Editing Talk:Insignia

__TOC__

There's such an AWESOME buried assumption in a section called 'Known Faction Symbols.'  This whole idea that there are UNKNOWN faction symbols too.  The idea that there is a BODY to this story beyond what's been written, the idea that it has a form BEFORE it's written... is facinating. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel the Transtech faction symbols belong here. The line never happened. The events after BM have been well established- Transtech was not it. TFU stupidity aside- they are not all Autobots and Decepticons now.

And I have to ask- there was an Arachnoid faction-symbol?

Yea there was a screencap in Lone Maximal's faction symble thread b4 the allspark went down. [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 15:27, 4 April 2006 (PDT)


I think it's fine to include them, just with an info note that they're unused. 

Speaking of rare symbols I really want the 5 Predacon symbols from IDW Beast Wars to be up here too, but should they go under BW PRedacon or be their own thing?

Also there should be pics of both the regular Con symbol and the three-pointed Cartoon version.

Oh and we should look through DW/IDW art to see if there are any other unnamed symbols there on buildings or anything. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Do we want to include pics of the diffrent variations of the faction cymbols that appeared on the toy packageing? I have the symbols from the top of the old Tech Spec archive saved on my PC and found images for the Blendtron and Commando symbols. I don't have the Cybertron symbols though.--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like both, frankly. My source for the G2 Autobot is distressingly low-resolution (I consider anythign under 400px wide low reolution) and I'm not entiely sure my blendtron synbol is 100% right. (there 1 or two edges I couldnt' tell if they were suppsoed to be rounded or squared off.)-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The G2 Decepticon symbol looks nothing whatsoever like Clench besides sharing that diamond-shaped forehead crest, and it's missing arguably the most distinguishing feature of Clench's face - the triangular (point-up) mouthplate. In my opinion, the G2 symbol is clearly a stylized version of the G1 Decepticon symbol. Similarly, there is essentially no similarity between the G2 Autobot symbol and Pyro - the G2 Autobot symbol couldn't much more clearly be Optimus Prime.

Also, why is the CR Combatron insignia under "Beast Era"? `[[User:LV|LV]] 17:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


I'd need to go back to my G2 issues to check, but I question the validity of suggesting that the G2 Decepticon and Cybertronian symbols are any different. (The only distinction shown here is color, anyway) I also question the simplified versions of the symbols used in the cartoon as "symbols" in their own right, but it seems that I've already been outvoted on that count. The only thing I ''would'' ask for is some source text, especially for the more obscure symbols. If they're going to be here, we need to know where they come from.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)



Oh, and I totally disagree with the note that the G1 Decepticon symbol is based on Soundwave. This is a myth that has perpetuated for years, but has no basis in fact.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
: Well, technically, it's based on the Decepticon symbol looking just like Soundwave's toy head. But the note is gone for the moment. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
::Walky, I know you've got a good eye. Maybe you're seeing something I don't. But that's just it. To me, Soundwave's toy's head looks NOTHING like the Decepticon symbol. I've seen folks say this for years, but I'm just not seeing it....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 22:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
:::http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/itswalky/soundwavedecepticonsymbol.jpg
:::There's some obvious correlation here. But nothing I can say with absolute certainty, so the note is down until further notice. But, damn, the Decepticon symbol does look like it was based on an abstraction of Soundwave's noggin. The crest, the horns, the shape of the face, everything. I think Soundwave's cartoon face is distracting you.  --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
::::No, I'm thinking toy-face. (Thanks for the side-by-side, incidentally). Still, I don't think I'd say the Decepticon symbol is "based on" Soundwave, any more than I'd say that there's a generic similarity of shape. But we're mincing minutia at this point. Thanks for indulging me.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::I believe Floro Dery mentioned in an interview that the faction symbols were based on abstractions of faces done by another artist. I also put it to you that the Autobot insignia is probably an abstraction of Prowl's toy face. Unfortunately we have no CONCRETE evidence for the sources of the insignias -- other than Dery's comments. --[[User:Jhiaxus|Jhiaxus]] 11:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no "Seacon space pirate" sigil. A comical skull-and-crossbones on the sail does not a sigil make. The toy packaging gives them the same purple insect-head Predacon sigil every other badguy in the series gets. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, someoen put the Blendtron symbol under Unicron in G1. When was the Blendtron symbol used outside of Neo? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

E-hobby Overcharge [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 02:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
:But didn't we decide to default to the line of origin unless there was a commanding reason to use another? Also, we tend not to link things multiple times in the same article, so I see no reason why the Blendtron symbol should show up twice here. Methinks someone's been more than a tad overzealous....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

==Shattered Glass Nightbeat's Symbol==
If we have a section for the Shattered Glass faction symbols, shouldn't Nightbeat's be there, too? I know he's an (evil) Autobot, but he has that unique Autobot logo with the dagger on his hood. 

