Talk:Super Energon Temple

I am baffled by this article's title. --KilMichaelMcC 11:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Did I get the wrong Michaelangelo painting? Which is the circular one? (I've seen it in person, i just don't remember where.) -Derik 11:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

*facepalm*

No, Derik, I am baffled as to why it would even occur to you to give this article such a name instead of "Super energon temple" or some such thing. --KilMichaelMcC 11:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

...does it get named in a later episode? I just thought the mural was, by far, the more memorable defining characteristic. Although, I suppose that would at least make the title descriptive, not a simile...

Uh, so you want me to move it? ;) -Derik 11:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't remember if it ever gets a name, or description good enough to use as a title. But it should be pretty obvious that titling the article "Sistine Chapel" (which you misspelled, BTW) is not appropriate, as anyone coming across that in a category would assume that to be an aritcle about, you know, the actual place and not a location on UT Cybertron. --KilMichaelMcC 11:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It seemed in keeping with nicknamed like "Big Red", but good point about the mispelling. I shall move it to a more appropriate name. My apologies! -Derik 11:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Article title issues aside, "Anonymous Maximus" is the best name ever for the fourth combiner. I've sort of toyed with making a page for him from time to time, but I could never think of anything better to call it that "Superion's brother." - Chris McFeely 12:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

That said, I think Derik's over-read the whoooole thing. I'm going to have to wait till I get home from work to bust out the Super Link version of the episode, but I genuinely don't think there was supposed to be any puzzle or illustrated futility or anything like that... - Chris McFeely 13:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I may be filtering it through an Indiana Jones 'finding the temple' vibe, but without that vibe... the while thing makes very little sense. Doen below cybertron- sure. But a hidden wall that gives way if you're clever enough to detect it? That's not a deterrent- it's a test. Ditto the long shaft you have to drop down blind. The painting is just arbitrary without that context- "Oh hrm, a painting of all the history of all the battles fought here where war has settled nothing. That's nice." The quad here aren't exactly guardians-- they're enemies who (in the superlink dub) Megatron says 'glared at one another until they coroded.' Again- pointlessly locked in combat. As soon as Megatron awakes 'em the Decepticons join him- so they're not Guarding the Energon, they where here FOR it.

Saying you cant' tell who's who is my inference but... it seems to fit the scene? Anyway- I admit I'm not sure how much smoke I'm blow up up myself. I marked it as my best guess what's going on when I created the page. I look forward to seeing if you agree or not when you get home. -Derik 14:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Going back to Super link- when Megatron gets ot the shart, eh peers intot eh darkness and says "If I can't believe in you, then who can I believe in!?" (Addressing the little chunk of Unicron in his subconscious- whom he considers a piece of himself.) And then he throws himself into the darkness with a yell. It's a Leap Of Faith- right out of Last Crusade. (Endergon substitutes a line about 'Well I suppose I must trust my inner voice.' that demolishes the point.) -Derik 14:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, the leap of faith, I'm totally down with. It's just the meaning of the mural and the suggestion that it and the combiners represent a "puzzle" to be solved. As I say, I need to watch the Super Link episode with this, but the notion that the mural represents a chronicle of war and that the combiners were enemies doesn't really... make sense, since the war wasn't supposed to have started by the point they were sealed up. - Chris McFeely 15:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh... well alright. I'd liek to know what point you think the mural was supposed to have in the plot then, because it sure looks like it's there's for a reason. Unfortunately as is frequently the case in Energon AND Super Link, the plot makes a vague gestures towards what it WANTS to accomplish, but doesn't bother to ACTUALLY do the leg work to get there, leaving us playing guessing games with motivations.

(I wasn't aware of the timeframe thing- I assumed they dated from the same era as Omega Supreme from whose shrine was active as recently as 10,000 years ago. Perhaps I shouldwatch the subsequent episodes for context.) -Derik 15:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

They do come from the same era as Omega (he says he knows them at one point, and if memory serves, that they fought together - but I don't remember if that's Energon weirdness, or in SL too). Your reference to Omega being active 10,000 years ago refers to his defeat of Unicron, yes? But that was over ten *million* years ago, rather than ten *thousand.* And that's still from before the war started - it didn't kick off until around the time Unicron settled in as the moon, which would have been after Omega defeated him and went into hibernation with the combiners. - Chris McFeely 15:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Really? I could have sworn...

Ah, 'Crash Course' (well "Special Training! Roadbuster" since it's the Super Link version.) Primsu says, of Omega "Energon from ten's of thousands of years ago wait here." The engrish of that makes my head hurt- but that's where I was remembered 10,000 from, and it's actually quite vague. I correct my interpretation of that scene. -Derik 16:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: the war not having started yet- they had Autobot and Decepticon symbols. Superion Maximus, after being all disoriented by future Cybertron is all- "Ah, Cybertrons!" (Autobots,) sees them as natural allies and looks for a way to get in good with them. And when Megatron lays claim on the Super Energon and says something insanely arrogant Constructicon is all- "Spoken liek a true Destron warrior!" (SL again.)

The current war may not have started- and when they were sealed away they may have been at peace (since it sounds liek all 4 were tasked with guarding the Energon...) but there still seems to be acrimony. Thus the mural of Autobot/Decepticon conflicts in the past (which makes no SENSE if it's about a war that started after they were sealed away) and Galvatron's statement that the giants glared at one another until they coroded away fits- they weren't at war, but they were still divided.

I really don't think this is negotiable. It's not just the animation or careless dialog writing- ot someone not thinking out the timeline- all 3 seem to consistently pointing to Autobots and Decepticons having already separated in that era. Just like War Dawn was the beginning of the current great war- but there were Autobot/Decepticon conflicts that came before it. -Derik 19:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Aaah, phoo, I went got the episode out and then wrote up this whole thing and clicked save and then there was an edit conflict and it was you coming to the conclusion I'd gone off and reached on my own! Phhbbt! - Chris McFeely 19:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You can channel your energy into correcting the article, which is (since the Maximi were at least temporarily at peace) wrong abotut hem being a Labyrinte-exque test, and the mural is probably more just a 'this is our hope for the future' thing, and circular 'cuz that way there's no 'sides'.

(Werent' there some ancient Decepticons in Cybertron too? I've seen very little Cyb.) -Derik 19:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed there were - but they came to Earth on a ship with ancient Autobots, too. Which works surprisingly well with this "peace with emnity" notion. I think I'm going to diddle with the UT cartoon timeline first... - Chris McFeely 20:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)