Multiversal singularity: Difference between revisions
I hope this change to the opening section succinctly captures what AVP has explained. |
*taps finger* I'm no quantum mechanic, but I think this covers it... |
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But there are a rare few beings known as "'''multiversal singularities'''" whose existence is not so divided by the boundaries between universes. Such a being has a single identity and perception that spans the multiverse, with the ability to move between dimensions more or less at will. This unity, however, is not ''always'' confined to being absolutely singular. Rather, a singularity can have separate bodies active in different universes but all connected to one single consciousness. Often, a singular being can die, but as long as they were not killed in some extraordinary fashion, their body or bodies elsewhere in the multiverse will live on with the knowledge of their counterpart's death. | But there are a rare few beings known as "'''multiversal singularities'''" whose existence is not so divided by the boundaries between universes. Such a being has a single identity and perception that spans the multiverse, with the ability to move between dimensions more or less at will. This unity, however, is not ''always'' confined to being absolutely singular. Rather, a singularity can have separate bodies active in different universes but all connected to one single consciousness. Often, a singular being can die, but as long as they were not killed in some extraordinary fashion, their body or bodies elsewhere in the multiverse will live on with the knowledge of their counterpart's death. | ||
Known or implied multiversal singularities include: | Multiversal singularities ceased to exist thanks to the efforts of [[Nexus Prime (Classics)|Nexus Prime]], who used the powers of the [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] and [[Terminus Blade]] in concert to solidify the walls between realities, limiting dimensional travel and splintering all known singularities into infinite alternate variations of themselves. | ||
Known or implied (former) multiversal singularities include: | |||
*[[Primus]] | *[[Primus]] | ||
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{{quote|And there's only one Prima in the entire multiverse because all of the Thirteen, Unicron, and Primus are '''''singularities'''''.|[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] on the nature of Prima and his kind.|"[[Another Light: Falling into Place]]"}} | {{quote|And there's only one Prima in the entire multiverse because all of the Thirteen, Unicron, and Primus are '''''singularities'''''.|[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] on the nature of Prima and his kind.|"[[Another Light: Falling into Place]]"}} | ||
==Conceptual history== | |||
The concept of a singular being existing across multiple discreet universes originated with [[Unicron]]. Though historically, multiple different conflicting origins and fates had been detailed for the character in the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original Generation 1 cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comic]], in the early 2000s, multiple works by [[Simon Furman]] introduced the idea that, in fact, there was only one Unicron, who travelled from universe to universe. Such powers were first suggested by the [[Transformers: Universe (2003 franchise)|first ''Universe'' franchise]], which was built on the premise of Unicron kidnapping Transformers from various universes, and Furman's [[Transformers: Universe (comic)|comic]] established that he did this from a location ''between'' dimensions, the first time Unicron was shown to personally transcend dimensional barriers. Soon after, the Furman-penned "[[Worlds Collide]]" storyline in the [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] ''[[Transformers: Armada (Dreamwave)|Armada]]'' comic book and ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]'' were published and made further mention of Unicron's dimension-crossing power, though they did not explicitly declare a single Unicron. | |||
It was ultimately Hasbro copywriter [[Forest Lee]] who picked up that thread and used it to create the "multiversal singularity" idea, playing it out in the [[Fun Publications]] ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' comic. He established two different expressions of singularity: Unicron's, where there was only one incarnation hopping from universe to universe; and Primus's, where every universe had its own incarnation, but they were all connected. Lee also gave other characters similar pan-dimensional status, such as Vector Prime, who seemed to embody the Unicron model, and Vector Sigma, which was more like Primus. (This basically jibed with the [[Transformers: Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], which presented Vector Prime as able to exist after his death because he had previously spent a large amount of his life outside of the flow of time, which meant that he would therefore always exist in that timeless realm.) Following this story, the Fun Publications comic went on to introduce Nexus Prime, whom it presented in a manner consistent with singularity-hood: an ancient being whose component robots went on a cross-dimensional romp with nary a hint of encountering duplicate versions of themselves. As both Vector Prime and Nexus Prime are members of the Thirteen, it their singular nature was implicitly extended to the rest of that group; Lee would later confirm the Fallen was also a singularity, and future Fun Publications stories clearly established that this was the case. | |||