==Article title==

I recently moved this article to correct the second capitalized word. However, I am unsure as to whether to move it again and remove the plural. Most article names are singular, even for something like [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]. However, one of the points of this article is to describe and show many faction symbols. This sort of implies a plural title to me. So... I'm conflicted. Does anybody have an opinion? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 22:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that if this were an article describing the general signifigance of a faction symbol, that might be appropriate. But this is a list of Faction Symbols. The list is inherenly plural, there's like 30 of 'em. 'Faction Symbol,' describing the role and importance of saction symbols in general might be a seperate article- this is a list. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

==The 5 Predacon symbols==
I want to add the 5 symbols from IDW Beast Wars, but I have a concern. There is no cannonical evidence that they are actually faction symbols. We never see anyone useing them. Right now, the only thing we know about them is that they were used as wall decoration. 

Or do we just assume they ''are'' faction symbols? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 15:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:Add them. If we decide they go somewhere else (and I think they probably do, likely the Predacon faction page, or maybe the Predacon sub-group, I dunno...) we'll move them.
:Reminder, you can find the rest of... uh.... Ramhorn's partially obscurred symbol in the pencil-sketch previews to Beast Wars #1 that appeared in Infiltration. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
::Headstrong. Ramhorn is the Autobot rhino cassette. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:::The exception that prooves the rule. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
::::....what? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 01:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==The 5 Predacon symbols - Whoopsie...wrong file names guys==
Two of these emblems were switched. Razorclaw and Rampage's emblems were assigned to the wrong name. I've fixed this in the actual gallery of the emblems with an edit, but the names of the images are still swapped.[[User:Sidecutter|Sidecutter]]
:Why the heck would Rampage's emblem sport a mane and Razorclaw's not sport a mane? The comic they appear in even show Razorclaw's maned symbol as being the most prominently displayed. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 15:31, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
::If you actualy look at the emblems being displayed, that was exactly my point, but someone has made it incorrect again. Razorclaw's orange, maned symbol that matches his beast head is listed with *Rampage's* name. Rampage's red, non-maned symbol, which matches his beast head, is listed with *Razorclaw's* name. The symbols also have the wrong file names, with Razroclaw's symbol named "Rampage Symbol.png" and Rampage's symbol named "Razorclaw Symbol.png". Here is how it was displayed before I fixed it the first time, and this time: 
::Now as far as I know (I may simply not know how), I can't change the file names. Therefore, I can't fix it that way. But if you look at the page now that I've corrected the gallery again, you'll see that even though the filenames appear "wrong" when you look at the list to edit it, the pictures are actually correct now.[[User:Sidecutter|Sidecutter]] 16:09, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::It looks to me that the red one is the guy with a mane. The yellow one doesn't look like it has a mane. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:19, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::I don't see how you can see it that way. The shapes of the faces are wrong for the supposed character they represent. The color of each one is also matched to the character it should be (orange/yellow for Razorclaw's beast head, red for Rampage's). Compare each emblem to the toy on TFU.info and it's very clear that the filenames on these are wrong. http://www.tfu.info/1986/Decepticon/Razorclaw/razorclaw.htm http://www.tfu.info/1986/Decepticon/Rampage/rampage.htm [[User:Sidecutter|Sidecutter]] 16:23, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::I've also just gone through the trade to see the originals. The red one shown there might be more feasible as Razorclaw, if still the wrong color. However, if that is the case, the rendition we have here is a very bad one, because the shapes of the symbol parts and the proportions of each part are WAY off from the comic. It's a much narrower symbol here. [[User:Sidecutter|Sidecutter]] 16:44, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::I've definitely gotta go with Sidecutter here, the orange one is definitely the one with a mane. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:51, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::I'm with Walky, the yellow one has cheek tufts NOT a mane. Thus it is a tiger. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:52, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Yes, also with Walky. The red one is the one with a mane, I don't know how you can look at it any other way. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:54, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::::But Rampage doesn't even HAVE cheek tufts. Also, his beast-mode head is red. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:56, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::What does the color have to do with it? Divebomb isn't purple. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:57, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Doesn't change the fact that Rampage doesn't have cheek tufts. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 17:05, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::None of them look exactly like the symbols. They are stylized versions of the animals, not the toys. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 17:14, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::Razorclaw looks nearly EXACTLY like the orange symbol. Seriously, have a look at it and his beast-mode head. I honestly don't see how it could be anyone else. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 17:20, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Really? The orange one doesn't say "lion" to me. I think the main problem is the red logo doesn't really look like a lion or a tiger. I'm not sure what that's supposed to be. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:09, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I see what you're saying now about the orange one looking like Razorclaw - but that's because you're looking at the two points at the top of the head as if they're the corners of the toy's mane, when they're ''ears''. It's not supposed to look like the toy, it's supposed to look like the ''animal''. The red one's sporting an all-around mane, not one broken up into mechanical toyetic points and chunks. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:25, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::Don't tell me what I'm looking at the ears as. At no point did I think they were anything other than ears. And the red one has nothing even remotely resembling a mane. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:03, 28 September 2010 (EDT)
I'd have to dig out the issue in question, but I'm not sure if I remember them ''being'' in color.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:09, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:They are in color. I didn't pay much attention to the colors of the other three, but the two being debated are in the colors shown here (or a close variant, allowing for lighting, etc).[[User:Sidecutter|Sidecutter]] 18:15, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

==Miscellaneous issues==
===Robots in Diguise Commando===
When was that term used? What's the difference between a RiD Commando and a RiD Decepticon?

