Talk:Sideways (disambiguation) - Revision history

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-13T18:04:09Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:04, 13 October 2022
Line 29:		Line 29:
	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and who did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

	Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.		Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-13T15:08:20Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:08, 13 October 2022
Line 29:		Line 29:
	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The ~~only characters~~ who ~~came~~ through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

	Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.		Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */ Forgot to include this bit of research

2022-10-12T23:30:37Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot: Forgot to include this bit of research

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:30, 12 October 2022
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	I looked into as much of the Takara RobotMasters website as the Internet Archive had, well, archived. To my delight, it had [http://web.archive.org/web//http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/ a whole lot!] But since Double Face's toy page was a bust, I looked into each of [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html the other toys' pages]. Using a Flash emulator, I was able to see what the surviving .swf files on each page looked like. I even discovered that each of these pages has hidden text descriptions for each toy found below the Flash file on each page. And what did I find after combing through all of these toy pages and then the entirety of this site's archived content? Well, there was '''''zero sign''''' of any "character first appeared" notices that were mentioned in Derik's original claim. Each Flash file contained the toys' name, tech specs, bio (the same as their on-package bios), and interactive buttons that showed the toys' different modes and weapon gimmicks. To the right of the Flash file was an illustration of the toy's box art, and to the left of that below the Flash file was a smaller image (now defunct) that linked each page back to the [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html Lineup page]. To the left of this smaller image was each of the hidden text descriptions, all of which primarily described the toys as toys, not as characters. The only descriptions that made any mention of what series the characters originated from were those for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040804061423/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm11.html Beast Convoy], [http://web.archive.org/web/20050318073807/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm22.html Lio Convoy], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051128215047/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rmed.html Skywarp & Thundercracker]. The descriptions for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050221/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm13.html Smokesniper] and [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050238/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm14.html Gigant Bomb] did mention that their toys were from G2, but not the two of them as characters. And the ones for [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085055/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm15.html Star Saber], [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117083855/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm16.html Victory Leo], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117084812/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm17.html Victory Saber] mentioned that they hail from a place called [[Victory (planet)\|Planet Victory]], but nothing more, fiction-wise.		I looked into as much of the Takara RobotMasters website as the Internet Archive had, well, archived. To my delight, it had [http://web.archive.org/web//http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/ a whole lot!] But since Double Face's toy page was a bust, I looked into each of [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html the other toys' pages]. Using a Flash emulator, I was able to see what the surviving .swf files on each page looked like. I even discovered that each of these pages has hidden text descriptions for each toy found below the Flash file on each page. And what did I find after combing through all of these toy pages and then the entirety of this site's archived content? Well, there was '''''zero sign''''' of any "character first appeared" notices that were mentioned in Derik's original claim. Each Flash file contained the toys' name, tech specs, bio (the same as their on-package bios), and interactive buttons that showed the toys' different modes and weapon gimmicks. To the right of the Flash file was an illustration of the toy's box art, and to the left of that below the Flash file was a smaller image (now defunct) that linked each page back to the [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html Lineup page]. To the left of this smaller image was each of the hidden text descriptions, all of which primarily described the toys as toys, not as characters. The only descriptions that made any mention of what series the characters originated from were those for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040804061423/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm11.html Beast Convoy], [http://web.archive.org/web/20050318073807/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm22.html Lio Convoy], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051128215047/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rmed.html Skywarp & Thundercracker]. The descriptions for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050221/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm13.html Smokesniper] and [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050238/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm14.html Gigant Bomb] did mention that their toys were from G2, but not the two of them as characters. And the ones for [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085055/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm15.html Star Saber], [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117083855/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm16.html Victory Leo], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117084812/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm17.html Victory Saber] mentioned that they hail from a place called [[Victory (planet)\|Planet Victory]], but nothing more, fiction-wise.

	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The only characters who came through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The only characters who came through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

Saix: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-12T20:19:34Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:19, 12 October 2022
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	::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.		::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.
	::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being an interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

The Wadapan at 20:04, 12 October 2022

2022-10-12T20:04:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:04, 12 October 2022
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	::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

Saix: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-12T19:32:00Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:32, 12 October 2022
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	::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.		::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.
	::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-12T19:07:56Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:07, 12 October 2022
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	::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in September 2002. Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in September 2002. Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	:::Oh huh! That said, given my overall impression of ''Armada'' development, I'd bet surely all that stuff originated with Armada, with it just being development-lead-time happenstance that caused the ''Armada'' one to come out a few months later. Either way, they're basically contemporaneous—I still feel like the question of whether they're literally the same guy or just counterparts is probably too wiki-brained a question in the first place, but this does put it in a different light for me, thank you. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 13:21, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:::Oh huh! That said, given my overall impression of ''Armada'' development, I'd bet surely all that stuff originated with Armada, with it just being development-lead-time happenstance that caused the ''Armada'' one to come out a few months later. Either way, they're basically contemporaneous—I still feel like the question of whether they're literally the same guy or just counterparts is probably too wiki-brained a question in the first place, but this does put it in a different light for me, thank you. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 13:21, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.
			::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

