Talk:Rav (BM) - Revision history

Interrobang: Talk:Rav moved to Talk:Rav (BM)

2011-06-15T11:03:17Z

← Older revision	Revision as of 11:03, 15 June 2011
(No difference)

Deceptitran: /* Deceptitran import fixes v1.0 */

2009-03-23T11:32:24Z

Deceptitran import fixes v1.0

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:32, 23 March 2009
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	:You should know better than that, Neale, but I'll answer for the sake of reinforcing common knowledge:		:You should know better than that, Neale, but I'll answer for the sake of reinforcing common knowledge:
	:a) TF ''does'' have a [[~~Canon\|~~canon]]: It's everything that Hasbro and/or Takara have ever put their stamp of approval on. This means there are a bajillion continuities that are all simultaneously canon. This has even been acknowledged in the fiction, thanks to several dimensional-crossover stories in the past few years.		:a) TF ''does'' have a [[canon]]: It's everything that Hasbro and/or Takara have ever put their stamp of approval on. This means there are a bajillion continuities that are all simultaneously canon. This has even been acknowledged in the fiction, thanks to several dimensional-crossover stories in the past few years.
	:b) "Rav" the blue Deployer is toy-canon. "Chro" the blue Deployer is ''Wreckers''-canon. Since the latter actively disregarded the former, that's the direction of retcon referred to in the article. But all the facts remain on the Wiki; we don't IGNORE blue-Rav or relegate all the information to the Chro article. And it's all still canon, because it all went out with Hasbro's blessing.		:b) "Rav" the blue Deployer is toy-canon. "Chro" the blue Deployer is ''Wreckers''-canon. Since the latter actively disregarded the former, that's the direction of retcon referred to in the article. But all the facts remain on the Wiki; we don't IGNORE blue-Rav or relegate all the information to the Chro article. And it's all still canon, because it all went out with Hasbro's blessing.
	:- [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 20:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		:- [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 20:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
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	::::As for 'all material is equally relevant...' 1) The Multiverse. 2) He-man. The whole backstory with Keldor as his uncle and Skeletor's origin came from a coloring book or something. It was central to the revival cartoon. 3) That attitude encourages crap like the convention comics. The idea that something used to be ''so''' obscure, but look! Now we've dusted it off and told a ''real'' story with it! With bad art, and bad dialog, and bad colors, and Deathcobra acting completely out of character! "But that's not important, the point is he's Japanese! So he's a minja now, and badass, and he mentions in passing that he killed that comedy-relief character you hate! We are awesome now, DADDY WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME?" -<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 15px;">[[User:Derik\|Derik]]</span> 11:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)		::::As for 'all material is equally relevant...' 1) The Multiverse. 2) He-man. The whole backstory with Keldor as his uncle and Skeletor's origin came from a coloring book or something. It was central to the revival cartoon. 3) That attitude encourages crap like the convention comics. The idea that something used to be ''so''' obscure, but look! Now we've dusted it off and told a ''real'' story with it! With bad art, and bad dialog, and bad colors, and Deathcobra acting completely out of character! "But that's not important, the point is he's Japanese! So he's a minja now, and badass, and he mentions in passing that he killed that comedy-relief character you hate! We are awesome now, DADDY WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME?" -<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 15px;">[[User:Derik\|Derik]]</span> 11:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

	The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)~~<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>~~		The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Derik at 11:24, 25 August 2007

