Talk:Bug Bite (GoBots)

The GoBots That Time Forgot

Bug Bite had a single appearance on the GoBots 'toon, and I have an okay summary of it. But... uh, where would it go, if at all? A GoBots Cartoon subheader? Or are we not getting into that kinda thing? --Monzo 00:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

While an episode summary is not a good idea, a Trivia note on Bug Bite's role in the old GoBots cartoon (and its coincidental similarity to how he turned out in GoD) is certainly fine.

Man, I wish we had a better main image for this page than the combined bio card... but since that's the only official art of his "first" body... --M Sipher 01:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Parsing

The Games of Deception preview pages parses it "Bug Bite." Hoo-ha. Can I re-redirect? --ItsWalky 06:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

About to say.. wasn't it "Bug Bite" originally? I would not be remotely shocked to see it officially parsed as both two words and one (wonder what the packaging says), but if we have both and the ORIGINAL ORIGINAL is two words, I'd go with two. --M Sipher 06:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Damn straight! Back to the real spelling! --ItsWalky 06:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

why was it ever not bug Bite in the first place? There couldn't have been an established romanization from the e-hobby set. Mere oversight? -Derik 11:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I assume you're asking about why this article was at Bugbite, one word? Well, it started out as two words, but the BotCon website announcement of the exclusive has it as a single word, so the article was moved to match that. (If you're actually asking why the BotCon website has it as a single word when the comic parses it as two, then yeah, probably an oversight.) --KilMichaelMcC 13:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Number of Timelines Bug Bite toys made

The Wiki entry says 1500. I assume that this comes from the number 1100 (as indicated on the "certificate of authenticity" regarding the box sets) and 400 (the number of loose sets we were told were made). Yet, the number on the certificate (1100) is at variance with both an e-mail sent by Brian Savage on May 4 (which also confirmed the number of loose sets at 400) and the notice put up at www.botcon.com on that same date, both of which said 1050 box sets were made. Naturally, this would make the total number of toys 1450. I'm inclined to believe that the certificate is in error, but if anyone has more solid information, I'd certainly welcome it.--G.B. Blackrock 21:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused as to how many Primus packages were sold this year before they sold out, since there are also the non-attendee box sets to account for. -Rotty 22:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I certainly don't pretend to know how many are "Primus" (attendee) sets and how many are "Iacon" (non-attendee) sets, but since they're physically the same, I'm not sure it matters. There were 1050 (or 1100, depending on which source is to be believed) box sets. That's "Primus" and "Iacon" together. The 400 loose sets were available to either one, equally. "Primus" buyers weren't given preference over "Iacon" buyers on loose sets.--G.B. Blackrock 23:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not relevant to Bug Bite, it's just something one would like to know if they got paid the same day they stopped allowing you to buy a Primus package because the box sets were sold out. -Rotty 23:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

*asks of the club forum* -Derik 00:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Just bringing this up again, as I don't know that it was ever resolved. I don't want to change the entry, since I don't know that the 1450 figure is any more accurate, but if we're going to state 1500, we really ought to be 100% sure that it's the right number.--G.B. Blackrock 23:08, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Or at least footnote how that number is being reached rather than simply asserting it. -Derik 23:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Profile pic

I know it's not the first body, but is it all right if I scan the Bug Bite profile art from the Timelines comic? Someone as important as he is shouldn't have to share his profile art with five other dudes. Either that, or we should make a special case and zoom in on that corner of the art for his image. --ItsWalky 06:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I think I'd prefer the latter. --M Sipher 07:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate Zac's effort at cropping, the art itself looks pretty bad blown up to that size. Mayhaps someone who owns the GoBots set can do a bigger scan of the card to make for a better source image? --Monzo 20:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

OH HEY I just remembered that Fun Publications asked me to draw art of First Body Bug Bite that ended up not being published. So, uh. Maybe???? --ItsWalky (talk) 21:25, 31 December 2020 (EST)

presuming i can find it anyway --ItsWalky (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2020 (EST)

Date of Bug Bite's Appearance

Does Bug Bite's exposition or specs (I can't find my comic or his spec card) state specifically that he arrived in the TF universe shortly before the first Ark crash? If not, there were a total of three major crashes on Earth: The One 4 million years ago, the one in issue #78, and the one in G2. Since He crops up in the Classics universe that rules out the G2 crash, but wouldn't it seem a little more likely that Bug Bite showed up in 1991 rather than in 4 million BC? Assuming, of course, the timeframes of the two universes are aligned with each other.

Since the Gobots universe isn't imploding during the course of its cartoon run we can only assume that the doom of that unvierse occured after the end of its fictional run, which would appear to be around 1986.

