User talk:Drmick

Hi, when we upload images, we have to use copyright tags if the images are owned by somebody else.

For comic covers:
{{comiccover}}

For interiors:
{{comicinterior}}

For general-purpose Hasbro/TakaraTomy + affiliated companies-owned images such as character art or stock toy photography:
{{hastak}}

And for photos not owned by Hasbro/TakaraTomy but falls under US fair use laws:
{{fairuse}}

You also need to credit the artists involved if it's some sort of comic or book art, if known. If you don't know, then say something like 'Art by: Unknown' or something. Artists should be credited individually as Pencillers, inkers, colourists and letterers.

It is also preferrable to mention and Wikilink the name of the issue as well as the number, since "TF UK No. 229" is fairly meaningless. Also preferrable to Wikilink names of major characters or whatever if you mentioned them in the description.

Thanks. --FFN 17:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, nowadays we try to avoid using comic covers inside the fiction sections of characters. We prefer comic panels. --FFN 17:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

As you probably have deduced, I'm new to the whole wiki thing. As such, i honestly have little clue as to what all that means. I'm just trying to help out. The Star Trek Wikia wiki is just like an encyclopedia. Unfortunately this Tf one is nowhere near the same reference quality. I might be safer just giving up.Drmick 17:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait, did you just diss us? --FFN 18:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The image requirements that FFN specified stem from a desire to improve this wiki both as a reference document, and in its respect for the intellectual property of others. If you find the rules onerous or confusing, we apologize, but it would take a lot of convincing to change our minds about them.

If you find that the humor in this wiki detracts from its quality as a reference, we can only say that we disagree.

If you would like to stay and help, the best way to learn how things are done is to look at existing pages (including image pages), click on the edit link, and see what the page looks like "behind the scenes". Failing that, consult the help pages, or ask for help here or in the community portal. JW 18:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't diss the people involved, it is obvious that tons of work has been put in. But compared to works like the Star Trek and Marvel Database wikia (which try to emulate their paper equivalents) Teletraan 1 does not compare (in style). If you wanted to create a Transformers printed encyclopedia, you could not simply cut and paste this wiki, whereas you could do so with the two I mentioned. Sure, most of the information you would need is here, but it would need re-wriiten from scratch (to remove the amateur humour and speculative nature of a lot of the articles). Whereas he TRek and MArvel ones stick to canon, the TF one uses the profile books as a major source, rightly or wrongly. Much like a kid that gets picked last for the team, I am more disapponted that the TF fandom don't seem to share my preferences for how a Transformers reference work should be organised. Drmick 09:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

What is canon? If you pick and choose what is canon, then that's Personal canon. For Transformers, Everything is Canon.

As for speculation, weren't you yourself speculating about Spinister? --FFN 11:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. See, that's your problem. Star Trek and Marvel have clearly defined canon. Transformers does not. Everything is canon unto itself, and sometimes different media might fit into the same canon. Profile books are canon, just like everything authorized by Hasbro is canon. The only question is: "Canon for what?"

And yes, we don't share your preferences for how we should run our Wiki.--Nevermore 12:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

FFN's point is key. In Trek in particular, things like the Star Trek Encyclopedia are not as canonical as the actual TV show. For Transformers, however, the profile books have equal canonicity with the comics and such.

As for style, fundamentally, taking Transformers (or Trek or Marvel for that matter) too seriously really misses the point. TF is not a life-or-death issue. The rise and fall of TF does not determine the fate of nations. TF consists of toys mostly bought by kids and fiction created to sell toys. Writing about it in a dead-serious encyclopedic style does not suddenly make it important. We tend to believe that people who stop having fun with their fannish obsessions have, well, stopped having fun. That's especially true with TF which, let's be honest, is often pretty darn silly. Ergo, while priority 1 for this wiki is to provide the facts, priority 2 is to continue to have fun. To, metaphorically speaking, take the toys out of the box and play with 'em.