::I'm assuing this is a placeholder spot for the Car Robots Destronger symbol, which was a green, upside-down G2 Autobot sigil. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

===Bot/Con Symbols in RiD/UT sections?===
Should the Autobot and Decepticon (and Predacon in RiD) symbols also be listed in the Robots in Disguise amd Unicron Trilogy sections? It might be misleading if only unique symbols are listed in those sections. "Are Minicons and Powerlinx the only factions in the Unicron Trilogy?"
===Organization===
The G1 section seems to be vaguely organized chronologically, but Beast Wars doesn't make sense to me. Since certain chronological listings might be debatable (Ancient Autobot and Ancient Transformer: who comes first, etc), I propose to make each section alphabetical.<br>
Generation 1<br>
Autobot<br>
Autobot (Ancient)<br>
Autobot (The War Within)<br>
Decepticon<br>
etc.

Also, why does G2 get a seperate sction, but Beast Machines does not?

===''Factions''?===
There is no basis for calling the five IDW Beast Wars symbols "factions", and the Energon Powerlinx symbols are not factions. But I want to keep a page with all these symbols. Rename article to just "Symbols"? Or maybe that would open it up too much. Just a rambling thought.

Don't want to make any changes without talking about it. Thanks for listening. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 01:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
--[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 01:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:I think it's fine titled "faction symbols" but also inlcuding symbols that aren't strictly of "factions," with appropriate notations about whether a symbol is a variant of a faction symbol or just something faction symbol-esque that's close enough for inclusion, etc. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 01:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::They might move if we get enough other signage and symbols. (We have, for instance, two seperate Cybertronian medical symbols, one Autobot and one Decepticon.)
::You mgith argue that if we have a page liek thism we maybe should have a much-clearer 'factions' page that, as Crockcrikey suggests, list which factions appear in which series, makign this page just abouth the SYMBOLS. As it's it's kinda dual-purpose, providing quick bio's about the faction in addition to the symbols and variants themselves. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
::In that case, where should things like, say, Sideways's split-down-the-middle insignia from his packaging and the Maximal/Vehicon blend found on the Beast Changer toy go, if anywhere at all? On the other hand, if it stays here and keeps gathering up symbols that aren't strictly "faction" symbols, somebody ought to add the planet symbols from Cybertron/Galaxy force--[[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] 22:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

== Um, guys, you forgot something... ==

Not to be a nudge, but the normal G1 Decepticon symbol isn't actually pictured in the article anywhere except in the pic that has it inserted in the cobra insignia. Also, a pic of the "three-pointed" cartoon version might help in showing exactly where the difference lies. --[[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] 22:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Anyone going to throw in Dreamwave's alternate Unicron faction symbol? I remember it being used for the MTMTE profiles for Nemesis Prime and maybe Sideways, although I don't have it on hand. I feel that it's required.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

==Team Ironhide==
Dunno if we want to include this, since it's just an abstraction of Energon Ironhide's head, but there's a good shot of it [http://www.fantofan.jp/news/video/superlink456.JPG here]. Plus, [http://www.fantofan.jp/news/video/superlink4510.JPG here] and [http://www.fantofan.jp/news/video/superlink444.JPG here]. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

==Planet symbols...==
I'm... not really sure about these as "faction symbols". I dunno. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

:See the discussion above ("'''''Factions''?'''") for more input on the inclusion of non-faction symbols. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 16:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

::I think the consensus was- "Wait until we have anough non-faction symbols here to justify splittign them off into their own page." We're getting close, but that'll necessitate a long, unpleasant discussion about what is and isn't a faction symbol. (For instance, I think the IDW Quint symbol is the US Quint faction symbol- just like we have American and Japanese Unicron-allied symbols.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

:::IDW Quint symbol? I hope you don't mind me asking where that's shown, out of curiousity. -[[User:Tindalos|Tindalos]] 19:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

== Hmm... ==

[[Image:Optimus symbol.png|100px]] [[Image:Maximal symbol.png|100px]]

...probably just my imagination. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 16:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

== G1 "Cartoon" vs "Comic" symbols ==
OK, time for an opinion poll: Should there be pix of both the "Cartoon" and "Comic" versions of the G1 Bot & Con symbols? I would say so, and several of you expressed the same opinion in the above discussions. Earlier today I added the cartoon Bot symbol and the comic Con symbol thereby completing the "pairs", but not soon after, the comic versions were removed. I have since replaced them, not to rebuff that editor, but based on the reasoning that if we can have five different colored Powerlinx symbols (?!), why would we '''not''' have both distinct variations of the two '''''main''''' symbols. Thoughts, anyone?  [[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 03:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:Well, your cartoon Decepticon symbol doesn't look like the cartoon Decepticon symbol, for one. I'm guessing that was part of the cause for the reversion. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

