Talk:Ultra Mammoth

Okay, this was previously a redirect page, because the only incarnation of Mammoth before that was the G1 dude. And even though this new Uprising guy is pretty obviously not the same as the G1 version, this really should've remained a redirect, because honestly the G1 Ultra Mammoth is far more well known than a one off mention in a prose story. Escargon (talk) 21:35, 20 February 2015 (EST)

I kind of think the Ultra Mammoth link should go to the version who doesn't share that name with anyone else much more important with a super long page with Ultra Mammoth information buried somewhere in there maybe. --ItsWalky (talk) 21:43, 20 February 2015 (EST)

Yes, he's only a small bit of the page, but as stupid as it is, it would have to go to the far more prominent version, which just happens to be a G1 guy. The Uprising version would link to 2, maybe 3 pages, as opposed to the version who's appeared in 9 stories, counting the I.Q., Timeless, and the latest Club mag story, and probably has more appearances to come. Escargon (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2015 (EST)

i hope what i've just done helps. i tried to put disambiguation-type stuff on Ultra Magnus (G1), Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys, Ultra Mammoth, and Timeless, and i created redirects pointing Ultra Mammoth (BWSG) and Ultra Mammoth (G1) at Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#Timelines, and redirecting Ultra Mammoth (BW) and Ultra Mammoth (BWU) (Beast Wars: Uprising or Beast Wars Uprising) to Ultra Mammoth. Does that cover all the bases? See also: Talk:Broken Windshields. --Rhymus (talk) 04:34, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Merge with Ultra Magnus

For all the arguing over whether he's at Ultra Mammoth rather than Ultra Mammoth (BWU) or vice-verse... he's a G1 continuity family Ultra Magnus alternate. That's even the whole point of the "Timeless" alternate that supplies the image. If BWU Mammoth was a Maximal rather than a "Builder", that's no more of an origin divergence than G1 cartoon Dinobots vs. Marvel Dinobots. Or Aligned Tantrums. So he doesn't go in the Classicsverse sections of the page with BWSG Mammoth, but in new sections at bottom of the Fiction section. That's all, unless we want to seriously reevaluate what gets a new page generally. - SanityOrMadness (talk) 21:15, 25 February 2015 (EST)

You mean like Optimus Primal and Megatron? -LV (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2015 (EST)

The BW cartoon universe was given a backstory that included Optimus Prime and a pre-existing Megatron/Galvatron as separate characters. BWU includes no "Builder" Magnus to date.

[Now, if you want to talk about RID'15 Grimlock on that basis...] - SanityOrMadness (talk) 21:45, 25 February 2015 (EST)

No Builder Magnus specifically mentioned, yes, but it would be logical to assume, especially considering "other" characters have named themselves after former Builders in this universe (Optimus Minor, Optimus Primal, Megalligator (all of whom DO have an officially mentioned Builder they're named himself after.) Escargon (talk) 22:05, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Know what happens when you assume? There is no canonical Builder Magnus, so Maximal Mammoth is the Magnus of the universe until proven otherwise. Same as all the other versions that have very little in common yet end up on the same page. - SanityOrMadness (talk) 22:20, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Additionally, the very point of that image is NOT alternate versions G1 Magnus, but simply Ultra Magnii throughout the multiverse, because RID Magnus and Animated Magnus are right next to them. Escargon (talk) 22:13, 25 February 2015 (EST)

But this is a G1 continuity family page. Says so at the top. If he ain't G1, then he shouldn't be on the same page as BWU Mammoth... - SanityOrMadness (talk) 22:20, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Because Beast Wars is part of the G1 continuity family. It should have the "Beast Era portion of the Generation 1" continuity family, but it is correct in that a Beast Era character would have that. Escargon (talk) 22:24, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Actually, it's better than that. If we take that the image represents BWU Mammoth (or something sufficiently close) at face value , it would be "...from the TransTech portion..." since he appeared in that "franchise" first! (Dontcha just love the wiki's rules on franchises!)

So, yeah, just as IDW Rattrap or Rhinox - who would qualify as "Builders" in the BWU universe - are on the BW characters' pages, the BWU Magnus counterpart (Mammoth) being a Maximal created for the Builders is entirely plausible... - SanityOrMadness (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2015 (EST)

I don't....what? So he's a Transtech guy and because of IDW Rattrap and Rhinox he's a G1 dude. That...I don't even know what you're trying to accomplish here. Escargon (talk) 22:44, 25 February 2015 (EST)

TransTech. Transtech *is* G1 family ;)

[And this little tangent isn't particularly relevant to the main issue anyway. Points were (1) This version, as the page currently stands, first appeared under TransTech, not BWU. If you look at Help:Style_guide#The_continuity-note, if it was to be expanded from "from the... continuity family" to "from the... portion of the... continuity family", the first-appearance-franchise would be used. Which is TransTech, not Uprising. (2) IDW Rattrap and Rhinox are, in BWU terms, "Builders" rather than Maximal/Predacon-as-a-species, but that doesn't affect them being classed together with the BW versions, so that wouldn't affect Mammoth being a Magnus despite not being a builder.] - SanityOrMadness (talk) 22:59, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Everyone seems to really be jumping the gun on this issue... How about we all wait until more BWU fiction is released, that either confirms or denies Ultra Mammoth's identity? If the story comes to an end and we still have no answer, we can go back to this back-and-forth argument. There's no shame in admitting that we simply don't know all the details for the time being. In the meantime, there's lots of other articles to spend our energy on. --Ascendron (talk) 22:17, 25 February 2015 (EST)

This whole thing seems especially ridiculous when you consider that Ultra Mammoth doesn't even look like the mainpic picture during the course of Broken Windshield... None of the other Maximals or Predacons have beast modes currently, according to all illustrations and written fiction that's come out of BWU up to now. Ultra Mammoth probably transforms into a truck or something... --Ascendron (talk) 22:49, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Man, I love you guys.--Jimsorenson (talk) 22:22, 25 February 2015 (EST)

Yeah, this sort of thing is why you stopped the story to dump a few big lists in, isn't it? - SanityOrMadness (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2015 (EST)

I'm more than happy to chat about why I made the choices I made... but this is not the venue. Feel free to drop by my blog or Facebook page.--Jimsorenson (talk) 23:33, 25 February 2015 (EST)

It's been up for 2 months and nobody else has agreed with it, can we just take down the merge thing now? Escargon (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2015 (EDT)