Talk:Knock Out (Prime)
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Jeez, dudes, he makes one comment about Prime's tires, and he's the next Side Burn? TheMZone 00:43, 13 March 2011 (EST)
- I removed it, but apparently someone called Detour took issue with that and reverted me. --Peter Damian 05:24, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- Because your words are not law. First of all, the stealth link is there to show precedence, not to say "DUDE HE'S THE EXACT SAME AS SIDEBURN", and second because he does appear to have a serious thing going on for cars... especially Prime. He's gay for Optimus. His comment about Prime was a character-defining moment that really belongs in the intro paragraph. --Detour 05:30, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I think "gay for Optimus" is a little strong. I do think the note should stay, because it is pretty notable that Knock Out shows up next to Optimus complimenting him on his rims and build. We've built up intro paragraphs on less, and schmoozing Optimus's looks isn't really an everyday occurrence in Transformers. That, coupled with Starscream's "Oh, you're one of THOSE." Oh, right, and he compliments Optimus because he reminds him of his Partner. --ItsWalky 10:27, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I may be too old to know for sure, but wasn't he just taunting Prime? The way the kids these days talk? I mean, he was setting Prime up to get blasted, which might indicate it wasn't legitimate schmoozing. Just a thought. - Starfield 11:21, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I don't think Knock Out was legitimately trying to make out with Optimus, no. Try to make him uncomfortable or set him off his game, probably. That doesn't mean his compliments were empty. I think he meant it, but was using it as a disorienting weapon, not as a "I WILL TOTALLY DO YOU LATER" sort of thing. --ItsWalky 12:26, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- Whenever something like that line turns into a pun, I guess I kind of discount it as character development. But double entendres, I guess. Off to watch the dang episode again. TheMZone 17:49, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- Actually, it's my opinion that Knock Out was admiring "the awesome truck parked over there," not Optimus. He showed no signs of recognizing Prime as a Transformers until he, um, transformed. Breakdown fired at the building, not at Optimus. But that's just me.
- - ¡Usa El Queso! 23:20, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- Yeah, I never thought Knock Out knew Prime was a robot. He was just a cool looking truck that Knock Out wanted to ...do whatever with. I mean, you're a medic and the leader of your opposing faction is sitting right there, you generally don't go up to him all HEY BIG BOY HOW'S IT HANGIN' (unless you're Comics Ratchet, I mean). -hx 07:57, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
- If he didn't know it was a Transformer, then I'd expect some reaction shot from him when he found out. He's also clearly introducing Optimus to Breakdown, who will shoot him, which otherwise makes no sense. --ItsWalky 11:16, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
- Personally I think he was just complimenting Prime's truck mode without knowing it was Optimus. He's in love with himself. Any accusations that he's gay will be the same thing as G1 Tracks.DinoFreakUSA 14:01, 20 March 2011 (EDT)
- Also I think we should change things around a bit. I think he only likes cars because he thinks they're cool not because they remind him of Breakdown. Was there an official source that said this?DinoFreakUSA 00:34, 21 March 2011 (EDT)
- "You're reeeeeeaaaaaaaal heavy-duty, just like my friend here." The statement in the article is factual: He likes big trucks, and he thinks they're like Breakdown. Your "because" is something you read into it. - Jackpot 01:07, 21 March 2011 (EDT)
- If he didn't know it was a Transformer, then I'd expect some reaction shot from him when he found out. He's also clearly introducing Optimus to Breakdown, who will shoot him, which otherwise makes no sense. --ItsWalky 11:16, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
- Yeah, I never thought Knock Out knew Prime was a robot. He was just a cool looking truck that Knock Out wanted to ...do whatever with. I mean, you're a medic and the leader of your opposing faction is sitting right there, you generally don't go up to him all HEY BIG BOY HOW'S IT HANGIN' (unless you're Comics Ratchet, I mean). -hx 07:57, 14 March 2011 (EDT)
- Whenever something like that line turns into a pun, I guess I kind of discount it as character development. But double entendres, I guess. Off to watch the dang episode again. TheMZone 17:49, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I don't think Knock Out was legitimately trying to make out with Optimus, no. Try to make him uncomfortable or set him off his game, probably. That doesn't mean his compliments were empty. I think he meant it, but was using it as a disorienting weapon, not as a "I WILL TOTALLY DO YOU LATER" sort of thing. --ItsWalky 12:26, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I may be too old to know for sure, but wasn't he just taunting Prime? The way the kids these days talk? I mean, he was setting Prime up to get blasted, which might indicate it wasn't legitimate schmoozing. Just a thought. - Starfield 11:21, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- I think "gay for Optimus" is a little strong. I do think the note should stay, because it is pretty notable that Knock Out shows up next to Optimus complimenting him on his rims and build. We've built up intro paragraphs on less, and schmoozing Optimus's looks isn't really an everyday occurrence in Transformers. That, coupled with Starscream's "Oh, you're one of THOSE." Oh, right, and he compliments Optimus because he reminds him of his Partner. --ItsWalky 10:27, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
