Talk:Decapitation - Revision history

Abates: /* Why do we have this page? */

2012-07-08T07:40:57Z

Why do we have this page?

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:40, 8 July 2012
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	I can only assume that decapitation is a more visceral way of dying than having characters be shot. Think about it, this media is written for people (Cpt. Obvious, again) and the main thing we associate with decapitation is death. Besides, would you rather see a character slice off another's head, or would you rather see them just get shot and die?--[[User:AWT88\|AWT88]] 23:38, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		I can only assume that decapitation is a more visceral way of dying than having characters be shot. Think about it, this media is written for people (Cpt. Obvious, again) and the main thing we associate with decapitation is death. Besides, would you rather see a character slice off another's head, or would you rather see them just get shot and die?--[[User:AWT88\|AWT88]] 23:38, 2 July 2009 (EDT)
	:Can't they just hug? :~( --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 00:13, 3 July 2009 (EDT)		:Can't they just hug? :~( --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 00:13, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
	::Probably not. Can anyone agree with me that Prime cut off a couple heads in [[The Veiled Threat]]? I know I read it, but am too tired, and lazy to look for it <sub>(also, I've had a few too many after work, if you catch my drift)</sub>.--[[User:AWT88\|AWT88]] 01:55, 3 July 2009 (EDT)		::Probably not. Can anyone agree with me that Prime cut off a couple heads in [[Transformers: The Veiled Threat\| The Veiled Threat]]? I know I read it, but am too tired, and lazy to look for it <sub>(also, I've had a few too many after work, if you catch my drift)</sub>.--[[User:AWT88\|AWT88]] 01:55, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

	== Live-action fatality ==		== Live-action fatality ==

108.11.46.36 at 23:29, 4 April 2012

2012-04-04T23:29:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:29, 4 April 2012
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	I think this page would be better if it were reworked and moved to "head" as a part of [[:category:Transformer anatomy]], then it can be described what a head is for and what happens when a Transformer becomes separated from his. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 23:36, 4 November 2009 (EST)		I think this page would be better if it were reworked and moved to "head" as a part of [[:category:Transformer anatomy]], then it can be described what a head is for and what happens when a Transformer becomes separated from his. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 23:36, 4 November 2009 (EST)

			==Transformers Prime Decapitation?==
			Both Breakdown and the Insecticon in Crossfire were decapitated.

Starfield: /* Rescope suggestion. */ new section

2009-11-05T04:36:40Z

Rescope suggestion.: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:36, 5 November 2009
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	::I too think it's noteworthy so I put it up in the Marvel comics section as quotes.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 13:47, 10 August 2009 (EDT)		::I too think it's noteworthy so I put it up in the Marvel comics section as quotes.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 13:47, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

			== Rescope suggestion. ==

			I think this page would be better if it were reworked and moved to "head" as a part of [[:category:Transformer anatomy]], then it can be described what a head is for and what happens when a Transformer becomes separated from his. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 23:36, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Deceptitran: BOT: replacing (1) links to "Talk:Death/Archive" with "Death/Archive"

2009-08-21T20:31:04Z

BOT: replacing (1) links to "Talk:Death/Archive" with "Death/Archive"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:31, 21 August 2009
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	:Decapitation is an oddity. Because sometimes it kills Transformers, but other Transformers have an entire gimmick based on removing their heads!		:Decapitation is an oddity. Because sometimes it kills Transformers, but other Transformers have an entire gimmick based on removing their heads!
	:Plus, there's a lot of marginal errata on the subject, established in letters pages and such asking questions about where a Transformer's brain or spark is located, and how-why they survive/don't survive decapitation. In short- Decapitation is more ''interesting'' than crushing or melting because it has implications for Transformers anatomy. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 21:53, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		:Plus, there's a lot of marginal errata on the subject, established in letters pages and such asking questions about where a Transformer's brain or spark is located, and how-why they survive/don't survive decapitation. In short- Decapitation is more ''interesting'' than crushing or melting because it has implications for Transformers anatomy. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 21:53, 2 July 2009 (EDT)
	::Meh, that's not limited to decapitation. Crushing Animated Blurr killed him (maybe), but lotsa Neo and RID guys transform by basically crushing themselves. TFs die when they get dropped into Unicron's gut-furnace, but dropping BW Megatron into lava made him into a dragon, and dropping G1 Megatron into lava did nothing at all. I'm not seeing why this wouldn't just be a subsection on [[To sell toys]] and/or [[~~Talk:~~Death/Archive\|Death]]. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 23:20, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		::Meh, that's not limited to decapitation. Crushing Animated Blurr killed him (maybe), but lotsa Neo and RID guys transform by basically crushing themselves. TFs die when they get dropped into Unicron's gut-furnace, but dropping BW Megatron into lava made him into a dragon, and dropping G1 Megatron into lava did nothing at all. I'm not seeing why this wouldn't just be a subsection on [[To sell toys]] and/or [[Death/Archive\|Death]]. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 23:20, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

