Talk:Onslaught (ROTF)

"Revenge of the Fallen Onslaught was developed independently of the on-screen character, yet shares the same article for simplicity and because both of them are based off Generation 1 Onslaught." Are they, though? Different alt-mode, different personality, different colours, no apparent shared design heritage... is there actually any good reason for TLK Onslaught to be on this page? --Riptide (talk) 12:19, 4 December 2022 (EST)

Personally, I've been feeling lately that all of the Universe Combaticons and Aerialbots that were sold under ROTF in the US really should no longer be treated as Movieverse characters, since the toys were only sold in ROTF packaging in the US because Target wanted more ROTF toys, despite the Universe-packaged versions having already seen release outside the US. Both Superion and Bruticus Maximus were given the exact same bios and tech specs as they had on their Universe toy boxes, and unlike those Walmart redecos of Cybertron/Classics Deluxes that were originally meant for Universe but instead released under the 2007 Movie label, no effort was ever made to actually depict the Aerialbots and Combaticons as Movieverse characters in any Movieverse fiction with designs based on those toys. At the time of their release, it made sense to give them Movieverse pages since we had that precedent set by those Walmart redecos, but we didn't know at the time that the same Movieverse character treatment that was given to the Walmart redecos by Movieverse fiction would never actually be given to the Aerialbots and Combaticons.

Basically, the complete non-entities that are Superion (ROTF), Fireflight (ROTF), Airazor (ROTF), Blast Off (ROTF), and Swindle (ROTF) should go bye-bye, Air Raid (Movie), Skydive (Movie), Brawl (Movie), and Vortex (Movie) should nix their coverage of the ROTF toys, Silverbolt (ROTF) should be at "Silverbolt (DOTM)" focusing only on the DOTM game character, Bruticus Maximus (ROTF) should be at just "Bruticus (ROTF)" covering only the name-dropped mention from the Titan ROTF comic, and Onslaught (ROTF) should indeed be at "Onslaught (TLK)" focusing only on the TLK character. It's incredibly nonsensical to continue keeping them all where currently are now. --Sabrblade (talk) 14:33, 4 December 2022 (EST)

I think this is something that I could go back and forth on, but right now yeah, I think the fact that those Universe toys were given Revenge of the Fallen packaging in some markets is no reason to have this nonsensical doubling-up on articles, particularly in cases where it creates confusing situations like this. Maybe just leave notes on the relevant movieverse pages. I feel the same way about that Cyberverse wave with Mirage (Prime)/Soundwave (Prime)/Evac (Prime). That said, I can definitely see the perspective where those pages should remain; the situation is identical to that of the Cybertron redecos from the first movie toyline, except for the fact that fiction actually followed through on the branding change. —The Wadapan (talk) 17:38, 4 December 2022 (EST)

I think what justifies the Superion and Bruticus guys having their own pages is that the packaging art for them are in two distinct styles: the same G1-type Marcelo Matere art for the Universe guys, and the headshot with distinctive movie elements (the eyes, for instance) for the movie packaging. The Prime Cyberverse guys have nothing like that. Escargon (talk) 17:51, 4 December 2022 (EST)

I agree with Wads about those three Cyberverse Legion class toys. Looking over the old discussion on Mirage's talk page, the simplest thing to have done would have been to consider all three figures of that wave as just the Movieverse versions that they were clearly intended to be, and just consider the European packaging using the Prime logo as an error since the US retail version purposely nixed the "Prime" part of the logo since they weren't Prime characters (and since Nevermore's extensive research into international Transformers packaging has turned up lots more errors, anomalies, and other oddities found in European Transformers packaging from over the years). We'd still have to keep the Mirage (Prime) article itself, since Mirage did debut fictionally in the Retribution novel, but his mainpic would probably instead be his blacklisted card from RID 2015 --Sabrblade (talk) 18:09, 4 December 2022 (EST)

As for the Superion and Bruticus head box art, there is the more recent precedent of the Tiny Titans card art drawing G1 and Beast Wars characters in the RID 2015 art style, while we still consider them to be the G1 and Beast Wars versions instead of new RID 2015 versions. --Sabrblade (talk) 18:12, 4 December 2022 (EST)

I don't think that's a fair point of comparison; Tiny Titans comes from over half a decade later, and is from a time when Hasbro was pushing more towards homogenization, where as 2009 era Hasbro was still in that pre-Aligned era of Hasbro where there was still some level of differentiation. Escargon (talk) 18:17, 4 December 2022 (EST)

You make a fair point. Although, looking at those head art pieces, as much as they try to emulate the Movie aesthetic, they still just don't quite match the wider aesthetic of ROTF. Frankly, they look more like something out of the War for Cybertron video game aesthetic, all because the toys themselves had a very un-Movie-like aesthetic. While the same was true for the aforementioned Walmart Deluxe redecos and any other Unicron Trilogy mold redecos from the 2007 Movie toyline, many of them were given more Movie-esque redesigns in their fictional appearances to make them better align with the overall Movie aesthetic. Superion and Bruticus Maximus didn't get that same treatment.

Looking over the entirety of the ROTF toyline, I only just now realize that the Superion and Bruticus Maximus sets were the only releases in the entire line to feature strictly non-Movieverse molds. All others were either ROTF molds, 2007 Movie molds, or Universe Legends class molds packaged with Movie/ROTF Legends molds. In that sense, those two five-packs stand out as the most "un-ROTF" toys in the ROTF toyline. --Sabrblade (talk) 18:43, 4 December 2022 (EST)