Talk:Ursa Magnus
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Who is this? (184.56.30.163 15:18, 1 March 2012 (EST))
- Fan character. Belongs to, uh, Ursa Magnus. --ItsWalky 15:19, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Delete
[edit]I really do not think this page should exist. The War Within was full of random fan-cameos, and we agreed then that we shouldn't have pages for guys named "Parseltongue". A note, sure. --Monzo 15:48, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- Well, whatevs. I was just going off of the redlinks we have to X-Warlock. Plus, back when we thought this was Polar Claw, we had a link to him, and it's odd to me that if we get rid of that, and we have a name for this guy, we wouldn't replace this with that. But if this crosses a line we don't want to have to live up to later, we can nuke this from orbit, sure. --ItsWalky 16:05, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- This is what happens when you put your friend's fan character in official product. Goddamnit, pro-fans. Delete with a vengeance, add a note to the comic's Notes section. -hx 20:45, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- Except in this case, the character's name and existence have been confirmed by the book's editor, so... --Detour 20:50, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- And also that this isn't just "Joe Ng draws X-Warlock as a background guy" or "Josh Perez colors a generic like Buzz Lightyear", Jesse Wittenrich wrote in the script to put Ursa there, Will Mangin drew Ursa there and Josh Burcham colored Ursa there. And then Pete Sinclair acknowledged, "Yeah that's Ursa Magnus in there." So there. Ursa Magnus. --Detour 20:55, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- Ugh. I guess he's more legitimate than the dead Not-Hot-Shot from the Drift books, even. Ugh. -hx 21:06, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- This is what happens when you put your friend's fan character in official product. Goddamnit, pro-fans. Delete with a vengeance, add a note to the comic's Notes section. -hx 20:45, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- We have had articles for guys like Saber and other random generics/cameos in fucking forever. As much as I don't care for this Original Character (Do Not Steal), he's still a part of official Transformers fiction, and I don't see the point of this cognitive dissonance. —Interrobang 00:10, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- The point is if we have a page for "Ursa Magnus" we are that much closer to having to have a page for a robot named fucking "X-Warlock." Nobody wants that. That is a stupid name. -hx 07:16, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- And Dickbot the blender guy and Lord Imperious Delirious are such great names? If the character has appeared, why shouldn't we have a page for it? --Khajidha 07:50, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- You're in the wrong wiki if you're going to throw a conniption over stupid names. —Interrobang 08:28, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- That's different, because someone got paid to come up with those names (and let's be fair, "Dickbot the blender guy" was a working name, at best, that got adopted). Mostly, and I'll be honest about this, it's because a bunch of fanfic characters, official or no, are problematic for me vis a vis the wiki's mission (by which i mean people will see OH LOOK SOME DUDE FROM ALLSPARK'S FAN CHARACTER WAS IN THE BACKGROUND OF A COMIC, I'M GOING TO MAKE ENTRIES ABOUT MY ENTIRE DUMB LITTLE UNIVERSE) I mean "Ursa Magnus" is apparently official, so there's fuck-all to be done about it besides making him an article, but the guys who were drawn in as easter eggs by the artist and not called for in the script? That's like the dead Not Hot Shot in that one IDW book - it was done as a shoutout to a fan (or in that case, a fuck you to a fan) but it doesn't actually represent anyone important. It's a footnote at best. (But I give up on Ursa Magnus. That was apparently approved all the way up the chain of command, so nice going, fanfic author.) -hx 08:43, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I feel like you're overcomplicating this. The wiki's "mission" is to document things that appeared in Transformers media, regardless of whether it was just the artist's initative. If that includes stupid fanfic characters like Ursa Magnus or not-Hot Shot, then so be it. I really don't care for the Allspark's insipid original characters either, but my feelings on them are irrelevant if they did appear in official material. —Interrobang 10:02, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- That's different, because someone got paid to come up with those names (and let's be fair, "Dickbot the blender guy" was a working name, at best, that got adopted). Mostly, and I'll be honest about this, it's because a bunch of fanfic characters, official or no, are problematic for me vis a vis the wiki's mission (by which i mean people will see OH LOOK SOME DUDE FROM ALLSPARK'S FAN CHARACTER WAS IN THE BACKGROUND OF A COMIC, I'M GOING TO MAKE ENTRIES ABOUT MY ENTIRE DUMB LITTLE UNIVERSE) I mean "Ursa Magnus" is apparently official, so there's fuck-all to be done about it besides making him an article, but the guys who were drawn in as easter eggs by the artist and not called for in the script? That's like the dead Not Hot Shot in that one IDW book - it was done as a shoutout to a fan (or in that case, a fuck you to a fan) but it doesn't actually represent anyone important. It's a footnote at best. (But I give up on Ursa Magnus. That was apparently approved all the way up the chain of command, so nice going, fanfic author.) -hx 08:43, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- You're in the wrong wiki if you're going to throw a conniption over stupid names. —Interrobang 08:28, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- And Dickbot the blender guy