Talk:Shadow Striker (ROTF)

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Special:Search?search=bitch&go=Go Almost all of these are problematic. 164.76.166.210 22:59, 4 February 2010 (EST)

In what sense? -Derik 01:03, 5 February 2010 (EST)

The over kind. --ItsWalky 01:12, 5 February 2010 (EST)

"Problems are never over, finished"? -Derik 01:13, 5 February 2010 (EST)

I would assume "problematic" to be meant in the sense of "bitch is a loaded and often offensive term, even when used without malicious intent, so maybe we should examine our usage of it and perhaps reconsider its appropriateness." Which I would be inclined to agree with. At the very least, we should reduce the number of "does X have to choke a bitch?" references. --KilMichaelMcC 03:16, 5 February 2010 (EST)

That's not an issue with "bitch," that's an issue with a shallow depth-of-humor on the wiki. I agree wholeheartedly that such oft-repeated jokes should be whittled down to only the best examples. (We did this for "compensating for something" jokes a years ago.) -Derik 03:39, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Well, I would add that the number of "choke a bitch" references on this wiki I'd prefer to see would probably be zero, as humor evoking violence against women is not a thing I am particularly fond of. --KilMichaelMcC 03:49, 5 February 2010 (EST)

There's.... two. Here and Darth Vader's page. Not exactly an epidemic. --ItsWalky 08:21, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Infiltration #6, Wanted: Galvatron, Overlord - Terror of the Chokon Tornado. Hardly an epidemic, still. Then again, they aren't exactly good jokes either ('cept for the Masterforce one), so if anyone can come up with something better...Geewunling 09:11, 5 February 2010 (EST)

The Darth Vader one and the Masterforce one are both great. The rest can be trimmed away. -hx 10:33, 5 February 2010 (EST)

There were SIX, not two. It's down to four now. Still four too many, if you ask me. And the 38 total uses of "bitch" is sure as hell too many. --KilMichaelMcC 11:41, 5 February 2010 (EST)

How dare you say "hell." That is absolutely disgusting of you. --ItsWalky 12:08, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Are you actually capable of discussing things without sarcasm? That's not a rhetorical question, I am seriously asking that. --KilMichaelMcC 12:24, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Do you have to be such a whiny bitch when you say it? -Derik 12:38, 5 February 2010 (EST)

You know, the issue raised in the initial comment from the anon at the top of this talk page (casual use of problematic language) is actually kind of a serious one, and I was just wondering if there was actually going to be any consideration of it, or not. --KilMichaelMcC 12:49, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Well I find "slag" problematic and degrading towards women. I also find "problematic" to be a uselessly non-specific term. -Derik 12:58, 5 February 2010 (EST)

That's actually sort of the whole point of this sort usage of "problematic." It is intended to draw attention to issues of this nature in a non-accusatory sort of way. But I digress. "Bitch" is a word I try to avoid using in general these days, given its connotations. I would prefer if it wasn't used at all on this wiki, much less 38 times. And "Choke a bitch" references, to me, are not funny. The original edit removing the ref from this page was noted "This is offensive" by the anon. Walky reverted, saying "It's called a reference to popular culture." But that's a not a refutation of the point, given that popular culture is full of offensive stuff. --KilMichaelMcC 13:12, 5 February 2010 (EST)

If it's suitable for Transformers fiction, I don't see why it shouldn't be for us. --Detour 13:14, 5 February 2010 (EST)

I don't have a problem with most offensive language in and of itself (I think I stopped gasping over most of the four/five-letter words back in grade school), but I do agree that some tones of how it's used can make me wince sometimes. There's an admittedly fine line between snark and insult/hateful, and I'd prefer we try to stay on the former side of the said line and err in favor of just removing/side-stepping when the line gets too fine to tell. --Jeysie 13:16, 5 February 2010 (EST)

I don't see how those uses are directly relevant. One uses the term in reference to the concept of payback, and one uses it as a synonym for "complaining" or "whining". "Choke a bitch" is a direct reference to violence against women, not something I find appropriate for use here. Khajidha 13:18, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Yeah, pretty much. Depends on how it's being used, not solely on the word itself. --Jeysie 13:19, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Actually, "choke a bitch" is a direct reference to a hilarious sketch from Chappelle's Show where Wayne Brady -wholesome, inoffensive daytime TV host Wayne Brady, the "safe" black man- takes Dave out for a drive, and goes through about every "gangsta" cliche possible, from gunning down a friendly white cop for no reason, picking up money from his stable of prostitutes ("Does Wayne Brady have to choke a bitch?"), etc, and absolutely scaring the living shit out of Dave. The problem is not the existence of the phrase, but its overuse. Much like most great lines, and far too many bad ones. Removing every reference to it would suck. --M Sipher 18:09, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Yeah, that's why I used it. Shadow Striker's bio is entirely about Bumblebee having to fuck her up because she was uppity chick, despite Bumblebee being considered by everyone to be a very nice guy. Frankly, the bio's potentially more offensive than the quote, since the former had no hint of self-awareness. It was a commentary on the bio itself, nothing more. --ItsWalky 12:52, 6 February 2010 (EST)

It is still referencing violence against women, I find it sad that people find that funny. Khajidha 11:46, 6 February 2010 (EST)

Please, find somewhere on this page that someone found violence against women funny. I don't think you really understand. --ItsWalky 12:54, 6 February 2010 (EST)

I don't think you understand. I am someone who is perfectly aware of the Wayne Brady sketch. (Although not everyone in the world is, you know.) The use of the phrase "choke a bitch" in that sketch is a reference to violence against women. That's what the words "choke a bitch" mean. They don't somehow stop meaning that just because you're not directly referencing or laughing at actual violence against women. Some people don't like to see phrases like "choke a bitch" used for intended humorous effect, and for perfectly reasonable (and perhaps, extremely personal) reasons. --KilMichaelMcC 13:14, 6 February 2010 (EST)