Scale - Revision history

AzimuthAcolyte: Tigatron -> Tigatron (BW) update

2026-03-09T16:52:58Z

Tigatron -> Tigatron (BW) update

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:52, 9 March 2026
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	[[File:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg\|left\|thumb\|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]		[[File:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg\|left\|thumb\|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

	The cast of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)\|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron#Toys\|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]] is a ''Tyrannosaurus rex'' but is shown in "[[The Agenda (Part III)]]", as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.		The cast of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)\|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron (BW)#Toys\|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]] is a ''Tyrannosaurus rex'' but is shown in "[[The Agenda (Part III)]]", as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.
	[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]		[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

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	Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other (a consistency made more easy to achieve thanks to CGI used to animate), their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)\|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)\|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.		Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other (a consistency made more easy to achieve thanks to CGI used to animate), their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)\|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)\|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

	[[Cheetor (BW)\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink\|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink\|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros (he's roughly the correct size for a Sumatran rhinoceros, but seriously undersized for a white rhinoceros, the two living species of rhinos with two horns and more or less the same head shape as his beast-mode), and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, despite being by far the shortest of the Maximals, [[Rattrap (BW)\|Rattrap]] is still a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real ''Velociraptor''. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a ''T. rex''. In their interactions with adult [[anthropoid]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.		[[Cheetor (BW)\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron (BW)\|Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink\|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink\|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros (he's roughly the correct size for a Sumatran rhinoceros, but seriously undersized for a white rhinoceros, the two living species of rhinos with two horns and more or less the same head shape as his beast-mode), and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, despite being by far the shortest of the Maximals, [[Rattrap (BW)\|Rattrap]] is still a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real ''Velociraptor''. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a ''T. rex''. In their interactions with adult [[anthropoid]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

	However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers generally scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size - additionally, they were not so much attempting to ''disguise'' themselves, as to ''protect'' themselves from an excess of Energon. This is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt-modes the ''right'' size.		However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers generally scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size - additionally, they were not so much attempting to ''disguise'' themselves, as to ''protect'' themselves from an excess of Energon. This is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt-modes the ''right'' size.

Sabrblade at 07:59, 9 March 2026

2026-03-09T07:59:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:59, 9 March 2026
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	[[File:Beastwarriors scale.jpg\|right\|upright=0.85\|thumb\|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blastizone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]		[[File:Beastwarriors scale.jpg\|right\|upright=0.85\|thumb\|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blastizone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
	Between the [[Great War (G1)\|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)\|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)\|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink\|Master Blaster\|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)\|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.		Between the [[Great War (G1)\|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size during the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)\|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)\|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink\|Master Blaster\|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)\|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.

	[[File:Cosmos MTMTE.jpg\|thumb\|upright=1.0\|left\|Finally, drawn in alternate mode scale!]]On the other hand, ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)\|Robotmasters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blastizone]] may somehow {{w\|Boom tube#Later additions to the concept\|account for this discrepancy}}. On the other hand, ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)\|Car Robots]]'' characters were retconned to be time travelers from the Maximal/Predacon-dominated era of the future, yet the amnesiac [[Tow-Line (RID)\|Wrecker Hook]] is the same size as his 21st century Decepticon comrades. Similarly, the ''[[Transformers: Wings Universe\|Wings Universe]]'' comic "[[Hoist the Flag]]" features 21st century Cybertronians (including several ex-Decepticons) alongside 30th century Cybertronians (including Maximals as well as long-lived Autobots), all at the same size. And this continuity is ''supposed'' to contain a near-identical version of the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon.		[[File:Cosmos MTMTE.jpg\|thumb\|upright=1.0\|left\|Finally, drawn in alternate mode scale!]]On the other hand, ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)\|Robotmasters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blastizone]] may somehow {{w\|Boom tube#Later additions to the concept\|account for this discrepancy}}. On the other hand, ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)\|Car Robots]]'' characters were retconned to be time travelers from the Maximal/Predacon-dominated era of the future, yet the amnesiac [[Tow-Line (RID)\|Wrecker Hook]] is the same size as his 21st century Decepticon comrades. Similarly, the ''[[Transformers: Wings Universe\|Wings Universe]]'' comic "[[Hoist the Flag]]" features 21st century Cybertronians (including several ex-Decepticons) alongside 30th century Cybertronians (including Maximals as well as long-lived Autobots), all at the same size. And this continuity is ''supposed'' to contain a near-identical version of the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon.