- Because your words are not law. First of all, the stealth link is there to show precedence, not to say "DUDE HE'S THE EXACT SAME AS SIDEBURN", and second because he does appear to have a serious thing going on for cars... especially Prime. He's gay for Optimus. His comment about Prime was a character-defining moment that really belongs in the intro paragraph. --Detour 05:30, 13 March 2011 (EDT)
Starscream's "you're one of those" line is a rhetorical device letting everybody know that the cartoon isn't going to go there. Since he immediately explained that he was taking about car-mode Decepticons. - Starfield 22:02, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
GAY?
That's a little inapropriate for a show that children watch, and I'm sure he just likes cars and commented on Optimus to distract him.--Primo 13:46, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- I'd say the brutal death, zombiefication and further brutal manglings of Cliffjumper and the constant brutal eradication of Vehicon troopers are far more inappropriate for a children's show than a bot who likes other dudebots. --Detour 13:57, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- If it were humans, yes, but robots, parents probably don't care much.--Primo 14:23, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- Then why do you care? Are you afraid there'll be gay bot marriage or gay bot sex? They don't even have straight bot marriage or straight bot sex. And honestly, leaving homosexuals out of the show could give out a bad message, you know? "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, except homos, gross!" -- Semysane 17:08, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- I'm getting Tramp flashbacks from this conversation.--Spin-Out 18:32, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- Then why do you care? Are you afraid there'll be gay bot marriage or gay bot sex? They don't even have straight bot marriage or straight bot sex. And honestly, leaving homosexuals out of the show could give out a bad message, you know? "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, except homos, gross!" -- Semysane 17:08, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- If it were humans, yes, but robots, parents probably don't care much.--Primo 14:23, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- You are inappropriate for children. —Interrobang 19:33, 3 April 2011 (EDT)
- I personally don't care, but parents might overreact and try to sue Hasbro or some shit.--Primo 16:29, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
- Sue them over what, exactly? Take your conspiracy theories to a forum, please. —Interrobang 16:35, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
- I personally don't care, but parents might overreact and try to sue Hasbro or some shit.--Primo 16:29, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
- What a great birthday present, this person. --ItsWalky 18:05, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
- All I'm saying they wouldn't suggest him being gay, because of very critical parents who are offended by that. And this is to Spin-Out: Why?--Primo 15:19, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
- Sexual innuendo can happen in kids shows, dude. Sexual innuendo's like half of Beast Wars. But I have a feeling that it's not these fictional parents you're invoking who really has the problem here. --ItsWalky 17:58, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
- Odd that the parents would have a problem with implications that a character might be gay, but have no problems with death and grisly dismemberment. Not to mention fake profanity. -- Semysane 17:48, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
- Which I already pointed out to him at the very beginning of this nonsense. --Detour 17:51, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
- Truth be told, a lot of people have a bigger problem with sex/sexuality than violence (heck, didn't the TF:P crew say they could do violence but not swearing? Not my idea of taboo hierarchy either). Of course, this doesn't change the fact that Primo over here is trying to keep a clean slate by presenting his problem as someone else's problem he's merely trying to raise awareness off. Which I don't get either, because the note states this is how fans interpret it, not that the TF:P crew intended it this way. Geewunling 05:39, 9 April 2011 (EDT)
- Which I already pointed out to him at the very beginning of this nonsense. --Detour 17:51, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
- I don't think it's something worth mentioning in the page (probably 100% coincidence), but his Knock Out voice is exactly the same as his Mercurymon voice from Digimon, which was a character that wore prominent makeup in both its forms. It's pretty clear that Knock Out's at least acting as if he's homosexual.98.222.213.161 16:01, 14 May 2011 (EDT)
- All I'm saying they wouldn't suggest him being gay, because of very critical parents who are offended by that. And this is to Spin-Out: Why?--Primo 15:19, 8 April 2011 (EDT)
On a COMPLETELY different topic...