The Wadapan at 17:21, 12 October 2022

2022-10-12T17:21:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:21, 12 October 2022
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	:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in September 2002. Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in September 2002. Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			:::Oh huh! That said, given my overall impression of ''Armada'' development, I'd bet surely all that stuff originated with Armada, with it just being development-lead-time happenstance that caused the ''Armada'' one to come out a few months later. Either way, they're basically contemporaneous—I still feel like the question of whether they're literally the same guy or just counterparts is probably too wiki-brained a question in the first place, but this does put it in a different light for me, thank you. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 13:21, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-12T16:20:58Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:20, 12 October 2022
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	::::In any case, even in light of all this, if we were really going to re-litigate this I'd still argue (I won't because I'm tired of getting into the same friggin roundabout circle every time) for merging Sideways because official media has merged them. "Secondary authors" is a meaningless thing to me because half the retcons in Transformers are done by secondary authors, even if in this particular case it's the result of confusion and misinformed ideas. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 09:48, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::In any case, even in light of all this, if we were really going to re-litigate this I'd still argue (I won't because I'm tired of getting into the same friggin roundabout circle every time) for merging Sideways because official media has merged them. "Secondary authors" is a meaningless thing to me because half the retcons in Transformers are done by secondary authors, even if in this particular case it's the result of confusion and misinformed ideas. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 09:48, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in 2002. ~~If anything,~~ Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in September 2002. Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

Sabrblade: /* Disentangling this Gordian Knot */

2022-10-12T16:19:06Z

Disentangling this Gordian Knot

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:19, 12 October 2022
Line 46:		Line 46:
	::::In any case, even in light of all this, if we were really going to re-litigate this I'd still argue (I won't because I'm tired of getting into the same friggin roundabout circle every time) for merging Sideways because official media has merged them. "Secondary authors" is a meaningless thing to me because half the retcons in Transformers are done by secondary authors, even if in this particular case it's the result of confusion and misinformed ideas. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 09:48, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::In any case, even in light of all this, if we were really going to re-litigate this I'd still argue (I won't because I'm tired of getting into the same friggin roundabout circle every time) for merging Sideways because official media has merged them. "Secondary authors" is a meaningless thing to me because half the retcons in Transformers are done by secondary authors, even if in this particular case it's the result of confusion and misinformed ideas. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 09:48, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:Sounds like a big addition to [[circular reporting]] to me. Plus, as has been said, the genie's out of the bottle. [[User:BattleBlade\|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade\|talk]]) 09:25, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			::Eh, Wads? Robots in Disguise Sideways was the first Sideways. That toy was released in April 2002, five months before Armada Sideways released in 2002. If anything, Armada Sideways's toy bio recycled text from RID Sideways's toy bio. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 12:19, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:04, 13 October 2022
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	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and who did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

	Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.		Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:08, 13 October 2022
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	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The ~~only characters~~ who ~~came~~ through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The RobotMasters fiction specified who did and did not come through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth, and the only ones who did were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just a native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

	Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.		Even if it had been true that the RobotMasters toy and the RID toy were the same character in Takara's eyes, that still would have only applied for the JG1/Car Robots/RobotMasters side of things. There was still no direct connection to make the Japanese Armada character the same guy. Sure, the RobotMasters toy bio referenced the Japanese names of Armada Sideways's Mini-Cons, "[[Crosswise (Armada)\|Shadow]]" and "[[Rook (Armada)\|Bright]]", but there was nothing more explicit than that, which feels more like an Easter egg kind of reference. While there was the "mysteriousness" alluded to his toy bio and story text, with nearly ''two decades'' of hindsight now behind us, it becomes clear that that mysteriousness was all surface-level; nothing ever came out of it. Tsushima may have hinted at the possibility of there being more to him, but he didn't ''DO'' anything with it. In the long run, Double Face's mysteriousness wound up having all the substance of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eG_XUU7OA&t=874s Mysterior]. No traces of any Unicronian-affiliation, no signs of any otherworldliness, no indication of Double Face being anything more than just a 21st-century JG1 native.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:30, 12 October 2022
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	I looked into as much of the Takara RobotMasters website as the Internet Archive had, well, archived. To my delight, it had [http://web.archive.org/web//http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/ a whole lot!] But since Double Face's toy page was a bust, I looked into each of [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html the other toys' pages]. Using a Flash emulator, I was able to see what the surviving .swf files on each page looked like. I even discovered that each of these pages has hidden text descriptions for each toy found below the Flash file on each page. And what did I find after combing through all of these toy pages and then the entirety of this site's archived content? Well, there was '''''zero sign''''' of any "character first appeared" notices that were mentioned in Derik's original claim. Each Flash file contained the toys' name, tech specs, bio (the same as their on-package bios), and interactive buttons that showed the toys' different modes and weapon gimmicks. To the right of the Flash file was an illustration of the toy's box art, and to the left of that below the Flash file was a smaller image (now defunct) that linked each page back to the [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html Lineup page]. To the left of this smaller image was each of the hidden text descriptions, all of which primarily described the toys as toys, not as characters. The only descriptions that made any mention of what series the characters originated from were those for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040804061423/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm11.html Beast Convoy], [http://web.archive.org/web/20050318073807/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm22.html Lio Convoy], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051128215047/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rmed.html Skywarp & Thundercracker]. The descriptions for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050221/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm13.html Smokesniper] and [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050238/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm14.html Gigant Bomb] did mention that their toys were from G2, but not the two of them as characters. And the ones for [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085055/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm15.html Star Saber], [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117083855/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm16.html Victory Leo], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117084812/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm17.html Victory Saber] mentioned that they hail from a place called [[Victory (planet)\|Planet Victory]], but nothing more, fiction-wise.		I looked into as much of the Takara RobotMasters website as the Internet Archive had, well, archived. To my delight, it had [http://web.archive.org/web//http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/ a whole lot!] But since Double Face's toy page was a bust, I looked into each of [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html the other toys' pages]. Using a Flash emulator, I was able to see what the surviving .swf files on each page looked like. I even discovered that each of these pages has hidden text descriptions for each toy found below the Flash file on each page. And what did I find after combing through all of these toy pages and then the entirety of this site's archived content? Well, there was '''''zero sign''''' of any "character first appeared" notices that were mentioned in Derik's original claim. Each Flash file contained the toys' name, tech specs, bio (the same as their on-package bios), and interactive buttons that showed the toys' different modes and weapon gimmicks. To the right of the Flash file was an illustration of the toy's box art, and to the left of that below the Flash file was a smaller image (now defunct) that linked each page back to the [http://web.archive.org/web/20050831185314/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/line_up.html Lineup page]. To the left of this smaller image was each of the hidden text descriptions, all of which primarily described the toys as toys, not as characters. The only descriptions that made any mention of what series the characters originated from were those for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040804061423/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm11.html Beast Convoy], [http://web.archive.org/web/20050318073807/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm22.html Lio Convoy], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051128215047/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rmed.html Skywarp & Thundercracker]. The descriptions for [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050221/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm13.html Smokesniper] and [http://web.archive.org/web/20040907050238/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm14.html Gigant Bomb] did mention that their toys were from G2, but not the two of them as characters. And the ones for [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085055/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm15.html Star Saber], [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117083855/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm16.html Victory Leo], and [http://web.archive.org/web/20041117084812/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm17.html Victory Saber] mentioned that they hail from a place called [[Victory (planet)\|Planet Victory]], but nothing more, fiction-wise.

	And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways.		And what did the text description on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230165333/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp/robotmasters/item/rm19.html Double Face's page] say? The exact same thing that was also written on [http://web.archive.org/web/20041230164615/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/item/rm18.html Road Rocket's page]: " Transforms from robot to sportbike! The first in the Robot Masters series with a built-in flash gimmick!! Press the button and the weapon will light up!! Suggested retail price: ¥1,029 (tax included)" (translation courtesy of [https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AB%E5%A4%89%E5%BD%A2%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%AD%E3%83%9C%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E5%88%9D%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AE%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%92%E5%86%85%E8%87%93%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%20%20%20%20%E3%83%9C%E3%82%BF%E3%83%B3%E3%82%92%E6%8A%BC%E3%81%9B%E3%81%B0%E3%80%81%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%8C%E7%99%BA%E5%85%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%9E%EF%BC%81%EF%BC%81%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%0A%E3%80%80%E3%80%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E5%B8%8C%E6%9C%9B%E5%B0%8F%E5%A3%B2%E4%BE%A1%E6%A0%BC%EF%BF%A5%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%8C%EF%BC%90%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%99%E5%86%86(%E7%A8%8E%E8%BE%BC)%0A%0A DeepL]). Nothing about him personally. For that, we have to look directly at his toy bio, his on-package story text (both of which were translated by Hydra [https://groups.google.com/g/alt.toys.transformers/c/bV9TC16NIho/m/I4lbYJ8xXoQJ back in the day]), and his appearances in RobotMasters fiction. His bio notes that he is quiet, sinister, and handles negociations, with his motto noting he likes to mess with people. The story text (the same also found on Road Rocket's packaging) basically summarizes the events of the [[Defend the Solitarium!\|seventh online comic]], which shows that he is also treacherous and mysterious. But you know what is missing from all of this? ''Anything'' to support Derik's original claim that RobotMasters Double Face was the same person as RID'01 Sideways. The one and only piece of RobotMasters material in which I could even ''find'' a mention of the phrase カーロボット (''Kārobotto'', "Car Robots") was the [[The Complete Transformers Encyclopedia: All About Robotmasters\|encyclopedia]], but only in reference to the [[Autobot Cars]] subgroup rather than the 2000 cartoon series.

