Talk:Fallback (TF 2010)
Since Reveal the Shield is pretty much G1 characters wouldn't that make Fallback Outback? --Ninjabot33 12:08, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Mindset isn't Mindset, so there's room for doubt. --ItsWalky 12:33, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Still, the bios are basically the same between this Fallback and Outback. It wouldn't be unreasonable to think they're the same, and he has used that name before. Granted, the older Fallback bio has him starting to obey the rules, buuuut Hasbro might want to reuse the character and ignore Club fiction. Plus, this guy hasn't been used in fiction yet. I dunno, the whole thing is pretty ambiguous, but I think we should move him to Outback's page until evidence proves otherwise. Antimatter 17:58, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- I wouldn't be too opposed. Let's see what a few more people say. --ItsWalky 18:39, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- I would consider Sea Spray a bigger candidate for merging before Fallback. —Interrobang 19:12, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Definite no on Sea Spray. He has profile fiction that places him firmly in the movie universe, no matter what Hasbro's author intent was. --ItsWalky 22:40, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Hey it's not like G1 characters or gobots can't show up in different universes. Like Fracture (and maybe but probably not Breakaway-Getaway and Crankcase-Crankcase), all the offworlders in Axiom Nexus like the G1 GoBots Withered Hope
- and Sideways-Sideways Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II. And also since the only thing in his bio placing him in the movie verse is Crankstart (unless my figure's on package bio isn't the only one) how can you be sure there isn't even an as of yet unheard of Crankstart in any other universe? My God this took forever to write. --Ninjabot33 07:02, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- And with the "unheard of G1 Crankstart" makes you pretty much lose the argument, since you're arguing via things that don't exist. Also, Fracture is not a dimension-hopping GoBot, she's a Decepticon from that universe that just happens to ressemble Crasher of the GoBots, just like we've had tons of Cy-Kills that weren't the GoBot Cy-Kill. --Detour 07:22, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- Hey don't tell me when I lose an argument. I know the g1 Crankstart was a long shot but still it's possible. Anyway how are you so sure Fracture isn't Crasher? Do you have any proof she can't be? That's what Hasbro said and I choose to believe them and that's the same way I feel about Sea Spray. --Ninjabot33 07:33, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- Read the Fracture note again. Intended, past tense. The note even points out how this was the plan before the toy's move to the Movie line. --Detour 07:41, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- Okay I know it's been a month since you wrote that but I just found something to reply with. BotCon 2005#Merchandise says intended about Fallback being Outback and we put that toy in Outback's page, so really using past tense on Fracture's page doesn't mean she's defenitely not Crasher. That's a funny coincidence that that's a Fallback-Outback problem, but that doesn't really add to that conversation. --Ninjabot33 11:43, 15 March 2011 (EDT)
- ...except that Outback is specifically mentioned on Fallback's bio.72.35.60.2 13:11, 15 March 2011 (EDT)
- Okay I know it's been a month since you wrote that but I just found something to reply with. BotCon 2005#Merchandise says intended about Fallback being Outback and we put that toy in Outback's page, so really using past tense on Fracture's page doesn't mean she's defenitely not Crasher. That's a funny coincidence that that's a Fallback-Outback problem, but that doesn't really add to that conversation. --Ninjabot33 11:43, 15 March 2011 (EDT)
- Read the Fracture note again. Intended, past tense. The note even points out how this was the plan before the toy's move to the Movie line. --Detour 07:41, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- Hey don't tell me when I lose an argument. I know the g1 Crankstart was a long shot but still it's possible. Anyway how are you so sure Fracture isn't Crasher? Do you have any proof she can't be? That's what Hasbro said and I choose to believe them and that's the same way I feel about Sea Spray. --Ninjabot33 07:33, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- And with the "unheard of G1 Crankstart" makes you pretty much lose the argument, since you're arguing via things that don't exist. Also, Fracture is not a dimension-hopping GoBot, she's a Decepticon from that universe that just happens to ressemble Crasher of the GoBots, just like we've had tons of Cy-Kills that weren't the GoBot Cy-Kill. --Detour 07:22, 23 January 2011 (EST)
- I've thought the same. I think they both should go to G1. --ZacWilliam 20:47, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- I agree. They can have new pages too if they end up in a movie comic or something, but they should be on the G1 characters' pages either way. Chip 22:26, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Definite no on Sea Spray. He has profile fiction that places him firmly in the movie universe, no matter what Hasbro's author intent was. --ItsWalky 22:40, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- I would consider Sea Spray a bigger candidate for merging before Fallback. —Interrobang 19:12, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- I wouldn't be too opposed. Let's see what a few more people say. --ItsWalky 18:39, 22 January 2011 (EST)
