Talk:Primus

Organization

I think this needs reformating. Right now all entries focus on the current Primus/Unicron backstory, even the one on the Marvel Comics where the backstory was notably different (and had several versions in itself).

Do we want to focus the whole entry on the current multiversal paradigm and add previous Primus backstory as continuity notes? Or do we want to tell each version of the story as its own section of the entry? ZacWilliam 19:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Considering the current Primus' backstory IS all the previous Primus material all streamlined into one entity, I think we should open with that. Otherwise, we're going to have two nigh-identical halves in the same article, one half being a retelling of the other half. It is a retcon, after all, of which Transformers has many, and we have accepted previous ones pretty easily. (IE, Vector Sigma vs. Quints creating the TFs in the cartoon.) Of course, we should note, as it does now, that this is the current "dogma" of sorts, that inconsistencies exist -- and in the subchapters for each continuity, we should tell it as it was. --ItsWalky 21:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. Where should the stuff about him creating the Covenant of Primus (the group) before Cybertron go? Universe cause it's botcon related? or near the begining with the general stuff? Also, Timelines stuff happening at the same time as Cybertron seperate entry or together with the general Cybertron one?

I would say the Covenant of Primus (the 12) should go in Universe. The 13 (which includes Vector Prime and The Fallen) should probably be added somewhere in the beginning. --ItsWalky 23:10, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The Fan Club comic

For the last time, the comic in the fan club magazine is a CYBERTRON comic. It says so at the top of every issue. It's not labelled Timelines. It takes place in the Unicron Trilogy universe. --ItsWalky 03:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Primus sucked??

Says under "War of the Ballance" that Primus was sucked into the black hole limbo with Unicron. Did I miss something or shouldn't that be the Fallen was sucked in with Uni, not Primus? --ZacWilliam 21:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it should. Corrected. -King Starscream 14:10, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The God of the Cybertrons

In the second episode of Beast Wars Neo, Big Convoy and crew head to planet God Bless to look for an Angolmois capsule. The effect of this particular capsule is that anyone who comes near it "sees" their god, which the Destrons use to exploit the cat-people of God Bless into making oil for them. When Big Convoy and co. come into the picture, they see an illusion of "the God of the Cybertrons"... who is a gigantic Great Convoy.

Great God!

I'm wondering where this would go. At the moment, I'm thinking in Primus's Trivia section, but I'd like some opinions. They don't call it Primus by name, but Beast Wars itself had references to Primus... of course, I don't know how Japan handled those. --Monzo 14:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd put that in God of the Autobots. Primus didn't exist in Japanese continuity until Energon, so it'd be horribly misleading to put it in this article. It's certainly possible for other Cybertronian gods to co-exist with Primus. Interrobang 23:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

And we need a God Bless article, dammit. Interrobang 23:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I strongly object to placing a GotC article in God of the Auobots, since as used it would almost certainly be better translated as 'God of the Maximals.' Japan's obnoxious decision to give the new factions the old names contributes to their marginalization of the con/pred changeover. BW-era is NOT JUST G!-ERA LATER IN THE FUTURE. THERE HAVE BEEN FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES, RRAUGH, DERIK SMASH!-Derik 00:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

To be perfectly correct (and to avoid big arguments like Talk: Lio Convoy, I'd say we go with the whacky name and have it at God of the Cybertrons. It's a Japanese-only concept. We might as well give it the appropriate Japanese name.--Rosicrucian 00:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

That seems wise. -Derik 02:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, the thing is - as I vaguely suggested at - Beast Wars had references to Primus, and Beast Wars was dubbed into Japanese, ergo there may have been references to Primus in J-BW. The problem is, with the wacky dub of the show, I have no way of knowing if those references were kept. A quick search of the scripts indicates that there were references to Primus in Bad Spark, Transmutate and Agenda 3, at least, which would have all been part of Metals. I guess I can try poking around Japanese TF pages for Metals episode reviews... --Monzo 00:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Even if they were kept, they wouldn't have reached Japan until a year after Neo ended. If the Neo writers were aware of/'doing' Primus, he would have appeared in some context with Unicron, not a 1-off gag image generated by the unaware-of-Unicron Predacons.

Treat it liek what it was intended to be and what it was-- something to intended to insult the Maximals. A Maximal elder dressed in clothes even more Ornate than Great Convoy's proclaiming hismelf their god. The Ask Big Convoy thing mentions the elders are basically ministers of Cybertron's theology-- the preds are MOCKING the ir leaders, values and way of life. Calling it anything else requires distorting the scene into something it's not.

Besides- are you honestly tryign to say that Primus is only god of the Autobots/Maximals? Not the Predacons? That all Predacons are satanists? -Derik 02:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

... what? Even though the Preds used the illusion of the Cat God of God Bless to get oil from the, uh, God Blessians, I don't think they had any control over what people saw at all. The Maximals sure didn't react as if it were a parody - they weren't even aware that it was an illusion. The recruits were figuratively wetting themselves because they thought they were seeing their God.

Ages ago, I made sound clips from the episode and had a native speaker listen to them, trying to figure out the nature of the God of the Cybertrons and the Angolmois capsule. This is what I got back:

Saberback: "Ah, Lord Magmatron, I see that there's no fooling you. These Angolmois capsules have the ability to make corporeal the secret desires and wishes of living beings. On this planet, GodBless, the god envisioned by the natives has created this planetoid. And for the Cybertrons, created a god in the form of the legendary Convoy."

False God: "I am the God of the Cybertrons. I say unto you, this planet is the planet of the Gods, sacred and holy to us. You must not approach it."

Big Convoy: "So that is the God of the Cybertrons..."

Finally, Longrack muses that "to the GodBless-ians, it looked like a Giant Cat God, and to the Cybertrons, it appeared to be a Transformer God. Therefore, it must have been an illusion with no actual physical presence".

Also, he's not more ornate than Great Convoy - he's DRAWN AS Great Convoy. That B&W drawing in the corner of my compilation pic is Great Convoy's character model, and they're clearly the same dude.

Of course, I had completely forgotten that "created a god in the form of the legendary Convoy" part, which raises a whole different batch of questions. --Monzo 02:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd say create an article at "God of the Cybertrons", and mention in the Primus trivia something like "He's not the only Transformer 'god', there's also this BWNeo guy of unknown significance." --Steve-o 05:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Kiss Play Primus a ringer?

I think we should have a note that the Primus in the Kiss Play continuity (and hence the unified JTF universe) is VERY, VERY different than the one we see everywhere else. If I understand things right he's mearly Primacron's assistant in his new Oracle/Vector Sigma form and NOT any sort of real actual god or pan-dimensional cosmic being. Correct?--ZacWilliam 00:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

He identifies himself as the real god of the Transformers, and displays a cosmic form and pan-dimensional powers in keeping with that. He's also identified as being the G1 dimension's version of the guy from Cybertron/Galaxy Force. I think we just have to accept that in the shoehorned JG1 continuity, he can be a god AND Primacron's assistant Oracle AND Vector Sigma, all at the same time and/or consecutively. --Swift 01:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

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