Talk:Transformers: The Ultimate Pop-Up Universe

Not sure what disambiguation parenthetical to give the guys who show up in this thing first. The franchise seems to be a generic "Transformers." --ItsWalky 03:44, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

All the character designs are from the Binder of Revelation or otherwise Aligned inspired, right? Could we maaaaaaaybe justify (Prime) since, say, Ironhide's Binder design became a Prime toy? Otherwise, (TUPUU)? It's kind of endearingly silly-looking... Jalaguy 04:27, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

"(Pop-Up)", perhaps? --Sabrblade 11:09, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

If you read the page's notes, you'll know that they are probably not all Binder designs, though technically we couldn't know if they are because we've seen like five binder designs total. But Jetfire is just the friggin' Classics toy and Hot Rod is some G1 cartoony thing, so... --ItsWalky 11:17, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

I think (Prime) is fine and saves us headaches. Mimi 11:35, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

Oh huh, hadn't noticed the notes were up. Yeah, in that case, I'd agree with just something along the lines of (Pop-Up). Jalaguy 11:36, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

I don't see what the big confusion is. To Hasbro it's either multiverse or Prime and I doubt they'd make a Pop-Up book for the Multiverse. Of course, people still can't admit that Hasbro doesn't see a difference between Prime, WFC and FOC. --Khajidha 11:56, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

The confusion isn't what continuity it is, dude. The confusion is what the parenthetical is. It's not Prime and it's not WFC or FOC. --ItsWalky 18:07, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

I'd agree with Pop-Up being the best. (Also, I'd like to point out Greatshot appears, since he isn't on the list. I don't have the book yet, so I can't tell when he appears.) Escargon 18:13, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

I agree with the sentiment of using Pop-Up, but probably (Pop) would be the simplest.--Jimsorenson 20:11, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

While simpler, "(Pop)" might be a little too vague. "(Pop-Up)" is both simple and precise. --Sabrblade 20:20, 31 October 2013 (EDT)

Walky, I get that. You just didn't get my point. Hasbro doesn't make a distinction between these three as "franchises" and neither should we. After years of following a model where the franchise changes every year or so, they have moved back to a model more like the original G1 where it is all one thing (okay, two, the "old" stuff and the "new" stuff). Trying to define whether something is Prime, WFC, FOC or some new thing is kind of pointless. To sum up, my point is that all Prime, WFC, FOC, etc things (including this one) should have the same parenthetical.--Khajidha 07:59, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

If we were to do that, an "(Aligned)" parenthetical might be best (since a "(Prime)" one feels like favoritism over the games), but the very idea of that has been vetoed time and again. And, we don't do that for the Unicron Trilogy or Movieverse characters either. --Sabrblade 09:03, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

Right, Sabrblade. Khajidha, we've time and time and time again discussed disambiguating by continuity family and it always gets shot down. I don't see anything in the Pop-Up book that is a compelling reason to reconsider that. (For the record, I kind of agree with you that it's the more elegant solution but since I'm obviously in the minority on this let's not reinvent the wheel.)--Jimsorenson 10:22, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

Petition to move "(Pop-Up)" articles to "(Prime)", because this is a dumb disambig. Saix (talk) 15:49, 20 June 2015 (EDT)

Greatshot

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-comics-discussion/970895-tfw-interviews-matthew-reinhart-author-transformers-ultimate-pop-up-universe.html

So, who's Greatshot misidentified as in the character list, for anyone who has the thing? - SanityOrMadness (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2015 (EST)

What's in the Special Edition The Transformers: The Movie extra page?

