Talk:Star Wars (franchise)

SW vs. TF scale

Why are we assuming that the SW guys are TF-sized? Scale's pretty fucked up in Attacktix, considering we have Mini-Cons about as big as Super Mode Optimus... as is TIME, since you've got guys from all eras of SW-dom involved. The whole "these guys are TF sized" is massive fannon that I don't think has any place in here. --M Sipher 05:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Because in the absense of contradicting evidence, why should we assume otherwise? Assuming the SW humans are actually very small seems to be as much of a fan assumption. There are TF-sized humans in the TF universe. Plenty of them. --ItsWalky 14:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that an "assumption" either way would be unwarrented, unless one wants to posit a) those pilots are not actually the Star Wars characters they seem intended to represent, or b) humans in the Star Wars universe are not the same size as Earth humans, I don't think Walky's got a very strong case. You need evidence to make statements like that. I vote to eliminate the scale passage.--G.B. Blackrock 15:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the main bugbear about the heights of the SW guys is that canon SW material has official heights and weights listed, and if Darth Vader is two meters tall, then clearly, either he grew or the TFs shrunk when they hung out. -hx 16:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

But for the purposes of this Wiki, we are not considering non-TF material. See Spider-Man's page. --ItsWalky 16:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Which doesn't make up anything about Spider-Man that is contradictroy to the actual material, just jokingly omits anything ghtat is not directly relevant to his time spent with the Transformers. That's different. And the scale issue, as previously noted, is ALREADY shaky at best since all the TRANSFORMERS save Omega Supreme and Sentinel end up the same size. --M Sipher 19:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Spider-Man's entry does suggest his powers may come from his suit, which is the only logical conclusion we can gather from his single appearance, since the radioactive spider was never mentioned, and, hey, he has this suit. Likewise, since all the Attacktix material has Darth Vader attacking a similarly-sized Optimus Prime, that's not exactly an erroneous assumption. --ItsWalky 14:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought black-costume Spider-Man's whole GIG was "awesome super suit that did super shit". Before it went Venom. --M Sipher 23:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but he still had the proportionate strength of a spider and the ability to climb up walls. If the suit had those powers, it got them from him. --ItsWalky 00:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there even any necessary reason why the SW TFs and the SW/TF Attacktix figures are the same continuity as each other?--G.B. Blackrock 21:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, there's this big set that includes characters from both franchises, with art of them fighting each other, and it says they fight each other, and you're supposed to make them fight each other. --ItsWalky 21:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but that doesn't really answer my question.... For example, if the TF Attacktix ultimately includes, say, G1 characters, instead of just UT continuity TFs (an assumption, I know), that would be a fairly strong argument against considering such toys to be linked in continuity with the toy franchises from which they came, since G1 and UT are already considered separate.

In any event, I'm with Siph on this one. Scale is a hairy issue within each franchise as it is (indeed, always has been). I see no reason for making the assumption that SW humans (non-Attacktix, especially) are on TF scale on the basis of Attacktix figures which, admittedly, do fight each other hand to hand as if the humans were on such scale. It certainly looks to me like TF Attacktix won't fit in continuity even with the UT scale TFs themselves.--G.B. Blackrock 22:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the existance of Star Wars Transformers (should) override this question of scale. And yes- Iw ant a Star Wars/TF comic. Let Star Wars/TF be the result of a UT crossover for once! GO NUTS. I want TF to be insane. er. -Derik 00:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, about those Star Wars TFs.... You realize, of course, that if we do accept that SW humans are TF sized, the SW Mecha of those Star Wars TF toys would represent HUGE TFs (along the lines of Don Figueroa's Macromasters).--G.B. Blackrock 13:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought that'd be pretty neat. --ItsWalky 14:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Be that as it may, it represents an unsubstantiated assumption about SW humans in general. The most we can say is that this is true within "Attacktix" continuity....--G.B. Blackrock 18:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What's the relative scale RF/human on the art of them fighting one another? -Derik 21:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It's been repeatedly established, at least throughout the G1 continuities, that most humanoid species are Transformer-sized. Furthermore, every piece of evidence points to the Star Wars characters being the same size as Transformers. I think it's pretty clear cut. Chip 03:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There are examples, to be sure, but I think "most" is a bit of a stretch. You certainly have at least TWO very prominent ones that are human sized in the comic alone. In fact, what humanoid species ARE there in the cartoon that are TF sized? And most of the TF-sized aliens in the comic aren't really humanoid. What other TF continuities are you referring to? And every piece of evidence points to SW characters being the same size as TFs? Siph's already pointed out that scale is wonky by noting that Mini-Cons and Super Prime are the same size. That's a least one piece of evidence that doesn't point to TF-sized SW humans right there. In short, I don't think the evidence is as clear cut as you seem to think it is....--G.B. Blackrock 04:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, there's the simple fact that there ARE established "real" heights for SW guys. Yeah, yeah, you can say "we don't cover outside fictions" all you want, but pretending they don't exist at all then making things up about them that are patently untrue only makes us look dumb, frankly, and goes against the "don't make shit up" standard we set. Omission is one thing... and this isn't omission, this is blatant fabrication and contradiction. --M Sipher 04:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Alanna's people are Transformers-size, as are the Eurythmians, ...were the peopel from Face of the Nijika TF-sized?

