Talk:Prowl 2: Difference between revisions

From MediaWiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
← Older edit
undoSabrblade (talk | contribs)
13,831 edits
Derik (talk | contribs)
4,299 edits
No edit summary
Sabrblade (talk | contribs)
13,831 edits
 
(52 intermediate revisions by 19 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
What the fuck, Derik? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
==Jesus, ''another'' Prowl?==
Reading through [[Talk:Prowl II|this]], it's plain that most everyone but Derik is uncomfortable with Prowl 2 being declared one and the same with [[Prowl II]].  However, nobody was saying that Prowl 2 was definitively [[Prowl (RID)|RID Prowl]] either.  Given that the controversy exists at all - and that we have separate [[Mirage (RID)|Spy Changer Mirage]] and [[Mirage GT]] articles - I think it's dishonest of us to lump Prowl 2 in with RID Prowl as though there was any more proof for that assumption.  So that's why I wrote this new article. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:''"However, nobody was saying that Prowl 2 was definitively RID Prowl either."''  Walky was.  I'd give a six triliters of energon to see the look on his face when he gets back from BotCon and sees that [[Prowl 2]] is back . . . [[User:JW|JW]] 03:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::Lord High Dammit the third, I knew there was going to be an insurmountable pile of terrible crap I'd have to go through after I got back, but didn't expect it from JACKPOT.  God dammit.  That's it, I quit the wiki.  --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry dude, but seriously.  Delaring Derik wrong doesn't mean taking the polar opposite side. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::::''I'm'' taking the polar opposite side? You removed all mention of Prowl 2 from RiD Prowl's page.  That IS the polar opposite side.  That is the removing of true information to support a viewpoint.  Toys can belong to two different characters.  --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I didn't realize that in the case of ambiguity, we could spread a single toy out among various potential characters.  In that case, feel free to put it back in, however it's best to state it there. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:There IS circumstantial proof for that assumption, which is that Side Burn and X-Brawn's "Super" redecoes were internally referred to as "Side Burn 2" and "X-Brawn 2" (I don't seem to have any evidence that this was actually the case for Prowl, though I can't imagine it wouldn't be) and that the Spy Changer's deco is a blue/white/blue layout more or less matching the Deluxe redeco's. To me personally it seems ludicrous to think that anyone could have intended this to be anything BUT the same character - in fact, I'd sooner see Mirage GT folded into Mirage's page than have its existence use to support keeping this separated from Prowl's actual page.


:...do you not think Prowl 2 needs an article? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:But that's just me. (And god damn it I just want to be allowed to edit this Talk page!) -[[User:LV|LV]] 03:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't even understand what that was about. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::If this whole argument began and ended with RID, I'd certainly be in favor of rolling it all into RID Prowl's page and giving the controversy a footnote.  But given where the term "Prowl 2" has gone since then, I think we need to acknowledge the ambiguity for what it is, just as we acknowledge lots of other ambiguous characters (such as countless Universe redecoes). - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


::::[http://bwtf.com/binaltech/prowl/booklet.shtml Read, learn.] -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
==Why the deletion?==
:::::Skimming the booklet, it looks like "Prowl 2" ended up as just a new body for Prowl, and is not meaningfully a separate character.  It should probably be handled in Prowl's article.  [[User:JW|JW]] 22:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