::Indeed. There are different Powerlinx symbols depicted because those are all legitimately distinct symbols which were intended to be legitimately distinct symbols, and they all *mean different things*. The Autobot/Decepticon symbols in the cartoon/comic/toyline are all the same symbol but rendered differently due to media format. We are NOT going to have separate entries for every single mis-render of the same symbol design. That's absurd. 
::As Derik pointed out, what you had uploaded wasn't even the "cartoon versions" of those symbols! Those are just the fancy painted versions thereof that were on toy packages, some Marvel Comics covers, and, of course, the toys. I reworked all of that because it was ''inaccurate.'' --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:::It ''might'' be reasonable to include the cartoon version of the Decepticon symbol, since it had the whole triple-point deal going. But as far as I know there's no equivalent variation in the Autobot symbol. And, as stated, the painted Decepticon symbol is '''NOT''' the cartoon's variant Decepticon symbol. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 14:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

::::Well thank you for pointing out how "absurd" my reasoning is Walky, its certainly more informative than your previous Post Summary of "Argh". I think some clarification may be needed, as there seems to be confusion (very possibly on my part). 
::::This is one of the two images I posted: 
::::[[Image:symbol_autobot_dx_edit.jpg|40px]]Is this what you all would deem "cartoon" or "comic"? Or if neither, why?
::::[[Image:symbol_decept_reg.png|35px]] This is the other image I posted. Cartoon? Comic? Neither?
::::Seeing as how I posted one version of the Bot symbol and the OTHER version of the Con symbol (the two that were missing at the time), how can I be wrong in both cases?

::::And just for the record, when I re-posted what I perceive to be the "comic" versions, I replaced [[Image:Autobot symbol.png|40px]] (which was what was previously posted), with [[Image:Symbol_autobot_reg.png|40px]], simply because I thought it looked nicer. [[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 15:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

::::: That first Autobot symbol only appeared on Hasbro packaging from '84 to '86, Japanese packaging, cartoon scene bumpers, and some comic covers. The Decepticon symbol in the cartoon generally had a 3rd spike on the center top piece due to the beveling on the "packaging" symbol being misinterpreted. We're not going to have a picture of every interpertation of every symbol, lest we have a pic of the changes the packaging symbol when through in the G1 line, the different color borders in G2, the slightly different shapes from RID, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Classics, and the movie. Diffrent styles does not equal a new faction symbol. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 16:21, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:::::Also, that white-border Autobot sigil looks blurry. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 16:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

::::::Blurry, eh? I thought it was just my contacts. =) I agree that variation does not a new symbol make, but to me it seemed significant to show the two '''distinctly''' different "variations" of these two symbols. (And I'm not talking about "third point crest cartoon" version, or what have you.) The 3-D, glossy, transition-color "deluxe-looking" (if you will) version appearing on packaging, toon bumpers, etc to my knowledge (and i'm sure someone will correct me if im wrong) was never used on an actual '''figure''', nor did characters in the comics and/or cartoon bear sigils with this appearance. It more or less had media-only usage, correct? In contrast, the 2-D, matte, solid-color "plain-looking" version was the type used on the toys, as well as typically being seen on animated/drawn characters.

::::::Was there ever melding of these two styles? A 3-D glossy symbol with solid colors? or a 2-D matte symbol that transitioned in color? If there was, then I humbly retract my previous ramblings and apologize to the community at large (especially Walky, who seems keen on shooting down whatever i do anyway. And yes, I am aware of the differences between the powerlink colors, but I think my point has validity nonetheless). In any event i do admit to being confused as to exaclty what the "cartoon version" of the Con symbol was in reference to (thank you FortMax). =P

:::::::But if I am correct in saying that there is a '''''measure of deliniation''''' between these two styles, and not just a simple case of "variation" (which is essentially what the "three point crest" is, and you guys seem to think that's worthy of mention), then at the very least I think they should be shown as a footnote of some type to the page, perhaps following the Unused symbols. [[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 18:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

::::::All of the G1 merchandise that had a symbol not taken from boxart used the logo symbols. The one exception is the marvel US comics, but that was due to the low-tech printing methods used. Plus, whatever the border shaps or solidness of the color, it's still recognizable as the Autobot symbol. The only time we would need a cartoon version on this page is when said sigil only appears in the cartoon. Plus, the only fictional apperences of the package style sigils (that I know of) are in scene bumpers, commercial bumpers, and titles, none of which actually happen in-universe, and the solid colored symbol appeared on the toys before the cartoon or comics were released.

