded on Earth and with a lot of clean-up to do. But Optimus had ''finally'' brought about the end of the war... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 25|Revolution Part Three}}
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===''Ghosts of Yesterday''===
Optimus Prime led the search for the AllSpark in the ''[[Ark (Movie)|Ark]]'', a transport vessel. When they came across an abandoned solar system, they located [[Ghost 1|a vessel]] of strangely Cybertronian design, seemingly of Decepticon make. When the vessel fled to the surface of a planet, Prime dispatched Bumblebee to investigate while he and the other Autobots battled Decepticons from the ''[[Nemesis (Movie)|Nemesis]]''. Prime managed to defeat [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], and [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]] all on his own. After losing touch with Bumblebee, Prime went down to locate him on the planet, where they were attacked by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and the alien ship. They fell into a cavern network, where they were further attacked by [[Worm-thing|indigenous worms]].

During their flight from the creatures, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee came across the alien vessel. Prime realized that they were trying to surrender, so the Autobots communicated with its crew. Optimus explained that they came in peace, "freedom is the right of all sentient beings," Starscream tricks everyone, and so on. However, the creatures, who called themselves "[[Human|humans]]", explained that they held Megatron, whom they called the Ice Man, on their home world, [[Earth]]. Realizing the destruction Megatron would wreak upon the humans if he escaped, and that the humans would be unable to defend themselves effectively, Prime vowed to see them return to their world to warn it. Prime was able to blast an opening in the cavern, and the group escaped. As they returned to the ''Ark'', Prime began to speculate that the AllSpark was what drew Megatron to Earth.

In the ensuing battle with the Decepticons, Prime was in the difficult position of fighting Starscream and protecting the human ship. His distractions allowed Bonecrusher to spear him with his tail. The difficult state nearly gave Starscream the chance to kill him, but the humans saved Prime's life by damaging Starscream, who destroyed them. Optimus Prime was inspired by their courage and sacrifice, and resolved to locate Earth before the Decepticons did—and hopefully before Megatron came back online. {{storylink|Ghosts of Yesterday}}

===''Transformers'' (2007) film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Tesshō Genda]] (Japanese), [[Guilherme Briggs]] (Brazil), [[Reiner Schöne]] (German), [[Alessandro Rossi]] (Italian), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Guy Nadon]] (French-Canadian)

{{bigquote|A necessary sacrifice to bring peace to this planet. We cannot let the humans pay for our mistakes.|Optimus Prime on sacrificing his life to destroy the [[AllSpark]]}}

[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime protoform.jpg|right|220px|thumb|Having overenergized the previous night, Prime woke up abandoned in a field, with his wallet and clothes stolen.]]
The leader of the Autobots, Optimus Prime, came to Earth shortly after [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] sent his comrades a beacon. Upon atmospheric reentry, Prime managed to land outside of [[Tranquility]]'s inhabited areas. While Sam and Mikaela watched, Optimus transformed and left his landing place. From atop a hill, he quickly scanned the form of an Earth truck, thus configuring his body to transform into it. Prime, [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], and [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] met up with Bumblebee and his human friends, [[Sam Witwicky]] and [[Mikaela Banes]] in an alley. In one of the most extended [[Transformation|transformations]] in the multiverse, Prime assumed his robotic form before the stunned humans. After confirming Sam's identity, Prime introduced himself and his team. When Mikaela asked of the Autobots' intentions, Prime explained the search for the AllSpark, the betrayal of Megatron, and why Sam was important to their search.

[[Image:Movie PrimeSam parentsfreakout.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Optimus Prime will watch you fornicate. And there is nothing you can do about it.]]
Glasses that belonged to Sam's ancestor, [[Archibald Witwicky|Captain Archibald Witwicky]], contained the location of the AllSpark encoded across its lenses, so Optimus Prime ordered his troops to wait outside Sam's house while Sam and Mikaela searched inside for the glasses. Much to Sam's exasperation, Optimus Prime, in his impatience, clumsily ruined his parents' garden, and the Autobots' heavy footsteps convinced them there was an earthquake. Prime's attempts to hide, such as having the Autobots transform into vehicle mode right in the backyard, were also less than satisfactory. Ultimately, Sam came so close to a panic attack that Prime was forced to order the Autobots to fall back. As Prime lectured his team on their supposed inability to remain quiet, Ratchet got himself shocked by walking into some powerlines, causing further problems. When [[Ron Witwicky|the]] [[Judy Witwicky|parents]] came to investigate, Prime's attempt to avoid discovery caused the house to shake, though this was to their benefit, as the father assumed that the damage to the yard was the result of an earthquake. Ironhide suggested that they kill the parents, but Optimus scolded his old friend. Despite all this, their presence remained undetected until [[Sector Seven]] arrived (in a convoy of GMC Yukons) and abducted Sam, Mikaela, and Sam's parents.

[[Image:Movie Optimus Prime S7 mad.JPG|right|300px|thumb|Get out of the car...what's left of it anyway!]]
Optimus Prime sent the Autobots in pursuit of the SUV that contained Sam, Mikaela, and Sector Seven's director, [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]]. Prime intercepted the vehicle carrying their young human friends, ripping the roof of the vehicle off, with the other Autobots disarming the agents, and made it perfectly clear to Simmons how pissed off he was at him for trying to apprehend the two children, regarding this as a bad move on Simmons' behalf. Optimus then ordered his comrades to relieve the agents of their weapons, and attempted to interrogate Simmons. The agents' lack of surprise at their appearance indicated that they had seen Cybertronians before, but Simmons refused to reveal any information. With a Sector Seven backup team en route, Prime ordered the Autobots to scatter, while he took Sam and Mikaela. While hiding under a bridge, Mikaela and Sam slipped and fell off Prime's shoulder. Bumblebee managed to catch them before impact, but was captured, and Sam and Mikaela recaptured, by the organization after their retreat. Now in possession of the glasses which could tell him the location of the AllSpark, Optimus regretfully left Bumblebee in Sector Seven's hands, knowing that if they went after him, they would have to use deadly force.

After regrouping the next day, Prime used the glasses to locate the AllSpark. Jazz again raised objections to leaving Bumblebee behind, but Prime remained firm in his belief of not harming the humans. Ironhide seemed okay with using deadly force, stating the humans were too violent, but Prime countered that when their time had come, the Cybertronians had been [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|little different]]. Going on to explain the potential he saw in the humans, as well as reminding them that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings", Prime revealed to the Autobots his real plan for the AllSpark: if they could not defeat the Decepticons, Prime intended to merge the Cube with his [[Spark|spark]]. Though this would destroy the AllSpark, Ratchet cautioned Prime against this, as it would also kill him. Prime believed that this was acceptable, vowing not to let another race suffer the mistakes of the Transformers. The glasses placed the AllSpark at [[Hoover Dam]] where, luckily, Bumblebee and the young humans were taken.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime sword.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Swiss army Prime.]]
Optimus Prime's team met up with Sector Seven, Bumblebee, Sam, and Mikaela en route, who had planned to hide the AllSpark in nearby [[Mission City]]. While on the highway, he was attacked by [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]], who managed to tackle Optimus and drag him over the edge of a freeway overpass. During the battle, Optimus struck the rage-filled Transformer so hard his [[Optic|optic]] popped out. As the Decepticon swung his claw wildly, Optimus drew his sword from his right arm and sliced off one of Bonecrusher's arms, before brutally finishing off his enemy by [[Decapitation|driving the blade through]] Bonecrusher's neck, severing his head.

Optimus arrived at Mission City just in time to observe Megatron discarding the remains of Jazz, and challenged him. Millennia in the ice had done nothing to lessen Megatron's hatred of his brother, and he launched himself in jet mode at the Autobot leader. Optimus leaped and grabbed hold of the wings, which was a really bad idea, as Megatron drove himself and Prime through an office block. As they flew out of the building onto the street below, Megatron transformed and leapt on top of Prime, declaring the humans undeserving of life. Prime rejected his claims, saying that they deserved to choose for themselves. Megatron threw Prime across the street, declaring that if he wished to defend the humans, Prime could die with them. He then formed his [[Fusion cannon|fusion cannon]] from his forearms. The power up time allowed Prime to draw his [[Ion blaster|ion blaster]] and fire, hitting Megatron. The Decepticon used the momentum to spin around, then used the fusion cannon to blast Prime across the street into another building. Megatron then resumed the hunt for Sam and the AllSpark.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime truck.jpg|right|300px|thumb|He knows he's a sexy truck.]]
Tracking Megatron to the deserted building, Prime barely managed to catch Sam after Megatron knocked him off the roof. Telling the boy to hold onto the Cube, Prime attempted to scale down the building, but Megatron jumped on Prime, causing them both to fall down hard onto the street below. Sam survived, however, and Optimus told the boy that if he could not defeat Megatron, Sam must put the AllSpark into his chest which would destroy it. As Sam sought cover, Optimus faced down Megatron, and informed him that, "At the end of this day, one shall stand, one shall fall". Unfortunately, Megatron, even after years of stasis, proved to be far too powerful for Prime to defeat alone. The unit led by Lennox and the Raptor squadron laid down suppressing fire as Megatron reached for the AllSpark, until Optimus finally took him down by sweeping his legs. Still, Megatron continued, crawling toward the cube. Believing he had lost, Optimus implored Sam to put the AllSpark into his chest. Sam instead thrust it into Megatron's chest, killing the Decepticon leader and destroying the AllSpark.

[[Image:Movie2007 Prime AllSpark shard.jpg|left|300px|thumb|The Autobot [[Matrix of Leadership|Dorito of leadership]]]]
As Optimus watched his brother die, he regretfully said there was little other choice. He also told Sam he owed him a debt of gratitude for saving his life, but was then informed that Jazz had not survived (Jazz was flapping around disrespectfully like a ragdoll during this sequence). Prime briefly eulogized his comrade, then commented that they had gained new comrades in the humans, and was honored by their bravery. Bumblebee, who had finally regained his voice, requested permission to remain with Sam Witwicky, to which the young human eagerly agreed, and Optimus approved. He noticed a fragment of the AllSpark in Megatron's chest cavity and removed it, then permitted the humans to dispose of the Decepticon corpses by dumping them into the deepest part of the ocean.

[[Image:Movie Optimus ending.JPG|right|300px|thumb|[['Til all are one]]!]]
Though Megatron was killed and his Decepticons were defeated, the AllSpark was destroyed, leaving the Autobots unable to restore Cybertron. The Autobots elected to remain on Earth, and Prime sent a message into deep space to any surviving Autobots in the Galaxy to come to their new home on Earth, their long years of searching having finally having come to an end. As the other Autobots rested (and watched Sam and Mikaela make out on Bumblebee's hood) Optimus Prime looked to the sky, hoping his message had been heard. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)|Transformers}}
{{-}}

{{note|The [[Movie Adaptation Issue Number Four|comic book adaptation]] depicts Optimus Prime also defeating [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] during the highway altercation with Bonecrusher. However, the later comic [[The Reign of Starscream Issue Number One|''The Reign of Starscream'' #1]] depicts Ironhide doing the deed.}}
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===Toy bios===
{{notemoviebio}}

That truck he transcanned was ''the coolest thing he ever saw''. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Voyager Class toys|Robo-Vision Optimus Prime}}

When the AllSpark was destroyed, Optimus was ''bathed'' in its power and became a living receptacle: he could destroy or heal with the merest thought. He still remained dedicated to peace, and altered his exterior decorations to match the ones he bore as a young leader, before the beginning of the war. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Voyager Class toys|First Strike Optimus Prime}}

When the war turned out to ''not'' be over though, and with more Decepticons appearing on Earth, he was forced to alter himself to be used for stealth missions—something he finds dishonourable but knows has to be done. He is now sensor transparent and silent. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Leader Class toys|Nightwatch Optimus Prime}} In this form, he came under surprise attack by an equally stealth-modified Starscream, leader of the new Decepticons! {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Legends Class toys|Nightwatch Optimus Prime vs. Stealth Starscream}}

Once the Decepticons were beaten on Earth, Optimus was given intelligence by [[Sector Seven]]. {{storylink|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Fast Action Brawlers|Fire Blast Optimus Prime}}

===Beast Wars Diorama Story===
[[Beast Wars (event)|On Earth in the past and in another universe]], a contingent of [[Maximal]]s, led by [[Optimus Primal]], battled a group of [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] in a forest. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Convoy Chapter}}

Some time into the battle, a warp opened, bringing with it [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], Optimus Prime, and [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]]. Optimus Prime made fast friends with [[Optimus Primal]]; they joined their forces and double-teamed the injured [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], who had just taken a blast to the face from [[Tigatron]]. Starscream then joined the Predacons. The two Optimuses commemorated their accomplishment of teamwork by shaking hands. The Maximals and Ratchet looked up with approval. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Tigatron Chapter}} [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] later appeared and joined the Predacons. As the battled raged, the [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] from Prime's universe came in through the warp. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Gimlet Chapter}}

The Decepticon Megatron brought along [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]], and the two Megatrons combined their troops into a fearsome force against the Autobots and Maximals. Fortuantely for the Autobots and Maximals, [[Motorarm (BWII)|Motorarm]] arrived to assist. The two factions then took formation against each other with the intention of combining their energies to attack the opposing side. With [[Motorarm (BWII)|Motorarm]] leading the charge, the Maximals and the Autobots attacked first. {{storylink|Beast Wars Diorama Story|Motorarm Chapter}}

===IDW ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===
[[Image:AllianceOptimusHoloDriver.jpg|right|250px|thumb|[[Peter Cullen|Optimus Prime]] driving Optimus Prime! Sheer awesomeness!]]

Following the battle of [[Mission City]], and the destruction of Megatron and the AllSpark, Optimus Prime was left to ferry the body of his first lieutenant [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] out of the city in an abandoned trailer. Trusting [[William Lennox|Captain Lennox]] and his men, Prime asked the human soldiers to help the Autobots escape from the city, before [[Sector Seven]] and other untrustworthy humans could arrive. A month later, [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]] managed to convince Lennox and [[Robert Epps|Sergeant Epps]] to call upon the assistance of Optimus Prime and the Autobots to escort the Decepticon remains, thereby hopefully reactivating the Decepticon [[Wreckage (Movie)|Wreckage]] somehow. {{storylink|Alliance issue 1|Alliance #1}}

Optimus, Ironhide, Ratchet and Bumblebee arrived at Sector Seven's Nevada desert base to escort to a naval base at [[California|San Diego, California]]. Optimus insisted on escorting Jazz's remains personally, and thanked Lennox for arranging a proper burial-at-sea for his fallen lieutenant. When he noticed the AllSpark shard seemingly reacting to the Decepticon bodies, he handed the fragment to [[Professor Vine]] for safekeeping until he returned. Shortly after leaving the base, Optimus had second thoughts about leaving the fragment in Sector Seven's possession, and ordered Bumblebee and Ironhide to turn around and retrieve the only remaining piece of the AllSpark. {{storylink|Alliance issue 2|Alliance #2}}

[[Image:Alliance3_OptimusPrime_Lennox.jpg|thumb|left|300px|"So erm, want to go back to my place?" "Prime, are you trying to get onto me?" "No dude, I just want to show you my collection of faces and heads!"]]

The convoy returned to the Sector Seven base after learning of Wreckage and Starscream's attacks. [[Salani]] retrieved the AllSpark shard and returned it to Optimus Prime, who felt the last piece of their heritage should stay with him. Weeks later, the Autobots and the soldiers with whom they served traveled aboard a [[United States Navy|US Navy]] carrier for Jazz's burial-at-sea and to observe the disposal of the Decepticons. Optimus deeply appreciated the humans' paying last respects to their fallen comrade, though he was concerned that even the great depths of the [[Laurentian Abyss]] were not enough to keep the Decepticon bodies hidden. Below deck, Optimus and Lennox agreed to a formal [[NEST|alliance between the Autobots and humans]] as the first line of offense and defense against the Decepticons. During training on the island of [[Diego Garcia]], Optimus Prime reminded the Autobots that they must work together with the humans as a team, never forgetting that division was what caused the war on Cybertron in the first place. When they were alone, Optimus Prime and Major Lennox complimented each other's leadership and the dedication of their respective troops. When Lennox commented that it was because of the Autobots that he and his soldiers were alive today, Optimus refuted this, saying it was because of humans such as Lennox and Sam, and that the Autobots were only part of the problem. Soon, both [[NEST]] leaders learned that the Decepticons had returned to Earth. {{storylink|Alliance issue 3|Alliance #3}}

By November 2008, Sideswipe had arrived on Earth, but was recklessly pursuing the Decepticon Demolishor in South America. Optimus was chastised by Admiral Morshower for this "grey area" in the Autobot ranks, but the Autobot leader assured Morshower he would settle it. Human relations were so strained the exasperated Optimus decided to forcibly bring Sideswipe in to end his rampage; however, Ironhide requested he go calm his former student down. Optimus agreed, but made his position clear: if Sideswipe could not be negotiated with... he would be ''dealt'' with. Ironhide eventually was able to calm his student, but not before Demolishor was let loose upon human civilians, AND the authorities were attacking Cybertronians on sight. Luckily, Optimus and a strike team had already arrived and had the authorities stand down, and Sideswipe joined the Autobot ranks. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 2|Tales of the Fallen #2}}

[[Image:Alliance4_Prime_killingspree.jpg|thumb|300px|Freedom is the right of all '''non-Decepticon''' sentient beings.]]

NEST was deployed to [[San Francisco]], where the Decepticons [[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] and [[Dead End (Movie)|Dead End]] were wreaking havoc. Flushed out of hiding, the Decepticons managed to evade the other Autobots, but Optimus Prime quickly put down Dead End by ramming him head-on. When asked by Prime, he commented that he was fine, but he wasn't sure if Dead End was. On the way back to base, Lennox and Optimus Prime discussed Swindle's last words and were concerned that this was just the first wave of Decepticons coming to Earth, and that they were after [[Sam Witwicky]]. Optimus convinced Lennox that no matter what, it was Sam's destiny to become involved in this conflict, and they agreed to send Bumblebee back to the States to resume his role as the boy's guardian. Later, when Optimus observed the distrust for the Autobots held by Lennox's superiors, he suggested that they must work harder and that continued success would satisfy those above them. During the subsequent hunt for Decepticons around the world, Optimus Prime personally destroyed [[Jetstorm (Movie)|Jetstorm]], [[Dropkick]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. As NEST's ranks grew, together they celebrated their victories and mourned those who made the ultimate sacrifice. One event brought joy and hope to the team: The arrival of Autobot refugees who were eager to protect their new homeworld. This joy was tempered by the fact more and more Decepticons were being sighted on Earth, and Optimus believed that there was some unknown that threatened their new home, their species and their alliance with the humans. {{storylink|Alliance issue 4|Alliance #4}}
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===''The Veiled Threat''===
{{Note|The events of ''The Veiled Threat'' take place during [[IDW Publishing]]'s ''[[Alliance (comic)|Alliance]]'' comic.}}

{{bigquote|I know Megatron. I know all of you. You would not have taken the AllSpark and left this world in peace. You would have subdued it and made slaves of its people. Even in the absence of the AllSpark, my conscience and that of my friends could not have allowed that.|Optimus Prime to [[Macerator]]}}

Optimus attended an initial [[NEST]] briefing about sightings of Starscream in [[Zambia]], and was placed in joint command with Lennox of a team to go there to investigate. He also advised some new Autobot arrivals about how best to fit in on Earth. In Zambia, they quickly tracked down three Decepticons, [[Payload (Movie)|Payload]], [[Macerator]] and [[Dropkick]] waiting at the Zambezi River. Optimus, Ironhide and Ratchet waded in to face their opponents, unaware that it was a trap — as they fought, they were dragged downriver towards Victoria Falls. Although the other two Autobots escaped the trap, Optimus was held fast by Macerator and plunged off the falls. While Macerator was caught mid-air by Starscream, Optimus managed to cling to an outcropping. He was rescued by the other Autobots present, utilizing [[Beachbreak]]'s tow line. Enraged by the rescue, Starscream killed Beachbreak, something Optimus regarded as a result of his own failure to lead. The team tracked Payload, Macerator and Dropkick downriver to the Kariba dam, where Optimus rammed two of the Decepticons and then fought with Macerator at length. He eventually triumphed, decapitating the Decepticon. As Dropkick retreated, Optimus stopped Ironhide from firing as he might have hit some of the humans nearby. They instead went to look for Payload, who had been swept away by raging waters from the dam emergency release.

Back at [[Diego Garcia]], two more Decepticon contacts were made in [[Australia]] and [[Peru]]. Optimus opted to lead the team checking Australia. After exploring the Outback for a number of days, the team discussed whether the Decepticons might be hunting for energy to resurrect Megatron, but Optimus doubted there was an energy source on the planet that could do so. They eventually encountered [[Kickback (ROTF)|Kickback]], [[Trample]] and [[Tread]], three [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]]s mining for minerals. Optimus found Kickback's sonic charge weapon to be a challenge, but with some help from Lennox, killed the Decepticon.

After they returned to base, Optimus's input into the conversation on how the Decepticons might revive Megatron was for the most part unhelpful. The subsequent appearance of [[Jolt (Movie)|Deadend]] and [[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] in [[Rome]] led the Autobots to take another trip, but Optimus found Rome's narrow streets frustrating as he was unable to navigate them in his truck form. After [[Knock Out (ROTF)|Knockout]] dealt to the two Decepticons, a furious Starscream challenged Optimus to one-on-one combat in the nearby Colosseum. Naturally it was a trap — Starscream had allied himself with a human, [[Bruno Carrera]], and together they trapped Optimus in a pit and set Barricade on him. With the help of four humans, Optimus broke free, threw Barricade into the pit and sealed him there. He then had only to show his face outside to where Starscream was fighting Ironhide, Ratchet and [[Salvage (Movie)|Salvage]], and the would-be Decepticon leader fled. {{storylink|The Veiled Threat}}

===Titan Magazines ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===

[[Image:Titan5_Optimustwins.jpg|thumb|left|250px|"Your slang is bad and you should ''feel'' bad!"]]

Since coming to Earth, Optimus has had to strive daily to gain credibility with the human powers-that-be. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.5|Reversal of Fortune}}

Even Optimus doesn't believe [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap's]] stories anymore! When those same twins arrived, Optimus was absent on a 'need to know' mission {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|Learning Curve}} in [[Australia]] with [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]]. When [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] landed on the continent, the two Autobots interrupted their mission to bring the bot in. It proved far more difficult than you'd expect, with the Decepticon able to outdistance them in the long run and better suited to the terrain. Optimus was knocked offroad when Sideways blasted him with exhaust, and Arcee reported her alt mode was too out of its comfort zone to keep up... which gave Optimus an idea.

That idea was to take ''away'' the terrain, blasting Sideways off the road and into the grass with projectile weaponry. Violence works!

Optimus took the prisoner to Diego Garcia, and on arrival was greeted with the sight of the twins brawling on the runway. He bawled them out over improper conduct, but before he could go further [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] made an attack. Taking fire, Optimus began barking out orders... only to be tripped up by Skids. Once he was up, Scorponok and Sideways had both done a runner. Knowing that the enemy could ''not'' have got this close without NEST security being compromised, Optimus was convinced by [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe's]] argument that the twins had turned traitor and had them taken away for questions. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.5|Reversal of Fortune}}

When the twins were sprung by Decepticons, Prime agreed with [[Theodore Galloway]] that the Autobots would make finding the twins a number one priority. However, Optimus was left suspicious when a [[Soundwave (ROTF)|mysterious "friend"]] tipped the Autobots off about the twins. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.6|Outlaw Blues}} Soon, it came out that the twins were being framed and by tracking the two, Optimus and his men found out about a Decepticon base near [[Mars (planet)|Mars]]. Optimus led a raid on it, taking down the [[Purple generic drones|drone army]] stationed there. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Tesshō Genda]] (Japanese), [[Guilherme Briggs]] (Brazil), [[Reiner Schöne]] (German), [[Alessandro Rossi]] (Italian), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish), [[Guy Nadon]] (French-Canadian)

[[Image:ROTF-DemolishorPrime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|With the Legends and Voyager toys, this scene is ''just'' possible.]]
After the events in [[Mission City]] two years ago, Optimus Prime and the Autobots became part of a Transformer/human military group called [[NEST]], which hunted down the remaining Decepticons across the world. When [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]] and [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] were detected in [[Shanghai]], NEST was deployed there, including the Autobots [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]], [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]], [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]]. Once Demolishor made himself known by transforming into robot mode and crushing dozens of cars along the highway, [[Robert Epps|Sergeant Epps]] radioed an overhead C-17 to release the Autobot leader. Optimus Prime parachuted out of a NEST cargo plane and landed in vehicle mode. He leapt off a bridge onto the Decepticon's head as he plowed through it. When the massive Constructicon refused his order to pull over, Optimus unleashed several blasts of his [[ion blaster]] into Demolishor's head. These shots, coupled with Ironhide destroying his tires, sent the titan crashing to the ground and into a warehouse. As he and Ironhide approached the dying Decepticon, Optimus asked if he had any last words. With his dying breath, the Constructicon stated that [[The Fallen]] would rise again. Optimus responded in the negative and unceremoniously executed him.

Returning to [[Diego Garcia]], Prime entered a briefing with [[Theodore Galloway]], the National Security Adviser who had been appointed liaison by the [[President of the United States|President]], and [[Morshower|General Morshower]], the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was watching by satellite feed. Prime relayed the warning of The Fallen to them, but Galloway made no effort to conceal his hostility toward the Autobots. He noted that while they had given them intelligence and the sole remaining AllSpark fragment, Galloway took issue with their refusal to share weapons technology and their continued sending of transmissions into space. Prime told Galloway that the Autobots were aware of humanity's history of warfare, and Morshower said that all the transmissions had been vetted by NEST officers. Galloway also pointed out that despite Megatron's death and burial in the Laurentian Abyss and the destruction of the AllSpark, the Decepticons had not left Earth as Optimus had hoped, leading him to conclude that the Autobots were the ones who the Decepticons were after. When asked if the Autobots would leave Earth peacefully if told to, Optimus replied that they would honor their request, but warned Galloway to consider what would happen if the Autobots left but the Decepticons did not.

Unknown to Prime, the Decepticon [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] had been monitoring transmissions and spied on the briefing. Dispatching [[Ravage (ROTF)|Ravage]] to the island, he had his agent steal the remaining AllSpark fragment, killing several soldiers in the process. The incident left the Autobots with rather chilly relations with the United States. Seeking outside help, Optimus dispatched Bumblebee to retrieve Sam Witwicky from college in an effort to secure his testimony on the Autobots' behalf. Meeting Sam at an abandoned cemetery near his college, Optimus explained the situation. Sam was not receptive; in fact, he was quite hostile, saying that he had just started college and was trying to have a normal life. Knowing that fate often called at inconvenient times, Optimus impressed upon Sam the importance of what was going on, but Sam reiterated that the Cybertronian War was not his, and that they didn't need him. Optimus relayed his fear that it soon would be, and silently said that they needed him more than he realized.

[[Image:ROTFPrimevsMegsandScreamer.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Stick em' up!]]
Prime's fear soon came to pass, but in the last way he could imagine: the Decepticons had used the AllSpark shard to resurrect Megatron, who had learned that the knowledge of the AllSpark had been passed to Sam by a fragment Sam had touched, and soon captured him, Mikaela, and Sam's college roommate [[Leo Spitz]]. Heading to rescue the three humans, Optimus and Bumblebee ambushed the Decepticons in the [[Broadwater Metal Works|abandoned industrial complex]] where the teens were being held, just as [[Scalpel (ROTF)|Scalpel]] was about to perform fatal neurosurgery on Sam. Knocking Megatron and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] out of the building, Optimus managed to whisk Sam away from the plant. Optimus made it as far as the nearby forest when Megatron arrived. Going one-on-one with the Decepticon leader, Prime managed to hold his own, all the while trashing talking Megatron. Megatron then called for Starscream and [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]], who quickly arrived. Prime was forced to run interference between Megatron and Starscream, who pursued Sam.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|right||250px|''Frenzy is red,'' '' Rumble is blue,'' ''this poem doesn't rhyme,'' ''NOW GIVE ME YOUR FACE !'' ]]
As the battle raged, Megatron told Prime that the boy was the key to finding another energon source, then shattered his [[mouthplate]] and sent him flying back with a point blank shot from his [[fusion cannon]]. Megatron asked if the boy's life was greater than the future of their race, but Prime knew that he would never stop with a single life. Declaring that he'd take them all on, Optimus Prime unsheathed his [[Dual Energon Swords]] and fought a three-on-one fight against the Decepticons. Surprisingly, not only did he manage to hold his own, he was actually winning, managing to stab Megatron multiple times, slice off Starscream's arm and use it as a club, and rip apart Grindor's head. However, Megatron managed to stab his own sword through Optimus Prime's chest, following with a point blank shot through his injured back. Critically injured, Optimus implored the still-observing Sam to run. Although the rest of the Autobots soon arrived and drove off Megatron and Starscream, Optimus Prime was [[The_many_deaths_of_Optimus_Prime|dead]].

