Talk:Magnus Hammer
Why isn't this at Magnus Hammer? I thought "fiction overrides toys", and it was referred to as the Magnus Hammer in-toon... - SanityOrMadness 17:28, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
- Magnus hammer isn't really a proper noun, while Stormbringer is. It's a real name, which defaults over less proper nouns. It's why the clones which have names are at their respective names, rather than their clone names. --ItsWalky 17:30, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
- It's capitalized everywhere in the article. That means it's a proper noun, no? Otherwise, it's be called the "magnus hammer", not "Magnus Hammer". Does anyone actually ever refer to "Liar Starscream" or "Egomaniac Starscream" in the toon? --Crockalley 14:13, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- No, but they do in the production materials and scripts.KrytenKoro 14:24, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- *agrees with Crockalley*
- "Magnus Hammer" isn't a generic term - it refers to that ONE specific, unrepainted, hammer, in the same way "the Creation Matrix" of the Marvel comic or the "Matrix of Leadership" of the G1 cartoon are referred to. It's been said off-screen to be the hammer used to forge the AllSpark container, with this being hinted at on-screen with the stained glass windows in the scene where Ironhide discovers the injured Ultra Magnus. It's also the ONLY term used in the cartoon to refer to it.
- I say "move to Magnus Hammer, capital M, capital H. - SanityOrMadness 14:32, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- I'm inclined to agree. - Chris McFeely 16:41, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- Yes. It should be moved. --KilMichaelMcC 22:27, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- I don't really have a good argument why it should stay at Stormbringer, so I will make some mediocre ones. It can create storms! Or fire lightning blasts! The original, (non-repaint—if that strengthens the argument for you) toy agrees the hammer can control the weather. "Stormbringer" sounds pretty appropriate to me. "The Magnus Hammer" sounds like a title bestowed upon the mighty Stormbringer. Plus, proper nouns don't often start with "the." - Starfield 00:48, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
- "The" won't be part of the title or name. The Empire State Building is a proper noun. Objects with names are frequently prefaced by "the". The Matrix. The Divine Light. The Allspark. The Magnus Hammer. --Crockalley 09:02, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
- I think it is likely that it was crafted by the aliens[1] as "Stormbringer," then when the Autobots got ahold of it they called it the Magnus Hammer. - Starfield 16:07, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
- I don't really have a good argument why it should stay at Stormbringer, so I will make some mediocre ones. It can create storms! Or fire lightning blasts! The original, (non-repaint—if that strengthens the argument for you) toy agrees the hammer can control the weather. "Stormbringer" sounds pretty appropriate to me. "The Magnus Hammer" sounds like a title bestowed upon the mighty Stormbringer. Plus, proper nouns don't often start with "the." - Starfield 00:48, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
- Yes. It should be moved. --KilMichaelMcC 22:27, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- I'm inclined to agree. - Chris McFeely 16:41, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
- It's capitalized everywhere in the article. That means it's a proper noun, no? Otherwise, it's be called the "magnus hammer", not "Magnus Hammer". Does anyone actually ever refer to "Liar Starscream" or "Egomaniac Starscream" in the toon? --Crockalley 14:13, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
The full story, as I know it, is as thus: at BotCon 2008, in the midst of Season 2, the hammer had no known name or designation amongst the fandom. Due to the hammer's obvious nature, I seized upon the name "Stormbringer" from the IDW mini (not really caring about the mini one way or another, but liking the name), and so pestered Forest Lee at the convention to give the hammer that name; IIRC, this was before Ultra Magnus was released, and I was hoping the packaging was not yet finalized. Forest admitted that he hadn't named a weapon since Metroplex's Sparkdrinker, and was amenable to the idea. Since the hammer was not named on Magnus's box, though, I had assumed the idea was dropped, or that it was too late to add it in.