:An example of the cartoon Decepticon symbol might be a good idea though. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

== TWW Predacon and LSC symbols ==

Did the TWW Predacons (Starscream's group) or the Lightning Strike Coalition (Grimlocks group) have their own faction symbols? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
: Not that I'm aware of. And they both continue to wear their respective Con/Bot logos on themselves. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
::Although I'm pretty sure they've started being the standard symbols instead of the TWW ones by then. -[[User:LV|LV]] 01:00, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

== Ancient Transformer Symbol ==


Ok, whoever called shannanigans, explain your objection... I admit It's been a long time since I've looked at some DW issues but the Anceint unified faction bit seems to jive with what I remember being said. Anyone who's looked at things recently clarrify? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
:The ancient faction symbol appeared on the Vector Sigma room, the Archives (IIRC) and the golden Disk room on Paradron. It's ''ancient'', and it has nothing to do with Shockwave. Shockwave welded a blank plate over his faction symbol- he didn't create a new hybrid symbol. There ''was'' no Hybrid symbol for Shockwav'es reign on Cybertron.
:So in short, the nature of my objection is... it's wrong. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

::So, uh... fix it? Why call shenanigans instead? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
:::'cuz I didn't want to be the one to fix it, being next-deep in other edits at the time. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:32, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

== Change page title to "Insignia"? ==

This page hasn't really ever been limited to faction symbols, so I think a move is in order. Anyone disagree? [[User:Chip|Chip]] 02:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
:Disagree, because how would I ever find it then? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:48, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
:: DEAR GOD, CHANGE IT NOW. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

::: :~( -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

:: It would unfortunately redirect. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 03:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

==Ancient Decepticon and BWII Seacons==

"Ancient Decepticon" has been here a long time with no symbol. Does an ancient Decepticon symbol exist? Also, yea or nay on BWII Seacons symbol? (Unless someone can find a better image of [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Seacons_bw.jpg that flag], it's moot anyway.) --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 20:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
:I think someone had a seacon skull up at one point- or at least there was a discussion about its variations...
:I've removed ancient decepticon- AFAIK, that's a relic of an unofficial reprolabel set that decided Shockwave's funky symbol was the counterpart of the ancient Autobot symbol- in defiance of all context. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
===That picture isn't even the right symbol===
From the BWII movie
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9069/spacepirateseaconsignalao1.jpg - 85.195.123.24 20:50, 22 May 2007

:::Ooh, that's '''much''' clearer than the VCD I have. Is there an new not-centosaur encode floating around? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::::That's an excellent image. Now what's this about variations? P.S. 85, don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes ~ And why not just get a user name. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 01:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

==Shockwave insignia==
Can someone put this up? I'm pretty sure it was reused semi-recently, either in a DW/IDW book or as one of Overcharge's labels... right? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 20:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
:You're probably thinking of the Reprolabels set. It hasn't shown up anywhere else official, that I've heard of. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
::Hey, now it HAS showed up! TakaraTomy's [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the Transformers], Episode 4 has given it a name. It's the "Cybertron Guard" insignia. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I KNOW! I just noticed that! I uploaded it once a long time ago, but it was deleted. I can re-upload it this evening, if someone else can't get to it before then. Inversely proportional: my excitement about this symbol - my social life --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 16:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::[[Image:shocksymb.jpg]] --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

== Megatron's symbol? ==

I don't think this is specifically associated with Megatron. It's also on [[Xeon|Emirate Xeon]]'s forehead in [[Transformers: The War Within|The War Within]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 16:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
:Also, the "Ratbat Symbol" depicts insignia seen on ''many'' Transformers associated with the Senate in Origin. In the first issue, all the ship crew for the Senator's vessel have it on their foreheads.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 16:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

::You'll get no argument from me. I had a feeling my descriptives weren't 100% accurate. So, if you know stuff that I don't about these symbols, please add it. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 17:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


[[Image:Emirate Xeon symbol.png|100px]][[Image:Megatron Origin Symbol.png|100px]]

Really I'd still venture that they're the same symbol, the difference being that Figueroa tends to be a bit more precise than Milne. Now, what I'm about to say is pure ''speculation'' and thus probably doesn't deserve to be in the article itself, but I'd wager it's a regional insignia that has to do with Kokular or [[Kaon (polity)|Kaon]], as Emirates are regional governors. Alternately, I suppose Megatron's gladiatorial medallion might be an alteration or perversion of the Kokular/Kaon symbol, showing its continuing evolution into the Decepticon insignia. But I'll let others put their two cents in.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 18:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

:From page to page, the Megatron: Origin symbol changes a tad, but certain elements of Xeon's symbol never manifest in Megatron's: the separate crest, the nose/slice down the middle, the cheeks, and Xeon's horns go down, Megatron's go up. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 19:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::Well, looks like we got some clarification in Origin 3. The insignia is a team designation, and it's on a chain because team rosters are not fixed. Megatron later has the Decepticon insignia on a chain, which to me says that the prior insignia was for Clench's team which Megatron took over.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 20:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Anyone else think that the one from Megatron Origin resemble Megatron's head without helmet? As a gladiatorial team symbol, it might still be linked to the champion. Even then, it is not as if we had any idea on how or why those faction insignia evolves with time...[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 23:00, 16 March 2016 (EDT)

== Cybertron Security Forces ==

New insignia for them in Origin #3, if you've seen it. Displayed on the flags over the coffins and on the headstone.