BerylRoll at 13:58, 15 February 2026

2026-02-15T13:58:53Z

Show changes

BluJayWarrior: added suite

2025-11-26T19:42:18Z

added suite

Nemesis Primal at 22:49, 13 October 2025

2025-10-13T22:49:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:49, 13 October 2025
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	Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.		Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

	Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, ~~bot~~ of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.		Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, both of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.

	Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.		Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

Nemesis Primal at 03:16, 12 October 2025

2025-10-12T03:16:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 12 October 2025
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	Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.		Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

	Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously).		Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, bot of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.

	Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.		Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

Usfmm at 01:26, 4 October 2025

2025-10-04T01:26:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:26, 4 October 2025
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	[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]		[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

	The ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)\|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)\|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)#Beast Machines\|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)\|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys\|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#Robots in Disguise\|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink\|Prime Spark (story)\|Prime Spark}})		The ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)\|Beast Machines]]'' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)\|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)#Beast Machines\|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)\|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys\|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#Robots in Disguise\|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink\|Prime Spark (story)\|Prime Spark}})

	[[File:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg\|left\|thumb\|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]		[[File:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg\|left\|thumb\|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

Kalb157: /* Live-action film series */

2025-07-13T14:59:53Z

Live-action film series

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:59, 13 July 2025
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	[[File:TF07 OptimusScale.jpeg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb]]		[[File:TF07 OptimusScale.jpeg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb]]
	Optimus Prime himself is actually undersized compared to the Peterbilt 379 he transforms into — production notes made by ILM animators show that they made models of Optimus ~~scales~~ at 28 feet and 35 feet for the 2007 film, and that the wheel and fender of Prime's front tires (the ones at his ankles) are closest to 1:1 scale with the 35 foot model.		Optimus Prime himself is actually undersized compared to the Peterbilt 379 he transforms into — production notes made by ILM animators show that they made models of Optimus scaled at 28 feet and 35 feet for the 2007 film, and that the wheel and fender of Prime's front tires (the ones at his ankles) are closest to 1:1 scale with the 35 foot model.

	The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.		The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.

Kalb157: /* Live-action film series */

2025-07-13T14:59:21Z

Live-action film series

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:59, 13 July 2025
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	[[Megatron (Movie)\|Megatron]] brings a few issues all on his own. Official sources for the first three movies cite Megatron as being 35 feet tall and Optimus Prime as 28 feet tall, which in ''theory'' would make Megatron about a head taller than Optimus but in ''practice'' they stand about eye level in full body shots they share together. Conversely, other scenes such as their gunfight in Mission City clearly depict Megatron dwarfing Optimus. ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)\|The Last Knight]]'' has a particularly glaring example of size changing: while promotional materials state that there is only a two-foot height difference between Megatron (now 30 feet tall) and Optimus Prime, Megatron seems to tower over Optimus in the shot where he steals Quintessa's staff, yet is almost exactly the same size as Optimus throughout the rest of the film.		[[Megatron (Movie)\|Megatron]] brings a few issues all on his own. Official sources for the first three movies cite Megatron as being 35 feet tall and Optimus Prime as 28 feet tall, which in ''theory'' would make Megatron about a head taller than Optimus but in ''practice'' they stand about eye level in full body shots they share together. Conversely, other scenes such as their gunfight in Mission City clearly depict Megatron dwarfing Optimus. ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)\|The Last Knight]]'' has a particularly glaring example of size changing: while promotional materials state that there is only a two-foot height difference between Megatron (now 30 feet tall) and Optimus Prime, Megatron seems to tower over Optimus in the shot where he steals Quintessa's staff, yet is almost exactly the same size as Optimus throughout the rest of the film.

			[[File:TF07 OptimusScale.jpeg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb]]
			Optimus Prime himself is actually undersized compared to the Peterbilt 379 he transforms into — production notes made by ILM animators show that they made models of Optimus scales at 28 feet and 35 feet for the 2007 film, and that the wheel and fender of Prime's front tires (the ones at his ankles) are closest to 1:1 scale with the 35 foot model.

	The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.		The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.

