Talk:Iocus - Revision history

NexusShard17 at 16:04, 4 October 2018

2018-10-04T16:04:40Z

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	::::::::::I think if the character is too different than any other version of him/her, then it deserves a page, in my opinion.		::::::::::I think if the character is too different than any other version of him/her, then it deserves a page, in my opinion.
	Bot Shots characters are clearly meant to be new versions but takes the desings from older versions. --[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 23:09, 26 July 2015 (EDT)		Bot Shots characters are clearly meant to be new versions but takes the desings from older versions. --[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 23:09, 26 July 2015 (EDT)
	:What about Kre-O? There's a lot more fiction than, say, Bot Shots, but there are some guys that are ''clearly'' supposed to be [[Kup (G1)/toys#Kre-O\|G1]], [[:File:Kre-O-Autobot-Command-Center.jpg\|Prime]]/[[Hun-Gurrr (Prime)#Kre-O\|Beast Hunters]], [[Lockdown (~~Prime~~)#Kre-O\|Age of Extinction]], etc. Personally, I think BotShots et al should stay on their own pages. They don't really neatly fit on anyone else's page as witnessed by above discussions. And how can we say what character pages Construct-Bots belong on? Just because they have a G1 head? --[[User:Crockalley\|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley\|talk]]) 08:39, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		:What about Kre-O? There's a lot more fiction than, say, Bot Shots, but there are some guys that are ''clearly'' supposed to be [[Kup (G1)/toys#Kre-O\|G1]], [[:File:Kre-O-Autobot-Command-Center.jpg\|Prime]]/[[Hun-Gurrr (Prime)#Kre-O\|Beast Hunters]], [[Lockdown (ROTF)#Kre-O\|Age of Extinction]], etc. Personally, I think BotShots et al should stay on their own pages. They don't really neatly fit on anyone else's page as witnessed by above discussions. And how can we say what character pages Construct-Bots belong on? Just because they have a G1 head? --[[User:Crockalley\|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley\|talk]]) 08:39, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	::Kre-O is a separate subject ([[Fornax]]) but it's got the whole "these are literally brick-made beings" thing going on to justify it as a unique universe. Construct-Bots seem relatively straight-forward to me, although I suppose an argument about WFC designs being so very G1-ish could lead to an argument about whether the G1 guys there could be potentially also be considered Aligned. Bot Shots is where I think most of the ambiguity comes up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		::Kre-O is a separate subject ([[Fornax]]) but it's got the whole "these are literally brick-made beings" thing going on to justify it as a unique universe. Construct-Bots seem relatively straight-forward to me, although I suppose an argument about WFC designs being so very G1-ish could lead to an argument about whether the G1 guys there could be potentially also be considered Aligned. Bot Shots is where I think most of the ambiguity comes up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	:The only Bot Shots that seem to be confusing enough to potentially warrant their own pages (which I really think we ought to avoid) are the ones like all the Megatrons that have Prime Megatron's head but DOTM Megatron's altmode and deco. Or the unreleased Combaticon five-pack Brawl that uses the Movie-esque Bot Shots Brawl mold in G1 Brawl colors and comes with G1 Brawl's teammates. Aside from the few cases like those, however, the majority of all Bot Shots can fit well enough onto non-Iocus character pages.		:The only Bot Shots that seem to be confusing enough to potentially warrant their own pages (which I really think we ought to avoid) are the ones like all the Megatrons that have Prime Megatron's head but DOTM Megatron's altmode and deco. Or the unreleased Combaticon five-pack Brawl that uses the Movie-esque Bot Shots Brawl mold in G1 Brawl colors and comes with G1 Brawl's teammates. Aside from the few cases like those, however, the majority of all Bot Shots can fit well enough onto non-Iocus character pages.

