Talk:Real Gear Robot

Do we have a reason to consider Toaster a RGR? Chip 14:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you know which Toaster I'm talking about?

He's the prototypical 'animated by the Allspark' Transformer. -Derik 14:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Derik, the Chevy Autobots are not Real Gear Robots. RGRs are a throwback line to the Microchange toys put out in the first two years of Hasbro's Transformers line. Period. Full stop. --Rotty 17:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, I just noticed that the original Real Gear article is Real Gear Robots. The material here that isn't wrong so totally needs to be merged with that. -Rotty 17:08, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I am of two minds on this. Fictionally speaking, Real Gear Robots are ordinary Earth machines brought to life by the power of the Allspark. Period. Full stop. However, Real Gear Robots also being the name of a toyline with the specific attributes Rotty notes, applying that term across the board to other examples, or possible examples, of this phenomenon does seem a bit iffy. Hmmmm. I think I would probably lean towards coming up with a different title for this article rather than to merge it with the toyline article. --KilMichaelMcC 17:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Everything relevant to the RGR subgroup needs to be moved there, just as we don't have an article "Mini-con" (or "Pretender") for the subgroup as a concept within the fiction and "Mini-cons" (or "Pretenders") that only describes the toys. -Rotty 17:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the discussion here should have been allowed to continue a bit before the article was deleted. I think I would have come down on the side against deletion. I can see the value in keeping this article, albeit moved to another title. Something like "Allspark-animated Earth machines." Real Gear Robots would be just one example of this phenomenon, and this article could cover the others without applying the toyline-specific term to them all. --KilMichaelMcC 18:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Is that even what the Chevy Autobots are? Derik didn't cite any source for his claim that they're ordinary Chevys animated by the Allspark. -Rotty 18:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I put them under probables because, though their nature isnt' really defined (a conciet of the game w're nto supposed ot look at too closely I think) they seem to be somehow Other than Bumblebee's clutch of Autobots- and BB refers to recruiting them.

Of course, Sphinx, Ridge, et al are also Chevy models... (albeit in different colors,) and they were wedged into the timeline. But I find that a lto easier to swallow than thousands of Autobots on Earth- who are all aparently newbies and have to undertake training under the generalship of Bumblebee.

There isn't any proof- but they're a great big "Bwuh?" that making them Allspark-animated 'new' Transformers fits perfectly.

(It's possible the game will reveal somethign new int hese newsbytes to change my mind- for all I know Flash and Ridge, the advance scouts who seem to have been working with the Chevy engineer, were somehow tied to their creation.) -Derik 20:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

"There isn't any proof- but they're a great big "Bwuh?" that making them Allspark-animated 'new' Transformers fits perfectly." Sure, that fits okay if you want to write a Rise of the Chevy Autobots-themed fanfic. It has no place on this Wiki, though. When something is confusing, like the presence of lots of Autobots on Earth before the movie starts, we don't get to make up explanations and call them 'probable' in an encyclopedia. Also, you keep claiming "Bumblebee refers to recruiting them", but I've been playing this game and I don't recall any reference to them not being Autobots already like you insist. Please cite sources. -Rotty 23:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

you keep claiming "Bumblebee refers to recruiting them", but I've been playing this game and I don't recall any reference...

"If every Chevy Autobot recruit is as persistent as you, we may actually win this war against the Decepticons." - Bumblebee, 05.09.2007 Transmission

"...the fight has begun. Decepticon Drones are attacking these sectors. You've had weeks to develop your skills and upgrade your powers. Now we put them to the test." - Bumblebee, 05.25.2007 Transmission

Oh snap! I went there! Isn't it wierd how he calls them 'Chevy Autobot recruits?' Not like they were Autobots he recruited to become Chevys... but almost like they were somehow Chevys first that he recruited to become Autobots... And he talks about training in his green recruits- not Autobot fighters gather from around the galaxy.

Oh and his first transmission, not meant for human eyes where he appeals for an army, includes a precis on Cybertron, the Autobots and Decepticons-- all things any Transformer from Cybertron would know (and thus it would be insane to include) but concepts a Transformer created on Earth would have no idea about.

Oh- and Optimus Prime explains who he is to the Chevy Autobots in terms of Bumblebee (his CO)- like they were some native army raised by an officer sent into find insurgents, and would know nothing about the great leader of the Autobots.

But, even with all the evidence pointing to the Chevy Autobots being native to Earth... you're right, there's really nothing to clinch them as RGR's. Oh- it'd be a logical explanation- but they'd also be the largest RGR's (the size of full Transformers,) and RGR's are usually random-- why are they all Chevy cars? So the possibility of them being RGR's should be a mere footnote... when discussing their Earthly origins. I had already moved them from 'probable' to merely 'ehh, could be' on the RGR page I'm editing before you posted.