Man, this series is just like ''delicious candy'' regarding new insignia.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 20:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, I love it. It's like insignia Christmas this week! --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 22:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
::[[Image:Security symbol Megatron Origin.png|100px]]<br>
::Well, here it is. Before it's added to the article, I wanted to be sure of what it should be called. Is "Cybertron Security Forces" what they're officially called the comic? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 22:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Issue #3 is saying "Autobot Security" but I'll have to get home before I can compare it to the prior two and see if they're called that throughout.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 23:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Whose funeral? I feel like the yellow should be the same yellow as Decimus's symbol. (Or rather, Decimus's symbol should be the same yellow as this.)

Also, I think the page is getting populated enough that we should start some long-term thinking about reorganization. Either by creating a faction symbol page in addition to the insignia page, or switching to a combo list/gallery format lie that seen in the [[holomatter]] article. No need for quick decisions, I'm just throwing it out there. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:[[Fastback (G1)|Fastback]] and [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]]'s funeral. They received an official state funeral presided over by [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], as described in [[Megatron Origin issue 3|the summary I recently wrote]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 23:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
::Oh, I didn't realize it was out yet. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:RE: yellow. Comparing the colors, Decimus' is more of a gold in the comic, and the funeral flags on the coffins are more yellow. (I'm assuming the flags are the "real" color of the symbol, as opposed to the monochromatic plaque [http://markerguru.deviantart.com/art/megatron03-sample-06-64189148]) --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 00:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I forgot to log in before doing it, but I double-checked all three issues and it is referred to in two separate issues as "Security Services HQ" and "Autobot Security Headquarters." I've split the difference in their insignia entry on the page, and am now moving to correct the reference in my issue synopsis.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 01:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== Reorg ==

I've done a slight reorg of the sections and split G1 up by history/subcontinuity. Hope that helps somewhat.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 23:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'd say the page is starting to finally come into its own regarding ease of access and information density. What do you guys think? Is the gallery format helping?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 19:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
::Yes. I think the content maybe needs some rewriting to fit it better... but that'll correct itself in time. This format is 100% better. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

== Redirects Please? ==

Don't know how to do redirects myself. Could someone else create redirects from [[Symbol]] and [[Badge]] to this article? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 21:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

: Done. Redirects are easy. Type #REDIRECT then space, then the double-bracket-link to the page you want to redirect to. Or just click [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Symbol&action=edit here] and see what it looks like. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 22:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

== Animated insignia. ==

First, we can't use them if they're that small.

Second, what we've seen of the toys indicates the insignia aren't new at all, so what you may be seeing in the teaser art/videos can be attributed to artistic style rather than changes to the symbols.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

== Cobybot insignia ==

What do you guys think? I mean sure, it's just an Autobot symbol with two wrenches, but it's still probably worth adding, right? [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] 16:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

== The Decepticon sigil's colour ==

In some of the shows the Decepticon sigil is clearly blue. Yet is purple on the toys from those shows. Does anyone know why?

== Animated - Team Chaar ==

Should the [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Blackoutanimated.jpg Team Chaar symbol] be here?
Is it even a separate symbol, or just Blackout's custom (a relic from the Great War maybe?)? -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 07:23, 30 August 2009 (EDT)
:Nobody else from Team Chaar seems to have that symbol, so it's likely that it's exclusive to Blackout. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 07:54, 30 August 2009 (EDT)

=="Shields"?==
So some of the licensed material (i.e., the [[Candy Mix]] refers to the insignia as "shields." Are there any other materials that give an official-type name to the faction logos? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:32, 1 November 2009 (EST)

==Machine Wars==
The MW Decepticon insignia is noticeably different from G1, with very rounded sad-looking eyes and fuzzy indistinct outer margins. It looks like somebody at Hasbro circa 1996 tried to re-create the G1 logos from very poor or possibly even bootlegged source material. 
Two questions:
<br>-Are there comparable differences between the G1 and MW Autobots?<br>
-Are these differences significant enough to warrant inclusion here?<br>
--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:37, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
:While adding packaging for [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:MachineWars_Hoist_CardedSampleBack.jpg back of the carded characters] featured in Machine Wars, I couldn't help but notice that it somehow used a new G2 version of the logos. Decepticons were now yellow with red lines, while Autobots are their old red... with yellow highlights. This is found not only on the back of the cards, but on all the bio cards as well. Is this just Hasbro being extra lazy for Machine Wars, or something else? Seeing how only ''one'' of the carded figures has any logos at all (Skywarp in this case)? Of course, we have no cross-selling on the Mega or Ultra boxes to see if they went to using those logos for the cross-selling. But the bio cards? [http://toys.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2008/02/1997__Sandstorm_1997_1202263706.jpg Sandstorm certainly uses G2 logos for his]], despite his figure [[Sandstorm_(G1)#Machine_Wars|still using G1 logos]]. Maybe we should get some made for the page... --[[User:NewtypeS3|NewtypeS3]] ([[User talk:NewtypeS3|talk]]) 19:30, 10 December 2017 (EST)

