Talk:Decepticon High Council - Revision history

Timrollpickering at 17:32, 11 March 2011

2011-03-11T17:32:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:32, 11 March 2011
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	The Decepticon leadership on Cybertron is never terribly well defined but my best guess is that there's a number of semi-independent war lords on Cybertron with a limited centralised leadership. It's possible that the Triumvirate's antics loosened Helex's grip on the rest of the Decepticons and whilst Megatron may have been able to take usurp their command in Helex he lacked authority over the rest of Cybertron and was thus just another war lord (and his Pretender scheme may have doubled as an attempt to retake control of the Decepticons on Earth to provide a resource base). Meanwhile the High Council is a normally obscure body for bringing the war lords together and they're trying to get a new acceptable overall leader to restore a sense of unity and purpose on Cybertron. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 10:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)		The Decepticon leadership on Cybertron is never terribly well defined but my best guess is that there's a number of semi-independent war lords on Cybertron with a limited centralised leadership. It's possible that the Triumvirate's antics loosened Helex's grip on the rest of the Decepticons and whilst Megatron may have been able to take usurp their command in Helex he lacked authority over the rest of Cybertron and was thus just another war lord (and his Pretender scheme may have doubled as an attempt to retake control of the Decepticons on Earth to provide a resource base). Meanwhile the High Council is a normally obscure body for bringing the war lords together and they're trying to get a new acceptable overall leader to restore a sense of unity and purpose on Cybertron. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 10:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)
	:That is a good observation about semi-independent warlords. Scorponok seemed semi-independent before he left Cybertron in ''Headmasters''. So you think the High Council appointed Thunderwing after Megastraxus deposed the Triumverate? Could be, I don't know. I still haven't read them. I was going by the title of the story [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]] when I figured Megastraxus became the overall leader instead of a regional warlord. The Empire fell with the Triumverate rose again with Megastraxus. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 14:10, 9 March 2011 (EST)		:That is a good observation about semi-independent warlords. Scorponok seemed semi-independent before he left Cybertron in ''Headmasters''. So you think the High Council appointed Thunderwing after Megastraxus deposed the Triumverate? Could be, I don't know. I still haven't read them. I was going by the title of the story [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]] when I figured Megastraxus became the overall leader instead of a regional warlord. The Empire fell with the Triumverate rose again with Megastraxus. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 14:10, 9 March 2011 (EST)

			::Well the Roman Empire that the title ultimately derives from also at its fall covered a rather small proportion of its once great extent - and the eastern/Byzantine empire consisted of little more than Constantinople in its last years. So there's precedent for the fall to see the Empire contracted and indeed at the end of the story Megatron comments how he has to first bring Cybertron "fully under Decepticon control once more!" before going to Earth. Clearly he's not yet got control of all of Cybertron though it's not immediately apparent who else controls what bit. It's notable that Scorponok is ignorant of who actually sent the Air Strike Patrol to Earth until Megatron's plan is sprung, suggesting a further degree of fragmentation even if the various leaders aren't actually in conflict with one another.
			::This idea of a fragmented leadership is by no means unique to Transformers - at around the same time in the mainstream Marvel universe the Skrulls fractured when their Empress was killed and five separate war lords sought to succeed her with some fighting a new war against the Kree to enhance their credentials, but without much actual Skrull on Skrull fighting. There too at least some of the war lords presented themselves to the outside world as though they were '''the''' Skrull ruler. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 12:32, 11 March 2011 (EST)

