Talk:ASD-324-ddd-3e3c1 model Decepticon

The three contradictory retellings of Transformers pre-history make the early Decepticons' place in Transformers history somewhat difficult to pin down, but it seems this type of soldier saw wide service during the so-called Golden Age of Cybertron wherein fitful wars periodically swept across the planet, causing both Autobot and Decepticons to declare victory many times.

From my reading of cartoon Cybertron's history, this is inaccurate. There were no wars during the Golden Age. FFOD allows us to date/retcon the "Desertion of the Dinobots" film strip to the Second Cybertronian War.

When the narrator says: "And thus began a terrible series of wars. Many times both sides have claimed victory, but this has been short-lived, for the Autobots have overthrown Decepticon tyrants, and, likewise, Decepticon treachery has toppled many a peaceful Autobot ruler. And, to this day, the war rages on!" what he is describing is actually the ebb and flow of the Second War itself, before it has ended.

This fills in a narration gap from the Matrix vision's account, which jumps straight from "Knowing we could never defeat the Decepticons with firepower, we turned to stealth and invented the art of transforming" to "The Autobots ruled for many centuries."

Take note of the fact that first time you see anyone transforming in the "Desertion" film strip is after the narrator says "a few valiant survivors devised new tactics and launched a counter-offensive on their arch foes" and the second time comes right before he says "for the Autobots have overthrown Decepticon tyrants." Only Autobots are shown with the ability to transform, as it should be during the Second War. --KilMichaelMcC 14:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Do we have a G1 Cartoon timeline page? If not I'd definately suggest we make one for this kinda info.--ZacWilliam 17:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Right Kil-but that's the problem. The tellings are CONTRADICTORY. These soldiers are contemporaries of Purple Motorcycle Guy, who is also a non-transforming TF. U-Haul Robot was one of the first to transform-- which led to several centuries of Autobot supremacy that ended with Megatron's creation (or possibly retrofitting to transform.) and U-Haul's death.

War Dawn has Transforming Autobots and Decepticons, so it clearly takes place after all this. War Dawn was golden age. Ergo- there were wars prior to War Dawn. So either there were wars during the Golden Age which dates from the period of harmony after the Quints were overthrown or the term 'Golden Age' only refers to the few centuries of Autobot supremacy between inventing Transformation and War Dawn. (Which doesn't seem... right.)

Why doesn't it seem right? That's always how I've interpreted the timeline. Quints create Cybertronians. Autobots-to-be rebel. First Cybertron War. Quints beaten. Autobots and Decepticons begin Second War. Autobots invent transformation. Autobots win. Golden Age, peace policed by Guardian Robots. War Dawn. Third War. It's... entirely straightforward and easiest, smoothest way to incorporate the various tellings of Cybertron's past together. They're not particularly contradictory - they just don't refer to each other. - Chris McFeely 20:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't seem right because I feel like the golden age should be more than the few centuries mentioned there.

And the retellings are contradictory- DotD and FFoD had majorly different versions of pre-TF's. You can shove those in sideways too... but it's inelegant, and it still leaves the question of where the 'cons were during the rebellion.

Oh well. Fortunately- we're not arguing about the chain-of-events in the article, just my incorrect terminology in the note at the end. That's much easier to fix.

While I'm at it, I'm going to stub in a page at Sunbow timeline. Y'all can move it when I'm done. -Derik 20:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

But even the notion that the Golden Age lasted "only" a couple of centuries is you being speculatory. There's zero reference for how long it, or the war before it, lasted. There's only (heh) two million years to play with anyway. - Chris McFeely 20:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I dunno. FFoD says transformation gave the Autobots several centuries on top before Megatron killed U-Haul robot. I suppose you could say that a million years passed between that and War Dawn... but Megatron's rise to power seemed relatively rapid. Even with Orion blowing off the attacks on other cities- I couldn't buy more than a couple centuries. (Unless you're suggesting a previously-unknown period when Megatron, after being created wasn't conquering stuff, but instead sat around crocheting.) -Derik 21:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

You may be right about the ebb-and-flow line referring to the post-transformation conflict... but there were definitely wars during the Golden Age too. Non-TFing Autobots and Decepticons fought like cocks behind a Mexican restaurant. The peaceful era Orion Pax enjoyed seems to be more a result of the Autobots going "Heeey... we can use the tools of our former oppressors to stomp down the Decepticons for us so we don't have to fight and die ourselves! Fire up the Guardian Robots!" An era of peace and prosperity- but no global wars.

(None of this explains where the Decepticons were during the quints overthrow- but FFoD and War Dawn BOTH show the Autobots alone being the ones to drive the Quints out.) -Derik 20:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I am very, very confused by your positions Derik. The FFOD and Desertion accounts are NOT contradictory, they are COMPLEMENTARY. Once you realize that, as I said, Desertion's film strip dates from the Second War and that what at that time was considered a "series of wars" with both sides declaring victory is with hindsight looked upon as a single conflict. Observe!

Desertion

Millions of years ago, Cybertron was a planet of peace. Until the Decepticons, lusting for power, began a terrible war. Not designed for combat, the Autobots were overwhelmed and subjugated by their evil opponents.

FFOD

For a time, the robots lived in harmony.

But this did not last. The former consumergoods, who called themselves Autobots, sought a peaceful existence, while the military hardware wanted conquest.

And they got their way.

They tyrannized the Autobots.

Desertion, FFOD...POWERLINX!!!

While many Autobots fled Cybertron, a few valiant survivors devised new tactics and launched a counter-offensive on their arch foes. Knowing we could never defeat the Decepticons with firepower, we turned to stealth and invented the art of transforming. And thus began a terrible series of wars war.

Heck, even this bit isn't contradictory, as episodes like Sea Change and Fight or Flee make use of a different numbering system for the wars (referring to the third and fourth wars as if they were products of the past), indicating that there were several conflicts that were at one time viewed as separate wars, but which came to be considered just the one later on. - Chris McFeely 11:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Many times both sides have claimed victory, but this has been short-lived, for the Autobots have overthrown Decepticon tyrants, and, likewise, Decepticon treachery has toppled many a peaceful Autobot ruler.

And, to this day, the war rages on! eventually, the Autobots won. The Autobots ruled for many centuries, but in time, the Decepticons also learned how to transform. Thus, one fateful night, far below the city... Megatron was born.

The Matrix was passed to Alpha Trion, the oldest of Autobots, who kept it safely hidden for many years until the next Autobot leader appeared, a gentle robot known as Orion Pax, who was fated to become...

Optimus Prime.

And so began the third Cybertronian war, which rages to this day.

Also, I seriously don't understand AT ALL from where you get this "there were wars during the Golden Age" stuff. The Golden Age is clearly the period between the Second and Third Wars. There was no fighting then, until Megatron started stirring shit up! --KilMichaelMcC 02:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you're cracked, but I'm babysitting and I don't have my DotD disk handy to make a proper argument.

Perhaps on rewatching I will agree with you. -Derik 04:07, 24 June 2007 (UTC)