Talk:The War to End All Wars, Part 5

Death tally

In issues like this one, where minor characters get offed in the background, some sort of list of the dead seems appropriate in the notes. Just something to consider going forward. -- Repowers (talk) 20:56, 19 March 2014 (EDT)

Poor Slingshot...he can't survive any Marvel finale.--Nu-Priest (talk) 11:36, 20 March 2014 (EDT)

I put together a death tally for all of RG1 over at Transfans though for this issue it was easier just to list who's still alive. I can post it here if it'll be helpful? --Emvee (talk) 15:17, 20 March 2014 (EDT)

If you want to get really technical everyone dies.--Altercron (talk) 17:07, 20 March 2014 (EDT)

I too like the ideas of 'death lists' for events like this. --MissRatbat (talk) 01:36, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

Here's how I broke it down for the whole series, though probably inaccurate and mostly cut 'n' pasted:

The Last Autobot is nuked.

The Skyscorchers are executed by three of the Deluxe Insecticons.

All of the human characters bar two, and most of the population of Earth are dead.

The 84/85/86 Decepticons - with the exception of the big five, Megatron, Soundwave, Shockwave, Starscream and Ravage - and the Monsterbots, for some reason, were lobotomised and turned into zombies, then they're beaten by the Autobots, deactivated and incinerated from orbit.

Ratchet spent 21 years as a face, and then Kup shoots him.

Optimus Prime puts Megatron down for good.

Lightspeed and Nosecone and probably others get eaten by Demons.

Slapdash and a few generics are killed by the Autobot Headmasters.

Misfire and Treadshot are killed by Scorponok and Grimlock respectively.

Pounce is shot in the head by Crosshairs.

Roadblock and Scorponok fall into the Sonic Canyons.

Poor Cosmos.

Windbreaker goes out with a sad [i]parp[/i].

Just to make sure we know it, we see Buster and Jessie killed by Ratbat in a carwash, plus Movie Ultra Magnus, Kup, Springer, Arcee and Rodimus are killed in another timestream. Jhiaxus killed Boltax, Decanus, Tallus and Rokan.

Monstructor is quite comprehensively ripped apart.

Mainframe's definitely dead.

The G2 guys kill a load of Demons.

Hound buys it while taking on the G2 guys.

Jhiaxus kills Joyride, Sky High, Crosshairs and Brainstorm. The Wreckers and Shockwave slaughter thousands of G2 guys. Galvatron takes out a bunch of generic Autobots..

Almost EVERYONE WHO WAS LEFT ON CYBERTRON is consumed by some sort of energy shadow-leech thing. Iguanus, Soundwave, Beastbox, Squalktalk, Howlback, Wingthing, Slugfest and Overkill explicitly, Scattershot implicitly. But pretty much everyone else is dead apart from Shockwave, Starscream and Ravage.

From the final issue it's probably easier to list who's still alive. The characters we've seen are Rodimus, Blurr, Jetfire, Blaster, Ultra Magnus, Kup, Nightbeat, Bumblebee, Chromedome, Wheeljack, Streetwise, Blades, Groove, Powerglide, Jazz, Getaway, Beachcomber, Skids, Fastlane, Prowl, Broadside, Whirl, Topspin, Sandstorm, Roadbuster, Rack 'n' Ruin and Hardhead plus the ever-indestructible Dinobots. We can assume some other Autobots are off-panel as well, as we later see Perceptor, Mirage, Red Alert and (bizarrely) Backstreet alive, as well as Hosehead, Slingshot and Tailgate (aw) who show up just to get shadow-leeched to death. As does Streetwise.

Magnus puts down Galvatron like a mad dog.

Fort Max comes back wrong and has to be put down.

Optimus Prime dies (again).

By the end of the issue, all the other Transformers are dead apart from Rodimus, who dies.

Like I say, it's not 100% accurate but it could be a useful start. --Emvee (talk) 16:31, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

Howlback: the only female Transformer in this continuity. Also: dead. --ItsWalky (talk) 17:20, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

The Skyscorchers survived the Insecticons attack. They were seen as prisoners in #87. ('Course, that means they died in #100, but whatev.) Don't recall seeing Mainframe die on-panel. --Xaaron (talk) 17:37, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

Also Skram and Gunrunner were killed by Galvatron. Escargon (talk) 17:40, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

An explosion went off near Skram...doubt that killed him. And Gunrunner must have survived getting shot by the Unicron cosplayers since he was killed by Jhiaxus in #99. --Xaaron (talk) 17:55, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

Fairly sure it was Sky High who got killed by Jhiaxus - see the talk page for last issue - and Mainframe's decapitated head shows up on p3 of #96 --Emvee (talk) 06:13, 22 March 2014 (EDT)

Sky High works. Not sure about Mainframe. That severed head has a prominent mouth, and Mainframe is consistently mouthless. --Xaaron (talk) 11:49, 22 March 2014 (EDT)

Additional Rodimus?

There's another tiny Rodimus fighting the Dark Matrix creature, and he's colored orangy. Is this guy Dark Of The Moon Rodimus? Escargon (talk) 19:04, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

The one left of centre, between IDW Rodimus and Excellion? Given the shoulder assemblies, wheel and windshield locations and yellow fists, I took that to be Alternators Rodimus coloured a bit off. - Chris McFeely (talk) 19:18, 21 March 2014 (EDT)

Botanica?