::::::Amazingly actually ''reading'' the booklet yields a different result than ''skimming'' it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The latest AVP talks about how Prowl 2 came to exist. No one adds it, so I decide to do it. When it gets added, someone deletes it. Why was that necessary, especially when it gives background to this character that everyone has been curious about? [[User:Crossblades|Crossblades]] 04:45, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Given my apparent lack of reading skills, I would appreciate it if you would give us a summary of your reasons for creating this page.  [[User:JW|JW]] 22:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:Uh...I don't think anyone has? [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 16:52, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::Okay!  Summary follows:
::What are you talking about, Crossblades? I don't see any edits by you to this page except one edit from today. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:55, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::''He's a separate character from Prowl.
:::Ok I see what the problem was. I previewed what I added and didn't save. Silly me :P [[User:Crossblades|Crossblades]] 04:56, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::Summary ends. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Maybe you could see the future? I undid because you just copy/pasted the entry, including a bunch of irrelevant stuff. You need to rewrite in your own words, and change the header text. And fiction should go above the identity section, which should probably be condensed now that it's no longer a mystery and maybe moved to notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 17:02, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Okay, I took the time to read it more thoroughly.  The Prowl described there is A) a copy of Prowl's consciousness, previously stored on a computer, '''plus''' B) a human (Chip Chase) in a symbiotic relationship with him, right?
:::::Well I was in the process of editing till it got removed. But I see what you mean. [[User:Crossblades|Crossblades]] 05:04, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Ergo, it's a lot like Powermaster Optimus Prime as he appeared in the G1 comics, who we don't consider to be a separate character.  Heck, given that we still consider the Prime from Marvel Comics issue 80 to be the same character (a Last Autobot-empowered reincarnation of Prime, based on Hi-Q, based on Powermaster Optimus Prime, who in turn was made from a floppy disc copy of the original Prime), I don't think Prowl 2 warrants a new page.  It's the same guy as Prowl. [[User:JW|JW]] 22:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::That would be a ''completely'' adequate explanation if we didn't have this guy ''and'' the original Prowl running around simultaneously, as different individuals, in two separate places in continuity.
::::::::And also if, you know, we hadn't actually gotten a toy called 'Prowl 2.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, heck, dude, if you'd said that in the first place, instead of being all coy . . . [[User:JW|JW]] 22:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::...Isn't it ''implied'' by creating an article for him?  Guys who aren't separate characters don't get one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::The poop jokes and "I may be high at the moment" summary did not foster faith in your judgment.  I am now reassured.  [[User:JW|JW]] 02:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
[[Beast Wars Sourcebook]] heavily implies that Transmetal 2 Prowl is Binaltech Prowl in a new body, while Prowl from Magnaboss is the original Ark crewman in a new body. Yes, Ben Yee has made this a royal clusterfuck, but it's a ''canonical'' clusterfuck now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 22:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:[[JaAm|WhY mY HEad hURt?]] -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


I know I'm only inviting a headache by asking, but... why is RID Prowl 2 in this? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
== Identity ==


Was Binaltech Prowl actually called "Prowl 2"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 23:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
So is Prowl 2 a separate character, a character who named himself after [[Prowl (G1)]] (similar to the G1 and BW versions of Megatron), a version of [[Prowl (RID)]], or a version of [[Prowl II]]? If he is the ''Car Robots'' version of [[Prowl (RID)]], shouldn't he be merged with that article (just like Wrecker Hook and Tow-Line, Fire Convoy and Optimus Prime, Gigatron and Megatron, etc.)? [[User:Transfan 1992|Transfan 1992]] ([[User talk:Transfan 1992|talk]]) 18:34, 13 November 2015 (EST)
:The Blue one? I believe so. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:Try reading the article? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:36, 13 November 2015 (EST)
::What I mean to ask was, "was the toy was actually sold under the name Prowl 2"? The link to the Binaltech booklet translation Derik provides above says mentions that in the storyline the Binaltech Prowl body was originally developed to be a GT "parallel form" labelled "Prowl 2," but that plan was scrapped and that body became BT Prowl/Chip's main body.  But was the character actually referred to as "Prowl 2" anywhere? Derik mentions above that we've "gotten a toy called Prowl 2"... but I think he may just be referring to the RiD toy, which he seems to think is the same character for some reason. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::I did and I'm kinda confused. [[User:Transfan 1992|Transfan 1992]] ([[User talk:Transfan 1992|talk]]) 01:04, 19 November 2015 (EST)
:::Nah, the toy itself was just called Prowl. I think Prowl 2 came from the BT storyline. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Then read [https://www.facebook.com/AskVectorPrime/posts/722262094572430 this]. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:34, 19 November 2015 (EST)
::::Yeah, I see nothing to indicate that Owl Prowl is the RID guy in Owl Prowl's IDW writeup.  Small miracles.  --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::As a note, Owl Prowl's page should be moved to [[Prowl II]], apparently, as that's how his IDW profile writes his name.  Not with a 2.  --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 
I think Prowl 2 is the same character because he ''is'' the same character. From the BWTF.com translation;
:''At first, the Honda-designed BT-15 model was developed for this project to become the parallel form "Prowl 2," but because Prowl's original body was destroyed before the GT network was activated, it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit.''
Remember, in ''japan'' Rid/CR takes place ''during'' G1.  It's cracked- but RiD Prowl 2 is considered a G1 character in Japan.  They're the same guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Latest revision as of 06:34, 19 November 2015

Jesus, another Prowl?