Also, Pete Sinclair told me that it was the second crash they were referring to, so that's got author intent. I don't know how applicable a one-on-one correspondence is in that regard. --Trent

Earthrise cartoon coverage

As the page stands, covering Bug Bite's exploits in the Earthrise cartoon accidentally creates a false narrative that implies the Gobots fella has once again jumped universes and become a Mercenary. While the Earthrise toy is undoubtedly representative of the club fiction character (I think initial ad copy called him out as such?), as far as I know there's no evidence that the ER fiction also presents him as a hidden Renegade. The way I see it is that there's two options here. First is the creation of a Bug Bite (G1) page that covers the ER cartoon and toy, much like the various High Moon game-inspired toys are on both G1 and Aligned character pages. The alternative to this is a rewrite of this page to be similar to the various Targetmaster pages that cover the character broadly while acknowledging varying origins, i.e. "In some universes Bug Bite is a Gobot refugee, in others he is a Cybertronian Mercenary".

My chief concern if no action is taken is that it creates a dangerous precedence for making similar assumptions, like stating that Crasher in the recent IDW2 comics is also a Gobot refugee, or adding notes to the Unspace episodes of Cyberverse positing that it must take place Pre-Shroud due to multiversal travel taking place. Star Spangled Sam (talk) 09:49, 1 January 2021 (EST)

We have different Cy-Kill pages for G1 and GoBots Cy-Kills. What makes Bug Bite any different? Voxel (talk) 10:01, 1 January 2021 (EST)

Earthrise Bug Bite isn't a universe-travelling GoBot and therefore is from a different continuity family. That's the straightforward logic that's been maintained on this wiki for more than a decade. Saix (talk) 12:31, 1 January 2021 (EST)

I personally believe that a separate page should be made. As Saix said, the character is clearly from a different continuity and origin, as there are no ties to the Earthrise version having any prior GoBot affiliation. Unless something is mentioned in Kingdom that indicates he's the same guy or a creator is able to come out and give us some form of author's intent as closure, I feel he should be treated separately until further notice. Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 15:51, 1 January 2021 (EST)

IMO, Earthrise Bug Bite stands apart from, say, Cy-Kill and Crasher and people making IDW appearances, due to him being a new version of the "GoBot Bug Bite disguised as a Transformer" toy. We merged G1 Sky-Byte and RID01 Sky-Byte, for example, because it was silly to have some Sky-Byte G1 stories on one page and other Sky-Byte G1 stories on another page, based on the happenstance of whether the story was from the US or Japan. It seems similarly silly to split appearances of "Bug Bite the white G1 Bumblebee" based on the happenstance of what their backstory is. We don't split out the robotic Targetmasters from Ladybird Books or whatever, this seems like the exact same situation to me? Jalaguy (talk) 16:07, 1 January 2021 (EST)

I'm 100% with Jalaguy here. --M Sipher (talk) 19:08, 1 January 2021 (EST)

I'm for the split to keep it consistent with Crasher and Cy-Kill but if that doesn't happen, the page has to change bc it absolutely reads off that he decided to disguise himself as a Cybertronian mercenary --notirishman (talk) 16:22, 1 January 2021 (EST)

Agreed, it's almost relying too much on fanfiction and speculation to make everything marry up, which really doesn't work too great. Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 18:03, 1 January 2021 (EST)

I still stand by the split, but I just thought of something else we may want to factor in. Movie Landmine is stated to be from Cybertronian origins in some fiction while others make him an AllSpark Mutation, yet both are still listed on the page as the same guy despite completely different origins. Also, toy bios sometimes differ heavily from fiction too but are still listed on the same pages. These are possibly irrelevant comparisons, but just a little something that I think should be taken into consideration when making final judgement. Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 19:43, 1 January 2021 (EST)

The species in itself isn’t relevant here. It’s that GoBots are from another continuity family as determined by wiki categorization and we’ve always split based on that, regardless of similarity in design and characterization. IDW Knock Out, all of the one-off BWU reuses, etc. Saix (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2021 (EST)

I would argue that (a) not all continuity families were created equal - GoBots is a fundamentally different beast in the context of Transformers than G1 or UT or whatever - and (b) the wiki made up continuity families anyway, so we don't have to be beholden to them.