Starfield at 19:10, 9 March 2011

2011-03-09T19:10:55Z

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	The Decepticon leadership on Cybertron is never terribly well defined but my best guess is that there's a number of semi-independent war lords on Cybertron with a limited centralised leadership. It's possible that the Triumvirate's antics loosened Helex's grip on the rest of the Decepticons and whilst Megatron may have been able to take usurp their command in Helex he lacked authority over the rest of Cybertron and was thus just another war lord (and his Pretender scheme may have doubled as an attempt to retake control of the Decepticons on Earth to provide a resource base). Meanwhile the High Council is a normally obscure body for bringing the war lords together and they're trying to get a new acceptable overall leader to restore a sense of unity and purpose on Cybertron. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 10:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)		The Decepticon leadership on Cybertron is never terribly well defined but my best guess is that there's a number of semi-independent war lords on Cybertron with a limited centralised leadership. It's possible that the Triumvirate's antics loosened Helex's grip on the rest of the Decepticons and whilst Megatron may have been able to take usurp their command in Helex he lacked authority over the rest of Cybertron and was thus just another war lord (and his Pretender scheme may have doubled as an attempt to retake control of the Decepticons on Earth to provide a resource base). Meanwhile the High Council is a normally obscure body for bringing the war lords together and they're trying to get a new acceptable overall leader to restore a sense of unity and purpose on Cybertron. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 10:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)
			:That is a good observation about semi-independent warlords. Scorponok seemed semi-independent before he left Cybertron in ''Headmasters''. So you think the High Council appointed Thunderwing after Megastraxus deposed the Triumverate? Could be, I don't know. I still haven't read them. I was going by the title of the story [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]] when I figured Megastraxus became the overall leader instead of a regional warlord. The Empire fell with the Triumverate rose again with Megastraxus. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 14:10, 9 March 2011 (EST)

Timrollpickering at 15:30, 9 March 2011

2011-03-09T15:30:23Z

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	:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	::::That's what I'm wondering. What was Thunderwing appointed to? Is he being appointed to supreme commander of all Decepticons, or just leader of the army? I've been reading the US series and I get the idea that after Megatron was lost in the Volcano, the Decepticons on Cybertron had a shadowy leadership only hinted at in the books. Straxus was governor of Polyhex. Just governor of one providence? Ratbat was fuel auditor. Fuel auditor to whom? On Earth, when Ratbat took command of the Earth-based forces he took orders from [[Decepticon Imperial Headquarters]]. What's that now? Then Thunderwing appears before this council and Megatron clone destroys the Triumverate in a book called "The Fall... of the Decepticon Empire." Was the Trimuverate there the whole time running things? It looks to me like they were. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::::That's what I'm wondering. What was Thunderwing appointed to? Is he being appointed to supreme commander of all Decepticons, or just leader of the army? I've been reading the US series and I get the idea that after Megatron was lost in the Volcano, the Decepticons on Cybertron had a shadowy leadership only hinted at in the books. Straxus was governor of Polyhex. Just governor of one providence? Ratbat was fuel auditor. Fuel auditor to whom? On Earth, when Ratbat took command of the Earth-based forces he took orders from [[Decepticon Imperial Headquarters]]. What's that now? Then Thunderwing appears before this council and Megatron clone destroys the Triumverate in a book called "The Fall... of the Decepticon Empire." Was the Trimuverate there the whole time running things? It looks to me like they were. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

			Okay the basic problem is the UK stories printed between issues #213 & #250 are in a rather haphazard order, complicated by:

			* A new format that ran the US & UK stories in separate sections
			* The reprints of the US stories being interrupted with UK reprints for 11 issues
			* Simon Furman trying to tie the two strips together only for the reprints to throw everything out of sync
			* ''Possibly'' Hasbro UK asking for the Micromasters to be prominently featured sooner resulting in things being juggled about a bit (and they ''still'' have a prominent "debut" issue nine issues ''after'' they first appear)
			* ''Possibly also'' a delay in the Two Megatrons story so it would run in sync with Megatron's return in the US stories

			Thunderwing and those around him are amongst the worst hit as in order we see him first on a test to prove his credential to lead ending in him diving into an Earth sea ablaze, then as a commander on Cybertron (I always assumed A Small War is set as he's rising up the ranks rather than after he's been made overall leader), then we learn of the changes on Cybertron since he became leader, then we get him emerging from the sea & being appointed leader, and finally we get his US appearances.