Anyway. To return to the original point on this page, do you need any help with the image uploading rules? JW 12:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The only TF stories that are actually canonical are the Kids Stuff storybooks. We just put all this other crap in the wiki so Furman and Forward and Dille and etc. don't get their feelings hurt. -hx 13:16, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

And yet, our wiki's been lauded by official Star Wars web gurus and Wookiepedia folks specifically because of the humor and "no neutral POV" approach, never mind the TF fandom's support. I think I'll take that anyday over TF IS SERIOUS BIDNESS!!! (And yes, TFs has not got a Canon Decider lording over it saying What Does Not Count. and I'm glad for it.) --M Sipher 15:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, ok. I'll try to scan some colour pics of the Hunting Party-Where Wolf strip. I have the final UK annual, which has all that story in colour, and is reasonably rare I believe. But I still don't understand all the different types of brackets stuff at the top of the page. Do I need to put the words comicinterior into the filename between the curly brackets? Do I need to edit indivdual panels before I upload them?Drmick 15:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying. The copyright tags (the curly bracket words) and the credits are only entered into the image description. If in doubt, check how other people have uploaded images. Here's one I prepared earlier. Click edit and see what I did. --FFN 15:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, cheers, I see now. The comicinerior in the curly brackets produces a big box talkng about copyright. This box is then present on the image upload page, but not in any article which uses the image. I made a custom modern day spinister using Transformers Energon Bulkhead (or Superlink Sprang), with some paint, and a bit of putty for the "mask". It looks cool. Are we allowed to upload customs if relevant? Drmick 16:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, no. We only deal with officially Hasbro authorised/licensed stuff. The only toy photos you can upload are photos of real, unmodified Transformers toys. There are exceptions, such as articles about bootleg and knock-off toys. --FFN 16:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

He could still upload a shot of the custom if he used it as his User page image, couldn't he?--Apcog 17:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but only for his user page, and I don't believe he can link his user page at Spinister's article. --FFN 02:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone else edit my userpage?  :) I notice some character pages have either profile artwork, or box-art. Any particular reason why they should not have both? Drmick 12:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, anybody can, but out of common courtesy normally only the owner of the user page should edit their user page. Admins can step in if they find something offensive or rule-breaking, of course.

As for artwork, we use whatever looks good or is available to use. So long as the image is official artwork, we use it. We don't normally use both boxart and profile art (or whatever) at the same time because it would clutter up the page, and we would rather the Fiction sections show images of the character participating in adventures and such. --FFN 13:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I created (amateurish) userpage with photos of my custom. Let me know what you guys think? You've been a great help so far. Drmick 14:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I think you are way over the one allowed user pic --FortMax 23:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, choose one image to keep, then request the admins to {{delete}} the others. --FFN 05:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Can I link to the pics then? Drmick 19:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Upload them to Photobucket or Image Shack if you don't have your own website, and link to them using this:

[http://www.IMAGE URL image description]. An external link to the Prime image on the main page would look like [http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/8/86/G1_movie_primal.png Prime, Prime and Primal], and the link would be like this: Prime, Prime and Primal --FortMax 19:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Just some advice: When you upload images, it is now preferable to link the names of the characters involved (if you mentioned them in the description), link the story or episode it came from, and if it's art, linking the names of the artists involved. Oh, we also recently decided to credit the penciller as 'penciller' instead of just 'artist' or 'art by', since the other two people involved are also artists. Thanks :) -- FFN in class

Ok, will do. Btw, is there a discussion forum for this wiki anywhere? I seem to have broken several rules here, sorry bout that. Is there a small-print rulebook somewhere with all the tips you guys have given me? (E.g penciller instead of artist etc)

Homage

First of all,

{{#if: LOLprowl-sm.gif | | }} {{ #if: Stillness... then strike! |Stillness... then strike! |}} Please use the Preview button when making numerous small changes to a single page, using "Save page" only after all your changes are made. This way, you don't clutter the Recent Changes page with a ton of tiny little edits. {{ #if: |{{ #if: |  | }} talk page.|}} {{#if: ||}}