NexusShard17 at 16:04, 4 October 2018

2018-10-04T16:04:16Z

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	::::::::::I think if the character is too different than any other version of him/her, then it deserves a page, in my opinion.		::::::::::I think if the character is too different than any other version of him/her, then it deserves a page, in my opinion.
	Bot Shots characters are clearly meant to be new versions but takes the desings from older versions. --[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 23:09, 26 July 2015 (EDT)		Bot Shots characters are clearly meant to be new versions but takes the desings from older versions. --[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 23:09, 26 July 2015 (EDT)
	:What about Kre-O? There's a lot more fiction than, say, Bot Shots, but there are some guys that are ''clearly'' supposed to be [[Kup (Kre-O)\|G1]], [[:File:Kre-O-Autobot-Command-Center.jpg\|Prime]]/[[Hun-Gurrr (Kre-O)\|Beast Hunters]], [[Lockdown (Kre-O)\|Age of Extinction]], etc. Personally, I think BotShots et al should stay on their own pages. They don't really neatly fit on anyone else's page as witnessed by above discussions. And how can we say what character pages Construct-Bots belong on? Just because they have a G1 head? --[[User:Crockalley\|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley\|talk]]) 08:39, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		:What about Kre-O? There's a lot more fiction than, say, Bot Shots, but there are some guys that are ''clearly'' supposed to be [[Kup (G1)/toys#Kre-O\|G1]], [[:File:Kre-O-Autobot-Command-Center.jpg\|Prime]]/[[Hun-Gurrr (Prime)#Kre-O\|Beast Hunters]], [[Lockdown (Prime)#Kre-O\|Age of Extinction]], etc. Personally, I think BotShots et al should stay on their own pages. They don't really neatly fit on anyone else's page as witnessed by above discussions. And how can we say what character pages Construct-Bots belong on? Just because they have a G1 head? --[[User:Crockalley\|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley\|talk]]) 08:39, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	::Kre-O is a separate subject ([[Fornax]]) but it's got the whole "these are literally brick-made beings" thing going on to justify it as a unique universe. Construct-Bots seem relatively straight-forward to me, although I suppose an argument about WFC designs being so very G1-ish could lead to an argument about whether the G1 guys there could be potentially also be considered Aligned. Bot Shots is where I think most of the ambiguity comes up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		::Kre-O is a separate subject ([[Fornax]]) but it's got the whole "these are literally brick-made beings" thing going on to justify it as a unique universe. Construct-Bots seem relatively straight-forward to me, although I suppose an argument about WFC designs being so very G1-ish could lead to an argument about whether the G1 guys there could be potentially also be considered Aligned. Bot Shots is where I think most of the ambiguity comes up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	:The only Bot Shots that seem to be confusing enough to potentially warrant their own pages (which I really think we ought to avoid) are the ones like all the Megatrons that have Prime Megatron's head but DOTM Megatron's altmode and deco. Or the unreleased Combaticon five-pack Brawl that uses the Movie-esque Bot Shots Brawl mold in G1 Brawl colors and comes with G1 Brawl's teammates. Aside from the few cases like those, however, the majority of all Bot Shots can fit well enough onto non-Iocus character pages.		:The only Bot Shots that seem to be confusing enough to potentially warrant their own pages (which I really think we ought to avoid) are the ones like all the Megatrons that have Prime Megatron's head but DOTM Megatron's altmode and deco. Or the unreleased Combaticon five-pack Brawl that uses the Movie-esque Bot Shots Brawl mold in G1 Brawl colors and comes with G1 Brawl's teammates. Aside from the few cases like those, however, the majority of all Bot Shots can fit well enough onto non-Iocus character pages.

S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47: Fixing signature.

2016-03-09T06:56:43Z

Fixing signature.