Do we know for certain that the Cybertronian born from that coccoon at the end is Botanica? Like, was it ever confirmed? Or do people just assume it because their silhouette resembles Botanica? Bluie (talk) 10:11, 21 June 2024 (EDT)

I looked it up. According to Furman himself, the being isn't necessarily Botanica, but "something like Botanica":

https://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2014/03/18/transformers-regeneration-one-100-script-wrap/#comment-10130

Not sure how the page should be edited to reflect that. What should we call a nameless character like that? Bluie (talk) 14:07, 8 July 2024 (EDT)

It's fine as it is; anything beyond what's published on the page is considered authorial intent, although a note saying that Furman noted it might not literally be Botanic wouldn't hurt. Escargon (talk) 15:11, 8 July 2024 (EDT)

Except that the published page never identified the character as Botanica. That's literally just a guess fans made based on nothing more than their silhouette. Bluie (talk) 17:17, 8 July 2024 (EDT)

Because the silhouette is clearly drawn to be Botanica. There's no real need to split hairs over it. Escargon (talk) 19:20, 8 July 2024 (EDT)

Having the same or similar shape to another Transformer doesn't mean being that Transformer. You should know that by this point. For instance, Thundercracker isn't Starscream, Packrat isn't Rattrap and Apelinq isn't Optimus Primal.

There is nothing in the published story that establishes that character as Botanica. The fact that some (but not all) fans interpreted it as Botanica is irrelevant.

Don't pretend that some random fans' interpretation is more relevant to canon than the author's word. Authorial intent is only "wrong" when it contradicts the published work, which it doesn't here. Bluie (talk) 14:19, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

Considering that the vast majority of your edits have been the result of your own misinterpretations of material, I’m going to say you’re in no place to judge anything about this. Escargon (talk) 14:42, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

Literally false. The only thing I misinterpreted was the context of a sentence in a TFWiki page, and that was once. And the fact you resort to personal attacks instead of trying to counter my point proves you have no point. Bluie (talk) 14:46, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

Well let’s see. For one your point about shared body types completely falls flat considering that no one else shares Botanica’s design. And for second, the fact you’re the only person who has had any quibble with this in the past decade, you’re seriously overstating the claim that only “some fans” believe this. Escargon (talk) 14:55, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

The fact the Transformer in this story has a completely different context and story from Botanica (who got her plant form from scanning plants in another planet and then got Reformatted by the Maximals in Cybetron, rather than being born with it in Cybertron) already sets them apart from the BM character. And discussion threads like https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/regeneration-one-hundred-spoilers.978710/ show that the Botanica belief isn't universal like you imply. In fact, the majority of people there didn't think it was Botanica. Bluie (talk) 15:00, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

….you do realize that there are also other versions of Botanica who don’t resemble the cartoon version completely, yes? And one forum thread isn’t some massive example of evidence. Escargon (talk) 15:04, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

It doesn't matter. Literally nothing links this character to Botanica beyond a similar silhouette, and that connection was disproved by the writer himself. And even if most fans believed that's Botanica (which you haven't provided any real proof for, all you've done is make assumptions), that still wouldn't dictate canon. Bluie (talk) 15:08, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

It's drawn to be *similar* to Botanica, but it is not identical. I don't think it's any more authorial intent to say that it *is* her than to say that it *isn't*. Iacon0 (talk) 19:02, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

Can we all stop and take a breath for a second? I would like other users to weigh in on this before we do any heavy duty moving or spliting, but my personal opinion at the moment is that if Furman says the being is "a reference to Botanica" and "something like Botanica" then, from my perspective, that kind of precludes it from being literally, actually, Botanica. The closest point of (imperfect) reference I can think of is how the 2021 Beast Wars annual story had characters based off Botanica, Silverbolt, and Nightscream, but weren't actually those characters, and they didn't go on their respective wiki pages. Locoman (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

I'm in agreement with Loco on this one. Also, seriously, the mudslinging on both sides was extremely unnecessary, and I suggest you both take some time to cool off before blocks start getting handed out. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 15:15, 9 July 2024 (EDT)

If I'm being honest, I'm kind of on the side of "if it were meant to be a specific character, it would have been drawn to look exactly that specific character, rather than just similar to said character." After all, Regeneration One wasn't a series that drew familiar characters in updated designs that were only similar to their classic designs, it straight up drew them in those classic designs. That silhouetted figure looks evocative of Botanica, but a side-by-side comparison with her classic appearance in Beast Machines makes it clear that it's not an exact match for either her plant mode or her robot mode. It makes little sense for her to be singled out as the only altered character design in series full of unaltered character designs. And even from an outsider perspective,longtime YouTuber Linkara once made this statement in his review of Regeneration One: "And now they emerge as this silhouetted figure, who's apparently Botanica from Beast Machines but I don't know why anyone would assume that." It's evidently not as definitive as we currently present it as being, and the author who wrote it even confirmed that it isn't supposed to be so definitive. --Sabrblade (talk) 16:20, 9 July 2024 (EDT)