{{#ifeq: User talk||}}{{#ifeq: User talk|File|}}

Second, you're throwing up a ton of stuff that are not homages. Classics Thrust is not an homage, he's an update. A character cannot be an homage to themselves. --M Sipher 15:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Er, sorry about the changes thing. Will just preview til the end. Regarding the whole homage thing, yeah, we've had this conversation, check out the discussion on the homage page. Personally I think people are being quite literal, so I'll probably rename the page when near finished and put it out there. Drmick 15:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree 100% with Jackpot on the matter. A page dedicated to every character who has ever had an updated form and/or homage, complete with pictures, is beyond ridiculous, well beyond any point of being useful. Especially if you're going to water down the word "homage" to the point of meaninglessness by including toys who are canonically the same characters as past toys. You might as well just look up that character's individual page, as their Toy sections should list every updated toy-form, and their Trivia sections should list homage characters (and vice-versa; homage-character pages should list who they are homages of).

And "minor changes" doesn't really help, as a great many things are marked "minor changes" that need correcting. Hell, even HUGE changes are for some reason marked "minor" often enough. --M Sipher 17:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I might recommend marking all changes to a sandbox page as "minor changes". This way people can choose to ignore them when looking at recent changes to the wiki. JW 15:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Okey dokes Drmick 15:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

"You might as well just look up that character's individual page, as their Toy sections should list every updated toy-form, and their Trivia sections should list homage characters (and vice-versa; homage-character pages should list who they are homages of)." Most character pages, but not all, do mention the newer toys, but can ignore the Japanese equivalent (e.g Superlink Sprang and Laserwave). Plus not all of them have pics on the wiki, none that i can find anyhow. Energon Bulkhead is missing, as are most Japanese versions, which can often be subtly but signficantly different (eg Galaxy Force Ramble, Henkai Classics Megatron etc)

As to being pointless, I obviously disagree on this matter, and would on any matter where a reference/encyclopedia work sets out to describe every/most examples of something (e.g a list of every X-man on the Marvel wiki, or every Starship on the Star Trek wiki). Drmick 17:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Universe Getaway

Huh? There's no Universe Getaway (or Breakaway). The trivia on Breakaway (Movie) states that originally that the redeco trio was destined for Universe, but were instead released in the Movie line. --FFN 13:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Oops, my apologies. Nice toy, will add it to my "homage" sandbox :) Drmick 18:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, your correction shows how I could do with some help on my homage page. If it wasn't for your correction, I would have been waiting a loooonnnnnng time for somebody to upload an image of Universe Getaway! And now as a result I have discovered (hitherto completely unknown to me) modern Alpha Trion, Crankcase and Doubledealer equivalents/homages. Drmick 19:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Remy's pics

We're trying to cut down on our usage of pics from Remy's site (or indeed any other fansite), since he doesn't like other sites using his stuff. Hasbro/Takara stock photos, or even better, one's own photos are preferable, for even if you gain permission to use photos by somebody else, the owner has the right to revoke it later. --FFN 13:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, that should be included in the image policy then? i.e a list of specific sites where we should not take from (e.g Remy) and a list of sites we could ake from (e.g. ????).

Also, where can we get the official images from? I notice ou have uploaded some. Drmick 14:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly we've cited Remy's site as an example of the photography standards we would like for toy pics, but point out that it was only an example, and that we shouldn't swipe pics without asking for permission to use them here.

TFW2005's Hasbro photo archive is probably the best place for a (mostly) complete archive of Hasbro stock photos of the past 6-7 years, and we can use the hell out of them since Hasbro/Takara own them. However, if the only available Hasbro photo is badly posed or badly mistransformed, we should wait for Walky or somebody to take a photo of their own toys, or proceed with asking other sites for permission to use photos they own. --FFN 15:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

That link is really useful, thanks. It should be put in the image policy page. Drmick 15:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Done, thanks for reminding me. Hopefully it won't be a waste since 2005's server is still not stable, it seems. --FFN 14:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)