Talk:Brainstorm (G1)
While I appreciate the recognition that the Japanese version of Brainstorm is rather different than the version in the first-paragraph summary, the summary is also significantly different (aside from the mention of Arcana) from any other non-IDW version. --G.B. Blackrock (talk) 14:44, 3 January 2014 (EST)
Dead Universe / Constructed Cold
[edit]Okay, I need some help on this before trying to update Brainstorm through Dark Cybertron. In MTMTE #17, Brainstorm indicated he was Forged, and "marched for knockoffs". In #21, though, he seemed to be suffering the effects of the universal killswitch, meaning he was REALLY Constructed Cold and misrepresenting himself. But Dark Cybertron confirmed Brainstorm HAD NO spark since the launch of the Lost Light thanks to the Dead Universe. So how could he be affected by the killswitch? --Xaaron (talk) 12:42, 23 May 2014 (EDT)
- Nova's corpse didn't render Brainstorm completely sparkless, it just left his spark in a low yield, "undead" state (I think Roberts confirmed this on Twitter sometime). And so the killswitch could still affect him, in the same way that you can "kill" a zombie, even though it's undead. Jalaguy (talk) 13:14, 23 May 2014 (EDT)
Equal Rights for Knockoffs
[edit]"Early in the war, Genitus went on anti-apartheid marches. While his "equal rights for knockoffs!" talk made him sound like he was a forged Transformer." Wait-a-minute. Was there even an apartheid at the time the war started? Brainstorm may be making stuff up to hide his status. ZeroSD (talk) 03:19, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
- "Forged or Constructed Cold?" was an outdated question when Megatron was arrested in Rodion and he was allowed to ignore it, which implies that the apartheid was at least officially over by that point. There's nothing to say that it didn't flare up again during the war, but it does look to me like Brainstorm is telling porkies there. --Emvee (talk) 04:18, 3 May 2015 (EDT)
First modern headmaster?
[edit]I can see why Overload isn't counted but why isn't Energon Omega Supreme the first modern headmaster?omegatron (talk) 17:34, 7 May 2015 (EDT)
- Given Overload has been specifically identified as using Headmaster technology, I'm not sure I can see justification for the former. He's also not the first modern toy of a Headmaster character, since we've had Weirdwolf and Hardhead. "First modern toy of a G1 Headmaster character which retains the Headmaster gimmick" is more accurate, but it sure makes it sound less noteworthy spelled out like that, doesn't it. -LV (talk) 23:33, 7 May 2015 (EDT)
Old Ways?
[edit]Why does "Old Ways" have to be a continuity error? TMK, we don't know when the first MTOs were activated during the war. They could have been thawed under the reign of Zeta Prime, making Genitus an early soldier before transferring to the New Institute. I don't think Prime was called "Optimus Prime" in Old Ways, so he could've still been Orion Pax during that exchange with Kup, setting it in Zeta's era (the length of which we don't know). --Xaaron (talk) 16:01, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- Its explicitly stated that without Megatron, he wouldn't have existed, so he was likely brought online in the war. Escargon (talk) 16:05, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- ...And how does that prevent him from appearing in Old Ways? There was a war, with Megatron, by the end of Sentinel Prime's era. Why can't Brainstorm be an MTO, created for the war, in Zeta Prime's era? --Xaaron (talk) 16:12, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- MTOs are pretty clearly a later-in-the-war innovation; the whole concept of them is that they're a drastic response to an escalating conflict that has reached a point where so many 'bots are dying so frequently they had to start "breeding" new ones specifically to be soldiers. I was a little puzzled by the timeline myself, though, wondering how Brainstorm being an MTO lined up with his working at the New Insitute, a Zeta innovation, so I asked Roberts about it on Twitter early last year, and he confirmed MTOs were not a Zeta creation. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:18, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- So certain information indicates that Brainstorm HAS to be active in Zeta's era, and certain OTHER information indicates Brainstorm CAN'T have been active in Zeta's era. And some of the conflicting info comes from the same author. Groovy.