I'm restoring Toaster's RGR tag though. Get the stick out of your ass. -Derik 00:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I can't even see the article that was apparently deleted? As Kil says, "Real Gear Robot" means TWO distinct things. One thing it means is a real-world "the toy subline" and the other is a fictional-world "Earth machines animated by the AllSpark". There is no need to have two different articles for this, but both meanings should be covered. It is not at all a stretch to use the term to refer to fictional transforming devices which are known to have been animated by the AllSpark. Dewbot might be a RGR, or he might be a Cybertronian, as noted in his article. This movie toaster we're all talking about, which I actually don't even know what it is, if it was brought to life by the AllSpark, is most definitely a Real Gear Robot going by the definition given by copy for the toyline. --Steve-o 21:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Article Title

Okay, I've now got an article Toaster (Movie). As he appears to be a Read Gear Robot who is not a toy... that means either the Real Gear Robots article has to also cover the concept behind the robots (as Micromaster does,) or we need another name for these guys for it's own article. (Steve-O seems to support the former.)

For the moment I've moved Real Gear Robots to Real Gear Robot, bringing it in line to naming conventions used on pages such as Pretender. Sadly, I no longer have the article that used to be here- so if whoever deleted it would be so kind as to fold the general description ad timeline notes back in here (since I no longer remember which RGR I referenced for that, and I had to look it up,) by all means, please fold them back into this article-- 'cuz I ain't lookin' 'em up again on my own. -Derik 22:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I restored the original article here for you. --Suki Brits 22:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll fold it in now. -Derik 22:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, now that the Toaster article is up... It is speculation to call him a RGR. He might be a Cybertronian. There's not really any basis for making that judgement, aside from saying that the number of actual Cybertronians on Earth in the movie-verse seems to be pretty small. But for all we know the commericial is not strictly in-continuity with the film, but is more of a micro-continuity branching off from it. Personally I don't mind listing him as "probably" a RGR, but we do need to be careful not to declare him so without more evidence. The movie itself will, I assume, have a bunch of actual RGRs that we can make amusing little articles about. --Steve-o 22:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I am cognizant of the need to be cautious about such lebels- but his small size, non-verbal nature, lack of clear faction affiliation, and altmode as a piece of domestic hardware all point him being a RGR. Even movie Scorponok is non-verbal by choice... Toaster just babbles. Cybertronian doesn't fit for all the reasons RgR does.

It is difficult to have this conversation without discussing spoilers for the movie. Have you read the novelization? (or summaries of the events relevant to RGR's) -Derik 22:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

All of the RGRs have clear faction affiliations. --ItsWalky 22:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

"Your new robotic companion SPEED DIAL 800 is a hyperactive fast-talker" --M Sipher 22:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand your point. He has an Autobot symbol on him, and two more on the front of his packaging. How is his allegiance not understood? --ItsWalky 00:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I think Sipher is responding to the notion that RGRs don't really speak except in gibberish, which Speed Dial's write-up contradicts. It was a badly-placed reply. --Sntint 01:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler warning: Plot details follow. Please give an expiry date ({{spoiler|(story)|DATE}}) - either the date of the next episode/issue in the series or 30 days after release, whichever is sooner

The RGR robot toys are apparently older RGR's (one of their bios mentioned it has existed for several years.) They had been around long enough to mature, become individuals, and choose sides. The ones actually seen in the movie are feral killing machines with no allegiance. Toaster is only barely beyond that.

Is it- seriously- is it that complicated? The RGR toys are means to represen the phenomena of the creating-mindless-feral-machine-life as seen in the movie. As the RGR toys are not mindless killing machines, they must get better as time goes on. (Asshole-Simmons, at least in the novelization, says they're always mindless, so it's not likely the toy RGR's can be exceptions to the mindless rule-- and we saw no non-mindless RGR's when there were a bunch of them created at once either.)

...and if you were avoiding spoilers- sorry, but this deals squarely with them. -Derik 01:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

In both cases those are RGR's that have been around long enough to grow into more mature individuals. The ones seen will see in the movie are much closer to Toaster.

And at any rate, the deleted article addressed that contradiction. -Derik 22:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Are they ALL evil (and if not, why...)

After watching the film last night I made a comment wondering why all the RGR in the film were evil. My brother, who was with me at Botcon, said that the screenwriters explained it in their panel ( I missed that one). According to them since all modern Earth technology was derived from retro-engineering Megatron, all Transformers created from it are inherently evil war-like monsters. That works great for the film, of course, but gives us a bit of trouble with the Autobot RGRs in the anticillery material. Just not quite sure how to integrate the idea into the existing article.--ZacWilliam 00:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I assumed they were just feral, being born into completely capable bodies with no real minds developed yet.

And frankly, I'm not a big fan of author intent when it doesn't mesh with what actually made it on-screen. Or of declaring that 'decepticon schematics' are inherently evil- which seems like a pretty major change to the fundamentals of the ways Transformers works to infer from the loose thinking behind a minor plot point that never made it ononscreen and it better explained by something else. -Derik 00:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Not much to worry about really, the extra-film stuff definately negates the "Decepticon derived tech = evil robots" since we have plenty of Autobot RGRs out there, I just think the screenwriter's thought processes that shaped the film portrail at least deserve a mention. I guess a trivia factlet would be the best fit.--ZacWilliam 01:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I thought you were asking why...