Flash-forward to Roadbuster Ultra Magnus. The hammer was now named Stormbringer! Well, hey! Yay me! But, uh, the cartoon started calling it the Magnus Hammer (Isenberg's name for it, IIRC), and the production staff was seemingly entirely unaware that the toyline had named it something different. And that is that, so far as I know. --Monzo 19:41, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
- So it sounds like you are saying "Stormbringer" was the name all along, and doesn't just refer to the Roadbuster recolor. - Starfield 17:53, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
- If by "all along" you mean "not at all for the first two seasons". - Magnus Maximus 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
- Sounds more like "there's a micro-continuity where it was made by aliens and called Stormbringer - and Magnus took on a really ugly paint job and changed his ways so as not to get tonked by Shockwave - but that's not what happened in the cartoon". - SanityOrMadness 18:11, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
- I think it is a micro-continuity only if it contradicts events, such as Ultra Magnus taking on a new paint job (even then, he's not dead yet. It could still happen). I don't know why you are eager to relegate the alien craftmanship to micro-continuity. Any information to fill in a sparse backstory is good information to me. - Starfield 18:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
- Sounds more like "there's a micro-continuity where it was made by aliens and called Stormbringer - and Magnus took on a really ugly paint job and changed his ways so as not to get tonked by Shockwave - but that's not what happened in the cartoon". - SanityOrMadness 18:11, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
- If by "all along" you mean "not at all for the first two seasons". - Magnus Maximus 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
The AllSpark Almanac calls it a "Stormbreaker mass-hammer." Hrm. --ItsWalky 12:11, 20 August 2009 (EDT)
- A? As in this is something there is possibly more than one of? Because that might be workable. The AllSpark's container was forged by a Stormbreaker mass-hammer, which subsequently became known as the Magnus Hammer, part of the regalia of the office of Magnus.--RosicrucianTalk 12:17, 20 August 2009 (EDT)
- Only if it absorbed a sliver of the AllSpark's power (possibly by design, even, to make the forging of the container possible at all), surely? All the 'toon references to it were not just as a symbol of office, but ALSO as a uniquely powerful weapon, ja? - SanityOrMadness 18:31, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- Thing is, it's now been called both a Stormbringer hammer and a Stormbreaker hammer. And the Magnus Hammer. The Almanac writeup makes it sound like "Magnus Hammer" is the weapon's title, but "Stormbreaker mass-hammer" is what ... make/model it is? It controls local weather, and legend says it forged the AllSpark container way way long ago. Those last bits we knew. --ItsWalky 18:35, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- That's my interpretation. That the mass-hammers were not unique objects, but this one took on special significance due to its role in being used to contain the AllSpark, and due to this significance went on to be passed down from Magnus to Magnus.--RosicrucianTalk 18:41, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- Thing is, it's now been called both a Stormbringer hammer and a Stormbreaker hammer. And the Magnus Hammer. The Almanac writeup makes it sound like "Magnus Hammer" is the weapon's title, but "Stormbreaker mass-hammer" is what ... make/model it is? It controls local weather, and legend says it forged the AllSpark container way way long ago. Those last bits we knew. --ItsWalky 18:35, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- Only if it absorbed a sliver of the AllSpark's power (possibly by design, even, to make the forging of the container possible at all), surely? All the 'toon references to it were not just as a symbol of office, but ALSO as a uniquely powerful weapon, ja? - SanityOrMadness 18:31, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- Glanced over the bringer/breaker bit at first there. Of course, it might have been a glitch while trying to rationalise the toy names, but given all the Thor jokes that have followed this around since its' introduction (especially Marvel-Thor jokes, down to this article's caption), I wonder if "Stormbreaker" isn't a Beta Ray Bill reference... - SanityOrMadness 18:48, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- I assume it's a genuine mistake. I don't think Jim Sorenson would make a purposeful error just to make a reference. --ItsWalky 21:05, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
- Glanced over the bringer/breaker bit at first there. Of course, it might have been a glitch while trying to rationalise the toy names, but given all the Thor jokes that have followed this around since its' introduction (especially Marvel-Thor jokes, down to this article's caption), I wonder if "Stormbreaker" isn't a Beta Ray Bill reference... - SanityOrMadness 18:48, 21 August 2009 (EDT)