Talk:Roller (IDW)

Roller (drone)

Since Orion's memories of Roller were wiped at the end of All Our Parlous Yesterdays, we can no longer just assume that Orion named his drone module after Roller, so I took that little bit of information off.--DeathbotTheGreat (talk) 22:02, 13 January 2015 (EST)

.... what? Not ALL of them were wiped out! --ItsWalky (talk) 22:21, 13 January 2015 (EST)

So ummmm...SPOILERS

If a certain "thing" turns out to be true about Roller and his...current whereabouts, will we be merging pages? --Nu-Priest (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Why worry about something that has not happened? - Repowers (talk) 20:09, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Tarn_(DJD) / Roller Merge...

Aight boys, So it is offically confirmed that Tarn and Roller are the same guy... Shall we merge?? Or Maybe not? Cuz Tarn is sort of Roller's Alter-Ego... Hyruk (talk) 11:42, 8 April 2015 (EDT)

Well, it's not, so no. - Chris McFeely (talk) 11:46, 8 April 2015 (EDT)

And even so, starting a new section on a page with a title that would be a major spoiler, causing it to show up on the Recent changes page... is KIND OF A DICK-ASS MOVE. --ItsWalky (talk) 12:34, 8 April 2015 (EDT)

hahahahahahaha Saix (talk) 01:48, 28 July 2016 (EDT)

Wandering Roller

The info from Unite Warriors was lumped back into this page, I see. Now, I can understand that WR being G1 Roller is a JP-only thing... but does that necessarily mean that there's a "US interpretation" that makes Wandering Roller specifically a version of IDW Roller? Best case scenario, in my view, is that WR "doesn't exist" in the US; without English-language fiction backing it up, it seems like a weaker case of, say, something like the recent merging of some of the RID characters with their "G1" versions (e.g., IDW Gigatron now being on RID Megatron's page).

Just 2c from a sporadic editor/longtime lurker Magaroja (talk) 11:53, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Does WR have any American fiction? --Khajidha (talk) 11:58, 28 November 2016 (EST)

To my knowledge, no.

And on re-thinking it... *sigh* I think I "get it", but I do so grudgingly, knowing full well my thoughts are relatively irrelevant given how little I've contributed to the site. Technically, yes, the specifications of how WR looks are derived from IDW Roller, so it makes sense to have SOME info relating that on the website, and again given the treatment of other slightly similar situations, sure, "it's a version of IDW Roller". Just not a fan, is all (and I wasn't a fan of merging RID characters into G1 guys either). But eh. Magaroja (talk) 12:05, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I get it, but think the way you had it was more honest. --Khajidha (talk) 12:12, 28 November 2016 (EST)

"Wandering Roller" is Japan's version of IDW Roller. I mean, look at it. That's not in question. They took the Rook toy and they did it up to look like IDW Roller. Then, Japan eventually decided that Wandering Roller and buggy Roller were the same character in their continuity, but not before originally showing that WR used to look exactly like IDW Roller. That last-minute revelation doesn't magically prevent WR from being the Japanese version of IDW Roller, and the brief summary and link through to the other article is, IMO, more representative of the actual situation than just a note claiming "pfft, no, this guy who looks just like IDW Roller isn't teeeeeechnically a version of IDW Roller." Jalaguy (talk) 12:21, 28 November 2016 (EST)

But they never actually showed them as two characters? So your "pfft" note is exactly what happened. That's how I see it. --Khajidha (talk) 12:30, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I agree with Khajidha. Wandering Roller isn't IDW Roller. He's a guy we were temporarily misled into THINKING he was IDW Roller. There are not multiple continuities at play -- Unite Warriors is his only story and it's clear from that storyline that W Roller is drone Roller, not IDW Roller. Wandering Roller should get the same treatment as Tarn: a Note at the bottom saying we REALLY thought he was IDW Roller, but it later turned out he wasn't. --Xaaron (talk) 12:38, 28 November 2016 (EST)

