Talk:King Poseidon

Shouldn't the entry be for "Piranacon," with King Poseidon listed as the Japanese name? - Dark T Zeratul 04:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

We decided theyr'e seperate characters represented by identical toys, just like Lander is not Landmine, and Clouburst is not Phoenix. -Derik 04:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Or like how B'Boom is not Apache! --ItsWalky 05:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, how are those kinds of things decided? - Dark T Zeratul 07:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, on one of the OTHER Seacon pages (I thinkt here's like 3) someon (in this case me) said "Look, I've compared things, and the MF seacons, despite having 1 name in common, are completely different characters- nncharacters really. Theyr'e drones except Turtular. They should not be listed as the same character as the US Seacons."

And we discussed it back and forth a bit, decided thatyes, Turtular definately IS NOT Snaptrap, and decided to follow that into puttign them on a seperate page.

Who goes where is kinda mess right now, come combiner teams are listed under their team name, soem udner their gestalt name- I expect we'll end up standardizing things under Gestalt names some day. But for now as the entries are still being filled in, we just deal with it. -Derik 07:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be a bit of a judgement call as to whether a given toy/figure/entity is a different character across continuities. I guess it depends on just how much the differences stand out or affect the character. --Ratbat 08:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The question becomes, then, if for the purposes of this Wiki King Poseidon is not Piranacon, Lander is not Landmine, etc (which I agree with), why DID we decide that Gigatron was Overlord? - Chris McFeely 10:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Because Gigatron, Overlord and Ovalrolled (MF Overlord) all share language on their tech-specs. Gitgatron and Overlord share a quote even. The central block of text about their onboard munitions factory is present in all 3, strongly indicating they're all the same character. This is, IIRC, on the talk page.

You disagree I take it? Why? -Derik 13:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

To be quite honest, I don't ACTUALLY disagree... it's just sort of fuzzy in my head. My brain is full of Masterforce after the DVD work, and it's just that everyone else in the whole Masterforce series is treated as a different character to their Western counterpart on the Wiki, so for Overlord to not be just feels odd and sore-thumbish to me. It's not that I don't see the logic in it, or anything, 'cause I totally do. - Chris McFeely

Not true, Dreamwave-continutiy Ginrai is considered the same character too!

(There's links to all three bios in Overlord's talk section, if you want to compare, whcih is what I did before reaching this conclusion.)

Enjoying Masterforce? I'm up to episode 11 in terms of cataloging every incidental character, location and device in that series. The plan is to eventually be able to say the Wiki has the Complete Masterforce series.

Along the way I've been makign notes on characterization. The hope is that by the time I reach the end I'll be able to have a firm personality and motivation for every major character- based on their in-cartoon persona. (Bio notes are unreliable, characters are often revisioned for cartoons.) Thus far I've concluded that the Destron pretenders are a trio of bickering officemates that work in cubicles, and Gilmer is pushover supervisor constantly being stampeded by Blood. Basicaly- he's the fat guy from Planetes. -Derik 18:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

When I think about it, I suppose the one thing that Dreamwave Ginrai and UK Overlord/Gigatron have that differs them from the rest is that they were done after the fact, rather than being released concurrently, as is the case with all the other Masterforce characters vs. their Western selves.

I'd figured that's what you were doing with Masterforce. :) And yes, I really did enjoy it. I was a bit skeptical going in - I'm not the type who objects to humans, but I'd heard a lot abot Masterforce and was edgy - but it really is one of the best-written TF animated series there is. It certainly thrashes the ass off of Victory, which I was really surprised to discover was mostly intensely boring after years of hearing about how it's the best Japanese series.

How 'bout them commentaries? ;) - Chris McFeely 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

* koff * I've been working from the encodes I downloaded a few years back. Same translation I gather.

As for... after the fact, well, that's open to debate. Is Botcon 2005 Deathsaurus Deathsaurus 'after the fact'? Dreamwave took Ginrai and Overlord (renamed Gigatron for legal reasons) from Masterforce, and put them into its own continuity. They didnt' invent seperate characters witht hese names, and then later hav ti declared that they were actualyl Ginrai and Overlord. (As with Gaea in BWII). -Derik 19:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

By "after the fact", I mean, "after the original characters were created." Gigatron, DW Ginrai and BC Deathsaurus were specifically conceived to be (or envoke, or whatever) the original characters, whereas King Poseidon (and the other Masterforce characters) were fictionally taken in different directions at the same time, hence their being different characters fictionally. I'm sort of answering my own question here. :) - Chris McFeely 20:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

UK Overlord was taken in his direction a full year later, and then (unliek the motorvators) he borrowed parts of his spec from his Japanese incarnation.

Gigatron's spec merely made that connection more explicit. -Derik 20:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Like many aspects, there really is no hard-and-fast, black-and-white dividing line on matters like this. You kind of have to take it on a case-by-case, keeping, well, intent in mind. Cartoon and comics Shockwave act pretty different, but they're pretty clearly intended to be the same guy. Piranacon and King Poseidon... not really, no. --M Sipher 22:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)