User talk:76.177.107.18
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|}} If you haven't yet contributed anything, we'd really rather you didn't simply change jokes or add new ones without adding actual content. This also holds true for removing captions whole-hog or replacing them with "information" that really isn't. |
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Jokes are all well and fine, but I know most people would rather just have no caption or a blank caption than some juvenile's potty humor or other completely inappropriate comment. Frankly, most of the jokes on the images are fairly pathetic even when they actually manage to not be inappropriate. I would imagine that most, and this includes myself, would rather have the information that is shown on the image's actual page rather than some 12yr old tossing out some 4-chan meme that forces them to have to click on the image if they want any real...information (god, there's that word again...heaven forbid people be looking for that on a wiki ya know?) on what the image is.
The ones I changed, I simply switched the inappropriate joke for the information on the image's page, which therefore added to the value of the main page as a resource of information. This would be considered in most realms as a contribution. If you noticed, I did not simply go through and remove all jokes as I can understand and appreciate that TFwiki likes to have a bit of humor. Jokes of a sexual or otherwise toilet-humor inappropriateness will and should be removed.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- The thing is, we'd prefer people to start making real edits before they start fiddling with captions. And the changes you made weren't very helpful because the information was obvious just from looking at the images. Furthermore, there wasn't anything really offensive that you removed (aside from possibly the pregnant one, but that's not so bad). If you seriously had a problem, you should have discussed it, but even that wouldn't have worked in your favour, as this is a long standing site policy and attempts to get rid of it have been shot down in the past. --NCZ 13:34, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- If you are that upset about how we choose to present information about a TOYLINE and associated CARTOON, perhaps you should go elsewhere and do things your way. I saw nothing offensive about any of the jokes you removed and nothing helpful about the text you put in their places. Most of the images on this wiki (and most other wikis) are superfluous to any need to present visual information, the text covers most of the data quite well on its own. Even when a picture is necessary, its presentation usually gives all the extra data needed so that text is superfluous. For example, having a toy picture next to a toy write up makes it blatantly obvious that this is the toy in question. This means that we can either remove all unnecessary pictures or we can have a little fun with them. We choose to do the latter. --Khajidha 14:29, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Obviously if it's an issue that keeps coming up over and over, then evidently the wrong decision was made or you guys are being a bit too lenient, NCZ. Also the 'discussions' for most items end up just being little more than immature posturing and insulting (I think the fact that the little info box is called -caption bastard- says a lot about how incorrect your views of inappropriate are and the general maturity here). And Khajidha, if you'd paid attention to what I said, I actually agreed with the policy about allowing humor on captions, but the ones I edited, whether you agree or not, were found inappropriate and/or vulgar to myself and several others and were therefore changed. On top of that, most of the ones I changed were also ones that the actual text from the image page was rather informative and/or the image did not completely speak for itself. As you stated, this is about a toyline and a cartoon...I wouldn't want my kids reading some of that crap if they came here looking for info about their favorite toys and characters.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- 1. It's actually dying off now. The problem was that originally, people were confused about how we had a serious wiki with joke images. We don't seem to get that often anymore. 2. Care to provide some specific examples on us insulting, rather than generalizing? 3. If people wanted to know what was happening in the image, they'd just click on the image and read the description. What you're doing isn't helpful, because it just repeats information already stated. That's the reason why we don't use serious captions: because most of the time they are redundant and anyone who can put two and two together can figure out what the image is about. Some of the images may require context, but as stated, curious viewers would just click on the file and read its description. Also, if your kids know about all this "grown-up stuff", then I'm afraid we're not responsible for that since the damage has already been done. And, if they didn't know about it, then they just won't get the joke. Honestly, the captions you removed weren't that bad (I've seen plenty more offensive ones), and I didn't see anyone else discussing those two. --NCZ 16:52, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Because the only arbiter of "maturity" is you, Anonymous? Seems to me that you're just a generic pretentious prude here to waste our time with your subjective ideas of what's inappropriate and "won't anybody think of the children!?" sentiment. —Interrobang 17:44, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- 1. It's actually dying off now. The problem was that originally, people were confused about how we had a serious wiki with joke images. We don't seem to get that often anymore. 