2007-08-25T11:24:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:24, 25 August 2007
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	:::Admittedly, I'm not sure if the everything-with-a-Hasbro-stamp-is-canon rule is something... "official." As in, I don't think Hasbro has ever explicitly SAID, "Hey everybody, all the stories ever published are of equal canonical value!" It's just that, in the ''absence'' of any Hasbro-dictated policy, and with a need for SOME notion of canon to at least separate "real" fiction from fanfic... the only rational thing to do is let the Hasbro stamp be the one determining factor. (And this isn't something just made up for the Wiki; I've seen this idea being declared within the online fandom for as long as I've been in it - almost ten years.) - [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 23:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		:::Admittedly, I'm not sure if the everything-with-a-Hasbro-stamp-is-canon rule is something... "official." As in, I don't think Hasbro has ever explicitly SAID, "Hey everybody, all the stories ever published are of equal canonical value!" It's just that, in the ''absence'' of any Hasbro-dictated policy, and with a need for SOME notion of canon to at least separate "real" fiction from fanfic... the only rational thing to do is let the Hasbro stamp be the one determining factor. (And this isn't something just made up for the Wiki; I've seen this idea being declared within the online fandom for as long as I've been in it - almost ten years.) - [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 23:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
			::::Indeed, Hasbro has ''not'' told this. They've actually told fans to "please ignore" the [[Go-Bots (toyline)\|Go-Bots]] because they weren't part of Transformers. (That would be the toyline with Prowl, Mirage and Cheetor in it.)
			::::The collective answer from the fandom was, basically, "no." Transformers has established a multiverse with ''at least'' 75,890,008 separate timelines (and the actual number may in fact be infinite.) In short-- everything published, ever, is out there somewhere in the Transformers multiverse.
			::::We've decided, essentially that anything from or licensed by Hasbro/Takara is real. No fanworks, no ''fannon'' (we do mark possible explanations for oddities it it doesn't seem too speculative) but we're also damn rigid that the canon '''says what it says'''. That means author intent can't override actual events, Dreamwave's constant easter-egging is treated at face value and when you write an article about Mirage, you can't describe his power using tech-jargon from Star Trek you think makes more sense, you '''have''' to use the terminology from the cartoon, ot rtech-spec or something- no matter how lame. We take our Transformers seriously. If you want articles filled with vaguely-worded statements based on how people remember things happening, go to Wikipedia. We actually ''watch episodes'' and re-read comics or books to double-check our sources when we're not sure.
			::::As for 'all material is equally relevant...' 1) The Multiverse. 2) He-man. The whole backstory with Keldor as his uncle and Skeletor's origin came from a coloring book or something. It was central to the revival cartoon. 3) That attitude encourages crap like the convention comics. The idea that something used to be ''so''' obscure, but look! Now we've dusted it off and told a ''real'' story with it! With bad art, and bad dialog, and bad colors, and Deathcobra acting completely out of character! "But that's not important, the point is he's Japanese! So he's a minja now, and badass, and he mentions in passing that he killed that comedy-relief character you hate! We are awesome now, DADDY WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME?" -<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 15px;">[[User:Derik\|Derik]]</span> 11:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

	The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>		The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Jackpot at 23:09, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T23:09:13Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:09, 24 August 2007
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	:::::::I'm disappointed. No 'give him the bird' jokes or anything. Wasn't part of the finale already up at the fan club site? (Which I ''could'' access if they ever fix the bloody thing...) -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 21:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		:::::::I'm disappointed. No 'give him the bird' jokes or anything. Wasn't part of the finale already up at the fan club site? (Which I ''could'' access if they ever fix the bloody thing...) -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 21:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

			:::Admittedly, I'm not sure if the everything-with-a-Hasbro-stamp-is-canon rule is something... "official." As in, I don't think Hasbro has ever explicitly SAID, "Hey everybody, all the stories ever published are of equal canonical value!" It's just that, in the ''absence'' of any Hasbro-dictated policy, and with a need for SOME notion of canon to at least separate "real" fiction from fanfic... the only rational thing to do is let the Hasbro stamp be the one determining factor. (And this isn't something just made up for the Wiki; I've seen this idea being declared within the online fandom for as long as I've been in it - almost ten years.) - [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 23:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

	The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>		The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

M Sipher at 22:18, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T22:18:52Z

New page

Is "canon" really appropriate here, because Transformers has never really had one, and none of the fan club stuff (regardless of which club) will ever trump the mass-released fiction. Maybe there's a better way to phrase it? (And I'm feeling a little too thick at the moment to figure out how, myself.) -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 20:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

