Talk:Female Transformer

Strika

There seems to be some vehemence about Strika's status (or not) as a female.

While I agree that there is no 'definitive' evidence that Strika is female, neither is there 'definitive' evidence that most TFs are male, yet we have no difficulty accepting that fact. To dismiss the (in my view) quite reasonable assumption that Strika is female as 'fan-conjecture' ignores a number of common-sense factors:

• The fact that in the cartoon she was voiced by female voice actor - there is no instance I can recall of a female TF character being voiced by a male actor or vice versa.

• That she is referred to as Obsidian's consort (rather than associate) is not insignificant. There is a nuance of meaning in the term that implies that they are not merely associates, but their relationship would be more similar to that of husband and wife, or domestic companions. The primary meaning of consort is the spouse of a monarch, which would sit well with Obsidian's perceived status.

On this basis, I think that it is reasonable to assert that Strika is intended to be a female character until there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. Perhaps she should be included in this listing, with a disclaimer about lack of formal evidence. To do otherwise would smack of legalistic hair-splitting.

...I wasn't aware this was even in doubt. It'd require a fairly baroque misreading of Beast Machines to make Strika a dude. (BWR might change that.) -Derik 04:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I was also unaware. How can she not be a girl? Her tech spec calls her a girl. --ItsWalky 04:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to third this "what the hell?". --M Sipher 04:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

...what do you mean fan-conjecture? He identifies her as his consort. -Derik 06:06, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consort

Of the SIX DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS, several of which are military in nature, only ONE is romantic. And again, there is absolutely fuck-all outside of one word with multiple accurate non-romatic applications to suggest any form of romance between the two. --M Sipher 06:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Really? Huh, I didn't think any of the other definitions actually fit...

1. a husband or wife; spouse, esp. of a reigning monarch. Compare PRINCE CONSORT , QUEEN CONSORT.

2. one ship accompanying another.

3. a. a group of instrumentalists and singers who perform music, esp. old music. b. a group of instruments of the same family, as viols, played in concert.

4. a companion, associate, or partner.

5. accord or agreement.

That leaves us #1 or #4... on reflection, the way Obsidian says it really does fit #4 better. *checks TF ultimate guide* Huh, there it calls her his cohort, which again seems to support Obsidian meant she was his partner, not sexytime toy.

Perhaps there should be a note on the Strika page? -Derik 07:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Er... perhaps there should be a Strika page? -Derik 07:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I think I follow something of the "WTF?" I have created - the conjecture is not about Strika's status as a female, but about the nature of the relationship with Obsidian implied from this. Apologies for this misreading.

Having said this, some fundamental points remain - yes, there are 6 definitions of consort, but these are not equal or interchangeable - the most common or accepted usage of the term is almost always the one defined first.

If the creators of Beast Machines had intended a more neutral relationship like associate, partner or companion, they could easily have used those words, and thus have prevented this current debate. However, the fact that they chose to use the word consort does make certain implications far more reasonable. There have been few (if any) female TFs introduced who did not have some manner of romantic or intimate entanglement. Since there is little doubt of Strika's gender, it is reasonable on this basis to assert that Obsidian and Strika were in an interdependent relationship similar to a marriage. Whether this included physical intimacy is neither here nor there, since many marriages can be founded on mutual attachment without intimacy. We can debate the nature of romance until the cows come home, though this wiki is probably not the best forum for this.

So, relationship or not? --Sofaman 12:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

It's been awhile since I watched BM... (I hope to get the DVD set for Christmas) but did Obsidian ever show any affection for Strika? Any sign or romantic involvement aside from calling her his consort? -Derik 13:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Not really. --ItsWalky 15:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

"femme"

Wasn't this term used already officially? (I remember being irate about something a few weeks back...) -Derik 10:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It sounds better than "fembot" at any rate. That term evokes images of Futurama. - Nightshade83

Austin Powers comes to mind first, actually. Images of Futurama would be awesome. --ItsWalky 06:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to double-check my Transformers: Decepticons DS game, but I think Barricade uses the term "fembot" as an insult to Create-a-Bot at one point. If so, "fembot" has been used in an official capacity, unfortuately. I still think "femme" without the bot suffix sounds a lot better. -- Nightshade83