	I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The only characters who came through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.		I immediately rescinded my proposal to merge the two articles, and realized the aforementioned truth about Sideways/Double Face: His RobotMasters version was ''never'' a dimension-hopper. Meaning, prior to the creation of the Animated character, '''Sideways was never a dimension-hopper!''' The belief that he was stemmed not just from the belief that the RID'01, Armada, and RobotMasters dudes were all the same guy, but also from an early impression that RobotMasters itself was a multiversal event similar to the [[Universe War]]. But, a closer inspection of the RobotMasters fiction and [http://web.archive.org/web/20051025091244if_/http://www.takaratoys.co.jp:80/robotmasters/images/soukan.jpg this relation chart] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20070314055941if_/http://www.allspark.com:80/content/stories/tfpulp/Robot%20Masters%20Chart/RMrelations.jpg English translation by Hydra]), there was only time travel in RobotMasters, no dimensional travel (save for the sole anomalous instance of Galaxy Convoy inexplicably showing up in the [[Robotmasters Vol. 11\|final 3D diorama comic]], in promotion of his Hybrid Style toy, but which lacked any explanation and had no sign of the Blastizone in its events). The only characters who came through the Blastizone to 2004 Earth were Beast Convoy, Beast Megatron, Psycho-Orb, Star Saber, Victory Leo, Gigant Bomb (and Smokesniper?), and Lio Convoy. Characters like Wrecker Hook and Double Face had nothing to indicate that they were dimension-hoppers (the former of which was suspected to be due to this having been back before Takara cleared up the whole Car Robots mess). By all appearances, Double Face was just native to the world of RobotMasters, and JG1 as a whole.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:19, 12 October 2022
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	::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.		::::And, let's not kid ourselves, here. The only reason Walky wrote "Crankshafts" with a universe-hopping Sideways in mind is because Derik led him to believe that was the case all the way back when the original Sideways article was first being put together back in 2006, as seen on the [[Talk:Sideways (Armada)#RID Sideways = Armada Sideways\|talk page]]. This is one of those things that goes all the way back to the pre-Wiki days, but this time we can actually pin down where the misinformation first began.
	::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being an interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:04, 12 October 2022
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	::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		::::As for Galaxy Convoy showing up in the final 3D diorama comic, that random appearance of his was just to give a shout-out to the Hybrid Style toy, a toy that wasn't even a part of the RobotMasters line, and only at the very end when the series was over. He's just there with no explanation. The 3D diorama comic doesn't even have a proper resolution, it's just "Toys fight each other, the good guys beat up the bad guys with help from a special new toy, The End." And it was arguably considered a lesser RobotMasters fiction, since the online and pack-in comics were largely treated by Takara as ''the'' main RobotMasters fiction that they wanted people to pay attention to, what with the toyline specifically advertising the web comics in its on-package story texts and toy catalogs. --[[User:Sabrblade\|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade\|talk]]) 15:07, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
	Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)		Fundamentally, I would just merge Animated Sideways into Armada Sideways, since that incarnation was clearly written with the intention of being a interuniversal traveller. The rest stay where they are now and the prose here needs to be rewritten (preferably not into an even longer essay). [[User:Saix\|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix\|talk]]) 15:32, 12 October 2022 (EDT)
			:Yyyeah, don't really care for that idea, writing-wise he's as much ''Revenge of the Fallen'' Sideways as anything. And, like, what makes Sorenson's writing for that any more or less valid than his writing for the Facebook stuff? Anyway, I will have a go at rewriting the conceptual history section. —[[User:The Wadapan\|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan\|talk]]) 16:04, 12 October 2022 (EDT)