and Lord Imperious Delirious are such great names? If the character has appeared, why shouldn't we have a page for it? --Khajidha 07:50, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- The point is if we have a page for "Ursa Magnus" we are that much closer to having to have a page for a robot named fucking "X-Warlock." Nobody wants that. That is a stupid name. -hx 07:16, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- With Pete's recent statement on the Allspark forums [1], namely "The name was not listed in the script. The character will not be called out in fiction...However, there is no official fiction behind this character. The only thing official about him was he was handing something to Megatron." would seem to lend credence to the conclusion that this dude is just an easter egg - no different than the many others we've had in the past, and that this page really shouldn't exist. --Shellspark 15:46, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- Him being an Easter egg does not preclude him from being a character in official Transformers fiction. Why is there such a drive to find some justification to delete this? If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to make the articles or read them. And, as I've mentioned before, we've had such articles for a long time—Saber, AlbinoBumbleBee, Sentinel Supreme, etc. And plenty of articles for one-panel-only characters—hideous giant brain guy, terrified corpulent lady, Fantasy Predacon. Drawing the line at certain fan characters because we hate them is stupid. —Interrobang 16:09, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- So, I registered here just to say that if you don't think he belongs, then please feel free to take him down. In fact, as his creator/owner, I'd very much like the entry removed if for no other reason than to stop the drama about it. —Ursa Magnus 17:51, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm against removing this page solely because of drama. There are already pages for Saber and Sentinel Supreme and those were just thrown in by the artist, while Ursa was intended in by the entire creative team save the editor. And even though Pete didn't find out till later, he still acknowledged it and specified it was a TransTech native. Just because hx and Shellspark hate it is no reason to take it down. --Detour 18:06, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- So, I registered here just to say that if you don't think he belongs, then please feel free to take him down. In fact, as his creator/owner, I'd very much like the entry removed if for no other reason than to stop the drama about it. —Ursa Magnus 17:51, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- Him being an Easter egg does not preclude him from being a character in official Transformers fiction. Why is there such a drive to find some justification to delete this? If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to make the articles or read them. And, as I've mentioned before, we've had such articles for a long time—Saber, AlbinoBumbleBee, Sentinel Supreme, etc. And plenty of articles for one-panel-only characters—hideous giant brain guy, terrified corpulent lady, Fantasy Predacon. Drawing the line at certain fan characters because we hate them is stupid. —Interrobang 16:09, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- To me, there is a difference between "a character created by an artist that they inserted" and "an artist drawing someone else's fan-character". I am wholly against the cataloging of the latter, as it sets precedents that I would prefer the wiki to not later have to adhere to. --Monzo 18:15, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm with Detour on this one. This character appeared and did something. He's not some random face in a crowd. Make the page, throw a tag on it to indicate the unofficial nature of the name and explain it all in a note. --Khajidha 18:19, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm not sure why you think those precedents need to be avoided, Monzo. —Interrobang 18:33, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- 1. This isn't drama, it's discussion and it's the only way decisions can be made here. 2. This isn't about hatred of a particular fan character either -- I don't know Ursa Magnus from Adam. As I quoted before, this character isn't named, he doesn't do anything of note. The only thing OF note about him is the fact that it's someone's fan-character. At most, it should be a footnote on the comic's page. And for the record, I'm all for deleting the pages for Saber and such as well. Those sorts of things erode the wall between what's official and what's fan-fiction. -- Shellspark 19:57, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- Why are you making us jump through hoops before acknowledging a character in an official comic? "Notability" is not one of our principles with regards to character articles, and we have used many names from outside sources such as creators or scripts (Axe, Firster Aid, Bluster). Why are characters who existed before being used in an official context an exception? Rung is a fanfic character. Should we now delete his article because he "erodes the wall between what's official and what's fan-fiction"? —Interrobang 20:19, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm not sure it's our job to keep the wall between official and fanfiction from eroding if official creators are making it increasingly difficult for us to do so. The wiki should reflect things as they are, not as what we wish them to be. At that point, we're deciding canon ourselves. --ItsWalky 20:22, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- 1. This isn't drama, it's discussion and it's the only way decisions can be made here. 2. This isn't about hatred of a particular fan character either -- I don't know Ursa Magnus from Adam. As I quoted before, this character isn't named, he doesn't do anything of note. The only thing