IMO the fact that Bug Bite is a GoBot helps make it a different situation to IDW Knock Out or whatever. He's an outside crossover character. If tomorrow there was a new Spider-Man/G1 Transformers crossover, and Spider-Man was explicitly shown to come through a portal from Earth-616, would we put him on a different page to the Marvel and IDW Spider-Men, who are shown as native inhabitants of the G1 universes they appear in? No, because that would be silly and pedantic! I sincerely believe the same logic applies here, and that splitting "G1 GoBot" Bug Bite (i.e. the specific thing of a white G1 Bumblebee called Bug Bite) based on backstory is also silly and pedantic. Jalaguy (talk) 05:28, 2 January 2021 (EST)

On the other hand, Bug Bite originally was just a white Bumblebee, named after a GoBots character as a reference; it wasn't until the BotCon story three years later that they turned the name reference into an explicit crossover by making him ACTUALLY the GoBot he was named for. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:21, 2 January 2021 (EST)

Would that not support Jala's point? (And that's not true, the "dimension hopping GoBot" lore dates back to the e-Hobby set.) --Riptide (talk) 10:17, 2 January 2021 (EST)

I mean, it's not UNtrue. The actual final toy set is purposefully vague about character details. It basically just says "yeah these six are from another dimension and took Transformer forms to blend in." None of the characters are named anywhere; the names came from ONE single photoshopped preproduction piece that was deleted before the set was released. Really, the only thing that implies they're Tonka/HB GoBots before the FP fiction is that the set was named "Gobots" and uh... that was a name already used twice before in G1-based TF. Which I... think the bio card even implied these were where the G2 Go-Bots got their origin... but anyway, again I 100% agree with Jalaguy said. --M Sipher (talk) 23:15, 2 January 2021 (EST)

To go off of Jalaguy's statement about the Spider-Man thing, that comparison doesn't work. Spider-Man will always be listed on a single page on TFWiki due to him always going to be a crossover character. He is a Marvel superhero first, despite any cameos he makes and whether he already existed in that universe. G.I. Joe characters would fit into that category also. I'm sure we can agree that at this point GoBots have more or less lost their crossover status in the Transformers brand. That's not to say there aren't still GoBots that are crossover characters, but most uses of GoBots now are just the names and designs being reassigned to create new Transformers characters. What we're dealing with here is a crossover character who hopped dimensions into a G1 Transformers continuity, while the other is a Transformers character from a G1 continuity. Other than the physical appearance being that of what appeared in the e-Hobby and Club fiction based on the original repaints, there is nothing else connecting the two. I feel a more appropriate comparison to counter your point would be RID 2001 Optimus Prime appearing in the Cybertron comic. They both have the same name, they both share similar design cues, they both turn into fire trucks, they were both released in the Cybertron toyline and one also crossed from his home continuity into a Cybertron continuity, therefore making them both Optimus Prime's existing in the same continuity family. Despite them both having entirely different origins, they both appeared in Cybertron fiction and the toyline, so going by the Bug Bite logic wouldn't that mean those Optimus Prime pages should be merged too? Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 08:34, 3 January 2021 (EST)

For reference, here's the original bio card from the G1 GoBots set, from Soundwave's Oblivion:

"These are the first group of robots on Cybertron to call themselves ”Gobots." Equipped with completely standard outward appearances and transformation functions of transformers, they are, in fact, undercover operatives of a species that came from a completely different universe. They are a special-duties unit comprised of initially opposing powers who joined forces to save their brethren from a crisis threatening to destroy their home world. Even as they conduct such secret activities on Seibertron as intelligence-gathering, diplomacy, and dimensional interference experiments, they have brought technologies such as their distinctive transporter devices and biomechanical engineering to this world, contributing to the birth of new generations of transformers like the Spychangers."

So it is clear that the the intention was always that they were GoBots of the Tonka variety, even with the names removed, with the mention of "opposing powers," "distinctive transporter devices," and "biomechanical engineering." Escargon (talk) 10:17, 3 January 2021 (EST)

Earthrise cartoon coverage part 2

Since the last discussion had gotten pretty long, I thought I would start fresh here.

I happened to be browsing the Generations Selects listings that are still up on Hasbro Pulse for wiki-related info (obviously not for the toys, as most of you know I'm from New Zealand, so the website is practically useless to me). Anyways, I happened to notice Bug Bite's listing mentions him being based off of the WFC Trilogy cartoon character and makes no mention of his previous incarnations from BotCon (or GoBots) like most GS listings on Pulse tend to (e.g. Artfire or G2 Ramjet). Further, much like the linked examples, it doesn't even mention the colour inspiration from the BotCon or e-Hobby toys. If you look through all of the other Hasbro GS listings that are still up, the recurring theme is always to include a history behind the characters; a description of who the character is and the significance behind them that makes them a "special edition" toy (whether it be the original toys being Japanese exclusive, an unreleased deco or just the first new version of the character since the 80s/90s).

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that Hasbro appears to be treating this as an entirely new character, rather than a different version or interpretation of an existing character, which seems rather plausible, since this Bug Bite is a Transformer NOT a GoBot. The TakaraTomy Soundblaster listing also makes mention of him being more or less a new version of the same individual from the Dreamwave comics (likely due to our categorizing and the similar origins) and doesn't mention the Japanese Soundblaster origins at all.