: See [[Canon]]. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:You should know better than that, Neale, but I'll answer for the sake of reinforcing common knowledge:
:a) TF ''does'' have a [[Canon|canon]]: It's everything that Hasbro and/or Takara have ever put their stamp of approval on. This means there are a bajillion continuities that are all simultaneously canon. This has even been acknowledged in the fiction, thanks to several dimensional-crossover stories in the past few years.
:b) "Rav" the blue Deployer is toy-canon. "Chro" the blue Deployer is ''Wreckers''-canon. Since the latter actively disregarded the former, that's the direction of retcon referred to in the article. But all the facts remain on the Wiki; we don't IGNORE blue-Rav or relegate all the information to the Chro article. And it's all still canon, because it all went out with Hasbro's blessing.
:- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, I ''didn't'' know that that was the official policy. Since I deal with several major IPs out there, 'canon' is a very muddled mess for me, particularly when doing some fan-oriented gaming work for both Star Trek and Star Wars.

::I admit, ''Everything is canon because nothing is canon'' is a unique perspective, but I suppose if Transformers ''must'' have a canon, then that's the way to go. Otherwise, we would all hate each other or something...

::As for Chro, I'm not really sure that being Cryotek's pet actually ''warrants'' much more than a side-note for Rav's entry, but I know a lot of you guys are much larger fans of the Wreckers Universe than I am. If there is more to say than he's just the repaint sidekick, then go for it. -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 21:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:::His very ''existence'' as a separate character from Rav means he should have his own entry, ''especially'' since both Rav and Chro appear in the Wreckers books as such. As soon as you start trying to argue "relevance", then it's a slippery slope... one could argue quite effectively that G1 Thundercracker doesn't do enough in TF fiction to be more than an addition to G1 Starscream's page if we're talking fictional relevance... and then there's allllllllllll the toy-characters who never got fiction... all the hi-then-die named characters... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Fair enough. I don't know anything about the later parts of the 3H story, so I didn't know how much he appeared. I wasn't trying to belittle the existence of the character, it's just that the only thing I ever saw was his art with Cryotek. Unfortunately, since I've got nothin' on Chro himself, someone else will need to stab at the article. -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 21:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::Maybe they'll kill him! Oh yeah. I went there. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Well, he IS a villain character, and this IS the finale... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::::I'm disappointed. No 'give him the bird' jokes or anything. Wasn't part of the finale already up at the fan club site? (Which I ''could'' access if they ever fix the bloody thing...) -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 21:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The four pages Guido penciled were inked and colored and be-dialogued and published in the magazine. The rest --text story, not comic-- isn't up yet. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

M Sipher at 21:51, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T21:51:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 24 August 2007
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	:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
	::::::Maybe they'll kill him! Oh yeah. I went there. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>		::::::Maybe they'll kill him! Oh yeah. I went there. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
			:::::::Well, he IS a villain character, and this IS the finale... --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 21:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Thylacine 2000 at 21:50, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T21:50:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:50, 24 August 2007
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	::::Fair enough. I don't know anything about the later parts of the 3H story, so I didn't know how much he appeared. I wasn't trying to belittle the existence of the character, it's just that the only thing I ever saw was his art with Cryotek. Unfortunately, since I've got nothin' on Chro himself, someone else will need to stab at the article. -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 21:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		::::Fair enough. I don't know anything about the later parts of the 3H story, so I didn't know how much he appeared. I wasn't trying to belittle the existence of the character, it's just that the only thing I ever saw was his art with Cryotek. Unfortunately, since I've got nothin' on Chro himself, someone else will need to stab at the article. -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 21:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

	:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>		:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
			::::::Maybe they'll kill him! Oh yeah. I went there. --[[User:Thylacine 2000\|Thylacine 2000]] 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

M Sipher at 21:43, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T21:43:14Z

New page

Is "canon" really appropriate here, because Transformers has never really had one, and none of the fan club stuff (regardless of which club) will ever trump the mass-released fiction. Maybe there's a better way to phrase it? (And I'm feeling a little too thick at the moment to figure out how, myself.) -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 20:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