[[Image:ROTF Optimus death.jpg|thumb|left|250px|"You're so weak!" "Then why have I spent this whole fight kicking your a—"*BOOM*]]
Soon after, The Fallen made his presence known and demanded Sam Witwicky be turned over to him or the world would be destroyed. Galloway used this as a reason to shut down NEST and ordered the Autobots returned to Diego Garcia under guard, along with Prime's corpse (which Galloway callously denounced as a piece of scrap metal). Fortunately, Bumblebee, and [[Skids (ROTF)|the]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Twins]] managed to spirit Sam, Mikaela, and Leo away before The Fallen made his announcement. With help from their former enemy Seymour Simmons and the Decepticon-turned-Autobot [[Wheelie (ROTF)|Wheelie]], the group discovered that Sam's mind contained the Language of the Primes, to which group The Fallen had once belonged. The human/Autobot group managed to locate the Seeker [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]], who told them of how the [[Dynasty of Primes]] forged a [[star harvester]] to use a star's energy to replenish the AllSpark, and the [[Matrix of Leadership]], needed to activate the harvester, until they were betrayed by The Fallen, who tried to harvest [[Sun|Sol]] in defiance of the Primes' rule of the sanctity of life. Sam hit upon the idea to use the Matrix to restore Optimus to life, similar to how the Decepticons had used the AllSpark fragment to resurrect Megatron. Having been teleported to [[Egypt]] by Jetfire, the group managed to relay the information to Major Lennox and Sergeant Epps, who faked engine trouble over Petra, where the [[Tomb of the Primes]] was located. Unfortunately, the Matrix had turned to dust in the thousands of years since its entombment, but Sam still believed that it could be used to revive Optimus.

[[Image:ROTF movie Powered-Up Optimus Prime.jpg|thumb|right|250px|I'm bringing sexy back.]]
However, the Decepticons were still looking for the harvester and the Matrix needed to activate it. Sam was technically killed in the [[Operation: Firestorm|battle]], during which he communed with the six Primes from the tomb, who restored the Matrix. Jamming it in the fallen Autobot's chest, Sam used the Matrix to restore Optimus Prime to life. Unfortunately, The Fallen soon arrived and stole the Matrix. Having been fatally injured by [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], Jetfire offered his parts to Optimus, as only a Prime could defeat The Fallen, and snuffed out his own spark. After Ratchet and [[Jolt (ROTF)|Jolt]] finished attaching Jetfire's wings and thrusters to Prime's body, Optimus hurried to the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]], which had been constructed around the harvester, and damaged the machine before it could destroy Earth's sun.

[[Image:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Your face is insufficient. GIVE ME YOUR SPARK!]]
Optimus Prime then faced Megatron and the Fallen. This against the odds battle went far better for Optimus, as he used Megatron's own fusion cannon to shoot off half his face and his afterburners to send him through some ruins. Optimus then battled the Fallen, using his Energon Sword to slice through his face. The Fallen countered by ripping off his left wing and striking him with it, but Optimus managed to grab the Fallen's own spear and impale him with it. Telling the traitorous Prime he had picked the wrong planet, Optimus used the spear to rip off The Fallen's face plate. As The Fallen tried to flee, Optimus Prime punched through his abdomen and crushed his spark core, killing The Fallen and forcing Megatron and Starscream to retreat.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus Sam ship.JPG|thumb|right|250px|"So why did you want his face?" "Okay, I'll tell you."*cuts to credits*]]
On the return voyage home, Optimus thanked Sam for saving his life, as the boy thanked the Autobot leader for believing in him. Following this, Optimus Prime sent another transmission into space, detailing recent events so that the pasts of both races would be remembered, and also declaring that Humanity and the Autobots would face the future together. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{--}}

===Titan Magazines post-''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===

Following the later Fallen incident, Optimus continued operations against the Decepticons. [[Jolt (ROTF)|Jolt's]] over-enthusiasm began to muck that up, causing damage and getting NEST into trouble, despite Optimus' attempts to point this out to him. Optimus had to confine him to base. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.9|Culture Shock}}

[[Image:Titan10_Optimusgetsout.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]

Soon after that, he was drawn out into a trap by [[Trophy White]] and the [[Free Men]], who wanted to take his head as a trophy. Optimus worked out their plan and allowed himself to be captured by the deranged hunter, in order to keep the fight away from civilians. He pretended to be securely chained down and listened to White's sociopathic ravings, before (at the moment he considered funniest) breaking free and taking White prisoner. Shockingly, he found keeping the severed heads of animals as trophies to be ''bad'', and destroyed Trophy's trophies. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.10| Bring Me the Head of Optimus Prime}}

When there was a Decepticon breakout in [[South Africa]], Optimus ordered his men to let the prisoners flee: a battle outside [[World Cup|a major sports event]] would cause unacceptable civilian casualties. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.13|Inside Out!}} This led to a major collapse in Autobot popularity, and open battles with Decepticons in cities were just risking further alienation. In response, Prime created of a secret covert unit (even under NEST's radar) that would monitor the Decepticons, wait for windows of opportunity out of the public eye, and then hit hard and fast. While this worked, Optimus was left disquieted: the tactics he was using were too akin to the Decepticons, and a fine line was being walked. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.18|Shadow War}}

{{-}}

===Cyber Missions===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Eric Edwards]] (English), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin-American Spanish)

[[Image:CyberMissions1 Optimus.jpg|right|thumb|250px|]]
Optimus Prime recorded some information on the Autobot-Decepticon war for preservation in [[Vector Sigma]]. Bumblebee and Ironhide were reviewing it when [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] and [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] launched their attack. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 1}} The next morning, Optimus had been informed of the attack and Soundwave's capture, and he ordered Ironhide to wait for reinforcements to assist in pursuing Bludgeon. Bludgeon made that difficult for Ironhide. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 2}} Later, Optimus contacted Ratchet to inform him that [[Lockdown (ROTF)|Lockdown]] was causing chaos in [[Mission City]], and he reminded the Autobot medic to be careful. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 3}}

He and Sideswipe tracked Megatron to a disused factory, only to lose the scent. Megatron, having cloaked his spark signature, jumped out of hiding to attack them, and Optimus used his swords to attack the Decepticon. An appeal for Megatron to surrender was answered by a blast from Megatron's cannon bringing the roof down on the two Autobots, and the Decepticon escaped. Optimus promised that Megatron would no longer be able to hide. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 4}}

When Ironhide went missing after the incident with Bludgeon, Optimus searched for him, and Bumblebee revealed he was last near a cave with a load of [[Energon (fuel)|Energon]]. That same cave happened to be where [[Mindwipe (ROTF)|Mindwipe]] was hiding. As Optimus went to rescue his friend, Mindwipe tried to hypnotize the Autobot leader, but Optimus was able to resist the hypnosis and defeat Mindwipe, leaving a confused Ironhide to wonder what was going on. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 5}}

Reports of [[Smolder]] attacking a building in [[Scramble City (city)|Scramble City]] resulted in Optimus dispatching Bumblebee and Ratchet to investigate. He filled them in on the situation en route. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 9}} During another mission, Optimus warned Sideswipe and Ratchet that they were being tracked, moments before the pair were attacked by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and Mindwipe. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 10}}

Bumblebee reported to Optimus that he'd managed to pinpoint the location where Megatron and Starscream were meeting, leading Optimus to confront the two Decepticons in an Arctic region. When Megatron expressed surprise that he'd come to fight them without backup, Optimus assured him that the Autobots were never far from their leader's side. While Starscream went to attack the others, Optimus and Megatron continued to fight, with Optimus emerging the eventual victor. As Megatron tried to goad him into finishing the fight, Optimus announced that the Autobots protected all sentient life, and that included the Decepticons. He subsequently allowed Megatron to flee. {{storylink|Cyber Missions 12}}

{{quote|By showing even one such as him the power of mercy, Megatron might realize that we'll never give up, no matter the cost.|Optimus Prime|"Cyber Missions 12"}}

Prime set up an elaborate trap involving a hologram of Soundwave to lure the Decepticons to a spot in the wilderness. The ploy worked, and Optimus attacked Megatron while his men attacked Megatron's troops. At one point during the battle, Megatron threw a train car at him, and he simply somersaulted along its length. Though Megatron boasted that the Decepticons would win through sheer determination, Optimus knocked him to the ground and gave a speech about building alliances, which was the cue for the [[human]]s to turn up in force and surround the Decepticons. Optimus informed Megatron that he could either leave the planet peacefully or be destroyed. Once the rest of the Decepticons fled, Megatron delivered a final threat before taking off. Prime celebrated with another speech, before admiring the huge Autobot [[insignia]] Bumblebee had stomped into the ground. {{storylink|Decepticons Attack}}

===Transformers Annual 2011===
An alert of Decepticon activity in [[Tokyo]] sent Optimus, Ironhide, Ratchet and Sideswipe to investigate. He intervened in Sideswipe and Barricade's battle to lift the Decepticon into the air, only to find himself under attack by Grindor. Ordering Sideswipe and Ratchet to cover him, Optimus scaled the side of a nearby office block so he could punch the helicopter out of the air. Standing over the two Decepticons, Optimus was surprised when they informed him that they were simply providing a diversion. Optimus realised that Sam was in danger, and rushed back to America in time to find Starscream attempting to abduct the boy. He jumped on Starscream's back, causing the Decepticon to flee and saving Sam from a kidnapping. {{storylink|Sam in Danger}}

===IDW Post ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics===
[[Image:Nefarious2 Prime on Soundwave.jpg|thumb|left|350px]]
Lennox reported to Optimus via videolink on the halting of [[Alice]]'s rampage. Optimus mentioned that they should be more aggressive in tracking down Decepticons, but Lennox reminded him that NEST was low on resources. They decided on some "improvisations" in the form of newly-arrived Autobots. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 1|Nefarious #1}} Optimus was witness to Galloway balling out Lennox over the battle at [[Kingdom Petrochemicals]], but kept quiet. Afterwards, Lennox and Optimus discussed the [[Initiative|mysterious humans]] who had been seen at the petrochemical plant. When [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] and [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]] came under attack from [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]], Optimus parachuted in and bested Soundwave. Soundwave attempted to persuade Prime to let him go, but Prime decided that instead they would take him into NEST custody for interrogation. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 2|Nefarious #2}}

Optimus oversaw the preparations of the facilities for holding Soundwave, rather than face having to tell Major Lennox what they'd done. He was only delaying the inevitable, and Lennox was even more annoyed when the plane carrying Soundwave was shot down. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 3|Nefarious #3}} When NEST received a distress call from Galloway, who was under attack from [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], Optimus sent [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] to assist. He also reminded Ironhide that just because the man was a "pain in the aft" didn't mean they could avoid helping him. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 4|Nefarious #4}}

[[Image:Nefarious5 Prime already too late.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"They've already put the bomp in the bomp-a-bomp-a-bomp"]]
Soundwave led the Autobots to the location of the [[Initiative]] base in [[California]], but the base was gone. Despite this, Optimus still trusted Soundwave as he believe the organization they faced had access to Cybertronian technology. Soundwave pinpointed the mobile base as being in [[Utah]], so the Autobots headed there. Part way, Optimus felt the power of something very like the [[AllSpark]] being used and began to realize what they were up against. They reached Utah and began an assault on the [[Initiative base]], only to find themselves facing brainwashed Transformers. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 5|Nefarious #5}}

As the battle continued, Optimus tried to call out for their foe to surrender the AllSpark they possessed, however [[Carter Newell]], head of the Initiative, responded by trying to use the artifact to terminate all Cybertronian life. An injury courtesy of [[Reedman]] aborted the attempt, and Newell tried to flee. Optimus was forced to ram the truck he was in to obtain the AllSpark, but realized the only way to halt the rapidly-destabilizing Cube was to
feed it his own [[spark]]. Luckily that turned out to be unnecessary, as [[Fortress (ROTF)|Fortress]] took the AllSpark from him and carried it into space, where it exploded. Optimus later noted that the Initiative data banks had been [[Soundwave (ROTF)|picked clean]] and wondered if anyone else could make an attempt to recreate the AllSpark. {{storylink|Nefarious issue 6|Nefarious #6}}

{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 1|Rising Storm #1}}{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 2|Rising Storm #2}}{{storylink|Rising Storm issue 3|Rising Storm #3}}
{{-}}

===''Dark of the Moon'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English), [[Blas Garcia]] (Latin American-Spanish)
{{comingsoon|unreleased|when=July 29, 2011}}
{{storylink|Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon}}
{{--}}

==Games==
===Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots}}

===''Transformers'' (Glu)===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers (Glu)}}

===''Transformers'' - The Game===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC/Wii/PS2====
====Autobot campaign====
Optimus Prime provided intelligence and missions to Bumblebee in his search for the AllSpark. Eventually, the clues led the Autobot to Sam Witwicky. After saving Sam from Barricade, Bumblebee finally completed preparations for the Autobots to arrive on Earth.

Once on Earth, and having informed the two teenagers of their mission, Prime and the Autobots were discovered by Sector Seven. Optimus sent Jazz on a high-speed <strike>destruction</strike> distraction mission, then sent Ironhide to rescue Jazz from a double-threat posed by the government agents and various Decepticon scouts.

When Bumblebee was captured, Optimus Prime transformed and chased the helicopter which from which the small Autobot was tied. After a lengthy pursuit, Optimus managed to catch the net, only to be thrown off by another Cybertronian [[transition form|meteor]]. As Bumblebee was carried away, Optimus promised he would not fail him again. Jazz informed him that the meteor was not an Autobot and Optimus confronted the new threat, who turned out to be the Decepticon triplechanger [[Shockwave (Movie)|Shockwave]]. The two battled it out across [[Tranquility]] before Optimus finally destroyed him, and in doing so, overheard [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s transmission revealing the location of the AllSpark.

Optimus then returned to an intel role as he guided Bumblebee in his mission to retrieve the AllSpark from Hoover Dam. Unfortunately, the Decepticons managed to free Megatron, leading to the final battle in Mission City.

As the Autobots engaged in an all-out urban war with the Decepticons to protect Sam and the AllSpark, things seemed to take a turn for the worse as Megatron finally arrived. But before the Decepticon leader could claim the Cube, Optimus Prime attacked.

The two leaders duked it out until Megatron was finally on the ground, seemingly devoid of life. Optimus knelt to take the AllSpark as Sam handed it to him, but Megatron suddenly awoke, leaping at the Autobot with his chain-flail out, and making one last attempt at defeating his adversary. Optimus grabbed the chain, pulling Megatron in closer, and with the AllSpark clutched in his fist, delivered a punch through Megatron's spark. As Megatron died Optimus reflected on the losses and rewards of this battle, as the Autobots have a new home. Optimus planned to guard the humans in secret, "For freedom is the right of all sentient beings." {{storylink|Transformers The Game (console)|Transformers The Game}}

====Decepticon campaign====
After all the Autobots we´re killed on Mission City, Sam and Mikaela informed the deaths to Prime, Optimus decided to defeat Megatron, In the final battle, Optimus Prime was beaten to the ground, and as he desperately crawled for the AllSpark, Megatron smashed his head with his flail, before using the Cube to destroy humanity. {{storylink|Transformers The Game (console)|Transformers The Game}}

====''Transformers: Autobots''====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Arriving late on Earth, Optimus meets up with the other Autobots to give further commands to his troops. [[Create-A-Bot (Autobot)|Create-A-Bot]], the new rookie, is eager to help in the cause, but Optimus tells him to sit back while the grown-ups take care of business. Getting fed up with the bureaucracy, Create-A-Bot finally defies orders and completes a mission against Optimus's counsel. After nearly getting himself and the other Autobots killed, Create-A-Bot apologizes to Optimus personally. Taking pity on the newcomer, Optimus lets him off with a stern warning, and they move out together to face Megatron. During the fight, Create-A-Bot sacrifices himself to save his commander. Megatron defeated, Optimus commends the young Autobot as a war hero, and sends out an interstellar message to any Cybertronians living among the stars. {{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Autobots}}

====''Transformers: Decepticons''====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]]

Landing on Earth, Optimus Prime quickly joins the other Autobots to attempt to stop the Decepticons. Prime didn't appear on the battlefield until Megatron himself was released and Starscream escaped with the AllSpark. He stepped in to thwart the maniacal leader of the Decepticons, but alas, was struck down, left in the streets while Megatron gave chase to his traitorous second-in-command. {{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Decepticons}}

====''Transformers: The Game'' (PSP)====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English)
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Transformers The Game (PSP)}}

===Datafile Decoder===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Datafile Decoder}}

===AllSpark Wars===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|AllSpark Wars}}

===Allspark Highway===
The Autobots needed to race the Allspark to safety, and Optimus Prime teamed with his fellow Autobots to drive through the Decepticon defenses and get their prize to a secure location. {{storylink|Allspark Highway}}

===Autobot Stronghold===
The Decepticons were invading an Autobot stronghold in the city, and Optimus Prime and the Autobots placed themselves at key positions to defend it from attack. {{storylink|Autobot Stronghold}}

===Transformers: Battle for the Matrix===

{{Note|Battle for the Matrix is a simplified retelling of the events of [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]. It can be played from the perspective of either Bumblebee or Optimus Prime.}}
[[Image:Optimusprime battleforthematrix.jpg|thumb|left|200px]]
{{storylink|Transformers: Battle for the Matrix}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - The Game''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Peter Cullen]] (English) [[Dariusz Odija]] (Polish)
====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC====
=====Autobot campaign=====
[[Image:ROTF game Optimus Prime.jpg|thumb|right|300px|One shall stand, one sha— oh, you know the drill.]]
Optimus Prime served as the Autobots all around fighter. Weapons wise, he possessed dual laser rifles and dual shell cannons. In melee combat, he possessed [[Dual Energon Swords|Dual Energy Swords]] in each hand. Finally, with his valiant leader ability, he could generate a shield around himself which would prevent his energy from dropping past 1%.

After overseeing Ironhide's defeat of [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] and Ratchet's rescue of Ironhide, Optimus Prime took to the field when a previously unknown Decepticon named [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]] began attacking the [[Shanghai]] waterfront. Optimus was finally able to defeat him, but Demolishor gave a single warning before he was killed: "The Fallen shall rise again". Optimus and the Autobots were at a loss as to what he meant. Back in the United States, Sam Witwicky gave Mikaela Banes a fragment of the AllSpark that he had discovered, which the Decepticons soon sought. Prime dispatched Bumblebee to rescue her. Following this, the Decepticons launched a raid on the city's oil refinery, where Ratchet rescued several engineers. Finally, Ironhide escorted a NEST team to safety in the city's canals.

Their victories were short lived. The Decepticons soon learned about the AllSpark shard on Diego Garcia, stealing it to revive Megatron. Although [[Breakaway (ROTF)|Breakaway]] managed to save the fleet, Megatron was reborn. He soon made an attack on Sam, trying to access information in his mind downloaded from the AllSpark. Bumblebee managed to rescue him. In light of these attacks, Optimus decided to give NEST the [[Axiom Gun]] to better defend themselves against the Decepticons. The escort came under Decepticon assault, but Prime was able to beat back the attackers and deliver the Axiom Gun to NEST. Soon afterwards, Bumblebee escorted Sam to meet with [[Seymour Simmons]], who told him of Jetfire, who then took the boy to Egypt.

While there, Jetfire explained what was going on: Eons ago, Optimus's ancestors, the [[Thirteen original Transformers|13 founders]] of the [[Dynasty of Primes]], built a star harvester to convert the energy of the sun into [[Energon (fuel)|Energon]]. When they discovered the humans, they upheld their rule of the sanctity of life, but one of the Primes defied the rule and murdered his twelve brothers. This Prime was known as The Fallen, but the star harvester was hidden from him. While Sam made inquires to the [[Tomb of the Primes|Tomb of the Twelve]], Megatron and Starscream arrived in an attempt to learn the harvester's location and kill Sam. Optimus Prime was able to defeat both Decepticons with Jetfire's help, but Jetfire was stabbed in the back by Megatron. Dying, Jetfire offered his parts to Optimus, as only a Prime could defeat The Fallen.

Finding the harvester at the [[Great Pyramid of Giza]], Optimus challenged The Fallen. Despite The Fallen's powerful command of telekinesis and pyrokinesis, Optimus Prime was able to get past his defenses and kill The Fallen by stabbing him through the face. On the return trip home, Sam expressed gratitude at seeing the sunrise, and told Optimus he would have to trust him on it. Optimus Prime replied that he had always trusted Sam, and always would. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

=====Decepticon campaign=====
When the revenant Megatron and the Decepticons rampaged across the United States of America, Optimus Prime faced him in a major city on the East Coast. The two leaders engaged in a titanic struggle that shook the city, but despite being aided by many Autobot drone units, Optimus was seemingly destroyed. However, much later, Optimus Prime reappeared when Megatron's master, The Fallen, activated the Star Harvester to drain Earth's Sun. The Autobot leader revealed that The Fallen's promise to make Megatron a Prime was a lie, as Primes were born, not made. When Megatron demanded his reward, The Fallen reneged on his promise. As the master and disciple of evil began to fight, Optimus left to find a way to disable the Harvester. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}
{{-}}

===Transformers Battle Universe===
At the edge of time, when the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] needed a new host, Optimus Prime was among several warriors (and [[Optimus Prime|Prime]]s) summoned from the multiverse to battle for control of the prize. {{storylink|Transformers Battle Universe}}

===Starscream Showdown===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Starscream Showdown}}

===Transformers RPMs: Devastator's Demise===
[[Image:Devastatorsdemise optimus.jpg|left|thumb|200px]]
Optimus Prime is both fast and sturdy. His firepower blows obstacles to smithereens.

In order to defeat [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]], Bumblebee, Optimus and Ironhide must drive through Cairo and avoid obstacles.{{storylink|Transformers RPMs: Devastator's Demise}}
{{-}}

===Hunt for the Decepticons===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{storylink|Hunt for the Decepticons}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers: Dark of the Moon - The Game''===
====(Xbox 360/PS3)====

{{comingsoon}}

==Commercial appearances==
* As part of the hype buildup to the movie's release, Optimus Prime made a brief cameo at the 2007 MTV Movie Awards, interacting with host Sarah Silverman. The scene spliced Silverman into pre-existing movie footage, but featured new dialogue recorded for the event by Peter Cullen. Prime heavily hinted that he wanted to present an award, but was rejected for a regular MTV fan.

* According to a tie-in advertisement for [[Burger King]], Prime likes his Whoppers with no onions, no cheese, extra pickles, with a side of ????. However, due to a cruel twist of fate, he can never enjoy the sweet taste of beefy victory (and all because he needed a driver for him to receive his order). He saved the world from the Decepticons, and still he can't even have it his way? Where's the justice?

* Optimus Prime (in truck mode) made an appearance at [[BotCon 2007]], alongside the [[Sector Seven Mobile Command Unit]]. He was available for pictures all weekend. He made a second appearance at [[BotCon 2009]].

* Optimus threw a trailer during his appearance on an [[M&M's]] commercial.

* On [[July 6]]th 2009, Optimus appeared on ''The Late Show With David Letterman'' to declare the "Top Ten Things That Sound Cool When Said By A Giant Robot". Optimus said it was nice to be there, although David was ''clearly'' concerned by having an 28-feet tall robot in the studio because of a bad history of robots messing up the place, and during the presentation Letterman decided there was something about Prime he didn't like. Anyway, the top ten was:
<ol>
<li value="10">"Jergens lotion leaves my hands silky smooth."</li>
<li value="9">"Do you have these khakis in size 114?"</li>
<li value="8">"My perfect night involves a pint of Haagen-Dazs and season three of ''Sex and the City''."</li>
<li value="7">"Man do I love me some 'taters."</li>
<li value="6">"It was so hot in Central Park, I saw a squirrel rubbing sunblock on his nuts."</li>
<li value="5">"You seemed a little pitchy, dawg."</li>
<li value="4">"Brody Jenner has added you as a friend on Facebook."</li>
<li value="3">"Live from New York, it's Saturday night."</li>
<li value="2">"My parents wanted me to be a Rabbi."</li>
<li value="1">"All the slammin' shorties in the house say 'Yeah'."<ref>[http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/991507.phtml Lateshow CBS archive video of Optimus's guest spot.]</ref></li>
</ol>

* To promote the DVD and Blu-ray release of ''Revenge of the Fallen'', Paramount set up a website where US fans could request Optimus call up their friends, warning them of Starscream's attempts to recruit human civilian allies.

*In the Discovery Channel promo, "The World Is Just Awesome," Optimus made a brief cameo, singing the words "boom-de-ya-da, boom-de-ya-da."<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jZzBEKIMc Discovery commercial] on YouTube.</ref>

*Prime (voiced by Cullen, but not animated by ILM) appeared to promote a NASA competition to vote for videos made by children about NASA's impact on commonplace technology.<ref>[http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/optimus/ NASA Optimus Prime]</ref>

*Optimus appeared in truck mode at [[Toy Fair 2011]]. He got a $115 parking ticket.<ref>[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357327/Transformers-truck-gets-parking-ticket-toy-fair.html ''Daily Mail'' article on Prime's fine.]</ref>

==Toys==
{{main|Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys}}

==Merchandise==
:''Main article: [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Merchandise|Merchandise]]''

==Notes==
[[Image:moviecullen.jpg|right|150px|thumb|GIVE ME MY FACE]]

[[Image:Movie Primetruck before.jpg|right|150px|thumb|8:30 pm: "Trick My Truck". Tonight's guest: [[Alpha Trion (disambiguation)|Alpha Trion]].]]
* When Optimus' design was first revealed, [[GEEWUN|many fans of the Generation 1 series objected to the flames seen on Prime's body]]. When asked in an interview why he put the flames on, [[Michael Bay]] claimed he liked them because it was "cool". It was later revealed on a special featurette on the DVD that the flames were added because, apparently, red is not very good to film on camera, so Bay chose a blue truck but used the flames so that when Optimus transformed, the layout would result in maintaining his iconic red chest.

* The announcement of [[Peter Cullen]] as Prime's voice actor in the movie is credited by some fans as alleviating many fan tensions about the movie. Not all tensions, mind you, as there are some who just will never be satisfied, but it put the fans in a good mood.

* Prime's ''Rise of the Chevy Autobots'' codename, "10-22", is [http://www.truckercountry.com/cb-terminology.html#10c CB radio slang] for "report in person to." As in "Bumblebee, 10-22 to 10-22." Cute, huh?

* [[TakaraTomy]] officially recognizes Optimus Prime's vehicle mode as a [http://www.kenworth.com/2100_vir_w900.asp Kenworth W900 truck], even though the vehicle used for filming was a modified Peterbilt 379, a different model from a different brand, although both are made by the PACCAR company.<ref>[http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=121424?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2.* Article at Edmunds.com on some of the vehicles used in the movie]</ref>
[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime truckrear.jpg|right|150px|thumb|]]

* Prime's truck mode is apparently intended to haul a flatbed trailer, based on the presence of the large silver "headache rack", a piece of optional equipment that protects the driver in case a flatbed load breaks free during braking. It is generally not installed on trucks hauling enclosed container trailers.

[[Image:Movie Prime Trucklogomistake.jpg|right|150px|thumb|In the darkness, a PA will misread "Truck A" as "Truck B", and there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth — Revelation 11:7.]]

* When Optimus Prime scans a truck for his new body, the passing truck has what appears to be an Autobot sigil on its grill, but the actual truck that Prime turns into at the end of the scene has a much wider, flatter symbol on the grill, which looks rather more like that of Peterbilt. Then, Prime has an Autobot sigil on his grill while driving to meet the other Autobots.

* According to the free trading cards from the Boston Globe, Optimus is 28 feet tall, weighs 4.3 metric tons, and his primary weapon is an [[Ion blaster|ion blaster]]. (Considering Optimus's height, however, this weight would seem implausible.)

* In the Japanese dub of the movie, he is given his original western name of Optimus Prime rather than the Japanese equivalent, Convoy. Just as Peter Cullen voiced Prime in the English version of the film, Tesshō Genda (the voice of G1 Convoy) reprised his role for the Japanese dub.

[[Image:MBMovieOptimusAttacks.jpg|thumb|250px|Maybe it's, uh, [[jet judo]].]]

*The [[Milton Bradley]] [[Transformers Battling Card Game]] depicts Prime with a unique a magnetic grapple attack, fired from the side of his arm. It also declares his forearm gun to be a chain gun (it's an ion blaster in other sources), and has him using a "judo kick", which... while it may not be out of the realm of plausibility for Prime to have learned an Earth martial art, judo does not actually '''use''' kicks, being focused on throwing moves. Oops.

* The Optimus Prime computer generated model consisted of 10,108 individual parts, 1,830,898 polygons, 27,744 rig nodes, and 2336 texture maps. The volume of all pieces combined came to 5445 cubic feet.<ref>Robertson, Barbara (2007). Heavy Metal. ''Computer Graphics, 30''(7), 12-17.</ref>

* It said in the Autobots game in the DS, Prime's father was killed by Megatron. However, since it is also widely known that Prime and Megatron were brothers, Megatron killed his own dad. Not that this is surprising, though.

* In Titan Magazines ''Transformers'' comics, Optimus's Cybertronian robot mode is exactly like his Earth mode, but with different weapons, yet his Cybertronian mode is a mostly silver protoform—with no truck windows. Odd.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus trailer super mode.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"One shall be scrawny...One shall be brawny"]]
* Optimus was supposed to combine with a trailer for ''Revenge of the Fallen'', something for which [[Ben Procter]] and [[Josh Nizzi]] drew up designs. In the end, Nizzi designed the combination with Jetfire.

* This incarnation of Optimus Prime doesn't do the best burials in the world, either—giving what can at best be described as a half-hearted goodbye to his [[Jazz (Movie)|first lieutenant]] at the end of the first movie, and unceremoniously dumping the parts of [[Jetfire (ROTF)|the converted Decepticon who had given him the power to defeat the Fallen]] at the conclusion of the second film. This is offset by how he's treated by humans when ''he'' dies.