However, the concept never gained a foothold outside of very specific, fan-targeted media like the club comic, and any appearance by singularities in other media would invariably result in them not acting like singularities. The Fallen's appearance in the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|live-action movie that bore his name]], for instance, bore only a superficial resemblance to he character's [[Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|previous appearance]]. [[Devil's Due Press|Devil's Due]] created a third origin for Unicron in their [[Black Horizon, Part 1 of 2|''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers'' comic]], presenting him as an alien banished from his world. When the [[Aligned continuity family]] was introduced, and finally revealed the entire roster of the Thirteen, it was only with the caveat that this version of the story was unconnected to any past story.<ref>"Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity. Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen." [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=74182&view=findpost&p=1675011 Allspark.com Q&A]</ref> This lack of top-down control of the concept required multiple out-of-story explanations for these events; Forest Lee delivered a particularly impressive explanation for The Fallen (see below), while in 2015, it fell to "[[Ask Vector Prime]]" to try and reconcile the other explanations with talk of non-singularity expressions separated quantum membranes. | |||
Ultimately, 2015's [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club (magazine)|Transformers Collectors' Club magazine]] story "[[Another Light]]" formally did away with the concept of multiversal singularities, splintering them into the standard infinite alternate selves that normal beings exist as. | |||
==Mechanics== | |||
Multiversal singularities are, broadly speaking, living quantum events—multiple infinite incarnations co-existing, until they "resolve" into one particular "state" depending on the rules of the given reality they exist within at that time. A singularity manifesting in a [[Flatworld|two-dimensional universe]], for example, would manifest in a two-dimensional form. One travelling into a [[Shattered Glass|negative-polarity universe]] would potentially find their nature inverted. More prosaically, if a singularity were to manifest in a world defined by the fact that [[Female Transformers]] were the norm, they might even find their gender switched. | |||
Most singularities are what might be termed "linear" lifeforms, who travel from universe to universe, with Primus serving as the exception who co-exists across multiple universes simultaneously. To call them linear, however, is very limited language, as the nature of their existence is such that they will live and re-live many events over and over in infinitesimally-different worlds, and the differences in the flow of space and time from one universe to the next can mean that they will exist in one universe while "chronologically" existing simultaneously somewhere else at any potential point in the timeline. It is even possible for a singularity to die, but because of the way in which they live their lives, they will almost certainly always remain alive somewhere else in the multiverse either before or after this event, and will even be aware of the death of an extension of themselves. It is difficult to easily express how a multiversal singularity "experiences" existence. | |||
It is entirely possible for discreet incarnations to come into being independent of the singularity, resulting in very similar beings who are not part of the quantum event. Such was the case with the [[Thirteen]] of the [[Uniend]] cluster, but when the quantum membrane separating their reality from the rest of the multiverse was punctured, those incarnations began to be absorbed into their respective singularities. Before said merge was complete, however, Nexus Prime's actions caused singluarities to cease to be. | |||
==Fiction== | ==Fiction== | ||
{{note|The term "multiversal singularity" does not appear in | {{note|The term "multiversal singularity" does not appear in most fiction, having largely come into being through [[#Creator commentary|creator commentary]] (see below). The term did eventually get used in [[Ask Vector Prime]], and in the Fun Publications storyline that was expressly dedicated to bringing the concept to an end.}} | ||
===DK ''Transformers: The Ultimate Guide'' book=== | ===DK ''Transformers: The Ultimate Guide'' book=== | ||