He can be more than one thing at once! Wandering Roller is JG1 drone Roller and JG1 IDW Roller. The revelation is "surprise, our version of IDW Roller is the same guy as G1 Roller!" not "surprise, our version of IDW Roller isn't actually our version of IDW Roller!" Jalaguy (talk) 13:06, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Where was he shown to BE IDW Roller as opposed to simply homaging him? --Khajidha (talk) 13:13, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Chapter 1 implied WRoller was IDW Roller. The last Chapter said he was JG1 Roller. So, is he both, or is he just JG1 Roller? Well, what's the evidence he was IDW Roller? He looked like him once. But Transformers look like each other all the time, especially across dimensions. RotF Bludgeon was only listed in the Notes of G1 Bludgeon for years until Legends finally appropriated that body for him, and it was added to Toys. Just looking like a guy isn't enough. It CAN'T be enough, given the way the TF franchise and repurposings operate. G1 Roller and IDW Roller are separate characters/concepts. There isn't any real evidence to say the meta-concept of the separate IDW Roller is ALSO embodied in JG1 Roller, just because JG1 Roller once looked like IDW Roller. --Xaaron (talk) 13:18, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I'll put it like this - prior to the release of the final chapter, there was zero question that Wandering Roller was a version of IDW Roller, right? He looked like IDW Roller, had a take on IDW Roller's backstory, etc. Nobody would have argued "gee, can we really be sure?" The revelation that he is also G1 Roller does not somehow unwrite/invalidate all those things that made him super-obviously a version of IDW Roller. If, to create a wild hypothetical, a new chapter of the Legends manga declared that JG1 Windblade was actually rebuilt by the Zamojin from Lancer, would we strip the Legends fiction and toy from Windblade (G1), leaving just a note saying "we thought this character was Windblade, but no, it was actually Lancer!"? Jalaguy (talk) 13:28, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I would hope that we would do exactly that, because that's what the fiction said. All that buildup is just red herrings. You wouldn't write up a mystery novel and say that character one was the villain because all the clues pointed to him/her if the last chapter said "nope, it's actually character 2 who killed everybody", would you? --Khajidha (talk) 13:54, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I... I don't even know how to respond to the notion that hiding information like that would be a good idea. Jalaguy (talk) 14:28, 28 November 2016 (EST)

And I don't even know how you could disagree. The fiction says what it says. If it says that what looks like one character is actually another, then those appearances belong on the second character's page, not the first. Nothing would be hidden, as you said before that a note would be placed that "we thought this was this character, but it was really this one. See their page for details."--Khajidha (talk) 14:38, 28 November 2016 (EST)

(sorry for the late reply) Yes, because TakaraTomy's treatment of female TFs is wretched, and if they reverse turn on a character I care about, I'm all for it. Magaroja (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2016 (EST)

And let's not oversell "all those things" that made him "super-obviously" IDW Roller. It's really just TWO things: (1) WRoller apparently looked like IDW Roller before Unicron found him, and (2) he had a "vengeful spirit" because he was "abandoned by his comrades". Well, the final chapter completely explained away (2), providing a different scenario where WRoller was abandoned. He was talking about something else, not MTMTE #36 or anything like it. Which leaves (1). Just looking like somebody CANNOT be enough to say they're the same person in TF fiction. And for a comparable scenario, Nightbird (G1) is still a separate page from Nightracer (G2), even though Fun Pub used a place-holder image of 'Bird in A Flash Forward before introducing 'Racer.

There were reasons to think WRoller was the UW version of IDW Roller. But then the story went a different direction and explained away those reasons. What's left isn't enough to support the WRoller = IDW Roller idea. --Xaaron (talk) 14:25, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Okay. Is it any way helpful to readers who might be looking for toys of IDW Roller, or information about the G1-universe, black and orange friend of Optimus Prime Roller who showed up in the Unite Warriors comics, to sequester the information on him down in IDW Roller's notes section? I'm going to lean towards "no". (Seriously, guys, this is not something that it's a good idea to get up our own asses about.) --Riptide (talk) 13:32, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Kind of a moot point. Whether Wandering Roller is listed under Toys (above the Notes line) or depicted below in the Notes section, it's still going to be virtually the last thing on the page. Regardless of which idea we go with, anyone who hits Ctrl + End is going to see the Toy and the explanation for it in the same place on their screen. The only practical difference will be whether a Unite Warriors fiction section is present on Roller (IDW). --Xaaron (talk) 13:41, 28 November 2016 (EST)