			The Decepticon leadership on Cybertron is never terribly well defined but my best guess is that there's a number of semi-independent war lords on Cybertron with a limited centralised leadership. It's possible that the Triumvirate's antics loosened Helex's grip on the rest of the Decepticons and whilst Megatron may have been able to take usurp their command in Helex he lacked authority over the rest of Cybertron and was thus just another war lord (and his Pretender scheme may have doubled as an attempt to retake control of the Decepticons on Earth to provide a resource base). Meanwhile the High Council is a normally obscure body for bringing the war lords together and they're trying to get a new acceptable overall leader to restore a sense of unity and purpose on Cybertron. [[User:Timrollpickering\|Timrollpickering]] 10:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)

Starfield at 01:40, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:40:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:40, 15 November 2009
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	::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			::::That's what I'm wondering. What was Thunderwing appointed to? Is he being appointed to supreme commander of all Decepticons, or just leader of the army? I've been reading the US series and I get the idea that after Megatron was lost in the Volcano, the Decepticons on Cybertron had a shadowy leadership only hinted at in the books. Straxus was governor of Polyhex. Just governor of one providence? Ratbat was fuel auditor. Fuel auditor to whom? On Earth, when Ratbat took command of the Earth-based forces he took orders from [[Decepticon Imperial Headquarters]]. What's that now? Then Thunderwing appears before this council and Megatron clone destroys the Triumverate in a book called "The Fall... of the Decepticon Empire." Was the Trimuverate there the whole time running things? It looks to me like they were. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Monzo at 01:19, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:19:23Z

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	:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Starfield at 01:15, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:15:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:15, 15 November 2009
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	This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)		This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[he Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Starfield at 01:14, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:14:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:14, 15 November 2009
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	This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)		This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[he Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Chris McFeely at 01:04, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:04:58Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:04, 15 November 2009
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	This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)		This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]". - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Chris McFeely at 01:03, 15 November 2009

2009-11-15T01:03:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:03, 15 November 2009
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	This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)		This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire\|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!\|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]". - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Starfield: New page: This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and...

2009-11-15T00:37:54Z

New page: This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and...

New page

This council would have to have been under Straxus/Megatron, right? Unless the chronology in the UK books is weird. Straxus/Megatron took control of the Decepticon Empire in [[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire|#214]] the events here took place from #230–242 then Straxus/Megatron died in [[Two Megatrons!|#244]]. That would make Staxus/Megatron the emperor who, through this council, appointed Thunderwing to be head of his army. Or something. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:40, 15 November 2009
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	::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			::::That's what I'm wondering. What was Thunderwing appointed to? Is he being appointed to supreme commander of all Decepticons, or just leader of the army? I've been reading the US series and I get the idea that after Megatron was lost in the Volcano, the Decepticons on Cybertron had a shadowy leadership only hinted at in the books. Straxus was governor of Polyhex. Just governor of one providence? Ratbat was fuel auditor. Fuel auditor to whom? On Earth, when Ratbat took command of the Earth-based forces he took orders from [[Decepticon Imperial Headquarters]]. What's that now? Then Thunderwing appears before this council and Megatron clone destroys the Triumverate in a book called "The Fall... of the Decepticon Empire." Was the Trimuverate there the whole time running things? It looks to me like they were. - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:19, 15 November 2009
Line 2:		Line 2:
	:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)		:The continuity ''is'' screwy. Remember that in taking place before [[A Small War!\|#232-233]], "Assault on the Ark" in turn takes place fourteen months before "[[King Con!]]", which would almost certainly place it before Straxus/Megatron's return to Cybertron. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] 20:03, 14 November 2009 (EST)
	::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)		::So this Council is under the [[Triumverate]] ([[The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire]])? - [[User:Starfield\|Starfield]] 20:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)
			:::I have always assumed the High Council was under themselves, because what Decepticon leader or group of leaders would elect a council to vote someone else into their office of leadership? --[[User:Monzo\|Monzo]] 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)