* Of the Optimus Primes in all the existing continuities, this one is probably the most aggressive incarnation. Additionally, he seems obsessed with destroying the heads of his opponents. In ''[[Transformers (2007)|Transformers]]'', Prime [[Decapitation|decapitates]] [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]] and tries pulling off [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'s head. In ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of The Fallen]]'', Optimus severely damages [[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]]'s head before putting the lethal bullet in it, he tries pulling off [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream's]] head with his foot, ''rips apart'' [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor's]] head with hooks, shoots off part of Megatron's face, and ''rips off'' [[The Fallen]]'s face before killing him. (He also slices or tears off Megatron, Starscream and Grindor's arms in the second film, but this was not immortalized with a classic one liner.) Maybe he took Jazz's death hard after all?

* According to [[TakaraTomy]] marketing director [[Masahiko Yamazaki]], for the Japanese dub of ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Transformers Animated]]'', the [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus]] featured in that show would become a young version of this one. However, nothing in the show-itself has happened to support his claims.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Optimus Prime''' (オプティマス・プライム ''Oputimasu Puraimu'')
*''Cantonese:'' '''O Baak Man''' (Hong Kong, 柯柏文)
*''Hungarian:'' '''Optimusz Fővezér''' ("Prime Leader Optimus")
*''Indonesian:'' '''Optimis Prima'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Kē Bó Wén''' (Taiwan, 柯博文), '''Qíng Tīan Zhù''' (China, 擎天柱, "Pillar that Supports the Sky")
*''Ukrainian:'' '''Optimus Naikrashchiy''' (Оптимус Наiкращий, "Optimus the Best")

{{--}}

==References==
<references />

==External links==
* [http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/ProtoformOptimusPrime/optimusprime.htm Optimus Prime at TFU.info]
* [http://www.seibertron.com/toys/index.php?f_series=40&f_name=optimus&f_type=exact&Submit=Search Galleries of various different Optimus Prime toys from the Movie]

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Autobots]]
[[Category:Convention guests]]
[[Category:Cyber Missions characters]]
[[Category:Dark of the Moon Autobots]]
[[Category:Hall of Fame]]
[[Category:Live-action film ARG characters]]
[[Category:Movie Autobots]]
[[Category:NEST]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Autobots]]
[[Category:Rulers of Cybertron]]

Dual Energon Swords

2011-05-27T12:31:21Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:ROTF Prime blades.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Can we say "Mother!"]]
Now, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] may thoroughly believe his credo of "freedom is the right of all sentient beings", but he tends to revoke that in the case of the [[Decepticon]]s. Thus, when entering combat, Prime will use his [[ion blaster]], his [[barrage cannon]], his [[Energon Hooks]], and his '''Dual Energon Swords'''<ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/en_US/discover/Battle-Bios.cfm Battle Bios at Hasbro.com]</ref> to their fullest effect. Possessing one on each arm, he charges the swords, also known as '''battle blades'''<ref name="ROTFMU"> [[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</ref>, via a quantum electric generator with a max yield of one thousand degrees Celsius and a burn rate of five kilojoules per second.<ref name="ROTFMU"/>

This makes it a pretty handy weapon. Especially if you have a preference for [[decapitation|going after your enemy's face]].

==Fiction==

===Transformers (2007) movie===
[[Image:Movie2007 Prime sword.jpg|thumb|left|250px|If in the first movie he had one, and in the second movie he had two, then in the third movie, he...ah...]]
While escorting the [[AllSpark (Movie)|All Spark]] to [[Mission City]], Prime and the [[Autobot]]s were set upon by the Decepticons [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] and [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]], the latter of whom went to robot mode on the freeway to confront the Autobots. [[Transformation|Transforming]] himself, Optimus engaged Bonecrusher in a short but fierce battle, with the [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]] punching Bonecrusher off an overpass with sufficient force to knock out one of his optics. Partially blind and more enraged than usual, Bonecrusher began wildly swinging his tail claw, but Optimus ducked behind a support pole and unsheathed his right Energon Sword. Using it to full effect, Optimus sliced off Bonecrusher's arm and then jammed the sword through the Decepticon's neck, decapitating him. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)|Transformers}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie===
[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''Roses are red'' ''violets are blue'' ''This poem doesn't rhyme'' '''NOW GIVE ME YOUR FACE!''']]
While trying to rescue [[Sam Witwicky]] from the Decepticons, Optimus was forced into a three-on-one battle against [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], and [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]]. After having his mouth plate shattered, Optimus unsheathed the Dual Energon Swords, slicing and dicing his would-be destroyers Starscream and Grindor, repeatedly impaling the former and relieving the latter Decepticon of his right arm, rotors, and ribs using his swords before throwing the right blade into his chest, and removing his head using a set of hooks.

Later, after Optimus Prime was resurrected by [[Matrix of Leadership]] and combined with the parts of [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]], he worked his way through the floating ring of debris surrounding the [[star harvester]] to reach Megatron and [[The Fallen]]. The battle between them was short, with Optimus slicing off Megatron's [[fusion cannon]] arm with his remaining Energon Sword before sending him flying through some ruins, and ended with Optimus slicing off The Fallen's chin (and several fingers) with the blade and proceeding to ''tear off his face'' with The Fallen's own staff. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===Transformers (2007)===
====Leader class toys====
[[Image:Movie Leader OptimusPrimeBattleMode.jpg|right|300px|thumb|]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' ("Premium Series" Leader Class, 2008)
*'''Optimus Prime Battle Mode''' (Leader Class, 2008)

:The first Movie Optimus Prime ''toy'' to feature the Energon Sword was the [[Hasbro]] "Premium" release of [[Size class|Leader class]] Optimus Prime and [[TakaraTomy]]'s Optimus Prime Battle Mode, both of which were extensive [[redeco]]s and minor [[retool]]s in an attempt for greater accuracy. Additionally, the [[Ion blaster]] was replaced by the Energon Sword (here called the "energy sword"), which, through the [[Automorph]]ing [[gimmick]], flips from Optimus's forearm to cover his fist, after which the blade can be slid out of his scabbard. Due to its tacked-on nature, the design of the sword and the mechanism for its deployment aren't very accurate to the depiction in the movie.

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Leader_Class_toys|the Leader class Transformers (2007) section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''
{{-}}

===Revenge of the Fallen===
====Leader class toys====
[[Image:ROTF Leader OptimusPrime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|I will not stop telling you that I am Optimus Prime. Ever!]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Leader, 2009)
*'''Optimus Prime Black Version''' (Leader, 2009)
*'''Buster Optimus Prime''' (Leader, 2009)

:By the time ''Revenge of the Fallen'' rolled around, Hasbro/TakaraTomy had integrated the Energon Swords into Optimus Prime's arm design, resulting in a much more accurate depiction of the weapons. Triggered by a switch on the inner sides of his forearms, two Energon Swords flip out of the outer sides of his arms.

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Leader_Class_toys_2|the Leader class Revenge of the Fallen section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''
{{-}}

====Voyager class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Voyager_JetPowerOptimusPrime_toy.jpg|thumb|301px|Use your friends wisely.]]
*'''Jet Power Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)

:The main drawcard of this extensive repaint of the Voyager class Optimus Prime toy from the 2007 ''Transformers'' toyline is the [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]] armour one can attach to him, but he also features a Energon Sword one can attach to his left arm whilst combined with the Jetfire parts.

{{canceledtoy}}

{{-}}

====Fast Action Battlers====
[[Image:ROTF FAB OptimusPrime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Two blades means ''twice'' the [[Decapitation|fun]]!]]
*'''Double Blade Optimus Prime''' (Fast Action Battler, 2009)
*'''Power Armor Optimus Prime''' (Fast Action Battler, 2010)

:[[Fast Action Battlers]] ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Double Blade Optimus Prime also had Dual Energon Swords, which, like the 2007 Leader class toy, flipped over from his forearms to cover his hands.
{{-}}

====Robot Replicas====
[[Image:ROTF RobotReplicas OptimusPrime.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Finally, he's got the sword! Now where's the other one?]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Robot Replica, 2009)
:[[Robot Replicas]] ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Optimus Prime had the Energon Sword molded onto his right arm.
{{-}}

===Transformers (2010)===
====Voyager class toys====
[[Image:TF2010_ROTF_Voy_BattleBladesOptimusPrime.jpg|thumb|300px|]]
*'''Battle Blades Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)

:Battle Blades Optimus Prime, an all-new Voyager class mold in the ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers'' (2010)]] toyline, and like the larger Leader class figure from the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' line, features two snap-out Energon Swords.

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===Revenge of the Fallen===
*'''Optimus Prime Statuette''' (2010)

:Released by [[PopBox Collectibles]], this rather expensive, 12-inch-tall polystone statue of Optimus Prime features two sets of swappable hands and Energon Swords.
{{-}}

===Robot Heroes===
[[Image:Rhscorpprime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|He's cute as he violently decapitates [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|rage-filled mechanoids]].]]
*'''Optimus Prime vs. Scorponok''' (2007)

: Packaged with ''[[Robot Heroes]]'' [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], this Optimus Prime figurine was the very first Movie Optimus Prime piece of merchandise to feature the Energon Sword seen in the 2007 ''Transformers'' movie.
{{-}}

[[Image:Robotheroesoptimusblackout.jpg|right|thumb|300px|After two years, Blackout's still trying to purple nurple him.]]
*'''Optimus Prime & Blackout''' (2009)

:The first ''Revenge of the Fallen'' ''Robot Heroes'' Optimus Prime was an all-new sculpt, featuring two Energon Swords.
{{-}}

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Robot_Heroes|the Robot heroes section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''

==Notes==
*The inclusion of the Energon Sword in the 2007 ''Transformers'' movie was made after Hasbro/TakaraTomy's toy designs had been locked down, which is why the Optimus Prime toys released during the movie's run lacked the prominently featured melee weapon.
*Optimus' hand is visible underneath his sword when he begins slicing off The Fallen's face, making his toys show-accurate in this respect.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Blades]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]

Dual Energon Swords

2011-05-27T12:30:48Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:ROTF Prime blades.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Can we say "Mother!"]]
Now, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] may thoroughly believe his credo of "freedom is the right of all sentient beings", but he tends to revoke that in the case of the [[Decepticon]]s. Thus, when entering combat, Prime will use his [[ion blaster]], his [[barrage cannon]], his [[energon hooks]], and his '''Dual Energon Swords'''<ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/en_US/discover/Battle-Bios.cfm Battle Bios at Hasbro.com]</ref> to their fullest effect. Possessing one on each arm, he charges the swords, also known as '''battle blades'''<ref name="ROTFMU"> [[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</ref>, via a quantum electric generator with a max yield of one thousand degrees Celsius and a burn rate of five kilojoules per second.<ref name="ROTFMU"/>

This makes it a pretty handy weapon. Especially if you have a preference for [[decapitation|going after your enemy's face]].

==Fiction==

===Transformers (2007) movie===
[[Image:Movie2007 Prime sword.jpg|thumb|left|250px|If in the first movie he had one, and in the second movie he had two, then in the third movie, he...ah...]]
While escorting the [[AllSpark (Movie)|All Spark]] to [[Mission City]], Prime and the [[Autobot]]s were set upon by the Decepticons [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] and [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]], the latter of whom went to robot mode on the freeway to confront the Autobots. [[Transformation|Transforming]] himself, Optimus engaged Bonecrusher in a short but fierce battle, with the [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]] punching Bonecrusher off an overpass with sufficient force to knock out one of his optics. Partially blind and more enraged than usual, Bonecrusher began wildly swinging his tail claw, but Optimus ducked behind a support pole and unsheathed his right Energon Sword. Using it to full effect, Optimus sliced off Bonecrusher's arm and then jammed the sword through the Decepticon's neck, decapitating him. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)|Transformers}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie===
[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|right|250px|''Roses are red'' ''violets are blue'' ''This poem doesn't rhyme'' '''NOW GIVE ME YOUR FACE!''']]
While trying to rescue [[Sam Witwicky]] from the Decepticons, Optimus was forced into a three-on-one battle against [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], and [[Grindor (ROTF)|Grindor]]. After having his mouth plate shattered, Optimus unsheathed the Dual Energon Swords, slicing and dicing his would-be destroyers Starscream and Grindor, repeatedly impaling the former and relieving the latter Decepticon of his right arm, rotors, and ribs using his swords before throwing the right blade into his chest, and removing his head using a set of hooks.

Later, after Optimus Prime was resurrected by [[Matrix of Leadership]] and combined with the parts of [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]], he worked his way through the floating ring of debris surrounding the [[star harvester]] to reach Megatron and [[The Fallen]]. The battle between them was short, with Optimus slicing off Megatron's [[fusion cannon]] arm with his remaining Energon Sword before sending him flying through some ruins, and ended with Optimus slicing off The Fallen's chin (and several fingers) with the blade and proceeding to ''tear off his face'' with The Fallen's own staff. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===Transformers (2007)===
====Leader class toys====
[[Image:Movie Leader OptimusPrimeBattleMode.jpg|right|300px|thumb|]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' ("Premium Series" Leader Class, 2008)
*'''Optimus Prime Battle Mode''' (Leader Class, 2008)

:The first Movie Optimus Prime ''toy'' to feature the Energon Sword was the [[Hasbro]] "Premium" release of [[Size class|Leader class]] Optimus Prime and [[TakaraTomy]]'s Optimus Prime Battle Mode, both of which were extensive [[redeco]]s and minor [[retool]]s in an attempt for greater accuracy. Additionally, the [[Ion blaster]] was replaced by the Energon Sword (here called the "energy sword"), which, through the [[Automorph]]ing [[gimmick]], flips from Optimus's forearm to cover his fist, after which the blade can be slid out of his scabbard. Due to its tacked-on nature, the design of the sword and the mechanism for its deployment aren't very accurate to the depiction in the movie.

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Leader_Class_toys|the Leader class Transformers (2007) section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''
{{-}}

===Revenge of the Fallen===
====Leader class toys====
[[Image:ROTF Leader OptimusPrime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|I will not stop telling you that I am Optimus Prime. Ever!]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Leader, 2009)
*'''Optimus Prime Black Version''' (Leader, 2009)
*'''Buster Optimus Prime''' (Leader, 2009)

:By the time ''Revenge of the Fallen'' rolled around, Hasbro/TakaraTomy had integrated the Energon Swords into Optimus Prime's arm design, resulting in a much more accurate depiction of the weapons. Triggered by a switch on the inner sides of his forearms, two Energon Swords flip out of the outer sides of his arms.

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Leader_Class_toys_2|the Leader class Revenge of the Fallen section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''
{{-}}

====Voyager class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Voyager_JetPowerOptimusPrime_toy.jpg|thumb|301px|Use your friends wisely.]]
*'''Jet Power Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)

:The main drawcard of this extensive repaint of the Voyager class Optimus Prime toy from the 2007 ''Transformers'' toyline is the [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]] armour one can attach to him, but he also features a Energon Sword one can attach to his left arm whilst combined with the Jetfire parts.

{{canceledtoy}}

{{-}}

====Fast Action Battlers====
[[Image:ROTF FAB OptimusPrime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Two blades means ''twice'' the [[Decapitation|fun]]!]]
*'''Double Blade Optimus Prime''' (Fast Action Battler, 2009)
*'''Power Armor Optimus Prime''' (Fast Action Battler, 2010)

:[[Fast Action Battlers]] ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Double Blade Optimus Prime also had Dual Energon Swords, which, like the 2007 Leader class toy, flipped over from his forearms to cover his hands.
{{-}}

====Robot Replicas====
[[Image:ROTF RobotReplicas OptimusPrime.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Finally, he's got the sword! Now where's the other one?]]
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Robot Replica, 2009)
:[[Robot Replicas]] ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Optimus Prime had the Energon Sword molded onto his right arm.
{{-}}

===Transformers (2010)===
====Voyager class toys====
[[Image:TF2010_ROTF_Voy_BattleBladesOptimusPrime.jpg|thumb|300px|]]
*'''Battle Blades Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)

:Battle Blades Optimus Prime, an all-new Voyager class mold in the ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers'' (2010)]] toyline, and like the larger Leader class figure from the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' line, features two snap-out Energon Swords.

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===Revenge of the Fallen===
*'''Optimus Prime Statuette''' (2010)

:Released by [[PopBox Collectibles]], this rather expensive, 12-inch-tall polystone statue of Optimus Prime features two sets of swappable hands and Energon Swords.
{{-}}

===Robot Heroes===
[[Image:Rhscorpprime.jpg|right|300px|thumb|He's cute as he violently decapitates [[Bonecrusher (Movie)|rage-filled mechanoids]].]]
*'''Optimus Prime vs. Scorponok''' (2007)

: Packaged with ''[[Robot Heroes]]'' [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], this Optimus Prime figurine was the very first Movie Optimus Prime piece of merchandise to feature the Energon Sword seen in the 2007 ''Transformers'' movie.
{{-}}

[[Image:Robotheroesoptimusblackout.jpg|right|thumb|300px|After two years, Blackout's still trying to purple nurple him.]]
*'''Optimus Prime & Blackout''' (2009)

:The first ''Revenge of the Fallen'' ''Robot Heroes'' Optimus Prime was an all-new sculpt, featuring two Energon Swords.
{{-}}

:*''For more information, see [[Optimus_Prime_(Movie)/toys#Robot_Heroes|the Robot heroes section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy article]].''

==Notes==
*The inclusion of the Energon Sword in the 2007 ''Transformers'' movie was made after Hasbro/TakaraTomy's toy designs had been locked down, which is why the Optimus Prime toys released during the movie's run lacked the prominently featured melee weapon.
*Optimus' hand is visible underneath his sword when he begins slicing off The Fallen's face, making his toys show-accurate in this respect.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Blades]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]

Decepticon leader

2011-05-25T15:56:09Z

Tyrannolodon: /* IDW Comics */ Starscrean is just about the most hilarious spelling mistake I have ever seen on this wiki.

{{factions|decepticon}}

[[Image:WorldsCollide3_MegatronVsGalvatron.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Whoever wins, we lose.]]

Among the [[Decepticon|Decepticons]], there is one guiding principle: rule of the strong. Whereas the [[Prime (rank)|leader]] of the [[Autobot|Autobots]] consults his subordinates, the strongest and the most powerful Decepticon leads, and everyone else is expected to follow without question. But strength of body is not enough. One must also have the brains to lead, the intelligence to outwit their rivals and plan their victories. Thus, the '''Decepticon leader''' is the strongest and smartest of their ranks.

Guess [[Ratbat (G1)|how]] [[Scourge (RID)|many]] [[Octane|Decepticons]] [[Megatron (disambiguation)|think]] [[Starscream (disambiguation)|they]] [[Shockwave (G1)|qualify]].

{{bigquote|Only a select few ever lead, Starscream.|[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] on the nature of power|"[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1===
====Marvel Comics continuity====
=====Marvel Comics=====
{{noteukonly}}
[[Image:Megatrong1earlymarvel.jpg|left|thumb|75px|First...]]
[[Image:Straxusholdscourt.jpg|right|thumb|100px|...and the worst.]]

[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] served as commander over all of the Decepticons for over one thousand years until he and other Decepticons and Autobots were lost buried in a [[Mount St. Hilary|volcano]] on [[Earth]]. {{storylink|The Transformers (issue)|The Transformers}} ''In his absence, the War-Lord [[Trannis]] took control of the [[Decepticon army]]. Trannis conqured most of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] and destroyed [[Iacon (city-state)|Iacon]], forcing the Autobots underground. In time Trannis grew complacent and some Decepticons had the opinion that he was insufficiently aggressive. The [[Decepticon High Command|Decepticon high command]] made plans to oust him, but the [[Wrecker]]s beat them to it when they assassinated him. He was succeeded by the more relentless [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]].'' {{storylink|Target: 2006#Cybertron: The Middle Years!|Cybertron: The Middle Years!}} Straxus became "Lord High Governor of [[Polyhex]]". {{storylink|The Smelting Pool!}}

Meanwhile, four million years had passed and the Decepticons on Earth awoke isolated from Cybertron and unaware of current events. Megatron continued his role as commander, effectively making him leader of the Earth-bound Decepticons. {{storylink|The Transformers (issue)|The Transformers}} ''[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] would briefly try to nick his job and failed miserably.'' {{storylink|The Enemy Within!}}

[[Image:Megatrong1marvelhumiliation.jpg|left|thumb|200px|"Now, ''I'' am the le-"]]
[[Image:Laserbeakdeterminescommand.jpg|right|thumb|200px|"...never mind."]]

When Megatron was defeated shortly after the Decepticons reactivated, Military Operations Commander [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] defeated the Autobots {{storylink|The Last Stand}} and usurped Megatron, reducing Megatron to [[second-in-command]]. {{storylink|The New Order}} Megatron was soon defeated by the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] and went missing for a time. {{storylink|Repeat Performance!}} Shockwave was then, himself, beaten and briefly stucked in a swamp. {{storylink|Prime Time!}} ''Soundwave took command in their absence'' {{storylink|Crisis of Command!}} ''and scored a major victory.'' {{storylink|Dinobot Hunt!}} Megatron returned {{storylink|Shooting Star!}} to command some of the Earth Decepticons while Shockwave led a group of others. ''Soundwave played for both teams, until, for the good of the Decepticons, he demanded they work together'' {{storylink|Second Generation!}}; the two agreed to joint leadership, {{storylink|The Bridge to Nowhere!}} until Megatron was able to use logic to convince Shockwave to give him full leadership. {{storylink|Command Performances!}}

Meanwhile, after receiving a mayday from the Earth bound Decepticons, Straxus contacted the Earth-bound Decepticons, and the two groups agreed to cooperate. Straxus built a [[space bridge]] to transport resources back and forth. Straxus went boom {{storylink|The Bridge to Nowhere!}} ''and was reduced to a floating head.'' {{storylink|The Harder They Die!}} ''On Earth, Megatron's growing paranoia caused Shockwave and Soundwave to try removing him'' {{storylink|Prey!}}; ''instead, Megatron ended up on Cybertron, where his presence and madness undermined Straxus. Lord Straxus attempted to possess Megatron in an attempt to end this threat and gain a body, but this ended with Straxus dead ([[Two Megatrons!|sort of]]).'' {{storylink|Resurrection!}} With Straxus dead, fuel auditor [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] ascended to ''de facto'' command of Cybertron. {{storylink|King of the Hill!}} However, an unseen [[Decepticon Imperial Headquarters]] would give him marching orders. {{storylink|Club Con!}}

[[Image:Ratbatcratercritters.jpg|left|thumb|150px]]

After seemingly killing [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], Megatron went mad and apparently killed himself, allowing Shockwave to assume full leadership of the Earth-bound Decepticons again. {{storylink|Gone but Not Forgotten!}} The Earth-bound Decepticons coordinated with [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]]. {{storylink|King of the Hill!}} Ratbat himself eventually came to Earth, and had a very uneasy alliance with Shockwave; in contrast to his clashes with Megatron, Shockwave was left trying to justify his strategies and ''impress'' the fuel auditor. {{storylink|Buster Witwicky and the Car Wash of Doom}} ''Following a massive cock-up by Shockwave that undermined his authority'' {{storylink|Enemy Action!}}, Ratbat oversaw several Earth operations directly. {{storylink|Toy Soldiers!}}

While this was going on, the Decepticon [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] took his unit to follow [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] to [[Nebulos]], where he underwent [[binary bonding]] with [[Zarak (Nebulan)|Zarak]]. Following Fortress Maximus to Earth, Scorponok operated independently from Shockwave and Ratbat, leading his own troops. {{storylink|Headmasters (comic)|Headmasters}}

Shockwave went missing in action and Ratbat, happily letting this happen to Shockers, became commander of Earth's Decepticons. {{storylink|The Desert Island of Space!}} Scorponok, meanwhile, was operated his ''own'' faction on Earth. {{storylink|Trial by Fire!}} ''Shockwave set up shop with a small third faction in [[Fortress Sinister]]'' {{storylink|Salvage!}}, ''but he'd eventually lose his men as he went mad.'' {{storylink|Time Wars (issue)|Time Wars}} Eventually, Scorponok and Ratbat met up... and had [[Decepticon Civil War|a big punch-up]], thanks to manipulation by Starscream {{storylink|Cold War!}} By the end of this and some fun with the [[Underbase]], Ratbat was shot dead by Scorponok and Starscream killed by the Underbase's power. Without any rivals, Scorponok easily settled into power as Earth's sole Decepticon leader. {{storylink|Dark Star (issue)|Dark Star}}

[[Image:FallAndRiseTriumvirateHeads.jpg|left|150px|thumb|]]
[[Image:Thunderwingwhereisthecreationmatrix.jpg|right|150px|thumb]]

''''On Cybertron, [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] petitioned the [[Decepticon High Council]] to be appointed the new leader (even though someone else appears to have been leader.'' {{storylink|The Big Shutdown!}} {{storylink|Assault on the Ark!}} ''Straxus/Megatron (don't ask) arrived in [[Helex]] to find the [[Decepticon Empire]] had become lax under the ruling Decepticon [[Triumverate]]. Straxus/Megatron inspired a crowd of Decepticons to take action. The Triumverate were killed and Straxus/Megatron took control of the empire.'' {{storylink|The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire}} ''Megatron arrived and confronted Straxus/Megatron leading the latter to take his own life'' {{storylink|Two Megatrons!}}, but kept his return secret. The confusing situation was made simpler when Megatron became lost in a portal {{storylink|Skin Deep}} and Thunderwing was killed due to his Matrix obsession. {{storylink|All Fall Down (issue)|All Fall Down}}

[[Image:Allthisandcivilwar-arethey.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]

With [[Unicron]] fast approaching Cybertron, Optimus Prime made the decision to surrender to Scorponok, in return for allying with the Autobots against Unicron. {{storylink|Surrender!}} Scorponok planned to betray Prime, but Zarak later agreed to the alliance. {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} However, Scorponok's troops were growing disgruntled, especially by his recruitment of the (newly not dead) Starscream. Taking advantage of this, Shockwave managed to get several disgruntled Decepticons to ally with him and attack Scorponok's group. {{storylink|...All This and Civil War 2}} Ultimately, they were all transported to Cybertron by [[Primus]], who named Optimus Prime as the commander of Cybertron's united army. {{storylink|Out of Time!}}

{{note|After the battle with Unicron, the scope of Cybertron society is drastically reduced for storytelling reasons. References to existing Cybertron-based Decepticon forces and the underground Autobot resistance is dropped, leaving primarily the core Earth-based cast. Presumably, Unicron killed everyone else.}}

[[Image:Bludgeon-youlie1.jpg|thumb|right|150px]]

During the battle with Unicron, Optimus Prime and Scorponok were both killed. {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} As Shockwave and Starscream fled the dying Cybertron, {{storylink|A Savage Circle}} [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] was acclaimed Decepticon leader by the surviving Decepticons. {{storylink|Exodus!}} He led the Decepticons in the conquest of [[Klo]], {{storylink|The Last Autobot?}} then massacred the Autobots who arrived to stop them. However, Optimus Prime had been revived by the [[Last Autobot]], whom Bludgeon had worshipped as the Ultimate Warrior. The Last Autobot revived the fallen Autobots, and Bludgeon agreed to lead the Decepticons into exile...planning to bide their time. {{storylink|End of the Road! (US)|End of the Road!}}

Shockwave, meanwhile, had hijacked the Ark alongside Starscream with the intention of using it to conquer Earth. {{storylink|Still Life!}} He didn't count on [[Galvatron II|an alternate timeline Galvatron]] to have attempted the same thing. He also didn't count on Ratchet and Megatron (yep, he's back again) to be on board the Ark in stasis, though, nor did he expect the pair to awaken during the journey. {{storylink|Exodus!}} While Megatron kept Shockwave and Starscream occupied, Ratchet forced the Ark to crash violently into the ground. Galvatron was the only one to emerge from the crash, and he appeared to be the only survivor. {{storylink|A Savage Circle}}

''In an alternate timeline, Scorponok, Shockwave and Megatron were having a three-way Decepticon civil war over Decepticon leadership during the late 80s/early 90s.'' {{storylink|Trigger-Happy!}}

=====Marvel UK future timelines=====
[[Image:SpacePiratesSoundwaveLeader.JPG|left|200px|thumb|''Everyone'' would follow a bore like him!]]

Scorponok, Shockwave, and Megatron had a three-way civil war for Decepticon leadership; Megatron won. {{storylink|Aspects of Evil!}} In 2006, Megatron was transformed into Galvatron (ending an attempt by Starscream to seize leadership) {{storylink|Target: 2006}} and would later escape by time travel. {{storylink|Fallen Angel (issue)|Fallen Angel!}} This led to a ''very'' messy leadership situation, as Shockwave, Cyclonus and Scourge (working as Unicron's proxies), and Soundwave would all take command sequentially over the next few years. Shockwave succeeded in re-conquering half of Cybertron, and Soundwave pulled off the nifty trick of conning the ''Autobots'' into saving his army from [[Quintesson]] attack.

Eventually, a post-[[Time Wars (issue)|Time Wars]] clean-up of the timeline happened, and Galvatron had now [[retcon|always been commander since 2006]].

=====Earthforce=====
{{earthforcefiction}}
Megatron and Shockwave were both stuck on Earth with small platoons, and waged a constant civil war over leadership and the planet. {{storylink|Life in the Slow Lane}} Scorponok is referred to as also existing, and presumably commands the Decepticons that ''aren't'' on Earth. [[Mindwipe (G1)|Mindwipe]] of all people ''tried'' to become Decepticon leader by usurping Scorponok's command; it went ''poorly''. {{storylink|The Living Nightlights!}}

The Autobots sabotaged any attempt to stop the leadership conflict. {{storylink|The Bad Guy's Ball!}} Eventually, Starscream and Soundwave deposed Megatron and Shockwave, uniting the two factions as ''joint'' Decepticon leaders. {{storylink|Internal Affairs!}} Unsurprisingly, they both planned to backstab the other and take sole control at some point. Megatron and Shockwave also teamed up, attempting to regain control. {{storylink|External Forces!}}

=====Another Time and Place=====
[[Image:MarvelUSG2-05.jpg|right|100px|thumb|''That'll'' teach you to be a ''late'' 80s character and want scenes!]]

