Editing Talk:Transformers Legends (comic)

HQ scans of BTE #10-12 for those who want them: [http://i.imgur.com/0NxxkEq.jpg], [http://i.imgur.com/aO2H7am.jpg], [http://i.imgur.com/VgFYgiJ.jpg] [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:55, 18 April 2015 (EDT)

== "Business Trip Edition" ==

I'm not sure this is the best translation. All of the dictionaries I've looked at translate "出張版" as [http://jisho.org/search/%E5%87%BA%E5%BC%B5%E7%89%88 "branch-off edition (of a series)"]. 出張 by itself ''does'' mean "business trip", but that's not literally what the kanji mean. It's like saying a getaway car is a car for vacations. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:35, 19 April 2015 (EDT)
:<nowiki>*poke*</nowiki> [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 05:20, 4 June 2015 (EDT)
::I guess nobody cares if I move the pages over to "Bonus Edition"? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:49, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

== Broken link? ==

The page link at the bottom doesn't seem to be working anymore for some reason. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 15:11, 31 August 2015 (EDT)
:[http://tf.takaratomy.co.jp/toy/search/legends/index.html The link on the TakTomy site's Legends homepage is broken, too.]  Weird.  Maybe they're planning a collection of the comics and want to take the free-to-view installments off the site?  I dunno. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 15:23, 31 August 2015 (EDT)
::Grrr... Makes me wish I had gotten around to take more pictures for articles before this happened. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 17:16, 31 August 2015 (EDT)
:::I think you can probably find the comics uploaded on other sites. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:53, 31 August 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, now it's back. Weird. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 16:21, 3 September 2015 (EDT)

== Proposal to use Japanese character names ==

I know it's probably been debated countless times on the wiki to the conclusion of the wiki uses English-based names, but considering that the ''Legends'' comic often relies on English-original versus Japanese-original name jokes, I propose that this page use exact names wherever possible, such as referring to the main characters by their Japanese names. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:57, 6 December 2015 (EST)

== Splitting ==

Since this article is getting super long, maybe we should just bite the bullet and split out the chapters to their own articles? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:06, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
:<nowiki>*poke*</nowiki> [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:53, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given how short some of the chapters are, my suggestion would be more of a sub-page setup, like [[Transformers Legends (comic)/Chapters 1-20]] (and so on) or something? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 14:01, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I considered that, but it seems like a pain to set up and link to properly. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 14:35, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
::::[[User:Saix/example|Set up an example article.]] I think it looks adequate when it comes to article length, especially since now the trend is for longer and more continuity-dense strips. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:48, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think I like individual articles. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 20:08, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'll third the notion of giving each chapter its own article. (Though, as a sidenote, I also kinda wish we'd use "manga" instead of "comic" in this article's title since we've traditionally used such to differentiate between comics of Western origin and those of Japanese origin.) --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:19, 26 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I too think a split is for the best by now, since Legends shows no sign of ending any time soon. --[[User:Apoc|Apoc]] ([[User talk:Apoc|talk]]) 01:09, 27 August 2016 (EDT)

