Talk:Carnivac (G1)
All right. Where on this guy's fiction section does the Earthforce split occur? Sadly, I want to say, uh, right after the American appearance, since Carnivac's entire arc is eventually connected to the Earthforce storyline, but damn. This whole thing sure is out-of-continuity. Too bad.
Also, we need the hell out of an Earthforce page. Just to address this clusterfuck. --ItsWalky 19:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Carnivac vs Spinister
[edit]Okay, since Blackout isn't listening on the edit comments, here comes the big chunk of text:
Carnivac set out to take his revenge on the Mayhems for killing Catilla. He killed Needlenose, then he killed Snarler, then he shot and killed Spinister, but he didn't kill Bludgeon, Octopunch and Stranglehold because it would be giving them what they'd want (a warrior's death), and considers captivity and mercy a fate worse than death for them. He's right, in a sense.
Also, he's not taken captive like the Pretenders. It makes no sense for Carnivac to go all out for revenge like that and just abandon Spinister with just a chest shot if that's not a certain kill.
And Spinister's death here makes sense from a storytelling standpoint. Look at his thought bubbles. He's getting the heck out of there before he gets killed, letting the others do the fighting so he can slip away... and bang, shot dead. It's a classic villain death.
You're behaving like all those "BRAWN DIDN'T DIE" people from years ago right now, Blackout. He took shots from Megatron before and lived but in the movie it killed him. Nobody says "OHMYGODTHEYKILLEDBRAWNYOUBASTARDS!" or anything but he's pretty obviously dead. Ditto Spinister. He may have taken a shot from Thunderwing and lived in a subsequent story, but here he's slagged by Carnivac's gun. The effectiveness of a Transformer's armor plating varies depending on what the story demands, it's always been like that. --Detour 13:32, 28 September 2009 (EDT)
- I never said he survived either. ---Blackout- 15:31, 28 September 2009 (EDT)
Carnivac and Stakeout
[edit]The Tyrest Accord was part of the interplanetary code of conflict both Autobots and Decepticons agreed to abide by. Sins #3 indicated that Carnivac used to work for Ultra Magnus with Stakeout, and in context it largely appeared to be a reference to them being Deputy Enforcers together under Magnus. Megatron would not leave enforcement of the Tyrest Accord solely to Autobots, that's just not realistic, so there must have been Decepticons involved in enforcing the Tyrest Accord as well. The scenario that makes most sense to me, with the current information available, is that Carnivac was a Decepticon deputy enforcer of the Tyrest Accord, working alongside Autobots like Stakeout for the greater good of Cybertronian law, until he became disenfranchised enough to abandon the Accord and join Mayhem.
And since neither Carnivac nor Stakeout said Carnivac used to be an Autobot, I think the untold story is ambiguous enough not to jump to conclusions that he MUST be a former Autobot. --Xaaron (talk) 14:30, 18 February 2016 (EST)
- These are some rather large assumptions, much larger than assuming that Stakeout's line about defection suggests Carnivac was an Autobot. Before SOTW, it was never really a problem that Ultra Magnus was the only only enforcer of the Tyrest Accord; why is it suddenly "not realistic" that only Autobots enforced it and there must have been Decepticons involved now? The use of "defect" also doesn't imply him joining Mayhem at all when the whole story acts like no one's heard of them until now; Carnivac had to explain who they were to Springer, Prowl assumed they were just Tarantulas's minions and Tarantulas had to also explain who they were to him (which says a lot about how little the Autobots knew this group even existed), Stakeout made that "this where your travels taken you" remark that implied he had no idea Carnivac was part of the group, etc. SOTW is Mayhem's big debut on the larger stage, and I find it hard to believe that Stakeout was saying he defected to the small group that had been in hiding, might have only just recently come into existence, and no one showed much sign of knowing already existing before now rather than the group they were still primarily at war with for millions of years. --Sockie (talk) 15:29, 18 February 2016 (EST)
- I agree with Sockie. Stakeout's line makes little sense if it's not a reference to Carnivac once being an Autobot. This is also a post-war story where factions and war conventions matter much less, so Carnivac "defecting" to Mayhem would hardly be a big deal. Saix (talk) 15:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)
@Sockie: It has ALWAYS been unrealistic that one 'bot was the sole enforcer for the code of conduct for an entire race's galaxy-wide war. It's not "suddenly" a problem. But that's not really the point since Stakeout has been already been introduced as another enforcer, so we KNOW Magnus is not the only one. I'd say it's quite an assumption to assume a joint accord between the Autobots and Decepticons, now known to be enforced by multiple parties, wouldn't also have Decepticons as enforcers.
Also, whether or not people knew Mayhem existed before this series is irrelevant to the conversation. Clearly, Stakeout knew at the time of their talk that Carnivac had moved on to a new, antagonistic allegiance. Also defect, from dictionary.com: "to desert a cause, country, etc., especially in order to adopt another". So while "switching sides" is the most common usage, the word at heart only means to leave one cause, not necessarily to ALSO join another. I see Stakeout as saying they all worked together to enforce the Tyrest Accord, then Carnivac abandoned their common cause. No mention of whether he was an Autobot or a Decepticon. But we know Carnivac WAS a Decepticon (Stormbringer issue 4) and, as I have pointed out, it is reasonable to assume the Tyrest Accord also had Decepticon enforcers. --Xaaron (talk) 16:07, 18 February 2016 (EST)