OF note about him is the fact that it's someone's fan-character. At most, it should be a footnote on the comic's page. And for the record, I'm all for deleting the pages for Saber and such as well. Those sorts of things erode the wall between what's official and what's fan-fiction. -- Shellspark 19:57, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm not sure why you think those precedents need to be avoided, Monzo. —Interrobang 18:33, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I'm with Detour on this one. This character appeared and did something. He's not some random face in a crowd. Make the page, throw a tag on it to indicate the unofficial nature of the name and explain it all in a note. --Khajidha 18:19, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- To me, there is a difference between "a character created by an artist that they inserted" and "an artist drawing someone else's fan-character". I am wholly against the cataloging of the latter, as it sets precedents that I would prefer the wiki to not later have to adhere to. --Monzo 18:15, 2 March 2012 (EST)
This page has already been deleted? Is the discussion over then? I think the page should stay. And if it goes, then Saber has to go too, as there's no real difference between "artist inserts his own character" and "writer and artist insert their friend's character". --KilMichaelMcC 22:42, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- Ditto Sentinel Supreme, and a ton of others, then. --Detour 22:48, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I think Monzo deleted it because Ursa Magnus said above he'd like it deleted. --abates 23:01, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- There is no difference between any of these background fan-slurp-fic characters. Saying "the author knew but the editor didn't" or whatever is an inherently self-contradictory bit of pointless intentism. If this one goes, they all must. Honestly I saw no problem with Ursa Magnus or for that matter with X-Warlock. --Thylacine 2000 23:07, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- The criteria for whether or not any given unnamed background/generic/filler/whatever-type character gets an article should absolutely NOT include "was this guy originally someone's fanfic character?" Because, really, what difference does that make? If a writer or artist creates someone new on the spot to fill some tiny role, they get an article, but if he/she plugs in a character that already existed in their fanfic or their friend's, that's disqualifying? What? I don't see the logic, there. --KilMichaelMcC 23:14, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- Also, I don't know what exactly the criteria should be for when such a character warrants an article of their own, either. But, if AlbinoBumbleBee and a jokey "explanation" Furman made on his blog get articles, then it seems the threshold has been set fairly low. --KilMichaelMcC 00:14, 3 March 2012 (EST)
- Considering how we have guys like Christmas Maximus, Ancient Autobot survivor, '70s pimp, Dia Battles Transformer, Bobby Bolivia's mammy, and many others, I think the established criteria is "if somebody feels like making an article on a character of interest". Excluding pre-existing fan-characters from that is silly. —Interrobang 00:25, 3 March 2012 (EST)
- Yeah, I'm not sure why people seem to have such a big problem with this particular character. I'm in favour of bringing the article back from the dead. --abates 01:12, 3 March 2012 (EST)
- Considering how we have guys like Christmas Maximus, Ancient Autobot survivor, '70s pimp, Dia Battles Transformer, Bobby Bolivia's mammy, and many others, I think the established criteria is "if somebody feels like making an article on a character of interest". Excluding pre-existing fan-characters from that is silly. —Interrobang 00:25, 3 March 2012 (EST)
- Also, I don't know what exactly the criteria should be for when such a character warrants an article of their own, either. But, if AlbinoBumbleBee and a jokey "explanation" Furman made on his blog get articles, then it seems the threshold has been set fairly low. --KilMichaelMcC 00:14, 3 March 2012 (EST)
- The criteria for whether or not any given unnamed background/generic/filler/whatever-type character gets an article should absolutely NOT include "was this guy originally someone's fanfic character?" Because, really, what difference does that make? If a writer or artist creates someone new on the spot to fill some tiny role, they get an article, but if he/she plugs in a character that already existed in their fanfic or their friend's, that's disqualifying? What? I don't see the logic, there. --KilMichaelMcC 23:14, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- There is no difference between any of these background fan-slurp-fic characters. Saying "the author knew but the editor didn't" or whatever is an inherently self-contradictory bit of pointless intentism. If this one goes, they all must. Honestly I saw no problem with Ursa Magnus or for that matter with X-Warlock. --Thylacine 2000 23:07, 2 March 2012 (EST)
- I think Monzo deleted it because Ursa Magnus said above he'd like it deleted. --abates 23:01, 2 March 2012 (EST)
I feel like this page was prematurely deleted. --ItsWalky 01:09, 3 March 2012 (EST)
Faction?
[edit]So it's Pete's word that is indeed the Transtech version of Ursa Magnus. So do Transtech bots have the Maximal faction? Or would he be an Autobot then? Havn't read all the Axium fiction... --76.28.76.206 16:37, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- If he's indeed a TransTech, he'd be an Autobot. Cheetor and Rhinox are both Autobots, after all. I don't think there are any TransTech Maximals or Predacons. --ItsWalky 16:39, 1 March 2012 (EST)
- Nothing in the panel he cameos in marks his faction, and that's more or less all that's official regardng him, so I propose we just leave that space blank. --Nemesis Primal (talk) 00:31, 23 May 2014 (EDT)