	:::Well it's nothing worth losing your head over. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 23:21, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		:::Well it's nothing worth losing your head over. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 23:21, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

Dead Metal: /* Marvel UK letters page info */

2009-08-10T17:47:17Z

Marvel UK letters page info

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:47, 10 August 2009
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	:Oh, YES. That is seriously worth putting in there -- maybe as a wholesale quote somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers\|Repowers]] 18:52, 3 August 2009 (EDT)		:Oh, YES. That is seriously worth putting in there -- maybe as a wholesale quote somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers\|Repowers]] 18:52, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

			::I too think it's noteworthy so I put it up in the Marvel comics section as quotes.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 13:47, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

Deceptitran: BOT: replacing (1) links to "Death" with "Talk:Death/Archive"

2009-08-06T18:01:05Z

BOT: replacing (1) links to "Death" with "Talk:Death/Archive"

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:01, 6 August 2009
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	:Decapitation is an oddity. Because sometimes it kills Transformers, but other Transformers have an entire gimmick based on removing their heads!		:Decapitation is an oddity. Because sometimes it kills Transformers, but other Transformers have an entire gimmick based on removing their heads!
	:Plus, there's a lot of marginal errata on the subject, established in letters pages and such asking questions about where a Transformer's brain or spark is located, and how-why they survive/don't survive decapitation. In short- Decapitation is more ''interesting'' than crushing or melting because it has implications for Transformers anatomy. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 21:53, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		:Plus, there's a lot of marginal errata on the subject, established in letters pages and such asking questions about where a Transformer's brain or spark is located, and how-why they survive/don't survive decapitation. In short- Decapitation is more ''interesting'' than crushing or melting because it has implications for Transformers anatomy. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 21:53, 2 July 2009 (EDT)
	::Meh, that's not limited to decapitation. Crushing Animated Blurr killed him (maybe), but lotsa Neo and RID guys transform by basically crushing themselves. TFs die when they get dropped into Unicron's gut-furnace, but dropping BW Megatron into lava made him into a dragon, and dropping G1 Megatron into lava did nothing at all. I'm not seeing why this wouldn't just be a subsection on [[To sell toys]] and/or [[Death]]. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 23:20, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		::Meh, that's not limited to decapitation. Crushing Animated Blurr killed him (maybe), but lotsa Neo and RID guys transform by basically crushing themselves. TFs die when they get dropped into Unicron's gut-furnace, but dropping BW Megatron into lava made him into a dragon, and dropping G1 Megatron into lava did nothing at all. I'm not seeing why this wouldn't just be a subsection on [[To sell toys]] and/or [[Talk:Death/Archive\|Death]]. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 23:20, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

	:::Well it's nothing worth losing your head over. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 23:21, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		:::Well it's nothing worth losing your head over. -[[User:Derik\|Derik]] 23:21, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

Starfield: /* Live-action fatality */

2009-08-06T03:21:39Z

Live-action fatality

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:21, 6 August 2009
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	:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)		:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
	:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)		:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
			:::Grindor and The Fallen don't belong on this page. Grindor wasn't simply decapitated, his head was torn in half. The Fallen wasn't decapitated at all. Judging by the discussion here, saying that decapitation is generally fatal is unjustified when we have one example of a Transformer who was decapitated and ([[Buffalo MPV Decepticon\|probably]]) stayed dead. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 23:21, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

