Talk:Shockwave (SG)
Possible Pic
[edit]On a TFCC Wallpaper, I've seen a character which is basically a yellow Shockblast. I'm assuming this is meant to be SG Shockwave, but since there's no information beyond the picture, all it is is assumption. Can we possibly use it as his pic or not? Riddlerj 21:09, 2 March 2011 (EST)
- Good question... Shockwave hasn't really shown up in fiction beyond a mention by Megatron... Perhaps this should be a question to ask Trent Troop, who made the image? --Detour 21:30, 2 March 2011 (EST)
- It is SG Shockwave. [1] --67.252.49.31 21:38, 2 March 2011 (EST)
- I'll upload it for now, unless anyone decides against it. Riddlerj 22:00, 2 March 2011 (EST)
- It is SG Shockwave. [1] --67.252.49.31 21:38, 2 March 2011 (EST)
Isn't he seeking Beta Maxx to learn the secrets of Primus according to BM's Bio? 71.238.50.144 08:52, 13 January 2012 (EST)
- No, that bio was written long before SG Shockwave was created. It's likely referring to TransTech Shockwave, who was the Shockwave being written at the time the bio was published. It's not impossible for FP to retcon this, and it might even make more sense, but our job here is not to change things because we think they make more sense. Deciding on our own that Beta Maxx's bio referred to a Shockwave who didn't exist yet at the time is totally making things up. --ItsWalky 10:24, 13 January 2012 (EST)
"Harmonizing"
[edit]For one: where exactly was it discussed that we should "harmonize" the two interpretations of SG characters? And for two: why? I don't think "harmonizing" works for characters that have two wildly different personalities (read: one is an original personality and one is largely based on what IDW had done before with the original versions of the characters in MTMTE et al) and that we should come up with a different solution to that. Escargon (talk) 12:27, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Writing bios that combine elements of multiple characterizations is literally a thing we do all the time. There's no problem here. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:31, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Blaster, Shockwave, Scorponok, and Fortress Maximus are all evidence to the contrary. And again, where was this "discussion?" Because as far as I can tell, there was none. Escargon (talk) 12:34, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- A, we have always written intros to be continuity-neutral where possible. B, Loco literally did this for Blaster, Goldbug and Optimus, and no one cared. Gonna suggest you let this one go. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:37, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I didn't notice Locoman's edits to Blaster; for Goldbug and Optimus it's whatever, their personalities in either one are largely similar, but I absolutely bristle at the Blaster example because there is no similarity in personality between either version. Escargon (talk) 12:39, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- And again: why is this discussion happening in the Discord and not actually on the Wiki where there's actual records of it happening? Escargon (talk) 12:46, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Because, again, continuity-neutral lead paragraphs have always been a thing we've done. Funpub does not get special treatment just because it came first. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:50, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I've been at this Wiki for nearly a decade, I know what we generally do. But in my opinion the differences between FunPub SG and IDW SG are large enough that they aren't as easily "reconciled," which is why I brought up Blaster et al, and why I'm frustrated that there was no discussion beforehand. Escargon (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- As you just said, that's your opinion. TransFormersfan1 is not the one in the wrong for doing what we always do, and did not need to "start a discussion" to treat the article the same way we do every other article on the wiki. It's on you to argue why IDWSG is somehow exempt from what you just admitted is our own usual policy. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 13:05, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- There are multiple exceptions to the rule that I have already brought up in the course of this discussion. Generation 1 Blaster's intro mainly goes with the cartoon depictions of him; there's only vague overtones of the more angsty personality he has in the comics, which is irreconcilable with the cartoon's happy-go-lucky take on the character. Generation 1 Shockwave's page goes with the comic; there's not a single mention of the "loyal Decepticon" take from the cartoon despite that being a major version of the character. IDW SG's take on Blaster, Soundwave, and other characters (Ratbat and Ravage in the first series comes to mind) are in similar boats. And yes, there are characters that are fairly similar between both versions; Starscream, Optimus, and Goldbug are all fairly close, despite the difference in details. But that doesn't mean that unilaterally we should just go ahead and do it for each and every SG character that shows up. Escargon (talk) 13:16, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- As you just said, that's your opinion. TransFormersfan1 is not the one in the wrong for doing what we always do, and did not need to "start a discussion" to treat the article the same way we do every other article on the wiki. It's on you to argue why IDWSG is somehow exempt from what you just admitted is our own usual policy. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 13:05, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I've been at this Wiki for nearly a decade, I know what we generally do. But in my opinion the differences between FunPub SG and IDW SG are large enough that they aren't as easily "reconciled," which is why I brought up Blaster et al, and why I'm frustrated that there was no discussion beforehand. Escargon (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Because, again, continuity-neutral lead paragraphs have always been a thing we've done. Funpub does not get special treatment just because it came first. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:50, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- A, we have always written intros to be continuity-neutral where possible. B, Loco literally did this for Blaster, Goldbug and Optimus, and no one cared. Gonna suggest you let this one go. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:37, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Blaster, Shockwave, Scorponok, and Fortress Maximus are all evidence to the contrary. And again, where was this "discussion?" Because as far as I can tell, there was none. Escargon (talk) 12:34, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
"Why are you reverting this, it was already agreed on Discord" - I'll take things that should never be written again for $10000. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 13:26, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- This isn't about Discord, and is completely removed from the context. TFf1 asked if the lead should be rewritten to incorporate IDW2, and they were told by Grum and myself that our general policy is continuity-neutral intros, which it is. It's fine if you don't want to join the Discord, but stop acting like people asking questions there to get an immediate answer is some sort of crime. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 13:33, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I'm not allowed in the Discord. I don't care if it's asked over in there; it's bound to get a quicker answer just because of the amount of people in there. But if something is brought up over there and not here, don't act surprised when people who aren't there aren't on the same page. Escargon (talk) 14:51, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- In what way is adjusting writeups to account for different portrayals of comparable weight against our policies? S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 15:50, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I'm not allowed in the Discord. I don't care if it's asked over in there; it's bound to get a quicker answer just because of the amount of people in there. But if something is brought up over there and not here, don't act surprised when people who aren't there aren't on the same page. Escargon (talk) 14:51, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
This bit that has just been added to SG Megatron's page is a perfect example of what I've been talking about: "Despite his centuries of heroic resistance, Megatron feels poorly suited to command. Gruff and short-tempered, he doesn't understand why the Decepticons put their trust and faith in him. In fact, he'd rather they didn't. Every life lost weights heavy on him, and the responsibility of leadership is one he wishes he could simply put down. But if the Decepticons want him to lead them, he will." This is literally only true for the IDW version; there's "harmonizing" and then there's "putting two completely contradictory characterizations into the lead and acting like they're the same." If we're going to be insistent on "harmonizing" then it needs to be done better than this. Escargon (talk) 14:45, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Yes, it's only true for the IDW version. But that version has now had more media appearances than the FP one, and it doesn't fly in the face of his FunPub incarnation either. That incarnation was always humble, adding his defining IDW traits to an otherwise FunPub bio seems like exactly the kind of harmonizing we're trying to achieve. I'm happy to discuss it. But I don't appreciate that after admins have decided, you're acting like the final say on this and erasing my edits. So how would you rewrite the SG Megatron page to equally reflect both incarnations of the character, without erasing a bunch of writing other contributors have made? TransFormersfan1 (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I really don’t think “the latter version of the character appeared more” is grounds for saying that the article’s intro should have that forced in there; FP SG Megatron absolutely never had anything that made him seem weary of his cause. Off the top of my head, the IDW version of Jhiaxus technically has more appearances than the original, but that doesn’t make him “more important” than the original. Or the various versions of Straxus, for that matter. Escargon (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- It doesn't strike me as the least bit incompatible. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:42, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Really. You don’t see any difference between “leader still fighting after all these years willing to sacrifice himself for someone he just met” and “tired old man who doesn’t believe he can fight anymore.”? Escargon (talk) 15:49, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Nope, because the section isn't just about Funpub Megs. Or are you suggesting we strip out all the stuff about Galvatron too since that only applies to Funpub? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:52, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Oh for god’s sake. If we’re going to have an overview of all versions then it shouldn’t have something that’s about a very specific incarnation of the character and none of the others. I wouldn’t object to a line like “oftentimes Megatron is faced with overwhelming odds but even in the face of defeat he finds a way to push forward his cause” because that is applicable to both. Saying that he feels like a disappointment to his followers is not. Escargon (talk) 15:57, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- "it shouldn’t have something that’s about a very specific incarnation of the character and none of the others" That is literally what you keep reverting to. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:58, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I also don't think you're reading what I wrote. He doesn't think he's worthy of being leader, and the loss wears on him. What about that is really so contradictory? The purpose of the opening bios is to give readers a sense of the general character. That means some of FunPub, some of IDW. I think if anything I'm being deferential to the Club incarnation by only adding one new paragraph that isn't terribly contradictory and noting in some universes he's a miner. I personally prefer the Club take, but I'm trying to make it accessible and clear for IDW/Pulse readers. TransFormersfan1 (talk) 16:05, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Oh for god’s sake. If we’re going to have an overview of all versions then it shouldn’t have something that’s about a very specific incarnation of the character and none of the others. I wouldn’t object to a line like “oftentimes Megatron is faced with overwhelming odds but even in the face of defeat he finds a way to push forward his cause” because that is applicable to both. Saying that he feels like a disappointment to his followers is not. Escargon (talk) 15:57, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Nope, because the section isn't just about Funpub Megs. Or are you suggesting we strip out all the stuff about Galvatron too since that only applies to Funpub? -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:52, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Really. You don’t see any difference between “leader still fighting after all these years willing to sacrifice himself for someone he just met” and “tired old man who doesn’t believe he can fight anymore.”? Escargon (talk) 15:49, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- It doesn't strike me as the least bit incompatible. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:42, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- I really don’t think “the latter version of the character appeared more” is grounds for saying that the article’s intro should have that forced in there; FP SG Megatron absolutely never had anything that made him seem weary of his cause. Off the top of my head, the IDW version of Jhiaxus technically has more appearances than the original, but that doesn’t make him “more important” than the original. Or the various versions of Straxus, for that matter. Escargon (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
Ohhh-kay. Cyberlink and TFfan1 are correct that we generally try to have our opening paragraphs reflect as broad a selection of the character's portrayals as possible - and yes, that CAN include attributes that are exclusive to one version of the character, as seen on G1 Swerve mentioning IDW-exclusive concepts. At the same time, Escargon is correct that sometimes there are portrayals that are SO distinct that it's not really possible to reconcile them, and they have to be noted separately; I think that SG Blaster is an example of that. With that in mind, can we focus on individual characters rather than arguing over the idea of the intros being cross-continuity? Thanks. --Riptide (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- Fair enough. I had hesitated from totally rewriting them out of respect for previous contributors, but I can see how that's made things too difficult to reconcile. I worry about us losing the unqiue traits of the characters as we smooth them out into something that can be about either. TransFormersfan1 (talk) 16:41, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- When I wrote Blaster’s intro paragraph I felt like there were enough points of commonality—uptight, perfectionist, asshole that even the other Autobots hate— to take a stab at a more unified rewrite. At any rate, and regardless of how you feel about IDWSG, it seems wrong to prioritize the FunPub universe where he’s a side character with a funny accent over the reboot comics where he’s a major character who got an entire issue to himself. Grum (talk) 17:31, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- He’s not a side character? He’s the main antagonist of at least two stories and he had a toy. He showed up in more FP SG things than the IDW one has! And putting aside that, it’s never been our policy that “more recent” should take prominence over the original; we’ve always tried to cover all versions, yes, but we also tend to ascribe more prominence to the original versions of characters (for example, the early depictions of Cheetor and Hot Shot tend to get more prominence in the intro over the later more mature ones, even though both are equally prominent), and in these cases, it’s the Fun Pub ones. Escargon (talk) 18:01, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
- When I wrote Blaster’s intro paragraph I felt like there were enough points of commonality—uptight, perfectionist, asshole that even the other Autobots hate— to take a stab at a more unified rewrite. At any rate, and regardless of how you feel about IDWSG, it seems wrong to prioritize the FunPub universe where he’s a side character with a funny accent over the reboot comics where he’s a major character who got an entire issue to himself. Grum (talk) 17:31, 31 October 2022 (EDT)
Main Picture
[edit]The page's second image shows the character much better than the first one. Maybe that should be the top picture instead? Roverlord (talk) 18:25, 1 September 2025 (EDT)