More to the point-t hese guiant humans are actually CALLED Humans in many cases.

Mind, I think all of this is silly. The soto-voice comments int he article should be "it's not clear if the creatures are Transformer-sized as depicted on the box art or not." You lose very little of the humorous impact while no longer saying somethign that, as many objected to, is blatant fabrication- projecting non-story onto the cannon for the sake of humor. (Thing WE know to be non-story, even thought he cannon, being unaware of the larger body of Star Wars lore, does not.) -Derik 16:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd actually be fine with a solution such as this. Incidentally, do you have source citations for these alien races you mention? My own memory of actual alien race names is fuzzy, and without bothering to check, I'm guessing that we likely haven't gotten around to creating entries for them yet.--G.B. Blackrock 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The Human article mentions a few Transformer-sized human races, such as the Femaxians and Miss Fatale from "Bird of Prey." Likewise, Cloudburst and Landmine were readily identified as humans when they went incognito on Grand Central Space Station. Nobody raised any eyebrows at them being thirty feet tall. I believe there were some in the cartoon, as well, but I'm less familiar with that. --ItsWalky 18:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The "Human" article seems to mention only comic races, but even if the comic was the only source of "TF-sized" humans, it would certainly be sufficient for the sake of precedent, and I'm not trying to argue otherwise. Incidentally, I have never objected to the wording at the end of that article that says "It is possible that the tiny version of humans found on Earth is the exception, rather than the rule." (emphasis mine) The source of my objection is simply the "matter-of-fact" assumption given here that SW humans are TF-sized, on the basis of a toy line that seems to be outside of any kind of continuity to begin with.--G.B. Blackrock 18:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I prefer to think that Atacktics is int he same continuity as the Armada video game. -Derik 18:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, that art sure makes it LOOK like either the SW humans are huge, or the Transformers have been shrunk down.

And if you shrunk down the Transoformers, they'd have itty-bitty cockpits int hem that couldnt' fit anything! And that's just silly! -69.88.91.218 17:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you even READ the conversation up to this point? At least some of us have already talked about the package art! Like I said, I prefer to think of the Attacktix as a separate continuity for the other SW TFs, but I'm apparently in the minority, since the article hasn't been changed to reflect such ambiguity....--G.B. Blackrock 18:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC) EDIT: I see that Walky has actually made an attempt at such a revision, both since I posted this last message, but also one a bit before, which I had not noticed. I appreciate these efforts.--G.B. Blackrock 20:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a thought: We have no evidence that a Star Wars meter equals a Transformers meter. It might be that humans, regardless of their size, always tend to give the same names to units that are the same size proportional to themselves, so a thirty-foot human might come up with a unit equal to around 16.4 feet and call it a "meter." Similarly, if Star Wars really is a different universe, the universes might exist at different scales, so that something three meters long in one and something three meters long in the other are actually completely different sizes. Baseless conjecture? Yes, but it's fun! --Andrusi 17:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

the Star Wars Transformers toy

I couldn't find the page dedicated to the Star Wars Transformers line. Has it not been created yet. Do we have to extend this page to talk about it? Should we even talk about it, seeing that the story on the package is about giant mechas, and nothing about sentient alien bots (well, the droids may come from alien planet, but that's beside the point)? Now that I think of it, it's also the case about the animorph line.