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:56, 9 March 2016
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	I thought there should be some record on the wiki (I can't find any) of why the Iocus characters are being changed to G1 or whatever. I understand the clutter of dozens of pages with little-to-no real info outside of the toy. However, I have a hard time wrapping my head around a character from one continuity family being listed on another continuity family's page. Construct-Bots Ironhide is from Iocus, not Primax. How does it work having that toy on G1 Ironhide's page? --07:53, 26 July 2015 (EDT)		I thought there should be some record on the wiki (I can't find any) of why the Iocus characters are being changed to G1 or whatever. I understand the clutter of dozens of pages with little-to-no real info outside of the toy. However, I have a hard time wrapping my head around a character from one continuity family being listed on another continuity family's page. Construct-Bots Ironhide is from Iocus, not Primax. How does it work having that toy on G1 Ironhide's page? --[[User:Crockalley\|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley\|talk]]) 07:53, 26 July 2015 (EDT)
	::After the inclusion of Attacktix (which has characters that are undoubtedly from the UT and Star Wars), it was decided that this was evidence enough that Iocus wasn't to be taken as definitive on wiki organization. It's just one of those weird things that take in characters that are clearly from other universes—an in-fiction representation of how little Hasbro cares about continuity when it comes to those lines. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 08:16, 26 July 2015 (EDT)		::After the inclusion of Attacktix (which has characters that are undoubtedly from the UT and Star Wars), it was decided that this was evidence enough that Iocus wasn't to be taken as definitive on wiki organization. It's just one of those weird things that take in characters that are clearly from other universes—an in-fiction representation of how little Hasbro cares about continuity when it comes to those lines. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 08:16, 26 July 2015 (EDT)
	:::Which to me is why the DON'T belong on those pages. They don't fit with the character as a character because they aren't meant to be a character. They are meant to be a play pattern. I never liked having Attacktix or RPMs or any of the other play mechanics centric items on character pages and like it still less now. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:48, 26 July 2015 (EDT)		:::Which to me is why the DON'T belong on those pages. They don't fit with the character as a character because they aren't meant to be a character. They are meant to be a play pattern. I never liked having Attacktix or RPMs or any of the other play mechanics centric items on character pages and like it still less now. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:48, 26 July 2015 (EDT)

Broadside at 23:05, 16 December 2015

2015-12-16T23:05:45Z

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	::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)		I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)
			:The Battle Masters characters aren't on their own pages because they're amalgams, they're on their own pages because they're so unlike any other incarnations that it'd be entirely arbitrary to pick pages for them. The Bot Shots, etc, use "best fit" techniques, because all of them DO have a place where they fit best. Incidentally, what characters would get their own pages under your suggestions? --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 18:05, 16 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==
	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)

Lush City at 20:45, 16 December 2015

2015-12-16T20:45:19Z

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	:I still don't see how "well, this one looks like it belongs here, but this one looks like it belongs here, and this third one could go either way so let's talk about where to put them" is any simpler than "these are all from the Iocus cluster and belong on the same page". --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 13:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		:I still don't see how "well, this one looks like it belongs here, but this one looks like it belongs here, and this third one could go either way so let's talk about where to put them" is any simpler than "these are all from the Iocus cluster and belong on the same page". --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 13:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	:::I agree, I think the ~~deisre~~ to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from'' M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)		:::I agree, I think the desire to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from" M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)
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	::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==
	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)

Saix: Whoops

2015-12-15T21:05:14Z

Whoops

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	::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==

	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)
	:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	~~::You're replying to the wrong guy, Saix. --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 16:00, 15 December 2015 (EST)~~

Broadside: /* New Iocus proposal */

2015-12-15T21:00:05Z

New Iocus proposal

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 15 December 2015
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	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)
	:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			::You're replying to the wrong guy, Saix. --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 16:00, 15 December 2015 (EST)

Foffy the Sheep: Oops

2015-12-15T18:58:17Z

Oops

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	::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)

			::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==

Foffy the Sheep: That conversation happened five months ago.