Kalb157: /* Live-action film series */

2025-07-04T13:22:57Z

Live-action film series

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:22, 4 July 2025
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	The creators of the [[Transformers (film)\|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues (well, greater than previous franchises). This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)\|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode, although [[Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)\|Age of Extinction]] would later give Prime his more classic flat-nosed truck mode without any notecable change of mass of his robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)\|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.		The creators of the [[Transformers (film)\|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues (well, greater than previous franchises). This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)\|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode, although [[Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)\|Age of Extinction]] would later give Prime his more classic flat-nosed truck mode without any notecable change of mass of his robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)\|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

	There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky\|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes\|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30 cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience, and other visual cheats to make the robots seem shorter or taller were used in the movies. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)\|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. [[Megatron (Movie)\|Megatron]] in [[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)\|The Last Knight]] is particularly ~~confusing;~~ while ~~official sources~~ state that there is only a two-foot height difference between Megatron and Optimus Prime, Megatron seems to tower over ~~Prime~~ in the shot where he steals Quintessa's staff, yet is almost exactly the same size as Optimus throughout the rest of the film. The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.		There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky\|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes\|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30 cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience, and other visual cheats to make the robots seem shorter or taller were used in the movies. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)\|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone.

			[[Megatron (Movie)\|Megatron]] brings a few issues all on his own. Official sources for the first three movies cite Megatron as being 35 feet tall and Optimus Prime as 28 feet tall, which in ''theory'' would make Megatron about a head taller than Optimus but in ''practice'' they stand about eye level in full body shots they share together. Conversely, other scenes such as their gunfight in Mission City clearly depict Megatron dwarfing Optimus. ''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (film)\|The Last Knight]]'' has a particularly glaring example of size changing: while promotional materials state that there is only a two-foot height difference between Megatron (now 30 feet tall) and Optimus Prime, Megatron seems to tower over Optimus in the shot where he steals Quintessa's staff, yet is almost exactly the same size as Optimus throughout the rest of the film.

			The [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)\|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[alternate mode]]s, such as [[Blackout (Movie)\|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)\|Incinerator]]. Many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)\|Jazz]] and Classic Camaro [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys\|Bumblebee]] are obviously not the same scale, as noted above.

	[[Devastator (ROTF)\|Devastator]]'s size is particularly confusing. In ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)\|Revenge of the Fallen]]'', his size is based on the actual sizes of his components; the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)\|''ROTF'' game]] inflates his overall scale to a far larger size. The movie tries to circumvent the size differences between Devastator's individual components by adding [[unknown Constructicon dump truck\|more]] [[unknown Constructicon shovel\|construction vehicles]] into the Devastator combination. The toy line, on the other hand, [[Overload (ROTF)\|mostly]] ignores those additional components, resulting in massive scale discrepancies ([[#Toys out of scale within teams\|see above]]) - [[Long Haul (ROTF)\|Long Haul]], who forms Devastator's right leg, is a massive Caterpillar 773B mining dump truck, which should make him considerably larger than [[Rampage (ROTF)\|Rampage]], a Caterpillar D9L bulldozer who forms the left leg.		[[Devastator (ROTF)\|Devastator]]'s size is particularly confusing. In ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)\|Revenge of the Fallen]]'', his size is based on the actual sizes of his components; the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)\|''ROTF'' game]] inflates his overall scale to a far larger size. The movie tries to circumvent the size differences between Devastator's individual components by adding [[unknown Constructicon dump truck\|more]] [[unknown Constructicon shovel\|construction vehicles]] into the Devastator combination. The toy line, on the other hand, [[Overload (ROTF)\|mostly]] ignores those additional components, resulting in massive scale discrepancies ([[#Toys out of scale within teams\|see above]]) - [[Long Haul (ROTF)\|Long Haul]], who forms Devastator's right leg, is a massive Caterpillar 773B mining dump truck, which should make him considerably larger than [[Rampage (ROTF)\|Rampage]], a Caterpillar D9L bulldozer who forms the left leg.

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	[[File:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg\|left\|thumb\|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]		[[File:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg\|left\|thumb\|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

	The cast of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)\|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron#Toys\|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]] is a ''Tyrannosaurus rex'' but is shown in "[[The Agenda (Part III)]]", as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.		The cast of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)\|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]], who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] and [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, [[Cheetor (BW)/toys#Beast Wars\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron (BW)#Toys\|Tigatron]]'s toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys. This problem was magnified when the Generation 1 characters cameoed in the series. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]] is a ''Tyrannosaurus rex'' but is shown in "[[The Agenda (Part III)]]", as being much smaller than Optimus Prime.
	[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]		[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

