Talk:Vanquish - Revision history

Cyberlink420 at 22:49, 4 November 2021

2021-11-04T22:49:52Z

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	==IDW discontinuity==		==IDW discontinuity==
	Does it make sense to split Vanquish's IDW appearances between this page and [[Vanquish (ROC)]]? This page for all the Decepticon stuff with Gigatron and the Autobot page for the Windblade vision? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 05:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		Does it make sense to split Vanquish's IDW appearances between this page and [[Vanquish\|Vanquish (ROC)]]? This page for all the Decepticon stuff with Gigatron and the Autobot page for the Windblade vision? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 05:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:Yes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 06:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:Yes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 06:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::I don't like when we make up stuff like this. The colonist version from Windblade wouldn't actually BE an Autobot - no factions on the colony worlds. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:04, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::I don't like when we make up stuff like this. The colonist version from Windblade wouldn't actually BE an Autobot - no factions on the colony worlds. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:04, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Cyberlink420: Cyberlink420 moved page Talk:Vanquish (G1) to Talk:Vanquish: There's only one now.

2021-11-04T21:02:22Z

Cyberlink420 moved page Talk:Vanquish (G1) to Talk:Vanquish: There's only one now.

← Older revision	Revision as of 21:02, 4 November 2021
(No difference)

Chris McFeely at 16:36, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T16:36:07Z

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	:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::::Just to clarify, while I still don't like making stuff up, certainly putting the colonist Vanquish on the Japanese Autobot's page is preferable to creating a separate article or resigning his existence to the Notes section of some article. I do have to have SOME faith that Barber or Scott might fix this, we do know they'll be visiting colony worlds in Windblade soon. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 12:36, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

M Sipher at 14:49, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T14:49:46Z

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	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Chris McFeely: /* IDW discontinuity */

2015-05-03T12:47:58Z

IDW discontinuity

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	:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Emvee at 11:51, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T11:51:39Z

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	::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...		::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...
	::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

SanityOrMadness at 11:41, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T11:41:34Z

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	::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::So are you going to go round removing "[[Firster Aid]]" and so forth too?		::::::So are you going to go round removing "[[Firster Aid]]" and so forth too? (Not to mention a few hundred pages from the Kre-O webmanga...)
	::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...		::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...
	::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Emvee at 11:39, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T11:39:02Z

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	::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

SanityOrMadness at 11:24, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T11:24:45Z

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	::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			::::::So are you going to go round removing "[[Firster Aid]]" and so forth too?
			::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...
			::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Chris McFeely at 11:19, 3 May 2015

2015-05-03T11:19:04Z

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	::::And it's the same thing as the [[Tailwind (G1)\|Tailwind]]/[[Windrim]] thing, surely, since the two can't be the same character. The Gorlamites didn't have factions either (frankly, I still think we should treat the Gorlamites as nameless, with perhaps "A Gorlam Prime inhabitant resembled..."-type note as a note at the absolute most). And, hell, what about all the {{tl\|factions}} bits that apply only to one micro-continiuity, like [[Nova Prime]] having Autobot and Decepticon sigils because of TF Legends?		::::And it's the same thing as the [[Tailwind (G1)\|Tailwind]]/[[Windrim]] thing, surely, since the two can't be the same character. The Gorlamites didn't have factions either (frankly, I still think we should treat the Gorlamites as nameless, with perhaps "A Gorlam Prime inhabitant resembled..."-type note as a note at the absolute most). And, hell, what about all the {{tl\|factions}} bits that apply only to one micro-continiuity, like [[Nova Prime]] having Autobot and Decepticon sigils because of TF Legends?
	::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

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	:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::::Just to clarify, while I still don't like making stuff up, certainly putting the colonist Vanquish on the Japanese Autobot's page is preferable to creating a separate article or resigning his existence to the Notes section of some article. I do have to have SOME faith that Barber or Scott might fix this, we do know they'll be visiting colony worlds in Windblade soon. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 12:36, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

