Talk:Soundwave (disambiguation)
The decision to go with GF Soundblaster as a new dude separate from Soundwave wasn't taken lightly, by the way. Yeah, there's the G1 precedent for upgrade, but, well, this isn't G1, and they didn't name this "Soundwave Soundblaster Type" or "Black Version" as is their typical naming scheme for story-less new-deco-same-dude guys outside of the normal retail line. So, till we get soemthing official stating "same dude"... --M Sipher
Clones!
[edit]I don't think the disambig list is correct at the moment, but I'm not sure how to modify it. The G2 A Flash Forward clone and MW Termination clone are listed at the bottom for 2012 and 2013 where they were confirmed as distinct from Soundwave (G1). However, the G2 clone is ALSO listed under 1995 for when the toy was first released, but the MW toy is not listed the same way.
So the question is: Should the disambig list toys of the same name as an existing character under the date the toy was originally released (1994, 1997), or by the date they were confirmed as a separate character (2012, 2013)? I vote the former. --Xaaron (talk) 13:09, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- I vote the latter. The dates should indicate when the character came into being. --KilMichaelMcC (talk) 13:37, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --ItsWalky (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. Escargon (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different toy franchises, not continuity families. So we have Dropshot (G1) / Dropshot (Universe), even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their toy, which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --Xaaron (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --Khajidha (talk) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig list be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --Xaaron (talk) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- The disambig is based on when the character debuts as a demonstrably different character from others. Cryotek was demonstrably different from the get go, these Soundwaves were only differentiated later. As for Soundwave (G2) vs (Wings) or (Timelines), I thought we had decided not to use (Timelines) disambiguators. --Khajidha (talk) 08:30, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- Cryotek has never appeared in RID or any Viron cluster stories, but is listed as Cryotek (RID) because that's his toy franchise of origin. Clone Soundwave is listed as Soundwave (G2) because that's his toy franchise of origin, even though his character first debuted / was split off from the original in a (Wings) or (Timelines) story. Why would the disambig list be based on character debut when the disambigs themselves are based on toy debut? --Xaaron (talk) 08:23, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- I feel that listing these particular characters by toy date is dishonest. Those toys were not released as those characters. They were released as a different, preexisting character. Those characters did not exist until the fiction was released. Agree with Escargon on the Cryotek question. --Khajidha (talk) 07:03, 9 April 2014 (EDT)
- Here's my reasoning: We do disambig pages because characters of the same name exist in different toy franchises, not continuity families. So we have Dropshot (G1) / Dropshot (Universe), even though they both exist in the G1 continuity family, because one is a toy from the original G1 line and the other from the Universe line. Thus, the disambig classifications like (G1) and (Universe) are toy-oriented to begin with, so the disambig page lists should be toy-oriented as well. Listing the Soundwave clones under (2012, 2013) marks the debut of the character in a continuity, whereas listing them under (1994, 1997) would mark the debut of their toy, which would fit more with the disambig concept as we currently apply it. --Xaaron (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- That's different, though. The G2 Gobots had bio's that explicitly stated they were upgrades of G1 dudes, like in Bumblebee and Ironhide's bios. Which makes them distinct from the clones. RID Cryotek didn't have any bio, so there's nothing to contradict. Escargon (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
- So then. RID Cryotek was a 2001 toy, but the character "didn't come into being" until 2002. Are we going to start listing everyone according to when their fiction started versus when their toy came out? --ItsWalky (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2014 (EDT)
I would say the character Cryotek effectively "came into being" when the toy was released, while Clone Soundwave did not. That toy was released as original Soundwave. It represented that character alone for many, many years. Then it was re-purposed. G2 Clone Soundwave, the character, only "came into being" when that re-purposing took place. He should be listed at 2012, not 1995. --KilMichaelMcC (talk) 11:48, 9 April 2014 (EDT)