Talk:One Shall Rise, Part 3 - Revision history

72.12.219.170: /* Shockwave */

2012-09-17T00:22:45Z

Shockwave

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:22, 17 September 2012
Line 58:		Line 58:
	[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)		[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
	:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)		:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
			::Doh![[Special:Contributions/72.12.219.170\|72.12.219.170]] 20:22, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

	== Bulkhead ==		== Bulkhead ==

	Isn't it possible Bulkhead is the only one affected by the Dark Energon because he's the only one who hasn't had prior contact with it? Optimus, Arcee, and Bumblebee (and Ratchet) have all had direct contact with the stuff, while the closest Bulkhead's gotten is when he fought Megatron back in One Shall Rise, Pt. 1. --[[Special:Contributions/98.236.35.25\|98.236.35.25]] 11:17, 13 September 2012 (EDT)		Isn't it possible Bulkhead is the only one affected by the Dark Energon because he's the only one who hasn't had prior contact with it? Optimus, Arcee, and Bumblebee (and Ratchet) have all had direct contact with the stuff, while the closest Bulkhead's gotten is when he fought Megatron back in One Shall Rise, Pt. 1. --[[Special:Contributions/98.236.35.25\|98.236.35.25]] 11:17, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

98.236.35.25: /* Bulkhead */ new section

2012-09-13T15:17:56Z

Bulkhead: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:17, 13 September 2012
Line 58:		Line 58:
	[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)		[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
	:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)		:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

			== Bulkhead ==

			Isn't it possible Bulkhead is the only one affected by the Dark Energon because he's the only one who hasn't had prior contact with it? Optimus, Arcee, and Bumblebee (and Ratchet) have all had direct contact with the stuff, while the closest Bulkhead's gotten is when he fought Megatron back in One Shall Rise, Pt. 1. --[[Special:Contributions/98.236.35.25\|98.236.35.25]] 11:17, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

Abates: /* Shockwave */

2012-09-12T08:47:44Z

Shockwave

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:47, 12 September 2012
Line 57:		Line 57:

	[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)		[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
			:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

192.249.47.177: /* Shockwave */ new section

2012-09-11T17:30:42Z

Shockwave: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:30, 11 September 2012
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	::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.		::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.
	::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)

			== Shockwave ==

			[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

71.132.130.31: Undo revision 661891 by 71.132.130.31 (Talk)

2011-11-14T01:15:34Z

Undo revision 661891 by 71.132.130.31 (Talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:15, 14 November 2011
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	::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.		::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.
	::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	::::I see your point of view on that Unicron was violating the basic laws of physics, so they might as well be consistent with that violation, and I think that it also works from that point of view. I have very little influence over what happens in this wiki, so that page will stay that way anyway. (Don't be discouraged from editing this wiki by this revert). --[[Special:Contributions/71.132.130.31\|71.132.130.31]] 20:08, 13 November 2011 (EST) (AutoUI logged out)

71.132.130.31 at 01:08, 14 November 2011

2011-11-14T01:08:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:08, 14 November 2011
Line 53:		Line 53:
	::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.		::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.
	::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
			::::I see your point of view on that Unicron was violating the basic laws of physics, so they might as well be consistent with that violation, and I think that it also works from that point of view. I have very little influence over what happens in this wiki, so that page will stay that way anyway. (Don't be discouraged from editing this wiki by this revert). --[[Special:Contributions/71.132.130.31\|71.132.130.31]] 20:08, 13 November 2011 (EST) (AutoUI logged out)

70.34.147.3: /* Disasters */

2011-11-13T09:23:03Z

Disasters

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:23, 13 November 2011
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	::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.
			::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)

70.34.147.3: /* Disasters */

2011-11-13T09:18:43Z

Disasters

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:18, 13 November 2011
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	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
			::::I'm saying that Unicron isn't just creating a simple force that operates on the rocks and the wind and the water. It's very clear that he's using a supernatural power that would be very unlikely to require conservation of momentum. Honestly, with the powers we've seen him have, he could even be teleporting all the particles around, so they don't have any inherent momentum at all. As soon as his power was extinguished, the water, rocks, and wind lost what he had put into them. If the natural disasters were meant to be just natural results of Unicron physically stretching, then I stand corrected, but they seemed to pretty clearly be supernatural, and thus it would make perfect sense that as soon as the the source of their momentum disappeared, they would quickly collapse under gravity and friction. If anything, the earthquakes would be the ''least'' likely to stop abruptly, as they are explicitly said to be a natural reaction to Unicron moving around.
			::::Even if you don't agree with my interpretation of how Unicron was operating (which I admit requires him to be ignoring standard physics), the storms were clearly freak occurrences that did not have the normal telegraphs--so it's unlikely that they were anything more than superficial, and there was clearly some influence from Unicron on keeping them going. Even if that's merely maintaining a temperature differential in the immediate locale of the tornado, or moving a wave of water, it's unlikely that he was controlling the conditions all the way to their normal genesis; for example, the entire heft of the ocean was not behind the tsunami. The implication is clearly that he was generating the tornadoes and the tsunami consciously, or their collapse upon his defeat would not make any sense physically or narratively; so even just on the basis of basic physics, the tornado would evaporate as quickly as a spent tornado would, the sky would clear up as it usually does at the end of a storm, and the tsunami (which was probably just a twenty foot wall of water without the full weight of the ocean behind it) would just fall over, getting the beaches a little wet. I don't think the wave falling over and the tornado evaporating should really be considered a technical error.
			::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)
			::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)