I'm assuming it's just an adaptation of a scene from the Transformers cartoon movie, but I'd figure I'd just check to be sure, since adaptations and novelizations of pre-existing media don't usually get additional storylinks on character pages, unless there is some significant divergence in the fiction. And I want to be sure whether or not I need to update a bunch more character pages in light of this book. --Ascendron (talk) 17:31, 3 February 2015 (EST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWP3swO7IFA (Note, for those in doubt, that they're not only G1 toon character models, but that Scourge appears in the book proper with an entirely different vehicle mode). - SanityOrMadness (talk) 19:01, 3 February 2015 (EST)

THAT IS SO COOL. Also, yeah, it's just an abridged write-up of the movie. No need for me to put up more storylinks. --Ascendron (talk) 19:57, 3 February 2015 (EST)

Primax & Uniend character sorting discussion

I think all the characters should be considered (G1) characters because the story is more G1-like in nature than Prime and Ask Vector Prime identified this book as taking place in the locus cluster, so for the "Prime" characters who only really appear in this story, well they aren't really Prime characters, are they? I don't know, have locus is categorized on this wiki is honestly very confusing.Freakertron (talk) 15:37, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Well, we won't be stuffing all the characters here into G1 pages. Vector Prime states that some characters are Uniend guys. Obviously, any character who's design is straight up their design from either one of the Uniend video games or tv shows is going to stay on their {Prime)/(WFC) pages. Let's just go case-by-case. If it's a G1 design, it goes on a G1 page. --Ascendron (talk) 15:47, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

My best guess as to where each character goes:

Primax:

• Starscream
• Inferno
• Silverbolt
• Sky-Lynx
• Tracks
• Sandstorm
• Slingshot
• Fireflight
• Greatshot
• Sunstreaker
• Whirl
• Skydive
• Hoist
• Big Red
• Beachcomber
• Air Raid
• Rumble
• Sharpshot
• Blitzwing
• Scourge
• Quake
• Kickback
• Hardshell
• Bumper
• Skywarp
• Thundercracker
• Omega Supreme
• Metroplex
• Ramjet
• Trypticon
• Perceptor
• Jetfire
• Rodimus
• Astrotrain
• Snare
• Acid Storm
• Runamuck
• Sixshot

Uniend:

• Megatron
• Jazz
• Optimus Prime
• Bumblebee
• Bulkhead
• Arcee
• Sideswipe
• Blaster
• Scrounge
• Warpath
• Wheeljack
• Ultra Magnus
• Defensor
• Ratchet
• Buzzsaw
• Brawl
• Devastator
• Soundwave
• Laserbeak
• Barricade
• Prowl
• Shockwave
• Grimlock
• Slug
• Swoop
• Snarl
• Sludge
• Swindle
• Blast Off
• Onslaught
• Vortex
• Bruticus
• Ironhide
• Powerglide

Primax/Uniend

• Cosmos

Tyran/Primax/Uniend:

• Lugnut

Tyran

• Blackout

If anyone want to put in additional feedback/corrections, I'm open to it. -- Ascendron (talk) 16:20, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

All of the Binder of Revelation designs are Uniend. This includes Bumblebee, Optimus, and Megatron at the very least. --Sabrblade (talk) 16:40, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Ok --Ascendron (talk) 16:51, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Somebody should probably Ask Vector Prime today in the comments about any we're on the fence on. There's a good chance he'll answer. ;) --Jimsorenson (talk) 17:02, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

And anyone feel free to change my list before we implement anything. Like I said, these are my best guesses, not much more. --Ascendron (talk) 17:57, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Poored over my copy. I see Astrotrain and Snare hidden in there too. This book's a fucking labor of love and I'm scared to damage it. Escargon (talk) 19:12, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Am I safe to assume those both go in the Primax column? --Ascendron (talk) 21:41, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

They look just like their toys, so yeah. AVP's updated by the way. Powerglide's Aligned, Runamuck's G1. Skywarp, Acid Storm, and Action Master Thundercracker are G1, Lugnut is Movie/G1/Aligned, and Cosmos is G1/Aligned. Escargon (talk) 21:50, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

I have moved/added Sixshot, Sandstorm, Scourge, Sky Lynx, Inferno, and Greatshot's information to their G1 articles after checking the pictures we have and assessing that they were obviously the Primax guys. Which by the way, Ascendron, you have Inferno listed as Uniend. Is there an Aligned Inferno who I'm missing? I don't see any pre-established Uniend Inferno on the wiki. Meanwhile, what about Sunstreaker? His Pop-Up design looks very G1-esque to me, but I see that Retribution established a Uniend version of the character. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 04:09, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

