User talk:76.213.224.139

May I ask what your problem is? -- SFH 05:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

My best guess is this is Floro himself who is completely outraged that anyone but him would get credited for design work on Transformers. After all this is the guy who claims Takara's Diaclone Planet Robo design was stolen from the Unicron design he'd make years later. --Detour 05:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we're worth the real Floro Dery's time.--Rosicrucian^Talk 05:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you've noticed his past track record. Clearly, we are. (We are also racist robots.) --M Sipher 05:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem and I am not Floro. My name is Charlie Alvarado, a Transformers fan. Your are the one who has a problem posting speculative informations without supporting visual evidence. - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.224.139 (talk • contribs).

Hi Floro. We've got Shohei's art posted on his article, it can't get more visually evident than that. And where is your visual evidence that our information is wrong? --Detour 14:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

It's useles to continue arguing without resolving and answering the following questions:

1. Why George Dunsay in his interview said that Takara and Hasbro were not involved in the creative concept of the transforming planet?

2. Why Mr. Dery and Hiroyuki were given credits in the 1989 Japanese Transformers movie version?

3. Why Mr. Dery is given credit and Hiroyuki has no credit in the 1986 US Transformers movie version?

4. Why the Unicron design of Hiroyuki that is posted here is not dated?

5. Why the alleged claim that the posted cartoon designs here were done by Shohei when in fact the cartoons were designed by Mr. Dery in 1984 which were published by Marvel people recently in the book Transformers: Ark according to Joshua Chapman? Here's the Amazon website

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1600100805?showViewpoints=1

6. Why the alleged Shohei's cartoon designs posted here is not dated?

7. Why the incredible misinformations in these website?

- Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.224.139 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 7 January 2008.

The drawings of Shohei's are based on Mr. Dery's cartoon designs compiled in the Transformers: Ark. Besides Shohei's drawings are not dated. Hiroyuki's design is also not dated. DATE is the litmus test.

The book OLD ART from STUFF BEFORE TRANSFORMERS, there is no such book. Don't invent. Assuming there is such a book, OLD ART of what?

You people are contradicting George Dunsay who said that TAKARA is not involved in the design of the transforming planet, which proved that Mr. Dery is the originator of the transforming planet Unicron.

You people proved nothing, in fact you have shown that your articles are just SPECULATIONS and MISINFORMATIONS to twist the truth. Why?

For your information, I e-mailed the guy maintaining the website of Mr. Dery, offering Mr. Dery that I will finance and publish his original colored Transformers designs as an art book. If Mr. Dery agrees, I will let you people know. I am thinking of a book title that will drive you people crazy.

I posted here because you blocked my other IP address. I proved that all of you are wrong and confused, so you blocked my IP.

Pity, but no thanks for all your insults directed against me. But I am not surprise because, generally, those who cannot win the arguments usually use insults to silence their opponents

- Charlie

Hello, my name is Floro Dery, and I inventend Transformers. In fact, I invented robots long before Japan ever even heard of them.

I also invented Hasbro. And Takara.--Nevermore 00:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm Floro Dery! - Chris McFeely 00:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Guys, if this guy wants to rant to his audience of one, let him. We have better things to do. -- SFH 00:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

How dare you say that to me, Floro Dery. Clearly, you're just a racist. - Chris McFeely 00:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Hasbro and Takara were not involved in the creation of Unicron. Everyone here agrees that Floro created Unicron. What he didn't do is create the concept of a transforming planet. That concept was created by someone at Takara before 1985. That "Japanese Unicron" is not Unicron, and was not created for Transformers; the art from the book the scan was taken from is about Takara action figure lines from before 1985, and therefore predates the movie. Floro may have very well came up with the idea of a transforming planet on his own; he just wasn't the first to put the idea to paper.

2. Floro made the animation models. Hiroyuki was likely involved in the Japanese localization (This consisted of translating the script, recording new voice tracks, and adding Japanese credits. Nothing else was changed)

3. Hiroyuki was probably only involved in the Japanese localization, and would therefore not be included in the credits from the original (READ: English Language) version.

4. It is a scan of concept art. Any dates or other information included on the sheet are not part of the actual concept art and therefore would not be included in any compilations.

5. Floro Dery made the character models actually used in the cartoon. However, those were simplified (read: easier to animate) versions of the ones made by Shohei.

6. It is a scan of a character model. Any dates or other information included on the sheet are not part of the actual character model and therefore would not be included in any compilations.

7. If you can find a mistake that can be verified with more then "HE TELL ME" (IE, something that has been published, or an interview transcript), be free to fix it.

8. No, I'm Floro Dery, and I invented Japan and the concept of toys. --FortMax 00:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

9. I just got Edit Conflicted'd three times trying to make this post.

I know this basically repeats a lot of what FortMax just said, but I spent a while typing it, so darned if I'll let it go to waste. (Besides, I probably was one reason he got an Edit Conflict, and vice-versa.)