- ...I'd still say leave it as it was, though. The conflict only comes from author intent and assumptions about when MTOs started. Without that, what occurred on the page DOES make sense. I appreciate going to the source sometimes, but this time it seems like Roberts' comment only made the timeline worse. Maybe addressing this problem in the Notes instead? --Xaaron (talk) 16:26, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- No, there's no conflicting info in Roberts's stories, the New Institute just persisted well beyond Zeta's death. The only conflicting info is from "Old Ways," which is already in conflict with things like Autocracy and which were already basically finagling into the timeline already. It's just another case of "Straxus in Megatron Origin" where we help nothing by pretending it's not an error. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:32, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- That doesn't make sense, either. The Institute (New or old) is an anathema to everything Optimus Prime believes. There's no way he would leave it open after he became Prime, or under the Grand Convocation. Chromedome says as much in Remembrance Day that they were operating behind the back of Orion Pax. He also says several things indicating Zeta was overseeing him and the New Institute at the time of Overlord's attack, when Brainstorm is seen there. That scene couldn't have been post-Zeta. --Xaaron (talk) 17:10, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- Not untrue. I mean, I always assumed that if the New Institute persisted under Optimus, it did so without his knowledge. I suppose it just seems... just... wrong to think that the war had reached this kind of a point under Zeta. When they talk about it it never sounds like it was anything more than a scattered insurgency that Zeta put a police force together to combat, not turning into a full-blown WAR until Zeta died and Optimus Prime took charge. The idea that the war was at some kind of level that involved discrete regional campaigns and battles so big they were named, and required soldiers to be bred for combat because they were dying so fast... under Zeta? That early? Before the war reached it's famous height? It just rings wrong. - Chris McFeely (talk) 17:21, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- I agree. My personal headcanon is that Roberts wrote himself into a corner resolving Nautica and Brainstorm's conflict, and made Brainy an MTO without considering all the consequences. Constructed Cold, sure, but an MTO? I get Brainstorm trying to bluff that he was forged (#17), but I don't see how he could realistically pretend to have been anti-apartheid and "marched for knockoffs" millions of years and several Primes before he was thawed. But I digress. Mostly, I just don't like the Wiki choosing which aspect of Brainstorm's history is the erroneous one. Obviously, the years-old, unpopular series written by a former writer that has existing conflicts is a solid choice. But is it on us to say that, anymore than it is to choose a cartoon origin for the Constructicons? --Xaaron (talk) 17:52, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- Yeah, I tend to agree the MTO explanation was not part of the character as he was originally writing him. I know it's not our place to dictate canon, per se, but some of these things do have more weight than others. The Constructicons, that's three separate episodes saying three separate things, for instance, no one more weighty than the other (well, "The Secret of Omega Supreme" IS corroborated to an extent by "The Master Builders," but, ahem, that's not what we're talking about). But when the thing that's sticking our craw here is a crowd-scene cameo in an already-problematic story that was almost certainly the momentary whim of the artist, rather than one that was actually scripted, I think hefty conceptual weight can certainly be given to the story that is actually about Brainstorm. I mean, given how Brainstorm's developed - the idea that he'd be standing in the line-up of those first selected for the Autobot police force?? Nothing about it feels right. For me, even back when I read #14, the idea that the conflict depicted was happened under Zeta never felt right. - Chris McFeely (talk) 18:01, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- I agree. My personal headcanon is that Roberts wrote himself into a corner resolving Nautica and Brainstorm's conflict, and made Brainy an MTO without considering all the consequences. Constructed Cold, sure, but an MTO? I get Brainstorm trying to bluff that he was forged (#17), but I don't see how he could realistically pretend to have been anti-apartheid and "marched for knockoffs" millions of years and several Primes before he was thawed. But I digress. Mostly, I just don't like the Wiki choosing which aspect of Brainstorm's history is the erroneous one. Obviously, the years-old, unpopular series written by a former writer that has existing conflicts is a solid choice. But is it on us to say that, anymore than it is to choose a cartoon origin for the Constructicons? --Xaaron (talk) 17:52, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- Not untrue. I mean, I always assumed that if the New Institute persisted under Optimus, it did so without his knowledge. I suppose it just seems... just... wrong to think that the war had reached this kind of a point under Zeta. When they talk about it it never sounds like it was anything more than a scattered insurgency that Zeta put a police force together to combat, not turning into a full-blown WAR until Zeta died and Optimus Prime took charge. The idea that the war was at some kind of level that involved discrete regional campaigns and battles so big they were named, and required soldiers to be bred for combat because they were dying so fast... under Zeta? That early? Before the war reached it's famous height? It just rings wrong. - Chris McFeely (talk) 17:21, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- That doesn't make sense, either. The Institute (New or old) is an anathema to everything Optimus Prime believes. There's no way he would leave it open after he became Prime, or under the Grand Convocation. Chromedome says as much in Remembrance Day that they were operating behind the back of Orion Pax. He also says several things indicating Zeta was overseeing him and the New Institute at the time of Overlord's attack, when Brainstorm is seen there. That scene couldn't have been post-Zeta. --Xaaron (talk) 17:10, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- No, there's no conflicting info in Roberts's stories, the New Institute just persisted well beyond Zeta's death. The only conflicting info is from "Old Ways," which is already in conflict with things like Autocracy and which were already basically finagling into the timeline already. It's just another case of "Straxus in Megatron Origin" where we help nothing by pretending it's not an error. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:32, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- MTOs are pretty clearly a later-in-the-war innovation; the whole concept of them is that they're a drastic response to an escalating conflict that has reached a point where so many 'bots are dying so frequently they had to start "breeding" new ones specifically to be soldiers. I was a little puzzled by the timeline myself, though, wondering how Brainstorm being an MTO lined up with his working at the New Insitute, a Zeta innovation, so I asked Roberts about it on Twitter early last year, and he confirmed MTOs were not a Zeta creation. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:18, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
- ...And how does that prevent him from appearing in Old Ways? There was a war, with Megatron, by the end of Sentinel Prime's era. Why can't Brainstorm be an MTO, created for the war, in Zeta Prime's era? --Xaaron (talk) 16:12, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
Cow jokes?
[edit]I'm missing something here with the cow references in the captions. What's the background of these jokes? Cosmos1 (talk) 18:37, 12 November 2017 (EST)
- It doesn't really come from anywhere, really. I just happened to be editing Brainstorm's page late one night and the idea of him having an irrational fear of cows made me chuckle for some reason, so I added a couple captions implying such a thing as I did whatever I was doing there in the first place (fixing links, I think).
- I guess it amused me to think of Brainstorm, an incredibly powerful giant robot with a massive intellect, being utterly and completely terrified of a harmless and incredibly passive Earth animal. As for how that idea got into my head in the first place, I have no idea. I guess I was just in a silly mood that day. -Foffy (talk) 20:58, 12 November 2017 (EST)