Talk:Convobat

Revert Convobat/Megalligator?

http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Convobat&diff=1051240&oldid=1051225 I don't want to start an edit war, but I don't agree with the above removal of content. It's established canon that micro-continuities exist involving ambiguities regarding G1 and Beast Wars. I think the images and toy info should be returned. If anything we know that these characters are based on these toys, regardless of whether Megatron/Optimus are their G1 forms, BW forms or unique individuals as brought up by Vector Prime. At the very lease the figures can be repurposed for that. --Iustitia (talk) 21:01, 27 January 2016 (EST)

"Established canon" aka "AVP said some irrelevant shit" because Jesus God that's all everything ever is lately. That aside, we don't know what Convobat and Megaligator look like, so we cannot say that the toys are repurposed; BWU characters don't use beast modes, so the likeliness of those two particular toys being repurposed is not high. Furthermore, images and toys specifically intended for the G1 characters do not belong or apply here. Saix (talk) 21:13, 27 January 2016 (EST)

I love AVP and I don't think those images belong here. Everyone we've seen in Beast Wars Uprising has had a new, pre-beast mode, usually based on some other toy. I think we have to assume that Megaligator and Convobat would be the same way. --Giggidy (talk) 22:30, 27 January 2016 (EST)

Don't get me wrong, I don't outright hate AVP as much as some others here do, but I'm getting increasingly tired of editing justifications/arguments hinging on "well, AVP said..." Saix (talk) 22:40, 27 January 2016 (EST)

Well... it is canon, so it's a valid reason to make a straightforward, non-controversial edit. On the other hand, if it's a controversial edit, I'm starting to think maybe there has to be an extra level of thought put into it. In this case, I think that it's ambiguous enough to not jump straight to an edit. If AVP said, yes, this toy existed in this universe as this character, sure, put it on there. But here we know that Convobat exists as his own bot in a universe where there are no beast modes, so it's clearly drawing from some part of the source material but not all of it. --Giggidy (talk) 22:57, 27 January 2016 (EST)

I don't really have a preference for this, as I don't care what the final decision ends up being. But I would suggest building a case around pre-existing articles, and what we settled on for those. I think both Jawbreaker and Goldbug (IDW)'s articles have had similar premises, though each is different enough from this one. Mainly, that both had at least a visual to reinforce a connection to a toy that isn't a perfect match for their appearance. Maybe what is different, and what is similar, should be used as determinations on whether or not this edit is to go through. There's undoubtedly other articles that could be used for the argument that I have not thought of. --Ascendron (talk) 23:33, 27 January 2016 (EST)

Can you explain Jawbreaker's relevance to this? Saix (talk) 23:35, 27 January 2016 (EST)

Isn't it somewhat of a similar situation? Both "beast era" toys represented in their only fictional appearances, (or in this case, implied representation), as a pre-Earth body? I felt it to be relevant, especially since it takes place in the same Universe. --Ascendron (talk) 23:47, 27 January 2016 (EST)

BWU Jawbreaker is just a version of BW Jawbreaker, though. Convobat as a unique character didn't exist till last year and is just a homage to an alternate name. Like, Lionhead is a reference to Under-3's alternate name, but we're not putting Under-3 stuff on Lionhead's page. Saix (talk) 00:18, 28 January 2016 (EST)

Hmm, yes. Your argument is quite sound. Having read your explanation, I personally can't really think up of a solid counterpoint, even if I were to want to play devil's advocate. --Ascendron (talk) 00:27, 28 January 2016 (EST)

"Repurposed" as "Beast Convoy"?

This is more about the figure being released in Japan than the character; do we know anything about it yet that excludes it (also) being a figure that represents Optimus Primal/Beast Convoy, too? Obviously it has its own name so going here would be obvious... but IIRC the release of the original Bat Primal figure in Japan was also called Convobat. Magaroja (talk) 09:47, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

Which toy are you talking about? Saix (talk) 10:05, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

Sounds like the e-HOBBY figure to me. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:26, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

In that case, then no. It is pretty specifically its own character, unless the full comic tells us that he ends up being Primal or whatever. Saix (talk) 13:09, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

The general speculation so far is that the Convobat comic might be telling a Japanese continuity origin story for BW Convoy/Optimus Primal and BW Megatron, but yes we need to wait and see if that will or won't be the case in the full comic before we do anything. --Sabrblade (talk) 13:32, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

Giggity, I know you erased what you wrote, but that's not what this conversation is talking about. Of COURSE we're gonna keep the e-HOBBY Convobat toy on this page. We were discussing whether or not it should ALSO go on Optimus Primal's toy page as a "repurposed as Optimus Primal" toy or not, and for which we're first gonna wait and see what the comic says about that before making any decision on that. --Sabrblade (talk) 17:45, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

If anything, there's now an argument for putting the original Convobat toys on this page, since e-HOBBY Convobat retcons their bios into a lie. Saix (talk) 17:52, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

I apologize. I had a tough day at school. I shouldn't edit angry. That's why I deleted the comment. I do think that it would make alot of sense to add the two Convobat toys to this page, in light of this new toy bio and what happened in Ask Vector Prime. --Giggidy (talk) 18:39, 8 September 2016 (EDT)

Sorry, I got a little wordy there, but yes, I was curious if the 2016/17 e-Hobby figure (the one using the TR Infinitus and Mindwipe molds) could also be used for Optimus Primal, since the G1-colored Bat Primal and Purple crocodile Megatron were released in Japan as "Convobat" and "Megalligator". It's sounding like no; I think I saw somewhere that the fiction attached to the 2016/17 figure explicitly defines them as new dudes. I have no opinion as to whether any other figures called "Convobat" should go here, though. Magaroja (talk) 12:24, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

At this point, we just don't know if this toy will be used to represent Optimus Primal or not because we simply don't have enough information pertaining to that notion yet. We have to wait and see what the 16-page comic that's gonna come with the figure will say about the toy's identity before we can do anything about it here. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:43, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

Red Convobat

Jim's addition was almost certainly for BW:U Convobat, no? Escargon (talk) 21:35, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Blue is fine. It's silly not to have this toy here in some form given the long complicated history.--Jimsorenson (talk) 21:37, 3 February 2021 (EST)

Tfwiki headache

The TR/legends variant says the head is a Nucleon retool, an Apeface retool, and an Infinitus retool. Please clarify. -Liokaset19

Re-read the toy write-up more carefully. Legends Convobat's head is an Infinitus redeco. The accessories list includes a second Titan Master redecoed from Nucleon and a monkey/jet/gun thing redecoed from the one included with the Apeface Titan Master. -AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 14:49, 11 September 2022 (EDT)