Talk:Soundwave (disambiguation) - Revision history

Saix at 01:28, 8 February 2016

2016-02-08T01:28:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:28, 8 February 2016
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	::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / Dropshot (Universe), even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Xaaron: /* Clones! */

2014-04-11T12:38:45Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:38, 11 April 2014
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	:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			:Well, I still disagree, but I can't think of any new arguments. So the current 1995 entry on the disambig list should be removed, right? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:38, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

KilMichaelMcC: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T15:48:59Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:48, 9 April 2014
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	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Khajidha: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T12:30:37Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:30, 9 April 2014
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	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Xaaron: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T12:23:48Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:23, 9 April 2014
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	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Khajidha: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T11:04:46Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:04, 9 April 2014
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	:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Khajidha: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T11:03:54Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:03, 9 April 2014
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	:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
			:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Xaaron: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T02:47:25Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:47, 9 April 2014
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	::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
			::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

Escargon: /* Clones! */

2014-04-09T01:44:00Z

Clones!

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:44, 9 April 2014
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	:I vote the latter. The dates should indicate when the character came into being. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 13:37, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:I vote the latter. The dates should indicate when the character came into being. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 13:37, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
			:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

ItsWalky at 01:33, 9 April 2014

2014-04-09T01:33:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:33, 9 April 2014
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	So the question is: Should the disambig list toys of the same name as an existing character under the date the toy was originally released (1994, 1997), or by the date they were confirmed as a separate character (2012, 2013)? I vote the former. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 13:09, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		So the question is: Should the disambig list toys of the same name as an existing character under the date the toy was originally released (1994, 1997), or by the date they were confirmed as a separate character (2012, 2013)? I vote the former. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 13:09, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:I vote the latter. The dates should indicate when the character came into being. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 13:37, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:I vote the latter. The dates should indicate when the character came into being. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 13:37, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
			::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:28, 8 February 2016
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	::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --[[User:ItsWalky\|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky\|talk]]) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		:::That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. [[User:Escargon\|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon\|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / Dropshot (Universe), even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

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	:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			:Well, I still disagree, but I can't think of any new arguments. So the current 1995 entry on the disambig list should be removed, right? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:38, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

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	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC\|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC\|talk]]) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

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	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
	::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			:::::::The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:23, 9 April 2014
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	::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)		::::Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different ''toy franchises'', not continuity families. So we have [[Dropshot (G1)]] / [[Dropshot (Universe)]], even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their ''toy'', which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
	:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)		:::::I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --[[User:Khajidha\|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha\|talk]]) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
			::::::Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig ''list'' be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --[[User:Xaaron\|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)