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	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			::::::::I'm throwing my vote in with McFeely. YET AGAIN, the wiki seems to be getting more up its own ass and going convoluted to the point of making up "canon" explanations via "new character" pages that we don't NEED, making information harder to find and jsut generally bloating the whole place up. --[[User:M Sipher\|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher\|talk]]) 10:49, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

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	:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::Well I wouldn't remove Firster Aid because he was an actual in-the-story correction by the creative team, who saved the headache by giving him different colours. Bluster was a cock-up by the artists that Furman made up a joke answer for, and Windrim/Tailwind is the wiki purely making something up to explain it (I'm not sure what the Kre-O issues are, it's a funny little world already). I'm okay with listing someone like Straxus in the way that Emvee describes - I can say that for "Custom Made Now", I personally didn't list them because they weren't called for by the script (Straxus was), and taking them at face value would mean creating a dozen new one-line articles for G1 versions of the characters when they're just easter eggs by the artist, but I DID list the crowd-cameos who already existed within the IDW G1 timeline (Hot Shot, Bulkhead). On removing Vanquish, again, the problem is that he's specifically called for by the script - the whole ''point'' of that scene is that it's showing us a colony world whose defining feature is that it's home to Micromaster combiners. Shane McCarthy fucked that up, and it would annoy me that the original introduction, which is the one with the actual far-reaching implications for future for future continuity, is the one that has to be "discounted" because McCarthy didn't do his fuckin' homework. In his case I'm more in favour of approach it like Straxus's article (which I changed myself a while back) to say that a "conflicting report" places him wherever. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

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	::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...		::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...
	::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
			:::::::FWIW I think Straxus should be treated like Sunstreaker and Defensor are on "[[Club Con!]]" - listed, with an anchor link to the continuity errors below. --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:51, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

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	::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::Unless you're arguing for <nowiki>[[Vanquish (Titan Colony)]]</nowiki>, of course... - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I didn't like Tailwind/Windrim, either. Call a cock-up a cock-up, don't make up reasons it's not a cock-up. I still hate that "[[Bluster]]" has an article. It's a cock-up. We don't have "Decepticon Sideswipe" or "Autobot Swindle" articles to cover animation errors from G1. We don't have a separate article for the [[Straxus (G1)\|Straxus]] from "Megatron Origin". They're just cock-ups. - [[User:Chris McFeely\|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely\|talk]]) 07:16, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::So are you going to go round removing "[[Firster Aid]]" and so forth too?		::::::So are you going to go round removing "[[Firster Aid]]" and so forth too? (Not to mention a few hundred pages from the Kre-O webmanga...)
	::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...		::::::And aren't you just talking about situations were someone momentarily (or for the duration of a scene, at most) had the wrong sigil, rather than something more seriously continuity-breaking? It isn't as if IDW haven't had character model troubles of their own...
	::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::[Moreover, the Wiki's position on cameos is wildly inconsistent - compare how the continuity-breaking cameos in Megatron Origin were treated - even now, Elita One is ''still'' listed for #3, as is Straxus in #4 - with everyone who's ignored on [[The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue]] "because c'mon, they are just easter egg cameos"] - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		::::::ADDITIONAL (since you edited while I was typing) - if it wasn't obvious from what I said, I think Straxus should be removed from the cast list in MO #4. And if Colony-Vanquish isn't going to be separated from this page in some form, he should be treated as a nameless guy bar a "character who resembles but can't be because..." bit in the notes. - [[User:SanityOrMadness\|SanityOrMadness]] ([[User talk:SanityOrMadness\|talk]]) 07:24, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
	:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)		:::::I think this kind of thing is already implicit with the inclusion of characters like Wilder, Blood and Morsa in official fiction, isn't it? --[[User:Emvee\|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee\|talk]]) 07:39, 3 May 2015 (EDT)