== Energon Unicron ==

The Unicron insignia in Energon section is not only appeared in the Energon cartoon as a special sequence, but literally on TakaraTomy's official Armada(Micron Legend) site and the toy's Japanese package as well.
Shouldn't it be considered as the insignia for Trilogy, at least of TakaraTomy version?

== Orange Unicron insignia dissapearance ==

<s>I noticed the Herald of Unicron insignia is erroneously shown as the red blendtron insignia. Is the original orange version lost? That seems to be the most likely possibility as I cannot find it anywhere. How can such a big mistake go unnoticed for so long? Have you all forgotten how to use photoshop to recolor the red one orange?</s> Ignore all of that. I fixed it already. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 14:50, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

== Tarantulas Insignia ==

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/8/8b/OptimalSituation_Tarantulas_insignia.jpg

Should we include this?
[[User:DinoFreakUSA|DinoFreakUSA]] 16:57, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

== Movie Symbols problem ==
Wasn't sure where else to put this, but this seems an appropriate enough place. I don't know if it's just on my end, or if I missed something important, but the faction symbols on all Movie/ROTF character pages seem to have become identical to the G1 equivalents. I first noticed it on the [[Decepticon]] page when I noticed that the same symbol appears twice. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 05:06, 4 December 2010 (EST)

== Original designer? ==

Who designed the original Autobot and Decepticon insignia? I mean in the real world. With all the behind-the-scenes material I've seen, I never heard a word about it.
:I'm sure [[Bob Budiansky]] must know. Was it ever said in an interview with him?--[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 04:17, 7 January 2011 (EST)

==Titan Magazines question==
The [[Decepticon Heartland]] page shows a building with a symbol that looks like G1 Shockwave's Cybertron Guard symbol. Does it stand for anything in the Titan comics, or is it just an Easter egg? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 01:26, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

== Rename Prime section Aligned? ==

There's only one symbol in that heading, and it appears to be mainly from Exodus (and some online game or something) and has never appeared on Prime, so it's sort of confusing that the section it's in is called Prime. If Aligned isn't a good name for the section, maybe Exodus? I don't really care what it's called, so long as we can agree it's not really Prime, despite being from the same continuity family or whatever.--[[Special:Contributions/76.226.116.97|76.226.116.97]] 21:27, 28 April 2012 (EDT)
:If you do, please move the Rescue Bots symbol there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:36, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:Agree on move. -Derik

==Predacons Rising Unicron-Megatron symbol==

In Predacons Rising, Megatron's new upgrade has a small star shaped insignia on the chest, I think we should add a picture for that. [[User:SoundWave|SoundWave]] 18:47, 6 October 2013 (EDT)

== G2 fiction section ==

Unless it was in the GI Joe comic, what is currently listed in the G2 fiction section didn't happen. What I mean is, it wasn't part of the story that the Autobots got together and changed their insignia to look like Optimus Prime. The new insignias where just there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:35, 25 December 2012 (EST)
:Well, how would you describe "their insignia suddenly looked like Optimus Prime rather than the G1 'Bot symbol". Errors & omissions notwithstanding, that's on the page, ergo it's part of the story between G1 #80/etc and G2 #1. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:49, 25 December 2012 (EST)
::I sympathize, but what we can't do is imply that if someone looks up the G2 comics they will find the page where the Autobots and Decepticons revise their insignias. How about something like, "'''both the Autobots and Decepticons used new insignias, which they have apparently adopted some time after the battle at Klo. For unexplained reasons, the Decepticons' new symbol was identical in design with the Cybertronian Empire.'''"
::P.S. Looking through the comics again, it appears they (accidentally or intentionally) avoided some continuity issues by not giving Megatron, Starscream, and Fort Max any identifiable insignias. Neat. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:05, 26 December 2012 (EST)

== Arms Micron Stunticon Symbol ==

As near as I can tell, the Arms Micron Stunticon symbol that came on Wildrider's sticker sheet is unique, derived from the Animated BotCon logo, but with the spiffy addition of MotorMaster into the design.

I REALLY like this one, so I took a stab at recreating it, not 100% dead on, but I think I got close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades, can I add it to the page?

