Talk:Devilstar
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Considering its mid 1986, the Scramble City OVA was released in April, which features Trypticon, Megatron and combiners (including Devastator). The landscape of the first stage is reminiscent of the diorama display made for the show and related commercials (desert, rocky mountains, starry backdrop and planets). Assuming the developer was Hiroshi Okamoto, he didn't have much interest in the transformers story and just went by current media. There is a shot from the stop motion scramble city, as Magnus is introduced, where a large ominous planet shoots out lasers. This might be the inspiration for "Devilstar" (pronounced devirustaa). But there is no denying the absence of Devastator (pronounced Devistaa) while all the other players of Scramble City are present. The first appearance of Ratbat was in SC, who is also in the game. I think the Devilstar and Devastator are somehow related. Venutech (talk) 23:05, 29 May 2024 (EDT)
- Devastator's Japanese name is デバスター ("Devastor"), not "デビスター". You are pulling together incoherent points to prove something you just made up in your head. Saix (talk) 23:39, 29 May 2024 (EDT)
- You are correct about the spelling, yet the pronunciation would still be Debastaa, still not far from DevilStar. Are you trying to prove that Devilstar is an entirely new thing? I'd appreciate some thoughts. Venutech (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2024 (EDT)
- For all we know, it could be based on "Death Star", but they replaced "Death" with an equally menacing word. The fact is there's simply not enough to go on, and all of this is purely speculative. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 00:06, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Also... one is a giant robot made of six smaller robots... and the other is... a sphere that is a sphere. That the two names sound roughly similar is coincidence at least and most. --M Sipher (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I would agree that there are other influences, like Star Wars, that prompted for a static planet for a boss. Word of a giant transforming planet being the primary menace in the upcomming TFTM might have added to that creative choice. TF media is meant to sell toys and would certainly showcase the characters that were being sold at the time. Combiners, including Devastator was still on the 1986 TF Catalog. The Insecticons were also on that 86 catalog but were omitted from the game, however, they do appear in the manga tie-in comic featuring Shunichi and Ultra Magnus Junior. Frenzy and Jaggar (Ravage) were mentioned in the 15+ min long promotion for the game but weren't anywhere to be found. Beyond featuring the current toy line, the game was intended to be a media replacement for the feature length toy commercial that was delayed. Mechanical bug lifeforms from the planet Energo, but no Insecticons | there's a Devil Star, but no Debastaa. All the other decepticons and autobots in the game appear on that catalog. This definitely requires a degree of speculation, but we can make some assertions based on our understanding of the intention of Transformers media. All the characters in the game also made an appearance in Scramble City, including the Nemesis, which was used as a boss. When three of the bosses are a recolored insignia, I can say some corners were cut. When a request for a game comes in with a list of characters and Devastator is on that list but instead we get a death star with its ventilation shaft showing, I can say this is another cut corner without losing sleep. It wouldn't be at the request of Takara to pull back and replace Devastator as the first boss because the toy was in production at the time. "When I asked him about the mystery of Convoy, he just said, "Hmm?" and didn't seem to be very conscious of the original Transformers or the story." blog about MoC from 2008. Drop it under speculation, but I find it strange that a Destron Boat made the cut over Devastator. I appreciate the discussion to get my thoughts out in the ether. Venutech (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Nobody is reading this paragraph. Saix (talk) 11:12, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I did, and I'm with the others. You'd have a much stronger case linking Devilstar to Unicron than to Devastator, what with Unicron being an obvious Death Star homage, Devilstar being very similar in name to said Death Star (as Cyberlink420 already pointed out), and Unicron basically being a cosmic devil at the time. If the game's designers had really wanted Devilstar to be based on Devastator, don't you think they would have made him yet another bouncing robot silhouette instead of a metal planetoid? This kind of grasping at straws has done more harm than good over the years. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:04, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I'm not trying to muddy any waters and also appreciate clarity. Devilstar no doubt has its roots in the death star, just like Unicron. What I'm suggesting is that instead of designing an all green gestalt while making it look reasonable in-game, the developer opted for some creative liberty. Had Devastator not been a nightmare to program with a limited amount of colors I'm sure it would've been done. Strangely, I came across an old amazon listing for a Takara Devastator that named him Devastar. I don't think its grasping at straws to say that some characters who were expected to be in the game were not present (Frenzy/Ravage). Due to time constraints, program memory limits, color palette, general lack of interest and the notion of a planet being an enemy; Devilstar was born from Devastar. Likewise, the mechanical insects from the insecticons. There was barely enough room in the character memory to add another gestalt boss and no room to write in the metatile data, so that wasn't an option in the end. I think making a green on green detailed boss wasn't feasible on NES graphics. Venutech (talk) 13:55, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Enough. This isn't the place for paragraphs of constant wild speculation. Take it to a forum. Saix (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Enough discussion on the discussion page? Join in with some thoughts or put a saix in it. Makes no difference, I'll be discussing this at our panel at TFCon in July. Venutech (talk) 14:25, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- ENOUGH. Saix, you need to chill. Venutech, to be frank, your theory has nothing to go on beyond your own speculation. It does not have enough actual evidence to support it and requires several leaps in logic to functionally work. You're drawing your own conclusions based on guesswork without any official statements from the people who worked on the game to back it up, and that kind of speculation does not belong on the page, period. And since this has moved far away from discussing actual page changes (which is what the talk pages are for) to just posting your headcanon theories (which is not what the talk pages are for), I suggest you drop this line of conversation, or you may be blocked from editing until you can learn what is and isn't acceptable for inclusion on the wiki articles. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 14:36, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Yeah, whatever. I'm really sick of this shit. I've done ALOT of work to back up my statements but the discussion is clearly leaning on one side. Not interested to participate if nobody wants to talk about it. Venutech (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- You really haven't done the one thing you actually need to do, which is find an actual statement from people involved in the game to support your claims. We've had enough Violen Jygars and Dezaruses and Ratoratas over the years that we're not interested in guessing name etymology without a source, and especially not guesses as to why decisions were made during the creative process. If you can find a statement from one of the devs explicitly stating that they took creative liberties with the boss because of technical limitations, then you can add it to the page. Otherwise, it's pure speculation and stays off. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 17:11, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Yeah, whatever. I'm really sick of this shit. I've done ALOT of work to back up my statements but the discussion is clearly leaning on one side. Not interested to participate if nobody wants to talk about it. Venutech (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- ENOUGH. Saix, you need to chill. Venutech, to be frank, your theory has nothing to go on beyond your own speculation. It does not have enough actual evidence to support it and requires several leaps in logic to functionally work. You're drawing your own conclusions based on guesswork without any official statements from the people who worked on the game to back it up, and that kind of speculation does not belong on the page, period. And since this has moved far away from discussing actual page changes (which is what the talk pages are for) to just posting your headcanon theories (which is not what the talk pages are for), I suggest you drop this line of conversation, or you may be blocked from editing until you can learn what is and isn't acceptable for inclusion on the wiki articles. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 14:36, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Enough discussion on the discussion page? Join in with some thoughts or put a saix in it. Makes no difference, I'll be discussing this at our panel at TFCon in July. Venutech (talk) 14:25, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Enough. This isn't the place for paragraphs of constant wild speculation. Take it to a forum. Saix (talk) 14:17, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I'm not trying to muddy any waters and also appreciate clarity. Devilstar no doubt has its roots in the death star, just like Unicron. What I'm suggesting is that instead of designing an all green gestalt while making it look reasonable in-game, the developer opted for some creative liberty. Had Devastator not been a nightmare to program with a limited amount of colors I'm sure it would've been done. Strangely, I came across an old amazon listing for a Takara Devastator that named him Devastar. I don't think its grasping at straws to say that some characters who were expected to be in the game were not present (Frenzy/Ravage). Due to time constraints, program memory limits, color palette, general lack of interest and the notion of a planet being an enemy; Devilstar was born from Devastar. Likewise, the mechanical insects from the insecticons. There was barely enough room in the character memory to add another gestalt boss and no room to write in the metatile data, so that wasn't an option in the end. I think making a green on green detailed boss wasn't feasible on NES graphics. Venutech (talk) 13:55, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I did, and I'm with the others. You'd have a much stronger case linking Devilstar to Unicron than to Devastator, what with Unicron being an obvious Death Star homage, Devilstar being very similar in name to said Death Star (as Cyberlink420 already pointed out), and Unicron basically being a cosmic devil at the time. If the game's designers had really wanted Devilstar to be based on Devastator, don't you think they would have made him yet another bouncing robot silhouette instead of a metal planetoid? This kind of grasping at straws has done more harm than good over the years. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:04, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Nobody is reading this paragraph. Saix (talk) 11:12, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- I would agree that there are other influences, like Star Wars, that prompted for a static planet for a boss. Word of a giant transforming planet being the primary menace in the upcomming TFTM might have added to that creative choice. TF media is meant to sell toys and would certainly showcase the characters that were being sold at the time. Combiners, including Devastator was still on the 1986 TF Catalog. The Insecticons were also on that 86 catalog but were omitted from the game, however, they do appear in the manga tie-in comic featuring Shunichi and Ultra Magnus Junior. Frenzy and Jaggar (Ravage) were mentioned in the 15+ min long promotion for the game but weren't anywhere to be found. Beyond featuring the current toy line, the game was intended to be a media replacement for the feature length toy commercial that was delayed. Mechanical bug lifeforms from the planet Energo, but no Insecticons | there's a Devil Star, but no Debastaa. All the other decepticons and autobots in the game appear on that catalog. This definitely requires a degree of speculation, but we can make some assertions based on our understanding of the intention of Transformers media. All the characters in the game also made an appearance in Scramble City, including the Nemesis, which was used as a boss. When three of the bosses are a recolored insignia, I can say some corners were cut. When a request for a game comes in with a list of characters and Devastator is on that list but instead we get a death star with its ventilation shaft showing, I can say this is another cut corner without losing sleep. It wouldn't be at the request of Takara to pull back and replace Devastator as the first boss because the toy was in production at the time. "When I asked him about the mystery of Convoy, he just said, "Hmm?" and didn't seem to be very conscious of the original Transformers or the story." blog about MoC from 2008. Drop it under speculation, but I find it strange that a Destron Boat made the cut over Devastator. I appreciate the discussion to get my thoughts out in the ether. Venutech (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- Also... one is a giant robot made of six smaller robots... and the other is... a sphere that is a sphere. That the two names sound roughly similar is coincidence at least and most. --M Sipher (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- For all we know, it could be based on "Death Star", but they replaced "Death" with an equally menacing word. The fact is there's simply not enough to go on, and all of this is purely speculative. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 00:06, 30 May 2024 (EDT)
- You are correct about the spelling, yet the pronunciation would still be Debastaa, still not far from DevilStar. Are you trying to prove that Devilstar is an entirely new thing? I'd appreciate some thoughts. Venutech (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2024 (EDT)