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The multiversal singularity concept raised many questions in the fan community, especially because it was hinted to apply to characters in active use outside of the storylines that employed the idea. One prominent example was The Fallen, who as a member of the Thirteen was possibly a singularity like Vector Prime and Nexus Prime. But his contemporary appearances in [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|comics and films]] didn't acknowledge the issue, so he became the subject of several specific inquiries directed at Hasbro. While none of the following is strictly [[canon]], we consider it [[Authorial intent|an enlightening accompaniment to the in-fiction facts]]. | The multiversal singularity concept raised many questions in the fan community, especially because it was hinted to apply to characters in active use outside of the storylines that employed the idea. One prominent example was The Fallen, who as a member of the Thirteen was possibly a singularity like Vector Prime and Nexus Prime. But his contemporary appearances in [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|comics and films]] didn't acknowledge the issue, so he became the subject of several specific inquiries directed at Hasbro. While none of the following is strictly [[canon]], we consider it [[Authorial intent|an enlightening accompaniment to the in-fiction facts]]. | ||
At the [[BotCon 2009]] Hasbro roundtable, a fan asked what The Fallen of the ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' universe would look like; i.e., would he be covered in ice instead of fire? | At the [[BotCon 2009]] Hasbro roundtable, a fan asked what The Fallen of the ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' universe would look like; i.e., would he be covered in ice instead of fire? Forest Lee opined that because The Fallen is a multiversal singularity, no ''Shattered Glass'' version exists.<ref>[http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/510306.html A fan's blog post about The Fallen]</ref> This led to a question in [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009|Hasbro's July 2009 Q&A session]], asking how The Fallen could be a singularity since there are so many different movie adaptations, video games, etc., that present alternate fates for the character. We found interesting and complex enough to merit reproducing in full: | ||
This led to a question in [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009|Hasbro's July 2009 Q&A session]], asking how The Fallen could be a singularity since there are so many different movie adaptations, video games, etc., that present alternate fates for the character. We found | |||
{{quote|The complex nature of the multiverse demands much from singular creatures like the Fallen, Primus, Unicron, the 13, etc. These beings are of a fundamentally different nature from regular individuals, who are repeated endlessly throughout the infinite variation of creation. They must be designed or evolved to deal with certain situations that would drive lesser beings mad. | |||
First of all, time flows differently from dimension to dimension. By necessity, this makes it possible for creatures like the Fallen to appear to exist in two places at the same time. Second, whole new universes are spawned every moment by the resolution of quantum uncertainty. Most of these universes are dead ends that exist for only a few seconds or minutes at most, and encompass only a few critical moments. Therefore, at certain critical junctures, the Fallen becomes a quantum event, experiencing two or more possible outcomes at once, until one of those outcomes proves to be a dead end and collapses. The Fallen then reverts back to the "real" universe. Every story has dozens or hundreds of endings we never see. But the Fallen sees them. | |||
One of the side effects of the Fallen's quantum nature is that his appearance changes slightly from dimension to dimension, based on the expectations of others, and the unique history he has (or has not) established in a particular dimension. He is also bound by the "rules" (gravity, magnetism, etc.) of any dimension in which appears – many of which rules he may have actually helped shape when the multiverse was young. So if time flows backwards in a certain dimension, he is bound to live and experience – forgetting as he goes along – everything backwards.'' | |||
Smart and savvy dimensional travelers spend time in reverse timescale dimensions, slow-time dimensions, or dimensions in which time does not move at all. This ensures that even if they are "killed," they continue to exist. As you can see, the idea of sequential experience as you and I understand it is pretty meaningless to guys like the Fallen. He does experience all these things, but his mind operates on a higher order so all of this stuff totally makes sense to him.|}} | |||
(We're persnickety enough to note that this explanation can certainly be interpreted as contradicting Lee's earlier statment regarding a ''Shattered Glass'' Fallen; if a singularity is defined by the rules of a universe, then a negative-polarity universe would logically have an effect on The Fallen, creating a ''Shattered Glass'' version of the character who was still part of the singularity. When questioned on the subject, Vector Prime was certainly loathe to talk about negative-polarity universes, as he feared this was a very likely effect.) | |||
==Notes== | ==Notes== | ||
Revision as of 16:55, 23 October 2015
| The name or term "singularity" refers to more than one character or idea. For a list of other meanings, see singularity (disambiguation). |

The multiverse comprises countless parallel universes, diverging timelines, and alternate dimensions. For most individuals, existence is perceived within just one of these. A single being may have endless doppelgangers spread across those universes, but each incarnation lives a separate life. And if one were ever to cross dimensions and meet an alternate self, they would perceive each other as distinct persons.