2. Care to provide some specific examples on us insulting, rather than generalizing? 3. If people wanted to know what was happening in the image, they'd just click on the image and read the description. What you're doing isn't helpful, because it just repeats information already stated. That's the reason why we don't use serious captions: because most of the time they are redundant and anyone who can put two and two together can figure out what the image is about. Some of the images may require context, but as stated, curious viewers would just click on the file and read its description. Also, if your kids know about all this "grown-up stuff", then I'm afraid we're not responsible for that since the damage has already been done. And, if they didn't know about it, then they just won't get the joke. Honestly, the captions you removed weren't that bad (I've seen plenty more offensive ones), and I didn't see anyone else discussing those two. --NCZ 16:52, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Obviously if it's an issue that keeps coming up over and over, then evidently the wrong decision was made or you guys are being a bit too lenient, NCZ. Also the 'discussions' for most items end up just being little more than immature posturing and insulting (I think the fact that the little info box is called -caption bastard- says a lot about how incorrect your views of inappropriate are and the general maturity here). And Khajidha, if you'd paid attention to what I said, I actually agreed with the policy about allowing humor on captions, but the ones I edited, whether you agree or not, were found inappropriate and/or vulgar to myself and several others and were therefore changed. On top of that, most of the ones I changed were also ones that the actual text from the image page was rather informative and/or the image did not completely speak for itself. As you stated, this is about a toyline and a cartoon...I wouldn't want my kids reading some of that crap if they came here looking for info about their favorite toys and characters.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- 1. I'd imagine it might have more to do with people giving up trying to talk sense or just using regular wikipedia. 2. I already did by pointing out that your 'friendly reminder' is titled as Caption Bastard...I would hope that you can see how that is immature and highly inappropriate. Also Interrobang's reply directly above is another wonderful example...thanks. 3. That may be your opinion, but as a registered and therefore most-likely affluent TFWiki user, you would know a lot of that information without even needing the page itself. The point is supposed to be to provide information for people who do not know it and therefore some of the images might not be as obvious as you think they are. If my changes had been disruptive, misleading, or inappropriate in nature (or even more than just a few items), then I could understand throwing a hissy fit about it. Instead what I changed provided more direct information and removed some inappropriate content. Also, additional to #2 would be your comment regarding what my kids may or may not know, etc. I'm not even sure what you are referring to as 'grown-up stuff', but even if they don't get the punchline of an inappropriate joke, doesn't make that joke suddenly ok for a child to hear or read. Children repeat things even if they don't know what it means at the time. They are more-likely to learn sooner if they are constantly exposed to it. Imagine the chewing out I gave my sister-in-law when her 3yr old daughter came into my house singing Lady Ga-Ga "I wanna take a ride on your disco stick". Sure...in a detached sort of way that is a bit cute/hilarious, but as a responsible parent I cannot ignore how inappropriate it is. Obviously an example like "Jetfire only likes to play multiplayer, not solo, if you know what we mean.", is on the fence, but would be considered harmless since it's an open-ended punchline and not a direct sexual statement.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- If the talk page is any indication, the template's name is a reference to Action Bastard, who is a character from the anime Shin Chan. By "grown-up stuff", I was just referring in a tongue-in-cheek manner to how you removed captions talking about "Christian Rock Albums" and "someone's getting pregnant". Actually, you know, those two really aren't that bad, and I don't think kids would even get the former. Besides, there's plenty of inappropriate content within the actual Transformers fiction that's way worse than those two captions. If we were to continue "protecting the children", we'd have to remove all content related to certain official materials. And once again, what you did with the captions was redundant. In fact, the "kids stand under the green sky" is especially unnecessary because anyone who can see the image can tell they're standing under a green sky. Maybe the one with Prime blocking the cannon needed some explanation, but as stated, one could just click on the image and read its description. --NCZ 18:24, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- I'm confused as to "Hey, it's a Christian Rock Album" is a sexual statement. --abates 18:43, 24 November 2010 (EST) - are you guys really that bored that so many of you have to chime in on this? Also, inappropriate doesn't always mean it is sexual.