Following the defeat on [[Klo]], Bludgeon attempted to bring back Megatron to lead ''instead'' of him. {{storylink|Another Time and Place}}

=====Generation 2=====
Bludgeon led his forces back into battle, arming his army in preparation for a major strike. {{storylink|Primal Fear!|Old Evils}} {{storylink|Ghosts}} However, Megatron challenged Bludgeon for leadership of the Decepticons. After a fierce battle, Megatron emerged victorious. {{storylink|The Power and the Glory|Tales of Earth Part Two}}

=====Classics=====
Megatron's status as the Decepticon leader is all but unchallenged... on Earth. However, Bludgeon and his loyal troops remain, scattered across the universe.

And then Megatron killed him and took command. {{storylink|At Fight's End}}

{{-}}
====Cartoon continuity====
=====''The Transformers'' cartoon=====
[[Image:EarlyDecepticonLeader01.jpg|left|100px|thumb|]]
At first, the Decepticons were led by an [[Early Decepticon leader|old Decepticon]] who could not [[Transformation|transform]]. However, when he lost the [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|Second Cybertronian War]] against the Autobots, he was replaced with Megatron, who led the Decepticons to conquer much of Cybertron. However, when Megatron and Optimus Prime disappeared, the war on Cybertron entered a stalemate. Shockwave had been appointed Guardian of Cybertron in Megatron's absence, and became de facto Decepticon leader. Once Megatron resumed contact with Cybertron, Shockwave resubmitted to his authority. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 1}} {{storylink|Transport to Oblivion}}
At one point, Megatron introduced himself to [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], addressing himself as '''Supreme Leader'''. {{storylink|Fire in the Sky}}

Air Commander Starscream, long contemptuous of Megatron's leadership, made several attempts to supplant Megatron. They all ended with failure, usually due to his own impatience or the other Decepticons' loyalty to Megatron.

However, Starscream eventually decided to get some help. [[Image:TripleTakeover Mount Deceptimore.jpg|right|200px|thumb|]] He made plans with [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] and [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] to trap Megatron in a tunnel and freeze him. However, the [[Triple Changer|Triple Changers]] betrayed Starscream, leaving them both to freeze, and proceeded to wreak havoc. Megatron and Starscream were freed due to an accident on Astrotrain's part, and after defeating Astrotrain, Blitzwing, [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], and Starscream, Megatron resumed leadership of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Triple Takeover}}

By 2005, the Decepticons had conquered Cybertron. However, the Autobots retained control of two moons and held a reserve force at [[Autobot City]]. Megatron launched an [[Battle of Autobot City|assault on Autobot City]], where he and Optimus Prime mortally wounded each other. During the trip back to Cybertron, Astrotrain required the Decepticons to jettison excess weight or he would be unable to make it back. The wounded Decepticons were thrown overboard to allow the survivors to return, with Starscream personally ejecting Megatron. After a mild scuffle aboard Astrotrain, Starscream emerged as the new Decepticon leader. However, Megatron was discovered by [[Unicron]], and [[reformatting|reformatted]] into [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. With a new body and troops, Galvatron returned to Cybertron and killed Starscream with a single blast, ending Starscream's glorious reign of about twenty minutes (or twenty seconds depending on how you look at it). Galvatron was hailed as the new leader of the Decepticons. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}

After Unicron's attack on Cybertron and the disappearance of Galvatron, the Decepticons fled to [[Chaar]]. Without strong leaders like Galvatron, Starscream, or Shockwave, the Decepticons fell into a period of disunity, where they fought each other for scraps of [[Energon (fuel)|energon]]. Ultimately, [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] located Galvatron, who reorganized the Decepticons. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness}}

=====Robot Masters=====
After the disappearance of Megatron, the leadership of the Decepticons was helmed by Starscream. However, a [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] from another time challenged Starscream for leadership and won.

====Dreamwave====

[[Image:Ratbatwarwithin.jpg|left|100px|thumb|Screw Megatron, let's see more of the ''real'' Decepticon leader!]]
At first, Megatron was the sole leader of the Decepticons, with his chief lieutenants being Air Commander Starscream, Military Operations Commander Shockwave, and Communications Officer Soundwave. {{storylink|The War Within}} After Megatron was believed to have been destroyed along with Optimus Prime in a space bridge explosion, Shockwave became Decepticon leader. However, Starscream and High Auditor Ratbat broke off from the Decepticon army, forming the [[Predacon (War Within)|Predacons]] and [[Ultracon|Ultracons]], respectively. {{storylink|War Within: The Dark Ages}} Megatron's return to Cybertron saw him resume command of the fragmented Decepticons. {{storylink|War Within: The Age of Wrath}}

After Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave disappeared chasing Optimus Prime's crew aboard the ''Ark'', Shockwave emerged as Decepticon leader, this time as part of a triumvirate that included Scorponok and Ratbat. He was briefly overthrown by [[Skystalker (G1)|Skystalker]], who used his head to issue commands to Shockwave's troops, but Skystalker was defeated and Shockwave resumed command. {{storylink|Transformers: Micromasters}}

[[Image:Shockwavedwwarandpeace.jpg|right|200px|thumb|]]
With the [[Great Shutdown]], all Transformers entered a period of enforced [[stasis lock]]. Shockwave was reactivated by Unicron's herald [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]], but Shockwave defeated Scourge, studying him. Learning secrets about Cybertron that Megatron had previously discovered, Shockwave made peace with the Autobots, installing himself as Head of State with an [[Autobot High Council]] as a legislature. On Earth, Megatron retained command of the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' crew, but he was defeated when Shockwave arrived, intent on gaining the Matrix from Optimus Prime. Starscream ejected Megatron from the ship transporting them back to Cybertron, then recruited the ''Nemesis'' crew and the [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]] to conquer Earth. When Optimus Prime was brought to Cybertron, he united the Autobot resistance groups and overthrew Shockwave. Shockwave was able to retain command of a small number of loyal Decepticons still on planet, while Starscream led the ''Nemesis'' crew back to Earth. {{storylink|Prime Directive}} {{storylink|War and Peace}}

Meanwhile, Megatron was repaired by [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]], and managed to locate a trio of [[Air Warrior]]s he used to recruit the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]]. Heading for Cybertron, he took command of Shockwave's forces, forcing Shockwave into a subordinate state. On Earth, Starscream's failures against the Autobots and [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]] made Soundwave, his cassettes, and the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] all too willing to mutiny against Starscream in favor of Megatron. {{storylink|Generation One (Dreamwave comic)|Generation One}}

{{note|Dreamwave's ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)#Issue #8|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' makes a passing reference to the "reign of the mighty Scorponok" occurring sometime after the (second) disappearance of Megatron and before the Great Shutdown. It is unknown if this preceded or succeeded the events of ''Micromasters''.}}

====IDW Comics====
[[Image:Apexthrone.JPG|left|200px|thumb|]]
Megatron founded the Decepticons in a violent uprising {{storylink|Megatron Origin}}, and in a shocking twist of fate ''reigned without problem'': most potential challengers, such as Starscream, were too piss-scared of Megatron {{storylink|Infiltration issue 6|Infiltration #6}} and even the idea of ''questioning'' Megatron was a worry. {{storylink|Devastation issue 1|Devastation #1}} While he wanted Starscream to take over from him at some point, he would only allow it if Starscream was able to ''take'' command; {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 11|All Hail Megatron #11}} when Starscream attempted a rebellion, Megatron took his best shots and then crippled him, but left him alive. {{storylink|Infiltration issue 6|Infiltration #6}} In contrast, when [[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]] attempted rebellion, Megatron beat him to death. {{storylink|Spotlight: Ramjet}}

[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] has noted with envy and annoyance that the Decepticons are far more unified than the Autobots. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 15|All Hail Megatron #15}}

This all went to pot when Megatron achieved near-victory, and the Decepticon advance stagnated. The troops were disgruntled, and Starscream warned that coup attempts were going to come. Unsurprisingly, Starscream himself led one with most of the Earth-based Decepticons... a coup Megatron anticipated and appeared to have wanted, as he had a convoluted plan to reshape his troops into a less nasty form now he'd won. Unfortunately for him, he was viciously damaged by a surprise Autobot attack. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron}} Immediately, leadership fragmented: Soundwave and his crew kept Megatron alive, providing a barrier to any attempt at legitimacy; Starscream had temporary command but knew [[Razorclaw (G1)|Razorclaw]] or someone would challenge him for it. In desperation, he waved the stolen Autobot Matrix around and declared it had chosen him, gaining legitimate command that way. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 13|All Hail Megatron #13}}

===Live-action films===
[[Image:TheFallen-ROTFNemesis.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"It's funny how 'leading' looks a lot like ''sitting on your arse''."]]

Originally styled [[Lord High Protector|High Protector]] of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] amended his title to ''Lord'' High Protector upon forming the Decepticons. {{storylink|Defiance}} {{storylink|Movie Prequel}} Notably in this continuity family, while Megatron leads the Decepticons, his loyalty to [[The Fallen]], known as the first Decepticon, means supreme command lies with him. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)}} He was the one who told Megatron what strategies to take in the early days, though he left Megatron to command by himself as he left [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to find a [[star harvester]]. {{storylink|Defiance}} During his absence while searching for the [[AllSpark]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] assumed command as Decepticon leader, though he grew quite comfortable with the position and would prefer Megatron remained absent, something [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] sought to frustrate. {{storylink|Ghosts of Yesterday}}

Upon his revival, Megatron resumed command, just long enough to kill [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], beat [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] half to death, and be killed by [[Sam Witwicky]]. He was then dropped into the [[Laurentian Abyss]] almost immediately afterwards. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)|Transformers}} Starscream then assumed leadership of the Decepticons and began styling himself '''Lord''' Starscream. Although [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] and [[Thundercracker (Movie)|Thundercracker]] accepted Starscream without objection, Starscream was betrayed by [[Dreadwing (Movie)|Dreadwing]] and [[Ramjet (Movie)|Ramjet]], shattering his faith in his leadership. {{storylink|The Reign of Starscream}} When [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] and the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'' reached Earth, Soundwave recognized Starscream as Decepticon commander, and Starscream's ambitions were renewed. {{storylink|Alliance (comic)|Alliance}} However, a number of Decepticons were unsatisfied with Starscream, feeling he had not earned the right. As such, they began efforts to revive Megatron {{storylink|The Veiled Threat}} However, Starscream soon discovered another obstacle to his role as true leader on Soundwave's ship... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.1|Training Day}}

[[Image:Titan7_Soundwave_GO!.jpg|left|thumb|300px|]]

While Starscream was tending to the [[hatchling]]s on the ''Nemesis'' per the Fallen's decree, Soundwave commanded the Decepticons on Earth. First, he tried to track down lost Seekers to gain information and keep the Autobots from knowing about the Fallen's plans. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.6|Outlaw Blues}} {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|Turnabout}} Later, he had Megatron resurrected, which transferred command back to the big Meg.

When he returned to the ''Nemesis'', Megatron struck Starscream for his presumption of assuming command, saying that even in death, there was no command but Megatron's. This statement was slightly undermined by his next course of action, which to bow before the Fallen. Megatron was left in sole command following The Fallen's death at the hands of Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)}}

We know that other Decepticons have ''tried'' to become leaders of the main Decepticon faction, including [[Mainframe (Movie)|Mainframe]] {{storylink|Transformers: Rise of the Chevy Autobots}} and [[Dreadwing (Movie)|Dreadwing]] {{storylink|The Reign of Starscream}}, but it rarely goes well. Following that mess with the Fallen, [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] decided to form his ''own'' group of Decepticons on Earth and lead that. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.13|Inside Out!}} In one timeline, [[Stockade (Movie)|Stockade]] did the same thing. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 17|Return to Cybertron: Part 1}}

===Animated===
[[Image:AniMegsHead-TransformAndRollout.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Head master.]]

Styled '''Supreme Leader''', the title was held by [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] for over four million solar cycles, since the days of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. When Megatron was believed killed trying to secure the [[AllSpark]], [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] immediately nominated himself the new Supreme leader...no one took him seriously. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out}}

He finally ''did'' manage to get the Decepticons [[Lugnut (Animated)|Lugnut]] and [[Blitzwing (Animated)|Blitzwing]] to swear allegiance to him in exchange for repairs. {{storylink|Lost and Found (episode)|Lost and Found}} However, this was also short-lived, as Lugnut was really taking orders from the disembodied head of Megatron. {{storylink|Megatron Rising - Part 1}} After his restoration, the Decepticons repledged their loyalty to Megatron, who decided to reinforce it by seriously damaging Starscream. {{storylink|Megatron Rising - Part 2}}

When Megatron was absent yet again, [[Shockwave (Animated)|Shockwave]] was seen giving orders to [[Strika (Animated)|group commander Strika]]. However, rather than taking full command, his orders were to wait until Megatron came back (much to Strika's frustration). {{storylink|TransWarped}}

===Shattered Glass===
[[Image:Shatteredglassmegatrondecepticons.jpg|left|250px|thumb|]]

Unlike previous incarnations, the leader of the Decepticons is a heroic resistance leader, intending to free Cybertron from the Autobots and save the galaxy from their evil ways. [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]] stands as their current leader, and it seems that [[Starscream (SG)|Starscream]] will be a [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|successor]] rather than a usurper.

{{-}}
===Aligned===
====''Exodus''====
In an act of keeping his enemies closer than his friends, [[Megatron (Prime)|Megatron]] appointed his surgeon [[Shockwave (WFC)|Shockwave]] to be his lieutenant despite his belief the scientist would eventually betray him. Megatron's movement was fairly disparate in the beginning, consisting of his [[Gladiatorial combat|gladiators]] in his employ and followers across Cybertron who listened to his teachings on the [[Communication Grid]]. Megatron was aware his followers were going to resort to terrorism, but did nothing to improve his reputation by distancing himself from their extremism. However, he accepted the gift of a kidnapped [[Sentinel Zeta Prime|Sentinel Prime]] by the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]] [[Starscream (Prime)|Starscream]]. Already plotting to usurp Megatron's position as Cybertron's would-be savior, but patient enough to recognize how the revolution could turn sour, Starscream allied himself with Megatron but remained officially [[neutral]], occupying [[Moonbase One|Moon Base One]] and [[Trypticon (WFC)|Trypticon]] for himself.

During the civil war, Starscream's Seekers only aided the Decepticons in some battles. Shockwave engaged in some power politics with the Seekers by taking control of [[Tarn]] and [[Vos]] and secretly assassinating the neutral Air Commanders there. When [[Soundwave (Prime)|Soundwave]] discovered Trypticon was a hoard of [[Dark Energon]], Megatron's gladiators brutally took control of the station, even forcing Starscream to subject two of his scientists to experimentation with the chaotic substance. Soon, Starscream, tired of Megatron's tactics and ashamed of their use of Dark Energon, released Sentinel from his [[Kaon]]ian dungeon to kill Megatron, having been informed by [[Optimus Prime (Prime)|Optimus Prime]] that all he sought was a just peace should something "happen" to Megatron. Sentinel failed, and Starscream fought Megatron and [[Blackout (WFC)|Blackout]] for the [[Code Key]]s to [[Teletraan-1]], but was beaten and only spared as Megatron found him too useful to die. Megatron certainly considered Starscream elite enough to take him aboard the ''Nemesis'', leaving Shockwave behind to lead the Cybertronian Decepticons. {{storylink|Exodus: The Official History of the War for Cybertron}}

====''War for Cybertron''====
Starscream attempted to claim leadership of the Decepticons when Megatron was believed to be killed by [[Omega Supreme (WFC)|Omega Supreme]]. Somehow alive, Megatron lambasted him through a communications line, and threatened to kill him and any other cowards trying to flee from Omega. {{storylink|Transformers: War for Cybertron (360/PS3/PC)|Transformers: War for Cybertron}}

====''Prime''====
Starscream generally leads the Decepticons in the present because Megatron is too busy being absent while searching for Dark Energon or being comatose. {{storylink|Darkness Rising, Part 1}} Regardless, the [[Vehicon (Prime)|troops]] won't take him seriously as a full-time [[Emperor of Destruction]]. When Starscream attempted to hide Megatron's survival of the [[space bridge]] explosion, Soundwave's [[Deployer (Prime)|Deployer]] ensured he would bring his body back to sickbay. {{storylink|Masters & Students}}

==Notes==
*Unlike the Autobots, whose leader is called a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]], the Decepticon leader has no "official name".

==See also==
*[[Emperor of Destruction]]
*[[Lord High Protector]]
*[[Air Commander]]
*[[Liege Maximo]]

[[Category:Decepticon leaders| ]]
[[Category:Ranks]]

Fan fiction

2011-05-23T18:47:13Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Popular Transformers fanfic topics */

'''Fan fiction''' (or '''fanfic''') is fiction written by [[Fandom|fans]] of a property without the explicit or even insinuated approval of the copyright holder. This allows for many fans to do what they most desire with the material that they are fiddling around with, be it to make a serious and epic story or to just plain mess around and play with their little fantasies. Needless to say, not all fanfics are good, but which are and which aren't is mostly up to the reader's discretion.

===Topics===
Over the years, an incredibly wide variety of ''Transformers'' fanfic has been written, including straightforward adventure stories, crossovers with other properties, parodies, incredibly creepy and/or awesome stories in which gruesome acts of [[Decepticon]]-on-[[fleshling]] violence are described in tender, loving detail[http://shortpacked.com/comic/book-1-brings-back-the-80s/06-mrs-greg-killmaster/a-61/], and, of course, "erotica" of varying degrees of [[Slag (slang)|slagged]]-upness. Many female [[human]]s have taken to badly writing romantic fanfic either about [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]] and [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]]/themselves, or [[Autobot|any]] [[Decepticon|given]] male character with [[Megatron (G1)|any]] [[Starscream (G1)|other]] male character.

====Popular Transformers fanfic topics====
*'''[[wikipedia:Mary_Sue|Self-insertion]]:''' Guess what, you're a Transformer and everyone likes you the best! Here, have the [[Matrix]].
*'''Fan-written episodes:''' Can range from one story mimicking the structure of a television episode to an entire fake season or [http://www.allspark.com/content/view/6435/20/ whole movie]. Usually written in script form.
*'''[[Transformer romance|Romance]]:''' Pick any two Transformers characters ''at all''. Have them make out and exchange pillow talk. [[Scale]] apparently doesn't matter here (not that it does anywhere else for that matter).
*'''Extra-[[Humanization|humanized]] Transformers:''' Sisters! Cousins! Babies! Daddies! Almost a subcategory of "romance", since adding even more organic-like components to Transformers really helps along with the... ahem... [[Reproduction|sexual intercourse]]. Scale also does not matter here.
*'''Crossovers:''' Because civilization is not complete until [[Soundwave (disambiguation)|Soundwave]] somehow becomes human (or not, who cares? It's a fanfiction!) and enrolls at Riverdale High. Or until [[Starscream (disambiguation)|Starscream]] engages in mortal combat with Samus Aran and stomps her into a red paste.
*'''Character-driven stories:''' What does [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] think about when he's alone in space? What's a typical day for [[Big Daddy (G1)|Big Daddy]]?
*'''Absolute fanwanking:''' A nerd's nerd will write these, and they probably involve things like [[Berko]] or [[Forestonite]] and about a hundred other obscure characters. How does everything fit together? Let's connect the dots, The Question-style!

===Hard work pays off===
In recent years, a few Transformers fanfic writers have made the jump to writing [[Hasbro]]-sanctioned fiction, including [[Ben Yee]], [[Greg Sepelak]], [[Trent Troop]], [[Josh van Reyk]] and [[Shaun Knowler]].

{{stub}}

==See also==
*[[Authorial intent]]
*[[Fanon]]
*[[Personal canon]]

==External links==
*[[wikipedia:Fan_fiction|Fan fiction]] at Wikipedia
*[http://transfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Transformers Fanon Wiki]
*[http://www.transfictions.net/tffics/index.php Transfictions.net]
*[http://www.transformersfanfic.com/ Transformers Lexicon]

[[Category:Fandom]]

Fan fiction

2011-05-23T18:47:02Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Popular Transformers fanfic topics */

'''Fan fiction''' (or '''fanfic''') is fiction written by [[Fandom|fans]] of a property without the explicit or even insinuated approval of the copyright holder. This allows for many fans to do what they most desire with the material that they are fiddling around with, be it to make a serious and epic story or to just plain mess around and play with their little fantasies. Needless to say, not all fanfics are good, but which are and which aren't is mostly up to the reader's discretion.

===Topics===
Over the years, an incredibly wide variety of ''Transformers'' fanfic has been written, including straightforward adventure stories, crossovers with other properties, parodies, incredibly creepy and/or awesome stories in which gruesome acts of [[Decepticon]]-on-[[fleshling]] violence are described in tender, loving detail[http://shortpacked.com/comic/book-1-brings-back-the-80s/06-mrs-greg-killmaster/a-61/], and, of course, "erotica" of varying degrees of [[Slag (slang)|slagged]]-upness. Many female [[human]]s have taken to badly writing romantic fanfic either about [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]] and [[Alexis Thi Dang|Alexis]]/themselves, or [[Autobot|any]] [[Decepticon|given]] male character with [[Megatron (G1)|any]] [[Starscream (G1)|other]] male character.

====Popular Transformers fanfic topics====
*'''[[wikipedia:Mary_Sue|Self-insertion]]:''' Guess what, you're a Transformer and everyone likes you the best! Here, have the [[Matrix]].
*'''Fan-written episodes:''' Can range from one story mimicking the structure of a television episode to an entire fake season or [http://www.allspark.com/content/view/6435/20/ whole movie]. Usually written in script form.
*'''[[Transformer romance|Romance]]:''' Pick any two Transformers characters ''at all''. Have them make out and exchange pillow talk. [[Scale]] apparently doesn't matter here (not that it does anywhere else for that matter).
*'''Extra-[[Humanization|humanized]] Transformers:''' Sisters! Cousins! Babies! Daddies! Almost a subcategory of "romance", since adding even more organic-like components to Transformers really helps along with the... ahem... [[Reproduction|sexual intercourse]]. Scale also does not matter here.
*'''Crossovers:''' Because civilization is not complete until [[Soundwave (disambiguation)|Soundwave]] somehow becomes human (or not, who cares? It's a fanfiction!) and enrolls at Riverdale High. Or until [[Starscream (disambiguation)|Starscream]] engages in mortal combat with Samus Aran.
*'''Character-driven stories:''' What does [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] think about when he's alone in space? What's a typical day for [[Big Daddy (G1)|Big Daddy]]?
*'''Absolute fanwanking:''' A nerd's nerd will write these, and they probably involve things like [[Berko]] or [[Forestonite]] and about a hundred other obscure characters. How does everything fit together? Let's connect the dots, The Question-style!

===Hard work pays off===
In recent years, a few Transformers fanfic writers have made the jump to writing [[Hasbro]]-sanctioned fiction, including [[Ben Yee]], [[Greg Sepelak]], [[Trent Troop]], [[Josh van Reyk]] and [[Shaun Knowler]].

{{stub}}

==See also==
*[[Authorial intent]]
*[[Fanon]]
*[[Personal canon]]

==External links==
*[[wikipedia:Fan_fiction|Fan fiction]] at Wikipedia
*[http://transfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Transformers Fanon Wiki]
*[http://www.transfictions.net/tffics/index.php Transfictions.net]
*[http://www.transformersfanfic.com/ Transformers Lexicon]

[[Category:Fandom]]

Uranus

2011-05-23T17:28:52Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:Theprobetranswarpprobe.jpg|thumb|Sorry, we already made the obvious joke [[The Probe|over here]].]]

'''Uranus''' is a planet in the [[Solar System]]. It is blue (though it tends to look green in pictures), lies on it's equator for some reason, and possesses a single ring.

==Fiction==
===Marvel ''Generation 2'' comics===
One of the citizens on [[Milleville]] accused [[Cobra|his attackers]] of trying to brainwash the city with rays of Uranus. {{storylink|Goin' South}}

===''Beast Wars'' cartoon===
A [[temporal probe]] sent to search for the ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'' entered the transwarp rift that the ''Axalon'' previously entered, and passed by Uranus on the way to [[Earth]]. {{storylink|The Probe}}

===''Beast Wars II'' cartoon===
[[Nemesis (BWII)|Nemesis]] almost pulled in [[Ikard]]'s dropship as it passed near Uranus. {{storylink|The New Weapon, Tako Tank}}

==External links==
*[[Wikipedia:Uranus|Uranus on Wikipedia]]

[[Category:Beast Wars planets]]
[[Category:Beast Wars II planets]]
[[Category:Solar System]]

Star system

2011-05-23T17:22:52Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Galaxy ≠ Universe */

{{disambig2|the generic term|the actual Solar-related system|Solar System}}

[[Image:CybertronBW Transwarp.jpg|right|300px|thumb|To get to "another galaxy", you've got to go past a few hundred billion of these.]]
A '''solar system''' (more properly, '''star system''' or '''stellar system''') is a grouping of one or more stars, commonly orbited by one or more planets and various other cosmic detritus.

Transformers typically travel to different star systems in the course of their adventures. As star systems are generally several light years apart, this requires some sort of faster-than-light propulsion, or an instantaneous gateway system of some kind, such as a [[Space bridge|space bridge]].

==Fiction==
Notable solar systems in Transformers fiction include:

[[Image:GodGambit Saturn.jpg|right|150px|thumb|]]
[[Image:Theprobetranswarpprobe.jpg|right|150px|thumb|]]
* The [[Solar System]], dominated by the [[Sun]], appears in almost every Transformers story. Its known orbital bodies include:
** [[Mercury]]
** [[Venus (planet)|Venus]]
** [[Earth]], and its moon, the [[Moon (moon)|Moon]].
** [[Mars (planet)|Mars]]
** Various asteroids, including [[Ceres]] (technically a dwarf planet), [[Juno]], and [[Pallas]]<ref>[[Duel on the Asteroid]]</ref>
** [[Jupiter]], and its moon [[Io]]
** [[Saturn]], and its moon [[Titan (moon)|Titan]]
** [[Uranus]]
** Neptune <ref>Featured, but not named in [[The Probe]].</ref>
** [[Pluto]]

===Marvel Comics===
* The [[Alpha Centauri]] system was the home system of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], before it was knocked out of orbit.
* The Rigel system, including the planet [[Rigel III]].
* An unnamed system where the [[Matrix Quest]] took place, home to the following planets:
** [[Cheyne]]
** [[Pz-Zazz]]
** [[Pequod]]
** [[Cameron]], and its barren moon [[VsQs]]

===''Beast Wars'' cartoon===
[[Image:CybertronBW SolarSystem.jpg|right|150px|thumb|]]
* An unnamed system containing the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. Cybertron's irregular orbit, seen in "[[The Agenda (Part 1)]]", indicates that it may have been moved into this solar system artificially.

===IDW Comics===
* The Lambda Scorpii system, also home to the planet Cybertron.
* The [[Kol]] system, home to the planet [[Varas Centralus]].
* The [[Eigerson-48]] system, home to the planet [[Mumu-Obscura]].

===''Transformers'' (2007)===
* The [[Charii system]]

===''Transformers Animated''===

* The [[Hadeen System]]
* The [[Quartex (region)| Quartex]] system.

==Those poor, confused writers==
===Galaxy ≠ Star system===
A star system should not be confused with a ''galaxy'', which is a massive grouping of millions of star systems. A single galaxy is unfathomably huge, with our own [[Milky Way]] Galaxy containing several hundred ''billion'' stars. The distances between galaxies are several orders of magnitude greater than the distances between the star systems they contain.

Unfortunately, in Transformers fiction, "galaxy" is frequently used in places where "star system" makes a lot more sense, or at least is not as jarring. (Note that this is [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale hardly a phenomenon limited to ''Transformers'' writers].) Given that all interstellar travel is based on fictional technologies, it's not ''inconceivable'' that characters might actually come from or travel to other galaxies. But the notion seems an unnecessary complication at best ([[Star Wars|a single galaxy is a more-than-ample playground for fictional adventures]]) and often outright contradicts information given elsewhere. Cartoon animation, for example, almost ''never'' supports the idea that characters actually leave the Milky Way galaxy.

Notable examples of galaxy/solar system confusion include:

* [[Countdown (G1)|Countdown]]'s [[Bio|bio]], which says his [[Rocket Base|rocket base]] can use gravity to "slingshot across entire galaxies in seconds".

* "[[The Test (issue)|The Test]]", wherein [[Megatron (RID)|Galvatron]] is delighted to find [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] "just inside our galaxy", as if that meant it was nearby.

* "[[Primal Fear!]]", in which the [[Decepticon]] [[Warworld]] is said to be operating in "another galaxy".

* The ''[[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]]'' episode "[[The Return of Demolishor]]" features [[Kicker Jones|Kicker]] narrating, "We warped into another galaxy on the outer reaches of the solar system." The dialogue is less confused in the original ''Superlink'' version, and may be more of a dubbing artifact than pure authorial error ("''from'' the outer reaches of the solar system", or switching the two terms around, would both make a lot more sense.)

* [[Movie Prequel issue 2]], as [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] describes searching "countless solar spans, through myriad galaxies, nebulae and systems".