	== Marvel UK letters page info ==		== Marvel UK letters page info ==

Repowers: /* Marvel UK letters page info */

2009-08-03T22:52:14Z

Marvel UK letters page info

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:52, 3 August 2009
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	== Marvel UK letters page info ==		== Marvel UK letters page info ==
	As a follow-up to Derik's remark above, I've tracked down a couple of rather contradictory remarks made by 'Dreadwind'. In the letters page to issue 202, in response to someone asking why decapitation was fatal to Cyclonus but not Fortress Maximus et al., he replies:<blockquote>It's all a matter of how you remove your head. You see, even I - unh, there it goes - can take my head off. It's all a matter of how you do it. There's a whole set of mental commands that disconnect nerve endings and the like. If you just rip it off, fuel lines, neural connections and other vital bits are severed, as in the case of Cyclonus. Nine times out of ten it's fatal.</blockquote>In issue 228, when someone brings up the different fates of Cyclonus and Cloudburst, his answer is:<blockquote>Well, it's quite simple really: the 'stupid female' (!) in question kindly restored Cloudburst's head to its rightful place, i.e. on top of his shoulders. Cyclonus wasn't lucky enough to have somebody around to do the same.</blockquote>I don't know how much weight is attached to this sort of material, but it seems worth noting. --[[User:Tribimat\|Tribimat]] 18:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)		As a follow-up to Derik's remark above, I've tracked down a couple of rather contradictory remarks made by 'Dreadwind'. In the letters page to issue 202, in response to someone asking why decapitation was fatal to Cyclonus but not Fortress Maximus et al., he replies:<blockquote>It's all a matter of how you remove your head. You see, even I - unh, there it goes - can take my head off. It's all a matter of how you do it. There's a whole set of mental commands that disconnect nerve endings and the like. If you just rip it off, fuel lines, neural connections and other vital bits are severed, as in the case of Cyclonus. Nine times out of ten it's fatal.</blockquote>In issue 228, when someone brings up the different fates of Cyclonus and Cloudburst, his answer is:<blockquote>Well, it's quite simple really: the 'stupid female' (!) in question kindly restored Cloudburst's head to its rightful place, i.e. on top of his shoulders. Cyclonus wasn't lucky enough to have somebody around to do the same.</blockquote>I don't know how much weight is attached to this sort of material, but it seems worth noting. --[[User:Tribimat\|Tribimat]] 18:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

			:Oh, YES. That is seriously worth putting in there -- maybe as a wholesale quote somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers\|Repowers]] 18:52, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Tribimat at 22:43, 3 August 2009

2009-08-03T22:43:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:43, 3 August 2009
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	:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)		:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
	:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)		:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

			== Marvel UK letters page info ==
			As a follow-up to Derik's remark above, I've tracked down a couple of rather contradictory remarks made by 'Dreadwind'. In the letters page to issue 202, in response to someone asking why decapitation was fatal to Cyclonus but not Fortress Maximus et al., he replies:<blockquote>It's all a matter of how you remove your head. You see, even I - unh, there it goes - can take my head off. It's all a matter of how you do it. There's a whole set of mental commands that disconnect nerve endings and the like. If you just rip it off, fuel lines, neural connections and other vital bits are severed, as in the case of Cyclonus. Nine times out of ten it's fatal.</blockquote>In issue 228, when someone brings up the different fates of Cyclonus and Cloudburst, his answer is:<blockquote>Well, it's quite simple really: the 'stupid female' (!) in question kindly restored Cloudburst's head to its rightful place, i.e. on top of his shoulders. Cyclonus wasn't lucky enough to have somebody around to do the same.</blockquote>I don't know how much weight is attached to this sort of material, but it seems worth noting. --[[User:Tribimat\|Tribimat]] 18:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Ascendron: oops :P

2009-07-20T19:02:33Z

oops :P

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 20 July 2009
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	So Brawl's, Blackout's, Megatron's, Ravage's, Optimus', Mixmaster's, Jetfire's, Jazz's and the protoforms deaths don't count as real? [[User:Eire\|Eire]] 00.30 July 3 09 (UTC)		So Brawl's, Blackout's, Megatron's, Ravage's, Optimus', Mixmaster's, Jetfire's, Jazz's and the protoforms deaths don't count as real? [[User:Eire\|Eire]] 00.30 July 3 09 (UTC)
	: "Decapitation seems to only cause any real death in the movie continuity. With just a few instances leading to death in previous continuities." That means that the movie continuity is the only place where decapitation actually regularly results in death. In others, it's usually simply an inconvenience. --[[User:FortMax\|FortMax]] 20:00, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		: "Decapitation seems to only cause any real death in the movie continuity. With just a few instances leading to death in previous continuities." That means that the movie continuity is the only place where decapitation actually regularly results in death. In others, it's usually simply an inconvenience. --[[User:FortMax\|FortMax]] 20:00, 2 July 2009 (EDT)
	:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this perticular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