2015-12-15T18:53:08Z

That conversation happened five months ago.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:53, 15 December 2015
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	::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	:::I agree, I think the deisre to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from'' M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)		:::I agree, I think the deisre to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from'' M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)

			::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==

Saix: /* New Iocus proposal */

2015-12-15T18:51:57Z

New Iocus proposal

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	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)
			:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)

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	::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)		I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)
			:The Battle Masters characters aren't on their own pages because they're amalgams, they're on their own pages because they're so unlike any other incarnations that it'd be entirely arbitrary to pick pages for them. The Bot Shots, etc, use "best fit" techniques, because all of them DO have a place where they fit best. Incidentally, what characters would get their own pages under your suggestions? --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 18:05, 16 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==
	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)

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	:I still don't see how "well, this one looks like it belongs here, but this one looks like it belongs here, and this third one could go either way so let's talk about where to put them" is any simpler than "these are all from the Iocus cluster and belong on the same page". --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 13:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		:I still don't see how "well, this one looks like it belongs here, but this one looks like it belongs here, and this third one could go either way so let's talk about where to put them" is any simpler than "these are all from the Iocus cluster and belong on the same page". --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 13:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)		::If Bot Shot Optimus, Megatron etc. is different than their older versions and deserves page, I see no reason why other Bot Shot characters have to be added to G1 or Movie or whatever pages. If one deserves a page, others deserves it too.--[[User:Primestar3\|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3\|talk]]) 19:00, 27 July 2015 (EDT)
	:::I agree, I think the ~~deisre~~ to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from'' M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)		:::I agree, I think the desire to cut up the Bot shots guys arbitrarily is akin to the "shit we should run away from" M Sipher was talking about. A lot of the Bot Shits designs are clearly iterations of the character using design cues and aspects from previous versions to make a new iteration; something very common; just look at various Animated Characters. For straight up transplants like with AOE or attackix the simple and obvious solution is to put them on the individual pages, but , by the inverse it is just as silly to take a new guy that is a fusion of G1 and film designs and just put him on G1 as a default (the "G1-itis" effect is also a separate problem i think can get a bit out o hand, but that's a different episode) I agree with Khajida, KilMichaelMcC, Riptide, Sorenson and Crockalleye where the Bot Shots guys should be treated like Shockwave for example. Like Cipher said, the desire to follow some hard and fast dogma over common sense is a bad idea. and playing eene meenie miney mo whether a guy is g1, Film or Aligned is for sure a bad idea [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 13:40, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::...You do realize you're replying to a conversation that took place five months ago, right, [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]]? Also, something about the italics in your post is screwy. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (EST)
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	::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			I wasn't debating the policy, I was discussing it's enforcement. I was saying the sensible placement of amalgam characters would be to give them there own pages like we did with Battlemasters Shockwave and Lockdown, rather than arbitrarily;y picking one source. [[User:Lush City\|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City\|talk]]) 15:45, 16 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==
	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)

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	::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)		::::Looks like while I was editing this section, [[User:Saix\|Saix]] said pretty much the same thing as I did in another section. Oops. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep\|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep\|talk]]) 13:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			::::::We are not debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)

	== New Iocus proposal ==		== New Iocus proposal ==

	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)
	:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
	~~::You're replying to the wrong guy, Saix. --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 16:00, 15 December 2015 (EST)~~

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 15 December 2015
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	I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)		I have posted a proposal for this whole Iocus nonsense on the community portal page. If we're still debating this, please consider reading my post there. I would appreciate feedback, so I can either implement that proposal, or start thinking up a new one that I hope will satisfy everyone equally. [[User:Ascendron\|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron\|talk]]) 02:34, 28 July 2015 (EDT)
	:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)		:There is no proposal on that page nor are we debating this anymore. The current status quo of sensibly putting merchandise and toys on characters they're based on is fine. [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 13:51, 15 December 2015 (EST)
			::You're replying to the wrong guy, Saix. --[[User:Riptide\|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide\|talk]]) 16:00, 15 December 2015 (EST)