Talk:Primal Program

Isn't this just another name for the Creation Matrix (before it was revealed to be a physical object instead of merely a program)? --Sabrblade 20:59, 11 November 2011 (EST)

It sounds different to me. Maybe it is the very first program that eventually evolved from naturally occurring gears and levers. And the Creation Matrix never became a physical object, it was still a program that was housed within a physical object. - Starfield 21:19, 11 November 2011 (EST)

It's speculative to assume that it's the same thing as the Creation Matrix. They already have "Matrix" interjections, and those are limited to the Autobots. —Interrobang 21:41, 11 November 2011 (EST)

I started reading the Marvel G1 comics for the first time earlier this year. As well as the UK comics. When they first spoke of the Matrix, they referred to it as a legendary life-giving program that gave their race life. The first mention of the "Primal Program" came during a time when the Creation Matrix was a very crucial aspect of the then-current story. With me being freshly exposed to these stories, it just clicked with me that the so important program that everyone was swearing by was the very same program that gave them all life. After all, they swore by the Matrix anyway (even the "Prime Matrix"), so why wouldn't it be the same program? Plus, what with their race having been birthed by the Matrix, that would mean that it would have had to have been around since before the beginning of Cybertronian life, hence being "primal" or "primordial".

And, I never said it "became" a physical object. I said it was later "revealed" (as in "found out") to be a physical object. --Sabrblade 23:10, 11 November 2011 (EST)

That's entirely speculative. Considering the early Marvel Comics described Transformers as having evolved from lesser machines, a "Primary Program" could easily be a reference to their genetic ancestors. Either way, there's no confirmation. --ItsWalky 23:23, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Issue 1's claim of "naturally occurring gears, levers, and pulleys" having given life to the Transformers conflicts with the Creation Matrix, which later issues (even those before it was revealed to be a talisman instead of a mere program) refer to it as having been their race's source of life. It's a retcon.

And, yes, I know there's no explicit confirmation (or at least, one hasn't been found right now if there is one somewhere), but wouldn't a note of it possibly in reference to the Creation Matrix at least warrant a mention? --Sabrblade 23:41, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Considering Jetfire doesn't know what the "Primary Program" is, and he was friggin' BIRTHED by the Creation Matrix, and very importantly so, I am going to assume it's not supposed to be the Creation Matrix. --ItsWalky 23:51, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Did you know of all the terms (and their meanings) that refer to the childbirth process when you were little? If you did, you must have had an impressively early education on the subject. Your assumption that his not knowing the meaning of one term means that is definitely not related to another term is also a speculation. It comes off as sounding to me like that one kid from The sandlot who didn't know that Babe Ruth and the Great Bambinowere the same person. I'd think that a little note at the bottom saying something like "This program may or may not be related to the Creation Matrix, but we really don't know for sure," wouldn't do any harm. --Sabrblade 00:24, 12 November 2011 (EST)

If we were going to retcon the Primary, Primal, or Primordial Program as any other concept, I'd choose Primus or Prima. I feel those seem more synonymous with the idea of a "first entity." Singling out the Creation Matrix ignores the other possibilities. And mentioning EVERY possibility just waters the whole thing down into meaninglessness. I think the page is stronger without trying to attach it to something else. --ItsWalky 00:52, 12 November 2011 (EST)

I can see that, yeah. Good point on the latter. As for the former, however, one thing that may not jive with the Primus or Prima idea is that this program concept predates them both. Though, I can see one or the other having been inspired by them, but then again, that's also speculative. So, I guess it does work best this way. Good show, old chum. --Sabrblade 01:00, 12 November 2011 (EST)

This is moot to mention now, but "Primal Program" interjections were used by Furman, whose idea of the Creation Matrix (likely as early as "Target: 2006") was as a physical object, not a program. —Interrobang 01:42, 12 November 2011 (EST)

From the letters page in UK 146: "'by the primordial program' refers [to] the program encoded in the Creation Matrix, that grants life to new Transformers." [1] --abates 21:33, 30 November 2011 (EST)

Great find! So it kind of is the Creation Matrix. There are two things, the physical object, and the program encoded in the physical object. Sometimes the program is called the "Primal Program" and the physical object is called the "Creation Matrix". Sometimes the program itself is called the "Creation Matrix" (like in early stories and like in Powermaster Prime's profile).

But more importantly, holy crap! Marvel Grimlock knows about the cartoon! And he knows it is fiction, and the Marvel version is how it really happened! Take that, multiverse. - Starfield 22:04, 30 November 2011 (EST)

I think Marvel Grimlock is a tad biased! --abates 22:30, 30 November 2011 (EST)