* ''[[Transformers: Beginnings]]'': In a voiceover monologue not taken from the [[Movie Prequel issue 2|comic version]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] announces his arrival in the [[Milky Way]] galaxy, despite [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime's]] opening narration for the [[Transformers (2007)|movie]], where he stated that the [[Autobot|Autobots]] "scattered across the galaxy", thus implying that [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is located ''within'' the Milky Way galaxy.

* [[The Reign of Starscream Issue Number One|''The Reign of Starscream'' issue 1]]: Despite Optimus Prime's aforementioned opening narration for the movie, [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] claims in this issue that the [[AllSpark (Movie)|All Spark]]'s journey ends "galaxies away" when it arrives on [[Earth]]. ([[The Reign of Starscream issue 5|Issue 5]] later corrects this.)

[[Image:G1 Cybertron's galaxy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[http://lyricwiki.org/Monty_Python:Galaxy_Song Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving, revolving at nine hundred miles an hour...]]]

Remarkably, the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon series]] seems to portray Cybertron consistently as being originally located outside our galaxy. The episode "[[Roll for It]]" shows Cybertron outside of a spiral galaxy (though it is also shown against a field of stars, instead of the empty black void that should be there if it's located in inter-galactic space). The episode later shows a rather confusing visual of the space bridge energy beam emanating from an empty point in space alongside a galaxy, but not going into the galaxy. Later, in "The Ultimate Doom", Optimus Prime comments that the pylons of the Decepticons' Cybertron-centered space bridge "form a pyramid, with the apex beyond this galaxy."

===Galaxy ≠ Universe===
On more rare occasions, "universe" is used in place of "galaxy" or even "solar system", to even more ridiculous effect. Since the (observable) universe includes ''billions of galaxies'', each containing ''billions of stars'', the following usages of "universe" seem painfully misworded:

* In "[[Changing Gears]]", it's stated that the exploding [[Sun]] could destroy the universe. Suns have exploded on a pretty regular basis for billions of years, and so far, the universe is still ticking away.

* In "[[The Return of Demolishor]]", [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] says that by using the [[Energon grid|energon grid]], they "run the risk of destroying the entire universe". Though the characters ''are'' in [[Alpha Q's universe|a new, fledgling universe]] where this might make some slight amount of sense, the line is in fact a dubbing error.

* Various Decepticons have made the claim that they plan to rule not merely the galaxy but rather the universe, such as [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] in "[[The Revenge of Bruticus]]" — "I ''will'' rule the universe, even if I am the only one ''left'' in the universe!" That's a ''lot'' of conquering to do there, buddy!

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Space]]

North Korea

2011-05-21T01:09:53Z

Tyrannolodon:

'''The Democratic People's Republic of Korea''' is neither democratic nor for the people, but ''is'' a republic in the north of the Korean Peninsula (in theory any way, in reality it is more of a monarchy since every leader has been determined through hereditary means). It's infamous for being a totalitarian dictatorship, keeping its population isolated from the rest of the world and ruling with great brutality. Every so often it will make threatening noises towards [[Japan]] or its neighbour [[South Korea]].

You really don't want them to have [[Combaticon (G1)|giant robots]].

==Fiction==
===Generation 1===
====Marvel Comics continuity====

In the 1950s, the [[United States of America]] were involved in the Korean War against North Korea. [[Sparkplug Witwicky]] would be captured by North Korean soldiers and forced to use his mechanical skills for them, but he secretly sabotaged the vehicles he was 'fixing'. He considered himself lucky they knew he had skills, or they might do unspecified, horrible things to him.{{storylink|The Last Stand}}

====IDW Comics continuity====

[[Kim Jong Du]] came to power and under his rule, North Korea began manufacturing [[energon]] in order to attract Decepticons as allies. They secured the services of the Combaticons and used them as the spearhead for an invasion of South Korea. {{storylink|International Incident Part 1: "The Land Ironclads"}} The Autobots were able to drive the Combaticons back there and tried to neutralise them on North Korean soil {{storylink|International Incident Part 3: "Hawk Among the Sparrows"}}, which they succeeded in doing: the battle caused [[Russia]] to launch a nuclear missile at the area though, which was only just intercepted. The problem was decisively resolved when the Autobots had [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] destroy all of North Korea's energon plants, preventing them from attracting any more Decepticons.

And apparently the country then got away with allying with hostile alien robots to invade places! {{storylink|International Incident Part 4: "All My Sins Remembered"}}

===Live-action movie continuity===
====Transformers (2007)====

Following the destruction of a [[SOCCENT Forward Operations Base]] and the subsequent hacking of the US Defence Network, North Korea was pointed to as one of the nations that might have dunnit. [[United States Navy|US naval forces]] were increased in the Yellow Sea as a result, and North Korea doubled its naval activity in response to that. In response to ''that'', a large number of US soldiers and armour were sent in the general direction of North Korea.

Once [[Tom Banachek]] informed the Pentagon about the alien nature of the threat, US forces were pulled back. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)}}

==External Links==

*[[wikipedia:North Korea|North Korea at Wikipedia]]

[[Category:Asia]]
[[Category: Countries of Earth]]
[[Category: Generation 1 locations]]
[[Category: Movie locations]]

Milky Way

2011-05-20T19:53:50Z

Tyrannolodon:

The '''Milky Way''' is the name the [[Human|fleshlings]] have given to the galaxy [[Earth]] occupies. It contains numerous stars and [[Solar system|solar systems]], including [[Sun|their own]].

<s>God</s> [[Primus]] only knows if [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in there or not.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1===
====Marvel Comics====
Cybertron originally orbited the [[sun]] known as [[Alpha Centauri]], located in the Milky Way. However, millennia of fighting dislodged it from the star's orbit.

====Cartoon====
Cybertron's original location is unknown, although [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] and [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]] seemingly flew from there to Earth under their own power millions of years ago. {{storylink|Fire in the Sky|Fire in the Sky}} In the 1980s, [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] and other Transformers often flew between the worlds without the aid of large ships or [[Space bridge|space bridges]]. This strongly implies that Cybertron is located in the Milky Way, or at the very least in one of its small satellite galaxies. {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction}} {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} {{storylink|War Dawn|War Dawn}}

====Dreamwave====
As in the Marvel comics, Cybertron orbits Alpha Centuari.

====IDW====
Cybertron is located in the Milky Way galaxy, somewhere in the direction of the constellation Scorpius.

===Unicron Trilogy===
According to [[Landmine (Energon)|Landmine]] Cybertron is "not that far from here (the Earth) galactically speaking."{{storylink|Fallen (episode)|Fallen}} This strongly implies that Cybertron is located in the Milky Way, or at the very least in one of its small satellite galaxies.

===Transformers (2007 movie)===
According to [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], he arrived in the Milky Way galaxy shortly before arriving on Earth, thus implying that Cybertron is located outside the Milky Way galaxy. {{storylink|Transformers: Beginnings|Transformers: Beginnings}}

===''Exodus'' novel===
When the ''[[Ark (Prime)|Ark]]'' left Cybertron through the last [[space bridge]], it emerged outside the Milky Way, and [[Prowl (Prime)|Prowl]] detected the [[AllSpark (Prime)|AllSpark]]. As the Milky Way is described as an unknown spiral galaxy, Cybertron was outside of it. {{storylink|Exodus: The Official History of the War for Cybertron}}

==External links==
*[[wikipedia:Milky_Way|Milky Way on Wikipedia]]

{{stub}}

[[Category:Space]]

Germany

2011-05-19T16:04:55Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:Hydra and buster human.jpg|right|225px|thumb|A typical group of Germans.]]

'''Germany''' is a country within [[Europe]], and a [[NATO]] member-state. It had a tough old life in the 20th Century, what with a major war in the 1910s, being overrun by [[Cobra]], starting another bigger war that ended with it getting the crap beaten out of it by the [[Soviet Union]], the [[United Kingdom]], the [[United States of America]], [[France]], and [[Canada]] and then, from [[1945]] to <strike>[[2011]]</strike> [[1990]], being split into the democratic West Germany and the [[Soviet Union]] allied East Germany.

It is bordered by [[Switzerland|Switz]], [[France]], [[Ciech]], [[Poland]] and [[Austria]].

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====Generation 1 cartoon====
[[Image:Europa 2000.jpg|left|thumb|Oh, well close enough.]]
Germany was found on a map made to show the route of the [[Europa 2000]], with the geographic borders being a ''slightly'' inaccurate depiction of real-life Germany's geography at that time. (For that matter, its division into East and West Germany, later alluded to in the [[Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|''Masterforce'' cartoon]], is not shown.) {{storylink|Trans-Europe Express}}

====''Super-God Masterforce'' cartoon====
The Decepticon [[Godmaster]]s [[Buster (Masterforce)|Buster]] and [[Hydra (Masterforce)|Hydra]] were both born in East Germany.

The Autobot Godmasters once searched Germany as a possible location for the last Godmaster. {{storylink|Assemble! The Four Godmaster Gunmen}}

When the Decepticons unleashed a full onslaught on Earth, Hydra and Buster targeted West Germany as part of a plan to split up the Autobot forces. [[Lightfoot]] and [[Road King]] took them on. {{storylink|God Ginrai: Showdown at the Decepticon Base}}
{{-}}

===Young Corgi continuity===
West Germany would presumably be part of the [[Federation of Western Europe]], in the near future of [[2000]]. {{storylink|Battle Beneath the Ice}}

===Dreamwave ''Generation One'' comics===
[[Rolf Myer]], a chemist from [[Berlin]], was part of the [[Ark II]] crew. Now he's ash in the atmosphere! {{storylink|Prime Directive issue 1}}

===''Transformers/G.I. Joe''===
Germany was briefly conquered by the might of [[Cobra]] and their Decepticon allies in [[1938]]. {{storylink|Transformers/G.I. Joe}}

===''Cybertron'' cartoon===
The German folklore tale of [[wikipedia:Lorelei|Lorelei]] and the [[wikipedia:Nix|Nix]], a Germanic equivalent of the legendary sirens, turned out to be based on the Decepticon [[Thunderblast (Decepticon)|Thunderblast]]. {{storylink|United (episode)|United}}

===Live-action film series===

====''Revenge of the Fallen'' film====

Germany was the first government to confirm to the media that [[the Fallen]]'s blackmail message was a satellite hijack. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

====Titan Magazines====
During [[1918]], as part of the [[World War I|First World War]], Germany was involved in naval warfare against the [[United States of America]]. Apparently the Germans had some ''damn'' impressive airplanes, because [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] was automatically assumed to be a German weapon! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.15|Making Waves}}

====IDW Comics====

During the [[World War II|Second World War]], Nazi Germany captured [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]] and reverse-engineered him at [[Castle Neuschwanstein]] to create transforming war machines of their own. They'd just completed their ultimate weapon, the [[Panzer-Giganten]], when a [[Sector Seven]] commando team raided the castle and freed Jetfire. Neuschwanstein was destroyed and everyone involved in the project killed, leaving Germany with no chance of restarting the project. {{storylink|Weapon (issue)|Weapon}}

==Notes==
[[Image:Holgerfath.jpg|right|thumb|200px|He loves us, each and every one.]]
* Germany is responsible for the glory of [[Holger Fath]]!
* German selective dog breeding brought us the German Shepherd in [[1899]], the alternate mode of [[K-9]].
* [[Condor Verlag]] reprinted Marvel stories in Germany, along with a variety of rather odd original text stories.
* To this date not a single Transformers Series, which premiered in Germany, was properly concluded by showing all episodes. You could argue that all 26 episodes of [[Beast Machines]] were shown, but the show itself was Part of the Beast Wars Continuity, from which Season 2 and 3 were never shown. Thanks for doing such a good Marketing Job over here Hasbro Germany!

==External links==
*[[Wikipedia:Germany|Germany]] on Wikipedia

[[Category:Cybertron locations]]
[[Category:European countries]]
[[Category:Generation 1 locations]]

Barrage cannon

2011-05-18T16:07:54Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:ROTF Prime guns.jpg|thumb|250px]]
When he's not shooting through [[Decepticon]] body armor with his [[Ion blaster]], slicing off heads with his [[Dual Energon Swords|battle blade]]s, or ripping their heads ''apart'' with his [[Energon Hooks]], [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] will use his '''barrage cannon''' against his opponents. With a range of up to sixty miles, the laser-sighted barrage cannon fires plutonium tipped warheads at a rate of 6 warheads per second (360 per minute, so 720 per minute from both guns), with each warhead carrying the equivalent of 3,000 lbs of TNT.<ref>[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</ref>

Remember that, people: Optimus Prime is carrying <strike>nukuler</strike> nuclear weapons to keep humanity safe from the Decepticons.

== Fiction ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' film ===
After [[Sam Witwicky]] was captured by the Decepticons, Optimus Prime and [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] arrived at the abandoned warehouse and fought with the Decepticons. While Bumblebee rescued Sam, [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] and [[Leo Spitz|Leo]], Optimus Prime battled against [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] using his barrage cannons. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

== Games ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' The Game ===
[[Image:ROTF_game_Optimus_Prime.jpg|thumb|300px|right|]]
==== Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC ====
'''Autobot Campaign'''

As primary weapon, Optimus Prime possessed the barrage cannons. His secondary weapon was a modified version of the same cannons. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

'''Decepticon Campaign'''

Optimus Prime used both versions of the barrage cannon against an opponent in the climactic battle. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

== Toys ==
=== Transformers (2007) ===
[[Image:Movie Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2007)
*'''Robo-Vision Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2007)
*'''Bumblebee and Optimus Prime''' (Argos exclusive two-pack, UK 2007)
*'''Battle damage three-pack''' (Sam's Club exclusive three-pack, 2007)
*'''First Strike Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2008)
*'''Freeway Brawl Optimus Prime (Two-Pack)''' ("Screen Battles" Voyager, 2008)
:Despite being introduced in Revenge of the Fallen, all versions of this mold already carried two cannons, which resembled barrage cannons.

[[Image:ROTF Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|200px|right|thumb|]]
=== Revenge of the Fallen ===
==== Voyager Class toys====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2009)
*'''Defender Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
*'''Jet Power Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, Canceled)
:As redecos of the 2007 molds, these versions also carried the barrage cannons.

=== Transformers (2010) ===
[[Image:TF2010 ROTF Voy BattleBladesOptimusPrime.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Battle Blades Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
:This new mold of Voyager Class carried a totally new, more [[show-accuracy|movie accurate]] version of the barrage cannons.

== Notes ==
* At the firing rate of 6 shots per second, range of 60 miles and the explosive equivalent of 1.36 tons of TNT per shell, '''Prime doesn't need any other weapons'''. This is a drastic change from the typically absurdly low statistics given by the Transformers Movie Guide, instead it has numbers that could give Warhammer 40,000 a run for it's money in over the top weaponry.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Cannons]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]

Barrage cannon

2011-05-18T16:07:10Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:ROTF Prime guns.jpg|thumb|250px]]
When he's not shooting through [[Decepticon]] body armor with his [[Ion blaster]], slicing off heads with his [[Dual Energon Swords|battle blade]]s, or ripping their heads ''apart'' with his [[Energon Hooks]], [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] will use his '''barrage cannon''' against his opponents. With a range of up to sixty miles, the laser-sighted barrage cannon fires plutonium tipped warheads at a rate of 6 warheads per second, with each warhead carrying the equivalent of 3,000 lbs of TNT.<ref>[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</ref>

Remember that, people: Optimus Prime is carrying <strike>nukuler</strike> nuclear weapons to keep humanity safe from the Decepticons.

== Fiction ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' film ===
After [[Sam Witwicky]] was captured by the Decepticons, Optimus Prime and [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] arrived at the abandoned warehouse and fought with the Decepticons. While Bumblebee rescued Sam, [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] and [[Leo Spitz|Leo]], Optimus Prime battled against [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] using his barrage cannons. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

== Games ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' The Game ===
[[Image:ROTF_game_Optimus_Prime.jpg|thumb|300px|right|]]
==== Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC ====
'''Autobot Campaign'''

As primary weapon, Optimus Prime possessed the barrage cannons. His secondary weapon was a modified version of the same cannons. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

'''Decepticon Campaign'''

Optimus Prime used both versions of the barrage cannon against an opponent in the climactic battle. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

== Toys ==
=== Transformers (2007) ===
[[Image:Movie Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2007)
*'''Robo-Vision Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2007)
*'''Bumblebee and Optimus Prime''' (Argos exclusive two-pack, UK 2007)
*'''Battle damage three-pack''' (Sam's Club exclusive three-pack, 2007)
*'''First Strike Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2008)
*'''Freeway Brawl Optimus Prime (Two-Pack)''' ("Screen Battles" Voyager, 2008)
:Despite being introduced in Revenge of the Fallen, all versions of this mold already carried two cannons, which resembled barrage cannons.

[[Image:ROTF Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|200px|right|thumb|]]
=== Revenge of the Fallen ===
==== Voyager Class toys====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2009)
*'''Defender Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
*'''Jet Power Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, Canceled)
:As redecos of the 2007 molds, these versions also carried the barrage cannons.

=== Transformers (2010) ===
[[Image:TF2010 ROTF Voy BattleBladesOptimusPrime.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Battle Blades Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
:This new mold of Voyager Class carried a totally new, more [[show-accuracy|movie accurate]] version of the barrage cannons.

== Notes ==
* At the firing rate of 6 shots per second, range of 60 miles and the explosive equivalent of 1.36 tons of TNT per shell, '''Prime doesn't need any other weapons'''. This is a drastic change from the typically absurdly low statistics given by the Transformers Movie Guide, instead it has numbers that could give Warhammer 40,000 a run for it's money in over the top weaponry.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Cannons]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]

Barrage cannon

2011-05-18T16:05:43Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Notes */

[[Image:ROTF Prime guns.jpg|thumb|250px]]
When he's not shooting through [[Decepticon]] body armor with his [[Ion blaster]] or slicing off heads with his [[Dual Energon Swords|battle blade]]s, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] will use his '''barrage cannon''' against his opponents. With a range of up to sixty miles, the laser-sighted barrage cannon fires plutonium tipped warheads at a rate of 6 warheads per second, with each warhead carrying the equivalent of 3,000 lbs of TNT.<ref>[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</ref>

Remember that, people: Optimus Prime is carrying <strike>nukuler</strike> nuclear weapons to keep humanity safe from the Decepticons.

== Fiction ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' film ===
After [[Sam Witwicky]] was captured by the Decepticons, Optimus Prime and [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] arrived at the abandoned warehouse and fought with the Decepticons. While Bumblebee rescued Sam, [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] and [[Leo Spitz|Leo]], Optimus Prime battled against [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] using his barrage cannons. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

== Games ==
=== ''Revenge of the Fallen'' The Game ===
[[Image:ROTF_game_Optimus_Prime.jpg|thumb|300px|right|]]
==== Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC ====
'''Autobot Campaign'''

As primary weapon, Optimus Prime possessed the barrage cannons. His secondary weapon was a modified version of the same cannons. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

'''Decepticon Campaign'''

Optimus Prime used both versions of the barrage cannon against an opponent in the climactic battle. {{Storylink|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

== Toys ==
=== Transformers (2007) ===
[[Image:Movie Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2007)
*'''Robo-Vision Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2007)
*'''Bumblebee and Optimus Prime''' (Argos exclusive two-pack, UK 2007)
*'''Battle damage three-pack''' (Sam's Club exclusive three-pack, 2007)
*'''First Strike Optimus Prime''' (Voyager Class, 2008)
*'''Freeway Brawl Optimus Prime (Two-Pack)''' ("Screen Battles" Voyager, 2008)
:Despite being introduced in Revenge of the Fallen, all versions of this mold already carried two cannons, which resembled barrage cannons.

[[Image:ROTF Voyager OptimusPrime toy.jpg|200px|right|thumb|]]
=== Revenge of the Fallen ===
==== Voyager Class toys====
*'''Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2009)
*'''Defender Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
*'''Jet Power Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, Canceled)
:As redecos of the 2007 molds, these versions also carried the barrage cannons.

=== Transformers (2010) ===
[[Image:TF2010 ROTF Voy BattleBladesOptimusPrime.jpg|thumb|right|250px]]
==== Voyager Class toys ====
*'''Battle Blades Optimus Prime''' (Voyager, 2010)
:This new mold of Voyager Class carried a totally new, more [[show-accuracy|movie accurate]] version of the barrage cannons.

== Notes ==
* At the firing rate of 6 shots per second, range of 60 miles and the explosive equivalent of 1.36 tons of TNT per shell, '''Prime doesn't need any other weapons'''. This is a drastic change from the typically absurdly low statistics given by the Transformers Movie Guide, instead it has numbers that could give Warhammer 40,000 a run for it's money in over the top weaponry.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Cannons]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen]]

Create-A-Bot (Decepticon)

2011-05-17T16:01:34Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Transformers Decepticons video game */

{{factions|decepticonfilm}}
{{picsneeded}}
{{disambig2|the Decepticon|his heroic counterpart|Create-A-Bot (Autobot)}}
:''Create-A-Bot is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Movie (franchise)|Movie]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Create-a-bot decepticon ds headshot.png|thumb|right|200px|I should've been called "Construct-A-Con."]]
The Decepticon "'''Create-A-Bot'''" is a rookie in the Decepticon army sent to [[Earth]] in search of the [[AllSpark (Movie)|All Spark]]. Under the tutelage of senior soldiers like [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], this new warrior can assume a wide variety of [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]] scanned from the [[Human|local life-forms']] vehicles in his fight against the [[Autobot|Autobots]].

{{note|Create-A-Bot's in-game name is chosen by the players of the [[Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|'''Transformers Decepticons''']] video game, and can be anything up to seven letters. "Create-A-Bot" is the name used in the credits, and thus, what is used here.}}

==Games==
===''Transformers Autobots'' video game===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Steve Blum]]

The first time the evil multi-former (named Unknown in this version, & in the form of a dark blue SUV) appears is as the first boss of the game (after his [[Create-A-Bot (Autobot)|Autobot equal]] destroys three drones as bait to destroy him), where he faces off against his identically voiced Autobot counterpart before the do-gooder can escape to Tranquility, despite that he is "No one to be trifled with". He is later seen when the Autobots eavesdrop on a conversation with Megatron in the Hoover Dam about the bombs planted on the Dam that could result in thousands of human casualties. {{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers Autobots}}

===''Transformers Decepticons'' video game===
Commanded by [[Starscream (Movie)|Lord Starscream]], Create-A-Bot arrived on Earth to locate the origin of a Decepticon distress beacon. At first, little information was divulged to the other Decepticons until Starscream arrived on Earth himself. In the meantime, Barricade reluctantly showed Create-A-Bot the ropes, and later put him in charge of the other Decepticons. After a long search through the Middle East, the Decepticons began to have suspicions that the lost Decepticon was in fact [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], who Create-A-Bot dismissed as a relic.

After the other Decepticons left Create-A-Bot to his own devices, Starscream finally arrived on Earth, personally greeting Create-A-Bot by nearly landing on him. Finally explaining his motives (in his own ass-backwards Starscream way) he lied through his teeth saying that releasing Megatron would cause the downfall of the Decepticons, and that the [[AllSpark (Movie)|All Spark]] was actually on Earth (which it was). He then explained (lying again this time) that he simply wanted the All Spark to prevent a power struggle as he would need his full attention on preventing Megatron's revival.

That didn't work.

Once Starscream got a hold of the All Spark, Create-A-Bot had already helped to liberate Megatron from his icy tomb and led him back to Tranquility, where the Decepticon tyrant and his NEW second-in-command would face off against the traitorous jetfighter. Starscream used the power of the All Spark to power himself up to new levels (ignoring the precedent of over-powered Starscreams inexplicably causing their own downfall) and attacked his former boss.

That didn't work either.

Outwitting the empowered Starscream, Create-A-Bot stole the All Spark from him and smashed him in the chest, weakening him enough to have his [[Spark]] extinguished by Megatron. Create-A-Bot would die on that spot, the backlash from the All Spark overpowering his circuits, but he died a warrior and a true Decepticon.

That didn't go over too well.

Megatron returned after Starscream's defeat only to watch and laugh as Create-A-Bot slowly died. As the young Decepticon pleaded to be repaired, Megatron would only say that his weakness was his downfall, and that all of the Decepticons who fell in battle were worthless pawns to be stripped away like rust. Create-A-Bot then watched in horror as Megatron leapt at him, tearing him apart. Megatron then went on to realize that his only remaining minion was Brawl...oh well, all the Autobots were dead too.{{storylink|Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers Decepticons}}
{{-}}

==Alt-Modes==
'''Cars'''

<center>
{|border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"
|-
|Beater
|Sportster
|[[Swindle (Movie)|Notchback]]
|Import
|Pickup Car
|Love Cruiser
|Stunt Car
|-
|Lightning Rider
|Tricked Out Car
|Racer
|Raider
|Speedster
|Hot Rodder
|Scout
|}</center>

'''Trucks'''

<center>
{|border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"
|-
|SUV
|[[Payload (Movie)|Armored Truck]]
|Peace Van
|[[Dropkick|Pickup]]
|Utility
|Moving Truck
|School Bus
|Flame Truck
|-
|Ice Cream Truck
|Death Truck
|Funky Bus
|Construction
|Prison Bus
|Off-Roader
|Safari Truck
|SWAT van
|}</center>

'''Aircraft'''

<center>
{|border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"
|-
|Chopper
|Attack Copter
|Recon Chopper
|Police Copter
|[[Blazemaster|News Copter]]
|Stealth Chopper
|[[Generation 1]] [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]
|}</center>

==Notes==
* Just like his heroic counterpart, Create-A-Bot can adapt into numerous forms that can change his status. Several of his forms cannot be accessed in the game, but can be obtained by earning WiFi points by playing ''Battle for the All Spark''.

{{charstub}}

[[Category:Movie Decepticons]]
[[Category:Video game-only characters]]

Scale

2011-05-17T15:20:20Z

Tyrannolodon: /* The 2007 Transformers movie */

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|300px|thumb|And the truck's how big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, [[Toy|toyline]] or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (There are, of course, a few [[#The rare exceptions|rare exceptions]], detailed below.) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process [[fanon|fanwank]] themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

{{bigquote|Clearly, the pitiful humans at Hasbro are so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of Cybertronian life forms that they can't get the scale right.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|[[Transformers Comic issue 23|Star Scream's #23]]}}

==Scale within toylines==

===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|right|350px|thumb|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]
The early [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[Redeco|redecoed]] toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other (though problems already arise with [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], whose [[alternate mode]]s are based on ''the same car'' yet are not quite the same size), but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys|Volkswagen Beetle]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)/toys|Porsche 935]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] such as [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]] (a hovercraft), who should be many times their actual size.

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]], who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 19.4 m (63.8 feet) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]], despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

Transformers are currently formalised to a variety of [[size class|size classes]], which dictate the approximate cost and dimensions of a figure. Consequently, if the powers that be release toys of two characters in the same line in the same size class, they're going to come out in the same size. Even if one character's a [[Starscream (Movie)|twenty-metre fighter jet]] and the other's a [[Ironhide (Movie)|five-metre pickup truck]]. So don't expect this one to go away any time soon.

===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically [[combiner|designed to interact with each other]] suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]] are wildly out of scale to each other—[[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]]'s [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]] mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr t282 1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Concorde|Concorde jet]]) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

Don't even ask about the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] with their [[Groove (G1)|motorcycle]] and [[Blades (G1)|helicopter]] limbs...

===Same alternate mode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) [[alternate mode]]s, but whose toys are different sizes. For example, [[Air Raid (G1)#Toys|the original Air Raid]] transforms into an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-15 Eagle|F-15 Eagle]], but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)/toys|the original Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Lamborghini Countach|Lamborghini Countach]] [[Breakdown (G1)#Toys|Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker (G1)#Toys|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)#Toys|Sideswipe]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other "[[Scramble City]]" combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Multiple scales of same character===
[[Image:Animated-toy MultipleSizeOptimusPrimes.jpg|right|270px|thumb|Oh great. And I thought ''Bulkhead'' was confused...]]

Starting with ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'', many franchises have released multiple versions of the same character in different [[size class]]es, most often the leader characters. Originally, the intent was apparently to make the popular [[Optimus (disambiguation)|Optimus]] and [[Megatron (disambiguation)|Megatron]] characters available at lower price points than just the large and expensive "Leader" class, so that children with less money would not miss out, and perhaps persuading [[completist]]-minded [[User:ItsWalky|collectors]] to buy multiple versions of one character.

While this introduces a nice range of options for the discerning collector, it can also lead to some problems. ''Beast Machines'', for example, featured three different [[Cheetor (BW)/toys|Cheetor toys]]. The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMSupreme|Supreme size toy]] was so large it could not interact with most of the other toys from the line (based on [[Beast Machines (cartoon)|the cartoon]], he's maaaaybe in scale with [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|Nightscream]] and [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], the later of whom wasn't released until three years later). The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMNSC|Deluxe Cheetor]], on the other hand, was too ''small'' to match scales with most of the other toys (again, using the cartoon as a yardstick). Anyone looking ''within'' the toyline for notions of a "correct" scale between the characters would be stymied by the multiple size classes and the lack of real-world scale references.

Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spy Changer]] incarnations of various ''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Movie (franchise)|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously.)

Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)#Supreme|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Image:G1 Broadside toy.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Kill me. Just... kill me now.]]

[[Triple Changer]]s create a whole new set of problems. The original [[Astrotrain (G1)#Toys|Astrotrain]] transforms from a 21-meter (70-foot) locomotive to a 56-meter (184-foot) [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]]. [[Octane#Toys|Octane]]'s original body transforms from a 20-meter (60-foot) tanker truck into a 65-meter (200-foot) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth fighter jet of indeterminate model (let's pretend for the sake of argument that he's supposed to be an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-14 Tomcat|F-14]] and say he's 18 meters (61 feet) long) with a mass of 33 tonnes into an entire ''aircraft carrier'', approximately 333 meters (1,092 feet) long with a mass of 100,000 tonnes assuming it's a Nimitz class, that's a size increase of over 15 times, and three thousand fold increase in mass.