But there are a rare few beings known as "multiversal singularities" whose existence is not so divided by the boundaries between universes. Such a being has a single identity and perception that spans the multiverse, with the ability to move between dimensions more or less at will. This unity, however, is not always confined to being absolutely singular. Rather, a singularity can have separate bodies active in different universes but all connected to one single consciousness. Often, a singular being can die, but as long as they were not killed in some extraordinary fashion, their body or bodies elsewhere in the multiverse will live on with the knowledge of their counterpart's death.
Multiversal singularities ceased to exist thanks to the efforts of Nexus Prime, who used the powers of the Star Saber and Terminus Blade in concert to solidify the walls between realities, limiting dimensional travel and splintering all known singularities into infinite alternate variations of themselves.
Known or implied (former) multiversal singularities include:
- Primus
- Unicron
- Vector Sigma
- The Prime Spark
- The Thirteen original Transformers, including:
Conceptual history
The concept of a singular being existing across multiple discreet universes originated with Unicron. Though historically, multiple different conflicting origins and fates had been detailed for the character in the original Generation 1 cartoon and Marvel comic, in the early 2000s, multiple works by Simon Furman introduced the idea that, in fact, there was only one Unicron, who travelled from universe to universe. Such powers were first suggested by the first Universe franchise, which was built on the premise of Unicron kidnapping Transformers from various universes, and Furman's comic established that he did this from a location between dimensions, the first time Unicron was shown to personally transcend dimensional barriers. Soon after, the Furman-penned "Worlds Collide" storyline in the Dreamwave Armada comic book and Transformers: The Ultimate Guide were published and made further mention of Unicron's dimension-crossing power, though they did not explicitly declare a single Unicron.
It was ultimately Hasbro copywriter Forest Lee who picked up that thread and used it to create the "multiversal singularity" idea, playing it out in the Fun Publications Cybertron comic. He established two different expressions of singularity: Unicron's, where there was only one incarnation hopping from universe to universe; and Primus's, where every universe had its own incarnation, but they were all connected. Lee also gave other characters similar pan-dimensional status, such as Vector Prime, who seemed to embody the Unicron model, and Vector Sigma, which was more like Primus. (This basically jibed with the Cybertron cartoon, which presented Vector Prime as able to exist after his death because he had previously spent a large amount of his life outside of the flow of time, which meant that he would therefore always exist in that timeless realm.) Following this story, the Fun Publications comic went on to introduce Nexus Prime, whom it presented in a manner consistent with singularity-hood: an ancient being whose component robots went on a cross-dimensional romp with nary a hint of encountering duplicate versions of themselves. As both Vector Prime and Nexus Prime are members of the Thirteen, it their singular nature was implicitly extended to the rest of that group; Lee would later confirm the Fallen was also a singularity, and future Fun Publications stories clearly established that this was the case.
However, the concept never gained a foothold outside of very specific, fan-targeted media like the club comic, and any appearance by singularities in other media would invariably result in them not acting like singularities. The Fallen's appearance in the live-action movie that bore his name, for instance, bore only a superficial resemblance to he character's previous appearance. Devil's Due created a third origin for Unicron in their G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers comic, presenting him as an alien banished from his world. When the Aligned continuity family was introduced, and finally revealed the entire roster of the Thirteen, it was only with the caveat that this version of the story was unconnected to any past story.[1] This lack of top-down control of the concept required multiple out-of-story explanations for these events; Forest Lee delivered a particularly impressive explanation for The Fallen (see below), while in 2015, it fell to "Ask Vector Prime" to try and reconcile the other explanations with talk of non-singularity expressions separated quantum membranes.
Ultimately, 2015's Transformers Collectors' Club magazine story "Another Light" formally did away with the concept of multiversal singularities, splintering them into the standard infinite alternate selves that normal beings exist as.
Mechanics
Multiversal singularities are, broadly speaking, living quantum events—multiple infinite incarnations co-existing, until they "resolve" into one particular "state" depending on the rules of the given reality they exist within at that time. A singularity manifesting in a two-dimensional universe, for example, would manifest in a two-dimensional form. One travelling into a negative-polarity universe would potentially find their nature inverted. More prosaically, if a singularity were to manifest in a world defined by the fact that Female Transformers were the norm, they might even find their gender switched.