I had made my list before Vector Prime clarified a whole bunch of stuff, so a lot of my guesses turned out to be outright wrong. Unless either Inferno or Sunstreaker have matching designs in the binder of revelation, I think it's likely they're both the G1 versions of the characters. --Ascendron (talk) 08:58, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

I'm the one responsible for the latest version of this list (as of this edit). I put Inferno and Sunstreaker in Uniend because both of them were drawn in the same style as all the Binder designs (which are definitely Uniend), rather than just being straight up drawing of a G1 toy design or a photo of a G1 toy. I explain more in my longer "01:39, 1 October 2015 (EDT)" post below. --Sabrblade (talk) 14:18, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

Is anyone else confused? how are G1 guys fighting prime guys? Transfan 1992 (talk) 21:46, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

The book is said to be in an "Iocus" universe, which is shorthand for any Universe where the inhabitants are a mix-and-match of characters from a variety of universal streams. --Ascendron (talk) 22:22, 29 September 2015 (EDT)

Is Starscream's design from the binder of revelation as well? --Ascendron (talk) 02:32, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

It's rendered in a style similar to the Binder designs, so I'm going to guess that it might be. I've edited the list above with my best guesses after whipping out my copy and combing it from front to back, inside and out. Some of the Uniend ones I've added to the list are based on the same premise that I used for Starscream's case, being that they are drawn similarly to the style of the Binder designs as opposed to just being either a straight drawing of a toy design or a photo of a toy. And other cases are instead based on the character descriptions mentioned in the book's text that refer specifically to the Uniend version of the characters. And to make things easier for anyone who'd like to double-check these in the book itself, I've included page numbers to help one find them in the book. --Sabrblade (talk) 01:39, 1 October 2015 (EDT)

This is probably a separate conversation that's already been discussed but, I don't see why we can't give all the locus characters there own pages. I mean it seems to make more sense to stick all the random action figures of Optimus Prime from Battle Mashers, pop up universe, etc. On one page rather than to put locus stuff all over the place. isn't locus supposed to encase whatever generic toylines and storys the brand has on the future? Freakertron (talk) 23:36, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

I say generic for lack of a better word. Freakertron (talk) 23:38, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

That was briefly what we were doing, but it was scrapped once it became clear that doing that would mean, for instance, removing Attacktix from G1 and UT character pages, which would just be silly. Now they just go on the version (or sometimes versions) of the character they're most heavily based on, which is ultimately going to be more helpful to the average user. Jalaguy (talk) 05:59, 1 October 2015 (EDT)

Revisiting

I've restored the above list that Ascendron wrote back to being the last version of how it was before I altered it, so as to let people see his guesses and to create my own separate list, which I will provide below.

However, upon looking over my guesses from before, I found something that threw several of my guesses out of whack: The Special Edition extra page. This video shows a good look at the extra page and all the characters depicted on it, and boy is it a doozy! At first glance, it's an obvious homage to the 1986 G1 movie, right down to the textual description of the movie's climax, which would automatically make everyone in it be Primax, right? Well, one would think so, if not for all the characters (save for the Exosuited Witwicky) being depicted in designs that look more like Binder of Revelation designs, which would make them all Uniend. Unicron even has his Prime version's head, and Galvatron indisputably has Prime Megatron's legs. Springer even looks to be based on his GDO toy, which was the 2010 Tomahawk mold (a Movieverse mold).

This all brings me back to something that was bugging me when I had made my previous guesses, in that several of the characters inside the book look to be drawn like their G1 designs but rendered in a style similar to the Binder designs. The Skywarp and Thundercracker on Page 6 are pretty much their G1 designs but given Binder design-esque detailing. Same with the Jetfire, Perceptor, and Rodimus on Page 10; G1-based designs detailed in the Binder design style. What's more is how the book describes all these characters as respectively serving under the Megatron and Optimus depicted next to all of them on the pages, and whom are most definitely the Uniend versions of Megatron and Optimus.