The tl;dr of all of this: with the information given to us, it seems pretty clear that Hasbro interprets this as a new individual and has made absolutely no attempt to even connect the two concepts, which to me, is pretty much no different to Barricade (G1) and Barricade (IDW). -- Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

I feel like Hasbro is the kind of company that wouldn't want to say "We based this toy off the look of a character who originated from outside of Transformers in one of our former competitor's lines and was later brought into Transformers through sneaky means" and so just chose to not give Bug Bite's listing any sort of character history because of how unorthodox his history really is. --Sabrblade (talk) 10:52, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

They could have still made mention of the e-Hobby or BotCon toys while ignoring the GoBots side of things, but they didn't, and it's not like Hasbro to not make mention of their (or Takara's) older products to some degree, especially when that has always been the case with the other listings. -- Fanofcoolstuff27 (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

No, Sabrblade's likely correct. It's way more likely than Hasbro thinking they're passing off a new character. --ItsWalky (talk) 20:15, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

Split

Alright, now we're covering more honest-to-god yellow GoBot Bug Bite material... Saix (talk) 14:23, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

I'm tentatively not opposed in the long run, but I'd like to get one more fictional appearance of not-supposed-to-be-a-GoBot Bug Bite first. One deviation from the norm can be chalked up as an exception; two or more is a pattern and easier to build an argument for a split. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:47, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Main pic

Shouldn't his main pic still be the eHobby art? That was his first body within any TF merchandise or continuity. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 14:32, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Our official policy, to my knowledge, is "the appearance used for a character's first toy takes priority", except for in exceptional cases like The Fallen. Bugbite's first toy was the GoBot, even if it wasn't in the Transformers toyline. Plus it just makes sense. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 14:41, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

In that case Matt Trakker would be white and Rom would be his 1970s character model. We go by their order-of-release-within-TFs appearance. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Trakker isn't white and Rom isn't 70s in their Transformers appearances. As Scioli's Go-Bots is a Transformers story AND Bugbite there is based on his original toy design, that's the version that gets the mainpic. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 14:54, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Bug Bite was the white Bumblebee in TF appearances for over a decade before the Scioli book - it is chronologically his first release within the TF universe. Otherwise we might as well make BW Megatron's main pic be any of his flashback bodies (Darksyde, TM3). That is never how we have worked. If Bug Bite from the FP stories is going to share a page with RR/Scioli Bug Bite, then the former should get the main pic. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 15:02, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Again, *first toy*, something which doesn't apply to your Megatron examples; you'd have been better served suggesting he be an alligator as a counterargument. And even then, our own help documentation suggests common sense should rule in situations where our existing standards only serve to confuse the issue, hence why Megs isn't shown as an alligator. And as far as I'm concerned, common sense dictates that GoBots should look like GoBots. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:10, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Common sense says 2004 came before 2018 and that three white Bumblebee toys are more than the zero yellow Bandai VWs ever released as Transformers by Hasbro or Takara. Those same help docs emphasize "avoiding confusion." How does it avoid confusion to highlight the body that Transformers Bug Bite used last, and for the least amount of time? --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 15:24, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

I agree with using the original body. Escargon (talk) 15:36, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Obviously, I agree with Cyberlink. If nothing else, this allows both bodies to be near the top of the article as opposed to scrolling down to the end of the page to see Bug Bite's actual appearance. Saix (talk) 15:36, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Seems legit to me. --Jimsorenson (talk) 19:30, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

While White Bumblebee Bug Bite is certainly an iconic look by now and used prominently, using the original bodies for all the GoBots is the best way to have consistency for their mainpics without resorting to funpub virtual redecos for everyone except the 5 guys from the Takara minibot pack.

MrRald (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2021 (EDT)

Split Part 2

Yep, it's time to revisit this. And now that Cyberverse Bug Bite exists and proves Hasbro is just going to use the name for all white Bumblebee decos going forward regardless of GoBot origins, it makes more sense than ever to just split the non-GoBot stuff off than wring our hands over whether it's "close enough". -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 12:55, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

I agree Kiddiecraft

100%. This article is trying to tread the line between two different characters (especially now that more GoBots content has been added since then) and it's not working. Saix (talk) 12:59, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

Bug Bites is the same. —The Wadapan (talk) 13:00, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

I support a split. MrRald (talk) 13:03, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

I also support spliting the article. Cyberverse Bug Bite really cements that the WFC Merc should be spun off into a separate article. - Archforce (talk) 13:09, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

Split. "Actually a GoBot disguised as a Transformer" should be as distinguishing as "Shattered Glass," in terms of something that can't merge into another origin. Though I still say the main pic for GoBots Bug Bite should be reverted to the eHobby / Fun Pub body. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2021 (EDT)

Well maybe not (SG), as Shattered Expectations introduced a heroic Shattered Glass Bug Bite, that looked exactly like regular Bug Bite.—DDog (talk) 13:40, 6 November 2021 (EDT)