Talk:Insignia

There's such an AWESOME buried assumption in a section called 'Known Faction Symbols.' This whole idea that there are UNKNOWN faction symbols too. The idea that there is a BODY to this story beyond what's been written, the idea that it has a form BEFORE it's written... is facinating. -Derik 15:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel the Transtech faction symbols belong here. The line never happened. The events after BM have been well established- Transtech was not it. TFU stupidity aside- they are not all Autobots and Decepticons now.

And I have to ask- there was an Arachnoid faction-symbol?

Yea there was a screencap in Lone Maximal's faction symble thread b4 the allspark went down. X-BoB58 15:27, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

I think it's fine to include them, just with an info note that they're unused.

Speaking of rare symbols I really want the 5 Predacon symbols from IDW Beast Wars to be up here too, but should they go under BW PRedacon or be their own thing?

Also there should be pics of both the regular Con symbol and the three-pointed Cartoon version.

Oh and we should look through DW/IDW art to see if there are any other unnamed symbols there on buildings or anything. ZacWilliam 22:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Do we want to include pics of the diffrent variations of the faction cymbols that appeared on the toy packageing? I have the symbols from the top of the old Tech Spec archive saved on my PC and found images for the Blendtron and Commando symbols. I don't have the Cybertron symbols though.--FortMax 23:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like both, frankly. My source for the G2 Autobot is distressingly low-resolution (I consider anythign under 400px wide low reolution) and I'm not entiely sure my blendtron synbol is 100% right. (there 1 or two edges I couldnt' tell if they were suppsoed to be rounded or squared off.)-Derik 01:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The G2 Decepticon symbol looks nothing whatsoever like Clench besides sharing that diamond-shaped forehead crest, and it's missing arguably the most distinguishing feature of Clench's face - the triangular (point-up) mouthplate. In my opinion, the G2 symbol is clearly a stylized version of the G1 Decepticon symbol. Similarly, there is essentially no similarity between the G2 Autobot symbol and Pyro - the G2 Autobot symbol couldn't much more clearly be Optimus Prime.

Also, why is the CR Combatron insignia under "Beast Era"? `LV 17:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd need to go back to my G2 issues to check, but I question the validity of suggesting that the G2 Decepticon and Cybertronian symbols are any different. (The only distinction shown here is color, anyway) I also question the simplified versions of the symbols used in the cartoon as "symbols" in their own right, but it seems that I've already been outvoted on that count. The only thing I would ask for is some source text, especially for the more obscure symbols. If they're going to be here, we need to know where they come from.--G.B. Blackrock 18:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I totally disagree with the note that the G1 Decepticon symbol is based on Soundwave. This is a myth that has perpetuated for years, but has no basis in fact.--G.B. Blackrock 18:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, technically, it's based on the Decepticon symbol looking just like Soundwave's toy head. But the note is gone for the moment. --ItsWalky 20:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Walky, I know you've got a good eye. Maybe you're seeing something I don't. But that's just it. To me, Soundwave's toy's head looks NOTHING like the Decepticon symbol. I've seen folks say this for years, but I'm just not seeing it....--G.B. Blackrock 22:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/itswalky/soundwavedecepticonsymbol.jpg

There's some obvious correlation here. But nothing I can say with absolute certainty, so the note is down until further notice. But, damn, the Decepticon symbol does look like it was based on an abstraction of Soundwave's noggin. The crest, the horns, the shape of the face, everything. I think Soundwave's cartoon face is distracting you. --ItsWalky 23:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm thinking toy-face. (Thanks for the side-by-side, incidentally). Still, I don't think I'd say the Decepticon symbol is "based on" Soundwave, any more than I'd say that there's a generic similarity of shape. But we're mincing minutia at this point. Thanks for indulging me.--G.B. Blackrock 23:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe Floro Dery mentioned in an interview that the faction symbols were based on abstractions of faces done by another artist. I also put it to you that the Autobot insignia is probably an abstraction of Prowl's toy face. Unfortunately we have no CONCRETE evidence for the sources of the insignias -- other than Dery's comments. --Jhiaxus 11:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no "Seacon space pirate" sigil. A comical skull-and-crossbones on the sail does not a sigil make. The toy packaging gives them the same purple insect-head Predacon sigil every other badguy in the series gets. --M Sipher 20:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, someoen put the Blendtron symbol under Unicron in G1. When was the Blendtron symbol used outside of Neo? -Derik 02:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

E-hobby Overcharge X-BoB58 02:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

But didn't we decide to default to the line of origin unless there was a commanding reason to use another? Also, we tend not to link things multiple times in the same article, so I see no reason why the Blendtron symbol should show up twice here. Methinks someone's been more than a tad overzealous....--G.B. Blackrock 13:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Article title

I recently moved this article to correct the second capitalized word. However, I am unsure as to whether to move it again and remove the plural. Most article names are singular, even for something like Constructicon. However, one of the points of this article is to describe and show many faction symbols. This sort of implies a plural title to me. So... I'm conflicted. Does anybody have an opinion? --Steve-o 22:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that if this were an article describing the general signifigance of a faction symbol, that might be appropriate. But this is a list of Faction Symbols. The list is inherenly plural, there's like 30 of 'em. 'Faction Symbol,' describing the role and importance of saction symbols in general might be a seperate article- this is a list. -Derik 00:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The 5 Predacon symbols

I want to add the 5 symbols from IDW Beast Wars, but I have a concern. There is no cannonical evidence that they are actually faction symbols. We never see anyone useing them. Right now, the only thing we know about them is that they were used as wall decoration.