All this leads to just one conclusion, one that has been stated time and again on this Wiki: To the Hasbro team (or at least to the Hasbro team who was in charge at the time this book and the Aligned Continuity were fully in effect), Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime. Hasbro did not care to make the kind of distinctions between continuity family character versions that we fans have made and have put into effect on this Wiki. Thus, what we have here is a book full of some characters drawn in designs that peg them as obvious specific character versions (which makes those easy to categorize) and some characters drawn in designs that are vague enough to not be pegged down so easily as being anything more specific than just generalized versions of the characters.

Fortunately for us, Ask Vector Prime revealed that one design can apply to more than one continuity family version of each character, like how Lugnut's design is Primax, Tyran, and Uniend all in one. Therefore, by applying this multiple-continuity-families method to some of the more vague ones, these are now my newest guesses:

Primax:

• Silverbolt (pg 3) - Universe 2008 toy design
• Sky-Lynx (pg 3) - G1 design
• Tracks (pg 3) - Reveal the Shield toy design
• Sandstorm (pg 3) - virtual redeco of Movie Blackout's vehicle mode, but confirmed via AVP to be G1
• Slingshot (pg 3) - G1 design
• Fireflight (pg 3) - G1 design
• Greatshot (pg 3) - G1 design
• Whirl (pg 3) - G1 toy design
• Skydive (pg 3) - G1 design
• Beachcomber (pg 4) - G1 design
• Air Raid (pg 4) - G1 design
• Skywarp (pg 4) - G1 design and confirmed via AVP
• Forestonite-enhanced Thundercracker (pg 4) - G1 design w/ Action Master colors a la the BotCon SG Thundercracker toy; confirmed via AVP
• Acid Storm (pg 4) - G1 design green Seeker and confirmed via AVP
• Two generic Seekers (pg 4) - G1 design
• Sixshot (pg 4) - G1 design and confirmed via AVP
• Snare (pg 4) - G1 design black seekers
• Astrotrain (pg 4) - G1 toy photo
• A third generic Seeker (pg 4) - G1 design black seeker
• Blitzwing (pg 4) - G1 design
• Scourge (pg 4) - Generations toy design and confirmed via AVP
• Dirge (pg 8) - G1 design
• Runamuck (pg 8) - most resembles the TCC toy design, confirmed via AVP
• Ramjet (pg 8) - G1 design

Uniend:

• Bumblebee (pgs 2, 4) - Binder design
• Bulkhead (pg 2) - Prime-based design
• Arcee (pg 2) - Prime-based design in pink
• Sideswipe (pg 2) - Binder design
• Inferno (pg 3) - looks like a Binder design
• Blaster (pg 3) - could instead be a "Primax/Uniend" design since it looks like either a Binder design or a G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Sunstreaker (pg 3) - looks like a Binder design
• Powerglide (pg 3) - G1 design but confirmed via AVP to be Aligned
• Warpath (pg 3) - looks like a Binder design an very similar (but not exactly the same as) his WFC video game design
• Wheeljack (pg 3) - Prime design
• Ultra Magnus (pg 3) - WFC video game design
• Defensor (pg 4) - Very strongly resembles a Binder design
• Ratchet (pgs 4, 10) - Prime-based design
• Megatron (pgs 4, 5-6) - Binder design
• Devastator (pg 4) - Very strongly resembles a Binder design
• Barricade (pg 4) - Transformers Universe MMORPG design
• Jazz (pgs 4, 9) - Binder design, though slightly modified on Pg 9 to add vehicle elements from the Reveal the Shield toy design
• Quake (pg 4) - virtual redeco of Binder Megatron's tank mode
• Shockwave (pg 4) - WFC/FOC video game design
• Grimlock (pg 7) - FOC video game design
• Trypticon (pg 8) - G1 design, but described as turning into the Nemesis, which G1 Trypticon did not do
• Slug (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Swoop (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Snarl (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Sludge (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Swindle (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Blast Off (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Onslaught (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Vortex (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Brawl (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Bruticus (pg 8) - FOC video game design
• Optimus Prime (pgs 9-10) - Binder design
• Ironhide (pg 10) - Binder design

