Talk:Vivisector
Well this should be confusing what with Loud Pedal and all.--Projectus (talk) 20:15, 21 May 2016 (EDT)
- These are two entirely separate characters. The redirect should be deleted. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2016 (EDT)
- If the character concept for both is "black Tracks as a separate (Decepticon) character", why does my it matter that they were created independently of each other? Timelines Ironfist and IDW Ironfist are completely different, but still based on the same idea. --Riptide (talk) 04:05, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- There was already an Ironfist character and name to be added to, so two personalities converged onto one pre-existing page. But there was never a "Black Decepticon Tracks" before, and these two even have different names - we'd be creating an Ironfist situation without one of the chief reasons behind why the Ironfist situation happened. We didn't add Black Starscream to Skywarp's page. We certainly didn't page-merge newly-created Animated Bumblebee or Throttlebot redeco background characters with different names that might have looked alike. We didn't even put Bluestreak (Masterpiece) on the Bluestreak page even though they DO have the same name and look - due to a storyline reason. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 07:38, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Except that Bluestreak was explicitly a separate character from Streak in his bio, since it described him as looking like Streak. And I'm... not really sure what you're talking about with the Animated Bumblebee redecos? Plus, characters have had different names in different countries forever. To me, this seems like a similar situation to the Dreamwave Ultra Magnus and Perceptor clones going on the Delta Magnus and Magnificus pages; it's the same base concept, so in lieu of huge irreconcilable contradictions, they can be considered the same character. --Riptide (talk) 09:37, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Aren't Vivisector and Loud Pedal also explicitly separate characters, though, based on the note in the article? --Dark T Zeratul (talk) 13:18, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- ...No? Like, Blue Bluestreak explicitly exists in the same universe as Streak. He is a different guy. Just because Loud Pedal and Vivisector were created independently of each other doesn't mean that they don't fill the same "black Decepticon Tracks" archetype, which I consider to be enough for them to be the same character. --Riptide (talk) 13:40, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- We're debating which way the article should go. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 13:38, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Shouldn't this discussion wait until a proper bio for Loudpedal is released? If it turns out Loudpedal is a Decepticon science officer, he should definitely stay. If not, it can be discussed at that time. But, since there is nothing more right now than a name and that it is a Black Decepticon Tracks, I think the info we have should stay here for the time being. "SoundJack426 (talk) 13:48, 22 May 2016 (EDT)"
- The LP toy comes out in 3 weeks. If the reveal of the full bio brings a non-matching personality / function to go along with the non-matching name vis-a-vis Vivisector, then I'd be very confused if the articles weren't split. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 15:10, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Shouldn't this discussion wait until a proper bio for Loudpedal is released? If it turns out Loudpedal is a Decepticon science officer, he should definitely stay. If not, it can be discussed at that time. But, since there is nothing more right now than a name and that it is a Black Decepticon Tracks, I think the info we have should stay here for the time being. "SoundJack426 (talk) 13:48, 22 May 2016 (EDT)"
- We're debating which way the article should go. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 13:38, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- ...No? Like, Blue Bluestreak explicitly exists in the same universe as Streak. He is a different guy. Just because Loud Pedal and Vivisector were created independently of each other doesn't mean that they don't fill the same "black Decepticon Tracks" archetype, which I consider to be enough for them to be the same character. --Riptide (talk) 13:40, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Aren't Vivisector and Loud Pedal also explicitly separate characters, though, based on the note in the article? --Dark T Zeratul (talk) 13:18, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- Except that Bluestreak was explicitly a separate character from Streak in his bio, since it described him as looking like Streak. And I'm... not really sure what you're talking about with the Animated Bumblebee redecos? Plus, characters have had different names in different countries forever. To me, this seems like a similar situation to the Dreamwave Ultra Magnus and Perceptor clones going on the Delta Magnus and Magnificus pages; it's the same base concept, so in lieu of huge irreconcilable contradictions, they can be considered the same character. --Riptide (talk) 09:37, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- There was already an Ironfist character and name to be added to, so two personalities converged onto one pre-existing page. But there was never a "Black Decepticon Tracks" before, and these two even have different names - we'd be creating an Ironfist situation without one of the chief reasons behind why the Ironfist situation happened. We didn't add Black Starscream to Skywarp's page. We certainly didn't page-merge newly-created Animated Bumblebee or Throttlebot redeco background characters with different names that might have looked alike. We didn't even put Bluestreak (Masterpiece) on the Bluestreak page even though they DO have the same name and look - due to a storyline reason. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 07:38, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- If the character concept for both is "black Tracks as a separate (Decepticon) character", why does my it matter that they were created independently of each other? Timelines Ironfist and IDW Ironfist are completely different, but still based on the same idea. --Riptide (talk) 04:05, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- We've got characters sharing pages whose US and Japanese names don't match (most of the G1 cast), personalities don't match (Jhiaxus), and whose creators were unaware of a previous appearance (Magnificus/Delta Magnus), so it's down to personal taste how many things have to not match before you consider them separate. Since Delta's page was merged with Dreamwave Powered Convoy's under the logic of "they're both repurposings of the Powered Convoy appearance", I think the two black Trackses can share. --Riptide (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
- The difference there is that the Dreamwave clones had no names, so were essentially blank slates. --Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:42, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
They're two entirely different, separate characters that happened in a short timespan by pure coincidence, a coincidence that will only get MORE common as we run out of pre-TF Diaclone and Microchange color schemes to turn into TFs. They should be separate. --M Sipher (talk) 23:14, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
If the Beast Hunters comics Grimlock can live on a page with Robots in Disguise Grimlock because they're both expansions of the same underlying archetype, or Megazarak and Scorponok because they're based on the same toy even though they have different names and personalities and species, then probably Loud Pedal and Vivisector can as well. I'd like to see the Loud Pedal bio before making a final judgment. --Giggidy (talk) 23:56, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
So basically what your saying is we should wait and see if its a case like the road corp and some of the turbomaster or the aligned grimlock thing before ultimately deciding what to do with this page. that actually sounds perfectly reasonable.--Projectus (talk) 00:12, 23 May 2016 (EDT)
- Though i must admit with the reveal loud pedal has both a decepticon symbol and blue faceplate with red eyes does not help much. too bad it's not as simple as telling the difference between difference between the Finland-exclusive Diaclone Black Corvette Stingray and the Lucky Draw Black Tracks.--Projectus (talk) 02:20, 23 May 2016 (EDT)
BEHOLD: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/1067279-masterpiece-loud-pedal-black-tracks-tokyo-toy-show-exclusive-49.html#post13689413 Loud Pedal has a different name and personality, and should be split off from Vivisector just as surely as Dauros was from Skullgrin. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 22:31, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
- Are there no votes to the contrary? --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 13:01, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
- The tfwiki lumps together all the incarnations of G1 Overlord / Gigatron despite some appearances having a different name, personality and backstory. Not so different to Loudpedal / Vivisector. Bass X0 (talk) 18:47, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
- Overlord was explicitly a relocalized name for the same character. Loudpedal and Visiector are pretty explicitly different character concepts that were conceived independently of each other. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 15:59, 18 June 2016 (EDT)
- Those other Overlords are also explicitly based on the first Overlord character. Loud Pedal/Vivisector are NOT reincarnations of a previous TF character, they are wholly independently-created independent characters based on a non-TF toy that happened by coincidence. --M Sipher (talk) 16:07, 18 June 2016 (EDT)
- Overlord was explicitly a relocalized name for the same character. Loudpedal and Visiector are pretty explicitly different character concepts that were conceived independently of each other. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 15:59, 18 June 2016 (EDT)
- The tfwiki lumps together all the incarnations of G1 Overlord / Gigatron despite some appearances having a different name, personality and backstory. Not so different to Loudpedal / Vivisector. Bass X0 (talk) 18:47, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
Edits
[edit]So, The Toxic Transformer has been edited to change the character's name to Loud Pedal. I guess we move all the Masters and Mayhem stuff over to there and leave the Wreckers stuff here, and add a note saying the name was changed? --Giggidy (talk) 10:07, 3 September 2016 (EDT)
Wait, so...WHY are Loudpedal and Vivisector on different pages from each other? It looks like the nail in the coffin of the original discussion was that musician Loudpedal was given a different personality than science officer Vivisector. But then Fun Pub changed Vivisector's name to Loudpedal in The Toxic Transformer, so the science officer guy is on Loudpedal's page anyway. So it's not a Dauros/Skullgrin thing anymore, it's a Marvel/Sunbow Blaster thing. And Inexorable March made both names interchangeable for the guy. I'd suggest either merging the pages entirely, or putting the Uprising stuff on Loudpedal's page and leaving Vivisector (IDW) separate, like Roulette (Universe) and Roulette (G1). --Xaaron (talk) 09:25, 14 February 2018 (EST)
- Since Fun Pub changed Vivisector to Loudpedal, I'm now of the opinion that they should, in fact, be merged into one page (with appropriate notes regarding these shenanigans). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:37, 14 February 2018 (EST)