- Meh...citing Japanese television as any indication regarding appropriate content is going to fail no matter which side of the discussion you reside on as you are aware. For the kids picture, that's part of the point of a wiki and you can feel free to add more info as to the context of it or what have you...or someone else can, again the point of a wiki. I didn't have anything more descriptive to replace with...perhaps that one should have just been a discussion request to have someone who did have more info change it and remove the current caption, but what's done is done in that regard. Clicking an image for information should really be confined for if a person wants the reference data for the episode #, etc, that the image was taken from, not to find the basic information about what the picture even is to the particular page it is attached to. Sure sometimes what is in an image is fairly obvious, why it may or may not be important to the wiki page it is shown on often is not. Lastly, the standard method to judge whether something is inappropriate or not is if you honestly have to judge it at all, then it is inappropriate.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- I'm an admin - it's my job to chime in. Please read our policy on profanity. Coarse or "inappropriate" language is allowed here so long as it's PG-13. --abates 19:30, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Gotta say that page doesn't help the case if you're using it to defend the template name. Bastard rates as at least a 4 on both Disparagement and Offensiveness on the sensitive language page. It's an insult directed at a man...this means it is intended to offend or show contempt and most people would usually take it as offensive. Though, like many insults, they can be delivered in a jocular manner that isn't serious, but does not dissolve the true intent of the word and therefore would not change the rating. It's quite a bit more than 'shit', 'damn', etc, and even the F bomb's primary usage isn't to insult someone. As far as the chiming in thing, I responded to the person who sent me the inappropriately named template and thereby entered a discussion with NCZ. Since then 3 other people have jumped in randomly so far. Honestly if you are so pent up about someone making some minor adjustment that made a page or two less likely to be found inappropriate/offensive to anyone without negatively altering -any- of the core informational content of the page, just change it back and then you can sit in your little room singing 'na na na...I won the internetz'. It's juvenile and frankly a bit ridiculous, though it does reveal a lot regarding this site in general.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- I just came in to help explain to you. Personally, I think the word "bastard" is becoming diluted because few people really know its true meaning. It's just become a general insult. A somewhat offensive one, but I suppose it's now PG-13 so it stays. And I'm not mad or gloating in the least; I'm just explaining to you why your edits were reverted. And now you've descended to insulting us, so you're just as bad as those you claim are immature. I'm done here. There's really nothing more to be said and to extend this is foolish. One last thing, and sorry if I'm coming off as rude:
- Gotta say that page doesn't help the case if you're using it to defend the template name. Bastard rates as at least a 4 on both Disparagement and Offensiveness on the sensitive language page. It's an insult directed at a man...this means it is intended to offend or show contempt and most people would usually take it as offensive. Though, like many insults, they can be delivered in a jocular manner that isn't serious, but does not dissolve the true intent of the word and therefore would not change the rating. It's quite a bit more than 'shit', 'damn', etc, and even the F bomb's primary usage isn't to insult someone. As far as the chiming in thing, I responded to the person who sent me the inappropriately named template and thereby entered a discussion with NCZ. Since then 3 other people have jumped in randomly so far. Honestly if you are so pent up about someone making some minor adjustment that made a page or two less likely to be found inappropriate/offensive to anyone without negatively altering -any- of the core informational content of the page, just change it back and then you can sit in your little room singing 'na na na...I won the internetz'. It's juvenile and frankly a bit ridiculous, though it does reveal a lot regarding this site in general.