Primax/Uniend

• Starscream (pg 1) - G1 altmode, G1 robot w/ Binder-styled detailing, chasing Aligned Bumblebee in a G1-styled desert w/ the Ark in the volcano
• Scrounge (pg 3) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Big Red (pg 3) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Buzzsaw (pg 3) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Prowl (pg 3) - the Cybertronian and Earth altmodes depicted are those of War Within Prowl and Universe 2008 Prowl, but the robot head is FOC Prowl
• Cosmos (pg 4) - Universe 2008 toy design, but confirmed via AVP to be G1 and Aligned
• Rumble (pg 4) - Binder-styled design that resembles the Demolition Rumble toy (which would have used FIRRIB)
• Soundwave (pgs 4, 5) - resembles WFC Soundwave the most, but with edits made to the design to be more vague
• Laserbeak (pg 4) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Shrapnel/Sharpshot (pg 4) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Kickback (pg 4) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Bombshell/Hardshell (pg 4) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Ravage (pg 5) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Bumper (pgs 5-6) - Looks like G1, but is clearly being crushed by Binder Megatron
• Skywarp (pg 6) - G1 altmode, G1 robot w/ Binder-styled detailing
• Thundercracker (pg 6) - G1 altmode, G1 robot w/ Binder-styled detailing, AVP only confirmed the Seekers on Page 4 as being Primax. These ones on Page 6 are more vague
• Omega Supreme (pgs 7-8) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Metroplex (pg 8) - Generations toy design, which is both G1 and Aligned, and is described as turning into a mobile battle station, which FOC Metroplex never did but which G1 could do
• Perceptor (pg 10) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Jetfire (pg 10) - looks like either a Binder design or the Classics toy design with Binder-styled detailing
• Rodimus (pg 10) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Unicron (Special Edition page) - A unique G1-based design with the Prime design's robot mode head
• Galvatron (Special Edition page) - A unique G1-based design with Prime Megatron's legs
• Witwicky Exosuit (Special Edition page) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Springer (Special Edition page)- A unique design in the Binder style based on both G1 and the GDO toy that was retooled from 2010 Tomahawk
• Rodimus Prime (Special Edition page) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Kup (Special Edition page) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing
• Wreck-Gar (Special Edition page) - looks like either a Binder design or the G1 design with Binder-styled detailing

Tyran/Primax/Uniend:

• Lugnut (pgs 4, 6) - Reveal the Shield toy design and confirmed via AVP

Tyran

• Hoist (pg 3) - Looks just like the vehicle mode of ROTF Hoist redecoed from Movie Longarm
• Blackout (pg 3) - Movie design and confirmed via AVP

There we have it. --Sabrblade (talk) 18:35, 19 November 2015 (EST)

I'd say it's pretty safe to say that the Movie extra page is wholly Primax, considering that it is an "adaptation" of a story that takes place in the Primax cluster. --Ascendron (talk) 18:47, 19 November 2015 (EST)

True, but the designs of Unicron's head and Galvatron's legs are very much Prime designs straight up, giving room for the designs of all the Special Edition page characters to possibly represent both Primax and Uniend versions of each, even if the events described by the text apply only to the Primax versions. --Sabrblade (talk) 19:29, 19 November 2015 (EST)

So Sunstreaker and Inferno are definitely Uniend? S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 19:49, 19 November 2015 (EST)

That's my best guess since they're depicted in designs that are very reminiscent of Binder designs. I left them out of the "Primax/Uniend" category since I felt there were enough liberties taken with their looks to distinguish them from any Primax looks and consider them Uniend versions.

In hindsight, I wish we had asked Vector Prime about more of these back when we were able to. --Sabrblade (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2015 (EST)

That would certainly be helpful. Well, I guess I'll recreate a page for Uniend Inferno. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 13:21, 22 November 2015 (EST)

Made a minor correction to Prowl's placement, who is now in the Primax/Uniend category since his altmodes are Primax ones while his robot head is Uniend. --Sabrblade (talk) 22:10, 14 January 2016 (EST)