I think there's nothing on them yet because, technically, they're a Star Wars line, not a Transformers line, so whether they belong on this wiki at all is a subject of debate. --ItsWalky 00:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, scratch that. There's Star Wars Transformers stuff on this page already, right now. --ItsWalky 00:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

About what line these toys would be, I clearly see a big "Transformers" on the packages: http://www.tfw2005.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8199/cat/599 (below the "Star Wars", that's true).

Read the second paragraph. --ItsWalky 00:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I think having a "toys" section to the page would be appropriate. There should probably be a small article, or at least a redirect, at Star Wars Transformers as well. --Steve-o 01:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think we should have pages for the SWTF characters. Going only by the package bios, of course. How is Anakin Skywalker related to Luke Skywalker? NOOOOBODY KNOOOOWS! And it'd really be a shame if he turned evil or something. --Andrusi 03:08, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd say put all Star Wars TF stuff on this one page. --KilMichaelMcC 04:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Cheating?

On what grounds are we calling Luke Skywalker a Jedi and Han and Chewbacca Rebels? The Jedi status doesn't come from the Luke X-wing's package bio or the Attacktix crossover box. Nor can I find any package bio for the Millenium Falcon duo. Are we violating the rules of the "game" there? --Rotty 08:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

How much knowledge is is too much?

Hey all. As a Star Wars Sad Bastard, I was quite amused to see this new segment of toy continuity, and was eager to contribute -- but knowing how easy it would be to flood a TF wiki with not-so-relevant to the TFs stuff, I thought I'd ask for some limiting guidelines after looking around at the Marvel entries.

The toy selection, for example, that Hasbro is offering suggests that in the SWTF timeline, as in the main SW line, some version of the Clone Wars took place. Would it be acceptable to have a page on that, detailing the extreme basics of the conflict and the emphasis on both combat automata and piloted transforming vehicles, and leave specific battles, Order 66, and other more detailed matters to the Wookiepedia? Possibly with some "if you want to know more" hyperlinks?

Also, would the Mandalorians count among the listed factions for SWTF? What with Slave One and all the Clone Vehicles.... I'm tempted to suggest that their old Basilisk War Droid was the inspiration for the Republic battlemechs we see in "modern" times, but such, of course, falls under fanon unless there's any official source thinking along the same line. Which I haven't seen so far. Banpei the Mini-Con 05:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

As long as you limit your additions to material that has actually appeared under the Transformers banner, such as toy packaging, I don't think there's any problem with going all-out. Just make sure you don't make use of any of your background knowledge of Star Wars as an independent entity, lest you break the adorable isolationist style of the articles. --Steve-o 14:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Lucas killed Transtech?

Do we have a source on the Trivia that Star Wars Ep 1 helped kill Transtech? First I've heard of it.--ZacWilliam 03:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Project Starscream?

In the Galaxy of Fear junior SW novels, Vader oversees some mad scientists involved in both psychological warfare and reanimating-the-dead experiments, collective referred to as "Project Starscream". Not much of a connection between franchises, I know, but if there is some sort cross-continuity traffic, it's at least worth a mention somewhere. Like here, maybe. Banpei the Mini-Con 20:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Normally we don't document TF references in non-TF contexts because that could easily spiral out of control, given TF's massive influence on pop culture. But since this pertains to a franchise that TF has solidly crossed over with, and the reference in question seems pretty isolated, I went ahead and added a note. If people think it doesn't belong and want to delete it, I won't put up a fight. - Jackpot 15:43, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

Crossovers section citation

Since the url is dead, I was looking for where actionfigures.com moved it to, but as far as I can tell, they just deleted it. I was going to replace it with a link to the copy on archive.org, but that doesn't mention anything about Crossovers or pilot figures. Huh? --abates 23:57, 5 February 2013 (EST)

2011, 2012

None of the 2011/2012 toys listed on this page appear to be listed here. --flicky1991 07:44, 25 July 2013 (EDT)