- Still, the bios are basically the same between this Fallback and Outback. It wouldn't be unreasonable to think they're the same, and he has used that name before. Granted, the older Fallback bio has him starting to obey the rules, buuuut Hasbro might want to reuse the character and ignore Club fiction. Plus, this guy hasn't been used in fiction yet. I dunno, the whole thing is pretty ambiguous, but I think we should move him to Outback's page until evidence proves otherwise. Antimatter 17:58, 22 January 2011 (EST)
Okay, if there aren't any major objections to it, can we at least put one of those merge thingies on the page? --Ninjabot33 11:37, 31 January 2011 (EST)
- I added the merge template hoping to encourage more discussion. --Khajidha 08:01, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Yeah, no. Until there's solid evidence he's in G1, he should be treated like all other TF 2010 toys and placed on his own page. --Detour 08:09, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- He does ship in a wave with Jazz and Tracks, and he has his G1 self's personality. I suppose it depends on how much it matters to you that he looks more movie-y than usual. But if it doesn't stop Lockdown... --ItsWalky 09:37, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- I'm not even sure Lockdown should count, frankly. While Milne based him on the ROTF toy, there are fundamental differences between his comic appearance and the toy, such as the entire head and the legs. --Detour 09:42, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- No, Lockdown's head is the same. It's just his face that has a normal mouth instead of whatever the toy has. And his legs are half-transformed. These are not fundamental differences. --ItsWalky 09:45, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Hm, you're right, I guess. But still, Lockdown's there because he's been concretely put in G1. As far as the bio goes, though, I believe we've had identical bios cross be similar without them being the same character, such as ROTF Reverb vs Movie Reverb. --Detour 10:11, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- You are correct about that, yeah. I don't really have any strong feelings one direction or the other. I just thought "all of the other TF 2010 toys" was inaccurate, and I provided another toy from that year that's in "movie style" that also serves as a G1 toy. --ItsWalky 10:19, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. I meant more the 2010 line toys that don't have any fiction associating them with any particular continuity. I mean if his design ends up showing up in IDW's G1 comics, I'll have no objection to a merge, but right now, everything's kind of iffy due to Hasbro's increasing refusal to admit to separate continuities. --Detour 10:32, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- I think the fundamental issue I have with this is that, as a rule, movie toys do not get redecoed as non-movie guys. It seems very likely that any new-mold guys in RTS at this point are going to be considered G1 characters, but this is a movie mold in a nebulous, fiction-free environment. And, if I had to guess, I'd say it's a lot more likely he'll show up in a Movie story than in a G1 story, because anyone wanting to use Outback in a G1 story would think this mold doesn't look enough like Outback. -LV 11:47, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- I agree with LV, and don't think he should be put in G1. I mean, it's not like a movie-universe character with a G1 character's name AND a near identical bio note is remotely unheard-of. --M Sipher 19:06, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- If Seaspray (who LOOKS more like his G1 self than "Fallback" does) isn't going to be considered "G1" in this wiki, then there's no legitimate reason that Fallback shouldKarhukjnsi 05:04, 21 February 2011 (EST)
- Seaspray's placement is because his bio explicitly ties him to movie guys, not because of his appearance. If he turned up in G1 fiction in that body, we'd put him on the G1 guy's page. The same is true of Fallback, regardless of who is more or less geewun than he is. --152.15.24.58 10:33, 21 February 2011 (EST)
- Er, that was me. Thought I was logged in. --Andrusi 10:34, 21 February 2011 (EST)
- His bio only ties him in with movie-styled characters, ones that are not necessarily placed in the movie universe, or any specific universe, for that matter. Crankstart and Breacher are movie-styled, but that's as far as that goes with them, none of the three show up in any fiction apart from their bios. Nonetheless, again, if Seaspray doesn't "deserve" G1 status placement (even with Hasbro's current position), then Fallback doesn't, either. --Karhukjnsi 06:11, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- Crankstart was in Titan's movieverse comic, which would qualify him for movie-character status. --abates 06:16, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- You say that as if Titan was a legitimate source to look for info on the Movieverse. It may be canon in A form, maybe, but I find that argument flimsy and highly disputable. --Karhukjnsi 06:20, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- No. Its not. As far as this wiki is concerned anything approved by Hasbro is cannon. The Titan books are thus unarguably 100% as much official canon as anyything else.--76.28.76.206 13:08, 15 March 2011 (EDT)
- Crankstart appears in movieverse fiction, Sea Spray has an established rivalry with Crankstart. Crankstart has been established as being in the movieverse... And he's the sole indicator of where Sea Spray would belong, therefore it indicates that Sea Spray is a movieverse character. Otherwise we have no indicator whatsoever beyond "he's an homage to the G1 guy!". --Detour 06:28, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- Yes, yes, we're all familiar with this spiel, but nonetheless, if Seaspray can't be accepted to this wiki as G1, then neither should Fallback until direct placement into the G1-verse (ala Lockdown). --Karhukjnsi 06:37, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- So what the hell are you arguing, then? --Detour 06:47, 22 February 2011 (EST)n