[edit]

Reading through this, it's plain that most everyone but Derik is uncomfortable with Prowl 2 being declared one and the same with Prowl II. However, nobody was saying that Prowl 2 was definitively RID Prowl either. Given that the controversy exists at all - and that we have separate Spy Changer Mirage and Mirage GT articles - I think it's dishonest of us to lump Prowl 2 in with RID Prowl as though there was any more proof for that assumption. So that's why I wrote this new article. - Jackpot 03:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

"However, nobody was saying that Prowl 2 was definitively RID Prowl either." Walky was. I'd give a six triliters of energon to see the look on his face when he gets back from BotCon and sees that Prowl 2 is back . . . JW 03:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Lord High Dammit the third, I knew there was going to be an insurmountable pile of terrible crap I'd have to go through after I got back, but didn't expect it from JACKPOT. God dammit. That's it, I quit the wiki. --ItsWalky 03:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry dude, but seriously. Delaring Derik wrong doesn't mean taking the polar opposite side. - Jackpot 03:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm taking the polar opposite side? You removed all mention of Prowl 2 from RiD Prowl's page. That IS the polar opposite side. That is the removing of true information to support a viewpoint. Toys can belong to two different characters. --ItsWalky 03:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I didn't realize that in the case of ambiguity, we could spread a single toy out among various potential characters. In that case, feel free to put it back in, however it's best to state it there. - Jackpot 03:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
There IS circumstantial proof for that assumption, which is that Side Burn and X-Brawn's "Super" redecoes were internally referred to as "Side Burn 2" and "X-Brawn 2" (I don't seem to have any evidence that this was actually the case for Prowl, though I can't imagine it wouldn't be) and that the Spy Changer's deco is a blue/white/blue layout more or less matching the Deluxe redeco's. To me personally it seems ludicrous to think that anyone could have intended this to be anything BUT the same character - in fact, I'd sooner see Mirage GT folded into Mirage's page than have its existence use to support keeping this separated from Prowl's actual page.
But that's just me. (And god damn it I just want to be allowed to edit this Talk page!) -LV 03:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
If this whole argument began and ended with RID, I'd certainly be in favor of rolling it all into RID Prowl's page and giving the controversy a footnote. But given where the term "Prowl 2" has gone since then, I think we need to acknowledge the ambiguity for what it is, just as we acknowledge lots of other ambiguous characters (such as countless Universe redecoes). - Jackpot 03:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Why the deletion?

[edit]

The latest AVP talks about how Prowl 2 came to exist. No one adds it, so I decide to do it. When it gets added, someone deletes it. Why was that necessary, especially when it gives background to this character that everyone has been curious about? Crossblades 04:45, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

Uh...I don't think anyone has? Escargon (talk) 16:52, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
What are you talking about, Crossblades? I don't see any edits by you to this page except one edit from today. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 16:55, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
Ok I see what the problem was. I previewed what I added and didn't save. Silly me :P Crossblades 04:56, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
Maybe you could see the future? I undid because you just copy/pasted the entry, including a bunch of irrelevant stuff. You need to rewrite in your own words, and change the header text. And fiction should go above the identity section, which should probably be condensed now that it's no longer a mystery and maybe moved to notes. --Giggidy (talk) 17:02, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
Well I was in the process of editing till it got removed. But I see what you mean. Crossblades 05:04, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

Identity

[edit]

So is Prowl 2 a separate character, a character who named himself after Prowl (G1) (similar to the G1 and BW versions of Megatron), a version of Prowl (RID), or a version of Prowl II? If he is the Car Robots version of Prowl (RID), shouldn't he be merged with that article (just like Wrecker Hook and Tow-Line, Fire Convoy and Optimus Prime, Gigatron and Megatron, etc.)? Transfan 1992 (talk) 18:34, 13 November 2015 (EST)

Try reading the article? Saix (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2015 (EST)
I did and I'm kinda confused. Transfan 1992 (talk) 01:04, 19 November 2015 (EST)
Then read this. --Sabrblade (talk) 01:34, 19 November 2015 (EST)
Retrieved from "https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Prowl_2&oldid=1024888"