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- I'm an admin - it's my job to chime in. Please read our policy on profanity. Coarse or "inappropriate" language is allowed here so long as it's PG-13. --abates 19:30, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- If the talk page is any indication, the template's name is a reference to Action Bastard, who is a character from the anime Shin Chan. By "grown-up stuff", I was just referring in a tongue-in-cheek manner to how you removed captions talking about "Christian Rock Albums" and "someone's getting pregnant". Actually, you know, those two really aren't that bad, and I don't think kids would even get the former. Besides, there's plenty of inappropriate content within the actual Transformers fiction that's way worse than those two captions. If we were to continue "protecting the children", we'd have to remove all content related to certain official materials. And once again, what you did with the captions was redundant. In fact, the "kids stand under the green sky" is especially unnecessary because anyone who can see the image can tell they're standing under a green sky. Maybe the one with Prime blocking the cannon needed some explanation, but as stated, one could just click on the image and read its description. --NCZ 18:24, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- 1. I'd imagine it might have more to do with people giving up trying to talk sense or just using regular wikipedia. 2. I already did by pointing out that your 'friendly reminder' is titled as Caption Bastard...I would hope that you can see how that is immature and highly inappropriate. Also Interrobang's reply directly above is another wonderful example...thanks. 3. That may be your opinion, but as a registered and therefore most-likely affluent TFWiki user, you would know a lot of that information without even needing the page itself. The point is supposed to be to provide information for people who do not know it and therefore some of the images might not be as obvious as you think they are. If my changes had been disruptive, misleading, or inappropriate in nature (or even more than just a few items), then I could understand throwing a hissy fit about it. Instead what I changed provided more direct information and removed some inappropriate content. Also, additional to #2 would be your comment regarding what my kids may or may not know, etc. I'm not even sure what you are referring to as 'grown-up stuff', but even if they don't get the punchline of an inappropriate joke, doesn't make that joke suddenly ok for a child to hear or read. Children repeat things even if they don't know what it means at the time. They are more-likely to learn sooner if they are constantly exposed to it. Imagine the chewing out I gave my sister-in-law when her 3yr old daughter came into my house singing Lady Ga-Ga "I wanna take a ride on your disco stick". Sure...in a detached sort of way that is a bit cute/hilarious, but as a responsible parent I cannot ignore how inappropriate it is. Obviously an example like "Jetfire only likes to play multiplayer, not solo, if you know what we mean.", is on the fence, but would be considered harmless since it's an open-ended punchline and not a direct sexual statement.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
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|}} Please sign your posts to Talk pages. It's easy. Just type four tildes (~~~~), then click Show Preview, and the wiki software will automatically fill in your name and a datestamp. Signed posts make it much easier to keep track of who said what, and when. Also, if you don't do this, you risk having your posts removed entirely.
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--NCZ 22:43, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- The Austin Powers movies which are PG13 contain a character named "Fat Bastard", though for the record I was not attempting to defend the template name, just the picture captions. --abates 22:50, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- I just figured the template's parents were unwed. -- Semysane 23:41, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Actually that was a nuance of the wiki I wasn't aware NCZ and have post-corrected my comments (though I know that doesn't give the correct timestamps at this point) so no, I don't think that was rude of you and honestly I've had no problems with debating with you personally and apologize if you inferred my previous remark as such. Abates, Austin Powers...and appropriate content are about the furthest two ends of the spectrum possible, though I may love the movies personally.76.177.107.18 23:49, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- Hey, are you Yzz, Master of DOOM, from Teletraan 1? If not, you two should seriously make out. -- Semysane 23:53, 24 November 2010 (EST)
- The Austin Powers movies which are PG13 contain a character named "Fat Bastard", though for the record I was not attempting to defend the template name, just the picture captions. --abates 22:50, 24 November 2010 (EST)
tl;dr —Interrobang 03:31, 25 November 2010 (EST)
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