Talk:A Change to the Agenda

Xaaron, no one has anything nice to say about this comic but you. Have you actually read it? And, if so, have you actually read any of the other Beast Wars: Uprising fiction? If not, and I get the strong impression you haven't, I don't think your view has any validity. Continuum, which you brought up, is a perfect comparison. Like Continuum, this comic does not stand on its own. It has no new artwork and precious little new dialogue. What dialogue it does add is clunky and exposition-laden. We learn nothing about the characters we don't already know. Like Continuum, the sole raison d'etre of this book is to inform existing fiction. It's very reasonable to judge it harshly when it fails at the only thing it sets out to do. I notice that you didn't remove any of the actual errors, just the commentary about why releasing an error-laden comic is bad. Since we've had five editors besides yourself contribute to this article, if you strongly feel that this comic has merit of any kind, I think you should take it here rather than just cutting out the parts of the article you don't like.

As for the Dawn of the Predacus comparison, it's perfectly reasonable to point out that they didn't learn their lessons from it. It may have been IDW produced, but it was done for them, about their characters. I remember NightViper coming onto the boards to defend it. So they were certainly aware of its existence and reception. --Giggidy (talk) 08:39, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Yes, I've read it; Yes, I've read Uprising; No, that doesn't matter. My edits were based on the content of this page, not the content of the story. As you said, I left in all the Errors. What I removed was the cruel, message board level, overbearing snark you added. They were subjective rantings that contributed no humor or genuine content to the article. --Xaaron (talk) 09:09, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

See Continuum, which you brought up. See The Beast. See Dawn of the Predacus. There are plenty of snarky pages. If you feel strongly, build up a consensus before vandalizing the page. --Giggidy (talk) 09:22, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Giggidy, stop being melodramatic, Xaaron is not "vandalising" the article. Let's everyone cut it out with the edit war and, yes, have some discussion and reach a consensus. Jalaguy (talk) 09:28, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Fair play, Jalaguy. I think my point is simple. This comic exists solely to do one thing: tell an origin story. There's no character development, no pathos, no artwork, literally nothing else. The one thing it exists to do, it does badly. Not even Xaaron is disputing that. To me, that seems worth a little snark. I'm not inflexible, I took out the snark in the header. But the notes aren't untrue or unreasonable, and do add to the understanding of what's wrong with the comic. Since Beast Wars: Uprising is a fairly obscure corner of the Transformers mythology, presenting the laundry-list of errors without comment actually robs the casual reader of necessary context. And using a screen capture comic to do it is just embarrassing in 2016. I know at least 3 artists who would have illustrated this for free and done a terrific job. It's a comic with zero effort that detracts, rather than adds, to the universe. This wiki has always been good at calling out things like that, and I see no reason that this shouldn't be an exception. --Giggidy (talk) 09:34, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10.

Wow. That works even when you're just typing it.

Giggidy, deleting stuff somebody else wrote is not the definition of "Vandalism". For instance, somebody creating a new page about Pussy Prime and his adventures with the Kiss Players would be Vandalism. Deleting that stuff would be removing Vandalism. In my opinion, your contributions descended to that level, so I was removing Vandalism by cleaning up your contributions. But sure, let's talk about this.

Nothing I removed was factual information that is typically contributed to an article, so the only legit debate here is a question of article "style". I found the general tone of your contributions to be offensive and unamusing. Anyone reading my contribution history knows I am not a major defender of Fun Pub, but this page just went too far. As mentioned, Fun Pub repeatedly said IDW was responsible for Dawn, so that part wasn't even accurate. And adding a quote from Jesse W about how he shouldn't be quoted about it is just twisting the knife. I left in the comment about unironic screencap comics, but other than that, this comic was just one bad/poorly presented idea on a two page spread. Very different from the sheer number of epic fails per page of The Beast and Dawn. Poking fun is one thing, but half the Notes section amounting to laughing and pointing was too much. --Xaaron (talk) 09:44, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

I don't want to get into a semantic debate. I felt that you ignoring the talk page in favor of an edit war felt like vandalism. But it's not worth dwelling on. I see your greater point about tone. I'm not inclined to kindness because, as the meme goes, you had one job, but it is relatively short and easy to ignore. Your current edit, a compromise, works for me. I think the Jesse quote is informative, as it does appear that even one of the FP creators is backing off of it, but in the interest of good taste I can understand not including it.

On the plus side, I made McFeely laugh, so I've got that going for me. --Giggidy (talk) 10:09, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Quickstrike

How is bizarrely insisting that a literal alternate timeline follow what another timeline established a "thematically appropriate point"? So Quickstrike is a Predacon in this wildly different universe. So what? Saix (talk) 16:17, 18 August 2016 (EDT)

I agree with Saix. Honestly, we don't know enough about how Maximal and Predacon sparks were assigned allegiances, before or after the timeline change, to say it can't be different from one timeline to another. --Xaaron (talk) 18:26, 18 August 2016 (EDT)

Galvatron

Having thought more about it, I really don't think Unicron making Galvatron out of Megatron's long since dead corpse is really all that much of an issue. With Megatron no longer around to lead the Decepticons who awoke within the Ark in 1984, the Decepticons wouldn't have a strong leader to follow and (after a likely attempted-and-failed takeover by Starscream) would eventually become disorganized in their state of leaderlessness. By the time Unicron would come around seeking a herald to destroy the Matrix for him, he would need a herald who could best rally and reorganize the disillusioned Decepticons back together under one flag, and who better for Unicron to pick for that job than Megatron, the one leader who had once had virtually every Decepticon under his thumb? All Unicron would have to do is pluck Megatron's corpse from wherever it rested and reanimate/reformat it as Galvatron, a brand spanking new version of Megatron to bring all the Decepticons back together and instill newfound hope and confidence into his troops. Since Unicron would need all the Decepticon resources he could use and abuse to have the Matrix eliminated, there would be none more qualified for the job than a resurrected Megatron given a snazzy new form with new powers. Remember how in "Five Faces of Darkness" it took Galvatron's return to properly restore motivation and enthusiasm into the weary Decepticon army? Megatron's return as Galvatron in this timeline would likely be something very similar to that. Thus, Galvatron's being made from an ancient corpse doesn't really matter as much as it does that the corpse he was made from was specifically Megatron. --Sabrblade (talk) 01:17, 21 August 2016 (EDT)

That feels like a stretch. 1. Unicron didn't seem to care much what methods Galvatron used to destroy the Matrix, just that he do it. Hell, he GAVE him new soldiers out of the other dead Decepticons; I think he just took advantage of Megatron's hatred of Prime and the Autobots to galvanize him into action. 2. I think you underestimate Starscream. He somehow managed to calm everyone down for his coronation; whatever his methods, it worked. And if the Decepticons are rudderless without Megatron, how well do you think the Autobots would fare without Prime? We've consistently seen them depicted as underdogs (especially by the time of the movie), and something tells me that no one short of Magnus could get them organized into a force that a Starscream-led Decepticon army could withstand. Finally, 3. What's to say that the Matrix is even an issue anymore? This one's pure guesswork, but for all we know without proper "maintenance" it could have "died" some time after Prime was killed (Megatron seems to think that killing Prime would "kill" the Matrix too; whether he and I are wrong are a different matter). Point is, there are now too many variables to think that Unicron's methods would follow logically from this chain of events. Magaroja (talk) 13:20, 30 August 2016 (EDT)