- That Fallback shouldn't be on the G1 Outback page, especially if Seaspray can't. --Karhukjnsi 06:49, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- So what the hell are you arguing, then? --Detour 06:47, 22 February 2011 (EST)n
- Yes, yes, we're all familiar with this spiel, but nonetheless, if Seaspray can't be accepted to this wiki as G1, then neither should Fallback until direct placement into the G1-verse (ala Lockdown). --Karhukjnsi 06:37, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- You say that as if Titan was a legitimate source to look for info on the Movieverse. It may be canon in A form, maybe, but I find that argument flimsy and highly disputable. --Karhukjnsi 06:20, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- Crankstart was in Titan's movieverse comic, which would qualify him for movie-character status. --abates 06:16, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- His bio only ties him in with movie-styled characters, ones that are not necessarily placed in the movie universe, or any specific universe, for that matter. Crankstart and Breacher are movie-styled, but that's as far as that goes with them, none of the three show up in any fiction apart from their bios. Nonetheless, again, if Seaspray doesn't "deserve" G1 status placement (even with Hasbro's current position), then Fallback doesn't, either. --Karhukjnsi 06:11, 22 February 2011 (EST)
- If Seaspray (who LOOKS more like his G1 self than "Fallback" does) isn't going to be considered "G1" in this wiki, then there's no legitimate reason that Fallback shouldKarhukjnsi 05:04, 21 February 2011 (EST)
- I agree with LV, and don't think he should be put in G1. I mean, it's not like a movie-universe character with a G1 character's name AND a near identical bio note is remotely unheard-of. --M Sipher 19:06, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- I think the fundamental issue I have with this is that, as a rule, movie toys do not get redecoed as non-movie guys. It seems very likely that any new-mold guys in RTS at this point are going to be considered G1 characters, but this is a movie mold in a nebulous, fiction-free environment. And, if I had to guess, I'd say it's a lot more likely he'll show up in a Movie story than in a G1 story, because anyone wanting to use Outback in a G1 story would think this mold doesn't look enough like Outback. -LV 11:47, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. I meant more the 2010 line toys that don't have any fiction associating them with any particular continuity. I mean if his design ends up showing up in IDW's G1 comics, I'll have no objection to a merge, but right now, everything's kind of iffy due to Hasbro's increasing refusal to admit to separate continuities. --Detour 10:32, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- You are correct about that, yeah. I don't really have any strong feelings one direction or the other. I just thought "all of the other TF 2010 toys" was inaccurate, and I provided another toy from that year that's in "movie style" that also serves as a G1 toy. --ItsWalky 10:19, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Hm, you're right, I guess. But still, Lockdown's there because he's been concretely put in G1. As far as the bio goes, though, I believe we've had identical bios cross be similar without them being the same character, such as ROTF Reverb vs Movie Reverb. --Detour 10:11, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- No, Lockdown's head is the same. It's just his face that has a normal mouth instead of whatever the toy has. And his legs are half-transformed. These are not fundamental differences. --ItsWalky 09:45, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- I'm not even sure Lockdown should count, frankly. While Milne based him on the ROTF toy, there are fundamental differences between his comic appearance and the toy, such as the entire head and the legs. --Detour 09:42, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- He does ship in a wave with Jazz and Tracks, and he has his G1 self's personality. I suppose it depends on how much it matters to you that he looks more movie-y than usual. But if it doesn't stop Lockdown... --ItsWalky 09:37, 6 February 2011 (EST)
- Yeah, no. Until there's solid evidence he's in G1, he should be treated like all other TF 2010 toys and placed on his own page. --Detour 08:09, 6 February 2011 (EST)
Surely as this name has been used for the Botcon homage, this is obviously Outback? All RTS LINE are meant to be G1 homages as far as I know. None have appeared in movie fiction, ergo surely they should be considered g1? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drift1998 (talk • contribs){{#if:| {{{2}}}|}}.
- The fact that G1 Outback has used the same trademark-reasons alternate name is entirely irrelevant. And "if they aren't in movie fiction they're automatically G1" makes no sense either. Fact is, there's no way of knowing where this guy is from, so the article doesn't specify a continuity family. Jalaguy 14:44, 13 September 2013 (EDT)
Faction symbol
[edit]The pic shows an Autobot symbol on Fallback's chest, which is the reason for the caption joke. But, uh, my Fallback just has empty space there. Is this a proto-to-release difference or a variant? --Andrusi 10:56, 7 May 2011 (EDT)
- It seems to have just been promotional photography. Walky has pictures of my Fallback in the pipeline, which will probably necessitate a caption change. -LV 11:09, 7 May 2011 (EDT)