Talk:Ulchtar
Which continuity would Aurex 602.0 Kappa be? Closest match I could find was Aurex 603.0 Kappa, the Energon Within online game. --Detour 15:30, 10 August 2011 (EDT)
- Typo, sorry! —Interrobang 15:36, 10 August 2011 (EDT)
Origin
Looking at the Energon Within page, I'd say Ulchtar here appears to be one of the generic jets, thus his distinct resemblance to Armada Starscream despite appearing in an Armada continuity.Pirateblue (talk) 09:51, 8 June 2014 (EDT)
Merge?
Based on Spacewarp's description, it sounds like Ulchtar basically is Armada Starscream, just with a different name. Should we merge? --Giggidy (talk) 16:17, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- I say leave it as is due to the fact that he's known under a different name and his involvement with the Combatibots --Crossblades (talk) 16:29, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- Yeah, he's pretty clearly a counterpart to Starscream. I say merge. Also, I don't remember that picture showing up in the Almanac - it doesn't seem to be in my Complete Almanac, at any rate. It should probably be deleted if it isn't in there. --Riptide (talk) 17:25, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- This is almost certainly the case. As for the picture itself, it comes from the Alt2day website, so it's not canon. Escargon (talk) 20:32, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- So then it's not a valid picture? The picture's page says it comes from the DeviantArt page of Bill Forster, one of the Almanac's authors. And we use authors' online pictures for characters such as Proxima, Roadmaster, and the DJD. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 20:51, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- I've always been a little wary of using model sheets, etc since they aren't officially published material, but it's probably fine since they're official designs. This, though, is basically fan art; it hasn't been used in anything official. --Riptide (talk) 08:12, 29 November 2015 (EST)
- 47 has a good point about the eligibility of the picture. --Giggidy (talk) 21:48, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- So then it's not a valid picture? The picture's page says it comes from the DeviantArt page of Bill Forster, one of the Almanac's authors. And we use authors' online pictures for characters such as Proxima, Roadmaster, and the DJD. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 20:51, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- This is almost certainly the case. As for the picture itself, it comes from the Alt2day website, so it's not canon. Escargon (talk) 20:32, 28 November 2015 (EST)
- Yeah, he's pretty clearly a counterpart to Starscream. I say merge. Also, I don't remember that picture showing up in the Almanac - it doesn't seem to be in my Complete Almanac, at any rate. It should probably be deleted if it isn't in there. --Riptide (talk) 17:25, 28 November 2015 (EST)
you guys why --ItsWalky (talk) 01:55, 29 November 2015 (EST)
I don't understand the suggestion. Should we merge this page with what? UT Starscream's page? When this isn't a UT character? Animated Starscream, when he's a different guy? Am I missing something? --KilMichaelMcC (talk) 02:05, 29 November 2015 (EST)
- Ulchtar is explicitly from Aurex. What they're proposing is merging this with UT Starscream. Saix (talk) 03:31, 29 November 2015 (EST)
- Okay, that's what I missed then. I thought a character from the Almanac with an Animated-style picture was supposed to be from Animated, that he was the Animated version of Armada Starscream, with a different name to distinguish him from the main Animated Screamer. Anyway. Merge? No. Why. Pointless. --KilMichaelMcC (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2015 (EST)
- I wouldn't say I'm proposing it. It was just clear to me that Ulchtar is being used as a variant name for Starscream, sort of like Jazz/Meister, or Bluestreak/Silverstreak. I was attempting to grapple with the implications of that. --Giggidy (talk) 09:24, 29 November 2015 (EST)
I change my mind. While I acknowledge that Ulchtars are basically UT Starscreams with a different name, I think his name is cool enough to keep at his own page. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 22:19, 29 November 2015 (EST)