Anyone object to changing Knock Out's quote to "I'm not just an automobile; I'm an automobile enthusiast"? It's basically just a better phrasing of the current quote, anyway.
- ¡Usa El Queso! 2:37 PM, 10 April 2011 A.D.
- I was gonna just go ahead and do that anyway, because I can, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. In other words, go ahead. --ItsWalky 14:46, 10 April 2011 (EDT)
EDIT
I edited out the part in notes claiming the Botcon comment was "unintentionally insulting" because someone's personal feelings on the matter of a joke does not belong in a wiki, even the TFwiki. Please, do not put in your personal feelings on a subject when this is meant to be objectively informative and not an opinionated exposition. Mangrytron
- This isn't "personal feelings". Comparing homosexuality to a glitch is insulting to homosexuals, regardless of whether or not the comment was intentionally insulting. It certainly seems more like your personal feelings on the matter are what's making you remove it. --Detour 20:00, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- You are viewing it as your opinion that it is insulting. My personal feelings on the matter are not what is making me remove it, it is the fact that your opinions on what you make the comment out to be are leaking into the entry, where it does not belong. There is no need to say that it is an insulting comment, because it is not. It was not meant to be insulting, and the only way things can be "unintentionally insulting" is when you use your personal feelings and views to interpret a comment. Again, wiki articles should be objective, and it is your personal opinion that it was insulting. Mangrytron
- Please pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of unintentional. --Detour 20:08, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I am well aware of what the word "unintentional" means, but you are making it out as an insult, intentional or not, when it is not meant as such in any regard. Again, it is you viewing and interpreting the comment through your own opinions and feelings which makes it insulting in any regard, and it is, yet again, not something worth contributing to any wiki article. It is but one phrase that the article can do without. Mangrytron
- Words mean things. To compare homosexuality to a glitch IS insulting, regardless of whether it was intended or not. --Detour 20:16, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- Intent! It's friggin' magic. --ItsWalky 21:53, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- A glitch caused a robot to be homosexual-ish. On a scale of shocking statements, that... doesn't seem all that shocking, honestly. If he were human it would be one thing, but he's a robot. It would be like if a glitch in the AllSpark caused a robot to crave pizza, or wear pants, or any number of things robots don't ordinarily do. Not really an insult to pizza lovers and pants wearers. - Starfield 03:47, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- You cannot simply divorce a statement from its real world context just because it's about a fictional robot. "Pizza lovers" and "pants wearers" do not face discrimination, bigotry, and hatred. Your comparison is absurd. --KilMichaelMcC 16:22, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- The context is fictional robots. Applying it to the real world would be taking it out of context. That's just how "context" works. They talked about how there was no "gay" or "straight" on Cybertron, then, in order to explain Knock Out's otherwise unexplainable behavior (because there is no gay or straight on Cybertron), they said a glitch in the AllSpark did it. Starfield 20:53, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- No, the context is the systemic oppression of.... eh, never mind you clearly don't get it at all. --KilMichaelMcC 23:31, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- The context is fictional robots. Applying it to the real world would be taking it out of context. That's just how "context" works. They talked about how there was no "gay" or "straight" on Cybertron, then, in order to explain Knock Out's otherwise unexplainable behavior (because there is no gay or straight on Cybertron), they said a glitch in the AllSpark did it. Starfield 20:53, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- You cannot simply divorce a statement from its real world context just because it's about a fictional robot. "Pizza lovers" and "pants wearers" do not face discrimination, bigotry, and hatred. Your comparison is absurd. --KilMichaelMcC 16:22, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- This is an article on Knock Out, not an article on the semantics of what was said and what wasn't said. This isn't a critique on the perceived injustices or political incorrectness of a Botcon panel, this is about Knock Out. Your feelings on the matter are irrelevant to the page's content.Mangrytron
- I'm sorry, but TFWiki is about pointing out these sorts of things, be they editors blaming gaffes on fans or unscrupulous business practices or, yes, comments that turn out unintentionally insulting.. --Detour 20:31, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- Words mean things. To compare homosexuality to a glitch IS insulting, regardless of whether it was intended or not. --Detour 20:16, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I am well aware of what the word "unintentional" means, but you are making it out as an insult, intentional or not, when it is not meant as such in any regard. Again, it is you viewing and interpreting the comment through your own opinions and feelings which makes it insulting in any regard, and it is, yet again, not something worth contributing to any wiki article. It is but one phrase that the article can do without. Mangrytron