AutoUIMagnus299 at 09:01, 13 November 2011

2011-11-13T09:01:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:01, 13 November 2011
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	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)

AutoUIMagnus299 at 08:59, 13 November 2011

2011-11-13T08:59:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 13 November 2011
Line 47:		Line 47:
	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:22, 17 September 2012
Line 58:		Line 58:
	[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)		[[Out of the Past]] claims that Shockwave showed up in this episode, but he isn't mentioned on the page. I personally don't recall seeing him, can someone clear this up?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177\|192.249.47.177]] 13:30, 11 September 2012 (EDT)
	:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)		:That page mentions Soundwave in relation to this episode, not Shockwave. --[[User:Abates\|abates]] 04:47, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
			::Doh![[Special:Contributions/72.12.219.170\|72.12.219.170]] 20:22, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

	== Bulkhead ==		== Bulkhead ==

	Isn't it possible Bulkhead is the only one affected by the Dark Energon because he's the only one who hasn't had prior contact with it? Optimus, Arcee, and Bumblebee (and Ratchet) have all had direct contact with the stuff, while the closest Bulkhead's gotten is when he fought Megatron back in One Shall Rise, Pt. 1. --[[Special:Contributions/98.236.35.25\|98.236.35.25]] 11:17, 13 September 2012 (EDT)		Isn't it possible Bulkhead is the only one affected by the Dark Energon because he's the only one who hasn't had prior contact with it? Optimus, Arcee, and Bumblebee (and Ratchet) have all had direct contact with the stuff, while the closest Bulkhead's gotten is when he fought Megatron back in One Shall Rise, Pt. 1. --[[Special:Contributions/98.236.35.25\|98.236.35.25]] 11:17, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:23, 13 November 2011
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	::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)		::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.
			::::Merg. It's your guys's wiki, if you really think my interpretation is waterless, then I'll leave you alone.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)

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	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
			::::I'm saying that Unicron isn't just creating a simple force that operates on the rocks and the wind and the water. It's very clear that he's using a supernatural power that would be very unlikely to require conservation of momentum. Honestly, with the powers we've seen him have, he could even be teleporting all the particles around, so they don't have any inherent momentum at all. As soon as his power was extinguished, the water, rocks, and wind lost what he had put into them. If the natural disasters were meant to be just natural results of Unicron physically stretching, then I stand corrected, but they seemed to pretty clearly be supernatural, and thus it would make perfect sense that as soon as the the source of their momentum disappeared, they would quickly collapse under gravity and friction. If anything, the earthquakes would be the ''least'' likely to stop abruptly, as they are explicitly said to be a natural reaction to Unicron moving around.
			::::Even if you don't agree with my interpretation of how Unicron was operating (which I admit requires him to be ignoring standard physics), the storms were clearly freak occurrences that did not have the normal telegraphs--so it's unlikely that they were anything more than superficial, and there was clearly some influence from Unicron on keeping them going. Even if that's merely maintaining a temperature differential in the immediate locale of the tornado, or moving a wave of water, it's unlikely that he was controlling the conditions all the way to their normal genesis; for example, the entire heft of the ocean was not behind the tsunami. The implication is clearly that he was generating the tornadoes and the tsunami consciously, or their collapse upon his defeat would not make any sense physically or narratively; so even just on the basis of basic physics, the tornado would evaporate as quickly as a spent tornado would, the sky would clear up as it usually does at the end of a storm, and the tsunami (which was probably just a twenty foot wall of water without the full weight of the ocean behind it) would just fall over, getting the beaches a little wet. I don't think the wave falling over and the tornado evaporating should really be considered a technical error.
			::::Also, I'm not edit warring, and I've not criticized either of you at all. Please don't attack me.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)
			::::No, I understand the difference, and it's not like I believe this would work in the real world; I just don't think he was actually exerting a force--I think it was basically telekinesis. Or even if he was exerting a force, it doesn't seem like it would be more than the bare minimum to spin the air or move that water. The thing that makes a tsunami so devastating is that it's not ''just'' the twenty foot wall of water, it's that more water is coming, that the ocean is behind it. I mean, if the options are "Unicron is using magic to mock up a tidal wave" or "the writers think that tidal waves fall over as soon as the earthquake stops"...it seems more logical to go with magic. I mean, hell, it seems like it would be more in the tone of the wiki to snark that Unicron can violate basic physics, anyway.[[Special:Contributions/70.34.147.3\|70.34.147.3]] 04:18, 13 November 2011 (EST)

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	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) --[[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 13 November 2011
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	:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Momentum is not something you constantly generate unless you want things to go faster. Things in motion stay in motion unless an external force acts on it (and the natural resistance in those events is not enough to dissipate the disasters that quickly). Please go back to physics class. [[User:Interrobang\|—Interrobang]] 02:50, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::Yes, please learn what momentum is. --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 November 2011 (EST)
	:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)		:::I'd hate to sound like I'm ganging up on you, but what you are thinking about is force. Explanation: Unicron exerted force on the world to create the earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Once Unicron was beaten, he was no longer was exerting force on those things. However, the tidal waves and earthquakes still have momentum, which is a physical property of objects by themselves. The objects suddenly stopping without anything else acting on them would violate the principle of the conservation of momentum. The only way the objects would stop immediately would be if they collided another object with the exact same momentum, only negative (in the opposite direction). Therefore, the tornadoes and tidal waves would continue moving with their momentum without Unicron present. (Yeesh, I like physics too much.) [[User:AutoUIMagnus299\|AutoUIMagnus299]] 03:56, 13 November 2011 (EST)