The way we have this organized right now is perfect as far as I'm concerned. This does not need to be another up-our-own-ass "ooh it doesn't exactly fit the way we organize things" piece of bullshit. Arranging the information in any way other than we have right now is in the name of overzealous continuity wonkery a step down in terms of readability and accessibility. The character in UW is, in every regard, from his appearance, to his backstory, to his relationships with other characters, designed to be a version of IDW Roller, while also being a version of G1 Roller. He can be two things, and he is. - Chris McFeely (talk)

I agree with Chris. A note saying JG1 Roller mainly qualifies as G1 Roller but also incorporates aspects of IDW Roller seems sufficient. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 15:39, 28 November 2016 (EST)

He isn't an anything of IDW Roller. It was a fake-out and we know he's the G1 beepy-boopy guy instead. The UW toy should not be on this page.--Thylacine 2000 (talk) 15:50, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Thy, are you interpreting "IDW Roller" to literally mean "the exact same character who has crossed over from the IDW universe" here, or something? Because like I said - literally everything about the backstory and appearance of UW Roller is designed to be a version of IDW Roller. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:02, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Where in the comic does it show or say him being the MTMTE guy? Nowhere; we all just fell for it. Leaving him up there is an anthropological snapshot of what it was like to be a fan the last half of 2016. It isn't actual storyline material. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 16:09, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I feel like we're fundamentally disagreeing on what "being" a version of a character means. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:12, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Is the problem people are getting hung up on the "(IDW)" part of the article name? Because this article is about the character archetype, of which IDW Roller and UW Roller are both representations, not just literally the IDW guy. If the article was titled "Roller (bipedal dude who talks)", I don't think there'd be a question at all. --abates (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I'm hung up on the fact that he is said to be the "beep-boop" guy. The character on this page is said to not be the "beep-boop" guy. Therefor, this doesn't belong as anything more than a note that "this toy was decoed like this guy and people thought he was this guy, but the story said otherwise". Xaaron's point about Tarn seems like a relevant parallel to me. People thought he was, story said otherwise. Note, and move on.--Khajidha (talk) 16:56, 28 November 2016 (EST)

The Tarn thing isn't really the same at all. The comic didn't say "Tarn is Roller", then throw out a surprise reveal that it was somebody different. Jalaguy (talk) 17:11, 28 November 2016 (EST)

And did this material say "This Roller is not the beep boop guy"? Or did you just assume it? --Khajidha (talk) 17:15, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Not sure what you're getting at here. The IDWverse version of IDW Roller can't be "the beep boop guy", since he was missing during the time period that G1 Roller was active, but that doesn't preclude the JG1verse version of IDW Roller being the beep boop guy. --Riptide (talk) 17:17, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I'm sure I'm not going to win this, so this will be my last post in this topic. But I struggle to see what this proposed overall IDW Roller would be. What makes a character "IDW Roller"? I was under the impression that this page was about a G1 character named Roller who was not the "beep boop drone" and that any G1 character that was said drone would be on the other page. Everything else that anyone has mentioned seems no more than homages and red herrings designed to make you think that WR was the IDWverse Roller and not the drone, but not actually indications of identity. All that we are actually told about WR's identity is that he IS the drone.--Khajidha (talk) 18:44, 28 November 2016 (EST)

IDW Roller is "an orange and black guy who is Optimus Prime's friend". G1 Roller is "a silver six wheeled vehicle who lives in Optimus Prime's trailer". JG1 Roller is both. Being "not the drone guy" is not a required component of being IDW Roller; we don't define character archetypes by what they aren't. (And by default, JG1 Roller is not "the drone", because he's been explicitly presented as a sentient individual!) --Riptide (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2016 (EST)

I also agree with Chris. The way the information is presented now on this page is ideal. --ItsWalky (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2016 (EST)

Yeah, I'm with Chris. --M Sipher (talk) 16:42, 28 November 2016 (EST)