Let's see, point by point...

The drawings of Shohei's are based on Mr. Dery's cartoon designs compiled in the Transformers: Ark.

And the proof of this is...? You have offered comments on the some of the process involved in the creation of Mr. Dery's designs. None of this proves whether or not the Japanese designs were based on his. However, the comparison picture shown here seems to indicate Mr. Dery in fact simplified some of Mr. Kohara's designs.

Besides Shohei's drawings are not dated. Hiroyuki's design is also not dated. DATE is the litmus test.

If no date is available for a piece of art, that does not negate its worth for the argument. It's very helpful, yes, but not the one and only means of proof.

The book OLD ART from STUFF BEFORE TRANSFORMERS, there is no such book. Don't invent. Assuming there is such a book, OLD ART of what?

This is obviously a description of a book, not a title, yet you are making fun of it because it doesn't sound like a real title. You are using very poor arguing tactics and insulting people by accusing them of lying about the book's existence. In short, you are doing just what you accuse others here of doing. Pity, pity.

The book in question is Takara SF Land Archives (Takara SF Land Daizenshuu, タカラSFランド大全集), published by Kodansha in November 1999. As you can see from the cover image here, it contains images and information on various Takara-original SF toy lines from the 1970s and early 1980s, including Henshin Cyborg, Magnemo, Microman (including Microchange), and Diaclone. All these toy lines predate Transformers. The last two toy lines were the primary source of toy designs for the original TF line from 1984-1985, and even 1986 (e.g., Ultra Magnus). Scattered throughout the book's pages are illustrations showing design art for various Takara toys from those toy lines, along with concept art of toys that were never produced...such as the Planet-Robot drawn by Mr. Hataike.

You people are contradicting George Dunsay who said that TAKARA is not involved in the design of the transforming planet, which proved that Mr. Dery is the originator of the transforming planet Unicron.

It's likely Mr. Dery did design Unicron. That does NOT mean he created the idea of a transforming planet. There is a distinct difference.

You people proved nothing, in fact you have shown that your articles are just SPECULATIONS and MISINFORMATIONS to twist the truth. Why?

The articles here have provided more visual proof than you have, and argued their case better. Regardless of how people have responded to you personally, the articles themselves present their material quite well. Of course, your biggest gripe of "misinformation" seems to be that the articles claim Mr. Dery didn't design Unicron. They do not claim this. They suggest he did not create the idea of a transforming planet, which is something else entirely. As evidence to support this suggestion, they provide an image from a book about Takara toys that predate TFs.

For your information, I e-mailed the guy maintaining the website of Mr. Dery, offering Mr. Dery that I will finance and publish his original colored Transformers designs as an art book. If Mr. Dery agrees, I will let you people know.

I think that would actually be a pretty cool project.

I am thinking of a book title that will drive you people crazy.

So you'd risk alienating part of your potential readership?

I posted here because you blocked my other IP address. I proved that all of you are wrong and confused, so you blocked my IP.

Your other IPs were blocked because posting from multiple IPs was cluttering the wiki and, in combination with your belligerent attitude, it made you look trollish. All you have to do is register for an account on the wiki; that would solve the problem neatly.

Pity, but no thanks for all your insults directed against me. But I am not surprise because, generally, those who cannot win the arguments usually use insults to silence their opponents

The same can be said for people who cannot win by stubbornly and angrily repeating unsupported claims, and so resort to condescension and self-righteousness when they find they've irritated others.--Apcog 01:35, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

---

I know from your article here that Mr. Dery was the design supervisor of the original series. Assuming that he simplified the simplified drawings of Shohei, then what will his assistants be doing? Are these assistants be simplifying the simplified drawings of Mr. Dery from the simplified drawings of Shohei? This is foolish, isn't it? Marvel studio producer is not an idiot to allow such thing. This shows that Shohei was the one who copied Mr. Dery's cartoon designs.

So, the Japanese book was published in 1999 and the Transformers movie came out in 1986, probably the transforming planet Unicron designs of Mr. Dery were done in 1985. That's a difference of almost 15 years.

Truly, you inadvertently proved that Mr. Dery was the originator of the transforming planet Unicron, Hiroyuki is just a copycat. Also, George Dunsay was right that Takara was not involved in the design of the transforming planet Unicron. You see, what matters is the DATE because the date is the LITMUS TEST.

I will e-mail your post here to the guy maintaining the website of Mr. Dery, to let them know about this things.

Thank you very much, you also proved that all my posts here are right and your allegations are wrong.

- Charlie

a book called the ark came out last year and it featured all of dery's animation models since the japanese book came out in 1999 and the book with dery's art came out in 2007 that means the japanese design predates dery's design by 8 years!

From Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki, a Wikia wiki.