Talk:Maximal

I... don't really think we need the describe what all the Maximals are doing in each tiny little subcontinuity. That seems really excessive and redundant. --ItsWalky 02:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Total agreement. Drop it all, says I. --M Sipher 03:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hrm, I'm not the only one working on this I see. My approach is pretty different from what Walky has here, so I'll drop it in as a sub-section when I'm done and let God (or possibly the admin) sort out where/how to include it.-Derik 04:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've been pecking at this for a few days, and I want to know what people think.

"Man is a political animal." -Aristotle Onasis

After the Pax Cybertronia and the end of the Great War, Autobots were no longer able to define themselves in opposition to their opponents— what are Autobots with no Decepticons to fight?

The unifying experience for this generation was the the Maximal Upgrade Program , later simply called "the Great Upgrade from Autobot to Maximal." The entire planet's population was rebuilt with new technology, downsizing in the proscess. The old parts of Cyberton had to be abandoned and new, smaller-scale cities constructed on top of them.

Cybertron also experienced a population boom. While the planet's population could once have been measured in hundreds or thousands, the capital of Cybertropolis alone now has a population of over ten million Transformers.

To many of this brave new Cybertron, the Great War was a conflict their ancestors fought in, not one they identify with themselves.

This is what I see as the crux point of what 'makes' the Maximals what they are, which is usually casually brushed aside as 'the Autobots changed their name.'

Am I cracked, or is this importat enough to wege into the entry? -Derik 11:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

There should be some note that some Autobots (as distinct from Maximals) do still exist in the Pax Cybertronia era, according to Megatron in "Other Visits." --KilMichaelMcC 14:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm wondering where Derik got the "The G1 populations were just hundreds or thousands." Everything in my entry is taken from somewhere in fiction. Derik's seems more speculatory. "The Great Upgrade from Autobot to Maximal"? When was it called that? --ItsWalky 15:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed on both. I've never heard that population number given before. Did you guess it Derik, or is it from some obscure J-BW guidebook? And "The Great Upgrade" I've heard, but not that extended name. -Steve-o 15:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I am unconvinced that there is anything noteworthy about the construction of the Maximal-era cities over the existing ones - the first episode of BM, not to mention quite a few G1 episodes, make it clear that the surface of Cybertron is completely built over on a fairly regular basis. -LV 18:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. Gigantiany construction is a Cybertronic constant. --ItsWalky 20:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

"The Great Upgrade from Autobot to Maximal" is a direct quote from Optimus Primal in Sparkwar. He cites it as the reason Iacon was abandoned. So the city abandonment thing is in-text.

The population thing is more speculative, I admit. Internal to the cartoon at least, there were poitns when the total population of cybertron appears to have been 12 or less. And you get things like the summoning in the Marvel comics, where Primus called all Transformers to him... and got like 100? That's why the entry is phrased so carefulyl to refer to the population of CYBERTRON, not TF's all across the galaxy. It's iffy, even then, but it certianly SEEMS that most Maximals were nto Autobots and Decepticons. And if the population of one city was 10 million, Cybertron total must be in the billions. Which... even taking colonies into account, I don't believe the galactic transformer populationw as EVER in the billions in G1. They had a baby boom.

To recap- the City Thing is explicitly stated. The population thing is mroe tenuous. -Derik 22:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Whether it's directly from the script or not doesn't affect whether it's noteworthy. I'd be more inclined to mention it on the page for Iacon. -LV 02:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that "The Great Upgrade From Autobot To Maximal" is a proper name. "The Great Upgrade" could be. "From Autobot to Maximal" is just part of his sentence. Regarding populations: I think I have to call bullshit on this, Derik. We have NO WAY of knowing what the population was during G1. Like you say, sometimes it *seems* like the population is less than a dozen. But that is pretty obviously not correct. I don't think there's any basis at all for estimating a G1 population. --Steve-o 03:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

And while trying to make sense of things "realistically" is rather absurd with this property, I have a real hard time believing that Transformers economy could have withstood an increase in population from thousands planetwide to 10 million in just one city within a few hundred stellar cycles. That would be ridiculous. --ItsWalky 03:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, in a post-Rebirth New Golden Age with Cybertron having a vast new energy supply, I think such a population explosion could work. This is still just speculation, of course. Growth into the billions in three centuries is still kinda ridiculous, but this is Transformers, where ridiculous is par for the course. --KilMichaelMcC 10:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, how about this? Coeleagon is 80,000 years old. He's considered extremely old by Beast-era standards, which says to me that the vast majority of the BW-era population is younger than that. It doesn't proove a population boom after the great war- but it does proove that the vast majority of the BW-era population is extremely young compared to those veterans we're used to following. (I'd say 2/3 or more of the TF's that astarred int he G1 colics and cartoon are at least 4 million years old +) -Derik 10:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, Acourding to the writers all the non-protoform characters in BW are like 50-200 years old, while some G1 guys were around 5 billion(minus the years in status) 69.14.163.91 19:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

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