That makes my response unnecessarily snippy now, doesn't it? Oh well, I'll just blame it on wading through all the idiots on the transformersgame.com forum. -Derik 01:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The writers had more than one panel, but at the one I went to their explanation was a little different -- the RGRs were mindless, not evil, because they were not built in such a way as to host/hold a spark and have consciousness. Sort of like... you can't just imbue a lump of matter with "life" and expect it to be sentient. It needs to have a brain capable of sentience. This still raises the same sort of problems with the toy RGRs, though. Also, I am starting to feel like we really need a different term to for the toy guys and the general concept "random machines animated by the AllSpark", but I don't know where to get one. --Steve-o 15:29, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I suspect we may not get a satisfying one. For now, I'd just use something like "machines animated by the AllSpark" or "animated machines" or the such for an article. If some secondary media gives us a better term later, we can switch to that, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. --Suki Brits 15:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with this notion. The explanation we are given for the RGR toyline is that they are Earth machines brought to life by the All Spark. Attempting to explain the discrepancy between the toys and the fiction and attempting to differentiate them strikes me as rather... fanficky. All we are presented with is that the All Spark can animate nonliving machines, and that the toyline gives them personalities and allegiences while the movie does not.

That being said, if we DO decide to propose an explanation, I would agree with the notion that the toy RGRs are just "older" and matured in time. Perhaps if you imbue a lump of matter with life, it is feral initially but given time it will... well, transform part of itself into a brain. Go figure.

I stand by my initial notion to *not* try and explain it, though. Use one article for both types, and simply point out the discrepancy in the write-up. --Sntint 16:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Sntint. The toyline fiction specifically defines Real Gear Robots as those brought to life from Earth machines by the Allspark. That's what the term means. Just because the different movie continuities (toyline/games vs. film) differ as to some of the minor details of their nature does not negate the usefulness or scope of the term.--ZacWilliam 16:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Chevy Autobots

*sigh* The Allspark Power line can't come fast enough to give us a name for Earth-born vehicle Transformers that isn't Derik. -Rotty 01:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

And when it does- we will doubtless port all the relevant sections of this article over to one for whatever that term is/will be. Removing items you don't like in the meantime not only makes the Wiki temporarily less accurate, it will make the content-port that you see forthcoming harder to do. Suffer.

By the way, when I said 'you need a better argument' I didn't mean just for using a better term. There is a better argument to be made for why the Chevy Autobots, for reasons alluded to in the text, were not animated by the Allspark. (It dawned on me the other day.) Unfortunately that reason depends on both authorial intentionality and story elements from earlier drafts of the movie script that were abandoned (and thus invalid) so it's completely inappropriate to document as fact on this wiki. Mwahahahaha!

...go write a Chevy Autobots article and I'll put my reason in as a trivia entry. You can lobby as you see fit to yoink the Chevys from the RGR article based on whatever leverage it gives you to formulate a a better argument for removal. (I don't insist that the CA's be RGR's, I just never thought you presented a logical alternative before-- this does, mired in redacted plot elements though it be.) -Derik 02:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

"Removing items you don't like in the meantime not only makes the Wiki temporarily less accurate, it will make the content-port that you see forthcoming harder to do. Suffer."

Don't you dare tell me what to do, Derik. Even if you hadn't been useless to this Wiki from the beginning, you have absolutely no right to speak to me in imperative sentences. People frequently insult you both to your face and behind your back for the gibberish you spout and then revert when sane people try to undo the edits that spew out of your brain and into your fingers. I'm struggling to think of any reason you don't deserve that. You're so useless, you haven't even voted for the Wiki you do your best to ruin in the Featured Wiki voting going on right now. So now I'm going to edit out all your mental diarrhea about Real Gear Robots, because things have just gotten beyond ridiculous with you. -Rotty 02:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Catching up

All the fun happened while I was waiting for the movie to come out, when Derik had read the novelization apparently for the sole purpose of getting to run roughshod over the wiki. So now the movie's out, I've seen it, we've all seen it, and I'd like to be able to comment without having it all buried in threads from weeks before the movie was out.

1. What justification do we have for calling all Allspark-animated-on-Earth robots Real Gear Robots? Is it not every bit as likely that the term applies only to a small group of robots being repackaged and resold as consumer goods, as is the case with the toyline? Are all Transformers not Allspark-animated? Would G1 Jetfire qualify as a Real Gear Robot? It just seems like a really bizarre distinction, and the use of the term seems like fanficking.

2. I have no problem with the notion that the Chevy Autobots were animated on Earth, but I think they're the example that makes the Real Gear term silly. "Gear", in this context, denotes personal equipment; "equipment consisting of miscellaneous articles needed for a particular operation or sport etc.", as per Princeton's WordNet. No human has ever used "gear" to refer to an automobile. Chip 02:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

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