Talk:Tree of Life

I laughed at the Mel Gibson quote, but isn't the caption a bit much? Antisemetism shouldn't be a laughing matter even as pathetic as it is. The Tree of Life is a universal metaphor afterall, even if the map shows a clear Kabbalah parallel. Alientraveller 19:27, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

That wasn't a Mel Gibson quote, it's just what people have been saying for thousands of years.

And this isn't a Kabbalah 'parallel.' The names, colors, and philosophical meaning, and even path through the Sephirot is lifted directly from the Kabbalah version. Check it out. He starts at sphere 10 and simply counts down (er, up...) to one. The names he gives for the speheres are literal translations of the Hebrew names.

It's this verbatim lifting of the concept with no attempt to create a 'regionalized' version of it better suited to Transfomers that earns Skir such bile, and combined with his universe-breaking "I just thought it'd be nice if the heroes didn't used guns" initiative and ham-fisted application of a "technology is evil, nature is good" plot to a species of sentient robots has resulted in his work on TF being dismissed as new-age hippyism. Correction-- shallow new-age hippyism. I've been one of those critics. That said... my attitude towards the Sephirot has softened over the years. I still desperately wish we'd gotten a more regionalized version of the concept instead of a 1:1 port.

Re-reading this story I saw apparently-unnoticed references in it to the wider universe. One probably intentional, the other accidental but perfect, plus a few more incidental dovetails. This has broken down my resolve to keep treating the Tree of Life concept as 'separate' from the rest of TF canon. (Plus, I think it can be used to tidy up a few loose ends about the distinction between spark and soul.) Also, you know, it's pretty much Rhinox's canonical religion, and isn't even inconsistent with "The Spark".

Anyway... yeah. The reason "I bet the Jews are responsible for this?" Because that is the Jewish Tree of Life, verbatim. It was indeed created by Jews. (Thus the phrase is ironic, because it's simply an accurate observation, not a damning accuzation.)

...is Bob Skir Jewish? Because that would invite confusion. If Skir's Jewish I'd prefer to dump the caption rather than offend. (I always pegged Skir's religion was "Mendicant Hippie Who Can't Get Served at McDonalds.") -Derik 20:30, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

According to his Myspace page, his religion is indeed Jewish. --ItsWalky 20:33, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

Well shoot. That takes all the fun out of the caption-- a malappropriate use of a normally-offensive phrase is no good if it can reasonably be mistaken for actually offensive, especially since my ire for Skir's work is well-documented. I'll dump the quote in the next page edit... I'm sure we can come up with something better.

FYI Walky, I plan to go pretty straight-on gnostic w/ this page, taking the material as it's straightforwardly presented. (I assume Rosicrucian can check me on the details, probably others.) The One is related to this concept, using Blake's model of "Gnostic emanations to resolve internal conflict" so the two articles will probably end up tied together. I'm cautiously optimistic that everything can be stitched together the way it's 'supposed' to go without straying beyond the TF source material.

Anyway just a heads up. Any contamination from Derik's Crazy Ideas shouldn't stray beyond this page, and the community can veto me if things get too wacky, as per usual. -Derik 21:07, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

There is no effective difference between Botanica's hip-guns, Primal's chest-gun, Strika's wrist-guns, and Jetstorm's shoulder-guns. It is a worthless nontroversy. And since this is exactly the first ever discussion about the tree concept I have seen anywhere since the book was published 6 years ago, I don't see how it has "earned Skir such bile". It only ever appeared in one story, it didn't really mean anything, and it's pretty clearly not in effect anymore as no one else has ever used it or even mentioned it since. It's a weird curio, probably his attempt at an... I'd say "Easter Egg," but, uh, more like a hamantosh. This is a PERFECT CASE STUDY of an abandoned concept within the canon; linking it with "The One" would be quite appropriate in that regard. --Thylacine 2000 21:42, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

There's at least a tiny possibility that linking it to The One would be very appropriate. TF Legends had a reasonable helping of 2003 'grand vision' of the TF Multiverse which spawned 'Worlds Collide,' the whole "Transformers as a Mystery Religion" approach where the reader from their privileged position viewing multiple universes simultaneously often has a clearer idea of what's going on than the main characters do. That's when The One made its never-properly-articulated debut, and and the year Legends was published. It's entirely possible that Skir was asked to fold some of this stuff in. (I don't particularly care if this was the case or not, it's just interesting.)

And you don't see bile leveled at Skir on the wiki because we are gentlemen here, and we are above such spurious character-assassination. ...except me, obviously. -Derik 22:03, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

Tired. Fweep time. Here-- have hint why I's find this interesting. -Derik 02:43, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

....sonofabitch, I think you're right. --Thylacine 2000 09:55, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

Welp, my mind is blown. Er, re: the purple pillars and flying equations, that is. Think you're pushing it correlating random moments to the different levels. - Chris McFeely 10:29, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

Having finally finished TF: Exodus, I'm going to throw this out:

• Matrix == Tree of Knowledge
• AllSpark == Tree of Life

I don't plan on putting it into the article (and the line is certainly blurred enough, with the Matrix being used for trips on the Sephirot) but that really appears to be the 'shape' continuity is assuming. -Derik 15:23, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

I wish I'd twigged on to this while I was working on the Almanacs.--Jimsorenson 15:50, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

Meh. One does what one can.

With the (entirely sensible) retcon that the AllSpark lies at the core of the Well of All Sparks, that also retroactively places the AllSpark in most TF continuities. (Assumming the pool of metal the first TF's arose from in Marvel continuity was the well-- and we've every reason to believe it is.) -Derik 15:53, 16 September 2010 (EDT)