: See [[Canon]]. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:You should know better than that, Neale, but I'll answer for the sake of reinforcing common knowledge:
:a) TF ''does'' have a [[Canon|canon]]: It's everything that Hasbro and/or Takara have ever put their stamp of approval on. This means there are a bajillion continuities that are all simultaneously canon. This has even been acknowledged in the fiction, thanks to several dimensional-crossover stories in the past few years.
:b) "Rav" the blue Deployer is toy-canon. "Chro" the blue Deployer is ''Wreckers''-canon. Since the latter actively disregarded the former, that's the direction of retcon referred to in the article. But all the facts remain on the Wiki; we don't IGNORE blue-Rav or relegate all the information to the Chro article. And it's all still canon, because it all went out with Hasbro's blessing.
:- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, I ''didn't'' know that that was the official policy. Since I deal with several major IPs out there, 'canon' is a very muddled mess for me, particularly when doing some fan-oriented gaming work for both Star Trek and Star Wars.

::I admit, ''Everything is canon because nothing is canon'' is a unique perspective, but I suppose if Transformers ''must'' have a canon, then that's the way to go. Otherwise, we would all hate each other or something...

::As for Chro, I'm not really sure that being Cryotek's pet actually ''warrants'' much more than a side-note for Rav's entry, but I know a lot of you guys are much larger fans of the Wreckers Universe than I am. If there is more to say than he's just the repaint sidekick, then go for it. -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 21:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:::His very ''existence'' as a separate character from Rav means he should have his own entry, ''especially'' since both Rav and Chro appear in the Wreckers books as such. As soon as you start trying to argue "relevance", then it's a slippery slope... one could argue quite effectively that G1 Thundercracker doesn't do enough in TF fiction to be more than an addition to G1 Starscream's page if we're talking fictional relevance... and then there's allllllllllll the toy-characters who never got fiction... all the hi-then-die named characters... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Fair enough. I don't know anything about the later parts of the 3H story, so I didn't know how much he appeared. I wasn't trying to belittle the existence of the character, it's just that the only thing I ever saw was his art with Cryotek. Unfortunately, since I've got nothin' on Chro himself, someone else will need to stab at the article. -[[User:TFVanguard|TFVanguard]] 21:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::Well, so far, he only pops up in a panel or two. But since there's an upcoming Hasbro-approved Wreckers conclusion coming... "soon"... through FP, there's certainly a ''chance'' for Chro to do more than exist. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

M Sipher at 21:31, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T21:31:58Z

New page

Jackpot at 20:43, 24 August 2007

2007-08-24T20:43:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:43, 24 August 2007
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	Is "canon" really appropriate here, because Transformers has never really had one, and none of the fan club stuff (regardless of which club) will ever trump the mass-released fiction. Maybe there's a better way to phrase it? (And I'm feeling a little too thick at the moment to figure out how, myself.) -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 20:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)		Is "canon" really appropriate here, because Transformers has never really had one, and none of the fan club stuff (regardless of which club) will ever trump the mass-released fiction. Maybe there's a better way to phrase it? (And I'm feeling a little too thick at the moment to figure out how, myself.) -[[User:TFVanguard\|TFVanguard]] 20:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

	: See [[Canon]]. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 20:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>		: See [[Canon]]. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] 20:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

			:You should know better than that, Neale, but I'll answer for the sake of reinforcing common knowledge:
			:a) TF ''does'' have a [[Canon\|canon]]: It's everything that Hasbro and/or Takara have ever put their stamp of approval on. This means there are a bajillion continuities that are all simultaneously canon. This has even been acknowledged in the fiction, thanks to several dimensional-crossover stories in the past few years.
			:b) "Rav" the blue Deployer is toy-canon. "Chro" the blue Deployer is ''Wreckers''-canon. Since the latter actively disregarded the former, that's the direction of retcon referred to in the article. But all the facts remain on the Wiki; we don't IGNORE blue-Rav or relegate all the information to the Chro article. And it's all still canon, because it all went out with Hasbro's blessing.
			:- [[User:Jackpot\|Jackpot]] 20:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>