Or do we just assume they are faction symbols? --Crockalley 15:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Add them. If we decide they go somewhere else (and I think they probably do, likely the Predacon faction page, or maybe the Predacon sub-group, I dunno...) we'll move them.

Reminder, you can find the rest of... uh.... Ramhorn's partially obscurred symbol in the pencil-sketch previews to Beast Wars #1 that appeared in Infiltration. -Derik 19:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Headstrong. Ramhorn is the Autobot rhino cassette. --KilMichaelMcC 19:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The exception that prooves the rule. -Derik 20:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

....what? --KilMichaelMcC 01:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Miscellaneous issues

Robots in Diguise Commando

When was that term used? What's the difference between a RiD Commando and a RiD Decepticon?

I'm assuing this is a placeholder spot for the Car Robots Destronger symbol, which was a green, upside-down G2 Autobot sigil. - Chris McFeely 10:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Bot/Con Symbols in RiD/UT sections?

Should the Autobot and Decepticon (and Predacon in RiD) symbols also be listed in the Robots in Disguise amd Unicron Trilogy sections? It might be misleading if only unique symbols are listed in those sections. "Are Minicons and Powerlinx the only factions in the Unicron Trilogy?"

Organization

The G1 section seems to be vaguely organized chronologically, but Beast Wars doesn't make sense to me. Since certain chronological listings might be debatable (Ancient Autobot and Ancient Transformer: who comes first, etc), I propose to make each section alphabetical.
Generation 1
Autobot
Autobot (Ancient)
Autobot (The War Within)
Decepticon
etc.

Also, why does G2 get a seperate sction, but Beast Machines does not?

Factions?

There is no basis for calling the five IDW Beast Wars symbols "factions", and the Energon Powerlinx symbols are not factions. But I want to keep a page with all these symbols. Rename article to just "Symbols"? Or maybe that would open it up too much. Just a rambling thought.

Don't want to make any changes without talking about it. Thanks for listening. --Crockalley 01:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC) --Crockalley 01:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fine titled "faction symbols" but also inlcuding symbols that aren't strictly of "factions," with appropriate notations about whether a symbol is a variant of a faction symbol or just something faction symbol-esque that's close enough for inclusion, etc. --KilMichaelMcC 01:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

They might move if we get enough other signage and symbols. (We have, for instance, two seperate Cybertronian medical symbols, one Autobot and one Decepticon.)

You mgith argue that if we have a page liek thism we maybe should have a much-clearer 'factions' page that, as Crockcrikey suggests, list which factions appear in which series, makign this page just abouth the SYMBOLS. As it's it's kinda dual-purpose, providing quick bio's about the faction in addition to the symbols and variants themselves. -Derik 01:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

In that case, where should things like, say, Sideways's split-down-the-middle insignia from his packaging and the Maximal/Vehicon blend found on the Beast Changer toy go, if anywhere at all? On the other hand, if it stays here and keeps gathering up symbols that aren't strictly "faction" symbols, somebody ought to add the planet symbols from Cybertron/Galaxy force--Nemesis Primal 22:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Um, guys, you forgot something...

Not to be a nudge, but the normal G1 Decepticon symbol isn't actually pictured in the article anywhere except in the pic that has it inserted in the cobra insignia. Also, a pic of the "three-pointed" cartoon version might help in showing exactly where the difference lies. --Nemesis Primal 22:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Anyone going to throw in Dreamwave's alternate Unicron faction symbol? I remember it being used for the MTMTE profiles for Nemesis Prime and maybe Sideways, although I don't have it on hand. I feel that it's required.--MCRG 07:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Team Ironhide

Dunno if we want to include this, since it's just an abstraction of Energon Ironhide's head, but there's a good shot of it here. Plus, here and here. --Monzo 11:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Planet symbols...

I'm... not really sure about these as "faction symbols". I dunno. --M Sipher 15:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

See the discussion above ("Factions?") for more input on the inclusion of non-faction symbols. --Crockalley 16:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the consensus was- "Wait until we have anough non-faction symbols here to justify splittign them off into their own page." We're getting close, but that'll necessitate a long, unpleasant discussion about what is and isn't a faction symbol. (For instance, I think the IDW Quint symbol is the US Quint faction symbol- just like we have American and Japanese Unicron-allied symbols.) -Derik 17:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

IDW Quint symbol? I hope you don't mind me asking where that's shown, out of curiousity. -Tindalos 19:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm...

...probably just my imagination. --Andrusi 16:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

G1 "Cartoon" vs "Comic" symbols

OK, time for an opinion poll: Should there be pix of both the "Cartoon" and "Comic" versions of the G1 Bot & Con symbols? I would say so, and several of you expressed the same opinion in the above discussions. Earlier today I added the cartoon Bot symbol and the comic Con symbol thereby completing the "pairs", but not soon after, the comic versions were removed. I have since replaced them, not to rebuff that editor, but based on the reasoning that if we can have five different colored Powerlinx symbols (?!), why would we not have both distinct variations of the two main symbols. Thoughts, anyone? Evil-yuusha 03:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

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