Most singularities are what might be termed "linear" lifeforms, who travel from universe to universe, with Primus serving as the exception who co-exists across multiple universes simultaneously. To call them linear, however, is very limited language, as the nature of their existence is such that they will live and re-live many events over and over in infinitesimally-different worlds, and the differences in the flow of space and time from one universe to the next can mean that they will exist in one universe while "chronologically" existing simultaneously somewhere else at any potential point in the timeline. It is even possible for a singularity to die, but because of the way in which they live their lives, they will almost certainly always remain alive somewhere else in the multiverse either before or after this event, and will even be aware of the death of an extension of themselves. It is difficult to easily express how a multiversal singularity "experiences" existence.
It is entirely possible for discreet incarnations to come into being independent of the singularity, resulting in very similar beings who are not part of the quantum event. Such was the case with the Thirteen of the Uniend cluster, but when the quantum membrane separating their reality from the rest of the multiverse was punctured, those incarnations began to be absorbed into their respective singularities. Before said merge was complete, however, Nexus Prime's actions caused singluarities to cease to be.
Fiction
DK Transformers: The Ultimate Guide book
Unicron could move between dimensions, and when he succeeded at destroying one universe, he rested for a time and then moved to a new one to consume it as well. Sometimes he faced apparent destruction himself, but he would always return. His spark core, shielded against even the Matrix energy that could obliterate his body, would rebuild his form with the power of consumed sparks or pure energon. Transformers: The Ultimate Guide
Unicron Trilogy
Dreamwave Armada comic
The Transformers on Earth learned of Unicron while he was still consuming another reality. Over-Run, a fugitive from that universe, explained that Unicron had devoured many realities, and he would be coming for this one soon. Worlds Collide, Part 3 of 4 This indeed came to pass, but with the power of the Mini-Con Matrix, Unicron was pushed back into the dimensional rift though which he had arrived. The End
Transformers Legends
A special trans-dimensional Spark known as the Prime Spark was shared by at least three different Transformers from at least two dimensions. It was entrusted to chosen Autobot and Maximal leaders by Primus. Prime Spark
Fun Publications Cybertron comic

When Ramjet emerged from his exile between dimensions, he was driven by a purpose: He claimed that he could fulfill Unicron's destiny better than Unicron ever could have, since Unicron's "imprisonment in a physical body" meant he was "incapable of destroying more than one reality at a time." But Unicron's recent destruction in this universe had resulted in a massive black hole, and Ramjet believed that if he drove Cybertron into it, the result would be a chain reaction that would destroy the multiverse. He said that Cybertron, the embodiment of Primus, was the "stable axis of the multiverse [...] a single, infinite curve across all realities; the only truly unique thing in all of creation." Feed one incarnation of it into the black hole, and not only would its universe crumble, but the black hole would replicate into universe after universe until it was the center of all things, and all things would be "a swirling, infinite hell of nothingness". Balancing Act, Part 2
To stop him, Vector Sigma summoned Vector Prime: defender of cosmic order, member of the Thirteen, and "one of the very few truly unique creatures in the Multi-verse [sic]". Vector Prime bio He fought one-on-one with Ramjet and ultimately prevailed by cutting a hole in space-time with his sword and forcing Ramjet into it, telling him he would join Unicron. Revelations Part 1

Taking stock of the damage wrought by the battle, Vector Prime briefly conversed with the Autobots on Cybertron, including an alternate-universe Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus who had been transported there by Vector Sigma from yet another multiversal conflict. They described how they had been battling inside Unicron himself when the Chaos-Bringer began to vanish; Vector Prime attributed this to the black hole, in which was "trapped the Unicron from all whens." But before he could explain any more, he said that he was struggling to "maintain these future echoes that appear to you" because he had "gamed the time stream" so much. Then he suddenly vanished.