The newer versions of Astrotrain and Octane (aka "Tankor"), while changing the specifics of their alternate modes, really don't improve on the general size disparity all that much.

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime]] has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[Show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)/toys|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)#Toys|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)#Toys|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be real-world [[human]]-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster (G1)#Toys|Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1)/toys#MasterpieceMegs|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Masterpiece Optimus Prime]]. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's unmistakably much larger than the real thing. (Not that this has stopped him being widely banned as a "realistic firearm replica"....)

===Fanciful altmodes===
Characters with alternate modes that are not meant to be replicas of real-world things (or at least, close enough to while being legally-distinct from said things) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertronian vehicles whose size we don't really know... or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all. The scale of characters such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|original Dinobots]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys|Hot Rod]] or [[Overhaul (Cybertron)#Voyager|Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters within the fiction, although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard (see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for [[human]]-sized passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome (G1)#Toys|Chromedome]] with [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)#Toys|Lightspeed]] suggests the scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the [[city-bot]] and planetbot toys (such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)#Toys|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron/toys|Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge [[Hasbro]] not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===Action Masters===
[[Image:Neutro-fusiontank.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Imagine [[:Image:ActionMaster Devastor.gif|Devastator]] in the passenger seat.]]

The [[:Category:Action Master vehicles|Action Master vehicles]] were designed to take advantage of the fact that the [[Action Master]] figures were all the same size. They can each pilot each other's vehicles or ride as a passenger. With the vehicles as a frame of reference, it seems we should take it as fact that all of the Action Masters are literally the same size, even characters such as Bumblebee and Devastator. Did Devastator shrink?

{{--}}

===The rare exceptions===
There have been precious few exceptions to all of this scale weirdness in the toys. However, the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus in perfect scale with each other, was the first to buck the trend. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] (Space Shuttle) toy in scale with the ''Alternator''s toys would be 1.6 meters (5.1 feet) long, while a [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (aircraft carrier) toy at that scale would be over 12 meters (40 feet)! Hasbro actually displayed [[Prototype|mock-ups]] for an unproduced line of "military" Transformers in scale with ''Alternators'' during the [[BotCon 2007]] Hasbro Tour; two of them recycled parts of ''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' [[Unicron/toys#Armada|Unicron]], and were thus [[Size class|Supreme-sized]], which made said potential toyline not particularly commercially viable for Hasbro.

The direct —and indirect— successors to ''Alternators'' would also maintain a mostly consistent internal scale. ''[[Alternators#Binaltech Asterisk|Binaltech Asterisk]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'' would make use of the same molds, only with added [[human]] female driver figures... which were woefully small compared to the cars they came with. This would repeat itself with the "[[Human Alliance]]" toys for ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; the cars/robots are all roughly the right size compared to each other ([[Skids (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Mudflap]] are even smaller, squatter toys and come with sub-[[size class|Basic]]-sized [[Arcee (Movie)#Human Alliance|motorcycle]] and [[Chromia (ROTF)#HumanAlliance|robots]] to make up for it), but their human drivers are all too small. (Amusingly, [[Frenzy (Movie)#Human Alliance|Frenzy]] seems to be about right.)

''[[Alternity (franchise)|Alternity]]'' would follow in ''Alternators''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s footsteps with a series of smaller 1:32-scale licensed cars... as well as stuffing [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Alternity|characters who traditionally don't have automobile alternate modes]] into modern-day civilian vehicles. That these toys represent hyper-evolved beings most of the time make it all the more head-scratch-inducing.

== Scale within fictions ==
Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. Some can be attributed to [[animation error]]s, such as layering problems,[[:Image:Tinybluestreak.jpg|1]][[:Image:Huge Ironhide and Small Ratchet.jpg|2]][[:Image:CarnageMiniBlaster.jpg|3]] but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Fictional scale vs. toy scale===
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Powerglide Astoria Marygoaround.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Actually, disturbing ''fiction'' is probably more of a concern than scale issues.]]

The original ''Transformers'' fictions often depict characters to the same relative scale as the toys, which duplicates the intra-toyline problems described above. The cartoon, for example, shows [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] as about the same height, [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s and Autobot cars as slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] as smaller yet. This scale was carried over to their vehicle forms, resulting in differently-sized cars that, based on real world measurements, should be virtually the same size.

For another example, the [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]] comics portrayed the [[Pretender]]s as literal interpretations of their toys: 60-foot humans with full-scale Transformers inside. The "disguise" aspect of this was later explained by having [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] and [[Cloudburst]] encounter [[Femax|giant, transformer-sized humanoids on an alien planet]] which made them appear to be of a "normal" scale.

[[Image:Omegasupreme astrotrain.jpg|right|200px|thumb|I know he's meant to be big, but holy ''crap'', dude!]]

Transformers fiction commonly shrinks or inflates characters, relative to their toy sizes. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most Minibots, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the [[Galvatron (G1)/toys|toy Galvatron]] is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realize that a [[redeco]] of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The cast of ''[[Beast Wars (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron#Toys|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a Tyrannosaurus rex but is shown in The Agenda Part 3, as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.
[[Image:Agenda3 MegatronOptimusPrime.jpg|right|250px|thumb|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (BW)#Beast Machines|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink|Prime Spark}})
{{-}}

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|200px|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]
In the otherwise fairly toy-scale-savvy [[Unicron Trilogy]], [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. Within the animation, this causes problems with their [[Mini-Con]] partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when shown directly interacting with their larger partners, are scaled up right along with their partner... resulting in some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

The Japanese ''[[Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]'' release of [[Metroplex (Cybertron)#Toys|Metroplex]], dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends Class|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/toys#MegaloConvoy|Optimus Prime toy]] to indicate the "correct" scale.

The ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]'' franchise has its share of scale problems when comparing its toyline to the cartoon (not helped by multiple releases of some characters in different sizes—see above), with several characters seeming roughly one [[size class]] too small, such as the [[Dinobot (Animated)|Dinobots]] being a mix of one Voyager size and two Deluxes, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)#Toys|Sentinel Prime]] looking rather diminutive as a Deluxe, and, most egregiously, [[Lugnut (Animated)#Toys|Lugnut]] as a ''very'' squat Voyager who's shorter than even some Deluxes. (As with [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Toys|Voyager-class Bulkhead]], more of his mass went into his width, plus his weapon takes away some from his robot mode.) Conversely, the traditionally stunted [[Bumblebee (Animated)#Toys|Bumblebee]] is marginally too tall and bulky to be in correct scale to his otherwise fairly accurate core teammates, assuming one includes [[Optimus Prime (Animated)#Voyager|Voyager Optimus]] and [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Leader|Leader Bulkhead]] in their lineup. In fact, ''Animated'' is one of those toylines where you're not quite sure who you're supposed to base correct scale on.

===Inconsistent portrayal===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|left|175px|thumb|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll...]]
[[Image:Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg|right|200px|thumb|...too late.]]
Even if a size was decided on, it often didn't remain consistent. The height of the cartoon's [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], just to name one, frequently varied between episodes.

The [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] and [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] vary in height relative to [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. A panel in the "[[Time Wars (issue)|Time Wars]]" shows [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his original appearance, {{storylink|Command Performances!}} shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average Transformer. [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] suffered a similar problem, shrinking in size even though he was explicitly rebuilt to be twice as tall as the average Transformer.

Scale can even be inconsistent within the same story thanks to changing artists: In the Marvel UK story "[[Ladies' Night]]", a ginormous [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] picks up a tiiiiny military Jeep with one hand, implying that he grew to humongous proportions when he transformed (as his alternate mode is ''also'' depicted as a Jeep in fiction), but in the second part of the story, Swindle is hit by a burning Jeep (possibly even the same one) that is now in scale with his robot mode. {{storylink|Ladies' Night}} It can even happen within the same issue without an artist change: In [[IDW Publishing|IDW's]] ''[[Spotlight: Soundwave]]'', there's a scene where a [[Hiro|human]] picks up [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] in his tape deck mode, which is smaller than a thick comic book slipcase in his hands. A few pages later, [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] picks up Soundwave out of the human's hands, being barely able to hold the tape deck in his mouth, making Laserbeak about the size of a large dog (not counting the wings). Yet when [[Skywatch]] discovers Laserbeak at the end of the story, his ''head'' alone is suddenly the size of an adult human. {{storylink|Spotlight: Soundwave}}

[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
Between the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink|Master Blaster|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

===Explicit size changes===
{{main|size changing}}

Numerous characters are explicitly shown to shrink or expand at various times.

====Human-scaled alternate modes====
[[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] becomes a human-scale radio; [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] shrinks into a handgun scaled for either Transformer or human hands, depending on the situation. The cartoons and comics typically show this without explanation, leaving the audience to attribute it to advanced alien technology.

====Pretenders====
Some versions of the [[Pretender]]s are shown to explicitly shrink when hiding in their human-sized outer shells. In the U.S. toy commercials, [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], and [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in [[Powermaster]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]'s hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized. ''[[Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.

===Implicit size changes===
Characters often change size in a less explicit fashion when transforming. These changes in scale are usually attributed to size-changing by that portion of the fan base who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the artists hoped the audience wouldn't notice. It can also be supposed that they are hiding their mass somewhere (car style Transformers storing mass in their passenger compartments when in humanoid form, [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] folding his wings flat, the buildings in a city-bot collapsing to eliminate the spaces normally occupied by humans, boat-bots filling up or getting rid of the vast empty areas used to provide buoyancy) or puffing up with empty space, but at a certain point, things just get silly. Some Transformers are smaller than solid blocks of the mass contained in their alt modes: [[Unicron]] would have to be about as thick as the [[Earth]]'s crust while in planetary form, and [[Optimus Prime (disambiguation)|Optimus Prime]] would probably be blown away by a stiff breeze in his larger incarnations.

====Transport characters====
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|thumb|right|180px|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Ironhide carried into Ratchet.jpg|thumb|right|180px|...And not to [[Ironhide (G1)|mention]] [[Ratchet (G1)|this]].]]

In the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]], Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers, such as [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]], [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], and [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]], will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. For example, Cosmos is ''much'' shorter than [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] in robot form; yet Blaster easily fits within his spacecraft mode. Likewise, a whole squad of Decepticons can fit into Astrotrain's shuttle mode easily (including the combined-form [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]!), yet he's an ordinary-sized trooper in his robot form.

Sometimes the cartoon would show ordinarily-scaled characters such as [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]] or [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] carrying another Transformer in their cockpit, implying either a tiny passenger or a huge vehicle. Even [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], who is supposed to be huge, would have to have a greatly expanded scale for his rocket ship component to accommodate passengers as shown on the cartoon.

The Marvel comics commonly sidestepped this issue by not using Transformers as transport characters, or else requiring the passengers to transform into their explicitly smaller forms to be carried. Yet they were not immune to this problem. In one story, the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now much smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored. {{storylink|Guess Who the Mecannibals Are Having for Dinner?}}

[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' series of [[bio]] comics tried to explain this for characters such as Astrotrain and [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] by saying they're able to expand themselves to increase cargo space in vehicle mode, though their armor becomes thinner as it is spread out more. Conversely, the series notes, in robot mode, all that armor and structure being compressed into a smaller form makes that mode stronger and more durable for combat.

This concept is lampshaded in the credits of [[Transformers:_War_for_Cybertron|WFC]], where [[Bumblebee_(Prime)|Bumblebee]] pulls up, and the entire Autobot cast of the game step out of his passenger door, clown car style.

====Combiner characters====
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]
[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

Sometimes, they are even out of scale in their own team; [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]]'s torso is an [[Onslaught (G1)|anti-aircraft truck]], while one of his limbs is a [[Blast Off (G1)|Space Shuttle]] and another is a [[Swindle (G1)|two-person offroad vehicle]]. For this to work, either Blast Off has to shrink, or Swindle needs to grow.

====Scale problems and size-changing====
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

===Undersized alternate modes===
Many Transformers are portrayed in fiction as having alternate modes that are smaller than the real-life objects they are imitating. Sometimes this is deliberate, allowing them to match their toy scale and/or be of a similar size to other characters; in other cases, it is essentially an artistic error.

Toys at the lowest price points usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name. [[Mini Vehicle]]s [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]], [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]], and [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] are usually depicted as smaller than other Transformers in fiction, even though their alternate modes should have them towering over other characters. This often results in minuscule vehicle forms; Seaspray is a tiny hovercraft, despite being covered with doors and windows. (Conversely, if a new toy based on such a [[character]] is designed to be more in scale with other toys, such as [[Universe (2008 toyline)|2008 ''Universe'']] Ultra Class Powerglide or [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|2010 ''Transformers'']] Voyager Class [[Sea Spray]], some [[fandom|fans]] complain ''because they expect those new toys to reflect the original toys' sizes'' and, by extension, the [[show-accuracy|depiction in fiction]].)

[[Image:Hotrodpatrolcommercial.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Do you have change for four hot rods?]]
The [[Micromaster]]s are explicitly downsized Transformers, roughly the size of a human in the comics, meaning that they ''should'' have explicitly tiny vehicle modes... which wouldn't make for very convincing disguises. The Micromasters are about the same height in robot mode, but they transform into equally tiny cars, trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes.

Despite this, the Marvel comic featured [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] carrying a human passenger in his vehicle form, as though he were a full-sized car. The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Transformers: Micromasters|Micromasters]]'' suggested that the Micromasters were scaled down to interact more easily with "smaller beings". Whether that meant creatures of human scale or even smaller stature is never clarified, but the Micromasters' passenger compartments are presumably too small to accommodate human passengers.

The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock (Armada)|Sureshock]], and [[High Wire (Armada)|High Wire]], who become small one-man conveyances.) This results from the Mini-Cons scanning normal vehicles and then resizing them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing or that their cockpits are kinda cramped. Though the Recon Team all originate from Gigantion, and seeing how partnered Mini-Cons seem to change size to fit their larger companions, a little size shift to accomodate a passenger doesn't seem too far-fetched compared to other scale issues.

Likewise, the [[Beast Era]] Maximals and Predacons possess roughly human-size bodies; yet when portrayed as vehicles on Cybertron ("[[Dawn of Future's Past]]", the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''), they feature seats and cockpits that, at their size, should be basically useless.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|left|200px|thumb|If you were ever this big in the cartoon, then we might call you a city.]]
[[Image:HeadmastersScale.jpg|right|200px|thumb|See above. Way, way, way above.]]
[[City-bot|A few characters]] have "city" alternate modes. As actual real-life cities can sprawl for many miles, a [[city-bot]] that can notionally house a population of humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, should have a robot-mode that'd make Godzilla look like a gecko. Suffice to say, almost no fiction even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "city-bot". In the American and Japanese cartoons, all four were shown as massive robots capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Even so, it would take something along the lines of the grossly undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) even to begin to represent reasonably the colossal size of a transformed city; so in the context of Transformers, "city" is perhaps better read as "building" or "fortress".

These city-bots often have "small" robots forming vital components. Scorponok has a "human-sized" being forming his head. [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six-Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such.

The Marvel Generation 1 comic sidestepped this issue by depicting Trypticon, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters. However, Metroplex, during his one, brief appearance, was depicted as being immensely larger, crushing Quintesson attack cruisers under foot without batting an eyelid. He was still considerably smaller than a city, however, but this was justified by him merely serving as the 'transformation core' for Autobot City: Earth, not the actual city itself.
{{-}}

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge France into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]
Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout ''Generation 1'' with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.''-style arcologies) sized for 10 m (30') robots, Cybertron would still be less than 150km (100 miles) across. The rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable. (Some people reason that the Transformers' advanced technology, along with their large size and their not needing to breathe, means that buildings actually CAN be that big.)

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation (and really, what possible reason would he have to become ''smaller''?), in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. [[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Either Galvy is humungo, or Lithone is tiiinyyy!!!]]Scenes in the [[The Transformers: The Movie|1986 movie]] in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, impaling [[Brainstorm]] on his fingernail, {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. Not to mention that he's described as a "''ginormous'' weird-lookin' planet," which would lead one to assume that he is ''significantly'' larger than your average-sized weird-lookin' planet. Thank you, [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]]. Thank you so much.

If Cybertron is the size of Earth's moon (and that's generous, we're going to dismiss the assertion that Unicron and Cybertron are Jupiter sized out of hand as silly), and Unicron is about the size of Cybertron, his hands would be about the size of Europe and Galvatron (to the right) would be about the size of Denmark.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada (franchise)|Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing one of them. {{storylink|Sideways (RID)|Sideways}} Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

As a side note, Unicron has been established in some continuities as having already devoured approximately 22.56% of known universes which is truly hilarious if one takes actual planetary/galactic scale into consideration. Assuming that Unicron is ''generously'' close to the size of our moon or the planet Mercury, when compared to other stellar bodies he begins to show up as an all but invisible speck. Imagine him trying to devour a star the size of [http://www.kiroastro.com/writings/perspective Betelgeuse]! Even if we assumed that he is indeed the size of Jupiter as the fiction likes to assert he would not be able to consume anything larger than a planet.

Of course, the fact that Unicron uses the [[Chaos Virus]] to reduce the universes he predates on into a more nommable form once he's done eating all the planets makes this point null.

===Oversized alternate modes===
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I'm tellin' ya, all da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]
Much less common are instances of a Transformer turning into an overscaled real-world object. Most such instances occur in the ''Beast Wars'' era.

Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal (or female) gorilla. However [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a T. Rex. In their interactions with adult [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size, which is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt modes the ''right'' size.

===Artistic license===
====Variation for characterization====
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|left|150px|thumb|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]
Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall {{storylink|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and running up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink|B.O.T. (episode)|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

{{-}}

====Intentionally strange scale====
[[Image:MarvelUS-01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|One side makes you larger, one side makes you small. (Op's been noshing on the first side too much.)]]
Sometimes artists draw a character at a different size [[Authorial intent|intentionally]]. For example, on the cover of the [[The Transformers (issue)|first issue]] of [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|the original ''Transformers'' comics series]], Optimus Prime is extremely huge compared to the highway, bridge, and normal cars. ([[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] is bigger than usual, too.) This is purely for dramatic effect.

Another notable example is the splash screen for the "[http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the TRANSFORMERS]" website, which depicts [[Optimus Primal]] (in his original gorilla body) as the same size as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|G1 Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Optimus Prime]], directly contradicting the size difference seen in "[[Optimal Situation]]" and elsewhere (except for ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'').

Artwork for the [[:Image:VaderVsPrime.jpg|''Star Wars'']] subline features [[:Image:Megatronvsluke.jpg|humans from another galaxy]] standing at the same height as Transformers, although this is simply because most of the figures in [[Attacktix|the tabletop game advertised by this artwork]] are the same size.

[[Image:World of the Transformers ent.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Meet the Supreme class <s>[[Trukk not munky|Munky]]</s> Optimus Primal.]]
{{-}}

===The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. Riiight.]]
The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode (though he is quite widely built, this doesn't prevent Grindor, who shouldn't be more than a foot or two taller than Blackout from being about one and a half times taller than Optimus.)

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. The [[Movie (toyline)|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]], such as [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. However, many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Bumblebee]] are ''obviously'' not the same scale. Even more oddly, the vehicle modes of Classic Camaro Bumblebee and Concept Camaro Bumblebee are not the same scale, yet their robot heads are the same size (albeit different sculpts).

[[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]] is another point of topic here. Whilst in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|film]], they worked on keeping his size relative to those of his components, in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|game]] he was far larger.

{{-}}

==Official scale guides ==
[[Image:Tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Official Scale Guides of ''The Transformers'']]
[[Image:Beastwarsscalepreliminary.jpg|right|250px|thumb|''Beast Wars'' Season 1 scale guide]]
Animators and comic book artists received official scale guides showing relative and (in some cases) absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guides ''[[The Ark: A Complete Compendium of Character Designs|The Ark]]'' and ''[[The Ark II — A Compendium of Japanese Character Designs|The Ark II]].'' Though they were sometimes ignored, they still give insight into the official scale of characters in Generation 1. However, even here, there are problems. Devastator in the Season One scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by Season Two he was somewhat less than twice Prime's height.

''Beast Wars'' likewise had an official scale guide, which appeared as a bonus on the DVD set of Season 2. Despite this guide, the series writers have indicated some measure of disregard for relative scale, when it suited the needs of dramatic tension.<ref>[http://builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/m-botcon.html BotCon 98 report - see "ON THE SIZES OF CHARACTERS"]</ref> Thus, Optimal Optimus is ''ungodly'' tall in his first appearance, later reduced to perhaps two times the height of the rest of the cast.

[[Image:ROTF Autobot scale guide 1.jpg|thumb|right|''ROTF'' scale guide]]

''[[Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' had scale guides featured in the ''25 years of Transformers'' feature for the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)/home video|DVD release]] which showed official heights for both the Autobots and the Decepticons. Meaning [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] gains an extra twelve feet when he wears [[Jetfire (ROTF)|a corpse]].

{{-}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]

[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Toys]]
[[Category:Things that don't exist]]

Scale

2011-05-17T15:18:41Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Planets and planetbots */

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|300px|thumb|And the truck's how big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, [[Toy|toyline]] or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (There are, of course, a few [[#The rare exceptions|rare exceptions]], detailed below.) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process [[fanon|fanwank]] themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

{{bigquote|Clearly, the pitiful humans at Hasbro are so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of Cybertronian life forms that they can't get the scale right.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|[[Transformers Comic issue 23|Star Scream's #23]]}}

==Scale within toylines==

===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|right|350px|thumb|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]
The early [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[Redeco|redecoed]] toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other (though problems already arise with [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], whose [[alternate mode]]s are based on ''the same car'' yet are not quite the same size), but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys|Volkswagen Beetle]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)/toys|Porsche 935]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] such as [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]] (a hovercraft), who should be many times their actual size.

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]], who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 19.4 m (63.8 feet) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]], despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

Transformers are currently formalised to a variety of [[size class|size classes]], which dictate the approximate cost and dimensions of a figure. Consequently, if the powers that be release toys of two characters in the same line in the same size class, they're going to come out in the same size. Even if one character's a [[Starscream (Movie)|twenty-metre fighter jet]] and the other's a [[Ironhide (Movie)|five-metre pickup truck]]. So don't expect this one to go away any time soon.

===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically [[combiner|designed to interact with each other]] suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]] are wildly out of scale to each other—[[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]]'s [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]] mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr t282 1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Concorde|Concorde jet]]) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

Don't even ask about the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] with their [[Groove (G1)|motorcycle]] and [[Blades (G1)|helicopter]] limbs...

===Same alternate mode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) [[alternate mode]]s, but whose toys are different sizes. For example, [[Air Raid (G1)#Toys|the original Air Raid]] transforms into an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-15 Eagle|F-15 Eagle]], but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)/toys|the original Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Lamborghini Countach|Lamborghini Countach]] [[Breakdown (G1)#Toys|Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker (G1)#Toys|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)#Toys|Sideswipe]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other "[[Scramble City]]" combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Multiple scales of same character===
[[Image:Animated-toy MultipleSizeOptimusPrimes.jpg|right|270px|thumb|Oh great. And I thought ''Bulkhead'' was confused...]]

Starting with ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'', many franchises have released multiple versions of the same character in different [[size class]]es, most often the leader characters. Originally, the intent was apparently to make the popular [[Optimus (disambiguation)|Optimus]] and [[Megatron (disambiguation)|Megatron]] characters available at lower price points than just the large and expensive "Leader" class, so that children with less money would not miss out, and perhaps persuading [[completist]]-minded [[User:ItsWalky|collectors]] to buy multiple versions of one character.

While this introduces a nice range of options for the discerning collector, it can also lead to some problems. ''Beast Machines'', for example, featured three different [[Cheetor (BW)/toys|Cheetor toys]]. The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMSupreme|Supreme size toy]] was so large it could not interact with most of the other toys from the line (based on [[Beast Machines (cartoon)|the cartoon]], he's maaaaybe in scale with [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|Nightscream]] and [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], the later of whom wasn't released until three years later). The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMNSC|Deluxe Cheetor]], on the other hand, was too ''small'' to match scales with most of the other toys (again, using the cartoon as a yardstick). Anyone looking ''within'' the toyline for notions of a "correct" scale between the characters would be stymied by the multiple size classes and the lack of real-world scale references.

Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spy Changer]] incarnations of various ''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Movie (franchise)|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously.)

Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)#Supreme|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Image:G1 Broadside toy.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Kill me. Just... kill me now.]]

[[Triple Changer]]s create a whole new set of problems. The original [[Astrotrain (G1)#Toys|Astrotrain]] transforms from a 21-meter (70-foot) locomotive to a 56-meter (184-foot) [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]]. [[Octane#Toys|Octane]]'s original body transforms from a 20-meter (60-foot) tanker truck into a 65-meter (200-foot) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth fighter jet of indeterminate model (let's pretend for the sake of argument that he's supposed to be an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-14 Tomcat|F-14]] and say he's 18 meters (61 feet) long) with a mass of 33 tonnes into an entire ''aircraft carrier'', approximately 333 meters (1,092 feet) long with a mass of 100,000 tonnes assuming it's a Nimitz class, that's a size increase of over 15 times, and three thousand fold increase in mass.

The newer versions of Astrotrain and Octane (aka "Tankor"), while changing the specifics of their alternate modes, really don't improve on the general size disparity all that much.

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime]] has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[Show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)/toys|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)#Toys|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)#Toys|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be real-world [[human]]-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster (G1)#Toys|Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1)/toys#MasterpieceMegs|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Masterpiece Optimus Prime]]. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's unmistakably much larger than the real thing. (Not that this has stopped him being widely banned as a "realistic firearm replica"....)

===Fanciful altmodes===
Characters with alternate modes that are not meant to be replicas of real-world things (or at least, close enough to while being legally-distinct from said things) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertronian vehicles whose size we don't really know... or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all. The scale of characters such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|original Dinobots]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys|Hot Rod]] or [[Overhaul (Cybertron)#Voyager|Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters within the fiction, although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard (see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for [[human]]-sized passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome (G1)#Toys|Chromedome]] with [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)#Toys|Lightspeed]] suggests the scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the [[city-bot]] and planetbot toys (such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)#Toys|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron/toys|Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge [[Hasbro]] not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===Action Masters===
[[Image:Neutro-fusiontank.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Imagine [[:Image:ActionMaster Devastor.gif|Devastator]] in the passenger seat.]]

The [[:Category:Action Master vehicles|Action Master vehicles]] were designed to take advantage of the fact that the [[Action Master]] figures were all the same size. They can each pilot each other's vehicles or ride as a passenger. With the vehicles as a frame of reference, it seems we should take it as fact that all of the Action Masters are literally the same size, even characters such as Bumblebee and Devastator. Did Devastator shrink?

{{--}}

===The rare exceptions===
There have been precious few exceptions to all of this scale weirdness in the toys. However, the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus in perfect scale with each other, was the first to buck the trend. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] (Space Shuttle) toy in scale with the ''Alternator''s toys would be 1.6 meters (5.1 feet) long, while a [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (aircraft carrier) toy at that scale would be over 12 meters (40 feet)! Hasbro actually displayed [[Prototype|mock-ups]] for an unproduced line of "military" Transformers in scale with ''Alternators'' during the [[BotCon 2007]] Hasbro Tour; two of them recycled parts of ''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' [[Unicron/toys#Armada|Unicron]], and were thus [[Size class|Supreme-sized]], which made said potential toyline not particularly commercially viable for Hasbro.

The direct —and indirect— successors to ''Alternators'' would also maintain a mostly consistent internal scale. ''[[Alternators#Binaltech Asterisk|Binaltech Asterisk]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'' would make use of the same molds, only with added [[human]] female driver figures... which were woefully small compared to the cars they came with. This would repeat itself with the "[[Human Alliance]]" toys for ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; the cars/robots are all roughly the right size compared to each other ([[Skids (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Mudflap]] are even smaller, squatter toys and come with sub-[[size class|Basic]]-sized [[Arcee (Movie)#Human Alliance|motorcycle]] and [[Chromia (ROTF)#HumanAlliance|robots]] to make up for it), but their human drivers are all too small. (Amusingly, [[Frenzy (Movie)#Human Alliance|Frenzy]] seems to be about right.)

''[[Alternity (franchise)|Alternity]]'' would follow in ''Alternators''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s footsteps with a series of smaller 1:32-scale licensed cars... as well as stuffing [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Alternity|characters who traditionally don't have automobile alternate modes]] into modern-day civilian vehicles. That these toys represent hyper-evolved beings most of the time make it all the more head-scratch-inducing.

== Scale within fictions ==
Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. Some can be attributed to [[animation error]]s, such as layering problems,[[:Image:Tinybluestreak.jpg|1]][[:Image:Huge Ironhide and Small Ratchet.jpg|2]][[:Image:CarnageMiniBlaster.jpg|3]] but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Fictional scale vs. toy scale===
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Powerglide Astoria Marygoaround.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Actually, disturbing ''fiction'' is probably more of a concern than scale issues.]]

The original ''Transformers'' fictions often depict characters to the same relative scale as the toys, which duplicates the intra-toyline problems described above. The cartoon, for example, shows [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] as about the same height, [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s and Autobot cars as slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] as smaller yet. This scale was carried over to their vehicle forms, resulting in differently-sized cars that, based on real world measurements, should be virtually the same size.