Fembot's certainly been used officially. Rattrap said it in "Nemesis," and Downshift's Cyber Key bio mentioned his "femmebot lifebond partner." I know of no uses of "femme" on it's own in canon. --KilMichaelMcC 07:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Really, the Austin Powers fembots are a pop culture reference to the Bionic Woman fembots. Right down to the faceplates falling off.--Rosicrucian^Talk 07:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

origin of the term

OK let's explain that. The way the female transformers are called "femme" is really a reference to the french language in a pun way. You see, "dude" can be translated in French by "mec", which is a slang for "homme" (the french word for "man"). Also, "mec" sound a lot like "mech" (which, but you all know that, is a slang term that refer to battle robots). And there you have it: English word "mech", (which sound like the french word "mec" which means "man" or rather "dude") refers to male robot while the French word "femme" also (used sometimes in English, as in "femme fatale") is used to refer to female transformers, in opposition to mech->mec(French word)->dude->male transformers. So, the fandom term "femme" does effectively come from a bilingual English-French pun (Mech<->Mec). --81.242.224.75 15:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem is, we really need two cites there. First, we need a cite proving that fans do in fact use "mech" and "femme" in fanfic to refer to male and female Transformers. Then, we need a cite saying that they explictly got this from the French words "femme" and "mec", and not, say, from Ratrap referring to Blackarachnia as an "emasculatin' fembot", from the Futurama "fembots", from the Austin Powers "fembots", or from the Bionic Woman "fembots".

So, if you can provide a link to some proof of either of those things, we'd be delighted to have it. JW 15:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

well for your second point, the term in discussion is "femme" not "fembot", no need to melt the two everybody know the term "femme fatal". As for your first point, while I have meet the term several time in different fiction, it is not that often used, so Icouldn't really provide the origin personally. Also, please not that I didn't povide the femme<->mech explanation, I just read it and only further explain the logical link between those two words. Ho and sorry to have missed the footnote, didn't have noticed it. --81.242.224.75 15:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't care enough about this to DO IT, but might I suggest that someone who wanted to try and make that case go through the records of the old Alt.transformers.fanfic usenet group from the early days of the fandom and try and track down the earliest uses of the terms in this way, and then see if any of those writers could still be found in the much larger and more disparate fandom of today so they might be asked where they got it from. Who knows if it'd work, but I think it's your only shot at "proof".

I don't know about the French Connection, but if you look here, at Transformers/Beast Wars section, you'll find LOTS of stories that use the terms "Mech" and "Femme". I especially recommend "Sparks and Plasma", "What Time We Have Left" and "Night Fire" as examples of stories that deal with male/female TF relationships in a tastefully and well-written way. --Nightshade83 15:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

One other thing tough. The online translator may be wrong. I have never ever herd the word "mec" used to refer to "pimp". There may be a confusion with "mac" who can basically be translated by "mack". But for "mec" the most accurate translation is "dude" never seen it used for "pimp". --81.242.224.75 16:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Please use the Preview button so that you can make your comments using one edit instead of three.

This says mec = pimp.

Point 14 here says the same.

"He was a pimp, or in the French slang, a 'mec.'"

Also see the classic movie Irma La Douce, in which Jack Lemmon ends up as Shirley MacLaine's mec.

JW 16:22, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, I found it too, it seems that the word effectively refer to pimp but in a more positive way (it actually can be translated as "official" lover of the prostitute). But nowadays, it is almost never used in that way and is only used for "dude". [1]--81.242.224.75 16:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

No offense, but I don't know if it's within the scope of the wiki to delve this deeply into fanfiction culture.--Rosicrucian^Talk 16:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Or French culture, for that matter.

Anyway, I really don't think the current section of the page devoted to this should get any larger, but I think the brief mention we have is okay.

Plus, the "mech = pimp" bit amuses me. (Corollary: I'm easy to amuse.) JW 16:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

As I have said before,I didn't put the fandom part, I just mentioned the French origin of the term.--81.242.224.75 16:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Decepticon Females

Should we have a section in here about the relative scarcity of unqualified female Decepticons in high-profile franchises? ("Unqualified" in the sense of "not former Autobots gone bad".) JW 14:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea, considering there's only 3 I can think of in North American releases -- Strika in Beast Machines, Flamewar in the Timelines comics (though those were BotCon exclusives so probably don't count) and Thunderblast in Cybertron. We need more bad girls that have always been bad, and will stay that way. I like the idea of SPOILERS Blackarachnia in Animated being Elita One, but I would still like to see more pure Decepticon femmes as well. A movieverse Decepticon femme would be cool too.

Hell, I'm just happy that Hasbro's finally realizing that girls [2] play with Transformers too. --Nightshade83 22:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, Strika wasn't a Decepticon, and she (like Obsidian) might have been an Autobot before becoming a Vehicon. JW 22:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Strika's faction, and indeed her role in Cybertron's history, are maddeningly vague.--Rosicrucian^Talk 22:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so that makes just one female Decepticon who has stayed a Decepticon EVER in any cartoon, and she's ...well, Thunderblast. *Sigh*. At least I can pretend my Arcee black repaint is Flamewar. --Nightshade83 22:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit revoke

Why? CKY 06:37, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Can't answer that question quite as I don't watch TFA, but I've removed that pairing from the list some time ago when behind it came "but it's unclear if their relation is of a romantic level", or something like that. I would guess by that and the reversion that it's currently unclear if they are romantically involved or just friends. Geewunling 07:27, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

"In fiction" articles

I was kind of wondering, this is one of the few articles not really written "in fiction". Large parts of it are "behind the scenes" kind of thing which are usually reserved to the Notes section. "Originally Simon Furman stated that he would not use female Transformers in IDW..." "Arcee was originally going to be featured as part of the cast of the Transformers film, but was cut..."