At that point Over-Run, who existed inside the planetary computer network, piped up and reassured the Autobots that Vector Prime was back on Earth, where he didn't have to expend energy avoiding paradoxes. He also described Vector Sigma as existing in "nodes" throughout the multiverse, which he (Over-Run) could access. Revelations Part 2
Shattered Glass
Fun Publications Shattered Glass comic
Eons ago, Nexus Prime, a member of the Thirteen, cut himself into five components and scattered them throughout the multiverse. Each of these components became an individual robot who, as millennia passed, forgot his original identity and lost his pan-dimensional perception. Most of them settled into ordinary lives, but eventually a series of cross-dimensional events brought them back together. Nexus Prime bio They reunited in this universe, and in the process of doing so, no suggestion was ever made that they might have additional incarnations – this despite the profusion of splinter timelines and so on in the eons since they had been separated. When they physically re-merged, they regained their ability to move between universes at will, as well as some of their cosmic perception and memory, and they still behaved as though they were unique in the multiverse. Reunification: Part 6
Creator commentary
The multiversal singularity concept raised many questions in the fan community, especially because it was hinted to apply to characters in active use outside of the storylines that employed the idea. One prominent example was The Fallen, who as a member of the Thirteen was possibly a singularity like Vector Prime and Nexus Prime. But his contemporary appearances in comics and films didn't acknowledge the issue, so he became the subject of several specific inquiries directed at Hasbro. While none of the following is strictly canon, we consider it an enlightening accompaniment to the in-fiction facts.
At the BotCon 2009 Hasbro roundtable, a fan asked what The Fallen of the Shattered Glass universe would look like; i.e., would he be covered in ice instead of fire? Forest Lee opined that because The Fallen is a multiversal singularity, no Shattered Glass version exists.[2] This led to a question in Hasbro's July 2009 Q&A session, asking how The Fallen could be a singularity since there are so many different movie adaptations, video games, etc., that present alternate fates for the character. We found interesting and complex enough to merit reproducing in full:
First of all, time flows differently from dimension to dimension. By necessity, this makes it possible for creatures like the Fallen to appear to exist in two places at the same time. Second, whole new universes are spawned every moment by the resolution of quantum uncertainty. Most of these universes are dead ends that exist for only a few seconds or minutes at most, and encompass only a few critical moments. Therefore, at certain critical junctures, the Fallen becomes a quantum event, experiencing two or more possible outcomes at once, until one of those outcomes proves to be a dead end and collapses. The Fallen then reverts back to the "real" universe. Every story has dozens or hundreds of endings we never see. But the Fallen sees them.
One of the side effects of the Fallen's quantum nature is that his appearance changes slightly from dimension to dimension, based on the expectations of others, and the unique history he has (or has not) established in a particular dimension. He is also bound by the "rules" (gravity, magnetism, etc.) of any dimension in which appears – many of which rules he may have actually helped shape when the multiverse was young. So if time flows backwards in a certain dimension, he is bound to live and experience – forgetting as he goes along – everything backwards.
Smart and savvy dimensional travelers spend time in reverse timescale dimensions, slow-time dimensions, or dimensions in which time does not move at all. This ensures that even if they are "killed," they continue to exist. As you can see, the idea of sequential experience as you and I understand it is pretty meaningless to guys like the Fallen. He does experience all these things, but his mind operates on a higher order so all of this stuff totally makes sense to him.(We're persnickety enough to note that this explanation can certainly be interpreted as contradicting Lee's earlier statment regarding a Shattered Glass Fallen; if a singularity is defined by the rules of a universe, then a negative-polarity universe would logically have an effect on The Fallen, creating a Shattered Glass version of the character who was still part of the singularity. When questioned on the subject, Vector Prime was certainly loathe to talk about negative-polarity universes, as he feared this was a very likely effect.)
Notes
- Because this concept is so abstrusely defined, it is unclear whether it can be applied to pan-dimensional characters unrelated to Furman and Lee's storylines. For example, the Alternity are conglomerations of alternate versions of particular characters, collective beings existing in higher-dimensional space. At a glance, this seems to reflect the Primus model, but the Alternity is presented as an outcome of eons of evolution, whereas the confirmed singularities appear to have had their multiverse-spanning nature from the beginning. Whether or not such details matter to the definition is up for debate.
References
- ↑ "Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity. Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen." Allspark.com Q&A
- ↑ A fan's blog post about The Fallen