== Article title and labeling ==
Why is it that we don't call this a manga? It's even written right to left. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:40, 27 August 2016 (EDT)
:Poke. Is there any opposition to re-titling the pages in accordance with our policies? The Bonus Editions even have "漫画" on the page! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 20:05, 30 October 2016 (EDT)
::I'm opposed to the pointless usage of "manga" instead of "comic". But if that is what we've been doing....--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:35, 31 October 2016 (EDT)
::There's not much point to changing it outside of weebing. Manga is comics. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 13:47, 31 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Consistency and uniformity with other Japanese comic articles on this Wiki that use "manga" in their titles? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:22, 31 October 2016 (EDT)
::::Why not change them to "comic"? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:24, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
:::::''Why'' are they "manga" in the first place? Actual consistency would to have them all be "comic". We don't weeb it up and say "the Headmasters anime" or "Punch UFO is a seiyū". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:59, 2 November 2016 (EDT)
::::::I dunno. That was decided before my time, but I like it. Suppose that ''Transformers'' was principally divided between the U.S. and Latin America, and ''Transformers'' TV series were either English-language serial dramas or telenovelas. In such a scenario wouldn't it be useful to delineate between works produced under English-language auspices versus Spanish-language auspices? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:09, 2 November 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I really can't see a need for that as a category level thing. The fact that the first line has the original language title listed is enough for me. And why does this article use the Japanese word "otaku"? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:16, 2 November 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I also can't understand why we need a [[manga]] article. I mean, we don't have a <nowiki>[[comic book]]</nowiki> article. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:29, 2 November 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Considering that even American companies use the word "Manga" to distinguish Japanese-original comics from Western ones (i.e. - Barnes and Noble, Books-A-Million, and other bookstores have an entire section for Japanese comics that's labeled as the "Manga" section), is it really so offensive that several of this Wiki's original contributors who devoted much of their time and effort into covering the Japanese side of the Transformers brand (i.e. - DrSpengler, Lonergamer78, Chris McFeely, etc.) opted to go with "manga" as the term to distinguish the Japanese TF comics covered on this Wiki from the Western TF comics? Whether ya'll like it or not, the word "manga" has been integrated into the English language to refer to Japanese comics in an official Western publishing capacity. It is not "weeabooish" for a Westerner to refer to Japanese comics as "manga". What ''would'' be "weeabooish" would be for a Westerner to refer to ''all'' comics of any national origin as "manga" (because "''that'' is the Japanese way!"). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:27, 10 November 2016 (EST)
::::::::::Although I don't maintain the manga sections of this site so much anymore, I figured I'd chime in since I helped shape the manga articles and indexes in the formative years of TFWiki.  A lot has changed since 2007 when I started putting the manga info together for the site, so I'm not really sure if the divide between "comics" and "manga" stands as much now as it did then.  And even then, it was muddy enough that we chose not to impose such a divide.  Currently, we've got comics by Western artists and writers (Furman and Guidi) that have been published exclusively in Japan (so are they "manga"?), and comics by Japanese artists (Sakamoto, Tsushima) published exclusively in West (so are they "comic books"?).  The dividing line between the two is murkier now than it was in 2007 because we have more cross-pollination going on.  We decided early not to make such differentiations because even then it seemed asinine (remember when the Headmasters and Masterforce cartoons had "(anime)" clarifiers?  How long did those last?).  We maintained the [[manga]] article as a convenient index of all Transformers comics published in Japan by generation, and I always felt that was enough.  If someone wanted to find something they felt qualified as "manga", they could use that page.  Otherwise, it's all just comics same as it's all just cartoons.  We didn't divide them 10 years ago because there was too much overlap to define what made a comic qualify as one or the other, and now there's even MORE overlap so it seems less reasonable to segregate them.  We keep it up and we'll go back to "Headmasters (anime)" and "Masterforce (anime)" and I never thought that was a good idea.  We don't ignore the existence of the term "manga" or that there are elements to it that makes it distinct from Western comics (again, that's why we had the [[manga]] article), but we don't make lines in the sand to arbitrarily impose our own criteria as to what makes something a manga and what makes it a comic.  They're all just comics here.  But that was 2007.  Things have changed, so do what you will. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 09:56, 11 November 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I gather from this discussion, "There isn't much point to it, but it is something which is so on the wiki." Hence, I favor changing this and associated articles to match our policy. Any objections? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:28, 29 November 2016 (EST)
::::::::::::Still feel like it's pointless furniture-shifting. Change them all to "comics" if it really bothers you. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:37, 29 November 2016 (EST)


== EX labeling? ==
There are a handful of LG-EX issues that all just look like the same EX on this list.  Can we just name those after their toys?  --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:37, 1 April 2018 (EDT)