Are there some articles, like this one, where this is OK? - Starfield 09:32, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

I've been wanting to rewrite this article for ages for stuff like this, but well, I suck at writing. As far as I can see, this article has no justification to be an exception to the standards. I'd strongly prefer to see it become look more like a regular "trait"-article (like Mini-Cassette and Triple Changer). Geewunling 11:35, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

I think this article is just fine the way it is, and an "in-universe" rewrite wouldn't improve it in any way. --KilMichaelMcC 16:00, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

We do have some out-of-universe articles because they tend to work better that way, such as Spark. --ItsWalky 16:30, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Suggestion for addition to the romances list

I propose Override - Hot Shot. ZeldaTheSwordsman 12:47, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Despite my jokes to the contrary, I really don't think so. There wasn't any romance between them at all, just notions of competition. --ItsWalky 12:53, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

There's a lot of fan art out there that would show this but since Override was originally male I don't think there would be an intentional relationship between the two. Still I do like this idea.--Ninjabot33 16:58, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Key word. Fan User:Eire 22.15 Nov 25 09 (UTC)

Yeah I guess. My ideas ar often influenced by watching too many tribute or couples videos on youtube. My one suggestion is Arcee - Ratchet but I'm not sure that really had enough in the fiction other than him worrying about her safety. Also if Mega counts as a female transformer then her and Giga. --Ninjabot33 17:18, 25 November 2009 (EST)

We're kind of going for romances that have actually been stated as such or at least strongly hinted at in the fiction. Because trust me, many of the popular "fan ships" have pretty much zero fictional support. --Jeysie 17:26, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Go read Robot-fleshling romance not too many aren't just slightly hinted at or are just fan ships. --Ninjabot33 17:43, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Er... those are all pretty obvious and/or the subject of in-fiction innuendo, actually. --Jeysie 17:57, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Sorry to say this but I don't understand what you just said. I'm not sure anything was really hinted at between Snowstalker and Tigatron at least and still not all of them could be considered as official ones. But lets get back on the matter at hand now OK? I don't feel like arguing too much about what relationships are really hinted at or not. --Ninjabot33 18:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Um. That is the matter at hand. We only include romances with strong in-fiction support/hints on both lists. Ratchet, for instance, doesn't show any potentially romantic feelings towards Arcee other than caring about and being protective of her, and by that criterion you have even more evidence for him and Omega Supreme than you do he and her. --Jeysie 18:19, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Didn't I just say I didn't want to argue about it anymore? Just leave it! When I said about Ratchet and Arcee I just thought they seemed a lot like a likely pair but if you don't want that on the list fine. Can we just stop this now? I'm getting tired. --Ninjabot33 18:28, 25 November 2009 (EST)

I was discussing the matter at hand that you brought up. If you didn't want to discuss that, then you shouldn't have brought it up. Just sayin'. --Jeysie 18:57, 25 November 2009 (EST)

When I said "matter at hand" I was reffering to Fembots instead of Robot-fleshling romance. OK? Also you were bugging me about how it didn't have actual evidence in the fiction which is what I already said. --Ninjabot33 10:21, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Like I said, the same criteria applies to both lists, fembot-mech romances as well as human-TF ones. You made some suggestions, I pointed out why they didn't quite fit. That's the point of Talk pages (one of them anyway): you make a suggestion for the article and see if other folks agree. Don't get so upset if people don't. --Jeysie 10:35, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Fine but you could have just said there isn't enough fictional evidence and had it over with but instead you made it sound kind of insulting. Can we talk about something else now? I don't think there's enough room left to discuss this any further.--Ninjabot33 10:41, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Gallery

Is it just me, or would the gallery of toys work better on the List of female Transformers page? Khajidha 16:48, 9 December 2009 (EST)

At the very least, it should be on its own page, or, alternatively, a category, so there isn't 800kb of images on there. --abates 17:22, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Maybe a subpage/suite-type thing? Khajidha 17:24, 9 December 2009 (EST)

To be honest, I don't see why we need it at all. We already have a list of female characters which links to all of their articles which have toy pictures at the bottom. Why the need to see them all in one place? --abates 17:41, 9 December 2009 (EST)

I actually agree, but wasn't sure if others did. I brought it up because (if it really needs to be kept) this doesn't seem like the proper place to keep it. Your suggestion of a category is looking better and better. Anyone else want to weigh in? Khajidha 17:44, 9 December 2009 (EST)

...I could note that we already have a Female Transformer toy images category... --Jeysie 17:56, 9 December 2009 (EST)