[[File:ArmsMicronStunticon.jpg|400px]]--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 18:21, 5 March 2013 (EST)
: I really like that you've recreated this. It's awesome. However, I don't think this entity you've reconstructed is really an insignia. More of a logo. The insignia portion would be limited to the Decepticon symbol with the checkered square around it. Once a bunch of words or letters are added, that's not an insignia anymore. We definitely need to put this artwork somewhere, but I don't think this page is the right location. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:11, 5 March 2013 (EST)
::That's certainly sensible, might I propose Arms Micron WildRider's toy entry, or maybe in a note section on his character page? (So far) it seems to be unique to him, that is probably where it deserves mentioning. Also thank you!--[[User:Destrongerlupus|Destrongerlupus]] 09:24, 6 March 2013 (EST)

== Autobot and Decepticon "Air Force" roundels? ==

Often vaguely resembling the United States Air Force roundel.
*[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-2007/incinerator/1405/2/25/ Movie Voyager Class Incinerator] sports some sort of "Decepticon Air Force" roundel. His [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-2007/incinerator/1406/2/23/ Japanese version] not only has that, but adds [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-2007/incinerator/1406/2/29/ a second, unique roundel].
*[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/classics-universe/powerglide/1549/2/22/ Universe Ultra Class Powerglide] as well as his [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/henkei/powerglide/1629/2/23/ Japanese "USA Edition" version] have a roundel with the general outline of an Autobot insignia in the center, but the outline is completely filled out, with "9G" inside. [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/classics-universe/silverbolt/1551/2/35/ Universe Ultra Class Silverbolt] and [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/henkei/silverbolt/1627/2/28/ his "USA Edition" version] have a variation with "25".
*The [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/classics-universe/powerglide-g1/1932/2/22/ Walmart exclusive redeco of Powerglide] has a unique roundel.
*Another Decepticon roundel (if one may call it that) can be found on [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/grindor/1852/2/26/ Revenge of the Fallen Voyager Class Grindor].
*A very unique insignia can be found on [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/jetfire/1901/2/37/ Revenge of the Fallen Leader Class Jetfire] and [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/photon-missile-jetfire/2262/2/24/ Revenge of the Fallen Fast Action Battlers Photon Missile Jetfire].
*[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/ransack/1900/2/16/ Revenge of the Fallen Scout Class Ransack] has a "World War I" era-style roundel.
*The most frequently recurring roundel design can be found on [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/mindwipe/2005/2/65/ Revenge of the Fallen Voyager Class Mindwipe], [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/revenge-of-the-fallen/skystalker/2017/2/19/ Revenge of the Fallen Scout Class Skystalker], [http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-images/toys/images/181850-1/Sunspot+08.jpg Hunt for the Decepticons Scout Class Sunspot], [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-prime-robots-in-disguise/skyquake/2925/2/27/ Prime Robots in Disguise Voyager Class Skyquake], [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-prime-robots-in-disguise/dreadwing/2924/2/28/ Prime Robots in Disguise Voyager Class Dreadwing], [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-prime-cyberverse/dreadwing/2693/2/23/ Prime Cyberverse Commander Class Dreadwing] and [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/transformers-prime-beast-hunters/dreadwing/2920/2/21/ Beast Hunters Deluxe Class Dreadwing].
*[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/dark-of-the-moon/powerglide/2549/2/18/ Dark of the Moon Cyberverse Commander Class Powerglide] and his [https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=303532679672514&set=a.303526116339837.94710.166004856758631&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F310370_303532679672514_1192356236_n.jpg&size=960%2C516 redeco from the Walmart exclusive "Ultimate Gift Set"] share another roundel design.
Are any of these of relevance?--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 11:22, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

== Sharkticons ==

What about that weird Decepticon-but-with-mandibles symbol that appears on Sharkticon Megatron? Should that not be on here? [[User:BT383|BT383]] ([[User talk:BT383|talk]]) 05:32, 1 November 2014 (EDT)

== Steeljaw's Pack ==

I know that at first, the slash on the insignias of [[Steeljaw (RID)|Steeljaw]] and his followers was to avoid detection, but then [[Fracture (RID)|Fracture]] also slashed his insignia after joining Steeljaw, despite not needing to do it as he wasn't a former Alchemor prisoner, then in season 2, I noticed [[Thunderhoof]] still kept the slashed insignia. Therefore, should the slashed Decepticon insignias be considered as the insignia of Steeljaw's pack?--[[User:D.A.Martin|D.A.Martin]] ([[User talk:D.A.Martin|talk]]) 20:57, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
: I don't think it's been used in any packaging art or anything that's easily scannable, but I suppose that someone could whip up a good facsimile in Photoshop or something. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 21:08, 8 June 2016 (EDT)

== Stylized Drawings ==

I recently recolored the Autobot and Decepticon symbols to illustrate the similarities between Prowl and Soundwave's heads. Is that useful to the wiki? (here's a link: [http://ravagerants.weebly.com/main-page/august-26th-2017]) [[User:TheLiegeDecado|TheLiegeDecado]] ([[User talk:TheLiegeDecado|talk]]) 20:43, 26 August 2017 (EDT)