== Controversy section ==

We're almost two years out from Legends being over now, and with that hindsight in mind, I feel like we should probably add a "controversy" section a la Kiss Players. As it stands now we only have some snarky captions, but I do feel it's worth going into with more detail. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 12:23, 21 April 2021 (EDT)
:Well if there's not gonna be any objections, I'll just go ahead and do it myself. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 06:50, 22 June 2021 (EDT)
:: I'd agree with this - even if it cleaned up its act later on, Legends had some nasty stuff in there - but make a sandbox first before taking it live. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 07:06, 22 June 2021 (EDT)
On second thought: I don't have the emotional capacity to look through a bunch of grody stuff and write up about it. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 07:39, 22 June 2021 (EDT)
:::I think I'm going to take a stab at it, if that's alright with everyone. I think it's worth including. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 10:57, 16 December 2022 (EST)
::::I would point out that the examples you use regarding Megaempress and her Guards came from ''Unite Warriors'', not ''Legends''. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:01, 16 December 2022 (EST)

Sorry Azimuth, our edits overlapped.  I defer to your expertise on this issue.  --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:33, 16 December 2022 (EST)
:No biggie. As I kind of alluded to we were researching a "reception in Japan" type subsection for this amongst other things, I'll try to circle back to this when I can. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:46, 16 December 2022 (EST)
:::I know my original writeup (at least the second half) definitely got a little too...spirited. I appreciate the work of the other editors here in dialing it back and making it more presentable. It's a personal sticking point for me, so I hope my feelings on it are understandable. I think where it is now is definitely an improvement[[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 15:29, 16 December 2022 (EST)
::::Legends's treatment of female characters wasn't "women are weak", it was more "women are hot and sexy objects to be oogled and gawked at, and they do cutesy silly things because women being cutesy and silly is funny. Oh, and sometimes they get cranky and easily annoyed, because ''haha'' women, amirite?" Weakness wasn't much of a thing in Legends. Orthia got beaten and humiliated in Selects, but that's not Legends. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 15:47, 16 December 2022 (EST)
:::::I guess with giving Nightbird a clumsy switch, Arcee, and the later trends of characters like Orthia and other female characters just getting instantly defeated in Legends makes it overall seems that, while all your points are valid, it's more "fun" to have women be weak and easily humiliated than have them stand on their own as warriors or characters. Especially in contrast to other issues where we get legitimate character stories like Sixshot becoming Great Shot. I also realize my caption is snarky, but unless someone wants to discuss it being in bad faith enough to edit, I'd appreciate if we can leave it alone. Same with the original caption, it's been like that for years now. 16:14, 16 December 2022 (EST)
::::::I saw the edit was made by someone without an editor page, so I had assumed someone was just being arbitrary, I won't touch the image captions again. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 16:44, 16 December 2022 (EST) 16:43, 16 December 2022 (EST)
:::::::Can we please stop using Orthia as an example of anything because that comic is literally about the Terrorcons kicking everybody's ass (because they're the toys being advertised). And clumsy Nightbird isn't Nightbird in particular but duplicates made to be mass-market maid robots (which isn't great, but don't recharacterize what's happening). The Arcee critique being pushed here also doesn't make sense because it's a goofy office AU and not beholden to what other media across the ocean is doing; of course she's not going to be a "warrior" in this setting. There's critiques to be made, but you're hyperfixating on some points you've taken out of context and not really taking the entire series in consideration. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:13, 16 December 2022 (EST)
Circling back, I finally managed to dig up our current lead translator [[User:Star Spangled Sam|Star Spangled Sam's]] old notes on the subject so we're gonna start folding those in. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 17:16, 16 December 2022 (EST)

== Split the characters off ==

Like the Legends world natives should get their own page. It's confusing when I want to know about that Waspinator but have to read through a bunch of other stuff to get there.--[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 06:04, 23 December 2022 (EST)