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	Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other (a consistency made more easy to achieve thanks to CGI used to animate), their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)\|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)\|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.		Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other (a consistency made more easy to achieve thanks to CGI used to animate), their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)\|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)\|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

	[[Cheetor (BW)\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink\|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink\|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros (he's roughly the correct size for a Sumatran rhinoceros, but seriously undersized for a white rhinoceros, the two living species of rhinos with two horns and more or less the same head shape as his beast-mode), and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, despite being by far the shortest of the Maximals, [[Rattrap (BW)\|Rattrap]] is still a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real ''Velociraptor''. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a ''T. rex''. In their interactions with adult [[anthropoid]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.		[[Cheetor (BW)\|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron (BW)\|Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink\|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink\|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)\|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros (he's roughly the correct size for a Sumatran rhinoceros, but seriously undersized for a white rhinoceros, the two living species of rhinos with two horns and more or less the same head shape as his beast-mode), and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, despite being by far the shortest of the Maximals, [[Rattrap (BW)\|Rattrap]] is still a monstrously huge rat, the size of a Labrador dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)\|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real ''Velociraptor''. [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Megatron]], however, is a pitifully tiny specimen of a ''T. rex''. In their interactions with adult [[anthropoid]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

	However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers generally scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size - additionally, they were not so much attempting to ''disguise'' themselves, as to ''protect'' themselves from an excess of Energon. This is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt-modes the ''right'' size.		However, thanks to the scaling up of the arthropod characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers generally scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size - additionally, they were not so much attempting to ''disguise'' themselves, as to ''protect'' themselves from an excess of Energon. This is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt-modes the ''right'' size.

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	[[File:Beastwarriors scale.jpg\|right\|upright=0.85\|thumb\|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blastizone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]		[[File:Beastwarriors scale.jpg\|right\|upright=0.85\|thumb\|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blastizone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
	Between the [[Great War (G1)\|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)\|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)\|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink\|Master Blaster\|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)\|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.		Between the [[Great War (G1)\|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size during the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)\|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)\|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the Ark and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the [[Maximal]]s are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the Ark also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink\|Master Blaster\|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, [[Blackarachnia (BW)\|Blackarachnia]] can interface well with these controls.

	[[File:Cosmos MTMTE.jpg\|thumb\|upright=1.0\|left\|Finally, drawn in alternate mode scale!]]On the other hand, ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)\|Robotmasters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blastizone]] may somehow {{w\|Boom tube#Later additions to the concept\|account for this discrepancy}}. On the other hand, ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)\|Car Robots]]'' characters were retconned to be time travelers from the Maximal/Predacon-dominated era of the future, yet the amnesiac [[Tow-Line (RID)\|Wrecker Hook]] is the same size as his 21st century Decepticon comrades. Similarly, the ''[[Transformers: Wings Universe\|Wings Universe]]'' comic "[[Hoist the Flag]]" features 21st century Cybertronians (including several ex-Decepticons) alongside 30th century Cybertronians (including Maximals as well as long-lived Autobots), all at the same size. And this continuity is ''supposed'' to contain a near-identical version of the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon.		[[File:Cosmos MTMTE.jpg\|thumb\|upright=1.0\|left\|Finally, drawn in alternate mode scale!]]On the other hand, ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)\|Robotmasters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity\|Optimus Primal]] as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blastizone]] may somehow {{w\|Boom tube#Later additions to the concept\|account for this discrepancy}}. On the other hand, ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)\|Car Robots]]'' characters were retconned to be time travelers from the Maximal/Predacon-dominated era of the future, yet the amnesiac [[Tow-Line (RID)\|Wrecker Hook]] is the same size as his 21st century Decepticon comrades. Similarly, the ''[[Transformers: Wings Universe\|Wings Universe]]'' comic "[[Hoist the Flag]]" features 21st century Cybertronians (including several ex-Decepticons) alongside 30th century Cybertronians (including Maximals as well as long-lived Autobots), all at the same size. And this continuity is ''supposed'' to contain a near-identical version of the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon.

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	Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.		Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

	Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, ~~bot~~ of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.		Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, both of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.

	Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.		Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 12 October 2025
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	Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.		Other instances of multiple-size characters are more clear cut; the [[Spychanger]] incarnations of various [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)\|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] characters, for instance, are simply scaled-down representations of the same characters in the same bodies, not meant to interact with the much larger "main" toys, as are the later "Legends of Cybertron" toys in ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)\|Cybertron]]''. Other multiple-toy scale differences include intentionally simplified forms, such as the [[Fast Action Battlers]], which simply make all the characters the same size, with no attempt at matching scales.

	Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously).		Multiple-scale characters usually aren't meant to cross-interact. A rare exception is [[Transformers (2007 toyline)\|live-action]] [[Blackout (Movie)#Voyager Class toys\|Blackout]], who came with a [[Scorponok (Movie)#Voyager Class Blackout companions\|tiny (and correctly scaled) version of Scorponok]]. A much larger [[Scorponok (Movie)#Deluxe Class toys\|Deluxe version of Scorponok]] is ''also'' meant to interact with the same Blackout toy, despite the ridiculous scale disparity (and the fact that this means Blackout can have ''two'' Scorponoks of radically different size clipped to him simultaneously). A similar case occurs with the two ''Combiner Wars'' versions of Groove mentioned above, bot of which are intended as parts of the same Defensor.

	Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.		Multiple toy sizes are generally irrelevant to the fiction, though the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)\|''Cybertron'' cartoon]] featured [[Starscream (Armada)\|Starscream]] inflating to planetary size, presumably in response to the [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Supreme\|super-large "King Starscream" toy]] available at the time.

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:26, 4 October 2025
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	[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]		[[File:G1Prime BWMegs.jpg\|right\|upright=1.4\|thumb\|An example of how small Beast Wars Megatron is compared to Optimus Prime.]]

	The ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)\|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)\|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)#Beast Machines\|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)\|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys\|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#Robots in Disguise\|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink\|Prime Spark (story)\|Prime Spark}})		The ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)\|Beast Machines]]'' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the [[Maximal]]s featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)\|Silverbolt]], is [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)#Beast Machines\|the ''shortest'' toy]], while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)\|Nightscream]] is a [[Nightscream (BM)#Toys\|massive Ultra-class toy]]. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#Robots in Disguise\|Air Attack Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the [[King Kong]]-like size of this toy became [[canon]] in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink\|Prime Spark (story)\|Prime Spark}})

	[[File:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg\|left\|thumb\|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]		[[File:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg\|left\|thumb\|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:42, 26 November 2025
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	{{disambig2\|the controversial size difference\|the Mini-Con from Rescue Bots\|Scale (RB)}}		{{disambig2\|the controversial size difference\|the Mini-Con from Rescue Bots\|Scale (RB)}}
			{{suite}}
	[[File:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg\|right\|upright=1.67\|thumb\|And the truck's how big...?]]		[[File:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg\|right\|upright=1.67\|thumb\|And the truck's how big...?]]
	'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.		'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.
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	Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character. Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)\|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states [[Bumblebee (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity\|he's 15' tall]] {{storylink\|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.		Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character. Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)\|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states [[Bumblebee (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity\|he's 15' tall]] {{storylink\|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

	With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker (body-type)\|Seekers]] should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair (and also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult). [[Animated]] departs from this, where Decepticons are sometimes depicted larger than the Autobots to emphasize the rookie nature of the team handling imposing and dangerous enemies.		With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker (body-type)\|Seekers]] should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity\|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair (and also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult). ''[[Animated]]'' departs from this, where Decepticons are sometimes depicted larger than the Autobots to emphasize the rookie nature of the team handling imposing and dangerous enemies.