- Please pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of unintentional. --Detour 20:08, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- You are viewing it as your opinion that it is insulting. My personal feelings on the matter are not what is making me remove it, it is the fact that your opinions on what you make the comment out to be are leaking into the entry, where it does not belong. There is no need to say that it is an insulting comment, because it is not. It was not meant to be insulting, and the only way things can be "unintentionally insulting" is when you use your personal feelings and views to interpret a comment. Again, wiki articles should be objective, and it is your personal opinion that it was insulting. Mangrytron
- If I said "There was a glitch in the AllSpark the day that Fred was created", Fred would be more then justified to treat that as an insult. I don't see why this is any different. --abates 20:45, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- So if I said "God had a bad case of the squirty-shits the day Mangytron was born", that wouldn't be insulting? Good to know! (And yes, the "glitch" quote IS insulting.) --M Sipher 21:35, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- You are all taking this entirely out of context. The TFwiki should be objective and abstain from personal feelings and comments. The articles should not reflect the author's opinions, but simply the content. If you are going to insult me because I am trying to be objective and have some level of quality, then that is very childish of you, considering I have done nothing of the sort. Again, that comment is reflected solely on opinion and not fact. That is the end of this asinine discussion. The TFwiki is about Transformers, not commentary on socially offensive jokes or phrases expressed through a Botcon panel joke. Keep that on TF message boards. The Wiki is not your soapbox. That is all. Mangrytron 22:22, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I'm sorry, but considering the Wiki's moderators (abates and M Sipher) are disagreeing with you, I'd say you're not in any position to say what the Wiki is and isn't for. --Detour 22:26, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I do very much enjoy the redlinked newcomer lecturing the admin what the site is all about. --ItsWalky 22:34, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I know the fandom is big now and all but jesus, it's like, the posters here are Sipher and Walky and frickin' me, and you're all YOU SHOULDN'T BE POSTING OPINIONS AND STUFF ON ARTICLES motherfucker why do you think we took over this thing in the first place? WE ARE HERE TO GRIND OUR AXES. GRINDY GRINDY GRINDY. -hx 22:49, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I do very much enjoy the redlinked newcomer lecturing the admin what the site is all about. --ItsWalky 22:34, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- You're several years and 13,451 articles too late to try and dictate what this wiki is and isn't, which makes your claims of lack of context all the funnier. Also, "some level of quality" has not remotely been proven on your part, inasmuch the only thing you've done here is get in an edit war and try and tell everyone what we should be doing. --M Sipher 23:09, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
- I'm sorry, but considering the Wiki's moderators (abates and M Sipher) are disagreeing with you, I'd say you're not in any position to say what the Wiki is and isn't for. --Detour 22:26, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
I guess I'm a glitch! (So not helping, am I?) Let's all back off and breathe a bit. No matter what we say, someone somewhere is going to get offended. AUGH AUGH AUGH 01:52, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
This is all a rather silly issue, particularly given how informal this wiki is and always has been. Leave it as is, and if you disagree, get over it. Go have some ice cream. It should cheer you up. Monty Prime 03:36, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
I think this is the living definition of "crying some more". - Chris McFeely 15:54, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- The first comment being "They're faggots!" really brings this all home, doesn't it. --ItsWalky 15:58, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- All I'm getting from that is "MY HIVEMIND IS BETTER THAN YOURS! NYAH NYAH NYAH-NYAH!". --Detour 16:07, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- Ahhh. Hilarity. --M Sipher 18:27, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- Gaybashing: it's not just for the neurotypical anymore. --Thylacine 2000 19:06, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- And since Chris opened the gateways, I ended up finding Mangrytron's topic that led him here to kick up a storm. My favorite line has to be "Do you seriously all have nothing better to do than whine about the most inane of issues and act as if that’s the reason The Man is holdin’ you all down?". --Detour 19:42, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- lol you guys went through the trouble to find my tumblr blog and act as if i'm gaybashing or something else entirely