Ulchtar comes from the Energon Within online game continuity. Starscream appears in the flash comic strip introduction and epilogue to Energon Within. Ergo, Ulchtar is not Starscream. Theoretically, Ulchtar is probably one of the endless waves of Starscream-colored generics attacking the energon mine for the Decepticons, until he got wise to the suicide mission and hopped realities, as one does. --Xaaron (talk) 07:33, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- Well, no. Someone who looks just like Starscream and Ulchtar appears in the game, but is never identified by name. [1] --Giggidy (talk) 08:14, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- Megatron, Hot Shot, and Optimus Prime are all identified by name, so it's not a reality where recognizable characters are given different names en masse. If you wish to be obnoxiously technical about this, the Seeker-type who appears in Energon Within looks like Armada Starscream. Officially, technically, we have no idea what Ulchtar looks like, since he has never received a canonically approved visual representation. Ergo, there is no canonical evidence the Seeker is anyone other than who he appears to be, Starscream, and there certainly wasn't any author intent at the time of the game's creation to indicate he was supposed to be Ulchtar. Unofficially, if we were to recognize the unapproved DeviantArt image of Ulchtar as an accurate representation of said character then still, technically, he does not look like the character from Energon Within -- he looks like a modified version of Animated Starscream, not identical to Armada Starscream like the Energon Within Seeker. In Transformers in general and with Seekers in particular, a different name and slightly different colors/body-type is enough to make a separate character. A Rose by any other name is still a Rose; A Seeker by any other name is a different Seeker. Furthermore, precedent exists for nigh-identical characters to exist in the same reality, differentiated only by foreign or preliminary names, such as Ego or Morsa. This is further relevant for the Energon Within micro-continuity, which explicitly contains literally countless Decepticons of similar body-type to Starscream, per the game's mechanics.
- Now. Stop. Talking. --Xaaron (talk) 09:08, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- Actually, Vector Prime describes Ulchtar as a "Starscream analog". That's at least some evidence that they might well look alike. And there's nothing really different about the Forster design that can't be chalked up to style.
- Now. Stop. Talking. --Giggidy (talk) 09:26, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- Exactly -- "Some" evidence that they "might" look alike. Your own phrasing of your own argument is vague and non-committal. You're not even 100% convinced of this idea, yet you're wasting the time and energy of multiple contributors with this absolutely pointless discussion.
- Before you say anything more, please, please, please stop to ask two questions first. One, would moving Ulchtar to Starscream (Armada) benefit anyone on the Wiki, from the casual visitor to the dedicated contributor? Second, does having Ulchtar and Starscream (Armada) on separate pages hurt the comprehension or enjoyment of the Wiki by anyone? If the answer to either of those questions is "Yes", tell me how and I will listen. If the answer to both questions is "No", however, then what are we even doing here?!?!
- I like Ask Vector Prime. I enjoy naming the nameless, identifying the unidentified, and formalizing connections that were in most people's head-canon already anyway. But it's all in the name of streamlining information and making it easier to understand, or access. What you're doing is trying to move things just for the sake of moving them.
- Be helpful; don't just be busy. --Xaaron (talk) 10:37, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- OK, very well said. Specifically, the two enumerated questions you pose. I agree that it's probably best to keep them separate. I'm also convinced, based on the Almanac, Ask Vector Prime, and Spacewarp's Log, that the character that showed up in Energon Within was retconned to be "Ulchtar", a guy who looks exactly like Starscream and shares his history, not unlike the distinction (or lack thereof) between Convoy/Optimus Prime or Octane/Tankor. But, based on the arguments you've outlined, I think that it's still worth keeping them apart, one of those cases where we make an exception due to readability rather than blindly follow our own self-imposed rules. The main reason I argued with you that last time was that you tweaked me the wrong way with your rudeness. --Giggidy (talk) 11:10, 30 November 2015 (EST)
wow, how the hell did this of all pages become a massive argument --Riptide (talk) 09:49, 30 November 2015 (EST)
- Excuse me while I add more fuel to the fire, but since Ulchtar is based on UT Starscream, does he count as a repurpose? Crossblades (talk 13:39, 30 November 2015 (EST)
Toys
Could someone explain to me why its a problem for me to add a link here that leads directly to UT Starscream toys section, especially when Ulchtar is clearly based on UT Starscream? Crossblades (talk) 20:41, 29 November 2015 (EST)