	== Why do we have this page? ==		== Why do we have this page? ==
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	I'm not seeing tons of evidence for that in this article so far. Barricade was decapitated in the comics and lived in the later comics, Bonecrusher was decapitated and assumed to have died off screen based primarily on the fact that decapitation is assumed to be fatal in this universe. The Fallen and Grindor had their face ripped off, but also suffered severe injuries to the torso. There may be more evidence out there, but right now I don't know why I should believe that. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 10:38, 10 July 2009 (EDT)		I'm not seeing tons of evidence for that in this article so far. Barricade was decapitated in the comics and lived in the later comics, Bonecrusher was decapitated and assumed to have died off screen based primarily on the fact that decapitation is assumed to be fatal in this universe. The Fallen and Grindor had their face ripped off, but also suffered severe injuries to the torso. There may be more evidence out there, but right now I don't know why I should believe that. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 10:38, 10 July 2009 (EDT)
	:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)		:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
			:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 20 July 2009
Line 2:		Line 2:
	So Brawl's, Blackout's, Megatron's, Ravage's, Optimus', Mixmaster's, Jetfire's, Jazz's and the protoforms deaths don't count as real? [[User:Eire\|Eire]] 00.30 July 3 09 (UTC)		So Brawl's, Blackout's, Megatron's, Ravage's, Optimus', Mixmaster's, Jetfire's, Jazz's and the protoforms deaths don't count as real? [[User:Eire\|Eire]] 00.30 July 3 09 (UTC)
	: "Decapitation seems to only cause any real death in the movie continuity. With just a few instances leading to death in previous continuities." That means that the movie continuity is the only place where decapitation actually regularly results in death. In others, it's usually simply an inconvenience. --[[User:FortMax\|FortMax]] 20:00, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		: "Decapitation seems to only cause any real death in the movie continuity. With just a few instances leading to death in previous continuities." That means that the movie continuity is the only place where decapitation actually regularly results in death. In others, it's usually simply an inconvenience. --[[User:FortMax\|FortMax]] 20:00, 2 July 2009 (EDT)
	:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this perticular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

	== Why do we have this page? ==		== Why do we have this page? ==
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	I'm not seeing tons of evidence for that in this article so far. Barricade was decapitated in the comics and lived in the later comics, Bonecrusher was decapitated and assumed to have died off screen based primarily on the fact that decapitation is assumed to be fatal in this universe. The Fallen and Grindor had their face ripped off, but also suffered severe injuries to the torso. There may be more evidence out there, but right now I don't know why I should believe that. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 10:38, 10 July 2009 (EDT)		I'm not seeing tons of evidence for that in this article so far. Barricade was decapitated in the comics and lived in the later comics, Bonecrusher was decapitated and assumed to have died off screen based primarily on the fact that decapitation is assumed to be fatal in this universe. The Fallen and Grindor had their face ripped off, but also suffered severe injuries to the torso. There may be more evidence out there, but right now I don't know why I should believe that. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 10:38, 10 July 2009 (EDT)
	:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)		:Barricade was killed in the adaption, but this was later retconed in the Reign of Starscream where he was just badly hurt after crashing into the pillar. Grindor didn't have his face ripped off, he had his head ripped apart.[[User:Dead Metal\|Dead Metal]] 06:41, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
			:: Wait, wait, I've been going through the wiki for a bit now, looking up some more information on this particular subject, and I just have to ask... Where is this assumption coming from? I mean, it seems that attacking the spark directly is a lot more effective, considering the second movie... Depending on how you see it, it looks like Bonecrusher is still kicking in the second movie. And there seems to be a lot of weight on attacking the spark actually resulting in death, more so then the head; like Megatron's eating of sparks (in the novelization, at least). Putting the Allspark in the chest brought a lot of attention in the first movie, as Optimus was talking about sacrificing himself, and later when Sam did it to Megatron. And both the Fallen and Jetfire's death seemed more tied to ripping the spark out of their chest more then anything else. I mean, sure, they can die from pure trauma (which decapitation falls under) but like most other continuities, it just seems that it's the spark that's the Transformers' Achilles heel. --[[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] 15:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)