	In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and running up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink\|B.O.T. (episode)\|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things. In another variation of this, ''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)\|Prime]]'' [[Predaking (Prime)\|Predaking]] is a colossal monster in [[beast mode]] that even the upgraded [[Optimus Prime (WFC)\|Optimus Prime]] can barely look in the chest, but transforms into a beefy robot a head or two taller than [[Megatron (WFC)\|Megatron]]. Since for the majority of his presence on the show he is a loyal servant of Megatron, this was likely intentionally fudged so that he could have scenes inside the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)\|Nemesis]]'', which is also where one of his biggest and most plot-important [[Synthesis\|fight scenes]] takes place.		In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and running up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink\|B.O.T. (episode)\|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things. In another variation of this, ''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)\|Prime]]'' [[Predaking (Prime)\|Predaking]] is a colossal monster in [[beast mode]] that even the upgraded [[Optimus Prime (WFC)\|Optimus Prime]] can barely look in the chest, but transforms into a beefy robot a head or two taller than [[Megatron (WFC)\|Megatron]]. Since for the majority of his presence on the show he is a loyal servant of Megatron, this was likely intentionally fudged so that he could have scenes inside the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)\|Nemesis]]'', which is also where one of his biggest and most plot-important [[Synthesis\|fight scenes]] takes place.
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	At the time of ''[[Bumblebee (film)\|Bumblebee]]'', scaling concerns in relation between robot and vehicle modes were seemingly absent, at least in regards to airborne vehicles. Seekers, most notably Blitzwing (who later scans an Earth-based fighter jet) are mostly the same size as bots like Optimus, who maintains his truck mode. [[Shatter]] and [[Dropkick (Movie)\|Dropkick]] were introduced as the first Triple Changers in the film franchise with two Earth-based vehicle forms (with [[Drift (AOE)\|Drift]] having a Cybertronian helicopter mode alongside his car mode). While the two initially have their own customized muscle car alt-modes with no scaling issues, inconsistencies begin to appear as soon as they scan secondary airborne vehicle modes. Most notably, the additional [[kibble]] added to their bodies shows in glaring contrast to already-existing car parts, indicating that their aerial forms are quite undersized. While they're not shown next to humans in their jet and helicopter modes, their on-screen transformations do not indicate any notable size increase. In fact, they actually seem to ''increase'' their mass when changing from aerial vehicles ''into'' muscle cars.		At the time of ''[[Bumblebee (film)\|Bumblebee]]'', scaling concerns in relation between robot and vehicle modes were seemingly absent, at least in regards to airborne vehicles. Seekers, most notably Blitzwing (who later scans an Earth-based fighter jet) are mostly the same size as bots like Optimus, who maintains his truck mode. [[Shatter]] and [[Dropkick (Movie)\|Dropkick]] were introduced as the first Triple Changers in the film franchise with two Earth-based vehicle forms (with [[Drift (AOE)\|Drift]] having a Cybertronian helicopter mode alongside his car mode). While the two initially have their own customized muscle car alt-modes with no scaling issues, inconsistencies begin to appear as soon as they scan secondary airborne vehicle modes. Most notably, the additional [[kibble]] added to their bodies shows in glaring contrast to already-existing car parts, indicating that their aerial forms are quite undersized. While they're not shown next to humans in their jet and helicopter modes, their on-screen transformations do not indicate any notable size increase. In fact, they actually seem to ''increase'' their mass when changing from aerial vehicles ''into'' muscle cars.

	And then there's [[Mirage (~~ROTB~~)\|Mirage]] in ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts\|Rise of the Beasts]].'' Throughout most of the film he transforms into a Porsche 911 that's marginally smaller than the '78 Camaro that Bumblebee turns into, but both 'bots end up around the same height in robot mode. In one scene Mirage turns into a Lamborghini and a Formula One car, both of which are considerably larger yet shorter than the 911, without any visible changes in mass, but a few scenes later he turns into a dump truck that easily dwarfs the Freightliner cabover that Optimus transforms into. And ''then'' at the end of the movie, Mirage is able to disassemble himself and turn into a suit of armor that comfortably fits around Noah like an [[Iron Man]] suit. Yeah.		And then there's [[Mirage (Movie)\|Mirage]] in ''[[Transformers: Rise of the Beasts (film)\|Rise of the Beasts]].'' Throughout most of the film he transforms into a Porsche 911 that's marginally smaller than the '78 Camaro that Bumblebee turns into, but both 'bots end up around the same height in robot mode. In one scene Mirage turns into a Lamborghini and a Formula One car, both of which are considerably larger yet shorter than the 911, without any visible changes in mass, but a few scenes later he turns into a dump truck that easily dwarfs the Freightliner cabover that Optimus transforms into. And ''then'' at the end of the movie, Mirage is able to disassemble himself and turn into a suit of armor that comfortably fits around Noah like an [[Iron Man]] suit. Yeah.

	In terms of toys, the [[Studio Series]] line is designed to more-or-less avert these scale issues, as each figure is sized in relation to other toys, even in the same [[size class]]; Deluxe #18 Bumblebee is shorter than Deluxe Jazz and #01 Bumblebee, who are in turn shorter than Deluxe Ratchet and Lockdown.		In terms of toys, the ''[[Studio Series]]'' line is designed to more-or-less avert these scale issues, as each figure is sized in relation to other toys, even in the same [[size class]]; Deluxe #18 Bumblebee is shorter than Deluxe Jazz and #01 Bumblebee, who are in turn shorter than Deluxe Ratchet and Lockdown.

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