For another example, the [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]] comics portrayed the [[Pretender]]s as literal interpretations of their toys: 60-foot humans with full-scale Transformers inside. The "disguise" aspect of this was later explained by having [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] and [[Cloudburst]] encounter [[Femax|giant, transformer-sized humanoids on an alien planet]] which made them appear to be of a "normal" scale.

[[Image:Omegasupreme astrotrain.jpg|right|200px|thumb|I know he's meant to be big, but holy ''crap'', dude!]]

Transformers fiction commonly shrinks or inflates characters, relative to their toy sizes. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most Minibots, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the [[Galvatron (G1)/toys|toy Galvatron]] is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realize that a [[redeco]] of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The cast of ''[[Beast Wars (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron#Toys|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a Tyrannosaurus rex but is shown in The Agenda Part 3, as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.
[[Image:Agenda3 MegatronOptimusPrime.jpg|right|250px|thumb|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (BW)#Beast Machines|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink|Prime Spark}})
{{-}}

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|200px|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]
In the otherwise fairly toy-scale-savvy [[Unicron Trilogy]], [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. Within the animation, this causes problems with their [[Mini-Con]] partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when shown directly interacting with their larger partners, are scaled up right along with their partner... resulting in some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

The Japanese ''[[Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]'' release of [[Metroplex (Cybertron)#Toys|Metroplex]], dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends Class|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/toys#MegaloConvoy|Optimus Prime toy]] to indicate the "correct" scale.

The ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]'' franchise has its share of scale problems when comparing its toyline to the cartoon (not helped by multiple releases of some characters in different sizes—see above), with several characters seeming roughly one [[size class]] too small, such as the [[Dinobot (Animated)|Dinobots]] being a mix of one Voyager size and two Deluxes, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)#Toys|Sentinel Prime]] looking rather diminutive as a Deluxe, and, most egregiously, [[Lugnut (Animated)#Toys|Lugnut]] as a ''very'' squat Voyager who's shorter than even some Deluxes. (As with [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Toys|Voyager-class Bulkhead]], more of his mass went into his width, plus his weapon takes away some from his robot mode.) Conversely, the traditionally stunted [[Bumblebee (Animated)#Toys|Bumblebee]] is marginally too tall and bulky to be in correct scale to his otherwise fairly accurate core teammates, assuming one includes [[Optimus Prime (Animated)#Voyager|Voyager Optimus]] and [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Leader|Leader Bulkhead]] in their lineup. In fact, ''Animated'' is one of those toylines where you're not quite sure who you're supposed to base correct scale on.

===Inconsistent portrayal===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|left|175px|thumb|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll...]]
[[Image:Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg|right|200px|thumb|...too late.]]
Even if a size was decided on, it often didn't remain consistent. The height of the cartoon's [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], just to name one, frequently varied between episodes.

The [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] and [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] vary in height relative to [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. A panel in the "[[Time Wars (issue)|Time Wars]]" shows [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his original appearance, {{storylink|Command Performances!}} shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average Transformer. [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] suffered a similar problem, shrinking in size even though he was explicitly rebuilt to be twice as tall as the average Transformer.

Scale can even be inconsistent within the same story thanks to changing artists: In the Marvel UK story "[[Ladies' Night]]", a ginormous [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] picks up a tiiiiny military Jeep with one hand, implying that he grew to humongous proportions when he transformed (as his alternate mode is ''also'' depicted as a Jeep in fiction), but in the second part of the story, Swindle is hit by a burning Jeep (possibly even the same one) that is now in scale with his robot mode. {{storylink|Ladies' Night}} It can even happen within the same issue without an artist change: In [[IDW Publishing|IDW's]] ''[[Spotlight: Soundwave]]'', there's a scene where a [[Hiro|human]] picks up [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] in his tape deck mode, which is smaller than a thick comic book slipcase in his hands. A few pages later, [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] picks up Soundwave out of the human's hands, being barely able to hold the tape deck in his mouth, making Laserbeak about the size of a large dog (not counting the wings). Yet when [[Skywatch]] discovers Laserbeak at the end of the story, his ''head'' alone is suddenly the size of an adult human. {{storylink|Spotlight: Soundwave}}

[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
Between the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink|Master Blaster|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

===Explicit size changes===
{{main|size changing}}

Numerous characters are explicitly shown to shrink or expand at various times.

====Human-scaled alternate modes====
[[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] becomes a human-scale radio; [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] shrinks into a handgun scaled for either Transformer or human hands, depending on the situation. The cartoons and comics typically show this without explanation, leaving the audience to attribute it to advanced alien technology.

====Pretenders====
Some versions of the [[Pretender]]s are shown to explicitly shrink when hiding in their human-sized outer shells. In the U.S. toy commercials, [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], and [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in [[Powermaster]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]'s hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized. ''[[Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.

===Implicit size changes===
Characters often change size in a less explicit fashion when transforming. These changes in scale are usually attributed to size-changing by that portion of the fan base who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the artists hoped the audience wouldn't notice. It can also be supposed that they are hiding their mass somewhere (car style Transformers storing mass in their passenger compartments when in humanoid form, [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] folding his wings flat, the buildings in a city-bot collapsing to eliminate the spaces normally occupied by humans, boat-bots filling up or getting rid of the vast empty areas used to provide buoyancy) or puffing up with empty space, but at a certain point, things just get silly. Some Transformers are smaller than solid blocks of the mass contained in their alt modes: [[Unicron]] would have to be about as thick as the [[Earth]]'s crust while in planetary form, and [[Optimus Prime (disambiguation)|Optimus Prime]] would probably be blown away by a stiff breeze in his larger incarnations.

====Transport characters====
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|thumb|right|180px|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Ironhide carried into Ratchet.jpg|thumb|right|180px|...And not to [[Ironhide (G1)|mention]] [[Ratchet (G1)|this]].]]

In the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]], Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers, such as [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]], [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], and [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]], will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. For example, Cosmos is ''much'' shorter than [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] in robot form; yet Blaster easily fits within his spacecraft mode. Likewise, a whole squad of Decepticons can fit into Astrotrain's shuttle mode easily (including the combined-form [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]!), yet he's an ordinary-sized trooper in his robot form.

Sometimes the cartoon would show ordinarily-scaled characters such as [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]] or [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] carrying another Transformer in their cockpit, implying either a tiny passenger or a huge vehicle. Even [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], who is supposed to be huge, would have to have a greatly expanded scale for his rocket ship component to accommodate passengers as shown on the cartoon.

The Marvel comics commonly sidestepped this issue by not using Transformers as transport characters, or else requiring the passengers to transform into their explicitly smaller forms to be carried. Yet they were not immune to this problem. In one story, the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now much smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored. {{storylink|Guess Who the Mecannibals Are Having for Dinner?}}

[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' series of [[bio]] comics tried to explain this for characters such as Astrotrain and [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] by saying they're able to expand themselves to increase cargo space in vehicle mode, though their armor becomes thinner as it is spread out more. Conversely, the series notes, in robot mode, all that armor and structure being compressed into a smaller form makes that mode stronger and more durable for combat.

This concept is lampshaded in the credits of [[Transformers:_War_for_Cybertron|WFC]], where [[Bumblebee_(Prime)|Bumblebee]] pulls up, and the entire Autobot cast of the game step out of his passenger door, clown car style.

====Combiner characters====
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]
[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

Sometimes, they are even out of scale in their own team; [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]]'s torso is an [[Onslaught (G1)|anti-aircraft truck]], while one of his limbs is a [[Blast Off (G1)|Space Shuttle]] and another is a [[Swindle (G1)|two-person offroad vehicle]]. For this to work, either Blast Off has to shrink, or Swindle needs to grow.

====Scale problems and size-changing====
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

===Undersized alternate modes===
Many Transformers are portrayed in fiction as having alternate modes that are smaller than the real-life objects they are imitating. Sometimes this is deliberate, allowing them to match their toy scale and/or be of a similar size to other characters; in other cases, it is essentially an artistic error.

Toys at the lowest price points usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name. [[Mini Vehicle]]s [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]], [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]], and [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] are usually depicted as smaller than other Transformers in fiction, even though their alternate modes should have them towering over other characters. This often results in minuscule vehicle forms; Seaspray is a tiny hovercraft, despite being covered with doors and windows. (Conversely, if a new toy based on such a [[character]] is designed to be more in scale with other toys, such as [[Universe (2008 toyline)|2008 ''Universe'']] Ultra Class Powerglide or [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|2010 ''Transformers'']] Voyager Class [[Sea Spray]], some [[fandom|fans]] complain ''because they expect those new toys to reflect the original toys' sizes'' and, by extension, the [[show-accuracy|depiction in fiction]].)

[[Image:Hotrodpatrolcommercial.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Do you have change for four hot rods?]]
The [[Micromaster]]s are explicitly downsized Transformers, roughly the size of a human in the comics, meaning that they ''should'' have explicitly tiny vehicle modes... which wouldn't make for very convincing disguises. The Micromasters are about the same height in robot mode, but they transform into equally tiny cars, trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes.

Despite this, the Marvel comic featured [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] carrying a human passenger in his vehicle form, as though he were a full-sized car. The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Transformers: Micromasters|Micromasters]]'' suggested that the Micromasters were scaled down to interact more easily with "smaller beings". Whether that meant creatures of human scale or even smaller stature is never clarified, but the Micromasters' passenger compartments are presumably too small to accommodate human passengers.

The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock (Armada)|Sureshock]], and [[High Wire (Armada)|High Wire]], who become small one-man conveyances.) This results from the Mini-Cons scanning normal vehicles and then resizing them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing or that their cockpits are kinda cramped. Though the Recon Team all originate from Gigantion, and seeing how partnered Mini-Cons seem to change size to fit their larger companions, a little size shift to accomodate a passenger doesn't seem too far-fetched compared to other scale issues.

Likewise, the [[Beast Era]] Maximals and Predacons possess roughly human-size bodies; yet when portrayed as vehicles on Cybertron ("[[Dawn of Future's Past]]", the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''), they feature seats and cockpits that, at their size, should be basically useless.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|left|200px|thumb|If you were ever this big in the cartoon, then we might call you a city.]]
[[Image:HeadmastersScale.jpg|right|200px|thumb|See above. Way, way, way above.]]
[[City-bot|A few characters]] have "city" alternate modes. As actual real-life cities can sprawl for many miles, a [[city-bot]] that can notionally house a population of humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, should have a robot-mode that'd make Godzilla look like a gecko. Suffice to say, almost no fiction even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "city-bot". In the American and Japanese cartoons, all four were shown as massive robots capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Even so, it would take something along the lines of the grossly undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) even to begin to represent reasonably the colossal size of a transformed city; so in the context of Transformers, "city" is perhaps better read as "building" or "fortress".

These city-bots often have "small" robots forming vital components. Scorponok has a "human-sized" being forming his head. [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six-Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such.

The Marvel Generation 1 comic sidestepped this issue by depicting Trypticon, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters. However, Metroplex, during his one, brief appearance, was depicted as being immensely larger, crushing Quintesson attack cruisers under foot without batting an eyelid. He was still considerably smaller than a city, however, but this was justified by him merely serving as the 'transformation core' for Autobot City: Earth, not the actual city itself.
{{-}}

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge France into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]
Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout ''Generation 1'' with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.''-style arcologies) sized for 10 m (30') robots, Cybertron would still be less than 150km (100 miles) across. The rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable. (Some people reason that the Transformers' advanced technology, along with their large size and their not needing to breathe, means that buildings actually CAN be that big.)

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation (and really, what possible reason would he have to become ''smaller''?), in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. [[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Either Galvy is humungo, or Lithone is tiiinyyy!!!]]Scenes in the [[The Transformers: The Movie|1986 movie]] in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, impaling [[Brainstorm]] on his fingernail, {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. Not to mention that he's described as a "''ginormous'' weird-lookin' planet," which would lead one to assume that he is ''significantly'' larger than your average-sized weird-lookin' planet. Thank you, [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]]. Thank you so much.

If Cybertron is the size of Earth's moon (and that's generous, we're going to dismiss the assertion that Unicron and Cybertron are Jupiter sized out of hand as silly), and Unicron is about the size of Cybertron, his hands would be about the size of Europe and Galvatron (to the right) would be about the size of Denmark.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada (franchise)|Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing one of them. {{storylink|Sideways (RID)|Sideways}} Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

As a side note, Unicron has been established in some continuities as having already devoured approximately 22.56% of known universes which is truly hilarious if one takes actual planetary/galactic scale into consideration. Assuming that Unicron is ''generously'' close to the size of our moon or the planet Mercury, when compared to other stellar bodies he begins to show up as an all but invisible speck. Imagine him trying to devour a star the size of [http://www.kiroastro.com/writings/perspective Betelgeuse]! Even if we assumed that he is indeed the size of Jupiter as the fiction likes to assert he would not be able to consume anything larger than a planet.

Of course, the fact that Unicron uses the [[Chaos Virus]] to reduce the universes he predates on into a more nommable form once he's done eating all the planets makes this point null.

===Oversized alternate modes===
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I'm tellin' ya, all da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]
Much less common are instances of a Transformer turning into an overscaled real-world object. Most such instances occur in the ''Beast Wars'' era.

Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal (or female) gorilla. However [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a T. Rex. In their interactions with adult [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size, which is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt modes the ''right'' size.

===Artistic license===
====Variation for characterization====
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|left|150px|thumb|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]
Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall {{storylink|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and running up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink|B.O.T. (episode)|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

{{-}}

====Intentionally strange scale====
[[Image:MarvelUS-01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|One side makes you larger, one side makes you small. (Op's been noshing on the first side too much.)]]
Sometimes artists draw a character at a different size [[Authorial intent|intentionally]]. For example, on the cover of the [[The Transformers (issue)|first issue]] of [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|the original ''Transformers'' comics series]], Optimus Prime is extremely huge compared to the highway, bridge, and normal cars. ([[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] is bigger than usual, too.) This is purely for dramatic effect.

Another notable example is the splash screen for the "[http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the TRANSFORMERS]" website, which depicts [[Optimus Primal]] (in his original gorilla body) as the same size as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|G1 Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Optimus Prime]], directly contradicting the size difference seen in "[[Optimal Situation]]" and elsewhere (except for ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'').

Artwork for the [[:Image:VaderVsPrime.jpg|''Star Wars'']] subline features [[:Image:Megatronvsluke.jpg|humans from another galaxy]] standing at the same height as Transformers, although this is simply because most of the figures in [[Attacktix|the tabletop game advertised by this artwork]] are the same size.

[[Image:World of the Transformers ent.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Meet the Supreme class <s>[[Trukk not munky|Munky]]</s> Optimus Primal.]]
{{-}}

===The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. Riiight.]]
The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. The [[Movie (toyline)|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]], such as [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. However, many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Bumblebee]] are ''obviously'' not the same scale. Even more oddly, the vehicle modes of Classic Camaro Bumblebee and Concept Camaro Bumblebee are not the same scale, yet their robot heads are the same size (albeit different sculpts).

[[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]] is another point of topic here. Whilst in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|film]], they worked on keeping his size relative to those of his components, in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|game]] he was far larger.

{{-}}

==Official scale guides ==
[[Image:Tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Official Scale Guides of ''The Transformers'']]
[[Image:Beastwarsscalepreliminary.jpg|right|250px|thumb|''Beast Wars'' Season 1 scale guide]]
Animators and comic book artists received official scale guides showing relative and (in some cases) absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guides ''[[The Ark: A Complete Compendium of Character Designs|The Ark]]'' and ''[[The Ark II — A Compendium of Japanese Character Designs|The Ark II]].'' Though they were sometimes ignored, they still give insight into the official scale of characters in Generation 1. However, even here, there are problems. Devastator in the Season One scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by Season Two he was somewhat less than twice Prime's height.

''Beast Wars'' likewise had an official scale guide, which appeared as a bonus on the DVD set of Season 2. Despite this guide, the series writers have indicated some measure of disregard for relative scale, when it suited the needs of dramatic tension.<ref>[http://builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/m-botcon.html BotCon 98 report - see "ON THE SIZES OF CHARACTERS"]</ref> Thus, Optimal Optimus is ''ungodly'' tall in his first appearance, later reduced to perhaps two times the height of the rest of the cast.

[[Image:ROTF Autobot scale guide 1.jpg|thumb|right|''ROTF'' scale guide]]

''[[Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' had scale guides featured in the ''25 years of Transformers'' feature for the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)/home video|DVD release]] which showed official heights for both the Autobots and the Decepticons. Meaning [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] gains an extra twelve feet when he wears [[Jetfire (ROTF)|a corpse]].

{{-}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]

[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Toys]]
[[Category:Things that don't exist]]

Cityformer

2011-05-17T15:15:03Z

Tyrannolodon:

{{noname|nickname}}

[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Objects in mirror may be smaller than they appear]]
City-bots are Transformers that have alternate modes that are intended to be a city. In actual fictional appearances, however, city-bots [[Scale|very rarely approach actual city size]]. They are typically closer to the size of a large building. Most likely due to the extreme difficulty in getting the 20-30 foot tall average characters to interact realistically with something that's brobably going to be at least a thousand times taller than they are. In the comic, some characters are simply depicted as a bit larger than the average Transformer. The six city-bots are:

*[[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]
*[[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]
*[[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]]
*[[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]
*[[Grand Maximus]]
*[[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]]

==Component Transformers==
City-bots feature smaller Transformers that transform from components of the city-bot itself. Fictional appearances of these Transformers are somewhat rare, when they do appear some have been shown to have individual personalities and others appear to be mindless drones.

{{See|Multi-component Transformer}}

===Metroplex===
*[[Six-Gun]] – Semi-autonomous. Mind linked to Metroplex.<ref name="MP">Metroplex's ''Universe'' profile ([http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Metroplex at TFU.info]).</ref>
*[[Slammer]] – Metroplex controlled drone.<ref name="MP"/>
*[[Scamper]] – Semi-autonomous. Mind linked to Metroplex.<ref name="MP"/>

===Trypticon===
*[[Full-Tilt]] – Battlefield drone. {{storylink|More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye}}
*[[Brunt (G1)|Brunt]] – Battlefield drone. {{storylink|More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye}}
*[[Wipe-Out]] – Apparently fully autonomous. May simply be a Transformer under Trypticon's command. {{storylink|King of the Hill!}}

===Fortress Maximus===
*[[Cog (G1)|Cog]] – Fortress Maximus controlled drone.<ref name="FM">Fortress Maximus's ''Universe'' profile ([http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Fortress_Maximus at TFU.info]) and tech spec profile.</ref><ref>Cog was depicted as fully autonomous in one instance in a possible art error. {{storylink|Ring of Hate!}}</ref>
**Gasket – Drone.<ref name="FM"/> Combines with Grommet to form Cog.
**Grommet – Drone.<ref name="FM"/> Combines with Gasket to form Cog.
*[[Cerebros (G1)|Cerebros]] – [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] unit
*[[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] – Cerebros's Headmaster unit

===Scorponok===
*[[Fasttrack (Scorponok)|Fasttrack]] – Semi-autonomous.<ref>Scorponok's character profile.</ref>
*[[Zarak (Nebulan)|Lord Zarak]] – Headmaster unit

===Grand Maximus===
*[[Cog (Masterforce)|Cog]]
**Onomisu – Combines with Koka to form Cog.
**Koka – Combines with Onomisu to form Cog.
*Grand – [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] unit
*Gran – Grand's Headmaster unit

===Metrotitan===
*[[Metroshot]]
*[[Metrobomb]]
*[[Metrodash]]
*[[Metrotank]]
*The five of them are known as the [[Metrosquad]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:City Transformers| ]]
[[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]
[[Category:Gimmicks]]

Scale

2011-05-17T15:12:11Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Toys out of scale with themselves */

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|300px|thumb|And the truck's how big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, [[Toy|toyline]] or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (There are, of course, a few [[#The rare exceptions|rare exceptions]], detailed below.) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process [[fanon|fanwank]] themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

{{bigquote|Clearly, the pitiful humans at Hasbro are so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of Cybertronian life forms that they can't get the scale right.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|[[Transformers Comic issue 23|Star Scream's #23]]}}

==Scale within toylines==

===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|right|350px|thumb|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]
The early [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[Redeco|redecoed]] toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other (though problems already arise with [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], whose [[alternate mode]]s are based on ''the same car'' yet are not quite the same size), but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys|Volkswagen Beetle]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)/toys|Porsche 935]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] such as [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]] (a hovercraft), who should be many times their actual size.

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]], who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 19.4 m (63.8 feet) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]], despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

Transformers are currently formalised to a variety of [[size class|size classes]], which dictate the approximate cost and dimensions of a figure. Consequently, if the powers that be release toys of two characters in the same line in the same size class, they're going to come out in the same size. Even if one character's a [[Starscream (Movie)|twenty-metre fighter jet]] and the other's a [[Ironhide (Movie)|five-metre pickup truck]]. So don't expect this one to go away any time soon.

===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically [[combiner|designed to interact with each other]] suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]] are wildly out of scale to each other—[[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]]'s [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]] mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr t282 1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Concorde|Concorde jet]]) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

Don't even ask about the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] with their [[Groove (G1)|motorcycle]] and [[Blades (G1)|helicopter]] limbs...

===Same alternate mode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) [[alternate mode]]s, but whose toys are different sizes. For example, [[Air Raid (G1)#Toys|the original Air Raid]] transforms into an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-15 Eagle|F-15 Eagle]], but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)/toys|the original Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Lamborghini Countach|Lamborghini Countach]] [[Breakdown (G1)#Toys|Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker (G1)#Toys|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)#Toys|Sideswipe]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other "[[Scramble City]]" combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Multiple scales of same character===
[[Image:Animated-toy MultipleSizeOptimusPrimes.jpg|right|270px|thumb|Oh great. And I thought ''Bulkhead'' was confused...]]

Starting with ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'', many franchises have released multiple versions of the same character in different [[size class]]es, most often the leader characters. Originally, the intent was apparently to make the popular [[Optimus (disambiguation)|Optimus]] and [[Megatron (disambiguation)|Megatron]] characters available at lower price points than just the large and expensive "Leader" class, so that children with less money would not miss out, and perhaps persuading [[completist]]-minded [[User:ItsWalky|collectors]] to buy multiple versions of one character.

While this introduces a nice range of options for the discerning collector, it can also lead to some problems. ''Beast Machines'', for example, featured three different [[Cheetor (BW)/toys|Cheetor toys]]. The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMSupreme|Supreme size toy]] was so large it could not interact with most of the other toys from the line (based on [[Beast Machines (cartoon)|the cartoon]], he's maaaaybe in scale with [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|Nightscream]] and [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], the later of whom wasn't released until three years later). The [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#BMNSC|Deluxe Cheetor]], on the other hand, was too ''small'' to match scales with most of the other toys (again, using the cartoon as a yardstick). Anyone looking ''within'' the toyline for notions of a "correct" scale between the characters would be stymied by the multiple size classes and the lack of real-world scale references.

Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spy Changer]] incarnations of various ''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Movie (franchise)|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously.)

Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)#Supreme|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Image:G1 Broadside toy.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Kill me. Just... kill me now.]]

[[Triple Changer]]s create a whole new set of problems. The original [[Astrotrain (G1)#Toys|Astrotrain]] transforms from a 21-meter (70-foot) locomotive to a 56-meter (184-foot) [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Space Shuttle Orbiter|Space Shuttle]]. [[Octane#Toys|Octane]]'s original body transforms from a 20-meter (60-foot) tanker truck into a 65-meter (200-foot) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth fighter jet of indeterminate model (let's pretend for the sake of argument that he's supposed to be an [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#F-14 Tomcat|F-14]] and say he's 18 meters (61 feet) long) with a mass of 33 tonnes into an entire ''aircraft carrier'', approximately 333 meters (1,092 feet) long with a mass of 100,000 tonnes assuming it's a Nimitz class, that's a size increase of over 15 times, and three thousand fold increase in mass.

The newer versions of Astrotrain and Octane (aka "Tankor"), while changing the specifics of their alternate modes, really don't improve on the general size disparity all that much.

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime]] has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[Show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)/toys|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)#Toys|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)#Toys|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be real-world [[human]]-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster (G1)#Toys|Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1)/toys#MasterpieceMegs|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Masterpiece Optimus Prime]]. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's unmistakably much larger than the real thing. (Not that this has stopped him being widely banned as a "realistic firearm replica"....)

===Fanciful altmodes===
Characters with alternate modes that are not meant to be replicas of real-world things (or at least, close enough to while being legally-distinct from said things) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertronian vehicles whose size we don't really know... or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all. The scale of characters such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|original Dinobots]], [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys|Hot Rod]] or [[Overhaul (Cybertron)#Voyager|Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters within the fiction, although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard (see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for [[human]]-sized passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome (G1)#Toys|Chromedome]] with [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)#Toys|Lightspeed]] suggests the scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the [[city-bot]] and planetbot toys (such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)#Toys|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron/toys|Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge [[Hasbro]] not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===Action Masters===
[[Image:Neutro-fusiontank.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Imagine [[:Image:ActionMaster Devastor.gif|Devastator]] in the passenger seat.]]

The [[:Category:Action Master vehicles|Action Master vehicles]] were designed to take advantage of the fact that the [[Action Master]] figures were all the same size. They can each pilot each other's vehicles or ride as a passenger. With the vehicles as a frame of reference, it seems we should take it as fact that all of the Action Masters are literally the same size, even characters such as Bumblebee and Devastator. Did Devastator shrink?

{{--}}

===The rare exceptions===
There have been precious few exceptions to all of this scale weirdness in the toys. However, the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus in perfect scale with each other, was the first to buck the trend. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] (Space Shuttle) toy in scale with the ''Alternator''s toys would be 1.6 meters (5.1 feet) long, while a [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (aircraft carrier) toy at that scale would be over 12 meters (40 feet)! Hasbro actually displayed [[Prototype|mock-ups]] for an unproduced line of "military" Transformers in scale with ''Alternators'' during the [[BotCon 2007]] Hasbro Tour; two of them recycled parts of ''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' [[Unicron/toys#Armada|Unicron]], and were thus [[Size class|Supreme-sized]], which made said potential toyline not particularly commercially viable for Hasbro.

The direct —and indirect— successors to ''Alternators'' would also maintain a mostly consistent internal scale. ''[[Alternators#Binaltech Asterisk|Binaltech Asterisk]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'' would make use of the same molds, only with added [[human]] female driver figures... which were woefully small compared to the cars they came with. This would repeat itself with the "[[Human Alliance]]" toys for ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''; the cars/robots are all roughly the right size compared to each other ([[Skids (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)#Human Alliance|Mudflap]] are even smaller, squatter toys and come with sub-[[size class|Basic]]-sized [[Arcee (Movie)#Human Alliance|motorcycle]] and [[Chromia (ROTF)#HumanAlliance|robots]] to make up for it), but their human drivers are all too small. (Amusingly, [[Frenzy (Movie)#Human Alliance|Frenzy]] seems to be about right.)

''[[Alternity (franchise)|Alternity]]'' would follow in ''Alternators''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s footsteps with a series of smaller 1:32-scale licensed cars... as well as stuffing [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Alternity|characters who traditionally don't have automobile alternate modes]] into modern-day civilian vehicles. That these toys represent hyper-evolved beings most of the time make it all the more head-scratch-inducing.

== Scale within fictions ==
Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. Some can be attributed to [[animation error]]s, such as layering problems,[[:Image:Tinybluestreak.jpg|1]][[:Image:Huge Ironhide and Small Ratchet.jpg|2]][[:Image:CarnageMiniBlaster.jpg|3]] but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Fictional scale vs. toy scale===
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Powerglide Astoria Marygoaround.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Actually, disturbing ''fiction'' is probably more of a concern than scale issues.]]

The original ''Transformers'' fictions often depict characters to the same relative scale as the toys, which duplicates the intra-toyline problems described above. The cartoon, for example, shows [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] as about the same height, [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s and Autobot cars as slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] as smaller yet. This scale was carried over to their vehicle forms, resulting in differently-sized cars that, based on real world measurements, should be virtually the same size.

For another example, the [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]] comics portrayed the [[Pretender]]s as literal interpretations of their toys: 60-foot humans with full-scale Transformers inside. The "disguise" aspect of this was later explained by having [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]] and [[Cloudburst]] encounter [[Femax|giant, transformer-sized humanoids on an alien planet]] which made them appear to be of a "normal" scale.

[[Image:Omegasupreme astrotrain.jpg|right|200px|thumb|I know he's meant to be big, but holy ''crap'', dude!]]

Transformers fiction commonly shrinks or inflates characters, relative to their toy sizes. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most Minibots, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the [[Galvatron (G1)/toys|toy Galvatron]] is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realize that a [[redeco]] of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The cast of ''[[Beast Wars (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron#Toys|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a Tyrannosaurus rex but is shown in The Agenda Part 3, as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.
[[Image:Agenda3 MegatronOptimusPrime.jpg|right|250px|thumb|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (BW)#Beast Machines|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal/toys#Robots in Disguise|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink|Prime Spark}})
{{-}}

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|200px|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]
In the otherwise fairly toy-scale-savvy [[Unicron Trilogy]], [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. Within the animation, this causes problems with their [[Mini-Con]] partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when shown directly interacting with their larger partners, are scaled up right along with their partner... resulting in some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

The Japanese ''[[Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]'' release of [[Metroplex (Cybertron)#Toys|Metroplex]], dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends Class|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/toys#MegaloConvoy|Optimus Prime toy]] to indicate the "correct" scale.

The ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]'' franchise has its share of scale problems when comparing its toyline to the cartoon (not helped by multiple releases of some characters in different sizes—see above), with several characters seeming roughly one [[size class]] too small, such as the [[Dinobot (Animated)|Dinobots]] being a mix of one Voyager size and two Deluxes, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)#Toys|Sentinel Prime]] looking rather diminutive as a Deluxe, and, most egregiously, [[Lugnut (Animated)#Toys|Lugnut]] as a ''very'' squat Voyager who's shorter than even some Deluxes. (As with [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Toys|Voyager-class Bulkhead]], more of his mass went into his width, plus his weapon takes away some from his robot mode.) Conversely, the traditionally stunted [[Bumblebee (Animated)#Toys|Bumblebee]] is marginally too tall and bulky to be in correct scale to his otherwise fairly accurate core teammates, assuming one includes [[Optimus Prime (Animated)#Voyager|Voyager Optimus]] and [[Bulkhead (Animated)#Leader|Leader Bulkhead]] in their lineup. In fact, ''Animated'' is one of those toylines where you're not quite sure who you're supposed to base correct scale on.

===Inconsistent portrayal===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|left|175px|thumb|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll...]]
[[Image:Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg|right|200px|thumb|...too late.]]
Even if a size was decided on, it often didn't remain consistent. The height of the cartoon's [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], just to name one, frequently varied between episodes.

The [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] and [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] vary in height relative to [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. A panel in the "[[Time Wars (issue)|Time Wars]]" shows [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his original appearance, {{storylink|Command Performances!}} shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average Transformer. [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] suffered a similar problem, shrinking in size even though he was explicitly rebuilt to be twice as tall as the average Transformer.

Scale can even be inconsistent within the same story thanks to changing artists: In the Marvel UK story "[[Ladies' Night]]", a ginormous [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] picks up a tiiiiny military Jeep with one hand, implying that he grew to humongous proportions when he transformed (as his alternate mode is ''also'' depicted as a Jeep in fiction), but in the second part of the story, Swindle is hit by a burning Jeep (possibly even the same one) that is now in scale with his robot mode. {{storylink|Ladies' Night}} It can even happen within the same issue without an artist change: In [[IDW Publishing|IDW's]] ''[[Spotlight: Soundwave]]'', there's a scene where a [[Hiro|human]] picks up [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] in his tape deck mode, which is smaller than a thick comic book slipcase in his hands. A few pages later, [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] picks up Soundwave out of the human's hands, being barely able to hold the tape deck in his mouth, making Laserbeak about the size of a large dog (not counting the wings). Yet when [[Skywatch]] discovers Laserbeak at the end of the story, his ''head'' alone is suddenly the size of an adult human. {{storylink|Spotlight: Soundwave}}

[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
Between the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink|Master Blaster|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

===Explicit size changes===
{{main|size changing}}

Numerous characters are explicitly shown to shrink or expand at various times.

====Human-scaled alternate modes====
[[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] becomes a human-scale radio; [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] shrinks into a handgun scaled for either Transformer or human hands, depending on the situation. The cartoons and comics typically show this without explanation, leaving the audience to attribute it to advanced alien technology.

====Pretenders====
Some versions of the [[Pretender]]s are shown to explicitly shrink when hiding in their human-sized outer shells. In the U.S. toy commercials, [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], and [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in [[Powermaster]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]'s hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized. ''[[Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.

===Implicit size changes===
Characters often change size in a less explicit fashion when transforming. These changes in scale are usually attributed to size-changing by that portion of the fan base who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the artists hoped the audience wouldn't notice. It can also be supposed that they are hiding their mass somewhere (car style Transformers storing mass in their passenger compartments when in humanoid form, [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] folding his wings flat, the buildings in a city-bot collapsing to eliminate the spaces normally occupied by humans, boat-bots filling up or getting rid of the vast empty areas used to provide buoyancy) or puffing up with empty space, but at a certain point, things just get silly. Some Transformers are smaller than solid blocks of the mass contained in their alt modes: [[Unicron]] would have to be about as thick as the [[Earth]]'s crust while in planetary form, and [[Optimus Prime (disambiguation)|Optimus Prime]] would probably be blown away by a stiff breeze in his larger incarnations.

====Transport characters====
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|thumb|right|180px|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Ironhide carried into Ratchet.jpg|thumb|right|180px|...And not to [[Ironhide (G1)|mention]] [[Ratchet (G1)|this]].]]

In the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original cartoon]], Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers, such as [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]], [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], and [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]], will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. For example, Cosmos is ''much'' shorter than [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] in robot form; yet Blaster easily fits within his spacecraft mode. Likewise, a whole squad of Decepticons can fit into Astrotrain's shuttle mode easily (including the combined-form [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]!), yet he's an ordinary-sized trooper in his robot form.

Sometimes the cartoon would show ordinarily-scaled characters such as [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]] or [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] carrying another Transformer in their cockpit, implying either a tiny passenger or a huge vehicle. Even [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], who is supposed to be huge, would have to have a greatly expanded scale for his rocket ship component to accommodate passengers as shown on the cartoon.

The Marvel comics commonly sidestepped this issue by not using Transformers as transport characters, or else requiring the passengers to transform into their explicitly smaller forms to be carried. Yet they were not immune to this problem. In one story, the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now much smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored. {{storylink|Guess Who the Mecannibals Are Having for Dinner?}}

[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' series of [[bio]] comics tried to explain this for characters such as Astrotrain and [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] by saying they're able to expand themselves to increase cargo space in vehicle mode, though their armor becomes thinner as it is spread out more. Conversely, the series notes, in robot mode, all that armor and structure being compressed into a smaller form makes that mode stronger and more durable for combat.

This concept is lampshaded in the credits of [[Transformers:_War_for_Cybertron|WFC]], where [[Bumblebee_(Prime)|Bumblebee]] pulls up, and the entire Autobot cast of the game step out of his passenger door, clown car style.

====Combiner characters====
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]
[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

Sometimes, they are even out of scale in their own team; [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]]'s torso is an [[Onslaught (G1)|anti-aircraft truck]], while one of his limbs is a [[Blast Off (G1)|Space Shuttle]] and another is a [[Swindle (G1)|two-person offroad vehicle]]. For this to work, either Blast Off has to shrink, or Swindle needs to grow.

====Scale problems and size-changing====
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

===Undersized alternate modes===
Many Transformers are portrayed in fiction as having alternate modes that are smaller than the real-life objects they are imitating. Sometimes this is deliberate, allowing them to match their toy scale and/or be of a similar size to other characters; in other cases, it is essentially an artistic error.

Toys at the lowest price points usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name. [[Mini Vehicle]]s [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]], [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]], and [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] are usually depicted as smaller than other Transformers in fiction, even though their alternate modes should have them towering over other characters. This often results in minuscule vehicle forms; Seaspray is a tiny hovercraft, despite being covered with doors and windows. (Conversely, if a new toy based on such a [[character]] is designed to be more in scale with other toys, such as [[Universe (2008 toyline)|2008 ''Universe'']] Ultra Class Powerglide or [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|2010 ''Transformers'']] Voyager Class [[Sea Spray]], some [[fandom|fans]] complain ''because they expect those new toys to reflect the original toys' sizes'' and, by extension, the [[show-accuracy|depiction in fiction]].)

[[Image:Hotrodpatrolcommercial.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Do you have change for four hot rods?]]
The [[Micromaster]]s are explicitly downsized Transformers, roughly the size of a human in the comics, meaning that they ''should'' have explicitly tiny vehicle modes... which wouldn't make for very convincing disguises. The Micromasters are about the same height in robot mode, but they transform into equally tiny cars, trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes.

Despite this, the Marvel comic featured [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] carrying a human passenger in his vehicle form, as though he were a full-sized car. The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Transformers: Micromasters|Micromasters]]'' suggested that the Micromasters were scaled down to interact more easily with "smaller beings". Whether that meant creatures of human scale or even smaller stature is never clarified, but the Micromasters' passenger compartments are presumably too small to accommodate human passengers.

The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock (Armada)|Sureshock]], and [[High Wire (Armada)|High Wire]], who become small one-man conveyances.) This results from the Mini-Cons scanning normal vehicles and then resizing them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing or that their cockpits are kinda cramped. Though the Recon Team all originate from Gigantion, and seeing how partnered Mini-Cons seem to change size to fit their larger companions, a little size shift to accomodate a passenger doesn't seem too far-fetched compared to other scale issues.

Likewise, the [[Beast Era]] Maximals and Predacons possess roughly human-size bodies; yet when portrayed as vehicles on Cybertron ("[[Dawn of Future's Past]]", the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''), they feature seats and cockpits that, at their size, should be basically useless.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|left|200px|thumb|If you were ever this big in the cartoon, then we might call you a city.]]
[[Image:HeadmastersScale.jpg|right|200px|thumb|See above. Way, way, way above.]]
[[City-bot|A few characters]] have "city" alternate modes. As actual real-life cities can sprawl for many miles, a [[city-bot]] that can notionally house a population of humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, should have a robot-mode that'd make Godzilla look like a gecko. Suffice to say, almost no fiction even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "city-bot". In the American and Japanese cartoons, all four were shown as massive robots capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Even so, it would take something along the lines of the grossly undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) even to begin to represent reasonably the colossal size of a transformed city; so in the context of Transformers, "city" is perhaps better read as "building" or "fortress".

These city-bots often have "small" robots forming vital components. Scorponok has a "human-sized" being forming his head. [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six-Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such.

The Marvel Generation 1 comic sidestepped this issue by depicting Trypticon, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters. However, Metroplex, during his one, brief appearance, was depicted as being immensely larger, crushing Quintesson attack cruisers under foot without batting an eyelid. He was still considerably smaller than a city, however, but this was justified by him merely serving as the 'transformation core' for Autobot City: Earth, not the actual city itself.
{{-}}

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge France into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]
Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout ''Generation 1'' with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.''-style arcologies) sized for 10 m (30') robots, Cybertron would still be less than 150km (100 miles) across. The rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable. (Some people reason that the Transformers' advanced technology, along with their large size and their not needing to breathe, means that buildings actually CAN be that big.)

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation (and really, what possible reason would he have to become ''smaller''?), in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. [[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Either Galvy is humungo, or Lithone is tiiinyyy!!!]]Scenes in the [[The Transformers: The Movie|1986 movie]] in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, impaling [[Brainstorm]] on his fingernail, {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. Not to mention that he's described as a "''ginormous'' weird-lookin' planet," which would lead one to assume that he is ''significantly'' larger than your average-sized weird-lookin' planet. Thank you, [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]]. Thank you so much.

If Cybertron is the size of Earth's moon (and that's generous), and Unicron is about the size of Cybertron, his hands would be about the size of Europe and Galvatron (to the right) would be about the size of Denmark.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada (franchise)|Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing one of them. {{storylink|Sideways (RID)|Sideways}} Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

As a side note, Unicron has been established in some continuities as having already devoured approximately 22.56% of known universes which is truly hilarious if one takes actual planetary/galactic scale into consideration. Assuming that Unicron is ''generously'' close to the size of our moon or the planet Mercury, when compared to other stellar bodies he begins to show up as an all but invisible speck. Imagine him trying to devour a star the size of [http://www.kiroastro.com/writings/perspective Betelgeuse]!

===Oversized alternate modes===
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I'm tellin' ya, all da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]
Much less common are instances of a Transformer turning into an overscaled real-world object. Most such instances occur in the ''Beast Wars'' era.

Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal (or female) gorilla. However [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a T. Rex. In their interactions with adult [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size, which is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt modes the ''right'' size.

===Artistic license===
====Variation for characterization====
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|left|150px|thumb|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]
Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall {{storylink|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and running up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink|B.O.T. (episode)|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

{{-}}

====Intentionally strange scale====
[[Image:MarvelUS-01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|One side makes you larger, one side makes you small. (Op's been noshing on the first side too much.)]]
Sometimes artists draw a character at a different size [[Authorial intent|intentionally]]. For example, on the cover of the [[The Transformers (issue)|first issue]] of [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|the original ''Transformers'' comics series]], Optimus Prime is extremely huge compared to the highway, bridge, and normal cars. ([[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] is bigger than usual, too.) This is purely for dramatic effect.

Another notable example is the splash screen for the "[http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the TRANSFORMERS]" website, which depicts [[Optimus Primal]] (in his original gorilla body) as the same size as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|G1 Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Optimus Prime]], directly contradicting the size difference seen in "[[Optimal Situation]]" and elsewhere (except for ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'').

Artwork for the [[:Image:VaderVsPrime.jpg|''Star Wars'']] subline features [[:Image:Megatronvsluke.jpg|humans from another galaxy]] standing at the same height as Transformers, although this is simply because most of the figures in [[Attacktix|the tabletop game advertised by this artwork]] are the same size.

[[Image:World of the Transformers ent.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Meet the Supreme class <s>[[Trukk not munky|Munky]]</s> Optimus Primal.]]
{{-}}

===The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. Riiight.]]
The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. The [[Movie (toyline)|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]], such as [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. However, many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Bumblebee]] are ''obviously'' not the same scale. Even more oddly, the vehicle modes of Classic Camaro Bumblebee and Concept Camaro Bumblebee are not the same scale, yet their robot heads are the same size (albeit different sculpts).

[[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]] is another point of topic here. Whilst in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|film]], they worked on keeping his size relative to those of his components, in the [[Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|game]] he was far larger.

{{-}}

==Official scale guides ==
[[Image:Tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Official Scale Guides of ''The Transformers'']]
[[Image:Beastwarsscalepreliminary.jpg|right|250px|thumb|''Beast Wars'' Season 1 scale guide]]
Animators and comic book artists received official scale guides showing relative and (in some cases) absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guides ''[[The Ark: A Complete Compendium of Character Designs|The Ark]]'' and ''[[The Ark II — A Compendium of Japanese Character Designs|The Ark II]].'' Though they were sometimes ignored, they still give insight into the official scale of characters in Generation 1. However, even here, there are problems. Devastator in the Season One scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by Season Two he was somewhat less than twice Prime's height.

''Beast Wars'' likewise had an official scale guide, which appeared as a bonus on the DVD set of Season 2. Despite this guide, the series writers have indicated some measure of disregard for relative scale, when it suited the needs of dramatic tension.<ref>[http://builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/m-botcon.html BotCon 98 report - see "ON THE SIZES OF CHARACTERS"]</ref> Thus, Optimal Optimus is ''ungodly'' tall in his first appearance, later reduced to perhaps two times the height of the rest of the cast.

[[Image:ROTF Autobot scale guide 1.jpg|thumb|right|''ROTF'' scale guide]]

''[[Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' had scale guides featured in the ''25 years of Transformers'' feature for the [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)/home video|DVD release]] which showed official heights for both the Autobots and the Decepticons. Meaning [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] gains an extra twelve feet when he wears [[Jetfire (ROTF)|a corpse]].

{{-}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]

[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Toys]]
[[Category:Things that don't exist]]

Godzilla

2011-05-17T15:04:17Z

Tyrannolodon:

[[Image:Nicholas.jpg|thumb|150px|With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound...]]

'''Godzilla''' (ゴジラ ''Gojira'') is a mysterious creature similar to [[King Kong]]. Apparently, it is big, green, and snorts atomic fire...whatever that is...

==Fiction==
===Marvel Generation 1 comics===
Super-spy agency [[S.H.I.E.L.D.]] had encountered Godzilla before. Alerted to trouble in [[Oregon]] by [[Dum Dum]], [[S.H.I.E.L.D.]] employee [[Nicholas]] threatened to quit if it was "that big green, fire-snortin' lizard" again. {{storylink|Prisoner of War!}}

====Earthforce====
[[Image:Irwin spoon godzilla inside story.jpg|thumb|175px|right|Thus died the dream.]]
{{Earthforcefiction}}

When [[Superion (G1)|Superion]] was running amok in upper [[New York (state)|New York State]] under the influence of one of [[Bombshell (G1)|Bombshell]]'s [[cerebro-shell]]s, reporter [[Irwin Spoon (G1)|Irwin Spoon]] compared him to Godzilla when the Autobots he encountered told him the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] [[combiner]] was actually one of the "good guys".

[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] had absolutely no idea what Irwin was referring to. {{storylink|Inside Story!}}

===IDW ''Dark of the Moon'' comics===
While guarding [[Fearswoop (ROTF)|Fearswoop]], [[Jolt (ROTF)|Jolt]] read a ''Godzilla'' comic book. {{storylink|Rising Storm issue 3|Rising Storm #3}}

==Notes==
*Godzilla had his own Marvel Comics series in which he was hunted down by Dum Dum.
*Given Spoon's statements about movies, it might be the case that, in-universe, the Japanese made a movie about Godzilla's real-life monster rampages—after all the [[Marvel]] [[Marvel Comics continuity|continuity]] contains both [[Neo-Knight|superheroes]] and [[Robot-Master (comic)|superhero comics]]—but drawing firm relationships between the Marvelverse, the main US continuity and the Earthforce continuity is problematic at best. [[Earth-120185]], anyone?
* ''Super-God Masterforce'' head writer [[Masumi Kaneda]] has stated that [[Ginrai|God Ginrai]] (ゴッドジンライ) was named so that omitting every other Japanese syllable yields the word Gojira (ゴジラ), the original Japanese name for Godzilla.
* There is another Japanese monster movie, ''[[Hojoni]]'', as shown in "[[Kremzeek!]]"

==External links==
*[http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/godzilla.htm Marvel's Godzilla at the Marvel Appendix]
*[[wikia:c:Godzilla|Godzilla Wiki]]
*[[Wikipedia:Godzilla|Godzilla information at Wikipedia]]

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Comic-only characters]]
[[Category:Earth culture]]
[[Category:External properties]]
[[Category:Films]]
[[Category:Generation 1 characters]]
[[Category:Japanese-original characters]]
[[Category:Monsters]]

World War II

2011-05-16T18:22:03Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Notes */

'''The Second World War''', also '''World War II''' or '''World War 2''', was a gigantic military conflict on 20th Century [[Earth]]. The [[Wikipedia:Axis powers|Axis]], the belligerent faction in the war, included the [[Japan|Empire of Japan]] and [[Cobra]]. It probably followed some sort of [[Wikipedia:World War I|initial world war]], but we don't know for sure.

In order to win the war, both the [[United States of America]] and the Axis worked on creating "[[Sgt. Savage|super]]-[[Captain America|soldiers]]": men enhanced by scientific treatments to the peak of human ability.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1===
====Generation 1 cartoon====

Various battles were fought against Japan in the Pacific. One such battle was at [[Guadalcanal]] in [[1943]], where [[United States military|US forces]] battled the Japanese. The debris would still be there in [[1985]]. {{storylink|Starscream's Brigade}}

In [[2006]], [[Jessica Morgan]] believed that if the [[Hate Plague]] were to get out in the open, it would make World War II look a schoolyard brawl. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1}}

====Transformers/G.I. Joe====

The [[Fera Islands]] based [[Cobra]], in this reality having Decepticon assistance, conquered much of [[Europe]] between [[1938]] and [[1939]]. This brought the United States into the war. {{storylink|Transformers/G.I. Joe}}

====Binaltech====

The sinister [[Concurrence]] included WW2 veteran [[General Blitz|Garrison Kreiger]], who had worked as a double-agent for the Axis power, the I.R.O.N. Army.

===Generation 2===
====Marvel Comics====

When Bludgeon constructed a group of new Decepticons, he based [[Ransack (G2)|Ransack]] on the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F4U_Corsair F4U Corsair], a WW2-era [[United States Navy]] plane.

===Robots in Disguise===

During the Second World War, Japan was heavily bombed. Old bombs that never went off can still be found and may detonate, especially if you're [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]]. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus (episode)|Ultra Magnus}}

===Live-action film series===
====Titan Magazines====

Japan had bombed the American base Pearl Harbour [sic], and apparently their aircraft were so dangerous that [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Cybertronian spacecraft]] were assumed to be Japanese. Due to the conflict, American merchant ships went around armed to the teeth. During the war and for some months afterwards, the United States used Grumman Avenger bombers, which were capable of seriously whalloping alien warcraft. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.15|Making Waves}}

==Notes==
* ''[[Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II]]'' uses a lot of concepts and terms from World War II for its history of [[Great War (Animated)|the Great War]], particularly the Pacific Theatre (though the Decepticon's strategic bombing campaign is more akin to the European theatre, though Japan did indeed receive a strategic bombing campaign in the last months of the war that very quickly reduced most of it's cities to rubble). In addition, the [[Quintesson]]s are mentioned as possessing a "Co-Prosperity Sphere", the same term Japan used for its conquered territories.

[[Category: Wars]]

Russia

2011-05-16T18:19:20Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Generation 1 cartoon */

'''Russia''' is a nation-state. It is the largest nation-state on [[Earth]], stretching from [[Europe]] across [[Asia]].

It used to be part of the [[Soviet Union]], and the most dominant of its fifteen republics, but the band broke up in the early 1990s...we think.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
[[Image:Europa 2000.jpg|thumb|This is absolutely how Europe works.]]
====Generation 1 cartoon====

Russia shares borders with [[France]], [[Ciech]], [[Rumania]], and possibly [[Hungary]] (it's hard to tell). Germany must have shrank off-screen, damned Napoleon wannabes...{{storylink|Trans-Europe Express}}

===IDW comics continuity===

{{stub}}
{{storylink|Escalation issue 5}}

When multiple Transformer factions were gathered on Asian soil, Russia tried to destroy them with a nuclear strike.{{storylink|International Incident Part 4: "All My Sins Remembered"|International Incident Part 4}}

===Live action film series===
====Transformers (2007)====

Russia was one the nations that the [[Pentagon]] believed could be responsible for hacking the US security network. During the resulting military escalations, Russian naval groups began to close in on US naval operations in the Yellow Sea. Once [[Tom Banachek]] informed the Pentagon about the alien nature of the threat, US forces were pulled back. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)}}

====Titan Magazines====
Russia was a [[NEST]] member, with a base in the Arkhangelskaya Oblast. [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] established a Decepticon command hub in the same oblast, and a battle erupted there between Autobot/NEST and Decepticon forces. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.20|Divided Loyalties}}

{{notetitantlg}}
The Decepticon invasion caused Russia to buddy up with NATO and advocate nuclear strikes on Decepticon-held America. It didn't work out well... {{storylink|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 2|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 2}}

{{stub}}

==Notes==
*Originally in ''[[Escalation (IDW)|Escalation]]'', the series identified the Soviet Union as the state that [[Brasnya]] was attempting to break away from. This was changed in [[Escalation issue 5|#5]] from the Soviet Union to Russia.
*In the ''[[Cybertron (cartoon)|Cybertron]]'' episode, "[[Hidden]]", two Air Force jets are very similar in model to [[Thundercracker (Armada)|Thundercracker]], but in a basic gray color scheme. However, the model of fighter jet is of Russian make, while the pilots are American.

==External links==
*[[Wikipedia:Russia|Russia]] on Wikipedia

[[Category:European countries]]
[[Category:Generation 1 locations]]
[[Category:Movie locations]]

Russia

2011-05-16T18:18:53Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Generation 1 cartoon */

'''Russia''' is a nation-state. It is the largest nation-state on [[Earth]], stretching from [[Europe]] across [[Asia]].

It used to be part of the [[Soviet Union]], and the most dominant of its fifteen republics, but the band broke up in the early 1990s...we think.

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
[[Image:Europa 2000.jpg|thumb|This is absolutely how Europe works.]]
====Generation 1 cartoon====

Russia shares borders with [[France]], [[Ciech]], [[Rumania]], and possibly [[Hungary]] (it's hard to tell). Germany must have vanished off-screen, damned Napoleon wannabes...{{storylink|Trans-Europe Express}}

===IDW comics continuity===

{{stub}}
{{storylink|Escalation issue 5}}

When multiple Transformer factions were gathered on Asian soil, Russia tried to destroy them with a nuclear strike.{{storylink|International Incident Part 4: "All My Sins Remembered"|International Incident Part 4}}

===Live action film series===
====Transformers (2007)====

Russia was one the nations that the [[Pentagon]] believed could be responsible for hacking the US security network. During the resulting military escalations, Russian naval groups began to close in on US naval operations in the Yellow Sea. Once [[Tom Banachek]] informed the Pentagon about the alien nature of the threat, US forces were pulled back. {{storylink|Transformers (2007)}}

====Titan Magazines====
Russia was a [[NEST]] member, with a base in the Arkhangelskaya Oblast. [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] established a Decepticon command hub in the same oblast, and a battle erupted there between Autobot/NEST and Decepticon forces. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.20|Divided Loyalties}}

{{notetitantlg}}
The Decepticon invasion caused Russia to buddy up with NATO and advocate nuclear strikes on Decepticon-held America. It didn't work out well... {{storylink|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 2|Twilight's Last Gleaming, Part: 2}}

{{stub}}

==Notes==
*Originally in ''[[Escalation (IDW)|Escalation]]'', the series identified the Soviet Union as the state that [[Brasnya]] was attempting to break away from. This was changed in [[Escalation issue 5|#5]] from the Soviet Union to Russia.
*In the ''[[Cybertron (cartoon)|Cybertron]]'' episode, "[[Hidden]]", two Air Force jets are very similar in model to [[Thundercracker (Armada)|Thundercracker]], but in a basic gray color scheme. However, the model of fighter jet is of Russian make, while the pilots are American.

==External links==
*[[Wikipedia:Russia|Russia]] on Wikipedia

[[Category:European countries]]
[[Category:Generation 1 locations]]
[[Category:Movie locations]]

Soviet Union

2011-05-16T18:15:58Z

Tyrannolodon: /* Notes */

{{picsneeded}}

:''In Soviet Union, continuity notes you.''

The '''Soviet Union''' is a nation-state on the planet [[Earth]]. It is considered to be one of the world's two "superpowers", along with its rival, the [[United States of America]]. Its capital city is [[Moscow]], home of the Kremlin.

:''See also: [[Russia]]''

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
The Soviet Union joined with all the other governments of Earth in agreeing to provide the [[Autobot|Autobots]] the energy needed to return to their [[Cybertron (planet)|home planet]] and restore it. This, however, did not come to pass, for reasons unknown. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 3}}

When an [[Daina|experimental Soviet jet]] was captured by the world's greatest trophy hunter, [[Lord Chumley]], blame was erroneously placed on the United States. This brought tensions between the two countries to their highest level since the [[Wikipedia:Cuban Missile Crisis|Cuban Missile Crisis]]. Later, the truth was exposed by the Autobots, the jet returned, and Chumley handed over to the Soviets. {{storylink|Prime Target (episode)|Prime Target}}

In [[2006]], during a diplomatic event in which the Autobots were guests, the [[Decepticon]] [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]] tried to steal the Kremlin, one of many famous structures from around the world he was collecting and bringing to [[Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya|Carbombya]], as part of a scheme orchestrated by [[Octane]]. [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] arrived in time to thwart the attempt, but wound up caught seemingly red-handed, holding the building and appearing to be the thief himself. This led to Soviet government authorizing the expulsion of all Autobots from Soviet territory. The truth was later exposed, and the Autobots were welcomed back into the Soviet Union with open arms. {{storylink|Thief in the Night}}

===Japanese Generation 1 continuity===
====''The Headmasters'' cartoon====
[[Sixshot]] threatened the Soviet Union and other countries for their energy. {{storylink|Terror! The Six Shadows}}

====''Super-God Masterforce'' comic====
The Soviet Union was attacked along with other countries by [[Overlord (Masterforce)|Overlord]] with his [[A.O. Laser]] cannon from the top of [[Qomolangma]]. Thinking the world would be under Decepticons' control, [[Wilder]] suggested taking the land of the Soviet Union as the yard. {{storylink|Decepticons' Great Counterattack!}}

===IDW Generation 1 comics===
An ongoing separatist movement in the Soviet state of [[Brasnya]] was being manipulated by the Decepticons for their own ends, by means of artificial human "[[Facsimile construct|facsimiles]]". {{storylink|Escalation issue 3|Escalation #3}}

{{stub}}

===Transformers (2007)===
The USSR was aware of [[Sector Seven]] and the [[Megatron (Movie)|alien machine]] in their possession: when the entity was transported from [[Sector Seven High Arctic Base]] to [[Hoover Dam]] via Canada in the late 1960s, KGB special forces launched a raid to capture it. They were routed. {{storylink|Ghosts of Yesterday}}

===Shattered Glass===
In the 1980s, there was a Third World War that presumably involved the Soviet Union. In [[2009]], it still remains in existence and is an international rival to the despotic [[United States of America]]. {{storylink|Eye in the Sky}}

==Notes==
* In the real world, the [[Wikipedia:Soviet Union|Soviet Union]] collapsed in [[1991]], breaking up into [[Wikipedia:Commonwealth of Independent States|its constituent republics]]. This event was foreseeable to economists when the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[The Transformers (cartoon)|animated series]] was being produced in the mid-1980s, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatPoliticsMessUp but not to cartoon writers]. Thus the third season of the cartoon, set in the then-future year of 2006, depicted the Soviet Union as still extant.
* The final issues of ''[[Escalation (IDW)|Escalation]]'' started referring to Russia instead of the Soviet Union. As to why a comic written in 2006 previously called it the Soviet Union and why it was changed...um...well, we'll get back to you. Of course, ''many'' people do make the mistake of making Russia and the Soviet Union interchangeable terms in real life so this isn't totally without precedent.

==External links==
*[[Wikipedia:Soviet Union|Soviet Union]] on Wikipedia

[[Category:European countries]]
[[Category:Generation 1 locations]]
[[Category:Shattered Glass]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce locations]]
[[Category:The Headmasters locations]]