retarded like that. i didn't insult you, i didn't attack you, and you're all going apeshit over nothing. stay classy TF fandom. Mangrytron 21:00, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- We will. And you can stay 15. --Thylacine 2000 21:06, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- Wow, you telling US to stay classy? Anyone who refers to someone as a "nasty fat fanc**t" has lost their right to tell someone else to stay classy. -- Semysane 21:09, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- protip: that wasn't me who said it but a friend of mine, but go ahead and get angry at the words being said. That's all any of you seem to be doing; getting angry over words that hold no weight or mean anything at all. Really, you're insulting me, going out of your way to say I'm gaybashing and implying I'm homophobic because I say a wiki should be an objective source of information and not a place to voice your opinions. That's how all GOOD Wikis are run, but none of you are concerned about being good, you're just concerned about voicing your loud and rather inane opinions. Calm your asses down and realize that I haven't attacked anyone; the only one who is attacking anyone is you guys. Or don't calm down and continue on. It's really, really funny. Mangrytron 21:15, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- We haven't insulted you, our words hold no weight or meaning. If you choose to be offended by them, that's your problem. -- Semysane 21:20, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- I'm not offended by it, I just thought I'd point out the fact you're all trying to paint me in a light where I'm some homophobic, uncaring, gaybasher is really immature, especially when I did no such thing to any of you from the get-go. The funny thing is, I'm not even straight. Mangrytron 21:28, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- You'd be surprised just how many homophobes aren't straight. -- Semysane 21:32, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- Good for you. As a gay person, I'm still calling you socially dense and immature. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that subtle homophobia doesn't exist and that words have "no weight or mean anything at all", feel free to do so and leave the rest of us alone. —Interrobang 21:37, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- I'm going to echo Interrobang's comments. Also, the best part is all that drama over on tumblr will do nothing but net TFWiki more page visits and more free publicity. --Detour 21:59, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- That's like being one of those people who says, "I'm not racist! I have lots of black friends!" It doesn't help your case. I know this whole thing has been retreaded to hell and back, but I felt necessary to put in my two cents on the matter. The initial statement they made at Botcon was cute; about the Decepticons having a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. That's funny, and avoids addressing the issue without making anyone feel uncomfortable. The follow-up, on the other hand, is a slap, because it means that any characters that exhibit that behavior (be it actual homorobosexualism or just narcissism to an nth degree) are a MISTAKE. Which means that their personality traits are a MISTAKE. And I'm sorry, that just doesn't sit well, regardless of what personality traits are in question. It's like saying the Allspak glitched when it made Optimus, causing him to be heroic. It doesn't matter if it's decrying homosexuality at that point, it's saying that a character's primary character traits are wrong, and caused by a screw-up in their creation. If you can't see how this would be insulting, there is no hope for you.
- I'm not offended by it, I just thought I'd point out the fact you're all trying to paint me in a light where I'm some homophobic, uncaring, gaybasher is really immature, especially when I did no such thing to any of you from the get-go. The funny thing is, I'm not even straight. Mangrytron 21:28, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- We haven't insulted you, our words hold no weight or meaning. If you choose to be offended by them, that's your problem. -- Semysane 21:20, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
- protip: that wasn't me who said it but a friend of mine, but go ahead and get angry at the words being said. That's all any of you seem to be doing; getting angry over words that hold no weight or mean anything at all. Really, you're insulting me, going out of your way to say I'm gaybashing and implying I'm homophobic because I say a wiki should be an objective source of information and not a place to voice your opinions. That's how all GOOD Wikis are run, but none of you are concerned about being good, you're just concerned about voicing your loud and rather inane opinions. Calm your asses down and realize that I haven't attacked anyone; the only one who is attacking anyone is you guys. Or don't calm down and continue on. It's really, really funny. Mangrytron 21:15, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
Also, for the record, I for one welcome our homosexual robot overlords. --Boy Blunderous 03:48, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
- For reference, I didn't go to any trouble - I just found it when someone who has issues with the wiki posted a link it on Twitter, and even THEY thought you were being ridiculous. - Chris McFeely 04:48, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
